The Reading | Mount Horeb, Wisconsin

A rural town, known as The Troll Capital of the World, unites over the attempted banning of a book reading and its very close-to-home consequences.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.ouramericanapodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
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Written, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
Research by Vanessa York, Nicola Jezequel, Shannon DeFilippas, Jennifer Menges

Guests: JoEllen Graber, Amy Lyle, and Sarah
Library recordings from: Carly Fisher, Jane Burns, and Julie Plotkin

Featuring "Legend of the Wild Horse" by Emily Haines & The Soft Skeleton
Other music by Lee Rosevere, Borrtex, Ketsa, Derek Clegg, Chris Zabriskie / Courtesy of Free Music Archive

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is an Our Americana Podcast networkproduction sponsored by Podbean. To learn more
about the stories covered and to findout how you can support this publicly funded
show, go to www dot OurAmericana podcast dot com. In twenty seventeen,

(00:24):
I had a crisis of faith.Not your typical crisis of faith,
not one in God or humankind,a crisis of faith in my country.
I lost sight of everything that mademe fall in love with America. I
lost sight of everything that inspired meto start this podcast, and so this

(00:45):
season of Our Americana became very muchabout finding faith and finding my place in
America again. One of the bestways to start finding your faith again is
by looking deeper, looking beyond theobvious, and finding its core, and
then by reminding yourself that even thesmallest gesture of kindness, that showing someone

(01:10):
they matter, can become a movement, a movement that may not only help
you with your crisis of faith,but entire communities of the people. For
me, that journey started in Mounthoreb, Wisconsin, a town once best
known for its trolls. Yeah theyare, I just love the trolls.

(01:38):
There are handcarved trolls all over town. So it's interesting. I think in
our neighborhoods we have subconscious relationships withinanimate objects, you know, like there's
that storefront you hate, or youknow, the crooked crosswalk. Do you
have specific relationships with the trolls?You know? I would say yes,

(02:05):
strange as I feel like, I'mlike, like, that sounds really weird.
That sounds really weird for me tosay yes to that question, but
I do. You know, oneof my favorites is the troll at the
Mount war Public Library. And Ilove that troll for a variety of reasons.
One it's it's just beautiful, andit sort of greets everyone in the
lobby areas you're walking in. AndI just notice this actually not too long

(02:30):
ago, that I feel like thegender of this troll is sort of ambiguous.
And I know that's probably reading waytoo much into it, but that's
my relationship, you know, tothis troll. And of course the troll's
reading a book. And my familyspends a ton of time in and out

(02:51):
of the library, and it issuch a special place in our community.
I've never lived anywhere where like thelibrarians know me and my kids by name,
and I think that is just sospecial. That's Amy Lyle, and
we're going to spend a lot oftime with her and the library today.
When we pulled up to the library, I honestly I wasn't sure what to

(03:12):
expect, and I didn't know whatwe were walking into. But as I
pulled up to the library and Istarted to tear up because I became so
emotional. But first, the trolls. There is a great Scandinavian import store
here in town called Open House Imports, and they imported these trolls from Norway
that actually had their own seats onan airplane flying over from Norway, so

(03:37):
they were strapped in and every daythe owners carried those trolls out to the
side of the road to advertiser store. This is Joe Ellen Graver, who
works for the Trollway, which tothe uninformed layman would be better known as
the Chamber of Commerce. Well,there used to be a major highway that
ran through our town, and whentruck drivers would drive by, they would

(03:59):
say, kind of on their seabees, is where they're at? Is?
Oh, I just drove past yourmother or I just drove past your sister
in law. Kind of a jokeabout the trolls. We just became well
known for these trolls. Well,they built a new highway in it by
passed our town, and so peoplewere worried that, you know, people
would just kind of forget about us. So we decided to really capitalize on
the trolls and became the troll capitalof the world. And we had a

(04:23):
great wood carver here in Mount Horband he went to town just carving new
trolls for people. And all ofour trolls we have a little over thirty
five now are based on somebody thatMichael Fini has met or a character that
he has known. So there's thesegreat trolls all over our town that really
bring people come in and take theirpictures with them. But they're all very

(04:43):
different and people have really embraced itin our town. We have Trollway towing,
we have Trollway CrossFit. You know, people have just really taken this
to heart and really started naming thingsafter the trollway our trolls in our town,
which has just been great. It'sreally kind of a big honor and
it's a big investment for a companyto actually get a troll to put out
in front of their stores. Soit's just really been great for us for

(05:05):
tourism, for more people to seethe different trolls, and some of the
trolls. Now we're getting a littlebit older and the wood is, you
know as wood does, that sitsoutside is rotting, so we're replacing them
slowly, and some trolls are beingreplaced with other mediums besides wood. So
my favorite troll, his name isSweet Swell and if you go on our

(05:26):
website, there's a picture of her. So she's right in front of our
welcome center. Sweet Swill has aparasol, a purse, and a pig
and make Feenie actually met Sweet Swellat a renaissance fair. Sweet Swill carried
this purse around and everybody asked herwhat's in your purse because it was a
very tiny purse, and she wouldtell everybody that she was carrying the pig
poop. Whenever we were her pigpoop, she'd pick up the poop and

(05:47):
put it in her purse. Sowe have this great carving outside of our
office that Sweet Swill and she's carryingher parasol and her pet pig and her
purse. Do you think having sucha strong identity has created a more tight
knit community. You know, thiscommunity. It's really interesting because our community
is full of people who've lived heretheir entire lives or really care about the

(06:12):
welfare of our community. So whilethe trolls have been the forefront of our
tourist attraction for the past twenty years, probably we still are using them as
an attraction, but they're not ourmain focus anymore. So this is just
a terrible punish segue. But speakingof trolls, there was a bit of

(06:34):
a dust up at the local primaryschool that you kind of got involved,
and do you want to talk aboutthat? I would love to talk about
that, and I love Penn,So just pun away. So there was
a couple of years ago now actuallya little girl, a first grader at

(06:55):
the primary center, who was goingto be transitioning socially, transitioning to her
authentic self as a girl. Andthere was an effort to read this book
called I Am Jazz that was writtenby Jazz Jennings, who's now a teenager,
to describe her experience as being atrans kid. And it was co

(07:17):
authored by this wonderful woman, JessicaHurtheal, and this little girl's mom and
her first grade teacher in the principle, and I believe maybe the school psychologist
had come up with this idea ofreading this book I Am Jazz as a
way to let this little girl's classmatesunderstand what was going to be happening and

(07:39):
why she was going to be goingby a different name and wearing different clothing
than she had before. And itjust seemed like a really wonderful idea.
Children's literature is a great way forall of us to learn things, adults
included, and it was developmentally appropriate. It just seemed like a really good
idea. So they sent a letterout to the classes on the floor where

(08:05):
this little girl's classroom was located.So I had a kid at the primary
center too, who was actually asecond grader, but who was not on
the same floor as this little girl, and so I didn't know anything about
this. It was really happenstance andjust, oh my gosh. I just
think back and I marvel sometimes atthe way things come into our lives in

(08:28):
unexpected ways. And so we werehaving dinner at our friends across the street
from us, and our kids werehanging out, and my friend Aaron brought
out this letter that she had receivedfor her child, Jerry. And this
letter was all about how this bookI Am Jazz was going to be read
to welcome this first grader into herauthentic identity, and you offered an opportunity

(08:52):
for parents to opt out or whathave you. And I just thought,
oh, my gosh, this isreally cool. I honestly don't know anything
about what it's like to have atrans kid. I really was quite ignorant.
I'll just say about what exactly thatmeant. But I thought, this
sounds really supportive. This sounds likethe right thing to do. How wonderful.

(09:15):
So you know, we had ourdinner and whatever, had a nice
time that evening. And then thenext day I get an email from my
same for an errand that said thatthe reading of the book was going to
be postponed. And I thought,oh, like, I wonder what's going
on with this. So that's howit all kind of started. Do you

(09:39):
want me to keep going? Yeah? Okay, So so the reading was
being postponed, and I had abad feeling and thought, oh my gosh,
I wonder if somebody's upset about this, or I wonder what the reasoning
is behind it being postponed, andI don't remember exactly what the timeline was,

(10:00):
but a story actually broke on thecommunity radio station in Madison that an
outside group from Florida, and actuallyan identified hate group, was threatening to
sue our Mount Horp School district,not even just like the school district,
but individual teachers who might read thebook. They were threatening to sue them.

(10:24):
I mean, I could not believewhat I was hearing. And we
still don't know. Maybe somebody knows. Somebody must know how that leaked to
this, you know, I mean, it's like our community radio station,
so that's how I learned. Ithink somebody posted on Facebook, you know,
like, hey, WRT is doingthis story that Mount Horp School District
is under threat of a lawsuit fromthis ill named Liberty Council organization all over

(10:50):
this book. And first I feltreally sad and angry. Sad and angry,
I think, I would say,because I couldn't believe that somebody was
so upset about this that they calleda hate group to come try to stop
this from happening in our community.When if they were so upset, they

(11:13):
could have opted their child out ofthe reading. Altogether. There was no
no no reason at all to sortof go to the these links, these
really hateful lengths to stop this fromhappening. And I was shocked. I
was really shocked that somebody would dothat, especially we're talking about a first

(11:33):
grader, you know, we're talkingabout a little kid, and the child
was having a difficult time. Imean, that's the entire reason why that
I learned later, you know,that this social transition was needing to happen,
was that she was not doing well. She was not doing well,
and her family had to do thisfor her. I mean they wanted to,

(11:56):
but they had to. I couldn'timagine why somebody would want to stop
that, and I just couldn't stopthinking about it. I mean I really
couldn't get it out of my head. Because I had a second grader at
the school. I thought, whatif this was my kid, and somebody
had gone to the trouble, youknow, of contacting a hate group to

(12:22):
stop this children's book from being readso that my child could feel more safe
and their friends and peers could understandwhat was happening. I thought I would
feel alone, I would feel scared, I would worry that there were a
lot of people behind this and notjust like one person feeling this way.
I would wonder if my child wasgoing to be safe at school. I

(12:46):
would wonder if we would be safein our community, and could we stay
here? I think would be whatI was wondering. I literally just couldn't
sleep one night. I just thought, I need to find a way to
communicate to this family that they arenot alone and that my family, my
family, supports them. And Iknew other families did too. I knew

(13:07):
other families did too, that thiswas a minority opinion, but I thought,
that's what needs to happen. Weneed to get the message to them
that we support them, and thenwe support their child. And the only
way I could really think to dothat, because I didn't know the family
or the child, was to justfind a way to read the book.

(13:31):
I am Jazz anyway, and sothat's what we did. And so I
my husband, Ashley, who isis just a wonderful person, made this
little flyer. You know, I'mmicrosoft word. We're holding a reading,
you know, at the library.I went down to the library this was

(13:52):
the day before Thanksgiving in twenty fifteen, and looked at the calendar with the
librarian and just reserved a little conferenceroom that's off of the lobby, and
I thought, Okay, we're doingthis. I have no idea what I'm
doing. I don't know what toexpect, but we're just going to keep
moving forward, no plan for whatthis is going to look like or even

(14:16):
what's supposed to happen. I reallykind of resolved that this will be successful
if the family knows that at leastone other family supported them, and that's
it. That's success. It doesn'tmatter how many people come, it doesn't
matter, nothing else matters. Wejust want this family. I know that
we support them and we support theirchild. And you know, words started

(14:39):
to get around that this reading washappening because, as you know, as
you would expect, as people startedto find out about this lawsuit, people
were really upset. Many many familieswere upset that that was happening. Many
many families disagreed with the action thatwhomever this was took to contact this outside
hate group. Many families wanted toknow how to show support for this little

(15:03):
girl and her family. I reallywasn't sure, you know, who might
come. I knew my family wouldbe there, and like our friends across
the street, and maybe a fewneighbors. My husband and I ordered several
copies of that I Am Jazz bookoff of Amazon and just thought, well,
we're just gonna, I don't know, We're just gonna hang out and
read the book a few times andshow support and we'll find one of the

(15:26):
copies of the books and we'll giveit to the little girl's family. That's
what you know, that's what woulddo. And at this point you've still
never met her or her family,right right, Yes, But the really
nice part was that word did startto get around about the reading, and
the family found out about the reading, and the mom, Sarah contacted me

(15:48):
through Facebook and said, you know, I heard about what you're doing and
thank you so much. Like itmeans to the world to our family,
and that is all I needed.Like that is that is that was success
to me, even if the reading, even if something bizarre happened and the
reading didn't happen, I just wantedthem to know that they are left and

(16:11):
their child is left. That's reallythe message I wanted to get across.
Tell me about Amy Lyle. Youknow, she's probably one of my she's
one of my very best friends nowand it's she's an amazing person, and
she has a huge heart, andyou know, for her to to just

(16:33):
be another you know, parent withinthe school and to do something just the
goodness of her own heart and wantingto support another family and another student is
just it's amazing that she took thatupon herself. She's an amazing, amazing
person. This is Sarah, themother of the girl at the center of
all this controversy. Yet about agethree, we kind of just noticed that

(16:59):
she was more drawn to like stereotypicalgirl cartoons and didn't play with trucks and
tractors like her brother, you know, and wanted to play with dolls and
stuff. When we were fine withthat. It was just a normal thing
that kids do and we didn't haveany concerns or anything. And then as
time went on, it kind ofprogressed a little more to wearing mom's jewelry
and playing with my makeup and takingmy tink tops and wearing them as dresses,

(17:23):
and we're just like, Okay,this is a phase that's happening right
now. And as time went on, it progressed more and more, and
in preschool, you know, toto that she never played with any kids
that were boys. It was alwaysfriends that were little girls, which was
fine. And in kindergarten, getstarted progressing even more and we were getting
questions about why can't I wear ouraddresses to school and things like that.

(17:45):
We were starting to think at thatpoint, Okay, maybe something else maybe
going on here, but we arestill thinking this is a phase, this
is just something that's going to goaway. And that year, at one
point I talked to the school psychologistsand I just said, hey, these
are some things we've noticed over thepast couple of years, and it's keeps
progressing and intensifying, and I justwant to know if there's something more that

(18:07):
maybe going on. And so sheagreed to meet with our child a few
times, and after meeting with hera few times, she met with me
and said, you know, Ireally think that your child may be transgender.
At that point, I really didn'teven know what that really meant.
I mean, I knew what itmeant, but I was I think we

(18:29):
were both a little bit shocked andtaken aback, like, no, that
can't beat they can't be it.I remember thinking, my kid can't even
pick what snack they want for snacktime. You know, like, how
do they know this? And likea lot of people who really don't understand
that's kind of their thought process.How does a kid know this? But
we listened to her, and wehad her keep meeting with our daughter and

(18:52):
talking to her, and she continuedto talk to us about it. In
the meantime, I was googling andreading and going to the library and reading
books and just doing my own researchand coming to find out that, oh
my gosh, this is a realthing. Kids do know this as young
as age of two or three.They really know their gender identity and gender
isn't binary. And you know,I was learning all of these things and

(19:15):
I'm like, oh my gosh,this everything I read was like, this
is my child, This is mychild. This is real. So as
him went on towards the end ofthis kindergarten school year, the school psychologist
had said, well, what wouldyou think about letting your child start first
grade as a girl. And weboth were still in this like no,

(19:36):
no, no, no, no, we can't do that. We don't
want we don't want our kids tobe made fun of. And it was
kind of coming from a perspective ofwhere we're worried about what other people think
of us as parents, especially beingin a small rural community. So we
said no, no, no,let's let's just wait and see what happens
over summer. So we were thinking, well, okay, over summer,
you know it's going to be thetwo kids and they have a teenage boy

(19:59):
coming to the baby. Said let'sjust see what happens. Well, no,
it continued to progress, so firstgrade started and my child started to
voice things like why did God giveme the body of a boy? Might
do people not understand that I'm reallya girl? Like why live boy parts?
I'm really a girl? So thatwas like, we have to do

(20:19):
some more more discussion in talking aboutthis. And there were nights where I
can remember having a six year oldon the couch in a nightgown, in
tears because they knew that the nextday they'd have to put on boy clothes
and go to school. Because wewere allowing whatever she wanted to do at
home was fine, you know,where whatever you want, be whoever you

(20:41):
want, But when it came timeto go into public or go to school,
it was like, nope, you'rea boy. You're using your boy
and you're wearing boy clothes. Sothen the depression. There was depression and
anxiety, and I mean we hada six year old that was on the
verge of being suicidal because of this. When it got to that point when
we put the kids to bed andwe were sitting downstairs and my oldest came

(21:03):
downstairs. He was eleven at thetime, and he was crying and we
said, what's going on. Hesaid, you know, something's wrong with
my brother. And we said,well, what's going on? And he
said, well, you know,even on the bus he just stares out
the window and he's so sad allthe time. And I said, okay,
and he said, and I knowit's because you guys just won't let
him wear a dresses to school.And I don't know why that's such a

(21:26):
big deal. So that was kindof like the turning point for us,
like a light bulb went on,like our eleven year old child is telling
us, Hey, mom and dad, this isn't a big deal. I
just bought my sibling to be happy. Why can't you see that this is
okay? So at that moment,we've talked and we met with the school
psychologist again and said this is notanymore about what we'll think about us.

(21:48):
We just want our kid to behappy and be who they are. So
we talked about the social transition andthat was the moment we decided, yeah,
we're going to do this, andit was fall of first grade.
Was it at all challenging coming toterms with this as your new reality?
Yes, it was very difficult,you know, and I think a lot

(22:08):
of parents that I've talked to alsowill tell you that you know you're doing
the best thing for your child,but there's also almost a grieving process of
losing your little boy even though younow have, you know, a much
happier little girl, and then alsoexplaining to family members and friends who come

(22:29):
from conservative backgrounds and that type ofthing. So that was it was challenging
and difficult in that respect. Sotell me about I Am Jazz and organizing
that initial reading. So that wasthe plans when we talked to the school
about doing the social transition of theschool year it already started. We wanted
to put something in place to helpthe other kids in school understand why their

(22:52):
peer is now coming to school asa girl in girl clothes with a different
name. So they decided, okay, this the book I am Jazz would
be very appropriate. It's written forthis age group, you know, it's
it's a very appropriate book to read, to be able to, you know,
kind of explain this to the kidsin her class and on the same
floor in her school, because thoseare the people, the kids that she

(23:15):
would be interacting with the most.What happened is the week before my child's
transition was going to occur, Igot a phone call saying, well,
we can't read this book, andit's like, okay, what's going on.
While one of the parents contacted theLiberty Council and they sent this five
page letter to the schools threatening tosee them as they read the book.
So the school decided, okay,we can't get involved in a lawsuit at

(23:38):
this point, but you know,let's just continue on with what we're doing.
The transition's going to happen, we'llexplain it as best as can.
The transition went fine, and shewent to school as her you know,
her authentic self with their new name, and everything went great, and the
kids were great, and she didget a lot of questions from other kids,
but it went generally pretty well.And then I got a message saying

(24:00):
that some high school students had decidedthey wanted to read the book in front
of the high school in support ofour family, which was amazing that these
readings happened, because none of thesepeople who planned any of these readings even
knew who my child was or whowe were as a family. They just
did this just to be in support. As it drew even closer to the

(24:22):
reading, we started being contacted bythe media, or I started being contacted
by the media, which was reallysurprised to be in very scary to me.
I really wasn't expecting that, andI felt an enormous sense of obligation
to make sure that this went offright. And I mean, I'm sort

(24:44):
of an anxious person, So Istarted I started feeling more anxious, in
part just like do I have theability to do this event? I mean,
like I just don't even know whatI'm doing. I mean, I
literally had no plan other than toread this book, and was that going
to be okay? So I worriedabout that. I worried about started to
worry a little bit about safety.This is a hate group, it's a
national hate group. Somebody in ourcommunity contacted these people. Were they going

(25:08):
to show up? You know tothis reading, and I really worried about
that because I knew we were goingto have children there, and my friends
were going to be there, communitymembers were going to be there. I
didn't want anything bad to happen toanybody. A few years prior, one
of the high school teachers was tellingme that when the Gay Straight Alliance or
the GSA at the high school wasformed, that Westboro Baptist Church came all

(25:32):
the way to Mount Horror, Wisconsinto protest across the street from the high
school, and that at that timethere was no community response to that.
There was nothing at least outward right, nobody out there standing in front of
their signs, you know, preventingstudents from seeing that. I just couldn't

(25:53):
believe that they went to those links, and I thought, well, this
is getting national attention. What kindof crazy people, you know are gonna
come out of the woodwork. SoI worried about that too, and I'm
just so grateful that all the messagesI was receiving were just absolutely positive.
And it also was like a checkon myself, Like khan Amy, you

(26:14):
think you're nervous you're hosting a readingof children's book, like think again about
people who are trying to live theirauthentic selves, you know, as trans
individuals out in the world and arein physical danger, you know, every
day of their life. Get overit, like used your privilege for good,
right, use your privilege for good. And then of course people came

(26:37):
out of the woodwork to help.We received donations of food and drink,
and people were offering to make copiesof flyers. And I was running it
by my friend and she said,you know, you really need to reach
out to this person name Brian Jay, who works for this organization called She's
Safe in Madison. He will reallybe able to help. I think he'd

(27:00):
be really interested in knowing this isgoing on, and I'm sure he'd be
willing to help. So I didreach out to Brian Jay. I looked
up his email, send him anemail. And this is again a real
like Thanksgiving, so I think hewas like visiting family out of state.
But he responded to my email andsaid, hey, we have heard what's

(27:22):
happening in amount Horreb and we wantto help. G Safe is a phenomenal
organization that works to support LGBT youthin schools across Wisconsin. They travel all
over Wisconsin, educating schools and schoolstaff and teachers about how to support LGBTQ
youth. They also provide free leadershiptraining to LGBT youth to help them tap

(27:47):
into their advocacy skills. They justdo wonderful things. They do work around
racial justice. They're just phenomenal people. And so Brian Jay, with his
youth minded work, said Hey,I'm going to reach out to people at
the high school and see if anythingelse was going on. At least I
think that's how that happened. Andof course youth were also planning or reading.

(28:11):
Of course they were. They wereplanning or reading of the book at
the flagpole at the high school onthe very same day, which was December
second, twenty fifteen, and itwas the SAGA group or the Sexuality and
Gender Alliance Group at the Mount harpArea High School and six members in particular
who were organizing this reading at theflagpole of I am Jazz, and Brian

(28:37):
said, you really need to getwith the SAGA kids and see how we
can bring you all together. AndI I still really didn't know exactly the
plan for the evening with the bookreading, and I work full time,
so I'm doing my job and I'mthinking about how is this reading going to

(29:00):
And I made contact with one ofthe high school faculty advisors for the SAGA
group, this one orful woman namedBeth, and we started planning together in
that way, both readings we're gonnabe happening on a Wednesday, and Brian
Jay scheduled a conference call and said, Hey, we need to get you
on the phone and the youth fromthe high school on the phone and Beth,

(29:25):
and I'm also going to have thiswoman named Joanna Eager from the Human
Rights Campaign on the phone. AndI thought, oh, okay, great
that is that's wonderful. And soI'm trying to keep this separate from my
work, and I work at theuniversity. And I think it was like
a four o'clock conference call. Istep outside. It is freezing cold here

(29:48):
in Wisconsin and December, and becauseI get terrible cell reception inside the building,
and so I'm outside and on thephone call and Jessica Hurtel, the
author if I am Jazz, isalso on the conference call, and she
is saying I want to come there, I want to come and read the
book. I couldn't believe my Earsand Human Rights Campaign Joanna eagers like,

(30:12):
yes, we definitely want to comeout and support this event. This is
really great. And I sort ofdidn't know what to say. It was
like really quiet, I think alittle bit on the call, but enthusiastically
yes, I'd be wonderful. Pleaseplease come. I'm feeling like, oh
my gosh, I still don't knowwhat I'm doing other than reading this book.

(30:33):
What's gonna what's gonna happen at thisevent? But yes, everybody come.
That's amazing. And so I amsimultaneously so happy and also getting ever
more anxious and crying a lot actually, because I'm just really really worried that
somehow, like I'm going to screwthis up. You know, that's like

(30:56):
ego, right, I don't knowhow I imagine that what's going to happen.
But I was really worried about it. And it was a really good
lesson in just having to let goand say, you know what, your
intentions are good. I remember myhusband saying that to me like a thousand
times, like this is a goodthing, Like this is a good thing.
Just keep taking the next step,and we did. You know,

(31:21):
another thing I remember from those daysJash was just like I was continually either
emailing or calling the library director.I just was worried that at some point
the library might say, you knowwhat, this isn't what we signed on
for, Like you reserved a conferenceroom, like a twenty person conference room.

(31:42):
No, like you need to shutthis down, or you need to
move it, or you know somethinglike something. And I will never forget
this because it was just exactly whatI needed to hear at the time.
Jessica just kept saying, we willbe ready for you, we are ready
for you, we are ready foryou, and she's it. I just

(32:05):
can't tell you. That is whenI knew, not that there was any
doubt whatsoever in my mind, thatthe library was a true ally on a
completely different level than I had initiallybeen asking for them. So fast forward.
I can't remember exactly what time thehigh school reading was at, but

(32:28):
I want to say it was likefirst thing in the morning, and it
was cold, there was snow onthe ground. Everybody was bundled up,
and the high school reading got overtwo hundred people around that flagpole reading the
book, and they also had astatement to read from Sarah, the mom
of the little girl there was newsmedia there. Our local newspaper was there.

(32:53):
There were people from all walks oflife. There were students there,
but there were also just like communitymembers. There were retirees, there was
clergy there, just a bunch ofpeople from the town showing up to show
support. And it was beautiful.It was just such an incredible statement.

(33:13):
And the Saga we call them theSaga six now they totally you know,
they have their own name. Andso the Saga six had painted this beautiful
banner and named the campaign closed theBook on Hate. So they were holding
their giant banner and doing this reading, reading this beautiful message from Sarah,

(33:34):
the mom, and it just couldnot have gone better. I think they
probably wished that their sound had worked, their pa like working, and I
know that was frustrating. At thetime, it didn't matter, It didn't
matter. And that was actually thefirst time that I met Sarah, this
little girl's mom, and oh,I'm going to start to cry. She

(34:00):
arranged to meet there, and shewas very much still maintaining anonymity for their
family because they needed to do that, and not knowing, you know,
sort of what was going to bethe outcome of all of this and I
just remember her coming up to meand saying, hey, Amy and Sarah
and I turned around and we huggedreally briefly, and then we immediately turned

(34:22):
back around, and I think weboth probably had tears in our eyes,
but I didn't want to indicate thatthat was her or give away that that's
who you know, I was talkingto. But I just I will never
forget that moment, and I wasso happy that she was there and that
she was able to be there.That was also the moment where Joanna Eager
from the Human Rights Campaign came upto me after and introduced herself and said,

(34:45):
all right, let's go get towork. And we went to Oh,
it's kind of like a hub oftown folks, and you could probably
say gossip too, but like townnews or just a hub of activity in
our town. This little place calledShuelins, and it's a chocolate shop.
It's sort of where everybody goes onmain Street. And so we went and

(35:07):
we sat at a table and juststarted talking about what was going to happen
that night. And of course Isaw people that I knew, like my
dad was there and his friends werethere, and people were really excited the
whole day was sort of a blurof activity. Joanna was also super busy
going off to the school district andmeeting with school district staff and really listening

(35:30):
to their concerns, but also sortof bolstering that they really were doing the
right thing in intending to read thisbook for this little girl, like that
was the right thing to do andthey had every real right to do that.
That is what we should be doingfor kids. Children's literature is a

(35:50):
phenomenal way to teach children, andI am Jazz is developmentally appropriate, like
all of those things that I wouldimagine people in administration needed to hear,
you know, at that time.And one of the other remarkable things that
happened, so Joanna and I didan interview for a local news station maybe
at like two thirty that afternoon atthe library, and after that interview was

(36:14):
over, we were going to reallynail down like sort of who was going
to speak and when, And beforewe could even go do that, a
woman came up to us in thelibrary, somebody I didn't know, and
said, I couldn't be at theFlagpole reading this morning. I have to
work. I can't be at thereading tonight. But I just wanted to

(36:35):
come and tell you that I amso glad this is happening. And then
she started to cry and she said, I think that I am a member
of a particular area of faith communityand I think I know you know who
called the Liberty Council, and Ifeel terrible about that. I can't believe

(36:58):
somebody did that. And she sortof went on to talk about how in
her faith that she really believes thatand this is unfamiliar language to me,
but I'm just going to try tocapture what she said as best I can,
but like that everyone sends and thateverybody can be forgiven, that's what
she believes in, but that wewere talking about a child and she just

(37:20):
could not imagine why anyone would targeta child in this way, and it
was truly sort of a spiritual crisisfor her. And we just listened and
said, you know what, Ibet there might be others in your faith
community that might feel similarly to you, Like, do you know anybody that

(37:44):
you can trust that you could gotalk to about this? And you know,
she did, but that that reallystuck with me, that somebody who
you know, who knows maybe theperson wasn't a member of that faith community,
it doesn't matter. Something in hertoo felt that this was a wrong

(38:07):
that needed to be righted. AndI thought, I'm probably in a different
space in terms of spirituality than thisperson, but we're feeling the same thing.
We are feeling like this is somethingthat needs to be righted and we
should support all children. That's whatI felt like. Yeah, I'll never
forget that. I'll never forget thatmoment of feeling like we're the same in

(38:29):
this moment. So, going backto ten years previously when the Gay Straight
Alliance was formed in the westboot BaptistChurch showed up and nobody spoke up,
I feel like, sometimes we needsomebody to give us a platform or give
us a voice. And I thinkthat that's exactly what you did. I
think that was the differences. Yougave people a voice and they use that

(38:53):
to tell this little girl that shemattered and it empowered them, especially that
woman. I feel this way,and it's okay that I feel this way,
and I'm going to speak my mindabout it. I think all it
takes is one person to start amovement, because it's just that one voice
gives everybody else the platform to speak. I don't even know what to think.

(39:17):
I M. I think we're alllooking for a way to do that,
don't you. I mean I feelI feel like, oh my gosh,
is there a day that goes bythat any of us don't feel like,
what are we going to do toright this ship? Right? Like?

(39:44):
Oh my god, it just feelslike it just gets worse, and
the news gets worse, and andjust when you think it can't get worse,
it gets worse. And yet Itoo, I too, am looking
for people to say what I amfeeling and to show or demonstrate like any

(40:10):
kind of way that I can makea difference, because I think it can
feel so overwhelming at times and whatcan anyone person do? You just never
know? Oh my gosh. Imean, if there's anything ever coming out
of this experience for me, it'sthat any of us, any of us,
can make a difference. I mean, have I tried things and have

(40:35):
I tried things now in my advocacythat have totally bombed? Yes, yes
I have. So it's not thatit's you know, always ends up being
this amazing event or that everything goesperfectly or people don't get mad at you
or you don't say the right thingexactly, and you have to go back
and apologize and say I didn't meanto say it that way. Yes,
all of that happens, and westill have to speak, and we still

(41:00):
have to act, and we kindof have to put those worries aside.
And again, oh my goodness,gracious, I can be as anxious as
anybody, and this has been sucha freeing experience to me to just go,
you know what, you need toget over it. And I don't
mean that lightly, because I reallydo. It can be paralyzing, and

(41:21):
that's I'm not trying to say thatanybody should just get over middle illness,
because I have it too. Butit's just I can't be stopped worrying about
if people are gonna be mad atme, you know, like who cares?
Who cares? As long as Ifeel like I'm following my heart and
following my depth feeling and operating inmy values and living trying my best.
I mean, goodness knows, I'mnot perfect at all, you know.

(41:44):
I want to model to my kidsthat they can make a difference. I
want them to know that if somethinghappens in their lives or to their friends
or whatever that we all there isalways something that we can do. There's
always something. So tell me aboutthat night. Does the doors open and
people start to come in? Yeah? So the doors open, and first

(42:07):
of all, my most rebel rousingcommunity friends are the first to show up,
and they are just like, tellus what to do, tell us
where to go, We'll do anything. And just having them there just meant
so much. And so I waslike, okay, great, well,
so okay, so we have likeabout ten people and my family should soon

(42:30):
be arriving. And you know,my mom and my dad and my kids
and my husband and my friend Jessicahad baked cookies. So I had gone
and picked those up from her housein Madison, brought those and then people
started coming and coming and coming andcoming, and they did not stop coming.

(42:53):
The entire library. Well, letme back up. There were like
eighty chairs, seemed like a tonof chairs. I was like, uh
no, this isn't whatever. Imaybe this want we needed, you know,
after the flagpole reading, I'm kindof thinking, well, maybe I
don't know, but you know,people are busy, kids have activities every

(43:15):
night of the week. Like therecould be a lot of people who have
shown support, who are totally behindthis, who just may not be able
to come. You know that happens. So again, I'm just saying,
you know, it doesn't matter,but people do come, and people are
coming in and saying to me,Amy, I had to park almost to

(43:36):
the middle school, which is prettyfar away, and they said, there
are cars like in all directions.And I look around and indeed, I
mean, of course, like everychairs filled. There are kids sitting on
the floors crisscross apple sauce. Thereare people completely filling behind the chairs,
like you could not look and notsee, just tons of people. And

(44:00):
the time came, I just thankeverybody for being there, and people are
happy in their clapping and all beingsaid and done, there were there were
nearly six hundred people at the librarythat night. I just never, in
my wildest dreams would have imagined thatkind of response. I mean, I

(44:23):
just just never, I mean justnever. It sounds so corny, Joshua,
there was. It was just love, you know, it was just
like emanating love. Everybody was thereto support this little girl on her family,
and the school psychologist, who hadbeen providing a hum among us amount
of support to this family was thereand she was taking pictures and she was

(44:45):
taking video because we really didn't knowwhether Sarah was going to be able to
come or not. You know,in this accident of planning, we had
actually scheduled the reading for this littlegirl's dad's day of knee surgery. You
know, you're welcome for that.And so I had talked to Sarah earlier,

(45:06):
you know, in the day andjust apologize, like, oh my
gosh, she was on the wayto the hospital with her husband a mee
surgery, and then we didn't knowshe was going to be able to come
or if she would and all ofthat. But some of the kids had
received a copy of I Am Jazz, the book because the Human Rights Campaign
had purchased stacks of books, andevery family that attended that night was able

(45:28):
to go home with a book,with an I Am Jazz book, and
that may be incredibly happy too,and just knowing that all those books were
kind to be going out to familieshomes where kids would be able to read
them and show them to their friendsand maybe read dissiblings. And Jessica told
the beautiful story of getting to knowJazz and why she came to come up
with the idea to write that book, and she always says, I don't

(45:51):
want my kids to be jerks.I want my kids to be loving,
informed people who support everybody. Andthe way that we do that is by
education in children's literature is a beautifulway to do that. You know.
Again, I'll be the first toadmit, did I know what the word
transgender means? I think I did? You know? I think I think
I had an idea about that,what that meant, But I had no

(46:13):
idea what that would be like fora child, what they would feel,
what they would be thinking, howtheir family might be seeing impacts of them,
questioning their identity, anything about thator even what socially transitioning meant.
I mean, I learned very quicklyyou know what that meant. But I
was pretty uninformed about gender identity atthat point in my gosh, I'm still

(46:37):
learning every single day in my life, and I'm grateful for that. But
I sure have learned a whole lotsince then and know that this has changed
my life. I mean, thiswhole experience, in ways I can't even
begin to go into, has changedmy life. And one of the ways
that it has changed is for meto look at gender identity and a well,

(47:00):
first of all, look at genderidentity, like just look at it,
right, I mean, just like, think about that. Think about
the ways that we are all conditionedin our culture and conditioned into this very
rigid your male, your female binarysystem, And how could that possibly be
the case that everybody would fit neatlyinto those boxes? And the truth is

(47:22):
that they don't. And so whatis that about, and what does that
experience like? And how can wechange the way that we think and change
our culture to acknowledge that reality,Like, none of us fit neatly into
any boxes, and yet we spenda whole lot of our energy and for
some people just absolutely live their livesin anguish trying to trying to do that,

(47:45):
and we don't have to, andwe don't have to. We are
all more free when we have abroader, wider, inclusive idea about gender
and gender expression and gender identity,who we love, I mean, all
of it. It is inextricable.And that is something that I really didn't

(48:05):
get and I'm sure I don't getit on the same level you know,
as many people, but I feellike that is a real shift, and
that's something that we talk a lotabout in my family now, and we
talk a lot about with our kids. I want them to be able to
be their authentic selves, whatever thatlooks like. I want our home to
be one where our kids grow upto know that they can love absolutely anyone,

(48:32):
absolutely anyone, period. And thesad part is that that's not the
country that we live in right now. But we can change that. I
understand this became a bit of amovement even outside of Mount Horreb. I
know a few other towns and communitiesdid readings of im Jazz. How does
that feel unreal? I mean,it feels like it feels it gives me

(49:00):
hope. It gives me hope.If if something as simple as reading a
book can cause other people to changethe way they think and feel, and
cause other communities to also want toread this book so that they can change
the way people think and feel andon and on and on and on,

(49:21):
then we all can just find thatway, whether it is reading a book
or in some other entirely different way, to make change and to create more
safety. I can't believe it,I mean, Josh, honestly, like,
I cannot believe it. But Ican't I can't even believe that two
days later we were talking about theEye of Jazz reading and the fact that
we're talking about it two years lateris um it. I don't know what

(49:50):
to say. It just it justmakes me hopeful. I mean, it's
just really it makes me hopeful thatwe cann I need to change this world
even when we have nothing. It'scoming to mind, Yes, thank you,

(50:12):
Yes, running our country, empoweringothers to spew hateful speech, to
feel empowered to spread their bias andtheir hate everywhere, like we can push
back. I can't remember exactly howmany, but Sarah and I kind of
like did a few more readings aroundmad Horreb and together, and we invited

(50:37):
legislators and we had a panel discussionafter with some of the SAGA six members
to talk like just answer questions fromthe community about what's it like to be
trans or pan sexual or you know, any of those kinds of things.
What are your experiences? How canwe support you? That was really cool.
And a librarian who lives in ourcommunity, who is the librarian a
few towns over, held several communityconversation type events at her library around I

(51:02):
am Jazz and around gender and inthe Human Rights Campaign. I really done
an incredible job starting this movement andhaving a national day of readings. And
at the end of this past year, they came to Madison and had a
big event. I know there werehundreds and I can't remember exactly how many.
I think it was over two hundred, but it may have Actually it

(51:24):
may have been even more than that. Readings were happening around the country on
that day. The fact that it'scontinued to grow is amazing, and I
think the reason it has is becauseanyone can do this, like anyone,
anyone can. You can read itat your home, just to your kids.
You can, you know, reservea room at a library. You
can go to your kids class andread it at school. You know,

(51:44):
it doesn't have to be like thisbig production to make change. I got
there just at the tail end ofit because my husband actually had knee surgery.
That day was a crazy day,but that I went from yeah,
I know, I went to thereading in the morning before before school,

(52:04):
went home, took him to thehospital, got him to the hospital.
While he's in surgery. I'm havinga conference call with some people with people
from Human Rights Campaign and how todeal with the media stuff to all the
media was trying to find the familyand all the stuff. And then I
get him home, I get somebodyto come say it with him at home
because he just had surgery. ThenI got to the remaining It was crazy.
But as I'm pulling up to thelibrary, I'm like, oh my
gosh, there's cars everywhere, likehow many people are actually here? And

(52:29):
I walked in the door and I'mlike, this place is absolutely packed.
I was totally floored. It wasjust amazing. The CBS Evening News was
there trying to find the mother,which I did not allow because I obviously
didn't want that type of exposure atthat point. But yeah, it was
amazing that these people just in ourcommunity came out and in such a way
to support a family they didn't evenknow. You know, It's just they

(52:52):
were standing up for what they thoughtwas right. And another amazing thing,
there was no protester showed up anywhere. It was really it was really amazing,
and it really helped us kind ofget through a confusing time tool just
knowing we had that support from ourcommunity. Yeah. I was going to
say, I'm sure there's a degreeof isolation and going through this. Yeah,
yeah, because you don't know,like we were like, oh my

(53:15):
gosh, nobody else in this area. I'm sure nobody else you know has
gone through this, And it's notsomething you can be like, oh,
well, my kid is what didyou do when your kid with teething?
Well, how did you prepare forkindergarten? Or this is something you can't
just ask any parents, you know, to discuss. At that point,
we had, you know, wedid feel very isolated and like we didn't
know what people were going to thinkor how this is going to go down.

(53:35):
And yeah, so for that tohappen was great, and I mean
it was very helpful. So Ithink just looking at the big picture of
the events over those few weeks isyou're going through this experience and you get
this just wonderful support from the schoolto have it immediately shut down, and
then you show up to that librarythat day and there's over six hundred people

(53:55):
in there. What's that like?It was kind of overwhelming in a good
way. There are so many differentemotions kind of going on at the time,
and I guess I feel very luckyand very blessed because over the course
of the past couple of years.I've met a lot of parents who haven't
had that experience, and they've hadthe opposite experience. So I feel very

(54:15):
lucky that we live in all horrorand we had gotten such amazing support because
there's a lot of parents and kidsout there that haven't had that. How
has this changed the way you seeyour community? I really have a lot
of respect for the people here.You know, I never want to ever
leave this community. I will neverput my kids in another school district.

(54:37):
I just wouldn't want my family anywhereelse. You'd mentioned earlier your daughter mentioning
and struggling with God giving her thewrong Bob okay, and I want he
has this experience tested your faith?You know? Actually it hasn't. And
that's a good question. Because oneof the first people I talked to was
my pastor at church before we didthe insitions, because we do about a

(55:00):
church, and I said, youknow, I don't know how the church
sees this, and she said,you know, I really don't know the
answer to that. And she said, you know, but but we're behind
you. She came to both thereadings. She's a pastor in a neighboring
community and our pastor and some otherindividuals created a Pea Flag chapter in Malharap.

(55:20):
I mean it was started by pastorsfrom churches in the area, so
we had a lot of support fromthat end too, So I mean from
all fronts, we've kind of hadall this support, you know, on
all different levels. That's amazing.You know. I'm yeah, I'm gay,
and I was raised entirely secular,so my own relationship, unfortunately,
with religion is one of discrimination.I think that you are so lucky to

(55:45):
be in the community. You've justgotten support from the school district and from
your church, and it's right amazingexactly it is. There are two churches
in town who have a different viewpoint. And I know that because after this
all happened. It was the monthafter, in December, there was a
school board meeting in which policy waschanged in the school district that unanimously voted

(56:06):
that they changed the non discrimination policyto include kids cannot be discriminated because of
their gender identities, and they canuse whatever bathrooms they want locker rooms,
which is amazing. But at thatgood board meeting, I was there there
were people who spoke both foreign againstus, and two of the people that
spoke were from churches in the communitythat were very much against it, but
for the majority, solved and positive. Now, I know your daughter was

(56:29):
really struggling before the transition. What'sshe like now? Oh my gosh,
though she was behind in academics atschool, struggling to focus, crying out
in school. Within a week ofthe transition, her teacher texted me and
said, I just want you toknow, within a week her reading is
already improving, her maskills are alreadyimproving, she's focusing, she's smiling,

(56:51):
there's no more tears in class.She went from a very shy, timid
child to this outlowing, very outgoing. She's not shy anymore. Definitely,
some days it's like, oh mygosh, I wish I could bring it
back in a little bit. Youknow, in a very short period of
time, up from this shy,timid, sad, depressed kid to this
like wow, Like it's like thiskid just bloomed. And I heard that

(57:14):
same term over and over again.She just bloom She came out of her
shell. Like it's a totally differentkid for the better. She's just like
any other little girl. Do youthink in addressing this at such a young
age. You've been able to mitigatea lot of the problems that trans teens
and trans adults have to face.Yes. One of the things she has

(57:34):
voice concern about is, especially ata young age, his Mommy, I
don't want to get a beard likeI don't want to look like a boy
and a school or I say.I told her, we're going to make
sure that doesn't happen. There's anamazing clinic at the year Children's Hospital here
in Madison. It's a pediatric adolescenttransgender health clinics that she goes to once
a year and we just talk aboutthings and they're really good with her.
You know, so if any signsof puberty start, we can prevent that,

(57:57):
preventing some of that stuff not havingto go through the after, you
know, any changes happened. Herpeers are all all learned about this at
a young age, at the agewhere they're not grim and natory yet about
any of this. They've all learnedabout her at a young age. They
don't see her as any different kidsare amazing. One of the biggest comments
she got from her peers was thatis so cool you got to change your

(58:19):
name. I wish I could changemy name. You know, when we're
in a place now to where she'sbeing taught how to handle her emotions and
kind of we're doing proactive things withher. It's going to be our rough
road at some point in the future. You know. Now it's kind of
the easy time where it's just allyou have to do is where the clothes
you want and your name is different. But when those harder things start happening
as she gets older, you know, we're preparing her on how to deal

(58:40):
with that. Also'll have some toolsin place before that happens and before things
get harder to be able to dealwith that better. So that's so lovely.
I wish, yeah, every transkid was given those tools and given
that experience. I know, andI've met quite a few trans adults who
weren't able to transition until adulthood whohave told me the same thing, Like,

(59:00):
you know, I wish that myparents would have been like you,
and that I wish I would havebeen able to do this so much younger
in my life would have been somuch easier. So, you know,
we feel really good that are settingher up to have a good life.
Let's take it full circle and goback to that moment where you're stepping up
to the microphone for the first timeand looking out over a crowd of six

(59:20):
hundred people. How are you feelingabout your community at that moment? Oh,
my gosh, incredible pride, incrediblegratitude, immeasurable love for every person
that showed up that night, eventhough certainly my hope that a lot of
people would show up, but thiswas so beyond expectation. And it let

(59:45):
me know that our community does supportour people. Does everybody in our community
support our people? Know? Butyou know what this is going to be,
this is the culture needs of thevalues of our community is we support
all children, period. We supportall families, period. And we're going

(01:00:06):
to keep standing net for families andkeep standing at for children, and that
that hateful, narrow minded, bigotedview is definitely in the minority. And
I hope we make it super hardfor those people to speak out. I
hope they really think twice about it, because they should. They should.
Nobody should feel empowered to go outsideof our community to get a hate group

(01:00:30):
in to tell us how to teachour kids. I actually think it's like
really cowardly, you know, wedon't know necessarily who that person was,
and they couldn't even own their ownfeelings about it or attempt to have a
conversation about it. They just neededit shut down. And that just lets
me know that there is a lotof fear, you know there, and
a lot of misinformation, and that'sright. You can be afraid, you

(01:00:52):
can be misinformed, but you cannottrample on other people's right. Well,
I think that's a beautiful irony inall this is that in trying to silence
this book, they created a movementso much bigger than that one reading in
that one school, in that onetown. Yeah, I have to admit
I kind of love that part ofit. I mean, in your face

(01:01:14):
liberty counsel, like really and truly, it absolutely backfired. It did the
exact opposite of what they intended.Do you think hosting this reading and the
huge outpouring support and all the peoplewho came, do you think that brought

(01:01:35):
the community closer together? Yes?Without question. I don't know that I
can entirely quantify like how I knowthat, but I know it. I
saw people in that audience that Ididn't expect to see that challenged my own
assumptions about who would show up forthis little girl in her family, And

(01:01:58):
in that way, it caused meto open my mind and challenge assumptions I
have about people, and I thinkthat can't help but bring us all closer
together. And we have sort ofa little activist thread in our community.
And since that time, there areways in which we have come together around

(01:02:24):
other issues, around supporting teachers andschools, some of them around and a
possible walkout at the high school asa response to park Land, ending gun
violence. And I just think weknow that we can do this, so
I really believe we will continue todo this. I love that in just
trying to reach out to this familyand tell them that you supported them,

(01:02:45):
you created a movement, and youhave essentially told every American transperson LGBT plus
person that you support them. That'sjust such a powerful thing to me.
Thank you so much for saying that. I just feel I honestly it's so
hard for me to hear that,only because I mean thank you. Also,

(01:03:08):
this wouldn't have happened if all ofthe folks who came before, right,
Josh, I mean all of thetrans and non binary and gender fluid
people throughout our history had not riskedtheir lives, risk their families, risk
their children to live as their authenticselves. I mean, none of this

(01:03:32):
would be happening. So sometimes Ifeel a little conflicted, like, thank
you so much for saying that,and I am so grateful that this happened.
And I also obviously feel this incredibledebt of gratitude to the trans community
for facing immeasurable obstacles and they andstill do. I mean, we just,

(01:03:55):
Oh my god, we have somuch work to do. That's what
I'm thinking right now. I'm like, so much work to do. There's
so much work to do. Peopleare still not safe. People still don't
have jobs, they don't have healthcare, they're discriminated against, they're in danger,
they're killed, they're murdered. It'sso I want to keep reading n
I Am Jazz, and I wantto read other books, you know.

(01:04:18):
And I know that something that theHuman Rights Campaign is looking at too is
there aren't enough books about gender identityfor kids. There are more, And
I Am Jazz is a beautiful storyand it was spot on for this little
girl in her family here in ourcommunity. There was no more perfect story
than this story. For her,and so I just I would love to

(01:04:41):
see you more of those kinds ofbooks be part of it too, And
I know the Human Rights Campaign andWelcoming Schools is really interested in that too.
Well, thank you so much,And I just want to say,
you know, right around the timeall this was happening, the dust was
kind of settling on marriage equality,and I remember doing all that debate and
all the referendums, thinking this isn'tpersonal, but it's hard not to take

(01:05:03):
it personally because being gay is afundamental part of who I am as a
person, of course, and anytimesomeone spoke out and anytime someone should support
it matters. So I don't thinkyou should do what you've done and what
it's turned into lightly. It doesn'tnegate what everyone has done before you,

(01:05:23):
But what everyone has done before youshould not allow you to negate what you
have done, because what you've doneis so powerful. Thank you for saying
that. Thank you. I justthank you for saying that. I mean,
I like I now in my emailsignature at work, I have my
pronouns. I have my pronouns.You know, she hear hers, And

(01:05:43):
I think about that as maybe somethingthat some people just like skip over or
don't look at or go what isthat? Or you know whatever. I
think it's good when they say whatis that, because then they kind of,
you know, maybe they want toknow and find out. But it's
the well who respond to go,hey, I noticed your pronouns. Thank
you so much? Like that letsme know that you're a safe person,

(01:06:08):
or that you know where you workis a safe place, or that you're
going to get me when I comein to talk to you about my family
or my child. And there arethose little things that we can do,
and I hope everybody finds a wayto speak up. My son is the

(01:06:54):
same age as a little girl whotransitioned, and he wasn't in her class,
but he was on the same floor, which means we were one of
the parents that got the original letterssaying they were planning on reading I'm Jazz
within the class. And when wegot the letter, I was a little
surprised, just because I guess Ididn't know. I didn't understand enough to
know that this is an issue thatmy first grader could face. But I
thought, okay, well, we'lltalk about this with him so he's not

(01:07:15):
surprised and tell him what we know. And then when I heard that the
letter had been sound threatening to Sue, I was so taken aback by the
position in the letter that seemed totake the stance that not only do some
parents not want their kids to knowthis lesson, but they also don't think
other kids should hear this lesson inthe public school. And I couldn't disagree
with that more. I think publicschool is absolutely the right place to form

(01:07:36):
responsible and respectful citizens of this country, and part of that is empathy and
understanding in respect of all of thedifferent people who live in it. When
I found out the reading was goingon at the library, we were eager
to take our kids because I wantedthem not only to hear the lesson from
me, but I wanted them tolearn more, and I wanted them to
hear this and especially to read thebook. We still hadn't read the book

(01:07:58):
when we pulled up to the library, I honestly I wasn't sure what to
expect. I didn't know how manypeople agreed with my position, I didn't
know how many people agreed with theposition of the other perspective, and I
didn't know what we were walking into. But as we pulled up to the
library and I saw just how manypeople were there. The cars were overflowing
out of the parking lot, outof the driveway, down into the street.

(01:08:19):
I started to tear up because Ibecame so emotional thinking that I was
so proud of my town and howmany people came out in the spirit of
education, in support, in understandingof all of our differences. And I
couldn't have been happier. My kidslistened to the story. My son listened

(01:08:43):
to it, and to him itwas no big deal. As we walked
out of the library that night,I can't remember the little girl's name,
but he said, you know,she changed her name to such and such.
I think that's a really good name, and that was it, and
for him, it's just another difference, and that that's exactly what I wanted.
I went to the reading at theManhor Public Library, and there was

(01:09:03):
really never any question that I wouldgo. This is my town, this
is my community, these are myneighbors. I knew that the community would
be supportive of it. I wasblown away by just how supportive they were.
I was just completely stunned by howmany people were shoved into that library.
I definitely wanted to show my supportin general, and also I was

(01:09:25):
a little worried that outsiders might comeand cause some trouble, which is about
the most small talent thing you couldpossibly say. But I don't think it's
an unreasonable thought in these times ofours, these divisive times. And the
funny thing is is I heard alot of people who weren't there, who
were from other places, think thatbig crowd was made up of outsiders,

(01:09:47):
that these were people from Madison whoreally believed in the cause, and that
was not the case at all.Those were people in the community, and
I would make that point that thesewere our neighbors that were there. The
event didn't change change how I feelabout my town. It affirmed what I
always believe to be true about it. Sometimes when you tell somebody you live
in a small town, particularly whenit's the town you grew up in,

(01:10:12):
people will get really patronizing and asif to say, oh, isn't that
cute. My answer to that isalways that this community is special. It
really is. I always joke aroundand say this is not a normal town.
And I think what the I AmJazz reading proved to the rest of
the country was that's indeed the case. This is not your average community,

(01:10:33):
and we proved it that night.My name is Julie Platkin. I have
a son who at the time wasat the primary center where the reading of
im Jazz was going to happen anddidn't happen, so already I was directly
impacted. Because my son was atthe school where they were going to do
the reading. I was really excitedabout it for him to get that exposure.

(01:10:54):
And when they denied the reading atthe school and we headed at the
library, it was so much betterbecause it brought the whole community out,
not just our school community. Andthe reason why it was important for me
to go was because, first ofall, I wanted my son to just
know that this is a normal thingin life, that this isn't like a

(01:11:15):
big thing that there that someone istransgender. So that was first of all,
and second of all, I believein the power of community, and
it was so apparent that night whenwe all came out. It brings tears
to my eyes while I'm talking aboutit, because it was so potent to
be with everybody who came, allthose hundreds of people in the library squished

(01:11:38):
in to hear the reading, andit was a moment of strength in our
community, and it really has impactedthe way I view my community in that
I am so deeply grateful that wewere all able to do that, We
were all able to come together andsay, you know what, this is
important to us, and that whywe're here to support that, and it

(01:12:00):
was just an amazing show of support.