October 11, 2024 • 17 mins
Welcome to One Bad Podcast.
Join Kurt and Shane as they kick off 20 years worth of stories, memories and advice for up-and-coming Canadian rock and roll bands.
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Join Kurt and Shane as they kick off 20 years worth of stories, memories and advice for up-and-coming Canadian rock and roll bands.
You can watch One Bad Podcast on YouTube, here: https://youtu.be/DIn99sZPj6U
Checkout One Bad Son online: https://www.onebadson.com/
Shane Volk: https://www.shaneconneryvolk.com/
Kurt Dahl: https://lawyerdrummer.com/
If you are a content creator, new or experienced, join our team!
If you'd like to advertise with us, head to our website.
Join the movement here: https://www.dufferinave.com/
Socials:
https://www.instagram.com/onebadson
https://www.facebook.com/onebadson/
https://x.com/OneBadSon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome the One Bad Podcast. Here's your host, Kadi and Shaner.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
All right, so Katie, we're still talking made in the
Name of Rock and roll.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I think we established that rise.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Up was the fourth song when we were out in
Vancouver recording, and you know, as we talked through a
lot of this stuff, there's these like kind of fuzzy
periods where I sort of lose track of how much
time was in between. But we did the four songs,
including Raging Bull, the promise, Flying High, and a guess rise.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Up was the other one, I think, so, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, So we did those in Vancouver and we were
all really pumped. It was a great experience, and then
we finished the record out in Toronto. Do you remember
how long after or what the gap in between was?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, good question.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I think it was like, I'm guessing like somewhere between
three and six months, you know, three scenes too short.
I think it was longer because we always back in
those days, we had to sort of convince the label, right,
We'd be like, we'd have to give him a budget
and show them the songs, show them that we actually
could can write hits.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
So let's say half a year. I bet half a year.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
But in that time, is that when Rage Bull was
released and went number one or is that after? Yeah,
I don't recall the details. We should get a get
some obs historians on here.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
But yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Need like like we need Paul Kennedy or we need
like your buddy Craig Craig all of our friend Craig
Krugsy to give us the details on us. But I
do remember like between we did because we didn't have
the whole record written, so we had those four songs
and then there was a bunch of writing in between,
and I remember touring. Maybe this is so fuzzy because
(01:47):
a lot of this it runs together, because there was
like we're on tour, where we come home, we're back
in writing. I remember our producer flew out and we
did a bunch of writing in Saskatoon because I remember
him sleeping on the couch while we were writing songs.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Yeah, I remember he had party too hard and so
it was like, yeah, he was just laying on the
couch for like five hours and we were trying to
write stuff like.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
The promise and that kind of stuff. I remember that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, well, and I because I remember I think next
episode we should do we should do like a full
chat about Raging Ball going number one and all the
cool things that sort of happened around that. But you
it's a hazy time somehow in my mind because I
just I remember Raging Bull went number one.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
When we were on tour. I remember we, uh we.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Got a photo taken outside the White House of Rock.
Uh in uh, where's the White House of Rock again?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Well? St Catherine's.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, I think it was Saint Catherine's and we had
a photo we learned.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Anyway, we'll get into that next time, but I remember
that happened we were on tour, so possibly we were
on tour then we came home and finished the record.
Because I think you're right, like it's always this thing
where you're like trying to convince the label. First we
had to convince them that we can write hits. Now
we're convincing them that we can still write hits, and
they still have no idea how or why it's happening.
(03:06):
But I do remember, yeah, like we there was kind
of that like I think we touched on it before
where it was kind of like are we doing a
full record orre we you know, because I think Raging
Bull was at least out and you know, doing well,
and we're like, can we just kind of tour on this,
and but then word came down note we won a
full record, and so we had to finish this thing.
(03:29):
And I yeah that it was like the front half
of Made in the Name of Rock and Roll in
the back half of Made in the Name of Rock
and Hole felt like two different, two different experiences, for sure,
That's how I felt.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, And it's so interesting.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I mean, I think and this is I think important
for any up and coming band, is like and we
talked about this lot at the time, I think, or
maybe it was after the fact, once we had some perspective,
but we have I didn't like how we the production
of that record, you know, like just I've said that
to you before, I'll say it here. You know, it's
like the production because the idea was like I think
(04:03):
we've always been sort of a live band and a
live off the floor sort of band in the studio,
and we love all the bands that have that ability,
like they can play, they're tight, so they can play
in the studio, but it's not all like compartmentalized, right,
and so like LED's Uppen for example, I mean they
got in a room and there's some great production happening
by a page, but it wasn't like it didn't sound
(04:24):
like Three Days Grace, right, And that's I think, as
we talked about in previous episodes, we're trying to break
through in the US, and I think our producer, who
was known for producing Three Days Grace, et cetera, wanted
to push us sort of in that direction.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So for me it was kind of.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Crazy, and listeners probably maybe this would sound crazy, but like,
remember we recorded the drums without symbols on them, remember,
and it was like.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, I remember you air you were air drumming symbols.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah. Like, And so the idea listener is like you isolate.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
It's pure isolation, right, So every like you know, John
Bond's playing, you can hear all everything you hear is
his high his high hat going up and down, and
you can hear his his kick pedal kind of creaking.
And I love that that it sounds more more real.
But with like three Days Great stuff, or with some
of the stuff on this record, they like every Snare
hit was like done in isolation. Every Tom Field done
(05:17):
in isolation. And so there's no bleed from the symbols
into those mics. So it's all just really like you
almost sort of Frankenstein the drum sound after the fact
by putting all the parts together. But as a player
it takes out. For me, it took away all my feel,
and I'm a feel player, so it's like so basically yeah, like,
so there's no symbols. I think you probably have footage
(05:37):
at the time, and I probably just had a major
frown on my face because I'm like trying it like
air drumming symbols while just hitting the kick and the
snare basically, right, So there's no there's no feel whatsoever.
It actually makes me kind of angry just talking about it.
But so then and then and then so you record
all the snare and and the kick and the and
(05:57):
the toms, and then afterwards you go through and try
to hit the simbles.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
But you you know, they're all.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Connected for a field player like me, right, so to
try to like take them apart and put them back together,
it's like it was just crazy. So anyways, so we
did that, and then also I think that you know
some of the guitar ideas, and then I want to
hear from you, but I think the way that the
producer pushed you vocally and lyrically, I just felt like
(06:24):
he you know, there's a line between pushing someone out
of their comfort zone to sort of achieve their best,
and there's then across that line is like trying to
change someone to be something they're not, And I felt
like it was a bit of that.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
But I'm curious to hear what you what you thought there?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, yeah, man, I mean it's we had that similar
kind of experience and it was for me. Yeah, it
was interesting because we I think we had talked about
this a little bit before, but the point behind this
whole record was that we approached it the way we
approached the Red album.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
When we you know, we met Danny Craig and.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
It was like he was basically like, you guys need
to be better players. And it was a sobering moment
for us to like, Okay, let's step up and if
we want to be on the radio, like there's there
must be some like alchemy behind that that we're it's
more than just writing great songs.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
And so we through Danny, we kind of learned like,
oh shit, like we got a long way to go
to become like really good players. But also we found
that some of the recording techniques he's using are like
different than we'd ever kind of experienced. And you know,
there is there's stuff that a great producer can bring
and it's it's very like X factor kind of stuff
where you're like, I can't really quantify why that's working well,
(07:37):
but it is, you know. And we did that with
Danny and it's like boom, we got a you know,
we got a top five.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
And you know, so.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
After Black Buffalo We've talked about this before, we didn't
have a number one. That was kind of like in
our minds, we were like, that's where you go on
the radio if we're you know, we've we've maxed out
at number five, let's try to get that number one.
So we had the same approach in that, like we
don't really know what this kind of element is that
we're missing. That is like some stations just aren't picking
(08:07):
up our songs, and so it was, you know, we
did not.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Enjoy this part of the process. I feel like.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Those first four songs were cool because it was kind
of opened us up to new stuff and opened us
up to new ways.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
To write lyrics or play and all of that.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But like the back half of the album, there was,
like you said, there was like this it was a
different vibe. It was kind of like it went from
like a producer who was trying to get the best
out of us to a situation where you sort of
felt whether you were like being taken advantage of or
somebody was just trying to like impose their shit on
(08:44):
everything as opposed to bringing the best out of you.
And you know, because we really committed to like giving
ourselves over to that producer and saying like, hey, if
we can achieve that number one, that level of success
could like really.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Blow things open.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
And I mean a lot of like it's cool talking
about this stuff, Katie, because a lot of it is
like it's a cautionary tale.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
But it also is like we did the same approach to.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
The Red album that we did with Made in the Name,
and one of them really kind of worked out really well,
and obviously Made in the Name the it worked out
and that we got a number one, but I think
after the fact, you know, we really sat down and
we were like, I'm pretty sure we would have, you know,
being that raging bull was a killer track. I don't
(09:30):
think there was anything extra in there, you know that
we were kind of being put through that pushed that
to number one. I think that kind of would have
happened on the next record anyways, And I think we
kind of had that collective like a lot of this
shit was just bullshit, and it was like a wake
up call in that, like you, it's good to give
yourself over, get out of your own head as a band,
(09:52):
get over your own shit. Like even you trying that
with the drums was huge. It was like, well, I
don't know, I don't really like it, but like maybe
there's something in this, you know. And I remember you
actually staying to me at the time like maybe I'll
like this, like I don't. You were very open, and
we were very open until it was over and we
were like that fucking sucked, like I did not, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Then honestly lyrically and stuff too.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I mean, I had a lot to learn with just
being more open to a lot of ideas.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
But then it kind of got to the point where
I felt like I was being told what to do,
and you.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Started to realize that there were hangers on around trying
to get paid not trying to make a great record,
you know.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
That was kind of that.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
When that sorted to hit me, I was like, Oh,
there's a bunch of extra people here, and you know,
sure enough, we're not going to get too deep into
this part. But when the bill came in and it
was like, oh, you guys are being charged for this, this,
and that, you're like, oh, I see the extra things
that were happening behind the scenes, which you know, as
an entertainment lawyer, I'm sure you've like come across that
(10:52):
with other bands too and other acts, right, Like, all
of a sudden, you're like, holy shit, all the stuff
that was happening, like we're on the hook.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
For right, Yeah, it's so interesting, And you're right. I
think there's a certain like when you put yourself in
the hands of a producer, like there's a certain amount
of vulnerability there, right, And and some bads never do
that they never give like become vulnerable. And then I
think I would argue they never make great art because
great art goes hand in hand with being vulnerable, right, Like,
(11:20):
So yeah, I mean credit to us for actually like
putting ourselves out there and trying those things. And you're right,
with Dany, I think so when you're in the hands
of a producer, they've got a lot of power and
they could take it one way or the other.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
They could take it to a negative place or not.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Danny was great. He brought out the best in us,
and I think you're right with Made in the Name.
I feel like it just it's sort of instead of
bringing out the best in one bad son, it tried
to change one bad son to achieve a certain thing.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And in a way, I think, just on a personal level,
I feel like it sort of drove a wedge between
us two as members. You know, It's like.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Instead of being like us against the world, it was
sort of like us against each other. Which that's a
weird dynamic for a producer to throw in there, but
it just that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
When we'd never really experienced that before, which was kind
of like again, I think because we went into the
process so open right that it was sort of like
we did get taken advantage of to a point where
it was like, you know, we were sort of getting
turned on each other, and it was it was a
really strange moment to try to pick out what is like,
(12:32):
you know, what is really happening.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Am I just being selfish?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Am I like not embracing this experience or like, you know,
but I think we kind of finally collectively were like aware,
you know, there's so much there is an ugly side
to this industry in many ways, and we were privy
to it in ways that we're not even going to
mention on this podcast, but like, you know it is,
(12:56):
You're right in that, Like that is how great art
is made by putting being vulnerable, putting yourself out there,
and honestly, it's happened with a lot of bands where
you also like, luckily the record turned out great, like
some of my favorite tunes, like Hurricane is one of
my favorite songs that we've done, and even though I
wish the production was a bit different, you're still like
that was a great tune.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Like I love that song, you know, like a Weapon
was cool.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Like it's not like the songs ended up bad or something,
you know what I mean, because the record ends up
being arguably our most successful record in a way. But
you know, as the artist, you don't you look back
on the experience and you don't feel that kind of
like oh shit, like it was like it was fun
to make it. Songs were killer. You know, it's not
(13:40):
like a black spot on our career. But somehow, I
think between, like you said, between the band, things got
really strained and it was you know, it was really
it was just difficult on us until we I think,
sort of collectively got together and chatted about it and
and kind of came to terms with how we were
all really feeling about it.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
You know, yeah, totally. That's great to put it.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Like, Yeah, I'm still proud of the record, right, I think,
And I'm curious. I often ask fans, you know, I
always want to hear what fans think of each of
the records of like those Big three, you know. But yeah,
it's like the songs are to me. There there's stuff
I'm really proud of. There's just like sort of darkness
I associate with the record, which is also the album.
(14:23):
The album a kind of reflects the darkness.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
You know. It's like that that ominous skull is my
drum sound.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
You know, well it's it's true, man, And it was
like you know, yeah, I mean, and you know what
I'll say this, it's like for bands listening to this,
you know, you cannot what's the right way to put this,
Like you can't avoid every pitfall in this industry, and honestly,
like you're gonna have to try some different shit. Like
(14:50):
I said now, numerous times after recording as many records
as we had, we were like, we want to keep
pushing the envelope and trying some new stuff. And I
mean sometimes it might completely backfire. You look at like
you notable backfires like metallicas sant Anger, you know, but
like good on those guys, for that's a case of like,
(15:11):
we don't really know what to do next, and so
if we're gonna keep going, we gotta at some point
you don't want to just rehash the same shit every
single time you go into the studio. So there is
a level of pushing yourself. But in pushing yourself, you
might go too far or it might come out in
a way that you're not happy with. And that's just
I mean, that's just how art is, you know what
I mean. Not everything is the Mona Lisa. Or you
(15:36):
might have painted the Mona Lisa but absolutely hated painting
it even though you were happy about how much it
how well it turned out, right, So and that's kind
of feels like the book on Made in the Name,
Like you sum that up perfectly. It was like proud
of the songs, happy with so much of it, but
it is like there's just some shit memories in there,
you know, but there's a great memory that comes out
(15:58):
of a KD. We're coming up on time on this episode,
which is our first number one hit.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
You know, we we were gunning for it. We'd worked
for it.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I've had so many bands, I'm sure you have to ask, like,
how do I get on the radio?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
How do I chart?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Like how do I you know, we worked on that
for up to that point, what is that thirteen years
or fourteen? So next episode, let's talk about the number
one and all the things that came with it and
the things that didn't.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
How's that sound sounds good?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Body?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
All right, dude, thanks for listening to One Bad Podcast.
Welcome the One Bad Podcast. Here's your host, Kadi and Shaner.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
All right, so Katie, we're still talking made in the
Name of Rock and roll.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I think we established that rise.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Up was the fourth song when we were out in
Vancouver recording, and you know, as we talked through a
lot of this stuff, there's these like kind of fuzzy
periods where I sort of lose track of how much
time was in between. But we did the four songs,
including Raging Bull, the promise, Flying High, and a guess rise.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Up was the other one, I think, so, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, So we did those in Vancouver and we were
all really pumped. It was a great experience, and then
we finished the record out in Toronto. Do you remember
how long after or what the gap in between was?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, good question.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I think it was like, I'm guessing like somewhere between
three and six months, you know, three scenes too short.
I think it was longer because we always back in
those days, we had to sort of convince the label, right,
We'd be like, we'd have to give him a budget
and show them the songs, show them that we actually
could can write hits.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
So let's say half a year. I bet half a year.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
But in that time, is that when Rage Bull was
released and went number one or is that after? Yeah,
I don't recall the details. We should get a get
some obs historians on here.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
But yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Need like like we need Paul Kennedy or we need
like your buddy Craig Craig all of our friend Craig
Krugsy to give us the details on us. But I
do remember like between we did because we didn't have
the whole record written, so we had those four songs
and then there was a bunch of writing in between,
and I remember touring. Maybe this is so fuzzy because
(01:47):
a lot of this it runs together, because there was
like we're on tour, where we come home, we're back
in writing. I remember our producer flew out and we
did a bunch of writing in Saskatoon because I remember
him sleeping on the couch while we were writing songs.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Yeah, I remember he had party too hard and so
it was like, yeah, he was just laying on the
couch for like five hours and we were trying to
write stuff like.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
The promise and that kind of stuff. I remember that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, well, and I because I remember I think next
episode we should do we should do like a full
chat about Raging Ball going number one and all the
cool things that sort of happened around that. But you
it's a hazy time somehow in my mind because I
just I remember Raging Bull went number one.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
When we were on tour. I remember we, uh we.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Got a photo taken outside the White House of Rock.
Uh in uh, where's the White House of Rock again?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Well? St Catherine's.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, I think it was Saint Catherine's and we had
a photo we learned.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Anyway, we'll get into that next time, but I remember
that happened we were on tour, so possibly we were
on tour then we came home and finished the record.
Because I think you're right, like it's always this thing
where you're like trying to convince the label. First we
had to convince them that we can write hits. Now
we're convincing them that we can still write hits, and
they still have no idea how or why it's happening.
(03:06):
But I do remember, yeah, like we there was kind
of that like I think we touched on it before
where it was kind of like are we doing a
full record orre we you know, because I think Raging
Bull was at least out and you know, doing well,
and we're like, can we just kind of tour on this,
and but then word came down note we won a
full record, and so we had to finish this thing.
(03:29):
And I yeah that it was like the front half
of Made in the Name of Rock and Roll in
the back half of Made in the Name of Rock
and Hole felt like two different, two different experiences, for sure,
That's how I felt.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, And it's so interesting.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I mean, I think and this is I think important
for any up and coming band, is like and we
talked about this lot at the time, I think, or
maybe it was after the fact, once we had some perspective,
but we have I didn't like how we the production
of that record, you know, like just I've said that
to you before, I'll say it here. You know, it's
like the production because the idea was like I think
(04:03):
we've always been sort of a live band and a
live off the floor sort of band in the studio,
and we love all the bands that have that ability,
like they can play, they're tight, so they can play
in the studio, but it's not all like compartmentalized, right,
and so like LED's Uppen for example, I mean they
got in a room and there's some great production happening
by a page, but it wasn't like it didn't sound
(04:24):
like Three Days Grace, right, And that's I think, as
we talked about in previous episodes, we're trying to break
through in the US, and I think our producer, who
was known for producing Three Days Grace, et cetera, wanted
to push us sort of in that direction.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So for me it was kind of.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Crazy, and listeners probably maybe this would sound crazy, but like,
remember we recorded the drums without symbols on them, remember,
and it was like.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, I remember you air you were air drumming symbols.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah. Like, And so the idea listener is like you isolate.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
It's pure isolation, right, So every like you know, John
Bond's playing, you can hear all everything you hear is
his high his high hat going up and down, and
you can hear his his kick pedal kind of creaking.
And I love that that it sounds more more real.
But with like three Days Great stuff, or with some
of the stuff on this record, they like every Snare
hit was like done in isolation. Every Tom Field done
(05:17):
in isolation. And so there's no bleed from the symbols
into those mics. So it's all just really like you
almost sort of Frankenstein the drum sound after the fact
by putting all the parts together. But as a player
it takes out. For me, it took away all my feel,
and I'm a feel player, so it's like so basically yeah, like,
so there's no symbols. I think you probably have footage
(05:37):
at the time, and I probably just had a major
frown on my face because I'm like trying it like
air drumming symbols while just hitting the kick and the
snare basically, right, So there's no there's no feel whatsoever.
It actually makes me kind of angry just talking about it.
But so then and then and then so you record
all the snare and and the kick and the and
(05:57):
the toms, and then afterwards you go through and try
to hit the simbles.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
But you you know, they're all.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Connected for a field player like me, right, so to
try to like take them apart and put them back together,
it's like it was just crazy. So anyways, so we
did that, and then also I think that you know
some of the guitar ideas, and then I want to
hear from you, but I think the way that the
producer pushed you vocally and lyrically, I just felt like
(06:24):
he you know, there's a line between pushing someone out
of their comfort zone to sort of achieve their best,
and there's then across that line is like trying to
change someone to be something they're not, And I felt
like it was a bit of that.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
But I'm curious to hear what you what you thought there?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, yeah, man, I mean it's we had that similar
kind of experience and it was for me. Yeah, it
was interesting because we I think we had talked about
this a little bit before, but the point behind this
whole record was that we approached it the way we
approached the Red album.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
When we you know, we met Danny Craig and.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
It was like he was basically like, you guys need
to be better players. And it was a sobering moment
for us to like, Okay, let's step up and if
we want to be on the radio, like there's there
must be some like alchemy behind that that we're it's
more than just writing great songs.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
And so we through Danny, we kind of learned like,
oh shit, like we got a long way to go
to become like really good players. But also we found
that some of the recording techniques he's using are like
different than we'd ever kind of experienced. And you know,
there is there's stuff that a great producer can bring
and it's it's very like X factor kind of stuff
where you're like, I can't really quantify why that's working well,
(07:37):
but it is, you know. And we did that with
Danny and it's like boom, we got a you know,
we got a top five.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
And you know, so.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
After Black Buffalo We've talked about this before, we didn't
have a number one. That was kind of like in
our minds, we were like, that's where you go on
the radio if we're you know, we've we've maxed out
at number five, let's try to get that number one.
So we had the same approach in that, like we
don't really know what this kind of element is that
we're missing. That is like some stations just aren't picking
(08:07):
up our songs, and so it was, you know, we
did not.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Enjoy this part of the process. I feel like.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Those first four songs were cool because it was kind
of opened us up to new stuff and opened us
up to new ways.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
To write lyrics or play and all of that.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But like the back half of the album, there was,
like you said, there was like this it was a
different vibe. It was kind of like it went from
like a producer who was trying to get the best
out of us to a situation where you sort of
felt whether you were like being taken advantage of or
somebody was just trying to like impose their shit on
(08:44):
everything as opposed to bringing the best out of you.
And you know, because we really committed to like giving
ourselves over to that producer and saying like, hey, if
we can achieve that number one, that level of success
could like really.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Blow things open.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
And I mean a lot of like it's cool talking
about this stuff, Katie, because a lot of it is
like it's a cautionary tale.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
But it also is like we did the same approach to.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
The Red album that we did with Made in the Name,
and one of them really kind of worked out really well,
and obviously Made in the Name the it worked out
and that we got a number one, but I think
after the fact, you know, we really sat down and
we were like, I'm pretty sure we would have, you know,
being that raging bull was a killer track. I don't
(09:30):
think there was anything extra in there, you know that
we were kind of being put through that pushed that
to number one. I think that kind of would have
happened on the next record anyways, And I think we
kind of had that collective like a lot of this
shit was just bullshit, and it was like a wake
up call in that, like you, it's good to give
yourself over, get out of your own head as a band,
(09:52):
get over your own shit. Like even you trying that
with the drums was huge. It was like, well, I
don't know, I don't really like it, but like maybe
there's something in this, you know. And I remember you
actually staying to me at the time like maybe I'll
like this, like I don't. You were very open, and
we were very open until it was over and we
were like that fucking sucked, like I did not, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Then honestly lyrically and stuff too.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I mean, I had a lot to learn with just
being more open to a lot of ideas.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
But then it kind of got to the point where
I felt like I was being told what to do,
and you.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Started to realize that there were hangers on around trying
to get paid not trying to make a great record,
you know.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
That was kind of that.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
When that sorted to hit me, I was like, Oh,
there's a bunch of extra people here, and you know,
sure enough, we're not going to get too deep into
this part. But when the bill came in and it
was like, oh, you guys are being charged for this, this,
and that, you're like, oh, I see the extra things
that were happening behind the scenes, which you know, as
an entertainment lawyer, I'm sure you've like come across that
(10:52):
with other bands too and other acts, right, Like, all
of a sudden, you're like, holy shit, all the stuff
that was happening, like we're on the hook.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
For right, Yeah, it's so interesting, And you're right. I
think there's a certain like when you put yourself in
the hands of a producer, like there's a certain amount
of vulnerability there, right, And and some bads never do
that they never give like become vulnerable. And then I
think I would argue they never make great art because
great art goes hand in hand with being vulnerable, right, Like,
(11:20):
So yeah, I mean credit to us for actually like
putting ourselves out there and trying those things. And you're right,
with Dany, I think so when you're in the hands
of a producer, they've got a lot of power and
they could take it one way or the other.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
They could take it to a negative place or not.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Danny was great. He brought out the best in us,
and I think you're right with Made in the Name.
I feel like it just it's sort of instead of
bringing out the best in one bad son, it tried
to change one bad son to achieve a certain thing.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And in a way, I think, just on a personal level,
I feel like it sort of drove a wedge between
us two as members. You know, It's like.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Instead of being like us against the world, it was
sort of like us against each other. Which that's a
weird dynamic for a producer to throw in there, but
it just that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
When we'd never really experienced that before, which was kind
of like again, I think because we went into the
process so open right that it was sort of like
we did get taken advantage of to a point where
it was like, you know, we were sort of getting
turned on each other, and it was it was a
really strange moment to try to pick out what is like,
(12:32):
you know, what is really happening.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Am I just being selfish?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Am I like not embracing this experience or like, you know,
but I think we kind of finally collectively were like aware,
you know, there's so much there is an ugly side
to this industry in many ways, and we were privy
to it in ways that we're not even going to
mention on this podcast, but like, you know it is,
(12:56):
You're right in that, Like that is how great art
is made by putting being vulnerable, putting yourself out there,
and honestly, it's happened with a lot of bands where
you also like, luckily the record turned out great, like
some of my favorite tunes, like Hurricane is one of
my favorite songs that we've done, and even though I
wish the production was a bit different, you're still like
that was a great tune.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Like I love that song, you know, like a Weapon
was cool.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Like it's not like the songs ended up bad or something,
you know what I mean, because the record ends up
being arguably our most successful record in a way. But
you know, as the artist, you don't you look back
on the experience and you don't feel that kind of
like oh shit, like it was like it was fun
to make it. Songs were killer. You know, it's not
(13:40):
like a black spot on our career. But somehow, I
think between, like you said, between the band, things got
really strained and it was you know, it was really
it was just difficult on us until we I think,
sort of collectively got together and chatted about it and
and kind of came to terms with how we were
all really feeling about it.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
You know, yeah, totally. That's great to put it.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Like, Yeah, I'm still proud of the record, right, I think,
And I'm curious. I often ask fans, you know, I
always want to hear what fans think of each of
the records of like those Big three, you know. But yeah,
it's like the songs are to me. There there's stuff
I'm really proud of. There's just like sort of darkness
I associate with the record, which is also the album.
(14:23):
The album a kind of reflects the darkness.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
You know. It's like that that ominous skull is my
drum sound.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
You know, well it's it's true, man, And it was
like you know, yeah, I mean, and you know what
I'll say this, it's like for bands listening to this,
you know, you cannot what's the right way to put this,
Like you can't avoid every pitfall in this industry, and honestly,
like you're gonna have to try some different shit. Like
(14:50):
I said now, numerous times after recording as many records
as we had, we were like, we want to keep
pushing the envelope and trying some new stuff. And I
mean sometimes it might completely backfire. You look at like
you notable backfires like metallicas sant Anger, you know, but
like good on those guys, for that's a case of like,
(15:11):
we don't really know what to do next, and so
if we're gonna keep going, we gotta at some point
you don't want to just rehash the same shit every
single time you go into the studio. So there is
a level of pushing yourself. But in pushing yourself, you
might go too far or it might come out in
a way that you're not happy with. And that's just
I mean, that's just how art is, you know what
I mean. Not everything is the Mona Lisa. Or you
(15:36):
might have painted the Mona Lisa but absolutely hated painting
it even though you were happy about how much it
how well it turned out, right, So and that's kind
of feels like the book on Made in the Name,
Like you sum that up perfectly. It was like proud
of the songs, happy with so much of it, but
it is like there's just some shit memories in there,
you know, but there's a great memory that comes out
(15:58):
of a KD. We're coming up on time on this episode,
which is our first number one hit.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
You know, we we were gunning for it. We'd worked
for it.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I've had so many bands, I'm sure you have to ask, like,
how do I get on the radio?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
How do I chart?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Like how do I you know, we worked on that
for up to that point, what is that thirteen years
or fourteen? So next episode, let's talk about the number
one and all the things that came with it and
the things that didn't.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
How's that sound sounds good?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Body?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
All right, dude, thanks for listening to One Bad Podcast.
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