March 15, 2023 • 26 mins
Tune in to this episode of Outvise Insights where we explore the inspiring story of Elina Jutelyte - a thriving freelancer and community builder. Discover the proliferation of freelancing in Europe, follow Elina's personal path as a freelancer, and be inspired by her initiative to establish the Freelance Business Community. This episode is packed with insights and lessons for anyone looking to pursue a career as a freelancer.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
(upbeat music)
(00:02):
- Hi everybody, this is Tora
and I'm back with another episode of Outvise Insights.
A podcast by freelance talent marketplace, Outvise.
Here we discuss training topics
within business technology and the future of work.
Today our topic is From Freelancer to Community Builder -
(00:23):
Navigating the Journey with guest speaker, Elina Jutelyte,
a seasoned freelancer and the visionary behind the freelance business community.
With her passion for empowering independent professionals,
Elina has created a thriving global network
that connects freelancers, offers valuable resources
and drives success in the ever-growing freelance industry.
Thanks for joining us Elina.
(00:44):
How are you today?
All good, there in Belgium?
- Yes, thanks, all good, yeah.
Well, happy to be here.
- I'm excited to have you here.
We haven't yet had anyone fully speak on this podcast
about their personal freelance journey.
And I think it's so important for other freelancers
to hear people's stories.
So how long have you been a freelancer for now?
- Since 2016, so it's six years now, if I count well.
(01:08):
- Yeah, yeah, quite a while.
So I was thinking how about you walk us through your journey
into freelancing and tell us what really motivated you
to pursue this path?
- I guess my story is very classical.
Someone who was bored in a corporate structure,
who felt very much tied up with corporate politics
(01:29):
and bureaucracy and actually spending time useless,
seeing that you can do much more for your clients
and looking for ways to create more without being restricted
by someone's opinion, who is not even close to the client.
So I was really looking for a way to express myself,
(01:51):
in a different way.
If I can say so, and I guess freelancing journey
was very natural to that sense.
I guess the question, how did I exactly start freelancing?
Some people might be curious.
There are different ways to actually start freelancing, right?
(02:12):
In my case, it was a well-prepared path.
Let's put it like this,
'cause as soon as I realized that I'm not belonging
to a corporate structure whatsoever,
I just don't fit that at all.
I can't fight politics.
I can't do nine to five,
Or rather to say from five to nine.
In my case, I started paving the path
(02:33):
how to find customers.
I started talking to people if they would be willing to work with me
and eventually as soon as I realized that,
yes, there is interest,
they see value in my expertise and services, I took off.
- Okay, amazing.
And did you go to a platform or did you kind of
(02:53):
network yourself and find these clients?
- Yeah, interesting.
I wasn't on a platform yet,
and it's actually a very timely question for the moment
'cause I'm in a position at the moment
after six years of freelancing,
when I'm actually very curious to discover platforms,
there was a notion for long that platforms
(03:15):
are not really suitable for someone who has experience,
at least among freelancers.
There were certain opinions that,
you have to go very low in price to win competition
on a platform, so it's not really a place for someone
who has high level expertise.
But right now, I see that platforms are changing
(03:36):
there are lots of high-quality connections
that platforms are offering with quite well established
brand or interesting projects.
And also via relationships that they're building with freelancers
that I'm willing, well, not willing,
I'm very curious and interested right now
to discover some platforms for myself as event professional.
(03:58):
- Yeah, no, I think the whole freelancing,
I mean, work has completely changed
in the past few years. Absolutely.
- Like it's,now we're getting more senior freelancers
as compared to before, I would say.
- Yeah, that's totally true, that's totally true.
I think the definition itself, gained more power.
(04:21):
I remember when I started calling myself a freelancer
it was a little bit embarrassing.
- Yeah.
- As soon as I started freelancing business community,
I realized that if I don't promote freelancing
as a definition, then why do I do this, right?
So slowly we started shifting,
I mean, me personally started shifting my mind
(04:42):
towards freelancing is good and you can be proud
to call yourself a freelancer.
We actually launched a campaign, I am freelancer, at some point.
'Cause highly experienced freelancers,
they prefer to be called consultants.
- Yeah, that's also okay.
- Okay, yeah, all professionals,
I don't know, independent professionals and so forth.
(05:02):
So yeah, I agree, both you said that freelancing
as a definition has evolved a lot.
- For sure.
And throughout your freelancer journey,
I was wondering, what are some highs
and lows that you faced and do you have some insights
that you can share with aspiring freelancers?
(05:24):
- Yeah, absolutely.
I would say it's very standard, perhaps.
I won't to surprise anyone if I say that high moments
when you realize that you can actually create,
you can express yourself without boundaries.
This is what I mentioned at the beginning
that I felt very tied up in a creative process,
(05:45):
which was very limited.
When you can execute amazing projects
and apply your creativity to that,
that really inspires you to go further.
But what inspires me also in high moments, for me,
is feeling the freedom,
feeling the freedom to work the way I want,
(06:05):
not depend on anyone,
Again, talking about corporate structure
and being actually well paid for that.
I mean, equivelant, if you compare someone who works
in a office and going into the freelancing,
if you're smart in your price strategy,
you ultimately raise your income from one day to another.
(06:29):
I mean, we just need to be smart about that.
What tells of a high moment,
actually realizing that you're not alone,
even though freelancers tend to feel lonely,
the moment I started the Freelance Business Community,
I was amazed how many other freelancers out there
(06:50):
who are actually sharing the same issues
or happy moments and that you are one big community,
whether you belong to a community or not.
So this are the high moments.
The low moments in the career,
paying the tax.
(07:10):
Every time I have to do it It's really painful.
And I think that's also one of the lessons I learned.
And I hope we can talk about those a bit later.
Being careful with finances, because this can kill you,
big time.
Especially here in Belgium, tax is very high.
So paying the taxes is a very low moment for me.
I had a very painful partnership,
(07:34):
during my freelance career.
So that was also a bit of a struggle to handle.
And I would say dealing with egoistic customers.
I had a couple of those who actually tell you what to do
(07:56):
instead of trusting your expertise.
And then you eventually realized that this relationship
deemed to be ruined at the start.
With that attitude. It's even painful to think about it right now.
Yeah, no, I'm sure it's important to find a client
that matches your expectations.
(08:17):
I mean, both ways.
Absolutely.
Yeah, at Freelance Business Community,
we have actually a list and red flags of clients
who are going to be a pain in the butt.
Oh.
So we know already by now, like the first thing to deduct.
If it's going to be a good relationship or not.
Oh, you have a checklist that you have to go through before you
sign with a client.
(08:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
But would you say it's one of the lows is maybe, well, maybe not
for you, but for many freelancers,
I mean, you constantly have to find new projects.
And I'm sure that can be stressful.
Yeah, that's also part of the game.
You go into freelancing
(08:58):
you have to admit that it's not going to be great and straightforward
all the time.
You'll have down moments from time to time.
Depending on how you structure your business, by the way.
But in my case, as for instance, one of the lowest
moments was when I lost the customer.
And it was the only one I had.
It was a very big project.
And I was relying on it for several years.
(09:19):
And from one day to another, the financial problems
with the company and they let go all the consultants.
So that was unexpected, totally.
And I was there without anything.
I knew that I have a little bit of fat lay, let's say,
for a couple of months.
But then the projects that I was focusing on takes time to find,
(09:39):
because it's a very long-term project.
It's very specific and not so easy to find a customer like that.
So that was also one of the low moments.
And I didn't know.
And I think that was the start of
Freelance Business Community, by the way.
At the lowest moment of my freelancing career,
I wanted to learn how others are finding customers,
(09:59):
because I had no experience before that.
Like I mentioned, I was talking to others just very randomly,
kind of testing whether they like me or not.
But I never was sourcing for customers as such.
So yeah, that's true.
And so if you could think of some,
what have been some key lessons that you've learned
on your freelance journey and what specifically,
(10:21):
what advice would you give to new freelancers starting out?
I mean, you mentioned your lows,
but if you had to give specific lessons,
like think about this, do this, you know, what would you say?
Well, the lesson number one would be,
make sure you understand how finances work in your country,
and taxation as well.
(10:42):
My biggest problem was, and again, it's so many,
so many aspects that, you know, important to take into account
when you register yourself as a freelancer,
or maybe even you have to register yourself
as a business entity, if you for instance,
have family members who also want to run the business
similar to yours, and it doesn't make sense
(11:04):
that you're freelancing, it's better that you form a company.
So we didn't really think through that process at the beginning,
and we suffered a big time.
So that's why I say it's important to understand
how finances work and taxation in your country,
legislation and all that things.
I didn't seek any expertise, any opinions.
(11:25):
I just bluntly went and registered myself as a freelancer,
which was okay, but it could be optimized in a better way.
So that was a lesson number one.
Lesson number two never let yourself dry out.
Like in my case, for instance, I, you know, I was without anyone,
any customer and therefore no income,
(11:45):
where I should have, and I worked part-time.
So I had half of the day available for finding other potential projects
which I didn't do, and that is a mistake number two.
And I think also, I would mention the third one,
which is, I mentioned partnerships early on.
Trust people, but make sure that you're protected,
(12:13):
meaning that you have a solid contract that you,
you know, if you start building business together,
which is more than freelancing and executing tasks.
If you have a little bit of an entrepreneurial spirit,
and you want to create something more, then make sure that you discuss
with your partners that you involve in the project,
(12:35):
every detail possible.
I had a bad lesson in that as well, and I still suffer from that a little bit.
Oh, God. but
you learn from every mistake right.
Correct, correct. Yeah.
And for me, these are the three biggest mistakes.
Perhaps for someone else it's going to be different,
but I just felt that these are important to mention.
Yeah, definitely.
(12:56):
And so you mentioned earlier a bit about what led you to create the Freelance Business Community.
So could you touch a bit more on that?
And also explain a little bit more exactly what the Freelance Business Community is.
Yeah. Well, it started as an idea.
And that's why I always say, if you have an idea,
just try to make it work, you will soon understand whether
(13:20):
it's worth a while to do anything further or not.
So I had an idea that I want to create an event for freelancers
as event professional by my co-business.
That is natural that I wanted to create something for freelancers.
And at that time, I met someone and she agreed to become a partner in that.
(13:42):
So we produced a local event here in Brussels a couple of times, I believe.
Unfortunately, we had to part ways with that person.
But since then, actually, the Freelance Business Community
took a different form.
The missions still stayed the same.
And the mission is to connect the freelance economy in general
(14:02):
and support freelancers worldwide to become successful.
But we opened doors not only to Belgian freelancers,
but we have more than 60 countries right now.
And I think unique thing about the Freelance Business Community
is that we're not only focusing on freelancers as such,
(14:23):
even though it's our main big pillar of our community.
We also talk about platforms.
We talk about those who are hiring freelancers.
And we're trying to educate each of these categories.
We talk to platforms, how to work with freelancers,
An for our freelancers to
understand how to work with platforms.
(14:44):
The same with companies, who are hiring freelancers,
we explain what it takes to hire a freelancer.
So it's becoming a bit of a multi-facet organization at this point.
OK.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Super interesting.
And I actually read on your website.
They now have over 8,000 members, as you said,
(15:05):
from 60 different countries.
And so you mentioned you hosted some events.
But what else has, what are some key factors that
have really contributed to the growth of this community?
Well, yeah.
The growth was quite organic.
We didn't throw too much.
I would say too much money on ads,
(15:26):
comparing with what corporates can do.
So it grew quite organically in a way.
But the main contributor is events.
Surprisingly, every time we run a project conference,
then we see inflow of members.
We count a member as anyone who is joining our activity.
(15:49):
So our biggest initiative is Freelance Business Month,
which has been visited by more than 3,000 people lately.
And throughout the year, we run master classes and other conferences
dedicated to specific issues of freelancing,
or specific categories of freelancers.
So that's our growth hack.
(16:14):
And so what type of freelancers, mostly
join the Freelance Business Community? Would you say it's more
freelancers starting out that need support,
or maybe more senior freelancers that are looking for more networking
and to connect with other freelancers?
Well, we see both actually.
And because of the content that we offer during the events,
(16:39):
it varies from how to start a freelance business
to how to grow a freelance business.
We see starting freelancers coming and also those
already in the process a long time, but would like to be inspired
how to do things differently or find connections.
Interestingly, since we're active from different social medias,
(17:01):
as well, we also notice a different audience represented
more or less in different channels.
On LinkedIn, for instance, we have lots of senior freelancers.
On Instagram, I would say we have more juniors
and Twitter, something in between.
Yeah, I know this makes sense.
So I like the way
(17:23):
it's created in the way it is at the moment,
because that gives lots of food for thought also.
And also for us to tap into different aspects
and different problems of each of the categories of freelancers.
Thanks for answering that.
And so you say, headquartered in Belgium?
I mean, most of it takes place in Europe.
(17:46):
the Freelance Business Community, right?
So I was wondering, what are some current trends and developments
of freelancing in Europe?
And how do you think they're affecting the job market
and the way people work now?
I mean, freelancing has grown a lot, especially during the pandemic.
Yeah, that's true.
And actually, I would like to tone this question a little bit different way.
(18:08):
And I would say that job market is disturbing freelancing.
Because if we look at the way the labor market exists for the moment,
it's been like this for the last 100 years,
plus minus the legislation that supports the protection of workers,
(18:31):
the social security behind.
But until then, it was pretty much wild wild west, if I can say, right?
I don't know if it was even regulated somehow
that someone goes to work on the factory, I guess we can take industrial age at this point.
And they get a wage of some sort.
(18:52):
If we look even deeper, the war freelancers and entrepreneurs who
were doing something by the hands, right?
So the freelancing actually existed much longer than the current system of work,
as we know.
So I would say that the job is disturbing freelancing.
If we look in a global scale.
(19:13):
But to answer your question, you're totally correct to mention,
pandemic changed the way we work.
Actually, it didn't change, it existed.
I remember my times that I was with the customer at that time.
And we were having this remote setup already for years.
And when pandemic hit, the customer didn't even suffer.
Because that's how they worked before.
(19:35):
It's like, OK, this all normal, nothing happened.
But at the same time, lots of companies who actually were shocked.
I was seeing what's happening right now, all the layoffs in tech sector and people
losing jobs during pandemic, I guess it opens up the doors to people to consider other options
(19:56):
because they have to.
And in fact, I think freelancing is more secure than just having a job in these days.
Imagine if you lose a job, I'm not sure how it is in other countries.
I guess there is some sort of protection for those who lose a job and you get several months of payment
and stuff.
But then what? What are the chances that you'll find another job?
(20:19):
Probably very minimal.
You either have to change sector for instance if a job is outdated or imagine something else.
So freelancing in that sense allows more flexibility.
How it is changing also, you are correctly mentioned that more senior profiles go into consultancy.
(20:40):
Let's put it like this.
And actually, much younger generation is now looking into freelancing straight right from the
university.
For several reason, one is that they don't want to be stuck.
They want to have freedom, maybe they still want to travel and see the world, but they still can work.
(21:03):
Why not? That's an excellent opportunity for them to earn some money and still travel.
Perhaps by their life design, they don't want to be associated with one company.
They want to create something themselves and a love a thing and people being so courageous and entrepreneurial
that they immediately start doing something without thinking that they need to have years of experience.
(21:28):
As our generation probably thinks, in order to sell themselves as experts and something.
I think that's a very big shift right now.
We also see more and more platforms coming as you know, of course yourself.
And different generation platforms, like I mentioned, who are more concerned about building
(21:51):
relationship between freelancers and clients and offer actually skills and talents instead of just
a name, in the database, right?
That anyone can find, maybe even on LinkedIn.
I guess this are the main changes that are happening right now.
I hope what will change also is that the freelance industry as such will become more senior
(22:18):
as an industry. I think it's still young, even though as a definition, it existed for a long time,
but as an industry and a mainstream a little bit, it's still very young.
I just hope it will get more recognition.
Amongst as many as possible including governments. For example, here in Belgium, I was trying to find someone
who would be responsible for relationships with self-employed and I couldn't find.
(22:45):
There are so many people who are actually into that, that you cannot even find, who is that one person who
you need to talk to. I know that there are certain associations that now come into play,
who are actually looking into that issue starting from creating a vocabulary and working on definitions,
that it's clear to everyone. And freelancers is a not-called so many different names that we can find,
(23:12):
or we can hear depending who we talk to. To a HR person to, yeah.
No, I completely agree. Can we just call everyone freelancers?
Yeah, exactly. Not contingent worker or whatever.
So, yeah, I guess we're moving in a very interesting direction and I'm happy to be in that space.
(23:32):
Yeah, we're moving in the right direction. Yeah, so looking ahead, what are your plans for the future
of the Freelance Business Community and what goals do you hope to achieve in the years to come?
Wow, I have to know.
Big question. I have to now open all the cards. Yeah. Let's say, I'm actually very excited because
(23:54):
there is so much untapped matter in this field that for us it's important to set priorities right.
There is so much that can be done for the community. It still functions a little bit as a
non-profit, even though we try to generate funds to support our operations
with partners that we work with. So, I guess for us it's important to make it on a very stable
(24:18):
financial rails that it can continue operations without, I would say,
continue operations with a bigber team, right? Because there is so much you can accomplish if you have
like three people or much more if we have 10 or 15 for example. So, what we're looking into
is expanding offline because the community started as offline, then turn into online, grew quite significantly.
(24:44):
And now my aspiration is to build local communities around the world as much as possible.
With local ambassadors representing everyone's business community as a brand and
producing their own meetups or conferences or whatever. Because I believe this is how we meet
and exchange via events and I want to carry this forward to other communities. And also help them
(25:07):
with their community management skills and event management skills, if it's necessary.
So, that's one of the big, big step, or projects that we'd like to accomplish. Maybe not this year,
even like several years ahead. And also we're working into more education, more quality education,
(25:29):
I would say, for freelancers, we've seen more than 200 experts on our virtual stage speaking and
sharing about everything, freelance related. So, we have ready to focus into very much quality
production for the educational component. And many other things that I'm not going to mention at
(25:51):
the moment. It'll be a surprise for later. Exactly. We'll see later. But yeah, anyway, Elina, this has been
such a great conversation, inspiring as well, actually. Thank you so much for sharing your
freelancing journey with us and best of luck with the Freelance Business Community. Thanks a lot for
having me. Thank you for joining us at Outvise Insights. If you're looking to hire top freelance talents
(26:18):
or find your next project, visit www.outvise.com
(upbeat music)
(00:02):
- Hi everybody, this is Tora
and I'm back with another episode of Outvise Insights.
A podcast by freelance talent marketplace, Outvise.
Here we discuss training topics
within business technology and the future of work.
Today our topic is From Freelancer to Community Builder -
(00:23):
Navigating the Journey with guest speaker, Elina Jutelyte,
a seasoned freelancer and the visionary behind the freelance business community.
With her passion for empowering independent professionals,
Elina has created a thriving global network
that connects freelancers, offers valuable resources
and drives success in the ever-growing freelance industry.
Thanks for joining us Elina.
(00:44):
How are you today?
All good, there in Belgium?
- Yes, thanks, all good, yeah.
Well, happy to be here.
- I'm excited to have you here.
We haven't yet had anyone fully speak on this podcast
about their personal freelance journey.
And I think it's so important for other freelancers
to hear people's stories.
So how long have you been a freelancer for now?
- Since 2016, so it's six years now, if I count well.
(01:08):
- Yeah, yeah, quite a while.
So I was thinking how about you walk us through your journey
into freelancing and tell us what really motivated you
to pursue this path?
- I guess my story is very classical.
Someone who was bored in a corporate structure,
who felt very much tied up with corporate politics
(01:29):
and bureaucracy and actually spending time useless,
seeing that you can do much more for your clients
and looking for ways to create more without being restricted
by someone's opinion, who is not even close to the client.
So I was really looking for a way to express myself,
(01:51):
in a different way.
If I can say so, and I guess freelancing journey
was very natural to that sense.
I guess the question, how did I exactly start freelancing?
Some people might be curious.
There are different ways to actually start freelancing, right?
(02:12):
In my case, it was a well-prepared path.
Let's put it like this,
'cause as soon as I realized that I'm not belonging
to a corporate structure whatsoever,
I just don't fit that at all.
I can't fight politics.
I can't do nine to five,
Or rather to say from five to nine.
In my case, I started paving the path
(02:33):
how to find customers.
I started talking to people if they would be willing to work with me
and eventually as soon as I realized that,
yes, there is interest,
they see value in my expertise and services, I took off.
- Okay, amazing.
And did you go to a platform or did you kind of
(02:53):
network yourself and find these clients?
- Yeah, interesting.
I wasn't on a platform yet,
and it's actually a very timely question for the moment
'cause I'm in a position at the moment
after six years of freelancing,
when I'm actually very curious to discover platforms,
there was a notion for long that platforms
(03:15):
are not really suitable for someone who has experience,
at least among freelancers.
There were certain opinions that,
you have to go very low in price to win competition
on a platform, so it's not really a place for someone
who has high level expertise.
But right now, I see that platforms are changing
(03:36):
there are lots of high-quality connections
that platforms are offering with quite well established
brand or interesting projects.
And also via relationships that they're building with freelancers
that I'm willing, well, not willing,
I'm very curious and interested right now
to discover some platforms for myself as event professional.
(03:58):
- Yeah, no, I think the whole freelancing,
I mean, work has completely changed
in the past few years. Absolutely.
- Like it's,now we're getting more senior freelancers
as compared to before, I would say.
- Yeah, that's totally true, that's totally true.
I think the definition itself, gained more power.
(04:21):
I remember when I started calling myself a freelancer
it was a little bit embarrassing.
- Yeah.
- As soon as I started freelancing business community,
I realized that if I don't promote freelancing
as a definition, then why do I do this, right?
So slowly we started shifting,
I mean, me personally started shifting my mind
(04:42):
towards freelancing is good and you can be proud
to call yourself a freelancer.
We actually launched a campaign, I am freelancer, at some point.
'Cause highly experienced freelancers,
they prefer to be called consultants.
- Yeah, that's also okay.
- Okay, yeah, all professionals,
I don't know, independent professionals and so forth.
(05:02):
So yeah, I agree, both you said that freelancing
as a definition has evolved a lot.
- For sure.
And throughout your freelancer journey,
I was wondering, what are some highs
and lows that you faced and do you have some insights
that you can share with aspiring freelancers?
(05:24):
- Yeah, absolutely.
I would say it's very standard, perhaps.
I won't to surprise anyone if I say that high moments
when you realize that you can actually create,
you can express yourself without boundaries.
This is what I mentioned at the beginning
that I felt very tied up in a creative process,
(05:45):
which was very limited.
When you can execute amazing projects
and apply your creativity to that,
that really inspires you to go further.
But what inspires me also in high moments, for me,
is feeling the freedom,
feeling the freedom to work the way I want,
(06:05):
not depend on anyone,
Again, talking about corporate structure
and being actually well paid for that.
I mean, equivelant, if you compare someone who works
in a office and going into the freelancing,
if you're smart in your price strategy,
you ultimately raise your income from one day to another.
(06:29):
I mean, we just need to be smart about that.
What tells of a high moment,
actually realizing that you're not alone,
even though freelancers tend to feel lonely,
the moment I started the Freelance Business Community,
I was amazed how many other freelancers out there
(06:50):
who are actually sharing the same issues
or happy moments and that you are one big community,
whether you belong to a community or not.
So this are the high moments.
The low moments in the career,
paying the tax.
(07:10):
Every time I have to do it It's really painful.
And I think that's also one of the lessons I learned.
And I hope we can talk about those a bit later.
Being careful with finances, because this can kill you,
big time.
Especially here in Belgium, tax is very high.
So paying the taxes is a very low moment for me.
I had a very painful partnership,
(07:34):
during my freelance career.
So that was also a bit of a struggle to handle.
And I would say dealing with egoistic customers.
I had a couple of those who actually tell you what to do
(07:56):
instead of trusting your expertise.
And then you eventually realized that this relationship
deemed to be ruined at the start.
With that attitude. It's even painful to think about it right now.
Yeah, no, I'm sure it's important to find a client
that matches your expectations.
(08:17):
I mean, both ways.
Absolutely.
Yeah, at Freelance Business Community,
we have actually a list and red flags of clients
who are going to be a pain in the butt.
Oh.
So we know already by now, like the first thing to deduct.
If it's going to be a good relationship or not.
Oh, you have a checklist that you have to go through before you
sign with a client.
(08:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
But would you say it's one of the lows is maybe, well, maybe not
for you, but for many freelancers,
I mean, you constantly have to find new projects.
And I'm sure that can be stressful.
Yeah, that's also part of the game.
You go into freelancing
(08:58):
you have to admit that it's not going to be great and straightforward
all the time.
You'll have down moments from time to time.
Depending on how you structure your business, by the way.
But in my case, as for instance, one of the lowest
moments was when I lost the customer.
And it was the only one I had.
It was a very big project.
And I was relying on it for several years.
(09:19):
And from one day to another, the financial problems
with the company and they let go all the consultants.
So that was unexpected, totally.
And I was there without anything.
I knew that I have a little bit of fat lay, let's say,
for a couple of months.
But then the projects that I was focusing on takes time to find,
(09:39):
because it's a very long-term project.
It's very specific and not so easy to find a customer like that.
So that was also one of the low moments.
And I didn't know.
And I think that was the start of
Freelance Business Community, by the way.
At the lowest moment of my freelancing career,
I wanted to learn how others are finding customers,
(09:59):
because I had no experience before that.
Like I mentioned, I was talking to others just very randomly,
kind of testing whether they like me or not.
But I never was sourcing for customers as such.
So yeah, that's true.
And so if you could think of some,
what have been some key lessons that you've learned
on your freelance journey and what specifically,
(10:21):
what advice would you give to new freelancers starting out?
I mean, you mentioned your lows,
but if you had to give specific lessons,
like think about this, do this, you know, what would you say?
Well, the lesson number one would be,
make sure you understand how finances work in your country,
and taxation as well.
(10:42):
My biggest problem was, and again, it's so many,
so many aspects that, you know, important to take into account
when you register yourself as a freelancer,
or maybe even you have to register yourself
as a business entity, if you for instance,
have family members who also want to run the business
similar to yours, and it doesn't make sense
(11:04):
that you're freelancing, it's better that you form a company.
So we didn't really think through that process at the beginning,
and we suffered a big time.
So that's why I say it's important to understand
how finances work and taxation in your country,
legislation and all that things.
I didn't seek any expertise, any opinions.
(11:25):
I just bluntly went and registered myself as a freelancer,
which was okay, but it could be optimized in a better way.
So that was a lesson number one.
Lesson number two never let yourself dry out.
Like in my case, for instance, I, you know, I was without anyone,
any customer and therefore no income,
(11:45):
where I should have, and I worked part-time.
So I had half of the day available for finding other potential projects
which I didn't do, and that is a mistake number two.
And I think also, I would mention the third one,
which is, I mentioned partnerships early on.
Trust people, but make sure that you're protected,
(12:13):
meaning that you have a solid contract that you,
you know, if you start building business together,
which is more than freelancing and executing tasks.
If you have a little bit of an entrepreneurial spirit,
and you want to create something more, then make sure that you discuss
with your partners that you involve in the project,
(12:35):
every detail possible.
I had a bad lesson in that as well, and I still suffer from that a little bit.
Oh, God. but
you learn from every mistake right.
Correct, correct. Yeah.
And for me, these are the three biggest mistakes.
Perhaps for someone else it's going to be different,
but I just felt that these are important to mention.
Yeah, definitely.
(12:56):
And so you mentioned earlier a bit about what led you to create the Freelance Business Community.
So could you touch a bit more on that?
And also explain a little bit more exactly what the Freelance Business Community is.
Yeah. Well, it started as an idea.
And that's why I always say, if you have an idea,
just try to make it work, you will soon understand whether
(13:20):
it's worth a while to do anything further or not.
So I had an idea that I want to create an event for freelancers
as event professional by my co-business.
That is natural that I wanted to create something for freelancers.
And at that time, I met someone and she agreed to become a partner in that.
(13:42):
So we produced a local event here in Brussels a couple of times, I believe.
Unfortunately, we had to part ways with that person.
But since then, actually, the Freelance Business Community
took a different form.
The missions still stayed the same.
And the mission is to connect the freelance economy in general
(14:02):
and support freelancers worldwide to become successful.
But we opened doors not only to Belgian freelancers,
but we have more than 60 countries right now.
And I think unique thing about the Freelance Business Community
is that we're not only focusing on freelancers as such,
(14:23):
even though it's our main big pillar of our community.
We also talk about platforms.
We talk about those who are hiring freelancers.
And we're trying to educate each of these categories.
We talk to platforms, how to work with freelancers,
An for our freelancers to
understand how to work with platforms.
(14:44):
The same with companies, who are hiring freelancers,
we explain what it takes to hire a freelancer.
So it's becoming a bit of a multi-facet organization at this point.
OK.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Super interesting.
And I actually read on your website.
They now have over 8,000 members, as you said,
(15:05):
from 60 different countries.
And so you mentioned you hosted some events.
But what else has, what are some key factors that
have really contributed to the growth of this community?
Well, yeah.
The growth was quite organic.
We didn't throw too much.
I would say too much money on ads,
(15:26):
comparing with what corporates can do.
So it grew quite organically in a way.
But the main contributor is events.
Surprisingly, every time we run a project conference,
then we see inflow of members.
We count a member as anyone who is joining our activity.
(15:49):
So our biggest initiative is Freelance Business Month,
which has been visited by more than 3,000 people lately.
And throughout the year, we run master classes and other conferences
dedicated to specific issues of freelancing,
or specific categories of freelancers.
So that's our growth hack.
(16:14):
And so what type of freelancers, mostly
join the Freelance Business Community? Would you say it's more
freelancers starting out that need support,
or maybe more senior freelancers that are looking for more networking
and to connect with other freelancers?
Well, we see both actually.
And because of the content that we offer during the events,
(16:39):
it varies from how to start a freelance business
to how to grow a freelance business.
We see starting freelancers coming and also those
already in the process a long time, but would like to be inspired
how to do things differently or find connections.
Interestingly, since we're active from different social medias,
(17:01):
as well, we also notice a different audience represented
more or less in different channels.
On LinkedIn, for instance, we have lots of senior freelancers.
On Instagram, I would say we have more juniors
and Twitter, something in between.
Yeah, I know this makes sense.
So I like the way
(17:23):
it's created in the way it is at the moment,
because that gives lots of food for thought also.
And also for us to tap into different aspects
and different problems of each of the categories of freelancers.
Thanks for answering that.
And so you say, headquartered in Belgium?
I mean, most of it takes place in Europe.
(17:46):
the Freelance Business Community, right?
So I was wondering, what are some current trends and developments
of freelancing in Europe?
And how do you think they're affecting the job market
and the way people work now?
I mean, freelancing has grown a lot, especially during the pandemic.
Yeah, that's true.
And actually, I would like to tone this question a little bit different way.
(18:08):
And I would say that job market is disturbing freelancing.
Because if we look at the way the labor market exists for the moment,
it's been like this for the last 100 years,
plus minus the legislation that supports the protection of workers,
(18:31):
the social security behind.
But until then, it was pretty much wild wild west, if I can say, right?
I don't know if it was even regulated somehow
that someone goes to work on the factory, I guess we can take industrial age at this point.
And they get a wage of some sort.
(18:52):
If we look even deeper, the war freelancers and entrepreneurs who
were doing something by the hands, right?
So the freelancing actually existed much longer than the current system of work,
as we know.
So I would say that the job is disturbing freelancing.
If we look in a global scale.
(19:13):
But to answer your question, you're totally correct to mention,
pandemic changed the way we work.
Actually, it didn't change, it existed.
I remember my times that I was with the customer at that time.
And we were having this remote setup already for years.
And when pandemic hit, the customer didn't even suffer.
Because that's how they worked before.
(19:35):
It's like, OK, this all normal, nothing happened.
But at the same time, lots of companies who actually were shocked.
I was seeing what's happening right now, all the layoffs in tech sector and people
losing jobs during pandemic, I guess it opens up the doors to people to consider other options
(19:56):
because they have to.
And in fact, I think freelancing is more secure than just having a job in these days.
Imagine if you lose a job, I'm not sure how it is in other countries.
I guess there is some sort of protection for those who lose a job and you get several months of payment
and stuff.
But then what? What are the chances that you'll find another job?
(20:19):
Probably very minimal.
You either have to change sector for instance if a job is outdated or imagine something else.
So freelancing in that sense allows more flexibility.
How it is changing also, you are correctly mentioned that more senior profiles go into consultancy.
(20:40):
Let's put it like this.
And actually, much younger generation is now looking into freelancing straight right from the
university.
For several reason, one is that they don't want to be stuck.
They want to have freedom, maybe they still want to travel and see the world, but they still can work.
(21:03):
Why not? That's an excellent opportunity for them to earn some money and still travel.
Perhaps by their life design, they don't want to be associated with one company.
They want to create something themselves and a love a thing and people being so courageous and entrepreneurial
that they immediately start doing something without thinking that they need to have years of experience.
(21:28):
As our generation probably thinks, in order to sell themselves as experts and something.
I think that's a very big shift right now.
We also see more and more platforms coming as you know, of course yourself.
And different generation platforms, like I mentioned, who are more concerned about building
(21:51):
relationship between freelancers and clients and offer actually skills and talents instead of just
a name, in the database, right?
That anyone can find, maybe even on LinkedIn.
I guess this are the main changes that are happening right now.
I hope what will change also is that the freelance industry as such will become more senior
(22:18):
as an industry. I think it's still young, even though as a definition, it existed for a long time,
but as an industry and a mainstream a little bit, it's still very young.
I just hope it will get more recognition.
Amongst as many as possible including governments. For example, here in Belgium, I was trying to find someone
who would be responsible for relationships with self-employed and I couldn't find.
(22:45):
There are so many people who are actually into that, that you cannot even find, who is that one person who
you need to talk to. I know that there are certain associations that now come into play,
who are actually looking into that issue starting from creating a vocabulary and working on definitions,
that it's clear to everyone. And freelancers is a not-called so many different names that we can find,
(23:12):
or we can hear depending who we talk to. To a HR person to, yeah.
No, I completely agree. Can we just call everyone freelancers?
Yeah, exactly. Not contingent worker or whatever.
So, yeah, I guess we're moving in a very interesting direction and I'm happy to be in that space.
(23:32):
Yeah, we're moving in the right direction. Yeah, so looking ahead, what are your plans for the future
of the Freelance Business Community and what goals do you hope to achieve in the years to come?
Wow, I have to know.
Big question. I have to now open all the cards. Yeah. Let's say, I'm actually very excited because
(23:54):
there is so much untapped matter in this field that for us it's important to set priorities right.
There is so much that can be done for the community. It still functions a little bit as a
non-profit, even though we try to generate funds to support our operations
with partners that we work with. So, I guess for us it's important to make it on a very stable
(24:18):
financial rails that it can continue operations without, I would say,
continue operations with a bigber team, right? Because there is so much you can accomplish if you have
like three people or much more if we have 10 or 15 for example. So, what we're looking into
is expanding offline because the community started as offline, then turn into online, grew quite significantly.
(24:44):
And now my aspiration is to build local communities around the world as much as possible.
With local ambassadors representing everyone's business community as a brand and
producing their own meetups or conferences or whatever. Because I believe this is how we meet
and exchange via events and I want to carry this forward to other communities. And also help them
(25:07):
with their community management skills and event management skills, if it's necessary.
So, that's one of the big, big step, or projects that we'd like to accomplish. Maybe not this year,
even like several years ahead. And also we're working into more education, more quality education,
(25:29):
I would say, for freelancers, we've seen more than 200 experts on our virtual stage speaking and
sharing about everything, freelance related. So, we have ready to focus into very much quality
production for the educational component. And many other things that I'm not going to mention at
(25:51):
the moment. It'll be a surprise for later. Exactly. We'll see later. But yeah, anyway, Elina, this has been
such a great conversation, inspiring as well, actually. Thank you so much for sharing your
freelancing journey with us and best of luck with the Freelance Business Community. Thanks a lot for
having me. Thank you for joining us at Outvise Insights. If you're looking to hire top freelance talents
(26:18):
or find your next project, visit www.outvise.com
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