Where will Fox and Jimmy go? 76ers up and down season, Knicks legit? w/Steven Bagell

On the latest EP I'm joined by Steven Bagell credentialed CBB media member and Host of the Bird Rights pod 

Topics

• Jimmy to Cleveland?
• Fox trade ideas
• Are the NYK legit contenders?
• Can the 76ers save their season?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Start spreading the new, new, new New. We interrupt our
program to bring you this important message New York.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
I love you, I love you.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Oh, it's trying to get over the fires.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Away, it's over the first way of the other. Dollar
a curry back, take a dollar a player, Oh buck
by James Lebrian James with the rejection just puts.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Up the prase long gir pat back back out to an.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
His retied.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
What's going on? People? Welcome back to another episode of
the Off the Ball Podcast with me, your hoptes Chris Lebron,
and we are brought to you by ice Shaker. You're
your go to ice shaker that you need in your life.
Cold drinks, hot drinks. Use promo code off the Ball
to go quin dollars off your first purchase when you

(01:23):
go to ice shaker dot com. But we got a
go one today. I got a guy that I've been
on his pod before talking college basketball. He's he's the
busy man, so I'm happy to have him on the pot.
My guy Stephen, host of the Bird Rise podcast and
a credential college basketball media member. Now you know he's
gotta see if you were on the timeline, you've seen
he's all over the place, you know. So Steve my Man,

(01:46):
welcome to the pod.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Chris. It is always a pleasure. You've been on Bird Rights,
and you've been on one and done both my podcast
a couple of times now, though I think this is
my first time on yours. If I'm yes, welcome to the.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yes, Yes, I'm excited to have you on. So we're
gonna be just a lot going on in the association.
You know, we're gonna talk about, you know, the up
and downs of the seventy six er season. You know,
talk about we believe in the New York Kicks. So
let's get right into it. Obviously, you know there's a
lot the trade Dug line is is days away, Steve,

(02:28):
and there's a lot of rumors, and obviously, you know
we heard yesterday Jimmy, you know, got suspended again for
the third time. First time, got spend it for seven games.
They got suspended for two games and now suspended and
definitely walked out of a practice after finding out that
he's not gonna be starting no more. So, what what's

(02:49):
your thoughts on the whole Jimmy saga, because obviously it's
it's been brewing all season long and it's you know,
pat Riley came out and said we're not trading him
not too long ago, and I think a lot of
people were like, I don't believe you. And now it's
it's you know, suspended three times since that, since that incident,

(03:09):
and now it's looking like he's definitely going to be traded,
but or at worst, this is the last time we've
seen him in a Miami Heat uniform. So what's your
thoughts on the whole Jimmy stuff and what do you
think is the solution towards.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
So when I was doing my bird rds, like season
previews for a whole bunch of NBA teams, we finished
recording one episode and my guest said, there's rumblings that
Jimmy Bubler wants out of Miami. And at the time
this was this is not a known thing by any means.
It didn't really shock me given the nature Jimmy Butler.

(03:48):
But I prefaced that to say, like, this has probably
been drilling longer than you know what's been out there
that since this offseason he's been wanting an extension in
Miami has been on to give it to him. So
with that said, I mean, as a Sixers fan growing up,
I have I've experienced, you know, the Jimmy Butler sag.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
But honestly, we got the good version Jimmy.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Butler because we got him on inspiring deal when he
thought there was a possibility Philly could pay him at
the end of that year. So we got good behavior
Jimmy Butler. We didn't get the Jimmy Butler waving ballely
towels for the Warriors on the t Wolves bench. We
we didn't get to scruntle Jimmy Butler. So it's tough
for me to say, like really, I mean I went

(04:36):
through with Ben Simmons definitely with as a Sixers fan,
so I know what it's like to have it just
drunked older you know, star that once out. But like
there's just he has to get traded, right, I mean
at this point people are talking about, oh, maybe Miami
holds out and then he'll threaten to pick up his
fire oxtion. Maybe he will pick up Miami doesn't want

(04:56):
to deal with that. I mean, you know how the
heat are. They never bottom out. They never have bottom
out in my lifetime and I'm thirty years old. Yeah,
they they've never really at least if they weren't that great,
that's one. But I've never seen the Miami Heat just tank.
It's they've never had we.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Haven't had a consistent bad year. They maybe I think
they had like a bad year when they got Beasley,
but like other than that, they haven't really had been
consistently bad like some of other teams, you know, as
our teams have uh you know, have done in our
life teams, you know.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
So I preface that to say, yes, I know they
do want some financial flexibility going into this offseason and
even the following off season. The one team that has
stuck out, and again I host a bird raids pot.
I'm a self proclaimed NBA front off air CBA salary
cap guy, so I could drug trades all day. But

(05:52):
I preface that maybe Golden State. I know, Phoenix has
been the one that everyone's talking about, but even from
the beginning, I said, who the heck is gonna want Bradley.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Beal's that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
And Bradley Bualle would have to pick them as well.
So people say, oh, Chicago because that makes some sense
because they have Zach Lavine's bad contract. So it's not
as bad as Bradley Beal, So maybe those are three
teams a to be worked out there. But like people
were talking about Bradley Buel to Milwaukee and Chris Middleton
and Bobby Portis to Miami and Pat Connaton to Toronto,

(06:27):
and like the super explaining a four to five team
deal Milwaukee. No, they're not gonna take Bradley Beal, and
I think that was actually reported that they don't want
Bradley Beal. So at this point, I don't see a
way that he's gonna end up in Phoenix, even though
that's he knows Maddishpiel would pay him. So I mean,
and he came out and said I will play for
any team except for Miami and Memphis. That indicates to

(06:50):
me that Memphis inquired and said, okay, we're willing to
trade for you, even if you know we're taking the
shot on you not resigning here. They were willing to
take him as an eventaal.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Which is kind of a wild because Memphis is like
tied for the second seed right now, and they can
use a Jimmy Butler, you know, especially in the playoffs.
They could use a player like him to get over
that next to get to that next networks.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
So yeah, I mean the only team that really makes
sense to me is the Golden State Warriors, where you
could package Andrew Wiggins, you could package Jonathan Kamingo, but
then like Miami or they don't pay Mingo the thirty
million dollars.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
We know that's what he wants.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
That's why he extending him now next Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
So it's like that doesn't give them the cap flexibility
to looking for un That's something again I'm gonna plug
my mark trade dubline here. We actually accomplished a three
team deal where Jimmy went to Golden States, right, Wiggins
went to Toronto, so they based and then like Bruce
Brown's expiring, went to Miami a deal similar to that.

(07:53):
I think Kelly olinok and Den Schroeder Warno somewhere and
that he still did get Kamingo, so the stiff that
have to pay Kaminger. They also didn't have Wiggs contract
on the books. I mean, maybe that's the three team
that we could see. My one dark horse. I will say,
for Jimmy Butler, what do you think about the Cleveland Cavaliers.

(08:16):
I'd mentioned it to people and people don't love it.
But I could see, you know, before this four game
losing streak, they won't pace to win seventy games. And
like if they could convince themselves that Jimmy will be
like a secondary, a tertiary like bar handler behind goallin
and Mitchell, like he's the wing defender, what's the trade?

(08:39):
So Max Drews, Isaaca Coro, and who's the other mid
TiAl guy. I could pull up the cap sheet real quick.
I have it right here, Max Drews, Isaaca Coro and
Carris Laver, who's an ex firing That gives Miami a

(09:01):
little bit of cap flexibility. They already, you know, they
have familiarity in Max Strews. Obviously they're not taking any
bad money. And again Miami don't buy him out. They'll
take two or three role players for Jimmy. Potentially, maybe
Cleveland throws in I don't know, a couple seconds or something.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Cleveland's draft equity offhand, but I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
It's something I've dabbled with. Its like there's always a
doll horse in these conversations, And for Jimmy, I think
it was Memphis until he's trying to not push his
way away from that. M hm, maybe Cleveland is the
dark horse here.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Cleveland's interesting because they can.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
I don't know where else he goes. If it's not
Golden State. I don't think it's Milwaukee. Phoenix would have
to get a Bradley be All. I think anyone's taking
I mean, where, what's another aside from Golden State a
feasible option for Jimmy Butler right now? If not Memphis, you're.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Just starting to hear Golden State stuff. Cleveland's interesting. That's
interesting because especially during their Loudie Street, they've really struggled
on the perimeter defensively. Yeah, and I know Jimmy is
not the same defensive menace he was when he was younger,
but still, that's that would be a bonus for them

(10:10):
because they can use that. But it would be a
small you know, you know, I mean, but you still, I.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Mean, you got no Let me ask you your Knicks guy, obviously,
anyone listen who listens to this pod know your next guy.
Knicks I think we could say has the best safely
say the Knicks have the best starting one through five
in the NBA more or less. Yeah, if Cleveland had
Jimmy Butler, who has the better starting five Jimmy Goland, Mitchell,

(10:43):
Evan Mobley, Jared Allen. I think that's better than what
the Knicks half. And I think the Knick starting lineup
is phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
It's definitely competive, it's definitely up there. And Jimmy has
as uh he's he's he's taken us down in the
playoffs before, and that could be what Cleveland could could
be to get over the top two. So no, that's it.
I haven't thought about Cleveland and this Jimmy stuff, but

(11:09):
you know, especially with this little funk they've had. Yeah,
they said they're they're struggling on the perimeter. They don't
have that next that third guy that can help them,
and Jimmy would be Jimmy would be the ideal they.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Would still have. They would still have Dean Wade in
the scenario, who's been phenomenal for them. I know he
got hur on a couple of days ago, but he'd
be the first guy off the betch. You still have
tied Jerome. Yeah, like George Niang, they could probably flip
for big Man to really like solid a fate if
they could get Jimmy Butler and Larry nance junior or
something like that. If the deadline, this Cleveland team is phenomenal,

(11:47):
and when you're on pace win seventy games is layed
in the year before that losing streak, you go for
it like you're too close not to.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
No, I'm with you, I'm with you, especially if you're
they're close. Mobley has gotten significantly better, especially offensively. You know,
Jared Allen has been solid, rock solid. Garland is playing
up to you know, playing like his his all Star season.
You know, hey, you might have to go all in.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
But that that The counter argument to that is, Okay,
do you really want to ruffle these feathers bringing a
possible distrunted stall who knows he may not get paid
for you when you have all these guys maximizing, like
does Jimmy Bolo maximize what these guys have been doing.
That's the question that Kobe Aldman in that front office
is gonna have to ask themselves.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
And do you extend him because he wants an extension.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
When you're as good as Cleveland is, Just worry about
it later if he picks up a playofption he does.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
If not, then you worry about it.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Then I think Cleveland has there. I say, you got Boston,
New York, Cleveland, that's probably the cream of the crop
in the East. You you kind of have to figure out, Okay,
how do we pro lies on this whatever we got
right now? Because you know, in the NBA, Steve like
more than ever it's a win now league. Like it's

(13:09):
no more we're gonna wait for we got four or
five years to build this out. You know, It's like, no,
we got two years, two three years, and we need
to figure this thing out right now, you know. So,
do they make a power that's a power move? And
I remember a few years ago, but when they got
Donovan Mitchell, I was like, yo, Cleveland has the assets

(13:31):
and the pieces to make a power move. And they
made that power move. Now do they strike again with
another big time move and have their you know, and
and have a formal starting lineup that goes up with
Boston and New York, because that's what it looks like.
You need you need that formual That's what the Knicks did.
The Knicks saw Boston said we need a we need

(13:53):
a starting fire that matches up with Boston because if
we it doesn't matter the depth, like we need the
starting lineup that can go toe to toe with Boston
or else, We're just going to be a second round,
third round team and we can't compete with Boston. And
if for Cleveland, do you say you are you having
that same mindset like, hey, yeah, we had a great

(14:15):
start to the season, but right now, hey we might
not be with Boston and New York they got elite
starting fives. We added Jimmy Butler. Is that what helps
us potentially get to that home.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
And Cleveland wants to make sure they keep that one
seedither because then you have the Knicks in Boston beating
each other up in the two three matchup, while they'll
go against like the Milwaukee's or the Orlandos to get
to these some conference finals.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
No in position, Yeah, No, Cleveland is interesting. That is
definitely a team that I wasn't thinking about and and
now it has me thinking that there is a team lurking,
because like I said, there's not a lot of teams
that are really going to be in it, you know,
to get Jimmy, but so you're you're you know, like

(15:02):
I said, he wants to go to Phoenix. But that's
very tricky that I don't know how that even works.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
You. I wish there was a team I could say, Okay,
I could this makes sense for this team to take
Bradley Beall's I don't say it. I mean Milwaukee is
not going to take Bradley Beall. No, I just I
don't know. Chicago is the only one that makes some

(15:30):
sense because they have Zach Levine's contract. But Zack Levine's
contract I still feel is way better than Bradley Beal's contract. Yeah,
that's how bad the Brad Bale and I love brad
Beall as a guy and as a player, but that's
just the reality of the situation. And would he even
waive his no trade costs to go to Chicago? Probably not.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
No, not Chicago, I don't think so. So yeah, I
mean his his dreams of wanting to go play with
Famian Listen, Jimmy has shown that he he definitely wants
to be in Phoenix with you know, the hair stuff,
with the braids and the shoes.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
So like, what about Denver would be all? I know
it's been reported that Beal would waves no trade calls
for Denver, but I don't think the Nuggets would want
that deal.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
How many years let this bell have in this contract too, Yes,
two more after this year, so it's two after this year.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
I don't think Denver would want it.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
I don't think Denver. I mean Michael Porters on.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
A on a on a Max and you got the
Porter would probably have to go out. So that's what
you do? You do? That is that?

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Does that make you better if you get rid of
Porter and Flip Beal? I don't think so you have.
I don't know Rob Russell Westbrook. You know Jamal Murray,
Bradley Beal trio.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
No matter what the Bradley Beal deal or Jimmy Butler,
if there was a deal involving Jimmy brad it's going
to be at least four or five teams.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
There's no way it's gonna be a massive, massive trade.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
What about the only other spot I could think of
that would potentially take brad Beale? I want to say
the Los Angeles Clippers, only because Steve Balmer is so
much richer than every other owner in the NBA that
he could give, you know, part of my French two
ships about you know, paying him like he has so

(17:20):
much money. But at the same time he didn't want
to pay Paul George.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
This off season, So like he's not that they're just
going back.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
To the logic. But sometimes logic precedes stuff like this,
Like we see NBA for offices make moves that we
may not agree with that we don't foresee. So like
maybe there's a team out I just I don't know
a team that would make sense that Brad Bell would
waves no trade laws for that would also take Brad Beale.
So again, there's no way that Jimmy get to the Phoenix.

(17:50):
I just don't say it.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
I'm sure they're trying. Oh no, I'm sure they're trying.
And but it's it's gonna be interesting because that it's
it's not an ideal, it's not an ideal situation. But
I definitely don't see Jimmy Butler. He will not be
wearing a Miami Heat jersey again, So regardos if it's
trader or not, or they just say stay home, we

(18:14):
can figure a trade. We couldn't get you to Phoenix.
Just stay home and just stay home. We'll just enactedate you.
You know, you know you're just gonna be on the
neck list. And that's it. It's it's a it's a
it's a I can get Jimmy's beef, though I understand
where he's coming from. You know, I could see him
being like, yo, twenty nineteen, free to see you guys

(18:36):
missed on you know, all the tough agents in twenty nineteen.
I come there and I go farther than anyone that
you were targeting. KD Kawhi. I go farther than those guys.
I take you to two championship. I take you the
two Eastern Conference championships. Like win them, we go to
two finals. I just I want to be compensated well.

(18:56):
And but on the other side, you see Pat rally,
and this is not like new for parall He's done
this as whole. He did it to shock, he did it.
He did it to Dwayne Wade, the best player in
franchise history. He let him go to Chicago. You know,
so this is a pat Rody's like, no, I'm not
paying you for what you did. I'm you know, paying
you for what you can do and what you can't.
You can't do what you did. So I see that aspect.

(19:20):
But and now it's just a situation that's just really
gotten out of hand, and it's it's it's it's a
it's an unfortunate end to a very a very uh
underrated like run for a player of this caliber, like
we haven't seen a player of this caliber like lead
a team to two finals like this like we've seen

(19:40):
with Butler, because he's not considered like a top five,
top ten player. You know, we haven't seen something like that.
You know, it's it's it's pretty unique that he was
able to take this and the runs he had in
those an eight seed and beating the teams he beat
in that run, that was impressive.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
But what I will say, Jimmy Bublo is not a
top five, top ten guy. League agree, But when all
of a sudden the calendar flips to April, May or June,
he might be. And unless again I'm not gonna hop
on the Cleveland argument too much longer, But unless Cleveland
is you know, the twenty two thousand and four Detroit Pistons,

(20:19):
they need a guy who's seen as a top ten guy.
Every NBA champion except probably that two thousand and four
Pistons team was led by a future Hall of Famer,
top seventy five all time player.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
So unless you think Donovan Mitchell is that good.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Which he might be, I'm not disputing that there are
the two thousand and four Pistons if they find a
way to get it done. But Jimmy, I feel like
elevates that a little bit because Jimmy traditionally has been,
you know, a top eight to ten player in the
world when it matters most on the biggest sages. I
don't know if he's that guy anymore, but there's one
way to find out if you're Cleveland.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
And that's the risks you have to really think about,
do we think we're gonna get that? Because if you think,
if you have the if you feel confident that Jimmy
can be that person in a new environment where he
he's gonna be appreciated, then you might have to take
that risk, right because if you think that they're like,

(21:15):
all right, this might guys put us over the top.
Then look what he did with lesser teams and you
and we surround you, surrounded with Garland and Mobley and
Allen and Donovan Mitchell. You might be like that, this
is what gets us to the to the Promised Land,
to to Larry O'Brien Trophy. So that's something I'm sure

(21:35):
not just Cleveland and some other franchises thinking about. But
like I said, the Cleveland thing, didn't think about. I'm
gonna start. I'm gonna I'm gonna ask people and see
what they feel about that, because that's I didn't think Cleveland.
But another guy who's kind of been very unappreciated at times,
you know, playing in Sacramento. That happens, we've seen that before.
But the Aaron Fox, it seems like that's another guy

(21:59):
that might be and chipped out. We heard some of
the rumors today that you know, they're trying to get
trade possibly before the deadline, and San Antonio is from
what we heard, maybe a top destination. Obviously they have
a Victor Wembinyamo over there. So the Aaron Fox, what's
what's the percentage that you think he will get traded?

(22:20):
And where do you what's some teams you think he
might be a good fit for.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
So I actually let me see. On my YouTube channel
against shameless plug, I three weeks ago I posted a
video basically saying these are the two most likely the
xpos for Ger and Fox if you know he will
become available, kind of foreseeing that this was a possibility.

(22:44):
The two tams I talked about in that video was
san Antonio and Houston. I do think it's going to
be one of those two. San Antonio obviously it's been
reported that day or his preferred destination. If I suppose,
I'll put it this way, If Sacramento wants more of
like a veteran package out to Keithan competitive on top

(23:10):
of better draft picks, and san Antonio is a better package.
If you want the younger assets and you're willing to,
you know, rebuilt a little bit, then it's probably Houston.
But at the same time, Houston has some very valuable
picks as well. Houston could, it just comes to bidding,
will offer a package that the Spurs are not gonna
be able to beat. I put together, actually today, two

(23:35):
Daron Fox trade packages. Let me know, if you were
in charge of the Sacramento Kings, which of these two
deals are more appealing to you? Chris, Okay, the Houston deal.
Fox goes to Houston, they get Steven Adams expiring deal,
They get Read Shepherd, who we know is just the

(23:57):
number three pick in the draft. They get your Barie
Smith junior, which I think Houston would be more than
fine dealing because ever since he's been out. And then
Thompson's taken off and they have Tarli Easton still, so
Red Shepherd, Jabari Smith, and Cam Widmore. They'd be willing
to give all three of them. I think if you
could keep Amen and Tari, they would give all three

(24:20):
of them plus the Adam expiring, plus Phoenix first in
twenty five, twenty seven, and twenty nine.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
So Phoenix is twenty five.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
Twenty seven and twenty nine first round.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Picks, so three first and that.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
With Reed Shepherd, Jabari Smith, Cam Widmore and the Steven
Adams expiring. That that I figure is like the Hail Mary,
Like Okay, Spurs, well, not messing aroundymore, You're not topping
this offer. They would still also have that Brooklyn twenty
twenty seven swap, which they could really make a sweetener

(24:55):
and throw the Sacramento because figure the next just starting
a readbuild. There still gonna you know, that picks, but
twenty seven is gonna be valuable very much. So that's
an awful that came up with that. Like, Okay, san Antonio,
no team, unless OKC really decides to throw in everything,
no team's beating that package that Houston just assembled.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
That's what I'm saying Houston has the assets to make
the move without actually hurting their you know what they
have going on. So I mean, and the money works
in that it does because Adams contract right, well.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Adams is twelve point six, then reading Jabario about ten each,
so that he gets you to thirty four, and then.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Win More's three that thirty seven, Fox makes thirty four.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
That's a great deal. I if I'm if I get that,
I'm Sacramento.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
I'm like, yeah it Sacramento, Yeah, yeah, I do that yesterday.
Well dispersed package. Now, I don't know if Santa Antonio
would want to give up Devin Vessel or Steph Castle.
They would probably have to if they I have to.

(26:10):
The initial trade I came up with would be Kelton Johnson,
Zach Collins, and Jeremy Sohan.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Okay, Zach Collins.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Oh, let me see. I'm pulling up the pick equity
that the Spars had because the Spurs have better draft picks.
I feel.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
That they just Toronto picked this year.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Right. They have Chicago top ten protected, so that could
be literally pick eleven the best possible outcome for them,
or it's top eight protected next year. So Chicago's gonna
keep playing this game with the teetering with tanking or
the plan that Epic's going to convey this year next year,
most likely more in the following. I think it's top six.

(26:57):
They have Atlanta unprotected in twenty five and twenty seven
and an Atlanta swap in twenty twenty six. They have
let me see what else they have? Those wo would
probably be the most appealing ones, and they have all
their own picks, which I'm sure they be fine with
giving given the fact that they have Wemby. They have

(27:19):
a twenty thirty if they really want to go far out.
Twenty thirty one. The Sacramento was in a swap for
taking on the house in Bondsteel and the Jeruze sign
and trade, so they could give the Kings that swap back.
Like there's a way I think this supposed could get
it done. But again I think even with Jeremy so handed,
they they'd have to give up Steph Castle just because
the AMMO. Houston could go into negotiations with so.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Is, Zach Colin, Sohan Castle and Kilda Johnson.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Maybe those four plus four first and Sacramento gets a
swap back or something. Maybe something like that. Again, I
still think that Houston deal is better.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Didn't if they had to pick. If if Sacramento had
to pick, I think Houston still would be more appealing.
But I mean either or. I mean, because I I'm
a big Castle guy, I think Castle is going to be.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Castle was number one on my big board.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
He was mine too. He was mine on my big
board too, So I have high praise for him and
I think he's going to be an all star caliber player.
Uh So, if you but I either deal, I mean,
I like, I think the Houston one would for Sacramento.
That would put them in a good position going forward,
you know, for their because they would be a rebuild.

(28:36):
And then obviously demonts a bonus. I don't know if
he's a candidate now, but maybe in the offseason that's
probably more likely where they'll try to maybe he's a
part of something. I'm sure someone will want him. But yeah,
that's those are two good offers. But yeah, would you
you would take the Houston one.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Right if I if I had the choice, I would
take the Houston if I'm Sacramento. But what I will say,
these things have a way working themselves out, especially with
the power agent like Rich Paul that they could say, look, Fox, Houston,
you could trade for him, he will not resign with you,
and that could get Houston off from giving you know,
a massive off of like this one that we that

(29:16):
we're talking about now.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
So it's like, if he wants to really push him
off to San Antonio, he could.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
He's not re signing anywhere else but San Antonio. And then.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
So does that dete you if you're Houston that much?
Or Houston could theoretically give Fred van Vliet in a
deal with one or two of those young guys as Sacramento,
you know, wants to stay competitive. You know, I think
the Fox and VanVleet backwood would work fine. Fred van
Leet played next to Kyle Lowry didn't want a champion,

(29:50):
like if Houston did that deal we talked about, or
they're giving up with Moore, they're giving up Jabari Smith,
and they're giving up Shephard. That team is built very
similar to the Rockets, to that Toronto Kawhi team that
won it all. Yeah, they would have the two small
guards and Fox and VanVleet the way they had VanVleet

(30:10):
and Lowry. Amen would basically aimin and tay. You would
basically be the Siakam and the Ananobi on that team.
They don't really have a Kawhi. That's the only thing.
Like they don't have like a top five guy in
the world. But like then they have Shangun, who'd be
the Marcasol. Like there's a lot of it's not a
perfect comparison, but there's a lot of resemblance to how

(30:33):
that Toronto Championship team was built, except Amon Thompson was
twenty years old. Charlie Easton's w twenty one. Like, this
team is young enough that they could just continue to
build and have enough assets that they could do with
the Knicks did. Knicks made two moves. They did the
Michail Bridges deal, then they made the Cat deal. Houston
would still have Amimo to go get somebody else, potentially,

(30:54):
whether it be this offseason or later next year.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, and then Ny could also just be like, hey,
Sacramento kick Rocks, We'll stay with our core and then
we'll figure out what we'll get some money in off season,
because it's most likely there will be someone that is
going to be disgruntled once out and Houston's like, hey,
look like we're in Houston, you know we got all
these we got a lot of good young players. Hey,

(31:18):
and we could trade. We'll trade guys for you, and
we'll still have Amn Thompson and all these guys that
surround you with.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
What I will say, though, if I'm Houston's GM, I'm
very nervous that Okac and san Antonio are just gonna
be too Western Conference powerhouses during Wemby's prime. And okay, see,
obviously might be the next if I had to pick
a team to be the next dynasty will be. Okay,

(31:45):
Houston is very well positioned. So I don't want Rockets
fans to aggregate this and say, oh, that's even bag
Al said. You know it's gonna be supposed to It's
gonna be a three headed monster on the West with
those teams.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Even Memphis, I think is in fine shape.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, same reason why Memphis would want to go after
Jimmy Butler even as your gentle It's like, if you know,
Okac and san Antonio are gonna keep getting better, Like
if you're Houston, you just push your chips in and
go for it. Boss is not going away, The Knicks
aren't going away. Like there's just so many good you
just and it's the alternative that Okay, if I'm Houston

(32:21):
and I don't trade for Dmon Fox, I am scared.
Ship this is san Antonio does appeals him with Wembley.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
No, I'm with you. It might just be a situation
where you're like, hey man, we we we got to
do something because, like you said, OKC is not going away.
They got a nice young core. Wemby's on the rise,
you know, especially if they make a move to get
you know, Fox or something. It might be, you know,
situation where we're like, all right, let's take let's let's

(32:50):
let's do this, you know, because for us, we you know,
we don't want to be in the in that the
fourth best team in the West, because then we'll be
out in the second round every year. And then you know,
and then then guys gonna coming up for deals. You know,
as you know, they're gonna have some guys coming up
that they're gonna have to decide if they gotta pay,
if they're gonna pay long term. You know, Jayon Green
Jabari is a restricted free agent. You know, so some

(33:11):
things to figure out, and you know.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
San Antonio, you're not really getting any prime draft picks anymore.
Wenby is too good. The floor is too high for
san Antonio now full then together, like you know, a
top six pick unless he get some major lottery lock
with how deep the West is even their playing team
this year whatever it is, But like, how are you
gonna get the star alongside Wenby unless you trade for them?

(33:38):
No one's gonna even with cap space, who's gonna sign?
And same like I understand guy's going to play with Wenby,
but like what Paul George is the biggest free agent
to move in years, it's oh, by trade now stars
are moved.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
And now I was just gonna say that, like I
think even cap space can be a little bit overrated,
Like it's not like how it was and ten years ago,
where like, oh we're gonna we gotta say up cap
space for this free Agian class. Those free Asian classes
aren't like they used to be, you know, just ten
years ago. So like it's you've got to trade for
for your guy. You know, you gotta trade to get
your guy now, so you got to accumulate draft picks,

(34:13):
you know, and get some young talent to to be
able to make the deal to get that. And you know,
like I said, it's it's no longer that free agent
because there's not teams with cap space this upcoming season.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Brooklyn, Brooklyn, that's it.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
There's some teams will open up, they're always all but yeah,
significant cast spaces Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, Brooklyn, that's it. And there's not there's no free
agents that are going to be desirable like that.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
And maybe yeah, if I'm his agent, that's kind of
like the poinst On taking.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
You go to Brooklyn and if they give the money,
you know, but you know, no one that's like, all right,
this is going to be our de fact one guy
type of free agent, like we were going to clear
up cast space to get him. You know, no disrect
to BI. He's a great he's a great player, but
he's not that. But there's a.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Reason he's still on the Pelicans and not elsewhere.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
At this point.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
And I was just about to say that there's a
reason why he's still that he's not a desirable as
we heard from multiple sources, he's not a desirable option
right now. The reason why he's still on the Pelicans.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
The last thing I will say is I already lost
my thought. I had something that I was going with it.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Happens.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Oh, I got it. The d Aaron Fox trade package.
I'm telling you, Like if that Houston offered the one
I just told you happens, that is a generational type package.
D Aaron Fox trade package. It's gonna be an alms race.
It is going to be such a big bidding war
between Houston and San Antonio in my opinion, just because

(35:48):
of what the alternatives are.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
Like you don't know the next who's gonna be the
next start of your quest out.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Like the names.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, I mean like we don't know, we have no
idea m hm.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
So like.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
You have to go forward if you're Houston, you have
to go forward if you're San Antonio. And it's one
of those two teams are gonna give the godfather off
of the overpay to get it done. We got and
what we're gonna we'll go to look at that trade package.
This shame sweet is gonna come through and people are
gonna say, holy crap, Dean Fox went for that much

(36:23):
because it's two ascid rich teams that are ready to
push chips in and like it's it's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, And this is why you accumulate Olympics to make
to try to make a splash like this, and you
know it's good. It's gonna be It's gonna be an
interesting deadline to see where Jimmy goes, where the air
Fox goes. It looks like the most likely will be gone,
just a matter of where and how that shakes up,
either the East or the West.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
I would say the next start to request out, if
I had to bet, would probably be Joel Embiid. And
at this point I know about the six so soon
the knees and the contracts killed the hell out of me.
And even so, like san Antonio is not gonna want
to be because dam Wendy and like Houston with shang gun,

(37:12):
like oh you're gonna blow, Like that's not the move
you make, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, so let's talk about it.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
GI honest would be like the dream for everyone.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
So yeah, if they get bounced in the art, so
we'll go be honest.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
Is interesting if another first round exit healthy healthy, they're
both him and him and in him and Dame Lillard
are healthy and they get bounced in the first round,
because right now, what are they the third.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
The four seed, four or five?

Speaker 2 (37:46):
I think I don't have I know obviously, Boston, Cleveland
and Nixell one, two three.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Okay, so they're currently the four seed.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
The fact that that the f is miraculous given how
bad is.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Given a start there with it like two and eight
something like that. So right now they were played Indiana
in the first round, beats.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Them last year, and Indiana swept them in the regal
season last year.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
If they beat him again, if they beat him again
in the first round, that's the worst thing that could
happen to Milwaukee because I think I don't know if
it happens, but that I think you will start hearing
more rumblings that Giannis is going to want and that's
why maybe and that's what and you have to get

(38:32):
all the intel these teams. Maybe that you hear that
and you're like, okay, Fox is cool, but maybe do
we wait in case someone big like that, like a
true I'm not saying the other Fox is not a
game changer. He's a tremendous player, one of the best
guards in the NBA. But Giannis is literally you could
say he's the best player in basketball. If do you win,

(38:54):
that's the game you have to play in basketball. Right now,
it is like do we wait for me the big fish,
like the megalodon, or do we get you know, do
we get do we get the marlin? You know, and
like the Aaron Fox and be cool with them, but
regret that was available and we could have had him.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Could you imagine what Dmon Fox goes. Well, let's say
go see Houston and then Giannis becomes available. Okay, c
has so much there's just he's gonna if Ghanna's requests out.
I just don't see a ways go to Okay, I
just there's there are two assetrics I have way too.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
They could offer legitimately ten first.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Round picks plus young players, plus whatever salary matching they
need to get done without I think giving up Chet
or Jalen Wariams or Sgi. I think they would formerly
be able to have all three of those guys still
with Giannis.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
That would be interesting, man, that would be interesting. Well,
we'll see, We'll see. There's a lot, there's a lot
of a lot of stuff that could possibly happen, you know,
the this basketball season. Can I think it can change
the way in the next wave of what the NBA
is gonna look like. This season just could be a
real two game changer, kind of like with KD and sixteen.

(40:09):
I think it could be that type of game changing
potential offseason. But let's talk about the seventy six is
and we talked about Joel Embiid. He could potentially to
be a name on the trademarket. And it's been a
it's been an interesting season for this sis, right, it's
after they had a really bad start, play a little

(40:31):
bit better than struggled, and you know, on a little
bit of a streak. Now now luckily you're in the East,
so you're always in it. You're always have a chance
to make the playoffs in the Eastern Conference. But obviously
getting Paul George was the big move this offseason from
the Clippers. You know, Jared McCain, you drafted him. He
was he looked like he was gonna be the rookie
the year. Unfortunately out for the season. It's been a

(40:53):
tough year. Seventeen and twenty seven. Embiid has missed essentially
the whole season. He's been out the whole year. Paul
George's miss games. He and when he's played has not
looked like the two hundred million dollar player that you
invested in. You know, he's also a player's missed a
lot of time and it's getting older. You know, Maxi
has been you know, the bright spot obviously, so and

(41:14):
McCain was a bright spot before the injury. So what's
what's your take on the season so far? And is
it is a the well, just get I just wanted
a Philadelphia seventy six ers fan perspective on the season,
because obviously I'm a Knicks fan, so I don't you know,
I smirk that you guys are struggling a little bit,
you know, not gonna lie, but as a basketball fan,

(41:35):
it's just very intriguing just to like to see what
how this has not gone great? And just want to
get a Philly fans perspective of how they're feeling and
what do you think the direction is of this organization?

Speaker 2 (41:48):
What do you say? The record was seventeen, so that's
forty four games. If you told me, look, you guys
gonna sign Paul George, but through forty four games, l
and be is only gonna play thirteen of them, I
would say, Okay, then they'll probably you know, I would
say probably six seed in the East, maybe seven. I

(42:10):
wouldn't think eleven. But without Joel Embiid, Like, that guy
is so impactful. Every time you look at like the
on off numbers. That's why everyone they always prioritize backup
center for the Sixers because your on off splits are
so drastic. I don't think I don't think that's totally
because the backup center. Yes, the backup centers we have

(42:32):
have not been good, but Joel Embiid is just that
impactful when he's on the court, he alone makes you
a fifty win team if he plays, you know, sixty
five games. With him only playing thirteen games, I would
have told you we want to sort of change now. Obviously,
when you signed Paul George, the hope is Tyree Smacksy,

(42:53):
Joel Embiid Paul George. You have two of them playing
every night. You figure it out that just that just
hasn't been the case, mister shame, because then b they
just signed through this massive, massive deal on top of
what they paid Paul Geworge like and Bed's extension. I
don't know what went wrong because these are knee issues

(43:13):
that he's had that they've known about, but clearly the
team doctors signed off on him getting an extension like that.
There was no concerns about the knee. So that's where
I don't fully understand what the issue became. You know
what I'm saying, like, how how did they give them

(43:34):
the clearance to sign to an extension if you need
the knee? Was this bad? Essentially?

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, that's and he's thirty too, Like, he's thirty years old,
so like we know, centers, you know, just naturally it
starts to dip at after you get thirty because you know,
you're just he's just a large human being in general.
So then you you add on top of all the
injuries he's had throughout his career. Just remember he missed

(44:00):
the first two and a half years of his career,
you know, with foot injuries and stuff. So you know,
and but I'm just looking at his contract.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
It balloons to potentially seventy two million dollars in twenty nine,
in twenty nine to thirty seventy two million dollars.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yep it Let's let me see when and B one
MVP back in twenty twenty three. During that MVP year,
I said he has five prime seasons left if we're
luckie by saying I think five is a safe number
that gets him to age thirty two, and even if

(44:39):
we see a little bit of a drop off, because
even that MVP year he went twenty twenty twenty twenty one,
he was second MVP voting, then he got runner up
again to Yokicic, then he won. Then last year he
only played thirty nine games, but he probably if he played,
he could have went back to back.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
I said that, like he was on to win the.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
V even at the least he had four seasons when
he was a top two MVP finisher. I said, he
has five years left the year he won MVP, which
means he would have had this year and next year
and then maybe he would have declined and had one
more good enough year that you know, maybe he would

(45:21):
be the second federal to Tyrese Maxley. The Sixers are
luck either is good at drafting as they all because
if we have Tyree Smacksy and Jared McCain at picks
twenty one and sixteen, like I don't even like yeah,
like well they are god sense, Tyrese Maxley and Joel Actually,
as a Knicks fan, I don't know if you know this,

(45:42):
do you know the significance of why Sixes fans are
such fans of Mike muschalar because this is the sixths thing.
I don't think outside of Philly people know the significance
of Mike Muscala to the Sixers Award.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
I think I've heard about it, but I can't.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
So Mike Muscalo did play half the season for the
Sixers and ended up being traded to the Clippers and
the Tobais Harris deal. That's completely irrelevant to why we
are big Mike. He said he did this is that
same year, but Mike Uscala was on Oka. See we
had Okac's pick, but it was top twenty protected the

(46:19):
year they traded Russell Westbrook and they had like that
Chris Paul run as the five seed in the bubble.
If they lost, it came down to Game eighty two
and or whatever was in the bubbles, the last game
of the year. OKAYC had everything locked up for the
five seed. If they won this game, the Sixers got
the pick twenty one. If they lost the game, OKAYC

(46:43):
keeps the pick and Piala hit a meaningless shot that
allowed the Sixers to get picked twenty one, which became
Tyree Maxley. It was meaningless. They had everything locked up
the thought was, OKAYC is going to intention only lose this,
so they keep their pick. The game was meaningless. Mike

(47:03):
Ruskala hit a game winner that gave the six of
the pick that became Tyree Smacksley pick one.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
I remember hearing something about that.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
I remember, so not only do we walk into the
pick in a sense, and I always told my fiance,
I will forgive markel Folds if whatever we trade for
him becomes an all star of what he should have been.
We traded Markel Folts for that pick that became Tyree Smacksley,
So all is forgiven. Love markel Folds. Hope you know

(47:34):
he's able to rehabilitant. Oh my god, the Sixers showed
the sawenty five against the Lakers.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
I don't even want to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Oh but so what's your what you're feeling? Do you think?
Do you think do you think this this course days intact?
Is this something? Do we see a new team next season?
Or do we have to wait and see if they
can build some momentum and you know, get into that
top six and be uh, you know, and see how

(48:05):
you doing the playoffs, because listen, if everything, if they
can get everyone healthy you know, I know McCain's probably
gonna be out so that, but if they can get
Paul George to get back right, and they can get
you know Joelle right, I mean, they have the talent
to do something. So do we wait to the playoffs
or do you think, all right, none's gonna happen and

(48:26):
this this, this team's gonna get We might see a
whole different team next year.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
I don't think we're gonna see a whole different team.
What I will say is they are I think ten
million dollars over the luxury tax. So wouldn't shock me
if Daril Morey basically sold off enough to get under
the tax and just rolled with the team from there,
like Kyoshan Yabuselli. You don't have his bird Rice. He's
been phenomenal for us. He is he's he's third in

(48:52):
the team in total min X behind Naxi and Kelly Udre.
So that shows a little bit of how big the
disaster season was. That a guy who wasn't even in
the NBA last year and he's th third on the
team in minutes. But it's sures he's he's been phenomenal.
But if you could get a legitimate like first round
decent first round pick, which I can't imagine you do
because well, the trades one won't have his bird rates.

(49:15):
But if you get out of a three seconds for
him and then off load either kJ Martin or Kelly
Ubre to get under the tax and maybe get if
something like that, maybe that's as much as they do
when they running back next year. I think Kayla Martins
are too valuable of a contract eight million a year
for the next four years if you're through this year
to move off of him. Justin Edwards, as you know,

(49:38):
had the draft pedigree coming out of high school. He's start.
He's starting first right now against the Lakers, so I
think he's gonna be signed off his two way to
a standard deal. They will love to get Yabuselli back
if they open up like a mid level exception somehow
next year like Andre Drummond probably oppo. So I think
it's gonna be a very similar roster year because it's

(50:01):
a shame. Like if going to the earl is excited
about the sixer seam, not just because I'm a fan,
it was because, okay, they have they have a big
three that actually makes sense if healthy with the dominant
big Man uh at Onnick speedy point guard coming into
his crime and A three and D Wing and Paul
George and the core they had around them with Kayla

(50:24):
Marden and Kelly Oubre and Andre Drummond. And if you
told me, yeah, Bucelli was gonna be this good, like
if the pieces made sense.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
But if you told me jol Bean's only gonna play
thirteen games this point in the year, yeah, I would
have said there was no and Paul George only plays thirty,
I would understand. Okay, Well, something went disaster disastrously wrong.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
So I think they just can't.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Yeah, they're gonna tweak it again, maybe get under the
tax I think this is gonna be pretty much the
same team they have going into it next year. I
think you gotta commit to it.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
I think I'm with you there. I think you were
back one more year at least.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
This is the Alhof the thing you had that after
one year you knew you had to you.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Know, change just isn't that Yeah, that wasn't working, but
this could. I think you just got to run it
back one more year. I'm with you. I think you're
running back one more year and then after I think
after next season, I think you get a better feel
if this is working or not. This year obviously did
injuries and.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
All that they're playing. I still think they make the plan.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yeah, I mean did. Like I said, luckily they're in
the Eastern Conference because they're what seventeen and thirty seven,
I think they're only you guys are only a game
and a half out from Chicago, and we know how
Chicago is. They can bottom out easily because they can
have a deadline where Levine's no longer there and utrevit's
not there, so that can easily be you guys right there.
So and then once you get to play it, I mean,

(51:48):
those are winnable games and you can easily. I mean
Miami might not be in it because they Jimmy probably gone.
So there's definitely a chance to even get you know,
even get to the six top six and avoid the
play in. But we'll see. But a team that's on
playing good hoop right now and just absolutely obliterating teams,

(52:09):
you know, by scoring one hundred and forty points a game.
It feels like every night is the New York Knicks,
My New York Knicks. What's been your feeling from you
know Kat's you know presence coming to New York. You know,
obviously mckel bridges has been a lot better since that
early start, and I knew that would be the case
because obviously, you know, getting acclimated to be kind of

(52:29):
like the third or fourth option. It's that's tough being
a corner three guy. That's tough to be from being
like the number one option. Like, it's a tough, that's
a big that's a big gap you have to fill,
you know, and dropping out that from being a one
option through four. So the New York Knicks, they're thirty
one and sixteen right now. They got two All Star starters,
you know, Kat and Brunson made their first All start,

(52:52):
you know, being nominated to being All Star starters for
the first time. So how are you feeling about the Knicks?
I know it's I know you don't want to hear that.
You know you sent you. I can know you see
my gloating and my happiness right now. But you know,
what's your thoughts on the Knicks right now? Because it's
right now they're they're they're a game behind the two
seat in the Boston Celtics, who have been kind of

(53:13):
up and down these last you know, feels like months
and month and a half they kind of not played
the best of basketball. But you know, uh, and didn't
they lose yesterday? Right? They lost yesterday to Houston. They
lost to Houston yesterday. You know. So what's your feeling
about the New York Knicks right now? Do you think
they can have a chance to make a nice run?

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, I'm I like this New York Knicks squad. I
like them after you know, they made the moves for
Michel Bridges and cats, and honestly, I was a little concerned, given, Okay,
TIMPs is just gonna drug these guys into the ground,
which obviously I feel like that's the concern for a
lot of people, just because, like how many minutes all
those guys play. I'm looking at cleaning the glass. Knicks

(53:58):
starting five read the league in possessions in like total
as a lineup, those five guys on the court together
lead the league in possessions by how many How many possessions.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Do you think is number two? I know it's a
tough question.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
I'll say this Knicks have one fifteen hundred and eighty
one possessions and that's starting five together. The second most
in the league is Minnesota at one thousand and thirty two.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Minnesota starting five, So Knicks have over five hundred possessions
more than any other lineup has played together this year.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
And I think continuity matters. I really think continuity matters.
Third after that would be Houston starting five and eight
fifty seven. So the knickt one moves double. They're starting five.
There's only four lineups in the league that the Knicks
don't double in terms of possessions. They'll starting lineup has together,
which is bonkers.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
That's insane. I gotta put that in my next chat.
I gotta tell them that it's.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
It's Minnesota, Houston, and Sacramento starting five. Every other lineup
in the NBA the next double or more in terms
of possessions those guys play together.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
That's insane. That's a. That's absolutely And the fact that
you said that the Rockets at three, they're almost double
the possessions from their starting lineup.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
The Rockets are eight fifty seven possessions together nixt of
one thousand, five hundred and eighty one.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
That's that's a. That's hey, I said I said that
before the season. I said teams are gonna look at
the Boston model and be like, you know what everything
is about depth and all that. No, we need the
best starting five to match with Boston.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
But that's also a testament to how I hope you
they've been.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
That's me and you have to be Boston relatively lucky
for the most part that a lot of their guys
were healthy. And we know that. We know, well, how
many teams, I mean, you're going through right now with
your team, like, how many teams we know that have
missed out on being champions because they just weren't healthy.
Milwautin's been through it recently, you know they dealt with

(56:16):
then is being hurt and being bounced in the first round.
You know, so we've seeing it endless times and right
now the Knicks are knock on wood.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Yeah, help look at Boston's room. Last year they played
Miami with no Jimmy, then they played Cleveland and Domin
Mitchell got hurt. Then the Corps finals they played Indiana
and Halliburn and got hurt. Like sometimes it's comes down
to health. And for the next sake, thank god, you
know they've that's forces been on the side for that

(56:48):
real quick. Uh, you know I had to come along
and make some Knicks trade targets to you, yes, because.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Which is has been so hard for me because even
in our in our marketing, I'm like, who do I
try to guard? Who do I try to get? It's difficult.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
There's only really two guys. I feel like the Knicks
could move for, you know, something of substance, and that
has to be Mitch Robinson due to the salary of
the fourteen point three mil and it's probably Preciousahawa because
like again he makes six mils. So like a guy
in that rage next or five hundred thousand away from
the second ape and all the hard gaps.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
So like a guy, they don't want to be cooked
that that salary. So I think a dump ball.

Speaker 4 (57:33):
But like.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
I can't see them moving Precious because he's he's valuable. Yeah,
he's so valuable because he can you know, he's very versatile.
You know, he's not he's not Mitchell Robinson, but he
can on switches. You know, he's getting able to hold
his own and he's he's mobile enough to be able
to withstand on picking rolls and stuff. So but the

(57:57):
Mitchell Robinson is that. But it's like you look at that.
It's like he's he's gonna be, you be a valuable
piece to this team that's not getting a free agent,
and we could use him off the bench and being
you know, a rim protecting, you know, shop blocking big
you know. But do you move that? Because let's be
facing now, these teams will be on the second April.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Let me ask you.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
I have the list of trade targets for them. Do
you want to go through them real quick?

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yes? Shoot?

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Okay? Would you trade miss Robinson for Bobby Portters? Knowing
Bobby Porter's at least gonna be available and able to play.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Mmm, he's is uh, he can shoot the three ball.
Could use him off the bench because we don't have
anything like that. Man, Bobby p.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Again, you you may need to give up some seconds
just because of availability of Porters compared to me like that,
but like.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
That's like, yeah, it's close enough.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
That's tough.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
What about Robin Williams?

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Obviously, feel like Robert Williams is the same thing as
Mitch is like availability.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
But he's available right now. Mitch, we don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
I think you just have to you got to get
more intel on Mitch because it's been a weird, very
weird situation because there was multiple saying he might be
ready by November, he might be ready to December, oh
the new Year, it's it. It's gonna be February in
a few days. And he's still not close to being ready.

(59:31):
So and the red deadline is what a few days?
So like I don't know, I don't and I have
sort I know people who cover the team, and I'm like,
what's going on, and you just I don't know. They
don't know what's going on with Mitch. It's just a
weird situation. So well, Rob Williams playing is playing right now,
and obviously Portland has three bigs and they don't need

(59:52):
all them big, so.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
I have another pull then offer the knicks. If you
ask me what they need is they just need.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Some wing the bench and we see them had dues
and obviously if Mitch plays, have the backup big and
even if not, like Jericho has been fine, Precious has
been fine, but like I know, they just basically stagger
o g and bridges most of the time. But like,
sure every team.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Could use an extra wing exactly off the bench.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
What if they get Mittis's Bible and do up wreath
as the backup. Big wreath was phenomenal last year. He
hasn't played much this year because pulled bins as so
many has so many bigs. But you get thighble and
wreath for miss Robinson. Is that something that would appease you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
That's interesting, that's interesting because just get bodies at this point,
because we're gonna have to be going through you know,
if you want to be Boston, you gotta throw bodies
at them. So that's interesting. I wouldn't be but then
but then then Portland has four centers now.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Pulan tanking like that. It's just a salary. And I'm
sure they could.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
From one of the guys. They'll flip one of their guys.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
But if a I'm not the last guy I have
for Mitch Robinson deal, which doesn't make that much sense,
would be Jordan Cloxon, just because you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Already have Duce and you already have campaign, like you
already have so many gods off the bench, But Jordan
clox is still a little bit bigger than those guys,
a little more winging then those guys off the.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Bench, Like, would you flip Mitch Robinson for Jordan Cloxon?

Speaker 5 (01:01:34):
Mitch for Jordan Clarkson, ah Man another score. I'm just
trying to see how he fits because we I know
Tims loves playing his starters five.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
That's why like these would be depth moves. Like that's
why it's like I don't know, like how much would
Mattista Broiloski play on the next one. You already have
to bides Like it's like you don't need the primitive defense,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
And Clarkson will be Maybe I think Clarkson may be
soon more suitable in moderation. Yeah, then, because I don't
know if he's really a guy that you want to
play the amount of means to play in Utah, to
be honest. So maybe if you get him in a
more of in that twenty minute range, maybe you get
a better, ver more efficient Jordan Clarkson, And maybe that's

(01:02:26):
that's a better player for you for that will help you.
Then whatever he's playing, I'm sure he's playing good minutes
in Utah, but they suck. So it's like we didn't
Clark's I mean, be playing clarks Like you said, availability
right now is important and we don't know what Mitch is.
But that's the thing we don't know, what are they
going to trade for a guy who's hurt. It might

(01:02:47):
be off the season, like that said, we don't know.
I don't know, Mitch might be done for the season
for we know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Yeah, just why I think you consider basically all these
straits that I came up with because like you don't know,
Like again, health is on yourself. If you could get
an extra body or two, I think it's something you consider.
I also have four guys for a potential Pressosacha Wood deal,
which I know we said Pressures have been good, but
just in terms of matching salary, Malik Beasley would be

(01:03:15):
incredible for the next I don't know if de Froyd
even wants to move him at this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Point a crazy clip right now. It's like his shooting
splits are unreal. But I don't know Detroit, with the
way they're playing that they would they would load him,
you know, for precious right now because they have a
bunch of they got it, They got some uh you know,
some frontcore guys.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Yeah, there had to be multiple either multiple seconds. It's
basically the last few dead lines we've seen. Three or
four seconds is the new first.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Yeah, that's what you're seeing because people value second round
picks as much as they ever are done before.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
What about Simone Fintechio, who I think Detroit would move.
He would be phenomenal playing like seventeen eighteen minutes a
game off the next bench tech like six eight forward
shoots the three I think you would to add, you know,

(01:04:12):
a different element and again this bench doesn't have like
any wings of your forwards. But then like you're sacrificing precious.
So it's either you know Mitch is coming back and
flip Precious for all or you're putting a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Of j I think. I think the only way you
you trade Precious is if you know that Mi is
coming back healthy. But if it's not, I just think
that I think a Tua is just too valuable right
now as the essentially the back of big. I think
you need him unless you know you're going to get
another big somehow. But the big market is is expensive.

(01:04:49):
It's going to be expensive too, so you know, and
we just saw on what did Nick Richards go to Phoenix?
He went to Phoenix, you know, so that was a
target they had. But he's in Phoenix now, so that's
one less big and there's not a lot of valuable
bigs like that that are left. Nick Richards was was
one of them, and they didn't they weren't in on him.
So I think Pressure is valuable right now, very valuable.

(01:05:11):
And thank god they brought him back when they did,
you know, once rich hurt like we needed him, so
it was that was massive.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
So I have two more guys who are prescious seal
than I have one more target that is basically a minimum.
Hayward high Smith I think would be phenomenal if Miami.
You know, Teeter's more towards blowing it up, but again, Precious,
you'd have to. This is assuming does a contingency plan
for backup center. Hayward high Smith or John contral on Memphis.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Memphis.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
I would prefer Hayward high Smith out of the two,
but I think both of them could be pretty good fits.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
For for Pressures, right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Yes, I mean that the salary would work for Hey
what I think at five point two and Contras I
think it's six point one or something like that. Precious
is at six.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Yeah, and Contours hasn't been playing much right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Mephi's is so much depth, and honestly, they could probably
use another big with like Edie being out and Brandon
Clark coming off the torn achilles. So that's a I
think a realistic one. But again, you need a contingency
playing backup big. So may I offer you a koshn
Yabucelli who the Sixers may have to deal because they

(01:06:33):
don't have his bird rates and he's on a minimum.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Perfect and he.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
Could play alongside Cat, he could back up. That's what
he's been doing with Embiid the few games they played together.
He's either playing alongside drumming or Embiid, or he's the
backup or starting center. He plays a four or the five.
A little switchaball I. I wish the Knicks had a
first round pick to trade us. Well, yeah, because I

(01:07:00):
think it makes too much such football teams.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Yeah, we get we get a bunch of those in
the Michel deal.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
And then the remaining one was to the te Wolves
for Cats. I don't think you have that. What Washington won,
that's most likely gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Never super it's it can get invaded down like it's
protected have Blair will never We'll never see the light
of that pick. But yeah, man, exciting times in New
York right now. Were playing, you know, playing good ball
right now, and it's you know, starting five is really good.
And you know, I think eventually we're gonna see some
of the young guys get more run. I know. That's

(01:07:36):
one of the big thing, is how we're we're gonna
get that depth and we might just have it. We
just gotta We're just you know, we're just letting it,
just lending it grow. We're just waiting to let it blossom.
I think it's a time. I think Colic is someone
we're gonna see more down the line. You know, because
even if it was just even yesterday, if you just
see some of them flashes, he has the passing like

(01:07:57):
that pass we had to deduce was. I was more
impressed by the pass and the dunk. I'm a big
cold guy. I thought he was a top twenty guy.
He had a top twenty on my board. You know,
this guy was a phenomenal at Marquette, let you know best.
He was the leading assist guy in the country last year,
you know, you know, like he was phenomenal on Marquette,

(01:08:17):
you know, and and doing it against top tier talent too.
It wasn't just you know, he was doing against top
tier guys. So you know, give respect to him. I
think he's gonna get more run, you know. So I
think you're gonna see, you know, pacomb is gonna, I think,
eventually get more. You know, he's super young, so but
I think he will see him getting more down the line.
So I think eventually the young guys in the Knicks

(01:08:38):
will help and then we'll see and then hopefully we
get Michie back, which comes back. I think that'stead of
be that's not getting a for Asian man. It's like
getting a for Asian so and I would be he'll
probably have come off the bench. He's done it before,
and that that's a that's massive. To get a guy
that a starting center coming off the bench like that,
that's that's huge. And I just so I'm I'm liking

(01:09:00):
where they're going right now. I'm liking where they're going
right now. Feels good. You know, Uh, defense can get
a little you know, we've got to tighten up a
little bit on defensive, least on the perimeter. Sometimes we
can get We'll have those games where we play Chicago
and the Chicago just goes off on us and it's
just those weird games that happen. You know, but uh,
we're all overall excited. I think. I think if you're

(01:09:21):
a fan of that makes you're feeling good right now
because it could be no offense stive. We could be
you guys. You know, you guys were us for a
long time exactly exactly. We've been there. We don't want
to get back. We won't be back there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
I will say this New York front office not only
is done a phenomenal job with like the riddle moves
around the edges, like the way they were able to
construct mckel bridges, it's still been able to acquire kality
towns after that, like these little nuances, but also like
the foresight they had, like signy Jalen Bohnson to the

(01:09:54):
deal they signed to when here's a backup point guard.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
Sybride for four and a half million dollar?

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Was you wh and he was not good when they
signed him to that?

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
Hey, ju just McBride is one of the best contracts
in the NBA.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Now because right now on the market, if he would
have been, if he would be a free agent right
now and go on the market, he's getting ten mil
a year more than that and they got him for
three and a half per or whatever it want, something
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
So they've done a phenomenal job at next run office.
That's your credit where.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
It's still exactly and I'm not used to it. We're
not used to Knicks fans were not used to competent
front office. And they're just they're making moves to help
us get to where we ultimately want to be, and
that's to be in the NBA finals and find the
Jalen Brunson. I mean that that started started off. And obviously,
you know, I'll give I know a lot of people
don't like Julius Randall, but you got to give him

(01:10:47):
credit where credit is due, because he helped you know,
when it was it was all bad, he came here
and he became a two time All NBA player here,
So you know that had those pieces helped build to
what we're at now. And now we're gonna just keep
going and hopefully, you know, maybe at a piece, you know,
at the deadline and then you know, get the younguns
you know, up to date and and get them more
run and hopefully Mitch Robinson comes back and then we'll

(01:11:09):
see what happens. But you know, we got we got
some tough teams out of us in Boston and Cleveland
to battle with and you know, still can't. You still
got to worry about the Milwaukes and stuff behind you.
But overall, man, it's uh, it's it's exciting times in
New York. But Dave, my man, it was a pleasure
having you on the pod, brother, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
Pleasure is all mine. Obviously we talked all all the time,
whether it's college NBA, so I couldn't pass up the opportunity,
you know, to especially trade deadline, you know, like that's
when that's when I'm feasting. It is a trade deadline
like that in the off season with like the salary
cap and yeah, trade technicalities and CBA.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
Oh my god, the Lakers put Johnny James in Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
He just he thinks we timed it perfect it. But
before we sign off the what projects you got going on?
Tell the people where they can find you on social media.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Wellever you listening to this podcast, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Go
listen to the Bird Raids podcast. Go listen to One
and Done College basketball podcast. Go read my work at
the center Hub. It's vdek centerdash hub dot com, and
you can follow me on Twitter at the Underscore NBAGLE
as NBA G E L L again, go follow the

(01:12:26):
mock trade deadline. We have the hashtag hashtag tch mock
trade Deadline twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
It's long on every trade that we made. You could
see there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
I have phoned a little bit behind on posting them,
but I've they I'll be posted by the time the
actual trade deadline. We're trying to do a trade deadline
live show during that whole day next Thursday, so that's
something that I will be promoting, assuming we coordinate that.
But otherwise, Chris, I appreciate you taking the time to
have me on.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Yeah. Man, you do a good job with that. But
that trade deadline stuff that read, I mean, it's it's fun,
it's it's you know, just the way it has it's
it's a nice little subject. So good good job, and
you do do good. You do great work overall with
everything you do, you know, with the cap stuff and
covering you know, college basketball the way you do and
just being so just so just so locked in into it.

(01:13:17):
So that's why I respect everything you do and uh,
continue success with everything you do. Brother, I'm always rooting
for you, so make sure to follow my all socials
I'll put a post that all in the descriptions on
the podcast and on the YouTube. And on that note,
make sure to follow me at Off the Ballpod on
on all social media platforms on Instagram x Facebook, make

(01:13:40):
sure to follow UH subscribe on on Google, on Google Podcast,
whatever podcast platform you know, Spotify, h Apple Podcasts, and
make sure to subscribe to it off the Ble network
YouTube page. As we get closer to six hundred subscribers,
so UH pod will be dropping soon. Make sure sure
appreciate everyone who supports off Wall podcast. Make sure to

(01:14:02):
check out to get a bucket podcast. We'll hopefully get
Steve on there and talk to college basketball soon. We'll
get him on that one with me and my co
host keV look So. On that note, guys, thank you
for listening, enjoy, be safe, take care, peace out