January 18, 2025 • 58 mins
NightVision historian James Martin returns to talk about many mysteries of southern France, including a time when groups of disparate cultures and belief systems co-existing in peace and harmony despite their obvious differences.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Night Vision Vision.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Following clues left by our ancestors, we unbury the past
to reveal a knowledge of unfathomable value, putting us just
a little closer to our own true birthrights. From the
secret history of a possible bloodline of Jesus Christ, to
secret history of America's founders, to the secret history of
(00:25):
extraterrestrial interaction on our planet. Here to bring light to
the night. Your host for night Vision Radio Renee Barnett.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to night Vision or welcome to
night Vision. If this is your first time, hope it
won't be your last. Today we've got a great show plan.
Our wonderful historian James Martin is back to rejoin us.
We haven't seen him in a while, so we're very
excited about that. But let's just get started. Let's bring
(01:07):
James on right now, and let's don't waste any more time.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Hey, you hi, if you want good to be back
for me. It feels like it was just yesterday, but
I think it was. It wasn't.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
It's been a lot for a while.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
It's you know, I've missed it. But you know, we
were going to talk about some of the mysteries that
surround that certain area of southern France where we like
to go and and spend time and look around and dig.
And especially you, you're the you're the best digger, not literally,
(01:45):
but into the records and into the archives to find.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Little known gems, you know.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I mean, I'm thinking of one particular property that we
knew about that was for sale, uh, that is being
advertised by the owner and the realtor of the immobilia
as being medieval built. But you were able to identify
that that that that building was actually built uh in
(02:15):
the eight in the eight hundred, somewhere in the ninth century.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Uh. And to this day, no one knows that except
for you and.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Me and a little handful of people, I guess, but now,
but nobody knows what we're talking which location we're talking about.
But that was quite clever. And I remember the time
that you found some kind of record that made you
go out and look out on the ground and you
actually discovered this ruin of a Moorish castle that you know,
(02:49):
was distinctly different, you know, type of building than than
the other ones that were used to see around there.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
So it was very identifiable.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But I've never heard of that anywhere in the area,
and when I mentioned it to people even to this day,
they're baffled by that. So we'll see what else we
can turn up today. But before we get started on
all that, I like to remind people your book that
(03:21):
you co authored along with Tim Wallis Murphy is available
for sale. It's called Uncharted or Rediscovered History of Voyage
Voyages to the Americas before Columbus, and we all know.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
That there were lots of those, or at least.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
We do now we didn't for a long time. And
even more exciting than that, James has been putting together
a trilogy of the entire history of the Knights Templar,
beginning way before the establishment, the circumstances that were present
(03:59):
to caused them to be established, and on through till
the time that they were so called disbanded in thirteen
oh seven and went their separate ways.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Where did they go? That sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
So James has been looking into all that, and I
guarantee this is going to be like the definitive history
on the Knights Templar. This will be all you need
and there will be three volumes. The first one is
going to be Order of Magnitude and the second one is,
(04:35):
oh got them out of order?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Are like the downfall of the Knight's Templar, And then
what could be after that?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Last orders all the impacts of the knights Templar which
have been.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Very strong.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
And you know, there's something about the Knight's Templar that
really captivates the imagination of a very everyone, and sometimes
we kind of twist it into our own version of
who we wish that they were.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
But on their own and their.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Own real history, they were just such an interesting group
of warrior monks.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
And I think there is.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Something, you know, very romantic about that idea that they had,
you know, basically given up all their worldly goods to
serve a higher purpose. And I wonder what we'll find
out about where they went.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I know some of it. I know some of them
ended up in Spain because they were.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, and actually you know being in writing this, so
it's one of these order of magnitude. Well, because it's
me starts well at the beginning, to give the some
places start at the end of the book. This lays
the foundation for a lot of the myths that we accept,
(06:08):
all these lots of stuff about the merror of engines,
for example, we're just talking before the before the show
about the merit of engines, and actually they didn't really
have that much of an impact, but we look at
them who the caroll engines were then after them, and
also where some of the origin of some of the
relics that the templars were it was supposed that they
(06:31):
had access or knowledge of, including and I will give
a little bit of a tidbit about this that it
might be. And like I said, this is more for
questioning rather than you know, there's an answer, because it
just struck me that the rumors of the night finding
(06:52):
an object in the Middle East was a bit unusual
because back when the Templars were established, and I mean
that long before or the number of so called relics
that were being found suggests there was quite an active
black market for you know, forgeries and others, you know, perhaps,
but it did occur to me that, you know, if
(07:13):
you wanted to have stranglehold of the of the church
of the time, it would perhaps be more likely if
indeed they found anything that perhaps they found a copy
of some of the Gnostic texts or refound them actually,
and that in itself would have been exceptionally explosive. We
(07:36):
know that they venerated maybe Magdalene for example, it could
very well be then that they found her gospel.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Yeah, you know, speaking of those texts, you know, obviously
you know, the Naga Mighty Library or the Gnostic Gospels,
as as they're known, you know, we're not known for
a long time.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I think it was in the nineteen four when they're
actually discovered. But if they're the if they're the Gnostic
Gospels and the templars found them, then obviously the Church
wouldn't want that known. And you know that's probably another
(08:23):
thing that went down into the Secret Archives. But I
heard recently and you probably know the answer to this,
that the Vatican is in process right now of digitizing
the Secret Archives, and someone was hinting that it was
(08:44):
going to be available.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
I can't see that.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I can see them digitizing it, you know, for safe keeping,
but I don't see them making that available to the
public when they've been so precious about it. You know,
even you know, cultural items that they've taken from people
like Native American tribes, they don't even allow the tribe
(09:09):
to view those objects. And that's their sacred objects, that's
their Art of the Covenant, you know, basically, but the
Vatican gathered all those ceremonial items up and keep them secret. Well,
number one, why and number two, if they've done that,
(09:29):
then why are they now just going to turn it over?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
The full experiment with that one is, if if it
was a Vatican researcher you found the Nakamadi library, would
we know about it? M And if you're thinking the
answers no, then that should give you off idea as
to where my view is on digitizing. Of course, I
think there will be documents that are digitized that we
(09:54):
do know about right available, I'm sure with a small
fee and all that, right, But I can't see some
of the other things. I mean, there are things out
there that could have been discovered that we don't know
about that. There's lots of things like that. Yeah, I
can't see. I mean, we give you an idea at
(10:17):
the time of this show, so if you're watching in
the future, I hope the future is right. But yeah,
there's there's an issue in the UK at the minute
around access to documents relating to Queen Elizabeth and her
husband Philip, that there's an arbitrary one hundred year prohibition
(10:38):
and accessing any of the texts and diaries and other
such things for what reason exactly, And that's prompted quite
a large debate. So I'm not you know, I'm not
pessimist in this way. I mean, the Nagamadi Library, I
have to say, you know, it was found and some
(10:59):
of the square were burns because it was seen as
it was just firewood. So why we have probably lost
some things. However, I don't believe that they are the
only copies. It would be exceptionally unusual for to be
the only. So the earth is a large place. You
(11:20):
never know where they might end up. I mean, for
that moment it was a cave I think, I think
it was. It was something like forty six forty seven.
It was after the Second World War around them, and yeah,
you never do know, but yes, you know, continuing on
the book where I am at the minute is just
(11:44):
a few tantalizing chapters too, in fact, from concluding and
I just writing and get them in a chapter on
the Vikings, And of course the reason for that is
we know that Naus really give them their proper name.
People knew them as the Norse. Viking. Is a job
title meaning export trade of that kind of thing. But
(12:08):
we know some of the families of the nurse ended
up in the temple order. But crucially there's a possibility
of a proto templar order in Norse culture, and these
were called the yons Vikinger, and these were were essentially
religious officials with swords, probably with axes, I've got to say,
(12:34):
And there is a there is a scholarly debate as
to whether they existed, but it is such an unusual
thing to make up and for what purpose that you
know that certainly the idea of worrying monks, there are
some examples of them in history. William of Gellon definitely,
you know, he was a monk with the sword. In
(12:54):
the end, I suppose there are some flavors of something
like the templar before them, that maybe these ideas coalesced
family lines and through other connections into their founding. But
I have to say, you know, I will let everyone
(13:16):
know when the book is complete. It's been a lot
of research, well over three hundred four hundred source material.
So if you if that's what gets you you up
in the morning, you'll be able to read where I've
either given my opinion. But mostly this is from academic sources,
(13:37):
and there's some things in there that say, well, I'll
give you a bit of an exclusive on this one.
So I remember attending a conference with Tim Wallis Murphy
and there was I think Henry Lincoln was there to
be honest as well, and there's a discussion around Jewish templars,
(13:58):
and this very savious historian Sadna nothing like this. They
were a Catholic order. But what's unusual is I have
found plenty of examples in fact, but one family of brothers,
a guy called he was a rabbi actually called ben Eliza,
(14:21):
who gave donated will inglein freely as the transaction account.
And this is the sort of glorified receipt I have,
and his signature, crucially that survived all of these hundreds
of years. He donated his farm. I can even tell
you the name of the farm. It was called Prey
(14:42):
alder Bran, and Alderbran is a star, So I'm not
too sure what the reason for the name of the
farm was, if indeed it has anything to do with
a star, which is I think an Arabic name. So
that would suggest that you the Jewish Jasper had perhaps
bothered some knowledge around the heavens perhaps, but gave this
(15:06):
over to the Templars at their perceptory at Duzon, which
was their very large perceptory just outside of Carcasson. You
can't really see too much of it today, but the
perimeter of that town is vast and was the perimeter
of their perceptory. But you can see if you wish
(15:29):
to go to Douzon, which is spelt I suppose, if
you look at it dozen do O U Z E
n s you can see the Templar church still, the
one that was constructed by them. So yeah, all of
this sort of oh no, they didn't have any relationship
(15:49):
with it with the Jewish Jasper or anyone who was
an endurement of Islam or in fact Cathars or anything
like that is actually not quite the case. And I
think when we go to extremes and say that didn't happen,
couldn't have happened, you then leave yourself open to an
attack or to a bit of evidence saying well what
(16:11):
about this? Then how do you you know? So yeah,
that's remember.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
You revealing on this show in recent months that you
know you had identified at least one Sufi templar, and
so I mean there you have. You know, certainly if
if a Sufi might be a templar, then certainly a
(16:40):
Jewish person might be a templar.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
You've got, as I say, the template order wasn't just
the night, and you had people interacting in the Middle East,
and in fact the Long Dock, the mysterious area around
well then the chateau and further afield which had a
(17:03):
large Jewish dasporo. And not just that, there was also
Moors who were living who yes, the armies have been
kicked out, but we know that there's a In fact,
it's a now a hamlet bought, a hamlet called Maori
near the chateau, part of the town of Kueza. It's
(17:24):
I think three houses or three farms. Actually is named
after the month. So we know that this is a
big melting pot. In of course, if you've got people
who are working for you with their own beliefs and
interpretations in a very tolerant area, of course some of
their ideas are going to bleed through. Think about what
happens when you're in work. You meet people who've got
(17:46):
all sorts of strange and wonderful ideas and sometimes something
will inspire you.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
It happens all the time, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
You mentioned chateau, and I think we would be reminisce
if we did not mention that we are today seventeen January.
So that's today where the blue apples appear at midday
in the church at Renal Chateau, when the sun reached
(18:18):
it's a certain spot and shines through the window and
it illuminates the on the on the wall across, So
it's a little phenomenon. I'm sure there are people up
there to view it, and I have not been there
on the seventeenth.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Of January ever. Have you ever been over there on
January seventeenth?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I have, and it is a few years ago, and
it is bitterly cold, and there's not much at all open,
but it's quite busy. I think some of the restaurants
open exclusively for that data oh really to feed and
water weary travelers who've come to see a light show. Regretfully,
(19:01):
when I went, it was quite cloudy, overcast, and the
best thing that was shining with the lights in the
chapel itself, so.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
I see, yeah, you know, I've never been there when
it's happened.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I've seen pictures of it, of course, and although they
call it blue apples, it's really multi colored, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Yeah, and like a rainbow.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I have to say, well, give a bit of sunlight
and you will see some of the some of the
light show. I suppose, you know, other days. But yeah,
I remember having a look into that. You know, why
is it called this? And there's not really too much
knowledge other than it's part of the mystery. There is
(19:48):
a celebration of some very purply blue looking apples outside
of Yourna, and there's a very similar very similar in fact,
that looks like the sistory of the tour Magdala.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
It does, yeah, you know so.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And we know that Sonya liked visiting, so I suppose
he had some inspiration from the city of Jerona across
the border in Catalonia, in well, northern Spain, but you
know Catalonia and Orphice. So yeah, it's you know, the
(20:27):
seventeenth if you if you're into the Rendlesht mystery and
Sonia in Orphice. Of course, it's a bit like the
national holiday for Rennies, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
So it is it is, that's so funny because I
didn't even realize it until we sat down and I
look up in the corner of.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
My screen is January seventeenth. Now, what were some of
the other things that occurred?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
I know.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
The priest bege Sonia fell ill on January seventeenth. He
didn't die until some days later, but he fell.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Well, what were some of the other things.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And isn't it a particular feast day on January seventeenth?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, in terms of feast days, there's one for free
day of the year. Yeah, you do look at the seventeenth.
So I think Sonya died ultimately a few days later,
but I believe it was the day that Jalie was murdered.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
No, No, that was that was Halloween All Hallows Eve
was dially murder.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
But there were other associations with that. I'm going to
have to before I open my mouth the next time.
I'm going to have to refresh because there were quite
a few things that I remember that we're tied to
January seventeenth.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, it's remember. Dates tend not to jump out at
me too much, but I do remember the seventeenth. Oh God,
there you go again. But they tend not to jump
out at me for various reasons that you know some
(22:17):
yea we fell ill, yes, but he didn't die until
you know, and all of that. But yeah, very interesting,
you know, the sort of in the old calendar, the
eydes of eyes of the month, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, so that was going on today up and run
on Chateau and down the hill in Queza. There were
lots of hammering and wiring and all kinds of things
going on as we renovate a property that we've just
obtained to put in a center, research and tourist center
(22:59):
in Queza.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
It's a great location because it's right.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
On the D one eighteen or the route to Parrenees,
so it's kind of a well traveled road. You really
have to pass by it to go anywhere in the area.
If you're going to the sea, or if you're going
back up toward Lemoux or Carcassan, you got to pass
by our place.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
So I'll be letting people know when it's actually open for.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Business and hopefully some of you can make it make
your way over there and fall in love just like
we have with that incredible place.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
But I'll be spending a lot more time there.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Well, I look forward to I believe you've had the
heating and sould.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
We got the heaters came in yesterday and Tylo, our
wonderful electrician, had our already hung the the brackets. They're
wall heaters, which is kind of the way to go
in these old houses sometimes, and so they came in
yesterday and I'm they may be in now.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
He was hanging them.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
And he also had to you know, connect them and everything.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
And then he's putting in some lighting.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
In the in the first floor what in France is
called the first floor. In the United States we would
call that the second floor. It was kind of dark
corridors and things. So he's installed some nice spotlights and
things like that, and some.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
We'll make a European out of you. Yet, yes, ground floor,
then first.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Floor, that's right, that's right. I have learned it. But
I do clarify it for my American friends.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Because I don't confuse in the lift to just put
it that way. Many many years going calendar, getting very
confused why I couldn't find my hotel room, and it
just didn't make any sense to them until some polightly said, oh, well,
here we call that, I think, right, the third floor
(25:20):
or something like that.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
It's very confusing.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I know when I was looking at you know, not recently,
but a few years ago at property listings, I would
always get confused when they would say first floor. Well,
to me, the first is the one you walk into
the ground floor.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Why wouldn't that be the first floor?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
But because when in Rome, and then you know what,
very very nearby is the village of Companion, sir Ode,
where our wonderful friends Joe and Trev live. Jill has
her gorgeous little itelier there, So if you go to
(26:01):
a Campanion, make.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Sure you stop in.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Hopefully she'll be open, and but you can certainly make
an appointment.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
If she's not.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
But the big news and Companion is that they are
building or putting in a Templar museum.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
And you know, as many of you know.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
There's that wonderful round Templar church and the museum is
actually in a structure that's part of that historical building.
So it's going to be really nice. And you guys
have heard me brag about James's Templar map that has
(26:43):
so many sites to these marks that have been confirmed
and if they're not confirmed, that information is there also,
But it's a great interactive map, so hopefully we'll see
that in the Templar Museum. It would be a wonderful
interactive big screen thing to have on the wall there,
(27:05):
so and I'm sure that don't want to have it,
and I want to have a map in the center
as well, and I'm thinking, I don't know, maybe we
should have the entire map in the center and maybe
just the area around Campania. No, I don't know, in
the other one, or would people I think maybe since
(27:26):
people are going to be coming from around the world,
maybe they probably need the whole into.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
They could purchase a printed copy and mark off all
of the Tumbel buildings that they've been to. I know.
That's pretty much what I've been doing. And I think
it take I mean, I think plotted in them in
these thousands of these places across you over, really plotted
(27:57):
them on Google. And this took a night. It was
overnight to do this, but it plotted out a root
the most efficient route between all of the places, and
I think it worked out that it takes about eighty
three years to drive to them all.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
When you think, yeah, yeah, that's a pilgrimage, and I'm
probably a bit too late to have to start now,
but oh well.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
There are just so many, I mean, and you're marking
each site with a little red template cross ye, and
in some areas it's just solid red because there are
just so many sites.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
So it's well, they were absolutely concentrated. So there are
some gaps still, yeah, and that doesn't mean that there's
nothing there, It just means I've not had the chance
to plot them well. Most certainly, what you can see
is the largest concentration of perceptories are really within the
(29:09):
Long Dock itself. And you know, many many people have
speculated as to why, and I think it's got quite
a lot to do with the fertility of the land,
the trade. It was very prosperous place until the French
invaded under the King Philip the Fourth invaded the south
(29:34):
and basically stole the land, and now the area is
known as one of the poorest in all of France.
The Order and the Long Dock of the old region
called the Long Dock, whereas one point it was the
most prosperous in what we would call today is France,
and all that, all of that was built upon toleration
(29:56):
and a fusion of cultures. I mean, if it really
A said this a few times, and I said this recently.
If it wasn't for the Crusades, the Albergensene Crusades against
the Cathars, the Renaissance would have occurred one hundred, one
hundred and fifty years earlier than when it did in
(30:18):
northern Italy. And of course plague didn't really help either.
There are other factors, but genuinely, the we had in
the area. There's an obscure person no one knows really
what his name is, but something called the Master of Cabastiny.
(30:39):
And we know where Cabastny is, that's just near Perpignon.
But his construct he was sought out from northern Italy,
right the way across the coast, from northern Italy, right
the way through fran into Spain. We know next to
nothing about him or indeed her bought there are you know,
(31:04):
you can see the what we call the Devil Church,
for example, of the sculptures the ancient sculptures should say
from him, and you just think that it's a remarkable
amount of detail that's gone into sculpting that you really
don't see outside of the area, and he was from
(31:26):
the Longer Duck, as I say, from So it just
gives an idea of the cultural exports as well, that
you know, this our mysterious place in the in the
the sun, as it were, Yeah, was providing to everyone else,
and it includes knowledge and and everything else.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Today, you know, of course, it's it's a little different.
But I tell you, when I'm there, I do have
the sense that it's sort of like you do your
business and I'll do my business and we'll you know,
we'll get along just fine. It's there's still that sort
of acceptance, at least in my opinion, not probably not everywhere,
(32:16):
but and probably some villages or probably have a different
personality than others, a little bit more accepting. But I
don't know, I really like the feeling there because I
was telling someone the other day, it's not like the
United States, where you get worshiped because you've got tons
(32:37):
of money. You know, people don't really care about that there,
and if you do have a lot of money, it
just might make them a little more suspicious of you,
not fawning all over you like we do here in
the US. And it's like it's you know, what's more
(32:59):
important to them is you know, the kind of person
you are, your character, but also if you've got an
interesting story, interesting background, you know, that's worth much more
to them than if you add a lot of money.
Because if you really think about it, why do we
worship the rich? I mean they're not paying my rent?
You know, so it's like, what are we worshiping them for?
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Your rent's probably paying them exactly exactly. That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Maybe one of these days we're going to figure out
that it's not the left and the right, it's the.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
It's the working poor and the rich elite. Okay, we
won't get political.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Well, I wonder why robin Hood's not being remade in
a decent way. I should say, well, no, the ABBA
has always been a sort of slow hurry uh idea
that you know, take your time to get to know.
And yeah, everyone does get on. I mean, the complications
of history are real. So the one thing that you
(34:03):
know you don't discuss unless invited to, I suppose, but
you don't discuss is the occupation by well natti is
the far right, because there are villages who won't talk
to each other because of it. And that's a recent
complication of history, but there are there are genuine you know,
(34:32):
my view, I said, my view, My knowledge is that
a lot of the religious beliefs from from very ancient
times are still around, whether it's in the way that
people talk to each other. I actually believe, you know,
we call them the Cathars. We call it Cathar Country,
which I'm not exactly a big favor of, because then
(34:55):
you you know, if you go to the brilliant city,
the old city of Carcasson, I remember wondering, she's some
years ago I think it was given it all with
tim and saw the most disgusting thing I've ever seen, Richie,
which was the Cathar burger, And I thought, really, is
that how they would be remembered?
Speaker 4 (35:16):
You know, you know I was a vegetarian burger.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
No, it was a charcoaled piece of meat. So and
you just think that, you know, that's the sort of Disneyland.
But we call them Kathars. The reality of it is
one they won't call the Kathars. And the church referred
to them as Miniki, the followers of And of course
(35:45):
then someone said didn't we officially get rid of them
about you know, seven eight hundred years ago. Yeah, yes, yes, yes,
they can't be them, can they know? So yeah, we'll
call them, you know, we'll call them the pure ones
sarcastically yep. Well, the thing is that that says so
(36:06):
much about the area that the belief system. You know,
you might have met them with the sword during the
Great persecution of Diocletian and all of this. Who actually
was after the Manicheists, not the Christians until the Christians go,
see you all destroyed? And then Diocletian goes and who
(36:29):
are you? But yeah, you know, Manichaeys and very interesting.
A lot of the capr beliefs based on it, and
actually managed to trace the last vestiges of an active
worship of them to the sixteenth century China, and they,
(36:51):
very similar to Japan, were removing Christianity at this period.
But the idea that you destroy ideas and beliefs is nonsense.
It goes underground. Yeah, you know that that's what's happened,
And that idea of you know, a sort of very
basic toleration and very advanced understanding is the way that
(37:14):
the world works. You really do feel in the Long
Duck Ositania, there's a very ancient I don't know about.
I don't know really how to phrase it. It feels
ancient and welcoming. Most of the time. It has its
(37:34):
mood swing. Sometimes it's not today. I need a rest,
usually after tourist season. I've got to say, you know,
generally is a very very old, old place with you know,
you visit some places, usually cities, and I don't think
city is very welcoming. It's and bustle, and you know,
(37:57):
if you fall over in a city, really speaking, people
just walk by you, yeah, aft by the way, well,
generally speaking, quoes. If you what's full over in the street,
as has happened many occasions, those who are physically able
will come on.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, well that's you know, there is a I love
sort of that brand of French person those communities. They're
very very patriotic, very very much into the love of
(38:35):
their country and family. Those are the two big big things.
And I respect that, I really do.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
It is kind of the mutto of the French Republic. However, liberty,
fraternity and legality and the you know, after a lot
of repression by the what's called the mcudn't regime, the
old regime in other words, you know, the monarchs which
out of the monarchies of Europe, probably some of the
(39:09):
most repressive against their own was the Bourbon dynasty and
an Office and others. I suppose that the Republic was
hard for and so it's I don't it might be
a love for the Republic. Well, I think the franch
(39:30):
fifth Republic is due to collapse shortly and sixth Republic
will come around. I think it's more defense of the
republic that you pick up that you know, these values
are here to be defended.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Well, we certainly are in the middle there of that
area where they were.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
You know, it was full of you know, local French
resistance fighters and you know there were some pretty heroic
things going on during the war, like just farmers and
others who were But.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Again, the you know, the Ossitian spirities. If you think
about it from a from a historical perspective, and you
tend not to find people making a big song can
dance about local history, you think if you you know,
if you're from another country visiting the abbey, you tend
to go, oh my god, look at this, whereas you
(40:34):
know locals tend to go yeah. And it's it's that
it's sort of weaved in what why make a big
deal about it.
Speaker 4 (40:43):
But although on you know, certain occasions you know of
note in history there, you know, the two big wars.
I do see a lot of ceremony going on.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
In the little communes where they come out and honor
the fallen soldiers, including the Americans. They always include the Americans.
It's always very touching.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Well, the thing is, it's you know again, i'd look
at it if you've got a French army who's coming
down and wiping you out. During the Crusades at the time,
you know, there was a bit of relief that England
was not quite coming into the defense of these so
(41:36):
called heretics, but kind of because I have a very
strong view that Eleanor of Akutan was what we would
call a cathar as she was certainly a very proud
and very vocal support with the Troubadours, and very very
very powerful woman in history and certainly someone who deserves
(41:58):
I think a little bit more of a limelight and
perhaps and maybe she is getting bit more of that
these days. But I do think in terms of women
in history, it's a very important person. But yeah, I
mean the Second World War, if we're being honest, about it.
It was the Americans and the Britain in the south,
(42:23):
especially the Americans who were liberating. So we know Paul Swank,
the American I think he was a corporal get lieutenant.
It's Ala Klabam who was responsible for saving pretty much
the town from some disgusting tactics that we don't know to.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
It needs to go into amazing story.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
But yeah, so there is celebration.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
You know that one American guy every August I think
it's August seventeenth, and it was an nineteen forty four
that it happened. But the Nazis were on the march
on the way to Queza, which is just very few
miles down the road from allent leban where this battle
(43:16):
ended up being fought on the road, in fact, on
the very road that I was just talking about where
the center is going to be.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
And by the way, the center is called La.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Confluence, and it's sort of a play on the fact
that we're right at the confluence of two rivers there.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
In Quez of the sALS and the Ode, and.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
A confluence of ideas is what we're sort of trying
to trying to foster there, you know, where ideas meet
and expand everybody can contribute and hopefully everybody will get
something from it.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
But anyhow.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
So there was a time when he was just by himself,
Lieutenant Swank, fighting off those Nazis. He sent the other
ones ahead because they had freed some hostages from the
German truck, and he said take them on and go
to Quisa.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
And that's what they did.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
And the Germans were trying to get to Queza because
they had supply depot there and they did not make it.
They were turned back by Paul Swank in a little
handful of local men and I think a couple of
Spaniards who knew how to, who knew a little bit
about explosives. But if this little ragtag group turned that
(44:45):
whole army back and they never ever came back to
the ode again after that, they left, did not return.
So that was quite the deal that they celebrate to
this day.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
I'm not so We've got to remember it's very difficult
for people who are perhaps not in living memory, have
been an occupied people to really underestimate the notion of
having your freedom and liberty taken from you and your friends.
(45:22):
You know, some of the executed and all the rest
of it that the impact that has, and yes it
should be commemorated. And again with the Great War as well,
World War One, you know, the Great War was so
you know, we often call it that their entire village
is there's a place called Oriak, for example, and you
(45:42):
read the list of people they're the population of that
now hamlet hasn't recovered, you know, a village of one
hundred perhaps maybe just less, but a village of one
hundred now ten hire generation of people were mowed down
(46:03):
in war. So and it you know again it's it's
what it amazes me about the Ord and the broader
Ossiton region is that every century there has been some
sort of conflict, some ideological conflicts. So the Wars of Religion,
(46:24):
which for three hundred years long, by the way, a
massive civil war with a few sort of interruptions of
peace but very unstable. To the Crusades, then to you know,
the Moors invading. You know that you have the Aragonese
and then the Spanish and and all this and there's
these events that it still retains that welcoming spirit, you know,
(46:50):
if you're respectful, and I think that's what else could
you need in life? I suppose. But yeah, and incidentally,
the D one one eight that the road. I never
thought we'd be talking about roads, but there we go.
Is the old Roman road actually to Killianus today's Keon
all the way to and I suspect there is a
(47:14):
road that has yet been identified but discussed called the
Via Ariginensis, which was the road crossing the Ariage. I
suspect that that road connected with it somewhere in the
environment of Keon.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
And would that have been originally a Roman road as well?
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Most certainly was yes, not a major, major, major road,
but certainly an important one, which would have been toll
booth and and all of this. Whereas the D one
one eight, because of the prosperity of the area, there
weren't any tolls on it, you know, which certainly certainly
helps and all of this.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Yeah, well, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
I do know that when when you are there, or
at least when I'm there, and I'm sure it's the
same for many people, you do feel that sense of
walking in the footsteps of your ancestors, or from at
least our predecessors, people from long long ago. You do
(48:25):
have that sense of history there that you know obviously
we just don't have here in any structures or architecture
or anything.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
You know, we believe that.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
You know, if your house is one hundred years old,
that's an old house. And what's funny is I think
the property of the house where the center is I
believe was.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
Built in the sixteen hundreds. Well that's a new house,
you know.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Around there, because like your house that you have it
down in the region is much older than that. You know,
our friends Joe and treb their house is much older
than that. It's mind blowing to Americans.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
I tell you, my house there is sufficiently old for
me to be comfortable with its fourteenth century on the
ground floor, sixteenth on the first and probably renovated again
in the seventeenth up on the second floor.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
So your second floor is about the same age as
my whole house.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
And that's the new addition that you got off.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
You know. And I always welcome people who take the
plunge and go, yes, I'm going to come, and if
ever I've done any tools, I quite like to take
people just for the basics to a place to alet Laban,
who alet Laban used to have its old name, is
(50:08):
by far the coolest name that has ever been given
to a place. It was called at one point Pagas elektensis,
which is just amazing and we need to do more
with that one. But yeah, Well, one of the questions
that's asked quite often is, well, why is why is
(50:28):
the first floor of Americans suppose or second? Sorry? Second,
I'm getting confused. Now why's the first floor jutting outwards?
And where? Because you only paid tax on the ground
footprint of the building. So what happens in medieval buildings
(50:48):
is they start building out, you know, and that second floor,
first floor, and you end up with this very strange
houses coming closer together the further and further up the go.
That was the medieval tax dodge and all of.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
This so funny.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
I want they had any support problems.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
They tended to, you know, use very good, strong support
beings and all of this. I mean, we've got to
kiss goodbye this Hollywood idea that people were throwing out there,
you know what, into the streets from windows above. If
you were caught doing that, you'd be in the pillory.
(51:35):
In fact, I did read the repeat offender being meeting
the gallows, shall we say? No, people would go down
and put it into the drain, so it was still
on the before. It's just you're not going to get
splashed by anything. That wouldn't happen. If it did, you'd
be in deep trouble. As Sonya's brother found out in
(52:00):
up its Montezelle a few dates poop in public. There
was one raucous event I think it was three days
before we passed away due to I think it's complications
due to alcoholism. But he was absolutely legless, absolutely blind,
(52:26):
drunk and was urinating and throwing beer and all the
rest of him caused a major problem for his dear
old mum so embarrassed by this. Priest also was behaving badly.
So yes, that is an example very.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Good luck with her sons because she had to sue
the other one. Did she get any money letting her
starve to death?
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Well, definitely.
Speaker 4 (53:01):
Listene was peeing in the street and the other one was.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Or from about from a balcony into the street. Yes, jeez, so.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Everyone was pinching his pennies. We currently had some money
to spend.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
He certainly certainly did so, yes, And of course, if
you want to, if you want more on the Sonya stuff,
we have done a few shows on that around the
real nature of Sonya and actually he's not this romantic
figure at all. In fact, quite a nasty individual when
you when you begin to look at him.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
I have always felt like he was conflicted and troubled
for some reason. That's how I've always kind of sensed him.
And you know, at one time, before Bloodline, we were
going to actually produce a scripted film, uh about the
(54:01):
Sagnier story. And I remember at that time I was thinking,
you know, I want the Sognor figure to be troubled,
you know, like.
Speaker 4 (54:14):
He's not happy. Stuff's going on.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
There's paranoia, and there's you know, guilt feelings because you
know he's probably going against his own belief system and
and things like that. And I always because we had
done this little short film in fact, very weird. I
just ran across the last night on YouTube a short
film called Roast Beef r O s b E E
(54:39):
F in France and it's in French and it's over
in Provence and the guy that was the lead character
was a famous French footballer called David Ginola, and.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
He'd moved over interacting again mister you know, yes, we
all know him, yes.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
Yeah, yeah, I saw him on a train commercial to
the he Throw Express or something like that.
Speaker 4 (55:13):
I saw him on one of those.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
But anyway, he was apparently he and Johnny Depp were
best friends, and Johnny Depp used to show up to
the set and watch David work anyway, And I always
had this idea, because Johnny Depp always played these weird
characters and complex characters. I would love to for Johnny
(55:41):
Depp took place Son years this troubled guy, you know,
trying to figure out, you know, which road to take
and you know, coming into all this money.
Speaker 4 (55:51):
And very conflicted. But that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
No, there is an actor out there who I think
he's not a well known He was in The Crown,
actually played the Well families, vicar and all of this,
who would be absolutely ideal Son. Yes, so you never
(56:19):
you never know. It could hit the big screens one day.
If story Rose Beef is what they call the English
in French, that's the the the insult and all of this, which.
Speaker 4 (56:34):
Oh that's funny, that's funny.
Speaker 3 (56:36):
Well, you know obviously English director that we had well
business partner, and it was it actually was about meat
though it was it was about.
Speaker 4 (56:49):
A guy that came to town, new guy in town
and who was the butcher, and all the women were
going crazy for him, and he was sleeping with all
the wives.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
And sounds just like sonya.
Speaker 3 (57:06):
Yeah, And the men gathered together and we're going to
run him out of town.
Speaker 4 (57:11):
And anyway, it was a short film. It wanted an award.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
I've just seen the time. N I.
Speaker 4 (57:22):
We're over.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
We're over.
Speaker 4 (57:25):
Do we get paid for our time?
Speaker 1 (57:27):
I'll see what I can negotiate.
Speaker 4 (57:29):
Okay, time and.
Speaker 3 (57:30):
A half is fine, all right, Well, thanks everybody for
listening and watching. If you're watching, and hopefully be back
again to visit next week and in the future. And
if you are a member of Facebook, please take a
look for the site that we've created called luck Confluence
(57:54):
La Confluence, and it's spelled just the way that it sounds,
and I think there's a couple of different pages that
have that at least part of that name in it.
But you'll notice the logo that we have that's across
with a rose in the middle.
Speaker 4 (58:11):
So when you see that that's.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
The right La Confluence, please click on it and come
and visit and follow us. And we're going to be
printing putting our progress and opening the center there so
you can see when everything's happening. And we're going to
be doing some filming soon of some of the renovations
and things like that.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
Well, good to be back on I Yeah you soon.
Speaker 4 (58:39):
Yeah, it's been forever, all right, guys, thank you so much.
Take care,
Night Vision Vision.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Following clues left by our ancestors, we unbury the past
to reveal a knowledge of unfathomable value, putting us just
a little closer to our own true birthrights. From the
secret history of a possible bloodline of Jesus Christ, to
secret history of America's founders, to the secret history of
(00:25):
extraterrestrial interaction on our planet. Here to bring light to
the night. Your host for night Vision Radio Renee Barnett.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to night Vision or welcome to
night Vision. If this is your first time, hope it
won't be your last. Today we've got a great show plan.
Our wonderful historian James Martin is back to rejoin us.
We haven't seen him in a while, so we're very
excited about that. But let's just get started. Let's bring
(01:07):
James on right now, and let's don't waste any more time.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Hey, you hi, if you want good to be back
for me. It feels like it was just yesterday, but
I think it was. It wasn't.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
It's been a lot for a while.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
It's you know, I've missed it. But you know, we
were going to talk about some of the mysteries that
surround that certain area of southern France where we like
to go and and spend time and look around and dig.
And especially you, you're the you're the best digger, not literally,
(01:45):
but into the records and into the archives to find.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Little known gems, you know.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I mean, I'm thinking of one particular property that we
knew about that was for sale, uh, that is being
advertised by the owner and the realtor of the immobilia
as being medieval built. But you were able to identify
that that that that building was actually built uh in
(02:15):
the eight in the eight hundred, somewhere in the ninth century.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Uh. And to this day, no one knows that except
for you and.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Me and a little handful of people, I guess, but now,
but nobody knows what we're talking which location we're talking about.
But that was quite clever. And I remember the time
that you found some kind of record that made you
go out and look out on the ground and you
actually discovered this ruin of a Moorish castle that you know,
(02:49):
was distinctly different, you know, type of building than than
the other ones that were used to see around there.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
So it was very identifiable.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But I've never heard of that anywhere in the area,
and when I mentioned it to people even to this day,
they're baffled by that. So we'll see what else we
can turn up today. But before we get started on
all that, I like to remind people your book that
(03:21):
you co authored along with Tim Wallis Murphy is available
for sale. It's called Uncharted or Rediscovered History of Voyage
Voyages to the Americas before Columbus, and we all know.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
That there were lots of those, or at least.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
We do now we didn't for a long time. And
even more exciting than that, James has been putting together
a trilogy of the entire history of the Knights Templar,
beginning way before the establishment, the circumstances that were present
(03:59):
to caused them to be established, and on through till
the time that they were so called disbanded in thirteen
oh seven and went their separate ways.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Where did they go? That sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
So James has been looking into all that, and I
guarantee this is going to be like the definitive history
on the Knights Templar. This will be all you need
and there will be three volumes. The first one is
going to be Order of Magnitude and the second one is,
(04:35):
oh got them out of order?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Are like the downfall of the Knight's Templar, And then
what could be after that?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Last orders all the impacts of the knights Templar which
have been.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Very strong.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
And you know, there's something about the Knight's Templar that
really captivates the imagination of a very everyone, and sometimes
we kind of twist it into our own version of
who we wish that they were.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
But on their own and their.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Own real history, they were just such an interesting group
of warrior monks.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
And I think there is.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Something, you know, very romantic about that idea that they had,
you know, basically given up all their worldly goods to
serve a higher purpose. And I wonder what we'll find
out about where they went.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I know some of it. I know some of them
ended up in Spain because they were.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, and actually you know being in writing this, so
it's one of these order of magnitude. Well, because it's
me starts well at the beginning, to give the some
places start at the end of the book. This lays
the foundation for a lot of the myths that we accept,
(06:08):
all these lots of stuff about the merror of engines,
for example, we're just talking before the before the show
about the merit of engines, and actually they didn't really
have that much of an impact, but we look at
them who the caroll engines were then after them, and
also where some of the origin of some of the
relics that the templars were it was supposed that they
(06:31):
had access or knowledge of, including and I will give
a little bit of a tidbit about this that it
might be. And like I said, this is more for
questioning rather than you know, there's an answer, because it
just struck me that the rumors of the night finding
(06:52):
an object in the Middle East was a bit unusual
because back when the Templars were established, and I mean
that long before or the number of so called relics
that were being found suggests there was quite an active
black market for you know, forgeries and others, you know, perhaps,
but it did occur to me that, you know, if
(07:13):
you wanted to have stranglehold of the of the church
of the time, it would perhaps be more likely if
indeed they found anything that perhaps they found a copy
of some of the Gnostic texts or refound them actually,
and that in itself would have been exceptionally explosive. We
(07:36):
know that they venerated maybe Magdalene for example, it could
very well be then that they found her gospel.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Yeah, you know, speaking of those texts, you know, obviously
you know, the Naga Mighty Library or the Gnostic Gospels,
as as they're known, you know, we're not known for
a long time.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I think it was in the nineteen four when they're
actually discovered. But if they're the if they're the Gnostic
Gospels and the templars found them, then obviously the Church
wouldn't want that known. And you know that's probably another
(08:23):
thing that went down into the Secret Archives. But I
heard recently and you probably know the answer to this,
that the Vatican is in process right now of digitizing
the Secret Archives, and someone was hinting that it was
(08:44):
going to be available.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
I can't see that.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I can see them digitizing it, you know, for safe keeping,
but I don't see them making that available to the
public when they've been so precious about it. You know,
even you know, cultural items that they've taken from people
like Native American tribes, they don't even allow the tribe
(09:09):
to view those objects. And that's their sacred objects, that's
their Art of the Covenant, you know, basically, but the
Vatican gathered all those ceremonial items up and keep them secret. Well,
number one, why and number two, if they've done that,
(09:29):
then why are they now just going to turn it over?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
The full experiment with that one is, if if it
was a Vatican researcher you found the Nakamadi library, would
we know about it? M And if you're thinking the
answers no, then that should give you off idea as
to where my view is on digitizing. Of course, I
think there will be documents that are digitized that we
(09:54):
do know about right available, I'm sure with a small
fee and all that, right, But I can't see some
of the other things. I mean, there are things out
there that could have been discovered that we don't know
about that. There's lots of things like that. Yeah, I
can't see. I mean, we give you an idea at
(10:17):
the time of this show, so if you're watching in
the future, I hope the future is right. But yeah,
there's there's an issue in the UK at the minute
around access to documents relating to Queen Elizabeth and her
husband Philip, that there's an arbitrary one hundred year prohibition
(10:38):
and accessing any of the texts and diaries and other
such things for what reason exactly, And that's prompted quite
a large debate. So I'm not you know, I'm not
pessimist in this way. I mean, the Nagamadi Library, I
have to say, you know, it was found and some
(10:59):
of the square were burns because it was seen as
it was just firewood. So why we have probably lost
some things. However, I don't believe that they are the
only copies. It would be exceptionally unusual for to be
the only. So the earth is a large place. You
(11:20):
never know where they might end up. I mean, for
that moment it was a cave I think, I think
it was. It was something like forty six forty seven.
It was after the Second World War around them, and yeah,
you never do know, but yes, you know, continuing on
the book where I am at the minute is just
(11:44):
a few tantalizing chapters too, in fact, from concluding and
I just writing and get them in a chapter on
the Vikings, And of course the reason for that is
we know that Naus really give them their proper name.
People knew them as the Norse. Viking. Is a job
title meaning export trade of that kind of thing. But
(12:08):
we know some of the families of the nurse ended
up in the temple order. But crucially there's a possibility
of a proto templar order in Norse culture, and these
were called the yons Vikinger, and these were were essentially
religious officials with swords, probably with axes, I've got to say,
(12:34):
And there is a there is a scholarly debate as
to whether they existed, but it is such an unusual
thing to make up and for what purpose that you
know that certainly the idea of worrying monks, there are
some examples of them in history. William of Gellon definitely,
you know, he was a monk with the sword. In
(12:54):
the end, I suppose there are some flavors of something
like the templar before them, that maybe these ideas coalesced
family lines and through other connections into their founding. But
I have to say, you know, I will let everyone
(13:16):
know when the book is complete. It's been a lot
of research, well over three hundred four hundred source material.
So if you if that's what gets you you up
in the morning, you'll be able to read where I've
either given my opinion. But mostly this is from academic sources,
(13:37):
and there's some things in there that say, well, I'll
give you a bit of an exclusive on this one.
So I remember attending a conference with Tim Wallis Murphy
and there was I think Henry Lincoln was there to
be honest as well, and there's a discussion around Jewish templars,
(13:58):
and this very savious historian Sadna nothing like this. They
were a Catholic order. But what's unusual is I have
found plenty of examples in fact, but one family of brothers,
a guy called he was a rabbi actually called ben Eliza,
(14:21):
who gave donated will inglein freely as the transaction account.
And this is the sort of glorified receipt I have,
and his signature, crucially that survived all of these hundreds
of years. He donated his farm. I can even tell
you the name of the farm. It was called Prey
(14:42):
alder Bran, and Alderbran is a star, So I'm not
too sure what the reason for the name of the
farm was, if indeed it has anything to do with
a star, which is I think an Arabic name. So
that would suggest that you the Jewish Jasper had perhaps
bothered some knowledge around the heavens perhaps, but gave this
(15:06):
over to the Templars at their perceptory at Duzon, which
was their very large perceptory just outside of Carcasson. You
can't really see too much of it today, but the
perimeter of that town is vast and was the perimeter
of their perceptory. But you can see if you wish
(15:29):
to go to Douzon, which is spelt I suppose, if
you look at it dozen do O U Z E
n s you can see the Templar church still, the
one that was constructed by them. So yeah, all of
this sort of oh no, they didn't have any relationship
(15:49):
with it with the Jewish Jasper or anyone who was
an endurement of Islam or in fact Cathars or anything
like that is actually not quite the case. And I
think when we go to extremes and say that didn't happen,
couldn't have happened, you then leave yourself open to an
attack or to a bit of evidence saying well what
(16:11):
about this? Then how do you you know? So yeah,
that's remember.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
You revealing on this show in recent months that you
know you had identified at least one Sufi templar, and
so I mean there you have. You know, certainly if
if a Sufi might be a templar, then certainly a
(16:40):
Jewish person might be a templar.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
You've got, as I say, the template order wasn't just
the night, and you had people interacting in the Middle East,
and in fact the Long Dock, the mysterious area around
well then the chateau and further afield which had a
(17:03):
large Jewish dasporo. And not just that, there was also
Moors who were living who yes, the armies have been
kicked out, but we know that there's a In fact,
it's a now a hamlet bought, a hamlet called Maori
near the chateau, part of the town of Kueza. It's
(17:24):
I think three houses or three farms. Actually is named
after the month. So we know that this is a
big melting pot. In of course, if you've got people
who are working for you with their own beliefs and
interpretations in a very tolerant area, of course some of
their ideas are going to bleed through. Think about what
happens when you're in work. You meet people who've got
(17:46):
all sorts of strange and wonderful ideas and sometimes something
will inspire you.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
It happens all the time, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
You mentioned chateau, and I think we would be reminisce
if we did not mention that we are today seventeen January.
So that's today where the blue apples appear at midday
in the church at Renal Chateau, when the sun reached
(18:18):
it's a certain spot and shines through the window and
it illuminates the on the on the wall across, So
it's a little phenomenon. I'm sure there are people up
there to view it, and I have not been there
on the seventeenth.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Of January ever. Have you ever been over there on
January seventeenth?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I have, and it is a few years ago, and
it is bitterly cold, and there's not much at all open,
but it's quite busy. I think some of the restaurants
open exclusively for that data oh really to feed and
water weary travelers who've come to see a light show. Regretfully,
(19:01):
when I went, it was quite cloudy, overcast, and the
best thing that was shining with the lights in the
chapel itself, so.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
I see, yeah, you know, I've never been there when
it's happened.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I've seen pictures of it, of course, and although they
call it blue apples, it's really multi colored, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Yeah, and like a rainbow.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I have to say, well, give a bit of sunlight
and you will see some of the some of the
light show. I suppose, you know, other days. But yeah,
I remember having a look into that. You know, why
is it called this? And there's not really too much
knowledge other than it's part of the mystery. There is
(19:48):
a celebration of some very purply blue looking apples outside
of Yourna, and there's a very similar very similar in fact,
that looks like the sistory of the tour Magdala.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
It does, yeah, you know so.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And we know that Sonya liked visiting, so I suppose
he had some inspiration from the city of Jerona across
the border in Catalonia, in well, northern Spain, but you
know Catalonia and Orphice. So yeah, it's you know, the
(20:27):
seventeenth if you if you're into the Rendlesht mystery and
Sonia in Orphice. Of course, it's a bit like the
national holiday for Rennies, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
So it is it is, that's so funny because I
didn't even realize it until we sat down and I
look up in the corner of.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
My screen is January seventeenth. Now, what were some of
the other things that occurred?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
I know.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
The priest bege Sonia fell ill on January seventeenth. He
didn't die until some days later, but he fell.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Well, what were some of the other things.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And isn't it a particular feast day on January seventeenth?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, in terms of feast days, there's one for free
day of the year. Yeah, you do look at the seventeenth.
So I think Sonya died ultimately a few days later,
but I believe it was the day that Jalie was murdered.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
No, No, that was that was Halloween All Hallows Eve
was dially murder.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
But there were other associations with that. I'm going to
have to before I open my mouth the next time.
I'm going to have to refresh because there were quite
a few things that I remember that we're tied to
January seventeenth.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, it's remember. Dates tend not to jump out at
me too much, but I do remember the seventeenth. Oh God,
there you go again. But they tend not to jump
out at me for various reasons that you know some
(22:17):
yea we fell ill, yes, but he didn't die until
you know, and all of that. But yeah, very interesting,
you know, the sort of in the old calendar, the
eydes of eyes of the month, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, so that was going on today up and run
on Chateau and down the hill in Queza. There were
lots of hammering and wiring and all kinds of things
going on as we renovate a property that we've just
obtained to put in a center, research and tourist center
(22:59):
in Queza.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
It's a great location because it's right.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
On the D one eighteen or the route to Parrenees,
so it's kind of a well traveled road. You really
have to pass by it to go anywhere in the area.
If you're going to the sea, or if you're going
back up toward Lemoux or Carcassan, you got to pass
by our place.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
So I'll be letting people know when it's actually open for.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Business and hopefully some of you can make it make
your way over there and fall in love just like
we have with that incredible place.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
But I'll be spending a lot more time there.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Well, I look forward to I believe you've had the
heating and sould.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
We got the heaters came in yesterday and Tylo, our
wonderful electrician, had our already hung the the brackets. They're
wall heaters, which is kind of the way to go
in these old houses sometimes, and so they came in
yesterday and I'm they may be in now.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
He was hanging them.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
And he also had to you know, connect them and everything.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
And then he's putting in some lighting.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
In the in the first floor what in France is
called the first floor. In the United States we would
call that the second floor. It was kind of dark
corridors and things. So he's installed some nice spotlights and
things like that, and some.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
We'll make a European out of you. Yet, yes, ground floor,
then first.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Floor, that's right, that's right. I have learned it. But
I do clarify it for my American friends.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Because I don't confuse in the lift to just put
it that way. Many many years going calendar, getting very
confused why I couldn't find my hotel room, and it
just didn't make any sense to them until some polightly said, oh, well,
here we call that, I think, right, the third floor
(25:20):
or something like that.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
It's very confusing.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I know when I was looking at you know, not recently,
but a few years ago at property listings, I would
always get confused when they would say first floor. Well,
to me, the first is the one you walk into
the ground floor.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Why wouldn't that be the first floor?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
But because when in Rome, and then you know what,
very very nearby is the village of Companion, sir Ode,
where our wonderful friends Joe and Trev live. Jill has
her gorgeous little itelier there, So if you go to
(26:01):
a Campanion, make.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Sure you stop in.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Hopefully she'll be open, and but you can certainly make
an appointment.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
If she's not.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
But the big news and Companion is that they are
building or putting in a Templar museum.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
And you know, as many of you know.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
There's that wonderful round Templar church and the museum is
actually in a structure that's part of that historical building.
So it's going to be really nice. And you guys
have heard me brag about James's Templar map that has
(26:43):
so many sites to these marks that have been confirmed
and if they're not confirmed, that information is there also,
But it's a great interactive map, so hopefully we'll see
that in the Templar Museum. It would be a wonderful
interactive big screen thing to have on the wall there,
(27:05):
so and I'm sure that don't want to have it,
and I want to have a map in the center
as well, and I'm thinking, I don't know, maybe we
should have the entire map in the center and maybe
just the area around Campania. No, I don't know, in
the other one, or would people I think maybe since
(27:26):
people are going to be coming from around the world,
maybe they probably need the whole into.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
They could purchase a printed copy and mark off all
of the Tumbel buildings that they've been to. I know.
That's pretty much what I've been doing. And I think
it take I mean, I think plotted in them in
these thousands of these places across you over, really plotted
(27:57):
them on Google. And this took a night. It was
overnight to do this, but it plotted out a root
the most efficient route between all of the places, and
I think it worked out that it takes about eighty
three years to drive to them all.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
When you think, yeah, yeah, that's a pilgrimage, and I'm
probably a bit too late to have to start now,
but oh well.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
There are just so many, I mean, and you're marking
each site with a little red template cross ye, and
in some areas it's just solid red because there are
just so many sites.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
So it's well, they were absolutely concentrated. So there are
some gaps still, yeah, and that doesn't mean that there's
nothing there, It just means I've not had the chance
to plot them well. Most certainly, what you can see
is the largest concentration of perceptories are really within the
(29:09):
Long Dock itself. And you know, many many people have
speculated as to why, and I think it's got quite
a lot to do with the fertility of the land,
the trade. It was very prosperous place until the French
invaded under the King Philip the Fourth invaded the south
(29:34):
and basically stole the land, and now the area is
known as one of the poorest in all of France.
The Order and the Long Dock of the old region
called the Long Dock, whereas one point it was the
most prosperous in what we would call today is France,
and all that, all of that was built upon toleration
(29:56):
and a fusion of cultures. I mean, if it really
A said this a few times, and I said this recently.
If it wasn't for the Crusades, the Albergensene Crusades against
the Cathars, the Renaissance would have occurred one hundred, one
hundred and fifty years earlier than when it did in
(30:18):
northern Italy. And of course plague didn't really help either.
There are other factors, but genuinely, the we had in
the area. There's an obscure person no one knows really
what his name is, but something called the Master of Cabastiny.
(30:39):
And we know where Cabastny is, that's just near Perpignon.
But his construct he was sought out from northern Italy,
right the way across the coast, from northern Italy, right
the way through fran into Spain. We know next to
nothing about him or indeed her bought there are you know,
(31:04):
you can see the what we call the Devil Church,
for example, of the sculptures the ancient sculptures should say
from him, and you just think that it's a remarkable
amount of detail that's gone into sculpting that you really
don't see outside of the area, and he was from
(31:26):
the Longer Duck, as I say, from So it just
gives an idea of the cultural exports as well, that
you know, this our mysterious place in the in the
the sun, as it were, Yeah, was providing to everyone else,
and it includes knowledge and and everything else.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Today, you know, of course, it's it's a little different.
But I tell you, when I'm there, I do have
the sense that it's sort of like you do your
business and I'll do my business and we'll you know,
we'll get along just fine. It's there's still that sort
of acceptance, at least in my opinion, not probably not everywhere,
(32:16):
but and probably some villages or probably have a different
personality than others, a little bit more accepting. But I
don't know, I really like the feeling there because I
was telling someone the other day, it's not like the
United States, where you get worshiped because you've got tons
(32:37):
of money. You know, people don't really care about that there,
and if you do have a lot of money, it
just might make them a little more suspicious of you,
not fawning all over you like we do here in
the US. And it's like it's you know, what's more
(32:59):
important to them is you know, the kind of person
you are, your character, but also if you've got an
interesting story, interesting background, you know, that's worth much more
to them than if you add a lot of money.
Because if you really think about it, why do we
worship the rich? I mean they're not paying my rent?
You know, so it's like, what are we worshiping them for?
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Your rent's probably paying them exactly exactly. That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Maybe one of these days we're going to figure out
that it's not the left and the right, it's the.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
It's the working poor and the rich elite. Okay, we
won't get political.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Well, I wonder why robin Hood's not being remade in
a decent way. I should say, well, no, the ABBA
has always been a sort of slow hurry uh idea
that you know, take your time to get to know.
And yeah, everyone does get on. I mean, the complications
of history are real. So the one thing that you
(34:03):
know you don't discuss unless invited to, I suppose, but
you don't discuss is the occupation by well natti is
the far right, because there are villages who won't talk
to each other because of it. And that's a recent
complication of history, but there are there are genuine you know,
(34:32):
my view, I said, my view, My knowledge is that
a lot of the religious beliefs from from very ancient
times are still around, whether it's in the way that
people talk to each other. I actually believe, you know,
we call them the Cathars. We call it Cathar Country,
which I'm not exactly a big favor of, because then
(34:55):
you you know, if you go to the brilliant city,
the old city of Carcasson, I remember wondering, she's some
years ago I think it was given it all with
tim and saw the most disgusting thing I've ever seen, Richie,
which was the Cathar burger, And I thought, really, is
that how they would be remembered?
Speaker 4 (35:16):
You know, you know I was a vegetarian burger.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
No, it was a charcoaled piece of meat. So and
you just think that, you know, that's the sort of Disneyland.
But we call them Kathars. The reality of it is
one they won't call the Kathars. And the church referred
to them as Miniki, the followers of And of course
(35:45):
then someone said didn't we officially get rid of them
about you know, seven eight hundred years ago. Yeah, yes, yes, yes,
they can't be them, can they know? So yeah, we'll
call them, you know, we'll call them the pure ones
sarcastically yep. Well, the thing is that that says so
(36:06):
much about the area that the belief system. You know,
you might have met them with the sword during the
Great persecution of Diocletian and all of this. Who actually
was after the Manicheists, not the Christians until the Christians go,
see you all destroyed? And then Diocletian goes and who
(36:29):
are you? But yeah, you know, Manichaeys and very interesting.
A lot of the capr beliefs based on it, and
actually managed to trace the last vestiges of an active
worship of them to the sixteenth century China, and they,
(36:51):
very similar to Japan, were removing Christianity at this period.
But the idea that you destroy ideas and beliefs is nonsense.
It goes underground. Yeah, you know that that's what's happened,
And that idea of you know, a sort of very
basic toleration and very advanced understanding is the way that
(37:14):
the world works. You really do feel in the Long
Duck Ositania, there's a very ancient I don't know about.
I don't know really how to phrase it. It feels
ancient and welcoming. Most of the time. It has its
(37:34):
mood swing. Sometimes it's not today. I need a rest,
usually after tourist season. I've got to say, you know,
generally is a very very old, old place with you know,
you visit some places, usually cities, and I don't think
city is very welcoming. It's and bustle, and you know,
(37:57):
if you fall over in a city, really speaking, people
just walk by you, yeah, aft by the way, well,
generally speaking, quoes. If you what's full over in the street,
as has happened many occasions, those who are physically able
will come on.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, well that's you know, there is a I love
sort of that brand of French person those communities. They're
very very patriotic, very very much into the love of
(38:35):
their country and family. Those are the two big big things.
And I respect that, I really do.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
It is kind of the mutto of the French Republic. However, liberty,
fraternity and legality and the you know, after a lot
of repression by the what's called the mcudn't regime, the
old regime in other words, you know, the monarchs which
out of the monarchies of Europe, probably some of the
(39:09):
most repressive against their own was the Bourbon dynasty and
an Office and others. I suppose that the Republic was
hard for and so it's I don't it might be
a love for the Republic. Well, I think the franch
(39:30):
fifth Republic is due to collapse shortly and sixth Republic
will come around. I think it's more defense of the
republic that you pick up that you know, these values
are here to be defended.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Well, we certainly are in the middle there of that
area where they were.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
You know, it was full of you know, local French
resistance fighters and you know there were some pretty heroic
things going on during the war, like just farmers and
others who were But.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Again, the you know, the Ossitian spirities. If you think
about it from a from a historical perspective, and you
tend not to find people making a big song can
dance about local history, you think if you you know,
if you're from another country visiting the abbey, you tend
to go, oh my god, look at this, whereas you
(40:34):
know locals tend to go yeah. And it's it's that
it's sort of weaved in what why make a big
deal about it.
Speaker 4 (40:43):
But although on you know, certain occasions you know of
note in history there, you know, the two big wars.
I do see a lot of ceremony going on.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
In the little communes where they come out and honor
the fallen soldiers, including the Americans. They always include the Americans.
It's always very touching.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Well, the thing is, it's you know again, i'd look
at it if you've got a French army who's coming
down and wiping you out. During the Crusades at the time,
you know, there was a bit of relief that England
was not quite coming into the defense of these so
(41:36):
called heretics, but kind of because I have a very
strong view that Eleanor of Akutan was what we would
call a cathar as she was certainly a very proud
and very vocal support with the Troubadours, and very very
very powerful woman in history and certainly someone who deserves
(41:58):
I think a little bit more of a limelight and
perhaps and maybe she is getting bit more of that
these days. But I do think in terms of women
in history, it's a very important person. But yeah, I
mean the Second World War, if we're being honest, about it.
It was the Americans and the Britain in the south,
(42:23):
especially the Americans who were liberating. So we know Paul Swank,
the American I think he was a corporal get lieutenant.
It's Ala Klabam who was responsible for saving pretty much
the town from some disgusting tactics that we don't know to.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
It needs to go into amazing story.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
But yeah, so there is celebration.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
You know that one American guy every August I think
it's August seventeenth, and it was an nineteen forty four
that it happened. But the Nazis were on the march
on the way to Queza, which is just very few
miles down the road from allent leban where this battle
(43:16):
ended up being fought on the road, in fact, on
the very road that I was just talking about where
the center is going to be.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
And by the way, the center is called La.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Confluence, and it's sort of a play on the fact
that we're right at the confluence of two rivers there.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
In Quez of the sALS and the Ode, and.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
A confluence of ideas is what we're sort of trying
to trying to foster there, you know, where ideas meet
and expand everybody can contribute and hopefully everybody will get
something from it.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
But anyhow.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
So there was a time when he was just by himself,
Lieutenant Swank, fighting off those Nazis. He sent the other
ones ahead because they had freed some hostages from the
German truck, and he said take them on and go
to Quisa.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
And that's what they did.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
And the Germans were trying to get to Queza because
they had supply depot there and they did not make it.
They were turned back by Paul Swank in a little
handful of local men and I think a couple of
Spaniards who knew how to, who knew a little bit
about explosives. But if this little ragtag group turned that
(44:45):
whole army back and they never ever came back to
the ode again after that, they left, did not return.
So that was quite the deal that they celebrate to
this day.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
I'm not so We've got to remember it's very difficult
for people who are perhaps not in living memory, have
been an occupied people to really underestimate the notion of
having your freedom and liberty taken from you and your friends.
(45:22):
You know, some of the executed and all the rest
of it that the impact that has, and yes it
should be commemorated. And again with the Great War as well,
World War One, you know, the Great War was so
you know, we often call it that their entire village
is there's a place called Oriak, for example, and you
(45:42):
read the list of people they're the population of that
now hamlet hasn't recovered, you know, a village of one
hundred perhaps maybe just less, but a village of one
hundred now ten hire generation of people were mowed down
(46:03):
in war. So and it you know again it's it's
what it amazes me about the Ord and the broader
Ossiton region is that every century there has been some
sort of conflict, some ideological conflicts. So the Wars of Religion,
(46:24):
which for three hundred years long, by the way, a
massive civil war with a few sort of interruptions of
peace but very unstable. To the Crusades, then to you know,
the Moors invading. You know that you have the Aragonese
and then the Spanish and and all this and there's
these events that it still retains that welcoming spirit, you know,
(46:50):
if you're respectful, and I think that's what else could
you need in life? I suppose. But yeah, and incidentally,
the D one one eight that the road. I never
thought we'd be talking about roads, but there we go.
Is the old Roman road actually to Killianus today's Keon
all the way to and I suspect there is a
(47:14):
road that has yet been identified but discussed called the
Via Ariginensis, which was the road crossing the Ariage. I
suspect that that road connected with it somewhere in the
environment of Keon.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
And would that have been originally a Roman road as well?
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Most certainly was yes, not a major, major, major road,
but certainly an important one, which would have been toll
booth and and all of this. Whereas the D one
one eight, because of the prosperity of the area, there
weren't any tolls on it, you know, which certainly certainly
helps and all of this.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Yeah, well, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
I do know that when when you are there, or
at least when I'm there, and I'm sure it's the
same for many people, you do feel that sense of
walking in the footsteps of your ancestors, or from at
least our predecessors, people from long long ago. You do
(48:25):
have that sense of history there that you know obviously
we just don't have here in any structures or architecture
or anything.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
You know, we believe that.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
You know, if your house is one hundred years old,
that's an old house. And what's funny is I think
the property of the house where the center is I
believe was.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
Built in the sixteen hundreds. Well that's a new house,
you know.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Around there, because like your house that you have it
down in the region is much older than that. You know,
our friends Joe and treb their house is much older
than that. It's mind blowing to Americans.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
I tell you, my house there is sufficiently old for
me to be comfortable with its fourteenth century on the
ground floor, sixteenth on the first and probably renovated again
in the seventeenth up on the second floor.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
So your second floor is about the same age as
my whole house.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
And that's the new addition that you got off.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
You know. And I always welcome people who take the
plunge and go, yes, I'm going to come, and if
ever I've done any tools, I quite like to take
people just for the basics to a place to alet Laban,
who alet Laban used to have its old name, is
(50:08):
by far the coolest name that has ever been given
to a place. It was called at one point Pagas elektensis,
which is just amazing and we need to do more
with that one. But yeah, Well, one of the questions
that's asked quite often is, well, why is why is
(50:28):
the first floor of Americans suppose or second? Sorry? Second,
I'm getting confused. Now why's the first floor jutting outwards?
And where? Because you only paid tax on the ground
footprint of the building. So what happens in medieval buildings
(50:48):
is they start building out, you know, and that second floor,
first floor, and you end up with this very strange
houses coming closer together the further and further up the go.
That was the medieval tax dodge and all of.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
This so funny.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
I want they had any support problems.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
They tended to, you know, use very good, strong support
beings and all of this. I mean, we've got to
kiss goodbye this Hollywood idea that people were throwing out there,
you know what, into the streets from windows above. If
you were caught doing that, you'd be in the pillory.
(51:35):
In fact, I did read the repeat offender being meeting
the gallows, shall we say? No, people would go down
and put it into the drain, so it was still
on the before. It's just you're not going to get
splashed by anything. That wouldn't happen. If it did, you'd
be in deep trouble. As Sonya's brother found out in
(52:00):
up its Montezelle a few dates poop in public. There
was one raucous event I think it was three days
before we passed away due to I think it's complications
due to alcoholism. But he was absolutely legless, absolutely blind,
(52:26):
drunk and was urinating and throwing beer and all the
rest of him caused a major problem for his dear
old mum so embarrassed by this. Priest also was behaving badly.
So yes, that is an example very.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Good luck with her sons because she had to sue
the other one. Did she get any money letting her
starve to death?
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Well, definitely.
Speaker 4 (53:01):
Listene was peeing in the street and the other one was.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Or from about from a balcony into the street. Yes, jeez, so.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Everyone was pinching his pennies. We currently had some money
to spend.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
He certainly certainly did so, yes, And of course, if
you want to, if you want more on the Sonya stuff,
we have done a few shows on that around the
real nature of Sonya and actually he's not this romantic
figure at all. In fact, quite a nasty individual when
you when you begin to look at him.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
I have always felt like he was conflicted and troubled
for some reason. That's how I've always kind of sensed him.
And you know, at one time, before Bloodline, we were
going to actually produce a scripted film, uh about the
(54:01):
Sagnier story. And I remember at that time I was thinking,
you know, I want the Sognor figure to be troubled,
you know, like.
Speaker 4 (54:14):
He's not happy. Stuff's going on.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
There's paranoia, and there's you know, guilt feelings because you
know he's probably going against his own belief system and
and things like that. And I always because we had
done this little short film in fact, very weird. I
just ran across the last night on YouTube a short
film called Roast Beef r O s b E E
(54:39):
F in France and it's in French and it's over
in Provence and the guy that was the lead character
was a famous French footballer called David Ginola, and.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
He'd moved over interacting again mister you know, yes, we
all know him, yes.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
Yeah, yeah, I saw him on a train commercial to
the he Throw Express or something like that.
Speaker 4 (55:13):
I saw him on one of those.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
But anyway, he was apparently he and Johnny Depp were
best friends, and Johnny Depp used to show up to
the set and watch David work anyway, And I always
had this idea, because Johnny Depp always played these weird
characters and complex characters. I would love to for Johnny
(55:41):
Depp took place Son years this troubled guy, you know,
trying to figure out, you know, which road to take
and you know, coming into all this money.
Speaker 4 (55:51):
And very conflicted. But that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
No, there is an actor out there who I think
he's not a well known He was in The Crown,
actually played the Well families, vicar and all of this,
who would be absolutely ideal Son. Yes, so you never
(56:19):
you never know. It could hit the big screens one day.
If story Rose Beef is what they call the English
in French, that's the the the insult and all of this, which.
Speaker 4 (56:34):
Oh that's funny, that's funny.
Speaker 3 (56:36):
Well, you know obviously English director that we had well
business partner, and it was it actually was about meat
though it was it was about.
Speaker 4 (56:49):
A guy that came to town, new guy in town
and who was the butcher, and all the women were
going crazy for him, and he was sleeping with all
the wives.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
And sounds just like sonya.
Speaker 3 (57:06):
Yeah, And the men gathered together and we're going to
run him out of town.
Speaker 4 (57:11):
And anyway, it was a short film. It wanted an award.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
I've just seen the time. N I.
Speaker 4 (57:22):
We're over.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
We're over.
Speaker 4 (57:25):
Do we get paid for our time?
Speaker 1 (57:27):
I'll see what I can negotiate.
Speaker 4 (57:29):
Okay, time and.
Speaker 3 (57:30):
A half is fine, all right, Well, thanks everybody for
listening and watching. If you're watching, and hopefully be back
again to visit next week and in the future. And
if you are a member of Facebook, please take a
look for the site that we've created called luck Confluence
(57:54):
La Confluence, and it's spelled just the way that it sounds,
and I think there's a couple of different pages that
have that at least part of that name in it.
But you'll notice the logo that we have that's across
with a rose in the middle.
Speaker 4 (58:11):
So when you see that that's.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
The right La Confluence, please click on it and come
and visit and follow us. And we're going to be
printing putting our progress and opening the center there so
you can see when everything's happening. And we're going to
be doing some filming soon of some of the renovations
and things like that.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
Well, good to be back on I Yeah you soon.
Speaker 4 (58:39):
Yeah, it's been forever, all right, guys, thank you so much.
Take care,
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