March 2, 2023 • 48 mins
HBO's The Last of Us is an adaptation of the award-winning video game from 2013 that allowed the players to explore the infection-ravaged United States while playing as the two leads Joel and Ellie who are tasked with getting Ellie to the safe zone as she may carry the key to their survival.
Join The Kulturecast's Chris Stachiw and Game of Bros' Yashar Pirasteh as they talk all about episode seven "Left Behind". It's a flashback episode all about Ellie's first love and what happened when she opened up to someone for the first time.
For more episodes of Of Mushrooms & Men along with many more podcasts that are guaranteed to be your new favorite audio obsession, check out Weirding Way Media at weirdingwaymedia.com.
Join The Kulturecast's Chris Stachiw and Game of Bros' Yashar Pirasteh as they talk all about episode seven "Left Behind". It's a flashback episode all about Ellie's first love and what happened when she opened up to someone for the first time.
For more episodes of Of Mushrooms & Men along with many more podcasts that are guaranteed to be your new favorite audio obsession, check out Weirding Way Media at weirdingwaymedia.com.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
We are media. Hello every one, and welcome to of Mushrooms and Men,
(00:40):
a last of Us podcast. Iam one of your hosts, the
host of the Culture Cast, Chrisdash You, and I'm joined by my
good friend and he is the cohost of this show. He is a
clicker at heart. He loves toclick in the night. You might hear
him clicking around to your neighborhood,your friend and mine, You're sharp and
you are the riley to my Ellie. No, how dare an African American
character or died to have a whitecharacter be the savior of this show?
(01:03):
Hey, does anybody know that thisis based off of a video game?
And like that's what happens in thegame. Now, Like I saw a
Slash Films review and they were like, how dare an African American characterized the
white character could be the savior?And it's like, how dare you not
literally realize what this is based offof? Because like they were gonna do
this this way, they were neverOne of the things they were never going
(01:23):
to change was this because there wasno reason for them to change, not
to mention, like pretty much everyonedies except for like I mean not like
again, like a spose. I'mgenerally like when they got to the show.
Besides Joel and Ellie, it's apost apocalyptic show for fuck's sake.
Like, I don't know what youguys expected on this episode of Mushrooms and
Men we're gonna be talking about.The seventh episode of HBO's latest adaptation is
(01:47):
something that they didn't own ahead oftime, the Last of Us. So
this episode is titled Left Behind.It is directed by Lisa Johnson and written
once again by Neil Druckman and itsstars Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal as Jelly
Jelly and Ellie Joel I mean Jelly, I mean hey, you know Joel
and Ellie stars them as Ellie andJoel once again, except this time it's
(02:08):
a flashback episode featuring and focusing allon what Ellie was up to before she
met Joel, Marlene and Tess andwhat was she up to, Well,
she was in a Fedra school,Fedra boarding school, and she met a
girl, fell in love with thegirl, and then they went and snuck
off to a mall together. Andthat's that's the setup of this episode,
(02:30):
folks. It is focusing on theDLC titled Left Behind from the Last of
Us video game that this show isan adaptation of. So all of that
out of the way, Yeshar,what did you think of this? I
think we would both agree inevitable episode. This was the episode we knew what
was going to happen. I think, yeah, well, I wasn't one
hundred percent sure if they were goingto do the DLC, but they mentioned
(02:53):
Riley a couple of times earlier inthe season, and it did. Like
you said, it seemed inevitable.And then once we saw the episode title,
it's named the same thing as theDLCU. Yeah, we get basically
all all the backstory that you everget in the game for Ellie is here
about like who she is, whyshe is, the way she is,
where she came from. Um.I think Liza Johnson directed this episode.
(03:14):
I don't know if she directed anyother episodes in this season. I don't
think she did, but she alsodirected an episode of The Sex Lives of
College Girls, which the show Ialso really enjoy and could also be the
title of this episode or What WeDo in the Shadows another show that she's
directed episode. He said that Iknow if Matthew Berry was in this show,
it would be I think a lotdifferent of a show. My god,
(03:35):
look at those fun guy men chasingafter us, what are they doing?
But yeah, you get to seelike where Ellie comes from a little
bit more on the federal part.And I think we've talked about how it's
interesting how we see like the differentareas of feder and how they integrate with
people's lives, and I think weget a really good scene with was it
Terry Chen early on that kind ofit's like maybe be closer to even probably
(04:00):
a little better than Joel's experience,but definitely like very far moved from the
Casey Fedra and you and you kindof see how they establish like a sort
of meaningful society in a in away where you have the Fireflies being portrayed
as more anarchists, and I thinkeven Ellie kind of pushes Riley on that
point, and you kind of see, like it's definitely not black and white,
(04:20):
like what's good, what's bad?And I like that the show gives
us more of that, and yousee that that like there's not necessarily a
great answer to the question of what'sthe bay best way to have a functioning
society in a world that a lotof the things have been like broken,
like an interesting thing. Actually thepedric I mentioned when he was talking about
(04:40):
the ways that you can die andwe get it that scene more, you
noticed he didn't even mention getting itkilled by clickers, like because they've gotten
to the point where they can actuallymanage that, So it's the other things
you have to worry about. SoI thought that was it was an interesting
an initial caveat, and obviously allthe interactions with Riley and Ellie was like
was heartening. It was sad,but it was also nice, like you
got a sense of wonder that youdon't get a lot in this show.
(05:03):
I don't know what do you thinkof the episode? You know, I
think it was a similarly to lastepisode. It was kind of a slowdown
and pace. Again. I thinkthe show has kind of been clearly kind
of ramping itself up and kind ofestablishing that the narrative is going towards this
inevitable conclusion and this kind of directionof We're going to have an interaction with
(05:24):
the fireflies at some point. ButI think it was smart to kind of
slow the pace of the show downa little bit, give us as much.
I mean, like you said,as much backstory as we need for
Ellie because again, like realistically,and this is kind of an issue with
this show that I think a lotof people, you know, I'm surprised
haven't had is you know, like, what are the motivations why we give
(05:47):
us more flashbacks? Give us moreof what the characters were doing before the
pandemic of the fun Guy or whateveryou want to call it. You know,
the virus taking over before the Yeah, the panny heavy, the panatone
Wow, yeah there, well,they they probably got infected for meeting that
bread. You never know, It'sinteresting that this is as much as we'll
(06:09):
ever get, and I think it'ssmart that this is as much as we'll
ever probably get unless the show wantsto give more, because again, like
these these characters are so smartly writtenthat I don't question what they were doing
before because it, you know,it less is about why they are the
way they are now and more justan experience for us to understand who they
(06:30):
are. Basically, even this isyou're saying, you ap appreciate the episode,
but even if you didn't have it, you were you were finally the
characterization of Elliott. You didn't needit to buy into where we're at with
the characters, right, I mean, and I think that that is a
that is a success of the showin the way that it has written the
characters that this episode I did notneed this episode. That is why it
(06:54):
is DLC. In the game,it is downloadable content. It is additional
content that you can play to furtherincrease your enjoyment of the game, or
help recontextualize things or give you abetter look at things that they're talking about.
Again, in the game, Rileyis not mentioned as much as she's
been mentioned in the show, butshe can be mentioned in the show because
(07:16):
they know they're going to tell thisstory and they know that people who are
watching the show have played the game, have played the DLC, so they
know if they say Riley, peoplewho are in the know will know,
and people who aren't will have it. In this episode explain for them and
kind of shown to them what theykeep mentioning and why Ellie. Again,
Ellie is the way she is fromthe start. Clearly she has been this
(07:40):
way. Even when we meet her, she's not abrasive, she's abrasive,
then she's stuck in her ways.Then when we meet her at the beginning
of this episode the earliest we've everseen her in the context of the show.
So it's not that she's a differentcharacter and this is a transformative moment.
It just it gives you, theaudience kind of a look at her
(08:01):
moment that we saw with Joel atthe beginning of the show. It that's
all this is. It's just usseeing that initial moment of trauma that she
has that is, I guess,a transformative moment. But again, Ellie
is very much going to be transformedmore by what happens in this show in
the timeline of the show versus theflashback stuff. So yeah, I don't
(08:22):
think it was needed, but Iappreciate it. But we knew they were
going to do it. But theshow has been doing such a good job
of writing the characters that if theyhad never done this, I don't think
anybody would have said, ah,man, what a shame. Like maybe
some people would be disappointed, butI think that the love story that the
show has already done may have overshadowedhow good this episode also could have been.
(08:43):
Oh you mean the Bill and Frank, right, And I think the
love story component of it is important, But I don't think that's the crux
is to be like, Oh,Ellie is heart bro it's I think the
friendship supersedes the love that was moreof Ellie has discovered and accepted this thing
(09:03):
about herself that I think will playmore down the road in the story rather
than Oh, this is all abouther losing her first love. No,
it's about her losing the only connectionshe ever had. Like we'd learned Riley
had a family, so Riley likeknows what loss is. Ellie doesn't like.
Death is sort of this like weird, almost not real thing to her
because it's constantly surrounding her in thecontext of growing up in the QZ.
(09:26):
But she's I think she was actuallyshe was like too young to unders like
remember losing her parents, so likeshe never had to have the connection and
then the loss. The only thingshe had was Riley. She obviously didn't
have that many friends. She's abit standoffish and stubborn, but clearly smart,
and so this is the one connectionshe loses by the end of the
episode, and maybe it recontextualizes whyeven though she took a while to warm
(09:50):
up to Joel, she's kind ofattached to him because this is like a
safety she hasn't had in a longsince Riley or maybe ever, and so
makes it more important for her tomaintain that. But she but also it
allows her to stay divorced, Ithink from a lot of the trauma and
horrible things that are occurring around her, for better or worse, like when
(10:11):
she last at the dead body,right. Well, And I think that's
the other thing about you know thisepisode is you know, by the time
we see Ellie and the show,it's not made clearer how much time has
passed. I guess it would belike what a couple of weeks, three
weeks, right is what they say, since she's been bitten, right,
(10:31):
it's been it's been like, youknow, weeks to it couldn't be more
than a couple of months right fromthe end of this episode. Speaking of
the first episode, right, soyou know this character again, like is
it pretty much the character that wesee when we meet her, So,
you know, it's I don't know, it's it's interesting. I really appreciated
the you know, the performances inthe episode. I think storm Read is
(10:54):
fantastic, not a thankless role,but you know, you know that this
character is around past this episode sothey have to do more to give their
audience an idea of like why thisis important because we know this character is
not going to survive, Like thereis nothing that could be changed about that,
because we are already further in thenarrative at this point. So I
(11:18):
think she's I think she's really charming. I think she plays really well off
of Bella Ramsey. I think thisis also a really interesting episode for Bella
Ramsey because she does a really goodjob in carrying the episode almost on her
own. And I would say atthe beginning of this show, I was
concerned if this episode would work becauseI think you and I both coming into
(11:39):
the show were a little hesitant onBella Ramsey. We know Pedro Pascal can
knock it out of the park.He always does. I mean, in
this episode, he's lying on hisback the entire episode, and even then
he's fantastic. I think he wasprobably, you know, filming an episode
of The Mandalorian this week. Airquotes he got like six hundred thousand dollars
for this episode. Man was lyingon his back for two scenes and he
got paid six undred k. Hisagent is unbelievable. His agent is getting
(12:03):
paid like six probably at least sixK an episode that he does, because
his agent's probably taken like ten percentat least. I think, can you
imagine can you imagine? Well,right, sorry, sixty k, you're
right, sorry, My math isterrible. It's even worse. Can you
imagine getting sixty k an episode asthis dude's agent for him to just be
like, I'm on my back thewhole episode, Like all right, bro,
(12:26):
it's fucking great. Like he's gottalike, I know, he's not
the highest paid actor like per episode, but if you think about like per
minute of work, he's gotta beup. He like the highest paid actor
on TV right now. I meanhe might be, but my point is,
like the actual effort, like sixhundred K for like two minutes of
screen time is you know, prettydope? Dude? You wouldn't. You
wouldn't pass that gig up anymore thanI would. No, no, no,
(12:50):
I would even wear a helmet andcover my face the whole time.
Right. But but Bella Ramsey waskind of the question going into the show,
not that I had any issue withtheir casting. Look, it's not
like I love the last of usgoing into this show. I hadn't even
finished the game, so I didn'thave an emotional connection with either character to
the point where I was angry thata certain person wasn't being cast. Look,
(13:11):
Ellen Page was the inspiration for thecharacter, not according not according to
the creators, but yere right,But but Elliott Page would not be playing
the the Ellie character obviously, evenif he took the whole transition out of
it. Too old at this point, right right, That's about That's my
point. Like, even all ofthat aside, even if it was based
(13:33):
off of them before they transition,they're like in their thirties now, so
not gonna work. But when youhave the character being played by Bella Ramsey,
who, again Bella Ramsey is nineteenbut looks the age, I think
that that was smart to cast someonewho looks younger but is older, versus
(13:54):
casting someone who was younger, becauseI just think that they well, no,
I'm talking about, like you,someone who's fourteen to actually play a
fourteen year old, I just don'tknow if they could rise to the occasion
the way Bella Ramsay has. AndI'm not saying all child actors are bad,
but they say don't work with animals. And kids for a reason,
and pre eighteen, you're still akid as far as I'm concerned, even
(14:16):
if you're a teenager. And they'reprobably taking like a like a longer term
view on this, Like in thesecond game, we know there's like a
several year gap, four or fiveyears, so like Ellie is an adult
in the second game, So ifthey're thinking of, hey, we want
some sort of continuity, but Imean, I guess you could recast,
but it seems like they would ratherkeep the same people than yeah, you
cast, what a little oil Theycan play younger and then in the next
(14:39):
one, I assume she'll be essentiallyher real aid well, and in the
video game between the first and thesecond one, it's a couple of years,
right, like three or four years. Three or four years, yeah,
which would actually take her to likeeighteen ninety. I mean, like
she's in like an adult relationship andstuff like that, Like like she's an
adult, like she's self sufficient,and I mean, good second, but
(15:00):
like she is like an adult,right, But I mean, look,
that's that's not surprising I think foranyone, even if you don't know where
the second game goes. But Ithink more to my point this episode,
I think finally I am comfortable saying, like Bella Ramsey is a fantastic actress,
and that scene where she watches thelights turn on in the mall,
(15:22):
I mean, her ability to kindof be convincing and her reaction to that,
I think is just really impressive.I think she's a fantastic actress.
And look, I don't think hertime on Game of Thrones or The Worst
Witch on Netflix is indicative of heracting ability. I think this is.
And I think the second season ofthis show is going to be the Bella
(15:43):
Ramsey hour. And I think weboth know that, maybe not the second
season, but definitely the third season. Yeah, if you and I,
I mean we've never even talked aboutthat at at length, but I think
we both like kind of ev espingone another, like we're able to connect
and know kind of where it's goingbecause again, like the story in the
(16:03):
second game is a lot different.It's a lot less straightforward, there's a
lot more moving not moving parts,but the timeline is a little less straightforward
as this one is more or lesschronological. Yeah, so you know that
was kind of my big concern goinginto this episode, was Isabella Ramsey going
to be able to carry an episodeon her own, and I think she
does, and I think this isactually a better episode for it, for
(16:27):
them just going let's just do it. Let's do the episode where she has
to do everything. There's these littlemoments when she's in the mall. Obviously
it's all quite new to her,but like the thing where they go to
Victoria's Secret or was a Victoria's secretor a Victor's secret, like, and
she like looks at the launch rayyou can kind of see like she has
a glance, she looks in themin the mirror. I interpreted that as
she kind of wants to look goodfor Riley, you know, So she
(16:48):
was like fell the little because she'slike, oh, I don't look like
this woman this like you know,more traditional heteronormative like ideal of Obviously,
as we learned, Ellie not particularsurprisingly as a lesbian, so she hasn't
I think, maybe fully come toterms with that, at least with Riley.
And then she's also like feeling abit uncomfortable in her skin, and
just these little micro moments I thinkshow the depth of the character and like
(17:12):
a really like masterful show of acting. And they both leads played really well
off one another, and I wouldhave liked to see a bit more time
with them, But that's not reallywhat this shows about. It's about like
love and loss and like the thingsthat love makes you do, good and
bad. And I think this isjust emphasizing that, like Joel has lost
(17:33):
someone that he loves, his daughterright and tests now, and you know
Ellie has lost someone that she lovesand how do people that are broken find
that and come back together. Ithink that that resonated with me. And
then you also get the underlying tensionbetween the Fireflies and Fedra. I think
that we mentioned earlier. You wantto actually get into that. Did you
like that scene about the fed withthe Fedra agent. I think it was
(17:53):
interesting. I mean, I thinkit's maybe a little heavy handed, but
again, like but I don't Ithink for the sake of the audience,
it's best to be a little heavyhanded here, because for people that aren't
game players, they really need tomake it clear as to what's going on
and kind of beat you over thehead with it, because if you're a
video game player, and if you'veplayed the Last of Us, it's not
(18:15):
going to come as a surprise,how you as the gamer should feel about
Fedra and how you should feel conflictedin this scene. But they need to
show you as an audience member thatEllie is conflicted, and by her being
conflicted, you as the audience shouldbe conflicted as well as opposed to a
video gamer just knowing you know,Fedra is pretty bad, but that's informed
(18:36):
by a lot of things that yousee while playing the game. I mean,
we've seen Fedra in the show,but the Fedra that we've seen,
the Boston Fedra seemed like the bestFedra best, you know, relative through
Kansas City, and you know,but Kansas City is really the only other
one we've really seen. So buteven the Terry, he's been another a
(18:56):
lot of other stuff, like aHouse of Cards like that. I liked
his performance because he even says,you know, I know, if we're
not here, people are either goingto starve or like kill each other.
And we have seen the what happens, you know, when Feder's not there,
And you could say, maybe he'srationalizing things, and you know,
is he just like almost trying toput like propaganda on Ellie? Maybe a
(19:19):
bit, but I think he doesbelieve that, and like, somewhere deep
down, this is a guy thatprobably generally is trying to do the right
thing or what he thinks it's theright thing, and it's it's like a
trade off. I think you haveto making a society like this, and
I'm happy, like we're not ina place where we have to think,
like which one you'd rather have?But we see the Fireflies are a bit
(19:40):
wild and les like, oh,I would never bomb you know, near
you, But the fact that shehas to say like she has to do
it means like the fireflies probably wouldand like is that cost enough to not
deal with Fedra? We haven't this. We've seen the Fireflight people working together
and it seems like that works.So we haven't really seen them like running
entire cities or like people that aren'tin the cause, Like what does that
(20:02):
look like? Well? And theykind of they talk more about that in
the game, right, And that'sthe incompetency of the Fireflies ends up kind
of playing more into where this showor I guess where the game ends up
going. The show, the directionthe show is going seems a lot more
focused on love and the choices wemake because of love and I'm not saying
(20:22):
that the game isn't that, butthe game has a different component to it
that is also kind of you understandingthat the world around you is kind of
fucked like, and everything is kindof fucked and even the people that are
trying to do good like maybe necessarilycan't. And that's not particularly clear in
the show, and I'm not surethat it needs to be. Maybe they'll
(20:47):
wheel that out in the next twoepisodes, because again, I mean,
we're going to see more of that. But the best I can tell from
the preview for the next episode,it's going to be some sort of Troy
Baker led David is some sort ofannibals, I'm or some shit, I'm
sure, But Troy Baker is there, that's all I know, and he
just they keep showing him over andover again. All I can think is
(21:07):
if I didn't play David, Iknow he's playing some like some like a
like a lackey of him. Butthey kept showing him over and over again.
I was like, Hey, that'sthe guy who plays Joel over and
over again. It's like most peoplewould not know who that is. Who
are watching the show, I feellike they recognize his voice but yeah you
would. I'm not even sure he'snot even doing the Joel voice, like
(21:29):
I mean, it is kind ofhis voice, but yeah, what is
he like san Antonio wised I thinkis yeah, he's Southern for sure.
Yeah, yeah, No, It'slike I like this. The show hasn't
really taken a clear stance, likea moral stance on pedro fireflies. It's
more of just like, here's aninformation about both. Neither of them is
(21:49):
probably totally right either, it's probablytotally wrong. There's definitely things that are
wrong. Um, and I thinkEllie kind of brings him out to light
with Riley, and Riley does toEllie. And it's just one of those
things that I don't need an answeron. But it's nice to just keep
keep alive in the back of ourheads to understand, like this is more
than it's not like Walking Dead whereit's just like people in zombies, like
(22:10):
there's there is some societal functioning goingon, and like there are there's some
tension about what that should look like. Well, and I wonder you know
again, because the way the narrativeis being presented, we do see kind
of, like you said, nota stance being taken on Fedra or the
Fireflies. I do wonder if inthe next two episodes we'll see that.
(22:30):
I mean the next episode probably not, but the last episode, I feel
like they've got to get into itsomehow, given where where they're going with
the gotta take Ellie somewhere storyline.Yeah, but I don't I mean even
in the game finale, like Idon't really think I had a strong feeling
like how it felt about like theFireflies, and I don't know, and
like generally the mission that's the Firefliesat least that the Gates portraying just around
(22:52):
you know, using Ellie for acure, right, that's like the whole
premise is getting her for a cure, Like who wouldn't support that? So
I don't know, we'll see,we'll see if they're if they're populism,
you know sticks. But I dolike that we get to finally see a
FEDRA agent interact with someone in aless aggressive and abrasive way, because up
until this point it's just been youknow, the one FEDRA agent that Joel
(23:15):
was kind of selling drugs too,but also then killed to death with his
bare fucking hands. You can't convinceme he didn't kill that guy, Like,
yeah, my guess is that dude'sprobably not alive. As Joel Kerry,
he's never going back to Boston U. And then obviously we've seen like
we've heard about what the feder peoplein Cancer. They sided like a not
(23:37):
great bunch, right, But yeah, so it's interesting and I think I
also wanted on the on the Rileypiece, like it was a bit unclear,
like did Fedra anything with her parents'death or like they're maybe unrelated,
but because she's lost that like shedoesn't. I don't know Fedra makes her
feel uncomfortable, like what pushed hertowards the fireflies And it could have just
(23:59):
been like an ideological like Pedro keepsus safe. But I don't like the
parameters of like we can't go outat night and like you know, we
have to listen to them and theyhang people who you know, they've said
of committed crimes just kind of barbarous. But you know, I don't know,
Well, they kept calling they keepcalling them fascists, but like,
yeah, we don't see a lotof the fascism that they talk about.
We haven't seen it yet, Like, well, all we've seen the best
(24:21):
I can tell. What we've seenis like them trying to keep the people
in the Quzi safe. Yeah,I mean to go back to the pretty
much everyone from the Cake Kansas CityWent's saying like they were literally great being
killing and murdering, and so Ibelieve that. But yeah, we haven't
seen it, but it does seemlike they assign you your work, because
Riley says, you know, shegets assigned to guard you, but she's
actually in FEDRA, but guard dutyfor like the stalls and basically like shit
(24:45):
holes. But it also seems likeFedra's probably the if you're going to get
any job in the Quzi, probablystill the best job to have. And
like we're all of these recruits allorphans or were some of them volunteers,
some of them wanted to do it. I don't really need those answers,
but it's interesting world building. Well, it's interesting that there's like a school
where they're running around with electricity,Like it was weird and interesting to see
(25:07):
that because again, like in alot of ways, that is a typical
of a And again I mentioned iton last show. I mentioned it here.
You've already mentioned The Walking Dead,a zombie show. Unquote like you
just don't see that, and Ilike that there are these slower moments.
Look, I mean, the entiresetup of this episode only goes in one
direction, one end or both ofthem have to get bit in this scenario,
(25:30):
because Ellie is immune, she hasto get bit. But in another
narrative, it would have been thetwo of them together and then Riley gets
bit and Ellie doesn't. Right,I mean it's that that would have been
the way that this had been told, because that's essentially right, right,
right, because again they kind oftold that with Joel's character, right,
you know, she doesn't get infected, but she dies anyways, you know,
(25:53):
one of them survives. It's justEllie has to be bitten. Because
the entire premise of the show thegame is oh, she's immune, but
this is where we find out thatshe's immune. That that setup is so
boiler plate. I'm glad that theylanded it by having those quieter moments of
them playing Mortal Kombat two, whichI know is a change from the video
(26:14):
game where they game the Turning.I think, yeah, Mortal Kombat two
is better, Like people know thatone better. I don't know what the
Turning is well and I and Iand they have the Mortal Kombat two poster
in her room, which I thinkwas a kind of an interesting callback where
it's like this thing you've never playedand then you're finally able to play it
for real in real life. LikeI think that was. I know that
was. That was nice, kindof like a nice little callback within the
(26:36):
episode itself. And you know what, though, they did look like they
were playing Mortal Kombat too, Umyou know what I mean. Yeah,
no, I think they were playingMortal Komba. No no, no,
no, like no, no,Like it actually looked like they were playing
Mortal Kombat too, because like inin TV shows about where characters are playing
video games, it's always like clickany clack, click any clack, I
don't know what I'm doing. Like, well, I mean they were,
(26:59):
and I want I've been there,like I remember being like that in this
right, But like even then,when they looked like they didn't know what
they were doing, it was believableand like that is something that for someone
like myself, for someone like youwho plays video games fairly regularly, like
it's something that I always notice.It's like when a characters at a computer
and they're typing, and it's likethese really exaggerated hand motions, like nobody
(27:22):
uses a computer. You're like,I just I just hacked into the Pentagon.
Yeah, it's like you just fuckingtyped real fast and didn't type anything.
Like I appreciate those little touches becauseit adds to not the just the
realism of the show, but itfeels like the creators of the show are
being conscientious of these things. Yeah, I mean they want you to feel
like this, like this could havereally happened, or this could have been
(27:44):
what like the thing like, thesearen't just people going from point at point
B. They're living these experiences,and these are experiences that we know a
lot of our viewers are familiar within some way or another, like being
in them all cointed an arcade.I would really like the scene where they
go to the cost Him Halloween shopand like they have the mask on and
they're both wearing masks, but youcan like almost sense Ellie's sadness, like
(28:07):
it was it's hard to explain,but like it was her body language and
the way she takes it off andshe kisses Riley, and I think that
moment actually makes the fact that Rileyis quite tragic because she gets Riley to
say, I'm going to leave andlike join the fireflies and bomb shit and
do all kinds of things that areprobably a seventeen year old shouldn't be doing.
And Riley's like, no, I'llstay for you. And like in
(28:29):
that moment, Ellie gets and everythingshe could have possibly wanted, and then
she immediately loses it. But that'sthis show in a nutshell, right,
Like this show juxtaposes those like momentsof love with like moments of just like
loss and they and they, Imean they did it with Henry and Sam,
right, oh we got away andwe're all safe, just kidding,
just kidding, like and God,God, God him. Yeah, I
(28:52):
mean it's the same thing like withUm with oh what tests or bellin for
rank or tests, or like mostof the characters in this show, they
have this moment of kind of triumphand then it's like just kidding, I
got bit or just kidding, Iwant you know, I have an MS
or whatever the hell Bill and Frankwere dealing with. Like those moments are
(29:14):
juxtaposed almost like next to each other, like right on top of one another.
And I appreciate it. The showis not pulling any punches. I
mean again, it's not it's likewe've never seen this before. It's just
done rather well here. Yeah,I think it's nothing in this episode is
like whoa, I've never seen theconcept of young love or you know.
I mean, I guess the lesbiansare just slightly different, but like not
(29:37):
really and it's been hinted at aneven more Yeah, and it was hinted
at. Remember in like episode twoor something that someone asked Ellie if she
had a boyfriend and she's like shegives like a look where that it's like
not even an option. Ellie don'tneed no man to define her exactly.
So uh yeah, but it's Iguess though, even you say the last
(30:00):
of Us that the individual pieces nothingis totally original, And I don't mean
that like disparagingly, but it takesa lot of existing like storytelling infrastructure and
like puts it together in a waythat I think most people haven't experience it
being like such a human centered storyin it like a quote unquote zombie apocalypse.
And it's also about like these peoplewho aren't completely morally righteous as well
(30:25):
that we're following, but supporting.You know, in two weeks, Ted
Lasso Season three comes out right andit is very similar to this show in
a lot of ways. It's honestabout it is. It's honest about its
human emotions in a way that asports show normally isn't. Just the way
this show is pretty honest about humanemotions in a way a show like The
Walking Dead hasn't been since like thesecond season, to focus on the characters
(30:51):
and their emotional well being and theiremotional states of being and saying that's the
driving factor, not the action,not the bloaters, not whatever else is
happening in the world at the time. To say that the characters and their
interactions and emotions is what's going todrive the narrative is again, that's a
newer thing. I mean again,you know, not everybody for the longest
(31:15):
time was focused on actual character growthwhen they were writing a story. They
were worried about big action set piecesand whether or not people are going to
be entertained by ship being blown upand zombies being shot. And there have
been shockingly little zombies or the zombieequivalents in this show killed on screen.
This is like the fourth one maybe, And this is the first time we've
(31:37):
seen like some real extended close combataction outside of what when Joel killed that
clicker in episode yeah and this isepisode seven. Well, no, we
got, we got, we gotthe bloater at that scene. But that
wasn't close. That wasn't like handto hand combat, which is a lot
of the game mind You is handto hand combat and hitting clickers with pipes
(31:59):
and ricks and bottles and others shitand stabbing them and like this kind of
echoes that. But it's interesting becausethis show and ted Lasso and some other
kind of more well written shows arefocusing on the characters and what is driving
them within the world and then thescenarios that they're in. It's interesting to
(32:21):
see those characters in those scenarios becauseyou understand the fully formed nature of the
characters and just I'd never got thatwith The Walking Dead. This is almost
the antithesis of what The Walking Deadwas, was and is and has done
since the second or third season.I mean, I don't want to think
about The Walking Dead. I don'teven want to talk about the Walking Dead.
(32:43):
That's I mean, that's that.But that's because that show gave up
writing interesting characters. This show hasthree seasons in it. It's not going
to go more than that, notwith these characters, and it shouldn't and
it shouldn't go more than that.I don't know if they go beyond the
games, we'll see, right,but like, if they go on the
game's great. But that's like ifwe all agree that a Last of Us
(33:05):
three isn't coming out in the nextfour years, which I can't equivocally say
any more than you can, thenthe show might have four or five seasons,
sure, but right now it's moreor less going to be three seasons
unless they go past the game.And if they do, great, But
I'm still confident that the people whoare writing the show understand that it's a
character driven show because it has beenthis whole season. There has been not
(33:30):
enough action to keep people who areexpecting a zombie adjacent show where zombies are
being killed every episode. There's notenough for them to stick around, I
would think, But there's enough ifyou're into a well written character drama with
a post apocalyptic trappings. It's acharacter piece, and like I think that's
would be surprising to some people whohave played the game, which is an
(33:52):
action game, because there's plenty ofit, Like, there's so much of
just killing and shooting and strangling,shiving and crafting and everything else, and
there's like none of it in thisAnd I'm thankful for that because honestly,
a video game adaptation that worries aboutwhether or not only able to show the
action on the big screen often overlookswriting believable characters. And this did the
(34:15):
inverse and it totally works. Didyou what do you think about? Like,
I know there wasn't much of it, but there was some like key
Joel stuff in the episode, Likedid you like it? Just like it
wasn't that memorable? I think obviouslymore or less And then you would have
to correct me on this because Ihaven't played the DLC. Is the DLC
used to juxtapose the relationship with Ellieand Joel getting stronger to the point of
(34:39):
like catalysts catalyzing, Because that's whatthis episode more or less does, is
it shows the side of this thatwe didn't like. We saw the Joel
side of it last episode, andnow we see the Ellie side of it
this episode. The DLC is usedin a different way, correct because the
function here makes sense narrative why itcomes at this point in the story.
(35:01):
It's similar in the sense of Ellielike does some things that saves Joel's life.
It's much more action oriented, wherelike she's literally foraging for supplies to
save Joel and she kills like aton of people, like a ton of
like bandits. So it's much I'mmore action focused. Didn't really make obviously
that's for the game, right,it's like mission yeah, yeah, okay,
yeah, when it's you have theflashbacks and you have like the flashboards.
(35:23):
But the core function is she isthere in a time when Joel cannot,
like she does save Joel's life withouther, Joel dies in the game
and in the show, and inthe show, like Joel's obviously trying to
like tell Ellie to leave him becausehe thinks that's the only way he can
protect him. Right, he pushesher away, and you know, when
she comes back because she's found somethings to so up his wound, he's
(35:45):
crying. I wasn't sure. Ithink he was crying because like he thought
he was gonna lose Ellie. I'veheard other interpretations like maybe he was crying
because he felt like her last memoryof him is going to be or pushing
away or whatever. But I don'tknow what was your take that I thought
he was crying because he knew wherethis is heading, like he knows that
(36:05):
he like like, yeah, he'sready to hurt again like that, and
and like and that he may haveto make a decision in the future that
is not going to be an easyone. Like I know, we know
he doesn't know what the stakes arefor making the vaccine. We know he
doesn't know that yet, because Idon't think he would continue doing this if
he knew, because the decision heends up making. But I think it's
(36:29):
him realizing that, like, yeah, he's at the point now where he
is going to be really hurt shouldanything happen to her. And it's like
it's that moment of him realizing,like it's all over now, like anything
that happens from here on out,Like he's making decisions to protect her himself,
right, And I think to readit the other way is a perfectly
(36:51):
valid way of reading. And Ithink, look, a lot can be
said with no dialogue at all,And I think it's a testament to Pedro
Pascal as an actor that you canglean two or three close but not necessarily
the same interpretations from him just onthe ground crying while she sews up his
stomach. Yeah. So, likeI said, I know, it's it's
(37:13):
a relatively you know, probably lessthan five minutes or so, six minutes
of the episode, but in thecontext of what it sets up, like
she saves his life, their bondgets deeper, like it is going to
be important and carry through, Ithink in the next final two episodes of
the season. So I appreciate themfor not completely ignoring that. And I
wonder if we're going to return toRiley and Ellie. I don't think so.
I don't think there's a point.I think, you know, some
(37:35):
people might be interested to see howthat plays out, but I don't think
you need to see it at theDLC. Does this show as much as
the DLC shows, or does itshow I think I think it's similar,
where like you don't exactly see howRiley, you know, like they spend
their well, they I think theyboth think it's their final moments together,
but I don't really think you seeRiley's transition in Yeah, like it's like,
okay, yes, do you wantto explain everything to the audience.
(37:58):
Maybe, but I think it alsolike we really need to see that from
Ellie's perspective, like just know thatshe had a little bit more time with
the person that she loved and like, unfortunately and also fortunately in the context
if she's a survivor and his immuneshe lost that person. I don't really
think we see like their last daytogether or whatever last six hours. Probably
not, But that's very atypical forthis kind of narrative to cut it short
(38:21):
before you see the conclusion to thatpart of it. Most of the time
it's you have to shoot him.That's not your husband, brother's son,
whatever anymore like that. We didn'tget any of that, And again I
think it's just smart storytelling on thepart of once again Neil Druckman, who
has a wrangle on not only writingfor video games clearly, but also writing
(38:42):
for television. I will be shockedif he doesn't write another television show or
do something after this. I mean, yeah, I mean he's well,
like not associated with the video gameshe's worked on, like its own thing
entirely, Like I I believe hecould do that without a source material of
his own to adapt, is whatI'm getting at I'm sure he has probably
like other scripts and ideas that he'swanted to pitch his games that he might
(39:06):
just go straight to, like thescreen or you know, someone'll hire him
to adapt something they want. Butat the same time, like he also
like he has he has like look, every video game he's worked on has
been massively successful. Everything he's workedon in the last ten years, from
what uncharted to last games he wason a at least at least three and
(39:28):
four, all of them boards likeconsidered the best one too. He wrote
one, two, four, Hedidn't write three. That's okay. Three
is like the not I think threeis the worst of all of them.
Three is about his Three is betterthan the first one, but the second
one is my jam for sure.The way the second game opens is just
masterful. The train, the trainin the in the Mountains is just I've
(39:54):
never played a video game that hookedme as quickly as that game. Bit
and like, I after how kindof the first game was, that second
game was just like, Yeah,I remember liking that game a lot.
I've gone back and played it acouple of times and it still holds up.
Especially, I mean, everything there'syet easy. There's Shambala, there's
a chase on rooftop with a helicopter. There's a chase on a train with
(40:15):
a helicopter. There's so much stuffin that game. We don't get Nazi
zombies in the Uncharted movie now thatI'm remembering it, the Nazi zombies were
a wild twist, oh from thefirst game. Yeah, well, hey
man, I didn't even see thatUncharted movie. Like it. It was
good, But it's like as afew set pieces from the game, but
it's not like the premise is obviouslyyou know, hunter blah blah blah,
(40:38):
but the actual story is not particularlysimilar, obviously because Drake is just so
much younger, And well, isn'tit like a story told in the Uncharted
universe? Is what? It's?What is? Ye happened? Said?
It's not an adaptation of the game, no one. No, there's like
set pieces that are from the games, but yeah, overall it's it's yeah,
(40:59):
it's like, hey, this couldhave been another Uncharted thing that Drake
did, and but it's And look, I mean the thing that I will
say when we talk about adaptations ofthings, I don't think adapting video games
into movies is the way to go. I think I don't even think adapting
most things into movies is the wayto go. I think it's adapting them
into television is the way to go, especially when it's a narrative that's fairly
(41:22):
complex, that has some beats toit that you need to let breathe.
Because I can imagine this as amovie or two movies, and it could
have been okay. I guess Ijust felt it would have felt like it
would have been rushed and overcrowded,and things would have been certain narrative beats
would have been sacrificed. We're probablynot getting the whole bill in frank thirty
(41:42):
minutes soft the side, no brand we're probably not getting the Left Behind
DLC done in its entirety. Youprobably gain just like the last part or
something, or like flashbacks to itor something like something that's a little less
nuanced than the show can. Andagain, the show is showing it's almost
the whole thing, but it's doingit in a way where even then if
(42:04):
you've seen it before, it feelsnew and exciting. And again you're not
just sitting and going on, I'mwaiting for Riley and Ellie to get bit
like there's enough that you as anaudience member, I think are given in
this episode where it's entertaining, evenif you again know where this is going,
and even if you don't know wherethis is going, you know where
this is going at this point inthe show. I liked it. I
(42:25):
think it was a good episode.I don't know. I don't know what
the rest. I've heard that thelast two episodes of the show kind of
slowed down a lot. Yeah,some of the some of the reviews I
read were the last two episodes kindof dragged a little bit with people who
have seen the entire show. Yeah, up ahead and ahead of time.
(42:45):
Yeah, so that's interesting just basedon like, I know the overarching story
points, and I was like,they're both like seem a bit more actionally
from my recollection. So I'm interestedto see what it looks like. And
they have said the end of thefirst season is coincide at the end of
the first game, so it's notlike there's gonna be a cliffhanger or something
like that. Right, Well,there might be a cliffhanger, but I
(43:07):
think we'll know. I don't know. They have to do something to like
leave the audience wanting, wanting towith something to chew on. Yeah,
but I meant like cliffhangers in,like, oh, we didn't finish the
narrative at the first game. Idon't know. Maybe I don't know.
I mean they might like maybe theymaybe they lied to us. And season
two is just like the last youknow, two hours of the game.
(43:28):
We'll see. That would be insanity. I don't think they would do that
though, And crazy things have happenedattack when I'm Titan. The final season
has three separate parts, so well, that's fair. Look, I think
that the show is in an interestingposition now because I would think and you
might agree, that we're clearly inthe in the scope of this being Ellie's
show now, like Joel has takena little bit of a back seat,
(43:50):
he may be taking a back seatin the next episode as well, And
I'm I'm super excited to see whatthat means for the show and also for
how it sets up the final episodeof the show. So yeah, because
now we're here, we're at theend of the show effectively with two episodes
from the end. Yeah, No, I'm I'm interested see where it goes.
Like I think this episode was reallygood. Probably not quote unquote necessary,
(44:13):
but I liked it, and Ithink it the show's better for it.
Yeah, I will say that ofthe episodes we've seen so far,
this might be the one way youcan kind of take it out. I'm
not saying it's bad, and Idon't think you are either. But nature
of the story is it wasn't coreto the narrative like in the game either,
right, it was DLC for areason. It was just more to
(44:34):
contextualize the character of Ellie. Andagain, it's smart to put it in
here because hey, you've got nineepisodes to phil, this should be one
of them. It's going to beinteresting visually, it's going to be a
showcase for the actors involved. Butyeah, I mean it's it's not necessary
to the narrative overall, but youknow, hey, an hour long diversion
(44:55):
with these two characters is fine.I will go back to what I said
before. Or it maybe doesn't hitas hard because we've already seen a better
love story with a better conclusion thatdidn't feel as wrote as this one kind
of did earlier in the season.So that might be the unintended consequence of
the Bill and Frank episode, isit kind of diminishes the emotional impact that
(45:19):
this episode might have had otherwise.And again, like we were commenting on
that episode, like isn't it surprisingthat these two characters have a happy ending
in a post apocalyptic show, andlike, yeah, it is surprising,
And then we come to this episodeand it's like and here is how it
always ends, and it's like,I didn't don't know if I needed to
see this, because like, Iget that this is what happened, but
(45:39):
there was no other way to doit other than to give it in a
full episode to breathe, and I'mglad that. I am glad that they
gave it a full episode and theydidn't try to like because the other way
to do this is like Pepper theflashbacks in throughout the season, and you
have the flashbacks playing concurrently with thenarrative, and then when you get towards
the end of the season, youknow, Westworld style, you have that
(46:00):
reveal of this is how Ellie gotbit. But like, I just I
think that this, you know,this is the path of least resistance if
you're going to tell the narrative theway they've been telling it, which is
more or less, you know,narratively chronologically straightforward. It's something this show
has shown that it can do well, and that the more time we give
these characters, I think it's forthe it's the better for it. And
(46:22):
I think it was a nice littlerest bit. And I'm really interested in
last episodes take us like as someonewho I think I know what's going to
happen, I'm still really interested tosee, like how it's going to translate.
Same. So on that note,on the next episode of this you'll
be hearing us talking about the eighthand penultimate episode of the first season and
last of us. That episode istitled When We Are in Need. Until
(46:45):
then, you can find you Sharand I over at weirdingwaymedia dot com,
which is a repository and suppository forall audio things that you should be sticking
in your ear, not in yourbutt. As for this show, yeah,
whoa, you can't listen to yourasshole, but maybe you can.
I don't know. Maybe you haveyour shar has ears on his butt.
Maybe I don't know. As forthis show, you can find us on
(47:07):
all streaming platforms iTunes, Spotify,and the like rate and review of the
show helps us out and helps theclickers find us quicker. Until then,
big thanks from me, shar andI for you listening to the show.
Catch up on the next episode.
We are media. Hello every one, and welcome to of Mushrooms and Men,
(00:40):
a last of Us podcast. Iam one of your hosts, the
host of the Culture Cast, Chrisdash You, and I'm joined by my
good friend and he is the cohost of this show. He is a
clicker at heart. He loves toclick in the night. You might hear
him clicking around to your neighborhood,your friend and mine, You're sharp and
you are the riley to my Ellie. No, how dare an African American
character or died to have a whitecharacter be the savior of this show?
(01:03):
Hey, does anybody know that thisis based off of a video game?
And like that's what happens in thegame. Now, Like I saw a
Slash Films review and they were like, how dare an African American characterized the
white character could be the savior?And it's like, how dare you not
literally realize what this is based offof? Because like they were gonna do
this this way, they were neverOne of the things they were never going
(01:23):
to change was this because there wasno reason for them to change, not
to mention, like pretty much everyonedies except for like I mean not like
again, like a spose. I'mgenerally like when they got to the show.
Besides Joel and Ellie, it's apost apocalyptic show for fuck's sake.
Like, I don't know what youguys expected on this episode of Mushrooms and
Men we're gonna be talking about.The seventh episode of HBO's latest adaptation is
(01:47):
something that they didn't own ahead oftime, the Last of Us. So
this episode is titled Left Behind.It is directed by Lisa Johnson and written
once again by Neil Druckman and itsstars Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal as Jelly
Jelly and Ellie Joel I mean Jelly, I mean hey, you know Joel
and Ellie stars them as Ellie andJoel once again, except this time it's
(02:08):
a flashback episode featuring and focusing allon what Ellie was up to before she
met Joel, Marlene and Tess andwhat was she up to, Well,
she was in a Fedra school,Fedra boarding school, and she met a
girl, fell in love with thegirl, and then they went and snuck
off to a mall together. Andthat's that's the setup of this episode,
(02:30):
folks. It is focusing on theDLC titled Left Behind from the Last of
Us video game that this show isan adaptation of. So all of that
out of the way, Yeshar,what did you think of this? I
think we would both agree inevitable episode. This was the episode we knew what
was going to happen. I think, yeah, well, I wasn't one
hundred percent sure if they were goingto do the DLC, but they mentioned
(02:53):
Riley a couple of times earlier inthe season, and it did. Like
you said, it seemed inevitable.And then once we saw the episode title,
it's named the same thing as theDLCU. Yeah, we get basically
all all the backstory that you everget in the game for Ellie is here
about like who she is, whyshe is, the way she is,
where she came from. Um.I think Liza Johnson directed this episode.
(03:14):
I don't know if she directed anyother episodes in this season. I don't
think she did, but she alsodirected an episode of The Sex Lives of
College Girls, which the show Ialso really enjoy and could also be the
title of this episode or What WeDo in the Shadows another show that she's
directed episode. He said that Iknow if Matthew Berry was in this show,
it would be I think a lotdifferent of a show. My god,
(03:35):
look at those fun guy men chasingafter us, what are they doing?
But yeah, you get to seelike where Ellie comes from a little
bit more on the federal part.And I think we've talked about how it's
interesting how we see like the differentareas of feder and how they integrate with
people's lives, and I think weget a really good scene with was it
Terry Chen early on that kind ofit's like maybe be closer to even probably
(04:00):
a little better than Joel's experience,but definitely like very far moved from the
Casey Fedra and you and you kindof see how they establish like a sort
of meaningful society in a in away where you have the Fireflies being portrayed
as more anarchists, and I thinkeven Ellie kind of pushes Riley on that
point, and you kind of see, like it's definitely not black and white,
(04:20):
like what's good, what's bad?And I like that the show gives
us more of that, and yousee that that like there's not necessarily a
great answer to the question of what'sthe bay best way to have a functioning
society in a world that a lotof the things have been like broken,
like an interesting thing. Actually thepedric I mentioned when he was talking about
(04:40):
the ways that you can die andwe get it that scene more, you
noticed he didn't even mention getting itkilled by clickers, like because they've gotten
to the point where they can actuallymanage that, So it's the other things
you have to worry about. SoI thought that was it was an interesting
an initial caveat, and obviously allthe interactions with Riley and Ellie was like
was heartening. It was sad,but it was also nice, like you
got a sense of wonder that youdon't get a lot in this show.
(05:03):
I don't know what do you thinkof the episode? You know, I
think it was a similarly to lastepisode. It was kind of a slowdown
and pace. Again. I thinkthe show has kind of been clearly kind
of ramping itself up and kind ofestablishing that the narrative is going towards this
inevitable conclusion and this kind of directionof We're going to have an interaction with
(05:24):
the fireflies at some point. ButI think it was smart to kind of
slow the pace of the show downa little bit, give us as much.
I mean, like you said,as much backstory as we need for
Ellie because again, like realistically,and this is kind of an issue with
this show that I think a lotof people, you know, I'm surprised
haven't had is you know, like, what are the motivations why we give
(05:47):
us more flashbacks? Give us moreof what the characters were doing before the
pandemic of the fun Guy or whateveryou want to call it. You know,
the virus taking over before the Yeah, the panny heavy, the panatone
Wow, yeah there, well,they they probably got infected for meeting that
bread. You never know, It'sinteresting that this is as much as we'll
(06:09):
ever get, and I think it'ssmart that this is as much as we'll
ever probably get unless the show wantsto give more, because again, like
these these characters are so smartly writtenthat I don't question what they were doing
before because it, you know,it less is about why they are the
way they are now and more justan experience for us to understand who they
(06:30):
are. Basically, even this isyou're saying, you ap appreciate the episode,
but even if you didn't have it, you were you were finally the
characterization of Elliott. You didn't needit to buy into where we're at with
the characters, right, I mean, and I think that that is a
that is a success of the showin the way that it has written the
characters that this episode I did notneed this episode. That is why it
(06:54):
is DLC. In the game,it is downloadable content. It is additional
content that you can play to furtherincrease your enjoyment of the game, or
help recontextualize things or give you abetter look at things that they're talking about.
Again, in the game, Rileyis not mentioned as much as she's
been mentioned in the show, butshe can be mentioned in the show because
(07:16):
they know they're going to tell thisstory and they know that people who are
watching the show have played the game, have played the DLC, so they
know if they say Riley, peoplewho are in the know will know,
and people who aren't will have it. In this episode explain for them and
kind of shown to them what theykeep mentioning and why Ellie. Again,
Ellie is the way she is fromthe start. Clearly she has been this
(07:40):
way. Even when we meet her, she's not abrasive, she's abrasive,
then she's stuck in her ways.Then when we meet her at the beginning
of this episode the earliest we've everseen her in the context of the show.
So it's not that she's a differentcharacter and this is a transformative moment.
It just it gives you, theaudience kind of a look at her
(08:01):
moment that we saw with Joel atthe beginning of the show. It that's
all this is. It's just usseeing that initial moment of trauma that she
has that is, I guess,a transformative moment. But again, Ellie
is very much going to be transformedmore by what happens in this show in
the timeline of the show versus theflashback stuff. So yeah, I don't
(08:22):
think it was needed, but Iappreciate it. But we knew they were
going to do it. But theshow has been doing such a good job
of writing the characters that if theyhad never done this, I don't think
anybody would have said, ah,man, what a shame. Like maybe
some people would be disappointed, butI think that the love story that the
show has already done may have overshadowedhow good this episode also could have been.
(08:43):
Oh you mean the Bill and Frank, right, And I think the
love story component of it is important, But I don't think that's the crux
is to be like, Oh,Ellie is heart bro it's I think the
friendship supersedes the love that was moreof Ellie has discovered and accepted this thing
(09:03):
about herself that I think will playmore down the road in the story rather
than Oh, this is all abouther losing her first love. No,
it's about her losing the only connectionshe ever had. Like we'd learned Riley
had a family, so Riley likeknows what loss is. Ellie doesn't like.
Death is sort of this like weird, almost not real thing to her
because it's constantly surrounding her in thecontext of growing up in the QZ.
(09:26):
But she's I think she was actuallyshe was like too young to unders like
remember losing her parents, so likeshe never had to have the connection and
then the loss. The only thingshe had was Riley. She obviously didn't
have that many friends. She's abit standoffish and stubborn, but clearly smart,
and so this is the one connectionshe loses by the end of the
episode, and maybe it recontextualizes whyeven though she took a while to warm
(09:50):
up to Joel, she's kind ofattached to him because this is like a
safety she hasn't had in a longsince Riley or maybe ever, and so
makes it more important for her tomaintain that. But she but also it
allows her to stay divorced, Ithink from a lot of the trauma and
horrible things that are occurring around her, for better or worse, like when
(10:11):
she last at the dead body,right. Well, And I think that's
the other thing about you know thisepisode is you know, by the time
we see Ellie and the show,it's not made clearer how much time has
passed. I guess it would belike what a couple of weeks, three
weeks, right is what they say, since she's been bitten, right,
(10:31):
it's been it's been like, youknow, weeks to it couldn't be more
than a couple of months right fromthe end of this episode. Speaking of
the first episode, right, soyou know this character again, like is
it pretty much the character that wesee when we meet her, So,
you know, it's I don't know, it's it's interesting. I really appreciated
the you know, the performances inthe episode. I think storm Read is
(10:54):
fantastic, not a thankless role,but you know, you know that this
character is around past this episode sothey have to do more to give their
audience an idea of like why thisis important because we know this character is
not going to survive, Like thereis nothing that could be changed about that,
because we are already further in thenarrative at this point. So I
(11:18):
think she's I think she's really charming. I think she plays really well off
of Bella Ramsey. I think thisis also a really interesting episode for Bella
Ramsey because she does a really goodjob in carrying the episode almost on her
own. And I would say atthe beginning of this show, I was
concerned if this episode would work becauseI think you and I both coming into
(11:39):
the show were a little hesitant onBella Ramsey. We know Pedro Pascal can
knock it out of the park.He always does. I mean, in
this episode, he's lying on hisback the entire episode, and even then
he's fantastic. I think he wasprobably, you know, filming an episode
of The Mandalorian this week. Airquotes he got like six hundred thousand dollars
for this episode. Man was lyingon his back for two scenes and he
got paid six undred k. Hisagent is unbelievable. His agent is getting
(12:03):
paid like six probably at least sixK an episode that he does, because
his agent's probably taken like ten percentat least. I think, can you
imagine can you imagine? Well,right, sorry, sixty k, you're
right, sorry, My math isterrible. It's even worse. Can you
imagine getting sixty k an episode asthis dude's agent for him to just be
like, I'm on my back thewhole episode, Like all right, bro,
(12:26):
it's fucking great. Like he's gottalike, I know, he's not
the highest paid actor like per episode, but if you think about like per
minute of work, he's gotta beup. He like the highest paid actor
on TV right now. I meanhe might be, but my point is,
like the actual effort, like sixhundred K for like two minutes of
screen time is you know, prettydope? Dude? You wouldn't. You
wouldn't pass that gig up anymore thanI would. No, no, no,
(12:50):
I would even wear a helmet andcover my face the whole time.
Right. But but Bella Ramsey waskind of the question going into the show,
not that I had any issue withtheir casting. Look, it's not
like I love the last of usgoing into this show. I hadn't even
finished the game, so I didn'thave an emotional connection with either character to
the point where I was angry thata certain person wasn't being cast. Look,
(13:11):
Ellen Page was the inspiration for thecharacter, not according not according to
the creators, but yere right,But but Elliott Page would not be playing
the the Ellie character obviously, evenif he took the whole transition out of
it. Too old at this point, right right, That's about That's my
point. Like, even all ofthat aside, even if it was based
(13:33):
off of them before they transition,they're like in their thirties now, so
not gonna work. But when youhave the character being played by Bella Ramsey,
who, again Bella Ramsey is nineteenbut looks the age, I think
that that was smart to cast someonewho looks younger but is older, versus
(13:54):
casting someone who was younger, becauseI just think that they well, no,
I'm talking about, like you,someone who's fourteen to actually play a
fourteen year old, I just don'tknow if they could rise to the occasion
the way Bella Ramsay has. AndI'm not saying all child actors are bad,
but they say don't work with animals. And kids for a reason,
and pre eighteen, you're still akid as far as I'm concerned, even
(14:16):
if you're a teenager. And they'reprobably taking like a like a longer term
view on this, Like in thesecond game, we know there's like a
several year gap, four or fiveyears, so like Ellie is an adult
in the second game, So ifthey're thinking of, hey, we want
some sort of continuity, but Imean, I guess you could recast,
but it seems like they would ratherkeep the same people than yeah, you
cast, what a little oil Theycan play younger and then in the next
(14:39):
one, I assume she'll be essentiallyher real aid well, and in the
video game between the first and thesecond one, it's a couple of years,
right, like three or four years. Three or four years, yeah,
which would actually take her to likeeighteen ninety. I mean, like
she's in like an adult relationship andstuff like that, Like like she's an
adult, like she's self sufficient,and I mean, good second, but
(15:00):
like she is like an adult,right, But I mean, look,
that's that's not surprising I think foranyone, even if you don't know where
the second game goes. But Ithink more to my point this episode,
I think finally I am comfortable saying, like Bella Ramsey is a fantastic actress,
and that scene where she watches thelights turn on in the mall,
(15:22):
I mean, her ability to kindof be convincing and her reaction to that,
I think is just really impressive.I think she's a fantastic actress.
And look, I don't think hertime on Game of Thrones or The Worst
Witch on Netflix is indicative of heracting ability. I think this is.
And I think the second season ofthis show is going to be the Bella
(15:43):
Ramsey hour. And I think weboth know that, maybe not the second
season, but definitely the third season. Yeah, if you and I,
I mean we've never even talked aboutthat at at length, but I think
we both like kind of ev espingone another, like we're able to connect
and know kind of where it's goingbecause again, like the story in the
(16:03):
second game is a lot different.It's a lot less straightforward, there's a
lot more moving not moving parts,but the timeline is a little less straightforward
as this one is more or lesschronological. Yeah, so you know that
was kind of my big concern goinginto this episode, was Isabella Ramsey going
to be able to carry an episodeon her own, and I think she
does, and I think this isactually a better episode for it, for
(16:27):
them just going let's just do it. Let's do the episode where she has
to do everything. There's these littlemoments when she's in the mall. Obviously
it's all quite new to her,but like the thing where they go to
Victoria's Secret or was a Victoria's secretor a Victor's secret, like, and
she like looks at the launch rayyou can kind of see like she has
a glance, she looks in themin the mirror. I interpreted that as
she kind of wants to look goodfor Riley, you know, So she
(16:48):
was like fell the little because she'slike, oh, I don't look like
this woman this like you know,more traditional heteronormative like ideal of Obviously,
as we learned, Ellie not particularsurprisingly as a lesbian, so she hasn't
I think, maybe fully come toterms with that, at least with Riley.
And then she's also like feeling abit uncomfortable in her skin, and
just these little micro moments I thinkshow the depth of the character and like
(17:12):
a really like masterful show of acting. And they both leads played really well
off one another, and I wouldhave liked to see a bit more time
with them, But that's not reallywhat this shows about. It's about like
love and loss and like the thingsthat love makes you do, good and
bad. And I think this isjust emphasizing that, like Joel has lost
(17:33):
someone that he loves, his daughterright and tests now, and you know
Ellie has lost someone that she lovesand how do people that are broken find
that and come back together. Ithink that that resonated with me. And
then you also get the underlying tensionbetween the Fireflies and Fedra. I think
that we mentioned earlier. You wantto actually get into that. Did you
like that scene about the fed withthe Fedra agent. I think it was
(17:53):
interesting. I mean, I thinkit's maybe a little heavy handed, but
again, like but I don't Ithink for the sake of the audience,
it's best to be a little heavyhanded here, because for people that aren't
game players, they really need tomake it clear as to what's going on
and kind of beat you over thehead with it, because if you're a
video game player, and if you'veplayed the Last of Us, it's not
(18:15):
going to come as a surprise,how you as the gamer should feel about
Fedra and how you should feel conflictedin this scene. But they need to
show you as an audience member thatEllie is conflicted, and by her being
conflicted, you as the audience shouldbe conflicted as well as opposed to a
video gamer just knowing you know,Fedra is pretty bad, but that's informed
(18:36):
by a lot of things that yousee while playing the game. I mean,
we've seen Fedra in the show,but the Fedra that we've seen,
the Boston Fedra seemed like the bestFedra best, you know, relative through
Kansas City, and you know,but Kansas City is really the only other
one we've really seen. So buteven the Terry, he's been another a
(18:56):
lot of other stuff, like aHouse of Cards like that. I liked
his performance because he even says,you know, I know, if we're
not here, people are either goingto starve or like kill each other.
And we have seen the what happens, you know, when Feder's not there,
And you could say, maybe he'srationalizing things, and you know,
is he just like almost trying toput like propaganda on Ellie? Maybe a
(19:19):
bit, but I think he doesbelieve that, and like, somewhere deep
down, this is a guy thatprobably generally is trying to do the right
thing or what he thinks it's theright thing, and it's it's like a
trade off. I think you haveto making a society like this, and
I'm happy, like we're not ina place where we have to think,
like which one you'd rather have?But we see the Fireflies are a bit
(19:40):
wild and les like, oh,I would never bomb you know, near
you, But the fact that shehas to say like she has to do
it means like the fireflies probably wouldand like is that cost enough to not
deal with Fedra? We haven't this. We've seen the Fireflight people working together
and it seems like that works.So we haven't really seen them like running
entire cities or like people that aren'tin the cause, Like what does that
(20:02):
look like? Well? And theykind of they talk more about that in
the game, right, And that'sthe incompetency of the Fireflies ends up kind
of playing more into where this showor I guess where the game ends up
going. The show, the directionthe show is going seems a lot more
focused on love and the choices wemake because of love and I'm not saying
(20:22):
that the game isn't that, butthe game has a different component to it
that is also kind of you understandingthat the world around you is kind of
fucked like, and everything is kindof fucked and even the people that are
trying to do good like maybe necessarilycan't. And that's not particularly clear in
the show, and I'm not surethat it needs to be. Maybe they'll
(20:47):
wheel that out in the next twoepisodes, because again, I mean,
we're going to see more of that. But the best I can tell from
the preview for the next episode,it's going to be some sort of Troy
Baker led David is some sort ofannibals, I'm or some shit, I'm
sure, But Troy Baker is there, that's all I know, and he
just they keep showing him over andover again. All I can think is
(21:07):
if I didn't play David, Iknow he's playing some like some like a
like a lackey of him. Butthey kept showing him over and over again.
I was like, Hey, that'sthe guy who plays Joel over and
over again. It's like most peoplewould not know who that is. Who
are watching the show, I feellike they recognize his voice but yeah you
would. I'm not even sure he'snot even doing the Joel voice, like
(21:29):
I mean, it is kind ofhis voice, but yeah, what is
he like san Antonio wised I thinkis yeah, he's Southern for sure.
Yeah, yeah, No, It'slike I like this. The show hasn't
really taken a clear stance, likea moral stance on pedro fireflies. It's
more of just like, here's aninformation about both. Neither of them is
(21:49):
probably totally right either, it's probablytotally wrong. There's definitely things that are
wrong. Um, and I thinkEllie kind of brings him out to light
with Riley, and Riley does toEllie. And it's just one of those
things that I don't need an answeron. But it's nice to just keep
keep alive in the back of ourheads to understand, like this is more
than it's not like Walking Dead whereit's just like people in zombies, like
(22:10):
there's there is some societal functioning goingon, and like there are there's some
tension about what that should look like. Well, and I wonder you know
again, because the way the narrativeis being presented, we do see kind
of, like you said, nota stance being taken on Fedra or the
Fireflies. I do wonder if inthe next two episodes we'll see that.
(22:30):
I mean the next episode probably not, but the last episode, I feel
like they've got to get into itsomehow, given where where they're going with
the gotta take Ellie somewhere storyline.Yeah, but I don't I mean even
in the game finale, like Idon't really think I had a strong feeling
like how it felt about like theFireflies, and I don't know, and
like generally the mission that's the Firefliesat least that the Gates portraying just around
(22:52):
you know, using Ellie for acure, right, that's like the whole
premise is getting her for a cure, Like who wouldn't support that? So
I don't know, we'll see,we'll see if they're if they're populism,
you know sticks. But I dolike that we get to finally see a
FEDRA agent interact with someone in aless aggressive and abrasive way, because up
until this point it's just been youknow, the one FEDRA agent that Joel
(23:15):
was kind of selling drugs too,but also then killed to death with his
bare fucking hands. You can't convinceme he didn't kill that guy, Like,
yeah, my guess is that dude'sprobably not alive. As Joel Kerry,
he's never going back to Boston U. And then obviously we've seen like
we've heard about what the feder peoplein Cancer. They sided like a not
(23:37):
great bunch, right, But yeah, so it's interesting and I think I
also wanted on the on the Rileypiece, like it was a bit unclear,
like did Fedra anything with her parents'death or like they're maybe unrelated,
but because she's lost that like shedoesn't. I don't know Fedra makes her
feel uncomfortable, like what pushed hertowards the fireflies And it could have just
(23:59):
been like an ideological like Pedro keepsus safe. But I don't like the
parameters of like we can't go outat night and like you know, we
have to listen to them and theyhang people who you know, they've said
of committed crimes just kind of barbarous. But you know, I don't know,
Well, they kept calling they keepcalling them fascists, but like,
yeah, we don't see a lotof the fascism that they talk about.
We haven't seen it yet, Like, well, all we've seen the best
(24:21):
I can tell. What we've seenis like them trying to keep the people
in the Quzi safe. Yeah,I mean to go back to the pretty
much everyone from the Cake Kansas CityWent's saying like they were literally great being
killing and murdering, and so Ibelieve that. But yeah, we haven't
seen it, but it does seemlike they assign you your work, because
Riley says, you know, shegets assigned to guard you, but she's
actually in FEDRA, but guard dutyfor like the stalls and basically like shit
(24:45):
holes. But it also seems likeFedra's probably the if you're going to get
any job in the Quzi, probablystill the best job to have. And
like we're all of these recruits allorphans or were some of them volunteers,
some of them wanted to do it. I don't really need those answers,
but it's interesting world building. Well, it's interesting that there's like a school
where they're running around with electricity,Like it was weird and interesting to see
(25:07):
that because again, like in alot of ways, that is a typical
of a And again I mentioned iton last show. I mentioned it here.
You've already mentioned The Walking Dead,a zombie show. Unquote like you
just don't see that, and Ilike that there are these slower moments.
Look, I mean, the entiresetup of this episode only goes in one
direction, one end or both ofthem have to get bit in this scenario,
(25:30):
because Ellie is immune, she hasto get bit. But in another
narrative, it would have been thetwo of them together and then Riley gets
bit and Ellie doesn't. Right,I mean it's that that would have been
the way that this had been told, because that's essentially right, right,
right, because again they kind oftold that with Joel's character, right,
you know, she doesn't get infected, but she dies anyways, you know,
(25:53):
one of them survives. It's justEllie has to be bitten. Because
the entire premise of the show thegame is oh, she's immune, but
this is where we find out thatshe's immune. That that setup is so
boiler plate. I'm glad that theylanded it by having those quieter moments of
them playing Mortal Kombat two, whichI know is a change from the video
(26:14):
game where they game the Turning.I think, yeah, Mortal Kombat two
is better, Like people know thatone better. I don't know what the
Turning is well and I and Iand they have the Mortal Kombat two poster
in her room, which I thinkwas a kind of an interesting callback where
it's like this thing you've never playedand then you're finally able to play it
for real in real life. LikeI think that was. I know that
was. That was nice, kindof like a nice little callback within the
(26:36):
episode itself. And you know what, though, they did look like they
were playing Mortal Kombat too, Umyou know what I mean. Yeah,
no, I think they were playingMortal Komba. No no, no,
no, like no, no,Like it actually looked like they were playing
Mortal Kombat too, because like inin TV shows about where characters are playing
video games, it's always like clickany clack, click any clack, I
don't know what I'm doing. Like, well, I mean they were,
(26:59):
and I want I've been there,like I remember being like that in this
right, But like even then,when they looked like they didn't know what
they were doing, it was believableand like that is something that for someone
like myself, for someone like youwho plays video games fairly regularly, like
it's something that I always notice.It's like when a characters at a computer
and they're typing, and it's likethese really exaggerated hand motions, like nobody
(27:22):
uses a computer. You're like,I just I just hacked into the Pentagon.
Yeah, it's like you just fuckingtyped real fast and didn't type anything.
Like I appreciate those little touches becauseit adds to not the just the
realism of the show, but itfeels like the creators of the show are
being conscientious of these things. Yeah, I mean they want you to feel
like this, like this could havereally happened, or this could have been
(27:44):
what like the thing like, thesearen't just people going from point at point
B. They're living these experiences,and these are experiences that we know a
lot of our viewers are familiar within some way or another, like being
in them all cointed an arcade.I would really like the scene where they
go to the cost Him Halloween shopand like they have the mask on and
they're both wearing masks, but youcan like almost sense Ellie's sadness, like
(28:07):
it was it's hard to explain,but like it was her body language and
the way she takes it off andshe kisses Riley, and I think that
moment actually makes the fact that Rileyis quite tragic because she gets Riley to
say, I'm going to leave andlike join the fireflies and bomb shit and
do all kinds of things that areprobably a seventeen year old shouldn't be doing.
And Riley's like, no, I'llstay for you. And like in
(28:29):
that moment, Ellie gets and everythingshe could have possibly wanted, and then
she immediately loses it. But that'sthis show in a nutshell, right,
Like this show juxtaposes those like momentsof love with like moments of just like
loss and they and they, Imean they did it with Henry and Sam,
right, oh we got away andwe're all safe, just kidding,
just kidding, like and God,God, God him. Yeah, I
(28:52):
mean it's the same thing like withUm with oh what tests or bellin for
rank or tests, or like mostof the characters in this show, they
have this moment of kind of triumphand then it's like just kidding, I
got bit or just kidding, Iwant you know, I have an MS
or whatever the hell Bill and Frankwere dealing with. Like those moments are
(29:14):
juxtaposed almost like next to each other, like right on top of one another.
And I appreciate it. The showis not pulling any punches. I
mean again, it's not it's likewe've never seen this before. It's just
done rather well here. Yeah,I think it's nothing in this episode is
like whoa, I've never seen theconcept of young love or you know.
I mean, I guess the lesbiansare just slightly different, but like not
(29:37):
really and it's been hinted at aneven more Yeah, and it was hinted
at. Remember in like episode twoor something that someone asked Ellie if she
had a boyfriend and she's like shegives like a look where that it's like
not even an option. Ellie don'tneed no man to define her exactly.
So uh yeah, but it's Iguess though, even you say the last
(30:00):
of Us that the individual pieces nothingis totally original, And I don't mean
that like disparagingly, but it takesa lot of existing like storytelling infrastructure and
like puts it together in a waythat I think most people haven't experience it
being like such a human centered storyin it like a quote unquote zombie apocalypse.
And it's also about like these peoplewho aren't completely morally righteous as well
(30:25):
that we're following, but supporting.You know, in two weeks, Ted
Lasso Season three comes out right andit is very similar to this show in
a lot of ways. It's honestabout it is. It's honest about its
human emotions in a way that asports show normally isn't. Just the way
this show is pretty honest about humanemotions in a way a show like The
Walking Dead hasn't been since like thesecond season, to focus on the characters
(30:51):
and their emotional well being and theiremotional states of being and saying that's the
driving factor, not the action,not the bloaters, not whatever else is
happening in the world at the time. To say that the characters and their
interactions and emotions is what's going todrive the narrative is again, that's a
newer thing. I mean again,you know, not everybody for the longest
(31:15):
time was focused on actual character growthwhen they were writing a story. They
were worried about big action set piecesand whether or not people are going to
be entertained by ship being blown upand zombies being shot. And there have
been shockingly little zombies or the zombieequivalents in this show killed on screen.
This is like the fourth one maybe, And this is the first time we've
(31:37):
seen like some real extended close combataction outside of what when Joel killed that
clicker in episode yeah and this isepisode seven. Well, no, we
got, we got, we gotthe bloater at that scene. But that
wasn't close. That wasn't like handto hand combat, which is a lot
of the game mind You is handto hand combat and hitting clickers with pipes
(31:59):
and ricks and bottles and others shitand stabbing them and like this kind of
echoes that. But it's interesting becausethis show and ted Lasso and some other
kind of more well written shows arefocusing on the characters and what is driving
them within the world and then thescenarios that they're in. It's interesting to
(32:21):
see those characters in those scenarios becauseyou understand the fully formed nature of the
characters and just I'd never got thatwith The Walking Dead. This is almost
the antithesis of what The Walking Deadwas, was and is and has done
since the second or third season.I mean, I don't want to think
about The Walking Dead. I don'teven want to talk about the Walking Dead.
(32:43):
That's I mean, that's that.But that's because that show gave up
writing interesting characters. This show hasthree seasons in it. It's not going
to go more than that, notwith these characters, and it shouldn't and
it shouldn't go more than that.I don't know if they go beyond the
games, we'll see, right,but like, if they go on the
game's great. But that's like ifwe all agree that a Last of Us
(33:05):
three isn't coming out in the nextfour years, which I can't equivocally say
any more than you can, thenthe show might have four or five seasons,
sure, but right now it's moreor less going to be three seasons
unless they go past the game.And if they do, great, But
I'm still confident that the people whoare writing the show understand that it's a
character driven show because it has beenthis whole season. There has been not
(33:30):
enough action to keep people who areexpecting a zombie adjacent show where zombies are
being killed every episode. There's notenough for them to stick around, I
would think, But there's enough ifyou're into a well written character drama with
a post apocalyptic trappings. It's acharacter piece, and like I think that's
would be surprising to some people whohave played the game, which is an
(33:52):
action game, because there's plenty ofit, Like, there's so much of
just killing and shooting and strangling,shiving and crafting and everything else, and
there's like none of it in thisAnd I'm thankful for that because honestly,
a video game adaptation that worries aboutwhether or not only able to show the
action on the big screen often overlookswriting believable characters. And this did the
(34:15):
inverse and it totally works. Didyou what do you think about? Like,
I know there wasn't much of it, but there was some like key
Joel stuff in the episode, Likedid you like it? Just like it
wasn't that memorable? I think obviouslymore or less And then you would have
to correct me on this because Ihaven't played the DLC. Is the DLC
used to juxtapose the relationship with Ellieand Joel getting stronger to the point of
(34:39):
like catalysts catalyzing, Because that's whatthis episode more or less does, is
it shows the side of this thatwe didn't like. We saw the Joel
side of it last episode, andnow we see the Ellie side of it
this episode. The DLC is usedin a different way, correct because the
function here makes sense narrative why itcomes at this point in the story.
(35:01):
It's similar in the sense of Ellielike does some things that saves Joel's life.
It's much more action oriented, wherelike she's literally foraging for supplies to
save Joel and she kills like aton of people, like a ton of
like bandits. So it's much I'mmore action focused. Didn't really make obviously
that's for the game, right,it's like mission yeah, yeah, okay,
yeah, when it's you have theflashbacks and you have like the flashboards.
(35:23):
But the core function is she isthere in a time when Joel cannot,
like she does save Joel's life withouther, Joel dies in the game
and in the show, and inthe show, like Joel's obviously trying to
like tell Ellie to leave him becausehe thinks that's the only way he can
protect him. Right, he pushesher away, and you know, when
she comes back because she's found somethings to so up his wound, he's
(35:45):
crying. I wasn't sure. Ithink he was crying because like he thought
he was gonna lose Ellie. I'veheard other interpretations like maybe he was crying
because he felt like her last memoryof him is going to be or pushing
away or whatever. But I don'tknow what was your take that I thought
he was crying because he knew wherethis is heading, like he knows that
(36:05):
he like like, yeah, he'sready to hurt again like that, and
and like and that he may haveto make a decision in the future that
is not going to be an easyone. Like I know, we know
he doesn't know what the stakes arefor making the vaccine. We know he
doesn't know that yet, because Idon't think he would continue doing this if
he knew, because the decision heends up making. But I think it's
(36:29):
him realizing that, like, yeah, he's at the point now where he
is going to be really hurt shouldanything happen to her. And it's like
it's that moment of him realizing,like it's all over now, like anything
that happens from here on out,Like he's making decisions to protect her himself,
right, And I think to readit the other way is a perfectly
(36:51):
valid way of reading. And Ithink, look, a lot can be
said with no dialogue at all,And I think it's a testament to Pedro
Pascal as an actor that you canglean two or three close but not necessarily
the same interpretations from him just onthe ground crying while she sews up his
stomach. Yeah. So, likeI said, I know, it's it's
(37:13):
a relatively you know, probably lessthan five minutes or so, six minutes
of the episode, but in thecontext of what it sets up, like
she saves his life, their bondgets deeper, like it is going to
be important and carry through, Ithink in the next final two episodes of
the season. So I appreciate themfor not completely ignoring that. And I
wonder if we're going to return toRiley and Ellie. I don't think so.
I don't think there's a point.I think, you know, some
(37:35):
people might be interested to see howthat plays out, but I don't think
you need to see it at theDLC. Does this show as much as
the DLC shows, or does itshow I think I think it's similar,
where like you don't exactly see howRiley, you know, like they spend
their well, they I think theyboth think it's their final moments together,
but I don't really think you seeRiley's transition in Yeah, like it's like,
okay, yes, do you wantto explain everything to the audience.
(37:58):
Maybe, but I think it alsolike we really need to see that from
Ellie's perspective, like just know thatshe had a little bit more time with
the person that she loved and like, unfortunately and also fortunately in the context
if she's a survivor and his immuneshe lost that person. I don't really
think we see like their last daytogether or whatever last six hours. Probably
not, But that's very atypical forthis kind of narrative to cut it short
(38:21):
before you see the conclusion to thatpart of it. Most of the time
it's you have to shoot him.That's not your husband, brother's son,
whatever anymore like that. We didn'tget any of that, And again I
think it's just smart storytelling on thepart of once again Neil Druckman, who
has a wrangle on not only writingfor video games clearly, but also writing
(38:42):
for television. I will be shockedif he doesn't write another television show or
do something after this. I mean, yeah, I mean he's well,
like not associated with the video gameshe's worked on, like its own thing
entirely, Like I I believe hecould do that without a source material of
his own to adapt, is whatI'm getting at I'm sure he has probably
like other scripts and ideas that he'swanted to pitch his games that he might
(39:06):
just go straight to, like thescreen or you know, someone'll hire him
to adapt something they want. Butat the same time, like he also
like he has he has like look, every video game he's worked on has
been massively successful. Everything he's workedon in the last ten years, from
what uncharted to last games he wason a at least at least three and
(39:28):
four, all of them boards likeconsidered the best one too. He wrote
one, two, four, Hedidn't write three. That's okay. Three
is like the not I think threeis the worst of all of them.
Three is about his Three is betterthan the first one, but the second
one is my jam for sure.The way the second game opens is just
masterful. The train, the trainin the in the Mountains is just I've
(39:54):
never played a video game that hookedme as quickly as that game. Bit
and like, I after how kindof the first game was, that second
game was just like, Yeah,I remember liking that game a lot.
I've gone back and played it acouple of times and it still holds up.
Especially, I mean, everything there'syet easy. There's Shambala, there's
a chase on rooftop with a helicopter. There's a chase on a train with
(40:15):
a helicopter. There's so much stuffin that game. We don't get Nazi
zombies in the Uncharted movie now thatI'm remembering it, the Nazi zombies were
a wild twist, oh from thefirst game. Yeah, well, hey
man, I didn't even see thatUncharted movie. Like it. It was
good, But it's like as afew set pieces from the game, but
it's not like the premise is obviouslyyou know, hunter blah blah blah,
(40:38):
but the actual story is not particularlysimilar, obviously because Drake is just so
much younger, And well, isn'tit like a story told in the Uncharted
universe? Is what? It's?What is? Ye happened? Said?
It's not an adaptation of the game, no one. No, there's like
set pieces that are from the games, but yeah, overall it's it's yeah,
(40:59):
it's like, hey, this couldhave been another Uncharted thing that Drake
did, and but it's And look, I mean the thing that I will
say when we talk about adaptations ofthings, I don't think adapting video games
into movies is the way to go. I think I don't even think adapting
most things into movies is the wayto go. I think it's adapting them
into television is the way to go, especially when it's a narrative that's fairly
(41:22):
complex, that has some beats toit that you need to let breathe.
Because I can imagine this as amovie or two movies, and it could
have been okay. I guess Ijust felt it would have felt like it
would have been rushed and overcrowded,and things would have been certain narrative beats
would have been sacrificed. We're probablynot getting the whole bill in frank thirty
(41:42):
minutes soft the side, no brand we're probably not getting the Left Behind
DLC done in its entirety. Youprobably gain just like the last part or
something, or like flashbacks to itor something like something that's a little less
nuanced than the show can. Andagain, the show is showing it's almost
the whole thing, but it's doingit in a way where even then if
(42:04):
you've seen it before, it feelsnew and exciting. And again you're not
just sitting and going on, I'mwaiting for Riley and Ellie to get bit
like there's enough that you as anaudience member, I think are given in
this episode where it's entertaining, evenif you again know where this is going,
and even if you don't know wherethis is going, you know where
this is going at this point inthe show. I liked it. I
(42:25):
think it was a good episode.I don't know. I don't know what
the rest. I've heard that thelast two episodes of the show kind of
slowed down a lot. Yeah,some of the some of the reviews I
read were the last two episodes kindof dragged a little bit with people who
have seen the entire show. Yeah, up ahead and ahead of time.
(42:45):
Yeah, so that's interesting just basedon like, I know the overarching story
points, and I was like,they're both like seem a bit more actionally
from my recollection. So I'm interestedto see what it looks like. And
they have said the end of thefirst season is coincide at the end of
the first game, so it's notlike there's gonna be a cliffhanger or something
like that. Right, Well,there might be a cliffhanger, but I
(43:07):
think we'll know. I don't know. They have to do something to like
leave the audience wanting, wanting towith something to chew on. Yeah,
but I meant like cliffhangers in,like, oh, we didn't finish the
narrative at the first game. Idon't know. Maybe I don't know.
I mean they might like maybe theymaybe they lied to us. And season
two is just like the last youknow, two hours of the game.
(43:28):
We'll see. That would be insanity. I don't think they would do that
though, And crazy things have happenedattack when I'm Titan. The final season
has three separate parts, so well, that's fair. Look, I think
that the show is in an interestingposition now because I would think and you
might agree, that we're clearly inthe in the scope of this being Ellie's
show now, like Joel has takena little bit of a back seat,
(43:50):
he may be taking a back seatin the next episode as well, And
I'm I'm super excited to see whatthat means for the show and also for
how it sets up the final episodeof the show. So yeah, because
now we're here, we're at theend of the show effectively with two episodes
from the end. Yeah, No, I'm I'm interested see where it goes.
Like I think this episode was reallygood. Probably not quote unquote necessary,
(44:13):
but I liked it, and Ithink it the show's better for it.
Yeah, I will say that ofthe episodes we've seen so far,
this might be the one way youcan kind of take it out. I'm
not saying it's bad, and Idon't think you are either. But nature
of the story is it wasn't coreto the narrative like in the game either,
right, it was DLC for areason. It was just more to
(44:34):
contextualize the character of Ellie. Andagain, it's smart to put it in
here because hey, you've got nineepisodes to phil, this should be one
of them. It's going to beinteresting visually, it's going to be a
showcase for the actors involved. Butyeah, I mean it's it's not necessary
to the narrative overall, but youknow, hey, an hour long diversion
(44:55):
with these two characters is fine.I will go back to what I said
before. Or it maybe doesn't hitas hard because we've already seen a better
love story with a better conclusion thatdidn't feel as wrote as this one kind
of did earlier in the season.So that might be the unintended consequence of
the Bill and Frank episode, isit kind of diminishes the emotional impact that
(45:19):
this episode might have had otherwise.And again, like we were commenting on
that episode, like isn't it surprisingthat these two characters have a happy ending
in a post apocalyptic show, andlike, yeah, it is surprising,
And then we come to this episodeand it's like and here is how it
always ends, and it's like,I didn't don't know if I needed to
see this, because like, Iget that this is what happened, but
(45:39):
there was no other way to doit other than to give it in a
full episode to breathe, and I'mglad that. I am glad that they
gave it a full episode and theydidn't try to like because the other way
to do this is like Pepper theflashbacks in throughout the season, and you
have the flashbacks playing concurrently with thenarrative, and then when you get towards
the end of the season, youknow, Westworld style, you have that
(46:00):
reveal of this is how Ellie gotbit. But like, I just I
think that this, you know,this is the path of least resistance if
you're going to tell the narrative theway they've been telling it, which is
more or less, you know,narratively chronologically straightforward. It's something this show
has shown that it can do well, and that the more time we give
these characters, I think it's forthe it's the better for it. And
(46:22):
I think it was a nice littlerest bit. And I'm really interested in
last episodes take us like as someonewho I think I know what's going to
happen, I'm still really interested tosee, like how it's going to translate.
Same. So on that note,on the next episode of this you'll
be hearing us talking about the eighthand penultimate episode of the first season and
last of us. That episode istitled When We Are in Need. Until
(46:45):
then, you can find you Sharand I over at weirdingwaymedia dot com,
which is a repository and suppository forall audio things that you should be sticking
in your ear, not in yourbutt. As for this show, yeah,
whoa, you can't listen to yourasshole, but maybe you can.
I don't know. Maybe you haveyour shar has ears on his butt.
Maybe I don't know. As forthis show, you can find us on
(47:07):
all streaming platforms iTunes, Spotify,and the like rate and review of the
show helps us out and helps theclickers find us quicker. Until then,
big thanks from me, shar andI for you listening to the show.
Catch up on the next episode.
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