Episode 2: Infected

HBO's The Last of Us is an adaptation of the award-winning video game from 2013 that allowed the players to explore the infection-ravaged United States while playing as the two leads Joel and Ellie who are tasked with getting Ellie to the safe zone as she may carry the key to their survival.

Join The Kulturecast's Chris Stachiw and Game of Bros' Yashar Pirasteh as they talk all about episode two "Infected". They talk all about yet another cold open, the relationship between Tess and Joel, and what the show is changing to the overall narrative.

For more episodes of Of Mushrooms & Men along with many more podcasts that are guaranteed to be your new favorite audio obsession, check out Weirding Way Media at weirdingwaymedia.com.

Episode Transcript

(00:20):
Hello everyone, and welcome to ofMushrooms and Men, a Last of Us
podcast. I am one of yourhosts, the Culture Cast host Chris dash
You, and I'm joined by mygood friend. She's not gonna be doing
any dragon noises, but there's thereare noises in the show that you could
be doing your own imitation of myfriend and yours the former, I guess
current still host of Game of Bros. How's the Dragon podcast? You're a

(00:41):
friend of mine, you shar I'mgargling some shitaki mushrooms in my throat.
You're gargling mushrooms. It's just gotvery sexual, very fast. I'm just
gargling all these mushrooms, gargling allthese mushrooms. I want. I want
to have a kiss, like amycelium kiss, a mouth to mouth I
celum love like Test Scott, youknow, like just a little a little

(01:03):
peck. And if you're here,we're gonna be talking about the second episode
of HBO's latest adaptation series of apre existing property. Be talking about the
second episode of the Last of UsTV show. That episode is titled Infected.
So the episode is directed by NeilDruckman. Yes, Neil Druckman the
creator of one of the co creatorsof the video game, and it is

(01:23):
written once again by Craig Mazin,who we have talked about before. This
episode is once again all about Joeland Tess and Ellie. Well what are
they doing. They're making their waythrough the ques out of the Quzi towards
something, towards the people that we'resupposed yet supposed they're taking Ellie to the

(01:44):
people that they're supposed to take hertoo. I'm not gonna lie to you.
This was kind of a bummer ofan episode because I really was a
tad disappointed, felt like it kindof didn't do And I know why this
episode was the way that it was, but not A lot happen like in
a in a rather surprising way givenhow much I get given the speed of

(02:05):
which everything happened in the first episode, does that make sense? Yeah,
I mean, well, the firstepisode really ramps up a lot. And
this episode is also actually quite closeto the game, like like the story
the major story beats, it's almostidentical, like Tests dies early in the
game, and it's less about likethe plot moving and I think about it's
quite important to understand why Joel continuesbecause it's basically in her honor because at

(02:30):
this point he still closed off fromthe rest of the world. And I
think this helps us see that,like like it can't all be in vain,
I guess, and that keeps Joegoing. Yeah. So, like
the episode, you know, startsoff with them leaving the q Z.
You see them finally see a clicker, which is essentially an infected that's been
infected for like years and it's notjust like your angry person and through that

(02:54):
test gets bitten and basically puts uhlike I know, Hurrah to protect Joel
and Ellie and give them a clearescape and continue their journey westward, when
you know, the other fireflies haveall been infected and died, so that
the entire episode almost others the expening. That's the entire episode. And yes,

(03:15):
and then the opening was interesting tome because I don't know if they're
doing these cold opens every episode,but I hope they do, because these
cold opens are well And you knowwhat this for me is the influence of
Craig Mason, almost like explicitly,because you know what it feels like,
and I know you're gonna agree.It feels like Chernobyl being injected into this

(03:35):
show in a lot of ways.The best parts of Chernobyl for me,
at least the parts of Chernobyl thatI appreciate, the kind of investigative like
what's going on. We don't knowwhat's going on, but we're we the
audience know what's going on, butthe people in the world don't, and
seeing them come to that realization,I think for me is very interesting.
No, it was interesting because,like, like I don't know how you

(03:55):
felt about it, but in thein the Games, it's taken like generally
pretty America concentric stance, and soit was cool to see like how this
impacted outside of the scope of whatwe've interact with as players or consumers of
even the last first episode. Andthe interesting thing was, I don't even
know if it's ever been stated thatlike they basically bombed all the cities,
like the cities are all fucked up, but I just always assumed in the

(04:18):
Games it's because I don't know,society has collapsed. But that was like,
really, it puts into context whyall the cities are so fucked basically
in the Games, and like thebuildings are collapsing and things like that and
when like that woman the doctor,she's just like the Indonesian lady is just
like bomb at all, like youjust felt, and she was just like

(04:39):
she just resigned herself and a lotof other people to die because that was
the only way she knew how tostop this thing, which you know,
we have no cure for. Andit was really impactful, like and even
in that short amount of time,you felt like almost like an emotional connection
with her. And well, it'slike it's one of those things where this
woman is just having a normal andthat's and that is the thing that I

(05:00):
appreciate, and you kind of seeit. It's it's echoed here as it
was in the first episode. You'rejust going about your day and then all
of a sudden the world is different. And you see that with Joel and
his daughter in the first episode,where you know that seemingly just a normal
day, you know, going towork, going to school, whatever,
come home, and then the worldgoes to shit. Same thing here.

(05:21):
This woman is just you know,having lunch with some friends and all of
a sudden, this uh, thismilitary officer shows up and says, hey,
I need you to look at thisthing, and you know, it's
it's world changing, like you said, and when she says just bomb the
city, it's like, oh mygod, Like this is I mean,
it puts into perspective the stakes here. But also and then this is just

(05:43):
me like this needs to feel alittle less like just zombies. And some
of this feels a little too justzombie ish for me because the story,
the story of Last of Us neverthe game. The amount that I played
the first two and a half hours, it did kind of feel like a
zombie game, right, And Iwas worried with this show, as I
know you were kind of concerned,like is this show going to do enough

(06:04):
to justify its existence and also notjust be a zombie adjacent show? And
I think it is, but it'salso doing some things that are I guess,
giving people that wouldn't have any otherframe of reference some frame of reference.
I just don't need it. Iunderstand that other people do, but
me personally, I don't. Butthe people that do are. I'm going

(06:25):
to go out and the live andsay it's probably people that have no prior
exposure to the source material. Butdid you not find it a bit like
tragic that not only did you saybombit, but we also know like it
didn't work well. But that's Imean, that's the thing that I appreciate
about post apocalyptic fiction is that thebest intentions of people normally fall short.

(06:45):
And I love that because, yeah, you know, again it just goes
I think it just shows the kindof the fatalistic nature of nature, right,
like nature doesn't give a shit,Nature gives no fucks, frankly,
to the point where again, Idon't you know, they make some change
in the narrative to the way thatthe clickers and the fungal infection works because
in the game, it's not explicitthat like stepping on a fungus alert that's

(07:11):
a fungus right. Yeah. SoI actually listened to they have a like
an official Last of Us podcast orthey interview. Have you listened to that
one? I watched they talk aboutit in the after the show as well.
Okay, okay, so yeah,I'm sure that actually probably just take
it. So Craig Mazon and it'sCraig Mazon and Neil Drugman talking to Troy
Baker, who plays Joel in thegame, and they said, like,

(07:31):
that was I think Craig Mason's ideaand Neil Drugman was like, you know,
we didn't even think about it,and he's like, can totally makes
sense, Like this is a they'reall kind of connected, and it does
up the stakes because it's not likeyou can't just kill one and move on,
like if they're all or I mean, they're not everyone, they're not
connected everyone, but like in certainareas they're they're connected. You have to
be very careful and and it definitelylike these little flourishes I think raise the

(07:57):
stakes but also give you a littlebit more to think about as far as
the infection goes, even if you'refamiliar with the source material. And I
really appreciate it, like they're nottrying to reinvent the wheel on any of
this stuff. But I feel thatall of the auditions, like the cold
opens and the Affected being more oflike a high of mind, these little
changes and tweaks have made it amore compelling vision. And I think going

(08:18):
from driving the story playing a gameto a passenger like it is, it's
just a different experience, and Ithink it's one that it's working in the
context of the show. And Iknow that you felt bored because yeah,
maybe a lot didn't happen. AndI hesitant to use word filler because part
of me is like, this iswhat happened in the game. But yes,
relative to the last episode, whichis also like thirty minutes longer,

(08:39):
not as much happens. But Ialso think the first episode is probably not
a fair barometer of how much storyto expect no I to consume in every
episode. I agree with you there. I mean again, I wasn't bored
inasmuch as it felt very much likea video game in a lot of ways.
That they're in this building. They'rein this building for half of the
episode and then out of the building, and there was a cut scene at

(09:01):
the end. Again, that's thesource material. That's the influence of the
source material. That's the way thesource materials told the story. Because I
did get this far in the game, I mean I got I got effectively,
I think to where we're going tobe, where we end here,
I think is where I got inthe game. And like you said,
the difference between driving it and beinga passenger are apparent, and it's even

(09:22):
apparent in the way that they addresskind of the clickers because in the game.
In the game, one clicker isa threat right, you can die
to just one clicker. This isnot uncharted where where you know it takes
several people to take down, youknow, Nathan Drake in the game,
you die from one, right Like, it's pretty pretty easy to the point

(09:43):
where you need to be. It'sDark Soul's esque in a way. Right
Like, there's very little room forerror if you get if you get into
a fight with someone, you needto kill them because you're going to die
otherwise. Yeah, I mean,because you have the regular effected which you
can usually take, like you know, you can kind of fight a bit,
but a clicker. If they getyou and you have no weapon,
you're in the game, your toastlike it's showing you they're a much more

(10:05):
powerful version, but obviously the tradeoffs. They no longer have their vision,
so you can sneak by them,which I think they showed effectively.
And I like that they used practicaleffects and they use like real actors making
the fucking weird moves, and Imean that she was creepy look good.
I was gonna say, like,you know again, I think that there
is no way they could have donethis show up close digitally and it be

(10:26):
convincing. I just don't. Imean, again, as good as The
House of the Dragon has been,I just don't think that clickers up Close
CGI would have worked the practical effects. Again, again, I think that
this is going to be echoed alot in this show. Like they have
a really good starting point. Ifyou have a really good script to work
off of your movie, unless youreally fuck it up, it's going to

(10:48):
be pretty solid, you know whatI mean. Like that's something like the
game. Here is the script thatthe show is working from, and so
the design of the creatures is moreor less the same as it is in
the show. Like and again withgraphics as good as they are on the
PS three and the PS four andnow the PS five, because given this
is a three generational game at thispoint, you know, it looks like

(11:09):
the game, which I appreciate didn'tThey didn't need to do more than just
be the game. That's the thing. Like, and again, I'm struggling
really hard with this because I wastalking with some people over the weekend and
they were like, should I watchthis show? And I was like,
well, do you like zombie shows? And they're like, damn, kind
of soft on zombie shows? Anddo you like post apocalyptic stuff. Man,
I'm kind of yeah, I'm softon post apocalyptic stuff. And it's

(11:31):
like, well, then this show'snot going to be for you. And
like, because I'm waiting for themto give me more of Joel and Ellie,
you know, because like that isthe core of this show. It
is not about the clickers and everythingelse. It's about them, right,
And you know that, and Iknow that, And I'm waiting for the
show to get to the point,and I think the next episode more or
less we're going to be there.But the core of the game is Joel

(11:54):
and Ellie and their interaction and theirinteractions with one another, playing off of
one another and playing off the othercharacters in the world. And You're right,
Tess, and Joel and Ellie anytimethey're doing anything together on screen interacting
is really good. It's really compellingbecause shockingly anatur of Pedro, Pascal and
Bella Ramsey are all fantastic actors.But the other stuff does just kind of

(12:18):
feel like the video game, youknow what I mean. Like I'm I
don't know, like I get whythis show exists, but at the same
time, you know what I mean, it's it's going to be a hard
podcast to do in a hard showto talk about because the video game is
so good. It's not like thevideo game is bad, so like they
said, well, this is agood idea, but it's poorly executed.
There it's a good video game that'salmost so good it is a movie.

(12:39):
Like I'm still struggling. I'm stillstruggling a little bit. You're all in
on the first stepisode, I know, and I'm still all in. It's
just I'm struggling because I don't know. Something is just something is rubbing me
the wrong way. I don't knowwhat it is. You feel like something's
been tour of out of your heart. Wow. I really like Annaturv.
I wish she was in more.Yeah, she's great. So it's the

(13:01):
I feel like that the trio ofthem is interesting because it's like Joel,
we know he's like super closed offsince his daughter died and he's had to
do a bunch of like just reallyfucked up things to survive. And um
Tests is similar, but you cansee that like there's there is there is
more of a softness and you know, more of an optimist, like she's
like even if Bella Ellie Ellie's notyou know, the solution. She gets

(13:24):
us what we want and like that'ssomething that's worth fighting for. And she
kind of softens Joel enough to wherehe's for the first time I think in
a long time, willing to letsomeone in rum And I think we're going
to see that piece by piece bypiece, Like that's obviously where the show's
heading towards. So we haven't seenthat at all from him, Like he's

(13:46):
just he's he's like, I'm hereto do a job basically, And I
think test is sacrifice at the endof the episode is really gonna is what's
gonna flip that switch in him.And so to your point, like if
you want to see that, Ithink, yeah, from now on,
we're going to be seeing a lotof that, because I mean, that
has to happen, right because otherwisethe story like doesn't make sense in her
sacrifice is in vain, and wesee like Joel early on is like Rudy

(14:09):
ready to just kill Ellie and hedoesn't really believe that she's immune, even
though like he sees the evidence andhe's just not willing to be okay with
that honestly, And this is thisis going to sound really terrible, but
I kind of just would like I'dlike to see the last of Us world
without seeing Joel and Ellie and justsee all the other stuff, like a

(14:30):
show that's just the stuff that wesee it. Like, here's the problem.
Keep watching, you will get yourspinoffs. You will get your spinoffs
if we get in a few ers, I promise last week. I know,
but like that's the thing, I'lltell you. Like, the most
compelling stuff in this show so farhas been the stuff with John Hannah,
and has been the stuff at thebeginning of this episode, because it's stuff
we've never seen before. Like youagain, I know the narrative enough to

(14:54):
know where this is going. I'venever seen any of this additional stuff.
It's so interesting and weird to seebecause like you could do a whole show,
a whole season about what was happeningin this like lour factory in Jakarta
and Indonesian the people that are aboutto have their lives, you know,
torn apart by I guess them bombingthe city. Like yeah, I really

(15:18):
like the world that they've created,and I understand that this is a very
small corner of the world that we'rein. And like you said, yeah,
if this is successful, who knowswhat else will get. But they've
almost done too good of a jobof giving me the world outside of the
world that we're in. And Iwant to see everything that happened, and
not that I care about how thingshappen, because I, like you said,
everything was a failure. We seethat now the cities are destroyed,

(15:41):
they're bombed out, people are turnedinto mushroom people whatever. But that story,
for whatever reason, that's compelling tome, and I want to see
more of that because like for me, that's just that it's Chernobyl with a
different kind of threat. Yeah,have you seen the show Station eleven.
I think you would like that becausethat actually goes a lot of back and
forth. It's about like a pandemic, not zombies, but like an infectious

(16:04):
disease, and like you go backand forth between a twenty year timeline and
you see like how society collapsed andyou see like the present day, which
it's not great less fucked up inthe Last of Us, but it's not
a great situation. I actually thinkyou'd really like that show, and like
it has one of the most beautifulfinales I've ever seen. So it's also
an HBO show station eleven so,so check it out if you get a
chance. If the first episode Ithink is pretty like gets you all in

(16:27):
like some of the last of us. So but do you do you see
where I'm coming from, though,Like it is so good and compelling,
and like I'm I'm not going toblame Craig Mason for being good at what
he does, because he's very goodat what he does, seemingly like not
going to say like one thing,but definitely like a kind of thing he
is very good at. He's goodwith that, like the I think that

(16:48):
like almost the dissecting of like abureaucracy, right, Like he takes this
thing that's like these things that historicallyseem almost impenetrable, like the people on
top know all the answers. Thenhe shows us actually, let's spend a
little bit more time with him,and they're just like us. They don't
know what the fuck they're doing.They're scared, um, they're lost,
and these are the people that aremaking huge decisions and we and like Turnoble

(17:12):
was all about that, right,and this got us a little bit more
into that. And now I thinkhe's trying to get with like the Joel
Leanelli a bit more into the humanaspect of it. But yeah, I
can see why why that's interesting.Speaking of policy, did you notice how
this post apocalyptic world has a slightlystricter gun regulations than the current USA.

(17:34):
They would not let a fourteen yearold Ellie have a gun, which I
don't a bystand, Yeah, butI just want to. I was like,
dude, I'm pretty sure it's easierfor a fortune old to get a
gun like at Walmart right now.Well, I don't understand why they wouldn't
let her have a gun, LikeI'm sorry, guys, but like and
and and the thing is, likethe threat in the in the show,

(17:55):
I think does do a good jobat like meeting what the threat is in
the video game, Like they onlyrun into two clickers, that's it,
Like and you see, like that'senough to fuck things up. I mean
that's enough to get both Tess andEllie bit again Like yeah, yeah,
I appreciate that the show is doinga very good job of showing us kind
of the immediacy of the threat andthe scope of the threat. You know,

(18:18):
the shot of the mushrooms all kindof waking up together, I think
is a really compelling thing because itleads us into an interesting direction with the
show, which is, you know, there is a threat the court aceps
and there is a cure or someonewho is who is not able to be
infected with Ellie. I wonder ifthe show will actually have an ending,

(18:40):
like because like I'm wondering if thereason they've made some of these changes is
to give themselves like a viable wayto end the show, because that's the
thing. Video game doesn't have anending yet, right, well, well
the first game until it does.Right, the first game has an ending.
I hated the ending, but Ithink not to get as supposed,
but I do think, like lookingback at it, like I hated it,

(19:03):
but I think it I hated itbecause it was actually quite well written
and I'm interested to see if ifthey follow that. I guess as they
will. But but but like introducingsomething that's a singular thing that can that
is controlling everything is a little nightKing esque is more what I'm getting.
Well, but I don't. Ididn't get that. It's like one it's
I know, but I know,but you know what it's like section I

(19:23):
know, but you know what Imean, Like, even even if it's
sectional, it still gives the riderskind of an out if they want to
have a way to destroy the threat. Yeah, I see what you're saying,
Like I see, like, oh, this is the alpha part of
steps or whatever. Right, Imean what I mean again, I don't
think they're going there. But again, like yeah, well, at the
same time, like they've already setthey've already planted those seeds no pun intended.

(19:47):
Yeah, Um, they've you know, kissed us gently with their tentacles.
Okay, let's talk about that littlecorny, little kind of cheesy right,
Like I get it, but souh speaking of Neil drugment. So
I listened to them talk about thatkiss, and his point was at that
point point Test had essentially submitted herself. She wasn't fighting back, So it

(20:08):
was like almost saying, I don'tneed to be aggressive to you. I'm
just gonna like give it to you. I mean, she's trying to light
a lighter to blow the all up. Yeah. I think it probably was
a bit for like shock value,like this is weird and discount like very
like gross. It's like celium stickingout of the thigh's mouth. Like it's

(20:30):
nasty, like gross, it's notbeing shown because it's pleasant to look at.
But yeah, correct me if I'mwrong. In the game, they
have what tentacles, right, theydon't have to my celium coming out of
their mouth? Then cum doesn't comeout of the mouth. No, that's
more of like a new thing.I think they just bite you. Um,
but they the mycelium out of themouth is quite gross and they got
some good mileage out of it.Also, the opening nicold open too,

(20:52):
and the woman opens the where she'swith the autopsy on the infected person.
Man, what a what a likehorrifying thing for that doctor to walk into
that room and there's just like amushroom person sitting on a How does how
does like the casting go for this? It's like, Yo, you want
to just be like a naked,dead mushroom person? Yeah, you're like,

(21:14):
yeah, they're snacks. I'm inwhat's the sagmentium? Yeah? Just
do I get healthcare? Um?I wonder And you know what I wonder,
I wonder if they're gonna do thesecold opens every episode. I kind
of feel like they're going to,right, Yeah, not the first the
first episode, I was like,oh, they're just trying to you know,
switch it up, you know,set the scene. Yeah, set
the scene. And now I seethis, I'm like, maybe we will,

(21:36):
maybe not every episode, but Ifeel confident in saying it's probably the
last cold open we're getting. Yeah. I think it's like especially like it
kind of sets the place, likewe were out in the world where it
was quite just destroyed and Ellie talksabout the bombs and stuff, and so
this sets the context for that.So you see it, it's probably gonna

(21:56):
be loosely connected to something that's occurringwithin the episode, and that what I
was gonna say, like it kindof it kind of is reflective of the
themes of the episode with you know, like let's just again because Annatoora by
the end of the episode is burningeverything down to give them an opportunity to
leave. I mean, she's burningJoel's old life away herself, including to
give him an opportunity. And likeyou said, that's effectively what they do.

(22:18):
Again, I don't bombing the citiesis not like that's not effective either,
Like I mean, I get it, but as the thing, like
I think to your point, likeI do really like that the show doesn't
stray away from showing like and kindof has already shown like this breakdown in
the bureaucracy and societal kind of likethe societal way we live, and like,

(22:41):
I like that it is no problemshowing it. I wish it had
shown more of it. I kindof wish it had given us more time
in the cuz, I mean,I know in the game they spend a
little bit of time in the cuzit's not just like five minutes and you're
out. You're you're hanging around therefor like an hour. I mean there's
again I know that this isn't thatstory, but because because it's not that
story and they have to get towhere they're going, it feels like some

(23:03):
opportunities to maybe flesh out the worlda little bit more are kind of getting
ignored. And I get why they'regetting ignored. The story between Ellie and
Joel is compelling, but I mean, you have this opportunity and you have
a real you have the world thatyou the sandbox that you can play,
and it's it's kind of too badthat it's just this one corner that we're
being stuck in. But like it'sstill a pretty interesting corner. No,

(23:26):
I think it makes sense, likeyou want to see more of well almost
like how the sausage is made foreveryone, whereas like that's not really what
at least the last of this isabout. It's about the relationship these two
people, these like well one fundamentallybroken person and one person who I want
to remind you has never seen theworld before, like she was raised in
this dystopia. Yeah yeah, welllike and in like ACCUSI in a and

(23:52):
issues also in the orphanage. Andthey kind of hint at the DLC,
which when they ask her, likeyou know who she in the all with
it, like that's that's that's fromthe DLC, right, Definitely, I
kind of think we're gonna get anepisode that is about that. That's that's
my theory. I mean, Idon't know how they couldn't given that that
ends up like amending a lot ofthe character in the DLC. Like it,

(24:14):
not that it amended amends it,but it like fleshes her out in
a way that changes her a littlebit, puts into contact what she was
doing in the in the first game, you find you find out like how
she got bitten in her relationship ina bit more about her and you kind
of I mean, you know whenshe asked, oh, your boyfriend,
like like there's little hints, there'slittle hints to it. It's for the
fans and the players of the game. But they're gonna have to address it

(24:37):
in the show. Yeah, yeah, And and like rich is weird,
right because like most of the timethat's just like wink wink, nod nod
type thing, but like this islike it is a wink wink and a
nod not if you know, butlike they are going to have to address
it because it's a bit it's thesecond biggest part of her character, behind
her interactions with Joel. Yeah,I mean, and we learn more about
like and it informs a lot ofher decisions in the second game, which

(25:02):
would be I guess season two.So maybe again you know, I don't
even know, because again, likethe second game is its own can of
worms, right, like yeah,I mean the second Yeah, but the
Neil Druckman has said, like thefirst season is gonna be the first games,
and right, but what is thesecond season? But is the second
season its own because again, there'splenty of time in between the first and

(25:26):
second game where Joel and Elliot aredoing whatever the fuck. I mean,
that's the thing. That's That's whatI'm getting at here. It's like,
while I appreciate that the video gamedoes exist and the video game has set
the story and the boundaries for thestory, we don't need to hear identical
to the game. I appreciate thatpeople want that, but like, these
characters are fully formed, well flashedout, fully realized. You can put

(25:49):
them into any situation as long asit's believable within this universe, and I
think it would be entertaining. AndI'm not sure that the video game players
are gonna get all bent out ofshape because again, they're gonna be seeing
something they haven't seen before and theydidn't get to interact with. I kind
of think there's a dand if youdo dand if you don't like, yeah,
I know that the problem, right. I actually think if they like
straight too far, people be like, oh, like, you know,

(26:11):
why didn't you let Test die andsacrifice herself and why she's still alive.
I think they need to follow thebig beats, but I don't think they
need to follow the big beats andthe small beats and the minute beats as
well, and they're not. Imean again, we're getting we're getting opening
intro cold opens that are never inthe game. Frankly, the game could

(26:32):
have benefited from having the cold openthat the last episode did at the beginning
of the game. You could totallyimagine that being in the video game,
Like but you know the way,and you know it's like, oh and
well, careful if it'll happen,and then cut to the music and the
last of it was like there yougo. I don't know, it's just
like, like you said, they'redamned if they don't do it, and
they're damned if they do to dodo it too closely, Like it's a

(26:55):
fine line they're having to tread here, but they just they also did do
the thing where like they not completely, but they've changed a pretty substantial fact
that like how the infected work.Right, So there's there's little changes that
I think can pay off later on. And we're still really early in the

(27:15):
story. Um, and I'm interestedto see, like I actually don't really
feel like I understand Ellie a lot, Like she's like a sarcastic smartass and
she's pretty brave. Um, butI'm not sure if I buy her yet
right to be honest, I'm I'mwith you. I think Bella Ramsey's performance
has been okay. I don't thinkI've loved it, but I think we're

(27:38):
going to get a lot more ofher, and I'm part of me,
like there's probably things she's almost tryingtoo hard and not her herself, but
like the dialogue and the way sheinteracts them is like she's always just trying
to be like the funniest, mostsarcastic person. Cute, c Yeah,
and I wonder, like I said, that kind of goes back to my
point on her growing up in this, like she's never really seen normalcy,

(27:59):
so maybe it's how she copes,like when she's making fun of the clickers
and they're just like stop, likedon't even like joke like that. You
know, it's an interesting dynamic andone I'm willing to see more of.
I just I haven't been completely enrapturedby her character. I'm with you,
and you know what I don't.I actually don't think now that we've seen
kind of more of her and actuallyher opportunity to interact with Pedro Pascal,

(28:23):
I think Bella Ramsey's fine. Youknow, she just I feel bad for
her as an actress because she's nineteen, but she looks like she's ten.
Well supposed to be fourteen, Iknow, but she's nineteen. Like she
doesn't look nineteen either. I'm notsure she looks fourteen, but you know,
I feel like the character of Ellieis such a weird thing to approach

(28:44):
anyways, because like it's we don'tknow enough about her in the show yet
to really even have an operiod,right, Like we need an Ellie episode,
and the DLC feels like a primething where they could just have an
entire episode being flash back to thatand talking about that entire relationship that she
has and all that, Like thatall is going to be an episode,

(29:07):
right, Like, there's no waythat it's not. Yeah, I think
that it's probably is, like myguess is close to later season, but
but yeah, and you know,now that there's no more tests, it's
basically just going to be her andJoel and then generally people that don't want
the or things that don't want thebest for them. And with the introduction
of that, like the hive mindtype of thing, I wonder if that's

(29:30):
going to be a reason why theyavoid a lot more firefights. Like we're
in a video game, A lotof times you do go even guns first
because it's just like I want toshoot shit, right, But now that
we know that any type of offensiveaction they take can be not just the
immediate clickers or interfected, but canactually alert others, I think we're going
to see them generally take the stealthyapproach, which means that it's probably not

(29:52):
going to be super action focused,is my guess, right, which you
know, I mean theoretically the kindof canonical way you would play the game,
and the only way, the onlyway you can play the game.
You can't run and gun in thegame. It's not a running gun.
You can run a gun. There'sdefinitely parts where you could run a gun
or sneak, but yeah, thegame overall kind of nudges you to be

(30:14):
because you have limited ammo, likeyour items break after like three swings.
Right, it's a game about scarcity, right, so they're not having full
on firefights, and actually the areaswhere you have are more likely have firefights
are like when you're actually fighting likepeople, right, you know, marauders
or whomever ruch. We will clearlysee at some point in this show obviously,

(30:37):
Yeah, we haven't really seen badpeople like we've seen like, you
know, Joel's like a scoundrel andtests and you know, even the guy
that cannap tests like. But wehaven't seen like truly like monstrous people yet.
Is j is Joel? And that'sthe thing, though, is Joel
a scoundrel? Like again, likethey paint it's this, it's really it's
really weak, right, Like theydon't want to make him actually a bad

(30:59):
guy, and I think in thevideo game it's more shades of gray.
Right now, it's like it's justPedro Pascal and he's too lovable to hate,
even if even if he's being themost dastardly bad guy he can be,
which I'm not sure he has beenyet. In his career, he
always plays characters that everybody finds areason or way. Oprah in Martel Wonder
Woman nineteen eighty four. I didn'tsee that movie because it's bad, and

(31:23):
you know what's bad. It's bad. It's bad. But his performance is
like kind of insane, sure,but like okay, so his one thing,
but he's still people you like himbecause it's still he's lovable, because
he's Pedro Pascal. That's the thing, Like I kind of feel like,
again, I'll go back to whatI said before, like they should have
cast somebody else, because he's justtoo damn likable for me to ever not

(31:45):
just implicitly like him, even ifit's like you said, he at the
first episode he takes a child's bodyand he sets it in a fire.
Yeah, but like, yeah,he didn't murder like a cop. The
cop was pointing a gun at him, was going to shoot him. It's
the dystopia baby. I will say, if it's going to be interesting to

(32:06):
see, like your reaction to howthe season ends, if they go to
like making him more likable, becausein the game he does get quite likable
as well, right, which ashe kind of should, right I guess,
which I think makes it more jarring. So so just I'd say,
just hold on to that feeling ofyou're struggling to hate him or feel like

(32:27):
any negative. I'm feeling like theshow is meaning to make us not like
him, and it just it nomatter what it does, it really can't
because it's Pedro Pascal, That's whatI'm saying. I mean, yeah,
I mean he was also willing toshoot Ellie and Tessa is like, yo,
chill, you know, how muchdo you actually believe he's going to
do it? Though, well,he will in the context of if Tessa

(32:47):
wasn't there, he would have.But I guess us knowing enough about like
this and the show, there's there'sno real stakes there because obviously he has
to deliver Baby Yoda grow group.I mean, yeah, the mushroom,
the Mushroom Malorian. Dude. Iwas joking about that earlier with a friend
of mine. He's like, howis the last of us? And I
was like, I mean at thispoint, it's kind of the Mandalorian like

(33:10):
with Bella Ramsey in place of groguLike, you need to take this one
really important person across tattooing, acrossthe United States, across whatever. And
it's like all right, and sothe you know, the wolf and cub,
I mean, any any journeying acrossthe waste land story, you know,
a boy and his dog. Likethere you go, like it's not

(33:31):
anything new, your guy with asketchy past who doesn't play by the rules.
The last thing you want is akid with you exactly, But you
know what, they just stole yourheart you're gonna do whatever you can to
protect them, including, but notlimited to sacrificing yourself, sacrificing your livelihood,
or sacrificing parts of your body.Like it's you know what I mean,

(33:51):
Like, but that's the thing.Like, the narrative of the story
is not anything particularly unique. It'stwo people going across the United States un
kind of a cross entry journey,but it's the trappings, right, and
I don't know, like the road, Yeah, don't compare this to the
road, please. It's so muchthat this wishes it could be half as
good as anything Core mckmccarthy has everwritten. Okay, like as good as

(34:15):
Frank Mason and Neil Druckman are that. But that's what I but that is
exactly what I fucking mean. Thisshould have been that, this should have
been like that, because that's whatthe game's promise is. That's what the
game's letting you do in a lotof ways, is act out your most

(34:36):
brutal, fatalistic ways of dealing withthings. It's putting you in this position
and saying, would you do whatit takes to survive when the options to
survive are pushing you to your breakingpoint and the question is are we going
to see that in this show oris the show going or is the show
going to stray away from doing that, because that's not particularly palatable. It's

(34:58):
more palatable, I feel like forpeople who video games, it is for
people who consume film media. Yeah, but I still think it's too early.
And and the to what you weresaying about him being too like,
well, he also really hasn't interact. We haven't interactive thing one outside.
He's not gonna kill Ellie, He'snot gonna kill tests, right, like,
so we haven't really seen him bethreatened by a human yet, right
yet, well other than the copthat he killed. Yeah, and so

(35:21):
yeah, yeah, so the endof one we have is things don't go
so well. So I think thatit seems like you want a bit more
of like a gruffness, like alike a lived in like this is this
is a this is this is ahard way to live and survive and you
have to do whatever you can toget by. I wanted to believe that
we came back to I want tofeel like we came back to Joel after
the time jump, and he hadspent twenty years finding every reason to kill

(35:46):
himself, but not because he's becausehe can't bring himself to do it or
whatever guilt he feels. And honestly, when we came back to him in
the first episode, it felt likenothing had happened and he had not done
anything for twenty years and he wasthe same character. I don't think he's
the same at all. He went, it's just dude, it was he
went from this guy that was likebroke in too. He's just like,
it's just the fucking kid's body andthe van I'll throw it like he's he's

(36:08):
completely closed himself off to feeling like, just don't I'm not getting that sense
from the performance. I'm personally not. I don't know, like I don't
know. Like again, like II I said it, I've said it
now several times, like Pedro Pascalfor me, I like him, but
I just think like maybe someone elsecould have been that role, even someone

(36:30):
like Vego more tensent, more moretense. And then then I winked at
YouTube everybody, Yeah, yeah,Chris. Chris winked to me. That's
that's how you know he's a goodpodcast. He only just does like facial
expression, but it's only for yourBene, it's only for your benefit.
Yeah, look, look, Ilike I like Pedro Pascal. I think
he's a very charismatic actor. Youlike Pedro Pascal. I didn't get that,

(36:52):
But I just don't like him inthis I'm sorry. So maybe by
the end of the season, I'llit'll have come around. But I feel
like Troy Baker in the game andwhat he brings to the role, even
though it is just voice and mocap, because I mean, I spent
the last week going and watching clipsfrom the game of that performance, and
just I don't know. Maybe we'llget there by the end of the season,

(37:14):
but he does his character doesn't feelas lived in as he does in
the game. It just doesn't.He doesn't feel as lived in a character.
Like I said, it feels likewhen we come back in twenty twenty
three, Joel, we're just backwith him. There wasn't twenty years of
anguish and turmoil. It's just herehe is again. And with the story
like this where it's all about thetoll that this takes on you and the

(37:36):
toll that it takes on your mentalabilities or whatever, I just I wanted
more of that, and again,like this show is not worried about showing
you action. It is showing uscharacter interactions almost his entire episode. There's
no action in this show. Therereally hasn't been yet, and I'm okay
with Well, yeah, the closestthing to action was probably the clicker sequence.

(37:58):
It's like it's on any other theirshow, and that's not an action
scene like here. It's as closeas this show it has gotten so far.
But I would contend that that's probablygonna have to go further than this
at some point, right, Yeah, but it's never gonna go like full
on walking Dead. Like I said, I could see it with some of
the human elements potentially getting it.I don't think we're going to see him

(38:21):
just like icing or anything like that, right, And that's what I mean.
So it's like the scope of thisstory again, Like I like that
the scope of this story is smallerthan a zombie story, but there is
still a destroyed world outside of it. Well, it's smaller in the context
of you know, he's not killingjust swas and swaths of zombies, but

(38:42):
the stakes are still big, Likeshe has the potential cure to this thing
that has ravaged society, and likethe only way to survive is in these
not great, you know, governmentrun zones. And she's she's the way
out. She is what the firefliesyou're looking forward to say, Hey,
you don't need to be oppressed byfeder And she is the hope that Test,
you know, was willing to sacrificeher life for she Test was bitten,

(39:05):
but she also was like, thisgirl is a way out because Jolian
says, let's go home, andwhat does Tests say? She's like,
that's not my home, even thoughthey've been there for like twenty years or
however long. Like Test, Joelis resigned to an existence in where he
lives out his days in the qZ and dies like he there is a
reality right now that he does that, you know, as long as his
brother's okay. Tests like she doesit because she has to. She doesn't

(39:29):
like it, like she wants tofeel something and feel hope again. And
I think that we're going to seeit that rubs off on Joel, and
I think her sacrifice is going toensure that at least takes his task with
Ellie much more seriously and it's nolonger about getting the car battery to give
his brother. I mean that's important, but it's really about taking this girl

(39:50):
who her safety was the last wishof his essentially like lover best friend.
I know it wasn't explicitly stated,but in the game and in this it
was implied that, if not atthe current moment, they were romantic at
some point. So yeah, Ithink it's gonna make Joel a bit more
human. But it sounds like yourissue is you think he's too human already.
Well, I just I want tosee again like I like Pedro Pascal,

(40:14):
and I'll keep saying I like hima lot. It's just I have
a hard time rooting against him becausehe's so goddamn charismatic and so charming and
so likable, and I have ahard time saying, oh, he's a
tortured soul, even if he's doinghis best to convey that he's. It's
just again, we'll see. Ithink the show has six seven more episodes
left. We have seen nothing ofthe show as far as I'm concerned.

(40:37):
Well, won't even remember these episodesby the end of the series. By
the end of the first season,we'll probably Oh, remember when John Hannah
was on the show? Oh,yeah, that was fun, But you
know, this show still has somuch ground to cover. It has Nick
Offerman in the wings and has allkinds of stuff. The next episode is
from an episode Yeah, so likeit. It has so far to go

(40:59):
that I'm again, these are likeminor complaints early on, but wouldn't be
sitting here and talking about the showif I didn't voice some of my concerns
because again, something like House ofthe Dragon it had those concerns all the
way. We mentioned the flash forwardsbeing an issue, and they were an
issue up until the end of thatseason. They totally were. We talked
about him in the first episode,we talked about him in the last episode,

(41:21):
because they fucked up the narrative structureof that show. My only concern
right now is kind of the waythe characters are being characterized. I think
the show it's moving at a slowpace, but okay, I think it
needs to in a way like Ithink it really I think people really need
to understand the world that they're inand how different it is from a zombie,
a typical zombie kind of narrative,because it's not a zombie narrative and

(41:45):
people shouldn't be saying, oh,this is a zombie show because it's not
a zombie show. Are you sayingPedro Pascal's expressiveness is better than Mandalorian.
You liked his facial expression. Ohyeah, he's so much better here.
This is a much more intensive rolefor him. He doesn't he is not
just his body the entire time.I was at least. Yeah, I
think he shows up to the set, man Elandalorian. What a gig.
I'm sure he gets paid bookoo moneyfor you know, for his voice for

(42:07):
a week. Yeah, unreal.I mean to be fair, that show,
really, that show is good,but that show would not be nearly
as big of a deal without BabyYoda. His his He's fine, but
Baby Yoda is the reason anybody isever going to remember that show, because
there was a whole summer where itwas just the summer of Baby Yoda is

(42:28):
what it felt like, and everythingwas brog Yeah. Yeah, but like
you know, I wonder what Iguess I'm kind of curious as to what
Pedro Pascal, what he triggered inthe writers of the of the show,
Like what was it that they sawin him? So I think his vulnerability
and like like you said, there'salmost like a hidden I don't say gentleness,

(42:52):
but like, right, there's there'sthis oh yeah, I could trust
this guy, right, And Ithink and I almost think you're coming at
it like you're supposed to just likehim. I don't think you're supposed to
just like him, No, Iknow that, but I think the show
wants us to think that he's alittle bit more complicated a character than he
actually is. That's what I'm gettingat the show is just like he's so
troubled and it's like I guess,but he's just you know, quiet and

(43:15):
fatalistic in a world where being fatalisticis what keeps you alive. Like,
yeah, he wants to kill Ellie, but at the same time, yeah,
makes sense, like he's only gottenthis foreign life by not doing shit
like this, right, Like,like you said, he's content to just
live out the next thirty years ofhis life in the QZ, so you

(43:36):
know, oh yeah, just killher and move on. Like like you
said, what's the point when thereis when there? What's the point when
there is seemingly no hope? Andhe even says at one point when he
when she gets bitten again, becausehe thinks, oh shit, maybe this
will turner He's like, let's justgo back to the QZ. This is
this is just not working to task, and she's like, well, they'll
kill her, you know if we'retaking back like better than them than us,

(43:57):
And like it also shows where hismind's like he doesn't think there is
enough where he just he would rathernot He doesn't mind if it, doesn't
mind if a child dies, buthe'd rather not pull the trigger, right,
which is you know, an interestinginsight. I think, like he's
willing to condemn a kid, buthe would rather not get his hands dirty.
He's not passing the sentence. Yeah. Well, and you know,

(44:19):
and you know again, like Ilike the interplay between Pedro Pascal and Anna
Torv. I you know again,I knew the moment she was in the
show that she had one episode twoMax, And it's too bad because I
think she plays really well off ofPedro Pascal and gives him, I don't
know, gives him someone interesting tobounce off of. And I know that
we're going to see Nick Offerman andsome other people throughout the rest of the

(44:43):
series, but I don't know.I like Anna Torv a lot. I'm
still a fan of Fringe and ofMind Hunters. So never not going to
complain when she's on screen, butI just wish she was in this more
because she's a fantastic actress. Wouldn'tbe surprised if maybe they do something off
script and bring her back and maybesome flashback so Joel could see Yeah yeah,
I mean why not? Right again, when you have when you have

(45:05):
a storytelling medium where you've already shownthat you're doing flashbacks, like why not?
The the original cold opening for thisepisode was actually going to be like
showing Tessa's son infected. Yeah yeah, she like I read about that it
was her husband and son where originallygonna be infected, and she kills her
husband, but I don't think she'sable to kill her son or something like

(45:27):
that. And then obviously you wouldknow like that would completely fuck up a
person, right and you would alsounderstand why she would see Ellie is almost
like a chance to do it again, right, which I mean could have
been interesting, But I mean again, I don't think I need that explicitly
to understand, you know. Iagain, I think if if the option
are that cold open or the coldopen we got, I'm going to take

(45:49):
the cold open we got because Ithink it's just it's like it's from another
show, but it's a welcome kindof stylistic change to this show. I
think that the cold open adds somethingto this show that these kinds of shows
never tend to have, which ishelping us understand the world at large.
Like you said, because The Lastof Us is an American story, to

(46:10):
see that it's not just America butthe world, I think is helpful for
me to understand the scope of thenarrative and the fact that you like this
so much, Like I think youkind of need to watch Station eleven.
I want to know. Yeah,again, that's why I like Chernobyl.
I mean, the first ten minutesof this episode are just Chernobyl in this
show. It really is, Likethat's why I loved Chernobyl so much.

(46:30):
Again, there's something for me that'sinteresting about that. I get that it's
not for everybody. I understand thatI like Zodiac a hell of a lot
more than most people. I thinksome people find it boring, just like
people find Zodiac boring. Like,I don't think it's boring. I think
it's just as I think it's aI think it's I think it's just you

(46:51):
know, your expectation with the storytellingis there's got to be action and excitement
and things happening, and characters justsitting and talking can be that. I
think it can be interesting. Andagain, that's what the show is trafficking
in this In this episode, it'sreally more about the three of them.
We spend so much time with justthe three of them talking. Yeah,
and I'm okay with it. Ijust it's kind of a shock that it

(47:12):
ground the progress of the show toa halt in the second episode, but
I guess the game kind of doesthat anyways. Yeah, any any last
thoughts. I'm dying over here.My nose is just I'm so congested Court
of Steps. Yeah, I've gotthe mycelium in my nose. Well,
I guess my final question to youis in the game, it's spread by

(47:34):
bites, right, yeah, soin this is it also spread by bites?
Yeah, it's bites or if thething makes out with you, but
I feel like that's the same asif it beat you. Okay, Yeah.
Interesting. There are also in thegame there's spores, like, but
they're very obvious and if you breathethem in and she mentions that Ellie mentions
it and she said, aren't thereShe said, aren't there things that explode

(47:58):
and spores come out? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so and
then the game in those moments,Ellie would walk through without a mask,
but Joel or whoever is in theseeds would wear like a gat Like,
okay, so they're already kind ofplanting seeds. Maybe that's in the show.
I mean, I'm assuming, Yeah, I'm sure it'll probably make an
interesting visual at some point, right, but it's not like, but it's

(48:19):
quite obvious when that is, it'snot like it's airborne everywhere. So yeah,
right, biting is the primary motivemotive spreading, which is also interesting
because I'm like, you know,if it's not mostly airborne, then you
know, maybe the bombing could haveworked. I don't know, right well,
And also again, i mean,you know, we talk about how
are these things spread and it beingspread through bites like it's not the fastest

(48:39):
mode of transmission. No, AndI feel like society, I feel like,
look, I'm not going to saywe get to we don't give ourselves
enough credit because we just lived througha pandemic where I think we saw like
the most fucking idiotic shit known demandhappened. But at the same time,
this is much different than that.And like if people were running around in
the streets like eating people. Ijust always have about a hard time believing

(49:00):
that society would break down that easily, that quickly, that fast with zombies,
well with anything with zombies. ButI mean, this is this,
you know what I mean, Likeit just I have a hard time believing
it would fall apart that quickly.I actually believe it. Dude, have
you ever been to a concert orlike, but that's a close we're talking

(49:22):
about the world. Yeah, Iactually it would have to be something that
would have to it would have tobe something that has such a long gestation
period that people would have to beable to get wherever they were going and
then infect people that way. Andthis is not that either. Court Deceps
isn't that either? Well yeah,you can say, like I remember if
it said, if it like itgets you on your leg or something,
you last twenty four to forty hours, So it's like you could be on
a flight and then gets the newplace and then yeah, I don't know,

(49:45):
I guess just in the show,we see people turn way quicker,
you know, we see people Idon't know, Like again, it's it's
hard. It's hard to see themsay it was twenty four to forty eight
hours, but we see all thesepeople just like turning seemingly out of nowhere.
I don't know, Like I get, I get it, Like I
agree if you haven't seen many peopleturning. No, what we tell those
people in the first episode, likethe old lady, Yeah, but who

(50:07):
knows how long she'd been infected?Well there's a point where well the girl
is standing there and the old ladylike opens her mouth and she's like,
are the mycelium? But are themycelium coming out in that point? Yeah?
Yeah, But I'm saying, likewe don't know how long she's been
infected, right right, No,no, I And I get that,
and I get I get again,I get That's what I was saying,
Like it's it's hard to know whenthat all happened. But I don't know,

(50:28):
Like again, I just have ahard time believing society would fall apart
that quickly, that like that,like I don't know, like it society
fell apart really well, you knowwhat I mean, Like it fell apart
perfectly in a lot of ways,Like the thing I appreciate about Last of
Us that this has over almost allthe other zombie anything is the cuzies exist.
The world is like completely destroyed.There is. It's not great,

(50:52):
but there is some structure, rightand and like going as far as a
lot of the zombie stuff goes whereit's like, no, the world has
completely broken down like that for meis unrealistic, but this is in for
me, this is a lot betterway of approaching it where it's like there's
q zs. There are still people. The threat is there, but the

(51:12):
threat isn't like like you've said thereare We're gonna see right, and we're
gonna see real people being the realthreat really quick. The people are the
monster. Yeah, the people arethe walking dead. I know. I'm
I appreciate this episode. I'm excitedto see where the show continues to go.
Clearly we're gonna be moving outside ofthe cities and we're gonna be meeting

(51:34):
new characters and I'm I'm excited.So so we'll see. So on the
next episode of Mushrooms and Men,we're gonna be talking about the third episode
of the Last of Us titled LongLong Time. So until then you can
find Yashar and I over at weirdingwaymedia dot com, which is our podcast
network that we put together for allthe things that we work on, like
this show and House of the Dragon, a little show we did call Game

(51:55):
of Bros. Where we talk allabout what else, Game of Thrones,
House of the Dragon. That's whereyou can find this show. That's where
you can find that show. That'swhere you can find all the things that
we work on, like rate andreview. Wherever you find the show,
we'll catch you on the next episode.