Noise Junkies - Bowie - Noise Junkies

Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
We're you. I have often wonderedif if actually that being an artist in
any way any nature. I thinkthere's a I think it's a looney kind
of thing to want to do.I think the saner and rational appranch to

(00:26):
life is to survive steadfastly and createa protective home, and create a warm,
loving environment for one's family and getfood for them. That's about it.
That's actually. Anything else is extraor culture is extra, and it's
a sign of the irrational part ofman. I think we should just be

(00:46):
content with picking nuts, not mine. Welcome to noise, junkies. I'm
father alone with me here in theunderground. She's a future legend. She's
afraid of Americans. We call herladies Stardust. The rest of you call
her Heather Drain. Oh my god, I feel like I should be like

(01:06):
paying you for that intro. Thatis my favorite intro I've ever received,
like ever, Thank you my pleasure. And speaking of Americans, we have
a young American beaming in from atopic glass spider. That's right, he's
been dancing out in space. Godknows he's good. When they say bring
me the disco king, they're talkingabout mister HP as long as I'm not

(01:27):
a rock and roll suicide just yet. But I do appreciate the intro.
Thank you very much. Follow along. It's great to be here tonight.
If I haven't already, zid youstart us to the topic. For you,
we are talking about mister David Bowie. Now we're under no illusions that
that particular human can be summed upin any meaningful way in a couple of

(01:47):
hours, So instead we'll be takinga look at three shades of Bowie,
three topics and discussing those, andhonestly, even those would be given short
shrift, such is the life andthe work and everything, mister Jones.
But Bowie can hang out with Thursday'sChild for a few minutes because we have
a way around here on satellite NoiseJunkie. First order of business, HP

(02:10):
Tumbled and twirlss with what's been cruisingyour auditory canals of late? You're on
fire tonight, father alone. Ilove it. Lately I've been Normally,
I bring up an album that I'velistened to and I go through the album.
But in this case, it's onesong that I've had almost on repeat
pretty much every day, and totell the story, I went a few

(02:32):
weeks ago. I saw Billy Joel, went to see Billy Joel live and
Joe the Piano Man himself. NowI'm fine, Billy Joe's fine. I
know his music. Who doesn't.But it turns out it was a double
bill. It was co headliners.He was co headlining with Stevie Nicks.

(02:53):
Now again, I'm a fan ofFleetwood Mac. I've never really sought out
anything any shows, or I've neverseen Steven live, But what have you?
What are you gonna do? Itsounded like a good time, So
I went and Stevie opened, andit was a rainy, rainy night,
and the weather was really bad.It wasn't pouring, but it was this
driving, sort of spitting rain throughthe whole thing. It dampened everybody's spirits.

(03:16):
So we're sitting there waiting and allof a sudden, Stevie comes out
and she kicked off with what Ifound out later was an amazingly thematic song
for the evening. She came outand opened with a song called Outside the
Rain, which is off of hereighty one solo debut, bella Dog.

(03:53):
I've seen concert footage of Stevie Xand Fleetwood mac and what have you and
her videos and MTV. But II tell you that she was absolutely transfixing,
even at seventy five years old.She had presence that I found utterly
captivating. And she doesn't move withthe same sort of fervor as she might

(04:13):
have when she was when she wasyounger, but she was fantastic. She
conveyed passion through her performance. RainSoaked though it may have been, I
couldn't even properly make out the lyricsof the song, and yet I knew
what she was singing about. SoI made a mental note while I'm watching
the show to go home afterwards andcheck out look up on setlist FM.
What was that song? So Ilooked it up. Side note. By

(04:35):
the way, the music geek inme was super excited to see on the
stage left Watti walk Tell playing guitar. Do you guys know who Watti walk
Tell is? By any chance,I know who Waddy from the exploit it
is? No, I don't thinkWay wants he was a two big criminal
in Texas. No, this isnot This is neither of those. Way

(04:55):
Doy walk Tell is a legend inthe world of studio musicians. He just
list of credits would be would wecould have a whole show devoted to him,
But among other things, he cowrote, co produced, played guitar
on Warren Zevon's Werewolves of London,which we brought up in the last episode,
played all over Brian Ferry's album TheBride Strip there. He was a
long time touring guitarist for Linda Ronstadtduring her seventies heyday, and he could

(05:20):
be seen during Ronstadt's concert footage inthe movie Flu. He has too many
credits to discuss in one sitting.But as for Nicks, he not only
featured prominently on Belladonna and other albums. It's his guitar chug that you hear

(05:40):
that opens up the song Edge ofseventeen. That's him. But he's been
touring with her since the beginning andhe's basically her best friend anyway, So
that was cool for me to see. Maybe I was the only person in
the whole stadium who knew who thisguy was, but I was freaking out

(06:00):
anyway. The song. The lyricsof the song touch on themes that were
already the stock in trade for herby that point. She talks about loneliness,
heartache, dreams, and breakups.But it's not just the words,
it's how she sings them. Andthat's what I found so beguiling that evening,
and that's what I find so beguilingabout that song, and I have

(06:21):
not been able to get it outof my mind since then. My face.

(06:46):
But yeah, the song outside theRain fantastic. I really wasn't that
into Billy Joel. After the fact, I was like, well, this
feels like the show to me.She performed. It was a two and
a half hour show before Billy Joeleven came on. She did a full
set. It was incredible. Imean I would just leave after that.
It was I don't need a NewYork Saturday. Where the hell that ship

(07:11):
is? No, he was good, he and he was pretty angry about
the rain. I have to sayhe swore a lot at the rain,
kind of old man yells at cloud. That's what he did. Was he
like you motherfucker? Yes? Atone point it was great. At one
point the saxophone the saxophonists came outand did his solo and the camera is
on him and as he walked away, I could very clearly see him say

(07:35):
the words motherfucking rain, motherfucking rainto someone over his shoulder. It was
great. Stop stop. I fixturehim sounding like do you guys remember the
Red tapes, like oh yeah,yeah yeah. I picture him like a

(08:09):
non racist version of Red where hewas like you cocksucker, right, he
was. He was good at thebeginning. Stevie did stop dragging my heart
around and he came out and didthe Tom Petty part, which I thought
was great. He did a reallygood job. But Heather, get out
of that quicksand and tell me andHP and the people out there what you're

(08:30):
indulging in of late that makes youthink, fuck yeah, man art.
It's a song I returned to alot, actually, and I absolutely adore
it. And it's called the LastSong by a French post punk band called
Tristome twenty one. They formed innineteen eighty one by a pair of brothers,
Felipe and Hove Lampre and this songoriginally released nineteen eighty six off of

(08:54):
their album Chapter four. This songadvand they lot of times get called or

(09:28):
kind of adjacent at the very leasttowards eighties goth. I think they're more
kind of the post punk, likeyou could be goth and like them but
I wouldn't necessarily consider them like diedin the world gothic. They're called they're
now called in their Wikipedia entry coldwave, which basically gothic. The gothic
genre now has like all sorts ofother ways to describe it. But this

(09:48):
song is dreamy, it's melancholy.I never ever get tired of it.
It just it's it's got like thissort of sense of heartburn or heartborn longing,
and it's just sort of like youfeel like you're drifting into something but
you're not quite sure what. There'svery much being pulled to, like a

(10:09):
flame behind missed element to it.It's helpful, but there's a little bit
of sadness and weariness too. Ijust I think it's a beautiful piece of
music. Also, on a sidenote, this song as well as there's
a fan made video on YouTube wheresomebody has taken some footage of a eighties
club that's got like the most amazingmix of like there's goth kids, there's

(10:31):
punk kids, there's a few weirdfrat types mixed in, there's some bus
boys. Like it's like the mosteclectic eighties mix of like of cultures.
And they set it to this song, and I just the mix is so
perfect because there's a guy in thein the video that has green hair,
that has this great kind of rabbityenergy, and it ended up inspiring.

(10:54):
I wrote a short story inspired bythe song and that video called bad Night
with Acid Jimmy, and it gotpublished earlier this year in a a little
print journal called The Salt. Soyeah, dreams can come true. It
can happen to you when you listento Trice on Me twenty one. What

(11:33):
about you, Father Malone? Ibet you're great. I bet you are
our wrong contour? What have youbeen digging? You guys only picked songs?
I picked an album Jesus Christ.But there's no rules banning. Come
on, well, my choice dumbtailswith the greater topic. I've been blazing
through the back catalog and his newerstuff of mister Liam Lynch. All the

(11:54):
cool heads just swiveled around Liam Lynch. He's kind of best known for a
track released in the early two thousandscalled the United States or whatever. This
is not It's okay, yeah,there it is. You all know it.
Some of you might know. Itis originally coming out of a soft
puppet named Olie on the short livedMTV puppet extravaganza cyphil and Ollie, which

(12:16):
Lynch co wrote, performed and wrote, wrote and performed the songs. And
if you haven't seen it, seekit out right now. S I F
l ampersand O L L Y.I envy those who have never seen or
heard it. Now, if thatwas the only thing he'd ever done,
which by the way, he accomplishedwhile living in London, having attended a
full musical education course with Paul McCartneyas the instructor. Even if he had

(12:39):
just made syphil and Ollie, hewould be a legend in my mind.
But then he also directed Tenacious din The Pick of Destiny. That's another
one of those. Had he onlydone that one thing situations. On top
of all of that, he putsout a fucking great record every couple of
years. And now, if Ihave to recommend any one of them to
the uninitiated, it I go withone of the more nakedly comedic releases,

(13:03):
and that is Fake Songs. Notonly does it include the United States of
whatever, but the funny songs aregenuinely funny. Electricians Day, good God,
let me give you somebody Electricial Day. It's a specialty. Oh let

(13:30):
me hear you right down, yousee it, let me hear it Electricians
Day Now where that was okay,I think you need to work on it.
So but there are genuine fake songshere, fake songs in the style
of his favorite artists and probably yours, and they're exquisite. His fake Byork

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song is uncanny. It's him performingas Buyork and it is you. I
don't know, I can't distinct.Wish grow, you can suffer alone,
teasing me, eating me, tryMe. But the tie in here is

(14:26):
his song Eclipse Me, which ishis Bowie fake song, and I'm gonna
play a clip of that after Ifinish up. Because all of those things
I mentioned, all of those highlyartistic and highly recommendable things, are not
the reason I'm recommending William Lynch orthis album. There are two songs on
the on the album. If you'veever pined for anyone, you're gonna You're
gonna dig these songs. Try Me, which is a t Rex glam rock

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banger every the same episode on YouJust dr and because you do now,

(15:13):
you'll dig them both. Like Isaid, But if you ever if you've
ever pined for someone who's in lovewith somebody else. Put on because you
do, and put it on repeatas rockin is anything you're gonna hear.
There's not a drop of comedy,which doesn't mean there's no humor. It's
just very clever. It's heartfelt,compassionate and a pure expression of a kind
of longing that is somehow fortifying,enjoyous. A draw a million and Ringo

(15:52):
starplays drums. I second that.I that's one of my favorites. He
does fake Talking Heads song on thatsame album that is as you said,
it's it's indistinguishable. He gets allof David Burns's kind of vocal inflections.
This is a joke, this issteeple. Look at the praying, praying

(16:18):
for something, writing lound the bus, potain Away. It's clear. I
think the key to good parody isyou really have to love what it is
you're you're sort of parodying. Andit's so clear that Liam Lynch has such

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affection for all of these bands thathe covers, and and that song with
Ringo Starr is fantastic. Also,it's a great album. He's just such
a great talented guy. Yeah,and he's just put out a new album,
and every much to check that out. I wouldn't recommend that one right
off the bat. He does havemore serious songs and serious albums. This
one, like I said, it'sthe most riotously funny. There are a

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couple hours after it that I wouldprobably recommend as his best. But anyway,
fake songs, everybody go check thatout. That's what I've been listening
to. Sorry, yes, Nate, but time h jamplaining Joel's infinity.

(17:27):
Just drag queens, SI me,you're daddy data day you Cliff Cavalc can
explain. Oh Lord Freezer, ohboy, here we go. He's mercurial

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that David Bowie. Every time youturn around, he's a different person altogether.
It must have been exhausting, butthank god he did it, because
those personas, those characters, they'reas much Bowie as Bowie is Jones if
you can dig that, and whata rogues gallery Bowie envisioned and brought to
life to sing the songs that hecouldn't or wouldn't. Now look, there

(18:10):
are several main established we all knowhim Bowie personas, so he starred US
Halloween, jack Alad Insane, theThin White Duke, blind Prophet, that's
my list anyway. But these arein no way the sum total of the
man's many guyss and performances. SoI'm gonna put it to each of you,
which of Bowie's many incarnations make youfreak out in a moon age daydream.

(18:33):
Oh yeah, Heather, We'll startwith you. Oh my gosh.
First of all, this will shocknobody. I'm sure Anybay knows me.
Like so many of us, DavidBoy has been a part of my life
since I can remember, Like thatwas an artist that even I remember even
just hearing and seeing as a littlegirl, that just clicks with me.
And I just feel like Boy likefor so many of us, and it

(18:57):
can and it's like it cantive tissue. It's like there are people that aren't
weirdos and artists and misfits like usthat love Boy. But then but for
people especially like us o our tribe, I feel like David Boy just like
he is one of those biggest likesort of beacons of light, Like he's
one of those artists that gets youthrough, gets you through the hard times

(19:22):
and shows it's like, hey,yeah, I'm an alien too, and
it's beautiful and just so I willjust I you try to to do just
pick one thing of anything a DavidBoys is almost impossible. This was tough
for me because his personas. Ilove all of them, and but when
pressed and at least this week,I have to say the thin white Dude.

(19:47):
Somebody was gonna pick it. Ithat was well because the minute,
the minute I saw when you sendus the questions immediately hurt in my head.
Boy, not just it's one ofmy favorite periods musically of Boys.

(20:07):
The look I've even tried to kindof replicate, not so much with the
seliked back aspect of it, butlike the two tone. I've done that
with my hair off and on throughthe years. I'm kind of doing it
tonight. It's hard to see becausethe headphones, but I still have some
bread in the back and kind ofthe blonde upfront. It's like, I
mean, like everything Bora did isiconic, but yeah, I had to

(20:32):
go to them with Duke. Butit's so hard because they're all great,
but I don't know what about whatabout you? HP? Like, what
was what was your choice? Ialso picked the thin white Dude, and
I figured this, Like I said, I I had every every confidence that
someone was going to pick someone else'schoice, and that's that's fine. I

(20:52):
mean, they're all great choices.I for me. Part of I can
explain a little bit. Part ofthe reason why I love this persona so
much is because it's so closely alignedwith probably my favorite album, at least
currently my favorite album by Body,which is Stationed the Station that was.

(21:33):
Obviously there's some association with the ManWho Fell to Earth because the look is
is very similar with the red hair, the slick back red hair. The
live shows at the time, he'she's so imposing with that sort of dark
vest, the white shirt and thedark slacks and cutting poses on the stage
and he's just was so it wassomething kind of regal and a little bit

(21:55):
dangerous about the character, which Iloved. And even the song itself stationed
the Stage and basically describes the thinwhite duke obviously, as you said,
the famous line about throwing darts andlover's eyes. But the song is so
great because it runs the gamut ofsort of evil intent of this character to

(22:15):
sort of cocaine induced paranoia and regretit. There's all there's a lot going
on in that song, and it'ssort of movements and it's great, and
Bowie would later call this time periodwhere he was portraying the Thin White Duke
as the darkest days of his lifedue to quote astronomical cocaine and amphetamine usage.

(22:36):
He reportedly lived on a diet ofred peppers, milk, and hard
drugs, and he would blame hehad some erratic behavior at the time.
I don't know how much you guyshave looked into this. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, he was accused. Wellwell, because like I said,
he was living off of red peppers, milk, and cocaine. He was
accused of He made some what someconstrued his fascist statements to the press.

(23:03):
At one point, he was photographedand people thought he was doing the Nazi
salute, which I don't think wasactually the case. I think the photographer
just wrapped a certain point, likehe was just waving straight out. It's
it's like backwards. Yeah, that'sthat's bullshit. Yeah. But but what
I what I find fascinating is hewould later claim that in his his mental

(23:25):
state was such that he doesn't evenrecall any of the sessions for A Station
the Station, which I think iscrazy because it's such a phenomenal album with
some great songs and he was.He was so he was burning the candle
at both ends to the degree wherehe just he basically had to escape to
Switzerland to save his own life becauseif he had stayed in la he would

(23:48):
just been a drug casualty. Butbut yeah, no, I'm with you
one hundred percent, Heather, thethin White Duke is. When I think
of Bowie, that's the first personathat comes to mind. I'm sorry you
mentioned the drugs, and I justremember seeing this interview with him where he
joked about how would him and AggyPop both together moved to Berlin to kind

(24:08):
of helped each other clean up fromvarious substances, and boy laughed. He's
like, oh, yes, wemoved to Berlin, the heroine capital of
the world. It's just any likedarkly chuckle, that's just like God,
I love him anyways, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Father Malone. All
right, listen, persona wise,this was near impossible. I came,

(24:33):
I came down to two and theybump up against each other. But ultimately,
weirdly, my favorite persona of DavidBowie is screaming Lord Byron. That's
right. He makes one appearance inthat twenty odd minute short film Jazz and
for Blue Jeen, directed by JulianTemple Right. They made that in support
of oh Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I gotcha.

(24:56):
So this is made in support ofTonight, which is the follow up
to Let's Dance. Yeah Yeah.It featured on that album. It's only
it's nine tracks, only two ofthem were written in their entirety by Bowie,
Loving the Alien and the Blue Jean. Loving the Alien belongs on a

(25:45):
later album and Blue Gene belongs onan earlier album. But anyway. The
short film features Bowie as Vic,this hapless billboard hangar who's attempting to date
a girl by convincing her he knowsrock stars Screaming Lord Byron, also played
by Bowie. We get the fullspectrum of Screaming Lord Byron. Unlike a
lot of Bowie's other personas or youjust catch glimpses of him, or maybe
you show up on stage or whatever. Here we get this guy his entire

(26:08):
life. He gets carried in unconsciousby three giant police officers and Ryan Almonds.
Then they snap him back to life, where he immediately falls into dealing
with the backstage hair guy just casualchatting, and then Vic the other Bowie
character, like trying to get backstage, ends up falling through the ceiling of
his dressing room and screaming. LordByron becomes this cowering, whimpering like he

(26:33):
hides in the corner and just begshim to go away, please go away.
And then he goes on stage andthe motherfucker just takes over it.
You've got Bowie's bike. She gotus. This is my favorite Bowie makeup,

(27:07):
it's my favorite Bowie attitude, It'smy favorite Bowie stage presence. He
stalks that stage. He owns it. The audience doesn't even need to be
there at all. He's ferocious andfun and choreographed to the tee. He
comes out in a turban that heunwinds by dancing the length of it down.
The stage is thrust. He huddlesup the band in a weird little

(27:29):
circle and like they pace around togetherlike weather player. At one point he
inspires, I'm gonna do air quoteseverybody. He inspires Utuo's Bono to run
around the stage with a spotlight likelighting up the audience. He the screaming,
Lord Myron's doing that. Oh,and the streamers at the end,
the the very theatrical streamers, followedby the snapping good God. It was

(27:55):
all beyond cool then, and youknow what, I watched it a bunch
again leading up to this Pine Canand it's still pretty fucking cool. Now.
People think that's a passable tune,like it's a throwaway Bowie, and
I suggest they have intercourse with themselves. I mean, look, it actually
don't matter because we're not reviewing thesongs, we're reviewing the persona. But
it just so happens. I lovethat song as much as I love the

(28:17):
weirdo singing it. I would lovean entire concert from Screaming Lord Byron anyway.
That's my choice. The other onewas is doesn't have a name,
and that's peach suited. Serious Moonlighttoward Bowie. That is my actual favorite,
but there's no there's nothing there.That's just it's just a shiny,
happy Bowie with a fucking teddy boyblonde do. That was everything. It's

(28:41):
beautiful, no doubt, But there'sa lot more to Screaming Lord Byron than
there was Serious Moonlight. Guy.I love that you pick that that persona
fa them alone. That's that videois very foundational for me because up to
that point, I think I thinkLet's Dance had already come and gone,
and I already was aware of whowe was. But he's so magnetic.

(29:02):
I mean, just the video forBlue Geen itself, taken out of the
context of the long form video.Like you said, the makeup is incredible.
He's so dynamic up on the stage. The song, I wholehardly agree
with your take on the song.I think the song is is incredible.
I love Blue Gene. I thinkit's one of his I wouldn't say it's

(29:25):
one of his best, but Ithink it's definitely up there. And yeah,
it's the streamers at the end alwaysget me because he does this kind
of thing where he kind of doesthis mime move where he kind of stops
and you can see the streamers stop. It's very cool, like because he
studied mime in the sixties, sohe's he knew how to do all that
stuff. But today right on greatgreat call. Yeah, that makeup is

(29:48):
gorgeous. That's one of my favoriteif I had to pick, if we're
doing favorite David Boy bakeup That andthe pirou clown from The Scary Monsters Era
would be stick a neck regularly likethis makeup because when they when you get
him in close up. Complimentary tothe eyes because he has blue eyes and
mostly black because of the because ofthe pupil there. But like the makeup,

(30:11):
just like it makes it more makeupsomehow, I don't know anyway,
Yeah, no, it looks Itlooks like something from like an early thirties
most like surrealest drawing of a facetoo, like the way that the cheekbones,
the angles and shadows are created onit. It's gorgeous. Also a
little trivia. One of one ofthe guys I can't remember if it's I

(30:32):
want to say it's the bassist inthis video. Dude is one of the
brothers that would go on to beingright, said Fred. Oh wow,
oh yeah, I watched the videogames it. Yeah, yeah, well
right, said Fred connect Sean.Also, I love this song, and
I a hundred and twenty thousand percentagree with your assessment of both Blue Geen

(30:55):
and Loving the Alien. Tonight isnot. I think it's one of his
worst albums. It's not. It'snot good. Blue Jean's a banger though,
like Blue Jean is it should havebeen on the previous album because it's
just as good as any of thematerial. I actually think it's one of
his best songs from the eighties.Tonight it seems like let's let my friend

(31:15):
Iggy Pop gets some residual money.Basically, let's let's parlay my success from
Let's Dance, and because it's alot of it's a lot of Iggy covers
and Iggy co writing, so that'swhats to me. And then two fucking
riotously good songs like I said thatshouldn't be on this album at all.
Blue Jean should have been on Let'sDance. It would fit right in and

(31:36):
Let's Dance I think agreed, agreed. Yeah, Loving the Alien I could
never get into because I feel likeI almost feel like it'd be better if
it was like Brian Ferry. Ialmost feel like there's a Brian Faery esque
past, like pastige or something goingon. It's very sinister. Yeah,
I love it. And the videowas kind of cool because he's sort of
kneeling in this sort of water andhe's gliding around and kind of barely skimming

(32:00):
the surface of the water. Ialways found like sinister is a great way
to describe it. But I justit feels languid to me. It's got
that great sort of breakdown when itgoes into the chorus, which you don't
necessarily expect it to go into that. It kind of reminds me a little
bit of parts of Man Who Soldthe World a little bit in parts.

(32:22):
I just I love that song,but I one hundred percent agree those two
songs are the cream of the cropof off of a fairly subpar album.
But that's not damning them with faintpraise. They were really good songs.
Do you guys want to do WorstPersonas? Absolutely? I do. Oh,
we gotta vote for go for it? Okay, so we're going forward.

(32:44):
Do we dare defile David's doppelgangers?We dare hp take it away?
This has bugged me for a littlewhile, And this might be stretching the
notion of a persona because as yousaid at the at the top bottom alone,
that there's really this five or sixthat everybody knows and they're very classic

(33:04):
personas. But this is not necessarilya persona. This kind of maps to
a certain period of his work,a period that I don't really care for.
And my vote for Worst Bowie personais what I would call the outside
slash Nine Inch Nails Bowie. Thisis the Bowie that was that sort of

(33:27):
came out behind his album Outside,which is an album that I've never really
sort of cotton too, never reallyappreciated. Maybe it's time for a reappraisal.
I always found it overly indebted tothe sort of grunge and industrial sounds
that were popular at the time,like Nine Inch Nails. Not coincidentally,

(33:47):
Nine Inch Nails opened for Bowie onthe subsequent American tour to support the album.
Don't You Do You have to gosome of the It's confusing these guys,
but squill on your This kind ofOutside is a very dark, atmospheric,

(34:22):
gritty album. It's a concept albumthat tells a story that involves a
detective, a girl who's murder he'sinvestigating, and all these weird characters and
they're all portrayed by Bowie and theykind of inhabit this sort of strange futuristic
gothic society and and and Brian Enois very heavily involved, and I love

(34:45):
love Brianino. It wasn't so muchBowie being a trendsetter as he was in
for his best work. To me, it felt like he was chasing a
trend a little bit and chasing thenine inch Nails bus because nineage Nails was
huge at the time. So forme, that's my least favorite Bowie.

(35:07):
I'm doing air quotes persona and maybethe album I'm maybe it's it's ripe for
a reappraisal on my part, butanyway, that's my vote. What do
you guys think? I love thatalbum. That album I actually remember when
it came out, and it feltlike it felt like, oh God,
like he's returning to doing something alittle experimental, a little outside the no

(35:30):
pun intended outside the box, becauselike other than oh God, other than
ten Machine, which actually I reallydo like me too, I felt like
his ladder, like when she getsthe late eighties period very safe, very
very safe, and just it justfelt like water down Boie. Now,
water down Boy is still better thana lot of people's best objectively, but

(35:52):
you know what this cat can do. And then when Outside came out,
I mean, the hearts Filthy lessonI think is a fantastic and it's a
fantastic video. I mean, butI'm a huge industrial music fan, and
maybe that's objectively, I'm like,I love Ministry, I love Revco basically

(36:13):
anything off Wax tracks from that period. I was a big fan of so
I. In my case, it'snot it's not because I didn't like that
style. I liked it fine.I like nine inch Nails at the time.
It's just I don't know. Forme at the time, at least
it was, it just felt like, and I don't I this is just
me supposing, but it felt alittle bit like he was chasing a trend.

(36:34):
But again, it's possible that timehas softened my opinion. Maybe I
should go back and check the albumout again. I probably should, But
that's that was just when when whenthe brief came in and it said,
well, who's your least favorite persona? This was literally the first thing that
I thought of. I agree withboth of you, Okay, necessarily,

(36:55):
I think he was chasing a trend, which felt icky as a Bowie fan
because he that was the first timewe ever saw him do that. But
I also think the album is prettyfucking good. Also, I mean,
objectively, I would never frame itin the way of chasing a trent.
But Boy historically has always been anartist that has been very moved and motivated

(37:15):
and used other artists as muses,like and I mean, he literally wrote
a song about Andy Warhol, likehe goes to that crowd, lou Reid,
There'd be certain albums we wouldn't havewith that lou Reid him connecting,
He was a great connector. Inever viewed it as chasing trend so much
as being a kind of lightning rodpersonality that he's a great artist, and

(37:36):
he knows and part of part ofhis artistry is connecting to the right other
artists to kind of get that juicegoing. I mean, And by the
way, none of this means thatthat this album has no value. Like
I said, it's it's just myopinion. Looking at his wider scope of
work, it's among my least favorite. But that doesn't mean it's a bad

(37:58):
album. And then, what's yourleast favorite person of mister David Bowie?
Of all the questions, I hatethis one the most, I because I
don't. I don't hate any ofthem. I don't. Of all the
cannon personas, I guess, whichdo you prefer the least? If I
had to pick, I'm gonna dokind of what HP did I'll take a
pay inspiration from you, sir,my fellow noise, chunky Brethren, whatever,

(38:22):
whatever was going on with the neverLet Me Down. I guess period
in the late eighties because I justfeel like it was David. I mean
I think he I mean he kindof even says almost as much in the
moon Age day Dream documentary where hekind of had lost his way. So
I guess I would pick that one. I think musically it's his least interesting

(38:43):
period. I don't think I cannever, in my heart say anything I
think David Boie has done sucks.I would never go that far, but
it moves me. It certainly movesme the least. And you could tell
he was kind of operating at halfpower at moutime Tales tail about twin Bus

(39:12):
Center. And that's why the ninetiesfor me was such a great resurgence.
For like, it's like, oh, they're our king is back, and
and him to me, him kindof going industrial was kind of like,
oh wow, yeah, I'm gonnawork with all these children that I inspired.

(39:35):
It's kind of how I viewed ittoo. But I guess if I
had to pick one that but honestly, I don't I don't. I don't
know. I don't just all theof all the main personas I like.
I like all of them. Ican't be cause it's like you've got the
button Man from Black Star and that'sgood. I love that and that album.
And yes, I like Halloween Jack. I love the pirole Halloween Jack.

(40:01):
What what what do you write?Is your I think we know your
answers are Halloween Jack. Oh mygod, it was just you know what
he is. It's ziggy start uswithout the forehead, nonsense and a fucking
ipatch. It's like this le,he's got that paddle guitar. Get out
of here. You stop it,stop it. Get to the duke,

(40:42):
you prick, get to the fuckingcynicism already. I actually I actually co
signed that a little bit, FatherMalone. And the reason is I don't
think the persona is a bad onein and of itself. What persona?
Just a dandy? No no,no, so hear me out. So
the issue I had with that particularalbum is it's not even it's well known

(41:07):
that he was going to try tomake a musical version of nineteen eighty four,
and he had written all these songsand there was there's demos on the
Sound and Vision box set that youcan hear, but he couldn't hep the
Orwell's widow wouldn't give him the rights, so he had to pivot and make
something out of this this planned conceptalbum. So for me, that's one

(41:31):
of my lesser Bowie albums. There'ssome great songs on it, but I
can't help listening to it and thinkinglike, well, this you can clearly
hear, like all of the nineteeneighty four sort of plot points throughout the
whole thing, and it's kind ofall bolted onto this weird concept of the
Diamond Dogs and the future and allthis. And that's why to me it's

(41:52):
not as interesting because it feels likea failure that he kind of tried to
make chicken salad out of chicken shit. So that's why I don't really love
it. But I don't know ifthat answers the persona itself is whatever.
I got no problem with that album. Obviously, it's a fucking great album.
I just think, master yeah,but it's just it's just Junior zig

(42:15):
Junior Ziggy. You make me picturewhen he's Halloween Jack with somebody's like,
hey, are you sick, hestarted. He's like, no, yeah,
exactly, that's exactly what it is. Ziggy's idea of going in the
sky so you can go to BurgerKing No films, Oh boy, I

(42:37):
love on film. He could pullyou into a movie or can shock you
right out of it. He's aperfect actor for telling a story and a
good actor. By the way,check out his very funny turn in the
Linguini Incident if you haven't seen thatone anyway, what's your favorite Bowie film?
Mister h P starting with me,so my favorite? I agree.

(43:00):
I think he's fabulous and just aboutanything you see him in. He's a
very natural actor for somebody who's thatis in his chosen original vocation. He's
fantastic. My favorite Bowie film theone that I this may not necessarily be
his best performance, but it's theone that I love the most, and

(43:21):
that is his turn as the goblinKing Jareth in Labyrinth from nineteen eighty six.
Sarah, go back to your room, play with your toys and your
costumes. Forget about the baby.I'm sure probably a lot of people have
already seen it. I'm sure youguys have both seen it. For me

(43:43):
in him and Labyrinth. I thinkBowie has the right mix of charisma and
other worldliness that is needed to makethe character of Jareth kind of come alive.
I mean, it's ridiculous. Hiscostume is ridiculous, his wig is
ridiculous. He just seems like he'shad so much fun in the role as
well, which is which is wonderfulto see. And it's just it's funny

(44:06):
because we just talked about the factthat he was being accused of being a
fascist in the mid seventies and herehe is ten years later, he's top
lining a Jim Henson fantasy movie.It's this man, could he could do
anything. It's incredible. And theother reason why I love Labyrinth so much
is I love the soundtrack in particular. I have such a deep love of

(44:28):
the song Underground off of that soundtrack, and it's honestly one of my favorite
Bowie songs of of alternative. It'skind of at earn to his young American

(45:01):
sort of roots, like Lutha vanrosIs singing, is doing backup vocals just
like he did on Young Americans.Shaka Khan does backing vocals. It's buried
in the mix, but Albert Collinsdoes awesome blues guitar behind everything that's going
on. But he it just feels, like I said, an updating of

(45:21):
young Americans that gospel feel, thesort of call and response of the lead
and the backing vocals, it's it'sphenomenal. I love it. So yeah,
Labyrinth, It's just such a fun, happy memory of mine as a
kid. And I think he's he'swonderful in it. Excellent choice, Heather.
I'm so curious. First of all, I love the way HP you

(45:43):
said Shaka Khan because you totally saidit like Shaka Khannan. But isn't that
like Melly mel I think, yeah, it after the fact that she was
really mad at the time because theyjust tacked on this hip hop thing onto

(46:05):
onto her song and then and thenit went triple platinum and she went,
no, that was good. That'sa good thing. I like that.
It's funny how when the check clearspeople their minds very quickly. This was
another tough question, but I lovedit because, like you said on the
Milone, David Boy, even inthe tiniest of roles and lesser movies,

(46:29):
is such a just your heart swells. You're like, oh, my God.
Like I believe when we discussed yellowBeard on the Culture Cast earlier this
year, David boy has a cameoin that, and I was so delighted.
I was like, oh my god, it's David Boy Like I fangirled
out so hard. And he's beenHe's had some great turns. I had

(46:49):
a narrow it down to two.My brodder up choice was Last Centation of
Christ. I thought he was great. That's a that's a beautiful movie.
And I thought Boy was absently spectacularas Pontius pilot and in a role like
it kind of again like what youwere saying, like that, it was
very understated the way he did it. It's not something you would typically think

(47:10):
about with with David BOYR unless you'rethinking like the Andrew laid Weber kind of
bigger production of it. But thisis Scorsese. It's a different beast.
Though I actually really do love she'sthis Christ superstar. But that's that's heard
her there. You do understand whathas to happen. I have a space
for you up on Golgotha three thousandskulls there by now probably more. I

(47:32):
had to go with my heart formy main pick, and I had to
go with that Labyrinth as well.As a child of the eighties, I
watched Labyrinth a lot. I meanto the point where I've often joked that
the reason my mother never had anyother children was probably because she sensed little

(47:53):
psychotic me watching it and being like, why doesn't she give up her ba
like her baby brother? Like,girl, you could be goblin green,
like you can like rule this amazinglike fantasy realm of puppets and have this
ball gown and dance with David boylooking so hot. Not fair you say
that so often. I wonder whatyour basis for comparison is. So the

(48:16):
leventh is a piece of cake,is it? Well, tot's see how
you deal with this little slice.I liked the wig. I didn't know
it was a wig, of course, because I was a little kid,
and I just thought it's like,man, it's a rock star. Of
course he's got like badass hair likethat. The codpiece. As an adult
is now I'm like, God,did I hit early puberty because of how

(48:37):
many times I watch this movie.Because he's got like they call him a
goblin king because he's got a goblinin his pan. Puppeteer, Like he's
like, I don't need a puppeteer. I am the puppeteer. But it's

(48:57):
I mean again, like what yousaid, HPU the music. I mean,
the music's great. I think it'sa like, of course, all
the design of the which I thinksome of the I want to say,
wasn't some of the design of thecreatures, like I mean, obviously it's
Tenson, but I want to say, like what was his name, Brian
Frown, who's such a beautiful illustrator. I mean, there's just such a
whimsy and just the fantasy of itall. It's such a great film.

(49:22):
It's still I think it is enchantingnow as it was then, and I
think it's a great testament to puppetry. I would kind of like to see
a type of film like this madeagain, like get Away from CGI,
Let's make some cool puppets. Ihonestly I can't imagine, and I know
other other girls might age. I'msure there were some dudes too that just
had a massive crush on the GoblinKing. I actually have one friend that

(49:44):
blames her bad taste in men inher teens in early twenties on us on
a combination of this movie in MotleyCrue. I'm thinking it's probably more Motley
Crue. But who was more charismaticthan David Boy and David Borg's eyeliner and
a giant codpiece. Forget about it, Slaber, But what about you,

(50:06):
father Malone. You gotta gotta kindof walk a tightrope here. Overall,
great movie versus personal favorite Bowie performancein a movie. Now mine came down
to two again. My runner upis Into the Night, John Landis's film
starring Jeff Goblum and Michelle Pfeiffer.Bowie is a hit man in that it's
a film peppered with very recognizable cameos, and Bowie manages to become a character

(50:34):
instead, and a very sinister oneat that. We keep mentioning that word
go very good. You're really verygood. I'm amazed we've not met before.
Look, guys, there's fucking there'sno debate. The movie is Labyrinth,
Jarreed, the godness that bugs,that launched an entire generation into puberty.
I won't split it down gender lines. We all loved Jarff. It's

(50:58):
a solid performance, it's fun,he's mischievous, he's he grounds the entire
puppet centered movie. If she everkisses you, I'll turn you into a
prince. You will Prince of theLand of Stench. And what a goddamn
good movie. Man. Look,people drone on and on about world building

(51:20):
these days, I say, takea look at this kingdom. There was
a time when fantasy entertainment was sparseat best. I can probably name everything
from the eighties on, like twohands point is. Fantasy films were rare
and rarer. Still was an actuallydecent fantasy film, you know, one
where the creators cared from like themoment they thought of the thing until they
fucking shipped the Prince to the movietheaters. So God bless Jim Henson because

(51:45):
he gave us two And I loveDark Crystal. But Labyrinth works on every
level. It's people with some ofthe best characters in any fantasy thing.
Come on, man, the worstthings in this place. You all heard
his voice just then, the helpinghands, come on, come on,
we have all day. The trashlady watch a mat of ike. Don't

(52:06):
you like you're told me? Thedoor knockers, y'all the door. You're
a wonderful conversational campaign. You cantalk all you know his bone. His
other movies might have artistic cachet,or they might be like CAMPI er fun
if that's what you're into. Butthis movie, to me is the equivalent

(52:27):
of a rainy Sunday afternoon. Ican put it on any time and watch
it from beginning to end. He'sgreat in it. I don't have as
much fun with any of his otherfilms as I do this. Like I
said, like, is this abetter movie than Man Who Fell to Earth?
I don't know. That's debatable,but this is the one I'm gonna
choose every single time. Hell hallelujah. Also, I do love Man Who

(52:50):
Felt to Earth, but I didn'tI didn't even think about picking that one
because my favorite performance in the movieswere Toorns. So oh, I like
Candy Bark in that movie myself.She creates on me in that movie.
And then you just don't like,can't sorry, I'm sorry, good lord.
I'm not saying against her. I'mjust saying that her in that movie.

(53:10):
Okay, calm down, but rippedTorn rip Torn is like a pagan
god come to terrorize and fertilize ueall at the same time. And I'm
down, all right, Simmer down, look, everyone makes a terrible movie.
I have made a terrible movie.I'm not even kidding bow He's just

(53:34):
a man, or just an alien, or just an angel, but they're
all fallible. That's my point.HP worst movie. I'm not sure if
if you both will appreciate this ornot, but nevertheless, this is what
I picked. I didn't go witha film. I went with a television
appearance that Bowie made. This appearancehe appeared. The character's name was Sir

(53:58):
roland more Cock. The TV showwas dream On on HBO. It was
season two, episode one. Doyou guys remember this show? I do,
and I remember the episode, andI know he did it because he
was friends with John Landis, whocreated that series. Yes, and John

(54:22):
Landis in fact directed this particular episode. So I when the brief came in,
the first thing I did was Iwent and looked at Bowie's IMDb two
to see what, you know,if there's anything I've overlooked and what have
you. And then I saw thathe was in dream On and I stopped
and I said, did I didI really see that? I was almost
like this thing that was half rememberedin the back of my mind, but

(54:42):
I didn't really believe it until Iwent and sought out the episode. The
guest stars, even on this particularepisode are crazy, like sylve'ster just alone
makes an appearance, Fran Drescher isin it, Mimie Rogers, Tom Behringer.
These were all big stars at thetime. But now, like who
remembers dream On? Like in casualconversation, nobody thinks of dream On?

(55:05):
Well, might I point out thatHBO shows from that era the sort of
proto what became HBO's slate of televisionProgramming'm talking about, like dream On and
Tales from the Crypt and The Hitchhikerand those kind of things. They've all
been effectively stricken. HBO doesn't promotethem or syndicate them anymore, and the
companies that did them don't either,so they're they're hard to find, Like

(55:29):
it's hard to find Tales from theCrypt, and everybody loves Tales from the
Crypt. Never mind dream On.I don't think it's a great series.
I just think the reason when nobodyremembers it is because it's just no longer
available, and that's probably a contributingfactor. I think that's a great point.
But at the same time. LikeI think at the time it was
considered kind of groundbreaking because it hadcopious nudity, which being on HBO afforded

(55:53):
them that luxury to sort of havethe language and nudity, what have you.
But so this particular episode, though, I had to go back,
Like I said, and rewatch it, and I remember watching it at the
time because I was already a bigBowie fan by that point. He plays
this director. They're making a movie, and the director of this movie is

(56:15):
played by David Bowie. As Isaid, his name is Sir Roland Moorcock,
which in itself is like an embarrassingsort of play on words. I
was embarrassed for Bowie watching this episodesome thirty years later. That blouse is
a disease. I just thought,I went with the skirt. Indeed does

(56:37):
this is not what we discussed atall. This is not the wife of
Richard Stone. This is the wifeof a civil servant from Bay, your
own New Jersey. There's no style, no wits, not a trace of
sexuality. And that blouse makes onewonder whether the woman has a vagina or
a snap us. Although Bowie's fine, I mean all, he doesn't He's
not called upon to do a wholelot. He basically just has to be

(56:59):
the real this sort of euro trashdirector. Ever, he just has to
be disdainful and caddy and make funof everybody that crosses his path. And
there's a certain novelty in watching himkind of in this bizarre, sort of
cheap looking sitcom. But and maybeit's a credit to him that he still
has the ability to rise above thesort of flimsy premise of this show.

(57:22):
I can't believe this show like hasescaped my notice all these years. It's
so bad, and unfortunately he's apart of it. Heather, you cheated,
you know what. He went sohard on the description of the show.
Now I remember that Martin Tupper wasthe name of that lead character.
Anyway, Heather, I bet you, I bet you have a movie you

(57:42):
don't like. For the record ofall the David Boy performances I've seen,
I don't think he's ever given abad performance. That boy is never the
issue, and he's not the issue. And what I'm about to say because
one film, and I actually don'tthink this is a terrible film, but
I think it's spotty, and Ithink it's very uneven, and I think
it kind of fails to live upto its potential. And that's absolute beginners.

(58:04):
I said it all your old styleof audience been put out the pastor
in the provinces. We're no doubtyou'll live forever. But down here head
is definitely dead because I feel likeDavid Boyce weirdly, even though it's a
sizable role, I feel like he'skind of wasted in that movie. Ray
Davies section in that movie that wasactually the best part of it, and
it's only like one song, butit's Ray Davis. And yeah, I

(58:29):
totally I fan girl for Ray Daviesas well, and so but I'm like,
if you have David boy and youbarely remember him being in a movie,
something has gone wrong. It's like, I will never forget him being
in Yellow Beard, and he's inthat movie for like for like thirty seconds.
But I do think I do loveand I believe that's Julian Temple.

(58:49):
I do love Julian Temple as awhole. I think he's great, and
I think that film has some greatdesign to it. I don't think it's
a terrible film. I think it'sinteresting. I just think it's very spotty.
So then I'm like, well,what am I gonna pick? And
then I'm like Bosquillotte, and Iagain, I don't think the film is
terrible and it's moving at parts becauseI think the performances as a whole are

(59:10):
phenomenal. Like I think I cannotremember the actwr's name right now. The
actor that plays Boscot's really good,David Buch, Thank you god. I
can't really forgot that David Boch.I showed that movie in a movie theater
projection. Oh nice, nice nowI saw it. I saw it in
college in a class and I enjoyedit at the time, and I think

(59:31):
David Boyce really great as Dandy Warhol. It wasn't sure it was gonna do
because I'm a huge Warhol fan.I've been rereading up on Andy and the
whole factory scene since I was akid. Pretty much. Oh gee,
it didn't work very much on theseI didn't give you, like five Bruno,
you're rich. Maybe you should talkto Bruno. You don't even work

(59:52):
on your stuff. But the reasonI'm mentioning it is because of Julian Schnobel,
Because this motherfucker loves to say,fu late, and that is where
he tampers. And this film hassome good stuff to it. It has
powerful stuff to it with the acting, and some of the filmmaking is not
bad. I will be objective,however, him totally casting this Gary Oldman

(01:00:15):
as the proto Nobyl the proxy novels, and he's so noble, He's so
fucking noble, he's so in lovewith himself. He's about ten people on
the planet. I don't know anythingabout painting, and andy he's won.
You know, your audience isn't evenborn yet. Julian Schnoebel is the kind

(01:00:35):
of guy that says his own namewhen he climbaxes. That kind of impurity
and the arts I find repellent andrepugnant, and I think it's I think
his stinch sours all the stuff Ilove in that movie. So I'm going
with Bosquiat. I have to disagreewith you fundamentally. The filmmaking is,
in fact quite poor. I wastrying to they wandered affair that flick.

(01:01:05):
I don't think it's the worst thingDavid Bowie is in, though it's a
movie we've already spoken about. Heather. It's yellow terrible. It's that actually
is the right answer? Can Ichange my hair? I changed my answer.
It's yellow I don't know. Ohno, what you're stricken from the
record because should hear? It's yeah, Robert Chriscut, you both are terrible

(01:01:30):
yellow Beard. It is like itcan't help it be the worst movie because
of the incredible array of talent onscreen. It should be one of the
funniest movies of all time. Andthe fact is, the bright part of
the movie is when David Bowie showsup for two fucking seconds, like as

(01:01:50):
a guy with a with a thinstrap to his back, as if he's
been out swimming as a shark.Don't anybody watch it? Look it up
on YouTube and watch that one scenein the pump rooms, or listen to
the culture Cast episode. It's agood episode. I feel proud of it.
I feel like we did a goodjob. I have two follow ups.
You talked about Absolute Beginners, andI basically agree with everything you said

(01:02:12):
about the movie and his sort offeature. I will say two things though.
The theme that he wrote Absolute Beginnersis also one of my favorite Bowie
songs. I love you Absent Games. I believe it features Rick Wakeman on

(01:02:45):
the keys, which is kind ofa callback to Space Odity. He played
the melotron on Space Audity. Theother thing I will say about it.
When Bowie died in twenty sixteen,I remember, I think it was an
engineer from the Absolute from from theAbsolute Beginners sessions had posted on YouTube some
outtakes from the recording session and it'sstill up on there. I checked,

(01:03:08):
and it's basically him recording the demofor Absolute Beginners. And you can hear
Bowie on the talkback. He's havinga little fun and he says to the
guy like, well, okay,let's let's do it back. I'm gonna
do some impressions, and he singsthe same line about seven or eight times.
One time he does it as louReed Win five Blue Coal, so

(01:03:32):
she made up the sound with ahorse of the sound drive five. One
time he does it as Iggy Popwhen the wire broo gal for old Grand
Model to before and then she beatup the sam with the horse altrack hiling

(01:03:55):
behind he kills. I mean,some of them are better than others.
Not surprisingly, his impressions of louReed Iggy Pop are unbelievable. He's so
spot on obviously because he knew themso well. But when I think of
absolute beginners, I always flashed backto that week where we all learned that

(01:04:15):
he had passed away, and itkind of takes me back to that video.
Seek it out if you can.It's really really fun. Oh my
god, we'll totally check that out. Thank you for the hot tip.
Oh, we're definitely going to havea Spotify list. We haven't mentioned that
yet because I'm running the show andI'm lazy, But make sure you go
to our episode description listeners to hearall of the songs you've heard mentioned so
far. Now we have one moretopic to go, but wait under the

(01:04:40):
moon line, the serious more linelie quiz to Yes. I'm so excited
about everybody ready for quiz? Hellyeah, I think so? Oh baby,
me too. Now, this isn'tgoing to be like a free for
all. I'm I'm gonna throw outa question and have you both buzz in.
I think I'm gonna ask Heather aquestion. I'm gonna ask HP a

(01:05:01):
question one after another. They're gonnastart out pretty easy, they're gonna get
harder, little spot Heather, I'mnot ultimately sure of your knowledge of David
Bowie. I'm well aware of HP'snear fucking fanatical knowledge of David Bowie,
so maybe I've tilted the question.It's a little bit harder to him.

(01:05:25):
Okay, don't you know what,I'm old. All this knowledge has left
my brain. Okay, come on, Al Jolson? You ain't You are
not old, You're not old?Could you just call me Al Jolson?
All right, Heather, We're gonnastart with you. True or false?
David Bowie was raised in Lincoln,Nebraska. Are you shitting me? False?

(01:05:47):
False? HP Bowie character Major Tomappears in three songs. Name them
ah Will Space Oudity one, Ashesto Ashes two and Peter Shillings Major Tom
Coming Home. That's a David Bowiesong. Incorrect now failure one for Heather,

(01:06:10):
Hold hold on, hold on?What's what's the third song? I'm
right by the I'm right by theway. You're not Hallo Spaceboy ninety six
ninety six, Thank you Boo.I'm right next, Heather. Yes,
the future Ziggy Stardust changed his nameto David Bowie to avoid confusion with the

(01:06:30):
monkeys Mike and Nesmuth. That's falsebecause he changed his name because his name
the original name is David Jones.Jones Another point for Heather hp oh.
He appeared in ten bands, sometimesunder an assumed name. That's over the
length of his career. Okay,name them? Okay. So there's the

(01:06:51):
Spiders from Mars. There's Tin Machine. God, I'm blowing it. I
haven't even gotten that far. Isorry, you want to hint? Sure,
too bad. Conrad's, the HookerBrothers, the King B's, the

(01:07:12):
Manish Boys, the Lower Third,the Buzz, the Riot Squad, the
Hype, the dow Jones Index.I should have gotten the Manish Boys and
the Hype. I'm embarrassed, moveon, please, all right, Heather.
In nineteen sixty nine, Bowie formedhis own mime troop name it was
it Flowers? Oh so cos Feather? Oh God, damn it. Father,

(01:07:38):
Say all right, the joke isover. I'm not just gonna give
you fucking softballs anymore? All right? Uh? Okay? HP ready,
Yes, Yes. Frequent Bowie keyboardistRick Wakeman says he met with Bowie in
late June of nineteen seventy one,where Bowie played him demos. Quote.
He played the finest selection of songsI have ever heard in one sitting in

(01:08:00):
my entire life. I couldn't waitto get into the studio and record them.
Where did they meet? I've knownthis, I will say. I
know that Rick wake this is triviafor you. I know Rick Wakeman's favorite
tavern was called the White Heart.I'm going to say the white Heart Tavern.
I'm sorry. The answer is HaddenHall Hadden. Can we give him

(01:08:24):
half a point for having random likeRick Wakeman, I'll give him. I'll
give him. I'll give him afull point if he can name the two
tracks that he played for him.But oh, they must have come off
of the first album I've heard thisbefore, probably Wild Eyed Boy from Free
Cloud and Memories of a Free Festival. Oh, it was changes in Life

(01:08:45):
on Mars Shit, I should havegotten life on Mars Christ you should have
all right, Heather, I ready, I'm ready Forraddy. You think Bowie
was a selfish lover, No,I think I think I think he was.
I mean he had girls, digmatizedand some dudes, so I think
he was a very attentive lover andhe probably was willing to go downtown.

(01:09:10):
I think he was generous at times, but was also very very selfish.
But it was okay. Because itwas him exactly, which I don't think
is selfish. I think if you'reif the other partner is satisfied and down,
that's not really selfish as it,because everybody's having a good time.
HP The Outside album cover art fromnineteen nineteen ninety five by David Bowie himself

(01:09:34):
in the painting bonus. If youcan name the medium? Was it called
leon? No? Was it oilon canvas? No? Well, it's
my least favorite album, so Iplead the fifth head of dB acrylic acrylic
on canvas that looks so good forcrilic Lovely. Heather Iman has a tattoo

(01:09:56):
on her ankle as a tribute toher husband. Name it? Is it
his initials? I actually don't knowthose. This is me just guessing.
I've never seen this tattoo. HP. Can you can jump in and get
a point on the board. Isit called husband? That'd be amazing you
like my tattoo? It just Idon't know. It's a Bowie knife.

(01:10:24):
She has a it's actually kind oflame, but yeah, yeah, I
kind of you know what it isthough, She's like, yeah, that's
something I'm never mind. I wasgonna make a Roland more cock choke.
Please do Oh, I'm sorry.All right, Well that's the end.
Heather one HB. I'm very disappointed. I'm disappointed in myself. I I

(01:10:46):
I should there's a few easy noteasy, but there's a few pieces of
answers I should have gotten. Idon't know. I have no excuse.
The only Rick Wakeman I can comeup with is the Fleshtones have a song
called Rick Wakeman's Cape. So hewrote a book. He actually wrote several
books, but he wrote a bookcalled Grumpy Old Rock Star that I actually
would highly recommend. It's a lot, it's it's funny. He talks about

(01:11:10):
doing King Arthur on ice and aheart attack during the performance. It's a
really good book, and a lotof my Rick Wakeman knowledge comes from that
book. All right, Listen,he didn't live in a vacuum that we
know of. The man collaborated,he had inspirations, he had bandmates,
he had rivals, and he helpedproduce some of the finest music of the

(01:11:32):
twentieth century. No hyperbole. Whetherthat was through songwriting or producing or duetting,
the field is wide open. Here, what's your favorite Bowie collaboration.
I'm going to start with you heav'Oh my gosh, yet yet again another
toughie I had, I had,and McK ronson's one of my runner ups.
I have two runner ups, himand Tony Visconti because Visconti's work as

(01:11:55):
producer I think is I mean againjust part parcel of getting the boy that
really started planning the seeds out there. But I had to go with THEO.
I mean, it's I'm the workwith O just that was oh,
I mean I was already he alreadyboy, already had my heart, he

(01:12:16):
got my soul with the work withTHEO. I mean, just some of
the most tremendous innovative like musical workand collaboration of the seventies with those batch

(01:12:49):
of albums. I also think BrianEno in general in the seventies such a
tremendous figure as a solo artist.And if you be my thoughts, I
got off the man I used tosaid, you fuck stuff, and that's
what's maybe he's being re used to. And especially like we're talking like androgynist

(01:13:26):
Scullt bisexual. I don't know ifhe really was bisexual, but very like
bi sexual adjacent because he was justlike, uh, my favorite period of
you know, and I like topretend that Eno went into hiding and never
worked with Coldplay or U two forthe record, I like to I just
want to live in that little shellof an existence there. But but yeah,

(01:13:47):
I mean, and those two Titans, because David Bori is a Titan
already and him coming together with BrianEno, I mean, how could magic
not be made? It was justwhat I think of songs. I think
of some of the most in theseventies. It's so much, so much
music that was phenomenal. But thosebasically all of those Berlin albums with Eno

(01:14:09):
just perfection, absolute sonic perfection.Then they're they're like tattooed in my in
my vena cava in my veins.It's part of my DNA. I absolutely

(01:14:45):
love it. So I gotta gowith my Mannino. Excellent choice, hb
counterpoint, It's such an excellent choice. It's the choice that I made as
well. It's Brian. Now,I will say, before I get to
that, I might run a roundup. Was going to be Lou Reid
just for another reason for the albumTransformer, which in my mind is as

(01:15:06):
much Bowie's achievement as it is LouReed's but but yeah, I echo everything
you said Heather about Brian, youknow, and more. For me,
it's it's all about I mean,I spent all this time tearing down the
Outside album, which is a bigEno collaboration. But for me, I'm
going back to what you said aboutthe Berlin Trilogy, which is Low,

(01:15:30):
Heroes, and Lodger, which arethree of my favorites. I love the
spirit of experimentation on all of thosealbums. I love how ambient and texturally
interesting they are. And part ofthat good, you know, has to
go the credit has to go tofolks like Robert Fripp and obviously Tony's Tony
Visconti and so on. But butyou know, is he He came in

(01:15:53):
on Low and his influence kind ofpeaked with Heroes, and one of the
things, one of the sort ofbits of trivia, he used what are
called oblique strategy cards. I don'tknow if you guys are familiar with them.
I tell our listeners what that obliquestrategies. It's a deck of cards
like you would get you would findin a board game that you know,

(01:16:14):
would have that we're supposed to spurgreater creativity and help people break themselves out
of like a rut or like awriter's block, if you will. They
were described as quote, part fortunecookie, part Monopoly chance cards. I
looked up these cards before the showjust because I've always been curious what did
they say? What? You know, because they brought up a lot and

(01:16:35):
I found a few of my favoritesare. One of them is idiot Glee.
Two words, Idiot Glee. You'resupposed to present this card to somebody
and help break them out of whateverstasis creatively they're in. Another one says,
quote a line has two sides,and yet another one says, change

(01:16:56):
nothing and continue with immaculate sits andsty These were cards, like I said,
that Eno would hand out to themusicians and spur them into different directions.
They wouldn't necessarily have been on famously. I know on Lodge, I
think the song Boys keep Swinging.He had the drummer and the bass player
switch instruments Boys Boys. But thosethree albums, Low Heroes and Lodger are

(01:17:34):
the ones that I keep returning toover the years, and in my mind,
just as I said for lou Reedand Transformer, these are as much
ENO's achievements as they are Bowies,so my pick is Ino. How about
you follow them alone? What isyour Did you pick Brian Eno as well?
That's what everybody it's going to be. No, it's not. I'm

(01:17:56):
not gonna mention my runners up becausewhen I went to tell my girlfriend am
for the finalists, I gave herthe first option and she looked at me
like I was proof of life onMars. As if there were any other
choices for me, you gotta tellus the runner up. Then. No.
From nineteen seventy two's Transformer Satellite ofLove, Lou Reed nice, you
mentioned the album as you're a runnerup. This is There is no other

(01:18:20):
collaboration as far as I'm concerned thanthis album and Bowie's influence on it.
Now obviously like lou Reid wrote it, wrote the song when he was still
in the Velvet Underground. They recordeda demo of it which somehow did not
end up unloaded, and thank godit didn't. Sad, A lot of

(01:18:45):
sad. Lot of the structure isthe same. Most of the lyrics correspond.
You can hear it. I'm gonnaput it up, We're gonna have
it on the Spotify playlist. Youcan hear the original Velvet Underground. What

(01:19:09):
that song their version lacks is thedivine. Bowie makes the song sore.
No, that's actually incorrect, becausethat would that would be lie forward momentum.
This it's airy and it feels likegravity is being defined on the song
side note, every time I geton an airplane and we're taking off,

(01:19:29):
I play Satellite of Love without failfor years and years and years, I
honestly can't imagine a better soundtrack towatch the Earth drop away, satellite Satellite
of long sad line. I've beentold that you've been bold with ha again.

(01:20:00):
John Bowie turned what was a shaggyrock tune into a song for the
age is. It lays a lushbed behind the vocals. It frames the
lyrics, which have been revamped stupendouslyhere by the way Wincoln Blincoln and nod
Yees Lou. It doesn't have tobe about the people, you know.
You can just make up characters anyway. Ostensibly about a guy who's fixating on

(01:20:24):
TV in the space race because hisgirlfriend is flagrantly unfaithful, And it's definitely
that in the demo form, buthonestly, in the Bowie version, let
me put it this way, theVelvet Underground version is Walter Mittie and the
lou Reed David Bowie version is JonathanPrice at the end of Brazil both and
pathetically, but Brazil is so fuckinggorgeous. Plus on top of all of

(01:20:48):
that, once you realize that that'sBowie in the background, you will never
unhear it. You'll never hear thesong the same way again, and you
will be staggered by his creed.He fhone settos that he's pulling off as
the song crescendos. Sat anyway,Satellite Love, I have only one choice

(01:21:30):
for collaboration. That's it. That'sI love that pick. It reminds me
when I saw Lou Reid at GreatWoods in ninety two. I think it
was he was on he was touringbehind the Magic and Loss album, which
is actually a pretty good album,and one of one of the disappointments that
I recall time was he did notdo Satellite of Love. He did do

(01:21:53):
Walk on the wild Side, becauseI think Mark Wahlberg's like the song that
he did that sampled. It waspretty pop and it was his way of
taking back the song which was sampled, but he did not do Satellite of
Love. He did the Sweet Janeno Satellite of Love. So I was
bummed. Oh man, I'm bummedbecause I never got to see him.
Why at least you got to seeLou That's awesome. Oh HP went to

(01:22:19):
the fucking Glass Spider Tour. Whatno no, well, no, no
no, I didn't go to theGlass Spider Tour, and I should have
brought this up earlier. I did. However, I did go to the
Sounded Vision Tour. It was myfirst show. Actually, Bowie was the
very first concert that I went to, and it was July twenty first,
nineteen ninety. And the reason whyI will always know that date is because

(01:22:42):
the same day was when Roger Watersdid The Wall live in Berlin remembere the
Berlin Wall came down because on theway home, I remember my dad picked
us up and we were driving homeand they were rebroadcasting it on WBC at
the time. But yeah, thatwas my first show and it knocked me
on my ass. It was beautifullystaged, carl It was I want to

(01:23:05):
say, Adrian Blue was on guitar, which was pretty cool. That's cool,
dude. Yeah, And I believeCarlos Alomar was still in the band
at that time. The cool,the see the thing of it is,
so I was lucky enough that ReikoDisc had picked up Bowie's legacy catalog when

(01:23:27):
I was in high school and theywere releasing them basically sequentially with all these
great bonus tracks, and and FatherMalone mentioned this in the last episode when
he talked about Morphine. Morphine wasalso on Racho Disc. So Reco Disc
was a label out of Salem.It was silly as a kid, but
there was something kind of cool aboutthe fact that Bowie was on the label

(01:23:48):
of like, you know, alocal sort of record label. I don't
know, it was something kind ofcool about it, and discovering his his
back catalog through this incredible reissue program. And it was a special tour date
because I think he got like thegold record for Changes Bowie, which was
a huge record for him at thetime. It was like the first record

(01:24:10):
of his new deal with Riicho Disc, and you know, it's all the
classics. So so yeah, Ididn't see Glass Spider. That was a
little you know, ahead of mytime or before my time, but but
yeah, Sound and Vision nineteen ninetythat was I was never the same after
that. That's amazing. Holy shit. I will say, there's a on
YouTube. It should still be there. There's there's video of the Glass Spider

(01:24:31):
tour. And even though that's notlike a great period musically for David,
like in my opinion, that touris fucking phenomenal, Like, holy shit,
well it's cool. Peter Frampton wasin the band, which I thought
was actually a pretty cool move atthe time because the guy could play guitar.
Oh and he had he had,and he had a history with Bowie.
Really Bowie kind of like gave hiscareer a boost because he was going

(01:24:55):
nowhere at the time, so forhim to be asked to join the band
was pretty slick. Boie had aknack of, you know, finding these
people either before they hit or givingthem a shot, like Stevie or Avon
on Let's Dance. Of course,Tina Turner on on on Tonight, you
know she was just you know,becoming Tina Turner with Private Dancer. So

(01:25:18):
he was ahead of the curve ina lot of ways. Oh gosh.
Always yeah. Also, one ofthe dancers in the Glass Spiders tour is
Fast Attack And for anybody who's afan of Devo. You should know that
name because he is the amazing punkrock dancer and the music video for Satisfaction.
I did not notice Look Looks gotall the Lucas got the trivia.

(01:25:39):
Now to Tony Basil was the choreographerfor the Glass Spider Tour and she dated
Jerry Cassali from Devo. I gota lot of Devo trivia. As much
as I love David boy, Iprobably know a little more trivia once about
TiVo, but your interests have intersectedat this very moment. Yeah, it's
it's perfect, but that's so cool. You got to see that tour.

(01:26:00):
Guys, Not every duo is Laureland Hardy. Sometimes it's the two corries
after dream a Little Dream. Suchare the occasional pairings of David Bowie.
Worst collaborations, Hey there, we'llgo with you. Well, to quote
a collaboration that did work, whichwas Franz Ferdinand and Sparks. They did
a song called collaborations don't Work,They don't work, they don't work.

(01:26:21):
And for me this was again Ilove how all of this was so hard.
By the way, this was likesuch a great challenge, like as
an episode because most of David likeeverything. David Boy touched so much greatness.
There's so much killer, not thatmuch filler, but the filler is
there. And I'm gonna have tomake this a tie, and I imagine

(01:26:45):
one of you guys have to have. There's gonna be some intersection. It's
a time. And for me totie is between Mick Jagger with Dancing in
the Streets, which is an abominationof not only against God, but against
you know, Martha and the Vandellas. Swing and swing Dan in those speed

(01:27:11):
doesn't matter too mad, come myGod soon, dance in those steed.
It's also like, these are twoartists I love like I you know,

(01:27:34):
I mean like I I love DavidBoy Moore, but I love the Stones
like thrilling Stones. I mean,it's some absolute just amazing, grotty,
dirty, sleazy rock and roll.Mick Jagger's fucking amazing and performance they too.
They were allegedly lovers, but Idon't, I don't. I did
not hear any passion in this.I just hear just obnoxious MTV overproduced pap

(01:28:00):
It's not good. Tied with thatis the Little Drummer Boy cover with Bing
Crosby. It's just ever played.I don't. I don't have hate for
it, I just don't care forit. I don't even like that song
as a Christmas song, to behonest, and I mean as beautiful as
boys vocal is on it, andhis vocal it's usually as gorgeous. I
don't like being Crosby. All Ican think about is just how he beat
his kids, Like that's all Ican hear, That's all I get hear.

(01:28:25):
It's just like, oh God,this man was a nightmare. And
I can separate the art from artistsand other cases, but I can't with
being Crosby, but dancing in thestreets, especially for any of us that
grew up with MTV, you couldn'tescape it. It was like the herpies
of covers. It would not goaway. Like I'd be like more penicillin,
give me all the penicillin. Nope, it's still there. It's still

(01:28:46):
fucking there, along with we arethe world people. MTV was overrated.
Okay, that's all America. Yeah, that's bas you back in the US
is summer, Like I know,wait, I know what because it played
that much. I haven't voluntarily watchedthat since I was a kid. But

(01:29:09):
it's there. It's there, freshin my brain. But AnyWho, enough
of my bally whoo and bombasted ofnegativity, HP, what is your least
favorite David Boy collaboration? To nobody'ssurprise, again, we concur there's only
one choice as far as I'm concerned, and that is dancing in the street

(01:29:30):
with Big Jagger. Now I getit. I know that it was it
was for a good cause, itwas for live aid. It was rush
recorded and filmed so that they couldbroadcast it during the big concert. And
that's and that's fine. I Ican appreciate the fact that they had noble
intent, But the in the videohas been a punching bag for decades,
but in this case it's deservedly so. The image of Bowie and Jagger kind

(01:29:55):
of shimmying and grinding their way aroundan abandoned factory at night, it's still
haunts me to this day. Andas and it's a cliche, but just
like father alone, you know,South America, I just hate that and
and I and I rewatched it before, you know, for the show,
and it's just it's aged like finemilk over the years. It's just so

(01:30:17):
it was already cheap by eighties standards, and it's only gotten worse over time.
I I I, and I alsoI do agree with you on some
of your points about the Little DrummerBoy. I think it was an easy
not not a way for people tobe edgy, but it was a way
for people to feel clever around theholidays, and like, oh no,

(01:30:38):
this is a version of Little DrummerBoy you've never heard before. This has
but it's it's become the norm andnot the exception. So yeah, it's
it's it's I don't think it's asbad as dancing in the street though.
That's like I said, there's onlyone answer in my mind, and it's
this. I agree, there isonly one answer. That answer is a

(01:30:59):
little drummer boy. Jesus fucking notop to bottom though, oh my child
and your child to look. Itwas a way for Bowie to attempt to

(01:31:31):
normalize himself in the in the heartsand minds of people at Christmas time.
Right, It isn't make up.David Bowie's got a little he doesn't want
to be there, he doesn't wantto be singing the song. His part
of the song is made up.Little Drummer Boy does not have a counterpoint
the peace on Earth. That's awhole other thing that they just grafted on
for it. I fucking hate it. I think of Bing Crosby smacking around

(01:31:54):
his kids too. Actually, whenI think of Bing Crosby, I think
of Phil Hartman saying, I cana pistol it a pup show? Oh
man, no, I have todeal with THEO. That was great.
That was the dream Malcolm Jamal Warnerhis dream sequence. That was awesome.
Crosby show. I've never enjoyed it. At Christmas. I dread hearing it.

(01:32:15):
I hate looking at them on thein the old film, with that
gaussy way to seventies haze floating aroundthem like auras. It's it looks like
uncomfortable. They don't like, theydon't seem like they get along at all.
It's like the anti Christmas and thatway. I guess I like it,
but oh man, no, neveragain that I think you're right.

(01:32:35):
It does the one and it's nota positive. But they do like they
do seem to have like the chemistrythat like relatives that hate each other do
at family at Christmas time. So, and there's a part of the very
beginning where they're kind of they're talkingbefore they they're they're making small talk before
they start singing, and and Bowiesays something to the effect of, well,

(01:32:57):
you know, we have a lotof the same traditions that you have.
You know, we we do theChristmas tree and we sing songs with
the And I can't up thinking whenI'm watching this, like, you know,
he's not even on the same planetas his family over the Christmas holidays.
He's off, you know, likedoing cocaine and recording the station to
station around that time. So yeah, I think it's it's kind of an

(01:33:19):
interesting bid for him to seem likea family man in a funny way,
and nothing could be further from thetruth. I mean, he's he is
this weird alien, you know,creature who's singing a song with the pipe
smoking, you know, bing Crosby, the child beating bing Crosby. I
would, I would agree with allof you that that it has some merit.

(01:33:41):
Had the thin white duke showed upat that session. I agree with
you about smacking your children around.We've reached the end of the Bowie road.
We've barely scratched the surface on bowWe're gonna have to come back to
him again. We'll actually talk aboutthe music at some point. Yes,
so we're gonna have to say goodbyeto everybody. But before we do that,
what are our fellow junkies up to? I'm gonna start with you,
Heather, what have you been upto lately? Oh? Goodness? Well,

(01:34:03):
speaking of the weirding Way media,and we mentioned him earlier, our
brother from Another Mother, Christachue,and I recently on culture Cast talked about
Avery Crowns's nineteen eighty three folk horrormasterpiece Eyes of Fire, So definitely give
that a listen. You can alsohear my dulcet tones on an upcoming release

(01:34:25):
of Michael Finlay's proto slasher slash arthouse slash grindhouse masterpiece, The Flesh Trilogy.
I did three audio commentary tracks,one for each film as well.
There's an essay I contributed not rightnext to Lisa Pertrucci, the goddess of
Something Weird Video, and Liz Purchell, who's a great film historian, and

(01:34:46):
she's behind the podcast and project Askanybody, and of course if you follow
me on Patreon, which is alleverything I do is under Epmondo Heather.
I recently did an article about asong I mentioned on our last episode,
which is Genesis Watcher of the Skiesand so yeah, but for you know,

(01:35:06):
enough enough of my shortling, mymy, my, Folo Balloo and
coockery. You could find all ofmy sundrys at linktree dot com, Forward
slash Wondoheather Mister, same question.Well, you can also find me among
the galaxy of stars on the weirdingWay Network. I mainly do the night

(01:35:28):
Mister Walters Taxi podcast with my esteemedbrother in arms Father Alone. I am
an occasional culture cast guest with ChrisDashu and very happy to do that.
You can also find me on aband camp on band camp. I have
a site there. It's a hpmusicplacedot bandcamp dot com. Not a lot

(01:35:49):
up there, but you know what, if you want to just get a
hold of some weird audio stuff,you can go there. I'm hoping to
get more stuff up there soon,but so yeah, that's where you can
How about yourself, follom alone?Where can people hear you? I think
if people want to hear more ofyour stuff, they can hear it on
some of my stuff. Check outmy show Dark Destinations. It's half hour
radio drama that I write and producedat HP does all the incidental music for

(01:36:12):
and main themes for it. Sothere's some fucking great stuff in that.
You can hear that at weirdingwaymedia dotcom as well as midnight viewing. We're
currently looking at rod Serlings, anight gallery. We're actually wrapping it up
pretty soon. All right, ladiesand gentleman, thank you so much for
joining us here at the Noise Junkies. I don't have a sign off or
anything, but we'll catch you nexttime. Bowie, I'll just say Bowie k

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