Alejandro Rojas of Enigma Labs

Alejandro Rojas from Enigma Labs shares their new app for reporting UAP/UFO sightings from around the world.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Night Vision Vision. Following clues leftby our ancestors, we unbury the past
to reveal a knowledge of unfathomable value, putting us just a little closer to
our own true birthrights. From thesecret history of a possible bloodline of Jesus
Christ, a secret history of America'sfounders, to the secret history of extraterrestrial

(00:26):
interaction on our planet. Here tobring light to the night. Your host
for night Vision Radio, Renee Barnett. Welcome to night Vision, or welcome

(00:49):
back if you've been here before,So glad that you could join us tonight.
I've got a great show planned.Not going to take a lot of
time up front doing housekeeping measures becauseI want to get right into the show
because this is something that we canall use and all benefit from, especially
people that are listening to this showwho have interests in the field of UAPs

(01:12):
or UFOs or whatever we're calling themthese days. But I'd like to introduce
Alejandro Rojas from Enigma Labs, andwe're going to talk about exactly what they're
doing over at Enigma. Hello.Thanks for having me. Oh, thank
you so much for joining me.I was really excited when you accepted the

(01:34):
invitation. So what we're talking abouttoday is the new app that you have
for reporting UFO activity or sightings.Can you explain what it does just a
bit. Yeah, the app whenyou open it up, it's pretty robust.
Actually, when you first open itup, you see a globe and

(01:57):
it lists essentially all the sightings arearound the globe that we've collected. We
have historical data from mufon, Newfork, other databases that have been public out
there, and then we of courseget our own sightings and we've gotten thousands
and thousands, tens of thousands ofsightings on our own. In fact,

(02:17):
you know, formerly I have beena spokesperson with moufon. I've been writing
about this field for a long time. In fact, you know, for
over ten years, I've been afull time employee with some company or other
covering this field. And I cansay solidly that we're collecting reports more than

(02:38):
have ever been collected before. We'regetting at least fifty two a couple hundred
a day, So we're getting alot of reports. And what's great about
this is because it's an app andit's app based. A lot of those
sightings are video sightings, and oneof the things that we found just because
previously, you know, their webbased applications and it's not necessarily easy to

(03:01):
post your video, so doing itkind of more like social media where it's
kind of more video oriented. Wefound a lot of people are sharing videos,
and we found that a lot ofpeople previously were not sharing their videos.
Mostly they were showing a friend ortwo saving the video on their phone,
but not really sharing it otherwise.So now we've got a lot more

(03:23):
people sharing those videos and some ofthem are great. But the app also
does more than that, so youcan look at other sidings. You can
read about signings. We have alibrary of the great cases and those are
icons also, so cases like PhoenixLives or Nimas or Rendalshim, those type
of very popular ones. You canget very well sourced documents or articles on

(03:46):
those signings on the website. Andthen also we have more tools, so
we're one of the big things thatwe're trying to do. Also is you
hear from NASA, for example,in their Science pan saying, you know,
we really need to harness the technologyin our hands, the phones,
and we're doing that. So wehave a camera option on there. You'll

(04:08):
notice in our camera option. It'llshow you location, it'll show you the
tilt of the phone, it'll showyou the direction that the phone is being
pointed in. It grabs all ofthat data so we know more about the
siting than just what's in the video. And then we also have another tab
called the identified tab. If youclick that one right in your hand,

(04:29):
you've got one tool where you cansee all the aircraft, all the satellites,
all of the planets and the stars. You'll see icons for them and
you can highlight them and they'll giveyou more information about them so you can
be sure that what you're looking atisn't like a starlink satellite or something,
which of course are fooling a lotof people because we've got so much up
there. So it's a very robusttool that you'll have right there in your

(04:51):
hand, and it's free. Currentlyit's for the Apple Phone, so you
can go to the Apple Store andjust look for any and you'll get it.
And we're working on androids, sohopefully we'll have that out soon.
If you don't have either of those, or if you don't have you know
Apple Currently we do have the websitewhere you can go to the explore tab

(05:13):
and look at all the different statsand different sightings and videos that we're getting
in and can you upload a sitingor video on the website then you can
you can use the website to submityour siting as well. Wow, and
what what are you seeing currently inactivity? Is it largely in the West

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or yeah? You know, wehave ransom numbers, especially for an Economist
article that we were in recently.Right now, we are still basing like
with maintaining the app and growing it. This is one thing that you know,
we found and I think you knowI found even working with the nonprofits.

(05:57):
The hard part is is you needa whole staff, full time people
to run an app. You know, some of the other organizations out there
have ran across database problems because it'sreally a tough thing to do. So
we do have kind of a scrappy, smaller team really focused on the app,
keeping it up, making upgrades,getting a lot of interaction from users

(06:17):
and feedback so we can make surethe app is stable and something that people
want. But so we haven't spenta lot of time analyzing ourselves. But
also part of the point is lettingpeople get in there and crowdsource that.
So people commenting saying, hey,I did some research and I found out
your citing is this or that tohelp people. But we have some done

(06:41):
some analysis and we found you knowwhat's been found throughout the years. You
know, I run the website openmindset TV. Really it's mostly archival.
I'm not putting a whole lot ofarticles up there, but some new kind
of interviews. But for years Iwould get data and then look for where
the hotspots are, and the Southwesthas always been a hot spot. But

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something that we found which is interestingis New Mexico. For the sidings that
we've retrieved, New Mexico per populationhas more sightings than other states. So
we found that really interesting. Thatis I wonder you have any theories about

(07:26):
why that might be. It's hardto say so because south larger areas that
are not as populated, that'll probablybe a factor in that it doesn't have
as much of a population. Sowhen you know, the more sightings they
put in, then it'll that'll bea factor. However, in the Southwest

(07:47):
in general, you know Arizona,Colorado, those have been high on the
list. I think it's because thereare places with there's a lot of military
bases out in the Southwest, butthere's also clear skies and more people outside
to be able to look for objects. So I think that's one of the
factors that would be true of NewMexico as well. But you know,

(08:11):
I haven't seen like necessarily big flapsor big incidents that have been reported in
particular in New Mexico. So it'ssomething we really got to drill down in
that I found really interesting and differentthan what I've seen in the past.
That's interesting. So I remember likeyears ago when we were having these big

(08:33):
UFO flaps in certain areas. Sowhat you're saying is we're not necessarily seeing
that now. Yeah, I haven'tran across any now. In the Daily
Mail, we did have an articlethere where we got a bunch of interviews
or inner videos from the Southwest.These were in Nevada, Arizona, California.

(08:56):
But we were able to do someanalysis, or at least I did
myself with my buddy Ben Hansen,who I work with, and we essentially
found it was likely the second stageof a SpaceX rocket. So that's the
other thing that we're finding. We'regetting a ton of videos of Starlink and
SpaceX rockets. Because the activities SpaceXare doing in the in the sky,

(09:20):
you know, are are unprecedented.They're launching rockets, you know, on
a weekly basis, at least sometimesa daily basis. They're Starlink stuff,
you know, the Starlink satellites.If there are thousands of them up there,
and they look really odd. Theylook odd to pilots in the sky,
and you know, from the groundyou'll see a whole train. Yeah,

(09:41):
satellites they look really odd. Andthen the rocket blast because they use
kind of a different kind of propellantthat has some kind of ash in it
that makes this big, huge,what they're calling sky jellyfish, these big
things that So that is definitely it'skind of causing a issue because a lot
of the sightings and you know nowthese days when you see something weird in

(10:05):
the sky, there are more weirdthings in the sky. It's just because
we're doing a lot more weird stuffin the sky. I remember one day
evening I was coming home from dinner, and I live in the Los Angeles
area, and I got out ofthe car with my friend and I I
looked up and there was this longtrail of whites, you know, waving

(10:28):
its way, you know, inthe sky over my house, and it
just like took my breath away fora moment because I thought I was seeing
something. And then I took apicture and my friends said, no,
that's just Starlink. And then Ilooked at a lot of other Starlink videos

(10:48):
and photos and yeah, it wasYeah, that's really funny. Out here
in Arizona. We see them heretoo. They look huge, even though
they're launched out of California. Andthere have been like three times now where
I go to the grocery store.It's probably because it's after work, about
six or seven or something, andI see these on the way to the

(11:11):
grocery store. So the timing's justright. And unfortunately, you know,
the grocery store has all these peopleoutside buzzing, and I've got to burst
their bubble and say, actually,that's a rocket. Guys. Now,
you know, there's some of themwho definitely seemed to bummy. They think
we're being invaded. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's it's pretty interesting,
but yeah, I think it canalso be obscuring things that we might want

(11:37):
to see, right, And itdoes make it more difficult because that,
along with drones, there's so manyof them in the sky, and they're
so often misidentified for something unusual thatit's easy for the public or skeptics or
debunkers to say, oh, thatwas probably a drone, Oh that was
probably a rocket, and not necessarilygive it a harder look look when actually

(12:01):
it's something more odd. Yeah.Yeah, Now can I ask you,
have you ever had your own personalexperience or sighting that has kind of driven
this interest for you? Well,that's interesting because when I got involved with
this, it was more of akind of journalistic curiosity. I was a

(12:24):
journalism student ran across a enthusiast whowas annoying to me because they wouldn't shut
up about UFOs and all these peoplewho thought it was credible. But that
person got through to me because Istarted looking more into it and I was
like, Hey, this guy's right. You know, there are a lot
of stories not being told, andas a journalism student at the time,

(12:46):
I was really compelled to cover this. It wasn't until maybe ten years later
that I had my first unusual sighting. I probably had maybe three, not
a lot, maybe more three orfour. It's just the ones that I've
had are not that terribly exciting.They are objects at a distance. But
my first one was at the UFOSkyWatch in Hooper, Colorado, and I

(13:11):
was going out there because they allegedlyget a lot of sightings and I wanted
to get you to see what itwas like, and of course, being
kind of someone who writes about thistopic, it was kind of a must
do since I was living in Coloradoat the time. I really hit it
off with the lady Judy, whois running the place. So when we
got there, I was inside justyapping it up but with her, and

(13:33):
it started getting dark, and Iheard my sister say, Hey, I
think I see a satellite, butI could tell in her voice that she
wasn't confident in that and that itwas something strange. So I quickly went
outside. We all did, andthere was a very bright light just east
of Hooper, Colorado, or theGreat Sand Dunes and the Sungunated Crysto Mountains,

(13:54):
and this light was just cruising alongabove the mountains. Definitely not a
satellite, definitely too low to bea satellite, very bright, and then
it kind of just faded out whenit got directly east to us, which
was kind of very strange kind ofbehavior. Some people said they kind of
felt that it made a jogging.To me, it kind of like got

(14:16):
brighter and dimmer and brighter and dimmeruntil it dimmed out. So we all
had different impressions of what happened whenit left. And what was really weird
is that we're really excited. Thiswas about dusk. We're really excited about
it, so we're all talking aboutit. Soon after, probably within half
an hour, it was completely darkout and I noticed a satellite to the

(14:41):
uh northwest and then one to thesouthwest. But they were both moving east,
and they were both moving kind ofone was moving you know, southeast,
the other northeast, and they crisscrossedright over where our siding was,
which is weird behavior for satellites.I just called them satellites because they were

(15:03):
moving slow and steady in one direction. But that was really odd. Yeah,
you know we're that was in Colorado, correct, Hooper, Colorado at
the UFO watchtower, which is stillthere. Wow. Yeah. Yeah,
and that was twenty at least twentyyears ago. Yeah, outside the United

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States, have you noticed any trendsin you know what countries that yep,
a little bit more, not inothers necessarily. I mean we what we're
finding, because we do get sightingsinternationally and we've tracked them internationally. But

(15:48):
of course because we're mostly English focused, you know, mostly the English speaking
countries, so we're getting a lotof UK, Australia, Canada, those
type of places, Scotland, Ireland, so we're getting all of those sightings.
We do get some from other countriesoccasionally. We just recently got a

(16:11):
German one, actually we shared onour social media a couple of days ago.
But we are trying to integrate sometranslation services and we're doing more outreach
with the international media to try toget more attention and more sightings from internationally.

(16:33):
Oh yeah, that would be reallythat would be really cool. Yeah.
Fortunately, we got an article inBelgium News, a big Belgium media
outlet recently, and that spread outthere pretty big, so we got more
sightings from out there, So we'retrying to have more of a global reach.
Oh that's really cool. I spenta lot of time over in this

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one little area of southern France andthere's a mountain there where people constantly claim
to see UFOs going in and out. Wow. And it's called Mount Bougerash
and it actually was the inspiration forJules Verne's journey to the Center of the

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Earth, and it was also theoriginal inspiration to Steven Spielberg for close Encounters
Interesting and it was too expensive tobring everybody over and shoot there, so
they ended up at the Devil's Towerthere in the United States. But there's
been so many it was you know, that area is supposed to be the

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inspiration for Lewis Carroll's Through the LookingGlass or Alice in Wonderland because it's so
many strange occurrences and things like that. But I did was speaking with someone
yesterday who's actually British, so Englishspeaking, he's in England, and he
got some footage I think of aUFO in that region recently, so maybe

(18:15):
I should have him send it toEnigma. Yeah, definitely. You know,
the more the merrier, I mean, it's really important that we record
that data and information, so likeyou've been mentioning, we can do those
trends and do that analysis and thenalso you know, have when researchers are

(18:37):
looking and doing their work, theymight be able to correlate you know,
sigdning with one that they've had andstart to figure things out. And that's
what's going to be really important,I think in this day and age,
you know, and in my experience, you can only rely on yourself for
information. There's a lot of people, especially these days, is trying to

(19:00):
get information elsewhere and it just youjust don't get it. It's not coming.
So that's why I've always liked tobe in groups like you know,
the these UFO researching groups. Iwas a board member for SEU and help
found that organization, and you know, just kind of got to roll up
your sleeves and do the work yourselves, gather that data, do that analysis,

(19:25):
and that's you know, when wecan get the evidence our own and
present that, that's what's going tobe most compelling. And we don't have
to rely on anyone else, especiallythese days with the technology getting cheaper and
smaller and more accessible, you know, we've just got to use our phones,
do whatever we can to gather thatdata and you know, demonstrate on

(19:48):
our own without having to rely onany other organization. And when you report
a siding on the app, whatis it that you're actually doing? Are
you giving like your own analysis?Are you saying okay, this happened at
four o'clock PM. Yeah, greatquestion. What we do is we first

(20:12):
ask where the location is, andwe do allow people to make the location
anonymous. So in other words,let's say you say it's one two three
Main Street in Phoenix, Arizona.But if you say, I don't want
the direct location show and then we'lljust show Phoenix, Arizona. Wow,

(20:33):
just because you know, people mightnot want their exact address being in there,
which is and then we'll ask them, you know, for description.
We do allow people if they don'twant to write out their description, they
can click the microphone and do anaudio description. Helpful. Yeah, that
way people will be able to listento it. But we also go in

(20:56):
there and transcribe it so people caneither read or listen to your description.
From there, we get into whatwe call structured data. So these are
the questions that we need answers to. So we'll ask specifically, you know,
what was the shape, what wasthe color, how far away did
it look, a little bit ofinformation about the user. Are you military

(21:19):
or a pilot? Were there anyother sensors that you were able to use?
Currently, there's not a lot ofpeople using radar or infrared or something
like that, but there are someso once in a while we'll get that,
and of course we in the futurewe want to encourage people to use
other sensors and things like that,so that's when we'll ask kind of specific

(21:40):
questions and then we'll get to theend where we'll let them know what's the
best way to contact them. Butwe do allow people to remain anonymous if
they want to, so we won'tshare their name and information. But we
do like to contact people because oncewe post it, we'll send people a
link and then that link will openup either on the website or if they

(22:03):
have the app, it'll open upon the app, and they'll be able
to see their signing posted on thewebsite. And you know, we have
gotten because there's always this sort ofthing, people accusing people of hiding information
or anything. But anybody can tryto submit their sighting and they'll see very
quickly. We try to get backto you within ten minutes. But you
know, we manually look at everysigning before we post it to make sure

(22:26):
there isn't like sensitive information you've accellentallyput in there. You know, we
don't want people's emails and stuff likethat out there, so we'll look at
them first and we will make surehoaxes don't go through or jokes that are
not real ones. But then you'llsee your post and reports of signings that

(22:48):
were no video or photographic evidence existsthat. Yeah, we've still got a
lot of those. So there areI think right now we're at about forty
percent come with a video or picture, which is great, I mean a
huge number, but we still acceptthose that don't. And some of those

(23:11):
are great too, because what Ihave found is when people don't have a
photo or a picture, they giveus a better description, which I love,
and then you have a great narrativethere. And it's unfortunate and I'm
trying to encourage people and we needto do more of this is if you
have a video or a picture,don't rely on that. Still give us

(23:33):
a story. Let us know,you know, when did you first see
it, when did you see itgo away? You know what were some
of the characteristics in your own words? So yeah, those bigger narratives because
some people will say, oh,just look at the video or just look
at the picture. Well that's great, but we need more information than that,
we want to hear what your experiencewas. Yeah. Yeah, and

(23:56):
is there room in the reports forany any sensations or anything that the observer
might have felt or not felt,or whether they felt like they were being
directly uh communicated with or spotted bythe UFOs. Yeah, that's really this

(24:21):
description where you can put more ofthose type of things and people do so.
Yeah, people have let us knowknow, those kind of details that
should they have those, Yeah,like how did that make you feel?
Or did you you know, feelany odds sense it because a lot of
times people will say they felt anelectrical h field or something around them,

(24:45):
you know, or certain things wouldhappen and everything would get really quiet,
you know. And some things areyou know, not observable with the eye,
but through other senses and other sensations. So this is all really really
exciting because it could be you know, once and for all, we've got

(25:08):
a great central data collection place thatwe can all look at and learn from
it. It's really cool. Yeah, I'm excited about getting these videos because
so far, you know a lotof them are we're able to explain them
as rockets or SpaceX and stuff likethat, or you know, sometimes they're

(25:33):
kind of interesting, just not interestingenough to be sure. But we've got
at least a couple that are reallyinteresting. We had one in New York
that a lady saw from an aircraftthat got into the news and made kind
of a lot of news, butwe did our own analysis. We actually
got a couple researchers to look atthis for US, Ben Hanson and doctor

(25:57):
Doug Butner with See You. Theydid determine it was probably a balloon because
they weren't able to rule that out, and we did a Twitter spaces on
that with the witness in them,so we might have figured that one out.
But there's a couple others, oneout of Washington that I have been
working with some ball lightning scientists totry to get them more information because it

(26:19):
looks like this plasma orb and evenmore exciting I featured on my podcast irregular
kind of Podcast that I started upwhere it's over Signal Mountain and Tennessee and
it's really hard to explain. Ithink that this might be our first one

(26:41):
where it's going to go down asunidentified, which is a good thing because
that means that we can explain whatit is just on the website right now.
It is on the website. Infact, for the listeners, I'll
let you know it's a Enigma numbertwo eight three five three two two three

(27:03):
five three. Yeah, I'll sendyou the link to the siding because if
you have that number, you canlook it up. But you also all
the links are the same there,Enigma Labs, dot Io forward slash,
Sighting forward slash the Enigma number whichis two eight two three five three,
and that way you can look atany siding using that formula. But yeah,

(27:26):
this is a great one, reallyreally interesting. Cannot explain this so
much here to you. What doyou see there? What's it look like?
Yeah, it essentially is this guy'sgot a camera set up and it's
not the best quality security camera,but it's looking out over his house and

(27:49):
there two truck. It's framed bya couple of trees, one on the
left and one on the right,and at first you see a starfield.
The total video is about ten minutes, even though the sighting itself it's about
five minutes, which is long fora sighting. And what I love about
this is you see a bunch ofstars and then you see something come in

(28:10):
from the bottom right, moving towardsthe center. At very first glance,
it just looks like a satellite becauseit's just one luminous light. But then
it quickly turns up and goes morestraight up. Then it pauses for a
few seconds, then it moves upagain, and it pauses for two and
a half minutes, just sitting there. And what I love about this is

(28:33):
for two and a half minutes,it's one solid light that looks just like
any of the other stars, whichis really interesting to me. One of
the things that makes that interesting tome is that if this is something anomalous,
that it can easily cloak itself justby sitting there and looking like a

(28:53):
star. We don't know what itis. But after two and a half
minutes, it moves across the screento the left, almost all the way
off the screen, but then quicklyturns around and kind of flares up,
gets right, turns around, goesback on itself, moving back across the
screen, and then exiting the screenon the right. So it's a long

(29:15):
time, definitely anomalous movement. Doesn'tmove like you would expect any aircraft to
move or drone. It's really ahead scratcher. Cannot figure this one out.
Did you say that it was takenout of a plane window. No,
this one was from a security cameraand it was in the IR mode.

(29:38):
Oh whoa okay, yeah, greatvideo. Really interesting. In fact,
I can I know here, Ican share it to you personally in
our little chatir I think, canyou get it? Can you put it
on the screen? I could?Yeah, if you want me to share
the screen, I can do that. I would love for you to do
that if you if you know howI do, Okay, so let me

(30:02):
do that, all right. Yeah. I'm excited to do that, to
share with people what it looks likebecause I love this video and this is
what gets me really excited. Andyou know, this is why I keep
saying, we don't have to waitfor government or anything. If government is
not going to share anything, fine, we don't need them. We'll do
this ourselves. Yeah. I don'tthink it's gonna ever come from the government.

(30:27):
Yeah, let's see. I thinkit keeping it quiet too long or
trying to Yeah, here it is. So there's a sighting there. It's
kind of a smaller window. Ifyou go to the website and again the
url Enigma Labs dot io forward slash, siding forward slash two eight two three

(30:49):
five three. I will oh,the video is already playing here, but
it's about a minute and forty secondsforward it and you'll see the object entering
in the bottom right right down here, and you'll see it's moving up starts

(31:11):
to turn. And that's what gotme excited, because you know, a
satellite's not going to turn till thenyou thought it was maybe a satellite.
There's a lot of points that getexcite. And then right here it stops
for about ten seconds, just sitsthere, and then it moves up again.
Now it's moving up, and it'sjust kind of moving slowly. And

(31:34):
that's another thing. It doesn't moveat a consistent speed, but it moves
slowly till it gets about to themiddle of the screen here and it stops
again right here, So it stops. So it's just that little, this
little got right here. Oh okay. So and because it's little, you

(32:00):
know, it seems like it's farfrom the screen, but it sits here
for two and a half minutes.And this is the part where I mean,
you have these other two stars hereand it's kind of in a making
a triangle there from the appearance fromthis angle, and it's just sitting there.
So if you were to walk outsideand look up at the sky,
you would think, oh, there'sjust a bunch of stars up there.

(32:20):
There's nothing weird. Little do youknow that this little guy right here is
not a star. So if Ifast forward this a couple of minutes,
because it sits there for a coupleof minutes, oh there it went.
Yeah, I went too far there, so let me back up. That's

(32:40):
interesting. And so this is froma security camera you're saying, correct,
And we are in contact with thewitness. That's the good part because who
noticed who knows noticed it? Thewitness? Yes, So the witness reviewed

(33:05):
his video. Luckily, you know, he goes and does that, and
he was able to see that therewas something strange here. You know what's
crazy, though, is I thinkif there it goes? So now it's
starting to move again, and it'smoving to the left across the screen.
So we'll let it go and dothat while we talk. But it does

(33:25):
this, It moves across and you'llsee what it gets about. Right over
here, it gets brightened and turnsaround. It's cruising right now. Yeah,
wow, that is I'm just notsure if, yeah, reviewing this

(33:47):
security footage, that I would haveeven spotted that, yeah, because I'm
so bad. Turns out he didthis because he had other sightings, so
he was looking for UFOs. Ohokay, so yeah, you're already looking
through the footage for anything anomalous.Yeah, and so this is great.
You know, this is a greatlesson for people out there. If you're

(34:10):
seeing weird stuff, you know,set up a camera and maybe, like
this, you'll catch it on cameraand then all of us can benefit from
that. And you know, evenif it's determined, there's not enough data
to say for sure what this is. It's weird and it's very inspiring that,

(34:30):
hey, there really are weird thingsup in the sky, you know,
definitely. So now it's gone andwhat is that? You know?
What I think is interesting is alot of people focus on the what we're
not hearing or their disappointments, butif you look at the silver lining on

(34:51):
the positive we heard from the government. And remember I spoke with lou E
Alisondo a lot. There was aperiod of time where I was speaking to
them on us daily and he,of course was the guy who first came
out and said he was working withthe Pentagon on these these sightings, and
he was saying, this is disclosure. Disclosure was that we do have uap

(35:14):
UFOs are a real thing. Thegovernment admits to it. They admit there's
a problem that they need to payattention to it. Further, what we
did hear from Sean kor Patrick,who is running Arrow the Pentagon project,
is that they are having issues wherethey're having these metallic orbs that they've seen
and they don't know what they are, and that they seem to be able

(35:36):
to come into secured airspace and leaveat will. That's very important. And
because everybody's like, tell me aboutaliens. I want to hear about aliens,
they totally miss that point. Andthis what we just saw as an
example of what he's talking about.If we don't know what they are,
it takes more research, it takesmore data. This guy had a very

(35:59):
cheap can that he recorded this with. If he had a better camera,
if he had more sensors, we'dbe able to get more scientific data about
what that was, and we maybe able to determine what it is,
whether it be alien or otherwise.But we'd be finally able to prove what
it is, and that's I thinkthe future of this field and where we've
got to move to. And that'swhat gets me really excited about working with

(36:22):
Enigma and gathering this sort of data. Yeah, I mean it's definitely needed
and it's exciting. Well, I'mnot going to wait for the government.
I've been waiting for twenty five oddyears that I've been in this field and
nothing has come of any of anyof this, So I'm not going to
sit around the way. I'm goingto keep working for it. Yeah.

(36:44):
Absolutely, I think we've got todo it ourselves. And you know,
the people that are having the sightingsare the one with the ones that have
all the data. So if wecan get people to report their information and
we'll all have a lot more knowledgeabout this phenomenon and what it may or

(37:09):
may not be. Now, hasEnigma or you taken any kind of a
position on what you think most likelythis is. Is it extraterrestrial, is
it interdimensional or someone? No?No on both cases. So Enigma definitely

(37:35):
has not taken a position. UAPRjust that unidentified. Yeah, they are.
Their point is that we're gathering datawith the phone and gathering information to
try to make that determination. AndI agree with that stance, and that
is my personal stance as well.In that you know, either as a
scientist, I'm not a scientist,but of course I've helped with the set

(38:00):
up the scientific Coalition for you APstudies. But beyond that, I've also
as a journalist freelancing, I've workedwith a lot of scientists and science writing.
However, I am a journalist,and the same goes true for journalists.
You can't it's it's wrong or dangerousto make assumptions because you don't want

(38:22):
to set up a bias. It'sbest to gather the data, gather the
facts, and then make the determination. Same goes true of law enforcement,
so we're still in the fact gatheringarea. I definitely would not want to
say it's aliens because I can't saythat for sure. Once we can prove
that, then we'll have that.But what if it's not. What if

(38:43):
it's people from the future, Whatif it's completely multi dimensional, someone from
another dimension, What if it's anothersociety or civilization here? And then the
tough question that the government has totackle is what if this is an enemy?
What if this is a human terrestrialtechnology from the Russians or the Chinese,

(39:06):
and it's hard to say it definitelyis not until you can prove otherwise.
And that's kind of their position.Hey, we can't prove it's not
Russian or Chinese, so it wouldbe irresponsible of us to share that with
the public. So they are ina bit of a rough spot there,
and that's why it's like, Okay, well you do your thing and we'll

(39:27):
do ours. People get mad atme when I say, you know,
they've got a position on this,why aren't you saying its aliens? Because
I don't have proof of that.And if you think it's that, prove
it. And they get mad atme. And I don't really understand that
because I'm telling myself that I've gotto prove it before I say that,
So I've got to hold myself tothat standard as well. And that's what

(39:49):
I'm trying to do, is gatherthat data to prove it. And you
shouldn't be upset with that position either, because if you're confident one hundred percent
it's aliens, then what I'm doingby gathering data to prove what's going on,
I'm going to prove you right,right, if that's the case,
so you should be happy that we'redoing what we're doing. The facts will
support it if that's what it isexactly. Yeah, that's interesting that you

(40:16):
get a little pressure, a littlepushback on that. I mean, I
think I would be more wary ofthe whole situation if you did say you
knew what it was, because Iwouldn't believe you. You know, I

(40:37):
don't think we yet know what itis. But what about people who feel
that they've had some sort of abductionexperience. Yeah, that's a real difficult
am in that there are thousands,tens of thousands. There are a lot

(41:00):
of people. The public don't realizehow many people I think, who are
claiming or believe they've had these experiences. So I do think it's something to
be taken serious. Can we saywhat just that information that's happening? No.
The other hard part is that youknow, if people are being taken

(41:22):
out of their homes, it's notbeing witnessed or anything else happening outside of
that. That's why people like Johnmaccot perhaps it's a non physical experience,
But I don't think we can alsosay that these experiences aren't happening in some
manner. So I believe it needsto be taken seriously, it needs to
be studied some more again, sowe can figure that out. It's I

(41:46):
think it's a bit tougher I've dealt. I've worked with a lot of people
who believe they've had these experiences andthe best I can typically do is send
them to a therapist who is opento listening to their stories and making them
feel better because it can be reallytraumatic. These people seem to genuinely have,

(42:09):
you know, experience something traumatic andthey need a way to be able
to live with it and move on. And I think that's what's really important
and that we have to not forgetis the human side. And sometimes people
are further traumatized by people in thisfield kind of oh my gosh, your

(42:30):
the evil aliens are trying to useyou to take over the planet or any
of this other stuff that's not goingto help someone. Yeah, So it's
a difficult one. It's a toughone, and I think we do need
a lot more mental health professionals gettinginvolved, not just to help people cope

(42:51):
with it or brush it off,but to also do some real work to
figure out what's going on. Yeah, I have to say it was in
a lot of that research been eonsgo now it seems like. But I
was one of the founders of agroup called Zero Close Encounters Research Organizations,

(43:14):
which I believe still exists as aninternational organization now. But I did find
that, you know, people thathave some unexplainable occurrences going on. But
also I did see, you know, I felt like people were being sort

(43:37):
of encouraged in whatever possible mental disorderthey might have, and this sort of
gave them something to explain away,you know, all that weirdness they were
feeling. You know, of courseit's not me, it's aliens. But
I did see that there were peoplethat probably we're having some other issues that

(44:02):
needed to be attend to by realprofessionals, which I was not. Yeah,
I agree with you. I wentand got I actually got a certificate.
It took months, but I gotcertified as a hypnotherapist. Yeah,
and you maybe found the same thingthat for therapy, it's really helpful because

(44:23):
you can walk someone too and havethem manifest a non real reality for them,
fantasy essentially, where they're able toexpress their emotions and get passed whatever
is happening to them emotionally that theywant to get past. But when you're
doing a regression, you're doing thesame thing. The mind is creating these

(44:47):
mind scapes that just don't exist,and it's impossible to say what you're getting
back, whether it exists or not. Especially when you start to do this
these regressions or hypnotis therapy and youfind out it's so easy for the mind.
I mean, you're you probably foundthe same thing. Almost every time
you bring someone out of regression,they're like, oh my gosh, I

(45:08):
don't know where my brain came upwith that stuff. I don't know how.
That's so weird and they're blown awaythemselves. But yeah, to your
point. Uh, And also itjust shows how a lot of the research
that's been done in this field hasbeen really off base, and that for
example, having people fill out formsto prove whether or not they're having alien

(45:32):
experiences, because that alone the brainand the person's going to want to please
memory hardening exactly exactly, So there'sreally need professionals. The idea that a
hypnosis i mean, confabulation is absolutelya huge possibility, and also the idea

(45:59):
for or anyone going under hypnosis,they want to please the hypnotherapist. That's
just the way it works. Exactly. If they know that the hypnotherapist is
researching alien intervention of some kind,then that's largely what they're going to come

(46:22):
up with. Or that's danger.I'm not saying every time, but the
danger is that just because of thevery nature of hypnosis, that they'll give
the therapist what they think the therapistwants. So it's just not as good

(46:42):
of a research tool, you know, like you said, maybe therapy,
Yeah, I can see that takingsomeone through a situation that was traumatic and
sort of having them re see itin a different way or to please get
rid of the of the trauma fromit. But yeah, to find out

(47:06):
information, I don't think. So. I agree with you one thousand percent
for the exact reasons you just outlinedright there, and it's very well documented,
like you've also obviously done the researchwhere yeah, they want to please
the person they're talking to. Soyou've got to be able to mitigate those
things, and there are ways todo it, but it's really difficult,

(47:29):
and you need professionals who understand allthese mechanisms and how this all work.
And you also understand the possible otherexplanations in terms of medical or mental health,
right, you know, because Ijust feel like a lot of people
sort of get mishandled in this fieldbecause they're getting some attention on what their

(47:54):
problem is, but they're not gettingthe correct, correct thing. And know,
you know, not trying to dissanybody out there, but that's just
what I found personally, and Icouldn't, you know, in good conscience,
continue to use that method to tryto get information about people's right.

(48:19):
Yeah, I'm probably like you.I went into this not knowing any of
this. I went into this justlike, well, how does this work?
You know, would I be ableto learn to be able to make
that determination as to what's real andwhat's not? And unfortunately I found out
that it's just much less reliable thanI had even thought, you know,
going into it. Yeah. Yeah, And so you said you do take

(48:45):
those accounts on We don't. Wedon't take entity accounts. Oh, just
take sightings. We're not tackling thatissue right now. Yeah, it's kind
of a first steps, you know, Let's let's deal with these these things
that are being seen and hopefully recordedfirst, and that's what we're focused on

(49:10):
and the phone can do that.And that's kind of the basis of the
company, is you know, utilizingthe technology that is right there in your
phone. And unfortunately the phone isn'tgoing to be the best tool for your
potential abduction experience. You'll you'll needyou'll want to grow to groups like zero

(49:31):
or others who take it seriously andcan help you do more that way.
Yeah. Yeah, So I've gotyour your website address Enigma Lamps dot io
scrolling across the screen. If anyof you out there listening or watching or

(49:52):
both, yeah, on your ownsigning, please report it to Enigma Lambs
and help us build as data.It's gonna be good for us all exactly.
Yeah, And on there you canlook at go to the explore tab
and that's where you're gonna find allthe data and information. And we have
a lot of really good articles inour library on very credible cases as well,

(50:16):
because that's another thing we can't forgetand I think that the government hasn't
done very good job with is highlightingthat blue book. For example, there
were seven hundred cases that they triedto debunk their hardest and they could not,
and those are really good cases.And there's a lot of other really

(50:37):
good cases out there that are thetype of material that really motivate so many
of us too to keep looking becausewe know something's going on. I mean,
I'm pretty sure I saw the cashLandrum case on there. Yep,
cash Landrum. I mean to me, it's like, oh my gosh,
that was so terrible. Yes,with so many physical ailments and things after

(51:01):
their exposure to radiation or whatever itwas from this incident, and it's like
they still couldn't get the attention thatthey deserved and needed on this case.
Yeah. Yeah, a couple otherswe have on there that I'm really proud
of, a lot of them thatI'm really proud of, but are right

(51:22):
up on nuclear facilities and US Yeah, randallschim and others. But we also,
you know, highlight how the CIAand the Army were the ones back
in the Blue Book days who raisedthat alarm. They were the ones that
were saying, hey, we're gettingthese incursions over our most securing air space.

(51:44):
So for nuclear facilities and nuclear weaponsstorage areas, this is a big
deal and we need to pay attention. So it wasn't you know, UFO
researchers that were the first to saythis is a thing. It was,
it was the military and the CIAthemselves. Wow, and we're all these
years later, I imagine that wasquite some time ago. Where all these

(52:07):
years later and there's still not reallyyep, further down the road at least
right. And you know, anotherthing, we do hear a lot about
drones and drone incursions, but itand it does go hand in hand in
that people who were trying to pushthe government into looking at this were saying,

(52:30):
look, there's a lot of it. There are a lot of things
flying over our bases, and we'renot paying attention. And in some cases,
just because someone thinks it's a UFO, it could be a drone and
we're not paying attention because we're like, oh, UFO, that's silly.
Yeah, while it's a drone andit's low technology that you know, an
enemy could be using. And sothat does make them pay more attention.

(52:52):
And the SCU there's a gentleman whowrote a paper and you can see it
there on their website who did analysison the drones that were being reported and
then large percentage of those large Imean by something like fifteen to twenty percent
of these alleged drone incidents, thecharacteristics of the object reported fall outside of

(53:19):
what drones can do, So whatwere those So even in looking at this,
we're finding that, you know,there are unidentified kind of reports in
there. Yeah, yeah, someare drones, but maybe some are not
right. Some of them aren't goingfaster, they're flying higher, they're further

(53:42):
away, they're they're doing things thatdrones can't do. So of course the
big question is what are those.Yeah, yeah, speaking of drones,
I've heard stories I don't know howcredible, but that UFOs have been seen
around, you know, over Ukraine, over the fighting over the nuclear facility

(54:07):
there, their energy facility. Haveyou seen or heard anything coming from that
part of the world. I've hearda lot, but it's and this is
where it makes it really difficult withthe proliferation of drones, especially in that
conflict. I mean, I thinkthe world has all of our eyes have

(54:28):
been opened to this new world ofdrone technology and what it can do,
and in this case, it's playeda huge role. Obviously in the war.
We've all seen in social media thesevideos, these drone videos of drones
going in and you know, attackingand taking out you know, Russian positions
or snell. So it's fascinating.So when you've got all of this going

(54:52):
on, it makes it even moredifficult to figure out what it is in
the sky. So it's really difficult. Again, until you can get some
really good video or telemetry or dataon a particular event, it's difficult to
say, yeah, yeah, andwhat about in the Middle East? What

(55:13):
about in the areas of Israel andGaza? Have have we had any reported
signings, not that I'm aware of. I have not. I can't think
of a good credible case. Ican't think of any case. Actually Middle
East. We have had cases inparticular, you know, there have had

(55:37):
even more recently a case that cameout from the DoD. But a lot
of people, even you know,very UFO friendly researchers, think that those
are either balloons or smudge. Butthey just don't look like something unusual.
So we haven't gotten any great one. Although there have been at least one

(56:00):
or two of these metallic or situationsthat Kirkpatrick, the head of Arrow the
UAP group out of the Pentagon,have said, they haven't been able to
figure out yet. So who knowsyou know, a lot more work needs
to be done on that. Andagain, are we going to get the

(56:21):
details on those incidents from the government. Probably not, So we're just going
to have to do like that gentlemandid in Signal or Signal Mountain, Tennessee.
Put up our own cameras and getour own video and data. Well,
this is great. I want tothank you for coming on my pleasure.

(56:43):
Also, thank you for providing thisservice to the world. Really,
because we're going to be looking atthe whole world in all the signings and
I hope you can see that mannerscrolling across the screen. Screen it says
Enigma Labs dot io go over there. You can download the app from there

(57:07):
right now. It's available on ioand soon to be hopefully available on Android
as well. We're working on ithand. Thank you so much, my
pleasure. Thank you. Well,we'll have to do this again at some
point and for sure, yeah,give you some updates. Yep, absolutely,

(57:31):
all right, good night everybody.Thank you,