Pt_ 2 of Out of Place Artifacts _Revisited_ a brief wrap up of Border Town Paracon 2025 and more!

Pt_ 2 of Out of Place Artifacts _Revisited_ a brief wrap up of Border Town Paracon 2025 and more!

Mark, Pam, and Enzo!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Have you ever wondered what was out there in the
night sky, stared up at the stars in the hopes
of seeing something.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Out of the ordinary.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Have you heard unexplainable noises coming from a vacant room
or watched the shadow across the wall in front of you.
Have you asked yourself if there's life after this one,
or if you had life before? What about strange creatures
that are mythical and elusive? Have you experienced dejouvu or
felt a prompting to leave because you felt you were
in danger.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
If you have, you were on the fringe.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hello, welcome to another wonderful episode of On Fringe. I'm Mark,
I'm Pam, and our guest and Zo. Yay audience.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yes, hundreds and hundreds millions of people watching this all
over the globe right now.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
Well, I mean some people all over the globe are
watching us.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
We're certainly on a watch list.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, I'm sure somebody is watching us, you know, to
see how much trouble we're going to be in later.
Do you have of making you yeah, yep, yeah, all right,
So well tonight we're going to uh finish up our
little bit that we had left of our outplates. Artifact

(02:03):
show that we did a couple of weeks ago, which
got delayed because a certain someone might have injured herself
quite badly. So we're not gonna name names.

Speaker 5 (02:24):
I do not want you talk about.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
The clutch. Gene is real.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
It is the fall season, and she took it letter.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
So yes, yes, And so if anybody would like to
donate rolls of bubble.

Speaker 5 (02:40):
Wrap, yes, I'm not going to argue with that.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
That's what We're just gonna start wrapping her up in
bubble wrap before she's allowed to leave the house.

Speaker 6 (02:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
How many times has it been that you've taken a
spill and broke something in the last couple of years.
It's like once a year now it no, I any
other year.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
Every other year. Alcome a couple of years.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Ago, Oh my goodness.

Speaker 5 (03:09):
And then yeah, I broke the tar.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Out of my leg this time and doing the same
thing I.

Speaker 5 (03:15):
Think, Yeah, yeah, tripped on a map.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Tripped on a rug.

Speaker 5 (03:21):
First time, I went backwards and planted my hand and
broke my elbow. And this time I don't know what
I did that did not work.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
Out a lot of gravity right around fan.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Jeez, Pam has achieved the singularity.

Speaker 5 (03:43):
Yeah, I did. I did a number on it so
unfortunately put him out of the hospital doing well, Yes.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Very happy, Yes, uh so. And we're also going to
have a short wrap up for our border Town pair
five or a good time was had? A time was had?
Anyway had? Yes, a time was had. Overall, it went pretty.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
Well, it did. It was fun. We had record people
come through the door this year, which we were super
thrilled with, and had some excellent presentations and a lot
of people, a lot of return vendors and friends, and
like Robert said, Robert Pravo, it's it's more of a

(04:39):
family reunion with family you actually like than it is
a convention. So he's I would agree with him on that.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yep, Yeah, yeah, I would say that's pretty accurate. A
lot of these people I wish I could see more
than just once a year for a per con and
some of them we do. We've met some of them
at Geneseo and we've gone up there and we had, uh,
we had a lot of people who we've seen at

(05:08):
both places. Uh. Kansas really, even though they're small, has
a lot of events that uh you know, are within
an easy drive for us. Now granted, Kansas is the
size of some countries, so what we consider a short

(05:30):
drive other people would consider odious.

Speaker 5 (05:33):
That's okay, Yeah, well we're getting Mark, you and your
wife are coming to Arkansas Expo, and I'll be there too.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Actually we will. We will be skipping Arkansas because, uh,
the long drive. It's it's a trip to do something
a little shorter that weekend.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
But it's it's it's it's quite.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
What is it for five hours each way?

Speaker 5 (06:02):
Oh no, no, no, it's like I don't even know.
I don't think I was saying it was like three
three and a half.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
Hm, when is that? In case people are interested in going, it.

Speaker 5 (06:16):
Is the let me look at the thing here. It's
the twenty fifth and twenty sixth of October and it's
in Fort Smith or not Fort Smith. I'm so sorry,
Little Rock, Arkansas.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah, it should be good. It's always This.

Speaker 5 (06:32):
Will be the third year that I've gone, and I
really like it. I go with the Monk with the
other podcast and we usually live stream from it. It's
it's a lot of fun. There's some big names. I
know Ken Gearhart, he's been in the Cryptid world. He'll
be there as well as Lyle uh, I lost his
name Blackburn, Lyle Blackburn. He's also a big name in

(06:54):
the cryptied world. He'll be there, and yeah, there's some
fun people. Heather is hosting again and she actually last
year started. If you watch Expedit Josh Gates Expedition ex
the new girl on there, Feather, that's her. She's super nice. Yeah,

(07:18):
she's hosted every year. Her mom's the one that actually
got the expo started, and then Heather's the one that
kind of steps up and helps her out quite a bit.
So it's worth going to. It's fun.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
You'll have to get me an autograph of Heather's. I
love that show.

Speaker 5 (07:39):
I'll ask her.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (07:41):
Fun. See, she wasn't allowed to tell We weren't allowed
to tell anybody last year because it was a hot
show came out and this year we can talk about it.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
So yay, kind of cool.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
Genuine celebrity. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
So uh yeah, pair Con went pretty good this year.
Record turnout. Yeah, it wasn't a lot more, but it
was more.

Speaker 5 (08:10):
Yeah, it was enough to claim it. It was record
because it was the must we've had.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
So yeah, it most. We actually did quite a bit
better on the public coming in this time. We did
then we did a lot of other years, but it
all evened out quite a bit. I'm looking forward to
next year. I think it's going to be swell. We're

(08:37):
gonna have a lot more options for next year, so
I'm excited to explore all that.

Speaker 5 (08:44):
Uh yeah, we did have and our record turnout did
not include the lovely people that were across the street.
We did not count those. Yes, I appreciate the fact
that they cause more people apparently to be interested in
what we were doing and for next year, yeah, come

(09:06):
in and check it out.

Speaker 4 (09:08):
The streisand effects. Certainly, it's like, what are all those
people protesting?

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Go over there?

Speaker 4 (09:12):
What's going on? Actually that sounds kind of cool. I'm
gonna go check it out.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah. I've had several, uh, several people who had it
brought to their attention that are planning to come next year.
They just didn't have enough notice. But yeah, so it
it was like I was telling Pam earlier, there is
no bad publicity. There is the publicity that you pay

(09:37):
for and free publicity, and yeah, you can't pay for
that sort of thing.

Speaker 5 (09:43):
I have. We have another reason to thank them too.
While I was in the hospital is when we found
out that they were thinking about doing that, and it
pissed me off enough that I spent my time in
the hospital filing our five oh one C three nonprofit
organized sation paperwork, and our determination letter came in. We
are official.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yes, yes, good.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Job you.

Speaker 5 (10:10):
Thank the protesters too.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, they got a software, but they did except.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
That we were wanting to do for a while, and unfortunately,
I had a lot of spare time on my hands.
So fortunately or unforfortunately.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
I think about war on my phone out trying to
keep up with all the text. I don't know how
you text so fast. I didn't. My god, they got
a sentence and I've got like five new paragraphs.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
I am certainly the hunt and pick one letter at
a time kind of thing.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
Yep, yep, yep.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
Thanks Chris.

Speaker 5 (10:54):
We finally get to hear about the great Katie Kansas.
I'm not even going to try to pronounce that event. Yes,
we're glad you got to uh into some video. Unfortunately
not all of it, but some of it.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Well we just get to recycle it.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
You got a shout out for me during my presentation,
as brief as it was.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, so, I mean we we did have a small
catastrophe that ended the show a little bit early. Uh.
The venue had been struck by lightning a few weeks ago,
for a few weeks prior, and unbeknownst to them, it

(11:38):
had blown out a bunch of the fasteners they hold
the roof on, right next to the guttering and the ceiling.
It's not even tile, uh, insulation because it is a gymnasium. Yeah,
filled with water. And well it actually burst. Fortunately it

(12:04):
was on us. We were all adults because nobody under twelve.
We usually don't have We've got an age limit of
twelve and up because some of the some of the
things we talk about, we don't want to expose children
to it. And we also don't you know, we're not

(12:27):
babysitters either, right.

Speaker 5 (12:31):
But.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
In normal circumstances, there would have been probably a practice
going on and kids or parents sitting on bleachers right
underneath where that burst. And wet insulation in your lungs
does not sound like a fun way to spend the
rest of your day.

Speaker 5 (12:53):
No, And it it fell on one end of the
auditorium or the gym and actually or in installation, came
clear up to where I was live streaming, which was
on the opposite side of the.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Gym, nearly clear across, nearly clear across the building. So
it was it was interesting. Like I said, fortunately, Uh
it was you know, an adult uh centric event and
there were no children to be harmed.

Speaker 5 (13:26):
And yeah, and what we what we do is we
move those risers off to the side and then we
had put our raffles and things up in that area.
So had it had there been a game or anything
else going on, someone definitely would have gotten injured because
that's where people sat when things are going on. So yeah,
we're thankful event and not during anything else. Stuff can

(13:51):
be replaced.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
We don't can be replaced. People cannot. People can.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
I prefer to think of it as uh the borders
On Para con now has its own flood myth like
many other cultures.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
That's true. That's true. That's that's a nice segue because
we're going to be talking about blood myths and stuff.
But any anyway, Uh, get on and go to border
Town Strange and we've streamed uh most of the day

(14:30):
and there's a lot of interesting things going on.

Speaker 5 (14:34):
There's a whole day set up free, So yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
It's free, just like the pra con our stream is free.

Speaker 5 (14:42):
There's some interesting things that happened that day that we've
talked a little bit about publicly. We've talked about it.
But right before the ceiling failed or insos presentation, and
right before it did, the big screen TV that we
have setting to do the presentations on, which had performed
beautifully all day, no hiccups, no anything, blinked out, blinked

(15:06):
back on, and then the deluge occurred. So that was
really strange.

Speaker 7 (15:14):
So in younger drywall insulation, it's good referencing the younger
uh ritis uh event which happened about twelve thirteen thousand
years ago, which is basically the Great Flood.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
So which we will be discussing.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
We will be discussing that. Thank you, Ian.

Speaker 5 (15:48):
So yeah, just strange.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Him on the show sometimes. Oh great, I bet he's
a gas he's gas on here. I'll have to get
his contact information one of these days and just see
if you'll get on here, just just for one of

(16:13):
our fun shows.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
Do that for Halloween and be like a trick or
treat thing. Guests from our audience can even be in
costume if they wanted to remain.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
All right, So out of place artifacts we talked about
quite a few last time we were on And what
have you got Forrest Pamer? Would you like me to
start it?

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Let me see, my god, I can real quick, okay.

Speaker 5 (16:52):
Okay, So this one was interesting. You know, we see
a lot of things, you know, and a lot of
flat irons or iron nails, things like that embedded in coal.
This one I ran across. It was kind of interesting.
It's a spiral shaped object embedded and coal, and I

(17:13):
have a picture of somewhere here it is. I am
having major computer malfunctions today.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Well, I mean, if we went a show without having
some technical difficulty, right, we'd be about thirty years younger.

Speaker 5 (17:44):
I'll tell you what driving me nuts? Okay. So this
was found embedded deep within a coal seam in southern Illinois,
and it's as you can see, it's a spiral shaped object.
And it was reportedly discovered in the early twentieth century
and has since. You know, it really caused a lot

(18:05):
of controversy when it was found. The surrounding coal bed
is ustimated to be over three hundred million years old,
and which as you know, long predates any no man
made metal tools. The upper image that shows what resembles
to be like a metal auger bit or a drill
bit that's very deep within the black shell, and you

(18:28):
can tell it looks new, it doesn't look like it's
you know, been there very long. And then below it
is the scale of excavation that reveals just how deep
this thing was found. Right, So if it is genuine,
it would definitely defy any current understanding that we have

(18:50):
of technological timelines. So, I don't know, what do you
guys think. I think it looks a little too good
to be true.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yeah, it looks a little newer than I would expect.
But I mean, we're going to talk about the iron
pillar of Delphi and it looks brand new and it's
been there for thousands of years. So I don't know.
And you know, and we talked about last time. There
are these theories and coal doesn't necessarily take billions of

(19:21):
years or millions of years to form. Yeah, there there's
a lot of evidence right now that suggests that like
natural gas and petroleum products could be formed by the
interaction of the heat from the Earth's crust with the
upper layers of the between the layers the crust, and

(19:45):
it's actually something that would happen with or without you know,
giant die offs of of dinosaurs.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
Or you know lappened because you said that very cans
and accent on dinosaurs flowers.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, well see I recently watched everyone's favorite Jurassic Park,
and I just channeled the little the little cartoon thing
that they sayd the dinosaurs.

Speaker 5 (20:24):
I love it. It's awesome. Yeah, that's that's a good
one to start us out with. Anyway. So yeah, we're
talking about the iron pillar.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah, I think I've got an image here.

Speaker 5 (20:36):
Possibly Sylvain's in the chat high Sylvain.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Oh yeah, let's see if I can find that picture
of the Oh I am.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
And it's asking how deep that was found?

Speaker 5 (20:55):
Pam, let me double check here, h m m hmmm.
Oh my gosh, so it was found. I want to

(21:26):
say it was found like here, let me pull the
picture back up because I'm really bad at measurements, so
you can see. Did it come up? It didn't come up?

Speaker 3 (21:41):
Did it?

Speaker 5 (21:42):
Oh? I didn't? Hang on?

Speaker 3 (21:45):
Oyay?

Speaker 5 (21:54):
Oh Mark, can you pull that up for me? Sorry,
that's the problem. Okay, see where the guy's standing. That's
how about how far down they found it? Maybe?

Speaker 4 (22:09):
Where was this again?

Speaker 5 (22:10):
What part of the world? Yeah, yeah, this was pretty
local to us, honestly, not too far away.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
That's a tough one. It really does look like it's
brand new, and they just kind of picked that up
at Low's and kind of jammed it into a scene
there and took a picture of it.

Speaker 5 (22:38):
It does. I would like to know more about it,
like how it was discovered.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, that would be really there's just a lot of
information that we don't have about them. That looks like
a fairly modern you know, that looks like an eighteen
hundreds augur bit that you know, you'd haven't a bit
and a brace, you know.

Speaker 5 (23:05):
Yeah, yeah, that you would do by hand.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah. Man, my computer is not cooperating with me today either, Bama.

Speaker 5 (23:17):
Sorry, must have shared.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
So.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
Yeah, and it's looking like it might have been eighteen
to twenty feet deep that they found it.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
All right, I've got an image of the iron pillar
of Delphi or Deli there is so hold on. Yeah,
I've become technologically illriate. I think I rotted my brain

(23:51):
trying and get this new camera set up so well.
I mean, it could be argued in my brain was
rotten before that.

Speaker 5 (24:00):
So you're in good company because I'm struggling I'm on
the struggle bus today.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
For sure we go. Here is the iron pillar of Delphi.
DELI sorry it is, uh, let me look at my numbers.
Here it is ninety nine point seven two percent iron,
and it is it's fifteen hundred years old, but could

(24:35):
be older? Are they? They know it's at least fifteen
hundred years old, which would be four hundred years ago
before uh the largest known foundry of the world could
have produced it. So four hundred years before there was
a foundry big enough to cast that big of a pillar. Now,

(25:00):
modern wrought iron can be made with a purity of
ninety nine point eight percent, but it contains manganese and sulfur,
which are absent in this pillar. So it is.

Speaker 5 (25:17):
Now is this where it was originally found or was
it moved to this location?

Speaker 3 (25:21):
I believe it was has been there an inscription from
about four hundred eight by King uh Jan drug group.
I'm going to just not even try. I'm going to
offend somebody with my butchering of their language.

Speaker 5 (25:41):
So because I can't pronounce anything either.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
Four hundred eight is when that inscription was and so,
but we don't know if the inscription is the same
age as the pillar or not, you know, because people
have a tendency. Oh this is cool, I'm going to
claim it by putting my stuff on it.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
Right.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
We see that a lot in Egyptian things, where they've
taken the original original name off and somebody else's claimed
credit for it, you know, because that's just how things
are done. We see politicians doing it today. So I mean,

(26:30):
it should not come as a surprise to anybody. I'm
sorry if you are a politician, but you know, your
predecessors and your peers have given you all a bad name,
and I apologize, but it's just the way it is.

(26:54):
So I mean, that's that's pretty crazy. And then there's
been actually quite a bit of ironware that has been
found that doesn't make sense. Now. A lot of people
want to talk about the the Viking soul Sword of Burt,

(27:21):
but it can be reproduced with medieval technologies, with techniques
that weren't supposedly known then. But you know, they've found
jersey knit in ancient Egyptian digs, hundreds of years before

(27:48):
jersey knit was ever supposed to have existed. So it
could very well have been some master blacksmith who came
up with a way to forge it this way, and
then when he was gone, it got forgotten. Stuff like

(28:09):
that happens. We still don't know how to make Toledo steel,
and we have very good examples of Toledo steel in museums.
Nobody knows exactly how Toledo steel was made. So and
that's fairly modern. That's just a few hundred years ago.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
This, yeah tower or whatever we're calling this, it's Is
it the purity of the iron? Why it doesn't rust?

Speaker 3 (28:40):
You know, I don't know, that's the question.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
And I'm sure, yeah, even after even if it's only
fourteen hundred years old. As I recall from all the
articles about it, there's no form of oxidation on it anywhere.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Just light surface oxidation. Yeah, and it's not modern steel
would have rotted away into nothing long. Yeah, modern iron,
So maybe it was the pure My information doesn't say
what the other percentage of materials is in that.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
Nickel, because I'm guessing it was a meteorite they made
this one.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
It could have been. I mean nickel and is one
of the things we put in stainless steel to make
it stainless. Although it's hardly stainless, it does rust. I've
seen plenty of rusty stainless steel. It's just more rust resistant.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
Yeah, it takes a long time.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
It does take a long time. But I mean I
also was a bachelor and left stainless steel in the
sink for much longer than it should have been. Yeah, yeah,
so I mean I will surely not mm hm. You
know it was a bachelor. How things are done.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
But even like a cast iron pan that you know,
you may have had for generations, it'll still you have
to keep up with it. You have to, you know,
keep the seasoning on there so it doesn't rust and
get carried away. Whereas this tower or pole or whatever

(30:38):
we're calling it, it doesn't have any of that stuff.
It's just been sitting out there for well almost fifteen
hundred years. And maybe somebody comes out and puts a
little Scotch bright on it every once in a while, maybe,
But that's that's even that stuff.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yeah. And when you look at the the filigree stuff
at the top, it's it's in pretty good shape. It's sharp,
and the the inscriptions are sharp.

Speaker 5 (31:13):
I believe something could be that old and only have
one of them, you know, because if they had the
ability to create these things looks like they would have
made a whole bunch of different things that would have
been found about that same thing.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
And why would it just be one? I mean, what
what was its purpose? I mean, was there a light
at the top or you know, you would maybe expect
maybe a series of them holding up something else, you know,
is that kind of a you know, like you Greek
pillars and stuff like that. But just one.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Information on that one to really even if anything, it
is just interesting that it's known to be at least
that old, and it's such an astoundingly good shape. Yeah,
I mean I've seen andya is not necessary. It's not
all that dry. There's plenty of there's monsoons and whatnot.

(32:15):
I guess there are some dry regions in India so h.
But in any case, even even stuff we've left out
in the desert, it rusts. I mean, it doesn't last
all that long. Things that is just a few decades old,

(32:38):
you know, are almost can be found that's almost unidentifiable.
And then again it can be like while back they
found a rifle leaned up against a tree that had
been there for over one hundred years. Yeah, the tree,
and it was in pretty good shape. It was probably fireable.

(33:04):
They were smart enough not to try.

Speaker 4 (33:06):
But you know, little fire once you may as you
may get more damaged than you would actually whatever you hit.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
So yeah, that and you know that's eighteen hundred metallurgy.
That was pretty good. But it's not that good, right, So.

Speaker 5 (33:33):
Interesting? I have one that I think might be a fake.
Do you guys want to see it?

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Oh? Yeah, let's look at a fake.

Speaker 5 (33:41):
I'm pretty sure it's probably a fake, but it was.
It was in with the others, so I thought it
would be a penland to breen. Why is it making Oh?
I keep thinking why is it not popping up? Because
I'm not running streamyard? That's so long. This is the
Coso spark plug. The Coso geode is what they call

(34:03):
it now. This one was found in nineteen sixty one
Wally Lane and Mike Mike Sell in Virginia, Maxi. These
guys are co owners of the L M and V
Rock Hounds gym and gift shop in Atlantia, California. They
went into the Coso Mountains, which is like six miles

(34:23):
northeast of Alancha, to look for unusual rocks for their shop,
and they were up near the top of a four
thy three hundred foot peak that overlooked the dry bed
of Owen's Lake, and they found this fossil encrusted geode.
So you know, they put it in their bag with
all their other cool stuff to take back, and when
they were back at the shop, Mike takes his diamond

(34:45):
saw blade which he cuts open geodes with, and he's
just cutting through things. Well, he hits this particular geode
and it ruins his blade trying to get through at
number one. And when it comes apart, they realize that
whatever is in and it is not geode, you know,
it's something else. So they didn't know what to do

(35:07):
with it. The middle of the geode it had this
metal core in it. It was about zero or point zero
eight inches or two millimeters in diameter, and it was
enclosed in what appears to be a ceramic collar as
you can see here. So they took it to have
an X ray, and the X rays made them think,

(35:30):
you know, this is a spark plug, right, So they
ended up in nineteen sixty three they displayed this for
like three months at the Eastern California Museum in Independence,
and Wally Lane apparently took possession of it at that time,
and in nineteen sixty nine was reportedly offering this thing

(35:50):
for sale for twenty five thousand dollars. According to the
estimate of a geologist that was unnamed in the original report,
the age of geode, based on the fossils that it contains,
was some five hundred thousand years. No examination by a
professional scientist or scientific organization is on record, though, so again,

(36:14):
you know, this was this unnamed geologist that gave this
this uh offering of what he thought it was. Yeah,
I don't know. I I think that uh, I think
they faked it, but.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
I don't know made it disappear and they made it.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
Does it hope to get some money out of it,
And when they were getting found out, they disappeared it.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
I mean that that can happen. And once again, sometimes
these if it's got a lot of calcium in it,
sometimes that stuff forms a lot faster than you think
it would.

Speaker 4 (36:49):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
I mean, I've seen calcium deposits build up, honestly in
my sink. But I've also seen calcium deposits.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
Build up around that stalens, the old fan that you
had left in.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
There right right, uh, around stuff in just a few decades,
just left outside in the right place. So, I mean
it could happen, and that's.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
Worth the water you have in the area. Hard water,
you know, you'll get deposits a lot faster.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Well, if you've got limestone and water running through limestone,
you're gonna get limestone deposits as big as your fist,
you know. So Ian has a very good has one
about the pillar. Maybe they perfected the first one and
decided we'll never get better than this. That's the only
one we'll need, lads. It's more likely is like, my god,

(37:38):
how much iron are we going to have to have?

Speaker 5 (37:43):
That?

Speaker 4 (37:44):
Hard? Retire as the master blacksmith. This is my crowning achievement,
so I don't have to build another one.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Yeah, I one of those two is probably about right.
Or like, sorry, you've emptied the treasury making this one.
We can't finish your building. Yeah, the treasury is empty.

Speaker 5 (38:08):
That's funny. Yeah, what do you guys think? You think
it's fake? I think it's fake.

Speaker 4 (38:15):
I mean, just looking at the rock that it's embedded in. Uh,
it's obviously a conglomerate of different rocks kind of smushed
together there. That and plus that seems like a really
big spark plug. I don't know what that would go to.

Speaker 5 (38:37):
When you look at the size of the hand holding,
it isn't that.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
Yeah, it's pretty pretty sizable. So I'm not sure what
kind of thing that would go to.

Speaker 5 (38:45):
Uh, And.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
I don't know, just I would think there'd be some
kind of like markings on it. It's sort of you know,
just looking at it in this one picture you can
sort of see where it's not. It's all kind of
crooked and smashed together. It's I don't know. That's a
tough one to accept.

Speaker 5 (39:07):
Yeah, it is, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yeah, I I don't have a dog in this fight,
but I'm going to say it is. It is either
faked or misidentified, something modern that's gotten gotten this conglomerated
rock to form around it. Because it's got chunks in there.

(39:32):
It looks almost like concrete concretions, that's what they call them. Yes,
which can happen underwater. I mean, we've seen stuff that's
just a few hundred years old, you know, we bring
up shipwrecked stuff. Is just the minerals have created this,
basically a fossil of it in just a couple hundred years.
So I mean, when was the first spark plugs, I

(39:56):
mean early eighteen hundreds have been some somebody's attempts to
uh make a replacement or something. It didn't work and
it tossed it, and this happened to it. Yeah, I
don't know. It could go either way.

Speaker 5 (40:16):
It's interesting though, and so maybe they both rather like
Mother Shipton's cave, they're always cassifying bits and bobs up there.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:25):
Yeah, just your standard stalactite stalagmite type formation. Just that
that limestone in the water, just slowly adding layers and
layers over a couple of hundred years. You've got this
giant monstrosity, and it happens to these to chuck one
of these.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Depending on you know, the the pH of the water
and the limestone and whatnot, you could be looking at decades. Yeah,
so I mean, yeah, they had to.

Speaker 5 (41:00):
I would say they would have had to have just
happened upon this though, because that's a long game. You know,
let's put this and see what happens. You're gonna at
least you know, I don't know how many years it
would take, depending on the circumstances.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
I would say at least decades.

Speaker 5 (41:18):
Yeah, it would definitely be more than like a year
or five years. So I don't understand what the long
game would have been unless it was to try to
get the twenty five thousand, or.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
It is something like plaster or concrete mixed up with
these rocks. Yeah, you know, because concrete, if it ages right,
it looks like it may be some kind of weird natural.

Speaker 5 (41:41):
Maybe this was like their first attempt to see if
it would if people would buy it, you know, be
swallow the and then they would have made more.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Maybe so maybe so, Well, who knows what we'll find
at the bottom. I mean, look, we're in Kansas. We
have limestone running out to the Kazoo, So what are we
gonna find in? Yeah? Hard water is hard water. Yes, honestly,

(42:14):
it is a struggle those of you who live in
southeast Kansas. No matter whether you were on city water
or if God forbid, you are on well water, you
are constantly removing.

Speaker 4 (42:29):
Lime that's coming out of your inside. You're doing that.
I remember I stayed at a nice hotel there in
Independence when I was down there a couple of weeks
ago for the Para con and my house here then Derby,
we have pretty hard water here so have a water
like a whole house water softer. So basically every faucet

(42:52):
and shower and all that stuff comes out the equivalent
of like bottled water. It's filtered. And that was a
little of a shock when I was brushing my teeth
that morning and took a slug of water out of
the fossils.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
I am a former custodian. I have seen pipes this big,
that's only a couple of decades old down to this,
and it's just calcium deposits.

Speaker 5 (43:18):
Yeah. We had a spenser on our on our fridge,
and we had a black fridge at the time, and
it was constant trying to keep the calcification off of
that because that white just really stands out on the
black for sure.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Yeah. You you it costs more money to keep an
ice machine going in Kansas. Yeah, then sometimes it's worth.

Speaker 5 (43:44):
I mean, that's why we drink bottled water.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
Yeah. Let somebody else bottle it and get rid of
all that crap. Sure. So, I mean when you start
throwing hard water and lots of limestone, you could get
something like that maybe in less than ten years. You know,

(44:09):
maybe we had Hey, you got to the point we
were taking the urinals off the wall, putting them in
a giant tub with lime away and letting them soak,
and so instead of buying new ones, then we'd get
them clean, replace the next one, and then put it

(44:31):
in the tub for a month or two.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
So it was just an ongoing process.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
I mean, wow, that's what we were. They had started
doing it. I don't know if they continue doing it,
because the hard water was just ruining everything.

Speaker 5 (44:48):
You have to take the shower head off and soak
it pretty.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Often run vinegar through it or whatever. So, yeah, it
could be real. It could be just a few decades.
It could have been somebody's experiment that failed that got
thrown away and the line got to it. Yeah, or
it could be fake. I don't think it's probably five

(45:13):
hundred thousand years old.

Speaker 4 (45:15):
Some kind of like generator or a pump or something
like that that they pulled that out of or fix
it that was like around the mine and they just
chucked it into the mine.

Speaker 5 (45:24):
And maybe yeah, that's probably yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
And you know, back in the eighteen hundreds, they weren't
these factory perfect things either. A lot of these things
were made by the local blacksmith, very out of locally
sourced parts. You know, I've seen some funky things in
some of these antique vehicles. Yeah, it was like that
that didn't come out of no factory. Somebody made that

(45:49):
at home because that's what they needed and they couldn't
get it. Yeah, So I don't know. I mean, like
I said, I could go either way on that story,
whether it's fake or not. I think it's much more
modern probably, Yeah, I think it's much more a lot
of the things that we looked at last time. I

(46:12):
could go.

Speaker 5 (46:12):
Either way on like the London hammer.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Yeah, because that looks like a concretion. Also, it does.
And I'm sorry, Texas isn't that far away from Kansas,
and they have a lot of limestone too. Yeah, I
have seen what limestone get and limestone can actually start
turning wood into stone. I mean that you can see

(46:39):
that process start within a relatively short amount of time. So,
I mean it's one of those things, is it or
isn't it. I'm going to guess it's probably wishful thinking.
I don't think. I don't think it's fake. I think
it happened naturally. That particular one I think is more

(47:04):
wishful thinking.

Speaker 5 (47:05):
Yeah sounds good.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Yeah, I mean, that's what you want to think.

Speaker 5 (47:11):
Right.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
That.

Speaker 5 (47:13):
Julie says she doesn't drink tap water either, and neither
does her kitty cat. I don't blame you.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
I drink mountain dew, so I'm really healthy. The lime
water that we have around here, oh my god, this
stuff tastes nasty.

Speaker 5 (47:33):
I don't even like drink bottled water to make tea with.
Honest back, Crown's still going though. That's interesting.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Yes, that is interesting.

Speaker 5 (47:45):
I spoke too soon.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
It's all frozen. No in zoo. Oh no, he'll be
back on in a second. We we can't technical difficulties.

(48:08):
We cannot have a show without technical difficulties.

Speaker 5 (48:12):
We cannot. Oh, there he is in the chat b
TF right, we don't know what happened. And so it
was weird because your background was still going. But you
froze there you are changes that.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
Yeah, it's pretty.

Speaker 6 (48:30):
Well all right, all right, we've talked all right now
can you hear Yes, you can't hear you.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
You said you had one half.

Speaker 4 (48:45):
Basically all of my uh USB related stuff just all
winked out for a second, so microphone, my camera, my.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
But you I think I think you're having the same problems.
I'm having my new camera. I got one just like yours.
It does a great job, but it kind of makes
my hardware struggle. Yeah, I may have my word. I
may have to do something different because my hardware is

(49:21):
really struggling. And I've got a pretty good setup. I'm
running ten cores on my processor. I'm only running a
thirty fifty video card.

Speaker 4 (49:37):
But you know, is with this particular camera. I think
it's a lot to do with the USB bus speed.
If you have like one of the older setups, it's
that's where your bottleneck is going to be.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Yeah, I'm plugged into USB three point zero, so I
should be okay.

Speaker 4 (49:54):
But it should be okay.

Speaker 5 (49:59):
Is it breaks again? It's becoming a habit.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
I understand, Julie. I do. I'm an addict.

Speaker 4 (50:11):
And I very rarely drink. Although to be fair, I
did have one about forty five minutes before my presentation
a few weeks ago, so I started to get that
afternoon drag. It's like, eh, buy myself a little soda.
See how that does.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
But I probably sugar.

Speaker 4 (50:33):
I have a history of kidney stones, so soda is
like out. I very very rarely drink soda at all.
And that's that's why I had the whole house filter
kind of a thing that I put in for water
there in the house, so you know, the least amount
of actual mineral intake through water and everything like that,

(50:53):
whatever I drink is much better for me.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
M yeah, yeah, I mean it does bring up a
lot of things that the minerals and stuff around here
can cause all kinds, I mean, around the country, around
the world. It can cause weird things to happen. Not

(51:17):
like you know, it's bottled water running down the river.
It picks up everything.

Speaker 4 (51:24):
Makes you wonder, what are the people like one hundred
years ago do when they were literally just tricking stuff
out of the well or out of the river or whatever.
You know, maybe they might boil it, you know, kind of.

Speaker 5 (51:43):
Way way toper than we are.

Speaker 4 (51:46):
We're whimps.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Well, you know, you could always take a tapeworm that
makes you actually the dysentery won't bother you.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
Then I might lose some weight.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
That was an actual thing. You could take a tapeworm
before you went someplace with bad water, and the tapeworm
would protect you from getting sick, and then when you
got home you could just take whatever it was kill
the tapeworm and get rid of it.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
And any of it is correct that most folks over
here stick with gin historically, you know, yea, even back
you know, in the days of the Bible, you know,
it was safer to drink wine or something like that,
that it was to drink your local.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
You know, they would eat on chips. They would add
beer or rum to the water to keep it from
turning green and giving you giardia to kill the nasties
in it. I mean, our our Puritan forefather when they

(52:54):
came over, had to land because they were out of food,
especially beer. For those of you who haven't drank real beer,
it is full of all sorts of nutrients and is
actually fairly good for you if you do not drink
it to excess.

Speaker 5 (53:15):
Taste like wet bread.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Yeah, I mean it's bread, wet bread. And it was
originally they believe it occurred by accident the first company. Yeah,
I know, right. And beer was a good way to
preserve your heart at harvest, to keep the rats out

(53:37):
of it and provide nutrition through the winter. So there's that.
There's my little bit of trivia. I have add in
the internet. It's a dangerous, dangerous world for me. I mean,
every time I bring up the computer I have, I
have like a ninety nine chance of getting lost. Where's Mark? Oh,

(54:01):
he's out on another internet advinhu.

Speaker 4 (54:05):
Easy to do.

Speaker 5 (54:08):
And so did you say that you have one?

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (54:12):
I got one. That This is not exactly you know,
spark plug or a hammer found in a rock kind
of a thing. The out of place part of this
is the frequency of it and the time frames involved.
May see if I can remember how to share a
screen here with this new setup we're going to use.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
Yes, hello, kids, come and watch old people use technology.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
They've changed the format since I last do it. It
was actually I've actually rigged up my background in using
because it's easier to do on the other show. But
back in August, Pam and a few of the rest
of our baronormal group did a road trip to the
Iola Public Library to hear geologist Rex Buchanan do a

(55:05):
presentation on petroglyphs in you know this part of Kansas.
He actually has a book, Plans and Smoky Hills that
he did this presentation from but an hour so at
last it was. It was amazing and interesting seeing the

(55:25):
history of all of it. The rediscovery of some of
these places that almost all of them are on you know,
private land, so a lot of people don't like people
coming on their private land and messing with it. So
we can see right here on the cover of the
book and see where someone decided to etch in you know,
some stuff on there. A lot of the stuff during

(55:47):
the presentation was in the three to four hundred year
old range. There are some that are much older, you know,
a couple thousand years old. Not many of those around this,
you know, the Smoky Hills area of Kansas. But while
mister Buchanan was talking, he got to this part where

(56:11):
he was talking about different symbols and what they meant
and to the culture and things like that, and there
was one specific one in this actually is a video
which I'll throw a link in the chat if anyone's interested.
It's similar to the thing that we did and that
we got to hears. So you would get a little

(56:32):
something out of that if you like you want to,
if you're interested in that. But here mister Buchanan's talking
about this particular thing here. I don't know if you
can see mine hang, but this this bold etched out
symbol right here he pointed out that basically that was

(56:56):
their symbol for a lizard. This is according to him,
And he even was showing a lot of these glyphs
to other Native American tribes around the area. He specifically
mentioned one in Oklahoma where he was showing him Yo,
this and this, and he said they just did not

(57:19):
care about all of it. There was a lot of
there like yeah, whatever, that's fine, Yeah, okay, I could
probably see that. Yeah, But when he got to the
lizard Petrick glyph, they sat up and took notice. They
were like, oh, where did you find this? How all
do you think? It? Was a million questions, very very
interested in this one specific lizard Petrick glyph. He didn't

(57:45):
really ask why, I guess, or at least you didn't
explain it to us. So why that specific one was
such great interest in it. But the entire time he
was doing this presentation, I'm looking at this symbol and
I'm like, I've seen this somewhere before. I've seen outside, Yeah,

(58:05):
I've seen this someplace else. In all the random nonsense
from the internet, all of those rabbit holes diving deep,
you know, three in the morning, How the hell did
I get here on this website kind of thing. And
as it turns out, these things are found all over

(58:26):
the world. Some are a little different, some of them
are very specifically the same, and there's a lot of
these that are actually very old, twelve thousand plus years
old some of them. So what would these things be

(58:47):
associated with? What are these symbols, Because it's not just
a lizard, you know, you wouldn't have cultures all over
the world over thousands of years using the same act
type of thing for a lizard, because not all of
these places may even have a listard, and some of

(59:07):
these do have little differences. In turns out, this symbol
found all over the place is usually commonly referred to
as the squatting squatterman gliff. And one of the theories
about why so many cultures have this same exact thing,

(59:30):
because like we could even see like this one in Brazil,
it's got this weird little spinny thing there. There's a
lot of them, usually associated with something held in reverence,
something that you know, this was important, This was something
that somebody was trying to recreate that they had seen,
usually amongst like other animals, but some of the animals

(59:52):
and stuff like that that are nearby. They kind of
look like the actually animal not like this where very
specific angles, you know, a center line, an up or
a down facing kind of bracket kind of a thing,
very strange. Well, some people did the lower rower research

(01:00:13):
and there's a specific high energy plasma experiments done in
labs where if you introduce a magnetic field to a
field of plasma, these are all like n sealed containers
of the plasma'll he get over. But if you have
a positive and a negative pole with this plasma there,

(01:00:35):
the more plasma you introduce, it'll start collecting around the
poles just because they're charged particles. That's kind of what
they do, kind of like the Aurora borealis, you know
that kind of a you know, if you imagine, it's
similar to that, not exactly but similar. But as these
things the concentration gets higher and higher and higher. Eventually

(01:00:57):
you're positive and your negative end up eating in the middle.
And a lot of them came up with a symbol
that looks like this where the upper part, you know,
like you're positive, your lower part is your negative. Where
the they basically arc in the middle and you actually
get like a ring around the middle section, kind of

(01:01:17):
like a glowy kind of thing, almost like a little
aurora just around the connection point basically where they're shorting
out kind of thing. Now, as it turns out, something
like this is very possible to occur in nature if
there was an immense outburst of energy and debris from

(01:01:38):
the sun, very again, very similar to like how we
see the Aurora borealis to the point where it's completely
overloaded the Earth's magnetic field. You would see this in
the sky, like hugely in the sky, so much so
that it would probably look a little like this to

(01:02:01):
ancient man, where you would have this monstrous thing that
takes up the entire sky, and it was the you know,
is this what these people are drawing on the cave
walls all around the world? Did something happen? And again,
the time frame for some of these is quite old, younger,

(01:02:24):
driest time frame, which was the end of the Ice Age,
our last ice age, where there was a very rapid
melt of all of the ice from the Ice age
and a drastic warming where something big happened to the Earth.
Back that there's a lot of theories and not a
lot of evidence. There's, you know, some stuff. One of

(01:02:45):
the pieces of evidence is like you know, massive bombardment
from space from asteroids or comets where it smashed up
you know the ice that was built up, you know,
the Northern Ice Sheet specifically, and caused it to all
break up and it rapidly melts and once it was
all smashed apart. There's also another theory that fits in
with this, basically where the Sun kind of had like

(01:03:11):
a micro nova where it just kind of exploded out
a mass amount of material which once interacting with the
magnetic field, would cause this to appear in the.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Sky large scale CMEs.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
Basically like like way bigger than anything we've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
It would be like the Carrington event on steroids.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
Yeah, it's way stronger than the Carrington event because this
would last for weeks where you would see this in
the sky because basically you know your north pole and
your South pole as they met, this would and of
course this would be way out in space where you're
following the magnetic lines of you know, the magnetosphere of
the Earth, so this would be hovering like over the

(01:03:57):
equator where you could see it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
Yeah, you know, depending on where you were, you saw
this in.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
The skot that's wild.

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
So it affected a lot of cultures, to include my
one of my favorites, the Dogon tribe in West Africa,
where they included as part of their symbology for a
lot of their headdresses and stuff like that, where we
can see our classical symbology there.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Yeah, sure enough.

Speaker 4 (01:04:34):
It is, you know, is it a lizard? Well probably
for like the stuff that's like a few hundred years old,
maybe that older stuff, maybe it's not. Maybe it is
this squadromt. Maybe that's why that one particular tribe in
Oklahoma was like, whe where did you find this? Well?
Is it? What is this from? They knew? I feel,

(01:04:56):
but where you certainly have super strange stuff, you know that,
you could certainly that it may be a reach to say,
you know this is you know, related to you know this? However,
you've got stuff all around the world that's similar, because

(01:05:21):
it wouldn't have necessary because this much like how the
Aurora borealis, it would been moving and it would have
been wibbling and wobbling, and some a lot of like
a lot of in this particular example, some of them
have like the little dots off to the side, which
if you looked at this where you've got a ring

(01:05:41):
around the middle of the where it concentrates on the edge.
There are some out there where they have like little
circles in the middle and you know with the little
guy with the arms up and the legs out, things
like that. So it's it's interesting, I feel, and we
still see examples of that, you know today, well at

(01:06:02):
least a few hundred years ago, where it's still an
iconography type you know, representation of something that somebody saw.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
So somebody's ancestors looking at this and then they have
obviously anthropomorphatized it in addition to however it looked originally.

Speaker 5 (01:06:27):
And incorporated it into their oral traditions.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Yeah. So, and we all know how the whisper game
goes Just think of how that goes over you know,
one hundred generations too.

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
Just because this particular tribe was interested in what Rex
was showing them doesn't mean they're going to give him
all the information that their tribe possesses on that because
they normally don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
Because because because you were there right beside me, Pam,
he kind of gave the impression that you know, these
tribal elders that he was showing the pictures too, really
didn't care about what they were being shown. They did
not care at all until they saw the lizard, you know, glyph,

(01:07:14):
and it just happens to be that same exact glyph
is all over the world and maybe related to something
that happened over twelve thousand years ago.

Speaker 5 (01:07:25):
That's fascinating.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
And there is a lot of evidence that something happened
in the skies twelve thousand years ago about the same
time as this big melt off. So whether it be
an asteroid, and it could have been a multiple things,
it could have been just a could have been all

(01:07:47):
of it. It could have been a rolling cataclysm of all.
Let's just shake the dice and see what you know
the gods can give us, and one one behold the
end of the world. World on a grand scale, yep.
Because I mean, and we've talked about this before. If
you look at this younger Driest, with the rapid melt

(01:08:12):
off that they had that they said took weeks or months,
not years, weeks or months. The sea level of the
whole planet went up about four hundred meters.

Speaker 5 (01:08:26):
Which is tremendous.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
So you have entire continent sized land masses that just
disappear in weeks or months, and look.

Speaker 5 (01:08:39):
At how many I mean a lot of groups of people.
I lived on the coasts.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
And most people today all over the world the world
lived within a few miles of the coast.

Speaker 5 (01:08:54):
So just that explains why there's so many cities and
things that they're finding underwater, you know, because at one
time it was not for sure obviously.

Speaker 4 (01:09:07):
But anyways, that was the gist of what I.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
I didn't really get into the Dogon tribe, which had
the fancy lizard headdresses up airly, there's a lot of
weird stuff about the Dogon tribe. They actually had their
big into astronomy from dating back to their birth thousands
and thousands of years ago, so much so that they

(01:09:30):
have drawn like maps of the Solar system with the
planets in the cur concentric circles, with all the planets
listed out in there, to include Neptune and Uranus, which
you can't see with the naked eye. How do these
people see this from thousand years ago? The other big one,

(01:09:51):
there's a lot of like little things, But the other
big one that they're known for astronomy wise is the
star serious dog Star to the left of if you're
looking at O Ryan. It's the brightest star that you
can see from the surface of the Earth the naked eye,
so of course, you know it's it's popular in a
lot of cultures throughout the years because it's the biggest one,

(01:10:14):
it's the brightest one, so it stands out fun It's
actually a binar, a binary system. There's a smaller star
that orbit is it about every fifty years the Dogon tribe,
their maps show that star. It wasn't discovered until like
the fifties by astronomy. Interesting, so they have some either

(01:10:39):
super connected knowledge from a long time ago or they
had telescopes. Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):
Know, and that could be because I mean, what would
happen to our civilization if all the coastal cities disappeared
in weeks or months over the population of the world
is just going to drown or be dislocated displaced, And

(01:11:10):
I mean, it would be a it would be a
civilization ender, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:11:17):
Pretty much, Yeah, cause a lot of issues, a lot
of people would go hungry, would go.

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
All of your your gathered knowledge, all of your from
from back then, all your libraries, all your centers of government,
all of your you know, combined intelligence and wealth are
all working out of port cities and things like that.
Whereas you go a few hundred miles inland, it's more

(01:11:47):
of a substances subsistence living rural type conditions that those
are your farms and stuff even today.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
So that even if the.

Speaker 5 (01:11:59):
Coast coast area right goes underwater, that water is going
to go up the tributaries and the rivers and everything else.
So that's going to expand out and they'll be even
more of a loss of land no matter how far
inland you are.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
And this is why I think I believe that at
least some of these out of place artifacts are in
reference to a civilization that may have been here before.
They may not have been advanced as we are. But
what would happen to our civilization in twelve thousand years?

(01:12:34):
You wouldn't be able to find much of any of it. Yeah,
it would just.

Speaker 5 (01:12:41):
Exist.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
It would just cease to exist. Nature would destroy it,
and you wouldn't be able to find it. Human beings
have existed, people that we would recognize as people have
existed for two to three hundred thousand years. We only

(01:13:03):
have records of maybe the last ten thousand years, and
their spot.

Speaker 5 (01:13:09):
Is well, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
So most of human history, and I guarantee you there
were civilizations that rose and fell that we will never
ever hear of.

Speaker 5 (01:13:21):
Absolutely absolutely, and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Just all gone, except maybe maybe we're catching a glimpse
here and there with the little ceramic doll that was found.

Speaker 5 (01:13:37):
And stuff like that, you know, or whatever it was called.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
It doesn't have to be this technology that we have here,
the space shuttle thought to pit behind me. It doesn't
have to be that to be an advanced civilization. An
advanced civilization would be one that has law, that has
a written language, that has culture, you know, the builds.

(01:14:05):
So when we're talking advanced civilization, we're not talking astronausts
in space. Although I mean it could have happened, it
absolutely could have. I mean that's a long time period,
and you know, ice ages are really good at grinding
away any sign of anything that they cover, and we've
had several in that three hundred year, thousand year time period.

(01:14:31):
So I feel like it would be the height of
arrogance to suggest that there has I mean, the Western
civilization and I'm starting back in uh the Middle East,
uh and Eastern civilizations. They're they're they're they're what started

(01:14:53):
at all. Maybe they're just the remains of what was
there before.

Speaker 5 (01:14:58):
Could be Ian's got a couple of good ones in
the chat. He said, I'm totally down with this, although
we shouldn't forget the lizards are Illuminati theory.

Speaker 4 (01:15:07):
Could be lizards in the sky, and.

Speaker 5 (01:15:11):
He said, Beckley Teppy is pushing that back. And goodness
knows what's hidden beneath the Sahara Desert.

Speaker 4 (01:15:17):
Ohackly Teppy, have you been following what's been going on
with go Beckley Teppy.

Speaker 5 (01:15:21):
The last year stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:15:23):
Yeah, Actually they've been trying to hide stuff that they've
been planting trees on top of potential dig sites so
that the roots go down and ruin stuff. Then they
remove the stuff and they get pressured by the international community.
It's like, hey, what are you going to start, you know, digging,
doing more researcher Like we think we're gonna wait like

(01:15:44):
about one hundred years. So like technology improves and we've
learned more about what.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
The what No, they don't want you what did they
know that we don't I'm telling you it's grant money.
People are pressuring them to stop because if they find
out their pet theory is bogus. They lose all their
grant money. Follow the money trail, and that's what you're

(01:16:11):
gonna find.

Speaker 4 (01:16:14):
I mean, there there is a bizarre theory out there
which I don't necessarily subscribe to. It's just super weird.
But when you consider this, it's like, oh shit, this
kind of this kind of fits basically because of where
it's locates. Load in Turkey, not that far away from
where supposedly, you know, Noah's Arc landed in Mount air

(01:16:39):
Rat It's it's a distance away, but it's not that far.
But some of what they've been seeing proves that that
story is true.

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
And we know there was a flood.

Speaker 4 (01:16:54):
Being a mostly Muslim country, why advertise that Christianity got
something right? So that's why they're kind of covering it up.
And we'll get to that like a one hundred years
when our technology gets better, so we don't know, just
accidentally destroy.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
Some Actually not that bizarre when you behavior of some
of these groups, even Christian groups, as we know, can
be very destructive of what they find. They I mean,
they burned entire libraries of information, uh in in the Americas,

(01:17:36):
So we've lost an entire several entire civilizations worth of
knowledge because of Christians. Oh, that's not ours, it's the
devil's work. We're just gonna burn it all. We don't
understand the word it says, but we're gonna burn it all. Yeah,

(01:17:57):
I mean that is and that's not Christians, that's not Muslim.

Speaker 5 (01:18:02):
That's human.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
How humans behave They behave rather poorly a lot of
the time. If you haven't watched the news in the
last thirty years, wherever humans behave poorly, we run the
whole gamut from absolutely horrid to I mean saints, actual

(01:18:31):
real saints. There are people like that out there, and
then most of us are somewhere in between that. But
there are monsters on one end and saints on the
other and everything in between. And I'm sorry. Bad things
are going to happen, and it's probably because of people,
but good things are going to happen, and that's also

(01:18:53):
because of people. So, I mean, it's just how it is.
That's how people are.

Speaker 4 (01:19:03):
Humans are horrible, Julie says. Some of them are planets.

Speaker 3 (01:19:08):
Some of them are Julie, some of them are Uh. Anyway,
that being said, we have a couple more or do
we want to wrap this up and revisit again in
a few months. Because I do enjoy this line of discussion.

(01:19:28):
I hope our viewers and listeners enjoy these lines of
discussion because I think they're these ones about ancient history
and about what might have been I find highly stimulating.
It's not paranormal. It is fringy, which is why we
talk about it on the fringe.

Speaker 4 (01:19:51):
I'd actually like to see something for the next paricn
on stuffing like this, even if it's uh, you know,
having Rex Buchanan come down top about some of that stuff,
or Jim talk about some of the you know, the
serpent and Taglio and stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (01:20:07):
Yeah, that'd be really cool.

Speaker 3 (01:20:09):
I mean, it doesn't have to be paranormal to be
at a paraton. Really.

Speaker 4 (01:20:14):
If you go to uh Contact in the Desert, which
is a UFO thing, they do have a big chunk
that's all ancient archaeology type stuff like the things we've
just been talking about. It's a big interest.

Speaker 3 (01:20:27):
Yeah, I dig it because, like I said, three hundred
thousand years, it may be more. I need to really
look that up. I've heard estimates from one hundred thousand
to three hundred thousand years that people that we would
recognize as human has been around. Humans aren't dumb, Well,

(01:20:48):
they are dumb, but they're also very smart. You know.

Speaker 5 (01:20:55):
Look at that's what it boils down to.

Speaker 3 (01:20:58):
You've got thumb. Uh. Look at the Greeks. They they
had calculated the comforts of the earth within two hundred
miles using primitive equipment yep. Math. The only reason they
were wrong is because they miscalculated where the equator was
by not a whole hell of a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:21:19):
Because the equator actually bulges out a little bit from
some directable forest of air. It's spinning first, as if
you were to measure from you to the poles. If
you measure that way, it would be kind of accurate.
But it actually gets a little little much like me,
fatter around the middle as you as you go.

Speaker 3 (01:21:38):
Down right right. I feel you, brother, I feel you.
So people are very smart. And what was it the
other day? I mean, this is totally off topic, but
on topic at the same time, they discovered a clay
tablet that has a different version of trigonometry based on

(01:22:02):
wholly different principles, and all the math works out really
from I believe some Aria or somewhere in that region.
So they were, they were, they were aware of advanced trigonometry.
It's completely different than our trigonometry. But the math also

(01:22:22):
works out, so there is more than one way to
skin a cat. As they say, our ancestors were not
as dumb as we would like to think, and we
are not as smart as we would like to think.

(01:22:43):
So I mean it goes both ways, folks.

Speaker 5 (01:22:47):
And British author Andrew Collins has covered a lot of
the ancient archaeology subjects from Egypt to Turkey while worth
looking up. That's I was sitting here taking notes. I
will definitely.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
Hey grand Hancock.

Speaker 3 (01:23:01):
Yeah, yeah, I love this guy. Yeah, I've got I've
got a fairly nice collection of his books sitting over
here actually are on my to read list instead of
just to scan scan through for specific fingers.

Speaker 4 (01:23:21):
He's a very nice person. I met him at Contact
in the Desert the last time I went there two
years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
I would love to meet that guy. I would love
to just sit down, and.

Speaker 4 (01:23:30):
So did everybody else. That's why I didn't like get
a chance to like say more than hi, it's great
to meet you. And that was kind of all day long.

Speaker 3 (01:23:37):
I would buy him all three meals and he is.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
A strict vegetarian. There's your heads up.

Speaker 3 (01:23:45):
I will eat at whatever restaurant he wants to talk,
and I will pick up the bill.

Speaker 5 (01:23:56):
So I think we should definitely carry this over into
another because we barely touched on anything, and.

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):
It's so it's a stimulating conversation.

Speaker 5 (01:24:09):
It is very much so.

Speaker 4 (01:24:12):
I mean, I'll admit, you know, my my thing was
certainly probably a little off topic.

Speaker 5 (01:24:17):
But no, I actually think it was that fool Yeah
that was great.

Speaker 4 (01:24:22):
Yeah it is. Is there an actual connection between you know,
the thing that Pam and I went to with mister Buchanan. Uh,
probably not, but that same symbology is worldwide. Uh is
it a coincidence?

Speaker 5 (01:24:37):
I don't know that you and led you down that rabbit.

Speaker 4 (01:24:42):
I don't think I mentioned it at the time when
it was going because I was like, I couldn't remember
what it was i'd seen, and uh, it was actually
a video i'd seen on YouTube. Because YouTube, if you
put in a squatterman, uh, you know petroglyphs in youtub tube,
there's hundreds of different videos basically recounting everything I just

(01:25:04):
talked about. Uh, specifically, you know the plasma experiments and
and how basically, when it's extreme enough, that's the shape
of how they discharge against a positive and negative versions themselves.
And if that happened on a worldwide, you know, global
type event, you would see it everywhere in the sky.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
And nobody would be able to talk about it because
that would totally wipe out our technology. Oh yeah, that
would make the Carrington event look like static electricity in
your door knob. Yep, there would not be any technology
functioning anywhere. I don't even think hardened technology would survive that.

Speaker 4 (01:25:49):
Yeah, that's a tough one because that's that that level
of stuff that's going down to like the core of
the planet.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
Yeah, and what I actually shorten everybody's life because that's
plasma radiation where I mean, it's gonna get it's gonna
get Yeah, it's gonna get rough. It's gonna get rough.
So yeah, let's revisit this again and related topics because

(01:26:21):
I love this stuff. I know you guys do too,
digging through this stuff and just and chewing on it.
Like I said, some of it, some of it I
feel like is fake or misidentified, And then you get
into stuff like what's the actual.

Speaker 5 (01:26:39):
Yeah, what what.

Speaker 3 (01:26:41):
Is going on here? Because there might be something to this.
So anyway, there there we are. And heck, even even
your coal seam stuff. We discussed last time how some
of that stuff might take as long to form as

(01:27:01):
we think, so we could get a screw in a
cold scene or whatever. You know. I would not put
screws and stuff as being out of the realm of
possibility for an ancient civilization at all, because you know,
screws aren't that hard. You know, they're not that hard

(01:27:22):
to make. Our ancestors were making them a thousand years ago,
two thousand years ago. Really, our ancestors before the fall
of whatever civilization it was, we're smart enough to come
up with a screw as well.

Speaker 4 (01:27:39):
Yep, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
Hell they might even had printing presses and everything else.
We don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:27:47):
Yeah, that's that's the problem is because was lost so
long ago. Yeah, we don't know the level of technology
whoever it was that came before, and even the survivor
what their knowledge level was. There's certain and Handcock talks
about it. The mostly a lot of the Pacific based

(01:28:07):
UH civilizations have stories of you know, the flood myth
and then shortly afterwards, these strange people, strangers showing up
to educate the people on how to grow crops and
how to filter water and how to build stuff and
things like that, and then they get back in their boat.

Speaker 3 (01:28:25):
And clizations have those stories. So like the survivor said, well,
you know, if we want to have trade again, we've
got to get everybody. We got to get as many
of these people going as they can.

Speaker 4 (01:28:41):
Yep, that's.

Speaker 5 (01:28:44):
There's some of that in there.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
That's available in hardback. I'm going to buy one. I
put it on my Christmas list. I don't get it
for Christmas. I'm gonna buy it myself. But last year
I got the border in the hard back version with
with the graphic from the nineteen fifties on them.

Speaker 5 (01:29:06):
Nice You've got a nice library started back there.

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
I you know, I enjoy it. I enjoy it. I've
got more room to expand too.

Speaker 5 (01:29:16):
So you've been in my house. My library has expanded.

Speaker 3 (01:29:20):
To my my old, my old I think is going
to go over here, out of sight, but I think
it's going to go back out. Yeah, I'm going to
run out of room.

Speaker 5 (01:29:30):
My mom, she's she has been coming by more on
this since I damaged myself, and she looked at my
bookstack where I sat at the dining room table and
she was like, don't you want to put those up?
And I was like, don't touch them. Those those are necessary.
So she just gave me the look. Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:29:53):
If I were to actually try to read my to
read pile, that's how I would finish the rest of
my life. I would not get another thing done, because
that's all we're doing, folks, And I would still not
get to the end of my to read pile. Have

(01:30:13):
you ever seen the book Goblin on Facebook? Look up
the book Goblin? I, well, our genres are different that
we read. I identify a great deal with book Goblin.
That's funny, So do do look up book book Goblin.

(01:30:37):
It's it's hilarious. Anybody who is any kind of bibliophile
will find a lot of humor. The lady who does
it is a writer, and book Goblin his her alter
ego that she's always speaking to and it is freaking hilarious.

(01:31:02):
And I totally, I mean all of us would I
totally identify with it. So all right, folks. Well that said,
it's time to say good night, and we will put
our heads together and come up with another stimulating conversation.

(01:31:23):
For next time for sure, So good night everybody, good
night

Speaker 5 (01:32:00):
Ka