July 12, 2024 • 16 mins
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Join Kurt and Shane as they kick off 20 years worth of stories, memories and advice for up-and-coming Canadian rock and roll bands.
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Join Kurt and Shane as they kick off 20 years worth of stories, memories and advice for up-and-coming Canadian rock and roll bands.
You can watch One Bad Podcast on YouTube, here: https://youtu.be/DIn99sZPj6U
Checkout One Bad Son online: https://www.onebadson.com/
Shane Volk: https://www.shaneconneryvolk.com/
Kurt Dahl: https://lawyerdrummer.com/
If you are a content creator, new or experienced, join our team!
If you'd like to advertise with us, head to our website.
Join the movement here: https://www.dufferinave.com/
Socials:
https://www.instagram.com/onebadson
https://www.facebook.com/onebadson/
https://x.com/OneBadSon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome. It's the One Bad Podcast. Here's your host KD and Shaner KD.
We're about to talk about the threesong EP, the next era.
You know, our beginnings of talkingabout going out to Vancouver, but we
almost didn't make it, buddy,meaning you almost didn't make it because you
(00:23):
were you were sick for about ayear straight. We couldn't figure it out,
and you eventually moved out of theband House, and you know,
we wrapped up that era. Yougot to tell the people we I thought
like my friend might die, likeI don't know what is going on.
Well, yeah, so yeah,the band House was such an important part
(00:44):
of Obs's development, and it wasjust such an old, decrepit house and
it ended up being like condemned shortlyafter and then like no one could live
there and so they tore it down. But yeah, I remember I lived.
I lived in the back part ofthe house. They built this addition
and it's like this top. Itwas like this patio basically a rooftop patio
on the back of the house,and there was like this enclosure and that's
where I lived in that sort ofrandom place. But it's a great room,
(01:08):
big room, all this naturalie camein. But it turns out,
Yeah, I remember I got sickone week and then just kind of just
kind of like an hanger hung aroundin like my my chest for like months
on end, like months. AndI should mention that your your drum kit
was in the room directly underneath yourbedroom, so it's a double whammy.
(01:29):
Continue. Yeah, so I'm drummingand sleeping, living and breathing in the
in this certain this vertical area,you know, and uh, it turns
out the whole that whole area isjust infested with black mold. So you
know it could have been like Icould have you know, I laugh about
it now, but man, thatcould have been dead. I was like,
what is wrong with me? AndI think I was to be honest,
(01:49):
I was also quite depressed. That'sthe only time I've been like that.
You know, I really suffer fromdepression for like a year. Just
a tough point in my life.But so also, what have you ever
thought about how much the black moldcontributed to the depression? Like was it
chemical and mental? You know,it was black mold? Son, Yeah,
you know it was. You know, it's very It's like it just
(02:12):
it was physical and mental for sure, and and that that's uh, it
was, yeah, moved out ofthe band house and get cleared up and
and Matt Julia and I was Iwas happy and like all of a sudden
my health came back. So it'slike I think it was a multitude of
factors. And yeah, so we'lljust I want to I want to just
cover that before just to tell justto tell the kids out there, if
you're if you're sick and you feellike that you can't get the song black
(02:36):
Hole Son out of your head,it could because it's actually black mold in
your system, so and in yourbedroom. Just yeah, maybe call a
call a mold expert or something.But anyways, so yeah, I mean
that era ended. You know,it's it's kind of a cool jumping off
point because you know, you youyou have these moments in life where you
(03:00):
realize, like something has to changenow, like we've been you know,
we started in two thousand and four. This is getting into like two thousand
and nine ish, and it justfelt like, you know, we'd become
pretty popular in Saskatoon honestly, likewe'd gone from playing to nobody to you
know, we played different places likethe Roxy we basically had a residence in
then we kind of got a residency, like we never called it that but
(03:22):
at Buds and we played you know, sold out shows there. So we
were getting to this point where itwas like, okay, like Saskatoon,
that's our hometown. We love itthere. But obviously, if you're going
to try to blow up, likeyou got to get out and we just
you know, the band House,the Black Mole, the you know,
we moved out at midnight. Itwasn't exactly an eviction but almost, but
(03:45):
it was like time to move onright, And the way these the timing
of this stuff works, it's agreat story that kicks off the next phase
of our career, which is wegot a chance to open for Default.
Opened for them a couple of times, it was like a New Year's show,
and then we got it was thebasement of TCU when they opened for
(04:06):
us. We get to the gigthinking we're opening for a Default of this
like big show, and the promoter'slike, hey, good news, they're
opening for you. You're gonna goon after them. Classic promoter like yeah,
just like fucking car salesman. Youknow, it's like, how got
(04:26):
a pitch? For you, youknow, because basically, basically I think
Default side we don't want to playthat late, right. The ticket sales
were good but not crazy, sothey're like, let's just play early and
get the hell out of here.But Obs, you're closing the night now,
you're the headline, right. Butyou know, it's one of these
things where you never know where thebreak is going to come in or you
know, and we've at this pointnow we played so many shows that were
(04:48):
like, well, fuck, Iguess it's another one of these nights,
right, And so it actually turnsout to be like a fun gig.
The drunks stuck around and we hada fun time. But we met Default
drummer Danny Craig, beautiful human beingwho unbeknownst to us, like saw the
saw our set and we ended up. I remember I got a call from
(05:12):
Dallas Smith and he was like,hey, you guys were great, and
we wonder if you want to comeplay a couple more shows. We did
two more, went to Swift Current, your hometown shout Out, Medicine Hat,
then Medicine Hat, and it wasthat was one of those things where
you think, like we've done somany nights like that that were they went
to shit or something, you know, like oh yeah, you're gonna play
after the headliner. It's like it'sanother write off, but it turns out
(05:34):
to be this great moment because wemet Danny and he came up to us.
I think maybe I don't know ifyou remember, maybe it was after
a Swift Current show, right,medicine hat. I remember. I remember
it was a medicine had. Itwas like we had the chat in the
kitchen part, like you know,the of the bar and yeah, I
remember like basically again back then,like you know, you don't know what
(05:54):
you don't know? I thought itwas remember he joked we kept thinking we
get record deals handed to us aftera show, and moment I felt like
that was as good as that.Danny was like he's like, man,
we should we should do some songsthat I'm a producer, come up to
Vancouver, let's record, you know. And I remember just thinking it's like
we'd made it, you know,and and it was a game changer.
But I was just that naivete Ihad, like I just thought, like,
(06:15):
this is it. We've made it, you know, and so yeah,
so it's like that was had Dannynot seen the potential and also took
the opportunity to like reach out.We never would have gone to that next
level, you know, or itwould have taken a lot longer. I
think you know totally, buddy,And it's cool that you actually remember that,
because I didn't remember the you guyschatting in the kitchen and maybe you
(06:36):
actually you might It might have justbeen the two of you and you probably
told me after because some of thosedays are hazy, especially in medicine hat.
But yeah, but you're right,and you know, it's one of
these things where again I've been asked, I know you've been asked like a
million times about like how do youmake it? You know, like the
I feel bad for bands like Iasked people that like what do we do,
(06:59):
Like how do we get scene?How do you you know, get
these breaks? And the truth iswe got ours is from playing a million
shows. And at that point itwas like say no to nothing, like
go on this tour, drive athousand hours to you know, the worst
gig of your life. But younever know. And you and I I
remember talked about that. It's partof what our kept our spirits up,
was like you never know who mightbe at that show. And you know,
(07:21):
we'd open for some bands like obviouslymuch bigger than us at the time,
like Buck Cherry, and oftentimes,as we also found out with more
bigger bands we opened for, theyrarely watch your set, you know there,
and that's not their fault. Aswe also learned, as headliners,
you're fucking exhausted after your gig oryou know you're prepping usually before, which
(07:44):
is why you often don't see openers. So it was cool that Danny Sauce
and actually saw something in us becausewe were still starting to get our shit
together but still raw, and sothat was that was the game changer.
Now I'll ask you, because I'mpretty fuzzy on this. We did before
the Red album, uh, theScarecrow's album and and all that, we
did a three song EP, andI will say to wrap up also the
(08:07):
band house, Uh Saga. Thelast song that got written in that place
was Scarecrows. Hicks came up withthat riff, which is what I should
mention that because like that's kind ofa cool. When I think about that
era, I'm like, that's acool booky, like it ends just getting
the nugget of the idea for Scarecrows. Well, I remember, I remember
(08:28):
you guys we called it. Wecalled it beer crack because remember the beginning
of the party, cracked a beerand they said you're ready and then and
then yeah, right, that's rightto do. That was titled beer crack.
Yeah, we should bring back theWe'll bring back the original version.
That's dude, I forgot all aboutthat. That's so true because I think
Hicks had just bought pro Tool sothat we could try to do some more
of our own recording and stuff.And but yeah, so what what was
(08:52):
the next thing? Did Danny suggestthe three song EP or yeah? Do
you remember how that went? Yeah, I mean he gave us. He
gave us a cost, which was, you know, like he's like,
you want to do ten songs tobe this much and we were like we,
you know, we have to startRobin Banks or something, you know.
But like, but he also madea point like don't do a record,
like let's use three songs to geta record deal. And that was
(09:13):
from day one. He's like usdeal, sure, but like there's also
six or four records here, youknow, And he was tight with them
from Default and Chad and stuff.So so we just started settle on like
three songs, you know, throughthat, but then we started dambling like
stuff. And but yeah, Ithink it was like, let's do three
songs. I remember very well recordingout with Danny and stuff and getting like
(09:35):
Jay Dakman and stuff to help onthe drum, like to set up be
my first drum tech ever. Butfor me, the big like the big
change, and I remember it waswas also with change comes challenge, right,
Like I mean, I remember itwas so hard. Danny was like
these songs got to be better,you know, And that was for all
of us, and I imagine foryou, especially especially as a lyricist,
(09:56):
Like he's like, I don't knowwhat this is about. Write something better,
you know, and that I thinka lot of musicians don't want to
hear that, right or or thisyour drums your drum beat on this is
like too busy, it sucks.Make it simpler, you know, And
they're like, oh and that's thesort of like growth that you have to
or to Hicks, how many timesyou say it, Hicks, like stop
playing so much. Just lock intothe riff and don't do it slop like
you know, yeah, like hegave us all brutal, brutal criticism,
(10:20):
and that was like we needed tohear it. Every band does, right,
And now I think we take it, you know, now we just
take it with it like we takeit easily now, like hey make that
vocal catcher, make that beat,whatever. But we've also earned the ability
to like push back on those kindof opinions if we want. Yeah,
But back then where it's like wedidn't really have that, we pushed back,
(10:41):
but we had to really just becomebetter writers and performers. And that
was some bands that I don't thinkcan handle that, but thankfully I think
we could it. Just it tooka bit of time, you know.
Yeah, man, that's cool thatyou brought that up because we kind of
teased that earlier on where we weretalking about I think when you were getting
into the Orange City like writing andstuff and just asking like what does it
(11:03):
take to get on the radio,Like not only like who do you got
to know? Who do we haveto send our things to, but like
our songs and stuff, but likesonically, like why don't we break through?
Because you you know, you fallin love with your own songs in
a way too, and you thinkwas feels like as good as the New
Finger eleven track, Like what what'sthe deal? But you man, you
(11:24):
hit the nail on the head becausethat was the big It's such a painful
moment, you're right, which waslike you have to be like almost beyond
perfect when you're in the studio,and like it's you can't you know.
Of course, even in that erawhen we were recording now that's like twenty
twenty ten ish, that ep,it's like, you know, you can
(11:50):
tune vocals, you know, butyou can't tune shitty vocals. And that's
something I learned. It's like yougot to sing it as pitch perfect as
you can get it and with asmuch feel as you can, and then
they can they'll tweak it, youknow. But up to that point you're
thinking, like, wow, it'sall performance, like let's get you know,
let's get raw, let's get crazy. Same with the drums, and
it's like no, like we canmove the kick drownd, but the kick
(12:13):
around, you know, just tolike get that kind of perfect timing lined
up. But like if you're wayoff on it, they can't. They
can't fix a shitty take, youknow, Like you can and so that
was that was like what's the taketo get on the radio. It's like
become way better not only as musicians, but you make a great point also
as writers. And that was reallydifficult because I it it's taken me a
(12:35):
long time in my life to allowpeople in and like allow people to say,
like, you know, especially whenthey're talking about your art lyrics,
you know your beats as well,and just like you know, dumb this
beat down, like it'll be betterfor the song and you're like, Keith
Moon would not do that, likebut you don't. But you never know
(12:56):
what their sessions were, like whatwas what was Keith Moon coming in with
and what it come out with?Like what did they you know, there's
like that level of compromise, butalso like what is this is the reason
I'm getting into this. We're movingup on time here. But it's a
key moment I think for us,and I think the biggest thing I know
(13:16):
I learned and I think we reallytook this forward, which was the number
one thing that matters is the songperiod And it's like what does the song
need? You know, like whatwhat do you need? You've got a
great idea, whoever wrote the riff. Doesn't matter who came up with the
idea. You got a great ideafor a song, But now what does
that need? What's going to serveit? You know? Is it a
(13:39):
meat and potatoes beat with some flourishes. Is it a vocal line that's not
screaming every five minutes? Is itthe lyrics need to be changed, not
because you know I as a lyricist, like I love Chris Cornell kind of
lyrics, Like I was always intomore ethereal less like you know, I
kind of like storytelling what I alwayslike, you know, he always called
(14:00):
like walking into a kind of alyrical environment, like what is black hole
sun? I mean you can't say, well, it's just a song about
this and I like that stuff,and yeah, but that can be it
can be difficult for listeners sometimes oryou're like, it can be so nebulous
that it's like, well what isthat? You know? And but man,
you're right, like and it is. It's a great place to come
to the end of this episode becauseman, we have this is a pivotal
(14:24):
era because of what happens next.But what a thing to learn where you're
like as much touring as we haddone as many you know, all those
hours in the jam room, inthe band house, rehearsing writing, it
was like I feel, and I'llgive you the last word on this,
like I felt like, holy shit, this is the beginning, you know,
(14:48):
Like how did you feel in thosein that moment of like when we
went out to packed into your Ithink it was your parents' car and drove
all our shit out to Vancouver torecord, Well, it was, yeah,
it was it was my grandma inlaw this car actually, but yeah,
I think you're right. We playedenough, put in enough hours at
our instruments so we could play well, right, and that's key. But
we didn't know how to write radiohits and those are two different things,
(15:11):
right, and whether or not therehits a radio, just write songs that
are like, are just great songs. You know. We hadn't done that
yet, And I think Danny wasprobably the biggest influence on us for that.
He showed us how to be ableto not He didn't tell us how
to write songs. He told uslike how we as obs could write our
best songs and that Yeah, thatwas like that was the greatest gift that
I think a pruser's given us,so let's let leave it there. Let's
(15:35):
jump into the uh, well,whatever's next. Whatever you think was,
it's, well, dude, it'sthe next phase. It's a big conversation
comes up because we got a bigcarrot dangled in front of us, which
was a record deal. So that'swhere we go with the next one.
Nice thanks for listening to one badpodcast man. Yeah,
Welcome. It's the One Bad Podcast. Here's your host KD and Shaner KD.
We're about to talk about the threesong EP, the next era.
You know, our beginnings of talkingabout going out to Vancouver, but we
almost didn't make it, buddy,meaning you almost didn't make it because you
(00:23):
were you were sick for about ayear straight. We couldn't figure it out,
and you eventually moved out of theband House, and you know,
we wrapped up that era. Yougot to tell the people we I thought
like my friend might die, likeI don't know what is going on.
Well, yeah, so yeah,the band House was such an important part
(00:44):
of Obs's development, and it wasjust such an old, decrepit house and
it ended up being like condemned shortlyafter and then like no one could live
there and so they tore it down. But yeah, I remember I lived.
I lived in the back part ofthe house. They built this addition
and it's like this top. Itwas like this patio basically a rooftop patio
on the back of the house,and there was like this enclosure and that's
where I lived in that sort ofrandom place. But it's a great room,
(01:08):
big room, all this naturalie camein. But it turns out,
Yeah, I remember I got sickone week and then just kind of just
kind of like an hanger hung aroundin like my my chest for like months
on end, like months. AndI should mention that your your drum kit
was in the room directly underneath yourbedroom, so it's a double whammy.
(01:29):
Continue. Yeah, so I'm drummingand sleeping, living and breathing in the
in this certain this vertical area,you know, and uh, it turns
out the whole that whole area isjust infested with black mold. So you
know it could have been like Icould have you know, I laugh about
it now, but man, thatcould have been dead. I was like,
what is wrong with me? AndI think I was to be honest,
(01:49):
I was also quite depressed. That'sthe only time I've been like that.
You know, I really suffer fromdepression for like a year. Just
a tough point in my life.But so also, what have you ever
thought about how much the black moldcontributed to the depression? Like was it
chemical and mental? You know,it was black mold? Son, Yeah,
you know it was. You know, it's very It's like it just
(02:12):
it was physical and mental for sure, and and that that's uh, it
was, yeah, moved out ofthe band house and get cleared up and
and Matt Julia and I was Iwas happy and like all of a sudden
my health came back. So it'slike I think it was a multitude of
factors. And yeah, so we'lljust I want to I want to just
cover that before just to tell justto tell the kids out there, if
you're if you're sick and you feellike that you can't get the song black
(02:36):
Hole Son out of your head,it could because it's actually black mold in
your system, so and in yourbedroom. Just yeah, maybe call a
call a mold expert or something.But anyways, so yeah, I mean
that era ended. You know,it's it's kind of a cool jumping off
point because you know, you youyou have these moments in life where you
(03:00):
realize, like something has to changenow, like we've been you know,
we started in two thousand and four. This is getting into like two thousand
and nine ish, and it justfelt like, you know, we'd become
pretty popular in Saskatoon honestly, likewe'd gone from playing to nobody to you
know, we played different places likethe Roxy we basically had a residence in
then we kind of got a residency, like we never called it that but
(03:22):
at Buds and we played you know, sold out shows there. So we
were getting to this point where itwas like, okay, like Saskatoon,
that's our hometown. We love itthere. But obviously, if you're going
to try to blow up, likeyou got to get out and we just
you know, the band House,the Black Mole, the you know,
we moved out at midnight. Itwasn't exactly an eviction but almost, but
(03:45):
it was like time to move onright, And the way these the timing
of this stuff works, it's agreat story that kicks off the next phase
of our career, which is wegot a chance to open for Default.
Opened for them a couple of times, it was like a New Year's show,
and then we got it was thebasement of TCU when they opened for
(04:06):
us. We get to the gigthinking we're opening for a Default of this
like big show, and the promoter'slike, hey, good news, they're
opening for you. You're gonna goon after them. Classic promoter like yeah,
just like fucking car salesman. Youknow, it's like, how got
(04:26):
a pitch? For you, youknow, because basically, basically I think
Default side we don't want to playthat late, right. The ticket sales
were good but not crazy, sothey're like, let's just play early and
get the hell out of here.But Obs, you're closing the night now,
you're the headline, right. Butyou know, it's one of these
things where you never know where thebreak is going to come in or you
know, and we've at this pointnow we played so many shows that were
(04:48):
like, well, fuck, Iguess it's another one of these nights,
right, And so it actually turnsout to be like a fun gig.
The drunks stuck around and we hada fun time. But we met Default
drummer Danny Craig, beautiful human beingwho unbeknownst to us, like saw the
saw our set and we ended up. I remember I got a call from
(05:12):
Dallas Smith and he was like,hey, you guys were great, and
we wonder if you want to comeplay a couple more shows. We did
two more, went to Swift Current, your hometown shout Out, Medicine Hat,
then Medicine Hat, and it wasthat was one of those things where
you think, like we've done somany nights like that that were they went
to shit or something, you know, like oh yeah, you're gonna play
after the headliner. It's like it'sanother write off, but it turns out
(05:34):
to be this great moment because wemet Danny and he came up to us.
I think maybe I don't know ifyou remember, maybe it was after
a Swift Current show, right,medicine hat. I remember. I remember
it was a medicine had. Itwas like we had the chat in the
kitchen part, like you know,the of the bar and yeah, I
remember like basically again back then,like you know, you don't know what
(05:54):
you don't know? I thought itwas remember he joked we kept thinking we
get record deals handed to us aftera show, and moment I felt like
that was as good as that.Danny was like he's like, man,
we should we should do some songsthat I'm a producer, come up to
Vancouver, let's record, you know. And I remember just thinking it's like
we'd made it, you know,and and it was a game changer.
But I was just that naivete Ihad, like I just thought, like,
(06:15):
this is it. We've made it, you know, and so yeah,
so it's like that was had Dannynot seen the potential and also took
the opportunity to like reach out.We never would have gone to that next
level, you know, or itwould have taken a lot longer. I
think you know totally, buddy,And it's cool that you actually remember that,
because I didn't remember the you guyschatting in the kitchen and maybe you
(06:36):
actually you might It might have justbeen the two of you and you probably
told me after because some of thosedays are hazy, especially in medicine hat.
But yeah, but you're right,and you know, it's one of
these things where again I've been asked, I know you've been asked like a
million times about like how do youmake it? You know, like the
I feel bad for bands like Iasked people that like what do we do,
(06:59):
Like how do we get scene?How do you you know, get
these breaks? And the truth iswe got ours is from playing a million
shows. And at that point itwas like say no to nothing, like
go on this tour, drive athousand hours to you know, the worst
gig of your life. But younever know. And you and I I
remember talked about that. It's partof what our kept our spirits up,
was like you never know who mightbe at that show. And you know,
(07:21):
we'd open for some bands like obviouslymuch bigger than us at the time,
like Buck Cherry, and oftentimes,as we also found out with more
bigger bands we opened for, theyrarely watch your set, you know there,
and that's not their fault. Aswe also learned, as headliners,
you're fucking exhausted after your gig oryou know you're prepping usually before, which
(07:44):
is why you often don't see openers. So it was cool that Danny Sauce
and actually saw something in us becausewe were still starting to get our shit
together but still raw, and sothat was that was the game changer.
Now I'll ask you, because I'mpretty fuzzy on this. We did before
the Red album, uh, theScarecrow's album and and all that, we
did a three song EP, andI will say to wrap up also the
(08:07):
band house, Uh Saga. Thelast song that got written in that place
was Scarecrows. Hicks came up withthat riff, which is what I should
mention that because like that's kind ofa cool. When I think about that
era, I'm like, that's acool booky, like it ends just getting
the nugget of the idea for Scarecrows. Well, I remember, I remember
(08:28):
you guys we called it. Wecalled it beer crack because remember the beginning
of the party, cracked a beerand they said you're ready and then and
then yeah, right, that's rightto do. That was titled beer crack.
Yeah, we should bring back theWe'll bring back the original version.
That's dude, I forgot all aboutthat. That's so true because I think
Hicks had just bought pro Tool sothat we could try to do some more
of our own recording and stuff.And but yeah, so what what was
(08:52):
the next thing? Did Danny suggestthe three song EP or yeah? Do
you remember how that went? Yeah, I mean he gave us. He
gave us a cost, which was, you know, like he's like,
you want to do ten songs tobe this much and we were like we,
you know, we have to startRobin Banks or something, you know.
But like, but he also madea point like don't do a record,
like let's use three songs to geta record deal. And that was
(09:13):
from day one. He's like usdeal, sure, but like there's also
six or four records here, youknow, And he was tight with them
from Default and Chad and stuff.So so we just started settle on like
three songs, you know, throughthat, but then we started dambling like
stuff. And but yeah, Ithink it was like, let's do three
songs. I remember very well recordingout with Danny and stuff and getting like
(09:35):
Jay Dakman and stuff to help onthe drum, like to set up be
my first drum tech ever. Butfor me, the big like the big
change, and I remember it waswas also with change comes challenge, right,
Like I mean, I remember itwas so hard. Danny was like
these songs got to be better,you know, And that was for all
of us, and I imagine foryou, especially especially as a lyricist,
(09:56):
Like he's like, I don't knowwhat this is about. Write something better,
you know, and that I thinka lot of musicians don't want to
hear that, right or or thisyour drums your drum beat on this is
like too busy, it sucks.Make it simpler, you know, And
they're like, oh and that's thesort of like growth that you have to
or to Hicks, how many timesyou say it, Hicks, like stop
playing so much. Just lock intothe riff and don't do it slop like
you know, yeah, like hegave us all brutal, brutal criticism,
(10:20):
and that was like we needed tohear it. Every band does, right,
And now I think we take it, you know, now we just
take it with it like we takeit easily now, like hey make that
vocal catcher, make that beat,whatever. But we've also earned the ability
to like push back on those kindof opinions if we want. Yeah,
But back then where it's like wedidn't really have that, we pushed back,
(10:41):
but we had to really just becomebetter writers and performers. And that
was some bands that I don't thinkcan handle that, but thankfully I think
we could it. Just it tooka bit of time, you know.
Yeah, man, that's cool thatyou brought that up because we kind of
teased that earlier on where we weretalking about I think when you were getting
into the Orange City like writing andstuff and just asking like what does it
(11:03):
take to get on the radio,Like not only like who do you got
to know? Who do we haveto send our things to, but like
our songs and stuff, but likesonically, like why don't we break through?
Because you you know, you fallin love with your own songs in
a way too, and you thinkwas feels like as good as the New
Finger eleven track, Like what what'sthe deal? But you man, you
(11:24):
hit the nail on the head becausethat was the big It's such a painful
moment, you're right, which waslike you have to be like almost beyond
perfect when you're in the studio,and like it's you can't you know.
Of course, even in that erawhen we were recording now that's like twenty
twenty ten ish, that ep,it's like, you know, you can
(11:50):
tune vocals, you know, butyou can't tune shitty vocals. And that's
something I learned. It's like yougot to sing it as pitch perfect as
you can get it and with asmuch feel as you can, and then
they can they'll tweak it, youknow. But up to that point you're
thinking, like, wow, it'sall performance, like let's get you know,
let's get raw, let's get crazy. Same with the drums, and
it's like no, like we canmove the kick drownd, but the kick
(12:13):
around, you know, just tolike get that kind of perfect timing lined
up. But like if you're wayoff on it, they can't. They
can't fix a shitty take, youknow, Like you can and so that
was that was like what's the taketo get on the radio. It's like
become way better not only as musicians, but you make a great point also
as writers. And that was reallydifficult because I it it's taken me a
(12:35):
long time in my life to allowpeople in and like allow people to say,
like, you know, especially whenthey're talking about your art lyrics,
you know your beats as well,and just like you know, dumb this
beat down, like it'll be betterfor the song and you're like, Keith
Moon would not do that, likebut you don't. But you never know
(12:56):
what their sessions were, like whatwas what was Keith Moon coming in with
and what it come out with?Like what did they you know, there's
like that level of compromise, butalso like what is this is the reason
I'm getting into this. We're movingup on time here. But it's a
key moment I think for us,and I think the biggest thing I know
(13:16):
I learned and I think we reallytook this forward, which was the number
one thing that matters is the songperiod And it's like what does the song
need? You know, like whatwhat do you need? You've got a
great idea, whoever wrote the riff. Doesn't matter who came up with the
idea. You got a great ideafor a song, But now what does
that need? What's going to serveit? You know? Is it a
(13:39):
meat and potatoes beat with some flourishes. Is it a vocal line that's not
screaming every five minutes? Is itthe lyrics need to be changed, not
because you know I as a lyricist, like I love Chris Cornell kind of
lyrics, Like I was always intomore ethereal less like you know, I
kind of like storytelling what I alwayslike, you know, he always called
(14:00):
like walking into a kind of alyrical environment, like what is black hole
sun? I mean you can't say, well, it's just a song about
this and I like that stuff,and yeah, but that can be it
can be difficult for listeners sometimes oryou're like, it can be so nebulous
that it's like, well what isthat? You know? And but man,
you're right, like and it is. It's a great place to come
to the end of this episode becauseman, we have this is a pivotal
(14:24):
era because of what happens next.But what a thing to learn where you're
like as much touring as we haddone as many you know, all those
hours in the jam room, inthe band house, rehearsing writing, it
was like I feel, and I'llgive you the last word on this,
like I felt like, holy shit, this is the beginning, you know,
(14:48):
Like how did you feel in thosein that moment of like when we
went out to packed into your Ithink it was your parents' car and drove
all our shit out to Vancouver torecord, Well, it was, yeah,
it was it was my grandma inlaw this car actually, but yeah,
I think you're right. We playedenough, put in enough hours at
our instruments so we could play well, right, and that's key. But
we didn't know how to write radiohits and those are two different things,
(15:11):
right, and whether or not therehits a radio, just write songs that
are like, are just great songs. You know. We hadn't done that
yet, And I think Danny wasprobably the biggest influence on us for that.
He showed us how to be ableto not He didn't tell us how
to write songs. He told uslike how we as obs could write our
best songs and that Yeah, thatwas like that was the greatest gift that
I think a pruser's given us,so let's let leave it there. Let's
(15:35):
jump into the uh, well,whatever's next. Whatever you think was,
it's, well, dude, it'sthe next phase. It's a big conversation
comes up because we got a bigcarrot dangled in front of us, which
was a record deal. So that'swhere we go with the next one.
Nice thanks for listening to one badpodcast man. Yeah,
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