August 19, 2025 • 55 mins
Dr. Laurie discusses "Baby Making vs. Making Love" with Dr. Arielle Buch-Frohlich, PsyD, Clinical Psycologist and Sex Therapist specializing in post partum sexuality. You'll also hear answers to listener submitted questions, and get Dr. Laurie's take on "Sex in the News".
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Passion with doctor Lori Battito and John Paul.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
On this edition of the podcast. And I love this
topic baby making versus love making and good golly, miss Molly,
Doctor Lorie. There is a difference because as a man
with three children, baby making felt like I was in
full work mode. Was I was getting called in for duty? Right,
(00:27):
love making? Love making is more my style. I'm a romantic.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I think people who have struggled, or who are not
not even struggled right, who just desperately want to get pregnant,
or they're at a stage in their life when this
is where they're heading and they really want it.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's almost like you get pregnant.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
When you don't want it, but when you really really
want it, you have to make.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
A point of it.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
So it's like, okay, we're on the clock, like I'm ovulating,
you know, like get home of course, you know. And
couples don't want I don't want to minimize, of course,
the struggles that a lot of couples have, and we
will be talking about that because the people who go
through who are challenged like with infertility and who it's
(01:14):
a devastating and really difficult, really difficult on the couple. Uh,
And that's something that we're definitely going to talk about,
and you know, how to get back to love making
after the baby baby making phase and how to try
and keep some of the romance while you're you know,
(01:35):
baby making or going through a lot of stuff. And
we will be talking with doctor Ariel about also the
impact of like miscarriage and all of the stuff that
you know, you don't think about until you're in that situation.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
To tell you the truth, let me ask.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You this question because you're a little bit older than
I am, and as I think back in my life,
I don't know if it's just the stages in age
you go through, but it seems to me that couple
struggle more with baby making today than maybe thirty or
(02:13):
forty years ago. But the problem thirty forty years ago
is I was not in that conversation. That wouldn't have
been part of my Is that a true thing or
is it always kind of been about the same.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Well, let's look at biologically, so back in not even
like generations before me, not even myself, but let's say
even my generation, we were getting married later, right, So
when women were getting married in their early twenties, they
had not that infertility didn't exist back then, but they
(02:46):
had a bigger window for baby making and maybe not
as much pressure. So if you average age for getting
married is around twenty nine, thirty older for men now,
So we're now starting to see, obviously, people who are
having a harder time getting pregnant, because as you get
past the age of twenty five, it just keeps getting
(03:06):
exponentially harder to be able to conceive. So that's I
think that's the problem. You know, did we I mean, listen,
test to baby. The first test too, baby was years
and years ago, so it's not like it never existed,
you know, of course it always existed, But I think
(03:26):
we're seeing more because people are getting pregnant much later.
You see so many women getting choosing to have a
family in their late thirties early forties now, which was
unheard of before you were grandma at forty, you know,
decades ago.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So that's the difference.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well, and I think I think you nailed it also,
Like I think of my life when we had our
first when we were thirty, yeah, and in my lifespan
at thirty, I went to school, like high school with
girls that probably were sixteen or seventeen when they had
a child in school or whatever. And when I think
(04:08):
of that fifteenish fourteen year span in between, like, that's
a huge gap when you think that in previous generations
that sixteen would have been much closer to the age
someone would have a child versus today. It's way further
away from the time someone would have a child today.
(04:30):
And I always add this in that as someone who
had a child at thirty, I often look back and
I go, oh, remember that girl in high school or
the boy and girl in high school or whatever. I'd
be like, you know what, actually probably didn't work out
that bad for them because they had the energy to
deal with these little rug rats back then, and at thirty,
(04:51):
I don't have as much as I used to.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
You know what, when you really want children, whether you're
thirty or forty or fifty, you're right, the energy level
goes down, but the motivation is there, so you put
in it doesn't matter if you're tired, You're going to
do it anyway. So it's not you know, it's more
about having a more settled life by the time you
have children, Whereas when you have your children at twenty one,
(05:14):
or twenty two you don't have a career yet you don't.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Have oh right, so and there's a more stress.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
A twenty two year old guy is also just you know,
wanting to provide for his family, and like it's more
of a you could see the struggle. But then you know,
people will say it was a much simpler time. I
was like, make babies, and you know that was it. Well,
we have far more expectations of people today, of women today.
(05:44):
Women have babies and have careers. So you know, it's listen,
times of changing. This is I think a reflection of
some of it. You know, not all of it, but
certainly some of it.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Do you think that there was and you could see
it on TV and movies and in books that as
women were getting older, they felt that outside pressure from
friends and families saying, oh, are you gonna have a baby,
When you're gonna have a baby, When you're gonna have
a baby. I think of my sort of circle of
(06:19):
friends and whatnot. Now I don't hear that question as much.
Do you think that question is sort of relaxed a
little bit as society has realized that couples aren't rushing
into it as they once did or do you think
it's still there? And maybe it's just I'm not in
those conversations or around grandma's and moms or dads or
(06:41):
whoever's putting pressure on couples.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Well, two things are happening. I think one, people are
recognizing that people deal with infertility, and it's not a
cool question to ask because you don't know who you're asking, right, Like,
you don't know if it's not gonna happen for them
or they're struggling with it, or they've had miscarriage. People
don't announce it. So that's number one. The the certainly
(07:05):
the sensitivity of it. And I forget what number two was,
but there's my aging brain brain. Yeah, like just I
don't know if the pressure you Oh, and the other
thing is is that there's a lot of people who
choose not to have children today, far more than ever,
(07:27):
So that is true.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
What about that?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
You know?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Like, why pressure when people are making the choice not
to have children? And more and more young people that
I talk to are not interested in having children. So
you could put your own spin on it and tell
me what there are selfish, I think No, I don't.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I don't think that's it.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
You know, I don't think it's about selfishness, and I
don't I just think people a lot of people have
grown up and really screwed up family sometimes and they
don't and they just don't want They just don't want
to take the chance, I guess, or they don't have
a lot of positivity around that, and that's it. So
there's many reasons.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, I think it's also and this is going to
sound like I'm slagging the younger generation, but I really
am not meaning it that way. Is I think they
are a lot more I don't know if lazy is
the right word. It's they're more casual in life, like
they my generation as Gen X, was all about go out,
(08:31):
work hard, grind your fifty hours a week, get your promotion,
get to the next level. And I see kids today
where they're not in a rush to be in charge,
they're not in a rush to get a driver's license.
They're just more lazy, fair on many things. So I
can see how maybe whether it's a maturity level, like
(08:52):
maybe an eighteen year old is more like a fourteen
year old in our world. Like I don't know if
it's that, but I just think they're more lazy fare
on so many things in what they do that it's
natural that when it comes to talking about kids and stuff,
they're like, that's not really for me right.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Now, I'm not ready.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I'm not and there maybe it takes them a lot
longer to be I hear that from men mostly women
have a biological clock, so really like by the time
they hit thirty five, it's do or die, you know,
like they're thinking, yeah, I'm either going to do it
or I'm not going to do it, And men are like, eh,
what you know, I'm not ready yet, but yeah, they
have to. And I always tell them, all you better
(09:30):
choose a part if you ever want to be ready.
By the time you're ready, are gonna have to choose
a younger partner, you know, relative much younger partner if
you want to make sure you have children.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
So anyway, yeah, maybe it's like they're not as committed
to commitment on everything like relationships and jobs. And like
the amount of young people I see that you know,
will go to university or college for whatever vocation they want.
Then they'll get a job in that vocation. But like
(10:00):
after six or eight months where it gets hard, there's
a you know, they're getting feedback, they don't like the
job's getting more difficult, there's pressure on them to perform.
They have no problem at all, just going I'm out
like it doesn't bother them, like whereas me I would
be like, no, I got a power through I gotta
(10:21):
And I'm not saying they're even wrong.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Listen, it's a different.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Bottom line is we evolve, we change, We society changes,
expectations change, Like that's just all it all plays into it,
you know.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Anyway, we're gonna hear from doctor Ariel Bush Frolick, and
she's a specialist. She's a psychologist that specializes in helping
couples navigate all of this. I think it'll be some
really good insights into how to get through some of
these challenges and the impact on couples, etc.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So I think you'll enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
We will chat about that in a bit of course.
Our commun he continues to grow on Instagram and we
would love for you to go over there and click
on our button and join us.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Absolutely passion with doctor Lori and John and yes, join
our community for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Quickly. Sex in the news some headlines worthy of discussion.
Six ways social media undermines sex. There's only six.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
There's only six. Well so, doctor Marty Klein, who's a
very very well.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Known psychologist slash sex therapist, puts out a blog every
month or so. And this was the last one that
I saw and I loved it. I loved it, and
I want to read it to you and try and
shorten it a bit. But it's important because how many
of us are on social media? How much information do
(11:51):
we consume? And he says, you know, with the enormous
amount of information that's available, he says, like everyone should
be able to have and create a.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Great sex life.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
However, he says, the number of people who are sexually frustrated, disappointed, confused, anxious,
or clueless hasn't declined even with all this information. In fact,
young people today have less sex than young people did ten, twenty,
or even thirty years ago, which you know, you're talking
(12:25):
about a generational thing. Well, here's another another trend. So
why is this happening? That's what he's looking at the
you know, the difference in all those years, and he's
boiling it down too. Well, there's now social media. Eighty
seven percent of Americans use social media daily. That's more
(12:48):
than the number of Americans who drive a car daily.
So he he went ahead and said, oh right, well,
how does social media undermine sexual pleasure and clothes?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
So Number one, he says, the loss of human cues
during communication. Every minute communicating digitally is a minute not
spent hearing the actual voice of another person, with all
its subtle moment by moment changes and reactions to what
you say or do. It's a minute spent not conveying
(13:22):
emotion with your own voice. And it's a minute spent
not talking with someone face to face, unconsciously smelling them
and perceiving their body language in a whether it be
a restaurant, a car, office, kitchen, bedroom. To create sex
that's relaxed and intimate, people need a wide range of
subtle communication skills. What words make someone's face light up,
(13:45):
what tone of voice brings someone closer, and what pushes
them away.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Most of us used to start learning these skills in
childhood and young adulthood, But texting friends or posting photos
of your lunch teaches you very little about out how
to relate to actual humans, especially regarding sex and bodies.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Is that interesting?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Number two, he says, research with a question mark. Many
people think they're doing research about sexual issues by going
to non experts websites, But social media has democratized opinion,
not expertise. If someone has fifty thousand followers or is he,
says police, an influencer, does this qualify them to have
(14:33):
an opinion on, say, hormone replacement therapy, on the mental
health of transgender people, or whether someone should stay or
leave a relationship after infidelity. No, but people are now
depending on these completely unvetted and unreliable sources, not ours,
by the way, in a wide range of sexual settings,
making decisions about what's normal, making medical choices about reproductive, hormonal,
(14:58):
and psychological issues, choosing how to respond to sexual situations
involving conflict, anger management, power dynamics, gender politics, and reasonable
relationship expectations. Depending on ignorant strangers for advice on important
life issues is a recipe for disaster, and social media
is built to convince people to value the opinions and
(15:20):
displays of others. Number three says the fad machine fueled
by social media. Fads have overtaken many aspects of sexuality,
where pleasure isn't as much the point of sex as
it used to be men are choking women during sex,
people say they're into kink or polly without knowing much
about them and then dealing with the predictable problems. People
(15:42):
are adapting idiosyncratic sexual identities demisexual, asexual, gray, sexual, etc.
That have no actual definition. People now say they identify
as this or that, much as people say I'm a
Dodgers fan or a I root for any team playing
against Notre Dame. And yes, pornography has something to do
(16:02):
with this fad orientation too. Some people may argue this point,
by the way, but nonetheless, he's an older guy, okay,
from my generation, and this is how he sees it,
and he's been in the field a very long time.
Number four, he says the velocity of narratives on social
media lies in false narratives spread faster and wider than
at any other time in history. False truths such as
(16:25):
how frequently trans kids kill themselves, or how common campus
rape is, or how many women climax from intercourse, or
how infidelity is always traumatic for the quote victim, especially
if it's a man cheating on a woman, or how
every woman wants to be choked during sex or almost
impossible to get out of the culture's consciousness. Once established
by social media. Every one of us needs hundreds of assumptions,
(16:48):
big and small to get through a typical day. That's
especially true regarding sex, which for most people involve some
anxiety and self consciousness. The sexual narratives spewing from social media,
whether from our friends or non expert influencers, have a
huge impact on our sexual choices and subjective experience. Again,
(17:12):
he talks about So this is doctor Marty Klein who
talks about the ways social media undermines sex. He talks
about the rage machine. Social media is especially adept at
fomenting anger and creating profound enmity out of simple disagreements.
Today people are urged to be offended instead of disagreeing,
(17:35):
and once offended, to destroy their opponents rather.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Than debate them.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
He says it's hard to relax and enjoy sex and
impossible to have collaborative disagreements when trust looks like a
foolish mistake. Then he talks about dating apps. Do you
know anyone who says I love dating apps. They've improved
my sex life much. No, people typically say I hate
(18:04):
being dependent on dating apps, But what else are you
going to do? People are now looking for algorithms when
they date. My patients are trying to figure out how
to have successful first dates rather than creating dates that
they enjoy. Does this mean you can't have good sex
if you're on social media? Does this mean you have
to quit social media to have good sex? The answer
(18:26):
to both questions is no. But anyone who wants to
do both enjoy sex and social media should understand how
social media participation and dependence undermines sexuality. So if you
want to read more, and I love what he writes,
he's just a no nonsense tells it like it is,
(18:46):
and you may agree with him or disagree with them.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
He doesn't care.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
He just puts it out there. That's what I love
about him, Doctor Marty Klein. It's sex and culture anyway.
His blog, it's fantastic. So there you have it.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I think he nailed a lot of those from where
I see.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I know. That's why I like. When I saw it,
I said, oh no, I need to share this with
our listeners because it's just brilliant.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, and it's crazy because a lot of those things,
if you took the word sex out and replaced it
with life, Yeah, they're true, not only in the bedroom.
We do have some questions that have been submitted at
doctor Lori dot com or through direct messaging on our socials.
We're going to get those questions answered in a moment.
(19:32):
But first, baby making versus love making.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
We are joined by doctor Ariel Bush Frolick. She is
a clinical psychologist.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
She's a sex therapist specializing in postpartum sexuality, something we
don't talk that much about, but very very important because
lots of couples, even couples that have not been together
for that long, are experiencing some sexual difficulties. And so
one of the things I wanted to we can focus
(20:01):
on is fertility the impact on relationships. Also, I know
what it is to be in that procreative state of life.
In other words, we want to make a baby. We're
having trouble making a baby now. Oh I'm ovulating, Get
it up, Get it up. You know, we got to
do it, and so it just becomes like chore like
(20:26):
and takes kind of the fun away. So we certainly
need to address some of that. So welcome to the program,
and let's talk about first the difficulty with getting pregnant.
Couples who struggle with that and the impact on couples
and on their sex life.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Yeah. So you know, I think a lot more couples
struggle with fertility than we even know because it's something
that most people don't even talk about, right.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
And.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
You know, couples can navigate this anywhere from one month
and even the first month. That's hard if we don't
necessarily know how to make a baby, right, No one's
really taught us how do we make a baby?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
We stick one part into another part saying correct.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
You're like, oh, it's so simple, but it's actually not
quite the opposite. Actually, you know, for most of people's
lives up until their mid twenties to thirties, they've actually
been trained the opposite way.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
They're like, do not make all cause that's right, you know,
especially for I think for the women in terms of
biologically that's where we're at. You have to learn your body, right,
And so there's a lot that goes into how do
I know when i'm for how do I know when
I'm ovulating? What does that even mean? Right? And for
(21:48):
couples who are navigating it together, they might have no
idea what that means, or it means that the woman
is now taking charge right, And for a lot of couples,
that is switching the script right in terms of their
sexual script, and even maybe they're life script in terms
(22:08):
of maybe before they were kind of equal partners in this,
or they were both navigating it together, but you know,
not in a huge concerted way, Whereas now we've switched
to okay, Well, the woman is in charge of her body, right,
she knows when she's opulating. She's usually the one who's saying, okay, it's.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Time time, like come home from work now, exactly right.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Whereas you know, I don't want to sound sexist. I
don't want to sound like I'm making gender roles, not
at all, but you know, I think for a lot
of couples, usually the sex script goes that the guy
initiates right, or we know around when it's going to happen.
Maybe the guy makes the first move, maybe we're waiting
for him to do so. Whereas now suddenly we're the
(22:57):
ones making the first move in terms of saying, okay,
it's go time, right, and there's a lot of pressure
on that. So that's where things might get rocky.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Right for then I've asked the couples exactly and I've
heard it from the men too, who feel the pressure
to stand up, you know, stand up on command.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Right, It's not always so easy.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
And then some of them are like, oh, I'm enjoying this,
you taking charge in us having sex like you know,
twice in a week for example, or what have you.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
But it doesn't last in this like there's an underlying
like you're just doing this.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
To make a baby book then what you know, does
this exactly exactly?
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I think there's a lot of that going on, right
because especially for couples where it was the guy's role
to initiate sex, and where sometimes she wants and sometimes
she doesn't want, which is totally fair, right, But suddenly
now she's saying we have to, not just that I
want to, but we have to, right again, that's changing
(24:05):
the dynamic completely, right. And then is it because you
want to have sex with me because you love me,
or is it because you really want that baby? And
you know, for a lot of couples, that's a really
hard line to navigate.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
And how and to navigate also the disappointment month after month,
you know, so we do it, we wait, I'm not pregnant,
and then how so sometimes it's the woman.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Whose hard is hit by that.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Sometimes both like how do they How should couples navigate that?
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Yeah, it's hard to navigate it? And you know what,
that's the bulk of what my work entails, right, because
too often we think it's only the woman who's experiencing
the hardships of this, right, right, when I want to
actually say that both of them, both of you are
insigma hardships, maybe in different ways. And I think for
(25:04):
a lot of couples they're not talking about it, right,
So that's where support is really necessary, right to talk
about the ins and outs of what can happen with
your sex life, what can happen with baby making life? Right?
What can happen emotionally too? Right, because this does take
(25:25):
a huge emotional toll. Yes, some people are lucky and
it happens right away, but for those who are not
as lucky or not as fortunate, right, it can take
anywhere from months to years of going through this cycle
of ups and downs. You know, some may face miscarriages,
some may face loss along the way, or just bad
(25:47):
news in general. Right, And you know, and we're just
talking about what happens. I like to say, quote unquote
in the wild, as in outside of the or in
terms of those who you know are doing it with
old fashioned sex, right versus those who are going through
(26:09):
treatments right, right, And that's a whole different thing altogether,
Right in terms of if you're injecting hormones, if you're
on timed intercourse, that is told to you by the doctors,
So it's not even one of you who has control anymore.
It's the doctors who are now in control, or anything
(26:30):
in between. Right. There's a lot of things that can happen,
and a lot of places where couples can get lost.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I know that in speaking to couples who are going
through especially like you say, the laboratory type of you know, sexuality,
it can be the most frustrating, disappointing, devastating, and how
(27:00):
one copes.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
With all of this impacts the couple.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Some people retreat, some people don't want to talk about it.
Some people need a hell of a lot of support.
I've heard some women complain that their partner hasn't been
there and doesn't understand. And one of the things I
want to talk about is miscarriage, because that is also
something that is common, you know, more common than we
(27:27):
probably think. And I think a lot of women miscarry
without even knowing they miscarry, but sometimes it can be
quite dramatic. She goes through it her body, but he
goes through it in terms of the grief and what
have you. So how do you see couples kind of
managing that?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
What do you usually see?
Speaker 4 (27:48):
Yeah, one hundred percent to everything you just said, Laurie,
in terms of you know, there's a lot of downs,
but there are ups too, And I want to say
that first while my number one thing is always talking
about hope, right as in to keep hope alive and
to keep focusing on the positives not only the negatives
(28:13):
in terms of trying to stay upbeat and trying to
you know, imagine your future and imagine your life once
you're past this. And I know that this takes up
a lot of you know, energy and a huge chunk
of time and it feels like you're stuck in that
moment in the trenches, really, but you will get out right,
(28:37):
and you will have hope, and you will have hopefully
your baby, and even if not, you will have a
life for yourself outside of this too. Right, And for
a lot of couples it's important to hold on to
that help, right.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Because it's hard to see when you're in there, and
if you've had multiple miscarriages and thinking beyond that, thinking
beyond the what you're trying to do right now, Right,
So when couples are in that baby making phase, they
are not thinking aside from we need to get this done.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
We need to do this, this is our number one goal.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Right, So thinking about life without doesn't even compute.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
And I hear that, and I think something else important
to say is, yes, we need you to focus on
making a baby. You know that it takes a lot
of effort, a lot of time, a lot of money,
a lot of everything. Right, But it's important to take
breaks too, right, And it is important to focus on
(29:44):
the good in your life and other things right, to
focus on your friends, to focus on the good strengths
and your couple. Right, to focus on sexuality outside of
baby making, whatever that might look like, right, as in
that might look like penetration, it might not, right, But
intimacy as in physical touching and kissing and emotional intimacy
(30:11):
of asking how are you doing? And can I support you?
And can you support me? And having fun?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right, that's important. That habit is important because the baby
making versus the love making would be the chore versus
the fun. Can feel good to make a baby.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Let's be real, like, maybe the act itself can still
feel good, but it's not driven by pleasure or or
even intimacy at that point.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
It's driven mechanically.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
So I'm gonna contest that for a little bit because
because actually, I don't know if you know this or
if a lot of people know this, but when the
woman is ovulating, she often feels extra sexy, right horn,
ye oh, yeah, right, So there could be some enjoyment
and that there could be a lot more warmth, there
(31:02):
could be feeling a lot more wet, right, and feeling
like your libido is really high up there, especially if
you've been on the pill before and you're coming off
of hormones, et cetera. Now you're finally kind of breathing right, right,
Ovulation for a lot of women can be a lot
of fun, right, And there can be a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
That can be Listen, I'm the first to say, if
you know, having struggled a little bit, and yes, it
was fun to do the the of course it was.
It was fun to do it. That the not fun
part is the timing and the pressure and the we
have to and you better get home and I'm ovulating
(31:43):
right now, and it's all of that stress. But you know, thankfully.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Well, And I think maybe also talking about to couples,
how do we do it in a gentler way, right
in terms of it might not have to be a
demand of come home right now and take your pants
off right for some people. But maybe I was gonna say,
maybe that's for a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
But just that it's just that if you've done it,
you know, twenty times in that right, in that respect,
maybe not so much fun right on?
Speaker 4 (32:16):
And you know, yes, I think to make a baby,
you are having sex multiple times in that window, right, Like,
it's not just once. It's usually over a few days exactly.
And yes, I can hear that it can get tiring
after a while, right, But that's why I go back
to injecting fun and making sure that you're taking breaks,
take a vacation, take a month off from trying, right,
(32:40):
explore your other hobbies whatever they might be, you know, painting, art, dance, exercise,
you know, making sure exercise is in line with your
fertility regimen. But making sure you're still seeing your friends,
you're still seeing your family, that you're still getting support,
and that it's not just tunnel vision of I need
(33:02):
to make a baby. We know you need to make
a baby, right, we know how much you desperately want this.
I was there, I fully understood it, and if you
had told me any of these things, I would have
been like, no.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Thank you, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
So I do get it. But at the same time,
right coming out of it, I do realize how important
those things really are.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Right and yeah, and keeping that line of communication open.
And usually, you know, baby making is done early in
the relationship generally speaking, so you're still in somewhat of
a honeymoon phase of a relationship. But there are couples
who have been together a long time who then try
(33:47):
and then have trouble, and sometimes you know, they can
things come up, right, like resentments and old stuff that
just resurfaces and things like that. So I think couples
need to know that it's okay to get help to
navigate some of these cicated feelings, because these are things
(34:08):
you don't feel. Until you feel them right, you don't
know how you're going to respond. To this or how
you're going to feel about this, or how you're going
to experience that loss.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Until you go, you go through it, so you can't
anticipate it.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
So it's it's part of her percent knowing that it's
okay and everybody can respond differently, but it's okay to
get help together.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Yeah, and you know, going back to what you were
saying about bringing up sentments that kind of thing. You know,
I think it's really important for both partners to remember
that their partner is not the enemy, right, because I
think a lot of the time, I think it's because
we are so insular right as and we're stopping our activities,
(34:51):
we're stopping seeing our friends because unfortunately, there's still so
much shame surrounding talking about fertility, right, which is so
crazy to me, right age exactly, like we are starting
to open up the conversation. I can see it a
little bit, but I have to say, most of my
clients tell me they have not spoken to their family,
(35:13):
they have not spoken to their friends about this, so
really they are so insular at this point, right that
your partner becomes your punching bag for everything, right, Because yes,
there's so many emotions here on both sides, right, there
are good emotions, right, there's good days, and there's excitement,
(35:34):
and then there's devastating emotions, and there's anger, and there's frustration,
and there's there's a lot, right, And so just making
sure that while you're navigating this to have outside sources,
not that they're your enemy is not whatsoever, but outside
sources of support, right, so that you can turn to
(35:56):
someone and talk, right, and you can look at your
partner right without feeling like they're the bad guy because
they're not getting you or whatever the story is. How
do we start seeing both perspectives right, Because that's the
thing too, is not everyone reacts in the same way
at the same time, No, especially couples. Right. One might
(36:20):
be super angry, the other one might be super sad.
The other one might be you know, relieved or excited
for the next phase when the other one's not there yet.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, that's true. And I've seen that.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
I've seen, you know, the impact of miscarriage where sometimes
it's the guy who takes it really badly. I mean,
I know we're talking in heteronormative waysier for the sake
of simplicity, but yes, you see that. You know, sometimes
one person takes it worse than even the person experiencing it,
(36:53):
So there's no accounting for how right.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Yeah, well, because I think we need to remember that
it impacts the partner just as much. Right, whether that
partner is a guy or girl or whoever they are,
it impacts them too to see the loss, right and
for sometimes maybe even more so, because they're not in control.
Right as in the person experiencing loss. It's not like
(37:17):
you're in control, it's not about that. But it is
your body. You're experiencing a firsthand, so you understand to
a certain level what's happening, whereas your partner has no
control over whatsoever. Right, they have no idea how it's
being experienced. It's not their body, right. So yeah, and
(37:39):
it's hard to see your partner.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Struggling, absolutely right, really hard to And when you're it's
also hard to be there for your partner when you're
struggling too.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
So when the two are struggling.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
And you exactly and you handle things differently, one needs
one needs to connect, the other one needs to disconnect.
That's where it becomes really difficult to navigate. So get
outside help if necessary to get you back to connection.
One of the things I want to talk about is
(38:11):
another struggle in terms of baby making and love making,
is a woman's biological clock, because this comes up a lot,
but women are getting married or maybe not married but
having children later, or settling into long term relationships later.
Used to be, you know, by twenty five, you were
(38:32):
married and already starting to have kids, which is your
peak fertility years. But now women are starting, on average
having kids in their early thirties to mid thirties. So
there is a kind of a pressure like that guys
don't experience.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
And how do you First.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Of all, it's not just navigating this because it's a reality.
It's like there is a biological clock. You know, by
the time I'm forty going to have very little you know,
or way reduced chance of getting pregnant. But how do
you know the pressure on couples, the pressure on the
partner too. We got to get this stuff going because
(39:16):
there's a clock here and they don't like, you know,
maybe not like to feel pressured on the other end.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
So how do you how do you work with those couples?
Speaker 4 (39:24):
Yeah, well, we talk about what are your values and
how do you live life in line with your values
right as in, how do you want to construct a
life together? What is it going to look like? Right?
And sometimes it might be individual therapy in terms of
looking at well, who would you like your partner to be? Right,
(39:48):
in terms of maybe that's the partner that you've found,
maybe it isn't right because if that partner is saying,
I'm sorry, I don't want children right now, right, and
you're I need children right now, that might not be
the best fit right right. And that's something that we
have to accept in something that you know, we have
(40:10):
to work on in terms of welt are you willing
to wait or are you willing to do it on
your own? Or are you willing to find someone else? Right?
That's definitely a conversation that has to happen. There is
also you know, medical alcohol it interference in terms of
you can freeze your ex.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Right if process in and of itself also that you
have get it will.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
It is one hundred percent. It's a process, but it's
a it is a good safety net, right in terms
of if you are approaching your mid thirties to late thirties,
you haven't found someone right and you don't want to
put that pressure on in terms of putting the pressure
right away on your new, brand new relationship, right, then
(40:56):
that might be the best option for you, right, and
you can that, yeah, and then you can decide, Okay, yes,
I can wait for five more years or whatever it is,
or you know what, No, I want to do this
on my own. And a lot of people are doing
this on their own.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I know it's right. It's so many people are doing
this on their own.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Now.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I know so many women who have decided.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
I think that's beautiful, honestly, in terms of taking charge
of your fertility and taking charge of what you want
in life, right, And I think that's amazing. Right. But
for the couples who do want to have kids together, right,
and maybe they are new and maybe it's about okay, well,
how do we navigate this in terms of making sure
(41:38):
that this is the relationship we want, right and making
sure we're both on the same page right away of saying,
you know, yes, I want children, this is the timeline
I want children in right, and you know going from there.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Yeah, that your timeline matches. I think is also is
a good one.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
You know.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I don't think, especially in dating, I don't think men
want the pressure of dating. Let's say a thirty five
year old and feel like, oh my god, am I
going to get trapped in here because they're approaching their fertility.
Like I had this conversation with a young man and
that was exactly it, and he ended up developing performance
(42:21):
anxiety because he was always afraid the woman was going
to get pregnant.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
You know, it was scary for him.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Like a good talk on birth control, it's really necessary,
right in terms of yeah, in terms of talking and
making sure that you're both on the same page, right, Well,
but I actually want to say the reverse sometimes, right
of a lot of times now, you know, the women
are saying that they're not ready to have kids because
they're not at the point in their career where they
(42:50):
want to go get pregnant, right, or maybe they don't
even envision kids in their future. And that's perfect, that's okay, right, Okay,
that's sometimes it is coming from the partner of saying
I really want children, Right, I went into this expecting children,
especially because we're at a later age, right.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Should people having that conversation really early on then in
the dating stud So.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
You know, yes, first of all, I definitely encourage people
to start talking about you know, do you want children
not children with me? Right? Right? I think that's a
huge difference.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
That's a bit of a pressure on the first date.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Correct, Right, But yeah, around the third to fifth date,
you should be talking about what are your values in life? Right?
Is having a family something that you really treasure or
is that not important to you? Is that something that
you're open to but you're not ready to commit to you? Right?
That kind of talk that, yes, that's important. But I
will say people have the prerogative of changing their minds, right,
(43:52):
And it can come up let's say a year or
two years later, and you're going, well, I thought we
were in this to have a family together, And sometimes
one of the partners says, I'm sorry, but I can't, right,
And that's it's hard. It's hard for both of them. Right.
(44:12):
It's something that they will have to navigate at that
point in terms of saying, is it the children themselves?
In terms of wanting children versus not wanting children? Are
there other dynamics in the relationship that need to be
worked on first before they can even approach that conversation. Right.
There's a lot of ifs and a lot of what's
(44:33):
going on. But we need open mindedness, that we need
flexibility to be able to say that, yeah, someone can
change their mind and it might be devastating and it
might be heartbreaking, but it happens.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
But it's absolutely And nobody is putting a gun to
your head to have a kid, you know, And I think, no, No,
it's something you really feel you can't have if you
go ahead, or you feel trapped into it or what
have you. You grow to resent your partner, and this
is you know, making a child. This is a child,
(45:08):
right like you so long commitment and that's right, and
it needs love from both parents, and it needs stability
and everything that it needs. So I think going into
it with an very open and clear idea of what
you want and what you're looking for and being on
the same page really goes a long way for handling all.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Of these yeah, but potentially turbulent waters.
Speaker 4 (45:36):
Yeah, but also just talking things through right in terms
of being flexible and saying, you know, I hear what
you're saying. It's not about negating it, but it's about
negotiating it right. In terms of saying, is this the
end of the world, right, or is this something that
we can talk about that. We can come to different
agreements about that. Maybe maybe you're not ready tomorrow, but
(45:58):
maybe you're going to be ready into years from now, right,
And can I wait two years? Right? Or is this
something that we have to work on in terms of,
you know, coming to a new vision altogether of what
we want our life to look like, right right?
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Just to get there without If whatever choice you make,
you made the choice for yourself. Don't forget that you
made the choice for yourself. So blaming a partner I
should have, I shouldn't have, I whatever it is, is destructive.
So if you decide, okay, I'm going to go along
(46:36):
with the not having kids, and I'll go along with
the potential.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Maybe you'll be ready, but maybe you won't be.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Don't hang around on the maybe hoping that or that
you can change that person's mind, because you will grow
to resent that person. So I think making sure these
conversations happen is important and having those open conversations, Doctor Ariel,
and thank you enough for your expertise and continued good work.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
Well, thank you so much for having me today. This
is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
We'll do this again. Thank you all right, take care and.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
We head to the mailbag. Now questions from you, Doctor Lorie.
We're going to start with the first one. Hey, doctor Lorie,
my husband and I are in our late thirties and
we have two kids and careers. We still make time
for sex, but not quite at the same level we
did in the beginning of our relationship ten years ago. Recently,
I was in the shower and decided to get off,
(47:35):
and when I was pretty close to finishing, my husband
walked in the room. I think we were both surprised,
and I kind of said, sorry, be out in a minute,
but he stayed there. I was in the zone and
didn't really notice that he was attempting to be included,
and I reiterated, saying, yeah, I'll just be a minute, okay.
When I got out of the shower, he was bummed
out that I didn't include him in the first place,
(47:56):
but it was a spur of the moment thing. I
had an extra five minutes. Tried to explain that, but
I don't think he understood. How do I get him
to understand the difference between our alone time and our
share time and soothe his ego, which I think was bruised.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Being jealous of your wife's vibrator. Let's look.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah, look, I can speak for all men. You know,
something hot's going on, We're gonna want to be involved,
and I can see how egos would get bruised.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Okay, but I mean grow up.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Okay, Well I was just gonna say dot dot dot.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
But maturity, Yeah, exactly, Like maybe I think the husband
maybe misses her or maybe misses their intimate time to
get together, and maybe he just felt left out.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
But of course, and also between it's super hot to
walk in on that. If you know, you really love
your wife and she turns you on you, you know,
it's like you're walking in the scene on a movie.
You're like, oh my god, this is happening right now. Uh,
she's not in that same scene. She's like, hey, I'm
having a good time, leave me alone.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Well well, I mean, but there is a difference between
a quick masturbation session and a love making session with
a partner. Maybe turn the tables on him. See how
he feels when he masturbates. Does he ever just rub
one out quickly just to relieve stress or tension? You know,
I'm sure that if you get him to see it
that way, he's going to understand, like turn the tables,
(49:21):
you know, and you need to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
We know.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
I think women are way more mature in this because
I think every guy is going, hey, look if I'm
in the middle of a session and she walks in,
join in, well.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Or he might just be in the shower wants to
do it quickly and that's it, and he just wants
to relieve himself. I mean, look, he needs reassurance. Yeah,
and also like you know, just like when he masturbates,
it's not because he doesn't want to be with you.
It's not that one thing replaces another thing. It's an end.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
It's not an.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
Ore situation, right, it's just like okay, So I think
we just need to clarify.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
That's well, I guess, I guess. I mean she's saying
I can decode this a little bit. I think she's
been quite probably practical in everything she said here that
you know, their sex life isn't as frequent as it
once was. That's all pretty natural for husbands and wives
and kids and busy careers. I I feel pretty confident
(50:22):
that all men in their minds want it to always
be the same level, and they want to have it
as much as they possibly can. So I totally get
him going, oh man, this is kind of a cool opportunity.
Would have been fun. I can see him being bummed
out a bit. But again, yeah, they got to be
mature about it, and you know, again, sometimes you gotta
take one for the team. At the same time, hopefully
(50:44):
she goes, hey, I owe you one, and you know
we'll circle back tonight or tomorrow or Friday.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Or be happy she's interested, right, be happy that there's
like this.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Is can only fuel wanting. So I think it's a
good thing. Now, that's a good thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
What we don't know is maybe every night before they
go to bed, she's reading dirty smut novels and now
he's like, oh, the smut novels are getting my time.
Now the shower's getting my time. I'm sad.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Maybe maybe, I mean that's why I said. Maybe he
just feels left out or neglected. But this is why
you have to talk, right, communicate.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Next letter, Doctor Lourie. I'm twenty three years old and
I don't really get wet down there when I'm turned on.
It's definitely become an issue in my sex life and
my boyfriend's my boyfriend is weirded out by it. I
think I can really really be turned on and ready
for sex, but will be dry as a bone. I
used to have an eating disorder and that lasted for
a few years. I think it might have something to
(51:44):
do with it, because it messed up my body in
other ways too. Is there any way to fix this
a supplement or something I can change in my diet.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
So in this situation, she's given us quite a bit
of information, and there could be many reasons why a
person doesn't lubricate, and the most likely culprit is there
some kind of imbalance in the hormones, which might very
well be related to the eating disorder. I mean, she's
only twenty three years old, you know, or there's some
other medical condition.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
And this is why she needs.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Absolutely to talk to a gynecologist about this, because they
need to figure out do the hormone test, figure out
what is going on. Stress and anxiety can also interfere
with arousal and lubrication. So I don't know if she's
on any medication, but medications can also have an impact
on lubrication, like for example, I'm thinking of antihistamines, antidepressants,
(52:37):
even birth control can cause dryness as a side effect,
so talking to a medical health professional to get to
the root cause is important. But in the meantime, using
an external lubricant that she can apply to her vagina
and to his penis prior to intercourse is the best
course of action.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
And there's lots of those sorts of products that can
be part of the fun.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
Right, Oh my god, there's absolutely and and you know,
there's really good lubricants out there. I'm thinking of, Like
there's a company called Flora v. There's ky liquid, there's
get the most slippery stuff you can but that's uh,
that will make a huge difference.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yeah, Like you can make it part of the fun
and not even make it an issue because you're just
having a good time.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
It just should be a standard anyway. I believe lubricant
should just be u It should be on the bedside
table for everybody.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, just say doctor LORII told me to do it,
and right there you go. You're good to go. You
don't have to worry about anything else. That's what I
do and then I don't get in trouble. Coming up
on the next edition of Passion, we will be talking
about the impact of aging on men's sexuality.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
Yes, for all you old folks out there, no really
aging stuff. It's not you know, the the reality is
a man's ard to age sexually anywhere from thirty five onwards.
So and men will tell you they notice a difference.
So I want to just dispel a lot of myths
and look at expectations and coming from a source, not
(54:14):
the you know, not from as doctor Mardi client says,
you know, from from an influencer who doesn't have the background.
So we will talk about the real deal. And of course,
you know, you can always read my book in the
meantime and ask your questions. The sex Bible for people
over fifty, we certainly discuss all of that in there.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
Excellent. Some people to thank for this edition of Passion.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
Yes, I want to thank all our listeners for making
us well for you know, getting keeping downloading, and this
is kind of why we do it. We want to
spread spread some news, spread some good information is really
our goal here. I want to thank Steven Voice who
contributes his original music to the podcast, So thank you
(54:59):
for that, and John, thank you for being a part
of you know, my week life month, your friendship.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
I am happy to do it. And I will remind
you whatever platform you're listening to the podcast on, there
might be a way to like, comment, share, review, any
of that sort of stuff that you can do on
your device right now would be super helpful to the
podcast and we would appreciate it. Doctor Lori will chat
next time.
Speaker 3 (55:26):
We shall take good Care Passion with doctor Lori Botito
and John Paul.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
To submit questions, business inquiries, or just to connect, visit doctor.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Laurie dot com. Thank you for supporting Passion
This is Passion with doctor Lori Battito and John Paul.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
On this edition of the podcast. And I love this
topic baby making versus love making and good golly, miss Molly,
Doctor Lorie. There is a difference because as a man
with three children, baby making felt like I was in
full work mode. Was I was getting called in for duty? Right,
(00:27):
love making? Love making is more my style. I'm a romantic.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I think people who have struggled, or who are not
not even struggled right, who just desperately want to get pregnant,
or they're at a stage in their life when this
is where they're heading and they really want it.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's almost like you get pregnant.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
When you don't want it, but when you really really
want it, you have to make.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
A point of it.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
So it's like, okay, we're on the clock, like I'm ovulating,
you know, like get home of course, you know. And
couples don't want I don't want to minimize, of course,
the struggles that a lot of couples have, and we
will be talking about that because the people who go
through who are challenged like with infertility and who it's
(01:14):
a devastating and really difficult, really difficult on the couple. Uh,
And that's something that we're definitely going to talk about,
and you know, how to get back to love making
after the baby baby making phase and how to try
and keep some of the romance while you're you know,
(01:35):
baby making or going through a lot of stuff. And
we will be talking with doctor Ariel about also the
impact of like miscarriage and all of the stuff that
you know, you don't think about until you're in that situation.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
To tell you the truth, let me ask.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You this question because you're a little bit older than
I am, and as I think back in my life,
I don't know if it's just the stages in age
you go through, but it seems to me that couple
struggle more with baby making today than maybe thirty or
(02:13):
forty years ago. But the problem thirty forty years ago
is I was not in that conversation. That wouldn't have
been part of my Is that a true thing or
is it always kind of been about the same.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Well, let's look at biologically, so back in not even
like generations before me, not even myself, but let's say
even my generation, we were getting married later, right, So
when women were getting married in their early twenties, they
had not that infertility didn't exist back then, but they
(02:46):
had a bigger window for baby making and maybe not
as much pressure. So if you average age for getting
married is around twenty nine, thirty older for men now,
So we're now starting to see, obviously, people who are
having a harder time getting pregnant, because as you get
past the age of twenty five, it just keeps getting
(03:06):
exponentially harder to be able to conceive. So that's I
think that's the problem. You know, did we I mean, listen,
test to baby. The first test too, baby was years
and years ago, so it's not like it never existed,
you know, of course it always existed, But I think
(03:26):
we're seeing more because people are getting pregnant much later.
You see so many women getting choosing to have a
family in their late thirties early forties now, which was
unheard of before you were grandma at forty, you know,
decades ago.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So that's the difference.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well, and I think I think you nailed it also,
Like I think of my life when we had our
first when we were thirty, yeah, and in my lifespan
at thirty, I went to school, like high school with
girls that probably were sixteen or seventeen when they had
a child in school or whatever. And when I think
(04:08):
of that fifteenish fourteen year span in between, like, that's
a huge gap when you think that in previous generations
that sixteen would have been much closer to the age
someone would have a child versus today. It's way further
away from the time someone would have a child today.
(04:30):
And I always add this in that as someone who
had a child at thirty, I often look back and
I go, oh, remember that girl in high school or
the boy and girl in high school or whatever. I'd
be like, you know what, actually probably didn't work out
that bad for them because they had the energy to
deal with these little rug rats back then, and at thirty,
(04:51):
I don't have as much as I used to.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
You know what, when you really want children, whether you're
thirty or forty or fifty, you're right, the energy level
goes down, but the motivation is there, so you put
in it doesn't matter if you're tired, You're going to
do it anyway. So it's not you know, it's more
about having a more settled life by the time you
have children, Whereas when you have your children at twenty one,
(05:14):
or twenty two you don't have a career yet you don't.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Have oh right, so and there's a more stress.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
A twenty two year old guy is also just you know,
wanting to provide for his family, and like it's more
of a you could see the struggle. But then you know,
people will say it was a much simpler time. I
was like, make babies, and you know that was it. Well,
we have far more expectations of people today, of women today.
(05:44):
Women have babies and have careers. So you know, it's listen,
times of changing. This is I think a reflection of
some of it. You know, not all of it, but
certainly some of it.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Do you think that there was and you could see
it on TV and movies and in books that as
women were getting older, they felt that outside pressure from
friends and families saying, oh, are you gonna have a baby,
When you're gonna have a baby, When you're gonna have
a baby. I think of my sort of circle of
(06:19):
friends and whatnot. Now I don't hear that question as much.
Do you think that question is sort of relaxed a
little bit as society has realized that couples aren't rushing
into it as they once did or do you think
it's still there? And maybe it's just I'm not in
those conversations or around grandma's and moms or dads or
(06:41):
whoever's putting pressure on couples.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Well, two things are happening. I think one, people are
recognizing that people deal with infertility, and it's not a
cool question to ask because you don't know who you're asking, right, Like,
you don't know if it's not gonna happen for them
or they're struggling with it, or they've had miscarriage. People
don't announce it. So that's number one. The the certainly
(07:05):
the sensitivity of it. And I forget what number two was,
but there's my aging brain brain. Yeah, like just I
don't know if the pressure you Oh, and the other
thing is is that there's a lot of people who
choose not to have children today, far more than ever,
(07:27):
So that is true.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
What about that?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
You know?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Like, why pressure when people are making the choice not
to have children? And more and more young people that
I talk to are not interested in having children. So
you could put your own spin on it and tell
me what there are selfish, I think No, I don't.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I don't think that's it.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
You know, I don't think it's about selfishness, and I
don't I just think people a lot of people have
grown up and really screwed up family sometimes and they
don't and they just don't want They just don't want
to take the chance, I guess, or they don't have
a lot of positivity around that, and that's it. So
there's many reasons.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, I think it's also and this is going to
sound like I'm slagging the younger generation, but I really
am not meaning it that way. Is I think they
are a lot more I don't know if lazy is
the right word. It's they're more casual in life, like
they my generation as Gen X, was all about go out,
(08:31):
work hard, grind your fifty hours a week, get your promotion,
get to the next level. And I see kids today
where they're not in a rush to be in charge,
they're not in a rush to get a driver's license.
They're just more lazy, fair on many things. So I
can see how maybe whether it's a maturity level, like
(08:52):
maybe an eighteen year old is more like a fourteen
year old in our world. Like I don't know if
it's that, but I just think they're more lazy fare
on so many things in what they do that it's
natural that when it comes to talking about kids and stuff,
they're like, that's not really for me right.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Now, I'm not ready.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I'm not and there maybe it takes them a lot
longer to be I hear that from men mostly women
have a biological clock, so really like by the time
they hit thirty five, it's do or die, you know,
like they're thinking, yeah, I'm either going to do it
or I'm not going to do it, And men are like, eh,
what you know, I'm not ready yet, but yeah, they
have to. And I always tell them, all you better
(09:30):
choose a part if you ever want to be ready.
By the time you're ready, are gonna have to choose
a younger partner, you know, relative much younger partner if
you want to make sure you have children.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
So anyway, yeah, maybe it's like they're not as committed
to commitment on everything like relationships and jobs. And like
the amount of young people I see that you know,
will go to university or college for whatever vocation they want.
Then they'll get a job in that vocation. But like
(10:00):
after six or eight months where it gets hard, there's
a you know, they're getting feedback, they don't like the
job's getting more difficult, there's pressure on them to perform.
They have no problem at all, just going I'm out
like it doesn't bother them, like whereas me I would
be like, no, I got a power through I gotta
(10:21):
And I'm not saying they're even wrong.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Listen, it's a different.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Bottom line is we evolve, we change, We society changes,
expectations change, Like that's just all it all plays into it,
you know.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Anyway, we're gonna hear from doctor Ariel Bush Frolick, and
she's a specialist. She's a psychologist that specializes in helping
couples navigate all of this. I think it'll be some
really good insights into how to get through some of
these challenges and the impact on couples, etc.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So I think you'll enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
We will chat about that in a bit of course.
Our commun he continues to grow on Instagram and we
would love for you to go over there and click
on our button and join us.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Absolutely passion with doctor Lori and John and yes, join
our community for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Quickly. Sex in the news some headlines worthy of discussion.
Six ways social media undermines sex. There's only six.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
There's only six. Well so, doctor Marty Klein, who's a
very very well.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Known psychologist slash sex therapist, puts out a blog every
month or so. And this was the last one that
I saw and I loved it. I loved it, and
I want to read it to you and try and
shorten it a bit. But it's important because how many
of us are on social media? How much information do
(11:51):
we consume? And he says, you know, with the enormous
amount of information that's available, he says, like everyone should
be able to have and create a.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Great sex life.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
However, he says, the number of people who are sexually frustrated, disappointed, confused, anxious,
or clueless hasn't declined even with all this information. In fact,
young people today have less sex than young people did ten, twenty,
or even thirty years ago, which you know, you're talking
(12:25):
about a generational thing. Well, here's another another trend. So
why is this happening? That's what he's looking at the
you know, the difference in all those years, and he's
boiling it down too. Well, there's now social media. Eighty
seven percent of Americans use social media daily. That's more
(12:48):
than the number of Americans who drive a car daily.
So he he went ahead and said, oh right, well,
how does social media undermine sexual pleasure and clothes?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
So Number one, he says, the loss of human cues
during communication. Every minute communicating digitally is a minute not
spent hearing the actual voice of another person, with all
its subtle moment by moment changes and reactions to what
you say or do. It's a minute spent not conveying
(13:22):
emotion with your own voice. And it's a minute spent
not talking with someone face to face, unconsciously smelling them
and perceiving their body language in a whether it be
a restaurant, a car, office, kitchen, bedroom. To create sex
that's relaxed and intimate, people need a wide range of
subtle communication skills. What words make someone's face light up,
(13:45):
what tone of voice brings someone closer, and what pushes
them away.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Most of us used to start learning these skills in
childhood and young adulthood, But texting friends or posting photos
of your lunch teaches you very little about out how
to relate to actual humans, especially regarding sex and bodies.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Is that interesting?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Number two, he says, research with a question mark. Many
people think they're doing research about sexual issues by going
to non experts websites, But social media has democratized opinion,
not expertise. If someone has fifty thousand followers or is he,
says police, an influencer, does this qualify them to have
(14:33):
an opinion on, say, hormone replacement therapy, on the mental
health of transgender people, or whether someone should stay or
leave a relationship after infidelity. No, but people are now
depending on these completely unvetted and unreliable sources, not ours,
by the way, in a wide range of sexual settings,
making decisions about what's normal, making medical choices about reproductive, hormonal,
(14:58):
and psychological issues, choosing how to respond to sexual situations
involving conflict, anger management, power dynamics, gender politics, and reasonable
relationship expectations. Depending on ignorant strangers for advice on important
life issues is a recipe for disaster, and social media
is built to convince people to value the opinions and
(15:20):
displays of others. Number three says the fad machine fueled
by social media. Fads have overtaken many aspects of sexuality,
where pleasure isn't as much the point of sex as
it used to be men are choking women during sex,
people say they're into kink or polly without knowing much
about them and then dealing with the predictable problems. People
(15:42):
are adapting idiosyncratic sexual identities demisexual, asexual, gray, sexual, etc.
That have no actual definition. People now say they identify
as this or that, much as people say I'm a
Dodgers fan or a I root for any team playing
against Notre Dame. And yes, pornography has something to do
(16:02):
with this fad orientation too. Some people may argue this point,
by the way, but nonetheless, he's an older guy, okay,
from my generation, and this is how he sees it,
and he's been in the field a very long time.
Number four, he says the velocity of narratives on social
media lies in false narratives spread faster and wider than
at any other time in history. False truths such as
(16:25):
how frequently trans kids kill themselves, or how common campus
rape is, or how many women climax from intercourse, or
how infidelity is always traumatic for the quote victim, especially
if it's a man cheating on a woman, or how
every woman wants to be choked during sex or almost
impossible to get out of the culture's consciousness. Once established
by social media. Every one of us needs hundreds of assumptions,
(16:48):
big and small to get through a typical day. That's
especially true regarding sex, which for most people involve some
anxiety and self consciousness. The sexual narratives spewing from social media,
whether from our friends or non expert influencers, have a
huge impact on our sexual choices and subjective experience. Again,
(17:12):
he talks about So this is doctor Marty Klein who
talks about the ways social media undermines sex. He talks
about the rage machine. Social media is especially adept at
fomenting anger and creating profound enmity out of simple disagreements.
Today people are urged to be offended instead of disagreeing,
(17:35):
and once offended, to destroy their opponents rather.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Than debate them.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
He says it's hard to relax and enjoy sex and
impossible to have collaborative disagreements when trust looks like a
foolish mistake. Then he talks about dating apps. Do you
know anyone who says I love dating apps. They've improved
my sex life much. No, people typically say I hate
(18:04):
being dependent on dating apps, But what else are you
going to do? People are now looking for algorithms when
they date. My patients are trying to figure out how
to have successful first dates rather than creating dates that
they enjoy. Does this mean you can't have good sex
if you're on social media? Does this mean you have
to quit social media to have good sex? The answer
(18:26):
to both questions is no. But anyone who wants to
do both enjoy sex and social media should understand how
social media participation and dependence undermines sexuality. So if you
want to read more, and I love what he writes,
he's just a no nonsense tells it like it is,
(18:46):
and you may agree with him or disagree with them.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
He doesn't care.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
He just puts it out there. That's what I love
about him, Doctor Marty Klein. It's sex and culture anyway.
His blog, it's fantastic. So there you have it.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I think he nailed a lot of those from where
I see.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I know. That's why I like. When I saw it,
I said, oh no, I need to share this with
our listeners because it's just brilliant.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, and it's crazy because a lot of those things,
if you took the word sex out and replaced it
with life, Yeah, they're true, not only in the bedroom.
We do have some questions that have been submitted at
doctor Lori dot com or through direct messaging on our socials.
We're going to get those questions answered in a moment.
(19:32):
But first, baby making versus love making.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
We are joined by doctor Ariel Bush Frolick. She is
a clinical psychologist.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
She's a sex therapist specializing in postpartum sexuality, something we
don't talk that much about, but very very important because
lots of couples, even couples that have not been together
for that long, are experiencing some sexual difficulties. And so
one of the things I wanted to we can focus
(20:01):
on is fertility the impact on relationships. Also, I know
what it is to be in that procreative state of life.
In other words, we want to make a baby. We're
having trouble making a baby now. Oh I'm ovulating, Get
it up, Get it up. You know, we got to
do it, and so it just becomes like chore like
(20:26):
and takes kind of the fun away. So we certainly
need to address some of that. So welcome to the program,
and let's talk about first the difficulty with getting pregnant.
Couples who struggle with that and the impact on couples
and on their sex life.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Yeah. So you know, I think a lot more couples
struggle with fertility than we even know because it's something
that most people don't even talk about, right.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
And.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
You know, couples can navigate this anywhere from one month
and even the first month. That's hard if we don't
necessarily know how to make a baby, right, No one's
really taught us how do we make a baby?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
We stick one part into another part saying correct.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
You're like, oh, it's so simple, but it's actually not
quite the opposite. Actually, you know, for most of people's
lives up until their mid twenties to thirties, they've actually
been trained the opposite way.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
They're like, do not make all cause that's right, you know,
especially for I think for the women in terms of
biologically that's where we're at. You have to learn your body, right,
And so there's a lot that goes into how do
I know when i'm for how do I know when
I'm ovulating? What does that even mean? Right? And for
(21:48):
couples who are navigating it together, they might have no
idea what that means, or it means that the woman
is now taking charge right, And for a lot of couples,
that is switching the script right in terms of their
sexual script, and even maybe they're life script in terms
(22:08):
of maybe before they were kind of equal partners in this,
or they were both navigating it together, but you know,
not in a huge concerted way, Whereas now we've switched
to okay, Well, the woman is in charge of her body, right,
she knows when she's opulating. She's usually the one who's saying, okay, it's.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Time time, like come home from work now, exactly right.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Whereas you know, I don't want to sound sexist. I
don't want to sound like I'm making gender roles, not
at all, but you know, I think for a lot
of couples, usually the sex script goes that the guy
initiates right, or we know around when it's going to happen.
Maybe the guy makes the first move, maybe we're waiting
for him to do so. Whereas now suddenly we're the
(22:57):
ones making the first move in terms of saying, okay,
it's go time, right, and there's a lot of pressure
on that. So that's where things might get rocky.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Right for then I've asked the couples exactly and I've
heard it from the men too, who feel the pressure
to stand up, you know, stand up on command.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Right, It's not always so easy.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
And then some of them are like, oh, I'm enjoying this,
you taking charge in us having sex like you know,
twice in a week for example, or what have you.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
But it doesn't last in this like there's an underlying
like you're just doing this.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
To make a baby book then what you know, does
this exactly exactly?
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I think there's a lot of that going on, right
because especially for couples where it was the guy's role
to initiate sex, and where sometimes she wants and sometimes
she doesn't want, which is totally fair, right, But suddenly
now she's saying we have to, not just that I
want to, but we have to, right again, that's changing
(24:05):
the dynamic completely, right. And then is it because you
want to have sex with me because you love me,
or is it because you really want that baby? And
you know, for a lot of couples, that's a really
hard line to navigate.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
And how and to navigate also the disappointment month after month,
you know, so we do it, we wait, I'm not pregnant,
and then how so sometimes it's the woman.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Whose hard is hit by that.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Sometimes both like how do they How should couples navigate that?
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Yeah, it's hard to navigate it? And you know what,
that's the bulk of what my work entails, right, because
too often we think it's only the woman who's experiencing
the hardships of this, right, right, when I want to
actually say that both of them, both of you are
insigma hardships, maybe in different ways. And I think for
(25:04):
a lot of couples they're not talking about it, right,
So that's where support is really necessary, right to talk
about the ins and outs of what can happen with
your sex life, what can happen with baby making life? Right?
What can happen emotionally too? Right, because this does take
(25:25):
a huge emotional toll. Yes, some people are lucky and
it happens right away, but for those who are not
as lucky or not as fortunate, right, it can take
anywhere from months to years of going through this cycle
of ups and downs. You know, some may face miscarriages,
some may face loss along the way, or just bad
(25:47):
news in general. Right, And you know, and we're just
talking about what happens. I like to say, quote unquote
in the wild, as in outside of the or in
terms of those who you know are doing it with
old fashioned sex, right versus those who are going through
(26:09):
treatments right, right, And that's a whole different thing altogether,
Right in terms of if you're injecting hormones, if you're
on timed intercourse, that is told to you by the doctors,
So it's not even one of you who has control anymore.
It's the doctors who are now in control, or anything
(26:30):
in between. Right. There's a lot of things that can happen,
and a lot of places where couples can get lost.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I know that in speaking to couples who are going
through especially like you say, the laboratory type of you know, sexuality,
it can be the most frustrating, disappointing, devastating, and how
(27:00):
one copes.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
With all of this impacts the couple.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Some people retreat, some people don't want to talk about it.
Some people need a hell of a lot of support.
I've heard some women complain that their partner hasn't been
there and doesn't understand. And one of the things I
want to talk about is miscarriage, because that is also
something that is common, you know, more common than we
(27:27):
probably think. And I think a lot of women miscarry
without even knowing they miscarry, but sometimes it can be
quite dramatic. She goes through it her body, but he
goes through it in terms of the grief and what
have you. So how do you see couples kind of
managing that?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
What do you usually see?
Speaker 4 (27:48):
Yeah, one hundred percent to everything you just said, Laurie,
in terms of you know, there's a lot of downs,
but there are ups too, And I want to say
that first while my number one thing is always talking
about hope, right as in to keep hope alive and
to keep focusing on the positives not only the negatives
(28:13):
in terms of trying to stay upbeat and trying to
you know, imagine your future and imagine your life once
you're past this. And I know that this takes up
a lot of you know, energy and a huge chunk
of time and it feels like you're stuck in that
moment in the trenches, really, but you will get out right,
(28:37):
and you will have hope, and you will have hopefully
your baby, and even if not, you will have a
life for yourself outside of this too. Right, And for
a lot of couples it's important to hold on to
that help, right.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Because it's hard to see when you're in there, and
if you've had multiple miscarriages and thinking beyond that, thinking
beyond the what you're trying to do right now, Right,
So when couples are in that baby making phase, they
are not thinking aside from we need to get this done.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
We need to do this, this is our number one goal.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Right, So thinking about life without doesn't even compute.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
And I hear that, and I think something else important
to say is, yes, we need you to focus on
making a baby. You know that it takes a lot
of effort, a lot of time, a lot of money,
a lot of everything. Right, But it's important to take
breaks too, right, And it is important to focus on
(29:44):
the good in your life and other things right, to
focus on your friends, to focus on the good strengths
and your couple. Right, to focus on sexuality outside of
baby making, whatever that might look like, right, as in
that might look like penetration, it might not, right, But
intimacy as in physical touching and kissing and emotional intimacy
(30:11):
of asking how are you doing? And can I support you?
And can you support me? And having fun?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right, that's important. That habit is important because the baby
making versus the love making would be the chore versus
the fun. Can feel good to make a baby.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Let's be real, like, maybe the act itself can still
feel good, but it's not driven by pleasure or or
even intimacy at that point.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
It's driven mechanically.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
So I'm gonna contest that for a little bit because
because actually, I don't know if you know this or
if a lot of people know this, but when the
woman is ovulating, she often feels extra sexy, right horn,
ye oh, yeah, right, So there could be some enjoyment
and that there could be a lot more warmth, there
(31:02):
could be feeling a lot more wet, right, and feeling
like your libido is really high up there, especially if
you've been on the pill before and you're coming off
of hormones, et cetera. Now you're finally kind of breathing right, right,
Ovulation for a lot of women can be a lot
of fun, right, And there can be a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
That can be Listen, I'm the first to say, if
you know, having struggled a little bit, and yes, it
was fun to do the the of course it was.
It was fun to do it. That the not fun
part is the timing and the pressure and the we
have to and you better get home and I'm ovulating
(31:43):
right now, and it's all of that stress. But you know, thankfully.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Well, And I think maybe also talking about to couples,
how do we do it in a gentler way, right
in terms of it might not have to be a
demand of come home right now and take your pants
off right for some people. But maybe I was gonna say,
maybe that's for a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
But just that it's just that if you've done it,
you know, twenty times in that right, in that respect,
maybe not so much fun right on?
Speaker 4 (32:16):
And you know, yes, I think to make a baby,
you are having sex multiple times in that window, right, Like,
it's not just once. It's usually over a few days exactly.
And yes, I can hear that it can get tiring
after a while, right, But that's why I go back
to injecting fun and making sure that you're taking breaks,
take a vacation, take a month off from trying, right,
(32:40):
explore your other hobbies whatever they might be, you know, painting, art, dance, exercise,
you know, making sure exercise is in line with your
fertility regimen. But making sure you're still seeing your friends,
you're still seeing your family, that you're still getting support,
and that it's not just tunnel vision of I need
(33:02):
to make a baby. We know you need to make
a baby, right, we know how much you desperately want this.
I was there, I fully understood it, and if you
had told me any of these things, I would have
been like, no.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Thank you, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
So I do get it. But at the same time,
right coming out of it, I do realize how important
those things really are.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Right and yeah, and keeping that line of communication open.
And usually, you know, baby making is done early in
the relationship generally speaking, so you're still in somewhat of
a honeymoon phase of a relationship. But there are couples
who have been together a long time who then try
(33:47):
and then have trouble, and sometimes you know, they can
things come up, right, like resentments and old stuff that
just resurfaces and things like that. So I think couples
need to know that it's okay to get help to
navigate some of these cicated feelings, because these are things
(34:08):
you don't feel. Until you feel them right, you don't
know how you're going to respond. To this or how
you're going to feel about this, or how you're going
to experience that loss.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Until you go, you go through it, so you can't
anticipate it.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
So it's it's part of her percent knowing that it's
okay and everybody can respond differently, but it's okay to
get help together.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Yeah, and you know, going back to what you were
saying about bringing up sentments that kind of thing. You know,
I think it's really important for both partners to remember
that their partner is not the enemy, right, because I
think a lot of the time, I think it's because
we are so insular right as and we're stopping our activities,
(34:51):
we're stopping seeing our friends because unfortunately, there's still so
much shame surrounding talking about fertility, right, which is so
crazy to me, right age exactly, like we are starting
to open up the conversation. I can see it a
little bit, but I have to say, most of my
clients tell me they have not spoken to their family,
(35:13):
they have not spoken to their friends about this, so
really they are so insular at this point, right that
your partner becomes your punching bag for everything, right, Because yes,
there's so many emotions here on both sides, right, there
are good emotions, right, there's good days, and there's excitement,
(35:34):
and then there's devastating emotions, and there's anger, and there's frustration,
and there's there's a lot, right, And so just making
sure that while you're navigating this to have outside sources,
not that they're your enemy is not whatsoever, but outside
sources of support, right, so that you can turn to
(35:56):
someone and talk, right, and you can look at your
partner right without feeling like they're the bad guy because
they're not getting you or whatever the story is. How
do we start seeing both perspectives right, Because that's the
thing too, is not everyone reacts in the same way
at the same time, No, especially couples. Right. One might
(36:20):
be super angry, the other one might be super sad.
The other one might be you know, relieved or excited
for the next phase when the other one's not there yet.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, that's true. And I've seen that.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
I've seen, you know, the impact of miscarriage where sometimes
it's the guy who takes it really badly. I mean,
I know we're talking in heteronormative waysier for the sake
of simplicity, but yes, you see that. You know, sometimes
one person takes it worse than even the person experiencing it,
(36:53):
So there's no accounting for how right.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Yeah, well, because I think we need to remember that
it impacts the partner just as much. Right, whether that
partner is a guy or girl or whoever they are,
it impacts them too to see the loss, right and
for sometimes maybe even more so, because they're not in control.
Right as in the person experiencing loss. It's not like
(37:17):
you're in control, it's not about that. But it is
your body. You're experiencing a firsthand, so you understand to
a certain level what's happening, whereas your partner has no
control over whatsoever. Right, they have no idea how it's
being experienced. It's not their body, right. So yeah, and
(37:39):
it's hard to see your partner.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Struggling, absolutely right, really hard to And when you're it's
also hard to be there for your partner when you're
struggling too.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
So when the two are struggling.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
And you exactly and you handle things differently, one needs
one needs to connect, the other one needs to disconnect.
That's where it becomes really difficult to navigate. So get
outside help if necessary to get you back to connection.
One of the things I want to talk about is
(38:11):
another struggle in terms of baby making and love making,
is a woman's biological clock, because this comes up a lot,
but women are getting married or maybe not married but
having children later, or settling into long term relationships later.
Used to be, you know, by twenty five, you were
(38:32):
married and already starting to have kids, which is your
peak fertility years. But now women are starting, on average
having kids in their early thirties to mid thirties. So
there is a kind of a pressure like that guys
don't experience.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
And how do you First.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Of all, it's not just navigating this because it's a reality.
It's like there is a biological clock. You know, by
the time I'm forty going to have very little you know,
or way reduced chance of getting pregnant. But how do
you know the pressure on couples, the pressure on the
partner too. We got to get this stuff going because
(39:16):
there's a clock here and they don't like, you know,
maybe not like to feel pressured on the other end.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
So how do you how do you work with those couples?
Speaker 4 (39:24):
Yeah, well, we talk about what are your values and
how do you live life in line with your values
right as in, how do you want to construct a
life together? What is it going to look like? Right?
And sometimes it might be individual therapy in terms of
looking at well, who would you like your partner to be? Right,
(39:48):
in terms of maybe that's the partner that you've found,
maybe it isn't right because if that partner is saying,
I'm sorry, I don't want children right now, right, and
you're I need children right now, that might not be
the best fit right right. And that's something that we
have to accept in something that you know, we have
(40:10):
to work on in terms of welt are you willing
to wait or are you willing to do it on
your own? Or are you willing to find someone else? Right?
That's definitely a conversation that has to happen. There is
also you know, medical alcohol it interference in terms of
you can freeze your ex.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Right if process in and of itself also that you
have get it will.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
It is one hundred percent. It's a process, but it's
a it is a good safety net, right in terms
of if you are approaching your mid thirties to late thirties,
you haven't found someone right and you don't want to
put that pressure on in terms of putting the pressure
right away on your new, brand new relationship, right, then
(40:56):
that might be the best option for you, right, and
you can that, yeah, and then you can decide, Okay, yes,
I can wait for five more years or whatever it is,
or you know what, No, I want to do this
on my own. And a lot of people are doing
this on their own.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I know it's right. It's so many people are doing
this on their own.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Now.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I know so many women who have decided.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
I think that's beautiful, honestly, in terms of taking charge
of your fertility and taking charge of what you want
in life, right, And I think that's amazing. Right. But
for the couples who do want to have kids together, right,
and maybe they are new and maybe it's about okay, well,
how do we navigate this in terms of making sure
(41:38):
that this is the relationship we want, right and making
sure we're both on the same page right away of saying,
you know, yes, I want children, this is the timeline
I want children in right, and you know going from there.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Yeah, that your timeline matches. I think is also is
a good one.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
You know.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I don't think, especially in dating, I don't think men
want the pressure of dating. Let's say a thirty five
year old and feel like, oh my god, am I
going to get trapped in here because they're approaching their fertility.
Like I had this conversation with a young man and
that was exactly it, and he ended up developing performance
(42:21):
anxiety because he was always afraid the woman was going
to get pregnant.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
You know, it was scary for him.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Like a good talk on birth control, it's really necessary,
right in terms of yeah, in terms of talking and
making sure that you're both on the same page, right, Well,
but I actually want to say the reverse sometimes, right
of a lot of times now, you know, the women
are saying that they're not ready to have kids because
they're not at the point in their career where they
(42:50):
want to go get pregnant, right, or maybe they don't
even envision kids in their future. And that's perfect, that's okay, right, Okay,
that's sometimes it is coming from the partner of saying
I really want children, Right, I went into this expecting children,
especially because we're at a later age, right.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Should people having that conversation really early on then in
the dating stud So.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
You know, yes, first of all, I definitely encourage people
to start talking about you know, do you want children
not children with me? Right? Right? I think that's a
huge difference.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
That's a bit of a pressure on the first date.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Correct, Right, But yeah, around the third to fifth date,
you should be talking about what are your values in life? Right?
Is having a family something that you really treasure or
is that not important to you? Is that something that
you're open to but you're not ready to commit to you? Right?
That kind of talk that, yes, that's important. But I
will say people have the prerogative of changing their minds, right,
(43:52):
And it can come up let's say a year or
two years later, and you're going, well, I thought we
were in this to have a family together, And sometimes
one of the partners says, I'm sorry, but I can't, right,
And that's it's hard. It's hard for both of them. Right.
(44:12):
It's something that they will have to navigate at that
point in terms of saying, is it the children themselves?
In terms of wanting children versus not wanting children? Are
there other dynamics in the relationship that need to be
worked on first before they can even approach that conversation. Right.
There's a lot of ifs and a lot of what's
(44:33):
going on. But we need open mindedness, that we need
flexibility to be able to say that, yeah, someone can
change their mind and it might be devastating and it
might be heartbreaking, but it happens.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
But it's absolutely And nobody is putting a gun to
your head to have a kid, you know, And I think, no, No,
it's something you really feel you can't have if you
go ahead, or you feel trapped into it or what
have you. You grow to resent your partner, and this
is you know, making a child. This is a child,
(45:08):
right like you so long commitment and that's right, and
it needs love from both parents, and it needs stability
and everything that it needs. So I think going into
it with an very open and clear idea of what
you want and what you're looking for and being on
the same page really goes a long way for handling all.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Of these yeah, but potentially turbulent waters.
Speaker 4 (45:36):
Yeah, but also just talking things through right in terms
of being flexible and saying, you know, I hear what
you're saying. It's not about negating it, but it's about
negotiating it right. In terms of saying, is this the
end of the world, right, or is this something that
we can talk about that. We can come to different
agreements about that. Maybe maybe you're not ready tomorrow, but
(45:58):
maybe you're going to be ready into years from now, right,
And can I wait two years? Right? Or is this
something that we have to work on in terms of,
you know, coming to a new vision altogether of what
we want our life to look like, right right?
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Just to get there without If whatever choice you make,
you made the choice for yourself. Don't forget that you
made the choice for yourself. So blaming a partner I
should have, I shouldn't have, I whatever it is, is destructive.
So if you decide, okay, I'm going to go along
(46:36):
with the not having kids, and I'll go along with
the potential.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Maybe you'll be ready, but maybe you won't be.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Don't hang around on the maybe hoping that or that
you can change that person's mind, because you will grow
to resent that person. So I think making sure these
conversations happen is important and having those open conversations, Doctor Ariel,
and thank you enough for your expertise and continued good work.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
Well, thank you so much for having me today. This
is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
We'll do this again. Thank you all right, take care and.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
We head to the mailbag. Now questions from you, Doctor Lorie.
We're going to start with the first one. Hey, doctor Lorie,
my husband and I are in our late thirties and
we have two kids and careers. We still make time
for sex, but not quite at the same level we
did in the beginning of our relationship ten years ago. Recently,
I was in the shower and decided to get off,
(47:35):
and when I was pretty close to finishing, my husband
walked in the room. I think we were both surprised,
and I kind of said, sorry, be out in a minute,
but he stayed there. I was in the zone and
didn't really notice that he was attempting to be included,
and I reiterated, saying, yeah, I'll just be a minute, okay.
When I got out of the shower, he was bummed
out that I didn't include him in the first place,
(47:56):
but it was a spur of the moment thing. I
had an extra five minutes. Tried to explain that, but
I don't think he understood. How do I get him
to understand the difference between our alone time and our
share time and soothe his ego, which I think was bruised.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Being jealous of your wife's vibrator. Let's look.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah, look, I can speak for all men. You know,
something hot's going on, We're gonna want to be involved,
and I can see how egos would get bruised.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Okay, but I mean grow up.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Okay, Well I was just gonna say dot dot dot.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
But maturity, Yeah, exactly, Like maybe I think the husband
maybe misses her or maybe misses their intimate time to
get together, and maybe he just felt left out.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
But of course, and also between it's super hot to
walk in on that. If you know, you really love
your wife and she turns you on you, you know,
it's like you're walking in the scene on a movie.
You're like, oh my god, this is happening right now. Uh,
she's not in that same scene. She's like, hey, I'm
having a good time, leave me alone.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Well well, I mean, but there is a difference between
a quick masturbation session and a love making session with
a partner. Maybe turn the tables on him. See how
he feels when he masturbates. Does he ever just rub
one out quickly just to relieve stress or tension? You know,
I'm sure that if you get him to see it
that way, he's going to understand, like turn the tables,
(49:21):
you know, and you need to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
We know.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
I think women are way more mature in this because
I think every guy is going, hey, look if I'm
in the middle of a session and she walks in,
join in, well.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Or he might just be in the shower wants to
do it quickly and that's it, and he just wants
to relieve himself. I mean, look, he needs reassurance. Yeah,
and also like you know, just like when he masturbates,
it's not because he doesn't want to be with you.
It's not that one thing replaces another thing. It's an end.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
It's not an.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
Ore situation, right, it's just like okay, So I think
we just need to clarify.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
That's well, I guess, I guess. I mean she's saying
I can decode this a little bit. I think she's
been quite probably practical in everything she said here that
you know, their sex life isn't as frequent as it
once was. That's all pretty natural for husbands and wives
and kids and busy careers. I I feel pretty confident
(50:22):
that all men in their minds want it to always
be the same level, and they want to have it
as much as they possibly can. So I totally get
him going, oh man, this is kind of a cool opportunity.
Would have been fun. I can see him being bummed
out a bit. But again, yeah, they got to be
mature about it, and you know, again, sometimes you gotta
take one for the team. At the same time, hopefully
(50:44):
she goes, hey, I owe you one, and you know
we'll circle back tonight or tomorrow or Friday.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Or be happy she's interested, right, be happy that there's
like this.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Is can only fuel wanting. So I think it's a
good thing. Now, that's a good thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
What we don't know is maybe every night before they
go to bed, she's reading dirty smut novels and now
he's like, oh, the smut novels are getting my time.
Now the shower's getting my time. I'm sad.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Maybe maybe, I mean that's why I said. Maybe he
just feels left out or neglected. But this is why
you have to talk, right, communicate.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Next letter, Doctor Lourie. I'm twenty three years old and
I don't really get wet down there when I'm turned on.
It's definitely become an issue in my sex life and
my boyfriend's my boyfriend is weirded out by it. I
think I can really really be turned on and ready
for sex, but will be dry as a bone. I
used to have an eating disorder and that lasted for
a few years. I think it might have something to
(51:44):
do with it, because it messed up my body in
other ways too. Is there any way to fix this
a supplement or something I can change in my diet.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
So in this situation, she's given us quite a bit
of information, and there could be many reasons why a
person doesn't lubricate, and the most likely culprit is there
some kind of imbalance in the hormones, which might very
well be related to the eating disorder. I mean, she's
only twenty three years old, you know, or there's some
other medical condition.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
And this is why she needs.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Absolutely to talk to a gynecologist about this, because they
need to figure out do the hormone test, figure out
what is going on. Stress and anxiety can also interfere
with arousal and lubrication. So I don't know if she's
on any medication, but medications can also have an impact
on lubrication, like for example, I'm thinking of antihistamines, antidepressants,
(52:37):
even birth control can cause dryness as a side effect,
so talking to a medical health professional to get to
the root cause is important. But in the meantime, using
an external lubricant that she can apply to her vagina
and to his penis prior to intercourse is the best
course of action.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
And there's lots of those sorts of products that can
be part of the fun.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
Right, Oh my god, there's absolutely and and you know,
there's really good lubricants out there. I'm thinking of, Like
there's a company called Flora v. There's ky liquid, there's
get the most slippery stuff you can but that's uh,
that will make a huge difference.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yeah, Like you can make it part of the fun
and not even make it an issue because you're just
having a good time.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
It just should be a standard anyway. I believe lubricant
should just be u It should be on the bedside
table for everybody.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, just say doctor LORII told me to do it,
and right there you go. You're good to go. You
don't have to worry about anything else. That's what I
do and then I don't get in trouble. Coming up
on the next edition of Passion, we will be talking
about the impact of aging on men's sexuality.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
Yes, for all you old folks out there, no really
aging stuff. It's not you know, the the reality is
a man's ard to age sexually anywhere from thirty five onwards.
So and men will tell you they notice a difference.
So I want to just dispel a lot of myths
and look at expectations and coming from a source, not
(54:14):
the you know, not from as doctor Mardi client says,
you know, from from an influencer who doesn't have the background.
So we will talk about the real deal. And of course,
you know, you can always read my book in the
meantime and ask your questions. The sex Bible for people
over fifty, we certainly discuss all of that in there.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
Excellent. Some people to thank for this edition of Passion.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
Yes, I want to thank all our listeners for making
us well for you know, getting keeping downloading, and this
is kind of why we do it. We want to
spread spread some news, spread some good information is really
our goal here. I want to thank Steven Voice who
contributes his original music to the podcast, So thank you
(54:59):
for that, and John, thank you for being a part
of you know, my week life month, your friendship.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
I am happy to do it. And I will remind
you whatever platform you're listening to the podcast on, there
might be a way to like, comment, share, review, any
of that sort of stuff that you can do on
your device right now would be super helpful to the
podcast and we would appreciate it. Doctor Lori will chat
next time.
Speaker 3 (55:26):
We shall take good Care Passion with doctor Lori Botito
and John Paul.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
To submit questions, business inquiries, or just to connect, visit doctor.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Laurie dot com. Thank you for supporting Passion
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