NBA Draft Talk with Stephen Gillaspie of No Ceilings

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Start spreading the new, new, new new.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
We interrupt our program to bring you this important message,
New York.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
I love you, I love you. Oh, it's trying to
get open the fires life. It's so hard. The bus

(00:41):
way at the fuzzer.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Dollar, the curry back there a dollar a player.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Oh fuck my James Lebrian James with the rejection. Just
put up the prase long go. These are back back
out to all history turning. What's gone on? People? Welcome
back to another episode of the Off the Ball podcast
from me or host Chris Lebron. And it's draft season.

(01:11):
You guys know how how much I love the MBA Draft.
And we are here and I got a special guest
with me. You've probably seen him before on the pod.
Me and him have gone go away. If it's crazy, right,
almost a half a decade plus right, come on, man,
it's it's feeling out right. I'm aging myself, you know,

(01:31):
but it's crazy to start off. I always say this,
start off with the email you emailed me. This is
when we first started to freshen the game, right, you know,
fresh off the boom, and you hit me up. I said,
let's do it. And then we started talking and then boom.
You know you've done some really dope stuff, you know
OTB and alumni too. You know, he was a big
part of what we did over there OTB and you know,

(01:52):
off the Ball Network, you know. So always always a
pleasure to have my guy from the no Ceilings, you know,
team one of the best in the game for covering
the NBA Draft, my guy, Stephen Gillespie.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
What's up, brothers man. Heck of an introduction. They got
me hype man, Like Chris, I'm I'm a part of
those Ceilings, like and I and I love my crew
right like I'm just gonna put that out now.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
But I love you, I love your crew.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
O T has a big place in my heart, man,
Like I still follow you guys, like I still I
still listen to like each of y'all individually and and
all that, like when I see it live, I'll catch
them every time I can, and I leave little comments
and little hearts, and I love yous in there, like
I it's just a it's a good feeling to be back, man,

(02:38):
And it's and tell the people like as soon as
you hit me up and was like, hey Stevie, you
know cause you came on when I was doing a
uh no ceilings uh discord. We were doing a live
Q and A you came on and I was on
my break at work and I.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Was like, you know what, you guys are doing the
video the audio stuff, you know, yeah, let me let
me let me go in uh and then chop it up.
I want to talk some drafts, you know. And anytime
I could find a time to listen to you guys,
I'm always gonna, you know, with the craziness of my schedule,
always if I could find a little aty bitty time,
I'm gonna find time to listen to you guys.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
But you came on there and we chopped it up,
and then like right after we we you know, ended
the stream and I had to run off because my
kids were bursting down my door. You hit me up
and was like, yo, Steve, you know you come on
the pod, and I think like as soon as I
saw that, I was like, dude, I'm already there, Like
what are you waiting for. Let's go. Let's go.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
That's what I love, bro, and that's that I know
it can always count on you. And I said, once
I got on that, I was like, you know what
at that moment, I knew like I kind of had
a good understanding of my skill because I just thought
of a new job, so I wanted to make sure,
you know, everything's established day I'm good, you know. So
I felt at the around that time, I was like,
you know what, I get back to being more because

(03:52):
I said, work's been crazy, so I haven't had that
much time on the pod. But now I finally found time,
and I was like, you know what, I haven't done
a full podcast with someone talking about the draft yet.
Drafts only two weeks away, which.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Is crazy for you by this time of year?

Speaker 1 (04:06):
What crazy? I'm more I'm alwaysally by January, I'm starting,
like I do. I've written some articles for Knicks Fan
TV talking about like second round picks and stuff, and
people are like, yo, we're trying to get Katie and y'all.
I was like, yeah, but think of the draft, come on, guys,
you know, and they're like, sleep, you know, sleeper, you
know you might, you might, guys.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Warriors got Quinn post like late second round last year.
He's playing in playoffs this year and isn't Darren also
you know we might just you know, he could play.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
These people could play now so you know, so, like
I said, I'm going to go full board with the
draft a few weeks Grea. But like I said, always
a pleasure to have you on, brother. Like I said,
great great stuff you guys do over no ceiling. You
guys just dropped your your new draft guide, which is
you guys. Kudos to you guys that the work you
guys put into that is I got to give you

(04:56):
a round applause for that, because you guys absolutely kill
it with all and it's I always say this about
you guys different. It's the aesthetic. It's the way it
looks like it catches your eye. So not only do
you put great information, you know, and good information, not
just nonsense. They're like, what is that? What does that mean?
You guys put good information and then it just looks good.

(05:16):
It's just like it's going to attract the eye even
to someone who maybe doesn't even care about the draft.
But they're like, you know what, hey, this is this
is oh okay, I read this. So you guys do
a good job. Corey and all you guys do a
great work. But man, let's talk about the draft all right.
It's like a few weeks away and I wanted to
talk about this subject because this is obviously we came

(05:37):
into this draft thinking this might be you might get
a star in like the end of the first round.
That's how deep this draft we thought. And obviously we
knew from the top, even from the beginning of last year,
we knew. We knew about Cooper fly right, we know
about Darren Harper, we know about vj Edgcub, we know
about a Spaley, we know about Trip, you know about
those guys. But it was like, no, you can get

(05:58):
some maybe an all star level player, maybe in the teams,
maybe in the twenties. Now that the you know guys,
you know, with ni L and stuff, the names of
you know, there's not as many big names, especially at
that end of that first round. So and obviously with
n L it's changed the game, right, Like, guys, again,

(06:21):
like when we started doing this, this is what it's crazy, Eve,
when we started doing NBA draft though, Steve, this wasn't
even thought about, right.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Everything you say that it makes me feel older than
I feel like I should feel.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
When twenty feels like it was decades ago. We spent
eight months talking about Obe top and stuff, you know,
and uh, crazy you know, and I fell in love
with Killian Hayes and I still can't stand. Oh, it
pains my heart.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
I didn't fall for Kevin O'Connor, didn't fall for it,
just saying.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
I blame him. I blame him.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
He may be drinking, ob I think like first or
second on my board though, So you know, we.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
All have a lot of people made a lot of mistakes,
a lot.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
I did have Halliburton in my top four. I had Haliburton's.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Crazy all right, I'm glad you brought that up because
I every time people talk about I always bring you
up because I'm like, I know my Guystee and I
had him high, but I as high as you. I
had him like ten or something. But I was like, yo,
my guys Steven had him top four, They're like, really.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Romeo, because I had LaMelo third, and then I had
Halliburton and I almost I think I was on the
Witch Carolina podcast and I was talking with Lee about
it and I was like, dude, like I almost want
to put Tyri Reese on here. But you know, LaMelo's
got like the pedigree and like all this other stuff.
And there's some legit questions around Halliburton. That's why obviously
fel where he fell. I was like, man, I could

(07:44):
I could really be talking into him being being top three?

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, And I was, And I was pushing for him
to come to the neck because that was at that
point we didn't have a point guard and we were
still we were desperately you know, I think at that
point we got Kimball Walker or whatever, and it was
like the you know, the last legs of Kemball Walker
and stuff. I was like, can we just get a
point guard please? And uh, you know, we got our eventually,
but you know, but the ni L, it's a it's

(08:11):
a big thing, right and obviously you know we can
you can talk hours about ni L and whether it's
good or bad, you know how it goes with that.
That's a very controversial topic with some people. But obviously,
as we've seen, like I mentioned before, we thought this
class was gonna be loaded where even second round, pick lay,
first round you might get a really good player. Now
it seems like it's you know, the crop as obviously

(08:33):
feels and guys are taking the back and good for
them guys. Again, some of the numbers, the even are insane,
in insane some of these guys numbers. So for you, like,
how much did that affect some of you, like your evaluation,
because I'm sure and we talked about this before we
went on, like you you know, every every hour, I
felt like, well, this guy's taking his name out of

(08:55):
this guy's taking out So how much did that affect
your draft evaluation? You know, you know, prepare for everything.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Man, it it's crazy because you have to prepare like
everybody's going to stay in, right unless you get some
like you know, every once in a while, you know,
you get intel on a player, right, like you get
a heads up like hey, it might be leaning this way.
And once you get that, it's like you still have
to keep the player on the board until because I

(09:22):
won't lie. Like I got intel that like it was
looking like, you know, Yaxel was going to stay in
because he didn't commit until a certain point and it
looked like Michigan was going to move on from him,
and I got that intel, it's like okay, And then
of course, you know, talking talking with those ceilings about it,
it's like, hey, this is this is what might be happening.

(09:44):
But then the exact opposite happened, right because money is
a powerful motivator, right, so you never know. But then
when it drops, of course, Man, Like I'm even starting
my prep for my player pool for next year, and
I'm going back and looking at some of the names
that are returning to college basketball, and it's like, I

(10:05):
had this dude in my first round, Like I had
to hote Pettiford really high.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
I loved him.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
I love I loved him too. And then Boogie Flann
was like kind of late first round range. He he goes,
you know, JT. Topping, he pulled out early, right, but he's.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Not related to Obie Topping, by the way.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Not related to Obie Topping, so you can love.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Somebody tried to convince me he was. I was like, no,
trust me, I did the homework. He's not. Like, no,
he's related. I was like, no, they're not related. He's not.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
But I had him early second. So you have all
these in Yaxel. You know the guy we were just
talking about, I had him late first, early second too.
So once these players start pulling out, man, it like
it heavily influences your board because then once that happened,
you know, I'm talking to people, I'm like, man, the
back half of my second round, these priority undrafted players,

(10:56):
you know. But you know, with talking to people though,
you know, I talked to I think Keith Smiz was
our last guest that guests they had on our show,
and I talked to Kyle Boone from CBS Sports about
this too. NBA teams, Man, it feels like they're okay
with this because it doesn't match. Like Keith's exact words were,

(11:17):
the NBA doesn't care three hundred players declare for the
draft and then almost all them that go back in.
They don't care, right, It makes the work a little
bit easier on on their front. And I don't and
I don't know if the NBA would look to, like,
during the next collective bargaining agreement, look to restructure these
rookie scale contracts, because that's really what a lot of

(11:39):
people are asking the questions about now. It's like, does
the NBA need to step up so they can play
these guys. It's like, no, Like the nc Double A
is kind of the best developmental like pool the NBA has,
So the NBA is okay with guys going back and
developing and honing in their craft and then making money.

(11:59):
Is actually like a good like character test for these
NBA teams too, with like how do these do tannel
their money? What are they doing with it? Are they
taking as much as they can regardless of the fit
or where they end up playing, or are they smarter
with it? Like Cooper Flag could have had way more money,
but he actually he actually like kept the school in

(12:19):
line too, right, and he cared about like where he
was playing in the construct of his team. So it's
impactful on a lot of different guards, but particularly the
board man like it zapped kind of like the middle
of my draft board, which makes the work it a
little easier in some regard, but it also makes it
more difficult depending on how sick you are with how

(12:41):
many prospects you want to know, like who could be
your undrafted free agents for some teams and stuff like that.
But next year, I mean that makes the class all
the more interesting next year, right, Like we're talking about
this year being zapped.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
And next year's going to be loaded.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Next year is going to be loaded until the same
thing happens, right or maybe out you know, we never know.
We act like we do, but we never do.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, And and you made a good point with the
NBA teams not really chirping out over this, like you know,
with with the with the way the league is, it's
so young, right, like they're so like we're talking about
guys like reaching their pretend like their ceiling. You're talking
about their ceiling. They're already at their ceiling and they're
only twenty two, twenty three years old. Like we're still

(13:25):
like Jason, yeah, you know, we're talking about SGA, you know,
twenty five twenties. Even Tatum. Tatum feels like he's been
in the league forever and he's what twenty seven years old,
Like we talk about these guys and like, oh, because
we've seen him for so long. So I think the
NBA is probably like, you know what, this is fine
because we actually might get a more experienced player. You know,
we'll get a player that can actually play right away

(13:47):
instead of being like, oh, well, this guy might take
three three years before we even get anything from him. No,
this kid can play right now. You know, he's twenty two,
twenty one, you know, twenty three. He could step in
right now and help. Plus, you know, play ten to
fifteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
You know, and college basketball is getting stronger too, because
what are we seeing now, Chris, We're seeing like some
top international prospects instead of playing overseas and not necessarily
getting those same minutes because you know, those teams can
get relegated down in competition and lose money. There's a
lot of top international prospects that are looking to get
some innil money and learn American style ball so they

(14:22):
improve their draft stock too. So it's it's a far
reaching kind of you know, creature this Nio. It's tentacles.
They're all over the place.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
I mean, yes, I know that. The obviously the nil
some people think it's absolutely absurd, you know, with the
money and stuff. But in a weird way, also it's
helping college basketball because what do people talk about like, oh,
I don't know who's on these teams anymore, the one
and don Era, I don't know who's on these teams. Well,
now you're going to get to know who's on these teams.
Now they may go some world, but you've seen this

(14:53):
person play for three to four years. He may have
been on three or fourteen, but you've seen him play, right,
You've been establishing, you know, so you know you're gonna
see Skuys of Alburn Florida. Those guys, you know, be
there for a while, you know. So that's the good part.
So coused basketball benefits this, I said, I think the
NBA in the long term, but like you said, you

(15:14):
probably have guys who you probably gave undrafted grades, you know,
two way contract grades, and now they're gonna get bumped.
You know, maybe they're in the top forty now top
forty five. I'm sure that I looked at my thing
and I'm like, oh God, that guy was like in
the seventies. For me, I think he's gonna be he
might be top forty five, just the way everything the ball,

(15:36):
the board has fallen, like he might be.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Ah, let me go watch some Eric Dixon film again,
because this dude might get in the in the top
forty five to fifty.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
You know, he benefits. There's a lot of guys that
benefit from this, and he's what And that kind of
rolls into my next thing. Who has been the biggest
beneficiary of all these guys going back because I can think,
like you just just said one name, and I like
Eric Dixon, but I my thing was like, he's crazy
efficient at all three levels, but he has ranged but

(16:06):
defensively not not the great and he's twenty four years old.
But and but that was before I you know, I
still had those things. But as far as like man,
I don't know if he will get drafted because of that.
And now with everyone gone, he might be. He might.
I think he's gonna get drafted now. So who are
the name that you think benefit the most from everyone
going back to school?

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, he very well made. I'll throw out a name
that is picking up a lot of steam. A lot
of NBA teams like him, Like he might even get
drafted higher than what some like draft outlets are putting.
That's Kobe Brea out of Kentucky, you know.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Or Corey did a thing on him, He had him all.
He interviewed me. He gets the lights out shooter.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, I mean he did. And Corey you know, had
him on for his film session. This kid is like
you talk about ninetieth percentiles in almost every shooting metric, right, Like,
this kid is just a laser and he's got good size.
This was one of Keith Smith's favorite prospects when I
had him on that he brought up and it's because
and if NBA guys like Keith are looking at him.

(17:08):
That lets you know that this guy's got some real
momentum and possibility of really sticking right about six foot seven,
hyper efficient three point shooter, like over every season that
he has ever played, like and we've seen him in
multiple contexts. Now we saw him playing Dayton with some
really talented players, and now he played in an NBA
friendly system with Kentucky. Now, the big thing is is

(17:31):
that his usage rate is like anemically low, which usage
rate is sometimes a pretty strong indicator for like pro outcomes.
But if you look at his responsibility, I mean, this
dude was just a walking strap, as Corey would say,
Like this dude hits everything all over the court, and
he's getting like some early second even some late first

(17:54):
round buzz. Now, so obviously that doesn't happen if guys
like Boogie flan or staying in the drafter yaxe El
lenin board. You're probably looking at Kobe now as like
a mid to late second round guy potentially in New York.
Nick Now, I would be really surprised if we see
his name get picked in a number that starts with

(18:17):
a fourth, you know, like that's how high I think
that he benefits from this Now, I'll give you another
name too, Hanson Yang from.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Okay about him because he feels like he's one of
the biggest rises, Like he had a really I think
a lot of people worried about him, like his you know,
his defensive stuff and then if he can translate to
playing with American guys, and he seemed like he was
one of the biggest winners of the combine.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Dude, I'll tell you we have internal conversations about him
and no ceilings all the time. And I forget who
else it was, but I know me and Corey were like,
if he ended up being like one of the twenty
best players in this class, it wouldn't be all that
surprise despite him not being ranked that high. Well, think

(19:04):
about what works in the NBA, man, like and you
know this right, but just it's all oddities. It's not
like we always say, like this is a type of role,
right that everybody wants. But like the players who truly
break out like they're a special breed and they're and
look at who the top players in the NBA or
NBA are now Like SGA mid first round pick, Tyre's

(19:27):
Halliberg mid first round pick. You don't pick those guys
because you think they're going to be m v ps
and like, you know, conference final contenders, right, but they
grow into that because they have unique traits and abilities.
And that's what made Hands Jokic, you know, second round pick.
But and funnily enough, like there are some strong similarities

(19:48):
between Yang and Jokic. I'm not sitting here telling you
he'll be Jokic, but if you look at the pre
draft stuff around both of them, there's some weird, some
weird similarities there. But the thing that made Hands in
such a difficult scout, it's like, listen, everybody who scouts
the draft knew who Hands and Yang was like everybody, yeah, right,
but what do you do with the CBA standouts? And

(20:10):
this is conversations that I've had is like it was
a little bit of this with the Thompson twins too,
and over time elite. Everyone hated the overtime elite when
the Thompsons were there and they weren't like necessarily the
most efficient. Or you look at what LaMelo Ball did
when he was playing in Australia. He wasn't super efficient either.
But what stands out on the film there's unique traits,

(20:32):
there's unique abilities that they have regardless of the competition.
And I think that's what we should be looking at
when we look at these at these players playing in
unorthodox leagues. Because Yang is obviously huge, yes for the CBA,
but he's a huge individual just like for like Planet
Earth still too, so like he's he's gonna be big
in the NBA too, right, But also his processing, the

(20:55):
way that he can see the floor and the way
that he can pass, like there is there is always
room in the NBA for a big man who can
be efficient, who he might project a long term as
a three point shooter. But then there's also the thing that,
like the offense can flow through him. And if you're
going to be a big man in today's NBA, the

(21:16):
offense has to flow through you or your role is
going to be incredibly limited. The floor the floor could
be scary, but the ceiling can also be like super
duper high. With a guy like Hanson Yang, who isn't
really getting talked about like that because he's just not
as a known of a commodity and the last name

(21:37):
I'll give you as like a player who's benefiting you know,
Yannik Conan Niederhauser out of Penn State. He's another winner,
and he looked good in the compound, just like Hanson
Yang did. He reminds me, dude, of like what if
Hassan Whiteside was a little bit more buttoned up, you
know what I mean? Like he gives me a lot

(21:57):
of Hassan Whiteside vibes because he does jump at almost
everything he sees, but he has like freak traits. He
did average twelve points per game despite having a limited
like offensive ability. So you can look at that as like, Okay,
the role is simple, or you can look at as
like he's still figuring stuff out and he averaged twelve

(22:18):
points per game. But you know he's gonna rebound crazy good.
He's a big, strong body, he's gonna set screens well,
and he's gonna be a heck of a crazy rim
to turn too. And like there's conversations about him now
being a late first round pick, which otherwise if more
of these top names stayed in, I don't think you
see that happen.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, And like I said, he's def he might be
the biggest winner out of those three. I think I
think with Kobe Bray, like I thought I was about
to do some stuff for Nicks Fan TV and put
him as a as someone the Nick should be targeting.
And now I'm like, I think, I think he might
get a big bump because, like you said, elite shooter,
you know, and what do teams want? They want they

(22:59):
want shooters, you know. And now with everyone you know
bowing out and going back, I think he's definitely one
of the biggest winners.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
That's making noise at the right time.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, exactly one. And but anitahuser like he he's the
one that I think everybody wants those. And like we're
seeing in a little bit of a comeback with you know,
we've seen a lot of two big lineups. I see
my next week they insert Mitchell Robinson to go with
you know Kat, and we've seen Kat will go Bear.
We've seen multiple at see a lot of teams do it,
you know. We see with Okay, see with with Hardenstein

(23:31):
and and check, you know, so we're seeing a lot
of that. So guys like that, people want, teams want
those those room running bigs, and so I think he
he definitely, uh definitely benefits so and and like you
mentioned with Yang, he's someone that I knew of, didn't
know much of, didn't know how much he can translate.
But a lot of the physical tests he did at

(23:54):
the combine and he was They're like, yeah, he's actually
did pretty well. We did a lot better. You know,
I forgot one of you guy. I talked about it.
I was like, okay, and then started reading. I was
like okay, and then he's like, did the scrimmages. He
he performed really well on scrimmages.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
He filled it out in space. He blocked the sea
on James three pointers, like defending him out on the perimeter.
And it's like, okay, like there's there's gotta be something here,
like even if it's like rotational big like as a ceiling,
there's something there.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
You know, someone's gonna take a chance on him. Especially
like you said, these guys bound out, Someone's gonna take
a chance on him, and just you know, you never know.
Somebody took a chance on the cook.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
It worked out pretty work out, all right, Yeah, yeah, pretty.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Well, you know I would. Yeah, he's been absolutely tremendous.
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(25:19):
you need tickets, anything you want to go to, use
a promo call on OTB ball for twenty hours off
your first purchase at seki dot com. But all right, Steven,
I know the Knicks don't have their first round pick
because they traded eighty seven picks. They get Michel Bridges.
I'm still upset about that, but I'm trying to get

(25:40):
over that still. But they were supposed to have two
second round picks, but one essentially they got for Brunson.
If you want to see it that way, and you tampering,
I always say, well worth it. If a second round
pick was what it was, well worth it for to
get Jalen Brunt sit all NBA ty, so it was
worth it. But uh, it's a new era for the Knicks.

(26:02):
We don't know who they have coaches yet for the Knicks.
But Tom Thibodeau uh is no longer the head coach.
He was let go a few days ago. So, and
I am a TIBs guy, you know. And you know,
there's not a lot of Knicks fans who are Tips guy,
but I was. But I understood why they let go
of him. His lack of development of the young players,

(26:23):
the lack of trust. I think more of that he
didn't have. So I think, whoever the new coaches we're
gonna see, you know, we're gonna see them use the
guy they.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
There's a lot of smoke behind that right now.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
You know what. No, yeah, the Jason kids stuff. My
thing is, I'm whoever the coach I want, whoever they coaches,
if they believe that they can develop the guys off
the bench, the young guys come up to the guys
they drafted last year in Colic and pecone and mcculors. Uh.

(26:59):
And how That's that's the coach I want because those
guys maybe the difference between us being back, you know,
going to an NBA finals or having the same faith
because Indiana, I think we're I think we have more
better talent in Indiana. But why Indiana is in the
finals and we are not is because they trusted their

(27:20):
bench and the development of those guys. The development of
Natesmith's getting him from Boston when he wasn't getting used right,
developing prop obviously Halliburton, his development was was key. You
know them Hart second round pick, you know, developing him properly,
that was the key. And I felt like if we
do that, we could be on our way to get
especially with the way the East is. It's Steven, It's

(27:41):
wide open. Boston is tum Boston is you know, we
know they're going to go through their stuff with their
Apron stuff and Tatum with the Achilles.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Honest might not be there.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Jest might not be there, you know, so you know,
we'll see. So however, whoever they can get that can
develop those guys and bring some more modization to the offense.
You know, Tips, just listen. Tips is an old school coach.
He's in his old ways. But but I always one
thing about Tips that no matter what, no matter what

(28:13):
you think about him as a coach, he brought us
back to relevancy and good relevancy because we're always gonna
be relevant, right even you know the Nicks, always gonna
be relevant for good or for bad. It's it was
for good for the last five years. So I give
him a lot of props for that. But whoever could
I know, Johnny Bryant at one thought was supposed to
be potential, but now it's kind of shifted to maybe

(28:36):
a more established coach. So and I know Jason Kidd
has had some we're not playing young guys, but he
also had Luca so and Kyrie, so I can understand him.
You're not playing young guys pretty young. Luca's still young,
you know. I know we're aging him and he's probably
like twenty four five years old, you know. But see
I did, I did what I said before, you know,
But uh, you know, we'll see, we'll see. I just

(28:58):
think this is a very This might be the most
important hire that we've had in a long long time,
because this can this either we I feel like we
had to make this pivot, but this is either going
to help us get to that goal of finally winning
a championship for the first time in fifty three years
or or set us back. And I feel like you

(29:21):
had to make this move because you really felt like
he couldn't get you to the next step and you're
so close, so you've got to be able to capitalize
on that. And listen, the Raptors did it six years
ago with with you know, when they fired Dwayne Casey
was a coach of the year, you know, and you
know obviously they got Kawhi too, and that helped them
win a championship. So fingers cross Steven, you know, So

(29:42):
all right, nixt I mean the fifty pick, there's not
been a lot, not a lot of Knicks fans are
gonna be excited over this pick. But who are some
name that you could potentially see that can can maybe
help them out with the fifty pick.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
So the first name that I'll throw your way is
I feel like is probably gonna be something happening with
the center position in New York. I don't know who,
I don't know when, but and I know party is decent,
but not someone you want to be afraid to draft over,
especially with the second round pick. A guy who I

(30:17):
think would be really good in New York, kind of
in a similar to a Mitch Robinson's type role would
be Dylan Cardwell out of Auburn. I think that he
would be good. He was the center, played alongside Jeni Broom,
so Jani could kind of do more on the perimeter.
But Cardwell, dude, he's very simple game. He is huge,

(30:39):
He'll set screens, he will run to the rim. He
is like the type of dunking big that makes you
think of like a Javel McGee type big man dunk
here right like, he he'll throw down, he'll I think
that he would be a fan favorite if he ever
played in New York just because his personality, Like he's

(31:01):
very expressive and he will let you know when he
does something good, and he'll let you know that he
disagrees if he does something wrong, which I think which I.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Think he's a New Yorker, then he's a natural New Yorker.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
He's a natural New Yorker for lack of a better word.
But I think that just the experience that he had
playing an Auburn very well coached team a lot of
talent around him did all the garbage man, dirty work,
like dive on the floor type big man, you know, like,
I think.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
That Knicks fans would love that. They love that type
of player, that blue collar type of.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
I think that he would be a very real possibility.
There some other names I think. Look, Peyton Sanford didn't
have like the best year this year at Iowa, especially
as a shooter, but historically, like his shooting numbers are ridiculous,
I could see him coming in and being just like

(31:58):
a reliable for space in the mold of like a
Sam Houser or a Sam Merle who I know is
like your guy.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Oh, I'm so happy he's doing good now.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
I know, man, I know that's your boy. But I
think that Peyton Sanford could be that type of a player.
Will Richard is getting a lot of buzz the Florida Gator.
I don't know if he would be there, but if
he is available at fifty Chris, this might be like
the most ideal in New York, Nick that you could
get it at that spot. He reminds me a lot

(32:30):
of He reminds me so much of Danny Green because
he's shorter than he plays, but he is like a
dogged defender. He is a he's a fantastic three point shooter.
He's got connective playmaking chops. I just like he will
go in and do a job just like he did
in Florida. So if I had to, if I had

(32:53):
to leave you with some names, and I'd be remiss.
You know, if we didn't bring up the aforementioned Eric
Dixon just because one he's too would be funny, just
to keep the Villanova nixt thing going. But yeah, super
productive dude, like can score inside, can score outside, show
some real versatility on the defensive end. I loved watching him.

(33:13):
He was one of the guys that I actually got
to watch when I went to the Portsmouth Invitational tournament.
You could tell like that he played at Villanova or
because he was just out there communicating, communicating settings, like
doing all the winning type stuff. Right. So I think
if I had to give you, I could go all
day long on this curse, you know me. But if

(33:33):
I had to give you, like a list of four
realistic prospects that could be available at fifty that I
think would fit New York's identity, I would give you
those names.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah, And you know I did a space maybe a
few days ago, and I had brought up Eric Dixon,
and now a lot of people were interested in him
because obviously fairly local ish, you know, Villanova not too
far from here in New York, so and a lot
of people he was on TV a lot, and you know,
people would ask me about him. I say, man, he's efficient,
crazy efficient, like at all three levels and and not

(34:04):
say a lot of experience and obviously playing at a
good program at Villanova, some defensive things that work on.
But he has the like he has a Julius Randall
type of frame, you know, and at times he's like, yeah,
you're very boxy and strong, and there's there's sometimes his
offense You're like, that's very Julius Randall like. And he

(34:25):
has range too, like he could shoot it from deep.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
To ridiculous range, ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Range, you know. So like that's someone people were like, yeah,
I like him. You know, obviously he's an older but
you know, you know, like I said, that does that
doesn't It's not a bivorites factor, as he once used
to being. Obviously, with all the guys coming, you're not
really worried about that. You're trying to get someone who
can potentially you know, play right away for you, so
that and then we'll Richie. I love all the Florida guys.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, I love all the guards. About another one that
talk about.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
One and like I said that one we're we're talking about.
I was going to write a available it won't be there,
and it hurts me because somebody we were just talking
about it in the in the Knicks fan TV chat
and I was like, yo, and he won't be there.
We'll talk about him, but that some interesting Max said
the Knicks, Like I said, it's the fiftieth pick, so

(35:15):
it's you're not gonna get too excited about it unless
you're mean. I'm probably the only thing you'll be excited
with me, me and you. It's funny because I said, I'm.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Excited about your undrafted two way guys that y'all pick up, Like, well,
we'll be out about all of them.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Man. I would be in the chat talking and they'd
be like, why are you getting excited about this guy?
I'm like, no, you have to like he's good, he's
being a stick. He's gotta let him play, and I'm
just not there anmos So we might be able to
play some of you guys. So no, some interesting names.
The Colway's an interesting big you know, definitely got Paint
Safford interesting, another interesting player can shoot the numbers are

(35:51):
I think he'll be better mid potential at the next level.
So definitely some interesting interesting names for the nick with
the fiftieth pick. But let's talk about some sleepers, some
guy that you realize, like I said, we mentioned we
kind of teased a little bit about one of those guys,
but you got it. We got three names that we're
gonna talk about as as sleeper. So Steven, just talk

(36:12):
about three sleepers that you really like that people need
to know more about.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
So I was actually just like tickled to death whenever
I looked up this first player's numbers, because I have
him twelfth on my board, and I know that that
is not where consensus has them. As a matter of fact,
you know, are mutual friend Corey. He does like the
draft drankings where he like takes every reputal consistence board

(36:39):
bulls him down together and like ranks people based on
like literal consensus from like you know, the athletic, the ringer,
so on and so forth. Right, he ranked twentieth on
their average. I have him twelve, and that's for sheer fleming,
the kind of combo forward big man out of Saint
Joseph Junior, barefoot. He measured six foot eight and a

(37:02):
quarter two hundred and thirty two pounds. He'll be about
twenty one years old. Chris seven foot five and a
quarter inch wingspan. That's insane.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
And it's even before you go, I know, we get
we get very enthralled with wingspans, right, but a seven
foot five wingspan.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
That's different on a six foot eight frame.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
On a six foot eight frame exactly.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
That's that's stupid. He's also Chris nine foot one and
a half inch standing reach, like just standing still, like
can almost touch the room. I wish a six foot
eight man. That's stupid. I really like him a lot.
I think what people have a hard time with him

(37:47):
is like projecting the role. Yeah, I think it's pretty clear. Right,
he's long and he's strong. The measurements were huge for
him because I think that he can give you some
versatility in the front, right. He projects to be a
good play finisher. But I think the bigger questions are
gonna come with the handle and even the decision making,

(38:07):
which was okay, he only had a zero point eight
assistant turnover ratio. So the questions come with can you
trust him to have the offense flow through him? But
in my opinion, Chris, like even if you, even if
he struggles in that regard, he's so efficient. He's such
a good defender man. He had a four point nine
block percentage of two point six steals percentage. And if

(38:29):
you don't care about that, just listen to this. Everyone
knows that stocks, right, that steals and blocks put together.
This dude had one hundred and three stocks to only
eighty eight bowels committed. So on defense he had one
hundred and three stocks and foiled only eighty eight times. Right,
that's a good ratio.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
It's discipline, It's very good discipline.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
That's a that's a good ratio. He did grow into
a legit three point shooter this year, which I don't
think got enough buzz. He shot thirty nine percent on
over eight attempts per one hundred possessions, which is really
really good, especially for his position. Perc energy, he shot
forty three percent on fifty eight open three point shots. Chris,

(39:13):
and then when he was guarded on one hundred and
one guarded three point shots he shot thirty six point
six percent, Like that's that's very good, man. So like
I'm looking at this guy who can rebound, was in
the ninety fifth percent tile as a cutter, the ninetieth
in transition, the seventy sixth in putbacks, the seventy first
as a roller, in the sixty second as a spot

(39:36):
up guy. I'm like, how in the world does this
dude like in late first early second round range on
some really smart people's board, like where I see him ranked.
It makes me feel like I don't know what I'm
doing for raking him as high as I do, Like
I have him in my like over some really popular
names like I'll put it to you that way, like

(39:57):
I have him in a range with CMB and Tom
Soorber like just underneath like Cedric Coward and uh, you
know names like that. So I love him, and I
I think he's a sleeper in the sense that like, yes,
everyone knows like who he is, yeah, but people are

(40:17):
sleeping on how talented this dude is and how well
his game figures to translate to the NBA.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, Like I just feel like he's going to be good,
Like how good is But I just think he's going
to be good. Like his floor is really high, Like
his floor is really high. I think it could be,
like even like a nas Reed type, Like I don't
know why I keep having that vision, but like and
I'm not big on the handle of right, Like I
see like a nas reads Like no Reed is a

(40:45):
knockdown shooter. Like I could see what Shia Fleming being
that type of player. If that's what he is, that's
a really good player. That's that guy's gonna get twenty
five million dollars on the market this whole season. You know.
So that's a really good part.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Even if he's Obie Topping, Like, still pick that player
at twelve, right, Like, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Take over the exactly exactly. Obi Toppin's making what fifteen
to twenty minute and he's a big, big, big piece
in the rotation for Indiana's in the finals. Yeah, he's
in the finals, up the win game one with with
five six threes, you know. Yeah, And Brashier might be
is a better probably a better defender, way better defender
than toppen is already and top has been at least

(41:25):
for five years, so you get that. Yeah, he's he's
someone where I've seen in he's crazy because I feel
like in the beginning of the like draft process, like
maybe after March Madest stuff, like he was a hot
name and then you cooled off because I remember hearing
like top lottery buzz I was like okay, and then
he felt like he like you said, the consensus every

(41:47):
mock I've seen of late it's in the twenties, you know,
late twenties, people kind of died out on him. But
I'm like, no, he should be in that lottery range
because I mean, you watch his game, You're like, and
then then I always feel like, all right, when you
see the stats, a right stats can lie and then
you're like, all right, how can I Does the stats
match the game film? Yes, you know, and then you

(42:08):
watch the game film You're like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah
it matches. And then you see that you know, obviously
the frame, the seven foot five wingspan, you know on
a six to six ten frame, you're like six' nine,
Frame you're, like, okay, yeah, yeah this, kid this kid's
gonna be, Good like he could fit anyway this players
that need to be on this on a certain team
to fit even some of the higher end path like

(42:29):
there's some of the guys who might go top. Five i'm,
like if they go, THERE i don't know if they're
going to ask. Success they got to go to specific
team with. HIM i feel, like, hey, man you go
ANYWHERE i think he's gonna fit.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Perfect, Yeah i'm with, that, Man i'm with.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
That who's your next? Guy all?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Right next? Guy we talked about him. Earlier we tease
him he might be my like literal favorite prospect in this,
class and That's Elijah martin out Of, florida the guard
Red shirt senior six foot one and a half, farefoot
which was a great measurement for. HIM a lot of
people were nervous about. That two hundred and eight and

(43:06):
a half, pounds will be twenty three years old Around draft.
Night six foot seven and a half inch, wingspan so
another plus six wingspan here with our boy, lives which
which is huge for, him, right and eight foot three
and a half inch standing reach Or, CHRIS i have
him thirtieth on my board as someone that loves, him,

(43:28):
right BECAUSE i understand that there are ways that this doesn't. Work,
LIKE i get that because he's an undersized, Guard but,
dude you might have a hard time finding a bigger
fan of him outside his. Mom maybe THAT i love.
Him where do you got? Him you got him that?

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Range in that range? Too, Okay, OKAY i, KNOW i
know he's he's he's probably a lot lower on most people's,
boy he's probably in that forty to. Fifty i've seen
him even lower than. THAT i don't. KNOW i watch.
HIM i see a guy who's an absolute. Doll he's
he's he's, athletic he's. Strong you. Know you just watch
him in the in the last three games of the,

(44:06):
tournament and he's just a hardening. People he's locking up, People,
like what was? IT i remember there was a game
he played Against Mark sears And Mark seris is An All,
american locked him, up locked him up in the, blender you,
know so like he just walked out Hot pediford Guarded
pediford was locking him.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Up Denver, Jones, YEAH i love.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
HIM i LOVE i don't. CARE i, maybe LIKE i,
said you have, Him i'm cool with having him there
and If i'm, wrong BUT i don't, KNOW i just feels.
RIGHT i feel like he's he's going to be a good.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
PLAYER i got a chance to interview him, man and.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
YEAH i was about to mention, that so you got
the interview.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Too, Yeah and like my favorite story about him come
WHEN i think it was like late in the conference
tournament or like right before N cuba, Tournament Like elijah
got together with like one of the student managers and was, like,
hey can you help me with the. Project they're, like what's.
That he's, LIKE i want to get a picture of
where everybody came from before they played At, florida, Right

(45:07):
and that included Like Walher Clayton, junior WHO i was
getting buzz about From Brandon pajemski back when he played
against you, Know Walter clayton AT, iona, Right like he
Was he's got pictures of like where everybody used to
play before they got To, florida and it was, like you,
know never forget where you came from and while we're,
Here like he was like such a mature emotional leader

(45:28):
on a team that went won AN ncaa. Championship but
the thing about, him, man is like even AT fau
where he helped that team go to The final four
the year Before, florida he played like the three in the,
Four like that's how athletic he. Is he played in
the front court on A final four. Team you, know
he just makes winning. Plays you talked about like the

(45:50):
tournament he had like three rebounds Against, auburn which you, know, okay,
sure like that's an l right, Number but find me
three more important rebound in the. Game you can't. Like
he just like steps up and knows how to make
those type of. Plays you talked about his. Athleticism he
had twenty nine dunks on the. Year nine of them
came in the half. Court chris at under six foot two,

(46:12):
right he had a thirty eight inch for which tied
for eleventh in the. Combine that ranked over guys Like
Trey johnson And Jeremiah. Fears he was tenth in the
three quarter. Sprint he shot better on side threes on
the combine than names Like Cooper, Flag Cedric, Coward Ace,
Bailey Cosper, Shaka, Shonas Will, riley And Cam. Jones he's

(46:34):
a good rebounder for his position in. Height he had
a four point five offensive rebound percentage in a ten
point eight defensive rebound. Percentage he's improved as a. Shooter
he shot thirty five percent on over eleven tempts per one.
Hundred that's ridiculous, numbers, Right and if you want to
look at the open three point, jumpers he shot thirty
eight point four percent on, those and then even threes

(46:56):
off the bounce he connected on almost thirty six. Percent
he Makes he's not like a lead, guard which is
kind of like the problem with projecting him because he's
got a decent, handle but he's not going to break
anyone down off the, dribble and he's probably not gonna
run like a lot of pick and. Rolls but he
makes good. Decisions but you talked about him being a dog,
dude like he guards up the, lineup like names that

(47:18):
you would think that he has no business trying to.
Defend he does two point seven still. Percentage and then
back to the stocks versus fouls committed, Game chris sixty
six stocks and for a guy who's known for like
the toughest defense of assignments For, florida he only had
fifty four fouls the entire Year chris against all the

(47:39):
names in THE sec that he, guarded.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Right LIKE sec, guards like high LEVEL sec guard forwards, too.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Like big dudes didn't foul. Him, yeah that's, insane that's.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
Impressive that's. YEAH i love. HIM i love. Him he's
grown on me by the. Week he's grown on. ME
i don't, Know I'm I'M i got him blocked. IN
i think HE i would take him in the into
the first.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Round i'm close to some people in his. Camp, Dude
i'll put it to you like, THIS a lot of
the teams that play in like The midwest really love.
Him and based on What i'm, HEARING i would be
surprised if he goes past pick forty, Four like that's

(48:26):
WHAT i would be shocked if he fell that. Far
But i'll tell, you like a lot of teams in
the upper thirties want him because look at look at the, playoffs,
right everyone wants to copycat the playoffs. Exactly The pacers
and The thunder both have guys who are like below
six foot four like in terms of, hight but they

(48:46):
have such high motor at the guard, positions and they
fly around the court and they rebound and they, defend
and they can hit the occasional three point. Shot like
EVEN tj McConnell like isn't like the most knockdown three point,
Shooter like he's below thirty five percent for his entire,
career but he plays on winning teams because of his
effort and, Hustle like you mean to tell me That
Elijah martin can't do some of what we're watching in

(49:08):
the playoffs right, Now, like come, On i'm.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
With you one. Hundred, yeah HE'S i think he's another
big winner of this, uh this, draft with all these
guys going, up going back to. SCHOOL i think he's
gonna be a big. Winner LIKE i, said HE'S i
would be. SHOCKED i would be shocked if he's if
he's past forty, Five like he should be a top
forty five. PICK i meant him AND i think he's
he should. BE i think he's a first round. Pick
BUT i would be shocked if he get his past forty.

(49:33):
Five like he's that good of a.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Player i'm with. It i'm with, it, yeah, Man LIKE
I i want to put him, higher but at some
POINT i got to be, like AM i just fanbling right?

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Now?

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, no, no, yeah, yeah. YEAH i think we've learned from.
That you, know sometimes when you you you love the
guys so much and you don't want, to you, know
and then it's, like, ah you, know but he's he's,
Good like there were, signs you, know, yeah, yeah all,
right who's your last? Sleeper last?

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Sleeper this is not a popular, name BUT i have
him thirty three on my, Board Hunter salas out Of
wake for, us he's like a combo guard wing perimeter
player type. Guy was a senior barefoot measured six foot
three and three, Quarters so you're looking at a guy
like nearing six foot six when he's wearing tennis, shoes
only one hundred and eighty one point four, pounds which

(50:20):
kind of like is a detractor because he's always been
kind of like slider frame his entire college. Career about
twenty two years, old six foot ten inch, Wingspan. Chris
another wingspan guy here that was that was not, intentional
LIKE i did not pick these guys because of their,
wingspan but eight foot four and a half inch standing.
Reach like last, Year, chris this dude was getting like

(50:42):
late first, round early second round, considerations, Right and if
you look at what happened this, year it's. Subtle it's
like super subtle because their roster is largely the. Same
but they Lost Andrew, carr who was great for their.
Team he underperformed At, kentucky but he was great for their.
Team he was like another pressure point within the offense

(51:05):
that Wake forest could go to and. Trust they've Lost Andrew,
carr they didn't really replace him with, anybody and the
front of everything fell on you, Know Hunter sallas's somewhat slender.
Shoulders let me contextualize, it like, this last, year Wake
forest ranked fortieth and three point, efficiency which is pretty,
solid like fortieth in all of college of. Basketball, Chris

(51:29):
let me ask you, this where do you think they
ranked this?

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Year they Were they weren't, good so it's got to
be pretty. Low let me give. You let me, say just, guess.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Try three hundred and fifty.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Ninth oh My, steven there's only like three hundred and sixty.
TEAMS i think there's only three hundred and.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Fifty and somehow nine nine high schools, better.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
The online Schools university Of arizona worse than.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Them, Dude i'm telling. You but like all, seriously like last,
year he went from forty percent from deep on.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
OVER i know it is dipped a.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Lot it went to twenty eight percent this, year, Right
and you could, say, well look At Gonzago da da
da da, da but also look at the fact That
Hunter salas was like all you had to do was
game plan against. Him everything else falls apart for Wake, Force,
right he was, insane, Right, so And i'll put it
to you like, this when he was when he had

(52:25):
open three point shots this, year he still shot thirty
seven percent this. Year, Okay so all, RIGHT i, think, dude,
seriously the Wake forest context was very like so very not.
Good and that's just one, example like just pointing to
the three point. Shots right beyond, That salas still had
twenty two dunks on the, season by the, way with

(52:45):
a decent free throwright of thirty. Two he scored on
almost fifty five percents on his, twos which grades very,
high and eighty percent from the, line so they're still touch.
Indicators he was seventy fourth percentile at the rim and
in the fifty ninth on hise. Jumper so there's still
like there's a heartbeat still in that offense, somewhere despite
the poor three point shooting from the entire. Team, Right

(53:08):
and he didn't turn the ball over very much, Either,
Right and you, look he was in the seventy fifth
percent tle on pick and roll sets including. Passes he
was in the eighty third percentile on. Handoffs he was
in the seventy first operating in, isolation and again still
with poor three point shooting, numbers he was in the
sixtieth percentile according To synergy on spot ups, right so

(53:29):
athletically a freak had a thirty seven and a half
inch max vert right Behind Elijah, martin and that showed on,
defense where he had almost had a black percentage as
a guard of, two which is, insane and then a
still a two percent still. Percentage the Biggest knox against
in man is like Wake forest was, ugly and you can, say,

(53:50):
yeah you're the star of the, team that's kind of your,
fault but, Like, chris are we really gonna are we
really gonna put a three hundred and night team ranking
swing and three point efficiency all at the feet of Under,
salas like because that's what it feels. Like like some
people don't even want to draft, him And i'm, like my,

(54:11):
good which man?

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Crazy like you, said like last year people were, like,
yo this guy might be like a top twenty, pick
like he's that, good you, know and now you don't
Hear you're not hearing much about, Him Like i've seen
boards where he's outside of the top, sixty which is
crazy to think that one point last, year people had
him as a first, round top twenty.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Pick dude and, it AND i get it, right LIKE
i get it there there are some things that he regressed,
on like as a, Player Like i'm not sitting here
and trying to prop him up as like some, perfect perfect,
player BUT i will contextualize things Like i'm. Big there's
a difference between context and. Excuses, right wait for it

(54:51):
was like an absolute. Mess AND i saw what they
looked like when they had a semblance of another playmaker
on their team outside of, him and it and it
was a lot. Better, like, dude, seriously we were like
mocking him To, orlando like in the late first round
and thinking that that's a great fit For orlando now scoring,
guard yeah, Exactly and now like my man. Can't he

(55:15):
can barely get in second round conversations. Anymore So i'm just,
like there's someone, still there's a good player still in, there,
Right he's just he's too. Talented he's too, Talented.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
And that's the, thing and that's the risk you. Do
that's the risk you take when you go back to
school when especially if you're an older type of, Prospect
because like you, said there was people talking about him
in that at least meant at worst he was a
top forty, pick you, know definitely hop back into the.
First and now we're not even hearing, anything LIKE i don't,
know there's not a lot of mocks or you, know

(55:48):
any big boards THAT i see that he's in the top,
sixty which is which is, crazy and, that LIKE i,
said that's the risk you. Take and like you, said
he still can. Score but obviously his efficiency numbers were
a bit. Down and you, know.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
That's what you got to do in THE nba if
you want to come off the, bench is you got
a score and that's what you can.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Do, Man like you can do, that you. Know so
like you, said there's still a good player in, there you.
Know and that's and that's the thing like we see
with so many like and that's where you meant context
is very key because we see you you can see
some players And i'll get people who are not big
into their drafts, like, well this guy shot thirty eight
percent from the field AND i And i'm, like, well

(56:28):
understand college, basketball and like you got to watch this
team who is he surrounded? With you, know you have
to understand that because not everyone's, playing you, know not everyone's.
That if you're a, dude you're not playing with the
top five, pick top ten, pick number one pick, here
you're not. Playing you, know if you're at a certain, school
you might not even have a guy that's good enough
to play, overseas you, know on your. Team so obviously

(56:49):
context is very. Key but also you, know you take
a risk coming back and this is happening like you're
sometimes when your stock is looking it's. There there's obviously
benefits now with now you can get some, coin, right
but you got. It if the main thing is still
the n B, a you have to still put that
in perspect, right all, RIGHT i still got to focus on.

(57:09):
That and if that's the, case you, know if you don't,
hear it's gonna be crazy to think that his name
might not be called drafted in just a year before
were he might have been, There he might have been
in the in The Barkley, center you, know and get
his get the Shake Adam silver's, hand and now and
now and then that journey is now it's a lot tougher.

(57:31):
Now that journey now you gotta you, gotta you gotta
fight through Summer, league you, know to make get a roster.
Spot hopefully you can get two way or something and,
now but the road's a lot. Harder but we'll. See
he's still a very talented kid and he can. Score but,
uh you, know wait for. US i know the record
indicates they were, good BUT acc was absolutely. Garbage so

(57:52):
that record is not what it looks. Like they were
not a good basketball, team you, Know.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
And i'll put it to you like this, man he
still had A bpm of like almost five on on that,
team as like the, dude you, know, YEAH i don't.
Know like, Again i'm not advocating that he should be
like a top twenty prospect or anything like. That there's
obvious there's obvious reasons why he is where he. Is
BUT i think at some, point like once you start

(58:19):
getting to some names like come, on Like Hunter salace
can't score like with these dudes like.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah and maybe he benefits with all these.
Guys you, know we just talked about, guys a bunch of,
guys you, know and everyone's gonna get a nice. Bump
there's gonna be guys, that like you said that you
have in your board on board and all these all
these top you, know drafted values that are gonna get
a huge bump simply because somebody got to get a.
Bump somebody gotta get drafted at forty five, fifty you,

(58:46):
know somebody you know that maybe wouldn't have gotten, drafted you. Know,
uh but we're gonna see a lot of those in this.
Draft but, Man, steven my, man always that was that
was a lot of. FUN i, SAID i always loved
talking draft of, you, Buddy. Man that was a lot of.
Fun it's, UH i talk about this a. Lot there's

(59:09):
not a lot of people in this that Like I've
i've met a lot of. PEOPLE i interviewed a lot of,
people but there's not a lot of people Who i'm,
like that's my, Guy like that's truly my. Guy AND
i consider you one of those, guys like you're my,
guy you. Know So and LIKE i, said we started
off and we said this for on, podcasts but like an,
email a little you send me an, email and LIKE i,

(59:31):
SAID i was still getting into the LIKE i just
started doing a few podcasts feeling, good you, know and
you hit me up AND i was, like, hey let's do.
It and ever since that, podcast we created a friendship
and done a bunch of shows, together and you, know
to see your growth and what you've been able to,
do you, know in the in this scouting, world and

(59:53):
what you're doing with no ceilings and you're interviewing these
guys and that, Guys i'm, like that's my. Guy.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
MAN i feel LIKE i feel LIKE i feel like a,
father you, know, like, man you, know we, think you,
know it's really dope when you see people that you
work with have, success you, know like in a world
where there's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
So much hate and people are haters and people you
know too much, man much of. That you, know sometimes
you gotta be, Like i'm you, KNOW i see you
interviewing these guys Like Elijah martin and all these guys you,
know and and you're at this, Yarn you're at this,
turning you're at this, event And i'm, like that's hard, work.

(01:00:31):
Bro like AND i WAS i saw you like you
had just a couple of followers and and now you're
you're doing. This SO i just want to give you your, flowers,
brother because you've been you, know and And i'll, SAY
i love, you. Man you're, like you're you, know like
a brother to. Me. Brother SO i appreciate everything you've,
done you. Know, so LIKE i, SAID i always a
pleasure to talk with your.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Brother, yeah, man AND i know a lot OF i
still got a long way to go to get to
WHERE i want to, be, Right i'll Put i'm not
going to act Like i've, arrived because we we we've
still got a long way to go to get what we.
Want but even to, this even to this, point to
Where i'm at, now, man like a lot of a
lot of WHAT i have now is because Of off The,

(01:01:13):
Ball like AND i true hold hardly mean, that BECAUSE
i learned a lot just what networking is like with you,
guys like structuring, shows like creating outlines for, Shows LIKE
i have an outline here That i've That i've used
for the same Format chris that probably have on you
probably still have copies, Of LIKE i still run the Same,

(01:01:33):
Yeah LIKE I i run the same outlines That i've
had From off The, ball you, know like just off
The balls WHERE i met like the No ceilings folks,
too you know WHAT i? Mean and like off The,
ball having a cachet to pull some No ceilings folks
in at that time was pretty big. Deal. Man so
it's like you, know like we've we've interviewed like a

(01:01:54):
lot of big names that off the ball, too like
a lot of people who may not know what off
the ball. Is but w'd be shocked with some of
the people that have come, through you know WHAT i,
Mean like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
We interviewed some heavy hitters, too like no and like,
that and that's what and that's WHAT i tell people
all the. Time and everybody wants, to you, know how
DO i make? Money how DO i do? This HOW
i do?

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
That?

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Man you just got to put into. Work, MAN i
started with a phone and that was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
It a phone that was in a garage In, washington you,
know recording for, nobody you, know you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Know and you just gotta keep putting, up keep putting,
out and, eventually you, know you meet networking with the right.
People and LIKE i, said we didn't have when we
started off The ball, network we didn't Have, no we
didn't we didn't Have we weren't backed up by a major
this person we're getting this never. Know we just we
just worked and then we were able to keep working
and it's, like, oh these guys are actually. Good and
then we got our like to think we had our

(01:02:45):
podcast on a radio, station a big time radio, station
not just Any. Stephen we had it on the big
time radio station that you, know REMEMBER Lash. RADIO i
remember like we had our show on the, radio and
then that led to you, know getting this player on
there and then this, call and then it's like now
other people are, like, oh, oh we got to listen to,
them and then, boom and it leads to you, Know

(01:03:07):
i'm doing stuff With Knicks FAN, tv which is one
of the biggest, platform's biggest mixed platforms in the. World
it's not one hundred thousand. Subscribers you, know you're doing
stuff for new scenes maybe the most, reputable most you,
know most RESPECTED. Nba like people like love what you guys.
Do you know you guys are. Respected like every TIME
i hear a podcast that everyone's, like, yeah those guys

(01:03:29):
that know, CINEMA i respect with you guys are so
like just to, think you, know LIKE i, said we
always we want to do, more, Right like there's always
the room to, grows but like to get what we
got from where we. Started, Dude but that's teamwork. Too we.
Help like you, said there's a lot of. Negativity there's
a lot of selfishness in, this but how many times
do we text each, other email each other late and

(01:03:50):
yo do? This you? Know what do you feel about?
It and, like oh maybe we should work on? It
how do? You how do? You AND i learned from
you because you were VERY i love the way you
did your notes AND i learned From you've had a
note take and stuff you, know you, know and we
learned how, to you, know teach each other how to you,
know how to do a, show how to how to
format a show and. Stuff so.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
See. You my dad still talks to me about see You.
Sunday he's, like what's up with? That? MAN i love
when you see You. Sunday it's like he's still asking about, yeah,
yeah you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Know so people still asking me how you? Doing you?
Know LIKE i, SAID i always reference you whenever it
comes To. Haliburt like there's certain THINGS i remember, like oh,
Yeah steven got me on this guy like you, know
and it's just you, know that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Was YouTube scouting, too, Man like we didn't have. Nothing
i'm just like stuff we would have to try.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
To ask see IF i can get some clips from
NOTHING i heard. Of you. Know it would just we
were deep deep that we would have to find some.
Stuff but you, know it just shows, you like if you,
work your work your tail, off you can do some.
Things you know you could do, something and, uh you've.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
DONE i don't got the background that a lot of
other people do and no, ceilings, Dude LIKE i JUST
i love basketball on a, grinder Like i'm not smart
That i'll.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
WORK i always remember you when you did when you
would do the when you would do like the some
player profiles and you put them on the, website those
would be the biggest hits we would get on the.
Web i'd be, like, yo, dude you just did like
five hundred views on this one thing you did on
the on the website for, us you. Know and THEN
i guess it's just going and going and, going and
then you, know you, know and you're doing your. Thing

(01:05:21):
but it's just it's. Dope you. Know we've been able
to meet some cool. People And i'm glad you emailed
me that. Day, Bro i'm glad.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
You emailed man who knows what, happens you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Know that's WHY i told people that. Too, man everyone's
afraid to reach out. NOW i don't want to be
left on. RARE i don't want To, hey it's it
could be, scary but if you just got to keep,
going you never.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
Know you meet already know if you don't, ask you,
know exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Say that thing, Right if you don't, ask it's gonna
it's gonna be. No so you just ask and you
see what happens like and then you just never. Know
LIKE i Asked Mad badcock to come on the, pod
but WHEN i first thought the, boom he said yes
and then it went. On so But steven, man LIKE i,
said great show, men we got into a lot of.
Stuff we talked about the next fiftieth. Pick so My knicks,
fans you, know chime. In you, know we've got some

(01:06:08):
interesting prospects for that fiftieth. Pick we talked about three
of his. Sleepers we talked about the benefits from the
nil and guys coming back who benefited the. Most But,
steven my, men before we sign, off tell the people
where they can find you any products you got coming.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Up and, again, man thank you so much for having.
Me biggest thing y'all could do to support no. Ceilings right,
now if you haven't, already consider going and get The draft.
Guide it's fifteen bucks right. Now so if you can
afford a swing that that really helps what we. Do
what we do with what we do with our stuff
is it gets us to more events to give y'all more, content,

(01:06:45):
Right like we every everything that we do is to
just maximize how much more content we can give. Back
Right and one of the biggest kind of like cornerstones
for Backing No ceilings is our draft. Guide we have
a lot of people have shared, it so if you've
already got it for like seriously from the bottom of
all of our, hearts like we, are we're genuinely like

(01:07:06):
blown away from the amount of support that we've gotten
on our guide this. Year within day, one we blew
out all of our last year, selves, Right so big
year for. Us but if you want to support No,
ceilings that's how you do. That No CEILINGS nba dot
com where you can get free, content like ninety percent
of what we do is. Free we do have some plus,
content so if you want to be a No Ceiling plus,

(01:07:26):
member you get to be a part of the discord
where you just hand Out.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
I'm a part of the. Discord it's a do you
get a lot of.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
INFORMATION i appreciate, that but you also get additional kind
of paid content on the site. Too you get a
nice little discount for our draft guide when it does.
Drop so we try to give as much love to
our No ceilings universe at all. Possible if you're interested
in just following little old, me you can do. That

(01:07:52):
twitter is Where i'm most active at steven G. Hoops
But Chris man, AGAIN i love, you bro, Seriously like
If i'm president of The United, STATES i don't. Care,
Right like you asked me to come beyond a, show
LIKE i will come and be on a, Show SO
i will always be here for, You, Bro.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
MAN i appreciate. It, Man LIKE i, said you're doing tremendous.
Work you, Know i'm proud of your. Brother everything you're,
doing you know, SAID i, said it's worth all the.
STUFF i, Know, ceilings it's worth. It i'm you, know in.
It we also live in a world where the subscription
everything is subscription, based, right and you're trying to cost
court that's the one. One i'm, like, NAH i don't

(01:08:30):
care IF i that's my last ten. Doc take. It
it's worth it because you get so much. Information AND i,
said they it doesn't get overly. Complicated they simplify and
in the aesthetics of. It you're gonna look at it
and you be like. This you, KNOW i remember having
people who aren't even big and they're, like, oh that
that looks. Cool that just looks like a comic book.
Style and Except Corey's.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Corey And tyler, BOTH i can't take any credit for
the way anything. Looks like if you read something that you,
LIKED i might have had something to do with. It
you like the way things, look that's all, Cool and
that's all a rucker on our steal, Man and, they
they And nick And austin are our, editors like they
that was a labor of love for those four in, particular,
man so a lot of credit goes to, Them but

(01:09:12):
the whole team, wrote, like, shoot three hundred some on
pages of content for, y'all and it's all broken up
in magazine, Format like it took a lot of, work,
Man but we're proud of what we. Do and, again
like the paywall, Stuff, yeah we acknowledge that it, Exists
like we don't run from, it like but we hate,
it but we try seriously literally everything that we. Can

(01:09:33):
like it funds like WHEN i go To Port, smith
LIKE i get to stay at a place.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
IMPORTANCE i don't think people mind at. All and if it's,
good stop you're getting. It for. Me it's it's everyone
wants value for their, money right and not just saying,
that but you guys give way like tremendous value for
what you. Know you guys give so to, ME i
told you we're in a world of cost co. Again

(01:10:00):
you're trying to, like oh, MAN i Got, NETFLIX, hbo
this and that and, that you, Know, cable you, know
And i'm like, That i'm cool. WITH i don't mind that.
Now i'm never gonna. Cancel that's that's. Fine so to,
me that shows how much great work you guys do
in great, effort and you guys build a great. Team
so continue the great, Work. Stephen LIKE i, said my
brother appreciate you. Man make sure to follow me At

(01:10:23):
off The. Ballpod make sure to like subscribe on the YouTube.
Channel make sure to make sure to Follow. Steven all
his links will be below in the. Description make sure
to follow everyone At New. Ceilings and tomorrow we're gonna
Have James barlow on the. Pod we're gonna get into
more vast, stuff you, know his first time on the.

(01:10:44):
Pod So i'm excited to get him on and he's
another great, mind.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
One of the. BEST i love the work that The barlows.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Do Man barlow the best brother scouts and in the.
Business you, KNOW i don't know any other brothers, out
but if you, Are i'm. Sorry that's the best duo
brother duo in the. Business but on that, note, guys be,
well be, safe take, care be south.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
Much love you

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