August 26, 2025 • 59 mins
Editor of Hulu's Paradise and NBC's This is Us Lai-San Ho beams into the No Win Scenario studio. In other breaking news, Trevor admits to liking Attack of the Clones.
No Win Scenario is your portal into the universe of science fiction entertainment. Join Don and Trevor as they debate varied viewpoints and dissect beloved narratives. Engaging with industry insiders, they delve into the everyday realities of production and highlight the growing importance of mental health awareness in the film and television industry.
Podcast: No Win Scenario
Episode Number: 305
Release Date: August 26, 2025
Duration: 00:59:00
Hosts: Don Schechter and Trevor Chamberlain
Guests: Lai-San Ho
Website: https://www.nowinscenariopodcast.com
Email: NoWinScenarioPodcast@gmail.com
Follow No Win Scenario on X (Formerly Twitter): @nowinscenario
Follow No Win Scenario on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61551025621867
TikTok: @NoWinScenarioPodcast
Subscribe on your favorite platform
Mental Health Crisis Resources
In the US: 1-800-950-NAMI (6264)
Or text HELPLINE to 62640
Or email helpline@nami.org
International: visit suicidestop.com
No Win Scenario is your portal into the universe of science fiction entertainment. Join Don and Trevor as they debate varied viewpoints and dissect beloved narratives. Engaging with industry insiders, they delve into the everyday realities of production and highlight the growing importance of mental health awareness in the film and television industry.
Podcast: No Win Scenario
Episode Number: 305
Release Date: August 26, 2025
Duration: 00:59:00
Hosts: Don Schechter and Trevor Chamberlain
Guests: Lai-San Ho
Website: https://www.nowinscenariopodcast.com
Email: NoWinScenarioPodcast@gmail.com
Follow No Win Scenario on X (Formerly Twitter): @nowinscenario
Follow No Win Scenario on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61551025621867
TikTok: @NoWinScenarioPodcast
Subscribe on your favorite platform
Mental Health Crisis Resources
In the US: 1-800-950-NAMI (6264)
Or text HELPLINE to 62640
Or email helpline@nami.org
International: visit suicidestop.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I haven't listened to anything you've said in the last
twenty seconds.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Damn it, Trevor. We had a shit.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Lying two friends who hate each other, rude talking science fiction.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It has become this cultural phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Along with some special guests.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I appreciate what Star Trek did to me. I would
love to have this book get banned. And that wasn't acting,
that wasn't real.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Do you know what Our YouTube channel is absolutely not
No Win Scenario with Trevor and Dawn. Okay, we're not
doing that.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Boom.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of No Stop
Waving Trevor stop it all season way wait waved. I
apologize to those people who are listening to us because
he just sits there and waves and waves and irritates
me once more. I'm gonna try this again. Hi everyone,
and welcome to another episode of No Scenario Podcast. Trevor
(00:53):
is doing hand puppets or something. I think he's lost
it here in the No Win Scenario Podcast studio. My
name is Don Checkter. This is Trevor Chamberlain, who is
clearly losing his mind.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, which is the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
The end of the day here, I just I couldn't
let another moment go by without trying to understand. That
was the biggest positive ever allowed on the show. Trying
to understand when you looked at me dead in the
eye and said, I like Attack of the Clones. Now,
I don't want to get to become a Star Wars podcast.
(01:27):
That movie's been out forever. But like you talk about
your like refined taste in film and television, you're like
the auto's are and blah blah blah, and then you
say junk like that to me, And that is why
I cannot take him seriously discuss.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I like Attack of the Clones.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, I do.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I think it has excellent action sequences in it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'll give you the Yoda fight. Is that that wasn't two.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
The Yoda fights. The Yoda fight's pretty great. I think
the assid sequence uh where Django feed is using those
like audio like sonic bombs. Oh my god. That that
the audio mix and that the surround sound mix, and
that is just it's chef's kiss.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Perfect story is bad.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
H The acting, I don't know, Okay, acting acting. I'm
gonna defend the acting.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Excuse me, I am going to evoke Roger Ebert's name
here when he said the chemistry between those two Padme
and Anakin, Malie Portman and what's his face, Hayden Christians
Christian apologies, he's a fine actor. But the chemistry between
those two actors, he said, they could not have had
less chemistry if they were different movies. I'll never forget
(02:47):
hearing that.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Okay, this is it was a trouthious the sand.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I don't like the feel of sand that movie. Come on,
that became a meme. But no, go ahead, tell us
how this is the best thing.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I can't defend the acting, but I will anyways, because
Hayden Christensen is actually a very talented actor. There's there's
a film that he did called Shattered Glass that he's
excellent in. He is in Sophia Cope was the Virgin
Suicides for a little bit. He's very good in that movie.
I think he is a very talented actor. Natalie Portman,
(03:19):
of course, extremely talented. She won an Oscar for Jackie,
one of my favorite movies of the last decade. She's
very very talented. I think this bad acting. It's it's
just how George Direct's actors and you either bad language,
bad dial bad dialogue. Yes, I'll get I'll give that
all to you. But I don't blame the actors. I
(03:41):
blame the.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Director in this case, that's I'm sick.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, the performances are bad, but I don't blame the actors.
I blame George.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
That movie was an experiment, was an experiment on how
much green screen we can do and how cool the
world is around it without thinking about what's happening. It's
like what's happened the last few years with LED walls,
where like it's cheaper to use the L walls and.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
All that stuff, right, don't get me sort on the story.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah, so filming it's the same thing. It's about
the technology and how easy it is or how interesting
it is, versus like what the actual story is or
story should be.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Well, that was his first one that he shot on digital.
Phantom Menace he shot on film. That one he shot
on digital. Do you think the green screen stuff was
more noticeable because it was shot digital?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It's more noticeable. Yeah, I mean it feels like a cartoon.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, but I think the Phantom Menace feels more like.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
A cartoon, and I think that's what he wanted.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yes, that is what he wants.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So it's just a mix of live action and cartoon
and that's what he got. But I think so much
time was spent on the world to say that the
world but you know, the look and feel, and not
enough attention to does the story make any sense? Is
these this dialogue makes sense? Nobody was like this is bad.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, I listen, these are things.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
This is bad.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I understand everything that you're saying.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Be proud of myself.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I've come to appreciate the prequels in a way that
that just says that George Lucas is an auteur and
this is what this is. These are the films that
he wanted to make. He wasn't He wasn't making them
for the fans, he was making them for himself. That
might sound narcissistic as an artist like I can't admire
(05:23):
that these are the you know, this is what he
wanted to make, and for better or for worse, these
are what they are. Can I defend Attack of the Clones?
I don't know. Probably not. I still find it to
be the most entertaining of the three. I mean, Revenge
of the Sith has some good moments in it, but
(05:44):
I don't know. I find Attack of the Clones warts
and all, and there are more warts than not. I
do find it to be an entertaining film.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I will say. I almost feel the same way with
Rise of Skywalker, which I know everyone hates. Yeah, and
everyone was so upset that somehow the Emperor came back
to life. I was happy he did, yeah, because I
remember growing up with Dark Empire. This this card comic
book series that brought the Emperor back as a clone.
It was a very good sort of sequel to return
(06:15):
the Jedi with the Emperor, and I wanted to see
that movie. So I was like, well, this is dumb,
Like how he just puts it in a crawl somehow
the Emperor has He didn't say that, but you know,
that's a line in there. But like I thought, there
were things in that that were good. Not everything, but
it could have been worse, and I liked the end.
I thought was fine.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I was very disappointed with Rise of Skywalker, and this
is coming from a JJ fan, and I was actually
disappointed with The Force Awakens as well.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
They're not good movies, I will say, but I mean,
for like popcorn summer movie kind of thing or Christmas
but whatever there was.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well, at least I find The Force Awakens watchable. I
don't find Rise of Skywalker watchable, and personally I was
I thought, and was left wanting way way more of
the Nights of Rene.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And we got nothing, nothing, Lucas to get away with that, right,
but like now, no, no, no, no, no, we can't just
have like some un name bounty hunter there that looks cool,
that's an action figure, that's right. We want the story now, right?
That is like that.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Was that was so built up, or at least I
thought it was built up that I thought it was
going to finally pay off in the third end. Like nothing,
and I was very, very disappointed in that.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
But let's just agree that we're not going to touch
the last Jedi with a ten foot poll because we
don't want the kind of hate mail. Now we're gonna
move on. We're gonna move on real quick.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Before I have things to say, but I won't say.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Let I don't say. Don't say are you excited for
the upcoming Star Trek series Starfleet Academy?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Uh No, because I'm more excited. I'm more excited for
Strange two Worlds season.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Worlds is done an amazing job. I think of recapturing
what the original series probably was like watching it.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
One of the best tea. I honestly think it's one
of the best shows on TV right now.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I love it Stranger Worlds. The crossover episode with Lower Decks,
and I think you should keep watching Lower Decks. So funny.
That crossover episode so good. Lower Decks was a great show.
I'm so bummed to keep going on. You know, I
would have loved I don't know. It ended nicely, did
have a nice little wrap up to it, so it's
a self contained story. But I love that crossover episode.
(08:26):
It was so fun.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, it was so good. It was really good.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I like most of the musical episode and all the music,
but I liked that episode.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yes, it was well done.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yes, like half the songs I thought were good.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
In the last episode of the prior season that we're
waiting for season three now, it was kind of scary
and hard and dark and it's just fun and it
just brought but not in like a It's still stayed
true to the original story.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
That's a romp. Yeah, and it's fun.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I mean Discovery I watched I had some things I liked,
some things I didn't like about that show. Recently, Section
thirty one came out here and we watched in that
movie came out. That's a pretty horrible straight to streaming movie.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, I heard it was pretty bad, and Michelle it.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Was it was too bad so much. And what I
heard too is that if that had done well, they
were thinking about it like a Star Trek picard, you know,
two hour movie, and they're not going to do that
because that did so poorly.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I think it did poorly because it was poorly made.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It was made very well, Like shout out to all
the actual people who made it. It's just the story
was a bad idea to begin with. But it's still that,
Like I want Star Trek legacy. I think what happened
Star Trek card season three set up such a great
show with Jerry Ryan and like the new New next duration,
you know, the Titan that turned to the Enterprise, and
(09:46):
the fans want it and they're like, oh, we hear this,
we hear this. But they're coming out with Starfleet Academy,
which you know, I have no idea what that's going
to mean. It's got some heavy hitters in it. It's
got Holly Hunter, it's got Paul Giamatti in it, I believe. Yes, Oh,
it's bringing back Robert Piccardo as the doctor, but it's
Scott Tilley from Discovery, So who knows what they're going
to go with, you know where with it. But it
(10:07):
takes place in the Discovery timeline in the future, and
I think there's still the desire for the Next Gen
Right timeline to continue right because it was so well received.
So we'll see how it goes in the coming.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Year or so.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Either way, to me, a number one Stranging Worlds, that's
the thing that's one of the TV shows I'm most
excited for this year out of everything. Wow, So I
love that show immensely.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I just missed the days where you got like twenty
episodes of the show, thirty episodes of a show, and
you know half of them were better. That's fine because
there was always a kernel of something like our past
clip show Shades of Great Next I already shid terrible episode,
but look at that, thirty years later we had a
shades of great deep no win scenario episode that we
can still talk about. Yeah, yeah, well I'm ready for
(10:57):
let's go find someone on the street to talk to
if we bring someone in. Yeah, so, sausage ads and whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
What's our ad? Now do we know? Did you listen
to this podcast?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
All I know is the whole food sausage ad. That's it.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
We're all right. We will be right back. Say something,
we'll be right back. Say it better. We'll be right
back now, Say it like you mean it.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
See you soon. I get the last word.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
It's time for the no win scenario. Fun fact. Dawn
prepares for every episode. Trevor prepares for the inevitable disappointment.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And we're back, Trevor. Look where we are. Yeah, breaking
news desks. Yeah, it's great. Is it great? I like
it a lot. No, don't do my toys. I like it.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
It's yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Now we got to do that all over. No, we're
leaving it, mister spock potato head, of course. Now you're
screwing up everything. My my, Why can't we leave that?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Why can't we leave that in there?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That is special? That is mister spot Okay, well enough
of you, Okay, enough of me. Look at this breaking news.
We needed a guest off the street, yes, and we
got one very excited. Did we talk to our guests?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Who is our guest?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Hi? Everybody. My name is Lysan Ho. I am a
TV editor currently working on Paradise season two for Hulu,
and I am a former student and intern of Don's.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
We weren't supposed to tell anyone that, and that I
had to pull a big favor. How does that make
you feel, Trevor, whysan?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Do you like Don? Did you like working for Don?
Talk about the answer. The correct answer is no.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
I think I had a love hate relationship with working.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Here we go, het, What do you mean?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Mostly love? But there were times like when I was
helping you paint your studio and swelter and heat all
day long.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
That was not fu Yeah, our old studio that for
We painted everything black that first day, Oh my god.
And well one wall was red. It's important to have
one red wall. Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Well we got paid in pizza.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Wait, when you're editing Paradise, do you think about that
day painting the walls?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
I've come far day.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Often it haunts.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Your journey, it haunts your nightmares.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
It clearly led to where you are today. Just all
from painting the walls. It all paid off completely well,
you brought up Paradise right away. Let's talk about Paradise.
So it's a political thriller on Hulu. The first season's
all out, is it this is a sci fi show?
Is it a sci fi show? Paradise?
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I think it is, and it is it. It's sort
of somewhere in the space between a sci fi show
and a more mainstream drama. It definitely has sci fi elements,
but it's not a straight like hardcore sci fi show.
It you know, maybe an entry point for people.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Well because it has like the end of the world
and underground bunker and things like that, but it's much
more like intense and thriller. Is there you know as
one of the editors, and we'll talk about how you
got to where you are, But like, is there like
an effort to sort of minimize the genre element to
of it. I don't know if that really comes into
play in terms of editing the show. But do you
ever feel like there is this you tone down, you
(14:28):
kind of clamp down on that and make it more
about the thriller aspects of it.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
I don't think so. I mean, I think we always
were in our show. We definitely put character and relationships
at the forefront, and that is more of the focus,
along with the mystery and the thriller than the sci fi,
which is sort of the backdrop. We also don't have
(14:54):
the budget to be a true sci fi show, so
we have to be selective and strategic with where we're
able to put our money to show the Dome of
the Sky or these sci fi elements. So yeah, we
have to be a little bit careful about that.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Does season two have more of a budget since season
one was a hit?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I can't say for sure. I'm not, you know, obviously
that's sort of above my pay grade. I don't think
it's a huge or yeah, I don't think it's a
particularly big increase if there is one.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Does it? But does it filter down like in terms
of like does that come down to you or you know,
before you go into the edit of a show, like
you've got the material that you've got right or or
is there some sort of discussion about, hey, be great
if we had X or Y at that point or
is that that point's too late?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Yeah, Well, before we start, they have a list of
certain VFX shots that they know we want to get,
and we have a supervisor VFX supervisor who's on set
for those things, and it's a big conversation all the
way through. But yes, as we're editing, will definitely come
(16:13):
to situations where we realize it would be really helpful
if we could have a big overhead view of the
city at this point, and we have to as editors,
you know, make our pitch for why it's necessary or
would be helpful, and then hopefully we get it. We
may not always get it, but we try.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You there are three editors on season one. How do
you keep the style consistent? Do you have a meeting
with the other two editors and have a discussion on style.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Well, the other two editors, Howard Leader and Julia Grove,
I've worked with for a really long time. We were
all also on This Is Us Together, which was show
run by the same showrunner of Paradise, Dan Fogelman. So
at this point we have a really just close relationship
(17:12):
where we know each other's style very well. We know
Dan's style very well, and we can kind of just
run with it and we know that it's going to gel.
We do have meetings every week with the whole post
team and the other editors, and I will have our
(17:34):
own little meetings sometimes to talk about our individual episodes.
We always watch each other's episodes and give each other
our thoughts and take inspiration from each other. So it's
a great team and a great relationship among all of us.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And it's sort of the three of you is sort
of interesting, right, So you worked on This is This
is US huge hit and to have all three of
you than you know, with Dan Folgoman go on to Paradise, like,
what's the story there because it happened around the time
of the strike, if I read correctly. Is that true?
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Yes, So he had started gathering writers and was kind
of trying to start up Paradise right before the strike happened,
and then it all had to be put on pause
until the strike was over. And it kind of worked
out really well for us editors and a lot of
(18:29):
the crew that when the strike finally ended, they were
ready to go and all of us were available to
hop on board. So yeah, that was great to all
be able to come back together. And I think Dan
said that something like eighty percent of the crew from
This is US is on Paradise, So it's a lot
(18:51):
of people coming back together.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Does it feel like it is strange to go from
This Is Us to Paradise, But like, does it feel
like it's just a continuation of that show in terms
of like the actual work as an editor, Like are
you doing the same sorts are you having the same
sorts of internal conversation than conversations with them that you
had during that show, or is there a little bit
of a different either process or mindset that goes into
to this one.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Yeah, I mean in terms of the environment, it feels
very similar, and it just kind of feels like we're
coming back home in a way. But obviously the show
is very different and there are different things that we're
having to think about, like keeping the mystery a secret,
(19:36):
and there's a lot more action and tension, well a
different kind of tension that we had and This Is
Us and really big propulsive score and having to keep
up that sort of thrill ride feeling through an episode
that is quite different, and so that's a felt.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Like a new challenge take us through like your day
and like at what point you come into an episode.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
We get the script for an episode probably a few
weeks to a month before it starts shooting, and at
that so by the time we get to the point
where we're actually getting footage for our episode, we probably
know what's happening three or four episodes ahead of where
(20:28):
that is. But they also give us a show bible
for the season, so that we have an idea of
the gist of what's going to happen if even if
we don't know exactly how it's all going to play out.
So we did always know that one oh seven was
going to be that big episode where you finally find
(20:49):
out how it all happened. And I think it's really
awesome that we waited that long to do that episode
good and I think that's a big part of what
makes it so impactful, because along the way, we've gotten
to know all of these characters and their backstories and
(21:14):
really care about them, so that when you see them
going through this horrific ordeal, you're that much more invested
in the stakes feel much higher.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
It's a side note, I think it's fair like James Martsen,
you don't necessarily love him at first or like him
at first, and then by then you're you're more investedive
who he was and what happened, So it's it's he's
a little cold and I don't even a bad way
in the beginning, you don't really know what's going on
with him. A side note, did you see Jerry Duty.
I loved him, No, I want to not so fire related,
so funny and she's so good interest that was one
(21:46):
of my favorite shows when it was on. So and
Sterling Kate Brown he's fine too.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
He's incredible. The two of them together, those are probably
my favorite scenes to cut because they're both just so
so talented, and they play off each other so well.
They have a lot of fun together.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Well, that brings me to a question. Obviously continuity is important,
but how do you cut for performance. You've got some
heavy hitters here, you got James, you got Sterling, you
have Julianne Nicholson, who's in my opinion, incredible. How do
you do that? Well?
Speaker 4 (22:23):
It's interesting, I mean, working with actors at this level
who are so good and rarely give a bad performance,
and we just have so many choices, and Julianne Nicholson
especially will give us a real range of deliveries onlines.
(22:46):
And so when I'm watching dailies, I love to just
sit and watch all of the dailies for the scene
and really just pay attention to what moves me the most,
and I'll kind of put markers on those things to
keep in mind for when I'm cutting, and I'll put
(23:09):
it together based on what I feel is the most engaging, impactful,
moving way. And then obviously when I get into working
with a director and with the producers, they may have
things in mind that are maybe bigger picture that I
(23:29):
don't know, or that they want to infuse into that character,
or a way that they want to kind of shape
the character going forward. So that's why it's amazing to
have different options and we can really fine tune, in, tweak,
and push things in whatever direction we want to go.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Is there always enough coverage or if you run into
a situation where you didn't have enough or you felt
like you didn't have enough.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
We've had really great directors and I I can't really
think of a scene where I felt like we didn't
have enough coverage. The place that we run into difficulty
is maybe when we get down the line if the
studio or network have a note about something that wasn't
(24:20):
originally thought about or intended, and then it's like, oh, well,
we don't really have that, and that's when you have
to get creative. And this is where I feel like
my training, you know, as a student filmmaker working on
these scrappy little projects where you have to just find
(24:40):
creative solutions to things has really come in handy because
you still have to do that even at this level.
It's like, well, what am I going to do here
to address this issue? And you just have to maybe
search other scenes for footage or look before and after
action was called and cut was called. One specific instance
(25:07):
I can think of with episode one oh six, which
was the one where Xavier and his team are taking
over the city spoiler alert, but the studio had a
note that even though he's taking over the city and
doing this big action thing, they also wanted us to
(25:29):
remember that he is a loving dad and could we
show a connection with him and his kids in some way,
like at a line of ADR or just I don't know.
They were like, we don't know how to do it,
but just figure out how to do it, And there
was really no elegant place to add a line of
(25:50):
ADR that would do that. But as I was watching
the episode, there was this one scene where Presley is
looking at the iPad secret iPad that has all the
government secrets on it and trying to open it. And
I had always thought that that was kind of unnecessary
and mostly for the audience's benefit, because we know that
(26:13):
she's had it for a long time already, so the
fact that she would be trying to open it at
that point wasn't really needed. So I had this idea
of maybe instead of looking at an iPad, we replace
it with a phone insert and show a text from
Xavior checking on her, And so that like killed two
(26:35):
birds with one stone, of clearing out something that didn't
feel totally natural and genuine for the character and addressing
the studio note. So those are the kinds of random
things where you have to like pull from wherever you
can think of ask other editors, hey, do you have
a shot of this in your episode that I can steal?
(26:57):
And we just make it work now.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Without getting you fired. Like when you get it when
a note comes to you like that, are you like,
are you kidding me? Or like do you get annoyed?
Or you're like, yeah, this was a good note. These
are all great notes. Let me figure out something creative.
I guess what's the percentage of good notes the bandnotes.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And when where in the process. Do the notes come in?
I mean, are you close to pitch your walk? And
that's when the notes come in, and you got to
kind of make difficult.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
The studio network notes do come in close to the end.
They're the last ones to see it. And Dan has
a really good relationship with our studio execs and they
trust him a lot, so they don't overload us with
a lot of notes. They will give us just the
ones that they really think are important. So I would
(27:50):
say a good percentage of them seem valid to me
and worth trying. I have done definitely found in my
career so far that even if a note seems stupid
to me, maybe at the time it's worth trying and
(28:12):
just seeing because sometimes it works, and a lot of
times things will work that you never expected to work.
Speak and they are able to give us a perspective,
an outside perspective from someone who's not as.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
In it as we are. Right, it's going to say,
speaking of your career, you know, we've been talking the
last few seasons here with professionals in the industry about
how they survive in their career, and so years and
years ago, right shows, there were many episodes in a
season and that was a ton of work for everyone involved.
(28:49):
Paradise is an example, right, it's eight episodes a season,
you do two, you split up with two other partners,
you know. You know, does that one show on a
you know platform like Hulu? Is that enough to have
a full career in terms of like supporting yourself? Are
you split among multiple other projects?
Speaker 4 (29:08):
You know?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
How is that handled? You know, it's not twenty two
or whatever episodes of a show like they used to do.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yeah, it is tough, and things have gotten much tougher
in the industry in the past five years. This is
Us was a totally different beast for me in terms
of lifestyle because I was cutting like six episodes a
season on that versus now just two and it lasted
(29:38):
much longer. So that was great for my run on
season one of Paradise. I was working for about five
months and it's most likely going to be the same
this year. And I would have loved to find another
show to jump onto in the meantime between seasons, but
(29:59):
that didn't happen. There's just really a lack of work
right now. I'm very lucky to have this one show,
so I just have to I do have to be
really careful with saving and I do make enough in
a five month season to survive, but ideally, and I'm
(30:23):
hoping that this year I might be able to get
one more thing this year.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You know, we talk a lot with everyone about how
they sort of keep their mental health together and what
they do. Editing by itself is a fairly correct me
if I'm wrong, is a fairly you know, solitary job
for most of the time, you know. So between that
and sort of the uncertainty between seasons and just in
general people looking for work, you know, So, how do
you how do you keep yourself sort of healthy mentally.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah, it's a really important question and something that I
think everyone in the industry is talking about more thankfully
and trying to figure out. I have found a lot
of comfort and solace in the community of editors. Friend.
I try to just check in and keep up with
(31:14):
friends who are going through the same thing. I'm actually
part of this amazing community of women editors that's on Slack.
Actually that started out with just a small group of
twenty female comedy editors that then it was actually start well,
(31:35):
one of the founding members was this the woman who
was my editing mentor Susan Vale, and so she expanded
it and opened it up to all female editors of
all genres, and that's been an amazing place where we
all can When it originally started, people were posting job
leads and helping each other get jobs. Now it's more
(31:58):
just supporting each other mentally and giving each other advice
about health, mental health, physical health, how we're all staying seene.
So that's been great. And I also do weekly therapy,
which I think is great for everyone. And I think
(32:21):
in terms of just the actual work, even if you're
lucky enough to be working all the time, that is
very mentally taxing because it's long hours often and you
can just really be all consumed by it if you
let it, which I did for a long time. And
(32:43):
now I'm trying to get myself slightly better work life
balance and carve out a little time for myself, like
in the morning before I start my day, to just
do something for myself. And that's been going well so far.
(33:04):
Hopefully keep it up for the rest of the season
as things get busier. And like exercise you know is essential.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Oh you hear that, Trevor, You should get up off
your couch once in a while. It was very hard
to get him here. I'd like to point out.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Don has a question that he's too embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
What is that ask? I got a long list of questions,
which one of my embarrassings.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
At the at the end of episode three, there's a
very steamy love sequence that takes place in a shower,
and you get notes on that.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
That's the question.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Don confided in me that he's watched that scene eighteen times,
and I don't blame him. He yes, he wants to know,
you know, what's it like to edit a love scene?
How difficult is it?
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And I got to say, that is your best question,
and I wish he was on this list of questions.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, it's your question. You asked me to ask it
because you're too embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I guess it's a good question. So what's that like?
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Yeah that I think that actually is the first love
scene that I've edited ever.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Really that was a network show.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
This was a little more.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
Yeah, I might be forgetting something, but uh, it was.
It's definitely not something I've done a lot of if
I have done it before, and the it was amazing.
Actors Sterling k. Brown and Sarah Shahi, and obviously they
(34:39):
are two extremely attractive people, so it makes it pretty
easy to make it look good. Our director shot a
ton that it was almost the whole day that they
spent a scene, and so there was a lot of
footage to go through, and for me as an editor,
(35:01):
I had to keep in mind, what is the point
of this scene. It's not really to be the steamiest
sex scene in the world. It's she's trying. She has
a goal here, which is to get him into the
shower to tell him a secret message. So as much
as there was amazing a lot of amazing footage to use,
(35:23):
I kind of had to condense it way down, make
sure that we were focusing on her checking him for
the wire and the mystery of it, leaning into the
mystery of it more than the sexiness of it. And
so I think when I got into the direct or
(35:44):
the producers cut with Dan, he was like, cut it
down even more, Like just get him in that shower,
get him sitting down, get the get the message out,
because that's that's really the point. And we do get
that one amazing wide shot of Sterling, which is awesome.
(36:05):
So we used the best I think the best parts
of it, but kept the story moving.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, Don loves that sequel. He really really really loves
that sequence a lot. So great job, great job. He
is very proud of you.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
It don't make this weird, man, You're making this more weird.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
You made it weird.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
For the record, we have not discussed the show because
I've been asking him for three months to watch the show.
And he caught up last night and he just walked
in the studio today, looked at the desk, looked at
all the work that like seven people put together for
this amazing environment, and he just shook his head and
sat there in silence. But what is the hardest type
of scene for you to edit? Is seen like that
(36:45):
as an action scene? Is it a heavy dialogue? What
do you find to be the most challenging and maybe
the most rewarding. See, that's a real question, he understands,
not that weird stuff that you just did.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
I think my strong suit has always been the dialogue scenes,
and those I have a very natural intuition for, and
I have I had a lot of practice with This
is Us So on Paradise, the most challenging has been
probably the big action sequences just because I haven't done
(37:17):
as much of that, and in episode six it's almost
one whole long action sequence the whole episode, and we
really wanted to feel that feeling of tension and amped
up excitement the whole time, which is hard to sustain
for that long. So my first cut was definitely too long,
(37:45):
and that was you know, it's partly the script needing
to just tighten up dialogue and things, but the way
that we kind of solved it was just cutting every
seen down to its essence and keeping everything moving just
at a breakneck pace. And also the music is so critical,
(38:10):
which I've learned for action sequences you need you want
that propulsive, driving energy, and in that episode we had
this huge, really intricate spore with tons of different instruments.
Our music editor told me that we actually maxed out
(38:32):
the number of tracks and pro tools because there were
so many different instrumental tracks. And once we had that
driving feeling for the whole episode, then it was like, Okay,
now it's almost too much. So we want to find
(38:53):
little moments to breathe and kind of vary the tension,
because what makes it interesting and exciting is having the
highs and the lows, so we really fine tuned that.
And one of the things that I think is really
(39:14):
interesting about the score in that episode is we've got
this loud, driving, propulsive score almost the whole way through,
and then at the end, when Xavier finally gets into
Sinatra's house and they're facing off, we come down to
this really really simple score of just it's just a
(39:36):
bell I think, repeating, and it's very subtle, and the
tension of that there is you can cut it with
a knife. It's like so intense because compared to what
we've been listening to the whole episode, it's just the
complete opposite.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I could be wrong. I'm not a professional editor like you,
but I've to me, I imagine that the hardest scenes
to edit would be dialogue sequences that are so heavy
on exposition, because the dialogue is kind of king in
(40:17):
that situation and it doesn't give you a lot of
room to move around.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Is that the case, Well, I think we like to
avoid exposition as much as possible, and so if we
have scenes that are very exposition heavy, we're usually trying
to extract as much of that as possible and show
(40:44):
rather than tell. Obviously, there are certain things that you
just need to say and get out there so the
audience knows. But one thing this is reminding me of
is we had a scene in one O three where
Sinatra is It's the one where she's trying to talk
(41:08):
Baines down, the vice president, and I think the studio
during the script stage had a note that they wanted
to humanize her more, which is something that a needle
we were trying to thread throughout the whole season with
her being the villain but also kind of understanding where
(41:31):
she's coming from and relating to her. And so the
writers had added sort of a monologue for her talking
about how sad she was about Cal's death, and then
in editing it it was just not very compelling. It
(41:52):
wasn't the most compelling part of the scene for sure,
and it felt like we could maybe lose it. So
we lost it. And then when we got to the
studio network, they were like, we want to feel more
human emotion from Sinatra, and they just were still feeling that.
So we went back through multiple episodes actually and tried
(42:17):
to find moments where we could do that for her character.
And in that scene, I think Dan had the idea
of maybe we just do an internal mind's eye flash
for Sinatra to something that she's thinking about thinking about
Cal And I ended up using a piece of the
(42:41):
scene from episode two where she's having that conversation with
him about her son who had passed away, And it
was really incredible when I put that in the scene.
Or so she's just sitting there thinking about Cal and
just seeing that one shot of him, and did so
(43:01):
much more for the scene than like a minute long
a logue talking about it.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
But are you basically you being an editor, so not
just you you when you do things like that, are
you really just patching script problems? You know? Is or
is this all the time?
Speaker 4 (43:24):
You know?
Speaker 2 (43:24):
This is part of the process for anyone or is
it really like, well, at some point, the writer, the showrunner,
someone should have seen this as a possible problem. There's
two pages of dialogue or something like that.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
I think performance and directing, I think they're all elements
of patching up script problems. Maybe well, I think we.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
I mean, we have amazing writers and we are lucky
to start with very strong scripts. Obviously, nothing is perfect
on the page, and you find things as you're editing
that maybe didn't come through reading it. But in terms
of those kinds of visual elements that we add in,
(44:08):
I mean, sometimes they are scripted and they're intended and
then and other times it's we wish we could enhance
this moment more, and then we're doing it afterwards.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Sure. Have you ever.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Put your foot down with Dan or the rest of
your post production team and had a battle that yeah,
we're you were willing to die on and just say no,
it has to be like this, and and what came
of it? Are you pretty flexible on everything?
Speaker 4 (44:42):
I think on the spectrum, I am pretty flexible. I
I know that I'm here to make the show that
Dan wants to make ultimately, and so it's definitely rare
that I would say no, it has to be that way.
(45:02):
What have you? But I on Paradise, No. There was
one thing on This is Us when I was working
with him on the penultimate episode of the series, which
had a lot of pressure on it, and we were
(45:24):
working really intensely on it, and he asked we were
trying to cut time, and he asked, well, can we
get rid of this particular beat? And I was just like, no,
I love that so much. It makes me cry every
time we cannot get rid of that, and he is
He is the kind of person who if you feel
(45:44):
that strongly about something and he's worked with us long enough,
he trusts our judgment and he hires us because he
trusts our judgment. He will usually, you know, be willing
to compromise on things like that. And in general, he
takes people's opinions. He's not my way or the highway
(46:07):
type of person. So he really likes to get a
lot of people's input and then make a decision. And
it's really the best of both worlds because he will
take other people's opinions, but once he kind of has
all the information, he's very decisive about what he wants
and he knows what he wants. So that's that's the
(46:31):
best thing to have in a showrunner.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
I think, speaking of what he wants, we only have
a few more minutes before you have to go back
to work. What you're working on season two? Can you
tell us anything?
Speaker 4 (46:45):
Probably not, I would be.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
A very I would think not.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
I can tell you that I'm very excited about it.
I have loved the scripts. It's I would say, it's
probably not what people are expecting.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Ooh nice. She'd work in marketing.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
I wanted to ask you just a quick question. Editing
tools are constantly evolving, especially with AI coming into play
in the last few years. How do you keep your
skills sharp?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Wait? Do you think that she's doing the generative extent
in Premiere? Like that's what you're is that your question?
Speaker 4 (47:32):
No? Yeah, it does change so fast. And now there's
like Da Vinci Resolve that's kind of on the rise
and which I haven't had any practice.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
With, but I do.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
What are you cutting with on the show?
Speaker 4 (47:49):
We cut with Avid on the show, and that's what
I've used for all my professional work, but for side projects,
I use Premiere, So that keeps me kind of current
on both of those at least, and I still I
still feel like AVIOD is far and away the most
used in a TV and film. So as long as
(48:11):
I'm sharp on that, I can find work. And as
far as AI and how AI is going to come
into all of this, who knows. It's definitely something that
I think is important for everyone in this industry to
start learning about because it's obviously going to work its
(48:35):
way in somehow, But at this point we don't really touch.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
It because you're not about your job.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
I'm not worried about my job in the near future.
I don't. I don't think it's to the point where
it can make the type of nuanced decisions that we're
having to make every day.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Agreed, at least for now.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I just have one final question. Is there a show
that you wished you worked, you loved so much that
you wish you had the opportunity to work on, or
one that's out there right now that you would want
to work on.
Speaker 4 (49:18):
I mean, I'm a big fan of Severance. I think
that show has been incredible, and they do a lot
of really interesting editing work with the way that they
go back and forth between inner and outer worlds. So
(49:40):
I mean that would be awesome. And it's kind of
funny that I say that, because in general I wouldn't
consider myself a sci fi person, but I am now
kind of working on a sci fi show, and I
would love to work on something like that. So pulling
me over to your side.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Well, actually, what a great transition to sort of my
multi part last question. You say you're not a sci
fi person, but you know, i'd liked to remind you. Sorry,
I got to fix that here. When you were in college,
you and Trevor both worked on something together. You were
a PA on the little Ascendance sci fi anthology I did.
(50:19):
And you know, Trevor, you know, tried to embarrass me
earlier with something. But what he confided in me is
his shame that you both, you as a you know,
a PA or intern when you were in college in
Trevor as an old man, worked on this miniseries or
not mini serious anthology film pathology series for me. And
you've had a wonderful career so far, and you're still young,
(50:40):
and look at him here doing nothing.
Speaker 4 (50:44):
On a hard hitting sci fi podcast.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
On a sci fi podcast. So you've always had a
little sci fi in you and Trevor has just done
nothing since then, So it's kind of embarrassing for him.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
But my question for you is is I'll give you
that one.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
What you know, let's end with like sort of what
what advice would you give yourself back when you were
in college? Right, you didn't go to a film school,
you know, what do you wish you had known or done?
What advice would you give other folks who are interested
in being an editor?
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Well, I think watch a lot of stuff, watch a
lot of movies and TV shows and really think about
what you like and why you like it, and write
down the types of things that you would love to
work on one day and look at it and think
about it and have that as your north star. The
(51:41):
thing that I probably wish I had done more is networking. Obviously,
in this industry, it's who you know, and even more
so now that there are less jobs to go around.
So however, you can do it. Like those shows that
(52:02):
you watch that you love, try to find those editors
on LinkedIn and reach out to them. They might answer
and be willing to talk to you, and so you
can do it even if you don't have a connection
to the industry. I didn't have a connection to the
industry other than my film professors from school. But there
(52:26):
are ways that you can make those inroads and when
people are willing to talk to you, try to maintain
those relationships. And that's something that had been told to me,
but I didn't fully grasp that you can't just talk
to someone once and expect that to be something that's
(52:47):
going to pay dividends. You have to keep up with
them and check in every once in a while, let
them know what you're doing. And there's obviously a fine
line between and bothering someone too much and just keeping up.
But do be persistent and try to maintain those relationships
(53:11):
with the people that you know in the industry.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
And you were you were when you were younger. You
were nice, you were hard working. You know, you found
your way through connections to your editing mentor who brought
you on ray to the team you are and you've
kept together as Yeah.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
Absolutely, you have to do your absolute best wherever you are,
even if it's a tiny indie web series, give one
hundred percent because you don't know what the people you're
working with will go on to do someday, or who
they may know. You never know where the job is
(53:47):
going to come from, So you just have to shine
wherever you are.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
You hear that, Trevor, shine, do your best? Is this
your best?
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Yeah? Right now it is?
Speaker 2 (54:02):
But I think so too well, li Son, Thank you
so much. We'll let you get to work. We really
appreciate you coming on. Thank you so so good to
see you again.
Speaker 4 (54:09):
Guys for having me. Is really fun seeing you.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
And now it's time for a no win scenario. Did
you know Don has a Masters in music Trevor has
a cat.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
And we're back.
Speaker 4 (54:24):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
Everyone, thanks again for getting this far in the episode.
It's always amazing that you get past all our wonderful
add breaks.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
I've been waving for the past few seconds.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
No waving. He doesn't understand that not everyone is watching this. So, Trevor,
you got anything to get off your chest? Ah. He's
still wearing it all season long. He's been wearing the
no Win Scenario official shirt typo and all.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
I love this shirt so much.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I'm gonna fix it. Okay, I will get you.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Don't fix it. Don't fix it. I don't. I'm serious.
I do not want you.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
No, it says these people don't know what it was
supposed to say in small print because no one else
has a podcast. But it was rush delivery to us
because we really tried to get it.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
No, you spelled it wrong when you sent it over
to them.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Well, yes, there was a typo. It's called a typo.
It was a eleven PM mistake. I don't know that
anyone would notice. So I'm going to fix it for you,
but I noticed right away you did.
Speaker 4 (55:19):
You did.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
But I will get you a brand new no wind
Snaarira shirt. No typos.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
No, I don't want a brand new one with no typos.
I want one more.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Why is that type type?
Speaker 1 (55:29):
Because I want to have a backup one in case
this one gets ruined in the wash.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
I want you wash your clothes. That's the first one.
I want, no wind scenario exclusive, Trevor will wash it.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah, I actually washed my clothes, Believe it or not.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
Wow, what is that steno?
Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yes, please give me one more.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
I but why do you like the typo?
Speaker 1 (55:50):
I love because it's so funny, it's so you, it's
so yes.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
So this is making fun of me.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Yeah, of course it's making fun of you.
Speaker 4 (55:59):
You.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
You put a lot into this podcast, you really do.
And I remember you telling me about this T shirt thing.
I wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. I did
not want to wear a T shirt. I no, no, no,
I didn't want anything to do with it. He presents
one episode, he presents it to me as a surprise.
(56:24):
I take it out of the box. I look at
it and I just see that typo right away, and
I've realized this.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Truly is to start our third season. It wasn't a
true gift.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
And I got to point out on the podcast on
the recording. I got to point out the typo and
it was just absolutely wonderful and I love it.
Speaker 2 (56:47):
I think that I think it's and you know what,
I can't believe to tell you this, but I haven't
told this to this point. We've actually had a lot
of emails to know when Scenario podcast dot com wanting
to buy these shirts off of us? Would you sell
your shirt?
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Would I sell?
Speaker 4 (57:05):
Would you sell it to.
Speaker 2 (57:05):
Our to our audience?
Speaker 1 (57:06):
B case Becase, Absolutely, you'd sell that shirt?
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Yes, yeah, but I don't can get another one. It's
got to be a limited.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
Edition, yes, yes, limited edition typo.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
Okay, so we'll get a started auction site or something
that sounds good. Kind of sounds illegal. Yeah, I don't
know why it feels illegal. I don't I don't like that.
I don't like that. I guess this should have belonged
in our Shades of Gray episode where I say take
off your shirt and give it to people. But thankfully
everyone has left the studio.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
We were all Aloneeah, Yeah, everybody's a band up completely
b case they were really bored. Be case they they
were really bored with the earlier recording.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
Well, Trevor, another.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Great episode, Another great episode.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Everyone feel free. No please, no, please, that's sprit please yeah,
please please subscribe.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, s, Breaker.
Speaker 2 (57:57):
Audible, Audible us an audible Google podcast. But I think
the iHeartRadio radio, all those things. Find us on Instagram,
TikTok YouTube.
Speaker 1 (58:07):
Listen to our podcast b Case. It's a really good
podcast in case.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
If you don't, we have to get real jobs. See
you next time, Go bye.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
In today's world, mental health is everyone's concern. If you
are someone you know is in crisis, please use these resources.
For US listeners, call one eight hundred nine five zero
six two sixty four or text helpline all one word
h E L P l I N E to six
(58:38):
two six four zero, or email helpline at nammy dot org.
That's n A m I dot org. For our international listeners,
please visit suicide stop dot com. That's s U I
c I D E S t O P dot com.
I haven't listened to anything you've said in the last
twenty seconds.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Damn it, Trevor. We had a shit.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Lying two friends who hate each other, rude talking science fiction.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It has become this cultural phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Along with some special guests.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I appreciate what Star Trek did to me. I would
love to have this book get banned. And that wasn't acting,
that wasn't real.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Do you know what Our YouTube channel is absolutely not
No Win Scenario with Trevor and Dawn. Okay, we're not
doing that.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Boom.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of No Stop
Waving Trevor stop it all season way wait waved. I
apologize to those people who are listening to us because
he just sits there and waves and waves and irritates
me once more. I'm gonna try this again. Hi everyone,
and welcome to another episode of No Scenario Podcast. Trevor
(00:53):
is doing hand puppets or something. I think he's lost
it here in the No Win Scenario Podcast studio. My
name is Don Checkter. This is Trevor Chamberlain, who is
clearly losing his mind.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, which is the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
The end of the day here, I just I couldn't
let another moment go by without trying to understand. That
was the biggest positive ever allowed on the show. Trying
to understand when you looked at me dead in the
eye and said, I like Attack of the Clones. Now,
I don't want to get to become a Star Wars podcast.
(01:27):
That movie's been out forever. But like you talk about
your like refined taste in film and television, you're like
the auto's are and blah blah blah, and then you
say junk like that to me, And that is why
I cannot take him seriously discuss.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I like Attack of the Clones.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, I do.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I think it has excellent action sequences in it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'll give you the Yoda fight. Is that that wasn't two.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
The Yoda fights. The Yoda fight's pretty great. I think
the assid sequence uh where Django feed is using those
like audio like sonic bombs. Oh my god. That that
the audio mix and that the surround sound mix, and
that is just it's chef's kiss.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Perfect story is bad.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
H The acting, I don't know, Okay, acting acting. I'm
gonna defend the acting.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Excuse me, I am going to evoke Roger Ebert's name
here when he said the chemistry between those two Padme
and Anakin, Malie Portman and what's his face, Hayden Christians
Christian apologies, he's a fine actor. But the chemistry between
those two actors, he said, they could not have had
less chemistry if they were different movies. I'll never forget
(02:47):
hearing that.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Okay, this is it was a trouthious the sand.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I don't like the feel of sand that movie. Come on,
that became a meme. But no, go ahead, tell us
how this is the best thing.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I can't defend the acting, but I will anyways, because
Hayden Christensen is actually a very talented actor. There's there's
a film that he did called Shattered Glass that he's
excellent in. He is in Sophia Cope was the Virgin
Suicides for a little bit. He's very good in that movie.
I think he is a very talented actor. Natalie Portman,
(03:19):
of course, extremely talented. She won an Oscar for Jackie,
one of my favorite movies of the last decade. She's
very very talented. I think this bad acting. It's it's
just how George Direct's actors and you either bad language,
bad dial bad dialogue. Yes, I'll get I'll give that
all to you. But I don't blame the actors. I
(03:41):
blame the.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Director in this case, that's I'm sick.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, the performances are bad, but I don't blame the actors.
I blame George.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
That movie was an experiment, was an experiment on how
much green screen we can do and how cool the
world is around it without thinking about what's happening. It's
like what's happened the last few years with LED walls,
where like it's cheaper to use the L walls and.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
All that stuff, right, don't get me sort on the story.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah, so filming it's the same thing. It's about
the technology and how easy it is or how interesting
it is, versus like what the actual story is or
story should be.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Well, that was his first one that he shot on digital.
Phantom Menace he shot on film. That one he shot
on digital. Do you think the green screen stuff was
more noticeable because it was shot digital?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It's more noticeable. Yeah, I mean it feels like a cartoon.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, but I think the Phantom Menace feels more like.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
A cartoon, and I think that's what he wanted.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yes, that is what he wants.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So it's just a mix of live action and cartoon
and that's what he got. But I think so much
time was spent on the world to say that the
world but you know, the look and feel, and not
enough attention to does the story make any sense? Is
these this dialogue makes sense? Nobody was like this is bad.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, I listen, these are things.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
This is bad.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I understand everything that you're saying.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Be proud of myself.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I've come to appreciate the prequels in a way that
that just says that George Lucas is an auteur and
this is what this is. These are the films that
he wanted to make. He wasn't He wasn't making them
for the fans, he was making them for himself. That
might sound narcissistic as an artist like I can't admire
(05:23):
that these are the you know, this is what he
wanted to make, and for better or for worse, these
are what they are. Can I defend Attack of the Clones?
I don't know. Probably not. I still find it to
be the most entertaining of the three. I mean, Revenge
of the Sith has some good moments in it, but
(05:44):
I don't know. I find Attack of the Clones warts
and all, and there are more warts than not. I
do find it to be an entertaining film.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I will say. I almost feel the same way with
Rise of Skywalker, which I know everyone hates. Yeah, and
everyone was so upset that somehow the Emperor came back
to life. I was happy he did, yeah, because I
remember growing up with Dark Empire. This this card comic
book series that brought the Emperor back as a clone.
It was a very good sort of sequel to return
(06:15):
the Jedi with the Emperor, and I wanted to see
that movie. So I was like, well, this is dumb,
Like how he just puts it in a crawl somehow
the Emperor has He didn't say that, but you know,
that's a line in there. But like I thought, there
were things in that that were good. Not everything, but
it could have been worse, and I liked the end.
I thought was fine.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I was very disappointed with Rise of Skywalker, and this
is coming from a JJ fan, and I was actually
disappointed with The Force Awakens as well.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
They're not good movies, I will say, but I mean,
for like popcorn summer movie kind of thing or Christmas
but whatever there was.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well, at least I find The Force Awakens watchable. I
don't find Rise of Skywalker watchable, and personally I was
I thought, and was left wanting way way more of
the Nights of Rene.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And we got nothing, nothing, Lucas to get away with that, right,
but like now, no, no, no, no, no, we can't just
have like some un name bounty hunter there that looks cool,
that's an action figure, that's right. We want the story now, right?
That is like that.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Was that was so built up, or at least I
thought it was built up that I thought it was
going to finally pay off in the third end. Like nothing,
and I was very, very disappointed in that.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
But let's just agree that we're not going to touch
the last Jedi with a ten foot poll because we
don't want the kind of hate mail. Now we're gonna
move on. We're gonna move on real quick.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Before I have things to say, but I won't say.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Let I don't say. Don't say are you excited for
the upcoming Star Trek series Starfleet Academy?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Uh No, because I'm more excited. I'm more excited for
Strange two Worlds season.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Worlds is done an amazing job. I think of recapturing
what the original series probably was like watching it.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
One of the best tea. I honestly think it's one
of the best shows on TV right now.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I love it Stranger Worlds. The crossover episode with Lower Decks,
and I think you should keep watching Lower Decks. So funny.
That crossover episode so good. Lower Decks was a great show.
I'm so bummed to keep going on. You know, I
would have loved I don't know. It ended nicely, did
have a nice little wrap up to it, so it's
a self contained story. But I love that crossover episode.
(08:26):
It was so fun.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, it was so good. It was really good.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I like most of the musical episode and all the music,
but I liked that episode.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yes, it was well done.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yes, like half the songs I thought were good.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
In the last episode of the prior season that we're
waiting for season three now, it was kind of scary
and hard and dark and it's just fun and it
just brought but not in like a It's still stayed
true to the original story.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
That's a romp. Yeah, and it's fun.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I mean Discovery I watched I had some things I liked,
some things I didn't like about that show. Recently, Section
thirty one came out here and we watched in that
movie came out. That's a pretty horrible straight to streaming movie.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, I heard it was pretty bad, and Michelle it.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Was it was too bad so much. And what I
heard too is that if that had done well, they
were thinking about it like a Star Trek picard, you know,
two hour movie, and they're not going to do that
because that did so poorly.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I think it did poorly because it was poorly made.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It was made very well, Like shout out to all
the actual people who made it. It's just the story
was a bad idea to begin with. But it's still that,
Like I want Star Trek legacy. I think what happened
Star Trek card season three set up such a great
show with Jerry Ryan and like the new New next duration,
you know, the Titan that turned to the Enterprise, and
(09:46):
the fans want it and they're like, oh, we hear this,
we hear this. But they're coming out with Starfleet Academy,
which you know, I have no idea what that's going
to mean. It's got some heavy hitters in it. It's
got Holly Hunter, it's got Paul Giamatti in it, I believe. Yes, Oh,
it's bringing back Robert Piccardo as the doctor, but it's
Scott Tilley from Discovery, So who knows what they're going
to go with, you know where with it. But it
(10:07):
takes place in the Discovery timeline in the future, and
I think there's still the desire for the Next Gen
Right timeline to continue right because it was so well received.
So we'll see how it goes in the coming.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Year or so.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Either way, to me, a number one Stranging Worlds, that's
the thing that's one of the TV shows I'm most
excited for this year out of everything. Wow, So I
love that show immensely.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I just missed the days where you got like twenty
episodes of the show, thirty episodes of a show, and
you know half of them were better. That's fine because
there was always a kernel of something like our past
clip show Shades of Great Next I already shid terrible episode,
but look at that, thirty years later we had a
shades of great deep no win scenario episode that we
can still talk about. Yeah, yeah, well I'm ready for
(10:57):
let's go find someone on the street to talk to
if we bring someone in. Yeah, so, sausage ads and whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
What's our ad? Now do we know? Did you listen
to this podcast?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
All I know is the whole food sausage ad. That's it.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
We're all right. We will be right back. Say something,
we'll be right back. Say it better. We'll be right
back now, Say it like you mean it.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
See you soon. I get the last word.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
It's time for the no win scenario. Fun fact. Dawn
prepares for every episode. Trevor prepares for the inevitable disappointment.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And we're back, Trevor. Look where we are. Yeah, breaking
news desks. Yeah, it's great. Is it great? I like
it a lot. No, don't do my toys. I like it.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
It's yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Now we got to do that all over. No, we're
leaving it, mister spock potato head, of course. Now you're
screwing up everything. My my, Why can't we leave that?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Why can't we leave that in there?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That is special? That is mister spot Okay, well enough
of you, Okay, enough of me. Look at this breaking news.
We needed a guest off the street, yes, and we
got one very excited. Did we talk to our guests?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Who is our guest?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Hi? Everybody. My name is Lysan Ho. I am a
TV editor currently working on Paradise season two for Hulu,
and I am a former student and intern of Don's.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
We weren't supposed to tell anyone that, and that I
had to pull a big favor. How does that make
you feel, Trevor, whysan?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Do you like Don? Did you like working for Don?
Talk about the answer. The correct answer is no.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
I think I had a love hate relationship with working.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Here we go, het, What do you mean?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Mostly love? But there were times like when I was
helping you paint your studio and swelter and heat all
day long.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
That was not fu Yeah, our old studio that for
We painted everything black that first day, Oh my god.
And well one wall was red. It's important to have
one red wall. Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Well we got paid in pizza.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Wait, when you're editing Paradise, do you think about that
day painting the walls?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
I've come far day.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Often it haunts.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Your journey, it haunts your nightmares.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
It clearly led to where you are today. Just all
from painting the walls. It all paid off completely well,
you brought up Paradise right away. Let's talk about Paradise.
So it's a political thriller on Hulu. The first season's
all out, is it this is a sci fi show?
Is it a sci fi show? Paradise?
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I think it is, and it is it. It's sort
of somewhere in the space between a sci fi show
and a more mainstream drama. It definitely has sci fi elements,
but it's not a straight like hardcore sci fi show.
It you know, maybe an entry point for people.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Well because it has like the end of the world
and underground bunker and things like that, but it's much
more like intense and thriller. Is there you know as
one of the editors, and we'll talk about how you
got to where you are, But like, is there like
an effort to sort of minimize the genre element to
of it. I don't know if that really comes into
play in terms of editing the show. But do you
ever feel like there is this you tone down, you
(14:28):
kind of clamp down on that and make it more
about the thriller aspects of it.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
I don't think so. I mean, I think we always
were in our show. We definitely put character and relationships
at the forefront, and that is more of the focus,
along with the mystery and the thriller than the sci fi,
which is sort of the backdrop. We also don't have
(14:54):
the budget to be a true sci fi show, so
we have to be selective and strategic with where we're
able to put our money to show the Dome of
the Sky or these sci fi elements. So yeah, we
have to be a little bit careful about that.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Does season two have more of a budget since season
one was a hit?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I can't say for sure. I'm not, you know, obviously
that's sort of above my pay grade. I don't think
it's a huge or yeah, I don't think it's a
particularly big increase if there is one.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Does it? But does it filter down like in terms
of like does that come down to you or you know,
before you go into the edit of a show, like
you've got the material that you've got right or or
is there some sort of discussion about, hey, be great
if we had X or Y at that point or
is that that point's too late?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Yeah, Well, before we start, they have a list of
certain VFX shots that they know we want to get,
and we have a supervisor VFX supervisor who's on set
for those things, and it's a big conversation all the
way through. But yes, as we're editing, will definitely come
(16:13):
to situations where we realize it would be really helpful
if we could have a big overhead view of the
city at this point, and we have to as editors,
you know, make our pitch for why it's necessary or
would be helpful, and then hopefully we get it. We
may not always get it, but we try.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You there are three editors on season one. How do
you keep the style consistent? Do you have a meeting
with the other two editors and have a discussion on style.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Well, the other two editors, Howard Leader and Julia Grove,
I've worked with for a really long time. We were
all also on This Is Us Together, which was show
run by the same showrunner of Paradise, Dan Fogelman. So
at this point we have a really just close relationship
(17:12):
where we know each other's style very well. We know
Dan's style very well, and we can kind of just
run with it and we know that it's going to gel.
We do have meetings every week with the whole post
team and the other editors, and I will have our
(17:34):
own little meetings sometimes to talk about our individual episodes.
We always watch each other's episodes and give each other
our thoughts and take inspiration from each other. So it's
a great team and a great relationship among all of us.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And it's sort of the three of you is sort
of interesting, right, So you worked on This is This
is US huge hit and to have all three of
you than you know, with Dan Folgoman go on to Paradise, like,
what's the story there because it happened around the time
of the strike, if I read correctly. Is that true?
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Yes, So he had started gathering writers and was kind
of trying to start up Paradise right before the strike happened,
and then it all had to be put on pause
until the strike was over. And it kind of worked
out really well for us editors and a lot of
(18:29):
the crew that when the strike finally ended, they were
ready to go and all of us were available to
hop on board. So yeah, that was great to all
be able to come back together. And I think Dan
said that something like eighty percent of the crew from
This is US is on Paradise, So it's a lot
(18:51):
of people coming back together.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Does it feel like it is strange to go from
This Is Us to Paradise, But like, does it feel
like it's just a continuation of that show in terms
of like the actual work as an editor, Like are
you doing the same sorts are you having the same
sorts of internal conversation than conversations with them that you
had during that show, or is there a little bit
of a different either process or mindset that goes into
to this one.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Yeah, I mean in terms of the environment, it feels
very similar, and it just kind of feels like we're
coming back home in a way. But obviously the show
is very different and there are different things that we're
having to think about, like keeping the mystery a secret,
(19:36):
and there's a lot more action and tension, well a
different kind of tension that we had and This Is
Us and really big propulsive score and having to keep
up that sort of thrill ride feeling through an episode
that is quite different, and so that's a felt.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Like a new challenge take us through like your day
and like at what point you come into an episode.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
We get the script for an episode probably a few
weeks to a month before it starts shooting, and at
that so by the time we get to the point
where we're actually getting footage for our episode, we probably
know what's happening three or four episodes ahead of where
(20:28):
that is. But they also give us a show bible
for the season, so that we have an idea of
the gist of what's going to happen if even if
we don't know exactly how it's all going to play out.
So we did always know that one oh seven was
going to be that big episode where you finally find
(20:49):
out how it all happened. And I think it's really
awesome that we waited that long to do that episode
good and I think that's a big part of what
makes it so impactful, because along the way, we've gotten
to know all of these characters and their backstories and
(21:14):
really care about them, so that when you see them
going through this horrific ordeal, you're that much more invested
in the stakes feel much higher.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
It's a side note, I think it's fair like James Martsen,
you don't necessarily love him at first or like him
at first, and then by then you're you're more investedive
who he was and what happened, So it's it's he's
a little cold and I don't even a bad way
in the beginning, you don't really know what's going on
with him. A side note, did you see Jerry Duty.
I loved him, No, I want to not so fire related,
so funny and she's so good interest that was one
(21:46):
of my favorite shows when it was on. So and
Sterling Kate Brown he's fine too.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
He's incredible. The two of them together, those are probably
my favorite scenes to cut because they're both just so
so talented, and they play off each other so well.
They have a lot of fun together.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Well, that brings me to a question. Obviously continuity is important,
but how do you cut for performance. You've got some
heavy hitters here, you got James, you got Sterling, you
have Julianne Nicholson, who's in my opinion, incredible. How do
you do that? Well?
Speaker 4 (22:23):
It's interesting, I mean, working with actors at this level
who are so good and rarely give a bad performance,
and we just have so many choices, and Julianne Nicholson
especially will give us a real range of deliveries onlines.
(22:46):
And so when I'm watching dailies, I love to just
sit and watch all of the dailies for the scene
and really just pay attention to what moves me the most,
and I'll kind of put markers on those things to
keep in mind for when I'm cutting, and I'll put
(23:09):
it together based on what I feel is the most engaging, impactful,
moving way. And then obviously when I get into working
with a director and with the producers, they may have
things in mind that are maybe bigger picture that I
(23:29):
don't know, or that they want to infuse into that character,
or a way that they want to kind of shape
the character going forward. So that's why it's amazing to
have different options and we can really fine tune, in, tweak,
and push things in whatever direction we want to go.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Is there always enough coverage or if you run into
a situation where you didn't have enough or you felt
like you didn't have enough.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
We've had really great directors and I I can't really
think of a scene where I felt like we didn't
have enough coverage. The place that we run into difficulty
is maybe when we get down the line if the
studio or network have a note about something that wasn't
(24:20):
originally thought about or intended, and then it's like, oh, well,
we don't really have that, and that's when you have
to get creative. And this is where I feel like
my training, you know, as a student filmmaker working on
these scrappy little projects where you have to just find
(24:40):
creative solutions to things has really come in handy because
you still have to do that even at this level.
It's like, well, what am I going to do here
to address this issue? And you just have to maybe
search other scenes for footage or look before and after
action was called and cut was called. One specific instance
(25:07):
I can think of with episode one oh six, which
was the one where Xavier and his team are taking
over the city spoiler alert, but the studio had a
note that even though he's taking over the city and
doing this big action thing, they also wanted us to
(25:29):
remember that he is a loving dad and could we
show a connection with him and his kids in some way,
like at a line of ADR or just I don't know.
They were like, we don't know how to do it,
but just figure out how to do it, And there
was really no elegant place to add a line of
(25:50):
ADR that would do that. But as I was watching
the episode, there was this one scene where Presley is
looking at the iPad secret iPad that has all the
government secrets on it and trying to open it. And
I had always thought that that was kind of unnecessary
and mostly for the audience's benefit, because we know that
(26:13):
she's had it for a long time already, so the
fact that she would be trying to open it at
that point wasn't really needed. So I had this idea
of maybe instead of looking at an iPad, we replace
it with a phone insert and show a text from
Xavior checking on her, And so that like killed two
(26:35):
birds with one stone, of clearing out something that didn't
feel totally natural and genuine for the character and addressing
the studio note. So those are the kinds of random
things where you have to like pull from wherever you
can think of ask other editors, hey, do you have
a shot of this in your episode that I can steal?
(26:57):
And we just make it work now.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Without getting you fired. Like when you get it when
a note comes to you like that, are you like,
are you kidding me? Or like do you get annoyed?
Or you're like, yeah, this was a good note. These
are all great notes. Let me figure out something creative.
I guess what's the percentage of good notes the bandnotes.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And when where in the process. Do the notes come in?
I mean, are you close to pitch your walk? And
that's when the notes come in, and you got to
kind of make difficult.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
The studio network notes do come in close to the end.
They're the last ones to see it. And Dan has
a really good relationship with our studio execs and they
trust him a lot, so they don't overload us with
a lot of notes. They will give us just the
ones that they really think are important. So I would
(27:50):
say a good percentage of them seem valid to me
and worth trying. I have done definitely found in my
career so far that even if a note seems stupid
to me, maybe at the time it's worth trying and
(28:12):
just seeing because sometimes it works, and a lot of
times things will work that you never expected to work.
Speak and they are able to give us a perspective,
an outside perspective from someone who's not as.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
In it as we are. Right, it's going to say,
speaking of your career, you know, we've been talking the
last few seasons here with professionals in the industry about
how they survive in their career, and so years and
years ago, right shows, there were many episodes in a
season and that was a ton of work for everyone involved.
(28:49):
Paradise is an example, right, it's eight episodes a season,
you do two, you split up with two other partners,
you know. You know, does that one show on a
you know platform like Hulu? Is that enough to have
a full career in terms of like supporting yourself? Are
you split among multiple other projects?
Speaker 4 (29:08):
You know?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
How is that handled? You know, it's not twenty two
or whatever episodes of a show like they used to do.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yeah, it is tough, and things have gotten much tougher
in the industry in the past five years. This is
Us was a totally different beast for me in terms
of lifestyle because I was cutting like six episodes a
season on that versus now just two and it lasted
(29:38):
much longer. So that was great for my run on
season one of Paradise. I was working for about five
months and it's most likely going to be the same
this year. And I would have loved to find another
show to jump onto in the meantime between seasons, but
(29:59):
that didn't happen. There's just really a lack of work
right now. I'm very lucky to have this one show,
so I just have to I do have to be
really careful with saving and I do make enough in
a five month season to survive, but ideally, and I'm
(30:23):
hoping that this year I might be able to get
one more thing this year.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You know, we talk a lot with everyone about how
they sort of keep their mental health together and what
they do. Editing by itself is a fairly correct me
if I'm wrong, is a fairly you know, solitary job
for most of the time, you know. So between that
and sort of the uncertainty between seasons and just in
general people looking for work, you know, So, how do
you how do you keep yourself sort of healthy mentally.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah, it's a really important question and something that I
think everyone in the industry is talking about more thankfully
and trying to figure out. I have found a lot
of comfort and solace in the community of editors. Friend.
I try to just check in and keep up with
(31:14):
friends who are going through the same thing. I'm actually
part of this amazing community of women editors that's on Slack.
Actually that started out with just a small group of
twenty female comedy editors that then it was actually start well,
(31:35):
one of the founding members was this the woman who
was my editing mentor Susan Vale, and so she expanded
it and opened it up to all female editors of
all genres, and that's been an amazing place where we
all can When it originally started, people were posting job
leads and helping each other get jobs. Now it's more
(31:58):
just supporting each other mentally and giving each other advice
about health, mental health, physical health, how we're all staying seene.
So that's been great. And I also do weekly therapy,
which I think is great for everyone. And I think
(32:21):
in terms of just the actual work, even if you're
lucky enough to be working all the time, that is
very mentally taxing because it's long hours often and you
can just really be all consumed by it if you
let it, which I did for a long time. And
(32:43):
now I'm trying to get myself slightly better work life
balance and carve out a little time for myself, like
in the morning before I start my day, to just
do something for myself. And that's been going well so far.
(33:04):
Hopefully keep it up for the rest of the season
as things get busier. And like exercise you know is essential.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Oh you hear that, Trevor, You should get up off
your couch once in a while. It was very hard
to get him here. I'd like to point out.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Don has a question that he's too embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
What is that ask? I got a long list of questions,
which one of my embarrassings.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
At the at the end of episode three, there's a
very steamy love sequence that takes place in a shower,
and you get notes on that.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
That's the question.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Don confided in me that he's watched that scene eighteen times,
and I don't blame him. He yes, he wants to know,
you know, what's it like to edit a love scene?
How difficult is it?
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And I got to say, that is your best question,
and I wish he was on this list of questions.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, it's your question. You asked me to ask it
because you're too embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I guess it's a good question. So what's that like?
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Yeah that I think that actually is the first love
scene that I've edited ever.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Really that was a network show.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
This was a little more.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
Yeah, I might be forgetting something, but uh, it was.
It's definitely not something I've done a lot of if
I have done it before, and the it was amazing.
Actors Sterling k. Brown and Sarah Shahi, and obviously they
(34:39):
are two extremely attractive people, so it makes it pretty
easy to make it look good. Our director shot a
ton that it was almost the whole day that they
spent a scene, and so there was a lot of
footage to go through, and for me as an editor,
(35:01):
I had to keep in mind, what is the point
of this scene. It's not really to be the steamiest
sex scene in the world. It's she's trying. She has
a goal here, which is to get him into the
shower to tell him a secret message. So as much
as there was amazing a lot of amazing footage to use,
(35:23):
I kind of had to condense it way down, make
sure that we were focusing on her checking him for
the wire and the mystery of it, leaning into the
mystery of it more than the sexiness of it. And
so I think when I got into the direct or
(35:44):
the producers cut with Dan, he was like, cut it
down even more, Like just get him in that shower,
get him sitting down, get the get the message out,
because that's that's really the point. And we do get
that one amazing wide shot of Sterling, which is awesome.
(36:05):
So we used the best I think the best parts
of it, but kept the story moving.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, Don loves that sequel. He really really really loves
that sequence a lot. So great job, great job. He
is very proud of you.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
It don't make this weird, man, You're making this more weird.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
You made it weird.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
For the record, we have not discussed the show because
I've been asking him for three months to watch the show.
And he caught up last night and he just walked
in the studio today, looked at the desk, looked at
all the work that like seven people put together for
this amazing environment, and he just shook his head and
sat there in silence. But what is the hardest type
of scene for you to edit? Is seen like that
(36:45):
as an action scene? Is it a heavy dialogue? What
do you find to be the most challenging and maybe
the most rewarding. See, that's a real question, he understands,
not that weird stuff that you just did.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
I think my strong suit has always been the dialogue scenes,
and those I have a very natural intuition for, and
I have I had a lot of practice with This
is Us So on Paradise, the most challenging has been
probably the big action sequences just because I haven't done
(37:17):
as much of that, and in episode six it's almost
one whole long action sequence the whole episode, and we
really wanted to feel that feeling of tension and amped
up excitement the whole time, which is hard to sustain
for that long. So my first cut was definitely too long,
(37:45):
and that was you know, it's partly the script needing
to just tighten up dialogue and things, but the way
that we kind of solved it was just cutting every
seen down to its essence and keeping everything moving just
at a breakneck pace. And also the music is so critical,
(38:10):
which I've learned for action sequences you need you want
that propulsive, driving energy, and in that episode we had
this huge, really intricate spore with tons of different instruments.
Our music editor told me that we actually maxed out
(38:32):
the number of tracks and pro tools because there were
so many different instrumental tracks. And once we had that
driving feeling for the whole episode, then it was like, Okay,
now it's almost too much. So we want to find
(38:53):
little moments to breathe and kind of vary the tension,
because what makes it interesting and exciting is having the
highs and the lows, so we really fine tuned that.
And one of the things that I think is really
(39:14):
interesting about the score in that episode is we've got
this loud, driving, propulsive score almost the whole way through,
and then at the end, when Xavier finally gets into
Sinatra's house and they're facing off, we come down to
this really really simple score of just it's just a
(39:36):
bell I think, repeating, and it's very subtle, and the
tension of that there is you can cut it with
a knife. It's like so intense because compared to what
we've been listening to the whole episode, it's just the
complete opposite.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I could be wrong. I'm not a professional editor like you,
but I've to me, I imagine that the hardest scenes
to edit would be dialogue sequences that are so heavy
on exposition, because the dialogue is kind of king in
(40:17):
that situation and it doesn't give you a lot of
room to move around.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Is that the case, Well, I think we like to
avoid exposition as much as possible, and so if we
have scenes that are very exposition heavy, we're usually trying
to extract as much of that as possible and show
(40:44):
rather than tell. Obviously, there are certain things that you
just need to say and get out there so the
audience knows. But one thing this is reminding me of
is we had a scene in one O three where
Sinatra is It's the one where she's trying to talk
(41:08):
Baines down, the vice president, and I think the studio
during the script stage had a note that they wanted
to humanize her more, which is something that a needle
we were trying to thread throughout the whole season with
her being the villain but also kind of understanding where
(41:31):
she's coming from and relating to her. And so the
writers had added sort of a monologue for her talking
about how sad she was about Cal's death, and then
in editing it it was just not very compelling. It
(41:52):
wasn't the most compelling part of the scene for sure,
and it felt like we could maybe lose it. So
we lost it. And then when we got to the
studio network, they were like, we want to feel more
human emotion from Sinatra, and they just were still feeling that.
So we went back through multiple episodes actually and tried
(42:17):
to find moments where we could do that for her character.
And in that scene, I think Dan had the idea
of maybe we just do an internal mind's eye flash
for Sinatra to something that she's thinking about thinking about
Cal And I ended up using a piece of the
(42:41):
scene from episode two where she's having that conversation with
him about her son who had passed away, And it
was really incredible when I put that in the scene.
Or so she's just sitting there thinking about Cal and
just seeing that one shot of him, and did so
(43:01):
much more for the scene than like a minute long
a logue talking about it.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
But are you basically you being an editor, so not
just you you when you do things like that, are
you really just patching script problems? You know? Is or
is this all the time?
Speaker 4 (43:24):
You know?
Speaker 2 (43:24):
This is part of the process for anyone or is
it really like, well, at some point, the writer, the showrunner,
someone should have seen this as a possible problem. There's
two pages of dialogue or something like that.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
I think performance and directing, I think they're all elements
of patching up script problems. Maybe well, I think we.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
I mean, we have amazing writers and we are lucky
to start with very strong scripts. Obviously, nothing is perfect
on the page, and you find things as you're editing
that maybe didn't come through reading it. But in terms
of those kinds of visual elements that we add in,
(44:08):
I mean, sometimes they are scripted and they're intended and
then and other times it's we wish we could enhance
this moment more, and then we're doing it afterwards.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Sure. Have you ever.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Put your foot down with Dan or the rest of
your post production team and had a battle that yeah,
we're you were willing to die on and just say no,
it has to be like this, and and what came
of it? Are you pretty flexible on everything?
Speaker 4 (44:42):
I think on the spectrum, I am pretty flexible. I
I know that I'm here to make the show that
Dan wants to make ultimately, and so it's definitely rare
that I would say no, it has to be that way.
(45:02):
What have you? But I on Paradise, No. There was
one thing on This is Us when I was working
with him on the penultimate episode of the series, which
had a lot of pressure on it, and we were
(45:24):
working really intensely on it, and he asked we were
trying to cut time, and he asked, well, can we
get rid of this particular beat? And I was just like, no,
I love that so much. It makes me cry every
time we cannot get rid of that, and he is
He is the kind of person who if you feel
(45:44):
that strongly about something and he's worked with us long enough,
he trusts our judgment and he hires us because he
trusts our judgment. He will usually, you know, be willing
to compromise on things like that. And in general, he
takes people's opinions. He's not my way or the highway
(46:07):
type of person. So he really likes to get a
lot of people's input and then make a decision. And
it's really the best of both worlds because he will
take other people's opinions, but once he kind of has
all the information, he's very decisive about what he wants
and he knows what he wants. So that's that's the
(46:31):
best thing to have in a showrunner.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
I think, speaking of what he wants, we only have
a few more minutes before you have to go back
to work. What you're working on season two? Can you
tell us anything?
Speaker 4 (46:45):
Probably not, I would be.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
A very I would think not.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
I can tell you that I'm very excited about it.
I have loved the scripts. It's I would say, it's
probably not what people are expecting.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Ooh nice. She'd work in marketing.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
I wanted to ask you just a quick question. Editing
tools are constantly evolving, especially with AI coming into play
in the last few years. How do you keep your
skills sharp?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Wait? Do you think that she's doing the generative extent
in Premiere? Like that's what you're is that your question?
Speaker 4 (47:32):
No? Yeah, it does change so fast. And now there's
like Da Vinci Resolve that's kind of on the rise
and which I haven't had any practice.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
With, but I do.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
What are you cutting with on the show?
Speaker 4 (47:49):
We cut with Avid on the show, and that's what
I've used for all my professional work, but for side projects,
I use Premiere, So that keeps me kind of current
on both of those at least, and I still I
still feel like AVIOD is far and away the most
used in a TV and film. So as long as
(48:11):
I'm sharp on that, I can find work. And as
far as AI and how AI is going to come
into all of this, who knows. It's definitely something that
I think is important for everyone in this industry to
start learning about because it's obviously going to work its
(48:35):
way in somehow, But at this point we don't really touch.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
It because you're not about your job.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
I'm not worried about my job in the near future.
I don't. I don't think it's to the point where
it can make the type of nuanced decisions that we're
having to make every day.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Agreed, at least for now.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I just have one final question. Is there a show
that you wished you worked, you loved so much that
you wish you had the opportunity to work on, or
one that's out there right now that you would want
to work on.
Speaker 4 (49:18):
I mean, I'm a big fan of Severance. I think
that show has been incredible, and they do a lot
of really interesting editing work with the way that they
go back and forth between inner and outer worlds. So
(49:40):
I mean that would be awesome. And it's kind of
funny that I say that, because in general I wouldn't
consider myself a sci fi person, but I am now
kind of working on a sci fi show, and I
would love to work on something like that. So pulling
me over to your side.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Well, actually, what a great transition to sort of my
multi part last question. You say you're not a sci
fi person, but you know, i'd liked to remind you. Sorry,
I got to fix that here. When you were in college,
you and Trevor both worked on something together. You were
a PA on the little Ascendance sci fi anthology I did.
(50:19):
And you know, Trevor, you know, tried to embarrass me
earlier with something. But what he confided in me is
his shame that you both, you as a you know,
a PA or intern when you were in college in
Trevor as an old man, worked on this miniseries or
not mini serious anthology film pathology series for me. And
you've had a wonderful career so far, and you're still young,
(50:40):
and look at him here doing nothing.
Speaker 4 (50:44):
On a hard hitting sci fi podcast.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
On a sci fi podcast. So you've always had a
little sci fi in you and Trevor has just done
nothing since then, So it's kind of embarrassing for him.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
But my question for you is is I'll give you
that one.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
What you know, let's end with like sort of what
what advice would you give yourself back when you were
in college? Right, you didn't go to a film school,
you know, what do you wish you had known or done?
What advice would you give other folks who are interested
in being an editor?
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Well, I think watch a lot of stuff, watch a
lot of movies and TV shows and really think about
what you like and why you like it, and write
down the types of things that you would love to
work on one day and look at it and think
about it and have that as your north star. The
(51:41):
thing that I probably wish I had done more is networking. Obviously,
in this industry, it's who you know, and even more
so now that there are less jobs to go around.
So however, you can do it. Like those shows that
(52:02):
you watch that you love, try to find those editors
on LinkedIn and reach out to them. They might answer
and be willing to talk to you, and so you
can do it even if you don't have a connection
to the industry. I didn't have a connection to the
industry other than my film professors from school. But there
(52:26):
are ways that you can make those inroads and when
people are willing to talk to you, try to maintain
those relationships. And that's something that had been told to me,
but I didn't fully grasp that you can't just talk
to someone once and expect that to be something that's
(52:47):
going to pay dividends. You have to keep up with
them and check in every once in a while, let
them know what you're doing. And there's obviously a fine
line between and bothering someone too much and just keeping up.
But do be persistent and try to maintain those relationships
(53:11):
with the people that you know in the industry.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
And you were you were when you were younger. You
were nice, you were hard working. You know, you found
your way through connections to your editing mentor who brought
you on ray to the team you are and you've
kept together as Yeah.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
Absolutely, you have to do your absolute best wherever you are,
even if it's a tiny indie web series, give one
hundred percent because you don't know what the people you're
working with will go on to do someday, or who
they may know. You never know where the job is
(53:47):
going to come from, So you just have to shine
wherever you are.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
You hear that, Trevor, shine, do your best? Is this
your best?
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Yeah? Right now it is?
Speaker 2 (54:02):
But I think so too well, li Son, Thank you
so much. We'll let you get to work. We really
appreciate you coming on. Thank you so so good to
see you again.
Speaker 4 (54:09):
Guys for having me. Is really fun seeing you.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
And now it's time for a no win scenario. Did
you know Don has a Masters in music Trevor has
a cat.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
And we're back.
Speaker 4 (54:24):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
Everyone, thanks again for getting this far in the episode.
It's always amazing that you get past all our wonderful
add breaks.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
I've been waving for the past few seconds.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
No waving. He doesn't understand that not everyone is watching this. So, Trevor,
you got anything to get off your chest? Ah. He's
still wearing it all season long. He's been wearing the
no Win Scenario official shirt typo and all.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
I love this shirt so much.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I'm gonna fix it. Okay, I will get you.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Don't fix it. Don't fix it. I don't. I'm serious.
I do not want you.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
No, it says these people don't know what it was
supposed to say in small print because no one else
has a podcast. But it was rush delivery to us
because we really tried to get it.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
No, you spelled it wrong when you sent it over
to them.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Well, yes, there was a typo. It's called a typo.
It was a eleven PM mistake. I don't know that
anyone would notice. So I'm going to fix it for you,
but I noticed right away you did.
Speaker 4 (55:19):
You did.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
But I will get you a brand new no wind
Snaarira shirt. No typos.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
No, I don't want a brand new one with no typos.
I want one more.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Why is that type type?
Speaker 1 (55:29):
Because I want to have a backup one in case
this one gets ruined in the wash.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
I want you wash your clothes. That's the first one.
I want, no wind scenario exclusive, Trevor will wash it.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah, I actually washed my clothes, Believe it or not.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
Wow, what is that steno?
Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yes, please give me one more.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
I but why do you like the typo?
Speaker 1 (55:50):
I love because it's so funny, it's so you, it's
so yes.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
So this is making fun of me.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Yeah, of course it's making fun of you.
Speaker 4 (55:59):
You.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
You put a lot into this podcast, you really do.
And I remember you telling me about this T shirt thing.
I wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. I did
not want to wear a T shirt. I no, no, no,
I didn't want anything to do with it. He presents
one episode, he presents it to me as a surprise.
(56:24):
I take it out of the box. I look at
it and I just see that typo right away, and
I've realized this.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Truly is to start our third season. It wasn't a
true gift.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
And I got to point out on the podcast on
the recording. I got to point out the typo and
it was just absolutely wonderful and I love it.
Speaker 2 (56:47):
I think that I think it's and you know what,
I can't believe to tell you this, but I haven't
told this to this point. We've actually had a lot
of emails to know when Scenario podcast dot com wanting
to buy these shirts off of us? Would you sell
your shirt?
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Would I sell?
Speaker 4 (57:05):
Would you sell it to.
Speaker 2 (57:05):
Our to our audience?
Speaker 1 (57:06):
B case Becase, Absolutely, you'd sell that shirt?
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Yes, yeah, but I don't can get another one. It's
got to be a limited.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
Edition, yes, yes, limited edition typo.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
Okay, so we'll get a started auction site or something
that sounds good. Kind of sounds illegal. Yeah, I don't
know why it feels illegal. I don't I don't like that.
I don't like that. I guess this should have belonged
in our Shades of Gray episode where I say take
off your shirt and give it to people. But thankfully
everyone has left the studio.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
We were all Aloneeah, Yeah, everybody's a band up completely
b case they were really bored. Be case they they
were really bored with the earlier recording.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
Well, Trevor, another.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Great episode, Another great episode.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Everyone feel free. No please, no, please, that's sprit please yeah,
please please subscribe.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, s, Breaker.
Speaker 2 (57:57):
Audible, Audible us an audible Google podcast. But I think
the iHeartRadio radio, all those things. Find us on Instagram,
TikTok YouTube.
Speaker 1 (58:07):
Listen to our podcast b Case. It's a really good
podcast in case.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
If you don't, we have to get real jobs. See
you next time, Go bye.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
In today's world, mental health is everyone's concern. If you
are someone you know is in crisis, please use these resources.
For US listeners, call one eight hundred nine five zero
six two sixty four or text helpline all one word
h E L P l I N E to six
(58:38):
two six four zero, or email helpline at nammy dot org.
That's n A m I dot org. For our international listeners,
please visit suicide stop dot com. That's s U I
c I D E S t O P dot com.
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