October 3, 2024 • 18 mins
Welcome to One Bad Podcast.
Join Kurt and Shane as they kick off 20 years worth of stories, memories and advice for up-and-coming Canadian rock and roll bands.
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Join Kurt and Shane as they kick off 20 years worth of stories, memories and advice for up-and-coming Canadian rock and roll bands.
You can watch One Bad Podcast on YouTube, here: https://youtu.be/DIn99sZPj6U
Checkout One Bad Son online: https://www.onebadson.com/
Shane Volk: https://www.shaneconneryvolk.com/
Kurt Dahl: https://lawyerdrummer.com/
If you are a content creator, new or experienced, join our team!
If you'd like to advertise with us, head to our website.
Join the movement here: https://www.dufferinave.com/
Socials:
https://www.instagram.com/onebadson
https://www.facebook.com/onebadson/
https://x.com/OneBadSon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome the One Bad Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Here's your host Kadi and Shaner.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
So, Katie, we've been teeing it up now it's you know,
the Red album's in the can.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Black Buffalo.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We've gone through that whole era now it is the
maiden name of rock and roll era. And we started
writing this record and you know, just like the other
records we wrote, we started writing songs on the road.
The cool thing is to set this era up is
that one of the first songs we wrote, which I
kind of count as part of the Black Buffalo era
(00:38):
because we were writing it at the tail end of
that record, was Raging Bull, one of the first songs.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
That we had.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Worked on for this record, which man, we all knew
there was just something.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
There was something cool in that song.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
And I remember writing it at the Gem Spot in Saskatoon.
And I do love that about this era that it
was kind of like, no matter how this era turned out,
in some ways, like that was our song.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We wrote that tune.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
It was very much in that same kind of spirit
of us, like kind of taking our writing to the
next level.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
And yeah, I remember it was another one of.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Those Hicks riffs that was just like holy shit, that's cool,
like okay, like and we worked on it a lot.
I don't know if you remember how much we yeah
put into writing that song.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Well I remember, like and like, of course, once someone
makes a great suggestion, it's like you wonder how you
never saw it before.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
But the song never started with that riff.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
You know, the daana and like it didn't start it
remember just build it could just build, like damn, it's
just that whole build. Our idea was like just bill
bill bill Bill, and then and then kick into that riff,
like you know, a minute into the song, and that's
what you know. Gavin Brown, our producer, is one of
his strokes of genius, was like, always start with the
awesome catchy part. So start with start with the riff,
(01:57):
and then people will be hooked and then then you
do the building thing. And once we did, I was like,
oh my god, that's it, you know, And.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, well it's funny how that comes about, too, because
you know, I think that even our riffy kind of
songs that you sometimes don't know what that song is.
And when we started writing Raging Bullye, I think it
did start with kind of the verse, kind of the
verse riff right, and weirdly, a lot of our songs
do start that way, where we get like a catchy
(02:25):
verse riff. I remember we talked about Satellite Hotel was
like that the verse is so killer and it was
impossible to find a good chorus for it. But I
think it was kind of like, you don't know it's
a big rock song yet, you know, because we had
that build and we weren't sure, like, you know, is
this kind of more in the vein of Scarecrows even, right,
Because that's one thing about songwriting is you can take
(02:47):
just a nice, simple acoustic like Little Lick, and you
could blow that up into a huge rock tune, or
you could really strip it back.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
And I mean Scarecrows was like that. Like we it
was super.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Fast and it was slow, you know, but you're right,
it was kind of like when we moved the riff
up to the front, it was like, Okay, this is
like this is a rock song, this is like and
this might be one of the best songs we've written.
And it was almost It's weird when you're in the
middle of writing a song, it's like you kind of
don't even know what you're looking at. Yet sometimes you're
(03:20):
so deep into it. We've now joked about the fact
that we've written I don't know, probably thirty songs that
we were like, this has got a Springsteen vibe and
it turns out to be like Vinyl spin Burner. You know,
you're like, I don't know where we heard Springsteen. But
when you're in the middle of it, yeah, like you
don't know exactly what it is. And that's what a
good producer will help you do oftentimes, is like, man,
(03:41):
if you guys, take that cool riff and just like,
you know, make that a riff, make that a rock song,
You're like, oh, okay, yeah, all right, And then it
just went from there because we kind of had the
whole song just in a slightly different arrangement, right, and
the lyrics and everything, and like your beat on it
was crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
You just had like the slide and stuff was there.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So yeah, it's funny move the rift to the front
and start with the catchy part.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
That's a great, great little.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Songwriting detail for anybody out there writing songs.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
And honestly like that and that's my favorite, like my
favorite part about being a musician, like playing live for sure,
but also just like those moments of creation where you're
turning nothing into something. You know, like that's the magic, right,
and it's also the most frustrating.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You can't get the magic. You know you got.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
You got the rabbit and the hat, but you can't
pull it out sort of thing, you know. But it's like,
because sometimes we've had those two we've had songs that
have taken us we stop and finish this member Sunshine
State from like, yep, you know that's from two thousand
and nine, I would say, but yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Think my name is nobody.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I think there's a YouTube video from probably like two
thousand and seven. I somehow stumbled across it the other day.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I'm like, man, that is it. That's a cool idea.
And then yeah, we.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Tried to write that for probably six years before we
we gave.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Up on it.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Well, you know, the listeners will know that we're out
of ideas if we start really focusing on those old
those old songs, try to complete them. But you know,
that's always like the worst feeling. It's not where it's
frustrating feeling. It's like you got something great like Sunshine State,
such a great verse, and then we can never get
a good course, the courses. We tried ten different courses
(05:22):
and they all sucked. The verses could be some of
your catchiest verse versing ever. And then then it's the
songs where you're not thinking and and it just comes
out of nowhere. That's always like the you know, every song, right,
it's almost cliche. It's like it just songs come through me,
which is true, but it's like it's so cliche to
say that now, But it's like our biggest hit Scarecrows,
(05:44):
Blues Satellite, Raging Bulls, like just came out of nowhere
and then just essentially wrote itself. And those are the
songs that I just like, I live for those moments,
right because and it's I'd rather do that than rehearse
old songs or something. You know, Let's not rehearse the
set tomorrow, Let's just write new songs.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, Well, because you're a dude.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
It's a good point because it is like it's a
you get addicted to the moment, the breakthrough moment where
where a song starts to make sense, and everybody, especially
as a band, like you know, it's a magical thing
when you're in the room with a bunch of your
friends and it's like it's kind of like everybody starts
to pick up on the same thing at the same
(06:26):
time where it all starts to make sense, like it
is such you're right, like as amazing as playing live
and stuff, is that That might be one of my
favorite just like you said, like one of my favorite
moments is when when you get that the moment where
it all makes sense and it's like holy shit, wow,
like this is a song now like that just it's
really hard to compare that to anything because it is
(06:47):
like a it's a real magical feeling, you know. And
again to do that as a group, it's so cool.
Everyone's picking up on that vibe. And yeah, it's a
very magical experience for sure, and an equally frustrating experien
it's when it doesn't happen well.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
And so that's a good segue into made the name
because we so we had kind of four songs more
or less kind of worked out. We got Gavin, you know,
we want to get a producer who had had some hits,
you know, and and and had that sort of pop sensibility,
if you know.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And because he did a lot, he did a lot
of three days Grace stuff like their early stuff. So
it was you know, different for us, but also, like
I said in the last episode, we wanted to be
open and maybe be open to like not changing our
sound but just sort of like letting it go somewhere
or just be open to it doing something that we
were a little less in control of it as we
(07:40):
had been, right.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
So yeah, yeah, And so we went to the Warehouse,
which is like, you know, one of my favorite studios ever,
you know, AC DC and Aerosmith did records there or whatever, and.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It's like downtown Vancouver.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
That's the that is the uh to Brian Adams studio
for anybody out there that hasn't heard of the Warehouse before.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah, And it was like in those first four songs
were great. I remember sitting down with Gavin and he
had chatted with all of us and he's like, what
is your what are your goals for the band? You know,
like and he's like, be honest to yourself, like how
much do you want to make? How much money do
you want to make in a year?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, And then so we all sat, you know, I
was like, oh.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
I don't know what, like, let's you know, I don't
want to be selfish, but like whenever you know, it's like, but.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
It's that part was great.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
I remember, like I think everyone should every musician said,
someone should sit down with them and say, what are
your goals? What would what will be success for you?
Will define success? Is it making one hundred grand a year?
Or is it making a million a year? Or is
it making ten million year? I mean, yeah, the ten
mil maybe it's a stretch in the in today's industry.
But you know, if it's making a mill, then okay.
And then what kind of songs do you write? Are
(08:44):
they can they appeal to the masses. If they can't,
well then maybe you got to reassess the music and
make or how much money you want to make in
a year. But I remember having these discussions and and
then he's like, okay. One of the cool exercises was
like everyone, write down describe your typical fan of your band,
you know, one bad son, And so we did that,
(09:04):
you know, and then one of the things he said,
which is really helpful, is like your songs should be about,
you know, appealing to the fans, like writing about topics
that the fans could relate to. Right, so if the
fans if they're blue collar rock fans who like fast
cars and drinking beer and whatever, then the song should
(09:24):
connect to those fans, right, And I remember it was
like kind of an eye opener for us because I
think you and I both are like both kind of
real or thought that perhaps were more intellectual than some
of the sort of you know, base level rock fans, right,
and so it's that sort of But then again, so
was so was gor Downey. Goar Downey's lyrics were quite intellectual, right,
(09:48):
but he still appealed to all sorts of rock fans.
So we weren't quite on like the ac DC sort
of a level of in terms of what you're writing about.
And we definitely weren't like Three Days Grace. We're kind
of in our own in our own lane. But anyways,
the point is it was kind of really helpful to
be like, here's like do some real self analysis about
(10:09):
the band, and that'll help you decide what you have
to do to become as big as you can be.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And so yeah, we embarked.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
It was all about yeah, and it was about like
gaining clarity, right, Like you know, something that lyrically we
talked about was like just trying to be clear, you know,
and like not trying to be too nebulous with stuff
being a bit more clear, which you know, that's it
made a lot of sense, and it was like it
was I felt a lot of growth, Like you're right,
(10:38):
that Made the Name was kind of like done in
two havels. So I felt like the first those first
four songs, there was a lot of growth and kind
of did feel good and energizing. And those songs we
had it was Raging Bull, the promise, flying High, and
what was the fourth one that we did out there?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What was the for? Yeah, I remember flying High and promise.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That's funny.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Then whatever the fourth one was, it'll come to me
probably as soon as as soon as this episode's over,
I'll be like, oh shit, it was that one. But
this this kind of leads into like our era right
now and the EP we have coming out, because I remember,
this is kind of like there was so many things
happening at the same time that the first four songs
(11:24):
we did for Made in the Name. It did feel
like you've been talking about. It felt creative, It felt
kind of liberating to to talk to somebody not just
about like just songwriting, but more like what are your goals?
Like what are what is your band? You know, like
what do you think it is? What do you want
it to be? You know, and and picking it and
doing that thing, you know, And it was.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
A super like creative period.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
But it leads into this era now because I remember
we had four songs that were awesome, especially Raging Bowl.
We were like, man, that's a single, Like we'd be
hard pressed to write a better song than that, you know,
as a first single, Like who knows, you know, maybe
we would in the next six months.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
But I remember we were like, do we need to
do a full record?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Like, so now this is twenty probably twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
It came out in twenty seventeen, so we're already getting
into this era where like albums aren't what they used
to be, speaking of money and stuff. We were like, well,
do we need to dump a bunch of cash into
a full length record? Like we've got four killer songs,
especially this one tune that like we all kind of
feel like, no matter what we record, we'd probably release
(12:38):
this first anyways, right, And you and I talked about
like what if we just put Raging Bull out? We
could put out Raging Bull. You know cause Spotify and
Apple Music's already popping off, and we knew that, like
radio was starting to diminish a little bit and streaming
was starting to kind of take over. So we were like,
(12:59):
we need to start get on top of this and
and maybe we start kind of focusing on streaming. So
what if we release Raging Bull and we then put
out a B side, just like we just did this
with Sister Renegade, where it's just like put one out
for the fans, right, like why hold back on them,
you know, so, and then we can go on tour.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Because when you put a record.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Out, people need to know it's like you got a
single and a record, but then that's it, Like you
do a tour and you're now it's like you got
to do another record to keep the momentum going. So
we were like, what if we put out a single,
What if we put out a B side, go on tour,
see how that does. We could maybe record some more
while we're doing that, And you know, we were talking
(13:43):
about these creative ways, which is exactly how we're putting
music out now and so many bands are. And the
label was like no, like hard, no, it's gonna be
before you put a single out, we want the record finished,
like I felt.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Man.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
You know, we were kind of riding this high with
those four songs, and it was like maybe we could.
Part of what we're doing wrong too is sort of
just putting music out in an old world kind of
nineties sort of way, like why not throw singles out?
You know, use your money more wisely, right, And we started.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
To have this battle with the.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
You know, I don't want to try not to devolve
into a complainer here, but there were these moments where
we were like.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Dude, we could do this, like that would make sense.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Well then it was like nope, we signed a contract
that said full record, and so then that got delayed,
you know, because we could have put Raging Bull out
far sooner road the success and really wrote out the
success of that record for a long time. But you know,
as you know, as a in your other career as
(14:50):
an entertainment lawyer, it's like you get beholding the contracts
and there's not much you can do sometimes as an artist.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Well, and the thing is we like, let's say, yeah,
there there's a ten song livery commitment. We weren't saying
let's give them four and then that that'll meet it.
We said, let's do four, and then another four and
another two, like we were going to give ten, but
label said no. And as as with the benefit of hindsight,
it's like, instead of going with our plan, which I
think would have been way better, they sent us to
(15:19):
Toronto to record the rest of the record, and in
some ways that recording of the rest of the record
almost broke us up, you know, like it was a
low point. And we won't get into some of the
reasons why, but you know, part of it was some
of the issues with the producer and and you know,
and trying to put you know, honestly put a wedge
drive a wedge between us.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I would say, yeah, if we're being honest, you know.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
And so anyway, yeah, so the six hours cents Toronto
to finish the record and almost broke us up. So
so there we go.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I think we knew better in that instance.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
And but the sad reality is that labels, you know,
they always think they know better than their artists. You know,
they want to keep like the old saying, it's like
treat artists like mushrooms, you know, keep them in the
dark and feed them shit, you know. I don't know
if I've already used that on this podcast or not.
Have I no, Okay, I say it every other week,
so I forget who I've said it to. But it's
(16:13):
so true, right, That's like that's music industry one on one.
It's like, don't let the artists think they're in control,
because then they they start getting too demanding.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
You know, yeah, absolutely, man, absolutely, And you know we're
up on time on this one, and there's a couple
of different ways we can go because, like you're right,
like to finish this record out. I felt like after
we kind of had that discussion with the label, I
started to get that defeated feeling again of like we
we could be innovative, we could be you know, start
doing stuff differently. And it was kind of like, man,
(16:42):
you just had this feeling like the writing's on the
wall and it's kind of like we're just gonna do
the same old thing and maybe magically something will happen
out of that, and you realize as an artist, it's
like you've got to be proactive.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You can't just you know.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
It's it's like the like a very classic definition of
insaneity of like, let's do the same thing over and
over again, hoping for a different outcome. You're like, yeah,
you know, so, so we'll end this one here and
then yeah, because obviously we do get a number one
hit out of this record, and that obviously was massive,
Like there were amazing things came out of this era
(17:17):
as much as it was also it was like the
very light and dark era for obs.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So we'll get into that one next time, buddy.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Okay, Well, and I was looking at my my Spotify.
I wasn't not listening. I was looking up to try
for what that fourth song was. So was it either
like a Weapon or Rise Up?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Was it Rise Up? Maybe?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I think it was rise Up? I think like a
weapons up?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, like weapon was the Toronto Jam? I think?
Speaker 4 (17:39):
But yes, rise Up? But did you know like the
Big Tom's I think that was at the warehouse. So
that was the fourth song. I think Rise Up.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Okay, great, Well, finally we solved it because we got
to do it live.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Okay, sweet, Well, well we'll circle back next episode with
a number one song and see where that leads us.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
But hey, peace, buddy, thanks for listening to One Bad Podcast.
Welcome the One Bad Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Here's your host Kadi and Shaner.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
So, Katie, we've been teeing it up now it's you know,
the Red album's in the can.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Black Buffalo.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We've gone through that whole era now it is the
maiden name of rock and roll era. And we started
writing this record and you know, just like the other
records we wrote, we started writing songs on the road.
The cool thing is to set this era up is
that one of the first songs we wrote, which I
kind of count as part of the Black Buffalo era
(00:38):
because we were writing it at the tail end of
that record, was Raging Bull, one of the first songs.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
That we had.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Worked on for this record, which man, we all knew
there was just something.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
There was something cool in that song.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
And I remember writing it at the Gem Spot in Saskatoon.
And I do love that about this era that it
was kind of like, no matter how this era turned out,
in some ways, like that was our song.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We wrote that tune.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
It was very much in that same kind of spirit
of us, like kind of taking our writing to the
next level.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
And yeah, I remember it was another one of.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Those Hicks riffs that was just like holy shit, that's cool,
like okay, like and we worked on it a lot.
I don't know if you remember how much we yeah
put into writing that song.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Well I remember, like and like, of course, once someone
makes a great suggestion, it's like you wonder how you
never saw it before.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
But the song never started with that riff.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
You know, the daana and like it didn't start it
remember just build it could just build, like damn, it's
just that whole build. Our idea was like just bill
bill bill Bill, and then and then kick into that riff,
like you know, a minute into the song, and that's
what you know. Gavin Brown, our producer, is one of
his strokes of genius, was like, always start with the
awesome catchy part. So start with start with the riff,
(01:57):
and then people will be hooked and then then you
do the building thing. And once we did, I was like,
oh my god, that's it, you know, And.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, well it's funny how that comes about, too, because
you know, I think that even our riffy kind of
songs that you sometimes don't know what that song is.
And when we started writing Raging Bullye, I think it
did start with kind of the verse, kind of the
verse riff right, and weirdly, a lot of our songs
do start that way, where we get like a catchy
(02:25):
verse riff. I remember we talked about Satellite Hotel was
like that the verse is so killer and it was
impossible to find a good chorus for it. But I
think it was kind of like, you don't know it's
a big rock song yet, you know, because we had
that build and we weren't sure, like, you know, is
this kind of more in the vein of Scarecrows even, right,
Because that's one thing about songwriting is you can take
(02:47):
just a nice, simple acoustic like Little Lick, and you
could blow that up into a huge rock tune, or
you could really strip it back.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
And I mean Scarecrows was like that. Like we it
was super.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Fast and it was slow, you know, but you're right,
it was kind of like when we moved the riff
up to the front, it was like, Okay, this is
like this is a rock song, this is like and
this might be one of the best songs we've written.
And it was almost It's weird when you're in the
middle of writing a song, it's like you kind of
don't even know what you're looking at. Yet sometimes you're
(03:20):
so deep into it. We've now joked about the fact
that we've written I don't know, probably thirty songs that
we were like, this has got a Springsteen vibe and
it turns out to be like Vinyl spin Burner. You know,
you're like, I don't know where we heard Springsteen. But
when you're in the middle of it, yeah, like you
don't know exactly what it is. And that's what a
good producer will help you do oftentimes, is like, man,
(03:41):
if you guys, take that cool riff and just like,
you know, make that a riff, make that a rock song,
You're like, oh, okay, yeah, all right, And then it
just went from there because we kind of had the
whole song just in a slightly different arrangement, right, and
the lyrics and everything, and like your beat on it
was crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
You just had like the slide and stuff was there.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So yeah, it's funny move the rift to the front
and start with the catchy part.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
That's a great, great little.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Songwriting detail for anybody out there writing songs.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
And honestly like that and that's my favorite, like my
favorite part about being a musician, like playing live for sure,
but also just like those moments of creation where you're
turning nothing into something. You know, like that's the magic, right,
and it's also the most frustrating.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You can't get the magic. You know you got.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
You got the rabbit and the hat, but you can't
pull it out sort of thing, you know. But it's like,
because sometimes we've had those two we've had songs that
have taken us we stop and finish this member Sunshine
State from like, yep, you know that's from two thousand
and nine, I would say, but yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Think my name is nobody.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I think there's a YouTube video from probably like two
thousand and seven. I somehow stumbled across it the other day.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I'm like, man, that is it. That's a cool idea.
And then yeah, we.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Tried to write that for probably six years before we
we gave.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Up on it.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Well, you know, the listeners will know that we're out
of ideas if we start really focusing on those old
those old songs, try to complete them. But you know,
that's always like the worst feeling. It's not where it's
frustrating feeling. It's like you got something great like Sunshine State,
such a great verse, and then we can never get
a good course, the courses. We tried ten different courses
(05:22):
and they all sucked. The verses could be some of
your catchiest verse versing ever. And then then it's the
songs where you're not thinking and and it just comes
out of nowhere. That's always like the you know, every song, right,
it's almost cliche. It's like it just songs come through me,
which is true, but it's like it's so cliche to
say that now, But it's like our biggest hit Scarecrows,
(05:44):
Blues Satellite, Raging Bulls, like just came out of nowhere
and then just essentially wrote itself. And those are the
songs that I just like, I live for those moments,
right because and it's I'd rather do that than rehearse
old songs or something. You know, Let's not rehearse the
set tomorrow, Let's just write new songs.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, Well, because you're a dude.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
It's a good point because it is like it's a
you get addicted to the moment, the breakthrough moment where
where a song starts to make sense, and everybody, especially
as a band, like you know, it's a magical thing
when you're in the room with a bunch of your
friends and it's like it's kind of like everybody starts
to pick up on the same thing at the same
(06:26):
time where it all starts to make sense, like it
is such you're right, like as amazing as playing live
and stuff, is that That might be one of my
favorite just like you said, like one of my favorite
moments is when when you get that the moment where
it all makes sense and it's like holy shit, wow,
like this is a song now like that just it's
really hard to compare that to anything because it is
(06:47):
like a it's a real magical feeling, you know. And
again to do that as a group, it's so cool.
Everyone's picking up on that vibe. And yeah, it's a
very magical experience for sure, and an equally frustrating experien
it's when it doesn't happen well.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
And so that's a good segue into made the name
because we so we had kind of four songs more
or less kind of worked out. We got Gavin, you know,
we want to get a producer who had had some hits,
you know, and and and had that sort of pop sensibility,
if you know.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And because he did a lot, he did a lot
of three days Grace stuff like their early stuff. So
it was you know, different for us, but also, like
I said in the last episode, we wanted to be
open and maybe be open to like not changing our
sound but just sort of like letting it go somewhere
or just be open to it doing something that we
were a little less in control of it as we
(07:40):
had been, right.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
So yeah, yeah, And so we went to the Warehouse,
which is like, you know, one of my favorite studios ever,
you know, AC DC and Aerosmith did records there or whatever, and.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It's like downtown Vancouver.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
That's the that is the uh to Brian Adams studio
for anybody out there that hasn't heard of the Warehouse before.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah, And it was like in those first four songs
were great. I remember sitting down with Gavin and he
had chatted with all of us and he's like, what
is your what are your goals for the band? You know,
like and he's like, be honest to yourself, like how
much do you want to make? How much money do
you want to make in a year?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, And then so we all sat, you know, I
was like, oh.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
I don't know what, like, let's you know, I don't
want to be selfish, but like whenever you know, it's like, but.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
It's that part was great.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
I remember, like I think everyone should every musician said,
someone should sit down with them and say, what are
your goals? What would what will be success for you?
Will define success? Is it making one hundred grand a year?
Or is it making a million a year? Or is
it making ten million year? I mean, yeah, the ten
mil maybe it's a stretch in the in today's industry.
But you know, if it's making a mill, then okay.
And then what kind of songs do you write? Are
(08:44):
they can they appeal to the masses. If they can't,
well then maybe you got to reassess the music and
make or how much money you want to make in
a year. But I remember having these discussions and and
then he's like, okay. One of the cool exercises was
like everyone, write down describe your typical fan of your band,
you know, one bad son, And so we did that,
(09:04):
you know, and then one of the things he said,
which is really helpful, is like your songs should be about,
you know, appealing to the fans, like writing about topics
that the fans could relate to. Right, so if the
fans if they're blue collar rock fans who like fast
cars and drinking beer and whatever, then the song should
(09:24):
connect to those fans, right, And I remember it was
like kind of an eye opener for us because I
think you and I both are like both kind of
real or thought that perhaps were more intellectual than some
of the sort of you know, base level rock fans, right,
and so it's that sort of But then again, so
was so was gor Downey. Goar Downey's lyrics were quite intellectual, right,
(09:48):
but he still appealed to all sorts of rock fans.
So we weren't quite on like the ac DC sort
of a level of in terms of what you're writing about.
And we definitely weren't like Three Days Grace. We're kind
of in our own in our own lane. But anyways,
the point is it was kind of really helpful to
be like, here's like do some real self analysis about
(10:09):
the band, and that'll help you decide what you have
to do to become as big as you can be.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And so yeah, we embarked.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
It was all about yeah, and it was about like
gaining clarity, right, Like you know, something that lyrically we
talked about was like just trying to be clear, you know,
and like not trying to be too nebulous with stuff
being a bit more clear, which you know, that's it
made a lot of sense, and it was like it
was I felt a lot of growth, Like you're right,
(10:38):
that Made the Name was kind of like done in
two havels. So I felt like the first those first
four songs, there was a lot of growth and kind
of did feel good and energizing. And those songs we
had it was Raging Bull, the promise, flying High, and
what was the fourth one that we did out there?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What was the for? Yeah, I remember flying High and promise.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That's funny.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Then whatever the fourth one was, it'll come to me
probably as soon as as soon as this episode's over,
I'll be like, oh shit, it was that one. But
this this kind of leads into like our era right
now and the EP we have coming out, because I remember,
this is kind of like there was so many things
happening at the same time that the first four songs
(11:24):
we did for Made in the Name. It did feel
like you've been talking about. It felt creative, It felt
kind of liberating to to talk to somebody not just
about like just songwriting, but more like what are your goals?
Like what are what is your band? You know, like
what do you think it is? What do you want
it to be? You know, and and picking it and
doing that thing, you know, And it was.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
A super like creative period.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
But it leads into this era now because I remember
we had four songs that were awesome, especially Raging Bowl.
We were like, man, that's a single, Like we'd be
hard pressed to write a better song than that, you know,
as a first single, Like who knows, you know, maybe
we would in the next six months.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
But I remember we were like, do we need to
do a full record?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Like, so now this is twenty probably twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
It came out in twenty seventeen, so we're already getting
into this era where like albums aren't what they used
to be, speaking of money and stuff. We were like, well,
do we need to dump a bunch of cash into
a full length record? Like we've got four killer songs,
especially this one tune that like we all kind of
feel like, no matter what we record, we'd probably release
(12:38):
this first anyways, right, And you and I talked about
like what if we just put Raging Bull out? We
could put out Raging Bull. You know cause Spotify and
Apple Music's already popping off, and we knew that, like
radio was starting to diminish a little bit and streaming
was starting to kind of take over. So we were like,
(12:59):
we need to start get on top of this and
and maybe we start kind of focusing on streaming. So
what if we release Raging Bull and we then put
out a B side, just like we just did this
with Sister Renegade, where it's just like put one out
for the fans, right, like why hold back on them,
you know, so, and then we can go on tour.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Because when you put a record.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Out, people need to know it's like you got a
single and a record, but then that's it, Like you
do a tour and you're now it's like you got
to do another record to keep the momentum going. So
we were like, what if we put out a single,
What if we put out a B side, go on tour,
see how that does. We could maybe record some more
while we're doing that, And you know, we were talking
(13:43):
about these creative ways, which is exactly how we're putting
music out now and so many bands are. And the
label was like no, like hard, no, it's gonna be
before you put a single out, we want the record finished,
like I felt.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Man.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
You know, we were kind of riding this high with
those four songs, and it was like maybe we could.
Part of what we're doing wrong too is sort of
just putting music out in an old world kind of
nineties sort of way, like why not throw singles out?
You know, use your money more wisely, right, And we started.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
To have this battle with the.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
You know, I don't want to try not to devolve
into a complainer here, but there were these moments where
we were like.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Dude, we could do this, like that would make sense.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Well then it was like nope, we signed a contract
that said full record, and so then that got delayed,
you know, because we could have put Raging Bull out
far sooner road the success and really wrote out the
success of that record for a long time. But you know,
as you know, as a in your other career as
(14:50):
an entertainment lawyer, it's like you get beholding the contracts
and there's not much you can do sometimes as an artist.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Well, and the thing is we like, let's say, yeah,
there there's a ten song livery commitment. We weren't saying
let's give them four and then that that'll meet it.
We said, let's do four, and then another four and
another two, like we were going to give ten, but
label said no. And as as with the benefit of hindsight,
it's like, instead of going with our plan, which I
think would have been way better, they sent us to
(15:19):
Toronto to record the rest of the record, and in
some ways that recording of the rest of the record
almost broke us up, you know, like it was a
low point. And we won't get into some of the
reasons why, but you know, part of it was some
of the issues with the producer and and you know,
and trying to put you know, honestly put a wedge
drive a wedge between us.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I would say, yeah, if we're being honest, you know.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
And so anyway, yeah, so the six hours cents Toronto
to finish the record and almost broke us up. So
so there we go.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I think we knew better in that instance.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
And but the sad reality is that labels, you know,
they always think they know better than their artists. You know,
they want to keep like the old saying, it's like
treat artists like mushrooms, you know, keep them in the
dark and feed them shit, you know. I don't know
if I've already used that on this podcast or not.
Have I no, Okay, I say it every other week,
so I forget who I've said it to. But it's
(16:13):
so true, right, That's like that's music industry one on one.
It's like, don't let the artists think they're in control,
because then they they start getting too demanding.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
You know, yeah, absolutely, man, absolutely, And you know we're
up on time on this one, and there's a couple
of different ways we can go because, like you're right,
like to finish this record out. I felt like after
we kind of had that discussion with the label, I
started to get that defeated feeling again of like we
we could be innovative, we could be you know, start
doing stuff differently. And it was kind of like, man,
(16:42):
you just had this feeling like the writing's on the
wall and it's kind of like we're just gonna do
the same old thing and maybe magically something will happen
out of that, and you realize as an artist, it's
like you've got to be proactive.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You can't just you know.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
It's it's like the like a very classic definition of
insaneity of like, let's do the same thing over and
over again, hoping for a different outcome. You're like, yeah,
you know, so, so we'll end this one here and
then yeah, because obviously we do get a number one
hit out of this record, and that obviously was massive,
Like there were amazing things came out of this era
(17:17):
as much as it was also it was like the
very light and dark era for obs.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So we'll get into that one next time, buddy.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Okay, Well, and I was looking at my my Spotify.
I wasn't not listening. I was looking up to try
for what that fourth song was. So was it either
like a Weapon or Rise Up?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Was it Rise Up? Maybe?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I think it was rise Up? I think like a
weapons up?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, like weapon was the Toronto Jam? I think?
Speaker 4 (17:39):
But yes, rise Up? But did you know like the
Big Tom's I think that was at the warehouse. So
that was the fourth song. I think Rise Up.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Okay, great, Well, finally we solved it because we got
to do it live.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Okay, sweet, Well, well we'll circle back next episode with
a number one song and see where that leads us.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
But hey, peace, buddy, thanks for listening to One Bad Podcast.
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