105 - Bleecker Street's Kent Sanderson - No Win Scenario

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I haven't listened to anything you'd saidin the last twenty seconds. Damn it,
Trevor. Oh God, I hateyou so much. Well to you,
we can cross off the reading.I watch almost everything in the majority
of this Ter. What is thispodcast about? My record of damn it?
Trevor. Hi everyone, and welcometo the fifth episode of No When

(00:23):
Scenario Podcast. I am Don Scheckterand joining me as always is my companion,
my little friend, my little buddy, Trevor. Trevor, It's always
wonderful to see you and hear yourvoice on this rainy Friday day here in
Boston. I'll have to bleep thattown out so no one knows anywhere where
you are. How are you doing? I can say that the feeling is

(00:47):
not mutual. I'm not happy tobe here looking at you, talking to
you. I don't enjoy any ofthis, but here we are, and
you know I let's get some penniesout of this and keep moving forward.
Well, I'm excited for our guests. We have a sort of a wild
card today with Ken Sanderson as ourspecial guest today. I've known Kent for

(01:11):
many, many years and he's involvedwith a different set of filmmaking than we've
Oh wait, don don don wait, hold on, do you know what
time it is? What time isit, Trevor, It's time for Trevor's
Tangent. Okay, Trevor's Tangent.Welcome everybody. This is a new addition

(01:33):
to our podcast formula where I getto go on a tangent and talk about
whatever I want that has absolutely nothingto do with the podcast, and Don
doesn't get to say a damn thing. I am tractually you're not supposed to
say anything. I was just aboutto say, yeah, I'm tractually not

(01:55):
allowed to say anything. I am. I have agreed to this. Oh
my god, be quiet, TrevorTangent. Okay. I just want to
talk about Recently, at the BradleTheater in Cambridge, they're doing a retrospective
of the work of Christopher Walkin,and last week I saw a thirty five
millimeter print of the film A Viewto a Kill from nineteen eighty five,

(02:20):
starring Christopher Walkin as a Bond villainwith his hench person played by Grace Jones.
It's a terrible film. It isalso an all shut up. It
is also an awesome film, andoh my God. I was so happy.
And then a few days later Iwent to go see their screening of

(02:43):
James Foley's At Close Range, whichI think is a near masterpiece of neo
noir. It's from nineteen eighty sixwith Sean Penn and Christopher Walkin. It
is just fantastic, gut wrenching thriller. It's streaming on Prime now. I
encourage everybody to check it out.Beautifully beautifully shot, phenomenal cinematography, an

(03:05):
excellent score by Patrick Leonard. Itdoes have some I'll give you guys a
trigger warning. It does have somevery grim, very intense violence in it.
But it's based on a true storyof a criminal father reuniting with his
son, and it is My God. Is a brilliant film streaming on Prime.

(03:25):
At Close Range by James Follia,highly highly recommended and until next time.
That's it for Trevor's tangent. ThankGod, that's over. I wasn't
sure if you said, Sean Penner, Shawn Young shut up. Well,
I hope everyone enjoyed our first everand hopefully last, Trevors Nope, nope,

(03:47):
this is this is now. Inevery episode, Trevor called me in
the middle of the night about aweek ago, saying I figured out,
I figured out my place in society. I want to sing my own jingle
Verse Tangent. This is the happiestI've ever seen Trevor in the twenty some
odd years that I've seen him.Yeah, I mean grant that I met

(04:09):
him when I was four years oldand I come twenty five. The look
of joy on this man's face,this gentle giant s quiet sh treverse Tangent.
It's always with us, isn't it. Well, it will be something

(04:29):
that can pop up at any time. But please, please please, if
you enjoy it, please let usknow. And if you don't enjoy it,
please let us know. Well,I'm really looking forward to this interview
with Kent, only because I'm apparentlythe only one who's being a professional here
and talking about who our upcoming guestis. There was a tangent when I

(04:51):
was trying to tee him up,sir. So let's uh, let's uh
don give him the give the audiencea little background on Kent, and then
let's go into it. Well,I'm just gonna not ruin too much.
All mis say is Kent. He'sinvolved with producing distributing, purchasing films for
Bleeker Street. They have a wholerange of movies that they've been putting out

(05:15):
there to the world for a while, and I just stay tuned and see
what this has to do with sciencefiction and with Taylor Swift. Stay tuned.
I am Kent Sanderson. I amthe President of Acquisitions and ancillary Distribution

(05:38):
at the indie film studio Bleaker Street. My job encompasses overseeing all of our
productions as well as any films requiredfinished, and I also oversee all revenue
streams outside of the initial theatrical release, so that includes streaming, VOD exciting
things like airlines and army bases,sort of everything in that universe. I've

(06:02):
been with the company since inception itlaunched in twenty fourteen, so we will
be celebrating our tenth anniversary next year. Well congratulations on that. But Ken,
what the hell are you doing ona sci fi podcast? Well,
one is I was asked by myvery old friend Don Don to join said
sci fi podcast, and also,so happens, we are releasing at least

(06:27):
two sci fi films next year.We have only released one in the past,
which was Save Yourselves, which wasa lovely film we picked up at
Sundance and then tried to find away to release it in COVID. But
no, we're definitely moving more intothe genre space, not for lack of
trying before. It's just the rightopportunity just never really presented itself. So

(06:50):
the first true sci fi movie we'llbe releasing it will be in January.
It's a film called ISS, andit's a thriller set on the International Space
Station. So it's you have threeAmericans, three Russians living in piece up
there when a nuclear war between USand Russia breaks out and each crew is

(07:13):
told to take the station by anymeans necessary. It's goodazing. I think
I've heard of that. Who directedthat, Gabrielle Cupperthwaite, who we also
worked with on a couple of yearsago on a film called Megan Levy.
Very different movie. But yeah,well yeah, again full disclosure. I've
known Kent, I think for twentyyears. We overlapped it in college for
what a year or two before youwent elsewhere for greener Pastors. But yeah,

(07:39):
I mean, you know, scifi is hard to I guess why
is this the first? You know, the first forays into sci fi for
Bleaker and in general, like,why is sci fi so hard to sell?
Is it their? I think I'mnot sure sci fi is that hard
to sell. I think that there'sthere's there's especially for coming a company like

(08:00):
Bleaker Street. You know, we'renot generally putting out four quadrant movies,
where we're putting out movies that serveone specific audience or one or two specific
audiences at a time. So havinga film that appeals to genre fans can
be a huge asset, especially inthis theatrical climate where genre and horror and
ski fi just tend to be doingbetter, not everything that's doing better.

(08:20):
I'm currently looking at the box officecoming in right now and the Creator is
in third place, distant third placebetween Paw Patrol, behind Paw Patrol and
Saw ten, which is disappointing.But no, for us, it's it's
been a couple of things. Oneis, when Bleaker Street first started,
we definitely had a you know,a tendency and a brand that focused on

(08:43):
catering to older audiences. You know, films like Eye in the Sky and
Trombo and some of these, someof our early releases all sort of targeted
that like forty five and up demo. Definitely tilting a little bit more towards
the female audience too. As we'vegotten older and started diversifying what they're doing.

(09:03):
A couple of things have happened,you know, where a we've gotten
more into production and relying lesson justavailable movies. In two I've definitely just
been on a very hard, verydedicated mission to get us into more commercial
adjacent spaces like sci fi. Wehave a very very very diverse slate next

(09:24):
year and I'm super excited about it. Goes all the way from uh,
you know, a couple of genrefilms. We have a horror movie set
forty five thousand years in the pastand a completely made up language we have
with subtitles. How they're handling that. Yes, yes, there are some
titles interesting we have. We havean adaptation of the last third of the

(09:45):
Odyssey Staring Refines. But then wealso have some you know, more classic
Bleaker esque movies like We're you know, we're doing a film called The Fabulous
Four which starts production next Wednesday,and that's like at Bride's and a d
comedy starring Vett Midler. Susan's Randedand shair Lee Rout. So we're really
all over the place, and Ithink we'll end up releasing more movies than
we ever have in a single yearin twenty twenty four. The last thing

(10:07):
I think that has kind of heldus back on sci fi a bit is,
honestly, sci fi movies are notcheap, and Bleaker Street is a
company with independent means, if thatmakes any sense. So, you know,
to have a bigger budget sci fifilm, it can be challenging because
the price of entry, you know, for anything that's visual effects driven,
can generally be pretty steep. Soas we've grown, it's been easier for

(10:31):
us to grow into those spaces.So I've got a question regarding that much
has been made about Gareth Edwards.You know, you know before advertising making
an eighty million dollar movie look likea two hundred a two hundred million dollar
movie with the creator and how thatmight change, you know, science fiction

(10:54):
and action film workflows. But thatdoesn't seem to be the case if it's
coming and you know, that doesn'tseem like it will be the case of
it's coming in in third place behindPaw Patrol. Yeah, I think,
look, eighty million dollars is notnothing either. You know, I have
never personally, I have never workedon a movie that's costs more than like

(11:16):
forty million dollars, So eighty eightyseems like a bounty to me. But
I think what Gareth and his crewhave demonstrated is that you don't have to
spend that level of money as longas you're prepared to do what it takes
to bring your production costs down.I mean, I think a lot was
said about the fact that you knowthere it wasn't shot in London or one

(11:41):
of the classic production hubs it was. It was really shot in location location
in Asia, where you know,the costs of the production itself, let
alone the visual effects was the lower. In fact, it sort of reminds
me of the fact that that forBleaker, because again, we are always
cost time just when we're involved ina production. It's very very frequently shot

(12:03):
internationally for a variety of reasons.The tax credits can be tremendous, the
cost of production is less. Ithink in the last three years we've only
had three films that'll shut that'll shootwithin the United States itself, with out
of movies, I mean, theOdysseus movie was shot in Greece and Italy.

(12:24):
You know, we've had actually abunch of movies shooting in Italy.
We've you know, even even thoughthe Gold in My Ear film Gold of
which we just released with Helen Mirren, that was shot almost entirely in London.
One's it was technically a British movie, but honestly it was It was
that the cost of doing it wasless and there's a sizeable UK tax credit
the film could take advantage of.So it's the creator in some ways.

(12:46):
It is like a super sized versionof an Indian movie in that regard where
they built the story, that builtthe world of the movie around where it
was going to be economic to shoot. You know, for movies that you're
not involved with in terms of production, that you're just picking up, picking
up. You know what drives whyyou guys pick up a film? Is
it performance at festivals? Is itninety percent actor on that poster? Is

(13:11):
it whatever seems to be the whatyou think might be filling the need for
that coming year. What's what's theprimary driving factor here? It's yeah,
it's a mix of things. Oneis, you know, what where do
we have room in our release schedule. You know, I just acquired a
movie out of Toronto that will beannounced probably in the next week. And

(13:31):
one of the reasons we acquired thatparticular film was and it's it's sort of
a classy drama and you know,with a you know name cast. One
of the reasons we targeted that filmin particular was like, all right,
well, we have room to releasea movie in sort of March right now,
because we had you know, filmsdata well dated at least internally for
January, February and April, andthen you know, some of our productions

(13:54):
will start being ready to run MAJune July, and we want to save
some of those slots to pick upsomething at Sundance if we want to.
So we're like, okay, well, if we release this movie in March,
it makes sense because everything else we'rereleasing the first quarter is either sci
fi or horror, or we havea secret project that'll be announced in December
that will release in April, whichI think caters to about audience in some

(14:16):
ways. And so we're like,all right, well, if we're going
to do buy anything in Toronto,it's probably going to be sort of an
adult skewing classic sort of bleaker styledrama because those will do well in March,
and it's not going to compete withthe other genre titles we're releasing.
But like anything else, it's acombination of business, business, and passion.
You know, we go to afilm festival and we see a movie

(14:39):
and we have to sort of makeup bed as whether or not we think
it will do some business both theatricallyand downstream. And if the answer is
no, then we won't acquire it, even if we really love the movie.
And then there's and then we haveto run a financial model. When
I run any you know, there'sa complicated Excel formula is to basically paint

(15:00):
the what if picture of what iswhat does the P and L for this
film really look like? It's we'reconstantly running those on the fly, running
and when we're going around Sundance,can Toronto, et cetera. So for
indie filmmakers, you know that thatcalculation I assume, you know, would
the recommendation for them to be tofocus Let's say, you know, indie
filmmakers making one to five or tenmillion dollars, let's say one to five

(15:22):
five million dollar film, would therecommendation be to focus on talent because you
know X, you know, actormight drive x amount of sales regardless of
story or you know, yeah,I would that be there. Unfortunately,
Yeah, cast is more important nowthan I think that it really ever has
been. You know what, fora couple of reasons. Is one,

(15:46):
it makes the movie look bigger,no matter what the budget of the movie
is, if you have people thatare familiar. And also and people are
just less likely to try stuff,especially driving the movie, even paying a
ticket, buying a ticket or rentinga film on VOD for a fixed price
rather than waiting for streaming, andso cast can really help in that regard.

(16:07):
And frankly, a lot of thethe you know, places where movies
live, whether it's a V aD platform, whether it's streaming or a
movie theater. That signals to thoseplaces that this is a film that's going
to do more business and so thatthey're more likely to support it. It's
sort of becomes a stealth fipfilling prophecyof that way. So that's why most
of the bleaker movies, with someexceptions, but most of them will have

(16:32):
you know, name casts associated withthem. Yeah, you know, earlierly,
they're like, but sometimes we justwe buy a movie because we're passionate
about it and it doesn't have anybig cast. Like we picked a beautiful
little movie called The Starling Girl atSundance earlier this year, you know,
knowing it was going to be asmall movie and knowing that it didn't really
have a big famous actors. Butthat was just a film that we really

(16:52):
believed in bringing to bring into audiences. And what was that? You can
you show the budget on that film? How big a film that was?
I think it was in the threemillion dollar range, if if I remember
correctly. Okay, So with withgoing into genre and science fiction, what

(17:15):
what's your rollout strategy going to bethat? I imagine it's going to be
different for some of the smaller films, like, for example, a film
that you're listed as producer on theArt of Self Defense. I work for
the Independent Film Festival at Boston.We had that film at our festival.
It's slowly built up, you know, word of mouth through other festivals and

(17:40):
eventually, if I remember correctly,there was a slow like rollout to uh,
you know, a release nationwide.Is it going to be different with
genre films, films that are goingto be you know, maybe cost a
little bit more, bigger production valuesand so forth. Yes, I think
so. And the Art of FeltDefense was actually kind of right in the

(18:02):
middle. So you know what's calleda platform release where you start off in
a few cities then gradually grow.It's usually a four to five week process
before your nationwide. That that tendedto be the go to move for you
know, prestigee films that we orFox search Light or Focus or Sony Pictures
Classics would release. That mode ofdistribution has really been hurt by in the

(18:22):
post COVID age, so you're notreally seeing a lot of people do it
anymore. You know, Art ofSelf Defense was we did. We basically
hit New York, l A,Austin, San Francisco, I think the
Mee, Portland, Seattle like sortof hip cities, especially ones the head
almod Draft Houses was they were apartner on that movie, and then Popps
to like six hundred screens the nationwidethe following weekend, So it was it

(18:45):
was a bit of a faster rollout, but you know, we did.
We did a sci fi comedy acouple of weeks ago called Jewels Where Kings.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, ye. So I would say pre COVID
that absolute would have been a platformreleasement. We would have started slow,
built up word of mouth. Butit's just the sort of that mode of

(19:07):
releasing has largely disappeared because it's hardalso to stay in theaters as long as
you used to. Theaters tend tobe very they like to rotate out their
titles very frequently now, and sothat's slow burn is just very hard.
So we ended up going to almosteight hundred screens nationwide on Week one with
that movie, and it was definitelya success for what it was. For

(19:32):
the genre titles we're releasing next year, Yes, all of them will be
nationwide releases right off the bat.Whether that's eight hundred screens, fifteen hundred
screens, two thousand screens, allof them are going to be released all
at once. I'm not even Imean next year, I'm not exactly sure
if we'll do any or try anyplatform releases. I think if anything,

(19:55):
we'll probably look to do something similarto the r of Self Defense on a
movie which I cannot share unfortunately Idesperately want to. We'll probably do something
like that. Because there's a lotof similarities between this project and self sense.
As we're recording this, the writerstrike is over, the actors are
still striking. Do those strikes howdo they? I guess? How do

(20:18):
they affect your side of things?Is there going to be just a lack
of things good coming in six monthsand you do something else? Do you
stand by or is there plenty inthe pipeline that a strike of six months
or however long doesn't really affect yourend. I think it's hard to say
right now what the long term effectsare going to be. I think the

(20:38):
thing that will affect us the leastis the actor's strike, because that I'm
if I never do an if Idon't add anything else tour twenty four slate.
At this point, we're fine,We're already we already have ten things
lined up, and we have likethree things lined up for twenty twenty five,
you know. And on top ofthat, we're also able to continue

(21:00):
reduction during the strike because we're independence. We've signed, or rather our producers
have signed something called an interim agreementwith STAG basically says that we'll abide by
their last counter to the studios andthen it'll be replaced by the final deal
they reach with the studios there,and so you know that once that's signed,
you can sort of do whatever youwant, and that includes publicity.

(21:22):
We have a Meg Ryan film calledWhat Happens Later that opens in November,
and so this is her Is thisher directorial debut. It's her second feature
as a direct second feature, andshe had a film called Ethica eight years
ago. So yeah, her andDavid Ducovny. It's a classic two hit
a round Common and Airport. It'sa really lovely film that was one of
the earlier ones to get a interimagreement because the plan is when that film

(21:48):
releases, even if the strike isstill going on or or not. You
know, Meg will do the TodayShow, Meg will be on the cover
of People magazine. She'll be allaround supporting movie because SAG is given it
the okay. In terms of thewriters strike, I don't know, because
I mean, I'm an La dadat this point. So all of my
you know, my son's friends' dadsor when we're hanging around the soccer field

(22:11):
watching them play, they're all writers. And what I'm hearing a lot from
them is a lot of the writersare taking the time to write spec scripts,
write the scripts that they always wantedto write when they're not busy,
you know, writing episodes of aStar Wars show or this or that for
a streamer. And so I'm wonderingif there's actually going to be a boom

(22:32):
of interesting spec scripts. Yeah,and contact is more likely to be something
that Leaker or another independently minded companywould go for. I just don't know.
I I think we'll have a betterunderstanding probably in November, which is
when the American film market is.If there's a lot of these so called

(22:55):
packages coming together where you've got director, cast, star and you know,
project looking for financing, financing,If there's a lot flying around there,
then I'll be very optimistic. Ifit's as quiet as for example, Toronto
was, which is which is somethingof a financing market as well as a
film festival, and very very littlelaunched out of there. If it looked

(23:17):
anything like that at that point,I will be concerned about, specifically content
for twenty twenty five being scarce.Yeah. The programmer for the festival I
worked for, she went to Torontoand yeah, she echoed the same the
same things as you did. It'sIt's funny. The only package that I
saw that launched and sold at thefestival, you know, for financing,

(23:41):
was actually one that we we haddone immediately before the festival. A we're
doing like an airplane style parody ofDownton Abbey called Fockham Hall. I will
be there opening night. That weannounced that we're doing that long but that
was that was kind of it.It was just weirdly quiet. So as
you know, you know, wetalked to everyone that we've been talking to

(24:03):
on the podcast, we kind ofask about the unique stresses on for their
job, and so I wonder ifyou could maybe talk a little bit about,
you know, what are the painpoints on your end? You know,
in my head, I imagine it'slike, oh, a deal's gone
horribly wrong, or you know somethingor is it or is it? You
know, those Excel formulas so protectedthat the math always works out, or

(24:25):
almost math. The math does notalways work out. There's sometimes movies don't
do what you want them, theDylan's and they do more. You know.
It's it's because when you I'm I'musually less worried. Actually I will
see this. I have two momentswhere I'm the most stressed. One is
when I see a director's cut ofa movie for the first time, you

(24:47):
know, where I'm just like,I man, I dragged the whole company
into this movie. I hope it'sgood or I hope it's not doesn't cause
problems. And usually when I geta buy halfway through a cut, I'll
sort of know the dread will eitherincrease or dissipate, depending on what I'm
seeing. So, like I was, I watched the director's kind of a
film two days ago, and andI was like, I just I had

(25:08):
this sort of just sinking feeling allmorning along and I realized, like,
oh yeah, it's because I haveto go to the screening rod and watch
the movie. Fortunately I was I'mvery happy with the cut. But it's
that is that's always the toughest.And then the other toughest part is honestly
when the film was released and youstart to see the numbers come in,
if it's if it's going to workor not. You know, we definitely
had some successes of this year,and we had some movies which which which

(25:32):
really underperformed, and those are tough, especially as an independent company. And
you know, the bigger the betyou make both in terms of the budget
of the movie and in your marketingspend. The bigger the stakes are,
and it's it can be pretty scarywhen something doesn't really connect, like you
know this year, you know thefilm we did with Tony Kollett, Mafia
Mama. Yeah, I wanted.I wanted to bring that one up.

(25:56):
I'm actually still looking forward to seeingthat I write or die for Tony co
But I was curious how that wasfor you guys. It was one of
these things where the movie came outto be kind of exactly what we signed
up for. It's funny, she'sfantastic in it. Everyone had a great
time making it, and we justand we committed more on that for marketing.

(26:18):
Then we basically had any other moviewe've done in years and believed it
could cross over into the mainstream.And I think we just got blindsided by
the reviews. We knew that noteveryone's going to be a fan. It's
the very silly movie on purpose,and the reviewers really just went out from
blood on it. I think thatreally hurt the performance of the films.
That was our big disappointment this year, even though I loved working with Tony

(26:41):
and Catherine Hardwick and the producers.It's just sometimes you get sometimes you just
get surprised our things, and thatwas not a good surprise. Yeah,
the marketing for that. I rememberwalking into my local theater and that movie
had a stand that was as large, or possibly even bigger than a Marvel
film. And I'm being dead serious, it was massive. You walked in

(27:03):
and there was like an a biggerthan life sized Tony Kollette sitting there in
that chair, and it made me. I mean, I hadn't even seen
a trailer yet, and I waslike, well, I got to see
this and then Trevor took it home. Yeah, and then I took it
home. I took it home.You could you could thank Bentley Moore,
who runs exibit or marketing for usfor anything you see in Peter. Okay,

(27:23):
great. For the films that you'redoing in production, can you talk
a little bit about what your roleactually is on the on the films that
Bleaker is doing. Yeah, soI'm as you guys probably if you guys
looked at my IMDb page, whichI think I think you did, I'm
always credited as executive producer on thosemovies and not producer because I am,

(27:45):
by no stretching the amount of imaginationan actual onset producer, and nor would
I want to take any credit awayfor that. So what that means is
we sort of before the movie's made, will be consulted it and usually have
some approval rights on cast, sometimesdepartment heads, certainly director, you know,

(28:06):
working hand in hand with the production, you know, to build the
movie up. You know, we'rewe're sort of a backseat driver in that
sense, because again we're not theactual producers of the movie. It's you
know, the way we get theway we get involved in financing films is
as we do what's called a prebuy or negative pickup. So essentially we're
paying for part or all of themovie, but we're not cash flowing it.

(28:30):
We're not personally producing it. It'sit's a model that weirdly, you'll
you'll never know sometimes if a studiois actually making the movie or they just
agreed to basically you know that youagree to buy it after the film is
done delivered. You know, thissometimes happens with major studio films, it
happens with a lot of indies,like I mean, Black Swan was a

(28:52):
famous one where you know, Foxsearch Light was credited, as Lias said,
if they produced the movie, butthey did, it was a it
was a worldwide negative pickup. Sothat's why we get involved the movie.
So I'll be talking with the producerand the director if there's any changes we
want to the script or to thecast or anything like that. And then
when the movie goes into production,we basically go silent for that entire the

(29:15):
entire period of time, I'll watchdailies as they come in, you know,
I'll get updates. But and sometimesagain I'll go to set and be
there for literally just a couple ofhours. Usually if I go at all,
I don't I find that I don'twant to be accidentally disruptive to people
that are probably having stressful day afterstressful day and making a movie. And

(29:38):
then what happens is when the filmwraps, it's usually a ten week period
until the director's cut is ready,and at that point we get to we
get more directly involved in helping themshape the final version of the movie.
Whause then there will be a severalweek or several month process before the picture
is locked, and then they goback away and they go finish the movie

(29:59):
you with the color of sound,mix, visual effects, all that stuff.
Let me ask you this, youare I was say exposed, But
you work on so many different typesof films. So you mentioned dramas and
comedies and silly movies and thriller andsci fi everything. What what do you
watch? Can you watch anything?What do you enjoy? Well, well,

(30:26):
I have I have two little kids, so not that Paw Patrol and
Paw Patrol is what you're telling me. Oh, I'm going to the back
of screening on the Paramount Lot togo see the Paw Patrol too with Atural
Tomorrow. Nice tell mine, Idon't want to. Yeah, I uh,
my brother want of it? Comes? You wanted to see the Paramount
Lot And he's you know, he'sin his thirties And I was like,

(30:47):
so are you coming? Am Ithe guest list? He goes, you
know what, I don't think Ican stomach it. We'll still see another
time. No, I'm I'm actuallya huge genre fan. I was.
I always happened. I enjoy yourtwink. That's that's one of the reasons
I said I got to get youon early because I just enjoyed your Your
Twitter stark about it mostly Star Warsthese days, I think, but I
don't remember. Yeah, I was, actually I was. I've been watching

(31:11):
the latest episode of Ahsoka in sortof installments. I'm so sorry this morning.
What are they doing? I don'tknow. I think we're too old
for it. I think it's fortwenty year olds who grew up with Rebels
and we just can't appreciate how slowand inconsequential everything is. I made it.

(31:32):
I made it fifteen minutes through thefirst episode and I was out.
I watched the first season of Rebelsat the gym when it first came out,
and I just sort of I thoughtit was fine and forgot about it.
So I'm I've been spending a lotof time on Wookie Pea trying to
figure out what the hell is goingon on that show? Good? Great?
No, I mean I like everythingfrom I do, like you know,

(31:55):
your your classic sci fi franchises.I mean, I'm named after a
DZ comment character, so I haveDC Comics stuff sort of baked into Oh
my god, it took me thatlong to figure out. It took me
back see, Oh my god,I'm embarrassed. Oh no, it's a
whole thing. My I'm Kent.And then our first dog was named Clark.
The second dog was named Lois,the third dog was named Olsen,

(32:20):
as in Jimmy Olsen, and thefourth dog is back the naming. He
named Clark again. Wow, thisis over a forty forty year span of
Sanderson family dogs. You sure youweren't named after a dog you never met?
This could be an Indiana Jones type. Yeah, Clark was a lovely
but grumpy fox terrier. So yeah, no, I definitely, I definitely.

(32:45):
I'm a big fan of mainstream stufflike that. I mean, I'm
not a fan of the Snyder verse, but I look forward to all the
DC stuff and Marvel stuff generally.And then you know, my personal taste
of movies is you know, Itend to be pretty filmmaker driven, so
I'll usually figure out if I enjoyedthe work of those filmmakers more than all

(33:07):
that, I will personally focus onsomething like cast or even genre. I
mean, you know, anything theCoen Brothers make, I'm going to probably
watch multiple times, Like it's justit's my style of my style of movie.
So and it's been it's been goodbecause from a work capacity, you
know, my I think my CEO, Andrew Carpent I've been working with for

(33:27):
almost my entire career at this point. You know, I think we have
very different tastes in movies and whatwe personally enjoy a lot, and I
think that's led to a lot ofthe diversity on the slate. You know.
Our Art of Self Defense, forexample, was something that I had
to push so hard to get thecompany that would ree to do, and
we essentially fully financed that movie becauseit was something that I had loved Riley

(33:50):
Stern's first movie film called Faults withMary Elizabeth Winstead. I was like,
we got to do this movie.This is this is cool, it's weird.
I'm a really know why I'm workingon this and no one else,
no one else has side from myacquisitions team kind of understood what the movie
was trying to do and we endedup forcing it through and it was It

(34:12):
was a modest success. So andit's one of my favorite movies that I've
worked. I actually have a Ihave a poster signed by Jesse and Riley
and Sandro behind my behind my desk. So if you ever when you're when
you're on a zoom with me,my background hasn't blurred out. You always
see that. You know. It'sfunny you mentioned just modest success. I
meant to ask earlier, like,you know, a small success, a

(34:36):
huge success. How do you quantify, just generally speaking, if something is
a success. One of the thingsthat I learned early in my career,
which was literally the way the GeneralElectric which owned NBC Universal at the time,
considered movies to be profitable, andtheir metric was the green light model.
At the base case of box officeand vod all that stuff, you

(34:57):
have to earn Basically, fifteen percentyour on your on your investor. Not
a huge return, but remember moviesare expensive, so fifteen percent is okay.
I would certainly like to have biggerprofit margins than that to support,
you know, having a whole teamof dozens of people working on movies.
But that is one of the classicsort of film economics we we tend to

(35:20):
look at it, you know,it's it was since the movies themselves cost
such a wide variety of budget rangesand p and A spends it really it
really kind of depends on the movie. I kent. I work in mental
health. I'm a digital media producer. I do a lot of documentary work,
podcasts, work with them, andso forth. I'm curious with our

(35:42):
previous interviews, they're talking about alot of mental health issues growing, especially
in some areas, exponentially in andaround production, and I kind of wonder,
are you seeing any of these thingsin the office. Well, I
have a great portion now since Imoved to Los Angeles a little bit more

(36:06):
than a year ago. I workedremotely, but I think I think yes.
Like any Like any industry, there'sstressful periods, and certainly you can
see it on the staff when whenthere's a very big release coming. And
I know that, you know,I certainly lose sleep and my CEO loses
sleep when you're approaching opening day ofsomething big because not only are you worried,

(36:30):
but also the amount of work ittakes to release a bigger film nationally.
You know, you're creating dozens anddozens and dozens of marketing assets for
social media, TV, radio,all the stuff, making sure it gets
out there, making sure you're payingyour bills, making sure you're replicating the
d cps on time. So it'sit's a combination of high stakes and high

(36:52):
and high stress that definitely can takeits toll on people. You know,
it's I've always I'm always a littlebit of arm's length of the actual theatrical
release of the movie. But Iyou know, as a senior executive there,
I see just the incredible amount ofwork that goes into releasing some of
these movies, and sometimes it's nice, you know. Yeah, after we

(37:14):
released Mafia Mom, we released afew more smaller films sort of leading up
into Golda which is the highest ourhighest grossing film of the year. And
that's that's that's fun. When youhave a film that you know is gonna
be well reviewed, you know hasan audience is going to go see it,
and you have realistic and very attainablegoals that you could meet or or

(37:34):
or exceed. That's a really nicefeeling. And what I like about next
year in particular, is there's kindof no big film, single film that
is going to drive everybody crazy.I think there's been a lot of very
good movies that are very clear audiences, but we're not that are not so
wildly costly. I mean, there'scertainly some bigger budget movies, like the

(37:55):
one that has Odysseus, but there'sa very reasonable business behind all of them,
and I think that creates a verya place that's much more fun to
work at. Okay, and mymy, my last question, Uh,
it says on your I m dBthat you're involved with an untitled Mike Lee
project, who I'm a massive,massive fan of, and can you say

(38:16):
anything about that. I think thethe producers gay Eagan and Georgina Lowe would
buy a plane ticket from London tol a just to burn my house down.
Yeah, you think about the Ifigured I figured that. I figured
that. I thought I thought I'dtake a sway. Anyways, I I

(38:37):
that Trevor. It's It's funny becauseI I don't understand the whole Mike Lee
secrecy. It very much predates myinvolved with in the industry. Is he's
been making a movie he's very invery specific ways for decades. But I
will say the movie is fantastic andit will have a title. It has
a title. It is in post, but I'm I'm with it, so

(39:00):
it'll it'll come out sometime next year, right. I can't wait, very
excited. So my last question foryou Ken before we let you go is
sort of two parts. One isyou know, just sort of what do
you see as the future of filmsthat are you know, coming out the
next two to five years. Butalong with that is how do how do
you how does a company like Bleakercontinue to be making and putting out you

(39:24):
know, these modest range of filmswhen it appears to a lot of folks
on the outside that it's just allabout bigger, bigger, Imax Marvel movies
and that's what people are going tomake and it's just going to be Avatar
in Marvel Marvel movies that that hitsthe mass audience. Are you you know,
is there's still the fear or isthere fear growing of losing just audiences

(39:46):
in general for these you know,middle of the road films that are enjoyable
or it's no different than it hasbeen. I think I think that a
certain segment of the audience after COVIDjust didn't come back to going to the
movies, you know, or asour head of marketing says, movie going
as a habit and you know,pre COVID, this was always an interesting

(40:09):
stat to me because I find itabsolutely pathological. But free COVID, half
move of moviegoers would not decide onwhat movie they were going to see until
they showed up at the theater,they would like, look at what's playing.
They're like, oh yeah, I'llcheck this thing out. I think
that behavior sort of went away duringCOVID when people got way more familiar with,

(40:30):
you know, the on demand viewingexperience. I always say that,
you know, the independent in felindustry was hurt a tremendous amount when when
grandchildren taught their grandmothers and grandfathers howto use the remote properly. And that
said, there are definite there aredefinite signs of life in the business.
It hasn't gone away, and Ithink that we've we've gotten into more of

(40:52):
a cadence with audiences where you justhave to have something that feels like an
experience that they want to go see, and you have to believe that you
have a core on that's going togo that you know. For example,
you know, you know, wedon't have a really straightforward arc House movie
on our slate next year except forthe Mike Lee movie, because we're like,

(41:13):
Mike Lee fans are going to gosee this movie no matter what.
We can count them to show upand to engage with the movie. That
sounds like you Trevor are are areone of those guys, which is absolutely
gives me a lot. So Ithink that we're going to see I don't
I don't want to say status quofor a while, but I I am
curious what's going to happen as theas I think Superhero for Fatigue is real.

(41:37):
I think it's going to take yearsbefore we stop seeing the kind of
volume that we're used to seeing outof Marvel and d C. But I
mean, you can see one isI think I think Marvel's problem is not
necessarily one of lack of quality.I mean, they're still pretty good movies.
The problem is that they've they've nowmoved on from their core characters and

(41:59):
they're getting deeper and deeper deeper intomythology, and H and d C has
just not been consistent on delivering goodmovies, and I think has lost some
viewer trust. So if those goaway, I mean we're going through an
era where you have two billion dollarsworth of superhero movies going through the pipeline
and dominating multiplexes for years and sorryfor months, with very little else able

(42:23):
to you know, come out.You know what's in the replace? That
is? It? Is it moremovies like The Creator, which are modestly
budgeted and there's a real path ofprofitability. Is it going to be movies
like Oppenheimer that emphasize that theatrical experience. I mean, you know, you
mentioned Imax. You know, therewas a lot of handwringing in Hollywood when

(42:44):
Top Topped on the Mission Impossible.Dead Reckoning Part one only had Imax screens
for a week, and Imax madea decision to give all of those screens
to Oppenheimer the week after Mission Possibleopened, and that ended up being such
a colossally eat decision on IMAX's part. Literally, I mean, Oppenheimer's now
around nine hundred and fifty million dollarsworldwide. Fifty nine percent of the gross

(43:09):
of of Oppenheimer is from Imax things. Wow. Yeah, but did Universal
con did Universal contract those those likethose Imax weeks like three years prior?
I mean, wasn't Imax contractually boundeven if they thought Dead Reckoning would would
eclipse Oppenheimer's grosses? Thank god theyyou know, thank god they didn't go

(43:30):
that route. I honestly, I'mnot sure exactly what the deal was,
but neither neither studio was willing tomove their release date overall to have a
longer IMAX run. But it's it'sclear that people are craving that, you
know, freemium experience. I mean, fifty nine percent of the worldwide gross
and they represent around one percent ofthe actual screens in the world. That's

(43:53):
crazy because people wanted to see thatin IMAX. So the answer is,
I don't know. Something is gonnaI mean, sort of like when Westerns
fell out of favor, something elsehad to replace them as sort of the
go to form of entertainment. I'mcurious what comes after superhero movies, but
I'm not I'm not as concerned aboutthe future of the of the mid level,

(44:14):
you know, indie style movie becauseI think the one thing I've learned
over the last couple of years isif you get into something that you believe
in with a filmmaker you believe inand you believe if there is a core
audience, even if it's just onecore audience that's going to show up to
the movie or rented on vod thenthere's a there's a real there's a sustainable
business model there, and you didhave to have very reasonable goals and expectations.

(44:37):
I just want to I have aquick follow up. What do you
think about what AMC pulled with theTaylor Swift concert movie. I wish I
wish Taylor Swift's dad called us.That would have been really fun. That
is a fantastic answer, I confess. So there was a rumor going around

(44:58):
Toronto that Beyonce was pulling was pullingit together, pulling one together too.
So I was like, we'll dothat. Yeah, yeah, we'll take
a tiny fee. Yeah, seekyour paw patrol is my Taylor Swift.
I gotta take my nine year allto them. No, I think it's
I think it's brilliant. I thinkit's I think it's uh. I think

(45:20):
it's really smart. I think thatnineteen dollars and eighty nine cents a ticket,
I mean people were paying five hundreddollars to go to the concert.
It seems like no, no,no, it's true. So I think
it's brilliant. I think it's veryhard to replicate, because how else are
you going to open a movie toalmost two hundred million dollars with almost no
marketing unless you Taylor Swift. ButI could see I could see this for

(45:43):
certain massive personalities that are giving aunique theatrical experience doing something similar. I
don't know if it'll continue going throughjust one. You know. The strange
thing that the AMC deal is AMCis the distributor of the movie as well
as going to played in the butit's also playing in all the other theaters,
and so they had to hire afriend of mine, this guy named

(46:04):
Dylan Marchetti who runs variant films.They had to hire him to book all
the other screens. And then there'snot necessarily a thought as to what happens
after the theatrical release, Like there'sno streaming partner. There's no VOD or
DVD release planned at this point,is my understanding. So it's a it's
a very unique situation because of herand her family's very specific goals for it.

(46:28):
Like they have the rules right now, they have to every theater that
plays it has to agree to playit for four consecutive weekends, but weekends
only, because she doesn't want itplaying in any theater that's not sold out.
They have to abide by this pricing. I mean, it's the last
time I've heard of about anything thisstringent. Was the Star Wars The Force

(46:51):
Awakens, where Disney said that whenthey release the movie, they're like,
yep, we're going to release thefirst Star Wars movie in a long time.
Here are the rules. It hasto play for four consecutive weeks in
the large in the largest screen youhave. And oh, by the way,
we're going to take a much more, much larger share of the box
office from every ticket than we wouldon any other film. If you don't
like it, you don't get thenew Star Wars movie. Yep. Well,

(47:15):
I think this is the perfect wayto end on such a down,
such a down. Well, Iwas going to say, see, you're
a downer, Trevor. I wasgoing to say, Kent, thank you
so much. I don't care everythingelse. We talked about the fact that
we could talk about Taylor Swift isreally going to drive our ratings up on
a sci fi podcast. Yeah,no, no, no, this is
great. We're we're happy to sellout in this market. We're happy to

(47:36):
well I mean, but I meanblaker streets, known for quality, well
reviewed movies for grown ups. Andyet I was running around begging to do
a Beyonce movie. So come on, yeah, yeah, on beyond Beyonce.
I know you're listening. To nowhen scenario call Kent, he's the
guy for your concert. We're great, We're great at what we do.

(47:58):
Beyonce, it would be a greatplay, sure, introducing you to the
independent theatrical distribution marketplace. Fantastic.So jay Z, who's definitely listening to
us, please talk to Beyonce forus. Thank you for making it this
far in the podcast. Well,that was a really good interview. Is
a little kind of outside of ourwheelhouse, but I thought Kent was really

(48:22):
engaging, and I learned a lotabout what an executive producer does, especially
on the acquisition and distribution side.And I'm really looking forward to his Mike
Lee film that he refused to talkabout. Yeah, and I wish him

(48:45):
luck when they dip their toes intoa bigger budget genre film next year.
Bleaker Street's a good company and allthe best riveting Trevor, Thank you if
you were Thank you Donald. Seethat's what happens when we allowed Trevor to
speak first, we get such poetry. Yeah, oh a tree indeed,

(49:08):
Well, Trevor, I was justso thrilled to be talking about Taylor Swift
and my science fiction podcast. Yeah, yeah, I was hoping I was
hoping to derail this episode, anduh, five episodes in we got no
sci fi Doll, Taylor Swift andbeyondce references. I knew I could do
it. I was confident that Icould, uh that I could mess with

(49:29):
this thing. And uh, you'rea journalistic ring myself on the back.
Mind. Yep, I did agreat job. I salvaged this episode once
again. Well, speaking of salvagingthings, anything you're looking forward to,
I don't know. I'm I'm gonnaI'm probably going to go see the creator.

(49:52):
Uh. I told Don I wasprobably going to check it, check
it out, and then he invitedhimself I did to join me and and
we should see together. We shouldrecord live from a screening. But it
was interesting to hear it's not doingso well. I mean, it looks
fantastic, and you know it wasdone quote cheaply. When we say it
was eighty million dollar budget, Ibelieve you know, Yeah, I hear,

(50:14):
it looks fantastic. I saw.I talked to a friend yesterday who
saw it in Imax in four Kdual laser, and he said, even
that it was shot on the FXthree, that that's fantastic. It looked
fantastic. So FX three is ayou know, full frame what small little
tiny camera when it's like four thousanddollars camera. Obviously they put real lenses

(50:36):
on it, so beefed it upquite a bit. But this is the
base of the camera is just alittle four thousand dollar camera, which is
pretty impressive, yeah, considering howmuch visual effects went into it. Yeah,
and I'm curious. I mean,I don't know. This is kind
of down the tech rabbit hole,but I know it can do. It
can output sixteen bit raw and soI'm wondering if they recorded that way or
if they recorded internally, which thathas a really good code from what I

(51:00):
understand, So I'm curious to readmore about it. No matter what,
we can all agree that we needto get you a better webcam because we're
looking at you like it's nineteen ninetyeight there, Trevor. Yeah, it's
like two bit you know, toto to color space. You know,
there's a reason this is a podcastwithout a visual a component to it.

(51:21):
It does a pal signal only youknow, not even NTSC Well, guess
what, Trevor. This wraps upepisode five. Oh, thank god of
no win scenario, which means thatwe are going to be official very soon
and tell the world that we areready and available. So everyone should subscribe.
Where should they subscribe? Trevor,let's la have you do this?
One number one? Subscribe where Applepodcasts ding ding? Uh? Spotify that's

(51:50):
also acceptable spreaker mm hmm uh seehe has to have been paying attentional.
There is Google podcast that no one'shear your Uh yeah, is that you
singing? Is that how you sing? Uh? Yeah, that's how I
sing. Trevor has a case ofthe Friday is here. But everyone should

(52:13):
subscribe that Apple Podcasts, Spotify,spreak er, Google podcasts. iHeartRadio.
I think that covers oh and Audibleyeah, Amazon, oh yeah, everywhere.
Please and listen to our wonderful sponsors. Yeah, listen to all those
sponsors. Please please Penny's flying towardsTrevor. Yeah yeah, help help him,

(52:37):
help him out, he needs it. Yeah, God do I ever
Well, I am very much lookingforward to our next episode and all our
special guests this season. But fornow, Trevor will take a nap and
I will sign off. So thankyou all for listening. Thank you

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105 - Bleecker Street's Kent Sanderson

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}105 - Bleecker Street's Kent Sanderson