The State of the Chicago Bulls ft Morris Bankston

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Start spreading the new, new, new new. We interrupt our
program to bring you this important message, New York. I
love you and love you. Oh it's trying to get

(00:37):
open the fires away. It's over the way at the
cover dollar the curry back, take a dollar up, the
lay up. Oh fuck by James Lebrian. James with a rejection,
just puts up the prase long go real facks back
out to all his retired man. What's going on? People?

(01:03):
Welcome back to another episode of the Off the Ball
Podcast with me your host Chris Ler, brun Andria. Brought
to you by Seki Seek geting them one place for
all your ticket needs you promo called OTB Ball for
twenty dollars off your first purchase at seat dot. We
got a good one for you to get. Guys, today
we're gonna be talking about all things Chicago bulls with

(01:25):
my guy Morris. Morris Brother, what's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Man, I'm good man, thank you for having me on.
I'm excited to get on the pod. There's Ben Wasson's
actually talked specifically bulls. I'm excited to share my thoughts,
my my rants, whatever. I have many things about the bulls.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
There's a lot to go with with the Chicago Bulls.
You know, it's you know, I've you know, being a
Knicks fan, and I know why it feels that, like
when you have like a ravid base and there's not
a lot of w's happening, you know. So we'll get
into that with the Chicago Bulls. Know, obviously it wasn't
a great season for the Chicago bull right they did

(02:03):
make the playing there were some good things to look
forward to. All overall and disappointing and you know going
into the playing and not advancing to the playoffs. So overalls,
what's just the what's just the feeling right now around
Bulls Nation? Like what do you feeling when when you
talk to people about the Bulls, Like what is their
state of mind right now?

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, that's a great question because I think if you're
an outside to Chicago Bulls it might be a bit odd,
But like inside Bulls Nation, I think it's really been.
It's kind of like true lanes of Bulls fandom right now.
I think this Bulls fans who are more than willing

(02:46):
to embrace different levels of optimism about the franchise, whether
it be because of mos Bouzelis you know, the off
season trade from the twenty twenty four offseason that brought
in Josh Skitty, just general mantra that the front office
likes to promote of oh, we've become a younger team.
People are optimistic about those sort of things. And then

(03:08):
I think there's also another lane of Bulls fans where
you know, they're just looking honestly at the end result,
and I probably am more on the end result side
of it, where it's like we've had a new front
office regime now going into the sixth season, we've only
had one playoff series, we've only had one playoff win.
It's just constantly living it's playing thing, and it's like

(03:31):
I just I don't see what this is accomplishment. I'm
probably more like nihilistic or like pessimistic or whatever, where
it's it's like I to feel like we're spinning our wheels.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, yeah, And that's probably the frustrating part right of everything,
is the kind of feel like you know, it's playing
or being an eight seed that feels like that's always,
you know, always the way, and it's like, okay, like
how do we get out this way? You know, we
don't want to know that gets cool, like especially when

(04:04):
you've struggled and it's cool and like said, I'm a
Knicks fan, so I know how this feels like we
didn't make the playoffs for so many years or we
sixty lost weight, but seasons and it's like, okay, we
make the playoffs, then we go advance another round, and
we advance another round. It's like and then you have
people say, well, you should be happy. I was like, yeah,
we are. It's better than it was five years ago.
But you know there's levels tod like you don't want

(04:26):
to just be cool. We're just how we made the playoffs,
we made to the conference finals. You know, we may
we want to the end goal is to like every
fan base, they want to see a championship. Yeah, it's
like how do we get there? Like it's cool that
we're okay where we're here and we're it looks like
we're improving, but how do we get to that next step?

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (04:45):
I mean, honestly, improvement would be the starting points for
bulice fans because it's been this like specifically like the
last three seasons of this like current regime, fron Office regime,
it's been this Middland sort of like like forty ish
win team playing for the nineteen game. It's like and
they've changed, it's modest change to the roster, but it's

(05:07):
still like the same thing. And even like after you
trade DeMar DeRozan Zach Lavine, this is still what you are.
I think, like at least I'll just speak specifically for
myself as a Bulls fan, that's a frustrating thing. It's
like it just seems like you don't know what the
Bulls are doing, Like they're just heading to the exact
same destination every single season right now.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, So like I said that, that's it's kind of
like it's being in purgatory because you know how they say,
like you don't want to be you know, you either
want to be at the top or you want to
be at the bottom. You never want to be in
the middle, you know, because you know it's it's just
like you're stuck because you don't know you know what
direction to go to, you know, So that that seems due.
But obviously you know you mentioned the trade for Josh

(05:51):
Giddy and how you know he ended the season playing
I mean he played lights out hoop and then I
always refer back to that game against the Lakers, like
that felt like a playoff game. Yeah, like that game
where he the buzzer beater and the comeback and like
that felt like, Okay, it's like this, this is what
we want. We know we want this, and like the

(06:15):
obviously you know, the cruise and obviously, okay, see wins
a championship and that's all great. But you know, with Giddy,
like I always liked them, I always felt like he
was kind of he didn't he didn't fit with ok Obviously,
the you know, Shade's emergence is going to you know,
you're not gonna have the ball as much as you
really want. And he's, you know, his off ball stuff
is it's solid, but he's more of an on ball player.

(06:37):
So what did you feel about when you when you
heard about the trade for Giddy? Were you were you
on you know? Did you were you one of those
people that were like, okay, like, you know, I think
it's more to his game than what we saw, or
were you, you know, on the on the other side
of it, Like, what was your thoughts when you first
heard about the Giddy trade.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, to be completely honest, like, I was very skeptical
about what to expect from Giddy, but that wasn't immediate reaction.
The media reaction was pretty much like white hot rage
at the front office for trading Alex Cruseller straight for
Josh Kinney when Alex Cruise see, like, there have been
to a lot of debates over this past season, specifically

(07:14):
within bull fan fandom about like, you know, who is out?

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Who is Alex Cruso, what is he worth?

Speaker 2 (07:21):
It's kind of a litment sense honestly, for like how
people choose to digest basketball, in my opinion, because if
you are the kind of person whereas like your whole
world view about NBA basketball is like what do you
see in the box score, you will probably quickly dismiss
Alex Caruso and you just think of him as like
a role player. I'm not that kind of person he
thinks that way, because like I value defense, and I

(07:44):
you know, to me, Alex Caruso is a top fifteen
NBA defender And to trade Alex Crusoe straight up with
no draft capitol return for a you know, yes, young player,
but player also who like very visibly struggled in the
NBA playoffs around really solid roster, like there was leverage

(08:08):
to be had there to at least make it, I think,
a more equitable trade and kind of beyond the trade.
But I'm just like at the moment, I was like
really mad at what the Bulls did because I thought
they got I just thought they did a bad deal.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
And regardless of how Josh.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Getty's career will pan out, I still feel that way.
I'm gonna feel that way forever, Like that was just
a fundamentally bad negotiation and bad like tunnel vision deal,
whereas like even if you like Josh Giddy, get something
that like sweetened the deal, right, because things go wrong
or go sideways all the time in the NBA, and

(08:41):
they've unfortunately gone sideways for this front office regime where
like you know, fact like rewind like three seasons ahead backwards, right,
they go and get Lonzo Ball. They literally tampered for him,
and then what happens. You get thirty five games of
brilliant basketball. But then Lonzo Ball's not there for like
two and a half seasons, three seasons and they had

(09:03):
no plan b Like, you just can't do these HMP
first into sliding in the second base thing and you
don't have a backup plan and that's like, really my
biggest concern with Giddy right now more than his play,
because you know the reports. I'm sure we'll talk more
about the whole RFA experience right now with him. Like
there's a possibility perhaps where it's like, if it if

(09:25):
it really gets acrimonious between the pulls a Giddy, like,
you may lose Giddy for nothing.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
It's quite possible, right, So it's just I wasn't. I
wasn't a fan of the deal.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
I think throughout the season I grew to appreciate some
of the positives of Giddy. I think what I found
where like, really I don't view him as a point
guard to be perfectly blunt, like, I think he's more
effective as like a secondary ball and what I like
about him If he like really continues to hone in
on this and focus on this, I think it's uh,

(09:59):
he can't. He can grow and develop into like a
very like formidable downhill threat where and he started showing
that and sort that last late season run he had
where it's like when he became more willing to instead
be on ball, move the ball, but then like give
himself going to the rim, he becomes a I think

(10:20):
much more of an advantage creator than anything he'll ever
do drum shooting, even if he does become like an average,
like sustained three point shooter. I like the I like
the possibilities more of him, like attacking the rim, coming off,
like curling off a screen, or something like just getting
downhill because there was six to eight and I mean
he's working on getting stronger, and like those are things

(10:40):
where it's like that helps him get to the rim,
that helps the whole team just like have more possibilities
offensively versus him continuing to like just be like primarily
on ball because I don't think defenses are going to
respect that for a full a two game season.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
No, Yeah, And that is the stuff that we've seen
him progressively get better is just getting to his spots
because uh and you've seeing it, like because you see
a lot of comps, like Igor Denham gets a lot
of Giddy comps, And I'm like, the one thing that
he needs to work on is being able to get
strong enough to get to his spots, you know. And
it seems like Giddy has definitely got better, especially you
know that second half of the season, like he really

(11:18):
looked like a different player, like I felt like he
was averaging a triple double, you know so, and like
I said, like you mentioned before, he's a restricted for
agent and restricted perraigency is more. It's nasty right now.
You know, it's probably the worst year probably in a
long maybe ever to be a restrictive for agent. As
we've seen. Cam Thomas is not you know, he's not

(11:41):
getting any you know, he's getting numbers that you know,
nowhere near what he probably thought. You know. So, what's
what's your take on the restrictive for agent process for
Josh Giddy right now? Should they to extend him or
you know what? What's going on with that?

Speaker 2 (11:56):
I think, well, let me do like I will do
a quick plug from my platform.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
There's per possession.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
We do a weekly newsletter and actually our weekly newsletter
dropped this morning. It actually is delving into the just
contextualizing the entire restricted free agency market right now, and
certainly Giddys you know, prominent player kind of like in
the in the snare of that, I think it's nothing
short of like a market correction basically, or like even

(12:26):
more bleak is is a market recession for anybody, any
player that thought they were going to go get you know,
get their back and restricted free agency. The money is
just not there, and you know, there's an obvious reason
of it being that team. There are no cass space
teams and like there's nominally a cast space team in
the Brooklyn Nets and in Utah Jazz. But from what
I can tell, what most people can tell, they've already

(12:48):
made their decisions about what what they're doing with the
off season. I actually thought the Nets, like people like
just assume the Nets we're gonna deal all those first
round picks.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
I just kind of have feeling.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
I had good feeling, like, oh, they might actually select
off five of those dudes, And like, is it necessarily
a bad thing to go into the season given where
they are clearly like rebuilding, they're prioritizing development. Why not
just stack up five rookie scale contracts and just go
with that?

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Right, Like they and this and that regime might not
be there next year to see, you know, whatever happens
for next season. So it's like, you know what, let's
just go. Let's hope that maybe one or two of
these guys pop and we can keep our jobs because
or else we're not going to be here. So why
do we care?

Speaker 2 (13:31):
You know, Yeah, So, I mean I think I think
that was red that was that was a very prominent
red flag for like any restrict free agency. And ironically
Cam Thomas probably should saw that is kind of like
the signal like, oh, this negotiation isn't going to go
the way I want. So I don't think this is
the money is just not there in that restricted free
agency market. And then one of the things I touched

(13:52):
on in the newsletter is that where the big money
for Josh Gitty's draft class where it went. It really
is guys were extended with their with their original team,
and that's sort of I really think Josh Getty myce
between Josh getting his representation, depending on how that deal
goes with the Bulls, they may be looking at themselves

(14:14):
and like retrospectively looking at it like.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Oh, maybe we shouldn't.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
And it was reported like you know, Giddy he had
more or less asked for a trade request when Sam
Prescy told him like, hey, for the four to twenty
five season, we're gonna bring off the bench man, and
it's it's a tough thing. I can't see it from
Giddy's perspective. But also I think you look at a
benchmark where like Jalen Green, he got extended by Houston Rockets, right,

(14:41):
and he got thirty five million dollars per year contract,
but like wasn't necessarily like the most featured guy, and
it seemed like he at least had like between him
and his representation. Jane Green had at least a good
enough repport with the front office where he just got
the money at least, and it's a tradable enough deal,
where like Boom, you know, had bad playoff, but you

(15:02):
know he's gonna go figure out in Phoenix. Now, Like
maybe that should have been to play more for Giddy
than trying to like force his way out because he's
in between a Rock and Hart place. As far as
like this restricted free agency, the reports have been that,
you know, even actually.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Before restricted free agency.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Like at the beginning of training camp last season, the
smoke already started coming out that Giddy's camp was looking
for a thirty million dollars a year deal five years,
like looking for something on power Jalen Sugs Well, I
would count Like how it contrasts that, right is, like
Giddy had statistical production, but Jay Suggs is an All
league defender.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, and the.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
And the and again the guys in this draft class
is up for you know, restricted free agency, the ones
who didn't even the ones who got extended and getting
like those big multi year deals. They're all the guys
who ended up getting some level of a like NBA
level war accolade. Yeah, All Stars, all NBA All Defense

(16:03):
and it's k It's Sugs. Do to think who else
the other NBA guy, Kate Sugs mobiley obviously mobile, All
NBA All Star and Defensive Player of the Year, like
and Scottie Barnes, right he was, Yeah, and he got
alsar game out of it. Those are the guys that

(16:24):
are getting the multi year deals of like you know,
thirty plus and then there's like a second then there's
like this middle class tier after that, where like on
the high end is Franz Wagner and again Jalen Green.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
They got those deals.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
But you could the way I rationalize it, I think
they have strong enough statistical production on some category where
like they're getting that and maybe that's the case that
Giddy's camp is trying to make, like hey, look, I'm
nearly averaged a triple double. But the problem is, like
it's nearly triple double in only like twenty to thirty

(16:59):
games of the season.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Do it for a whole season.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
You're consistency yet to where you should command that number.
And then plus even with Jalen Green, he got thirty
five a year, but it's a three year deal, right, Like,
nobody's gonna give you these five year deals for thirty
plus a year because of again cap space, CBA, the
tront officers are just being like very judicious about how

(17:22):
they want to allocate the cap now.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Mm hmm. Yeah, that second Apron has teams operating completely
different than what we saw just a few years ago. Yeah,
like the landscape of the league. It's it's crazy how
much it's really changed, you know, and has teams really pressing,
you know, I see it with the Knicks, like we're
really pressed. We're in a second apron.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
You know.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
It's like we gotta we got to figure out how
to you know, who's going to be here, who to expend,
you know, when to extend, you know, and especially when
you're in a win now mode, you know, especially with
the Knicks, like you really got to make sure you
find the right pieces because if you mess up, it
could be really it could be real, real bad. You know,

(18:04):
so what do you eventually happens with Giddy? Well, what
do you what do you what do you think is
they end result?

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, I think there's really only two options, right, because
it's to me becoming abundantly clear that officer he's not
coming in Josh Getty's way. And that's been reports to
the effect of like no teams have been quiet, which
was about Josh Gitty, whereas you know, you contrast a
least Jonathan Kminga, They're like what Zacker mail? And then
I think it might be the Suns, Like there are

(18:29):
two teams like with offers on the table for Jonathan Kamnia.
None of that's happened for Josh Giinty, and so Camp
wants that thirty million. There's also have been reports that
Josh Gitty, the most of the Chicagos are willing to
offer is twenty million a year and potentially like four years.
I think the way it needs to work out, I mean,

(18:50):
if the Bulls aren't going to go to thirty million number,
which I frankly agree with, I just don't see a
necessity for why the Bulls will even go to that number.
If there's a market therefore, where the bulls on their side,
probably what they have to start becoming more open minded
about is that you're not gonna get Josh Getty on
four plus years at this point, Like you're gonna have
to come up with a number that you like, money,

(19:13):
number that you guys can both live with for the
next three years. I think that's that's really the best
win win situation for this type of negotiation at this point.
Or Josh Getty plays on his eleven million dollar qualifying offer,
I you know, if Josh Getty's agent, I would be like, look, man,
we're not gonna get this in this round, Like this
is the best.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
Let's get three years.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
And if it's sixty million dollars for three years, we
get the playofption kind of like to Paul out, dude, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
And you're still young where you could still you know,
in those two years, you could still what is he
twenty three, twenty.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Twenty two, twenty three year?

Speaker 2 (19:48):
And I think there's a strong fine education for why
he should do that, right, like play on a three
for sixty deal, because the way that this mark is
now structured for free agents, you're not getting that big
money man, unless you're gonna go to an All Star
Game or you're gonna get All NBA or somehow you
put the point where it's like you're an All NBA defender,
that's the path, or it's like you really got to

(20:10):
do like some crazy yolkice level leap in your statistics.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
It's gotta be one to Oh. So it's like picking
wichever one works for you.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
But like, just get yourself in a position where you
can really bull out and you actually legitimate go push
for like a legitimate max contract if you get one
of these accolades.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, and like you mentioned, for what he did the
end the season was good, but it was such a
small sample size that it's like, Okay, we appreciate that,
but we need to see that throughout a full eighty
two and we need to see that consistency. More So,
if you do this again and you're averaging damn near
a triple double and you're an All Star and you're doing,

(20:50):
like you said, all the accolade stuff, then you know,
then we can we could we buy in to you
long term?

Speaker 3 (20:58):
You know.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
So we got to see that. And because I think
it's always tricky when guys are coming like on you know,
you know, on the contract years. You know, you see
this a lot in baseball, right you see, guys have
good you know years before they go they get their
bag and then you know, we see So I think
teams are just like we've let's let's let's rock it

(21:21):
out one more year, you know, for another full year
in the system. Let's see how we go to see
what some of the new pieces we brought it, you know,
see bezealous, you know, year or two you know, saying it,
and we'll talk about the young guys in a bit,
you know. Uh so let's just see one more time
and then we could talk.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
And I think that's yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
I think I think, you know, giving in his representation,
I think they just need to come to come to
grips with market stacked against them for for what goal
they started the season off. They wanted five years, thirty
million market. There's no market for you're not getting that.
And I think, like if you, if you're open minded,
you look at from sample like the way I laid

(22:01):
it out again in our Nervous Person Possession weekly newsletter,
Like if you just look at holistically as far as
what the sort of different tiers of this this free
agency market is for the restricted level guys.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
There's elite tier. Those are the all in, all star
kind of guys.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
There's like an upper middle class of again like franz
Or or Suggs, whereas like, I mean that Sugs, but
Jalen Green where and I'll caveat like Jalen Green isn't
necessarily like across the board solid statistically, but the dude
is between a game score like like he like and
you like, I suppose like that's how he probably is

(22:39):
able to get himself into that thirty five number. Is like,
you know, most like scoring is still gonna match to
a degree where like there's some some uh you know,
upside opportunity. I would suspect that's what the Phinx sons
are going to bet on. And frankly, they don't have
a lot of options anyway, so all upside that he
did exactly at this.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Point, they just try to throw darts and see what
you know, well, it's gonna hit because they they that's
a whole nother show what the Suns are doing. Many
they they they definitely messed.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, but I think like Giddy, I mean, he's solidly
like in the middle, like in the middle of class
of his class, right, because he has some solid offensive
production for sure, there's no question about that, but he
is a defensive liability still, and so it's like he
has to shore himself up for a consistent, full, a
two game season where he gets to the money he wants.
At this point, I think he's gonna get something that

(23:32):
certainly is not like Franz He's or I should I
should say I think the ideal number he should be
getting is definitely not Franz Wagner Jalen Green numbers, but
something better than frankly what Cam Thomas or Quinton Grinds
will get.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Whereas like, yeah, the Nets they offer.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Two for fourteen million, but yeah, he's getting a two
year mL LEA yeah, uh in total, Like but like, hey,
I can't I can't understand that too, because if you
look at Cam Thomas's numbers, certainly not consistent score He's not.
I mean, you know, if I compare Jalen Green to
Cam Thomas, you're gonna get twenty game from Jalen Green

(24:09):
for the most part. Like he didn't show it in
the playoffs obviously, but I'm sure a regular season like
he's gonna find his way to get his numbers, and
so that's probably like, well, cam Thomas has to be
able to demonstrate for the next season or two to
being on how he decides to resolve his thing. Is that,
like you just have to demonstrate that you're gonna be consistent.
I think that's what front offices want. And this is

(24:31):
weird kind of like evolving almost like NFL like salary
cap environment we're in now.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, it's kind of like I tweet this out, like
cam Thomas getting treated like a like a wide receiver.
It's like we need him, but when we have to
pay them, we don't want to pay them. You know
how how many receivers are like you know, they're goold
and then when it's time to pay the like.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
No, we gotta go different directions.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
What I mean, you know, like mean Lillard, it was
a cap casualty like that's where we are now.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
It's crazy, Mars.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
The NBA is so much different, just like I mentioned,
it's so much like we're getting seventy million dollar guys
getting waived and extended, you know, for Brad's getting you know,
and like and now you're learning more like oh, man,
you can wave stretch over five years and add a
year depending on the year that they had, two years,
depending on you know, how many years left on the car.

(25:29):
I was like, whoa, Like it's just crazy, like the
landscape and like, like you said, a guy like Cam Thomas,
like he could just say, oh, average twenty five a game.
But then it's like, well, you don't do anything else.
You're not efficient, you're not playmaker, you don't play defense.
Like ooh yeah, man, that's the name of the game
is scoring. But there's other aspects. And I think that's
what Ginty's doing too. It's like, you know, Jalen Sugg

(25:51):
get a lot of his guys in his class getting paid,
but you know they're super elite at least one thing.
And where Josh is like, Okay, if you're not going
to be you're a piss poor defender. You know you
gotta at least be a twenty. You better be James
Harden esque on offense. And he's not that. You know,
that's the thing. He's a good playmaker and when there's
times where he could take over with his passing and stuff.

(26:13):
But if you're not going to be an elite level scorer.
That's why we're kind of at this position where we're
at now, because if he was the scorer and the
defense was there, he would have got his money at
the end of playmaking too, he would have probably got paid.
But you know, you're not a good defender and you're
not a James Harden level scorer. We're gonna be in
this predicament.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
And also the other thing about Josh Katy too is
like he has to clamp his turnovers, Like you can't
be on ball and just be like a turnover man.
Or it's just like I get it on a degree
where he's like he's willing to like.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
Be like aggressive in his passing, but like that stuff
is going.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
To get old, and like, you know, he could potentially
be like a twenty five game of score if he
wasn't turning the ball over so much, like or at
least get like, yeah, he could average double digit assist.
So it's like he's got you know, to your point,
this gotta be something that Josh Giddy's locking in and
getting better in this offseason right now, so that when

(27:07):
he gets to October, starting with his first preseason game,
like nobody's gonna give him me grace or patient to
wait till like, oh look, Josh giddy And in February
started falling like no, it's like you want that money,
you want be that dude, like it starts first game
of preseason.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
HM. And you got to show the leadership too, you know, guys,
you got industry. If you're gonna have the ball in
your hand, you got to be the leader. And they
doesn't have those qualities. So there there's especially when you're investing.
These teams are investing forty fifty million dollars, man, you
need to have the whole package. Like it's just and
I think, like I said, this is also a horrible
time to be afraid. I you know, it's crazy. I

(27:46):
was just who was I just listened. I forgot what
pot I was listening to. And they were talking about
like brandon Ingram and they talked about his agents like
he read them, He read the he read the room.
He was like, we can't let him go to free
agency because he ain't gonna get nothing. So we need
to get him extended now, even if it's for a
lesser number, get him extended now, because if he goes
to the market, he's going to not like what he

(28:08):
what he gets offered. So like we might be in
that place and and and uh in basketball where we
might see that happen. Like I agents are gonna be
straight up like, hey, you're not like unless you are
s g A, you are Joker, you are Giannis, you
are at that level. You'll get your money no matter what. Yeah,

(28:29):
but like you mentioned the tiers below that is it's
gonna be tough, Like it's gonna be tough for those guys,
those brand and those level players who are good players
but not tier one or even tier twos. Those guys
are gonna trouble on the market.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Big the big money for NBA players is in the
extension market. Now, it's not in the free ags market,
even for the understricted free agents too.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
On this point, I may.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Understricted this year. Really, you know, Turner got paid, you know,
I mean that's it's not like.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
A modest but I mean in terms of like a
top fifteen NBA player moving in the market, that doesn't happen.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
The last one was KD going to the nets.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Like that's the thing, Like it doesn't feel like it's
been that long, but it really has, because like when
I look through all of the freation transactions of the
last like I just started working backwards, like I had
to go all the way back to KD going to
the nets like a big all NBA top tier player
moving free agency, and then from restrict to free agency
like all star tier. There's only been two players that

(29:34):
actually even been in a position where they went to
the RFA period where like they didn't get the extension done.
It's brandon Ingram concidentally, and then Maxie Tyres Maxie last offseason.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, it's Mars. It's it's a different it's a different time,
it's a different like you said, just think about it.
You know when we you know, summer sixteen with KD,
you know ten, like we used to get like we're
tracking flights and listen, like you know, with the craziness
of all those free but we're really like, where's he going?

(30:08):
Like I remember with Lebron in twenty ten, like, oh,
he's in New York. He went to the restaurant, like,
oh God, he's coming in. Then it's like no, he's
actually he bought a capana And I was like, that's
the first time I heard of a Cabana, you know
in Miami. Then it's like it's just crazy. But now
it's just like, you know, you're not we're not going
to get that that. Guys are going to get their
extensions and then they'll acts out. That's the new wave

(30:30):
of getting guys. Now, you know, no one's going to
pass up on getting seventy million dollars per year that
SGA extension. Nobody's passing up on that now, And I'm
why would I I can't blame you. I can't blame
someone for passing up seventy five million dollars.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
You know, Yeah it used to be I mean what
used to be a seller's market or no. I guess
like in this scenario, like you know, the players trying
to get their mind so they're trying to buy, Like
is the seller's market now for free agent whereas like
for officers have all the leverage and all the control.
So it's just yeah, like I would say, honestly, uh

(31:07):
like not to have the best interest in the NBA
players or the agency representation.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
But I think any.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Agient is telling like their clients, oh, let's let's wait
until we go get let's wait until free agency will
go get that way to the point did you.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Just point out right?

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Because what Brandon Inger is a clutch guy also, so
it's like you know, savvy agents, I would imagine understand
where the money is moving, where the money is at,
and that's that's that was super shrewd to get, you know,
get Ingram up to the raptors knowing that like the
market isn't going to pan out for you know how

(31:42):
Brandon Ingans is perceived at this stage of his career
where it's like you know, mid range score where like
those are unfortunately slurs for people.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
It really is though right, you know, may bring score,
Oh man, you ain't getting you ain't getting paid, bro,
you ain't getting paid bro. Like it's just not And
you saw what derozen when he was here, like and
it's crazy because it's like there is a there is
there is a world of people who appreciate that. But
you know, the people that you need to know that,
the people that you want to appreciate it are the

(32:14):
ones paying you, and they're not. They're like, nah, we
don't get that.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
You'll be honest, I loved every second tomorrow playing for
the Bulls because even though the end result of those seasons. Yeah,
there's still mid unfortunately frustrating here there is a skill
and crafted Like if you watch enough Damar DeRozan playing
and you truly love basketball, I just don't see how
you don't appreciate what he brings the game because it's

(32:38):
beautiful basketball. And again, I mean that's that's if your
open mind about like what mid range shooting is where
it can be certainly, yeah for space when we talk
about all that, But at the end of the day,
like see tomorrow, just like effortlessly find his way to
his spots and a lot just like it was just
like wizard dream watching him playing Bulls uniform. I mean,

(33:01):
I don't think anybody expected him to have like uh uh,
like an insurgent MVP run. But that first season was
was was awesome.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
I I always say this, when you guys got Lonzo,
you got the mar and you had that run right
before Lonzo gets hurt. You guys were like a top.
It looked like, okay, the Bulls. I was like, that
was one of my teams. I was like, okay, the
Bulls are they got something here? Lonzo. I was a
b Lonzo guy. I felt like this is the perfect fit.
For you guys, I wanted him in New York. That

(33:32):
was the one I was. I wanted we won't do
getting I think Evan forty, so we won the direction.
So so I remember just saying, Okay, the bulls that
got and then you went off to a tremendous start
playing good ball. That Lonzo's need just it derailed everything,
you know, and it was that was that the moment
where everything kind of just shifted for you guys.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Absolutely, yeah, definitely retrospect. I mean that was I mean,
it was the death nail in the coffin. And it's
only thirty five games into the whole experiment. It was
fun thirty It's a good experiment. And it's like, I'll
never dis credited the front office for like their intent
and that roster construction design they went with because it
had merit to it. I think where I where where

(34:19):
I have soured on our tourist current shows in his
whole front office regime, is that it's become abundantly clear
to me that they never have played after that was
the only plan they had, and they really haven't demonstrated
plan since then.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
That's a shame that that's a shame, like that you
don't have listen as a GM. I know GM's being
hard and you go in on your Plan A and
plan as work and like you know, you strapped the leap,
but you always need to have contingencies, like you always
need to have plans because you just don't ever know,
like a guy could get hurt, like how that happens
all the time, and then like just can't be you know,

(34:54):
you know they have your ass out. You know you
got you know, you gotta have plans be the case.
And when you don't have that, then it sets you back.
And you obviously you've seen it like it's been. It's
been tough, and I always feel for you because you
guys have obviously the bulls. You know what we know
what the bulls, you know the lore of being the
Chicago bull that you know what happened in the nine

(35:17):
you had. You had a guy named Michael. I think
I don't know if he ever panned out, but I
heard he was pretty good. You know, he cost my
team a couple. He seemed to like massive square garden.
I remember he liked a little bitter. I already loved
being you know, did you ever hear about the rumor
about him almost becoming a nick.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
I vaguely remember that.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
I don't obviously, you know, towards the end, you know,
him and Jerry Krafts were button heads and Carimonia and
he wanted to get paid, and there was a rumor
that he was very close to becoming a nick. And
I wish I never heard about that because now it
just division of him and Patrick Ewing, you know, but
that wasn't that was like, that was like a Cardinals saying,

(36:02):
you don't do that. You don't leabe your team. You
rock with your team. But man, now I'm like, and
I'm like, what could have been him in New York?

Speaker 3 (36:11):
You know, that would have been wild.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, that would have been wild, you know for sure.
But obviously, and this is where I was going for.
You know, the fan base is rabbit, you guys, constant
sell us. It always feels like it's it's packed out
there in Chicago. So but the results you haven't seen
the results, but there feels like you got some good,
solid young pieces, you know, up and come. Obviously, you know,

(36:36):
drafted Buzzellis last year and he sold good signs. Oh rookie,
you know, he he really showed and he was someone
that at one point was projected to be the number
one pick. Obviously it was a weaker draft, so some
people actually looked at it. I was like, Okay, in
a week draft, why wasn't he number one? So you
were trying to figure out why. But you know, G
League stuff was weird. You know, obviously it's no longer

(36:57):
a thing the G League at night. It's that they
got it. Uh, it's no longer around. So you know,
weird situation with that. But obviously he shows some really
good things. And then the drafting of Noah, the same
guy I know he got. I know he's known for
the the Unfortunate Unfortunate poster and that was a crazy
visual though. I was like, and then you're like, wait,

(37:20):
he actually bowled out though, because I didn't get to
watch it, that's what it was crazy.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
But because I watched the game right, and it's like.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
In real time, I didn't like as a poster, I'm like, oh,
that's kind of nasty, that's messed up, but like I
didn't like.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
I think, like most people, you didn't see the angle.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Of it until after, like they got that shot on
on the socials. Then you realize like, oh, this is horrible,
this might be an all time he's bad, but he was. Yeah,
he was hooping in the game, And like I didn't
think of much about the poster until like I started
seeing the picture like everybody else, and I'm like, oh,
he I just hope he's got good mindset about this
because he he the roasting is not about to stop anytime.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
So yeah, yeah, and you know how social media. But
then you're like, oh, he actually really had a really
good game, and there's a lot of you know, hype
and potential with him. But let's go to Mozella's first. Yeah,
you know, how did how did you feel about his
rookie season, because, like I said, all rookie team did
a lot of really good stuff. Obviously going to go

(38:18):
through the ups and downs being a rookie, but how
did you feel and what's the what's the temperature with him?
As far as with Bulls fans, how they feel like
about him and his his potential.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah, I think again a lot of these Bulls fan them.
There's like a spectrum of things, and it's like I think,
at the very bare minimum, everybody's like high on mys,
Like everybody's excited about what Mas his second season is
going to be. The Bulls have this habit also just
like constantly putting guys on the roster who are like

(38:49):
either from Chicago or somewhere around Chicago or have Illinois connections.
So there's some of that hometown loved it Mos gets
for sure from Bulls fans. Yeah, I think most people
are pretty high. And it's like sort of a spectrum
of like reasonably like optimistic to like, you know, probably
some Bulls fans who think Males is about to become

(39:11):
like an All NBA like all.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Timer, uh within the next season or two.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Like I'm I'm like my my whole thing about Males,
And actually I've been high on Mys since his summer
his first Summer League last year. I watch all this
Summer League games last year, and the thing that automatically
popped out to me from the very first time I
watched Males in any kind of NBA competition once he
got the Summer League was his defense, Pops, And that's
what That's what to me is that that gives me hope,

(39:39):
that gives me excitement and optimism about like Mas Bouzella's
long term is that it's clear to me that he
has defensive instincts and that like, I don't know if
you can necessarily teach what he does defensively, especially like
rotating off the weak side his Like to me, he's
already the best room protector on the roster, like he
became the best n protector once he's are like getting

(40:00):
regular minutes from Billy Donovan. So I think that's that's
an incredibly important foundation because I think the thing that
honestly frustrates me the most covering Bulls being a Bulls
fan is like I just haven't seen a defensive identity
from the Chicago Bulls, and supposedly, like that's what the
front office is now addressing by going to get Isaac Courrel,
which cool will see, Like, if you're pegging your defense

(40:25):
on Isaac Curroll, I think there's some problems, broader problems
to be discussed. But I mean, but bringing it back
to mins, I think that, like that's what I'm excited
about more than anything. It's just like mis continuing to
grow and develop as a defender, as a defender, because
I think he should strive for himself. He should be
striving for all NBA defense. Like I just think his

(40:47):
abilities are that strong. He's been working on obviously like
gain physical strength, and I think that.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Will help him.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
I suppose, like my biggest help is like I just
don't want to see him bulking up and like I remember,
like I casually tweeted this in this turn, like this
viral sort of like tweet stone kind of thing where
it's like I don't really want to see mys bulking
up and being like a four. I think he should
play primarily as a wing because I think I just
think he's too versat and two skilled to just be

(41:15):
like playing low block and like.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Like he like.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
And I think the Bulls recognize that to a degree
because in his summer league in Vegas this summer, you
saw him getting a lot more on ball reps, which
he probably won't get that once we get to regular season.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
I don't know if.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
That's it looked like it was to me, just like
sound development reps for him. I don't know if he's
anybody should be expecting him to be like a primary
ball handler initiator. I think he's good come out screens.
I think it's great downhill, and he's working on his
three as well. So it's like I why aspire for
helpful with myas is just becoming a very well rounded,

(41:54):
strong wing NBA wing, and I think he can be
he has potentially be like an elite or secondary playmaker.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah, and there's really a lot to like about him,
like his game, the shooting. You know, some of the
shooting stuff was a concern you know, pre draft, but
he kind of you know, he shot I think over
thirty six from three something around that, so like he
tightened up that. So and like I said that, you know,
you want to see some of that on ball stuff.
You know, like I said, he might not get a
lot of those, but it's good to have that in
your repertoire.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
You know, if you want to be an All Star,
you know, see what you could do on ball. So
there's a lot of intrigued things about him, and you know,
I'm surprised he even fell as far as he even went.
You know, that was still kind of shocking. But uh,
let's talk about this year's pick. Noah. You know, he's
another long, you know, you know guy that like I said,
you mentioned before, the defense. You know, you guys could

(42:45):
score with the best of them, but you can.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
Give up the bulls existence.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
You know, like top we your top five in offense
like scoring, and then like bottom tier in defense. You know,
it's kind of it's it's kind of crazy, you know.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Excit in games a lot of Yeah, but yeah, it's like,
you know, you like to feel more confident going to
like the clutch time, like, oh, this isn't gonna be
some topsy turvy random ball kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Yeah, no, for sure.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
You know.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
So Noah Sang was the pick, and he's he's someone
I liked a lot. So when you guys took him out,
I was like, okay, and I get and maybe he's
fine to see some of that identity of like are
we're gonna get some long rangy wings and you know,
that's how we're gonna get the defense to get that
much better because the offense is there, it's got to
at least be a middle, middle of a pack type
of defense. So how did you feel about the pick

(43:36):
of knowing? And same thing with Jealous Like what's the
temperature with the with with the fan base.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
I think.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, the temperature the fan base temperature on seng is,
I think there's a TVD on some of that because
like he's just had such an odd kind of introduction
to Bulls fans because of like the poster thing. But
then like his very first Summer League game was not
great at all. And I think any Bulls fan has

(44:06):
really like followed the team for like the last five
or six seasons, they they they can quickly see that
like a tourist coin Shovers specifically is running basketball ops.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
This is like his this is the fact of type man.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Just like you know, people have their dating prefaces, like
more often than not, our tourist current show this has
gone for.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
These long, lanky wings who can't shoot and supposedly they
have a defensive rede.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Yeah, and she's loved that, you know, six eight wing
with the seven foot lenks band. I don't know if
they actually play, but they got the vegeables.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, and it's like he like he likes going for
these wings that can't shoot. And it's like it started
really I mean, Bulls had Deck Jones Jr. For like
two seasons, and I think he became a much improved
to be fair, uh djj Like he became a better
shooting after he left the Bulls and so it's probably
better than he did stick around. But like while he

(45:06):
was with the Bulls, like defensives were just like clapping
their hands and being grateful, like, oh, yes, please DJJ
take that three point instead of Zach Lavin. Yes, keep
taking them, And so I was like and at one point,
like he wasn't even in the rotation, but it's like him, uh,
you know, the Bulls drafted Daylan Terry, who, like, I

(45:26):
think he's making strides, but honestly that that would not
have been my pick. I can say that confidently at
this point. And I think Terry has the ability to
find his way in the league and be like a
serviceable rotational guy at some point, but I just don't
see him necessarily being a player of impact.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
The consequence from Chicago Bulls.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
And then then doubling down, they go and get Julian Phillips,
like they traded two second round picks to just like
Julian Phillips, Whereas like he's he's shown flashes, but again
it's like I've yet to see one of these ak
wings really like materialized into like a fully formed basketball

(46:05):
player yet, And I think that's already my apprehension and
anxiety about Noah Singe is that, yeah, like he's like
I watched some film from him in his euro League team.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
I could see some.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Positives and him sure that, like I got some notes
down about it where it's like.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
There's some good foundational things. But I think the biggest
thing by.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Far is like does he have the ability to like
physically function as an NBA player right now? I think
like that's just a and to me, that's a kind
of a wild question you have to have about your
first round draft pick, lottery pick at that, Like, you know,
I think it's one thing to go for upside, but

(46:44):
also like, yeah, this front obviously is just like really
been enamored with constantly picking projects time and time again.
Patrick Williams is the project, probably not even gonna like
pan out to whatever, like he was hoped to be
Dalen Terry, Julian Phillips, this one oldie Baghindi for Bulls
fans because it's such a wonky random thing at this point,

(47:04):
but uh, you know they select, uh you know, the
front office selected this drafting stash guy, Marco Simonovich, this
big who just never never materialized, Like all these draft
picks has just been these projects and it's like, to me,
the only hits you can reasonably assign to the bulls
from office. This point is, I'll assume who I think

(47:26):
the Aisles credit is just like an adaptable, resilient guy,
and he already had enough experience in you know, playing
big ten ball where it's like it wasn't that much
that I don't really need to work out in order
to make himself a serviceable like NBA player. And then
like yeah, mas, I think who was really more of
a gift anything because he fell because he easily have

(47:47):
been the number one pick. So I think the thing
of Noah is like I truly do not expect him
to play any NBA min's this season for two reasons. One,
I don't think he's physically ready yet, like he's just
does not. He does not have a physical bill where
it's like you could put him even against like that
men journeymen in like garbage time, like he really has

(48:09):
to work out and he's only a team to be
fair to him as well, like he's he's barely a
high school age graduate, so he's gonna work on that.
I think a heavy dose of the G League is
in his future and he needs it. But even if
he wasn't, even if he was a little bit more advanced.
I just think there's also this m o the front
office and the head coaching combination between Ak and Billy

(48:31):
Donovan where it's like they don't play rookies at all,
Like I thought my should have been playing really is
from jump like regular rotation mans. But they kept like
mess around with as minute as they were sending him
down to the G League.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
And it's just to me, he was he had things.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
That could have been useful contributions already at the beginning
of last season, but that you know, the Bulls elected
to sort of like shove him to the back of
the bench.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
And then somebody also, I think was it was the
front officer's.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Followed just like being ineffective at getting off of Zach Lavine,
Nikola Vusovich, these Vets and Tommy Manage were like you
had men's available from upfront, like they had the showcase
exactly finally trade them.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Mm hmm. So let's get to that next phase. Is
this what your general feeling about the front office and
the head coach. Obviously Billy Donvinds just got an extension,
you know, and some people are still wondering how he
still has a job when he keeps being you know,
mid So, what's your thoughts about this front office? Do

(49:35):
you have the confidence that they can make the right
decisions to put you in a position to be a
legit playoff team? You know, you know because this year,
I mean the East, you know, most you know East
is kind of open, you know, so they're gonna, well,
this is the year to do it. But do you
have the confidence in in that combination with AK and
and UH and Billy Donovan to get it done? Because

(49:56):
you know, like you said, a lot of draft picks
that happened, like I said, a work in progress, you
know a lot of you know, so you would think
that philosophy should change, you know, But we'll just give
me your overall feel you know about that that that
that combo of in front office and head coach.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
Of feeling. I think it is what I want to
hear you say it now.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
But well, and like before I even get to the
front office coach, I have to start with because I
just tweeted yesterday, I'm gonna read our paraphrases I had
yesterday in reaction.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
To the Billy Donvan extension news.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Uh, you know, as the saying goes fish fish Rocks
from the head and the head of the Chicago Bulls
is Michael Reinstor, So it really starts with ownership.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
I don't think the ownership group of the Chicago.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Bulls is particularly interested in like competitive winning NBA basketball.
I don't think they care about being in the playoffs
aside from if they get like one to two games
of gate revenue. Like, they have no desire and motivation
to have their French playing and deep into the playoffs.
They just have like time and time again for like, yeah,

(51:06):
I'm just like I'm probably not being old jad Bulls fan,
but for the entire duration post Jordan, like you know,
they left into Derek Rose and lucked into Tom Tubodeaux
being this thing, and then what happened like acrimonious, like
tell me this too soon, but like you know, teams
get into a conflict with the front office or whatever
and then they decide, oh, we don't need you anymore, TIBs,

(51:28):
We'll be just fine.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Like he owns the the White Sox, right, is that
the same? Yes?

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Yes, thankfully, yes, I yeah, I can never be No,
I'm a fan, thankfully because like if.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
I had to deal with Jerry Rhymes, over year round.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Uh, you know, I might slip my wrists and bats
up like awful for that fan.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Like White Sox fans, I have to like your team
doesn't even they don't even try. That's I just I'm
spoiled as the eighties fans that my team tries every
year at least they might not get it right, but
they try. I couldn't imagine seeing my team, you know,
lose one hundred thirty games a year.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
I gots that it's rough. It's to the point where
it's like I don't even try, like Pope, find the
White Sox fans because it's just like they're going through it.
And I know what they're going through because I have
to deal with during back to the basketball season.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
That that that's nasty. So you saying it's the starts
from the front.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Yeah, ownership.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Owner ship has no desire, no motivation to do anything
to make this a competitive team. And like I went
on a ramp about this, I think one of the
most shameful things that happened last season was there's all
this grand standing rhetoric that our tourrist current shows have
about we're going to be competitive, We're not gonna take
we're gonna keep trying to fight the win. But then

(52:50):
when the Bulls had, you know, once they once they
get into the final two week stretcher of like last season,
they sat up the entire roster against the Clevelands on
role in Cleveland to optimize like making sure they had
that nine game, nine ten game at the United States,
like allegedly that should say like that's that. That was

(53:11):
the optics that they went with when the whole season
about oh, we're not going to tank, we don't care
about Cooper Flag, We're gonna try to win. But then, oh,
what's set all the starters at this point where it's
like they actually had legitimate shy playing for the seven
eight game, Like if you're trying to win, why are
you not trying to win like every single night? That's
what I interpreted that to be, but it didn't. It's

(53:32):
it's really so I said, because I think that's a
necessary context for us start talking about our tourist current.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Shows, which no, I do not have any faith. I
do not like I.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Ridicule him at least, like I'm down to about two
or three times a wee get it was like at
some point, like daily what was going on AKA because.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
I just I've seen another.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
No, I've developed quite a repertoire for like finding ways
that just like like just trash ak because I don't
think he's I don't think he's effective for this job
at all. And I think the thing that continues to
burn me about him is just.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
No track record of winning a deal.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Yet his narrow minded view on top like he had
again he only cares about like six eight lanky wings
that can't shoot, like he hasn't prioritized a defensive player
they also can score the same time.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
Ever, in his entire like.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Tenure, he like he thinks defense is a specialist position,
which is why he went and got Cruz Alonso, which
to his credit, it worked out to a degree. But yeah,
Lonzo goes away, even as grand as Alex Crusoe was,
like he by himself was not going to help this
team play defensive level where they could actually win a
playoff series. And so yeah, now he goes and gets

(54:52):
Isaac curl and Isac curR is gonna fix his defense
mark my words, Like that's what that's what his red
is gonna be. He is gonna be talking about, Oh,
we went and got a curl, we think our defense
is gonna be better. I doubt that, to be honest,
because even Crow gets some stops, what is Cur gonna
do when when it's time to go get buckets?

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Like what I'm saying, like he has he brings zero
offensively a chorol. That's why he kind of got out
of favor in Cleveland, you know. Yeah, and he's not
he's not like he's an all world defender. Like he's
a good defender, but he's not. He's not like he's
Mark or Smart or even Caruso level of defending. So
like that's like I was like, okay, like I understand

(55:31):
your thought process, but I don't know if it actually
you know, if it's going to equate to what you want.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Yeah, and for more than likely you're gonna have a
Crow on the perimeter with Nikola Vucevich behind him, So
like we know what's gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
Like Krog gets blown by, Like that's that's two points
right there.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Yeah, big, that's another guy I want to match his
big bocheck. What do you think that in because it
feels like he's been trade rumors since he's got there,
So what's gonna happen. I think he this is last year,
it's deal.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Right, last year, if it's deal, and actually that so
that's another thing, and like I like Skeward Ak for that.
He completely fumbled Nikola Vuzavich's trade purely in my opinion
because at the beginning of season. Actually so I wrote
for give him a shout bulls on tap last season and
I wrote column they really hypothesized, like what would take

(56:23):
for Nikola Vusavitch trade. They happened because he was completely
damaged goods, Like nobody wanted Booch before the beginning last season,
but he really balled out and he started playing himself
to the point where like there were people who were
like legitimately asking himselves.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
Like should be offside of the season because he.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Was just shooting the ball like lights out, and like
that was the time to capitalize on him. The reports
were supposedly Ak won a first round draft pick for
Nicola Lusavich, which is just pure that's stupidity. Nobody's given
up a first round draft pick for a thirty four
year yeah, thirty four year old sinner who just finally

(56:58):
got his groove back after like be completely unusable, like
unplayable like the previous season, Like what kind of like
what kind of negotiator do you think you are?

Speaker 3 (57:07):
And it's like somehow and yet in still somehow the worst.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Kept coming back to the table to talk to the Bulls,
try to get something done, like take the two first
two second round picks for Bouche and keep it moving like.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
Is absolute Like, uh, it's absolute failure.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
It's a fireball offense that like Nikolavusvisi didn't get trade
lat year because the opportunity was there by by all
kunds of reports.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Yeah, that one. It's felt like it was a guarantee
he was gonna get moved, Like I'm like, okay, he's
definitely gonna get moved, just a matter of who's gonna
who needs to center, you know, a stretch big yeah.
And then just when they kept him, it was like okay.
And that's kind of what's felt like with the Bulls.
It's just like, okay, what direction do you want to
go to? Just seeing it from an outside, it's just like, okay,

(57:52):
what the re you guys have, Like you mentioned, it's
it's being in at thirty eight to forty two win range.
You know, that's where you don't want to be. You know,
you're stuck in purgatory, Like why do you keep going
in that direction? It is like you keep hitting your
head on the wall, and it's like, you know, stop
doing that. And I can imagine the frustration with that,
but it just they just don't know what direction to

(58:13):
go to. And that seems like I'm sure you and
plenty of other Bulls fans you know, that's your frustration
is where the hell are we going?

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Yeah, and I mean destensional Billy for a bit too.
I think it's it's just the worst possible combination because you,
I mean, what I would say about Billy Donovan, you know,
good NBA head coach. I think most people would recognize
that he probably was even more effective, yeah, you know
as an nc double a coach, you know, going back
to back national champs with Florida. I mean, that's why

(58:43):
he's in the Hall of Fame. And that's not to
knock him that he doesn't deserve the Hall of Fame
or anything, but I just like just to contentualize Billy
Donvan Billy Loman is a bad coach by any stretching imagination,
And I mean head coach's job is to win games.
So if you're looking to exclusively Billy Donovan, I think
he's done what he's been hired to do, which is

(59:04):
trying to win as many games as possible.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
And I mean they had that.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
They were saying, like Billy and AKA were saying that
a lot last season. So it's the worst I say,
it's the worst combination because you have Billy who wants
to win and so he's doing things that from a
bigger picture organization perspective, probably or not in the Bulls'
best interest because what was winning games look like for
Billy Donovan. It looks like again like Moss Buzzells didn't

(59:27):
really play much of the first half of the NBA
season because Billy Donovann won the win games. It's you know, guys,
like even going back earlier, like you know, the same
kind of pattern was happening in Daily Terry all these
different projects, and for some reason, AKA wants to keep
drafting like weren't really getting burned in the main roster
instead like they have to go get to burn in
the G league and like what is that really done

(59:49):
for these players?

Speaker 3 (59:52):
So it's it's the.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Worst combination of a coach who clearly knows what he
wants to do with the front office exactet that has
no goals, no plans, no real motivation to do anything
in a strategic way to where it's like he's progressing
towards something.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
He's just trying to be all things all everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Like if you listen to him give a press conference,
it will almost always be like the most benign platitudes
and meaningless stuff because he's he's never demonstrated action to
follow through on the things he says. He says he
wants to win, but like thes just gonna be playing again,
like he wants to be competitive. He doesn't do anything
to change the roster. He didn't make trades for three seasons,

(01:00:28):
like that's insane. He didn't do any roster moves for
three straight seasons, like he decided, Oh let me run
back Damar Zach and Vouch even though we just keep
going to playing like no, like yeah, I could go
on for like forever.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
For I'll just give you. I'll just give you a single,
single person take and you just go up and it
seems like you have you have a lot of frustrations.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I'll do a jazz solo while he sucks respectfully, like
you know, I'm sure he's a nice guy, but like
running the bulls, he's been in effective and he shouldn't
have his job.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
So do you think you know this is a due
or die season, like can people get fired or just
from what you've seen that, you're like, all right, they're
still well, well, we we're gonna have this this, this uh,
this duo here for for longer than we even want.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
A normal NBA ownership group would have all the seats.
There'd be a whole band of Kingsford charcoal underneath those seats,
for the front office, for the head coach, for really everybody.
Everybody should really be on Pozzi. But again, like that's

(01:01:45):
why I had the caveat with Michael Roansjo up front
because Michael rons I don't think is a normal NBA
owner because he seems to be very tolerant and very
comfortable with the most mediocre basketball product on the Like
I just think the balls of mediocre team in the
NBA bar none, like in the most textbook since Also

(01:02:06):
because it's like they're always going to be forty games
a playing game and then just move on like it's
just no, no, real upside to be realized right now.
I mean, this phenomenal upside, but I like, I have
no expectation other than see this team win forty games
this coming season, and like maybe it's a gutsy first

(01:02:30):
playing game when only to then become like a catastrophic
failure of a second playing game. That's what That's all
I've seen so far.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
So yeah, I mean, I know how it feels. Like
I said, I'm a Knicks fan, so I know that feeling.
And you know, I think to me that the NBA
is best when the Lakers are rocking, the Celtics are rocking,
the Knicks are rocking, and the Bulls are rocking, And
like I said that, I always go back to that

(01:03:00):
game versus the Lakers as like a moment like Okay,
this is what can happen if the Bulls are back
and they're rocking and everything's going. We saw with the
you know, we saw with d Rose, and I don't
want to bring back those memories. And I know that
it still hurts, you know that, you know, the d
Rose years what could have been, you know, but it shows,
you know, when the Bulls are rocking, it's it's best

(01:03:20):
for the league and you know the Attendon still shows.
You guys are still people are going they just want
a direction and so we'll see. But before I'm gonna
get with trivia. We're gonna end this off with trivia.
But okay, just what is Morris's feeling about the team
heading into the for the twenty twenty five toenty six Seedson, Like,

(01:03:40):
what are we feeling as of right now? What is
your you have optimism? Are you more pessimistic? What's what's
Morris's feeling right now for the next for the twenty
five to twenty six season.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Yeah, I think I think our tourist cent show is destroyed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Any we'll see yourble optimism for me with Chicago Bulls,
I I just actually I expect more to say forty
win team one or two playing games. There'll be some
moments that maybe get like some some viral like tweets
and maybe a couple of Sports Centering highlights, but nothing consequence.

(01:04:16):
I mean, I don't expect this team challenging for a
playoff series at all, and if they were, it would
be probably squeezing into the eighth seed to get destroyed
by who the first seed is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
It's great, I said that about Miami this year, Like
why did you make the playoffs? That makes you cost
yourself a lottery pick that could have been the number
one pick and then you lose. Now you lose the
pick and then you got your ass kicked in the
in the.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah, that's definitely another team, like you could at least
make the case.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
They're like all that, like heat Coulture voodoo.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
It kind of did work a few times, like to
be able to get to the finals of the eight seeds. Crazy,
but a testament to just how much of a man
man Jimmy Butler is. And that's also another honestly, Like
I think I'm I'm at peace with the Rose. The
Jimmy thing is something I'm still not like over all
with the Bulls because I would argue the Bulls have
been there and rebuilt since the Jimmy Butler trade that

(01:05:15):
exists to this day, because that was a horrible trade itself,
and it cost.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
John paxsay in his job, he's so bad a trade.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
I don't want to, you know, I don't bring back
bad memories for you. I know that there's a lot
we could go through, you know, So all right, let's
end it off. With a little Bulls trip. I got
three questions for you. Let's see, let's shoot, all right.
First one, who's the first Bulls to get the number retired?

(01:05:47):
Even give me the number and the name if you
could do the double.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
I think the first one was Jerry Sloan.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
Hey, you got Jerry Sloan? Yes? Do you have the number?

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Sloan was?

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
I'm probably mess up the number because I always confuse him. Uh,
Sloan's four bingo? Alright, that's like I I had Bob Love,
I was slowan in love, and then I was Indian.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
This guy has a lot of these. But how many
exactly does he have? How many scoring titles does Michael
Jordan have?

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Ah?

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
Is it eleven? Scoring titles?

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Give you one more? Guests?

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Fourteen? Scoring titles?

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Got ten? Ten?

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
And scoring titles?

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Last one? Actually, no, I got two more. I gave
you two more. Who has who is the single season
assist leader all time for the Bulls?

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Oh? Uh per game or total total? M is it?
Kirk conor?

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
What is the record at this point?

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Kirk?

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
I'll it's it's a throwback, A throwback. I'll give you that.
It's a it's a bit of a throwback. We're even
going Jordan wasn't even thought about.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Oh, okay, is it Jerry Slow? No, it's Jerry slom
Ah who else?

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
This one's a tough one. This one's a tough one.
It goes to the sixties. Chat Walker, Now give you
one more, give you one more guess?

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
Yeah, you go something. I'm just gonna say, like, was
it Tom Bowwinkle?

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Nah, Guy Rogers?

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Rogers?

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Okay, okay, at the time, a nine hundred and eight assist. Okay,
that was the record at the time. All right, last one,
What is the lowest scoring game ever in Chicago Bulls history?
This one's fairly fairly ish recent.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
Yeah, this happened. The things that happened like within the
last like what three seasons, because I probably watched the
one live.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
I was mad.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
This just happened in the last quarter century.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Okay, the like just the lowest score they had and
the lowest score.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
They had it was. It's pretty bad too.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
It's pretty like I think it, Like, wasn't it like
fifty five points?

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
They're close?

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Fifty points?

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Y'are you're right on there? Forty five a little bit
you were there with fifty a little subtract one, oh
forty nine points nine forty nine. It's the Baaby heat
in ninety nine, which that's nasty.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Yeah, that that but that's that's perfect for that era
that that was.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
That's the first year. That's the first year like without
that's prime.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
It's prime Tim Floor those years with something. And it's
like I'm starting to get to a point where with
our tourists where it's like I don't know if I
want to be too hot taking and say it's getting
worse than Tim Floyder. But it's just it's like a
different it's a different flavor because like Tim floy was
just bad and you knew it's bad, but you were

(01:09:21):
at least getting like you're getting like top lottery picks.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
H Prouse might is own place, hey some of those picks.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
But like with this, it's like the bulls are just
like going nowhere and we're not at least like like
can we at least get like a top five pick?

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
Mm hmm. Was that the lowest point like the years
right after Jordan left like that?

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
Oh yeah, it was dark.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
That was bad.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
I mean even though l Brown was good, like still
it's like besides Elton Brown I think I remember we
had Khalid.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
L m L. I mean, uh, we go back and get.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Who get to bring back Scottie Pippen, all right, I forgot.

Speaker 3 (01:10:08):
Jen the Jalen Rolls years.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Like there's just a lot of while like we got charge,
you know, oh came.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Back, Yeah, put the greatest hits.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Yeah, it's like it was kind of like it was
looking dark and I mean it's funny, like, you know,
John Paxson gets maligned a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
For kind of how his tenures running the Bulls ended.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
But like I have come to a place where it's
like I do try to make a point of saying,
like I think you at least have to give John
Paxson credits as an executive for like what he did
to clean up the Bulls and get them back to
being relevant like that for those first five or six
years to get it, you know, up to the point
where the Bulls drafted Derek Rose, like you know he

(01:10:54):
drafted well I think in that period a time.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Yeah, I don't want to bring back those more negative
memories for you. We'll try and I.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
Went, they never leave, they lost my brain.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Morris, my guy, round of applause for you, coming on
the pod.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
Yeah, I want to say, yeah, the fun talking about
the Bulls, the good times, the bad times. You know,
like I said, I know the feeling. I know the
feeling of that. But before we sign off, man, like
I said, thanks for coming on, appreciate it. You know
it's going to do more of these, you know, State
of the franchises. You know, we start off with the
State of the Bulls. Where can the people find you?

(01:11:36):
You know, you're doing a lot of good stuff. That's
why I wanted you on because I know you're very
knowledgeable with the game and wanted to really get into
a deeper dive of these Chicago Bulls. So where can
the people find you in? Any projects you got coming
up the floor of yours?

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
Absolutely? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
My main basketball platform now is Narratives per Possession. I
launched that is sort of like a multimedia basketball brand
back in May. So we've got we got Patreon community.
Please join the Patreon communities free monetizing. That just trying
to build up the community. And if you're watching us

(01:12:11):
right now on YouTube, please head over to the nearest
per Possession YouTube channels. Well, please subscribe to that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
I tagged I tagged that on the on the post,
so if you appreciate that, thank you all right on
on the on the on the screen.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
Yeah I appreciate that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
So like primarily Patreon and YouTube, nearest per possession and
also you know.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
That you know see in my uh what cryon here?

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Yeah, nears per seventy five on X please follow that
my personal account. You can follow me at more banks
ten this m O B A n K S one
zero also on X. I know I've got some footprints
on Instagram as well, but that lapsed on Instagram.

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
I need to get back into a bit more.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
And I'm pretty sure I have Blue Skot's well, but
Blue Sky feels quiet.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
I tried, like but there's just too many, too many,
and I know X's you know, if people are down it,
but I established established, you know, your footprint on it.
Hard to just go away from it. So it's like,
all right, I'm still I'm on Blue Sky. But I'm like,
I that is just.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Crazy, Like it's never like you can't, like the Cold
Play thing, like what's the col thing happened?

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
Like, man, people are never leaving.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
X now you can't. It's just an established brand, like
regardless of who owns it whatever, and then we get
stuff like that. You're not gonna gety like blue guys
wouldn't do that. We'll find you, Like I mean, people
you go on to X and be like, yo, you
know that, Someone's like yo, can you find this person?

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
I don't know?

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
And then they find them, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
So it's you know, it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
It's crazy. It's crazy, but dude, you're doing good stuff. Man,
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
I really appreciate it. Thank you for rocking with me.
Thank you for having me on too it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Man for sure, for sure, like I said, definitely have
you on it is the first time. It won't be
the last time. We will have my guy Morris on
the pop. But you can follow me at all the ballpod.
I'm on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Make sure to like subscribe
to YouTube channel. It's been been doing some good stuff
to numbers lately, so let's keep going at it. Rode

(01:14:19):
the seven hundred followers subs is over halfway there. We're
almost halfway there the seven hundred, so let's get there.
Make sure the like subscribe. We're gonna continue this except
definitely gonna have Morris back on, you know, and talk more. Bulls.
Hopefully it's hopefully it's on a more positive note. You know,
maybe his this GM is no longer the GM, and

(01:14:41):
you know we're celebrating, you know so, But my dream
he's gonna have You're gonna have a party when that happens.
But I'll put all the descriptions, all the good stuff
for Morris. You can follow them below, except make sure
to follow narrative pro procession. You can see the AD
handle on the in the in the title, so make

(01:15:03):
sure I check that out of you some good stuff.
But on that note, everyone be well, be safe, take care,
peace out guys.

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
Right m.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
Start spreading the new New, New New.

Speaker 3 (01:15:27):
We interrupt our program to bring you this important message,
New York. I love you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
I love New York.

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The State of the Chicago Bulls ft Morris Bankston

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