July 12, 2024 • 42 mins
Amy Walsh joins the show to talk about the women's professional player pathway in Canada ahead of the inaugural season of the Northern Super League, Jesse Marsch urges the acceleration of player development for the men's national team and touches on the role the Canadian Premier League can play, and Andrew Olivieri looks ahead to the men's U-20 national team's Concacaf Championship adventure
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Welcome to Next Pod, your weeklylook at Canadian prospects with the One,
the Only, Doug Great, theWondrous James GRASSI also me Dwayne. I'm
Dwayne every time I hear that introfrom Dwayne and making you blush a little
(00:46):
bit. But James here, thanksfor joining us. I'm flying solo on
this Friday afternoon, so I'm goingto keep the chatter to a minimum.
We still have a few items onthe dock and for today. I recently
had the chance to speak with AmyWalsh about the women's development pathway. We
framed the conversation as three parts ofwhat the landscape looks like now, what
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it looked like back in the day, and what it could look like in
the future. To my mind,the evolution to date has been from random
chance as Amy touches on when shespeaks about her career, to the more
formalized pathway of the provincial team,to the youth national teams, to the
national development centers and the college route. But now with the Northern Super League
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on the horizon, having that fullfledged domestic upper expression of the game and
how those interactions will form and takeshape over the next decade will be one
of the undercurrents that shapes the futureplayer pool for the women's program. Lots
of very insightful points for Abe.We'll throw to that now and I'll come
back with smadio from Jesse Marsh andAndrew Olivieri as the men's you twenties look
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to qualify for the World Cup.Hello, Hello, and welcome back to
the next part. I'm really pleasedto be joined on the show by CF
Montreal, collaborator and technical advisor ofthe women's program, and I think it's
fair to say the star of FreePrime the podcast, Amy Walsh, Amy,
Welcome to the show. It isfair to say that I'm the star
(02:14):
of that podcast. No, it'snot true at all. I love being
on with with those guys and I'mhappy to be on with you today.
Collaborator sounds very sinister to my anglophoneears, but give us a sense of
what your role is with with Montreal. I talk to them about that you
know about about using collaborator. Iwas like, I don't. I don't
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think that's really the word that weneed to use in English, but I
think primarily it's collaboratar that's used infringe. I was like, advisors maybe
better suited and maybe what I seemyself doing, but I don't think that
the title really has anything to dowith the day to day and in a
lot of ways, I'm a spokespersonand ambassador for the club and always trying
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to push equity on the women's side. I've actually had less to do with
the academy this year then say,and when I was first brought on in
the fall of twenty two. Ithink since the club officially took the women's
program the PF that was used tobe under the umbrella of Quebec Soccer,
and they did a fabulous job.I think that they've benefited from kind of
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the in house resources that the clubhave in terms of, you know,
the HR and the technical staff andthe physios and everything that sort of surrounds
the first team and the reserve teamand what the boys have for the seventeens
and the fifteens on their side.They've certainly benefited from that. But I've
had kind of less to do withthe academy set up kind of this year,
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at least this calendar year. Butit's been good and I think with
what's on the horizon for you know, this this pool of talent in Quebec,
which we know is really deep.Diana Mathieson kept talking about the need
for a team here and I knowthat we'll probably jump to that. I
don't want to jump ahead too much. I think it's really good and it
bodes well for the group that isat CF Montreal, but the group that's
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coming up underneath them and pushing themon and will probably be the next generation
that comes to the program. Yeah, we got to see a few of
the stars from Montreal's U seventeen teamwith them, Humphries on her side with
Canada down in Mexico earlier this year, Leanna Tuasco and Juliet Perrou They of
course played in League one Quebec there. They're off to a good start and
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we've got those inter provincial championships tolook forward to at the end of August.
Figures crossed. I'm sure Montreal willwill be there if things hold true
to form the top two. Theleague is interesting. It's split into two
groups, first and second place,crossover for semi for a semi final,
and there's a final between the twoand we'll figure out a winner there soon
enough. But as you mentioned,it's a really exciting time for women's professional
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soccer in Canada, and you know, one of the reasons are the the
key reason that I wanted to getyou on the show today was to talk
a little bit about what we canexpect. And I thought a little look
at the lay of the land asit currently stands right now, what it
looked like back in the day,and what we wanted to look like in
the future, would be a greatway to do that. So, you
know, we've all been enjoying theunveiling of the three NSL clubs that we've
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seen so far, we await thedetails on the other sides. Names and
crests and colors are all well andgood, but I want to dig a
little bit deeper onto what it willmean to have a professional expression of the
game here in Canada for these ladies. I think you know, to my
mind, one of the biggest changeson the men's side that we've seen in
the last twenty years is the threeMLS clubs and the academy structures that they
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brought in place, the addition ofthe CPL clubs and the evolution of the
League one system, which has meantthat now players once that talent gets identified,
there are pathways for them to continueto follow as they go in search
of that professional level. So Ithink we'll start with what does the professional
pathway look like for a young womanat this moment right now? Before I
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get into that, I just wantto say, when I grew up,
I mean, the landscape was very, very different and then for me personally,
like this is completely anecdotal, butI think it represents the struggle back
then. But what continues to bea struggle now in barriers in the way
of participation. Given you your yourrace, or your heritage or your socioeconomic
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background. And as one of fivekids, my parents wouldn't have been able
to afford to put my sisters andI or my older brother for that matter,
in this high level of soccer nowbecause you have to pay so much
out of pocket in order to participate. So one of the biggest things that
we did as part of the clubwhen the PF like the REX program in
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Montreal, came under the umbrella ofthe club was to remove the three thousand
dollars that the parents we're paying fortheir young children for their girls to participate.
So that's massive, and I thinkacross Canada, that remains a challenge.
I think it's certainly a challenge inthe Montreal area in the province of
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Quebec to to make sure that you'remaking the sport accessible to all. So
hopefully when we're taking a look atthe pathway and what looks like in the
future, that that is a possibilitythat we can. You know, besides
the three academies that you mentioned offthe top, with the MLS franchises that
you know, CPLS are able tobuild out a little bit more. There's
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a CPL franchise that comes to Quebecthat with the NSL franchise that's going to
be here, that you make thatpipeline more robust and you make sure that
it's an inclusive and an equitable oneand accessible one to all. So for
right now, the way that itlooks like is you have your PLSGQ,
which is kind of like the youthprogram is I guess would feed up into
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the League one and then our fifteensplay in a U twenty one Triple A
circuit. But it's but there's summercircuits, right and they're done in conjunction
with sports study programs, which iswhat the fifteens and the seventeens as part
of that women's program that we haveat CF Montreal is part of the academy
toil in year round. So I'mnot sure what that looks like across the
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country if there's a similar setup,but I'm guessing that there is. And
so you get that high specialization,you get players who are highly technical,
but then you also have the negativeto all that is when you specialize early,
perhaps you end up burning out,either mentally or physically, and you
get these injuries. But you know, I think that the support that's there,
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I think that players will be guidedand have the proper resources in order
to stay healthy and hopefully in thegame for a long time. But a
problem with the fifteens and the seventeensat the club currently, and again it's
not just our club, is notjust our province. I think this is
Canada wide. Is what can weoffer the girls in order for it to
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be truly equitable in the way ofcompetition. So when you were looking at
the league one season, you knowyou're not playing for longer than but is
it five months? Is that aboutright? If my math correct? So
what do we provide? Are theyproviding to them in the other months of
the year in order to make thatmore robust, in order to make it
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more like what the boys get asa trickle down effect from MLS when they're
playing in MLS next. So,you know, is it up to MLS
to figure out something out in conjunctionwith NWSL, who are not mandated to
have academy teams themselves, so thatyou know, digs into a whole other
development problem there. I know theyit's not lacking for infrastructure, it's not
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lacking for cash, but is theonus on MLS to develop something that is
equitable in the way of MLS next, but also for girls or can Canada
do something? And I think they'rethe inherent challenges of climate and end of
geography, but I think that weneed to do more to especially build up
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that tier two so we have thepeak of the pyramid now in NWS or
NSL. And and by the way, like that Diana alluded to that,
like when you're googling NWSL, likethe happy accidents for people who are going
to end up on Northern Super League'swebsite. I think that's going to increase
the traffic in the eyeballs and sothat's good, and I just did it
there, misspeaking. But you havethe peak of the pyramid in finally having
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a domestic pro league. But thendoes League One come and shore up that
Tier two or does League one endup being your tier three? And then
you create something that's going to comeunderneath those six pro franchises in the way
of a reserve team, like themuch the way you see it at the
club where they have their reserve teamin the absence of having an MLS next
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Pro team, they have the reserveteam for CF Montreal playing in the League
one men's So I mean, that'scurrently what it looks like. I've probably
left some gaps in my description ofthat pipeline, but I think the biggest
challenge is developing the Tier two.But more than that is a circuit that
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will allow these players to develop ona year round basis excellent. Yeah,
I guess I've sort of like I'mmuch more removed from this thing. You
So my view is sort of thatten thousand foot view, And so to
my mind, the biggest the biggestchange on the women's side has been sort
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of the coalescing of the NBC programsand having not build better the provincial teams.
We're sort of in the first decadeof that. I think we're starting
to see some of the fruits ofit. But as you mentioned, the
regular issue is are they getting thechallenge that they need from week in week
out over that short season that youmentioned in order to really maximize the opportunity.
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I know when t C left LeagueOne Ontario to go and join the
USSDA back in the day, GregVanny explained it as you know, they
were they would have a good matchesin League one Ontario week to week,
but every once in a while itwould it would be, you know,
once a month they'd have a goodgame and the rest of the games they
were winning five MIL and not reallystressing themselves. So by going state said
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they were able to ensure that thatlevel of competition was more regular form,
and I think I think that's anissue for the NBCs right now. We've
seen Vancouver's or the White Cap sideout and BC be pretty dominant. They
get pushed a little bit the Ontarioside. You know, Alliance gave them
a run for their money last year, ended up winning the championship. But
they're always there or thereabouts. Uh, the Montreal side in League One,
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Quebec at top of the table rightnow, and you know, I've seen
that they've had some struggles in theodd game, but more or less they're
expected to go out there. AndI League one Alberta, their their provincial
side is performing quite well given it'sa relatively new program as well. And
I think if I can just piggybackoff of something you're saying there, like
that the ten thousand foot view versuskind of being in the weeds, I
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think you've seen a ceiling almost put, not necessarily on development, but in
terms of scouting and recruitment and whattype of players you're identifying. Because these
NDCs are beholden and are following ablueprint for development that's put into place by
Cindy Tie and Emma Humphries and toand above them Bev Priestman. Right,
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they want to play a certain wayand they want to adhere to that philosophy
of play. That makes infinite sense. But in terms of a player development
outlook, we're pigeonholing ourselves. Soyou get a player like a Chloe La
Cass who is completely different from thetype of player that we're developing or a
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player like Evelyn Vienne who is maybethe other side of the coin, who
is your true poacher, who isphysical, whose sniffs out goals can can
really upset teams because of just herdominance and her physicality and her out and
outpays going forward. And Olivia Smithwho is also a little bit different.
So that difference comes to complement andadd a variety to the attack and a
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variety and how Canada perform and givethem I think, more of a chance
to excel on the world stage.And then if you bring that down to
the U twenties into the U seventeen, I mean, obviously there are challenges
in this country. There are challengesscouting. I think now with technology we
can kind of get fast that andcan you can identify players no matter where
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they are in the world. Butas it comes to identifying players who are
Canadians, what NSL does and thepotential for developing academies is developing different outlooks,
different philosophies, different systems of play, and different players who are going
to excel and blossom within these andthen maybe these players never reach bev Priestman's
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wider roster. Whoever the coach endsup being, but in terms of the
development across the country and making everythingelse grow and thrive and just nourish that
ecosystem of development, I think thatis what I'm most excited about for this
league. Yes, it's the topof the pyramid and you have to go
in, and it's going to bedecades long filling in the rest of the
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gaps in that pyramid. But Ithink it's really promising and I'm really hopeful
for what that will bring because aplayer like me made a career out of
beating the crap out of players deepin that midfield and playing I was a
player who excelled the club and Icould score goals and my game was quote
unquote well rounded. But at theinternational level, I knew what my bread
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and butter was, and it waswinning tackles, it was winning balls,
it was winning headers, it wasdoing the grunt work. And so is
there still a place for obviously aslightly more refined version of what Amy Walsh
was the next level, or atthe level just below, or a Chloe
La Cass or somebody that we haven'tyet seen, and that, I think
is what Canada does have, andwe just have to mine that talent properly
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and make sure that we're identifying thosetypes of players. What was it like
for you coming up as a player, What did that pro pathway look like
for you? There wasn't a propathway right, Like I didn't even have
female role models like Jackie Joyner,Kersey and Charmaine Crooks was a big idol
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of mine. I was a trackrunner. I specialize in eight hundred and
the fifteen hundred and that individual sportmentality and understanding how far I could push
my body and how I could operateslightly out of my comfort zone or be
completely out of my comfort zone andthen recognize what that felt like informed so
much of my life and success asa team sport athlete. So I always
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talked to kids teams, be itboys or girls, about the benefit of
playing other sports, doing different thingsto compliment whatever it is that they want
to do, to help to supportthat. But that you know, learning
about yourself like sport is a greatway to do it. But you know,
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I found out about the women's nationalteam by reading our local newspaper.
I grew up in Saint Bruno onthe south shore of Montreal, and Connie
and Moore in Kent were two sisterswho played for the women's national team in
the early nineties. And Canada's firstWorld Cup was not ninety one when we
had our first Women's World Cup sanctionedby FIFA, but in nineteen ninety five,
so it was probably you know,early nineties. And I read about
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it and I was looked at mymom and I said, this is a
thing. I can play soccer formy country. And so I was maybe
fourteen. And then the irony isthat my first cap when I played in
nineteen ninety eight against China in Ottawa. I shared the field with my sister
Cindy, other sisters from Saint Brunowho then went on to represent their country.
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So I mean there was no path. I mean I ended up on
the provincial team because I went froma double A setup in my town to
a triple A setup just a littlebit further out and in the space of
a winter time, so say sixmonths, I must have gone from like
a level two technical ability player tolike I was, I mean and again
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and that that wasn't my my specialty. I wasn't the most talented or highly
technical player. But in six monthsplaying footsal in a gym I made.
I came along leaps and bounds andin terms of my my technique and my
shooting and just the confidence I hadin myself because I could always athlete my
way out of stuff. And thenthat sort of springboarded me to provincial levels,
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to you twenty levels, and thenand then the national team. But
the big move for me was goingsouth and getting getting a scholarship to Nebraska
because I think now there's more opportunitiesand I think now, especially in Quebec
where sometimes language was a barrier.In the past, were coaches that I
know, I'm bouncing all over theplace, but coaches used to say,
what happened even to all the Quebecplayers, and what happened is that a
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lot of them are Francophone. I'min a minority. Reeen Wilkinson's in the
minority as Anglos from this province wherethey didn't feel like they were well supported
or they had a family they wereclose to and they wanted to stay home.
But in the past, the coachessaid, well, if you're not
going to be toiling and playing inthe best circuit, which to them was
by far and away, the NCAAand They probably weren't wrong, but they
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put their blinders out and they said, well, we're not going to look
at you, and they sort oftook themselves out of the national team setup
or out of consideration for the team, which was sad because there was so
much talent that's always really been herein this province. Going to the NCAA
at the time was the best decisionI'd ever made, because I was cut
from the full national team or thesenior team in ninety seven and that was
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just, you know, I neededto face a little bit of adversity and
probably a good reality check for methat because McGill at the time in the
CiU like girls showed up and ithad never played competitively before and that was
the makeup of that team that year. So my level dipped considerably and face
the music wasn't good enough and thatsummer because at the time, the women's
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national team we just got together duringthe summer months. It wasn't a year
round program. And then I wasa starter the following year after my first
full year at Nebraska, So thatwas the best decision I made. But
now in my role at c FMontreal is to show these young women that
that's not the BND be all endall. That's the expression to go to
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the US that there's all kinds ofoptions now and that they too can dream
about about becoming a professional and theycan do it now in their own backyard.
So that's really exciting. But Ithink for young women's studies and their
education remain a priority, which isequally as important. But I also think
now that this league is finally announcedas kicking off next April, let these
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young women dream about becoming pros likethe education piece will always be there.
They can do it online. ThatI think is something that's sort of built
in to the psyche of a womanathlete, that the education is an important
component of their growth and of theirdevelopment. But let's let them have that
dream. Because our young boys havehad it for a really long time.
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It's about time that the girls haveit too. Definitely. Definitely. So
if I put you in Jodoje andin ten years the NSL clubs, I've
got their footprint down. They're startingto branch out into the community. There
lay in those understructures that we've talkedabout a little bit here. What does
it look like for you? Whatdo you want it to look like when
we're having this conversation in ten fifteenyears. Yeah, I think it would.
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I think if you're starting, Ithink you want it to be bottom
up. So you know, whatis troubling now is that the youth structure
for girls is still very fragile.And my daughter now is you and so
have a fourteen year old son andtwins who were ten and my daughter and
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my niece because my sister Bonnie hasa daughter who's the same age as as
my twins, so the three ofthem are together in You ten Boys,
and that's the best place for myniece and for my daughter currently. We
talked last year because it was anequitable offering in You nine. And I
know this is this is very anecdotalbecause it's my experience here in Quebec on
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the south shore of Montreal at ourown little club and association. But I
imagine that that across the country.It's it's pretty similar. But we went
over to the girls practice and Isuggested a hybrid approach. The technical director
agreed, and they were a fewgirls who were who were decent players,
and I looked at them and Ithought, and I said to somebody else,
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was volunteering. I said, Idon't want this to be an indictment
or a condemnation of what my club'sdoing, because again, the caveat I'll
put on it is that I'm sureit's people have similar experiences across the I
said, are a lot of thesegirls as it's their first year and they
said, oh no, they've beenplaying together. The majority of the group,
like the core group, have beentogether for two or three years,
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and I think probably four or fivegirls out of twenty or twenty five could
receive and passable. And I said, this is unacceptable. Like my group,
the U nine boys group at thetime, I said, they're not
where they are as a group becausethey have my sister and I as coaches.
They should be at that level becausethe club is supporting them in the
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right way and that they have thesupport, whether it's people volunteering their time
or like monitors who are there tohelp, because we have kids who are
either signed up to be referees orthey want to be involved in coaching later
on, and they come on andthey would help these groups because up until
that point we would do like fourstations and the kids would rotate through and
that was it. So we pulleda couple of the girls who are decent
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players out for like a little competitiveteam. But this year remains the same
where like the cohorts of girls,you lose a lot of them, and
not only at nine to ten,but especially at the age of puberty.
So I think it's about looking atthat structure. Do you encourage them to
stay the same, like together,like a blend of you know, the
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boys and the girls, and theyevolve together. My argument is yes,
but I also see the benefit tokeeping those cohorts together, sort of knitting
those friendships and that chemistry together sothat they continue to evolve together. But
I think it's about making that alot more robust and a lot more sound,
so that you can springboard them onas they go from seven a side
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to nine a side to eleven asideand you have enough players to pull from,
because then when you get to likeregional things, you pull the best
players out of these setups. Thenthese young girls teams crumble because then they
not only don't have enough players,but you've taken the two or three players
that that drive the whole thing.You've removed them from the equation. So
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I think there's a lot that wehave to address just in terms of participation
and the way that we're helping girlsto stay active and then have a bigger
pool from the recreational level or fromthe the you thirteen level, so that
once you get to elite and competitivethat there's a lot more of them to
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build competition and to push each otheron and and and and to foster that
so that you're you're you're really workingoff something that that makes sense when it
comes time to go up and thenyou're the selection process and the scouting process.
But I think it's it's that it'sthe competition circuit that I talked about
earlier. So if you know thisleague is going to be sustainable, I
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have confidence in that. I haveconfidence in Diana and confidence in the investors.
I think people are going to showup and show out for these teams
and for this league much the waywe've seen p WHL do it. So
I hope that over time there's thattop down approach where you know you're making
sure the pipeline is feeding into thosefranchises across the country, but that each
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individual franchise is doing their due diligenceand they have a responsibility to making sure
that entire ecosystem is nourished, andthat that feeder system is created and is
going all the way down to thegrassroots, and is making sure that there's
not a siloed approach, but thateverybody is in it together to make sure
that the girls game and the women'sgame continues to be a priority in this
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country. Yeah. I love theidea of building up as well as from
bottom up as well as top down, because so many times we see it
come just top down, and that'snot necessarily how things grow. You know,
things are unstable, people brought down. Emmy Walsh, you've been very
generous with your time today. Thankyou so much for joining us here,
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and hopefully we can chat about thisagain in the future when we've that,
when we've got some more of thosestructures in place to look at. I
would love to do that. Thanksfor having me, And if anything about
was generous in my time, it'sjust because it was very long winded.
But I love to chat about soccer, and especially women's soccer, so thanks
for having me. A huge thankyou to Amy for joining the show.
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I always love hearing from people whoare more involved in the day to day
conversations about development, because there's alwaysa few points of emphasis that have escaped
my attention that they highlight Amy's Amy'sconversation was full of those, and Dwayne
and I will talk about those alittle bit more next week, but for
now, Jesse Marsh had a momentafter the semifinal against Argentina to speak to
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the media back here in Canada,and he was asked about some of the
bigger picture angles around the national team, and he took the opportunity to urge
that Canadian Soccer accelerate the development arcsof younger and younger players, put more
responsibility on them, challenge them,and even with so far as to suggest
that the CPL should consider a rulethat mandates the number of young players on
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the pitch, not just the minutesas we have with the you twenty one
rule currently, but a spot ortwo or three or whatever the number ends
up being on the field for theseyoung players. So here's a few snippets
from those conversations with Mark. Yeah, too many of these players development arcs
as have launched at too late anage right, so at the youth level,
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and this is both the youth nationalteam level, and club level and
academy level. We've got to demandmore out of the players. We've got
to demand more physically, We've gotto demand more mentally. We've got to
have more personalities in our players.Too. Many of the players here are
too quiet, you know. Andit's not that they're not intelligent, because
they are, but they're not demandedto be more and physically, mentally,
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intellectually. We've got to find away to develop players faster, right,
and the best, you know,Like, there's a really good chance that
Luke de Fougerol starts on Saturday andhe's eighteen, but he doesn't play like
an eighteen year old. And Ihaven't treated him like an eighteen year old.
I've demanded a lot out of himevery day. He's trained really well
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every day, and I think he'sbeen one of the best performers in camp,
and he's gotten much better over time. And this is what you know.
Even when I references at one point, but when I first came,
people would tell me, oh,he's young, and I'd say how old
is he and they would say twentyfour twenty five, and I would say,
that is not young, Okay,that's established professional level. And so
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that's one of the biggest things iswe need to accelerate the performance arc the
development paths of these players, andwe need to demand more out of the
young players in the country. AndThat'll be an emphasis of of whether I'm
doing coaching clinics, whether I'm doingsymposiums, whether I'm meeting with coaches,
whether I'm meeting with clubs. We'vegot to find a way to demand more
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out of the young players. Andwhen I say young, I mean like
fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, nottwenty four to twenty five, twenty six
should be playing as many young playersas they possibly can should be There should
be rules for me and we haveto go through all this, but there
should be rules about how many youngplayers are on the pitch. And again,
when I mean young players, Idon't mean twenty two year olds,
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I mean seventeen, eighteen, nineteenyear olds. There needs to be a
way to put more responsibility on youngplayers, to challenge them for what the
highest standards of games are. Imean, this has been the biggest thing
that I've tried to do with thisplayer pool that I have. It's more
sprinting, more running, more initiatingcontact, more winning duels more like understanding
(30:51):
what the highest level is. Andwhen you play Argentina, when you play
France and you can see the speed, the speed of play, the power
at which the best players. That'sthat's where we need to go because we
actually have the athletes in this country. We do, but we need to
now develop them in a way wherethey understand high level football. So you
(31:11):
know, I'm going to the Forgematch on Sunday night and I'm going to
start. You know, I'm gonnaget a chance to add live, to
see what games look like and tosee what the level is like, and
to see, you know, whatthe playing style is. And then I'll
be able to you know, evaluatethings and then try to find ways to
help push what I think the expectationsof high level football are. And then
(31:34):
Andrew Olivieri is named his twenty oneman squad for the CONKERCAFF Men's U twenty
Championships that we'll get underway next week. Canada will open against Honduras on Saturday,
July twentieth. They'll face the DominicanRepublic on Tuesday, July twenty third,
and close the group against El Salvadoron Friday, July twenty sixth.
The four semi finalists will qualify forthe twenty twenty five FIFA Men's U two
(32:00):
World Cup, which will be heldin Chile next year. So Canada needs
to emerge from their group and wina quarterfinal to secure their first World Cup
birth in nearly twenty years. Canadahosted the competition back in two thousand and
seven, but last qualified outright intwo thousand and five. So here's Olivieri
describing the group he's assembled and walkingus through some of the factors that go
(32:22):
into the selection process. Yeah,they're collectively they're a really good bunch.
And when I say good bunch,I'm not saying they're nice guys. I
mean they are. They're really nicepeople, good Canadians. But they're a
good group because they've got some drive, They've got some passion about them,
(32:42):
some edge about them. A lotof them have that edge of wanting to
really do well and push to anotherlevel and they do it in a positive,
productive way. Yeah, I thinkthat's probably the best way I could
describe them as a group. Butwe've also been very selective with those profiles,
the right character people in the group, So it's a little bit by
design, and it's a little bita blessing with how many of these types
(33:07):
of characters we have in the schooland talent wise, it's one of the
better groups I've worked with on theattacking end of things, like having those
attacking players available to bring the fightto other teams, to be able to
really put other teams on the backfoot. You know, the first two
twenty cycle that I was involved in, we have some great attacking players,
(33:30):
but they just weren't available. Imean, that was the generation of Fonzie
and Jonathan David and Liam Miller,and they were already in the men's teams,
so they were on a totally differenttrajectory. But this group, we
have a lot of the attacking talent, if not all, the attacking talent
available to us. So that's certainlysomething that we're going to lean on going
through these games. I've said itbefore in some of these calls, many
(33:52):
of you have been on it.There's some basic principles we work with,
and when you work your way downthe principles, there's no one straight line
for all the players. Everyone's kindof living a bit of those different realities
we're talking about. So playing atthe highest level possible playing like being in
form, actually playing, actually gettingminutes is obviously big factors. I won't
(34:15):
deny that that their experience internationally,but their experience within the group is obviously
really valuable, and some of theplayers are coming back because they're just really
important additions to the group, bothon and off the pitch. And another
one is certainly they're not just theirform, but in terms of how they
(34:35):
getting minutes, but how they're lookingin club. You know, some guys
are training regularly with the first teambut not really getting match minutes, so
we're trying to stay on top ofthat and get as much footage as we
can, even if it's in training. So there's a lot of different factors.
But in the end, you know, the additional depth of often comes
into play, and you know,sometimes we're fortunate to have real depth that
(35:00):
take all those boxes in some positionsand it's just you know, a luxury
to be able to pick between two, three, four players for two spots.
But in some positions we're fighting forto take those boxes. We're fighting
for a particular position where guys areactually playing regularly, So it's it's a
(35:21):
real mixed bag there. In termsof selecting a squad. It's finding that
balance and I'm not going to sayit's it's art, but it's definitely strong
considerations in a long process to beable to come down to I like to
say the best twenty one, butit's certainly the right twenty one is what
we need to select. And here'scoach Olivieri on the opposition Canada expects to
(35:45):
face, the preparation experience this sidehad down in Chile last month, and
the overall aim for the group inMexico. I try and take that comment
about impressive performances lightly because the caliberof the opponents in that first qualifying round
we was what it was. Weknew we were fighting as a higher seat
(36:07):
against those teams to get into thisfinal round, so we're really pleased,
I guess impressive with how we lookedagainst those teams, but we know,
like you're saying that the final qualifyinground is quite a different stage of teams,
quite a different caliber of teams.In fact, based on the rankings
we're going in as I guess thetwelfth ranked team out of twelve, even
(36:30):
though those are historical rankings not necessarilyindicative of these boys. But we have
to keep that in mind that weare I wouldn't use the term underdog,
but we are one of the lowerseeds going into this, and we have
to respect the fact that, youknow, Hoduras has been to World Cups
consistently at this level of salvad Oras a quality side that's been deeper into
(36:52):
knockout stages of this tournament. Andthen Dominican Republic, well, they're on
the rise as a federation, youknow, hosting major events, qualifying for
the Olympics, the last underd andtwenties. So we know that we're coming
in with a whole different degree ofchallenge, and that's why we brought the
boys to Chile last month and playedagainst some top caliber teams to prepare for
(37:14):
this. That was an interesting one. We came up against Chile in the
first match. We had arrived onlytwo days before, so it'd been quite
a while, we hadn't been together, and we did well considering you know,
we lost one nothing late in thegame, and then the funny thing
and when you get into regions likethat, you can't really rely on the
(37:37):
organization of events all the time,and they tried to cancel the tournament after
the first match, there was somemajor weather concerns flooding in the city,
so they actually tried to cancel therest of the games, and we knew
how crucial was to get down thereand play those three games. So we
managed to scramble away and to playit at a training venue against Ecuador and
(37:57):
Paraguay in the same day. Soit was lounging difficult, but it was
really good in terms of the caliberand and and giving the players some real
exposure to that that level of competition. So we ended up beating Paraguay in
the final match to one, andthen earlier in that day we played a
shorter match against Ecuador and we lostthat one to one. Qualify for World
(38:22):
Cup. Win matches. I thinkwin matches is the starting point. You
know, we have to win thatfirst game against m Duras. I mean
that's we don't want to look further. We're not gonna have the players to
look past that. We will beready beyond that, We'll be preparing the
team beyond that. But we knowwinning matches is vital and all fying for
(38:44):
the first World Cup. And Iguess what would be this player these players
lifetime? I don't think anyone theseplayers lifetime had experienced Canada qualified. I
think it was two thousand and fivewas the last time that Canada qualified for
World Cup. I know we hostedit in seven are you twenty? But
this will be the it's almost twentyyears since we've actually qualified. So that's
(39:07):
absolutely the objective. And building offof Marsha's comments, here's Andrew on young
players needing these experiences to push onand the value of experiences such as the
last Winter's You seventeen World Cup forseveral members of this squad. I'll let
go what's been said. I heardStephen's comments and Jesse and these players need
(39:29):
to get these experiences, and theexperiences they need is on the pitch and
they need to play. And thecrazy thing is they have the ability to
a lot of these boys can reallyperform and can really push a team to
another level. They just need time. And the beauty of youth players is
they don't need a lot of time. They just need to get that time
and those reps and the consistency ofopportunity, and you see the levels that
(39:52):
they can get to. You know, we've seen that, and a young
boy like Kadem Canny who came inand strugg for a couple of days,
you know, just getting used tothe rhythm, and then once he did,
it was really good for us throughthose games in Chile, and I
just expect more from him moving forward. But playing real professional, competitive minutes
(40:15):
with real consequence on the line ofmatches. I think that's what these young
Canadians need, and it's the youngCanadians that needed through the CPL. They
really do have a lot to givethis country. They just need to be
given the opportunity to get there.Yeah, then there's a headful. There's
about five six of them that werethere, and that's a big reason why
(40:37):
they're here. They take that experienceinto this and they've actually taken that experience
and they've used it to propel theircareers. You Know, we said going
into the U seventeen World Cup,and it's true every time we go in
with the U seventeen team is wecan prepare and we can have the players
ready for what's to come, butthey'll never be ready until they experience.
(40:59):
And so they experience against the caliber, the speed, the pressure, the
expectation of games. You know,in theory, it's not you could do
your best, but until you liveit, you don't really get to grow
from it. And now that theylive that you seventeen experience, like I
said, they've used that to propelthemselves onto the next stages and that's just
(41:19):
valuable for us. You know,some of the boys that didn't experience that
you seventeen because they're older now orsorry they're older and they couldn't like an
anual five generation, well a lotof them are getting that professional experience,
so they're getting some of that realityon a daily basis. But I think
you marry those two groups together andwe have a good group of players coming
in really clear with the standard andthen, like I mentioned before, going
(41:45):
in and playing against Chile and Ecuadorand Paraguay help build that experience. Thanks
to Canada Soccer for the audio fromboth Marsh and Olivieri. Thanks to you
for listening, and then keeping withthe grand tradition of Duayne just kind of
trailing off at the end, Thanksfor listening. To support the podcast,
(42:17):
go to Patreon dot com. Slashtwenty fourth minute
Welcome to Next Pod, your weeklylook at Canadian prospects with the One,
the Only, Doug Great, theWondrous James GRASSI also me Dwayne. I'm
Dwayne every time I hear that introfrom Dwayne and making you blush a little
(00:46):
bit. But James here, thanksfor joining us. I'm flying solo on
this Friday afternoon, so I'm goingto keep the chatter to a minimum.
We still have a few items onthe dock and for today. I recently
had the chance to speak with AmyWalsh about the women's development pathway. We
framed the conversation as three parts ofwhat the landscape looks like now, what
(01:07):
it looked like back in the day, and what it could look like in
the future. To my mind,the evolution to date has been from random
chance as Amy touches on when shespeaks about her career, to the more
formalized pathway of the provincial team,to the youth national teams, to the
national development centers and the college route. But now with the Northern Super League
(01:29):
on the horizon, having that fullfledged domestic upper expression of the game and
how those interactions will form and takeshape over the next decade will be one
of the undercurrents that shapes the futureplayer pool for the women's program. Lots
of very insightful points for Abe.We'll throw to that now and I'll come
back with smadio from Jesse Marsh andAndrew Olivieri as the men's you twenties look
(01:53):
to qualify for the World Cup.Hello, Hello, and welcome back to
the next part. I'm really pleasedto be joined on the show by CF
Montreal, collaborator and technical advisor ofthe women's program, and I think it's
fair to say the star of FreePrime the podcast, Amy Walsh, Amy,
Welcome to the show. It isfair to say that I'm the star
(02:14):
of that podcast. No, it'snot true at all. I love being
on with with those guys and I'mhappy to be on with you today.
Collaborator sounds very sinister to my anglophoneears, but give us a sense of
what your role is with with Montreal. I talk to them about that you
know about about using collaborator. Iwas like, I don't. I don't
(02:35):
think that's really the word that weneed to use in English, but I
think primarily it's collaboratar that's used infringe. I was like, advisors maybe
better suited and maybe what I seemyself doing, but I don't think that
the title really has anything to dowith the day to day and in a
lot of ways, I'm a spokespersonand ambassador for the club and always trying
(02:59):
to push equity on the women's side. I've actually had less to do with
the academy this year then say,and when I was first brought on in
the fall of twenty two. Ithink since the club officially took the women's
program the PF that was used tobe under the umbrella of Quebec Soccer,
and they did a fabulous job.I think that they've benefited from kind of
(03:23):
the in house resources that the clubhave in terms of, you know,
the HR and the technical staff andthe physios and everything that sort of surrounds
the first team and the reserve teamand what the boys have for the seventeens
and the fifteens on their side.They've certainly benefited from that. But I've
had kind of less to do withthe academy set up kind of this year,
(03:46):
at least this calendar year. Butit's been good and I think with
what's on the horizon for you know, this this pool of talent in Quebec,
which we know is really deep.Diana Mathieson kept talking about the need
for a team here and I knowthat we'll probably jump to that. I
don't want to jump ahead too much. I think it's really good and it
bodes well for the group that isat CF Montreal, but the group that's
(04:09):
coming up underneath them and pushing themon and will probably be the next generation
that comes to the program. Yeah, we got to see a few of
the stars from Montreal's U seventeen teamwith them, Humphries on her side with
Canada down in Mexico earlier this year, Leanna Tuasco and Juliet Perrou They of
course played in League one Quebec there. They're off to a good start and
(04:30):
we've got those inter provincial championships tolook forward to at the end of August.
Figures crossed. I'm sure Montreal willwill be there if things hold true
to form the top two. Theleague is interesting. It's split into two
groups, first and second place,crossover for semi for a semi final,
and there's a final between the twoand we'll figure out a winner there soon
enough. But as you mentioned,it's a really exciting time for women's professional
(04:56):
soccer in Canada, and you know, one of the reasons are the the
key reason that I wanted to getyou on the show today was to talk
a little bit about what we canexpect. And I thought a little look
at the lay of the land asit currently stands right now, what it
looked like back in the day,and what we wanted to look like in
the future, would be a greatway to do that. So, you
know, we've all been enjoying theunveiling of the three NSL clubs that we've
(05:19):
seen so far, we await thedetails on the other sides. Names and
crests and colors are all well andgood, but I want to dig a
little bit deeper onto what it willmean to have a professional expression of the
game here in Canada for these ladies. I think you know, to my
mind, one of the biggest changeson the men's side that we've seen in
the last twenty years is the threeMLS clubs and the academy structures that they
(05:43):
brought in place, the addition ofthe CPL clubs and the evolution of the
League one system, which has meantthat now players once that talent gets identified,
there are pathways for them to continueto follow as they go in search
of that professional level. So Ithink we'll start with what does the professional
pathway look like for a young womanat this moment right now? Before I
(06:06):
get into that, I just wantto say, when I grew up,
I mean, the landscape was very, very different and then for me personally,
like this is completely anecdotal, butI think it represents the struggle back
then. But what continues to bea struggle now in barriers in the way
of participation. Given you your yourrace, or your heritage or your socioeconomic
(06:30):
background. And as one of fivekids, my parents wouldn't have been able
to afford to put my sisters andI or my older brother for that matter,
in this high level of soccer nowbecause you have to pay so much
out of pocket in order to participate. So one of the biggest things that
we did as part of the clubwhen the PF like the REX program in
(06:54):
Montreal, came under the umbrella ofthe club was to remove the three thousand
dollars that the parents we're paying fortheir young children for their girls to participate.
So that's massive, and I thinkacross Canada, that remains a challenge.
I think it's certainly a challenge inthe Montreal area in the province of
(07:14):
Quebec to to make sure that you'remaking the sport accessible to all. So
hopefully when we're taking a look atthe pathway and what looks like in the
future, that that is a possibilitythat we can. You know, besides
the three academies that you mentioned offthe top, with the MLS franchises that
you know, CPLS are able tobuild out a little bit more. There's
(07:36):
a CPL franchise that comes to Quebecthat with the NSL franchise that's going to
be here, that you make thatpipeline more robust and you make sure that
it's an inclusive and an equitable oneand accessible one to all. So for
right now, the way that itlooks like is you have your PLSGQ,
which is kind of like the youthprogram is I guess would feed up into
(08:00):
the League one and then our fifteensplay in a U twenty one Triple A
circuit. But it's but there's summercircuits, right and they're done in conjunction
with sports study programs, which iswhat the fifteens and the seventeens as part
of that women's program that we haveat CF Montreal is part of the academy
toil in year round. So I'mnot sure what that looks like across the
(08:22):
country if there's a similar setup,but I'm guessing that there is. And
so you get that high specialization,you get players who are highly technical,
but then you also have the negativeto all that is when you specialize early,
perhaps you end up burning out,either mentally or physically, and you
get these injuries. But you know, I think that the support that's there,
(08:43):
I think that players will be guidedand have the proper resources in order
to stay healthy and hopefully in thegame for a long time. But a
problem with the fifteens and the seventeensat the club currently, and again it's
not just our club, is notjust our province. I think this is
Canada wide. Is what can weoffer the girls in order for it to
(09:05):
be truly equitable in the way ofcompetition. So when you were looking at
the league one season, you knowyou're not playing for longer than but is
it five months? Is that aboutright? If my math correct? So
what do we provide? Are theyproviding to them in the other months of
the year in order to make thatmore robust, in order to make it
(09:26):
more like what the boys get asa trickle down effect from MLS when they're
playing in MLS next. So,you know, is it up to MLS
to figure out something out in conjunctionwith NWSL, who are not mandated to
have academy teams themselves, so thatyou know, digs into a whole other
development problem there. I know theyit's not lacking for infrastructure, it's not
(09:48):
lacking for cash, but is theonus on MLS to develop something that is
equitable in the way of MLS next, but also for girls or can Canada
do something? And I think they'rethe inherent challenges of climate and end of
geography, but I think that weneed to do more to especially build up
(10:09):
that tier two so we have thepeak of the pyramid now in NWS or
NSL. And and by the way, like that Diana alluded to that,
like when you're googling NWSL, likethe happy accidents for people who are going
to end up on Northern Super League'swebsite. I think that's going to increase
the traffic in the eyeballs and sothat's good, and I just did it
there, misspeaking. But you havethe peak of the pyramid in finally having
(10:31):
a domestic pro league. But thendoes League One come and shore up that
Tier two or does League one endup being your tier three? And then
you create something that's going to comeunderneath those six pro franchises in the way
of a reserve team, like themuch the way you see it at the
club where they have their reserve teamin the absence of having an MLS next
(10:54):
Pro team, they have the reserveteam for CF Montreal playing in the League
one men's So I mean, that'scurrently what it looks like. I've probably
left some gaps in my description ofthat pipeline, but I think the biggest
challenge is developing the Tier two.But more than that is a circuit that
(11:15):
will allow these players to develop ona year round basis excellent. Yeah,
I guess I've sort of like I'mmuch more removed from this thing. You
So my view is sort of thatten thousand foot view, And so to
my mind, the biggest the biggestchange on the women's side has been sort
(11:35):
of the coalescing of the NBC programsand having not build better the provincial teams.
We're sort of in the first decadeof that. I think we're starting
to see some of the fruits ofit. But as you mentioned, the
regular issue is are they getting thechallenge that they need from week in week
out over that short season that youmentioned in order to really maximize the opportunity.
(11:58):
I know when t C left LeagueOne Ontario to go and join the
USSDA back in the day, GregVanny explained it as you know, they
were they would have a good matchesin League one Ontario week to week,
but every once in a while itwould it would be, you know,
once a month they'd have a goodgame and the rest of the games they
were winning five MIL and not reallystressing themselves. So by going state said
(12:22):
they were able to ensure that thatlevel of competition was more regular form,
and I think I think that's anissue for the NBCs right now. We've
seen Vancouver's or the White Cap sideout and BC be pretty dominant. They
get pushed a little bit the Ontarioside. You know, Alliance gave them
a run for their money last year, ended up winning the championship. But
they're always there or thereabouts. Uh, the Montreal side in League One,
(12:45):
Quebec at top of the table rightnow, and you know, I've seen
that they've had some struggles in theodd game, but more or less they're
expected to go out there. AndI League one Alberta, their their provincial
side is performing quite well given it'sa relatively new program as well. And
I think if I can just piggybackoff of something you're saying there, like
that the ten thousand foot view versuskind of being in the weeds, I
(13:07):
think you've seen a ceiling almost put, not necessarily on development, but in
terms of scouting and recruitment and whattype of players you're identifying. Because these
NDCs are beholden and are following ablueprint for development that's put into place by
Cindy Tie and Emma Humphries and toand above them Bev Priestman. Right,
(13:31):
they want to play a certain wayand they want to adhere to that philosophy
of play. That makes infinite sense. But in terms of a player development
outlook, we're pigeonholing ourselves. Soyou get a player like a Chloe La
Cass who is completely different from thetype of player that we're developing or a
(13:54):
player like Evelyn Vienne who is maybethe other side of the coin, who
is your true poacher, who isphysical, whose sniffs out goals can can
really upset teams because of just herdominance and her physicality and her out and
outpays going forward. And Olivia Smithwho is also a little bit different.
So that difference comes to complement andadd a variety to the attack and a
(14:18):
variety and how Canada perform and givethem I think, more of a chance
to excel on the world stage.And then if you bring that down to
the U twenties into the U seventeen, I mean, obviously there are challenges
in this country. There are challengesscouting. I think now with technology we
can kind of get fast that andcan you can identify players no matter where
(14:39):
they are in the world. Butas it comes to identifying players who are
Canadians, what NSL does and thepotential for developing academies is developing different outlooks,
different philosophies, different systems of play, and different players who are going
to excel and blossom within these andthen maybe these players never reach bev Priestman's
(15:03):
wider roster. Whoever the coach endsup being, but in terms of the
development across the country and making everythingelse grow and thrive and just nourish that
ecosystem of development, I think thatis what I'm most excited about for this
league. Yes, it's the topof the pyramid and you have to go
in, and it's going to bedecades long filling in the rest of the
(15:26):
gaps in that pyramid. But Ithink it's really promising and I'm really hopeful
for what that will bring because aplayer like me made a career out of
beating the crap out of players deepin that midfield and playing I was a
player who excelled the club and Icould score goals and my game was quote
unquote well rounded. But at theinternational level, I knew what my bread
(15:48):
and butter was, and it waswinning tackles, it was winning balls,
it was winning headers, it wasdoing the grunt work. And so is
there still a place for obviously aslightly more refined version of what Amy Walsh
was the next level, or atthe level just below, or a Chloe
La Cass or somebody that we haven'tyet seen, and that, I think
is what Canada does have, andwe just have to mine that talent properly
(16:12):
and make sure that we're identifying thosetypes of players. What was it like
for you coming up as a player, What did that pro pathway look like
for you? There wasn't a propathway right, Like I didn't even have
female role models like Jackie Joyner,Kersey and Charmaine Crooks was a big idol
(16:34):
of mine. I was a trackrunner. I specialize in eight hundred and
the fifteen hundred and that individual sportmentality and understanding how far I could push
my body and how I could operateslightly out of my comfort zone or be
completely out of my comfort zone andthen recognize what that felt like informed so
much of my life and success asa team sport athlete. So I always
(16:57):
talked to kids teams, be itboys or girls, about the benefit of
playing other sports, doing different thingsto compliment whatever it is that they want
to do, to help to supportthat. But that you know, learning
about yourself like sport is a greatway to do it. But you know,
(17:18):
I found out about the women's nationalteam by reading our local newspaper.
I grew up in Saint Bruno onthe south shore of Montreal, and Connie
and Moore in Kent were two sisterswho played for the women's national team in
the early nineties. And Canada's firstWorld Cup was not ninety one when we
had our first Women's World Cup sanctionedby FIFA, but in nineteen ninety five,
so it was probably you know,early nineties. And I read about
(17:41):
it and I was looked at mymom and I said, this is a
thing. I can play soccer formy country. And so I was maybe
fourteen. And then the irony isthat my first cap when I played in
nineteen ninety eight against China in Ottawa. I shared the field with my sister
Cindy, other sisters from Saint Brunowho then went on to represent their country.
(18:03):
So I mean there was no path. I mean I ended up on
the provincial team because I went froma double A setup in my town to
a triple A setup just a littlebit further out and in the space of
a winter time, so say sixmonths, I must have gone from like
a level two technical ability player tolike I was, I mean and again
(18:23):
and that that wasn't my my specialty. I wasn't the most talented or highly
technical player. But in six monthsplaying footsal in a gym I made.
I came along leaps and bounds andin terms of my my technique and my
shooting and just the confidence I hadin myself because I could always athlete my
way out of stuff. And thenthat sort of springboarded me to provincial levels,
(18:45):
to you twenty levels, and thenand then the national team. But
the big move for me was goingsouth and getting getting a scholarship to Nebraska
because I think now there's more opportunitiesand I think now, especially in Quebec
where sometimes language was a barrier.In the past, were coaches that I
know, I'm bouncing all over theplace, but coaches used to say,
what happened even to all the Quebecplayers, and what happened is that a
(19:07):
lot of them are Francophone. I'min a minority. Reeen Wilkinson's in the
minority as Anglos from this province wherethey didn't feel like they were well supported
or they had a family they wereclose to and they wanted to stay home.
But in the past, the coachessaid, well, if you're not
going to be toiling and playing inthe best circuit, which to them was
by far and away, the NCAAand They probably weren't wrong, but they
(19:30):
put their blinders out and they said, well, we're not going to look
at you, and they sort oftook themselves out of the national team setup
or out of consideration for the team, which was sad because there was so
much talent that's always really been herein this province. Going to the NCAA
at the time was the best decisionI'd ever made, because I was cut
from the full national team or thesenior team in ninety seven and that was
(19:51):
just, you know, I neededto face a little bit of adversity and
probably a good reality check for methat because McGill at the time in the
CiU like girls showed up and ithad never played competitively before and that was
the makeup of that team that year. So my level dipped considerably and face
the music wasn't good enough and thatsummer because at the time, the women's
(20:11):
national team we just got together duringthe summer months. It wasn't a year
round program. And then I wasa starter the following year after my first
full year at Nebraska, So thatwas the best decision I made. But
now in my role at c FMontreal is to show these young women that
that's not the BND be all endall. That's the expression to go to
(20:33):
the US that there's all kinds ofoptions now and that they too can dream
about about becoming a professional and theycan do it now in their own backyard.
So that's really exciting. But Ithink for young women's studies and their
education remain a priority, which isequally as important. But I also think
now that this league is finally announcedas kicking off next April, let these
(20:56):
young women dream about becoming pros likethe education piece will always be there.
They can do it online. ThatI think is something that's sort of built
in to the psyche of a womanathlete, that the education is an important
component of their growth and of theirdevelopment. But let's let them have that
dream. Because our young boys havehad it for a really long time.
(21:18):
It's about time that the girls haveit too. Definitely. Definitely. So
if I put you in Jodoje andin ten years the NSL clubs, I've
got their footprint down. They're startingto branch out into the community. There
lay in those understructures that we've talkedabout a little bit here. What does
it look like for you? Whatdo you want it to look like when
we're having this conversation in ten fifteenyears. Yeah, I think it would.
(21:42):
I think if you're starting, Ithink you want it to be bottom
up. So you know, whatis troubling now is that the youth structure
for girls is still very fragile.And my daughter now is you and so
have a fourteen year old son andtwins who were ten and my daughter and
(22:04):
my niece because my sister Bonnie hasa daughter who's the same age as as
my twins, so the three ofthem are together in You ten Boys,
and that's the best place for myniece and for my daughter currently. We
talked last year because it was anequitable offering in You nine. And I
know this is this is very anecdotalbecause it's my experience here in Quebec on
(22:26):
the south shore of Montreal at ourown little club and association. But I
imagine that that across the country.It's it's pretty similar. But we went
over to the girls practice and Isuggested a hybrid approach. The technical director
agreed, and they were a fewgirls who were who were decent players,
and I looked at them and Ithought, and I said to somebody else,
(22:48):
was volunteering. I said, Idon't want this to be an indictment
or a condemnation of what my club'sdoing, because again, the caveat I'll
put on it is that I'm sureit's people have similar experiences across the I
said, are a lot of thesegirls as it's their first year and they
said, oh no, they've beenplaying together. The majority of the group,
like the core group, have beentogether for two or three years,
(23:11):
and I think probably four or fivegirls out of twenty or twenty five could
receive and passable. And I said, this is unacceptable. Like my group,
the U nine boys group at thetime, I said, they're not
where they are as a group becausethey have my sister and I as coaches.
They should be at that level becausethe club is supporting them in the
(23:33):
right way and that they have thesupport, whether it's people volunteering their time
or like monitors who are there tohelp, because we have kids who are
either signed up to be referees orthey want to be involved in coaching later
on, and they come on andthey would help these groups because up until
that point we would do like fourstations and the kids would rotate through and
that was it. So we pulleda couple of the girls who are decent
(23:56):
players out for like a little competitiveteam. But this year remains the same
where like the cohorts of girls,you lose a lot of them, and
not only at nine to ten,but especially at the age of puberty.
So I think it's about looking atthat structure. Do you encourage them to
stay the same, like together,like a blend of you know, the
(24:18):
boys and the girls, and theyevolve together. My argument is yes,
but I also see the benefit tokeeping those cohorts together, sort of knitting
those friendships and that chemistry together sothat they continue to evolve together. But
I think it's about making that alot more robust and a lot more sound,
so that you can springboard them onas they go from seven a side
(24:41):
to nine a side to eleven asideand you have enough players to pull from,
because then when you get to likeregional things, you pull the best
players out of these setups. Thenthese young girls teams crumble because then they
not only don't have enough players,but you've taken the two or three players
that that drive the whole thing.You've removed them from the equation. So
(25:04):
I think there's a lot that wehave to address just in terms of participation
and the way that we're helping girlsto stay active and then have a bigger
pool from the recreational level or fromthe the you thirteen level, so that
once you get to elite and competitivethat there's a lot more of them to
(25:26):
build competition and to push each otheron and and and and to foster that
so that you're you're you're really workingoff something that that makes sense when it
comes time to go up and thenyou're the selection process and the scouting process.
But I think it's it's that it'sthe competition circuit that I talked about
earlier. So if you know thisleague is going to be sustainable, I
(25:47):
have confidence in that. I haveconfidence in Diana and confidence in the investors.
I think people are going to showup and show out for these teams
and for this league much the waywe've seen p WHL do it. So
I hope that over time there's thattop down approach where you know you're making
sure the pipeline is feeding into thosefranchises across the country, but that each
(26:08):
individual franchise is doing their due diligenceand they have a responsibility to making sure
that entire ecosystem is nourished, andthat that feeder system is created and is
going all the way down to thegrassroots, and is making sure that there's
not a siloed approach, but thateverybody is in it together to make sure
that the girls game and the women'sgame continues to be a priority in this
(26:33):
country. Yeah. I love theidea of building up as well as from
bottom up as well as top down, because so many times we see it
come just top down, and that'snot necessarily how things grow. You know,
things are unstable, people brought down. Emmy Walsh, you've been very
generous with your time today. Thankyou so much for joining us here,
(26:56):
and hopefully we can chat about thisagain in the future when we've that,
when we've got some more of thosestructures in place to look at. I
would love to do that. Thanksfor having me, And if anything about
was generous in my time, it'sjust because it was very long winded.
But I love to chat about soccer, and especially women's soccer, so thanks
for having me. A huge thankyou to Amy for joining the show.
(27:19):
I always love hearing from people whoare more involved in the day to day
conversations about development, because there's alwaysa few points of emphasis that have escaped
my attention that they highlight Amy's Amy'sconversation was full of those, and Dwayne
and I will talk about those alittle bit more next week, but for
now, Jesse Marsh had a momentafter the semifinal against Argentina to speak to
(27:42):
the media back here in Canada,and he was asked about some of the
bigger picture angles around the national team, and he took the opportunity to urge
that Canadian Soccer accelerate the development arcsof younger and younger players, put more
responsibility on them, challenge them,and even with so far as to suggest
that the CPL should consider a rulethat mandates the number of young players on
(28:06):
the pitch, not just the minutesas we have with the you twenty one
rule currently, but a spot ortwo or three or whatever the number ends
up being on the field for theseyoung players. So here's a few snippets
from those conversations with Mark. Yeah, too many of these players development arcs
as have launched at too late anage right, so at the youth level,
(28:33):
and this is both the youth nationalteam level, and club level and
academy level. We've got to demandmore out of the players. We've got
to demand more physically, We've gotto demand more mentally. We've got to
have more personalities in our players.Too. Many of the players here are
too quiet, you know. Andit's not that they're not intelligent, because
they are, but they're not demandedto be more and physically, mentally,
(28:59):
intellectually. We've got to find away to develop players faster, right,
and the best, you know,Like, there's a really good chance that
Luke de Fougerol starts on Saturday andhe's eighteen, but he doesn't play like
an eighteen year old. And Ihaven't treated him like an eighteen year old.
I've demanded a lot out of himevery day. He's trained really well
(29:22):
every day, and I think he'sbeen one of the best performers in camp,
and he's gotten much better over time. And this is what you know.
Even when I references at one point, but when I first came,
people would tell me, oh,he's young, and I'd say how old
is he and they would say twentyfour twenty five, and I would say,
that is not young, Okay,that's established professional level. And so
(29:45):
that's one of the biggest things iswe need to accelerate the performance arc the
development paths of these players, andwe need to demand more out of the
young players in the country. AndThat'll be an emphasis of of whether I'm
doing coaching clinics, whether I'm doingsymposiums, whether I'm meeting with coaches,
whether I'm meeting with clubs. We'vegot to find a way to demand more
(30:07):
out of the young players. Andwhen I say young, I mean like
fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, nottwenty four to twenty five, twenty six
should be playing as many young playersas they possibly can should be There should
be rules for me and we haveto go through all this, but there
should be rules about how many youngplayers are on the pitch. And again,
when I mean young players, Idon't mean twenty two year olds,
(30:30):
I mean seventeen, eighteen, nineteenyear olds. There needs to be a
way to put more responsibility on youngplayers, to challenge them for what the
highest standards of games are. Imean, this has been the biggest thing
that I've tried to do with thisplayer pool that I have. It's more
sprinting, more running, more initiatingcontact, more winning duels more like understanding
(30:51):
what the highest level is. Andwhen you play Argentina, when you play
France and you can see the speed, the speed of play, the power
at which the best players. That'sthat's where we need to go because we
actually have the athletes in this country. We do, but we need to
now develop them in a way wherethey understand high level football. So you
(31:11):
know, I'm going to the Forgematch on Sunday night and I'm going to
start. You know, I'm gonnaget a chance to add live, to
see what games look like and tosee what the level is like, and
to see, you know, whatthe playing style is. And then I'll
be able to you know, evaluatethings and then try to find ways to
help push what I think the expectationsof high level football are. And then
(31:34):
Andrew Olivieri is named his twenty oneman squad for the CONKERCAFF Men's U twenty
Championships that we'll get underway next week. Canada will open against Honduras on Saturday,
July twentieth. They'll face the DominicanRepublic on Tuesday, July twenty third,
and close the group against El Salvadoron Friday, July twenty sixth.
The four semi finalists will qualify forthe twenty twenty five FIFA Men's U two
(32:00):
World Cup, which will be heldin Chile next year. So Canada needs
to emerge from their group and wina quarterfinal to secure their first World Cup
birth in nearly twenty years. Canadahosted the competition back in two thousand and
seven, but last qualified outright intwo thousand and five. So here's Olivieri
describing the group he's assembled and walkingus through some of the factors that go
(32:22):
into the selection process. Yeah,they're collectively they're a really good bunch.
And when I say good bunch,I'm not saying they're nice guys. I
mean they are. They're really nicepeople, good Canadians. But they're a
good group because they've got some drive, They've got some passion about them,
(32:42):
some edge about them. A lotof them have that edge of wanting to
really do well and push to anotherlevel and they do it in a positive,
productive way. Yeah, I thinkthat's probably the best way I could
describe them as a group. Butwe've also been very selective with those profiles,
the right character people in the group, So it's a little bit by
design, and it's a little bita blessing with how many of these types
(33:07):
of characters we have in the schooland talent wise, it's one of the
better groups I've worked with on theattacking end of things, like having those
attacking players available to bring the fightto other teams, to be able to
really put other teams on the backfoot. You know, the first two
twenty cycle that I was involved in, we have some great attacking players,
(33:30):
but they just weren't available. Imean, that was the generation of Fonzie
and Jonathan David and Liam Miller,and they were already in the men's teams,
so they were on a totally differenttrajectory. But this group, we
have a lot of the attacking talent, if not all, the attacking talent
available to us. So that's certainlysomething that we're going to lean on going
through these games. I've said itbefore in some of these calls, many
(33:52):
of you have been on it.There's some basic principles we work with,
and when you work your way downthe principles, there's no one straight line
for all the players. Everyone's kindof living a bit of those different realities
we're talking about. So playing atthe highest level possible playing like being in
form, actually playing, actually gettingminutes is obviously big factors. I won't
(34:15):
deny that that their experience internationally,but their experience within the group is obviously
really valuable, and some of theplayers are coming back because they're just really
important additions to the group, bothon and off the pitch. And another
one is certainly they're not just theirform, but in terms of how they
(34:35):
getting minutes, but how they're lookingin club. You know, some guys
are training regularly with the first teambut not really getting match minutes, so
we're trying to stay on top ofthat and get as much footage as we
can, even if it's in training. So there's a lot of different factors.
But in the end, you know, the additional depth of often comes
into play, and you know,sometimes we're fortunate to have real depth that
(35:00):
take all those boxes in some positionsand it's just you know, a luxury
to be able to pick between two, three, four players for two spots.
But in some positions we're fighting forto take those boxes. We're fighting
for a particular position where guys areactually playing regularly, So it's it's a
(35:21):
real mixed bag there. In termsof selecting a squad. It's finding that
balance and I'm not going to sayit's it's art, but it's definitely strong
considerations in a long process to beable to come down to I like to
say the best twenty one, butit's certainly the right twenty one is what
we need to select. And here'scoach Olivieri on the opposition Canada expects to
(35:45):
face, the preparation experience this sidehad down in Chile last month, and
the overall aim for the group inMexico. I try and take that comment
about impressive performances lightly because the caliberof the opponents in that first qualifying round
we was what it was. Weknew we were fighting as a higher seat
(36:07):
against those teams to get into thisfinal round, so we're really pleased,
I guess impressive with how we lookedagainst those teams, but we know,
like you're saying that the final qualifyinground is quite a different stage of teams,
quite a different caliber of teams.In fact, based on the rankings
we're going in as I guess thetwelfth ranked team out of twelve, even
(36:30):
though those are historical rankings not necessarilyindicative of these boys. But we have
to keep that in mind that weare I wouldn't use the term underdog,
but we are one of the lowerseeds going into this, and we have
to respect the fact that, youknow, Hoduras has been to World Cups
consistently at this level of salvad Oras a quality side that's been deeper into
(36:52):
knockout stages of this tournament. Andthen Dominican Republic, well, they're on
the rise as a federation, youknow, hosting major events, qualifying for
the Olympics, the last underd andtwenties. So we know that we're coming
in with a whole different degree ofchallenge, and that's why we brought the
boys to Chile last month and playedagainst some top caliber teams to prepare for
(37:14):
this. That was an interesting one. We came up against Chile in the
first match. We had arrived onlytwo days before, so it'd been quite
a while, we hadn't been together, and we did well considering you know,
we lost one nothing late in thegame, and then the funny thing
and when you get into regions likethat, you can't really rely on the
(37:37):
organization of events all the time,and they tried to cancel the tournament after
the first match, there was somemajor weather concerns flooding in the city,
so they actually tried to cancel therest of the games, and we knew
how crucial was to get down thereand play those three games. So we
managed to scramble away and to playit at a training venue against Ecuador and
(37:57):
Paraguay in the same day. Soit was lounging difficult, but it was
really good in terms of the caliberand and and giving the players some real
exposure to that that level of competition. So we ended up beating Paraguay in
the final match to one, andthen earlier in that day we played a
shorter match against Ecuador and we lostthat one to one. Qualify for World
(38:22):
Cup. Win matches. I thinkwin matches is the starting point. You
know, we have to win thatfirst game against m Duras. I mean
that's we don't want to look further. We're not gonna have the players to
look past that. We will beready beyond that, We'll be preparing the
team beyond that. But we knowwinning matches is vital and all fying for
(38:44):
the first World Cup. And Iguess what would be this player these players
lifetime? I don't think anyone theseplayers lifetime had experienced Canada qualified. I
think it was two thousand and fivewas the last time that Canada qualified for
World Cup. I know we hostedit in seven are you twenty? But
this will be the it's almost twentyyears since we've actually qualified. So that's
(39:07):
absolutely the objective. And building offof Marsha's comments, here's Andrew on young
players needing these experiences to push onand the value of experiences such as the
last Winter's You seventeen World Cup forseveral members of this squad. I'll let
go what's been said. I heardStephen's comments and Jesse and these players need
(39:29):
to get these experiences, and theexperiences they need is on the pitch and
they need to play. And thecrazy thing is they have the ability to
a lot of these boys can reallyperform and can really push a team to
another level. They just need time. And the beauty of youth players is
they don't need a lot of time. They just need to get that time
and those reps and the consistency ofopportunity, and you see the levels that
(39:52):
they can get to. You know, we've seen that, and a young
boy like Kadem Canny who came inand strugg for a couple of days,
you know, just getting used tothe rhythm, and then once he did,
it was really good for us throughthose games in Chile, and I
just expect more from him moving forward. But playing real professional, competitive minutes
(40:15):
with real consequence on the line ofmatches. I think that's what these young
Canadians need, and it's the youngCanadians that needed through the CPL. They
really do have a lot to givethis country. They just need to be
given the opportunity to get there.Yeah, then there's a headful. There's
about five six of them that werethere, and that's a big reason why
(40:37):
they're here. They take that experienceinto this and they've actually taken that experience
and they've used it to propel theircareers. You Know, we said going
into the U seventeen World Cup,and it's true every time we go in
with the U seventeen team is wecan prepare and we can have the players
ready for what's to come, butthey'll never be ready until they experience.
(40:59):
And so they experience against the caliber, the speed, the pressure, the
expectation of games. You know,in theory, it's not you could do
your best, but until you liveit, you don't really get to grow
from it. And now that theylive that you seventeen experience, like I
said, they've used that to propelthemselves onto the next stages and that's just
(41:19):
valuable for us. You know,some of the boys that didn't experience that
you seventeen because they're older now orsorry they're older and they couldn't like an
anual five generation, well a lotof them are getting that professional experience,
so they're getting some of that realityon a daily basis. But I think
you marry those two groups together andwe have a good group of players coming
in really clear with the standard andthen, like I mentioned before, going
(41:45):
in and playing against Chile and Ecuadorand Paraguay help build that experience. Thanks
to Canada Soccer for the audio fromboth Marsh and Olivieri. Thanks to you
for listening, and then keeping withthe grand tradition of Duayne just kind of
trailing off at the end, Thanksfor listening. To support the podcast,
(42:17):
go to Patreon dot com. Slashtwenty fourth minute
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