October 19, 2024 • 58 mins
NightVision Historian James Martin returns with tales of a secret spy ring headed up by none other than George Washington. Their operation thwarted attacks and other operations by the British to facilitate America's winning the Revolutionary War.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Night Vision Vision. Following clues left by our ancestors, we
unbury the past to reveal a knowledge of unfathomable value,
putting us just a little closer to our own true birthrights.
From the secret history of a possible bloodline of Jesus Christ,
to a secret history of America's founders, to the secret
(00:24):
history of extraterrestrial interaction on our planet. Here to bring
light to the night. Your host for night Vision Radio
Renee Barnett.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oops, I'm muted. Hi, everybody, Welcome to night Vision again.
I hope this is not your first time, but if
it is, we sure welcome you and hope this is
not your best. Got a great show planned for tonight.
We've got our wonderful historian James Martin back talking about
some of the mysteries of history. Tonight, we're going to
(01:09):
be looking into the founding fathers and actually the father
of our country, George Washington. We might to be or
James might be imparting some information that you have not heard.
He certainly tells me things that I don't know every
single day, and this was one of them that I
(01:30):
was not really fully aware of once he started talking
about it, and then I started looking into it on
my own. I did see that, you know, I had
a vague recollection of something certainly not something that we
taught in history classes at school. Before we get started
with the show, I wanted to let you all know
(01:50):
that we're very excited that we've just established a brand
new KGRA TikTok channel and I hope you'll make your
way on over there and fall. We've got some excitios
that we're loading up every single day, multiple videos each day,
and we are going to be streaming some show some
shows live from there. I think very soon in the
(02:14):
near future, I'm going to be doing an interview with
Bishop James long Uh and we're going to live stream it,
so it'll be both on Bishop Longs TikTok and the
kg R A TikTok channel, and you know me our
other formats will be live as well also if you
(02:34):
get a chance to check us out on Instagram, because
everything is going up there as well, and we've had
lots and lots of views and a great response, and
I'm really happy about it, really proud of it, and
our colleague Maximo over own in Argentina is the one
that's really putting in all the work, and I'm just
(02:57):
sort of dabbling every now and then and helping him out.
But he's really the force behind the new TikTok channel.
I'll go over there and give us a follow so
show Maximo your appreciation for what he's doing, because he's
doing a heck of a job. But before we go
any further, I think we got to get started on
(03:18):
tonight's show because our time is always so limited and
there's always so much to talk about, and it's been
a long time since James has been here. Hi, James, Hi,
if you.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Want morning, afternoon, evening wherever you are? Good to be back. Yeah,
certainly an interesting show coming up.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yes, Yeah, it's so good to be back, you know,
recording new shows. I've been off for a couple of weeks.
I mean, LOFE has just seemed to have happened and
one thing after another. But hopefully things are mellowing out
a little bit for both of us and we'll be
able to spend a little more time with our viewers
(04:04):
from here on out. I got some other great shows
coming as well, going to have Court Lindel on again.
He says he's found some big secret about renal a chateau,
so I'm going to let him break it on night Vision.
And then also coming up, we've got Danielle Agnew the
Psychic Medium, and everyone loves it when Danielle comes on
(04:26):
because she just sort of bursts on the screen like
a big ball of sunshine and it's really interesting. And
she's going to tell us about some recent interviews that
she has done with an extraterrestrial and interviews with angels,
(04:46):
so we'll see what that's all about. I'm certainly all
ears in all eyes if she's got any photographic evidence
as well, But anyway, that's Danielle. We love her. So anyhow, Jeane,
we are going to be talking today about the father
of the United States of America, George Washington, and you know,
(05:11):
I learned a little bit about him. It seems like
each year most of it from people in England, not
in this country. But what are you going to tell
us tonight that we don't know? Is this about us
spy ring?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yes, but the cool paspiring. So my interest with this
actually it started off with research for a book specifically
in fact, to do with the Newport Towers. If you've
if you haven't already, you know there's a book out
(05:51):
there which was caught between me and Simulus Murphy called Uncharted,
And towards the end of that book, we look at
the Newport Tower and some historians had suggested, you know,
the Newport Tower was built by someone called Benedict Arnold,
(06:12):
not that Benedict Arnold, now the great grandfather of the
infamous Benedict Arnold, and that that led me down a
bit of a rabbit hole actually looking at you know,
what what did this Benedett Ou, the infamous Benedict Andald,
you know, how did he end up well betraying the
(06:34):
infant United States not even a country at this point?
What led him to defect essentially to the British side?
And this is where we came across the cool perspiring.
So I suppose that, you know, if we want to
start off really, you know, before George Washington became honest George,
(06:57):
he was actually involved in a bit of honesty. And
that is to say, George Washington was the well America's
first spy master. He we, like I sayd we we
know him as honest George, but actually he was involved
in well a lot of subterfuse and espionage and all
(07:20):
of this, so right, that depends on.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
He did it on behalf of the of the new country. Yes,
but he was sneaking around on the enemy.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Right Yeah, well not him necessarily, but he was directing
quite a lot of espionage. So I mean, the first person,
if we have a look at what happened before the
Corpa spy ring, there is someone who I think I
think he's known to a few people. This is someone
(07:59):
called Nathan in Hale. Oh yeah, you know, and again
you know my knowledge and Nathan Hale started off with
I'm sure there was a US Navy ship, the US
S Nathan Hale, I think you know, sorl of action
or did whatever. But anyway, this Nathan Hale, for those
(08:21):
who don't know, was essentially a message was put up
by George Washington during the Well I'm saying that from
a British perspective, that little squabble that we had called
Theationary War. But a message that going to a material operation. Yeah,
(08:44):
words like that, but a message that is going to
essentially to for a volunteer. Really on September eighth, seventeen
seventy six, and the calls for a volunteer was essentially
to go behind British lines before what we would then
(09:08):
know was the Battle of Harlem Heights to gather information
on the British before moving in for that battle. And
the person who volunteers for that is of course Nathan Hale,
and he is disguised, you know, at the time, we're
(09:28):
not talking about James Bond style things, but his disguise
when he goes behind lines is as a schoolmaster. And
he successfully gathered the information, which was critical intelligence before
the battle. And yeah, it was essentially, you know, some
(09:54):
of the intelligence was to establish what was going on
in New York, specifically Manhattan, which at that point and
for a lot of the American Revolutionary War was in
British hands. So you've got New York or you know
which again in history sometimes refer to with Yorktown or
(10:16):
Fort York or you know, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah,
he goes behind enemy lines. Unfortunately, well, whilst being undercover
and all the rest of it, he is ultimately caught.
(10:41):
Natan Hale then is is killed as a spy. Now,
just at this point it's worthwhile as noting that when
when we're looking at espionage and spies, essentially if if
you were caught, you are summarily executed. Now there might
(11:05):
be a mock trial, but essentially, if there is a
suspicion in wartime that you have a spy, you were executed.
Now in what would become the Napoleonic Cause. A few
years after, this was very common. Actually, you know, the
spies from both sides when court killed and all of that,
(11:27):
and that is what happens to Nathan Hale.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So was that kind of the trigger or one of
the triggers for George Washington to order this group to
be formed.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, Well, Nathan Hale's best friend was someone called Benjamin Talmadge.
And Benjamin Talmadge is someone who hails from Stocket and
stuck it in New Yaw And essentially, so Socket becomes
(12:05):
the epicenter for espionage in many ways. So Benjamin Talmadge
gathers essentially some of his most close childhood friends, people
he grew up with, et cetera. In so Soccket recruits
them to provide intelligence. And again, you know, we are
(12:28):
talking about people who are you know, doing one of
the mill day to day jobs, you know, the fisherman,
you know that kind of stuff. Tavern owners, you know,
the son of a Presbyterian minister, all of this. So
it's really useful to have people behind enemy lines who
can sneak information out. But really the person for what
(12:51):
would become the Kolpa spy ring is is Benjamin Talmadge,
as I say, he was best friend.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It was named Copper because it was near the town
of Culpeper, Is that right?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Well, actually, when when Tommy proposes to George Washington that
we need to have an intelligent system, the British certainly
have one, and I think we'll come into that a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
That was one.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I can't remember what I one was. I think that
was the zero. There were lots of am I is
up to twenty I think, But yes, in essence, yes,
James Bond minus double seven. Well, yeah, so he's just
(13:47):
you know that we need an intelligent branch and Washington
is the person who names it. And Washington names it, well,
he is the Colpa spy Ring. But in essence he
names it after col Peper, and that's cool Peper in
(14:10):
its county in Virginia. So in essence, cool Peper becomes Coolper,
and it becomes a bit more difficult to say, doesn't
it because when he's saying Colper and some people have
or Kuiper Belt, yes.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And all of that. But so, okay, so he's the
one that chose that name in he chose it for
a county in Virginia. Were they in Virginia or were
they up in New York at that time.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Where it was that they established. Everything is up for
a little bit of debate. I suspect I suspect that
Washington chose Virginia because he's from I think he was
born in Pope's Creek or something like that, which is
in Virginia. So it's probably a county he was familiar with,
(15:12):
just because he hailed from Virginia, would be my suggestion.
I see, so we've got we've got.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
The go ahead. No no, no, no, no, we got yet.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I was just going to say that, you know, we've
we've got here the the origins of a spy ring.
Now we've got a name, We've got all of this.
But following the death of Nathan Hale, secrecy needs to
be ramped up. And this is where, well, there's a
few things when we can go into some of the
(15:49):
tricks that they were using and some of the techniques
for passing secrets in a little a little while. But
what I find intriguing is they establish a number system
for the agents, so you wouldn't be Renee Barnett, you
would be agents eight, one, two, let's just say. And
(16:11):
that to history has been very interesting because we didn't
really understand that much about this spy ring until as
late as the nineteen thirties and then became the task
of You know, there's lots of written reports about Agent
seven to one one, seven to eleven, which I understand
(16:34):
is a petrol station convenience dur in the United States. Well,
any guesses on agents seven?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah? Who was it?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
George Washington?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Oh was it?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Oh? Yeah? So we've got for example, I'll just read
some out for you. So Long Island is known as
seven to eight. You've got someone called Robert Townsend whose
alias is Samuel Coulper excuse me, is Agent seven to three.
(17:16):
Abraham Woodhall is Samuel Coulper Senior? Is Agent seven too?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Did they have like codes that they wrote in codes?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
It was anmalos.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Well, this is just where we've started. So the first
the first thing is, you know, lessons learned from the
death of Nathan Hale, you're gonna address yourself as a
skill master. I think it was a specific a Dutch
school master, because Dutch school master's dressed definitely, I guess
(18:00):
don't know. In fact, because he was known to someone
called Robert Rodgers, who was in charge of the Queen's Infantry. No,
he was in charge of the rangers, the Queen's Rangers.
He was a Scotsman because he had been identified by
(18:22):
you know, his outfit and also you know his visage
and all of this. He was he was caught. So
they've learned the lessons and what they what they've done
is by numbering places you've removed the name. Also Washington
himself as spymaster. You know, he is the ultimate authority
(18:45):
for this new spy ring. Didn't know the identities of
the people who were working for him. I just want
to say, you know, just at this point, maybe skipping
ahead slightly, or one of the key reasons for the
(19:05):
success of this spy ring is is actually due to
the use of women. Now, women at the time were
not seen as any real threat because what would they know.
But actually, you've got a I'll just give you some
give you an idea of this. There is someone called
(19:26):
Agent three five five. And you know, whilst again women
aren't considered to be any threat to any military commanders,
it means that they can spy uninterrupted, So cooks and
may too. We're perhaps providing food and what have you
to British generals, et cetera. You know, we're well for
(19:50):
two ears, one mouth, having a good listen and then
whispering gone to various other intelligent assets. Think three five
five is known or probably best known as the intelligence gatherer,
who it is suspected is someone called Anna Strong, but
(20:13):
unfortunately we base that upon a cryptic reference from Abraham Woodholl,
who have just mentioned she is a key for providing
intelligence that led ultimately to the actions of Benedict Arnold
(20:39):
and providing information that there is a senior general who
is going to betray the revolutionary cause. So there are
other women that are known as well. You've got seal
A Strong for example. The Strong is the husband of
(21:01):
Anna Anna or Nancy Smith Strong, who again was active
in the spiring. So just you know, if we're thinking
about James Bond, we sort of have to think about
Jane Bond as well, because it really you know, without
(21:21):
the women behind the lines, et cetera. This entire spiring
wouldn't have functioned.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Oh wow, now you said that George Washington didn't know
the names of the people who were in the spir ring.
Was that so that? And was that the case around?
I mean, did they all know who each other was?
(21:48):
And was that because if they were captured they wouldn't
be able to give up any of their comrades or
what were the purpose of that? Well?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yes, in essence, it's a bit like the resistant cells
if you think about it in France during World War Two,
the Maquis and various other resistant cells, that you don't
provide information about the names of people in other cells,
et cetera, because exactly that if you get caught and
(22:25):
you reveal, now it is more likely that the numbers
were known, but the identities weren't. So you know, we
do know this. For example, if you're referring to seven
to eleven. Let's say, I'm not this isn't a real example.
I'm just saying, if you are referring to seven eleven
(22:48):
and you're under torture or you've been captured, you don't
know who that is, so you can't reveal, right, and
then that means then if you've got counterintelligence and the
British side, they're then having to try and piece together
numbers and see what's what. Just bearing in mind what
I've already alluded to here, you know, New York City
(23:10):
is referred to as seven to seven, So if someone's captured,
not all of these numbers are agents. So you'd be
trying to find who seventy.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Seven is, who's the place, what's the you know, yeah,
I would be trying to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
And so you know, the the origins and the beginnings
of this aspiring are in secrecy as you would expect.
We're not talking about volunteers for someone to go behind
the line anymore. What we have is an established network,
and specifically you know the network. I haven't read anything
(23:55):
that suggests it was operating let's say, you know the
Carolinas for example. This seems to be very specific around
where the British are stationed in New York and around
broader New England as opposed to some of the places
in the South as we would refer to it. But yeah,
(24:18):
Washington didn't know the identity of everyone, although there were
well there were some people that he was aware of.
So well, I can get into, if you want me to,
some of the ways in which they were keeping secrets
above the numbers, if you.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Want, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
We've essentially got we're let's keep with a James Bond,
how we've got Q We've got someone who were a
few people who have developed specifically methods to keep things secret.
And there's a bit of an industry for secrecy now.
(25:08):
So what was common at the time, that's just ignore
the inspiring. If you wanted to pass intelligence, if you
wanted to pass secrets, you would do so in writing.
And quite often what people would would do is use
lemon juice on paper, which yeah, so you know, you
(25:33):
put a heat sauce near the paper, you know, have
a good look through and you can see all the notes. Well,
the problem with that it was a little bit too
easy to check, so they developed chemicals that made it
a little bit more difficult. You know. The use of
things like iodine and boiled eggs was also something that's
(25:54):
been proposed. So you can write on the shell of
a boiled egg, then leave it, peel the egg and
you'll find the message actually within the on the on
the egg itself inside the egg. Now, but imagine that
(26:15):
if you're carrying you know, some eggs and some bread
and all the rest of it, it's not going to
look and it's not gonna look unusual. Is that it's
just going to look like the day to day. So
by the standards of today, it's probably a bit primitive.
But at the time this, this is absolutely revolutionary. And
(26:40):
the ink they refer to this invisible ink. For like
I say, the eggs paper was called sympathetic stain, that's
what they call them. So, you know, the this on
top of the invisible ink. What they would do is
write between the lines of what appeared to be just
(27:04):
normal writing, so in the gap between the sentence above
and the one below. So it's very crude, but the
use of invisible links would mean that you could you
could visually then begin to decode key intelligence that the
British might struggle, you know, to decode. Again, you've got
(27:28):
the use of the numbers. And there is another aspect here,
which is some of the codes for you know, you know,
so Abraham wood Hole uses ten, the number ten for
New York for his own purposes. These agents are having
(27:50):
to commit all of these numbers to memory, which if
you can imagine, you know, the agents are these agents
know that if they are caught or even suspected, they
face execution. And I don't know about you, but when
(28:11):
you know, if your life's in threat or there's some
anxiety or something like this, I'm not remembering everything.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
So it's you know, it's it really is quite He
used forty for post riders as well, you know, people
who were flivering correspondence, et cetera. Talmadge also develops the
use of particular codes as well that would need to
(28:43):
be decoded by more senior people in the in the
spir ring. And this involved the creation then of a dictionary.
And there were only a few copies of these dictionaries,
the little pocket dictionaries with you know, the lists of verbs, nouns, people,
(29:04):
places that then corresponded to code numbers. And these dictionaries
were given to I've mentioned Abraham Woodhall officer Socket, good
friend of Benjamin Talmadge. He had one, You had George
Washington Townsend who had them and these small If.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Those dictionaries had fallen into enemy hands, would they have
been able to decipher them? And were those like the
key to.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Everything in a way, Yes, yes, there were you know,
there was another layer on top of that. So here's
the dictionary, and you know, if you're then referring to people,
remember you've got this other code system. But if you're
writing in you know, if you want to say hello,
(30:01):
my name is James Martin, you'd have to commit some
of that numbers. So there is a little bit of protection.
But yeah, ultimately, if that dictionary fell into enemy hands,
the new dictionaries would have to be produced. So apparently
none of them did, not that I'm not that I'm
(30:23):
aware of. No, and in fact, given the success of
the ring, yeah, I think that they kept that very secret.
I did read an account. I mean, this was a
few years ago that these books, these dictionaries as I'm
(30:43):
calling them, where essentially if you lose this, you lose
your life. So they must have been concealed in very
hard to find places and used on me in you know,
an absolute secrecy.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Now in this group, I know it seems like the
their purpose and their manday by and large, was to
report on the movement of British troops. Was there anything
else that they might have been up to that was
(31:31):
giving them more information? Or was it just strictly they
were just wanting to you know, keep whatever forces the
revolutionaries had a prize of where the British were.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
It's not just military. The British have a relatively advanced
intelligence system and so for example, the British were trying
to flood the currency being used by the revolutionaries, trying
(32:10):
to flood as many counterfeit notes into the economy to
collapse the economy of the of the revolutionaries. Oh wow,
so you know, and there was a reason why after
the after the war, certainly the Northern States continued to
use the British pound, you know, as a result of
(32:33):
an unstable economy. Now the again inspiring had intelligence of that.
So then being able to identify these counterfeits became really
important because if you can't afford to pay your soldiers,
either with note or whatever whatever it's counterfeit, then you
(32:56):
don't have an army. And we know from Washington struggles
any way, many periods the continantal Army were demodelized due
to lack of paying provisions, et cetera. So this was
a very cunning, i have to say, from from the British.
But again was was intercepted by the coll perspiring, So
(33:20):
they're not just doing intelligence to you know, establish where
enemy soldiers are or troop movements, fleet movements or anything
like that. There were also counter terrorism, that's it. So yeah,
(33:41):
like it's like I say, there's there's lots of things. Now. Initially, yes,
you've got signals that are being used to know, initially,
signals that are being used for people who are going
across the sound as they used to say, going across
(34:03):
sound into British territory. You know, they developed various noises,
owl noises, which a trick that they'd taken from the
Native Americans to enable people to get behind the enemy
lines and crucially escape m and so all of all
(34:27):
of that. Certainly initially, you know, that's really what they're
up to. Well, as things move on and things developed,
there were much more complicated intelligence operations, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Not to jump the gun too much, but I'm just
curious as to at the end of the day after
the revolution, was this sort of considered the prototype of
or did it sort of continue on but evolve into
(35:01):
different a different agency or something.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Is that I think evolve is the right word, because
you know, I would just say that not a single
member of the spy ring was ever captured. After the
Revolutionary War, all of the agents returned back to their
day to day jobs, apart from Benjamin Talmadge, who you know,
(35:31):
helped found all of this and all of that. He
ends up becoming a member of the House of Representatives
for Connecticut and all this. So it you know, it's
I can't believe for a minute that he, you know,
(35:53):
didn't have some influence in, you know, continuing a tradition
of intelligence in the United States. So you could look
at it as the sort of fire you know, the
father of any intelligence in the US. But but but,
(36:16):
as I say, we didn't really know about any of
this until the nineteen thirties. So this has been a
very well kept secret, even until just under one hundred
years ago.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
They really kept it under wraps. That's amazing. That happen
for a lot, do you know. So we said that again,
how did it come to light in the nineteen thirties?
What what happened? Did somebody come across some papers.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Or I as far as I remember reading, Yeah, in essence,
there wasn't. I think, in fact there was. I think
his name was Osborne or it was something like that.
(37:13):
It's his surname. And there was the New York Historical Society.
Like I say, you know, don't quote me on this one,
but there was a paper that was being prepared on
Nathan Hale, and it's from there that I understand it
(37:37):
was quite late on it. It was probably I think it
was this time of year September October in nineteen thirty
that some documents were discovered. The exact ins and out,
I'm not too sure, but he was to do with
Nathan Hale. I do remember that part. And of course
(37:58):
then becomes the very exciting thing give you're discovering secret
and actually the secrets that you're discovering are in fact
secretive because there's then this code of who are these numbers?
What are these numbers and all of that. So I
suppose our understanding has further developed, for sure, and you know,
(38:22):
various people have started to write about them from I
think the fifties sixties into not academic text but into
two books and novels and all of this. But I
do feel that this is still quite a big secret.
I don't think a lot of people great. Yeah, and
(38:47):
there was a TV series. I believe about this, But
apart from that, yeah, it would make a very good thing.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
And see the opening scene, it's you know, the execution
of Night and Hill, and then you know, back at
the ranch wherever they are, they start making plans to
make sure that this never happens again and to develop
a system for gathering intelligence, and then they go for
(39:17):
It would be so cool, especially with the you know,
different agents and the women involved, because like you said,
you know, nobody thought women knew anything back then, so
we hear very little about women's involvement and anything very
important other than.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Some of the ciphers as well as some of the
codes that we used in the cipher. I mean, if
anyone wants to have a look at this, if you
look at the letter H in the Americas, our H, yes,
I just use with hate because herbs has an H,
(40:03):
and it just saying if you want to look at
H or H or whatever, it looks like a little ufo.
So H does for some reason. So what you've got
is eight and little symbols corresponding with each latter. So
(40:28):
if you were to have a look at H, looks
like a little UFO thing upper and the upper case
and lower case have got different symbols, So c looks
a bit like and yang if you will.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
That's easy to find online. Yeah, yeah, what would a
person want to google?
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Oh, perscribing cipher score push something like that. The image
I have is far too low quality for us to
have put it up on the for us to see
on the in the show. But yeah, I have looking.
(41:15):
I mean, you know, and please do have a look
at a look at all of this because it's you know,
he's very interesting. I've got to say. So you've got
I mean, can I just tell you one of my
(41:36):
favorite stories about one of the women?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Right, So you've got Anna Strong, as I've already mentioned,
and her job is to relay messages and meet with
someone called Caleb Brewster. And Caleb Brewster really is the
person who's going behind any the lines. Ultimately, if he's caught,
(42:05):
it sort of game over, if you will, And just
one of absolute favorite things, the little things matter. So
Anna Strong would rely messages, as I say, she'd meet
with Brewster when he's come over the line. But what
she would do is she would hang a black petticoat
(42:25):
on a washing line or laundry line whatever, to alert
Brewster whenever a meeting was urgently needed or if there
was a new job for him, if you will. And
it just reminded me of I don't know if you
remember the X Files, where I think he was Mulder
who'd put an X in his window and then the
(42:47):
next scene, someone's arrived because they've got the message or
the bat signal and what have you. There it was,
you know, someone doing their laundry. Nobody would suspect that.
I wouldn't. You wouldn't. Oh look there they're hanging that
black petticoat. Again you just look, the road is white.
(43:08):
But maybe not, well, maybe that was the because it
was different.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
That was the y. That's funny. They were very clever though,
to use things that are just normal and not noticeable
to anyone except for those who are meant to have
the message, you know, because that would be that would
not to anybody except that one guy.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Exactly. And this is against, as I say, you know,
relatively well established British military intelligence operation. And again there
is someone that I would like to just mention. I
just probably do. I would also be if I didn't
(44:00):
mention the importance of slaves in the cor perspir ring.
So there's someone there's an agent known as Kato. He
was providing again information and intelligence because of his virtue
as a slave. He was using dead drops, for example,
(44:23):
to provide messages. So it's important that we understand that
the spir ring is comprised of every part of society
at that time. And I just thought I'd mention.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Kto what's a dead drop?
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Well, in essence, where you know, you've literally dropping something
for it to be picked up at a later date.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Oh, I see, So you just leave something and then
they go to that location later pick it up like
papers or whatever. It might be money or anything.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Yeah, you know what would be.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
In it for some enslaved person to take that kind
of risk.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
I don't think there was much choice.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
I was going to say, I guess, I guess they
did it.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
The British offered a notional freedom to those who came
to join the British side. I would note that Britain
it wouldn't be until my eighteen thirty before slavery was
abolished in Britain. But that was the that was the promise.
(45:48):
Maybe there was an assumption that Washington would do the same.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Right, that was the initial thought was that well, maybe
you know, maybe they knew it wouldn't be much different anyway,
you know, if they defected to the British side, because
there were there still was slavery.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
And the difficulty is we have so few voices of
slaves from from the time, it's difficult to know what
they were thinking. For example, I do know the at
this period there was a diagnosis of a mental ill
health condition I forget its name, but for you know,
(46:37):
slaves who want the slaves who wanted to escape. You
know clearly they had some mental ill health.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
And you think, oh, you mean mental mental health situation
with the enslaved people.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Oh yeah, it was considered unnatural for them wanting to
to escape. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
M Oh, my god.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
I just want to bring in another character from the
British side there if I can do. And this is
someone called Major John Andre whose family were I think
Swiss and French. They were Huguenots. There were French Protestants
who had to flee France because tolerance of religion had
(47:32):
been abolished in France and all Protestants were instructed to
leave the country. So he's a major in the British Army,
which when you think about it, you know, he's well,
he's done well for himself, being you know, of non
(47:53):
British origin, and with Hugeno ancestry myself, you know, I
felt a bit of an affinity to him. He's responsible
for the British intelligence operation and is ultimately the person
who was negotiating with Benedict Arnold to turn over control
(48:16):
of West Point to the British. He was ultimately well,
he was ultimately course again thanks to the cool perspiring
and again executed. But the story about him, I mean,
(48:40):
we've got to just bear in mind with any sort
of I don't know, espionage conflicts, what have you. You know,
these people doing their jobs. They're doing what they believe,
and you know, ultimately it's a job, isn't it. You know,
they're getting paid. But it was just the way in
which John Andre was executed. Now he spoke to George Washington.
(49:08):
Andre appeals to Washington to be executed by firing squad.
And this is important because if you're executed by firing squad,
it's as a soldier rather than to be hung, which
is and certainly was the customary method of execution for spies.
(49:35):
What is intriguing though, I mean one Washington refuses that request,
and you know he was hung, but the witnesses to
his execution say that he placed the noose around his
own neck, tightened it. And then you know what's more
(49:58):
is Lafayette, the French gamal and author was brought to
tears and wept as did everyone else, because he held
himself with such dignity and honor. What's curious, though, is
he was married to someone called Peggy Shippin, who immediately,
(50:22):
upon Andre's death, goes to marry Benedict Arnold, now the British,
and in many ways it's due to Benedict Arnold that
John Andre is executed. So Andre himself is behind enemy lines,
(50:44):
which for our purposes is in the American side, and
Arnold so Andrea completes his mission and then returns back
to the coast to be picked up by a boat
(51:05):
order to find that there is no boat. Arnold corresponds
to him and says, ah, well, the easiest thing to
do is to travel overland back to British lines, which
was an insane thing today because that's where he got caught.
Now again, what you've got there is counterintelligence by the
(51:28):
cool perspir ring who are by this point aware that
there is correspondence between a senior general and the head
of intelligence for the British side.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
And at this time was Arnold publicly known as a
spy or was he? It was just they had begun
to suspect people like Washington and his group knew about him.
(52:01):
Was it public yet that he had betrayed the.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
It would be. I mean, the two things are going
on at the same time. So Andre's capture is also
concurrent with Benedict Arnold switching sides. Okay, at this point
(52:27):
it's yeah, at this point, no one is suspecting Arnold
of anything. I mean, there is a little bit of
a suspicion because he keeps asking for money, and he
keeps asking for debts to be canceled by the by Congress,
(52:48):
and he's demanding this, this and this because he because
he'd been shot in the leg and had a limp. Essentially,
he was removed mostly from active military duty and was
growing frustrated, clearly very frustrated with the fact that he
couldn't go out and show himself off.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Me.
Speaker 3 (53:12):
Arnold really is quite a big chauvinist, to be fair.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Why do you think he did choose what he chose
in the end. Do you think that that he was
being courted by the British and hops, excuse me, and
offered some things if he would come back to their side,
or did he have any kind of you know, altruistic
(53:42):
reasons or patriotic reasons or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (53:47):
Do you know, well, you know, even in Britain, Arnold,
if people do know him, know him as a traitor.
So you know, I think we're all on the same
page with this, trying to understand the reasons. I mean,
he is introduced to John andre By, ultimately a relative
of Benjamin Franklin. So there's there's a sort of meeting
(54:12):
with William Franklin and one of his friends, Jonathan O'Dell,
and it's from that Arnold and andre I was essentially corresponding.
I think Arnold was turned I think he was. I
(54:37):
mentioned the debts, so he if he was to turn
over the fort, Arnold was what was asking for ten
pounds which in today's.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Money in those days.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
Well it's the equivalent of one point seven million pounds.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Oh my gosh, So yeah, you've.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
Got all of this. Arnold is also facing court Marshall
for profiteering and all of this, and I think all
of that, if you know, if intelligence officers know that,
you know, you've requested, you know, millions and all of this,
(55:24):
then you've got a buying price, which ultimately is the
reason why he was paid by the British. He didn't receive.
I think it was offered twenty thousand pounds by the British,
which is about three and a half million pounds today.
(55:45):
But yeah, he got something. I don't think he quite
got all of it, but you know, he certainly did
get something. But again, you know, the plot is exposed
just a little bit too late for him to be caught.
And yeah, Arnold never reached West Point to hand it over,
(56:13):
namely due to the works of Benjamin Tolman.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Great, it looks like we've used up our time. It
was really great. We started out with the father of
our country and you know, called one of the most
respected people in our history, and we ended up with
poor old Benedict Arnold, whose name has been drug through
(56:39):
the mud for low all these years. But you know,
it was like just as everybody knows the name George Washington,
I think everyone knows the name Benedict Benedict Arnold, which
is kind of interesting, but it's it's it's I wondered
what his incentive was, and of course it's that age
old you know, enticement of money. It always go on
(57:03):
to the bottom line, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (57:06):
I will just say this before we go, that of
the continental budget, around ten percent of it was going
to intelligence at the peak. Oh god. And I'll just
leave you with a thought, I wonder what that is today?
Speaker 2 (57:24):
What is it today? Yeah, that would be interesting to know. Well,
thanks Erin for joining us, and thank you James again.
I hope we get to do this again really soon,
and join us next week for Brandon night Vision. Don't
forget to follow us on TikTok and Instagram and help
(57:44):
us out help us grow those channels as well. Also,
don't forget to go on kgidb dot com and sign
up for our free newsletter. You can also join and
become a member there if you want, but if just
like to have the newsletter is perfectly free and you
don't have to become a member to get it. It's
(58:05):
published every month around mid month, so we've got a
lot of great stories in there this issue, and then
we also put the issue online so you don't have
to miss anything. Thanks everyone, have a great weekend and
take care of each other. Bye.
Night Vision Vision. Following clues left by our ancestors, we
unbury the past to reveal a knowledge of unfathomable value,
putting us just a little closer to our own true birthrights.
From the secret history of a possible bloodline of Jesus Christ,
to a secret history of America's founders, to the secret
(00:24):
history of extraterrestrial interaction on our planet. Here to bring
light to the night. Your host for night Vision Radio
Renee Barnett.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oops, I'm muted. Hi, everybody, Welcome to night Vision again.
I hope this is not your first time, but if
it is, we sure welcome you and hope this is
not your best. Got a great show planned for tonight.
We've got our wonderful historian James Martin back talking about
some of the mysteries of history. Tonight, we're going to
(01:09):
be looking into the founding fathers and actually the father
of our country, George Washington. We might to be or
James might be imparting some information that you have not heard.
He certainly tells me things that I don't know every
single day, and this was one of them that I
(01:30):
was not really fully aware of once he started talking
about it, and then I started looking into it on
my own. I did see that, you know, I had
a vague recollection of something certainly not something that we
taught in history classes at school. Before we get started
with the show, I wanted to let you all know
(01:50):
that we're very excited that we've just established a brand
new KGRA TikTok channel and I hope you'll make your
way on over there and fall. We've got some excitios
that we're loading up every single day, multiple videos each day,
and we are going to be streaming some show some
shows live from there. I think very soon in the
(02:14):
near future, I'm going to be doing an interview with
Bishop James long Uh and we're going to live stream it,
so it'll be both on Bishop Longs TikTok and the
kg R A TikTok channel, and you know me our
other formats will be live as well also if you
(02:34):
get a chance to check us out on Instagram, because
everything is going up there as well, and we've had
lots and lots of views and a great response, and
I'm really happy about it, really proud of it, and
our colleague Maximo over own in Argentina is the one
that's really putting in all the work, and I'm just
(02:57):
sort of dabbling every now and then and helping him out.
But he's really the force behind the new TikTok channel.
I'll go over there and give us a follow so
show Maximo your appreciation for what he's doing, because he's
doing a heck of a job. But before we go
any further, I think we got to get started on
(03:18):
tonight's show because our time is always so limited and
there's always so much to talk about, and it's been
a long time since James has been here. Hi, James, Hi,
if you.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Want morning, afternoon, evening wherever you are? Good to be back. Yeah,
certainly an interesting show coming up.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yes, Yeah, it's so good to be back, you know,
recording new shows. I've been off for a couple of weeks.
I mean, LOFE has just seemed to have happened and
one thing after another. But hopefully things are mellowing out
a little bit for both of us and we'll be
able to spend a little more time with our viewers
(04:04):
from here on out. I got some other great shows
coming as well, going to have Court Lindel on again.
He says he's found some big secret about renal a chateau,
so I'm going to let him break it on night Vision.
And then also coming up, we've got Danielle Agnew the
Psychic Medium, and everyone loves it when Danielle comes on
(04:26):
because she just sort of bursts on the screen like
a big ball of sunshine and it's really interesting. And
she's going to tell us about some recent interviews that
she has done with an extraterrestrial and interviews with angels,
(04:46):
so we'll see what that's all about. I'm certainly all
ears in all eyes if she's got any photographic evidence
as well, But anyway, that's Danielle. We love her. So anyhow, Jeane,
we are going to be talking today about the father
of the United States of America, George Washington, and you know,
(05:11):
I learned a little bit about him. It seems like
each year most of it from people in England, not
in this country. But what are you going to tell
us tonight that we don't know? Is this about us
spy ring?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yes, but the cool paspiring. So my interest with this
actually it started off with research for a book specifically
in fact, to do with the Newport Towers. If you've
if you haven't already, you know there's a book out
(05:51):
there which was caught between me and Simulus Murphy called Uncharted,
And towards the end of that book, we look at
the Newport Tower and some historians had suggested, you know,
the Newport Tower was built by someone called Benedict Arnold,
(06:12):
not that Benedict Arnold, now the great grandfather of the
infamous Benedict Arnold, and that that led me down a
bit of a rabbit hole actually looking at you know,
what what did this Benedett Ou, the infamous Benedict Andald,
you know, how did he end up well betraying the
(06:34):
infant United States not even a country at this point?
What led him to defect essentially to the British side?
And this is where we came across the cool perspiring.
So I suppose that, you know, if we want to
start off really, you know, before George Washington became honest George,
(06:57):
he was actually involved in a bit of honesty. And
that is to say, George Washington was the well America's
first spy master. He we, like I sayd we we
know him as honest George, but actually he was involved
in well a lot of subterfuse and espionage and all
(07:20):
of this, so right, that depends on.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
He did it on behalf of the of the new country. Yes,
but he was sneaking around on the enemy.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Right Yeah, well not him necessarily, but he was directing
quite a lot of espionage. So I mean, the first person,
if we have a look at what happened before the
Corpa spy ring, there is someone who I think I
think he's known to a few people. This is someone
(07:59):
called Nathan in Hale. Oh yeah, you know, and again
you know my knowledge and Nathan Hale started off with
I'm sure there was a US Navy ship, the US
S Nathan Hale, I think you know, sorl of action
or did whatever. But anyway, this Nathan Hale, for those
(08:21):
who don't know, was essentially a message was put up
by George Washington during the Well I'm saying that from
a British perspective, that little squabble that we had called
Theationary War. But a message that going to a material operation. Yeah,
(08:44):
words like that, but a message that is going to
essentially to for a volunteer. Really on September eighth, seventeen
seventy six, and the calls for a volunteer was essentially
to go behind British lines before what we would then
(09:08):
know was the Battle of Harlem Heights to gather information
on the British before moving in for that battle. And
the person who volunteers for that is of course Nathan Hale,
and he is disguised, you know, at the time, we're
(09:28):
not talking about James Bond style things, but his disguise
when he goes behind lines is as a schoolmaster. And
he successfully gathered the information, which was critical intelligence before
the battle. And yeah, it was essentially, you know, some
(09:54):
of the intelligence was to establish what was going on
in New York, specifically Manhattan, which at that point and
for a lot of the American Revolutionary War was in
British hands. So you've got New York or you know
which again in history sometimes refer to with Yorktown or
(10:16):
Fort York or you know, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah,
he goes behind enemy lines. Unfortunately, well, whilst being undercover
and all the rest of it, he is ultimately caught.
(10:41):
Natan Hale then is is killed as a spy. Now,
just at this point it's worthwhile as noting that when
when we're looking at espionage and spies, essentially if if
you were caught, you are summarily executed. Now there might
(11:05):
be a mock trial, but essentially, if there is a
suspicion in wartime that you have a spy, you were executed.
Now in what would become the Napoleonic Cause. A few
years after, this was very common. Actually, you know, the
spies from both sides when court killed and all of that,
(11:27):
and that is what happens to Nathan Hale.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So was that kind of the trigger or one of
the triggers for George Washington to order this group to
be formed.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, Well, Nathan Hale's best friend was someone called Benjamin Talmadge.
And Benjamin Talmadge is someone who hails from Stocket and
stuck it in New Yaw And essentially, so Socket becomes
(12:05):
the epicenter for espionage in many ways. So Benjamin Talmadge
gathers essentially some of his most close childhood friends, people
he grew up with, et cetera. In so Soccket recruits
them to provide intelligence. And again, you know, we are
(12:28):
talking about people who are you know, doing one of
the mill day to day jobs, you know, the fisherman,
you know that kind of stuff. Tavern owners, you know,
the son of a Presbyterian minister, all of this. So
it's really useful to have people behind enemy lines who
can sneak information out. But really the person for what
(12:51):
would become the Kolpa spy ring is is Benjamin Talmadge,
as I say, he was best friend.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It was named Copper because it was near the town
of Culpeper, Is that right?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Well, actually, when when Tommy proposes to George Washington that
we need to have an intelligent system, the British certainly
have one, and I think we'll come into that a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
That was one.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I can't remember what I one was. I think that
was the zero. There were lots of am I is
up to twenty I think, But yes, in essence, yes,
James Bond minus double seven. Well, yeah, so he's just
(13:47):
you know that we need an intelligent branch and Washington
is the person who names it. And Washington names it, well,
he is the Colpa spy Ring. But in essence he
names it after col Peper, and that's cool Peper in
(14:10):
its county in Virginia. So in essence, cool Peper becomes Coolper,
and it becomes a bit more difficult to say, doesn't
it because when he's saying Colper and some people have
or Kuiper Belt, yes.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And all of that. But so, okay, so he's the
one that chose that name in he chose it for
a county in Virginia. Were they in Virginia or were
they up in New York at that time.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Where it was that they established. Everything is up for
a little bit of debate. I suspect I suspect that
Washington chose Virginia because he's from I think he was
born in Pope's Creek or something like that, which is
in Virginia. So it's probably a county he was familiar with,
(15:12):
just because he hailed from Virginia, would be my suggestion.
I see, so we've got we've got.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
The go ahead. No no, no, no, no, we got yet.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I was just going to say that, you know, we've
we've got here the the origins of a spy ring.
Now we've got a name, We've got all of this.
But following the death of Nathan Hale, secrecy needs to
be ramped up. And this is where, well, there's a
few things when we can go into some of the
(15:49):
tricks that they were using and some of the techniques
for passing secrets in a little a little while. But
what I find intriguing is they establish a number system
for the agents, so you wouldn't be Renee Barnett, you
would be agents eight, one, two, let's just say. And
(16:11):
that to history has been very interesting because we didn't
really understand that much about this spy ring until as
late as the nineteen thirties and then became the task
of You know, there's lots of written reports about Agent
seven to one one, seven to eleven, which I understand
(16:34):
is a petrol station convenience dur in the United States. Well,
any guesses on agents seven?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah? Who was it?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
George Washington?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Oh was it?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Oh? Yeah? So we've got for example, I'll just read
some out for you. So Long Island is known as
seven to eight. You've got someone called Robert Townsend whose
alias is Samuel Coulper excuse me, is Agent seven to three.
(17:16):
Abraham Woodhall is Samuel Coulper Senior? Is Agent seven too?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Did they have like codes that they wrote in codes?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
It was anmalos.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Well, this is just where we've started. So the first
the first thing is, you know, lessons learned from the
death of Nathan Hale, you're gonna address yourself as a
skill master. I think it was a specific a Dutch
school master, because Dutch school master's dressed definitely, I guess
(18:00):
don't know. In fact, because he was known to someone
called Robert Rodgers, who was in charge of the Queen's Infantry. No,
he was in charge of the rangers, the Queen's Rangers.
He was a Scotsman because he had been identified by
(18:22):
you know, his outfit and also you know his visage
and all of this. He was he was caught. So
they've learned the lessons and what they what they've done
is by numbering places you've removed the name. Also Washington
himself as spymaster. You know, he is the ultimate authority
(18:45):
for this new spy ring. Didn't know the identities of
the people who were working for him. I just want
to say, you know, just at this point, maybe skipping
ahead slightly, or one of the key reasons for the
(19:05):
success of this spy ring is is actually due to
the use of women. Now, women at the time were
not seen as any real threat because what would they know.
But actually, you've got a I'll just give you some
give you an idea of this. There is someone called
(19:26):
Agent three five five. And you know, whilst again women
aren't considered to be any threat to any military commanders,
it means that they can spy uninterrupted, So cooks and
may too. We're perhaps providing food and what have you
to British generals, et cetera. You know, we're well for
(19:50):
two ears, one mouth, having a good listen and then
whispering gone to various other intelligent assets. Think three five
five is known or probably best known as the intelligence gatherer,
who it is suspected is someone called Anna Strong, but
(20:13):
unfortunately we base that upon a cryptic reference from Abraham Woodholl,
who have just mentioned she is a key for providing
intelligence that led ultimately to the actions of Benedict Arnold
(20:39):
and providing information that there is a senior general who
is going to betray the revolutionary cause. So there are
other women that are known as well. You've got seal
A Strong for example. The Strong is the husband of
(21:01):
Anna Anna or Nancy Smith Strong, who again was active
in the spiring. So just you know, if we're thinking
about James Bond, we sort of have to think about
Jane Bond as well, because it really you know, without
(21:21):
the women behind the lines, et cetera. This entire spiring
wouldn't have functioned.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Oh wow, now you said that George Washington didn't know
the names of the people who were in the spir ring.
Was that so that? And was that the case around?
I mean, did they all know who each other was?
(21:48):
And was that because if they were captured they wouldn't
be able to give up any of their comrades or
what were the purpose of that? Well?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yes, in essence, it's a bit like the resistant cells
if you think about it in France during World War Two,
the Maquis and various other resistant cells, that you don't
provide information about the names of people in other cells,
et cetera, because exactly that if you get caught and
(22:25):
you reveal, now it is more likely that the numbers
were known, but the identities weren't. So you know, we
do know this. For example, if you're referring to seven
to eleven. Let's say, I'm not this isn't a real example.
I'm just saying, if you are referring to seven eleven
(22:48):
and you're under torture or you've been captured, you don't
know who that is, so you can't reveal, right, and
then that means then if you've got counterintelligence and the
British side, they're then having to try and piece together
numbers and see what's what. Just bearing in mind what
I've already alluded to here, you know, New York City
(23:10):
is referred to as seven to seven, So if someone's captured,
not all of these numbers are agents. So you'd be
trying to find who seventy.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Seven is, who's the place, what's the you know, yeah,
I would be trying to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
And so you know, the the origins and the beginnings
of this aspiring are in secrecy as you would expect.
We're not talking about volunteers for someone to go behind
the line anymore. What we have is an established network,
and specifically you know the network. I haven't read anything
(23:55):
that suggests it was operating let's say, you know the
Carolinas for example. This seems to be very specific around
where the British are stationed in New York and around
broader New England as opposed to some of the places
in the South as we would refer to it. But yeah,
(24:18):
Washington didn't know the identity of everyone, although there were
well there were some people that he was aware of.
So well, I can get into, if you want me to,
some of the ways in which they were keeping secrets
above the numbers, if you.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Want, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
We've essentially got we're let's keep with a James Bond,
how we've got Q We've got someone who were a
few people who have developed specifically methods to keep things secret.
And there's a bit of an industry for secrecy now.
(25:08):
So what was common at the time, that's just ignore
the inspiring. If you wanted to pass intelligence, if you
wanted to pass secrets, you would do so in writing.
And quite often what people would would do is use
lemon juice on paper, which yeah, so you know, you
(25:33):
put a heat sauce near the paper, you know, have
a good look through and you can see all the notes. Well,
the problem with that it was a little bit too
easy to check, so they developed chemicals that made it
a little bit more difficult. You know. The use of
things like iodine and boiled eggs was also something that's
(25:54):
been proposed. So you can write on the shell of
a boiled egg, then leave it, peel the egg and
you'll find the message actually within the on the on
the egg itself inside the egg. Now, but imagine that
(26:15):
if you're carrying you know, some eggs and some bread
and all the rest of it, it's not going to
look and it's not gonna look unusual. Is that it's
just going to look like the day to day. So
by the standards of today, it's probably a bit primitive.
But at the time this, this is absolutely revolutionary. And
(26:40):
the ink they refer to this invisible ink. For like
I say, the eggs paper was called sympathetic stain, that's
what they call them. So, you know, the this on
top of the invisible ink. What they would do is
write between the lines of what appeared to be just
(27:04):
normal writing, so in the gap between the sentence above
and the one below. So it's very crude, but the
use of invisible links would mean that you could you
could visually then begin to decode key intelligence that the
British might struggle, you know, to decode. Again, you've got
(27:28):
the use of the numbers. And there is another aspect here,
which is some of the codes for you know, you know,
so Abraham wood Hole uses ten, the number ten for
New York for his own purposes. These agents are having
(27:50):
to commit all of these numbers to memory, which if
you can imagine, you know, the agents are these agents
know that if they are caught or even suspected, they
face execution. And I don't know about you, but when
(28:11):
you know, if your life's in threat or there's some
anxiety or something like this, I'm not remembering everything.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
So it's you know, it's it really is quite He
used forty for post riders as well, you know, people
who were flivering correspondence, et cetera. Talmadge also develops the
use of particular codes as well that would need to
(28:43):
be decoded by more senior people in the in the
spir ring. And this involved the creation then of a dictionary.
And there were only a few copies of these dictionaries,
the little pocket dictionaries with you know, the lists of verbs, nouns, people,
(29:04):
places that then corresponded to code numbers. And these dictionaries
were given to I've mentioned Abraham Woodhall officer Socket, good
friend of Benjamin Talmadge. He had one, You had George
Washington Townsend who had them and these small If.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Those dictionaries had fallen into enemy hands, would they have
been able to decipher them? And were those like the
key to.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Everything in a way, Yes, yes, there were you know,
there was another layer on top of that. So here's
the dictionary, and you know, if you're then referring to people,
remember you've got this other code system. But if you're
writing in you know, if you want to say hello,
(30:01):
my name is James Martin, you'd have to commit some
of that numbers. So there is a little bit of protection.
But yeah, ultimately, if that dictionary fell into enemy hands,
the new dictionaries would have to be produced. So apparently
none of them did, not that I'm not that I'm
(30:23):
aware of. No, and in fact, given the success of
the ring, yeah, I think that they kept that very secret.
I did read an account. I mean, this was a
few years ago that these books, these dictionaries as I'm
(30:43):
calling them, where essentially if you lose this, you lose
your life. So they must have been concealed in very
hard to find places and used on me in you know,
an absolute secrecy.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Now in this group, I know it seems like the
their purpose and their manday by and large, was to
report on the movement of British troops. Was there anything
else that they might have been up to that was
(31:31):
giving them more information? Or was it just strictly they
were just wanting to you know, keep whatever forces the
revolutionaries had a prize of where the British were.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
It's not just military. The British have a relatively advanced
intelligence system and so for example, the British were trying
to flood the currency being used by the revolutionaries, trying
(32:10):
to flood as many counterfeit notes into the economy to
collapse the economy of the of the revolutionaries. Oh wow,
so you know, and there was a reason why after
the after the war, certainly the Northern States continued to
use the British pound, you know, as a result of
(32:33):
an unstable economy. Now the again inspiring had intelligence of that.
So then being able to identify these counterfeits became really
important because if you can't afford to pay your soldiers,
either with note or whatever whatever it's counterfeit, then you
(32:56):
don't have an army. And we know from Washington struggles
any way, many periods the continantal Army were demodelized due
to lack of paying provisions, et cetera. So this was
a very cunning, i have to say, from from the British.
But again was was intercepted by the coll perspiring, So
(33:20):
they're not just doing intelligence to you know, establish where
enemy soldiers are or troop movements, fleet movements or anything
like that. There were also counter terrorism, that's it. So yeah,
(33:41):
like it's like I say, there's there's lots of things. Now. Initially, yes,
you've got signals that are being used to know, initially,
signals that are being used for people who are going
across the sound as they used to say, going across
(34:03):
sound into British territory. You know, they developed various noises,
owl noises, which a trick that they'd taken from the
Native Americans to enable people to get behind the enemy
lines and crucially escape m and so all of all
(34:27):
of that. Certainly initially, you know, that's really what they're
up to. Well, as things move on and things developed,
there were much more complicated intelligence operations, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Not to jump the gun too much, but I'm just
curious as to at the end of the day after
the revolution, was this sort of considered the prototype of
or did it sort of continue on but evolve into
(35:01):
different a different agency or something.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Is that I think evolve is the right word, because
you know, I would just say that not a single
member of the spy ring was ever captured. After the
Revolutionary War, all of the agents returned back to their
day to day jobs, apart from Benjamin Talmadge, who you know,
(35:31):
helped found all of this and all of that. He
ends up becoming a member of the House of Representatives
for Connecticut and all this. So it you know, it's
I can't believe for a minute that he, you know,
(35:53):
didn't have some influence in, you know, continuing a tradition
of intelligence in the United States. So you could look
at it as the sort of fire you know, the
father of any intelligence in the US. But but but,
(36:16):
as I say, we didn't really know about any of
this until the nineteen thirties. So this has been a
very well kept secret, even until just under one hundred
years ago.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
They really kept it under wraps. That's amazing. That happen
for a lot, do you know. So we said that again,
how did it come to light in the nineteen thirties?
What what happened? Did somebody come across some papers.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Or I as far as I remember reading, Yeah, in essence,
there wasn't. I think, in fact there was. I think
his name was Osborne or it was something like that.
(37:13):
It's his surname. And there was the New York Historical Society.
Like I say, you know, don't quote me on this one,
but there was a paper that was being prepared on
Nathan Hale, and it's from there that I understand it
(37:37):
was quite late on it. It was probably I think it
was this time of year September October in nineteen thirty
that some documents were discovered. The exact ins and out,
I'm not too sure, but he was to do with
Nathan Hale. I do remember that part. And of course
(37:58):
then becomes the very exciting thing give you're discovering secret
and actually the secrets that you're discovering are in fact
secretive because there's then this code of who are these numbers?
What are these numbers and all of that. So I
suppose our understanding has further developed, for sure, and you know,
(38:22):
various people have started to write about them from I
think the fifties sixties into not academic text but into
two books and novels and all of this. But I
do feel that this is still quite a big secret.
I don't think a lot of people great. Yeah, and
(38:47):
there was a TV series. I believe about this, But
apart from that, yeah, it would make a very good thing.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
And see the opening scene, it's you know, the execution
of Night and Hill, and then you know, back at
the ranch wherever they are, they start making plans to
make sure that this never happens again and to develop
a system for gathering intelligence, and then they go for
(39:17):
It would be so cool, especially with the you know,
different agents and the women involved, because like you said,
you know, nobody thought women knew anything back then, so
we hear very little about women's involvement and anything very
important other than.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Some of the ciphers as well as some of the
codes that we used in the cipher. I mean, if
anyone wants to have a look at this, if you
look at the letter H in the Americas, our H, yes,
I just use with hate because herbs has an H,
(40:03):
and it just saying if you want to look at
H or H or whatever, it looks like a little ufo.
So H does for some reason. So what you've got
is eight and little symbols corresponding with each latter. So
(40:28):
if you were to have a look at H, looks
like a little UFO thing upper and the upper case
and lower case have got different symbols, So c looks
a bit like and yang if you will.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
That's easy to find online. Yeah, yeah, what would a
person want to google?
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Oh, perscribing cipher score push something like that. The image
I have is far too low quality for us to
have put it up on the for us to see
on the in the show. But yeah, I have looking.
(41:15):
I mean, you know, and please do have a look
at a look at all of this because it's you know,
he's very interesting. I've got to say. So you've got
I mean, can I just tell you one of my
(41:36):
favorite stories about one of the women?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Right, So you've got Anna Strong, as I've already mentioned,
and her job is to relay messages and meet with
someone called Caleb Brewster. And Caleb Brewster really is the
person who's going behind any the lines. Ultimately, if he's caught,
(42:05):
it sort of game over, if you will, And just
one of absolute favorite things, the little things matter. So
Anna Strong would rely messages, as I say, she'd meet
with Brewster when he's come over the line. But what
she would do is she would hang a black petticoat
(42:25):
on a washing line or laundry line whatever, to alert
Brewster whenever a meeting was urgently needed or if there
was a new job for him, if you will. And
it just reminded me of I don't know if you
remember the X Files, where I think he was Mulder
who'd put an X in his window and then the
(42:47):
next scene, someone's arrived because they've got the message or
the bat signal and what have you. There it was,
you know, someone doing their laundry. Nobody would suspect that.
I wouldn't. You wouldn't. Oh look there they're hanging that
black petticoat. Again you just look, the road is white.
(43:08):
But maybe not, well, maybe that was the because it
was different.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
That was the y. That's funny. They were very clever though,
to use things that are just normal and not noticeable
to anyone except for those who are meant to have
the message, you know, because that would be that would
not to anybody except that one guy.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Exactly. And this is against, as I say, you know,
relatively well established British military intelligence operation. And again there
is someone that I would like to just mention. I
just probably do. I would also be if I didn't
(44:00):
mention the importance of slaves in the cor perspir ring.
So there's someone there's an agent known as Kato. He
was providing again information and intelligence because of his virtue
as a slave. He was using dead drops, for example,
(44:23):
to provide messages. So it's important that we understand that
the spir ring is comprised of every part of society
at that time. And I just thought I'd mention.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Kto what's a dead drop?
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Well, in essence, where you know, you've literally dropping something
for it to be picked up at a later date.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Oh, I see, So you just leave something and then
they go to that location later pick it up like
papers or whatever. It might be money or anything.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Yeah, you know what would be.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
In it for some enslaved person to take that kind
of risk.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
I don't think there was much choice.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
I was going to say, I guess, I guess they
did it.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
The British offered a notional freedom to those who came
to join the British side. I would note that Britain
it wouldn't be until my eighteen thirty before slavery was
abolished in Britain. But that was the that was the promise.
(45:48):
Maybe there was an assumption that Washington would do the same.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Right, that was the initial thought was that well, maybe
you know, maybe they knew it wouldn't be much different anyway,
you know, if they defected to the British side, because
there were there still was slavery.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
And the difficulty is we have so few voices of
slaves from from the time, it's difficult to know what
they were thinking. For example, I do know the at
this period there was a diagnosis of a mental ill
health condition I forget its name, but for you know,
(46:37):
slaves who want the slaves who wanted to escape. You
know clearly they had some mental ill health.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
And you think, oh, you mean mental mental health situation
with the enslaved people.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Oh yeah, it was considered unnatural for them wanting to
to escape. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
M Oh, my god.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
I just want to bring in another character from the
British side there if I can do. And this is
someone called Major John Andre whose family were I think
Swiss and French. They were Huguenots. There were French Protestants
who had to flee France because tolerance of religion had
(47:32):
been abolished in France and all Protestants were instructed to
leave the country. So he's a major in the British Army,
which when you think about it, you know, he's well,
he's done well for himself, being you know, of non
(47:53):
British origin, and with Hugeno ancestry myself, you know, I
felt a bit of an affinity to him. He's responsible
for the British intelligence operation and is ultimately the person
who was negotiating with Benedict Arnold to turn over control
(48:16):
of West Point to the British. He was ultimately well,
he was ultimately course again thanks to the cool perspiring
and again executed. But the story about him, I mean,
(48:40):
we've got to just bear in mind with any sort
of I don't know, espionage conflicts, what have you. You know,
these people doing their jobs. They're doing what they believe,
and you know, ultimately it's a job, isn't it. You know,
they're getting paid. But it was just the way in
which John Andre was executed. Now he spoke to George Washington.
(49:08):
Andre appeals to Washington to be executed by firing squad.
And this is important because if you're executed by firing squad,
it's as a soldier rather than to be hung, which
is and certainly was the customary method of execution for spies.
(49:35):
What is intriguing though, I mean one Washington refuses that request,
and you know he was hung, but the witnesses to
his execution say that he placed the noose around his
own neck, tightened it. And then you know what's more
(49:58):
is Lafayette, the French gamal and author was brought to
tears and wept as did everyone else, because he held
himself with such dignity and honor. What's curious, though, is
he was married to someone called Peggy Shippin, who immediately,
(50:22):
upon Andre's death, goes to marry Benedict Arnold, now the British,
and in many ways it's due to Benedict Arnold that
John Andre is executed. So Andre himself is behind enemy lines,
(50:44):
which for our purposes is in the American side, and
Arnold so Andrea completes his mission and then returns back
to the coast to be picked up by a boat
(51:05):
order to find that there is no boat. Arnold corresponds
to him and says, ah, well, the easiest thing to
do is to travel overland back to British lines, which
was an insane thing today because that's where he got caught.
Now again, what you've got there is counterintelligence by the
(51:28):
cool perspir ring who are by this point aware that
there is correspondence between a senior general and the head
of intelligence for the British side.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
And at this time was Arnold publicly known as a
spy or was he? It was just they had begun
to suspect people like Washington and his group knew about him.
(52:01):
Was it public yet that he had betrayed the.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
It would be. I mean, the two things are going
on at the same time. So Andre's capture is also
concurrent with Benedict Arnold switching sides. Okay, at this point
(52:27):
it's yeah, at this point, no one is suspecting Arnold
of anything. I mean, there is a little bit of
a suspicion because he keeps asking for money, and he
keeps asking for debts to be canceled by the by Congress,
(52:48):
and he's demanding this, this and this because he because
he'd been shot in the leg and had a limp. Essentially,
he was removed mostly from active military duty and was
growing frustrated, clearly very frustrated with the fact that he
couldn't go out and show himself off.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Me.
Speaker 3 (53:12):
Arnold really is quite a big chauvinist, to be fair.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Why do you think he did choose what he chose
in the end. Do you think that that he was
being courted by the British and hops, excuse me, and
offered some things if he would come back to their side,
or did he have any kind of you know, altruistic
(53:42):
reasons or patriotic reasons or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (53:47):
Do you know, well, you know, even in Britain, Arnold,
if people do know him, know him as a traitor.
So you know, I think we're all on the same
page with this, trying to understand the reasons. I mean,
he is introduced to John andre By, ultimately a relative
of Benjamin Franklin. So there's there's a sort of meeting
(54:12):
with William Franklin and one of his friends, Jonathan O'Dell,
and it's from that Arnold and andre I was essentially corresponding.
I think Arnold was turned I think he was. I
(54:37):
mentioned the debts, so he if he was to turn
over the fort, Arnold was what was asking for ten
pounds which in today's.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Money in those days.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
Well it's the equivalent of one point seven million pounds.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Oh my gosh, So yeah, you've.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
Got all of this. Arnold is also facing court Marshall
for profiteering and all of this, and I think all
of that, if you know, if intelligence officers know that,
you know, you've requested, you know, millions and all of this,
(55:24):
then you've got a buying price, which ultimately is the
reason why he was paid by the British. He didn't receive.
I think it was offered twenty thousand pounds by the British,
which is about three and a half million pounds today.
(55:45):
But yeah, he got something. I don't think he quite
got all of it, but you know, he certainly did
get something. But again, you know, the plot is exposed
just a little bit too late for him to be caught.
And yeah, Arnold never reached West Point to hand it over,
(56:13):
namely due to the works of Benjamin Tolman.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Great, it looks like we've used up our time. It
was really great. We started out with the father of
our country and you know, called one of the most
respected people in our history, and we ended up with
poor old Benedict Arnold, whose name has been drug through
(56:39):
the mud for low all these years. But you know,
it was like just as everybody knows the name George Washington,
I think everyone knows the name Benedict Benedict Arnold, which
is kind of interesting, but it's it's it's I wondered
what his incentive was, and of course it's that age
old you know, enticement of money. It always go on
(57:03):
to the bottom line, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (57:06):
I will just say this before we go, that of
the continental budget, around ten percent of it was going
to intelligence at the peak. Oh god. And I'll just
leave you with a thought, I wonder what that is today?
Speaker 2 (57:24):
What is it today? Yeah, that would be interesting to know. Well,
thanks Erin for joining us, and thank you James again.
I hope we get to do this again really soon,
and join us next week for Brandon night Vision. Don't
forget to follow us on TikTok and Instagram and help
(57:44):
us out help us grow those channels as well. Also,
don't forget to go on kgidb dot com and sign
up for our free newsletter. You can also join and
become a member there if you want, but if just
like to have the newsletter is perfectly free and you
don't have to become a member to get it. It's
(58:05):
published every month around mid month, so we've got a
lot of great stories in there this issue, and then
we also put the issue online so you don't have
to miss anything. Thanks everyone, have a great weekend and
take care of each other. Bye.
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