202 - Sci-fi Artist Jenny R. Johnson - No Win Scenario

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I haven't listened to anything you've saidin the last twenty seconds. Damnit,
Trevor. Oh God, I hateyou so much. Well it's you.
We can cross off the reading.I watch almost everything in the majority of
this terrible What is this podcast about? My record? He's turning off?
Damnit, Trevor. And welcome backto another episode of No When Scenario.

(00:26):
And all you listeners won't know,but this is the second day I've been
recording with Trevor, and it hasbeen such a dream to see your face
in my computer. Two days inthe road, Trevor, how are you
today? I just don't feel likedoing this with you right now. I
just I mean, you could jokeabout it. I can't. Two days
in a row with you is absolutelythe life soul crushing. So I was

(00:51):
doing some editing last night. Ihad a Russia edit for a client,
and I took a queue from DawnWow, because he can be trained.
Because Don has the unprofessional habit ofwatching Don. By the way, just
Don Don Donald Donald vile. Donaldhas the unprofessional habit of of watching having

(01:17):
having babble on fine Battle on fiveplane in the background while he works on
clients. Still, you know,it's it's fantastic. So I decided I
would do the same, and Iwould watch the pilot of UH Deep Space
nine. And I have seen before. You know, it's amazing, well

(01:38):
not amazing, but I there isthis shot in the opening scene of of
d S nine from the first episode, during the battle sequence, where UH
Cisco has UH reluctantly and begrudgingly ormaybe not reluctantly but begrudgingly got onto the
escape pod UH because the ship isabout to be destroyed, and there is

(02:02):
a shot in it that I mean, this show came out in nineteen ninety
three, thirty years ago, thirtyone years ago, and I remember a
shot of him, just a profileshot of him sitting there just emotionally destroyed,
and you see the pod get shotaway from the ship and you see

(02:27):
the ship just disappear in the background. It's great, it's in a great
effect shot, like he is sittingin front of is he sitting in front
of a huge window or is hesitting in front of a screen? Yeahdow
And I always remembered that shot,and I figured, like, nah,
that shot it's probably thirty years later, it's probably very it's probably not that
it probably doesn't even exist, andwatching the pilot last night that that shot,

(02:53):
it's exactly how I remembered it,and it just goes to show like
that it's a great shot. It'sjust a single shot. It's very powerful.
He is just emotionally destroyed. TheI mean for nineteen ninety three,
it was very impressive. And youknow, then he looks up and he
sees his ship being destroyed. Andthen there's the Picard cameo, which I

(03:17):
watched that scene like three times.I kept repeating it. I kept repeating
it because you know, seeing Picardovercome with guilt, you know, by
seeing Cisco in front of him isso furious and while being respectful but not

(03:43):
respectful at the same time, hewas shocked at that point versus what he
doesn't. In season three of Picard, when Shaw is doing his story about
his experiences there right where Picard says, you know, it's okay, I
understand. I was listening to theactually the audio commentary from season three of
that episode, and I think JonathanFrakes, who directed it, said it
took that one take is what theywanted and they couldn't. Ever it was

(04:05):
like not sweet and that's what thewords they use. But it was softer
than all the other takes that thatPatrick Stewart had recorded, and they only
had that one take with that tone, and that's what they wanted. Yeah,
that understanding, which is different thanwhat happened in that Deep Space nine
pilot right years ago. It wasinteresting turn it off energy to keep watching.
No, no, no, no. So what I noticed is that,

(04:26):
you know, a Card, regardlessof his guilt, had to be
very sterning with Cisco back and andbe very direct and say, you know,
these are your your you know,this is what I need you to
do. These are your orders.You know, sorry if you have to
bring your kid here, you know, these are the sacrifices we have to

(04:46):
make. And then man, Ciscojust stands right up, just stands up,
just with a look of just burninganger and you know, and says,
you know, I'll basically I'll dothe job to the best of my
ability, and really shuts him downand and walks away. And again I
just I kept I kept watching thescene over and over again, because you

(05:11):
know, you got Patrick Stewart,you know, a Shakespearean trained actor,
somebody who can just pull off astrong dramatic scene in his sleep and Avery
Brooks just really taking him, youknow, performance wise, taking him to
task in that scene, and Ithink it completely sets up what kind of

(05:31):
Captain Cisco will be. I didshut it off a few like ten minutes
later, because we got I gotto the beach scene and I was like,
this is done. I can't dealwith this. And I remember I
remember thinking that when I watched itin nineteen, I was like, oh,
yeah, this beat scene is ridiculous. Got to be okay with it.

(05:57):
Well, it's ridiculous. I don'tknow if you notice that was the
longest stretch of silence from me whileyou were talking about Deep Space nine that
I think, Well, I mean, it just goes to show what your
priorities are. What I'll do is, I'll look up a list of like
best DS nine episodes, and whatdo you watch anything? You've got the
expert right here. Let's go.You are the stars. Let's go.
You have done nothing, but youhave done nothing but steered me wrong when

(06:18):
it comes to science fiction, docorrectly. I think listeners will agree with
me, the visitor. I thinklisteners would completely disagree with you. But
that's fine. Well, we'll seeI mean no, no, actually,
let's be honest. They disagree withme, they totally agree with you.
Let's just be fair. Thank you. What why do we have you here?

(06:38):
I don't remember. Oh I knowwhy we have me here? What's
that we have me here for Trev'stangent? Trevor's tangent? You know it
sounds like this in my and itdrives me crazy. And I've got everyone
knows here. I have a nicelittle old school little box here with some

(07:00):
effects that's just kind of fun toplay with live. And whenever I hear
that, I just before I gointo Trevor's tangent because you're interrupting me and
you're not following the rules of Trevor'stangent. Uh yeah, Donna is not
supposed to be. Donna's not supposedto Donna's not supposed to talk at all
during trevior S tangent. But letme ask you, is this podcast during

(07:24):
the Trevor's tangent? Is I've gotall these bundies driving crazy spaces all red.
Oh whoa, I just found agood one. Okay, please continue?
Is let me ask you, isdoing this podcast the only like good
thing in your life, I meanreally past okay. Trevor Sangent Best TV

(07:49):
Best TV Shows of twenty twenty threeat number ten. Missus Davis Mini series
on Peacock, number nine, TheCurse a mini series on show Time number
eight, Fargo Season five on FXnumber seven, suc Session Season four on
Max or what used to be HBOor HBO Max number six, The Diplomat

(08:11):
Season one on Netflix. That showis amazing. Number five. Barry Season
four on Max or what used tobe called HBO HBO Max number four.
Ugh, God, it pains methat this show's already. No no,
no, no no. Do notdo not for the show. Do not
do not. You'll be canceled ifyou do this. Number four. Reservation

(08:33):
Dog season three on FX number three. The Bear Season two on FX number
two. Maybe finally qualifies as scifi. Maybe the remake of David Cronenberg's
kind of masterful film from the lateeighties, Dead Ringers mini series on Prime

(08:54):
and number one number one, Theone That's gonna piss off all the toxic
fanboys anywhere everywhere because it was createdby the person they consider the devil himself,
who just happens to be a greatfilmmaker poker Face season one on Peacock
by Ryan Johnson. It it takesthe Colombo formula and dare I say,

(09:18):
improves on it? The worst TVshow of Can we just talk about You're
not supposed to talk during Trevor Changingabout the Bear? The Diploma? Yes,
okay, what about The Diplomat?Have you seen The West Wing?
One of my favorite show? No, I'm going to go back and watch
it, though, because everybody thattells me to watch The Diploma, everybody

(09:39):
that told me if I love TheDiplomat this much, I should go back
and watch The West Wing. Yeah? Am I now smart for you?
The show runner from The Diplomat wrotefor a lot of the West Wing,
right, I mean, not AaronSorkin, but some. Yeah, I
believe the the show runner for TheDiplomat was a writer on the West Wing.
I'm sorry, Don Never con Yes, yes, yes, yeah,

(10:00):
I'm Debra Khan from the West Wingwas showrunner on The Diplomat. I'm sorry
to do this to you, Don, worst TV show that I saw?
What about going back to best?I thought you really like Scavenger's Rain.
I haven't watched it yet, whicheverybody tells me specifically, they're like,
so I got to finish the crowdlike cartoons, but Scavenger's Rain, I
really like. I know people thatare not in the animation at all,

(10:26):
right, and they're like, thisis this is what. I have a
feeling that I'm going to watch Scavenger'sRain and it's going to completely redo my
top ten, possibly maybe even goingto number one. People tell me that
I'm going to flip for it,okay. And the worst TV show of
twenty twenty three, Oh, there'sone, just one. You're not doing

(10:46):
list just the one? No,no, no, just one. I
I have one in my heart,but I'm going to keep it to myself
because unlike don I don't like spreadingnegative energy and this world so nothing but
joy. Yes, so uh,I'll keep that to myself. Number one

(11:07):
show of the year, Face onPeacock excellent. Did you did you see
poker Face? You said was thebest? Yes? I thought we're in
the saying what was the worst?No, I told you I was going
to hold back on the worst becauseI don't want to give out my negative
energy and the negative I just listeners. I just answered him from what he
was about to say about one ofthem because he's wrong. You know,

(11:28):
I give him a little bit ofa least a little bit of latitude.
I don't even know they tighten thatleash. I don't even think we should
hint at it because I think theviewers will figure it out. So,
uh, poker face. I didwatch one or two episodes. I didn't
really get into it. There isthere is this episode that natashall I owned

(11:48):
directed that is an homage to end, kind of a retelling of the story
of one of those It's not DennisMuirn but one of the big I L.
M. Lucasfilm uh production people,the one that does all of the

(12:11):
uh you know, not so muchthe puppets, but all the robotics stuff.
He was well known for working onJurassic Park for creating all the non
CGI dinosaurs. I can't remember hisname, but uh that was Hammer.
Yeah, this is fascinating podcasting.Yeah, yeah, please continue conclude,

(12:35):
I mean, please conclude. Anyways, it was the best episode of TV
I saw. Well, no,can we get back to sci fi here?
Because that's really works by the barrowis the Yeah, let's get back
to sci fi. Cut all thisup at the end of No. That
is no, no, no,just that, and that's the end of
Trevor's tangent. Yeah, you're reallylate on that effect. I was in

(13:03):
the fact. For the record,I'm very proud of myself for talking through
all of Trevor's tangent. And youdidn't really seem to care. I think
you've kind of lost your mojo.No, next time, I'll be uh,
I'll get back to the rules.But it's a new year, so
maybe we can learn to live together. I just feel defeated by dealing with
you two days in a row.It is truly draining. I produced a

(13:28):
short film for Dawn once and uhand that was the last time. It
was a great experience. The productcame out fantastic. Yes and uh yeah,
no more, no more. Ithink, just so you know,
everyone has a long con. Isaid to Trevor that we needed to have
a shadow go across this character whowas in like a futuristic prison cell a
face, And so I had Trevorhold a broom over his face and walk

(13:50):
back and forth to cast a shadow. But you couldn't really see it.
But I just got such a kickout of it. I let him do
it for like half an hour tofill in. It was wonderful use of
my time, and we can Weconcluded pretty early on that collaborating on creative
projects is it's not for us.We hurt you. It hurts because you
see such great talent and you justdon't understand it. Don't It hurts me

(14:13):
because I see such middle of theroad banality that I can't take it anymore.
But I've never worked a day inmy life. How's it going for
you? That is very true andit reflects in your work. Okay,
let's talk about our guests. Let'sbring out Jenny. You know what.
Jenny's an awesome painter. I don'twant to spoil anything, but she's got

(14:37):
some, you know, a greatconnection to the sci fi and just genre
fandom. So let's get to theads and then let's get to Jenny.
Everyone keep listening. Oh, he'slaughing about the ads. The ads are
the Trevor's favorite part about this wholeendeavor people. He loves it. He
sits there and listens to them,on on and on on. When the
Spanish there was Spanish as popping upwhole food sausage, I love it.

(15:01):
So random, are so wide ranging. The ads that we get served up
on this on our platforms, don'tyou think? Yeah? Yeah, great,
all right, and with that,everyone stay tuned for Jenny Johnson.
I'm Jenny R. Johnson. I'ma Canadian artist. I'm an oil painter.

(15:26):
I'm a huge geek, and I'vesort of taken those two loves and
put them together and I make reallyrealistic paintings and large scale of all of
my favorites, characters and moments frompop culture particularly. I have a particular
interest in star effect too. Now, before we dive into the paintings,

(15:48):
yeah, start trek. There's twothings there, and then intro. Are
you flaunting that you're Canadian to abunch of Americans? Yeah? Yeah,
Seriously, I kind of seem kindof a flex. Well, to be
fair, as a Canadian, wedon't really flex. It's not really our
thing, you know. So it'sso it's more it's it's more just a

(16:08):
like sort of geographical this is whereI am, you know. Yeah,
it was very strong our Is thereJenny Jackson out there? You don't like
this? There's another there. Ihaven't met him, but we do different
things. No, No, thereare a couple other Jenny Johnson's out there.
There's like a volleyball player and anotherpainter, actually, so I decided

(16:29):
I needed to. Yeah, althoughI don't normally introduce myself with that much
of a are it was great.There's another John Checker out there. He's
got one less age in the lastname. We both writing books, and
his books are very different than mine, so it's confusing to some people.
And I've met the other Ton Checkterand I like him way more than you
let me just it's just way waymore than you are you guys? Are

(16:52):
you? Guys? Asked you onefans at all? I watched it.
I wasn't super There's a joke inthe show, you know, Jack O'Neill
two l's the other Jack O'Neill.Yeah, more the tinnifer. You know,
the tinnifer reference wasnfer from the Marveltoo. No, no, blank
blank stare ish. Yeah, let'scut down one out and everybody, all

(17:15):
right, let's talk about this iswhat you're going to have to deal with
don You know, this is whatdealing with Donn is like. Jenny,
So, I first came across yourwork. I don't know how in the
Twitter x verse, but I havea hanging over uh in my office.
Here one of your your works ofBenny Russell looking out over a typewriter,
looking out and seeing the reflection ofCisco, which I absolutely loved and immediately
son bought and loved it. Whatstood out for me is that you were

(17:38):
talking openly about how you came intoliking fandom. So maybe tell us a
little bit about that story and andyou know your experience with Trek and what
happened. Yeah, well, Iguess it's started. It was sort of,
you know, a crystal in thebeginning of just basically loving anything.

(17:59):
My dad loved and he used towatch Star Trek, like the original series
on Saturday mornings on CBC on theweekends, and I remember watching it,
and I was so young at thatpoint that it I knew I liked it,
and I know and I knew becausehe liked it, I should like
it. But it was also kindof scary, and you know, I
remember very specifically seeing the Horda forthe first time and being like, this

(18:22):
is terrifying. So Star Trek was. It wasn't so much that I grew
up as a big fan when Iwas younger, but it was just always
kind of on the periphery. AndI, let's see, I was a
big reader. I was a reallyimaginative kid. But I also was an

(18:44):
ADHD kid in the eighties and agirl, so I yeah, so you
know, I would blurt things out. I would. I didn't sort of
have the filter that would necessarily keepme, you know, on the radar
with the other kids. So Iwas picked on pretty pretty badly from about

(19:04):
grade let's say, like grade tworight through grade seven, and as of
course, you know you're getting upsorry, into junior high, it got
worse, Like it just became tothe point where I was like hiding in
the library. I don't know,these were Canadian kids. Yeah, yeah,
There's one teacher that was like,this is this particular year. I

(19:26):
don't know what was in the waterthis year, but this is a particularly
rough group of girls. And getold. As you get older, it's
rougher, right, yeah. Yeah, And to the point where I just
kind of was trying to separate myselffrom it. So I was hanging out
in the library at lunch and youknow, like eating my lunch alone like
that kind of But and then youknow, and then I go home in

(19:47):
the evenings and I just be watchingTV and just kind of, you know,
trying to trying to be okay.And there was one day that I
was just flipping through the channels andI saw that guy from Reading Rainbow,
you know, and I was like, oh, hey, and he's like
crawling around in the mud. What'sgoing on here? And then I started
watching and I realized that, likeI didn't really know. This was about

(20:10):
nineteen ninety one, so Star Trekthe Next Generation had been on the air
for several years at that point,but I guess I didn't really have I
kind of knew that it was athing, but I didn't really I'd never
seen it, so I was like, wait a minute, Oh, this
is like that new Star Trek show. And then I watched the rest of
the episode and was you know,it was the Enemy was the first one?

(20:33):
Yeah, ok, yeah, soyou know, and he's like stuck
on g learning core with the romulanand and I was just like that that's
the episode that's sung to you.That was yeah. And there was actually
a little while that I sort ofdidn't see it again, I don't know.
And then the next episode that Iwatched was Skin of Evo of all
things. I know, I know, but but there's something about that.

(20:59):
Yeah, ever create with the names? No, I saw it, Okay,
Yeah, So you know, Iget to the end of this episode
and I don't really know these characters, but I'm crying. I'm just like,
this is the greatest show I've everseen. And yeah, it was
about sort of right around the pointwhere I was about twelve years old,
okay, yeah, and it asI you know, and and from then

(21:23):
on I was watching it because itwas on five days a week in syndication
at that point, and I waswatching it religiously every day. I started,
you know, recording it on VHS, and it became like my world
because all of a sudden, Ihad this other place to go, you
know, like, so was adistraction from the sort of school. Absolutely

(21:45):
served that purpose. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. And then the next year
there was a girl who briefly movedto my town. And this is a
small town too. I grew upin a town of a village of one
thousand people. So the kids thatI went to primary with I graduated high
school with. So it is threethousand people in my high school. You
got you got out right? Yeah? Oh my gosh, yes, yes,

(22:07):
yes, yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Do do they ever you know,
you have you have some fame here? Do they ever try and reach
out to you on social media?And do you block them? No?
No, I don't block them becauseit's just against small towns. You can't.
But the funny thing is is thatis that the number of of some

(22:30):
of those people who have turned outto be closet Star Trek fans who have
bought work from me and were thesame people that bully do absolutely see now
I'm yeah, now I'm angry foryou. It's sort of I don't know
everything, kind of I feel likeit all happens for a reason, you
know, I mean, it's itmade me a very empathetic person and it

(22:55):
and it led me to finding agroup of friends who were a couple of
years but in my same school whoI made friends with this girl who had
an older cousin and she kind ofliked Star Trek and we were sort of
she was into dungeons and dragons,so we were kind of like doing a
little cultural exchange as you do.And her older cousin found out that I

(23:18):
had VHS tapes of Star Trek andso he and his friends wanted to borrow
them, and that led me tobecoming their friends. Then she moved away
and then I was just with them. I mean those are friends now that
I've had for like thirty plus years. Yeah, like those are those are
the real ones. So yeah,like it really have you ever thought about

(23:41):
what it was, you know,during that time when you were getting attached
to Star Trek that made it sucha good distraction? You know? Is
it just that, like it couldhave been anything for anyone that they get
obsessive over, as we do asteenagers, that we get into or even
a little bit you know. Imean there was a point where I was
really into doctor Quinn medicine woman.But to be there, Yeah, but

(24:03):
isn't she married a ringo? Ofcourse? You know, of course Star
Trek and and and TG in particular, that group of people, that crew,
like the characters were such a family, and I mean I mean,
and now we know in retrospect thatthey the actors themselves were just loved each

(24:26):
other, and obviously that came across. So there was that like like like
I felt like part of the crew, you know, I felt like yeah,
like like and then sort of havingthis having this friend group of chosen
friends that really wasn't a thing growingup, right, You just were friends

(24:48):
with the people that you grew upwith. So it's yeah, like like
like in that chosen family, thatidea really really spoke to me, you
know. And I also at thatpoint I was really interested in space,
like like like a lot of thosea lot of those lunches when I was
eating by myself in the library.I was also well at that point it

(25:08):
was it was encyclopedias, So Iwas like looking up everything I could about
being an astronaut or going to spaceor you know, the theory of relativity
in encyclopedias and life in the eightiesand maybe early eighties, and then we
lost it all. I was explainingto my kids, like yeah, like
everything with space toys and spa andwe had it was like we had winter
gloves that changed color in the snowand all this stuff that was so cool

(25:30):
and futuristic, and now no onecares. Yeah, no one cares because
they have these cool like phones thatare things that we would have killed for
when we were kids. Yeah,exactly, exactly. So I want to
ask something real real quick, isto maybe step back from science fiction and
talk specifically about painting. Yeah,with ADHD and painting you're your that's got

(26:00):
to be difficult. Also, thesecond part to that question that this one
will be a little elaborate, soexcuse me, and a lot of things.
I'm a few years older than you. Especially growing up during that era,
I saw a lot of gatekeeping aroundeverything, gatekeeping that kept women out

(26:22):
video games, science fiction, music, many many art forms. I was
a club DJ for a long time. There was a documentary that played at
Tiff last year that was specifically aboutabout female DJs across the world today and
how up until the last ten yearsthey were just pushed out. They were

(26:45):
So it sounds like you were You'vehad to deal with a lot of that,
and I would imagine that a lotof that even exists in painting itself,
where I've heard from a lot ofpainters that they believe that there's this
very strict, very disciplined approach toit, that it can't just be about

(27:07):
self expression, that there is avery you know, it's almost like you
know, you're a samurai. Andthat sounds very intimidating. Mm hmm.
Yeah. Just to speak to that, I mean, I I went to
art college. So I definitely experienceda lot of the not just the the

(27:30):
I don't want to call misogyny necessarily, but the you can call misogyny.
It's yeah, yeah, yeah,you're right. Yeah. But also that
kind of this is what painting is, this is what art is. And
like I remember very specifically being ina critique and if anybody, like anyone
who's been to art school knows thatthe critiques are basically just designed to like

(27:56):
tear you down, like that's that'sto sort of get you used to being
torn down, which is really reallyweird. It's oh yeah, you know.
And I, for whatever the projectwas, we just had to paint
something. And I found this greatpicture of an elephant. I painted this

(28:17):
gigantic, like four foot by fivefoot elephant that was just realistic. I
painted it from a photo. Itwas really well, you know, it
was well done. It wasn't likesuper creative. But I remember very specifically
this guy in my class standing upto do his sort of you know,
what do you think, and he'slike, I just I just don't get

(28:37):
it, you know, I justlike it. It's nice, it's attractive.
I wanted to paint something that Ifind and that sort of I mean
it was. It was really crazycoming out of art school and feeling like
even the idea that I wanted tomake work for people to buy was like

(29:00):
cuckoo Banana is like like, no, you have to go and get grants
and get into galleries and you know, if people buy your work, then
amazing. But you can't just youcan't just be a commercial artist. Like
that's crazy. So I have afriend that I have a friend that it
just real quick just got her firstpainting into a gallery show and I am
witnessing her having the biggest existential crisisof her life right now. Can I

(29:22):
tell you something? So I actuallymy background was in music, and so
I actually have I went to graduateschool right after undergrad and I'm a master's
in composition, and I used towrite music and I would spend my time
splitting between music and film related stuff. But for grad school I did music.
I wrote music, it was performedand the very first real gig I
got with someone who said I wantto pay you to write music for me

(29:45):
for what I do, that wasthe last time I wrote music, essentially.
I mean, I have scored somefilms, but like I didn't want
to do that because then it wasn'tfor me anyway, I get it,
you know it, So it wasreally hard. I was like, oh,
wow, well, first of all, they didn't teach you how to
make a living doing you know,the type of composition I was doing.
But it was very challenging for meto be like, someone's gonna pay me
now, I've got to be creativefor what they want, not for what

(30:06):
I want. So and just toside note that it's tough, no,
I get that definitely. That's sortof been the difference as as I've done
more of this work that I'm superinterested in, because you know, I
didn't start doing this until around twentyeighteens, when I really was like,
I'm just going to paint stuff Ilove, you know, And up until

(30:27):
then, I graduated from art schoolin two thousand and six. So I
spent twelve years painting sunsets and sailboatsand people's families and pets and and you
know. And it was great thatI got opportunities to, you know,
make work and actually make some moneyfrom it, but it was how do

(30:49):
you keep yourself sort of together andlife or not? That's where the ADHD
comes in. Yeah, it's it'sreally challenging. It can be really challenging
to keep myself motivated. I'm workingfrom home. I was a bartender for
years and years and years and years, and so there was always that kind

(31:11):
of social interaction and that was ajob that was just like here's a problem,
fix it. Here's another problem.Fix it, you know, like
make this drink done. So this, like what I do now is so
self led, and there are somebecause it isn't just painting. I mean
there's I have to market myself.I have to I'm doing photography, I'm

(31:33):
making prints, I'm doing you know, online orders. Yeah, all of
that stuff. So it's yeah,it's a lot. I mean, I
this might be too personal. Don'tanswer it if you don't want to.
But like for me to do that, to take on a big to sit
down and focus and do something youknow, complex, it's going to take

(31:55):
up a lot of my mental physicalresources. You know. I got to
do a huge riddle and hit mmm. So I am I am. I
don't have an official diagnosis. Thatalso goes back to the nineties because I
was actually assessed back in high schoolagainst the wishes of my high school principal

(32:19):
who was like, no, Jennyis smart. Jenny is you know,
and my mother has a diagnosis insententally and the doctor who assessed me when
it all sort of came out inthe wash because at that point, his
assessment also required all of my teachersto agree basically to kind of like go

(32:40):
through the checklist, and they alljust were like, no, she's really
smart. She does all her work. Blip blip blip. So I never
got an official diagnosis, and that'ssomething that I am pursuing. So I
am unmedicated. Yea, so face. Yeah, ADHD often comes with a

(33:05):
level of procrastination. Okay, soyou you are aware of this? Oh
my, oh it's yeah. Iactually just hired an ADHD coach. Interesting,
Yeah, a couple of weeks agoactually, because as my my business
has grown and as I've gotten busier, the way that I've been managing everything

(33:27):
is becoming unsustainable because of that,because I often leave things to the very
last minute and I'll be painting,you know. I mean the Star Trek
Picard piece that I did in thesummer, I painted the bulk of it
over five days, but I paintedlike nine to twelve hours a day.
This is the the poker game.Yeah. Yeah, so often I'm doing

(33:52):
things at the very very last minute. I'm putting. It fires kind of
as they pop up, like anemail comes in. I stop painting.
I take care of that. It'sit's it's just a lot. So it
sounds sounds like ADHD to me.Don you better get back to a medical
professional. I'm actually yes, Iam not a medical professional. Don you
better get back to sci fi questionsor I'm going to take this down a

(34:14):
mental health rabbit. Horle. Ilove it well. I have Before we
get into how you transitioned into intopainting for fandom, I also have a
personal question. You have just onevery smiley Jason Freake's picture behind you,
and I don't know my question is. I'm just saying it stands out is
so it's funny because it it normallylives. I keep it above my Okay,

(34:38):
Yeah, be careful of that one, Jenny. Sorry for those that
Jonathan bris Commander or Captain Riker.However, you and you don't need to
show that it's tattooed on your armas well. We don't see that that
particular it's a postcard. And thatgirl who lived in my town for a

(34:59):
year who kind of was was mypartner in liking Star Trek for a brief
period, gave me that back ingrade seven. So number one, it's
just I mean, it's very No, that's a number one point. Yeah
wait wait a second, Okay,sorry, Yeah, so yeah, so

(35:23):
number one, it's I mean justI think having a freaks around is is
a very good idea in general.Yeah, but it's also a really it's
just really special to me because becauseit was given to me by someone who
who almost was Oh gosh, Inever really thought about this before, but
but she she was one of thefirst people who really saw me for me

(35:47):
and appreciated I don't know, justyeah, like like I felt myself with
her and that's yeah. And thenshe moved away, But that's another Yeah,
I could go down that rabbit hole, don That was our first psychological
and emotional breakthrough. That happened alot right here right here market actually,

(36:09):
but in Canada, medical stuff isfree, so we can't bill her.
Yeah yeah, no copey for us, No Copey. How do you go
from sailboats to painting? You know, Star Trek and Moonies and Aliens and
Battlestar and all these things like howdoes that, how does that happen?

(36:29):
And yeah, go ahead, Ohno, no, So I started doing
more portraits. Like I said,I was doing you know, people's families,
Uh, just you know, Christmaspresents, that kind of thing.
And my my my partner asked me, oh oh, And I had started

(36:49):
to make myself this giant painting ofthe inside of the tartis the eleventh Doctors
chartists because I because I realized Ihad I'd never painted anything just for myself
that I was just like, I'mkeeping this, this is my painting.
I'm had put it behind my couch. It's going to be amazing. So
I had started doing this piece andI hadn't really it was I mean and
again this I painted that thing forlike two years, like it took forever.

(37:14):
But he asked me, if Ican, you know, if I'm
comfortable doing portraits, would I makehim a painting for his birthday? I
was like, yeah, sure,and he wanted a scene from Stand By
Me Oh, and I was likeokay, Well, so I did that
and it was really fun and Idid it really really really big, and

(37:36):
I put it up on my Facebookjust as like, oh I made this,
and people kind of freaked out,Like people were they connected with it,
right. They weren't just like,oh, what a nice painting.
They were like, oh, wewant that movie and oh my god,
I can't believe you made that.So that kind of like put you know,
put that in my brain. Andthen I finally finished the tartist painting

(37:58):
and that was like, oh again, people were just kind of blown away,
but in a way that we're youknow, they're they're recognizing like the
craft behind it, but they're alsojust really personally interested in the subject matter
too. So that was that wasreally interesting to me, and also just

(38:19):
the fact that so many people feltthat way, because you know, when
I was thinking about painting the artists, I was like, oh, well,
I mean, like, you know, I know a couple of nerds
who are gonna like this, butbut not the average person, you know.
So I was surprised at how howpositive the response was. So it
still was a couple of years beforeU before I really started doing this.

(38:45):
But there's a really fantastic sci ficonvention here in Halifax called Halkon, and
I have a number of friends whoare who've been on the board for years,
and I would go as as aguest, and I had a bunch
of people telling me, you knowwhat you should do. You should like
make a bunch of these movie paintingsand you know, sell prints of them

(39:06):
and that'll be really cool. SoI just kind of decided one year I
had actually one key point was thatI was able to quit bartending because I
got a job teaching teaching English online. So I finally was able to quit
bartending, which opened up my scheduleto the point where I could actually like,

(39:27):
yeah, yeah, so I actuallyhad some time. And that was
when I painted that first, theAll Good Things Poker Game. I painted
gand Off with the Ball Rock,the Goonies, Back to the Future.
Like I kind of just went fora bunch of the ones that were floating
around in my head, all ofmy kind of my really really big favorites,

(39:51):
and I think I took I thinkI had twelve paintings, and of
course again I painted, like youknow, I had a pretty good pace
going through the first half of theyear, and then I kind of stopped
through the summer and then painted likefive paintings in four weeks through September,
and then yeah, I burned myselfout completely and had this great show and

(40:13):
sold a bunch of prints and thenput all of that work online and all
of a sudden this kind of started, yeah, kind of taking off.
It was wild. Yeah, yeah, I went. I went to your
Etsy store, which you can findon Etsy at Jenny Johnson Art. And

(40:34):
right away I see there's two there'stwo prints I want right away. I
want Yeah, I want the EllenRipley one and I want the Twin Peaks
one. Twin Peaks the greatest franchisein history. Sorry Star Trek fans.
And yeah, yeahs cool because itwas a commission. Actually that was yeah.

(40:54):
Yeah, a fellow had had mepaint that for his wife for Valentine's
Day one year. Yeah, that'sa great one. Yeah, everybody should
check this. Uh, I shouldmention actually that my my the bulk of
my work. I do still havesome stuff in my Etsy shop, but
all of my prints are in myshopify. Oh okay, yeah yeah that

(41:15):
yeah, yeah, yeah, theycan go through my website Jenny R.
Johnson dot com. R Johnson JennyR. Johnson dot com. Yes,
yeah, and that'll lead them rightto my shop. Now. I mean
I may have to cut this outbecause I'm a sound like an idiot,
But do you is there any issueswith like licensing and things like that?
When you're yeah, absolutely, sohow does that work? I operate at

(41:40):
the pleasure of the IP holders,and when they come for me, I
stop them. Basically, that's howthat happens. Yeah, Actually, that's
the reason. Is that why there'sno Star Wars on here? That is
why there is no Star Wars.Actually, that's the reason why why I
have a Shopify because Paramount CBS wasdoing sweeps two summers ago and hold all

(42:05):
of my Star Trek work out ofmy Autsy and at that point, I
was my Star Trek prints were bringingin like eighty percent of my of my
sales at that point. So Ipivoted to Shopify, and here we are
like I and and that summer thatwas there were several other like jewelry makers

(42:28):
and like sort of more illustrator typeartists a number of like big accounts on
Etsy selling Star Trek work gotten holdat the same time. So yeah,
so it's it's really difficult. Obviously, I would love to be licensed.
Getting licensed is almost impossible now.It's since there was like the CBS Viacom.

(42:59):
It's very I don't even know.This is like yeah, no,
no, no, it's difficult.I know a couple of illustrators specifically,
who have been trying for years toget licensed for Star Trek through taking time,
Bob, because you know, you'rethe more and more successful you're getting.

(43:21):
No, you're very visible, likeyou're very visible, Like you're visible
like you know with creators in theshow. Yeah, I mean it's yeah,
it's yeah, it's it's really Imean it's really strange because you know,
you feel it can be because I'vebuilt I have more of a I'm
able to do more of the originalwork for people, So that's one thing

(43:45):
that sort of doesn't fall into thatmass production. But also it is a
really weird thing because I was atSTLV Star Trek as I heard it.
Yeah, yeah, yes exactly inthe summer, and I've got you know,

(44:06):
I've got Terry Tallis and Brent Spiner, both of whom are like,
why aren't you selling work here?And I'm like, I would love to
it. It's a it's it's it'sjust it's complicated, it's really and it's
really strange when you have so muchsupport from the creators and from people,
yeah, like production, you know, it's not even it's not even just

(44:29):
the actress power the showrunners have andexactly exactly. Yeah, so it's yeah,
I mean, it's it's kind ofit's an amazing way to get my
work in front of people. Youknow. I kind of at this point,
especially having sort of gone through thatwhere you know, I lost all
of the work in my Etsy shopand then had to sort of like pivot,

(44:51):
and I've realized that there are lotsof I don't know, these kind
of things happen, right, Thesethese sort of the the moments in your
life when you're like, oh,I, oh, oh, this thing
I've been doing isn't working anymore.I got laid off from my job,
I you know, and I Iknow now and I've been lucky enough to
build a following to the point whereI feel confident that I sort of no

(45:15):
matter where I go with it,I think, yeah, I can still
uh yeah, I can find Ican find ways to connect with people and
make things that they're interested in,you know, whether that's movie art,
whether that's I have this idea aboutlike painting airships. I've got this like

(45:36):
whole thing about like making like skyesand air airships anyway, that's that's all
like sci fi inspired airships or likefantasy or like, I don't know,
like like that's very me. That'slike seems very me as a yeah,
yeah, yeah, only only doingit in sort of my realistic style anyway.
So that's this other kind of thingthat I have as a backup.

(46:00):
You real quick, are you sureyou're Canadian? Because circumventing IP is the
most American thing I've ever heard,you know, I mean true, but
do you hear the way she saysabout oh well you stop? That is
the most Definitely, that is themost stereotypical thing that Americans just stopped on.
I got to represent the we're tryingto you know, we're trying to

(46:20):
treat our guests with respect here stopus. I mean, even though I
just implied she's American, so thatthat might be that might be worse,
you know, you know, Iwant to ask you know, so like
you're obviously like you go to conventions, your online presence, that's all marketing
as an artist to get your workout there. You're also on a lot
of podcasts and things like that.You engage with the fandom in general.
Is that is that at this pointpart of your work, Is that just

(46:44):
geeking out with friends and new people, like what you know, how does
that play now into your adult life? Definitely? I mean, like I
first and foremost am a fan,you know, and and the opportunity like
that I've had in the last yeartoo, you know, I'm I have

(47:05):
been brought on to Virtual trek Conwith the crew from ye podcast and I'm
like a regular with them now,and that to me, isn't about I
mean, yes, I'm aware ofthe fact that I'm you know that that
that I have this platform that Ican promote myself, but it's, oh

(47:29):
my gosh, it's so much more. You know, I have plenty of
opportunity to promote myself. I Mean, I'm on like five different social media
platforms, Like I'm just so happyto be able to hang out with these
people who are amazing people. Bythe way, I'm also on another podcast,
Nerdiest Prime, and it's just yeah, like another little pocket of people

(47:51):
who are just the most fun andI get to talk about all of that
stuff that you know, for thoseyears that I was a fan in my
basement without people to talk to aboutit. I like, it's it's like
this part of my brain has likelit up again. That was sort of
dormant for you know, like likeall of that all of that trivia stuff

(48:13):
that I learned when I was likethirteen and didn't have anyone to talk to
about it. Like it's it's amazing, Like it's absolutely amazing. That's awesome.
Have you One of the things thatTrevor and I talk about frequently is,
you know, Trevor, I don'twant to speak for you, but
like there is a fair bit oftoxic fandom that that Trevor, yeah,
goes down that dark hole I stayaway from. You know, have you
had that come of encountered at all? Or you you luckily love that?

(48:37):
I mean, have you had todeal with anything luckily not too much directed
at me? I mean there's youknow, there's a certain amount of trolling
that you'll get, you know,if you have a person you know,
yeah, I'm not joking when Iasks death threats. No, no really,
no, no, no, notat this not at this point.
Yeah, go on Wood. Yeah, I mean I have a very famous

(49:00):
video game developer a town over nextfor me female she get stuff threats all
the time, she had to hire, she had to higher security. Oh
yeah, that's I mean, I'vebeen trying, you know, I try
really hard to keep my uh youknow, to sort of protect my my
identity in terms of like you know, where I live, where I am

(49:21):
at any given time, that kindof thing, because because I have built
a kind of like frightening like alarge group of people who know who I
am. It's really weird. Yeah, so no, I know, I've
been really really lucky in that respect, mostly in terms of yeah, toxic
fandom. It's a lot more likeit's a lot of the people who are

(49:42):
like we don't like New Trek andthat kind of But I mean honestly,
like like I built myself this littlelike walled community on Twitter. You know,
that was just basically just all thehappy Star Trek fans, you know,
like like in anybody that starts likeI'm just like okay, you're muted.
Yeah. So yeah, so I'veI've I've worked hard to keep it

(50:06):
that way. Basically, Yeah,do you do you still need Twitter?
What you do? You know what? Yeah, like kind of it's it's
really frustrating I am, and it'sfunny because Twitter was like absolutely dead to
me. I got like I Igot off of it over ten years ago.

(50:28):
Yeah, I think it's awful.I started on Twitter like way way
back, like was it two thousandand seven? Yeah, oh wow,
that's very early six Yeah. Soyeah, like like I was on there
when it was like me and WillWheaton basically and so I you know,

(50:49):
he said he said, he said, flex and clear. Will Wheaton does
not know who I am. Yeahyeah, yeah right, yeah, he's
gonna know now on our huge podcastspicture yeah yeah right yeah, replace the
fashoto. Yeah, ranks knows whoI am. Wow that reflex and NonStop

(51:14):
here look at this, look atthis. But yes, Twitter Twitter.
So Twitter was basically dead to me. I mean after twenty sixteen, I
stopped using it because I was likeit was just gross. And then I
went back and because somebody started tellingme about like the you cond mute keywords

(51:35):
and stuff like that, and Isort of started doing that to a point
like I just basically like wiped outanything to do with politics or you know,
that orange guy or any of thatstuff. And then right at the
point when Elon Musk bought it,I went on that night that we were
all basically waiting for it to blowup because because he'd fired everybody, and

(51:57):
we were like, okay, it'sdefinitely going to die tonight. So I
went on and put up just justa picture of me with you know that
that poker game, painting and saying, you know, like it's been a
good run. You know, I'llmiss you all. And that blew up
and Twitter didn't die that night,and I gained like I don't know,
like fifteen hundred to two thousand followersin a couple of days, and all

(52:22):
of a sudden, the Star Trekcommunity found me, and I was finding
like people that were awesome European peopleactually, in particular, like the European
Trek community on Twitter has has beenamazing, and that that community. Now

(52:42):
it's certainly people have have left,but like I say, because I have
that kind of wall up around it, and there are a lot of people
who are still there who haven't left. So I'm still kind of sticking around
just I don't want to. Imean, like for us, like you
know who we contacted you right,it was yeah, exactly a lot of

(53:04):
our guests where you know, Ihate to say it, I had to
pay for the I paid for thecheck market. I was like, yeah,
I understand the gate. I reallydo contact people, and it's it's
there's no other utility like that,yeah, you know. And I mean
the the number of like you know, I got a direct message from Terry
mettallis because of something that I said, you know, during the run of

(53:29):
Picard that was like and I'm justlike, what is happening. He's like,
oh my god, I can't believeyou figured that out, and and
and then he messaged me a littlebit later to say, you know,
I don't want to give you anyspoilers, but there's a scene coming up
this season that you're going to wantto paint. Wow. So yeah,
like you know, and having allof these opportunities to interact with all these

(53:51):
people. The creative team from Picardwas so amazing through the run of the
show in how active they were onTwitter. I mean, to their own
detriment in a lot of cases,but like really, I mean, you
know, I mean, god,poor Terry. I feel like he went
through the ringer there, but ityeah, like like I never would have
sort of gotten I think to thepoint that I have without it, So

(54:15):
it makes me not want to completelyabandon everyone that I've you know, met
and connected with there. So,but that said, I did just put
up a post that's sort of gettingsome traction right now, and I'm finding
more negativity on it than there wasbefore. So I'm like, I have
to do some spring cleaning. Itlooks like, so, yeah, you

(54:37):
know, until the oh, untilthe trolls completely take over, I'm going
to stick around, but I'm notpaying for it. Okay, So we
had a lot of our guests inthe first season show. You know,
we were able to get because becauseof the strike that was happening in Hollywood,
which also means that there's not alot of shows out there, current

(54:59):
shows. Yeah. Are you findingwork that you're going to be doing or
working on now? Is it creativelyslower? Are you revisiting old classics?
Like what do you and what?Also? What are you do? What
are you working on now? Yeah? Okay, Well it's funny because I've
lined up I have a lot ofcommissions lined up actually over over the next
six months, which is wow,amusing. I don't well, you know,

(55:22):
wo Yeah, So I have ayeah, I kind of have like
a mix of stuff I'm doing.I'm actually one of the first ones that
I'm doing. I'm repainting the PicardPoker game for a fella in the UK
who wanted it rectangular and wanted likea slightly different version of it. So,
okay, I have a Hobbit paintingthat I've been working on since twenty

(55:45):
twenty, but I have to finishit because Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan are
in town staging. Rosen Krantz andGuildenstern are Neptune Theater in Halifax, Nova
Scotia, and my friend is thedirector, so he's like, you can

(56:06):
finish that Hobbit painting by the timewe launched the show, right, So
that's something I'm trying to get done. I've got I'm doing a four foot
long painting of the Enterprise d fromPicard for a guy in Seattle. Boom
I've got. Do you remember BattleStar Galactica, the new one? Yeah,

(56:27):
there was a promo shot that waskind of built like the last Supper
of the loodcast. I'm doing afour foot long Oh my god, that's
the reproduction of that. I'm gonnajust give you this up maybe another year,
but for Trevor's fiftieth birthday. Idon't know, Trevor. I would
love to commission. There's similar tothe Battlestar Galactica thing. Yeah, there's
a photo from Babylon five of everyonegiving the giving them the bird. It

(56:52):
was like an amazing just ever andamazing refuses to watch a show because I
love it so much. What's great, I think, like the biggest possible
painting that could get to me inthe air of all these actors in costume,
this photo of flicking the bird atTrevor that I will hang for no
charge. Trevor is coming your way. Fantastic. I can't wait. Amazing,

(57:14):
I can't wait. We'll deal withthat offline then, but yeah,
yeah, coming all right. Yeah, So just a lot to do,
You're busy lot, yeah, likelike a lot of geeky stuff. I'm
also really hoping to get some somepaintings done that are a little more self
led, Like I want to makea I've been wanting to paint data for

(57:36):
ever, like I just a fewlike that that I just I don't have
as much time to do as manyprojects for myself, which is something that
I want to try to change overthe next couple of years, has the
video game community tap to you yet? Are you getting commissions for Fantasy?
And let me guess was it?Was it a Dark Soul's blood board?

(57:58):
No? No, really, Igot I got commissioned to do a piece
for Mass Effect. Yeah, Trevor, right like breathe, Trevor breathe A
shot of the Normandy kind of comingup on the ohsh I have them.
I have the Normandy symbol on mycar. I love Mass Effects so much.

(58:21):
It is never seen. Trevor,so happy. It is so great,
It is so great. I loveit so much. Wow, that's
awesome. Yeah, yeah, togo for quick second, just I just
my own curiosity, and I haveto cut this. But you go to
a convention, you're not like you'renot able to get like a table and
sell your own stuff because they'll comearound. No, no, no,
And I mean I mean the conventionvendor economy is built on fan art.

(58:46):
The issue with STLV and and Iactually have to do a little investigating with
this, but STLV is run byCreation Entertainment, who used to have the
official license to be the official StarTrek. They lost the license. I
think they might be trying to getthe license back. But in the meantime

(59:07):
they have some pretty they're still stickingwith being really strict about what they will
allow in their in their vender hall, and they also at STLV there's another
oddly enough, there's another painter whodoes sort of really realistic star trek work
who did manage to get a licensebefore the Viacom merger happened, so they

(59:30):
bring her down there every year.So there, I feel like there may
be some difficulty with it. Thatsaid, I mean, yeah, like
I can go to any convention andsell It's just that's the one I wanted
to you know, have filmmakers tappedyou for Matt paintings or anything? Not
yet, although that is something thatI would really really love to love to

(59:52):
do. I mean, oh mygod, like you know, as much
as a lot of that work isdigital now yeah, oh my god.
Being able, which leads me tomy next question. And don I have
to use the expletives for this,so feel free to be I mean,
you gotta be out. Yeah.Number number three is ready? Okay,
Okay, how much Jenny, howmuch is AI art picking up your bit?

(01:00:17):
Oh? Well, good question.Trevor A hate it, hate it
I hate it. It's crows.I hate it. I I feel lucky
because I am a traditional paint onbrush artist that there is something in what

(01:00:45):
I do that people connect with ina way that they can't get from AI
art. That said, absolutely,there are people who would look at an
AI piece and look at what Ihave done and not really see a difference.
And I get that, which isone of the reasons why I feel
it's so important to show my processand you know, even be on my

(01:01:10):
social media just like talking to peopleand saying like, but this is me,
I'm the artist. Like this isbecause those connections really do matter.
So yeah, like I don't feellike AI art is currently a fucking out
my shit, but it's coming.It's coming or cool? Oh yeah,

(01:01:37):
like it could it could know.I mean, they just released that that
min Journey list of well like sixteenthousand artists whose work they've just dumped into
it. Like, so I've justas you're telling me this, went over
to chat GBT, which does imagesnow too, and say, oh yeah,
imagine a painting in the style ofJenny R. Johnson that shows start

(01:01:57):
truck, it says, creating apainting in the style of a specific contemporary
artist like Jenny R. Johnson,especially combined with copyrighted content such as Star
Trek, is not permissible. However, However, wait wait, wait,
I can create an original science fictionthemed painting that captures a similar essence.
Let's imagine. Let's imagine a sceneset in space with the futuristic spaceship stars

(01:02:20):
and distant planets, emphasizing vibrant colorsand abstract elements to give it a unique
artistic touch. That way, wecan respect the originality of both the artists
and the Star Trek franchise. Don, you're gonna make her cry stop okay
stop, it's nowhere near us.No no, no, no no,
And I wouldn't blame her at all. This is not this is Look at

(01:02:44):
this. This is nothing. Whatis this? That's nothing. So we
got some time for for the listenersout there. Don did something very visual
right now that doesn't translate at allto podcasts. So this is sharing.
This is how good I've an interviewer. Don is good. Good job Don

(01:03:06):
again for I've got her artwork.Great job, You're very good at this.
We're very very good. I'm buyingbefore we go because we're eating up
your time I got to ask you, like, how do you know we
got so many more questions. I'msorry, I am lots of time.
You know that that I think islike the essence of Deep Space nine,
one of my favorite shows, youknow, so I got it, like
how do you choose the moments thatyou want to go? And that one

(01:03:28):
in particular, and and and andthe piece that we're talking about there for
those who can't hear us or sorry, who can't see see hear us?
Oh my god, all right,all right is the scene from the Deep
Space nine episode Far Beyond the Starswhere Benny Russell is looking out the window
and sees the reflection of Ben Cisco. So that particular scene was chosen.

(01:03:52):
That was another commission, and thatwas chosen by a gentleman who has become
a collector and friend in San Francisco, who his wife's African American, and
he introduced her to Deephase nine andshe connected hugely with with Cisco and that

(01:04:15):
episode in particular, just that thatmoment, and he just thought it was
such a such a kind of evocativemoment. And that's that's what I look
for when i'm you know, whenI'm wanting to to choose. Yeah,
like to choose the moment. Ieither want something that is like iconic or

(01:04:35):
something that really really kind of getsacross like the feeling of watching it.
You know, think this because thisis somewhat seriously and I'm saying this is
like ab not a Devil's advocate.But I don't believe what I'm saying.
But does painting something that already hasemotion baked in? Is it cheating?
Is it cheating? I mean maybe, but I don't I don't care.

(01:05:02):
No, I don't know. No, No, I actually think that's a
very very compelling Is it is?Absolutely? I mean, I think for
me, the challenge isn't so muchin creating a new feeling. It's more
about like working from photos, workingfrom an existing reference. For me,

(01:05:27):
the challenge in it is to recreatethe light, the mood, the the
you know, even down to thefact that you know that that episode is
filmed on it's like on video,isn't it Like it's not even it's not
an HD, just just those kindof things. I'm really interested in light

(01:05:51):
shadow, the things the camera does. So for me, what I'm doing
and sort of my my experience andmaking these paintings for myself, has a
lot more to do with yeah,like like like accurately recreating a moment,

(01:06:15):
and yeah, if it the factthat these moments have like feeling attached to
them, awesome, you know that'slike that's a bonus, I guess you
could say. So to play offof what Don asked, I'm a big
cinema guy. And there are threeexcellent painting documentaries about this very subject.

(01:06:36):
One is by Orson Wells called Ffor Fake. There's another one called Tim's
Vermire, and then there's Exit throughthe Gift Shop. All of these three
films have either the main the mainstory or the subtext is is copying an

(01:06:57):
art into itself? Right? Isis capturing an emotion that's already there a
with with such with something that's sodisciplined as painting, Is it an artistic
expression unto itself? How do youfeel about that? I think yes,
because similarly, you know, II also am really interested in It's something

(01:07:23):
that I have done in the past, is recreating photographs and not like a
static family portrait photograph, but butcandidates, you know, catching people in
a moment. And to me,the people in those photos are the people

(01:07:43):
who love the people in those photoshave have emotion attached to it. You
know, they're they're not, Imean, and that emotion obviously is going
to change depending on who the vieweris, but that you could say that
for any of the pieces that Ido. I mean, if you're not
a Star Trek fan, you're goingto look at these paint pieces and be
like, oh wow, look atthat reflection or whoa that shirt? The

(01:08:08):
way that it's painted, it's alldifferent colors, so it's I mean,
that's one thing that I did takeaway from art school is my intention means
very little when it's actually in frontof a human, because every human is
coming to exactly, yeah, exactly. I think that is a fantastic way

(01:08:32):
to look at That's how David Lynchlooks at art. He doesn't like to
explain his films at all. Hecares more about what you're bringing to his
films and how you interpret it.And I think that is a very that
is a way to not gatekeep yourown art absolutely yeah, and that's something

(01:08:53):
I too. I really I lovethe fact that, to be honest,
I mean, there are there arepeople who who I have known my entire
life who see what I'm doing andare like, oh, these are nice
paintings, but like I really missthose sunsets, you know. So it's

(01:09:14):
I don't know. I I appreciatethe opportunity with this work in particular because
I feel like it reaches a largergroup of people in a in an accessible
way, like I'm not making likeare sorry I'm doing I'm doing air quotes

(01:09:36):
here, you know what, donI for radio? This interview alone has
convinced me that we start we needto start doing a videocast because the listeners
who don't see this. Twenty fivepercent of this interview is Jetty's hand motions,
which is but but which is likean art on our self. I
mean it's never There's a lot ofpeople that use their hands to talk,

(01:09:58):
but I've never seen any thing likelike Jenny's is an art form. It's
really amazing to watch, and Ifeel like we're leaving. I feel like,
yeah, right, no, Imean it's I'm not making an insult.
It's truly something to watch. Iknow, I do it, and
I appreciate your appreciation. It's sortof like the engine that makes my brain

(01:10:20):
and my mouth connect, you know, there you go, well, I
actually have a theory about it,but we'll get to that later when we
talk about the bullying stuff. Dondo you have any more questions before I
go down a dark rabbit hole?Oh my god, dark rabbit hole.
Okay, before we get said,Okay, fine, we may stick this
at the end because if trivor makesus all said, then then we need

(01:10:41):
to end on a happy note.But my really, my last question was
going to be, you know,you've got this great pipeline of commission work
out, you know in coming up. You know, you're painting, You're
blowing up on Twitter ex whatever wewanna call it, and you know other
places too much, and you've gota following and you've got a following and
all that. Yeah, I onlyknow what I know. You know,

(01:11:02):
what's I guess what's the dream?Like? At what point are you like
boom, like like my work iseverywhere around? Like what is there anything
else or any level of engagement thatyou're like that's your goal or just to
keep on I mean just being ableto just being able to do this for
a living. I mean the factthat I have been now for eighteen nineteen

(01:11:24):
months doing art solely as my myjob is literally a dream come try.
Like like I'm I I've already hitlike something I never really thought I could
do. So that in itself islike mind blowing. The fact that I

(01:11:45):
have found this home in the StarTrek community and that it's related to my
art is another level of like likemind blowing, you know, Like this
is just like if if I couldgo back and tell me, like like

(01:12:05):
I feel like I would never believeit. I mean, it's it's just
it's absolutely literally a dream come true. So so I mean to go farther,
I mean, I would like toI would like to sell more work.
I would like to sell enough workat a price point where I don't

(01:12:28):
necessarily have to be like pustling constantly. That would be pretty cool, yeah,
you know, And and getting theopportunity to do work specifically for some
of these properties would be amazing obviously. Like that's you know. I I
had Doug Drexler you know, makeup VFX ship design, like he he

(01:12:57):
found me from the same video Ithink that you saw on but on Facebook,
and he has asked me to submita piece for It was supposed to
be this year, but I thinkit's going to be a retrospective this year,
but for the Ships of the Linecalendar that he's been editing for the
last like twenty years. So I'msupposed to be participating in that in twenty

(01:13:19):
twenty six, which for me islike that's huge because that's a like exactly
exactly, So yeah, getting moreopportunities I think to do that kind of
work, especially within the Star Trekuniverse, would be yeah, like just
the cherry on top amazing because Ijust say good for you, because I

(01:13:41):
know Tray and I just talked aboutthis before you came on. But like,
I can't draw for the life ofa payope or anything as a former
musician, and he as an artistnow, Like, it took me twenty
years of working, so I starteda video production studio in Boston, and
so it took me twenty years essentiallyof corporate work to get to a point
where the goal when I by accidentstarted it was, oh, i'll work

(01:14:04):
a little bit and i'll do myart the other time. I'll write some
music book, I'll do a film. It really took me almost twenty years
to get to the point where thebusiness allowed me to do things like work
on a book and create films anddo this wonderful podcast and things like that.
But to be able to get tothe point where the art is supporting
you fully, it's a rare thing. It's very it's a challenge, yeah,

(01:14:26):
talent and patience and luck and yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm very,
very fortunate. And that to mealso is you know, because because
I'm checking in on you know,I've got my Instagram, my TikTok and
all of the like, and youknow, I keep an eye on the
follower account. I mean, obviouslymore eyeballs is good, but my goal
isn't to have a million followers.Like that's not I don't want to be

(01:14:53):
an influencer exactly, Like like Ithe reason those platforms are good for me
is because it allows people into mystudio, you know, to actually see
what I'm doing and connect with meand hopefully buy my work. So but
yeah, it's definitely not about justbeing famous because that, as it turns

(01:15:13):
out, it's a whole lot ofwork and not what I want to do.
So all right, before we letyou go, apparently Trevor's got some
something cooking. We gotta we gottauh bullying, Are you okay? Talking
about it. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. So bullying has its own

(01:15:40):
set of trauma that comes with it, and something that I've can again not
a doctor, but something that I'veconsistently seen, is that trauma leads to
falling deep down into often a fandomand and losing yourself in it, which

(01:16:04):
is something that I'm thinking we're seeingon an almost epidemic scale with the toxic
fandom of a lot of properties outthere. But yeah, so do you
felt do you feel that that everhappened to you or were you or do
you think being creative maybe gave youthat distance from not slipping, you know,

(01:16:29):
totally down that hole and kind oflosing can you know, kind of
losing connection with reality? I meanI think hmm, I think the fact
that I was able to connect withother people who love the same things.

(01:16:53):
But also, I don't know,we're we're also introducing me to other other
things at the same time, likelike the people those kids that I met,
you know, those older kids theyintroduced me to, you know,
like like like I actually started playingDungeons and Dragons with them, you know,

(01:17:14):
one of them showed me my firstmoney Python movie, right, so,
and and then at the same time, I also had like, like,
my family are really wonderful, creative, empathetic. Yeah. Yeah,
My sister and I both ended upin creative fields. My sister is a

(01:17:36):
modern dancer who actually now is aa wedding officiant in her in her in
her second career. My mother wasa freelance artist. My dad does graphic
design like like, and they alwaysreally encouraged us to be ourselves and even

(01:18:00):
you know, I so home wasa haven. It wasn't the type it
wasn't the type of thing where yoube you were being bullied at school and
bullied at home. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, absolutely, so there was
that definitely. I also, youknow, I mean it used to drive
me crazy, but I would comehome and tell my mom stories and she
would, you know, and shewould say, well, you know,
I mean remember that, you know, some of those kids don't have a

(01:18:24):
happy home life, and one ofthe reasons that they do these things is
because they're not happy. And sojust just having that input, I think
over the years, and I meanat the time, I was like,
I hate this. Mom stopped sayingthis, this is awful, But that
stuck, you know, those ideasstuck, and I feel like Star Trek

(01:18:46):
in particular, but all of thesefandoms, because I mean, I'm a
fan of everything, everything, andI think in a lot of ways,
especially once I once I was ableto kind of pursue art as something I
wanted to do, I found myselfmuch more than I ever think I lost

(01:19:09):
myself in any of it. TheSo I think it's great that. I
think it's really great that you learnedempathy by by trying to understand where your
bullies came from. However, italso sounds like there is a there might

(01:19:33):
be a feeling of nobody's listening tome because even though I'm developing this empathy,
I'm still getting bullied. And thenI have all these teachers who are
not psychological professor professionals weighing in onmy mental health, which I again this

(01:19:54):
might be a jump, but uh, I can get as animated as you
when I engage in a very passionateconversation of cinema, you know, and
Mark Bergman's the greatest filmmaker who everlived, and I'll fight anybody that says
different, you know, kind oflike that, and I get very animated

(01:20:16):
and passionate. Do you think thatcomes from a need to like be very
convincing. Two to listen. Youknow, I need you to listen to
me. Yeah, here, Ineed you to believe me. I got
to amp it up and show youhow serious this is so that you will
believe me. There's there's an elementof that, definitely. I mean,

(01:20:42):
especially with ADHD, we have areal issue with making sure we're understood or
believe or believed. In my case, yes, it's it's more less than
it's less understood than being believed.Yeah, Like every email I write has
you know, five or six differences. That's a parenthesis where I'm you know,
clarifying, Yeah, which is yes, exactly what. But I like

(01:21:10):
this what you see, This ismy baseline. This is my baseline.
Like I overall have a pretty positiveoutlook pretty well everything. Yeah, and
that's not to say that I haven't. I mean i've you know, I've
I've had issues with depression. Igave up alcohol four years ago because I

(01:21:32):
definitely abused it for years. Ohfor you awesome? Yeah, And but
old alcohol and meds do yes,they do not mix. Yeah, definitely.

(01:21:53):
So yeah, like like yes,asterisk to what you're saying, because
definitely there's a. There's an elementof that, but I mean, I
would you can throw pretty well anytopic at me and I'm gonna yeah.
No, I'm the same way withthe exception of Dawn, because I do

(01:22:15):
not care what he thinks. Thatoff, No, not at all.
Okay that you know, I'm notgoing to go down any any anywhere.
I'm trying to sell her paintings.You're trying to go down this dark rabbit
hole. I'm trying to create empathyand sympathy with the listeners, so I
don't which will, in a way, maybe push them a little further to

(01:22:38):
make a purchase on those stories.Yeah, of course, I know I'm
getting some I definitely over over thelast couple of years, and especially since
I've been doing more of this kindof thing, like actually like like doing
interviews with people or just or justbeing being on camera. I've you can,
like, I definitely try really hardto consider what I'm saying before it

(01:23:02):
comes out of my boat. Itdoesn't always work, So there's there is
that for sure that I'm you know, I don't have to yeah, like
as your star rises, you definitelyhave to. Yes, Yeah, And
I'm not afraid of looking silly likeI'm not whatever, you know, but
I definitely, yeah, I don'twant to be misunderstood. You know,

(01:23:24):
you're not wrong, all right.Yeah, it's something that I I think
I have it worse than you.It eventually comes across as desperation, and
you know, it's something that youknow, my doctors and I we've we've
you know, I have to learnhow to manage it. But then it
all goes back to the bullying andthe abuse and stuff like that. Yeah,

(01:23:46):
all goes that that RSD, likethe rejection sensitivity, you know that
every you know, all of thoseall of those lights and all of those
they they hurt and they land andthey stick. You know. It definitely
has taken me a long time toI don't know, to to be more

(01:24:13):
comfortable just you know, not worryingwhat people are going to think or And
it's definitely something I've gotten better atbecause yeah, I navigate to connect this
all with painting, and I thinkthis is you know, this is not
meant as an insult, but doyou think painting is your way? Why?

(01:24:34):
He says, you know, youknow, because that because that is
my that's my parentheses, that's myYeah, that's my clarification is painting your
way of one controlling the conversation.Hmm, whoa, you know, not

(01:24:59):
entirely, and because because that's whatfilmmaking is for me, it's controlling,
I realized that it is my wayof controlling the conversation. I mean,
I think I don't know because Ibecause of the fact that I do fan
art I separate, Yeah, becauseit definitely opens me up for criticism or

(01:25:30):
right, you know, any numberof kind of those sorts of critiques.
So yeah, so I don't know. I don't know. I don't necessarily
know, I think, but Ithink that point is right. I think
it doesn't it doesn't really mean that. Yeah, but I definitely showing up

(01:25:51):
on my social media and trying tolike have people see me as part of
that. I think it's important tome, not because I'm trying to,
you know, show people some kindof perfect life or anything like that.
I mean, it's actually really importantto me that people see that it's not
perfect. But I think that tome is a little more about trying to

(01:26:14):
control the conversation or the narrative interms of I'm not just some right,
you know, reproduction machine, actionmachine. But no, I know,
I know exactly what you mean.I know, yes, yeah, yeah,
you know that I'm that I Iam an artist. I am you

(01:26:35):
know, I've worked for over twentyyears to the point that I'm at in
terms of like skill level and allof that stuff. So I think maybe
that's a little more where I'm tryingto direct it. No, that's great.
That is that is It sounds liketo me that you have you've you've

(01:26:58):
come out the other side on onthe positive wave of bullying and trauma and
uh and you know, becoming asuccessful artist who not only can do the
art, but but uh, youknow, play the game as well,
because I think half of that isnot just can you do the art,
but it's can you play the gamethese days? Definitely? Yeah. Yeah.

(01:27:23):
Anyways, you mentioned reclaiming the conversationor taking hold of the conversation.
That's all of your like speaking thatI can deal with. Yeah, that's
fine, that's fine. That's allthat I can deal with. I'll be
honest with things, Jenny. Sotell tell us once more where where people
can buy your things and see whatyou do? Plug anything you need to
plug, absolutely absolutely, so thebest way to find kind of everything you

(01:27:45):
want to find about me, whetherit's just what I do. You want
to see the whole gallery of allof these, all of these works,
the scene, the scenes from themultiverse I call them. You can find
that at Jenny R. Johnson dotcom. That's also a great way to
get to my shop or find outinformation about commissioning a painting if that's something
you're interested in. And then youalso can follow me on Instagram or threads

(01:28:10):
or TikTok or Facebook at Jenny R. Johnson Art. And I'm still hanging
in there over on the Dead Birdapp at Jenny R. Johnson blaming that
bird app. Yeah, well,thank you so much. And I'm going
to give you, you know what, two year notice here. But Trevor,
this this is going to be thecommissioned work I'm going for you.
This is I'm showing them the Babylonfive cast all given the camera the bird

(01:28:34):
here and I don't know what's thebiggest forty foot is that big enough for
you? Just hanging up in Trevor'scathouse here? Oh wow, that's Jenny.
If you take that job, dotdog jobs are good all I'm gonna
say, dot dot dot Well,I'm booking about six months out. Just

(01:28:56):
keep that in mind. The fiftiethis coming soon. It is it's coming
really soon. Well, Jenny,thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you, thank you, Jenny. This is great you guys, and
welcome back, Trevor. That wasawesome talking to Jenny. What do you
think? Uh, fantastic. AndI admire anybody I genuinely, sincerely mean

(01:29:23):
this. I admire anybody that canpaint, let alone make a career out
of it. It is. Ido think it is one of the most
demanding disciplines out there, and Icompletely admire. Can you paint? I
can't paint? I cannot I haveHow do I say this? I can

(01:29:46):
draw a circle with a ruler.That's how bad I am drawing and painting.
Does that make sense? Yeah?I can't. You can't draw anything.
I straight lines come out squiggily.Yeah. I can't do any of
that stuff you do. Well,I'm still kind of determine that. Yeah.
Ask my therapist and she'll be justas stumped. Speaking of which,

(01:30:12):
I was home depot doing these days. Ah, that's a burd was in
my early twenties, I tried toacupuncture and for some pain I got I
actually have to I actually have todo that. I have to start doing
that. And it was quite painful, and I was like, really,
it's painful. It wasn't painful.It's not supposed to be painful. It
was hurting me quite a bit.There's a reason why it's painful. It

(01:30:32):
had to do with it was hittingnerves that weren't in the right spot.
But maybe it's because the needles hadto dig through six inches of Doritos in
order to get to the muscle.Like, excuse me, I do not
like Dorito's. They're not a sponsorand I don't eat them, So strike
that statement from the record. No, So what happened. I was going
six inches of Whole Food sausage.How about that? Is that better?

(01:30:55):
Is that better? Okay, goahead, God, let's leave that alone.
And I did about like six orseven sessions and it was very painful.
And then one day I'm in homeDepot and I see my acupuncturists working
at home Depot in like the nailsdepartment, and I'm like what, yeah,
I'm like, you know what Imight be done with this guy?

(01:31:15):
Are you sitting Wait a minute,are you serious? One hundred percent serious.
He was working you know in likelike the tool section of home Depot
and was also an acupuncturist. Ohthat makes me so happy to know that,
like you had such a personal crisisof all places, home depot,
a place where you don't belong atall twenty years ago. And I am

(01:31:38):
very good with my hands, andI Jesus and uh, I I don't
know that now now I'm like,now I'm revitalized. Should we go and
do another podcast right now? Tohear your to hear your suffering. It's
my job to make you happy,by the endor. Thank you, buddy,
thank you. Well. That isall all the time we have for

(01:32:00):
this episode of No Win Scenario.Everyone, make sure to subscribe on all
your favorite platforms, and uh thanksfor listening. Rate us, give us
good ratings, oh, share andfan fare. Tell people we got to
open up the fan mail vault.We have fan mail fly in so uh
yeah, keep those questions and mailcoming. Hate mail. Maybe Know Scenario

(01:32:23):
Podcast at gmail dot com. That'sNo Win Scenario Podcast at gmail dot com.
I'm done, I'm Trevor. Thanksfor listening. Good bye. Now,
in today's world, mental health iseveryone's concern If you are someone you

(01:32:43):
know is in crisis, please usethese resources. For US listeners, call
one eight hundred nine five zero sixtwo six four or text helpline all one
word h E L P l IN E to six two six four zero,
or email helpline at NAMY dot org. That's n A m I dot

(01:33:08):
org. For our international listeners,please visit suicide stop dot com. That's
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202 - Sci-fi Artist Jenny R. Johnson

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}202 - Sci-fi Artist Jenny R. Johnson