July 26, 2024 • 17 mins
Welcome to One Bad Podcast!
Join Kurt and Shane as they kick off 20 years worth of stories, memories and advice for up-and-coming Canadian rock and roll bands.
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Join Kurt and Shane as they kick off 20 years worth of stories, memories and advice for up-and-coming Canadian rock and roll bands.
You can watch One Bad Podcast on YouTube, here: https://youtu.be/DIn99sZPj6U
Checkout One Bad Son online: https://www.onebadson.com/
Shane Volk: https://www.shaneconneryvolk.com/
Kurt Dahl: https://lawyerdrummer.com/
If you are a content creator, new or experienced, join our team!
If you'd like to advertise with us, head to our website.
Join the movement here: https://www.dufferinave.com/
Socials:
https://www.instagram.com/onebadson
https://www.facebook.com/onebadson/
https://x.com/OneBadSon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome, It's the One Bad Podcast. Here's your host Kyd
and Shaner.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Kurt.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
You were saying this just before we jumped on. It's
been how many episodes. Now we finally get to talk
about a hit song. Finally we're there. We're at Scarecrows,
or as we've heard many times in our career, Scarecrow.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
That's right, Scarecrow the singular.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
And yeah, you know it took us this long in
this podcast and in our real lives to write a
hit single.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Who knew?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
You know, Well, that's the thing, like ten years to
your first hit. But there's bands that never got there.
So you know, I still think we're ahead of the curve.
You know, even when this happened, we're.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Better than some bands. That's what you're saying, that's the title.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Well, you know, I do feel like the times that
we thought to ourselves like, oh I wish we were
bigger and all of that. I mean, there's even in
this country, there's probably millions of bands, you know, so
you always temper your the way you talk to yourself
by realizing that a lot of bands came and went
over the last twenty years that we've played with a
lot of next big things came and went while we
(01:09):
kept rising.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So I always take that as a badge of owner.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
You know, Oh me too, man, And I think of
all the songs, I mean, if someone said, what's the
song that like from obs catalog that's most special to you,
I'd probably say Scarecrows because it was like it was
that first hit, you know. And I always say, like songwriting,
it's like it's a little bit of magic when it
happens right, you know, as we've found right when when
(01:33):
it happens right, it just the song comes out of
it seems to come out of thin air, which is
that's the beauty of songwriting and of rock and roll.
And with this song, it kind of came out of nowhere.
And you're always craving that high as a musician, and
once you get it once, it's like you always want
to go back to the well. But as as Leonard
Cohen said, if I knew where all the good songs
(01:53):
came from, I'd go there more often.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's really true, buddy, And honestly, this, I mean, this
episode might turn into the all Scarecrows episode because I
think there's a lot of stories around this song, like
I remember we all loved it, Like you just said,
we there was something about it we couldn't quite put
our finger on, like it just it felt. It went
through some different iterations. Remember it was really fast when
(02:17):
we first started. It was like kind of the super
up tempo thing, and then it I think we slowed
it way down. It took a it took a bit
to take shape. But I also remember the first time
we ever played it live was I think maybe it
buds and it just absolutely bombed.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I don't know if you remember.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
That, but remember.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I've blacked out so many, uh parts of that of
those years.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
But you you've often said to me that the joy
of being a drummer is you can put your head
down and pretend you're somewhere else behind.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, And I've got mad respect for you because you
can't do that, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It's it's like the music equivalent of having your nose
rubbed in it. It's like, not only are you bombing,
but you got to in there and watch, you know,
and that's my bird.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
And you have to engage with the crowd even though
you want to leave.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So you got you guys like that one. No, Well,
here's a different one.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Well, so the crowd didn't like it, but that and
that makes sense. I remember anytime we'd write original songs
that were like mellow, you know, compared to the hard
stuff that they'd bomb because people are like, they don't
know it and they also can't can't push their the
person on the dance floor beside them, they can they
can't mosh to it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Well, it's true, and I mean it's interesting to bring
it up because there's a long story and uh, I
don't know if a lot a lot of people know
how we pick singles in that and that's probably a
thing to talk about here too, But yeah, there is
a long story behind the song.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
But that's one of the things.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
We would always try new songs out and our crowd
was great for like being stoked to hear stuff. They
still are, but you couldn't always go off of if
it got a response live, like cause it weirdly some
tunes like you're right if you're if you're you're playing
a rock set, so if you're playing an up tempo
rock tune, even if they haven't heard it while, you
can go crazy to it. But this song, it took
(04:03):
some listening, you know what I mean. And I think
I'm probably going to get more animated about this as
the podcast goes. Well, like we're in the content era, right,
and it's almost like, oh, one listen.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
And who gives a shit?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
But yeah, sometimes the tune does take some listens before
you really get hits, you you know what I mean.
And so yeah, I definitely remember it bombing bombing a
couple of times. But we knew there was something about it, right,
Like we just knew we had to stick with it.
As I said, when we recorded it, Yeah, I went
through a bunch of tempo changes and just you know,
(04:39):
different kind of arrangements, and it was always a little
bit of a weird song, like it doesn't have it's
a little zeppeline, I think in that it doesn't have
you know, this big court like a foo Fighter's kind
of chorus. Like it was just kind of I don't know,
is just a different sort of a moody song for us, right,
And we man, we stuck to our guns on it
because our label, oh, they they loved it. They couldn't
(05:00):
wait to get it on the radio. They couldn't wait
to throw money at it.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Hey, Yeah, Well, yeah, I mean I remember so well.
First off, yeah, just some background, how we pick singles,
you know, you and I and Hicks essentially and Granny
at the time, would you know, just agree on what
we like as a band, But that wouldn't always jive
with what the label wants, or the management wants or
(05:24):
our radio trackers. So's three other parties involved besides the band.
So it wasn't like we had carte blanche to do
whatever we want, right, I mean, yeah, now we sort
of do, but it took us twenty years to get here.
But scarecrows, they didn't. All we heard was the reasons
why it wouldn't be a hit, right. So first off,
it's not active enough for active rock radio was the
(05:44):
big slide against it.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Number two, there's no real.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Course, like you said, and I was like, oh well,
but I also thought so many of my favorite songs
don't have courses, right, like Nautical Disaster, you know, there's
no course, it's just kind of like it's just epic.
And then third it was just sort of I remember
someone said that the first rhyme, you know, everybody says
that things got.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Like oh yeah, like people did.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Someone didn't like that because it was just that they
didn't like that that first rhyming cup and I was like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Because we rhymed no with no, and I'm like, well
that that's the the point is that like it. But
it's it's two different versions of that. It was just
and it sounded fine. You know, I love that Van
Halen did that a couple of times, so I was
fine with it.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Yeah, No, I love that rhyme of no and no
to me, that's that's brilliant. But yeah, I mean so
it was shot down basically, so we would end up
releasing russ Bucket as the first single, and but it
already been released previously by us, but you know, just
kind of amateurly released so open. Our first big major
label single was rust Bucket and it bombed. And then
(06:49):
we're like, hey, we we let the label and radio
team pick the first single, and now we get the
second single and that's where and they based said, sure,
you guys, get this pick and if it bombs, then
that's it.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
You're done.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
You're done.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Like how many times did we how many times did
we face that in our career? Like this moment of
like this is it right? And then we sit around
like you said, the four of us and say, well, fuck,
I don't know, Like, but can we just try to
pick because you made a good you made a good point,
Like sorry, what I was gonna say is why can't
we just pick the best song because you made a
great point.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
They're like, well, it needs to be more active.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Well, you're a rock band, so your first single should
be like this big rock hit, and I mean Russ
Buckett was it's a great song, like it went over
great live, like back to that point, and we loved
the song, but was it gonna be a top five hit?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Well?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
How do you know?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
But they give you all these things like well it's
rock and then you know, you want people to know
you're a rock band, and we were like, well, if
no one fucking adds it, they're not gonna know who
we are anyways, right, So we and I don't know
how many times we came back to this same point
in our career, which was can we just pick the
best song, Like let's forget whether or not it's got
(07:58):
super heavy guitars or like let's forget about you know,
all of these things that the people on our so
called team would be telling us and just can we
just go with the song that we think is the
best song, right, which is really what it came down
to with this.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I love that you're in a Zeppelin shirt because it
makes you realize why why Zeppelin never released singles.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
It's probably because.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Of this stupid You know, they just released albums, right
and they don't have to worry about this garbage. But
but yeah, just talking about this brings me back to
those days. And it's not like we're out of those days,
like even now picking singles. You know, we see like
we know what our next single is and we're we're
super stoked. But you know, it's not like everyone's always
on the same page, right in terms of people on
(08:42):
your team. At the end of day, I think, and
this goes for this is another piece of advice for
other bands out there. I mean, all you have as
an artist is your gut instinct and you got to
rely on that.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You gotta trust it.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It doesn't mean you're gonna be wrong, not gonna be
wrong sometimes, but I mean that's what you have that
no one else on your team will have, right, They
won't know your music the way you know it. And
it doesn't mean you can't take advice from people on
your team, but if their advice goes way against what
your gut instinct is telling you, you gotta say no
to it, right and because again all you have is
(09:14):
as Neil Young said, it's like, the one thing that
makes an artist a real artist is the ability to
fail as well as succeed. Right, So if we're gonna fail,
it's gonna be on our own terms, not like because
someone else made us fail. It's like we chose certain
thing and it failed, but then if we succeed, then
it's we own it as well. I mean I do
think you and I and the rest of the guys
(09:34):
in the band like we can own those successes. Because
it wasn't like people like, hey, here's your hit.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It's Scarecrows. We had to fight for it. Same with
the next one. It ain't right.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
They thought it was too political. And the third one
Retorish Blues. They thought, well, it's got the word blues
in the title, so they'll never play it on rock radio.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
It literally were like they won't play a song with
blues in the title. And seven Seas Blues just came
out by Monster Truck, And remember telling our label.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I was like the number what ever?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
It was like two songs in the country right now
has blues in the title. So you're your argument is
absolutely idiotic. And you know we should say and for
new bands coming up and bands that start to get
management and get labels and all that, like this is
commercial art, right, and the thing that you give a break,
(10:21):
You give your label a bit of a break and
your handlers and stuff, because like money's involved, and you're
if you're gonna sink fifteen thousand dollars into marketing a single,
you know, it's not their fault that they get so
in their heads about like you know, what they want.
You see it in Hollywood all the time, like they
want to know something will be a hit. That's why
(10:41):
we get so many shitty sequels and prequels, and so
they think, well, totally right, and they because you know,
now they've like you know, they've I'm a farm kid,
so I can say this, they've milked that cow far
too often. But no, but honestly, you can cut a
bit of a break as you understand, like it's not
your money coming out, Like you don't have to take
ten thousand dollars out of your pocket and put it down.
(11:04):
They do, so you and we understood that we weren't.
We never try to be assholes with our label and
stuff and try to say like, well, no, you're going
to do this because you realize I forget who I
said this to.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Once. They were like, we'll just do whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And I'm like, well, would you put fifteen thousand dollars
of your money, like right now, out of your bank account?
Would you take out loans because you believe in this
song so much? And that's kind of what it comes
down to, like you're again, we were hanging our career
on this moment because you already said it. They told
us straight up like if this bombs, you're done. You know,
(11:42):
the record will come out, but like that's it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
And then what did we do? This was our beginning
of radio.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
We set up the Scarecrow's Radio Tour, which has become
kind of a thing of legend anybody that knows our history.
And it was it was like, I don't even know
how to summarize it. You were in Vancouver, you were
like at HQ setting up all of these interviews, sitting
up all and then Hicks and I went out in
the car and just went to every station we could
(12:10):
find when stations still let you come in, right. And
I think it might have been your idea to do that,
because we were like, I guess like, if that doesn't.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Work, well, so be it. I stole the idea from Airheads,
the movie, you know. But but yeah, like I knew
that you, I knew the song was killer. I knew
that you were charming. Hicks was charming too, you know,
in his own Hicks way, you know. But I knew
that if you got in and met the people, they'd
be like, hey, I like these guys, and uh, and
(12:40):
the song's great. But and then I saw Airheads. I
remember they took over stations and stuff and played their
song on the radio. But I knew it wasn't a takeover.
It was a friendly, a friendly takeover, as they say.
But and I was working in Vancouver at the time,
and I pretending to be busy at my my law job,
but it wasn't busy, so I was and I was
just spending hours a day just lining up radio gigs, you.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Know, it's like or a radio yeah, appearances.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
So we started Vancouver, went to Colowna, went to Kamloops,
and just kept going east and then got to Alberta,
hit all those stations and you guys were killing it
just driving all these stations. But the crazy thing was
that it started to work, like I remember, I think
Kamloops played it first, Coloonna played it first, Vancouver or nothing,
but it just kept going east and kept getting plays
and then ads, and it was like you got to
(13:27):
Alberta and also we got like Grand Prairie adding at
Lethbridge and we could just see the dominoes falling like
on the map, you know, and we got to sketch
when Regina Sastoon added heavy rotation. So then we're like
you're in our hometown and the songs like top fifteen
or something now and we're just like, holy shit, like
let's just keep going. And I think you went from
I think you went kept going east from Saastoon or
(13:49):
Winnipeg or something on your own. It was like, you know,
it's just the two of you in a car and
I think you flew right.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Is that what happened? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Well exactly man, And like you summarized it perfectly, and
it was it was crazy because it was like it
started out with we coordinate with you in the morning,
We're like, Hey, this is what we're going to hit.
This is one we have to get there. We usually yeah,
we and honestly it was a pep talk. But then
all of a sudden, the song was getting played before
we showed up, Like we started hearing it as we're
pulling up to the station, and it was crazy. And
(14:18):
then we check our phones every morning and it was
like added here, added here, added here, And then we
uh exactly that we came to this.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
It was almost like a crisis moment.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Hicks and I were sitting in Winnipeg and we talked
to you and we were like, we do not have
enough money to drive out to Ontario, and we don't
have enough money to fly both of us out there.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
So we made the decision.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Hicks drove from Winnipeg back to Vancouver, and I flew
out to Ontario, rented a car, this little Fiat that
I slept in a couple of nights and did the
whole did the whole thing out there, and did another
like week or week and a half out there, and
that we started getting ads in Oshawa. We got ads
all over the place, Like it was like we worked
(15:02):
that top five and you know, the label didn't know
what was happening, which was the story of our career
with them in general. They were like, I get we
don't know why you guys are successful, what's going on?
But it was crazy, Like honestly, it happened so quick too.
No one knew what to do. Like even us, we
were like, well, holy shit, we're like we're number five,
(15:22):
which was unheard of, like especially in those days, like
that's twenty twelve.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I think when that song came out, it was really tough.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It was so hard to break top ten, Like we
kept getting told like, well, if you make top twenty
like that, you know, call it a success. Yeah, and
like fifteen eleven ten, it was just like, holy shit,
it was.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It was crazy, man.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
It was honestly highlight of our career for sure, because
it was that moment. We'd been working for a decade
to that point. Like you said to start this episode,
great way to end this episode, which is like we
worked ten years to get a hit. No one believed
in it, No one believed we could do anything like that.
Even our team, the people that stood to make money
(16:04):
off of it, didn't believe in it. And then all
of a sudden, it was this crazy success and that
opened you know, that really blew things wide open for us.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah, I love that's a great way to end it.
Like it took us ten years and we got there
from just believing in ourselves, right like it so many
times we could have just listened to the Handlers and
not released that song, and we wouldn't be here talking
about obs, right, Like without Scarecrows, we wouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Here today, right because if Scarebrows would.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Have wouldn't have hit, we wouldn't have probably got the
next record with six oh four. And I mean, I
didn't want to think about it, but it was like
and again, even that whole the radio thing, it was
just that you can't even do that now. Stations won't
allow that anymore because they're just more shut down.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
But we did. It was just our own making.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
And you know, it's like, I give mad props to
everyone who helped us along the way. But it's also
like I look back and I'm like, and you, you
and Hicks driving across the country. You fly, and we
had no money. That's why you remember you texting me
like I'm sleeping in my feet, you know, And it's like,
it's not enough room to like lay it down fully
right now. I just reclined to see but we were
so effing broke and it's like, yeah, it's just I
(17:11):
look back and I'm like, I'm not sure if i
could do it again because it was just like so
much work, right, Yeah, So it was hard work, but
it ended up working out, and it's like, yeah, it
was a pretty it was a game changer for.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Us, absolutely, man, and more to come.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
We'll keep talking about the Red Album on the next episode.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Thanks for listening to One Bad Podcast.
Welcome, It's the One Bad Podcast. Here's your host Kyd
and Shaner.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Kurt.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
You were saying this just before we jumped on. It's
been how many episodes. Now we finally get to talk
about a hit song. Finally we're there. We're at Scarecrows,
or as we've heard many times in our career, Scarecrow.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
That's right, Scarecrow the singular.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
And yeah, you know it took us this long in
this podcast and in our real lives to write a
hit single.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Who knew?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
You know, Well, that's the thing, like ten years to
your first hit. But there's bands that never got there.
So you know, I still think we're ahead of the curve.
You know, even when this happened, we're.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Better than some bands. That's what you're saying, that's the title.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Well, you know, I do feel like the times that
we thought to ourselves like, oh I wish we were
bigger and all of that. I mean, there's even in
this country, there's probably millions of bands, you know, so
you always temper your the way you talk to yourself
by realizing that a lot of bands came and went
over the last twenty years that we've played with a
lot of next big things came and went while we
(01:09):
kept rising.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So I always take that as a badge of owner.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
You know, Oh me too, man, And I think of
all the songs, I mean, if someone said, what's the
song that like from obs catalog that's most special to you,
I'd probably say Scarecrows because it was like it was
that first hit, you know. And I always say, like songwriting,
it's like it's a little bit of magic when it
happens right, you know, as we've found right when when
(01:33):
it happens right, it just the song comes out of
it seems to come out of thin air, which is
that's the beauty of songwriting and of rock and roll.
And with this song, it kind of came out of nowhere.
And you're always craving that high as a musician, and
once you get it once, it's like you always want
to go back to the well. But as as Leonard
Cohen said, if I knew where all the good songs
(01:53):
came from, I'd go there more often.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's really true, buddy, And honestly, this, I mean, this
episode might turn into the all Scarecrows episode because I
think there's a lot of stories around this song, like
I remember we all loved it, Like you just said,
we there was something about it we couldn't quite put
our finger on, like it just it felt. It went
through some different iterations. Remember it was really fast when
(02:17):
we first started. It was like kind of the super
up tempo thing, and then it I think we slowed
it way down. It took a it took a bit
to take shape. But I also remember the first time
we ever played it live was I think maybe it
buds and it just absolutely bombed.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I don't know if you remember.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
That, but remember.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I've blacked out so many, uh parts of that of
those years.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
But you you've often said to me that the joy
of being a drummer is you can put your head
down and pretend you're somewhere else behind.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, And I've got mad respect for you because you
can't do that, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It's it's like the music equivalent of having your nose
rubbed in it. It's like, not only are you bombing,
but you got to in there and watch, you know,
and that's my bird.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
And you have to engage with the crowd even though
you want to leave.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So you got you guys like that one. No, Well,
here's a different one.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Well, so the crowd didn't like it, but that and
that makes sense. I remember anytime we'd write original songs
that were like mellow, you know, compared to the hard
stuff that they'd bomb because people are like, they don't
know it and they also can't can't push their the
person on the dance floor beside them, they can they
can't mosh to it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Well, it's true, and I mean it's interesting to bring
it up because there's a long story and uh, I
don't know if a lot a lot of people know
how we pick singles in that and that's probably a
thing to talk about here too, But yeah, there is
a long story behind the song.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
But that's one of the things.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
We would always try new songs out and our crowd
was great for like being stoked to hear stuff. They
still are, but you couldn't always go off of if
it got a response live, like cause it weirdly some
tunes like you're right if you're if you're you're playing
a rock set, so if you're playing an up tempo
rock tune, even if they haven't heard it while, you
can go crazy to it. But this song, it took
(04:03):
some listening, you know what I mean. And I think
I'm probably going to get more animated about this as
the podcast goes. Well, like we're in the content era, right,
and it's almost like, oh, one listen.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
And who gives a shit?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
But yeah, sometimes the tune does take some listens before
you really get hits, you you know what I mean.
And so yeah, I definitely remember it bombing bombing a
couple of times. But we knew there was something about it, right,
Like we just knew we had to stick with it.
As I said, when we recorded it, Yeah, I went
through a bunch of tempo changes and just you know,
(04:39):
different kind of arrangements, and it was always a little
bit of a weird song, like it doesn't have it's
a little zeppeline, I think in that it doesn't have
you know, this big court like a foo Fighter's kind
of chorus. Like it was just kind of I don't know,
is just a different sort of a moody song for us, right,
And we man, we stuck to our guns on it
because our label, oh, they they loved it. They couldn't
(05:00):
wait to get it on the radio. They couldn't wait
to throw money at it.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Hey, Yeah, Well, yeah, I mean I remember so well.
First off, yeah, just some background, how we pick singles,
you know, you and I and Hicks essentially and Granny
at the time, would you know, just agree on what
we like as a band, But that wouldn't always jive
with what the label wants, or the management wants or
(05:24):
our radio trackers. So's three other parties involved besides the band.
So it wasn't like we had carte blanche to do
whatever we want, right, I mean, yeah, now we sort
of do, but it took us twenty years to get here.
But scarecrows, they didn't. All we heard was the reasons
why it wouldn't be a hit, right. So first off,
it's not active enough for active rock radio was the
(05:44):
big slide against it.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Number two, there's no real.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Course, like you said, and I was like, oh well,
but I also thought so many of my favorite songs
don't have courses, right, like Nautical Disaster, you know, there's
no course, it's just kind of like it's just epic.
And then third it was just sort of I remember
someone said that the first rhyme, you know, everybody says
that things got.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Like oh yeah, like people did.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Someone didn't like that because it was just that they
didn't like that that first rhyming cup and I was like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Because we rhymed no with no, and I'm like, well
that that's the the point is that like it. But
it's it's two different versions of that. It was just
and it sounded fine. You know, I love that Van
Halen did that a couple of times, so I was
fine with it.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Yeah, No, I love that rhyme of no and no
to me, that's that's brilliant. But yeah, I mean so
it was shot down basically, so we would end up
releasing russ Bucket as the first single, and but it
already been released previously by us, but you know, just
kind of amateurly released so open. Our first big major
label single was rust Bucket and it bombed. And then
(06:49):
we're like, hey, we we let the label and radio
team pick the first single, and now we get the
second single and that's where and they based said, sure,
you guys, get this pick and if it bombs, then
that's it.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
You're done.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
You're done.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Like how many times did we how many times did
we face that in our career? Like this moment of
like this is it right? And then we sit around
like you said, the four of us and say, well, fuck,
I don't know, Like, but can we just try to
pick because you made a good you made a good point,
Like sorry, what I was gonna say is why can't
we just pick the best song because you made a
great point.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
They're like, well, it needs to be more active.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Well, you're a rock band, so your first single should
be like this big rock hit, and I mean Russ
Buckett was it's a great song, like it went over
great live, like back to that point, and we loved
the song, but was it gonna be a top five hit?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Well?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
How do you know?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
But they give you all these things like well it's
rock and then you know, you want people to know
you're a rock band, and we were like, well, if
no one fucking adds it, they're not gonna know who
we are anyways, right, So we and I don't know
how many times we came back to this same point
in our career, which was can we just pick the
best song, Like let's forget whether or not it's got
(07:58):
super heavy guitars or like let's forget about you know,
all of these things that the people on our so
called team would be telling us and just can we
just go with the song that we think is the
best song, right, which is really what it came down
to with this.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I love that you're in a Zeppelin shirt because it
makes you realize why why Zeppelin never released singles.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
It's probably because.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Of this stupid You know, they just released albums, right
and they don't have to worry about this garbage. But
but yeah, just talking about this brings me back to
those days. And it's not like we're out of those days,
like even now picking singles. You know, we see like
we know what our next single is and we're we're
super stoked. But you know, it's not like everyone's always
on the same page, right in terms of people on
(08:42):
your team. At the end of day, I think, and
this goes for this is another piece of advice for
other bands out there. I mean, all you have as
an artist is your gut instinct and you got to
rely on that.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You gotta trust it.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It doesn't mean you're gonna be wrong, not gonna be
wrong sometimes, but I mean that's what you have that
no one else on your team will have, right, They
won't know your music the way you know it. And
it doesn't mean you can't take advice from people on
your team, but if their advice goes way against what
your gut instinct is telling you, you gotta say no
to it, right and because again all you have is
(09:14):
as Neil Young said, it's like, the one thing that
makes an artist a real artist is the ability to
fail as well as succeed. Right, So if we're gonna fail,
it's gonna be on our own terms, not like because
someone else made us fail. It's like we chose certain
thing and it failed, but then if we succeed, then
it's we own it as well. I mean I do
think you and I and the rest of the guys
(09:34):
in the band like we can own those successes. Because
it wasn't like people like, hey, here's your hit.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It's Scarecrows. We had to fight for it. Same with
the next one. It ain't right.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
They thought it was too political. And the third one
Retorish Blues. They thought, well, it's got the word blues
in the title, so they'll never play it on rock radio.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
It literally were like they won't play a song with
blues in the title. And seven Seas Blues just came
out by Monster Truck, And remember telling our label.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I was like the number what ever?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
It was like two songs in the country right now
has blues in the title. So you're your argument is
absolutely idiotic. And you know we should say and for
new bands coming up and bands that start to get
management and get labels and all that, like this is
commercial art, right, and the thing that you give a break,
(10:21):
You give your label a bit of a break and
your handlers and stuff, because like money's involved, and you're
if you're gonna sink fifteen thousand dollars into marketing a single,
you know, it's not their fault that they get so
in their heads about like you know, what they want.
You see it in Hollywood all the time, like they
want to know something will be a hit. That's why
(10:41):
we get so many shitty sequels and prequels, and so
they think, well, totally right, and they because you know,
now they've like you know, they've I'm a farm kid,
so I can say this, they've milked that cow far
too often. But no, but honestly, you can cut a
bit of a break as you understand, like it's not
your money coming out, Like you don't have to take
ten thousand dollars out of your pocket and put it down.
(11:04):
They do, so you and we understood that we weren't.
We never try to be assholes with our label and
stuff and try to say like, well, no, you're going
to do this because you realize I forget who I
said this to.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Once. They were like, we'll just do whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And I'm like, well, would you put fifteen thousand dollars
of your money, like right now, out of your bank account?
Would you take out loans because you believe in this
song so much? And that's kind of what it comes
down to, like you're again, we were hanging our career
on this moment because you already said it. They told
us straight up like if this bombs, you're done. You know,
(11:42):
the record will come out, but like that's it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
And then what did we do? This was our beginning
of radio.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
We set up the Scarecrow's Radio Tour, which has become
kind of a thing of legend anybody that knows our history.
And it was it was like, I don't even know
how to summarize it. You were in Vancouver, you were
like at HQ setting up all of these interviews, sitting
up all and then Hicks and I went out in
the car and just went to every station we could
(12:10):
find when stations still let you come in, right. And
I think it might have been your idea to do that,
because we were like, I guess like, if that doesn't.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Work, well, so be it. I stole the idea from Airheads,
the movie, you know. But but yeah, like I knew
that you, I knew the song was killer. I knew
that you were charming. Hicks was charming too, you know,
in his own Hicks way, you know. But I knew
that if you got in and met the people, they'd
be like, hey, I like these guys, and uh, and
(12:40):
the song's great. But and then I saw Airheads. I
remember they took over stations and stuff and played their
song on the radio. But I knew it wasn't a takeover.
It was a friendly, a friendly takeover, as they say.
But and I was working in Vancouver at the time,
and I pretending to be busy at my my law job,
but it wasn't busy, so I was and I was
just spending hours a day just lining up radio gigs, you.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Know, it's like or a radio yeah, appearances.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
So we started Vancouver, went to Colowna, went to Kamloops,
and just kept going east and then got to Alberta,
hit all those stations and you guys were killing it
just driving all these stations. But the crazy thing was
that it started to work, like I remember, I think
Kamloops played it first, Coloonna played it first, Vancouver or nothing,
but it just kept going east and kept getting plays
and then ads, and it was like you got to
(13:27):
Alberta and also we got like Grand Prairie adding at
Lethbridge and we could just see the dominoes falling like
on the map, you know, and we got to sketch
when Regina Sastoon added heavy rotation. So then we're like
you're in our hometown and the songs like top fifteen
or something now and we're just like, holy shit, like
let's just keep going. And I think you went from
I think you went kept going east from Saastoon or
(13:49):
Winnipeg or something on your own. It was like, you know,
it's just the two of you in a car and
I think you flew right.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Is that what happened? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Well exactly man, And like you summarized it perfectly, and
it was it was crazy because it was like it
started out with we coordinate with you in the morning,
We're like, Hey, this is what we're going to hit.
This is one we have to get there. We usually yeah,
we and honestly it was a pep talk. But then
all of a sudden, the song was getting played before
we showed up, Like we started hearing it as we're
pulling up to the station, and it was crazy. And
(14:18):
then we check our phones every morning and it was
like added here, added here, added here, And then we
uh exactly that we came to this.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
It was almost like a crisis moment.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Hicks and I were sitting in Winnipeg and we talked
to you and we were like, we do not have
enough money to drive out to Ontario, and we don't
have enough money to fly both of us out there.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
So we made the decision.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Hicks drove from Winnipeg back to Vancouver, and I flew
out to Ontario, rented a car, this little Fiat that
I slept in a couple of nights and did the
whole did the whole thing out there, and did another
like week or week and a half out there, and
that we started getting ads in Oshawa. We got ads
all over the place, Like it was like we worked
(15:02):
that top five and you know, the label didn't know
what was happening, which was the story of our career
with them in general. They were like, I get we
don't know why you guys are successful, what's going on?
But it was crazy, Like honestly, it happened so quick too.
No one knew what to do. Like even us, we
were like, well, holy shit, we're like we're number five,
(15:22):
which was unheard of, like especially in those days, like
that's twenty twelve.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I think when that song came out, it was really tough.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It was so hard to break top ten, Like we
kept getting told like, well, if you make top twenty
like that, you know, call it a success. Yeah, and
like fifteen eleven ten, it was just like, holy shit,
it was.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It was crazy, man.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
It was honestly highlight of our career for sure, because
it was that moment. We'd been working for a decade
to that point. Like you said to start this episode,
great way to end this episode, which is like we
worked ten years to get a hit. No one believed
in it, No one believed we could do anything like that.
Even our team, the people that stood to make money
(16:04):
off of it, didn't believe in it. And then all
of a sudden, it was this crazy success and that
opened you know, that really blew things wide open for us.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah, I love that's a great way to end it.
Like it took us ten years and we got there
from just believing in ourselves, right like it so many
times we could have just listened to the Handlers and
not released that song, and we wouldn't be here talking
about obs, right, Like without Scarecrows, we wouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Here today, right because if Scarebrows would.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Have wouldn't have hit, we wouldn't have probably got the
next record with six oh four. And I mean, I
didn't want to think about it, but it was like
and again, even that whole the radio thing, it was
just that you can't even do that now. Stations won't
allow that anymore because they're just more shut down.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
But we did. It was just our own making.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
And you know, it's like, I give mad props to
everyone who helped us along the way. But it's also
like I look back and I'm like, and you, you
and Hicks driving across the country. You fly, and we
had no money. That's why you remember you texting me
like I'm sleeping in my feet, you know, And it's like,
it's not enough room to like lay it down fully
right now. I just reclined to see but we were
so effing broke and it's like, yeah, it's just I
(17:11):
look back and I'm like, I'm not sure if i
could do it again because it was just like so
much work, right, Yeah, So it was hard work, but
it ended up working out, and it's like, yeah, it
was a pretty it was a game changer for.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Us, absolutely, man, and more to come.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
We'll keep talking about the Red Album on the next episode.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Thanks for listening to One Bad Podcast.
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