NextPod Soccer Podcast for September 20

James and Duane are joined by Canada Soccer's Mike Vitulano to talk about the Canadian men's u15 program, development in Canada and how the CSA identifies talent. We even ask the big question: are we too reliant on the three MLS academies?

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Welcome to Next Pod, your weeklylook at North American soccer prospects and US
next bro campl and beyond. Theseare your home Dwayne Roland and James Grassy

(00:26):
and welcome to Next Pod. I'mDwayne Roland's joining me on the line as
always is my friend, my colleague, the world's leading expert on development in
Canadian soccer. That's James Garci.How you James Jameson? Oh big dude
man granting me up right off thebeginning here. I am far from an
expert, but I will take everycompliment that comes my way. I'm doing
wonderful Champions League Alaster Johnson making hisdebut, I believed for Celtic and then

(00:52):
you wait for competition. So anotherbusy little spell for Kayne and Sappering.
I'm glad to be here to recapa little. Yeah, the European season
kind of often feels like it reallygets going when you play those first Champions
League games, and it's nice tosee some Canadian content in there. My
season is really kicking off after thelast month or so. I've been training

(01:14):
for the last seven months or so, but really intensely for the last month
or so. I was training forone hundred mile bicycle race, which I
did in the weekend, so Iwasn't necessarily as glued into the landscape has
always, but James has got mecovered. He's been following all the news.
We're gonna go through a bit ofa news roundup site quickly for those
that care, which is probably abouttwo of you. I finished thirty sixth
place out of one hundred and fortythree riders, so that's okay. I

(01:38):
think I wrote my bicycle one hundredmiles. It's pretty challenging, I'll say
that anyway, James, we're gonnatalk about a few things. Let's let's
start with the Under seventeen World Cupdraw. They got a nice little love
marquee drawn there. I think theygot Spain, and Spain is a pretty
good at that the soccer thing,don't you think. Yeah, it's uh,

(02:00):
it's gonna be a fascinating little littlechallenge for Canada, you know,
going and going to this U seventeenWorld Cup. They clinched their birth,
of course, back in February andGuatemala with at the twenty twenty three colt
from seventeen Championships and that tournament inIndonesia is coming up pretty quick November ten
to December second, so you know, between between that marquee match against the

(02:24):
Spanish, who as you say,are pretty good at this football thing,
and also in the group with Maliand Uzbekistan, it should be a fascinating
chance for the Canadian U seventeenth toget out on that world stage and see
what they can do, but alsobrought in their horizons by playing against some
of the best young players in theirage group. So I'm pretty excited about

(02:46):
that. So we had that drawlast week, I believe it was last
Friday we found that out, andthen this week we were treated to the
surprise announcement that Canada would be headingdown to Brazil for for a pair of
games against the Brazil as they warmup for the World Cup. As I
mentioned, starting in November, AndrewOliviery and that's the twenty one man squad

(03:07):
for that two match series against Brazil. Those matches are scheduled for Friday,
September twenty nine and Sunday October one. Olivierry, who's the men's national Youth
Excel Director to give him his propertitle, called it the kind of tests
that can serve as a foundation forthe World Cup and a big opportunity can
play against Brazil in Brazil. Youknow, Brazil are both Common Bowl champions

(03:29):
and the defending FIFA U seventeen WorldCup champions, So pretty exciting to get
for the Canadian U seventeen team tohave that challenge as they ramp up for
the big show in Indonesia. Andyou know, looking over the twenty one
man squad that he announced, alot of the names were are the ones
that we talked about back in Februaryas this competition was going on. You

(03:51):
know, Lazarre Stefanovic and Theore Goldlessof TFC two we're back in there.
Camier O Maze and Richard Chuku ofthe TFC academy are in there as well.
Alessandro Biello, a last name thatshould be very familiar to Canadian soccer
fans, and Gayella de Montigni fromCF Montreal's academy are there, as our
g Van Badwell and Kyler Boyaditch whosename I still have not gotten right in

(04:15):
the intervening seven months from Vancouver arein there as well. There there were
six new players outed to the listand eight guys who aren't a part of
it. You know, this isa this is not the actual squad for
the World Cup, so there's stilla lot of them to go and it
was a good chance for all ofYellow to bring in some new guys and
get a look at them up close. And those six names include two guys
from the Canadian Premier League and theone from League One Ontario TJ to Heid,

(04:39):
the sixteen year old at Vancouver FCand Cavonta Vernier who's been making his
mark with Forge this season. I'vebeen added to the squad. It so
has Alan Side, Blue guy ofSimcoe County Rovers. So a little bit
fascinating to see how those guys fairin this kind of environment, a bit
of a step up. And acouple of TFC academy guys got the calls

(05:00):
as well as in addition, ayoung man in Leno Aklil who's playing at
Montpellier in France. So you know, a lot of the lot of the
names that were left out, we'regenerally European girls, and I think with
this falling outside of international whendows andstuff like that, it might have been
a little bit too difficult to getsome of those guys down to South America
for these games, but something thatyou and I are going to be keeping

(05:21):
a close eye on later next weekwhen those games get underway, and it's
just kind of cool to see thosetwo CPL guys get the shout in.
One more from League more Ontario.And speaking of League one Ontario and the
Sincral County Rovers who won the twentytwenty three title, we now know all
three sides from League one who willbe representing in the twenty twenty four Canadian

(05:42):
Championship. Sincul County Rovers are drawnedby Victoria Hollanders who won League one VC
and CS SAT Launo won League oneQuebec. Interestingly enough, the champions in
League one DC and League one Quebecwho will representing the Canadian Championship were decided
by the table and not the playoffs, whereas in League one Ontario it was
the playoffs champion who who earns thathonor. And little side note, the

(06:06):
League one Quebec Cup gets under wayat the start of October, so a
little bit more soccer for us allto keep an eye on coming up in
the next few weeks. Yeah,a few thoughts and all that. I
mean when it comes to the seventeenWorld Cup roster. You nailed it with
the idea that this is a lifeexperience for these guys and you want to
go down and compete and see howwell you can do. But just having

(06:28):
the opportunity to play Spain, asI said, in Brazil and the friendlies
leading into it probably depict those lastfew spots too. As you say,
I think they're the European guys mightget the calling for the actual World Cup,
but you know, you don't wantto You don't want to go to
that well too often, so tospeak, if you're trying to do with
European teams, especially for a youthtournament, they're probably better off, you
know, competing day and day out, and training day and day out with

(06:50):
you know, in that professional environment. But look, I'm excited to watch
this game. There's gonna be alot of these games and the World Cup.
It's just great to see them inthere. You know. It was
a bit of a huff and puffsituation in the qualifying but they got there
and to reset button and they getan opportunity to go and represent the country
as young man and go to apart of the world that you know,

(07:12):
not a lot of them have probablybeen too, if any, and and
do some stuff and do their things. So so I'm excited by that pan
champ. It's interesting that they doit differently. I'm a believer that we
have to respect the North American cultureof sports, which means a playoff,
and I know that puts me onthe minority when it comes to the football
side of things, but we're aplayoff kind of country. But you know

(07:35):
what would be great, James,is one day if we could have more
than just the one entry coming fromthat level and maybe expand this tournament down
to additional rounds or qualifying rounds.Money is always the issue there, like
you have to make sure that theteams that qualify can afford to compete,
and that's tough for them right nowat this level. But I think we

(07:56):
might be able in a couple ofyears to see both the playoff and the
league champion of birth in the CaneChampionship and maybe have a have a prequalifying
round or something, and then wecan make this then further and bit longer
and longer, and the bigger getsthe more it seems like like a big
boy competition is opposed to those glorydays, which I enjoyed greatly when it
was a three team round robin.It's come a long way, but it

(08:16):
can go a little further. Ohyeah, yeah, I'm fully on board
with the idea of making the CanadianChampionship a little bit bigger. I like
rewarding, you know, both theteam that's the best over the regular season
and the team that earns their spotin the playoffs. It would have been
interesting had BC done the playoff roupbecause it was Vancouver's academy of course,
who won on the men's side thisyear, so it would have been interesting

(08:39):
to see how the Canadian Soccer Associationwould have handled that. I'm not sure
what the rule state in terms ofwhether a second team is allowed to represent
in those competitions, but I guessthat's a British level cross two when we
get to it. Yeah, Ibelieve that they said with TFC two they
when they were playing in USL,they didn't allow them in the KAME Championship.

(09:00):
I look, I know there's peopleout there that are not gonna like
what I'm about to say, butI think the two teams should absolutely be
part of the Canadian Championship. There. They're teams, and they're separate in
the first come, and they're gonnaif they draw the first team, they're
not going to sit down for them. They're not. They're just not.
That's not how sports work. Andif you think that's the case, then
I think you might be a littlebit putting a little bit more thought into

(09:22):
it than you need to. They'regoing to go and play. But I
like the idea of having those kidsand the academy have an opportunity to compete
in these cup competitions. If thatcould happen down the line, I think
that would be great and it wouldexpand the tournament a little bit further.
I'd also just be curious to seehow, you know, white Caps two,
TFC two, whatever one trail isdoing at the time at that level,

(09:43):
how they would match up with thewith the CAMPL teams. I'd be
really curious about that. I thinkthe CAMPL teams would be better. Probably
they're older, they're playing a professionalat the time, whereas MLS next probably
still get a weird level to geta handle on. But it would be
interesting to see and and it wouldbe a great in a competitive environment.
But we're not there where we arethough right now, James is it is

(10:07):
We're about to throw to an interviewthat we did a week ago with Mike
Mike Vitulano who is the men's RegionalExcel Director and he coached the Kadian under
fer fifteen team part of me recentlywho they came up just short of the
semifinals, lost on a wonder goalto Haiti in that tournament there. We
talked about it at the time.Mike was generous with this time last week,

(10:30):
and this is a really really goodinterview. Talks great handid insight into
the development scene and how they selectplayers, and you know, we asked
them whether maybe they were looking toomuch at the MLS academies. I know
that's a big thorn and a lotof fans sides and especially those that don't
support one of the three MLS teams. So we had a lot of good
chat there. So so we're gonnathrow to that now. Then James O'DI

(10:52):
will come back, have a fewmore news items and we'll talk about what
we heard from Mike and welcome backto the next pot. Joining us on
the line is can of Soccer's Men'sRegional Excel Director, director Mike Vitulano.

(11:18):
Mike, are you doing Thanks forjoining us. I'm doing well, thank
you and thanks for having me.No, no problem, Mike. Mike
was involved in the fifteen program.We wounded up a bit of a chat
about that level. Tell us abit about yourself and how you got involved
Kane Soccer first though. Yeah,so it goes back quite a bit.
I've been I've been coaching full timein the game for about fourteen years now,

(11:39):
since I stopped playing at twenty sixyears old, so I've gone through
different types of roles. My mostrecent role before this this job was technical
Director Director of Development at Soccer Quebec. I was also managing coaching education.
Prior to that, I also hada brief stint and TV of Manitoba,

(12:01):
but with national teams. It startedabout eight years ago with a first opportunity
for from Sean Fleming when he waswith the teen so I got a couple
of camps with him and grateful forthose experiences. And then when when John
Herdman took over the program in twentyeighteen, I was I was slowly,
you know, asked to become acontractual coach as a as an assistant coach

(12:24):
with them twenties with Andrew Levieri.Him and I go go back quite a
bit in our relationships working in Quebec, playing together, we have, you
know, a twenty year relationship,I would say, so even even more
than that. So working together wasyou know, was a start at the
U twenty level. Then we qualifiedfor the World Cup with the under seventeens

(12:45):
and twenty nineteen and now recently qualifiedwith the two thousand and six is for
the upcoming World Cup. So assistantcoach with the seventeens for the last I
would say four or five years,and also that opportunity with the U fifteens
just recently as a head coach forfor the very first time, Mica.
I spent a little bit of timelooking over your LinkedIn resume A really to

(13:07):
say three language is very impressive.Always good to see that. I wanted
to get a sense of what yourlarger role outside of the U fifteen tournaments
setting. I think a lot ofour conversation today will will revolve around that
recent CONCAFT championship. But what exactlydoes the men's Regional Excel director do on
a on a day to day,week to week month to month basis.

(13:28):
Yeah, very good question. Thecoaching part is is a real small part
of the job, and it's it'sactually an additional part of the job.
But the role in itself, youknow, Regional Excel Director. We use
the word regional as in parts ofthe country. So my essentially my role
is to work with you know,member associations across the country and make sure

(13:48):
that you know, those relationships areare aligning player identification, are aligning our
system, our philosophies, and andhow to you know, work together and
funnel players towards the next level.An overarching objective for me, or overarching
principle I put forward in my goalGoal three of our strategic development and is

(14:09):
more opportunities for more young Canadians.And it's not only about opportunities for players,
obviously that's the big part, butit's also opportunities for coaches. So
I put together a program about ayear ago. So I'm in this role
about a year and a half now, but about a year ago, in
September, I put together what Icall REX Integration Camps, so Regional Excel

(14:31):
a D camps, And what Ido is I travel across the country once
per year in different regions, andby region. I'll give you an example
of the Atlantic provinces. So inlast March I went to Nova Scotia and
the four Atlantic provinces kind of youjoined together and there were two thousand and
eight born players from all of thoseprovinces, about twenty five total players.

(14:54):
Staff members from the four provinces camein together and we did what I call
a step shot delivery of a nationalteam camp, but in your phase,
which you know, one or twosessions per day, with all our processes
and the video and the meetings andking sure that we're immersing the players but
also the staff in what it isto live an I D camp Now obviously

(15:16):
in a not an ID camp,sorry, a real national Excel activity with
the national team. So obviously it'sit's dimmed down a little bit because there's
only so much you can do inthree or four days. But it gives
them that experience. And you know, till this day, I get this
these emails from last last March orfrom players saying thank you for that experience.
You you enlighten me to to knowmore about Canada soccer. When I

(15:37):
watched the men's team play I cansee our tactical id come to life now
all the things that they learned.So that's really what I want to kind
of accomplish with role is about sharingtheir badge with more players, but really
sharing it on the pitch. Youknow, there's only so much you can
do with with presentations and all,but doing it on with coaches and players
is really uh in my role.But obviously you know, in a couple

(16:00):
of hours I have an a licensedpresentation to do for for Tiers course.
Jim Lachlan asked me to do apresentation, so that's a part of my
role too, is is how toshare more about our youth nationalm and just
let we'll know what our tactical ideasabout what our cultural framework is about.
I'm not the expert in all ofthose, but I'm the one that's going

(16:22):
to red message. Obviously we hadmental performance code. Is the one that's
going to can share more about thecultural framework and etcetera. So that's about
it. Hopefully that was clear enoughfor you. No, that sounds great.
I remember one of the early conversationswe have with John Herman was about
how he wanted to do that withall of the MLS academies and so that

(16:44):
when guys came into those national teamcamps, it wasn't their first exposure to
how Canada Software goes about doing things. So I'm glad that I'm glad to
hear that that's going on at theprovincial levels as well. We'll focus a
little bit on the recent tournament youguys played down in the Dominican Republic.
I wanted to get to give asense from you on how you guys go

(17:04):
about putting that squad together and thenhow you guys prepare them for you know,
a tournament that's that's really tough.I think the path to the final
would have seen the team play sixgames in eight days or something something wild
like that. So just walk methrough that that sort of preparation phase and
drawing the group together. Yeah,well that's a look. It was.

(17:25):
It was an ultimate challenge and itwas it was a great experience from everyone,
but really challenging and in one youknow, putting the team together and
then preparing them. So you mentionedjust now, you know, pro integration
is that idea that John and thestaff had put together in twenty eighteen.
So we actually did that with VancouverToronto and Montreal environs where we know the
players are are getting ready for thenext level. Do they all have the

(17:48):
potential to be on the national team. Maybe not now, but in the
future, you know, they certainlydo if they're if they're in those environments
and they're being recognized by those threeacademies. But there's also a lot of
players from outside those three environments atthose ages that that do well. And
on our wider squad of fifty fiveplayers that were eleven from those restententeration that
I've done across the country, andthat that says something because at those young

(18:12):
ages, you know, there's nocertainty on you know, should they are
they the best ones in Montreal,Toronald Vancouver. They probably have a good
chunk of the best ones. Butthere's late developers. There's players that develop
and differently, and we have tomake sure that we cover our grounds and
then you know, more and morewe get LinkedIn messages and we see the
tweets from all the great work thata lot of people with the social media

(18:37):
do in terms of knowing more aboutthe Europeans or the players that are roads.
And this year, you know,we were able to watch a lot
of footage, so I must havewatched over I would say one hundred or
two hundred hours of footage and makingsure that you know, we're assessing players
and watching games over and over tomaking sure that we make the right decisions

(19:00):
and and yeah, that part therewas challenging, you know, selecting a
player through video without having worked withhim. When you worked with the players
in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver,you know a little bit about their character.
You get to know how they livein the tactical idea, so you
have a bit of certainty on whatthey can and how they can perform at
the next level. But when you'reselecting a player through through video, you

(19:22):
know from from Europe and and abroad. I mean our selection process, we're
pretty deliberate about it. We wewe take in consideration their their present path,
their path and they're present and bypresent, what are they doing on
a daily basis, which environment arethey in and the path is what is
their path to their first team.So I'll give you an example with William

(19:42):
Daniels, young kid from Montreal.Is dad or parents moved to New England
when he was twelve years old.He was at the academy here in Montreal,
moved to England twelve years old,integrated Leicester Academy and now found himself
from the more of the community sideof the club into the academy side of

(20:03):
the club. So we kept tabson him, kept tracking the club.
I contact the club, they sentdown footage. I want four or five
games of him, and I feltthat he definitely at the level. And
you know when we fast forward throughthe tournament score two goals, played out
of position a little bit and reallyshowed that he has qualities for you know,
a long term potential. And Ican repeat that Kevin Can, I
can repeat that for you know,Dylan Judelson that played Orlando CITYFC, So

(20:29):
I've seen him live a little bitat those flex tournaments that the MLS organizes.
But you know, Andrei, JoshuaPersad, so all players that it's
difficult to select through just footage.But at the end of the day,
we do our due diligence. Wehave an assessment tool that we use and
we do it really objectively as objectivelyas we can, the staff and myself

(20:49):
to make sure that the decisions arethe right one. So that's about player
selection. That was the first partof your question, then the second part,
James is I mean, the realityis, you know, everybody can
see in the media what's going on, and you know I won't I won't
speak about you know, the financialthing is the thing, but the financial
part of things. But the realityis that we only had three days of

(21:11):
prep, four days of prep tops. So I met the player the very
first time in person the night ofAugust first, and we trained for the
first time on August second, actuallysorry, August secon. We trained for
the first time on August third.So we trained second, sorry second,
third, fourth, and fifth.Four trained sessions and one of those sessions
was cut a little bit short,so three and a half sessions in there.

(21:34):
To try to put together something thatlooks like, you know, an
organized team and the strategies to dothat was a few webinars before that,
so I met, I immerged someplayers that never saw the tactical ID so
the ones outside of the three clubsthat we selected from, there was one
from the Rex environment we we weselected from. So I did a couple

(21:56):
of webinars to immerge those players.I created videos for them and shared with
them so they can kind of getready on what set places is about.
We needed to hit the ground runningonce we got to Dominican Republic, so
that was important for us to comeup with that strategy never done before.
With the seventeens. We typically havemore camps that we can get to.
But you know, when I comparedto other countries like the US, who

(22:18):
had five U fifteen camps leading intothis event, you know, I'm assuming
they were a little bit more,you know, better prepared than we were.
But I think considering all that,considering some some good performances in the
group stage, fell short absolutely inthat quarterfinal game. But at the end

(22:41):
of the day, you know,knowing that the context, I think these
kids, they're they're terrific generation,and for me it was a it was
a pleasure working for them and thestaff. You know that an observed to
give these kids, these young mena nice foundation for the future of their
careers as pro as a young probut also with the national teams, and
I think we did just that.We often get caught up in the in

(23:06):
the moment when it comes to theyouth teams and we get disappointed when the
results don't quite go our way.You've outlined some of the challenges that are
there. Do you think it's thatthe winning at this level, that winning
tournaments and maybe under performing at particularlywhen you get up to the U twenty
level, is something that that Canadianfans should be concerned about. Or is

(23:26):
the goal all these tournaments more aboutdeveloping these players forward and perhaps helping them
find the next stage of their careerin terms of a move or or getting
to the right environment. I mean, I'd say it's both. I mean
using this as a platform as ashowcase for players to be seen and go

(23:48):
to the next level. I cangive you the example with the U seventeens
looking at the environments they were inprior to Guatemala in February, so prior
to qualifying, and environments that thesame places are in now. You know,
some of them are playing MLS minutesand the first team, some of
them are playing MLS next Pro,whereas if you rewind seven months they were
all playing you know, sixteen orseventeen. So you hope that the national

(24:12):
team environment will not only unlock thepotential of these young these young kids like
see the game differently, understand itdifferently, create create some relationships with their
with their new teammates, their newbrothers, I would call. But also
the winning part and performing to winis absolutely important for us as well.

(24:34):
Yeah, the qualifying consistently for WorldCups at you seventeen is important then,
like I'm not gonna lie underachieving thematch against Hey Is is something that you
know, we had to review andand for me as a coach personally but
also as the staff as an extendedstaff, where is we needed to be
that semifinal match and playing in thatsemi final match would have also get at

(25:00):
least a third place match if itdidn't go so well in the in the
semi finals. So two more internationalmatches for these for these boys would have
meant that much more in their developmentwhen you look at the development side of
things. But you know, figuringout pragmatic ways to win football matches is
also important. We give it ago in that match and we fell short.

(25:21):
That's going to happen. But qualifyingfor U seventeen World Cups consistently is
huge. Twenties haven't done it fora while, really important for us.
We need to put more energy andhopefully we get the resources to do it.
And then the Olympics at under twentythree, we haven't done since seventeen
eighty four d LA Games, Sothat's for us. We're looking ahead this

(25:41):
two thousand and seven generation that's goingto be the ones trying to qualify us
in just the last three years time. When they have an under twenty,
when they have the U twenty conkatCAF, it will be a double qualification
towards the U twenty World Cup butalso LA Games in twenty twenty eight.
So that's something we are already thinkingabout it. You know, what are
some strategies to make sure that wehave more young players playing at high you

(26:06):
know, John always said it moretier one or two players, So we
have that same direction that we wantto take with these with these younger players
fair fair enough and you don't haveto appreaching to the choir when it comes
to Olympic qualification. I think there'sa lot of opportunities lost there that we
haven't been able to put the resourcesand then we maybe might have been able

(26:26):
to in a better scenario, butwe won't go down the resource level too
far today. You sort of touchedon it earlier when you were talking about
the three MLS academies having the bulkof the players and underlining that they don't
always have the top talent. Theremight be players that slips through that cracks.
It has been a criticism of manyobservers of these programs for the years

(26:47):
that that our youth teams tend tobe you know, six guys from Toronto,
six guys from Montreal, six guysfrom Vancouver, and a couple of
guys they found in Europe. Right, is enough being done in your mind?
Obviously you want them to be enough, but is there enough being being
done to make sure that people aren'tfalling through the cracks? And do we
rely too much on the MLS academiesto find these kids? I mean,

(27:11):
we don't only rely on them.As I mentioned there are were eleven players
from those REX environments Regional Excel environmentsthat were on the wider squad. Definitely
in consideration. But when you askyourself the you know the main questions,
what are environments where players are goingto continually progress uh and do well at

(27:32):
higher levels? Well, one thingthat comes to mind is is annual training
contacts, which players are getting twohundred plus per year of training contacts five
games racial to one match like constantlythroughout the year. I'm not sure there's
more than those those three academies.Then when you look at complete four corner

(27:52):
practitioners working with these players four corners, and from a mental side of things,
from a physical side of things,from a social emotional side of things,
and then from the tactical side ofthings, a formal and pertinent competition
structure, the players getting a realcompetition structor, because if you're in a
program and you're playing, you know, twenty thirty friendly matches throughout the year,

(28:15):
well, you don't live the scrutinyand the consequences of of of a
loss and of a draw and droppingtwo points and or or the difficulty of
getting in a starting lineup for ayoung player, that's a part of the
learning. Another factor would also bethe pathway to our first team. So
if you're playing for you know,club community club soccer use seventeen and there's

(28:36):
nothing of you, well, you'reyou're you're playing to go to National's great.
At a community level, you maybe exceptional. But if I,
you know, remove remove you fromthat environment and project you an environment where
there's now there's scrutiny and there's there'sdifficulty, there's challenges, there's you're playing
in against a tougher opponent or youwill you survive so and and then the

(29:00):
fully funded part. I mean,these academies a lot of money and invest
a lot of money to these players, and the paid to play programs are
great that I'm sure there's fantastic onesacross the provinces and the country. But
at the end of the day,when when a club is investing the player,
they're making sure they have the processesto select the right ones. But

(29:25):
we do our trust me, wedo our due diligence to look all across
the goal to make sure that weknow about every single player. Look this
U seventeen selection. I was juston a call with the staff. I
mean we're considering players from all over. We're making sure we watched the footage
and there's the roster from February.Qualification too, now will be significantly significantly

(29:48):
different, and that's because players evolveand if we don't do that work,
for sure, we're open to thatcriticisms as you mentioned, but knowing that
we have free environ elements that arepushing players on a daily, on a
daily basis towards the next level makesus understand that those are the environments that

(30:08):
that we need to be looking aton top of every other one, and
we have we have examples of that. We do have examples of players from
the community, amateur from League onethat have been on the squads. It's
just a question of, you know, once they get in, are they
able to cope? So we don'tonly look in those environments, but it's

(30:30):
obviously with those five or six factorsthat I named, there are obviously the
the logical one too. To belooking like, it's been such a pleasure
having you on with us today.You've pretty much preempted the whole list of
little questions that I sort of puttogether with some of these very detailed answers

(30:52):
you've you've given us today. SoI learned to thank you for that.
I wanted to remind everybody that itdid take a heck of a strength from
Haiti to not you guys over thatknockout match, So just keep that in
mind. Everybody's listening as well.And you know, Dayne and I we
watched those U seventeens progress quite closelyas well earlier this year, and I've
seen an awful lot of theover Goopolasand Lazarre Stefanovic with TFC two this season,

(31:15):
Lazar a little bit with the firstteam as well. Now, so
in my little bit of background research, I saw you had a bit of
a futsal history on your resume,and Dwayne and I have talked about this
a little bit, just just howimportant that can be for a country that
has the weather challenges like we doin terms of allowing players to develop a

(31:36):
year round. And I just lovethe thoughts on that. Look, I'm
a big, big believer in futsaland small sided games at young ages to
to just get kids like repeating,repeating and repeating, touching the ball with
both feet and tight spaces, figuringout solutions to to get out of eight

(31:56):
spaces, whether it's with dribbles orwith the ball and footsaal gives you that,
it gives you the low, thelow bounce ball that that keeps the
ball on the ground all the time. I grew up playing in gymnasiums without
a footsal but even that helps,just because of the typeface to have to
deal with, I think technically itreally helps players. You know, when

(32:19):
this weekend I was just you know, out on the on the pitches,
just watching some some U nine youknow, soccer in various tournaments here in
Quebec. And you know, whenyou have you know, fourteen players on
a massive half of eleven aside fieldconsidered seven aside for me, I'd consider
that nice a side. It's toobig, like players that don't touch the
ball there. So if they don'ttouch the ball, not only they'll start

(32:40):
start disliking the sports because they're likea mom, dad, I touched the
ball twice in that whole game.What keeps them going is their friendships.
What keeps them going is their theirpotential wins. Let's put them in quotation
marks. But if you have kidsengaged in the sport because they're touching the
ball at the time, they're gettingfive hundred reps rather than than fifty reps

(33:04):
of touching in contacts and contacts,then chances are they'll stay in the sport.
Chances are they'll they'll develop more ability. So I really believe in it.
My you know, at Soccer Quebec, I was in charge of that
program. I ended up helping kitas an assistant coach for a few years
with the with the men's national teamfor FOOTSAL and I'm a big believer in

(33:27):
it, and if it doesn't haveto be in gymnasiums to your point,
we could use the infrastructure in acountry like ours. Absolutely, but it's
also about small side of games andmaking kids, you know, fall in
love the ball for they start sharingthe ball, fall in love with the
ball, be good at loving theball, win it back when you don't
have it, but when you haveit in your feet, love it,
love it so much that that youwant to you want to beat the man.

(33:50):
And if you once get that littlematurity at seven, eight, nine,
ten years old, now you canstart sharing it and understanding situations we
get I don't want to I'm goingon a rabbit hole here, James and
Dwayne, but we get up Uin the tactical side of things at nine
years old, they're not comfortable onthe ball enough. And I think FOOTSI
is a done good solution to it. As like, thank you so much.

(34:14):
I love hearing the passion come throughon subjects like that. I had
a sense that that would be agood way to wrap the Mike, Mike
Ricciano, thank you so much forjoining us today and hopefully we'll have you
back on in the future. Yeah, yeah, i'd be my pleasure and
thanks for having me. It wasit was fun. Thank you, welcome

(34:49):
back. One thing I love talkingto those guys like that is you really
I think when you're in the outsideof the situation, when you're outside of
the CSA, it's easy to getfocused on perceived failings or or frustrations with
the organization and just kind of puteveryone under the same umbrella, James,
And when you talk to a guylike Mike, you realize how much talent
there is out there that really isworking hard to make the game better.

(35:12):
And it's not just as easy assaying, like, the CSA is terrible.
Well, listen to what we justheard there, and you tell me
that that's not a guy that doesn'tknow what he's talking about, and it
isn't trying is very damned just tomake this program better and to take these
kids to the next level. Soit's it's just not as easy as a
blanket statement that the CSA is theproblem in Canadian soccer. It's not.

(35:34):
It's a you know, the issuesthat we do have are far more complex
than that. But I do thinkMike, for his time and I really
enjoyed that interview. What were yourthoughts on Yeah, I'm really glad that
that we can bring these kind ofconversations to the listeners. You know,
the national teams kind of kind ofeat up all the oxygen, they get
all the hideline, all the headlines. But as you said, underneath that,

(35:57):
there's so much going on and thereare so many good people doing their
work quietly day in and day out, that that helped build the future of
the game in this country. Andnow I kind of feel like it's our
remit here in the next part tobring you these conversations. So I was
really glad Mike could join us andoffer some inside I think I think the
things that today to me were thatI appreciated his honesty in terms of how

(36:19):
much of a struggle it is toget a group ready for this kind of
competition, given the restrictions that kindof the has compared to some of these
other countries. I think mostly thereyou're looking at the US and in Mexico,
who you know, have have healthierbank accounts and more money to throw
out these kind of competitions. AndI appreciated his disappointment in the team not
being able to go deeper into thecompetition. As you said, it was

(36:42):
a bit of a wonder strike fromHaiti that ends up knocking them out.
But you know, you could hearit in Mike's voice that he wanted these
guys to not just succeed, butto get those extra games that would have
come by reaching the semifinal and gettingeither a final or a third place game.
And he wants them to push onto the next level, whether it's
the limit Picks or that you seventeenWorld Cup or whatever that next thing is.
I mean, you and I havetalked a number of times about how

(37:06):
important these international experiences can be forthe guys, not necessarily the wins and
losses, but just just having theseopportunities to go out there and see what
the wider world of soccer sort ofhas for you. And then, you
know, I like the thing thatthat I sort of liked was that last
little question I snuck in and everyso awesome, such as when Iceland broke
on the scene and sort of surprisedeverybody, or when you know, the

(37:30):
kroy courts were all the rage.A few years ago. The idea of
footsol and small sided games for youngerkids pops onto my radar, and I
really love that idea of teaching thekids to get those touches and to learn
to love the ball and cherish itas a way of building that technical foundation
that will suit them well going forward, but also inspire them to love the

(37:50):
game and have the passion for thegame. And hearing that from the man
tasks with guiding the next generations justno warms the cockles of my heart.
Yeah. And I think I saidat the time we have our foots a
conversation. I think in a wintermonths, a lot of the particularly the
Latin countries, really focus on footstalas the development and small side of games
that are obviously some we talk abouta lot too, and the footsal skills

(38:14):
sort of transfer uh to you know, just better strength and confidence on the
ball, and it's it's something thatwe're missing in this country, but really
that we could implement quite easy.We have tons of places that can be
converted into futsal playing areas in thecountry. We don't have so many,
you know, eleven eleven twelve monthsa year fields out they're not We have

(38:37):
some them in many and a lotmore than you know, other countries that
live in the north. But butwe have a lot more gyms in a
lot of more places where you couldhave a futsal place. So I think
it absolutely should play a role movingforward. And it's a fun game to
watch too, footsal isn't it.It's it's a great spectator sport and I
think it would really appeal to Canadiansif we get a lot more of it

(38:57):
out there. So let's hope thatit happened. That's hope that we see
more footsill. And then it's hopethat the you know, the young guys
that that he helped get to thenext level can keep going through and get
to an under seventeen and get toa World Cup there, and get to
an under twenty and get us backto an under twenty World Cup, because
really we do need, you know, to give them those experiences if we're
going to continue to excel forward.All right, let's move to a few

(39:22):
more news items to wrap the showup here. Uh, speaking of development,
which just shows all about but let'smove a little bit to the club
side. MLS next, which isthe MLS Academy side of things. They
started back up this fall. Itseems like the season never really ends in
MLS, It just keeps going,James, but tell us a little bit
about wants next and what some keydates we might be looking for in the

(39:45):
near future and so on. Yeah, it is one of those seasons,
and I think that's part of theidea is that it it sort of goes
most of the year round, insteadof having these really short windows like we've
seen with some of the university programswhere guys you know, aren't used to
that professional the rigors of a professionalcareer and you know, I'm LUs next.

(40:06):
The season kicked off last weekend.Unfortunately, the league website has still
not been updated with the schedule,so it's a little bit hard to give
people much inside. I know thata couple of the TFC Academy teams were
off to Montreal to start their seasonnow, so that was nice to see.
Terry Denfield took a moment out ofhis busy interim head coaching duties to
go out there on which the Ufifteens and the Year seventeens good luck before

(40:29):
they headed off to Montreal to startthat off. So season kicks off this
past weekend September. I'm also thenext Fest, which is a nice little
big showcase that a nice a littlebig showcase, I don't know what that
means. A nice showcase for theseyoung players to get in front of college
coaches and scouts and agents and allthat sort of thing is in December and
I'll take place in feex Arizona.Generation of DDS Cup in Brandonton, Florida

(40:52):
spedule for next March. MLS NextFlux will be held in Maryland next May,
and that's sort of the alternative routeto the playoffs. As much as
the MLS Next has done a lotto streamline a lot of things, not
all these teams end up playing thesame number of matches over the year,
so qualifying for the playoffs can bea little bit of amaze to try and

(41:14):
figure out. So this is analternative roots another little showcase for the tournament.
And then the MLS Next Cup playoffsand showcase are scheduled for the middle
of June of next year, andwe covered a fabry of that this year
as well, where teams that arethat are not involved in the playoffs or
get knocked out of the playoffs takepart in the showcase. So the trip
that they make to wherever it's hell, I don't think it's been determined yet

(41:37):
where it will be held, doesn'tend up just being one game and then
you're going home. They will playmatches there, so it's a good place
for teams in scouts and agents andcolleges and all that's wanting to get a
look at these guys. And thenthe last thing on the calendar is July's
MLS Next All Star Game, whichwill be held in Columbus, Ohio.
So you know, another another busyyear of academy football is getting on their

(41:58):
way here for the three kat clubsand all the teams in MLS. So
it's something will be keeping an eyeon a little bit as things go forward,
and as that website gets updated withsome scores that we can find hopefully
and a little bit higher up.The final weekend of MLS Next Pro is
upon us already. Unfortunately, bothTFC and Vancouver have already been eliminated from

(42:20):
contention, but they'll wrap up theirseasons. On Sunday, TFC will host
Crown Legacy at York Clients Day atYork Giens Stadium. Crown Legacy are Charlotte's
affiliate on there top of the EasternConference and they're pushing the Colorado Rapids to
be top of the league as well, and Vancouver will finish their season at
Tacoma on Sunday as well. MLSNext Pro does the same thing that that

(42:42):
MLS does on the final day,the decision day type thing where all the
Eastern Conference games are all at thesame time and all the Western Conference games
around at the same time. There'snone the time to be decided. Most
of the spots have already been wrappedup, but it should be a stanning
to see how these young men doon those final days. And you know,
while there won't be any Canadian teamsin the playoffs, there will still
be a bunch of Canadian content andthat's something that I think you and I

(43:04):
will league into a little bit morenext week as we get ready for that.
And they found a little bit ofnews was just we didn't get a
chance to talk much about the Canadianwomen's squad that was announced for their Olympic
qualifiers that are coming up later thismonth against Jamaica. But a little tiny
bit of news came across my deskearlier today and it was that Annabel Trick,

(43:25):
who has been added to the squadfor these games against Jamaica. Jade
Rivera and Dan Rose have pulled thatwith injury, so Annabel joins Olivia Smith
as another one of those young playersthat we featured a fair bit this year
to be stepping up to the firstteam. She's not the only young player
on the team. Alongside Olivia,there's Simmy Wouju's twenty. Jordan item I

(43:45):
was still just twenty two, whichis shocking giving her long we've been speaking
about her and Jade Rose, who'stwenty as well, are on that roster
and they sat round out that theyounger end of the Canadian women's roster for
these games against Jamaica's just wanted tomake sure everybody was aware of that and
keep an eye because the NBL scoresome goals, and scoring goals is what

(44:07):
the Canadian women's national team is reallygoing to need to figure out how to
do against the team in the WorldCup that that was one of the darlins.
They didn't go deep, but theyreally surprised people and you know,
only allowed one goal. They candefend Jamaica and this is not going to
be an easy tie. Anyone whothinks otherwise might be in for a bit
of a shock Keys at first leg. I don't think Canada can come back

(44:30):
down a goal. They've got tomake sure they take care of their own
end themselves in that game. That'sfor different podcasts though. Look. One
of the greatest things I liked aboutlistening to you talk about MLS next,
James, was you were talking aboutall these dates that are our next season
in terms of an MLS season,and that means that we are getting closer
to saying goodbye to the twenty twentythree TFC season, which cannot end quick

(44:53):
enough. But that's also for amuch different podcast. My final question for
the day, just to keep usin the theme of our our yearly theme
of this podcast, I have aquestion, James, who will score more
tomorrow Jeaquille Marshall, Ruddy or LionelMessi. Oh, that's a big question.

(45:15):
I guess it depends who's on thepitch. We still don't know whether
Messi is fully recovered some of theinternational exertions with Argentina. You know,
he missed their game against Atlanta,wasn't even dressed for the day. We
did see an image of him onthe sidelines at is U twelve Sons match,
and as Terry Denfield joked in ourpress conference our press call with him

(45:36):
the other day, woe to theU twelve coach who's got Leto and MESSI
as one of the dads on thesidelines, second guessing every one of your
decisions. So I'm not going toanswer that question because because it's it's uh,
well, let's be honest. Ifthey're both on the pitch, messy
scoring more goals than Jaquielle, butI don't know. I think Jacquielle has
got a couple of goals in himas well, So just hopefully we see

(46:00):
them both out there and it's agood game. It should be fascinating one.
I'm in all seriousness looking forward tothe back half of this MLS season
because it should be pretty exciting footballplayed and one of the great storylines if
you're not following at his whether inMiami can pull themselves into the playoffs,
and if they do, I thinkthey're the ML's Cup favorites. If they
can get into that night spot,and certainly they will be the ML's Cup

(46:22):
favorite so the start of next year, so it's going to be interesting to
watch whether Messi's body can handle theplay in Major League soccer, but he's
a long way from a development topic, so we'll leave it at that.
James, any final thoughts in theday before we say goodbye for another week.
No, just to hope everybody enjoyedour chat with Mike and we'll continue
to work to keep any of thosegood conversations. On that note, we'll

(46:45):
say goodbye and we'll talk to youagain next week. In the wonderful world,
develop him up home pay