Episode 4: Please Hold To My Hand

HBO's The Last of Us is an adaptation of the award-winning video game from 2013 that allowed the players to explore the infection-ravaged United States while playing as the two leads Joel and Ellie who are tasked with getting Ellie to the safe zone as she may carry the key to their survival.

Join The Kulturecast's Chris Stachiw and Game of Bros' Yashar Pirasteh as they talk all about episode four "Please Hold to My Hand". It's the show's first two parter with our duo journeying to Kansas City for some infected fun and a whole lot of really angry Midwesterners.

For more episodes of Of Mushrooms & Men along with many more podcasts that are guaranteed to be your new favorite audio obsession, check out Weirding Way Media at weirdingwaymedia.com.

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
We're Weird. Hello everyone, andwelcome to a Mushrooms and Men another The

(00:40):
Last of Us podcast. I amone of your two hosts, Chris.
I am joined as always by He'sthe He's the Early Chris, Joel Chris.
My floor's breathing. What does thatmean? Oh my god? When
when will the bloaters show up inthis show? Ladies and gentlemen, you
got your answer. Oh my god. We're gonna be talking about a little
show that's on HBO. If youstumbled onto this podcast, well you know

(01:03):
we're gonna be time. We're gonnatalk about the fourth episode of the first
season of HBO's The Last of Us. So this episode aired February fifth,
and yes it is still talking allabout the video game. And this is
a this is what would you say? This is about our three of the
video game, now hour three anda half and the hour four of the
video game. I mean, well, we should tell the viewers whatever the

(01:27):
podcasts people's whatever you are, mushroompeople, mushroom beds. I think I
think the proper term is mushroom tattoosum, mushroom stags room. This is
all we're gonna be doing for thenext hour just talking about mushrooms. Yes,

(01:48):
we're talking about a point in thegame where in the game. You're
playing it now. Yeah, Iam playing it, but I'm playing the
game now, not playing ahead.I have stopped playing where this episode,
Like I said, if this gameis if the show is following the game
as closely as it seems to be, which I think it has been,
I stopped playing around the part wherethis episode ends because I didn't realize certain

(02:14):
certain things would happen in certain characterswould be met. So, yeah,
when we last left our intrepid duo, they left Bill and Frank's house and
they're traveling to Wyoming, and thisis what happens when you Okay, first
off, I just want to askyou something because it bothered me in the
video game, and it bothers mehere and it bothers me. Chiefs fans.
I do hate Chiefs fans, butthat's a different story. Um,

(02:35):
these are all just Chiefs fans thatthis is. This is what happens when
when they lose the Super Bowl,zing, Zing Here's the thing. Okay,
I've never been to Pittsburgh, Okay, and that's where this originally takes
place in the game. Takes waysin Pittsburgh. I have, however,
been to Kansas City a lot,so I could tell you with absolute certainty
a couple of things. There areplenty of ways to get around Kansas City
that don't require you to drive throughdowntown Kansas City. I had a problem

(03:02):
with it in the video game.I have a problem with it here.
It's a fucking contrivance for them tolose the car. It's fine, I
get it, but nobody in theirright mind would actually drive through a city
with a car, knowing what Joelsupposedly knows both in the video game and
in the show that oh, I'vekilled people before, I've done this,

(03:22):
Then why would you willingly take agolden item that nobody has, like a
car and go into the middle ofa city. It bothers me in the
game, and it bothers me inthe show because it feels very contrived.
Um yeah, I mean part ofit is just an ad dramatic tension.
I guess the one thing you couldlook at. Okay, so let's let's
do a do a quick recap,right, So you said Joel and Elliot
on the road they're trying to getin the game, they go to was

(03:44):
like Pittsburgh, and this time they'rein kids City and they're further west than
they are, yeah show or inthe game, And I think the only
purpose for that is just like thecreators was saying, just timing wise,
it just made more sense with mefurther west, like there's no there's no
real well, I think in thegame and the game, they in the
game, they have what how manyhours does it take to complete the game?
Like sixteen hours maybe in the showone right, and the show only

(04:06):
has ten ten, so there hasto be things that are dropped four time
and up until now, I meanwe're still even with them changing the city,
they're still operating within us a closetimeline, a close approximation of the
timelines in the game. Yeah,and so they make it west. Ellie's

(04:26):
you know, kissing her gun whatever. She's got the guns, she obviously
knows how to use it. Sheyou know, she takes them out the
chamber. I don't see this characterbeing the character at the second game at
all, Like it's this is gonnabe a real stretch because I know in
the second game how Ellie is asa character, and I don't like,
is there really many years have manyyears best yes anyway, not twenty,

(04:50):
but many have beast to the pointwhere she's a different character entirely anyway,
So um yeah, and so theybasically it's a it's a lot of this
is kind of the point you wanted, though, you get a lot more
of that Joel and Ellie bonding andlike it's fantastic, really like firming up
the relationship. And then yeah,so then they end up ambushed, um
with you know, classic classic youknow, oh my leg hurts, please

(05:14):
help me, Please stop your car, we need your help. And then
yeah, it's like the game,just like the game. But the one
thing you talk about, the contrivancethe difference is in this, like I
think he's operating assumption that Fedra isaround, because when they're going through the
city, they realize that, ohshit, the q zs like right,
the doors have been blown open,which means things aren't operating as they're supposed

(05:35):
to be, which I do appreciatethat they that in this they kind of
say, Okay, it was youoperated under this assumption of something being X.
And it's why that's not in thevideo game at all, in the
video game, but in the videogame it's a lot more in the video
game, it's it's a lot.It seems like more because in the video
game to get to the point wherethe highways blocked off and they have to

(05:57):
go off the highway, so they'realready into the city. Here, it's
like, this feels like such anidiotically conscious decision. But again, like
they do give themselves that little alittle wiggle room. Again, I still
find it hard to believe because Joelis not a fan of Pedra. The
last time he interacted with Pedra,he literally killed one of them. So
they've been doing well enough on theirown. It's just odd to me that

(06:19):
they would go out of their wayto go into the city. I just
do kind of find that a littlehard to believe, even with the show,
because even in the show, theyare operating rather logically. I feel
like, I mean, even tothe point where Joel is spreading glass on
the ground to make sure he getsyou know, if someone comes in the
night like they're not operating, likethey don't know what they're doing. When

(06:40):
it comes to the writing, it'sjust I would have hoped because when I
was playing that part in the game, I was like, I really hope
they find a better way to getthem into the city to have all of
this happened. That doesn't feel kindof so like like how Varis felt in
the last season A Game of Thrones, where it's like, this is against
character, this is your character hasbeen so smart and calculating and careful,
and then all of a sudden,he's like, take this letter that says

(07:01):
I want to kill Danari to somebody, and it's like, oh, you
would never do this, and it'slike smart characters acting stupid to further the
plot. It's just that's just atad lazy writing. That's it. That's
and again it's just a little lazy. But that's fine. I mean what
happens because of it is entertaining.And I'm never going to complain about Melanie
Lynsky being in anything, even thoughI found out she was in Two and

(07:25):
a Half Men, which is ayeah, dude, she was. Charlie
Sheen's like, I'm sorry, that'snot my I'm sorry, that's not my
point at reference for her. ThankGod. I guess Heavenly Creatures is where
I know Melanie Lynsky from, andI was excited to know she was in
this show because she is such apresence. But how closely is this hewing
to the game, because, likeI said, I'm not at this point

(07:46):
in the game. So yeah,So basically Melie Lynsky's Catholic character is like
they've over thrown Fedra and they're likethese group kind of basically people that yet
very tribal protect their own but dothe people written on the side of their
car, which I felt may havebeen a step too far towards something that
they weren't intending it all right,January six, I see you. I'm

(08:09):
not saying, man, all I'msaying is it seems like that's what they're
saying, is all I'm saying.So I think this storyline is generally Actually
did a quick like wikipedter to refreshmy memory has been a long time,
so I played the game is huinglike the Sam and Henry thing is from
the game, but we actually neversaw the leader, so like we're now
pursuing them. Yeah, we saidthere's people pursuing them. We never saw

(08:31):
like the puppeteer, So like it'sinteresting, and I think Neil Druckman's and
Craig Mazon were on record saying likeone of the advantages is now they can
flesh out some of the villains andlike they want to give people a why.
And Neil Drugmans is something interesting.He's like he's like every person's doing
something. It's like there's very fewlike truly evil people or that are doing
things because they think they're evil.They're doing it as like a means of

(08:54):
protection, er like they think it'sthe right thing to do. And so
I'm not I don't I didn't interpretthat as like, oh, I'm gonna
like totally feel for Kathleen and youknow, want her to kill Joel and
Ellie, but at least you cankind of step into her psyche and her
brother's been killed. She's angry,she's looking for someone to blame. They're
feeling oppressed by Pedra and so,and she clearly doesn't give a fuck.
Is she killed the doctor that deliveredher. By the way, I was

(09:18):
really as as kind of great asthat scene was, I was disappointed that
that's all we get to see.If John gets who I don't know if
you recognize him. He played theguy that Jeff Goldblum's fly barts on his
hand and leg at the end ofthat movie. No, John Gets is
amazing. Man, he's such agod. He is a fantastic actor,
like old school actor, been ina million things. But it's it's great

(09:39):
to see him. Just I'm yourdoctor. Don't kill me. I'm your
doctor. Would you say he wasa good Gets? And then he gets
gotten there about pretty quickly? Man. Bella Ramsey really landed on thick this
episode. I kind of liked it. Yeah, you're trying to be She's
the Ellie of the game. Isa little less precocious and a little bit

(10:01):
angrier, which I mean the punsthings taken straight from the game, Like
she has a pun book. It'sBella Ramsay's general demeanor is a tad more
precocious than the video game Ellie.She's a little it feels like she's a
little bit more standoffs. And againI'm still only whatever a third in the
game. So but like she's obviouslytrying to connect with Joel, like with
the jokes and like even she getsJoel to like laugh at a pun finally,

(10:24):
and I'm not even sure if Joelhas laughed. But since the beginning,
like since the before times, right, I got hiccups. You can
edit that out right but I haveto now anyway, So yeah, it
was. It was good to seethem be a little not that they weren't
concerned with their safety, but alittle bit more normal. And you're starting

(10:46):
to see the veneer of Joel meltAway, not fully, but you're and
you also see things like Ellie isa bit more competent than we said,
like you except with the gun,like she obviously knows how to use it,
and she used it actually just afrightening degree. I mean, I
would say she misuses it because shefucking put tea you know where she shot
him right like in the back,right, she shot him in the spine.

(11:07):
He's like paralyzed, which is allI mean is I ain't right I
could and then Joel find stabs himto death. So I mean, and
you know what, right, andyou know what, if it were in
Arnold, if Arnold Schwartzenegger it hadbeen this, he would have had your
knife tupent. I would think,come on, I mean that scenees awful

(11:33):
though, like it's it's but it'snot because again, like you know that
that guy is full of shit too, because his buddies are right behind him.
I mean, it's it's it's agreat scene because it's like you want
them to because you don't feel badfor him in the context if he attacked
our main character, right right,But you also see like killing a person
and this guy's not super like he'syoung, um in the place like this

(11:56):
like it's brutal and that's like aheart like it's this isn't a pleasant thing.
Even Joe who's done this for years, like you can tell he takes
no pleasure in this, right right, Like he's he's equipped to do it,
but he would rather not. Andthen Ellie, obviously she's at this
point we haven't really seen her killanyone, and it's implied she's only shot
at or someone before. But right, this is it's it's it makes it

(12:18):
real force like it's not they're notit's not YadA YadA. The violence isn't
being YadA YadA, which in alot of shows it would be, right,
well, in a lot of zombieshows it is. And there's a
time and a place. But Ilike that this show is taking a stance
and saying like we're going to ina fictional reality, like still try to
stay close to how things we thinkwould be, you know, taking our

(12:39):
rules and applying them here. Well, and the other thing is, and
you know, again now having someframe of reference with the video game,
I mean I knew and I understoodthe focus of the game is obviously crafting
and resource management and stealth because againresources stealth is necessitated because of the lack
of sources, but also due tothe kinds of enemies in the game,

(13:01):
right, especially the zombies. Yeah, the clickers, right, So all
of that aside the scene in thegame that has Ellie doing what she does
here in this scene where she couldit's similar, right, because Joel is
being choked under water, he's beendrowned, and then Ellie comes in and

(13:22):
point blanks the guy in the headin the game, yeah, right,
Could they have done that in theshow, I mean, yeah, they
could have, but I don't thinkthey've established her as a character to like
straight up point blank someone. Butthey hadn't in the game either, because
that was the first time she killssomeone. Best that we can tell,
I think it was done. Ithink it was smartly done, because if

(13:43):
that had been the way it hadbeen done, I think you would have
turned people against Ellie very quickly.I think they want they want to make
her falls in the right word,but they want to make her transition to
become a more Joel like right,a bit slower right, as opposed to
just like point blanking a guy inthe head. This is obviously a huge
first step, and I wouldn't besurprised if thin the next episode she's killing

(14:05):
people. But at least it's notlike like she's eager to use the gun
because the gun represents like a wayto defend herself, right, And like
you see that every episode she askedfor a gud, she asked for a
gun, she gets the gun,she kind of does the like, oh
look at me, like the whenyou see those like cringe teenagers on Instagram
or whatever they're guns and then theyaccidentally like blow a hole in the sailing
because they don't understand keep your fingeroff the trigger guggers and Joel, and

(14:28):
Joel has to teach her that.And so, like I think the question
is does she want the gun becauseshe like wants to kill people, or
is that she wants the gun becauseit like represents that she is self sufficient
or you know a little bit ofa little bit of b I think right
now, it's more of the Shewants to say, like I don't really
need Joel, but like I'm happyto have him, and like, you
know, worst comes worse, Icould take care of myself. And she

(14:50):
also wants to prove her value likelook, see, I'm not just pluggage
or what do you say, cargo? Right, I'm not just the job.
Yeah, And I don't know what, like what did you think about
like how they sort of I thinkI mean again, I think it's I
think it's interesting. You know,obviously a show like this, it's a
road show, and it's it's verymuch like they're going from here to here

(15:11):
to hear, to hear, tohear, to hear to hear, and
then they get to the end.So it's not like it's not like we
have the same characters hanging out forfive episodes together. It's very much Melanie
Lynsky will probably be in the showfor this episode, in the next episode,
and that's probably it, like youknow, as far as the game
goes, and and you know,Nico Offerman and Murray Bartlett were in one

(15:33):
episode. Like the thing about thisshow is is it's the show feels a
lot more like the video game thanI think I thought it would now.
And the reason behind that is thatthe style of a story that they're telling
is very episodic and serialized. Rightyou can cut each of these out as
episodes and it be its own kindof standalone story. This is the first

(15:54):
episode that's not like that. Thisis the first episode that we end on
a cliffhanger, a genuine cliffhanger,which again, that's kind of where I
am in the game. So Idon't have any idea where this is going.
I know the ending of the game, I don't know the ending of
the show. I think it's interestingthat we're getting a humanized villain and stuff.
I will I'm you know, Ilike Melanie Lynsky a lot. I'll

(16:15):
be curious to see where they gowith her character and kind of what the
end the goal is, because again, right now, it's just you sold
us out, and I want tosee what else they get to and where
else they go with it, becausethere's like they've like they've even said,
and like you've said, there's alot of stuff that you can mine here.
I mean, if they were ifthis character was never even in the
game, unlike some of the othercharacters that we've seen who are in the

(16:38):
game, but not very much likeBill and Frank who Frank's not even in
the game effectively, he's by thetime you meet him, he's dead.
But what's so great about the showis it does have this opportunity to take
a thread and tug at it.Right, that's all this is. We're
going to tug it a thread alittle bit more than we did in the

(16:59):
game, and I think the world, right, I think it's working.
I will be curious by the endof the season if this all kind of
feels cohesive and hangs together, becauseagain, we're going from city to rural
to city and then I don't knowwhere it goes from here. Like I
said, I'm not that far inthe game, and I'm not trying to
spoil everything for myself, but Iactually really I like to this episode.

(17:22):
I think this episode is a necessary, kind of you might say, filler
episode, but I think it's moreabout all the stuff with Ellie and Joel.
Right, it's really an Ellie andJoel episode. However, I will
ask you an interesting question as aside note. Did they do enough outside
of what the game does to fleshout their relationship or are they just doing

(17:42):
as much as the game did,because some of the cut scenes are repeated
in the show. One for one, like the thing with the NUDI mag
that, like the dialogue is directlyfrom the game, and I think they
are doing a good job of fleshingout the relationship. Like I know,
we get a lot of them lastepisode, but we saw them once they
got to Bill and Frank's house andthe letter and spending time and like you

(18:04):
know, almost felt like an afterthoughtthough to the episode, Like yeah,
but it did add to that.And then this episode definitely with how they
camped out the jokes that like conversationsand yeah, the things were taken from
the game, but like those scenesserve the purpose of building that relationship in
the game too, Like that's exactlywhat they were there for. So agree,
I think they've done a good jobthere. I thought that to Melanie

(18:26):
Lynskey's Kathleen point you were making earlier, like it does rain to be seen.
She's not like a menacing, hulkingvillain, but the fact is,
she has a very clear idea ofwhat she wants, and that's revenge,
and she's willing to essentially make upany narrative she can to support that,
Like she says, oh, youknow Sam and Henry or Henry you know
called these people in And I mean, does she actually believe that or she's

(18:48):
just saying that to rile people towardsher. And then I made a joke
about it earlier. But we alsosee her with her well bearded homie,
who may or may not have tiesto this franchise is already uh wait,
who is he? The guy herlike second in command plays Tommy in the
game. Dude, he's the he'sthe voice and the face actor Tommy in

(19:11):
the game. He has Jeffrey Peers. Yeah, Tommy doesn't have a beard
in the game, so yeah,but it's the same. I recognized his
voice because like I heard his voiceand I was like, I was like,
that sounds like the dude from thegame. Because also again in the
game, haven't seen him since theopening cut scene. Yeah yeah, and
in the show we haven't seen himsince the opening scene, but obviously he
will come into it because they mentionedhim again as well, and that was

(19:34):
actually we'll get back to that.So she's like so single focused when this
guy who obviously he trusts her andhe follows her, but he clearly doesn't
agree with her. He's like,showing her this thing. Something's pulsating in
the ground. I'm assuming he's playedto the clickers. It doesn't seem good
and honestly probably seems like well moreof a property than hunting down a dude
who's running away from you. Um. But she's like, nope, we'll

(19:56):
come back to this later. Howcould that possibly go wrong? You can
even see this guy like isn't totallydown with that plan of action, but
he's like, okay, so that'llbe interesting. I think we know what
that is, right, I mean, it's the thing that they introduced in
the Bill and Frank part in thegame. I think they showed it,
and they showed it in on nextweek's The Last of Us. They showed

(20:18):
it, well, well, well, well you're smart, Well it's not
a spoiler if they showed it.That was right at the end of the
episode. I watched the end ofthe episode and there it was, and
they showed it. I wish theyhadn't, but I mean they pretty much
showed it right, like they showedwhatever it is without showing it. That's
what the ticking time bomb here is, which I think is a smarter way

(20:41):
of handling it than its just showingup in the school. Like yeah,
that felt that felt in the game, that felt very game like, like
well you need you need constant likeset pieces in the game, right right,
right, which like but like inthe game it felt very strange because
like up until that point you hadn'thad any like that, and that's like,
now there's a boss battle like inthe Let me put it this way,

(21:04):
the Last of Us, in myopinion, is not the kind of
video game that necessitates a boss battle, right, I mean, it's less
about like some diversity, You're right, but you know what I mean,
Like it's just yea, but thatI wonder how that's going to be handled
as the overarching threat here, becauseagain, the clickers are always the overarching
threat, are they not? Orare the humans the overarching I think to

(21:26):
Joel's point, like you can almostpredict where the clickers are going to be
a lot of the time. They'relike zombies, yeah, and and like
you know, but if the humansare the ones that are the unpredictable ones,
and it's good. I'm interested tosee where they go with the Kathleen
character. Like I think we alllove Mililynsky Yellow Jackets amazing if you haven't
seen it, she's real. It'sreally good and and there's there's shades of

(21:49):
this character there, although she's alittle bit less insidious in that show.
Um but yeah, I mean she'sobviously going to pop off. And Henry
and Sam am introduced like a whatI'm going to think are kind of like
a parallel to Joel and Ellie.Um. Sure, And we talked about
like is this for the gamers orthe people that have seen you know,

(22:10):
or for just people that aren't familiarwith it. I think based on how
this ended, I think it's itis more people who haven't played the game,
because like, yes, if youplayed it, like, it's not
really much of a cliffhanger, right, Like they're not there's nothing bad that's
going to happen to them because ofwhat's happening at the end of the episode,
Like, yeah, we're seeing this, we're essentially seeing this one line
away from everything being handled like yeah, and so like, but I'm interested

(22:34):
to see how they handle the relationshipwith Henry and Sam because that actually is
quite impactful on the Joel Elie dynamic. Yeah, and hey, if you
know what we could change things,no flashbacks, no cold opening. I
was surprised. I bet we'll getsomething in the next episode to address something
with Melanie Lynsky in them, likeit would be guaranteed that yeah, but

(22:59):
not because it was in the previewfor the next episode. I didn't wasn't
that eagle eyed, But like standto reason, the way they told the
Bill and Frank story, they're gonnamaybe lean back on that because again,
we do need to, like yousaid, kind of see more of a
shade of gray of Melanie Lynsky,because right now there's not a whole lot
of gray there. She well killedan unarmed man. Well, I mean
her brother obviously was infected, right, And the implication is Henry said something

(23:22):
to Fedra, I guess, andFedra like we've seen how they hate infected
people. And then thought it wasbecause I thought it was she sold them
out because they were part of theuprising that was trying to overthrow Fedra and
they just killed them. Because that'swhy I thought. I interpreted as he
was infected, because remember she saidthe doctor was turning in people, and
so I assumed the doctor would like, oh, I just assume he was

(23:44):
turning people in just because I justturning into centers. No. I thought
he's the doctor, so he knowsif people are infected. I mean I
could be wrong. That was howI read. Well, if you're infected,
it's like it doesn't matter though,Like if you're infected, you want
to get them out of there,right, Like there's no stopping it.
I understand that, like not necessarilyfully rational, But maybe you're right.
Maybe it was about the set andwell, I mean they took out Fedrah.

(24:04):
I mean, yeah, yes,not so effective. We've seen it.
Well, I was going to ask, you know, in the game,
you know, I know how thegame ends, and I don't want
to talk about the way the gameends. But there's this thing that they
always talk about about how the firefliesare like these ineffectual dipshits who like can't
get anything done right, and they'relike they're not successful of what they're doing.

(24:25):
They're bad at organ they're bad atlike a sustained effort. Right,
So like we haven't seen that yet, right, No, No, these
are not these are not the fireflies, right. I think the game uh
says like the fireflies help like armsome of these like rebels but no,
like, these aren't ideological. Theseare just people that I mean, I

(24:45):
guess want to be quote unquote free. But I don't know if I like
their brand of I don't. Idon't know if I love their brand of
freedom. Well, and that's thething, if it's like, you know,
the iron boot of one is nodifferent than the iron boot of another,
right, Like Melanie Lynsky's seems likea hard customer, so she's probably
no better than Fedra, Like,I mean, we've seen that, Like

(25:06):
I don't think. I don't thinkFedra would murder their only doctor, which
is that? How's that going tocome by you in the ass? I
wonder? Yeah, I don't.Again, like it's this episode, like
this episode is not a full storythe way the Bill and Frank episode was,
the way the first episode was,the way the second episode was.
This is I think my only knockagainst this episode is the cliffhanger ending.

(25:29):
But like again, like you said, that is not for me, that
is not for you. That isa storytelling device that exists because people haven't
seen the game. That's all itis. Like, that's it. It
was intense, Like you could haveadded another five ten minutes, like you
you could added five seconds and there'sno cliffhanger. Yeah, yeah, like
literally literally there's no cliffhanger. Thoseare not Melanie Lynsky's people. Those are

(25:52):
the people Melanielynsky's chasing actor. Like, yeah, like, we don't know
the names of these two characters thatare holding Ellie and Joel hostage, because
if we did, we would knowthat they're they're people that are on the
run. So it's these tension istaken away if you are given one more
piece of information and there's uh theother piece that there was some good conversations
between Joel and Ellie about the relationshipbuilding, like in the car when she

(26:15):
was looking at the nudy magazines andthe puns. And then after Ellie kills
or not, Joel kills the guythat Ellie shot. You know, Joel
kind of explains the situation to herand he's like, you know, she's
like, how did you know therewas a scam? He's like, I've
been on both sides of it,and she says like, did you kill
innocent people? And then here's myboy, Pedro Pascal heard you, Haydon.

(26:36):
He's like and he just he saysso much with just a look.
Right. He looks at her andhe's like basically like like it's one of
those things you see in movies orTV shows, were like, oh,
did you cheat on me with her? And he's like, I'm not going
to answer that. Like the factthat you don't answer that, Okay,
can I point something out here becausethis is I knew you were gonna fucking
bring it up because I had tosay something to you about my feelings on
Pedro Pascal. Troy Baker in thegame just says yeah I did, and

(27:02):
that's that why pussy foot around it. Who cares, dude. It's literally
the lawless future. That's a dystopia. There's no crime that you could do
that you can be punished for atthis point because we're literally watching a twelve
year old murder someone. It's notabout I know, I know, but
it it was quote unquote justified words. This is him like, dude,

(27:22):
like literally just in the game,he just goes, yes, I did,
like I just you. In away, I appreciate that the game
allows the character to own his baddecisions. In the show, it feels
like the character is almost allowed tosay yeah, I did, but man
like cat that got the canary,It's like, is it that? Is
it that? Or he's like,because he's starting to open up to Ellie,

(27:45):
like he's afraid, like this willclose the door on that. Right,
character in the game didn't seem tobe afraid that it would close the
door. I mean, it's justI know. But but but again,
they set that, they set thatdialogue up one to one, and then
they change that one part. That'sthe one part that they change. But
he says in the game, straightup, I did kill innocent people.
But why do you think they didthat? Well, that's what I'm was

(28:06):
going to ask you, Like,is it more palatable for your character in
a video game to be a littlebit more Yeah, I mean again nefarious
or you don't need to connects.I just want to you know, fucking
murder really, because the reason peopleget so angry about The Last of Us
the second game is because of theemotional attachment that they've formed with the character
of Joel. Joel isn't like thetop fifteen characters in video games of all

(28:26):
time. He's literally up there withMaster Chief for people. But I mean,
maybe not me, but maybe Imean the last it was clearly resonated
with a lot of people, tothe point where the an entire video game
is disavowed because of the way thecharacter is treated. And that's not me
saying that. I mean, weboth know the backlash of The Last of
Us two is undeserved because people gotemotionally attached to a character and a fucking

(28:49):
dystopian narrative where you should never getattached to characters because the likelihood is they're
gonna die, because they almost alwaysdo. Oh I've been bitten, look
like oh there you go, like, oh my god, Like you're not
my husband anymore, it's not yourson anymore. Like how many fucking narratives
in post apocalyptic anything have a positive, happy ending for the characters. None,

(29:11):
because they're already living in a fuckingnightmare. There's no the end.
Death is the release in these fuckingnarratives, right Like to die is to
be free here because you don't haveto worry about the clickers and the wastelanders
and the government like you're being attackedconstantly. That's all I wonder is,
why do they feel the need tomake it that he's not as quote bad

(29:33):
of a guy in the show asin the video game. I think they
want us to understand that he's awareof the bad things that he's done,
and he's done them, but he'snot proud of it. And I think
he's trying to set an example forEllie that we'll see if he follows through
on the rest of the way.I think that. I think if he
does what he does in the game, this doesn't track. Like here's the

(29:56):
problem. I know how the gameends, and the character in the game
that tracks with that ending. I'mgonna ask you now, because we're almost
at the halfway point of the show, I'm gonna ask you the question that
anybody who knows where the show isgoing would be asking someone else. Is
the show going to end the sameway the video game ends? I think
so, and I think that itwill not. It will be very certain

(30:17):
it will. It will. Itwill not work as well in the in
the show as it does in thegame because he is a different character here.
The character in the game makes thatdecision, and I believe it all.
I believe that the character in thegame is charting in that direction already
because the character in the game islikable, but he's not that likable he's
not as likable as this version ofJoel is. This version of the goal

(30:38):
is trying very hard to get youto not like him. That's how likable
he is, because again it's PedroPascal. He's just a likable guy.
It's again that's video of him dancingwith the Do you see that video of
him dancing with the SNL thing?You sent me which which was which?
Which was better than Chris Pratt?I knew you're gonna say funny, I

(31:06):
mean work where there's some christ Okay? Can I point again my Chris Pratt
thing comes from the same point ofmy criticisms for this The source material does
something so good. You choose notto change one thing, but you change
like picking and choosing the things youchange. It shows that you understand certain

(31:26):
narrative kind of edges that maybe needto be standed off for the benefit of
certain viewers. Right. That's whythey changed him, because there are going
to be some people that were watchthe show and go, no way I
can get behind this character, andI wonder if they're tracking that way because
the decision he makes at the endof the show, maybe he doesn't.
I mean, I can't see themdoing that, but I could I guess

(31:48):
see them changing it or maybe leavingit ambiguous. I mean, he did
still like stab a dude, likea helpless guy, but we didn't we
didn't see it. I think.Come on. My point is like it's
not like, Okay, he softenedhis language slightly. He's not like a
fundamentally different person than he was inthe game. Like, so, do
you believe that the Joel of theshow was out killing innocent people out in

(32:12):
the cities to survive? Could yousee him doing that? Yeah, as
soon as like after he lost hisdaughter, Like that would have like really
fucked someone up, and like he'sjust like I believe it actually make it
totally tracks, especially if we considerKathleen. She just lost her brother and
she's basically like to see the worldburn. Like for people that don't agree,
I believe her one. I believeMelanie Lynsky one percent. But we

(32:35):
haven't seen We didn't see Joel rightafter his daughter died, right right,
But like again, like, ohman, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna
this is my hill to die onfor the show. I know it's it's
it's it's like okay, I meanit's okay, it's okay. We're gonna
get to a point where it's eithergonna be a problem or they're gonna it's
just gonna go away. Look,I can't help that the video game did
a good job. I can't helpbut the Troy Baker is talented at what
he does. Like, well,the book was better. It's not a

(33:00):
book being better thing. Maybe youplaying the game. The book is always
better. That's It's whether or notthe source material does enough to warrant existing
as an adaptation of the good sourcematerial. The book in the movie are
always going to be different. Idon't know why we would compare them.
It's more I'm asking what you're doing. No, I'm asking why make a
change? Why make a change?You are comparing a thing because I am

(33:22):
not comparing. I'm asking why makethe change? What is necessitating you changing
something that is perfect the way itis. I don't know, man,
I think I'm not saying Castrey Bakerin this show obviously not the point.
I'm just saying the character of Joelin the show seems to be a lot
less abrasive than the one in thegame. What you're saying is you hate
Pedro Pascal, what's your what's yourTwitter handle? So they don't hate Pedro

(33:43):
Pascal at all. I like PedroPascal. That's the problem. I feel
like Joel needs to be a littlebit less likable. I just do.
I come on, you gotta giveme. I'll actually say one thing,
like the end of the game,like I was all in on Joel and
really liked him as a character andlike really affected me profoundly. So I

(34:04):
don't actually think liking him now isgoing to I think it's gonna it's gonna
make it more impactful. Okay,I mean I could I could see that,
and I could see that being thecase as well. But that means
but that means that that moment isgoing to have to really blow the doors
off, like they're gonna have toI mean again, like maybe they go
complete again, like because of thatmoment. Like we have not seen in

(34:27):
any source material of any kind thatmoment being decided like that. And that's
what made the Last of Us,That's what sustained that game through the end
of the game, is that itdidn't fall off at the end. The
end of the game punches you rightin the face and says you're gonna like
it like it's a gut punch.You said it yourself. I mean we've
we've talked about the ending, andyou've told me how you felt about it,

(34:47):
Like you don't forget the ending ofthe Last of Us. That's a
testament to the storytelling. And Ithink I'm just curious if they're gonna nail
it, because man, that it'sgonna be right, Like it's going to
be hard. Yeah, I'm tryingnot to like do spoilers and whatnot,
but it's it's definitely one of themost impactful video game endings I've ever seen.

(35:09):
Not like it's not twisty or anythinglike, it's just a decision that's
being made. It's just very likehuman but like not, it's very real.
I guess it underlines the underlines thecognitive dissonance of humanity of wanting one
thing and knowing how to get itand doing something else and it's and just

(35:30):
making that decision. Like but butI do think like it's the whole game,
the narrative, the ending is allcontingent on the Joel and Elly relationship
and they are building up well.And I know you made a point about
like not feeling that that was thatwas where you wanted to be. But
I think this is going in theright direction. They made small changes,
I think just to maybe gives themore time with Sam and Henry and understand

(35:51):
their conflicts a bit more, ratherthan they help us fight zombies or faceless
no name. That's just a functionof you have a bit more character time
because you don't have to do likegameplay, right, you don't have to
like shoot twenty walkers and shot tenpeople. Oh yeah, like and again
like this even with the last episodekind of again kind of being what it

(36:12):
was, and the things that wetalked about, like the fact that they're
saying, hey, it's less aboutgiving us just more of Joel and Ellie,
but also expanding on the world.I appreciate that. I mean,
that's those those cold opens or whatwe're talking about, those flashbacks. All
of that is helping, and II actually really appreciate the world building that
the show is doing because a lotof these zombie shows don't even give a

(36:36):
shit. You want to talk aboutstuff that's YadA YadA, that's the YadA
YadA stuff and zombie stuff. It'slike, man, whatever, Like oh,
everybody's everybody's dead and it's just peopleroam in the countryside. It's like
this in this narrative, I don'tthink that's the case, and they've kind
of hinted as such, which Iappreciate that they're going out of their way
to make us understand that it's notjust zombies have taken over and people are

(37:00):
on the run. Like that's yaddayadding as far as I'm even little conversations
that like Joel has with Ellie,like explain about how Tommy got it involved
with the fireflies and he and Tommylike you used to be banned. It's
like little things like that flesh outthe story in a way that, Okay,
we don't know about how everything happenedeverywhere, but like we get a
good feel for the context of theworld and we can fill in the blanks

(37:22):
enough. Yeah, and hey,you know what, I appreciate that they
show to fucking loves with an Arby'sAt one point I felt like that very
intentional. I did see that wedidn't have to armies, wasn't free to
begin with, which is not inthe game. Fantastic line nowhere in the
video game, Like that's The thingI think more than anything else looking back

(37:45):
on the last episode is you know, yeah, Craig Mason and Neil Dreckmand
know how to write something like thereyou go, and you know what this
this episode with all the Melanie Lynskystuff, I hope it gets as good
of a payoff as the Bill andFrank stuff, because this is a holy
new character that has never been shownbefore. I mean, Frank has shown
in the game, but we Imean Franks in the game or Bill.

(38:05):
Yeah, I mean this is thischaracter does not exist in the game,
like the impact of her actions does. But yes, right, she doesn't.
And I'm liking that they're getting theselike pretty good, like big actors
to do these honestly bit parts,but they're not necessarily core for the entire
season. Like you know, wehad um tests in the first few episodes,
then we had Bill and Frank,and it's like you're getting like really

(38:27):
talented actors. Now you're getting MelanieLynsky to play Kathleen, and like it
just emphasizes that this is like areally high caliber of show that they're not
really cutting any expense. They're gettinglike really great talent to play like these
these important, if not like fullseason roles and they're actually turning in fantastic
performances. It's not like, youknow, Nick Offerman just showed up,
went through the paces. Same withMelanielynsky, like she looks she looks suitably

(38:52):
angry in this show and suitably pissedand like just at her wits end,
like I believe she's a woman ona mission, and yeah, I wouldn't
want to, you know, No, she seems like a miserable human being,
which is which which is perfectly fine, Like I don't again, it's
the fucking waste land. How manycharacters get happy endings, Like the characters

(39:13):
in the last episode got a happyending in spite of everything and because they
died together, right exactly, likethey made that decision, which is like
the way these narratives normally end iseither the decisions made for you or you
make it yourself. So Melanie Linsky'scharacter, I'm curious to see where we
go. But yeah, you know, you to be sick if they just

(39:35):
like kill her before she ever beats, that would be like that would be
so funny. Oh my god,Like do you like a fucking what was
that guy from the Star Wars moviethat they just like killed off on the
second one. Oh you mean,oh snow or I was like Captain Fasima
also like kind of just datomly likeyeah, oh yeah that's right, Yes,

(39:57):
just YadA YadA out of existence.Yeah, I you know what,
I'm I am glad that the showis avoiding the zombie show stuff it still
has avoid. I think it's donea good job avoiding the zombie show stuff
of like the usual tropes. ButI think that's also because again, like
the Last of Us isn't a zombiegame. It's it's it's a it's I've
never killed so many humans in azombie game before, guys, like you

(40:20):
know what I mean, Like,the Last of Us is just about as
much about the people as it isabout the organic, you know, the
organic human threat versus the humanity overridingthreat. So and then the show is
doing a good job of that becausehow many zombies did we see in this
episode? None? A zero.We saw some nice pulsating though, right,
but we didn't see any zombies.I'm like, can you imagine showing

(40:42):
someone this show and being like,this is the fourth episode of this show.
It's about zombies, like where,where's where's Daryl with the sword?
Michelle's putting people's heads off? Likewhere's that? Also separately, did you
see the news that there actually islike a fungal infection that's been impacting people
because it is like hotter and it'sit's not like this, but it is
like for people with like low Isit like in Indonesia? No, it's

(41:05):
like in I don't know, Ithink in the West Coast, like people
with like low immunity have been likesuccumbing to this illness that I mean during
I mean during COVID there was awhole fungal infection in India because of in
the summer times, it's humid inthe in the hospitals and there were just
people crowded in there and people weregetting infected with some something probably similar,
and it's like, oh Jesus,I know, I know, it's like

(41:29):
come on, man, I mean, look, this is like anything else.
The zombie outbreak, the one that'slike a disease from the wild.
It would have to be like theperfect thing to happen. Saying with this,
it's like it would have to Idon't know if Cortes sets could actually
do this. I'm sure there arepeople much smarter than me that say,
I mean, it could happen,but like you know, I think,
I think there's the things I wasreading. I mean, oh, if
it's what people want to hear,but tell me more about how we'll be

(41:52):
living this in five years. Okay, So my understand my understanding from mainly
Reddit is that the corteseps control answerlike not only is the temperature, but
actually evolved in like control like anants, like it's an a, it's
not. It's not like it couldtake over a fucking goofer and do the
same thing, like that's not that'sthat's a video game movie logic. It

(42:13):
would take like many years of mutationsand like before, like before something like
that could happen. So yeah,someone would have had to have already been
taken over by a court deceps toit to be able to even understand what
it's doing. Like, they maybe able to kill us, but they
won't take control of us. They'lljust kill us, right, which is
like you know much better, right, we'll just be dead, which is
fine, better than being clickers orbloaters or whatever the fuck. So so

(42:37):
it sounds like you're you're you're backall in. I mean, I've been
all in with the show. I'mnot going to stop watching it. Look,
I'm all in on this show becauseit's the first time that something video
game has actually been done. Well, let's not kid ourselves like Detective Pikachu
kind of a one off. Alot of the movies a one off.
This is sustained, dude. Thelast Mortal Komma movie was lit. Okay,

(42:58):
the last Mortal Kombat movie was fine. This is already better. This
is making a case to be interpretedseriously as something outside of the game,
right, like Mortal Kombat. Howmany hoops do those movies have to jump
through to make a fucking narrative thatmakes sense? Okay, they're not again,
we already talked about well it isnow if you play the games.

(43:22):
But with this, it's like again, the narrative that they're going from is
so rich and so well defined thatthe show has a pretty to lay up.
But at the end of the day, they could have fucked up super
hard, and they haven't, andthey're and again maybe they will, maybe
they don't stick the landing, Butstill I'm still impressed by the show's commitment
to telling a story that is differentand unique enough to warrant existing as an

(43:46):
adaptation. Yeah, I agree,And I think some could argue maybe they
went the safe rap by not stringtoo far from the narrative. But I
actually think what this means is we'regonna probably see more adaptations of like well
written video game. Yeah, where'sthe God a War Movie? Man?
Or the God a War Show?Trime got the rights, it was like,

(44:07):
yeah, so we'll definitely be seeingthat ball Rog Presents. Now that
the interesting is that is are theygoing to start like in the Greek Times
where he's just like fucking shit up, where they're going to kind of just
maybe hit like through flash Flashback,same three games to Flashback too. They
could tell they could tell us aconcurrent a concurrent story like West World did,

(44:30):
or like Arrow, like what youknow what Arrow on the CW.
No, it was very very hitor missic quality. But ultimately I did
love that show and they had actuallylike there was like the premises He's on
this island for five years and thenhe's Oliver Queen's brought back and like so
like not half the show, butlike a third quarter the show was like

(44:50):
the flashbacks of him living on theisland and then the rest of like the
present time. So I could seethem doing a lot of that. I
know, Uh, you know,when the god A War show comes out,
we'll probably well, here's the thing. I'm a bigger fan of guy.
I'm a bigger fan of those firstthree. Those first three got A
War games are like, we're justinsane, That's what I mean. That
was something that you and I bondedover in middle school in high school,
and I mean, you know,we already have adaptations of it, so

(45:12):
we can't talk about it. Butlike, I'm not Resident Evil man talk.
You know. The thing I wasreading on the subreddit was like,
now that the last of a showcame out and it's actually good, can
can you know what? Who isit? Who's who the fuck? Makes?
Is it? Nuts? Come?It's not Capcom? Like? Can
Capcom actually give a shit now andmake a good Resident Evil thing? Because
like us, unlike Paul Thomas Andersonmovies, for what it's worth, they're

(45:34):
fun, sure, but wouldn't youlike to see an adaptation of Resident Evil
four done by somebody who actually wantedto do something interesting with it? Did
you watch the show that came outof Netflix. Oh my god, the
one with Lance Reddick. It wasactually no, I no, all your
credibility is going down too, likelike the angsty teenage girls were like a

(45:58):
lot, but lance Reddick, Yeah, it was amazing, and like the
Red was always if Lance Reddick wasin this show, he'd be amazing.
Like the world building I thought wasactually quite good in that and like somehow
worked in the world of the games, and it was one of those things
where I was like, oh,I think they kind of found their footing
near the end of the season.I think next season could be interesting,
and that I canceled. So youknow what they're going to adapt if it's
resident enable, They're just going topick up the Ethan story from seven that's

(46:22):
all, which oh yeah, butagain, like that's also just a fucking
movie, Like that's a that's aneasy story to tell, like plenty,
like I could do it, butI'm saying easy as far as like you
have a pretty like strong narrative there. Well, here's my question for you
to close this episode, because we'rekind of on the topic. Now,
do things that are good video gamesneed to be turned into shows? And

(46:43):
if they do what necessitates one versusthegether, Like why is this exist and
not something like well, I guessI maybe is it just financial because like
I said, Gears of War?But like, my god, what would
that take to turn that's like similarto this, right, it's like a
post apocalyptic Christopian thing bungeons my forwhen a man loves his quarterly earnings capitalism.

(47:05):
Hey, I don't know, Primespent how much money on the Lord
of the Ring show? Well adoes a metric fuck ton count as a
number on it? Is that aspreadsheet number you've seen before? Has it
that Jeff Bezos really just wanted ahuge show and boy he got it?
And yeah, I mean that's alsolike you know that that shows a rounding

(47:28):
error for Amazon, like right onit, like yeah it really? Ah
right, Like that's that's money thatwe lost last year at Amazon gift cards.
People didn't with deem. Yeah,but that's all that is. We
saw people Amazon gift cards and nowthey paid for the show. So I
would say that for me, thethings that should be adapted into shows should

(47:50):
should be less big name ips andmore things that like someone could do it
something interesting with, Like there areplenty of ips out there that like would
would kill us, like a showor a movie or something. Not everything
needs to be the Last of Usand Cuphead and Resident Evil like those are
so ubiquitous they're their own brand already. But like can you imagine like an

(48:10):
Underlander tail's pretty big too, butlike I don't know, like something that's
a little bit less the Witcher andthe Last of Us and more B or
C tier being elevated like that,that's what I would like to see.
Well, I mean, like Hollywood, the intimate industry is very much like
a copycat industry, right, Likewe see we see, we see,

(48:30):
we see comics takeoff, like everyone'sdoing comic Shared Universe blah blah. You
know, Uncharted did well, wetalked about right, Uncharted well, Last
those seems to be doing well.You know either More movie that came out
last was it last year? Twoyears ago? Like like like was pretty
well received. So like we're inlike a renaissance, don't you. And
people have like, oh dude,we need ip right, well there you

(48:51):
go. Video games sell a fuckton of copies. They so you have
like really big built in fan basesand like generally the big ones have similoriety,
so even the non gamers, Solike, yeah, I think name
notoriety outside of people like Yeshar andI the gamers in the room. As
what I'm saying, and my betis the next five ten years we're going

(49:14):
to see a lot more video gamecontent. I agree that'll be like the
next not that comic stuff is goingto go away, but I think that'll
be like the next I want tohesity the word oversaturation, but do you
get what I'm saying, Like inthat, I actually think it will be
an oversaturation, But I think anoversaturation comes on the backs of stuff like
this, where it's like five thingsget made that we're good, and then

(49:37):
three thousand things get made that arevarying degrees of good, too bad,
too awful. But again, likewe only I mean, up until this
point, we've had maybe one hundredvideo game movies. It's like a shockingly
no low number. They've all justbeen pretty shitty. But like now I
feel like video games are being,like you said, kind of being recognized
for their narrative quality by more mainstreamHollywood touch Because again Hollywood is the amount

(50:02):
of people I've talked to who areas out of touch with things that I
thought were things everybody knew about isshocking to me. But at the same
time, like, now people knowwhat The Last of Us is, and
like that was a video game thatcame out on the PS three, like
almost over a decade ago. Nowlike a decade a decade ago, right,
Well, the second one is onlya couple of years old. A

(50:23):
couple of years old is light yearsold. And the second one is in
people's backlogs. Now, that's howlong it's been since it came out.
So I mean again, I don'tI don't. I don't think that you're
far off base. I think we'regoing to see everything that has been popular
being adapted. Minecraft fucking Craig Mason'spart of the Borderland's game. He's the
one writing it. Oh yeah,So I mean again, that's a big

(50:45):
one. Halo got its thing thatcame out that you know, I think
nobody liked, but it happened,you know again, Like some things are
going to get adapted finally and probablydone well, and then some things maybe
readapted, like Mario that you knowagain, we make fun of Chris Pratt,
but like a second Mario movies gettingmade and if you saw that first

(51:06):
one, you would never think thatanything would have ever been done again in
a large format. But yet herewe are, so I think you're right,
And yeah, we're gonna got awar show which will continue to add
fuel to the fire. And mygod, can the PlayStation just not be
the one that has all the gamesthat are being adapted, because like Xbox
was Halo and like it sucked sohard, it sucked so hard, Like

(51:29):
Nintendo has like really good ip likeZelda's an obvious like right, but it's
like obviously it's got to be cartoonsthough they're not like doing live I think
Nintendo probably has in giant letters intheir headquarters in Japan, no live action
anything like. And I don't blamethem because they're working with dream Works and
they can make movies that look likethe video games, because the fucking movie

(51:52):
for Mario looks like the game andI don't want to watch. I don't
know if I want to watch alive action Mario movie other than one I
can already go and watch. Imean, Chris Pratt in a mustache and
overalls, who says no, Imean that's what we got with Pedro Pascal
and SNL. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, I'm I'm with you.

(52:12):
I think the oversaturation is coming.But again, as someone who's a video
gamer, yeah, you know,it was like the comic book thing,
like we'll have to watch everything,you know, right, just you know
right? And I don't watch allI don't watch all the comic book stuff
anymore either. Like we've gotten tothe point now where it used to be
you could keep track of everything,and now you can. And you and
I grew up reading comic books.That was something we bonded over. And

(52:35):
it was crazy for us to seea fucking Captain America movie and the Avengers
and all that was insane to us. Imagine people older than us even more
insane. And it is insane tome that The Last of Us is being
adapted as well as it is asa video gamer, as someone who grew
up like you did being told videogames are a waste of fucking time.
Well, now people are watching theTV show, so I guess it must
not have been that big of awaste of time. Yeah, Mom,

(52:58):
yeah, Dad, I mean that'swhat that is. Exactly what this feels
like. It feels like a justificationof the medium in another like sometimes it
takes another medium to validate your medium, right, Like to a wider audience.
I don't think vide game is tobe validated, but yeah, it's
nice to see that. I don'tthink they knew either, but other people
clearly do, like in right,Like, come on, if you're Neil

(53:20):
Drupman, what is one of thereasons you want to have the show made
it so you can be like,see, yeah, I can do it
anywhere, baby, Like yeah,and like I get it, So I'm
all for it. Adapt everything,Take shots that don't hit, because the
things that are going to hit aregoing to come out of the misses,
not out of the successes. That'snormally the way this goes. People figure
out how to make things work afterthey've seen what didn't work, And we

(53:43):
saw twenty years of what didn't workPlant, Blood, Rain, Postal,
the movie Look at You. UveBowl, who was essentially the video game
in the video game movie industry,was him for like a decade? Yeah,
so you know what, I'm gladthat's not it anymore. But at
the same time, we wouldn't behere if not for someone like Uve Bowl.
We wouldn't like, we wouldn't whowas fighting seeing movies he was.

(54:07):
He was, dude, he's agenius. Man. That guy is the
next level genius. He was gettinghe was essentially getting all his movies paid
for by the by the government andtax breaks and shit. Mike of the
Projection Booth has spoken with him multipletimes said he's a super nice guy,
super down to earth, super smartguy. He just takes a bad rap
because he makes bad movies. Butnot everybody's Martin Scorsese, baby, Like,

(54:30):
come on, there's gotta be somebodymaking movies out there for the straight
to DVD crowd, the red boxcrowd. So so, speaking of speaking
of the next time, we're gonnabe talking about Endure and Survive the I
guess more than the halfway point ofthis show. No, it would be
the fifth episode, which she'll bethe halfway point. No, there's only
nine episodes. It was only nineepisodes. And guess what that episode may

(54:52):
be coming to you a little earlier, because I don't know if you saw
My Friend, but that episode iscoming out on Friday, I mean the
next one of the finales coming onFriday. No, No, the episode,
the fifth episode of this show iscoming out four days from now.
To what's on Sunday. Alright,all right, it's the Chiefs. It's

(55:12):
oh, because they want us tosee the Chiefs want us to understands.
Okay, okay, yeah, they'rethey're actually releasing the episode on Friday to
avoid the Super Bowl, which I'venever seen that before. No, And
I'm also like the way like theseshooters and stuff our it's not really like
four live viewership anyway, So it'snot like, oh, I'm gonna like
cancel my HBO po like I like, oh I forgot that that the show

(55:37):
that but whatever, it works forme. Hey, I'll watch the episode
early. We get to see twoepisodes of the show in the same week.
I'm not complaining. So yeah,so we'll be talking about that.
And as always, you can findya Sharon my mushroom head. Oh boy,
now you can't find our mushroom heads. Yeah, you can find our
discussion about people with mushroom heads atweirdingwaymedia dot com, along with a whole

(55:59):
host of other episodes of shows thatyou should totally be checking out if you're
not already. So that's where youcan find us. That's where you can
find this show. And as forthe mushroom people. You can find them
on the Last of Us, theTV show that we've been talking about,
and also on the Super Mario movie. Sorry Chris Pratt, and as always,
we'll catch you on the next episode.