June 5, 2023 • 27 mins
The 13th arrondissement is often overlooked simply because most people don't know a lot about it. In this episode, I have a great chat with Heather Stimmler, who has lived in the area for almost two decades. You will probably be surprised to hear everything Heather shares with us and it may make you want to check out the 13th yourself!
The question is, however, would Heather would choose to live there if she could live anywhere she wanted to in Paris…?
Be sure to have a look at Heather's fabulous website, Secrets of Paris, https://secretsofparis.com/ and follow her on Instagram for 'real' secrets of Paris https://www.instagram.com/secretsofparis/
Join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/parisundergroundradio
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Credits
Music Credits
Music: Jazz In Paris - Media Right Productions https://youtu.be/mNLJMTRvyj8
About Us
Welcome to Paris Estate of Mind! Join hosts Gail Boisclair and Marie Pistinier as we talk about the good, the bad, the ins, the outs of property rentals and purchases in and around Paris. We'll have topics for renters, owners, and visitors, share questions we are regularly asked, and more.
Have a question for the podcast? Send us an email at hello@parisundergroundradio.com.
The question is, however, would Heather would choose to live there if she could live anywhere she wanted to in Paris…?
Be sure to have a look at Heather's fabulous website, Secrets of Paris, https://secretsofparis.com/ and follow her on Instagram for 'real' secrets of Paris https://www.instagram.com/secretsofparis/
Join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/parisundergroundradio
Find Us Online
Website: https:/parisundergroundradio.com/parisestateofmind
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/parisundergroundradio
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parisundergroundradio/
Credits
- Host: Gail Boisclair. @PerfectlyParis; Website: PerfectlyParis, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
- Host: Marie Pistinier. Lokim on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and Paris Be A Part Of It on Facebook, and Instagram.
- Producer: Jennifer Geraghty. @jennyphoria; Website: http://jennyphoria.com
Music Credits
Music: Jazz In Paris - Media Right Productions https://youtu.be/mNLJMTRvyj8
About Us
Welcome to Paris Estate of Mind! Join hosts Gail Boisclair and Marie Pistinier as we talk about the good, the bad, the ins, the outs of property rentals and purchases in and around Paris. We'll have topics for renters, owners, and visitors, share questions we are regularly asked, and more.
Have a question for the podcast? Send us an email at hello@parisundergroundradio.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening to Paris the State ofMind on Paris Underground Radio. For more
great content, join us on Patreonat Patreon dot com slash Paris Underground Radio.
Welcome to Paris a State of Mind. Join us as we talk about
the good, the bad, theends, the outs of property, rentals
(00:22):
and purchases in and around Paris.We'll have topics for renters, owners and
visitors, share questions we are regularlyasked and more. My name is Gael
Barclaire of Perfectly Paris and my cohost is Marie Pistigner of Lokim Paris.
Be a part of it. Bothof us are proud members of the SPLM,
(00:43):
the first representative body of furnished rentalprofessionals. Hello, Hello, Hello,
We are in the podcast room forParis the State of Mind and we
are interviewing someone for our never endingseries about why do you like or maybe
not living in your rondis small inyour area. So today I have the
(01:10):
pleasure of welcoming my wonderful world famous. The whole world knows her, and
if you don't know her, youshould. Heather Stimmler. She is a
dual French American citizen living in Francesince nineteen ninety five, and people think
that I've lived here long, shesurpasses my record and the past nineteen years
(01:33):
she's been in Paris's thirteenth to rondissmall and I'm sure you all know Heather
for her also world famous website calledSecrets of Paris, and she's had a
newsletter with Secrets of Paris since nineteenninety nine. She is the editor,
creator and jack of all trades forSecrets of Paris. Please, Heather,
(01:57):
welcome to our show. Thanks,it's great to be here. So well,
before I get into asking my personalquestions, what a rondissement do you
currently live in, even though Igave that away in the intro, I
live in the thirteenth aarondissement. Andwhat's your closest metro station. The closest
is olympiad ah, okay, fourteenAnd how long have you lived there?
(02:20):
Nineteen years? He said, nineteenyears in the neighborhood. I spent the
first fourteen years one metro stop awayfrom here. I used to live at
Plas. Oh wow, so youwere like a true blue thirteenth person.
Oh yeah, and before I livedhere the first three years I lived in
Paris. I lived in the fifthairon Dessement, just like like literally like
(02:42):
a block from the thirteenth. Ilived the very bottom of Rue mouf Dar
and I lived on the Rubroca also, which are both like right like literally
like the next street over is thethirteenth. So I've always been close to
the thirteenth. That's funny. Andso with all of this this, what
are full history of the thirteenth?Is there a reason why you chose to
(03:04):
live in this particular area? No, I mean, I definitely mean,
and I've lived. I've lived inthe eighteenth, I've lived in the ninth,
I've lived in the sixteenth. Mygod, that was the shortest.
Sorry for all of you who livedin the sixtieth. I lived in the
South branth and I lived I livedin suburbia for a year, which was
a misguided idea in my thirties.And then so I was looking for a
(03:28):
place to come back to and Iwasn't specifically back that it was in two
thousand and four. I wasn't specificallylooking for the thirteenth. But as soon
as I saw the ad it wason the bulletin board at the American Church
as soon as I saw the address, I knew it was on the Avenue
de Gaublant, and I was like, definitely, and I lived there and
just and I loved it. Andso that's how I it's sort of accidentally,
(03:50):
remember somebody asking me once, aFrench person, like, why do
you live in the thirteenth. Yeah, but then yeah, after living here
for so long, when I startedlooking to buy in twenty seventeen, I
definitely focused on this part of theThirteenth because I just love it. Yeah,
(04:10):
I mean I actually I don't goto the Thirteenth often, but I
do have an apartment that I managein the thirteenth, but it's long term,
let's only it's at BiblioTech Nacionale,so not very far from you.
And actually, until I had thatapartment to manage, I really truly didn't
spend that much time in the thirteenth. And I could say, you know,
(04:32):
what I think about the area aroundthere, I found it surprisingly much
more interesting than what I thought.Really, Yeah, you know, most
I don't think any tourists really knowthe Thirteenth unless they for some reason went
to Chinatown for the parade. Buteven Parisians don't really know it, and
I have to I have to admitI kind of don't want to talk about
(04:56):
it because I don't want anyone toknow. I worked in tourism for almost
seventeen years full time, and thethirteenth felt like my little escape from the
rest of Paris because it's it's mostlyresidents who live here full time students.
There are very very little, youknow, airbnbs, like short term vacation
(05:19):
rentals. If there are, theymight be more closer to the Fifth so
I get Bhuto Kai or in theGobland neighborhood. But yeah, I just
I like, I like that it'sit's still affordable. There aren't any that
I know of tourist shops. It'sjust it's like there's like a normal normal
(05:40):
and I don't want to say quoteunquote real Paris. I hate when people
say it's the real Pairs, andlike, what's the imaginary like the imaginary
Pairs, But yeah, I livein imaginary Paris exactly. No. I
just I think it's just it justmeans that everybody here lives here. It's
not so all of the shops andall of the restaurants and all the cafes
there are for the people who livehere. They're not trying to impress tourists
(06:00):
or worse, just getting off onhaving tourists and knowing they don't have to
be good because there'll always be moretourists. They actually all the places that
are here have to be good becauseif they don't get the residence, they're
going to get nobody. Yeah,so I do like that aspect of it.
It feels like a break plus likeit's a very casual neighborhood. Like
I don't feel like I have todress up to walk around in the thirteen
(06:23):
some parts of Paris. I wouldnever go without makeup on, just saying,
oh, I hardly ever put makeupon unless I've got, like,
I don't know, a real specialevening or whatever, I'm trying to look
special for someone's special day, orwe got to work towards that. It's
called like laziness. Actually, Igot out of the habit of putting methcaren
(06:46):
things on with COVID. Yeah,lipstick for me for sure. But yeah,
I was a tour guide for fourteenyears, so I mean I spent
more time than most people in likethe center tourist parts of Paris, and
you know, I do love them, but at the same time, it
was nice to sort of feel likeI had a break, like a little
escape from all of that. I'msure you said that you really love the
(07:11):
fact that everybody kind of lives there. It seems very I guess neighborly.
It feels like a real neighborhood.Probably your your local commercons they recognize you,
and I even say ojule ma'am yeah, And I mean it's there's there's
a lot. The thirteenth is huge, like all of the outer erndissements,
(07:32):
so there's a lot of neighborhoods withinit, and my neighborhood just one metro
stop away. And I say onemetro because I'm actually between Olympia and Nacionale
of the most confusing metro stops,because there's Nacion yes I know, which
is also at the end of Linesix, and then Nacionale. So Nacionale
is on the Line six, onestop after Plastically, so that's at the
(07:54):
bottom of my street. But Ihave to go up hill for that,
so I don't, oh, no, down hill. I like. I
like the the fourteen has never onstroke. Oh yeah, I know,
you're it's true. That's a greatthing. Yeah, so I like that
about this neighborhood. The neighborhood here, the community is feels very different from
the community when I lived on thePlastic Deli on the Avenue de Gaubrand,
(08:16):
which looks and feels very much likethe fifth Are on these moment has all
the houseman buildings, and then likea blockover you've got the Bouto Kai,
which is very cute, and peoplesay it's like Moltmartre. I don't.
I don't feel like it's like Moltmartreat all. But that's probably because I
live close to it, so Isee the difference. You know, the
Botokai is very it's very studenty,it's very casual. It's like, you
know, it's a big street withlots of bars, and it's fun,
(08:39):
and it's got all the cute littlegarden bungalows. And then this neighborhood.
I mean now I live in anold building across from a church right at
the on the plasterial and dark.If you take line six and you're looking
at all the street art, atone point you'll see to your right.
If you're heading towards like Barca,you'll see on the right a little church
at the top of the hill andthat's my that's my square, So it's
super cute from my view of mywindow. But I'm also surrounded by nineteen
(09:03):
sixties and seventies towers, which alot of people do not like. That's
what most people think of when theythink of the thirteenth or all of these
towers. Yeah, so you havehuge number of families. I mean,
there's three schools on this square aswell. There's just it just seems like
the school run the sidewalks are justfull of strollers. It's it's very very
(09:26):
family oriented. There's and because ofall the towers and all of the families,
there are so many supermarkets, likethere's i mean, even like during
COVID there was no problem of everfinding anything because there's like seven supermarkets on
like within a block of me andmore after that, just because there's so
many people. But it doesn't itdoesn't feel crowded, which is strange.
It doesn't feel like, you know, like walking down the river rivally on
(09:46):
a day. But I do,like, you know, there's there's the
neighborhood around the BiblioTech, which supermodern. And I'm from Arizona, where
everything's new. Also, the BiblioTechis weird because everything, everything that's there
has been built except for the Freego, the old artist Squad, which I
love, and I used to visitthe Freego when I was a student and
(10:07):
nothing around it was there. Ihave a sketch I made from the steps
of the BiblioTech when they were buildingit, so the steps were there,
but they didn't the buildings weren't thereyet, so I could sit on the
steps and sketch the Frego. Andnow if I sit in that same spot,
there's you can't sitting. Yeah,but yeah, that's I I like
running around that. I called theboardwalk the wooden platform around the BiblioTech because
(10:28):
yeah, it's pretty neat looking.Actually it is. It is, and
you know, there's all these dancersthere, especially on the weekends, but
because you know, it's like thesebig glass walls and there's just tons of
space and there's nobody there, soall like they'll be like people working out
and looking at themselves in herrors,but lots of dancers, like they'll be
like one person or they'll be likea group of people. There's like a
famous guy I can never remember whathis name is, but he's like he's
(10:50):
like a professional moonwalker. He's prettyhe's always out there with a huge crowd
around him. But I don't thinkit's Michael Jackson. It's Michael Jackson,
but he's a young he's a youngFrench guy and he's very good. I'm
sure people have seen him. Ithink he's like sponsored by the Coast.
Now. Oh wow, so he'spretty good. But he's like you've got
(11:11):
down the weekend. Now it's hilarious, because yeah, it just looks like
you could just kind of walk aroundand see like all these groups of kids
dancing and all different ages, andit's fun. But you can actually see
people. I don't think people knowthis. When you walk around there,
you can actually see Notre Dame inthe distance. We didn't know that perspective.
And then you go around the otherside where the bridge is the Simone
(11:31):
de Beauvoir Passarel that goes to BercyPark, and from there you can see
like just before you get on it, you can see Sacred cur So it's
like you see these central Parisian monumentsfrom this really bizarre modern part of the
city. I always find that surprising. But then you get the Chinatown neighborhood,
which is obviously well known and it'squite big as well. And then
below that you have the areas alongI guess the peif which some of them
(11:54):
I guess, like the least expensivepart of tow of the thirteenth is along
there, but are mostly social housing. Okay, so yeah, they would
never be really open to most normalrenters anyway. But then I mean you've
got the whole part, Like aroundGoblin, you've got the there's like lovely
parks that are sort of hidden,there's the square Renee Lagal behind there,
(12:15):
and then you go towards Glacier,you've got all these cute, these cute
little I mean, they're really hidden. You have to kind of find them,
but you can feel like these You'llgo down these like little cobblestoned streets
and these little houses with little tinygardens that you see cuts houses. You
see them in the twentieth as well, but they're also hidden in the thirteenth.
But again, I think you reallyhave to look between all of these
kind of weird skyscrapers that are allover to find I hate these the word
(12:39):
to find the hidden gems. Butwhen I was over the years, when
I started running. I really,I really discovered the neighborhood when I started
running, because I needed to findnew things to look at because I get
bored easily. And then during COVID, you know, we were trapped with
one kilometer, so I just keptfinding all these new things. And you
know along the river we've got allthe boat the Penichas, so the Batto
(13:01):
far I think they called something elsenow. And then when I was a
student, I used to go tothe used to be called the Ganget Pierrat.
Now it's now it's the damn duCanton. Oh, I don't know
the new name. I only rememberthe old name. Yeah. Yeah,
So I mean there's there's there's justlots of like different parts of the thirteenth
so you can sort of figure outwhich area you like and just stay there.
(13:24):
So you can stay in a partthat's all cute and old, where
you can go to a part that'snew and modern. And again, like
once you've been in Paris for afew decades, sometimes seeing really modern stuff
is refreshing. And do you think, like for somebody that is maybe moving
to Paris hasn't lived here before,what have you do you think that they
(13:45):
would enjoy living in the thirteenth aroundyou, let's say, around on a
pied. I think it depends whatthey're expecting where to come from. I
mean, yeah, it's I actuallythink most people would like it because it
has that sort of mix of ofthe old and news. So it's not
a housing tends to be a littlebit more up to date. Yeah,
(14:05):
I can starts like you're not You'renot going to have like I don't think
there's any buildings in this neighborhood thatare from like the sixteen hundreds, just
because I'm pretty sure it was all, oh my gosh, like back even
like before World War One. Ithink like this neighborhood was one of the
last to be put on the gridfor Paris, and there's just not I
think it was much like almost likeshantytown back and back before it became part
(14:28):
of Paris. So so you don'thave like like when you go into the
deep end of the Moray and intocentral Monday Pray, you have like these
ancient buildings that are you know,they're medieval, full of character, not
fun to renovate around here that youhave a lot more kind of more because
like mine's considered really old, butit's you know, it's like it's nineteen
(14:48):
o two, I think, soit's not that old pre Paris standards.
If you're enjoying this episode of ParisA State of Mind, you may also
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(15:11):
Mind will be right back after aword from our sponsors, and now back
to Paris A State of Mind.So you said that there were in your
particular area where you live, aroundyour neighborhood, there's a lot of families,
you get ran over by a strollersand so on, and yeah,
(15:31):
yeah, yeah, so yeah,there's there's lots of schools, there are
lots of playgrounds. Yeah, sois it more like a family oriented neighborhood
where you are? Um, you'vegot I mean, this university is right
next door too, and obviously becauseon stasione F can't forget that to be
oh yeah, startup incubator, whichis probably the closest thing we have to
(15:52):
hipsters in our neighborhood now, becausedefinitely not not a sort of obo free
zone. Somebody joke, No,I think it is. It is great
for families. It is slightly Isay slightly. You you obviously know this's
more affordable than other parts of Paris, But I just I think it's good
because it's a lot easier to findthe space. The sidewalks are a little
(16:14):
bit wider. Again, there's lotsof parks with like even if they're like
little parks, they're everywhere whereas Iknow certain when I lived on the Right
Bank and I had my dogs,it was so hard to find a place.
Well that you can take dogs intoparks, but most parks, but
it was so hard to find littleparks I think in the ninth when I
lived in the ninth it was likeno park. Yeah, you're also really
(16:36):
close to some really big parts here, Like you're right, we're right next
to the Jean Dennick plant and acrossthe bridge from Darcy Park and parkmul Sire
down at the bottom, so we'resort of like right in between all of
that. But I think it's Ithink it's pretty family friendly. But yeah,
that's a lot probably like the fourteenthand fifteenth as well, and a
lot of a lot of diversity withthe with the Chinatown and you also have
(16:59):
a lot of a large population fromAfrica as well in this neighborhood, and
we do have which you know,some people think of this as a plus,
other people might not. We haveone of the largest percentages of public
housing of any errand desement in Paris. Oh I didn't know that. Yeah.
The thirteenth is we're very silly dertehere. We are quite quite left
(17:21):
leaning politically in this neighborhood, sothat probably does automatically attract a lot of
maybe younger families, single even maybestudents. Yeah, there are a lot
of students with affordable housing. Thedownside with all the public housing is that,
I mean there's all especially the towers, and somebody asking how can you
tell which ones are which? Usuallypublic housing don't have balconies. Student housing
(17:47):
also do not have balconies, justwindows flat. I guess the big differences
with all these towers is that,you know, the neighborhood can gentrify all
at once, but those towers arenever going to go away. You know,
they're not going to tear down Olympiad, so it's never going It's not
like when you look at parts ofthe eighteenth or I'm sure that even the
fifteenth where people might not like theneighborhood, but the architecture has got good.
(18:11):
You know, it's like a goodwork. But so someday it'll it'll
gentrify. They're just waiting, waitingfor it to gentrify. But yeah,
here it's like you can't. Youcan't gentrify when I think something like twelve
percent of the housing is social housing. So yeah, it's but again,
it makes it. I think itkeeps it from and I again I say
(18:32):
this very gently, but like Iremember when I was a student, I
loved the Marae and I could shopin the Marae and all the students we
still have hanging out in the Moray. And now the Marae is way too
expensive. I don't think that'll everhappen to the thirteenth. It's it's just
not the kind of place you wouldsee a luxury shop open, right.
Yeah. And do you think thatthere's things that people should know before they
(18:55):
were to say, move into thearea, or things that you even wish
that you knew before you moved intothe area. Oh yeah, I knew
a lot about it, so Ithink I came in pretty open eyed.
I did not realize. Well,I didn't think that hard about it that,
but I knew the plastaly is likethe plastic la bestI. It's usually
either the beginning or the end ofMannifs on the left bank. You know,
(19:18):
you're right. And that's one thingthat I never mentioned to people when
I say, oh, yeah it'sSaturday, there must be a demonstration or
something, so avoid the hypb bleakin bestI. But yeah, that's detai
as well, because that's often theend. Yeah. My old apartment was
on the top floor. It wasact technically it was like behind the Mary,
so it was like taller than theMary, so I could I had
(19:41):
my window overlooked the plast and Iused to joke that I could have the
manif camp just set up in mywindow so that I could see when there
was a manif, which was,as you say, like pretty much every
weekend. But yeah, if youdon't like having your building, you know,
kind of covered in stickers for aday and a bunch of marching outside
with their flares. And when Ilived there, it hadn't gotten that bad
(20:03):
yet quote unquote breaking stuff and settingstuff on fire, so that was never
I don't remember being worried about that. But I mean obviously the whole like
within a block of PLASTICI all thestreets around at all the banks and all
the real estate agents put up youknow, wooden boards on their facades the
days that there are marches. Soso if that, you know, if
that freaks people out, maybe don'tlive on the Plastitli or along those big
(20:26):
boulevards. But otherwise, I meanagain like yeah, it's not there's not
a lot of kind of trendy placesexcept at the Bhuta Kai and right around
BiblioTech maybe there's like kind of morestudent y type of bars, but in
general, yeah, it's more ofa I guess it's Yeah, it's more
of like it's a nice place togo out, and all the shops are
(20:47):
like shops for you know, it'slike the hardware store and the store,
and like it's it's a it's avery convenient place I think to live.
So it's you don't have to likego out, you don't have to go
far to go shop, like tofind a shop. I don't have to
order everything on Amazon. All theregular stores are here, which yeah,
I think most people when you whenyou live right in the center of Parison.
(21:10):
I used to live by the waywhere right above where is now Leromerlan.
I lived in the lived in thecarcade orlage really a little tiktoking dragon
club. I didn't know that.Yeah, I lived there when I first
got married, and in a reallymodern building that I loved because I had
a garbage shoot. I thought thatwas so cool. But yeah, I
lived there and the li Romerlan hadn'topen yet, so when I lived there,
(21:33):
you still had to go to BHVSuso for like a hammer or oh.
I loved that. Yeah, backwhen it was amazed and impossible to
find anything. I know, Iknow, I know they changed it now.
I know it's so clean and easyto get around now. But yeah,
I kind of liked when it wasamazed and you had to go in
circles to try to find something.But there's there's so many fun like things
(21:56):
that I think the good surprise here, Like there's again like it is very
much like a let's help people,like help the community, a very silly
dairy taste. So like we havefood markets here, there's one, like
usually I have to go like ablock or two to find a food market
on any given day, and there'sone my square. But they have a
lot of places like they have likea solidarity food truck where you pay what
(22:17):
you want and you can pay extra, so that's have to pay anything.
And all the food that's really niceit is, and all the food is
made from donated ingredients from restaurants andsupermarkets in the neighborhood, and the people
who cook are also volunteers. Andthen there's like a place and I'm going
to blank on what it's called.I think it's called the Petite contin where
(22:37):
it's just like a place you cango and you can either just join for
people for lunch or dinner, oryou can join in and help cook the
meal and then stay for lunch anddinners. It's just like a way that
like people don't have to eat bythemselves. That's nice. Yeah, So
there's a lot of things like that, which again like they're not really it's
not really for tourists, I say, air quotes, but it's nice if
(22:59):
you want to feel like there's acommunity that you can join. There's definitely
tons of stuff to join if you'rea jointment, if you want to be
left alone and not want to talkto your neighbors, but maybe this isn't
the place, and is there anythingelse you'd like to add about the area.
We've got great street art, sureeverybody's heard that we got yes,
and they are awesome because all thosehorrible high rise towers. The mayor decided
(23:22):
to invite all these famous street artistsfrom all over the world, Like Shepherd
Ferry didn't one right down the streetfor me to come and do these massive
murals on the sides of these buildings. So it's fun. Although the neighborhood
is so spread out, I recommendif you do come to see them,
maybe come on a bicycle, butyou can take Line six like through these
towers and you'll see a bunch ofthem from the metro. Oh yeah,
that's true. That's true. Well, thank you very much. I think
(23:45):
that gives everyone a very good overviewof the thirteenth, a very There are
some Ameraldi smalls in Paris that arelesser known, and I think the thirteenth
is one of them, which ispart of the reason why I'm glad that
you came on the show, becauseit might open people's eyes, even people
who are living here who might wantto move, but not too many people,
(24:08):
because Heather will like want her thirteenthto say the same. Yeah,
not too many, although yes,like I think I just told you last
week there was an apartment above me. That was because the fan. The
couple have another kid, so they'removing closer to the grandparents, but they
want to keep it. So Iwanted somebody I know upstairs though strangers.
(24:29):
But yeah, they filled it up, but learn it And so I might
already know the answer to this,but I ask everyone this question. If
you could be money is no object, nothing is. It's your magic dream
apartment. You could be anywhere youwant in the city, and you could
have any apartment you want, anytype of apartment. Where would it be
(24:52):
in? What type of apartment?Oh, this is a horrible thing to
say after saying so many nice thingsabout the thirteenth, But I would.
I would in a second. I'dlive at Pale Royale in the gardens.
Oh wow, that would be nice. Yeah. I think it's great because
you're like right on the one inthe seven Yeah, really close to the
four team line, and you're rightin the middle. But it seems like
it's quiet at night, So yeah, I feel like that would be perfect.
(25:15):
I saw one apartment for rent once, like a like a one bedroom
apartment there, and it was likefive thousand a month. When I win
the lottery, i'll be looking therea gale. Yeah, that's out of
my budget. There you go.I did actually once, as as you
said, I saw an apartment.It was a one bedroom apartment for potential
property management and things and for longterm as well too. And I know
(25:41):
exactly what you're saying because it wasup on a higher floor. The views
were amazing and it just, Idon't know, you kind of felt like
a king or a queen up there, I think. So. Yeah,
very advious of all the people thatlive there, yas. Yeah, well,
thank you very much. And beforewe go, I would like you
to just let everyone know how theycan find you, and Secrets of Paris
(26:04):
as well too. Yeah. WellI'm at Secrets of Paris dot com and
I'm on Instagram, I think alsounder Secrets of Paris, and I do
talk about the Thirteenth a lot aseasiest. Yeah, so if you're curious
about the Thirteenth, Yeah, youcan follow me and follow you, Yes,
adding new stuff about my neighborhood onthere. Well, what I'll do
(26:26):
is I'll put your website and yourInstagram handle in the show notes so people
can reach out and say, Hi, Heather, we love the thirteenth,
or are you crazy? Or maybemaybe your fairy godmother will hear it and
say I have an apartment for youat Yale. I'll swap yeah, just
(26:47):
where terms out? You know?Well, Thank you very much, a
pleasure as always, Heather, It'sbeen fun. Thanks, have a good
day. Thanks for listening to ParisA State of Mind featuring Gale of Perfectly
Paris and Marie of Lokim, bothwho are founding members of the SPLM.
Paris the State of Mind is producedby Paris Underground Radio, the Music Jazz
(27:14):
and Paris Is by Mediawrite Productions.For more information on this show and others,
go to Paris Underground Radio dot com. This episode of Paris the State
of Mind was produced by Jennifer Garrityfor Paris Underground Radio. For more great
content, join us on Patreon atPatreon dot com slash Paris Underground Radio
You're listening to Paris the State ofMind on Paris Underground Radio. For more
great content, join us on Patreonat Patreon dot com slash Paris Underground Radio.
Welcome to Paris a State of Mind. Join us as we talk about
the good, the bad, theends, the outs of property, rentals
(00:22):
and purchases in and around Paris.We'll have topics for renters, owners and
visitors, share questions we are regularlyasked and more. My name is Gael
Barclaire of Perfectly Paris and my cohost is Marie Pistigner of Lokim Paris.
Be a part of it. Bothof us are proud members of the SPLM,
(00:43):
the first representative body of furnished rentalprofessionals. Hello, Hello, Hello,
We are in the podcast room forParis the State of Mind and we
are interviewing someone for our never endingseries about why do you like or maybe
not living in your rondis small inyour area. So today I have the
(01:10):
pleasure of welcoming my wonderful world famous. The whole world knows her, and
if you don't know her, youshould. Heather Stimmler. She is a
dual French American citizen living in Francesince nineteen ninety five, and people think
that I've lived here long, shesurpasses my record and the past nineteen years
(01:33):
she's been in Paris's thirteenth to rondissmall and I'm sure you all know Heather
for her also world famous website calledSecrets of Paris, and she's had a
newsletter with Secrets of Paris since nineteenninety nine. She is the editor,
creator and jack of all trades forSecrets of Paris. Please, Heather,
(01:57):
welcome to our show. Thanks,it's great to be here. So well,
before I get into asking my personalquestions, what a rondissement do you
currently live in, even though Igave that away in the intro, I
live in the thirteenth aarondissement. Andwhat's your closest metro station. The closest
is olympiad ah, okay, fourteenAnd how long have you lived there?
(02:20):
Nineteen years? He said, nineteenyears in the neighborhood. I spent the
first fourteen years one metro stop awayfrom here. I used to live at
Plas. Oh wow, so youwere like a true blue thirteenth person.
Oh yeah, and before I livedhere the first three years I lived in
Paris. I lived in the fifthairon Dessement, just like like literally like
(02:42):
a block from the thirteenth. Ilived the very bottom of Rue mouf Dar
and I lived on the Rubroca also, which are both like right like literally
like the next street over is thethirteenth. So I've always been close to
the thirteenth. That's funny. Andso with all of this this, what
are full history of the thirteenth?Is there a reason why you chose to
(03:04):
live in this particular area? No, I mean, I definitely mean,
and I've lived. I've lived inthe eighteenth, I've lived in the ninth,
I've lived in the sixteenth. Mygod, that was the shortest.
Sorry for all of you who livedin the sixtieth. I lived in the
South branth and I lived I livedin suburbia for a year, which was
a misguided idea in my thirties.And then so I was looking for a
(03:28):
place to come back to and Iwasn't specifically back that it was in two
thousand and four. I wasn't specificallylooking for the thirteenth. But as soon
as I saw the ad it wason the bulletin board at the American Church
as soon as I saw the address, I knew it was on the Avenue
de Gaublant, and I was like, definitely, and I lived there and
just and I loved it. Andso that's how I it's sort of accidentally,
(03:50):
remember somebody asking me once, aFrench person, like, why do
you live in the thirteenth. Yeah, but then yeah, after living here
for so long, when I startedlooking to buy in twenty seventeen, I
definitely focused on this part of theThirteenth because I just love it. Yeah,
(04:10):
I mean I actually I don't goto the Thirteenth often, but I
do have an apartment that I managein the thirteenth, but it's long term,
let's only it's at BiblioTech Nacionale,so not very far from you.
And actually, until I had thatapartment to manage, I really truly didn't
spend that much time in the thirteenth. And I could say, you know,
(04:32):
what I think about the area aroundthere, I found it surprisingly much
more interesting than what I thought.Really, Yeah, you know, most
I don't think any tourists really knowthe Thirteenth unless they for some reason went
to Chinatown for the parade. Buteven Parisians don't really know it, and
I have to I have to admitI kind of don't want to talk about
(04:56):
it because I don't want anyone toknow. I worked in tourism for almost
seventeen years full time, and thethirteenth felt like my little escape from the
rest of Paris because it's it's mostlyresidents who live here full time students.
There are very very little, youknow, airbnbs, like short term vacation
(05:19):
rentals. If there are, theymight be more closer to the Fifth so
I get Bhuto Kai or in theGobland neighborhood. But yeah, I just
I like, I like that it'sit's still affordable. There aren't any that
I know of tourist shops. It'sjust it's like there's like a normal normal
(05:40):
and I don't want to say quoteunquote real Paris. I hate when people
say it's the real Pairs, andlike, what's the imaginary like the imaginary
Pairs, But yeah, I livein imaginary Paris exactly. No. I
just I think it's just it justmeans that everybody here lives here. It's
not so all of the shops andall of the restaurants and all the cafes
there are for the people who livehere. They're not trying to impress tourists
(06:00):
or worse, just getting off onhaving tourists and knowing they don't have to
be good because there'll always be moretourists. They actually all the places that
are here have to be good becauseif they don't get the residence, they're
going to get nobody. Yeah,so I do like that aspect of it.
It feels like a break plus likeit's a very casual neighborhood. Like
I don't feel like I have todress up to walk around in the thirteen
(06:23):
some parts of Paris. I wouldnever go without makeup on, just saying,
oh, I hardly ever put makeupon unless I've got, like,
I don't know, a real specialevening or whatever, I'm trying to look
special for someone's special day, orwe got to work towards that. It's
called like laziness. Actually, Igot out of the habit of putting methcaren
(06:46):
things on with COVID. Yeah,lipstick for me for sure. But yeah,
I was a tour guide for fourteenyears, so I mean I spent
more time than most people in likethe center tourist parts of Paris, and
you know, I do love them, but at the same time, it
was nice to sort of feel likeI had a break, like a little
escape from all of that. I'msure you said that you really love the
(07:11):
fact that everybody kind of lives there. It seems very I guess neighborly.
It feels like a real neighborhood.Probably your your local commercons they recognize you,
and I even say ojule ma'am yeah, And I mean it's there's there's
a lot. The thirteenth is huge, like all of the outer erndissements,
(07:32):
so there's a lot of neighborhoods withinit, and my neighborhood just one metro
stop away. And I say onemetro because I'm actually between Olympia and Nacionale
of the most confusing metro stops,because there's Nacion yes I know, which
is also at the end of Linesix, and then Nacionale. So Nacionale
is on the Line six, onestop after Plastically, so that's at the
(07:54):
bottom of my street. But Ihave to go up hill for that,
so I don't, oh, no, down hill. I like. I
like the the fourteen has never onstroke. Oh yeah, I know,
you're it's true. That's a greatthing. Yeah, so I like that
about this neighborhood. The neighborhood here, the community is feels very different from
the community when I lived on thePlastic Deli on the Avenue de Gaubrand,
(08:16):
which looks and feels very much likethe fifth Are on these moment has all
the houseman buildings, and then likea blockover you've got the Bouto Kai,
which is very cute, and peoplesay it's like Moltmartre. I don't.
I don't feel like it's like Moltmartreat all. But that's probably because I
live close to it, so Isee the difference. You know, the
Botokai is very it's very studenty,it's very casual. It's like, you
know, it's a big street withlots of bars, and it's fun,
(08:39):
and it's got all the cute littlegarden bungalows. And then this neighborhood.
I mean now I live in anold building across from a church right at
the on the plasterial and dark.If you take line six and you're looking
at all the street art, atone point you'll see to your right.
If you're heading towards like Barca,you'll see on the right a little church
at the top of the hill andthat's my that's my square, So it's
super cute from my view of mywindow. But I'm also surrounded by nineteen
(09:03):
sixties and seventies towers, which alot of people do not like. That's
what most people think of when theythink of the thirteenth or all of these
towers. Yeah, so you havehuge number of families. I mean,
there's three schools on this square aswell. There's just it just seems like
the school run the sidewalks are justfull of strollers. It's it's very very
(09:26):
family oriented. There's and because ofall the towers and all of the families,
there are so many supermarkets, likethere's i mean, even like during
COVID there was no problem of everfinding anything because there's like seven supermarkets on
like within a block of me andmore after that, just because there's so
many people. But it doesn't itdoesn't feel crowded, which is strange.
It doesn't feel like, you know, like walking down the river rivally on
(09:46):
a day. But I do,like, you know, there's there's the
neighborhood around the BiblioTech, which supermodern. And I'm from Arizona, where
everything's new. Also, the BiblioTechis weird because everything, everything that's there
has been built except for the Freego, the old artist Squad, which I
love, and I used to visitthe Freego when I was a student and
(10:07):
nothing around it was there. Ihave a sketch I made from the steps
of the BiblioTech when they were buildingit, so the steps were there,
but they didn't the buildings weren't thereyet, so I could sit on the
steps and sketch the Frego. Andnow if I sit in that same spot,
there's you can't sitting. Yeah,but yeah, that's I I like
running around that. I called theboardwalk the wooden platform around the BiblioTech because
(10:28):
yeah, it's pretty neat looking.Actually it is. It is, and
you know, there's all these dancersthere, especially on the weekends, but
because you know, it's like thesebig glass walls and there's just tons of
space and there's nobody there, soall like they'll be like people working out
and looking at themselves in herrors,but lots of dancers, like they'll be
like one person or they'll be likea group of people. There's like a
famous guy I can never remember whathis name is, but he's like he's
(10:50):
like a professional moonwalker. He's prettyhe's always out there with a huge crowd
around him. But I don't thinkit's Michael Jackson. It's Michael Jackson,
but he's a young he's a youngFrench guy and he's very good. I'm
sure people have seen him. Ithink he's like sponsored by the Coast.
Now. Oh wow, so he'spretty good. But he's like you've got
(11:11):
down the weekend. Now it's hilarious, because yeah, it just looks like
you could just kind of walk aroundand see like all these groups of kids
dancing and all different ages, andit's fun. But you can actually see
people. I don't think people knowthis. When you walk around there,
you can actually see Notre Dame inthe distance. We didn't know that perspective.
And then you go around the otherside where the bridge is the Simone
(11:31):
de Beauvoir Passarel that goes to BercyPark, and from there you can see
like just before you get on it, you can see Sacred cur So it's
like you see these central Parisian monumentsfrom this really bizarre modern part of the
city. I always find that surprising. But then you get the Chinatown neighborhood,
which is obviously well known and it'squite big as well. And then
below that you have the areas alongI guess the peif which some of them
(11:54):
I guess, like the least expensivepart of tow of the thirteenth is along
there, but are mostly social housing. Okay, so yeah, they would
never be really open to most normalrenters anyway. But then I mean you've
got the whole part, Like aroundGoblin, you've got the there's like lovely
parks that are sort of hidden,there's the square Renee Lagal behind there,
(12:15):
and then you go towards Glacier,you've got all these cute, these cute
little I mean, they're really hidden. You have to kind of find them,
but you can feel like these You'llgo down these like little cobblestoned streets
and these little houses with little tinygardens that you see cuts houses. You
see them in the twentieth as well, but they're also hidden in the thirteenth.
But again, I think you reallyhave to look between all of these
kind of weird skyscrapers that are allover to find I hate these the word
(12:39):
to find the hidden gems. Butwhen I was over the years, when
I started running. I really,I really discovered the neighborhood when I started
running, because I needed to findnew things to look at because I get
bored easily. And then during COVID, you know, we were trapped with
one kilometer, so I just keptfinding all these new things. And you
know along the river we've got allthe boat the Penichas, so the Batto
(13:01):
far I think they called something elsenow. And then when I was a
student, I used to go tothe used to be called the Ganget Pierrat.
Now it's now it's the damn duCanton. Oh, I don't know
the new name. I only rememberthe old name. Yeah. Yeah,
So I mean there's there's there's justlots of like different parts of the thirteenth
so you can sort of figure outwhich area you like and just stay there.
(13:24):
So you can stay in a partthat's all cute and old, where
you can go to a part that'snew and modern. And again, like
once you've been in Paris for afew decades, sometimes seeing really modern stuff
is refreshing. And do you think, like for somebody that is maybe moving
to Paris hasn't lived here before,what have you do you think that they
(13:45):
would enjoy living in the thirteenth aroundyou, let's say, around on a
pied. I think it depends whatthey're expecting where to come from. I
mean, yeah, it's I actuallythink most people would like it because it
has that sort of mix of ofthe old and news. So it's not
a housing tends to be a littlebit more up to date. Yeah,
(14:05):
I can starts like you're not You'renot going to have like I don't think
there's any buildings in this neighborhood thatare from like the sixteen hundreds, just
because I'm pretty sure it was all, oh my gosh, like back even
like before World War One. Ithink like this neighborhood was one of the
last to be put on the gridfor Paris, and there's just not I
think it was much like almost likeshantytown back and back before it became part
(14:28):
of Paris. So so you don'thave like like when you go into the
deep end of the Moray and intocentral Monday Pray, you have like these
ancient buildings that are you know,they're medieval, full of character, not
fun to renovate around here that youhave a lot more kind of more because
like mine's considered really old, butit's you know, it's like it's nineteen
(14:48):
o two, I think, soit's not that old pre Paris standards.
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Mind will be right back after aword from our sponsors, and now back
to Paris A State of Mind.So you said that there were in your
particular area where you live, aroundyour neighborhood, there's a lot of families,
you get ran over by a strollersand so on, and yeah,
(15:31):
yeah, yeah, so yeah,there's there's lots of schools, there are
lots of playgrounds. Yeah, sois it more like a family oriented neighborhood
where you are? Um, you'vegot I mean, this university is right
next door too, and obviously becauseon stasione F can't forget that to be
oh yeah, startup incubator, whichis probably the closest thing we have to
(15:52):
hipsters in our neighborhood now, becausedefinitely not not a sort of obo free
zone. Somebody joke, No,I think it is. It is great
for families. It is slightly Isay slightly. You you obviously know this's
more affordable than other parts of Paris, But I just I think it's good
because it's a lot easier to findthe space. The sidewalks are a little
(16:14):
bit wider. Again, there's lotsof parks with like even if they're like
little parks, they're everywhere whereas Iknow certain when I lived on the Right
Bank and I had my dogs,it was so hard to find a place.
Well that you can take dogs intoparks, but most parks, but
it was so hard to find littleparks I think in the ninth when I
lived in the ninth it was likeno park. Yeah, you're also really
(16:36):
close to some really big parts here, Like you're right, we're right next
to the Jean Dennick plant and acrossthe bridge from Darcy Park and parkmul Sire
down at the bottom, so we'resort of like right in between all of
that. But I think it's Ithink it's pretty family friendly. But yeah,
that's a lot probably like the fourteenthand fifteenth as well, and a
lot of a lot of diversity withthe with the Chinatown and you also have
(16:59):
a lot of a large population fromAfrica as well in this neighborhood, and
we do have which you know,some people think of this as a plus,
other people might not. We haveone of the largest percentages of public
housing of any errand desement in Paris. Oh I didn't know that. Yeah.
The thirteenth is we're very silly dertehere. We are quite quite left
(17:21):
leaning politically in this neighborhood, sothat probably does automatically attract a lot of
maybe younger families, single even maybestudents. Yeah, there are a lot
of students with affordable housing. Thedownside with all the public housing is that,
I mean there's all especially the towers, and somebody asking how can you
tell which ones are which? Usuallypublic housing don't have balconies. Student housing
(17:47):
also do not have balconies, justwindows flat. I guess the big differences
with all these towers is that,you know, the neighborhood can gentrify all
at once, but those towers arenever going to go away. You know,
they're not going to tear down Olympiad, so it's never going It's not
like when you look at parts ofthe eighteenth or I'm sure that even the
fifteenth where people might not like theneighborhood, but the architecture has got good.
(18:11):
You know, it's like a goodwork. But so someday it'll it'll
gentrify. They're just waiting, waitingfor it to gentrify. But yeah,
here it's like you can't. Youcan't gentrify when I think something like twelve
percent of the housing is social housing. So yeah, it's but again,
it makes it. I think itkeeps it from and I again I say
(18:32):
this very gently, but like Iremember when I was a student, I
loved the Marae and I could shopin the Marae and all the students we
still have hanging out in the Moray. And now the Marae is way too
expensive. I don't think that'll everhappen to the thirteenth. It's it's just
not the kind of place you wouldsee a luxury shop open, right.
Yeah. And do you think thatthere's things that people should know before they
(18:55):
were to say, move into thearea, or things that you even wish
that you knew before you moved intothe area. Oh yeah, I knew
a lot about it, so Ithink I came in pretty open eyed.
I did not realize. Well,I didn't think that hard about it that,
but I knew the plastaly is likethe plastic la bestI. It's usually
either the beginning or the end ofMannifs on the left bank. You know,
(19:18):
you're right. And that's one thingthat I never mentioned to people when
I say, oh, yeah it'sSaturday, there must be a demonstration or
something, so avoid the hypb bleakin bestI. But yeah, that's detai
as well, because that's often theend. Yeah. My old apartment was
on the top floor. It wasact technically it was like behind the Mary,
so it was like taller than theMary, so I could I had
(19:41):
my window overlooked the plast and Iused to joke that I could have the
manif camp just set up in mywindow so that I could see when there
was a manif, which was,as you say, like pretty much every
weekend. But yeah, if youdon't like having your building, you know,
kind of covered in stickers for aday and a bunch of marching outside
with their flares. And when Ilived there, it hadn't gotten that bad
(20:03):
yet quote unquote breaking stuff and settingstuff on fire, so that was never
I don't remember being worried about that. But I mean obviously the whole like
within a block of PLASTICI all thestreets around at all the banks and all
the real estate agents put up youknow, wooden boards on their facades the
days that there are marches. Soso if that, you know, if
that freaks people out, maybe don'tlive on the Plastitli or along those big
(20:26):
boulevards. But otherwise, I meanagain like yeah, it's not there's not
a lot of kind of trendy placesexcept at the Bhuta Kai and right around
BiblioTech maybe there's like kind of morestudent y type of bars, but in
general, yeah, it's more ofa I guess it's Yeah, it's more
of like it's a nice place togo out, and all the shops are
(20:47):
like shops for you know, it'slike the hardware store and the store,
and like it's it's a it's avery convenient place I think to live.
So it's you don't have to likego out, you don't have to go
far to go shop, like tofind a shop. I don't have to
order everything on Amazon. All theregular stores are here, which yeah,
I think most people when you whenyou live right in the center of Parison.
(21:10):
I used to live by the waywhere right above where is now Leromerlan.
I lived in the lived in thecarcade orlage really a little tiktoking dragon
club. I didn't know that.Yeah, I lived there when I first
got married, and in a reallymodern building that I loved because I had
a garbage shoot. I thought thatwas so cool. But yeah, I
lived there and the li Romerlan hadn'topen yet, so when I lived there,
(21:33):
you still had to go to BHVSuso for like a hammer or oh.
I loved that. Yeah, backwhen it was amazed and impossible to
find anything. I know, Iknow, I know they changed it now.
I know it's so clean and easyto get around now. But yeah,
I kind of liked when it wasamazed and you had to go in
circles to try to find something.But there's there's so many fun like things
(21:56):
that I think the good surprise here, Like there's again like it is very
much like a let's help people,like help the community, a very silly
dairy taste. So like we havefood markets here, there's one, like
usually I have to go like ablock or two to find a food market
on any given day, and there'sone my square. But they have a
lot of places like they have likea solidarity food truck where you pay what
(22:17):
you want and you can pay extra, so that's have to pay anything.
And all the food that's really niceit is, and all the food is
made from donated ingredients from restaurants andsupermarkets in the neighborhood, and the people
who cook are also volunteers. Andthen there's like a place and I'm going
to blank on what it's called.I think it's called the Petite contin where
(22:37):
it's just like a place you cango and you can either just join for
people for lunch or dinner, oryou can join in and help cook the
meal and then stay for lunch anddinners. It's just like a way that
like people don't have to eat bythemselves. That's nice. Yeah, So
there's a lot of things like that, which again like they're not really it's
not really for tourists, I say, air quotes, but it's nice if
(22:59):
you want to feel like there's acommunity that you can join. There's definitely
tons of stuff to join if you'rea jointment, if you want to be
left alone and not want to talkto your neighbors, but maybe this isn't
the place, and is there anythingelse you'd like to add about the area.
We've got great street art, sureeverybody's heard that we got yes,
and they are awesome because all thosehorrible high rise towers. The mayor decided
(23:22):
to invite all these famous street artistsfrom all over the world, Like Shepherd
Ferry didn't one right down the streetfor me to come and do these massive
murals on the sides of these buildings. So it's fun. Although the neighborhood
is so spread out, I recommendif you do come to see them,
maybe come on a bicycle, butyou can take Line six like through these
towers and you'll see a bunch ofthem from the metro. Oh yeah,
that's true. That's true. Well, thank you very much. I think
(23:45):
that gives everyone a very good overviewof the thirteenth, a very There are
some Ameraldi smalls in Paris that arelesser known, and I think the thirteenth
is one of them, which ispart of the reason why I'm glad that
you came on the show, becauseit might open people's eyes, even people
who are living here who might wantto move, but not too many people,
(24:08):
because Heather will like want her thirteenthto say the same. Yeah,
not too many, although yes,like I think I just told you last
week there was an apartment above me. That was because the fan. The
couple have another kid, so they'removing closer to the grandparents, but they
want to keep it. So Iwanted somebody I know upstairs though strangers.
(24:29):
But yeah, they filled it up, but learn it And so I might
already know the answer to this,but I ask everyone this question. If
you could be money is no object, nothing is. It's your magic dream
apartment. You could be anywhere youwant in the city, and you could
have any apartment you want, anytype of apartment. Where would it be
(24:52):
in? What type of apartment?Oh, this is a horrible thing to
say after saying so many nice thingsabout the thirteenth, But I would.
I would in a second. I'dlive at Pale Royale in the gardens.
Oh wow, that would be nice. Yeah. I think it's great because
you're like right on the one inthe seven Yeah, really close to the
four team line, and you're rightin the middle. But it seems like
it's quiet at night, So yeah, I feel like that would be perfect.
(25:15):
I saw one apartment for rent once, like a like a one bedroom
apartment there, and it was likefive thousand a month. When I win
the lottery, i'll be looking therea gale. Yeah, that's out of
my budget. There you go.I did actually once, as as you
said, I saw an apartment.It was a one bedroom apartment for potential
property management and things and for longterm as well too. And I know
(25:41):
exactly what you're saying because it wasup on a higher floor. The views
were amazing and it just, Idon't know, you kind of felt like
a king or a queen up there, I think. So. Yeah,
very advious of all the people thatlive there, yas. Yeah, well,
thank you very much. And beforewe go, I would like you
to just let everyone know how theycan find you, and Secrets of Paris
(26:04):
as well too. Yeah. WellI'm at Secrets of Paris dot com and
I'm on Instagram, I think alsounder Secrets of Paris, and I do
talk about the Thirteenth a lot aseasiest. Yeah, so if you're curious
about the Thirteenth, Yeah, youcan follow me and follow you, Yes,
adding new stuff about my neighborhood onthere. Well, what I'll do
(26:26):
is I'll put your website and yourInstagram handle in the show notes so people
can reach out and say, Hi, Heather, we love the thirteenth,
or are you crazy? Or maybemaybe your fairy godmother will hear it and
say I have an apartment for youat Yale. I'll swap yeah, just
(26:47):
where terms out? You know?Well, Thank you very much, a
pleasure as always, Heather, It'sbeen fun. Thanks, have a good
day. Thanks for listening to ParisA State of Mind featuring Gale of Perfectly
Paris and Marie of Lokim, bothwho are founding members of the SPLM.
Paris the State of Mind is producedby Paris Underground Radio, the Music Jazz
(27:14):
and Paris Is by Mediawrite Productions.For more information on this show and others,
go to Paris Underground Radio dot com. This episode of Paris the State
of Mind was produced by Jennifer Garrityfor Paris Underground Radio. For more great
content, join us on Patreon atPatreon dot com slash Paris Underground Radio
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