August 19, 2025 • 24 mins
Embark on a transformative journey with Colonel Charles M. Bechtel as we delve into his powerful memoir, Sent to War, Returning for Peace: My Reconciliation with the Vietnam War. Discover the raw, redemptive journey of a Vietnam draftee returning to the jungles decades later in search of healing. This episode uncovers the moments that shattered him, the people who helped him heal, and a unique perspective on both war and peace. Don't miss this eye-opening discussion and explore more at ColChuckBechtel.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey is Benji col Son of Alcohol from CBS Radio
and host of the syndicated talk show People of Distinction.
The talk gives you an in depth view of some
of the most dynamic, intelligent, and successful people on the planet.
Run to our website Alcohol Enterprises dot com for more info.
Email me through Benji at Alcohol Enterprises dot com if
you'd like to get involved with what we have going,
(00:30):
and as always, please continue to like and follow our broadcasts.
People of Distinction is internationally syndicated solely due to the
love and support that you all continue to give. We're
available across all major distributors, and as long as you
keep following, we're going to continue to put out the content.
Now sit back and strap in, because on the line
with us today we have the impressive Colonel Charles M. Bechdel,
(00:54):
and we're going to be discussing his incredible book, Sent
to War, Returning for Peace My Reconciliation with the Vietnam
War people. Listen, man, you're gonna want to run to
Amazon and purchase copies of this amazing book. But I
got an even better place for you. Check out his
personal site. That's Colonel Chuckbechdel dot com. And just to
(01:17):
make sure that's the abbreviation of colonel, So that's gonna
be col Chuck Bechdel b E C h T E
L dot com. There you're gonna gather more information on Chuck,
more information on this fantastic book. Hyperlink set up to
take it to the purchasing pages. Man, I'm telling you
one stop shop for it all again. That's Colonel Chuckbechtel
(01:41):
dot com. And listen, it is an absolute pleasure to
have Chuck here on the line. People. I want you
to envision something for me really quick. What does it
take to return to the battlefield and follow me here?
Not with a weapon, but with an open heart? I
get it. But something that is remarkably powerful and really
(02:04):
something that gets to the heart of his book, because
in his book, Sent to War Returning for Peace, Chuck
doesn't just recount his harrowing days as a Vietnam draftee.
He takes us on a raw, a redemptive journey back
to the jungles that at one time haunted him decades
(02:25):
later in search of healing. This memoir it isn't it
isn't just a war story that's going to be part
of it. Of course, but it is a radical act
of reconciliation, a testament to the veterans who carried the
weight of a very unpopular war and the citizens who
(02:45):
helped them lay it down. We're about to unpack the
moments that shattered Chuck the people who helped put him
back together in why peace, Man, Sometimes peace is the
hardest fight of all, because trust me when I tell you,
this conversation will challenge how you think about war, how
(03:06):
you think about forgiveness, and the stories that we tell
ourselves to survive. You're gonna run on over and pick
it up. I promise you. We're only gonna scratch the
surface here today, But my goodness, is the tip of
that iceberg massive. Here we go, Chuck, first and foremost,
welcome to people of distinction, and thank you very much
for being a guest. How are you doing today, sir?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Very good, Benji, thank you of course.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Listen man, Chuck, it is an honor to have you here.
I want to start first and foremost by by saying
the yeah, the common phrase of thank you very much
for your service. And as I always tell military representatives
when I say that, man, that thank you just doesn't
seem good enough, Chuck. The sacrifices that you and your
military brothers and sisters have made for myself and for
(03:53):
every other individual living in this country of ours, it's
just not enough, man. It's all I have to offer
you the moment. So I'm gonna offer it, but I
just want you to know that understand first and foremost
that it does not do justice to what you have sacrificed. Man.
So thank you again for your service. Most importantly, thank
you for being here with us to discuss this magnificent book.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
My pleasure.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Thank you, Chuck. Let's jump right in, man. I know
one of the one of the key figures that not
only played a pinnacle role into this book's creation, but
of course your particular journey, And we're gonna we're gonna
pay homage quickly to a missus Lee Williams, because she
played a key role in your healing. How did meeting
(04:36):
someone so deeply affected by the war yet willing to
bridge divides alter your sense of responsibility?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Benji, I never intended to write a book, to be honest.
The catalyst for the book was a fantastic trip back
to Vietnam in June twenty twenty two, yeah, with eleven
other veterans in a Vietnamese van, and of course our
outstanding leader Lee Williams. There was a tremendous trip because
of two things. First, the people on the trip. Two
(05:08):
Marines on the trip were badly wounded during the war.
Charlie Miller was severely wounded and spent fifteen months in
the Philadelphia Navy Hospital. He was in the hospital when
his younger brother, Jim, who joined the Marines as soon
as he got out of school, went to visit him.
Jim did not have to go to Vietnam since his
(05:29):
parents had already given up one son did a cause.
He said he was a Marine and not a coward,
and he wanted to go, and he did. He was
on patrol when they discovered some Vietcong soldiers in the cave.
His squad maneuvered against the enemy and he got shot
in the stomach. While he was holding stomach, he jumped
on an explosive device, which blew him apart. Jim Miller
(05:52):
sacrificed his life to save his Marines. He was awarded
to Silver Star, but his Marines said he should have
received the Medal of Honor. The other Marine, Lou Farganas
was shot twice on the same day. We had some
real American heroes on this trip, and the Vietnamese man
was too bad laid. He was the South Vietnamese helicopter pilot.
(06:14):
He was on our side. On April thirty seventy five,
A Sigon almost fall him to the Communist was flying
a UI helicopter when he received the call from his
headquarters to land immediately. South Vietnam had surrendered. He landed
and took on a full load of fuel. He also
had twenty six people pile onto his helicopter. Helicopter was
(06:37):
designed for a maximum of thirteen. He was seriously overloaded,
but he was able to get the helicopter flying and
he flew out to the US seven feet where he
landed on the aircraft carrier. The helicopter was then pushed
overboard to make room for more helicopters. The other essential
element was our extraordinary group leader the Vietnam by the
(07:00):
name of my T tort No, who would later become
Missus Lee Williams. She was five years old and her
sister three when they were put on an American helicopter.
A Psigon was fallen in April of seventy five. Her
mother was not allowed to get on the helicopter, but
her mother had to get her girls out of the
country before the Communists took over because their father was
(07:24):
an American CIA pilot. The girls grew up as orphans
in the US, but Lee grew to be a strong
independent woman and a school teacher in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
When she asked us to Vietnam Vets and we're visiting
her school, but if we'd like to go back to Vietnam,
twelve of us said yes. She took us an amazing
(07:46):
trip back in time when we were just kids fighting
a war in a foreign land where he did not
understand the culture language. She established an itinerary that made
sure we visited the area where every veteran had served.
This was an extraordinary story that had to be recorded
and told. That's why I wrote the book, Benji. On
(08:09):
the first page of the book, I dedicated to the
fifty eight thousand, two hundred and two service members whose
name are on the Black Wall of the Vietnam Memorial
in Washington, d C. And to the Vietnam Vets who
were disparaged or abused by American citizens when they returned
home from the war.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Chuck Listen, man, I'm so glad that you wrote this,
because there is there's a really skewed perception of the
Vietnam War, especially, and we're going to dive into that
in more detail and just a bit. But first and
foremost meant if you had the opportunity to take one
person from your past, either a fellow soldier, a protester,
(08:51):
a family member even back to Vietnam with you, who
would it have been and why?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Benji. As a matter of fact, I did take one
person from my past back to Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It was my wife. It was my wife for more
than fifty years, and Joe Klawsbechtel. She was with me
for most of my thirty five years that I were
an army uniform. She had her own profession as a
high school chemistry teacher, but I have to met. She
also did most of the child grooming for our two
kids because I was off some place taking training or
(09:27):
going to military schools. She enriched the trip for me
and my fellow Vets. By the second day, the Vets
were calling her Gi Joe. She is still trim and
fit and really enjoyed the trip and was anxious to
see what I had experienced in Vietnam. She's my biggest
fan and my harshest critic. He also provided input to
(09:49):
the book, and she helped me edit it.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Listen it, Chuck, that old adage rings true. Man behind
every great man is an even better woman. And I'm
a firm believer of a living testament to that because
I've been blessed to have been married to an incredible woman.
And it sounds like you've aligned yourself wonderfully with the
perfect partnering crime as well. Listen, I'm telling you, man,
(10:14):
you gotta head on over to Amazon. Colonel Chuck beckdel
dot com pick up copies of Central War Returning for Peace,
My Reconciliation with the Vietnam War. This is an eye
opening memoir that is gonna showcase the Vietnam War, but
it's also going to showcase a lot of what the
soldiers not only went through with their journey through overcoming
(10:40):
a lot of the horrors. And I think that's where
so much of the power lies in this book. Is
it's not just another depiction of a war. Yes, it
has that, but I think so often war is almost
glorified in a way, and for those of us that
haven't been on the front lines, we can and see
(11:00):
it from a very skewed perception. And I love what
Chuck has done by comprising this book because listen, it's
showing his perspective, but it's going to put things into
such a wonderful light and such a clear perspective for you.
So I'm telling you, man, add it to your shelf.
Focusing now on a shifting perspective. That's where I want
(11:23):
to go next, Chuck, because listen, man, I think that
there was something very interesting that happened here, and I
want to hear it from you because obviously, as a
young soldier fighting in the Vietnam War, you're heading there
and you have an understanding of the word quote unquote enemy,
right because you're fighting this and you have to look
(11:43):
at the people on the other side as that. I'm curious, man,
how did that understanding of enemy shift from your time
where you were in combat to your return trip decades later?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
It shifted completely. And I was there as an infantry
officer in nineteen sixty eight. We were at war with
Vietnam and the viet Cong and South Vietnam had infiltrated
to South Vietnamese government. One of the greatest challenges for
US soldiers in South Vietnam was a determining friend. From
fall in twenty twenty two our trip back, we were
(12:20):
warmly greeted by Vietnamese in the north and south of Vietnam.
One of the most positive experience on the trip was
visiting mister Newen Hung Me, a former North Vietnamese MiG
twenty one pilot. Mister hung Me shot down one of
our F four jets piloted by John Stiles. He received
(12:42):
the highest award for that, the Order of Ho Chi Minh.
Hung Me was later shot down by an F four
pilot by the name of Dan Cherry. Dan Cherry was
promoted to brigadier general and went back to Vietnam after
the war and found Me, and he brought him back
to the United States to meet John Styles. So it
(13:06):
had gone full circle. The pilot he shot down, the
part that shot him down to three of them and
they became friends. General Cherry wrote a book. The book
was titled Once We were Enemies, Now We are Friends.
That book, written in English, was lying on the coffee
table of Hung Me's house only a few feet from me.
(13:28):
As I was sitting there looking at him, I felt
a closer bond with this man who was once my enemy.
And I did American citizens who were waiting at US
airports to disparage and abuse American citizens returning home from
the killing fields of Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Wwome, Oh my goodness. Okay, so listen, Chuck, I want
to transition now, man, because I think a really key
component to this, and something that goes far beyond your
time on the battlefield, is the perception that a lot
of citizens here in America held towards soldiers, especially in
(14:09):
the Vietnam War. As I mentioned at the top, it
was a very unpopular war. And in your book you
recount both combat and especially the homecoming, and that's where
I want to focus on next. I'm curious to know
from your perspective, which was harder to revisit emotionally, the
(14:30):
violence of the war or the rejection from society afterward.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Benji, I was well trained by the army. I had
eight weeks of Special Infantry after basic training, and I
went through Infantry Officer Candidate School for twenty two weeks.
After that, I went on to a very grueling Army
ranger school. I was highly trained. I knew what was
going to happen on the battlefield. I had probably as
(14:57):
much training as I could. And I did my job.
I cared for my soldiers, the ones that were killed,
the ones that were blown apart, and I did the job.
The job wasn't going back. The job was in combat.
I spent thirty five years in an army uniform. But
how can any soldier prepare to be disparaged or abused
by his countrymen when he returns home from the battlefield.
(15:20):
I write in the prologue of my book that the
period of the Vietnam War was one of the most
shameful periods in American history, only behind slavery and the
way we treated our indigenous Americans. President used a nonfair
draft to man the war effort. Wealthy kids were sent
to college, where they got off with a college deferment,
(15:42):
while the war became a battle for kids on the
lower end of the socioeconomic scale. Robert McNamara a Secretary
of Defense, possibly the most despised man in America in
the late sixties. In nineteen sixty five, he initiated Project
one hundred. He lowered the mental standards for individuals to
(16:04):
enter the military. Their average IQ was seventy five. These
young men were sometimes labeled as MacNamara's misfits or MacNamara's wrons.
Of course, it wasn't their fault, it was his. Statistics
proved that they were three times as likely to die
on the battlefield as soldiers were a normal IQ, and
(16:24):
twice as likely to be court martialed. By the end
of the war, over five hundred thousand of these young
men were dispersed through all the services. In my book,
I provide stories of five Vietnam vets who were abused
by anti war protesters. One was refused membership in the VFW.
The VFW stands for Veterans of Foreign Wars WOW. Another
(16:47):
had bags of urine thrown at his bus on the
way to an airport to go home. Two of the
vets were spin on. Even older veterans did not always
come to the aid of Vietnam veterans. A special veterans
organization known as the Vietnam Veterans of America received a
federal charter from Congress in nineteen eighty six. By the way,
(17:08):
it was that organization that took us back that took
us back to Vietnam. Their motto is never again will
one a generation of veterans forsake another Chuck.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
What surprised you most about returning to Vietnam all these
years later? Was there a place or a person that
reshaped your perspective entirely?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I would say the overall itinerary set up by Lee
Williams was amazing, from Hanoi all the way to the
Mekong Delta. But there were two particular situations, the visits
to the Center for Victims of Agent Orange in the
nag and the King Kong Wheelchair Center in Saigon. Before
we left home, we sent money to the Center for
(17:58):
Agent Orange victims and we took school supplies such as
colored pencils and so forth. These were kids that had
been dosed by Agean Orange, and by the way, Benji,
a lot of us, myself alcluded, have pensions for exposure
to Agent Orange. Agian orange was a defoliant that was
a carcinogen caused cancer. My wife, the retired school teacher,
(18:20):
went right into the middle of the school children, found
an empty seat. She had taken a plastic jar of
math manipulatives that looked like children and adults of different colors.
The kids went right into it. They start putting these
little figures together, and when they were all done with that,
they got out pencil and paper and they started drawing
for her like she was a regular teacher. I was
(18:42):
never more proud of my wife than at that time.
The photo of sitting in the middle of these kids
will always be one of my favorites. The Grace Church
in Willow Street, Pennsylvania said enough money that a kidn'
Pong wheelchair center in Saigon to build six wheelchairs. Some
of the people never had a wheelchair. They waited for
(19:03):
us to get there before they took their chairs. One
old man used to walk on his hands using six
inch blocks of wood. It was tremendously satisfying to be
there to help the people in Vietnam, not to herd
of them. Yeah, the war killed about two million Vietnamese,
both North and South, combatants and civilians, including women and
(19:26):
small children. Benji, we always look at the war from
our side. Fifty eight thousand killed five or six times
out many wounded. The amount of damage we did to
people and places over there was horrendous.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Chuck listen man, there are so many questions that I
would love to ask you, and people don't. I guess say,
I could talk to Chuck for hours. There is so
much information to be found, but also the conversation is
so layered, it is so nuanced. I think, what I
want to close out with this right, and I hope
that it's the right one to close out with because
(20:01):
it really is so valuable for me. But I know
my listening audience, man, and they're gonna be like, well,
you can ask this, and that it's always something that's
left off. But I love your title, Chuck, because the
duality of it exposes so much right because it right
there and very poignantly, it suggests a journey from war
to peace. I want to know, was there a single
(20:24):
moment when you realized you needed reconciliation or was it
potentially a gradual awakening, Benji?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
The Vietnam War divided our country like it had not
been divided since the Civil War. I recently spoke to
a dust Off pilot. He's a guy who flew into
the battlefield to get our wounded. Pretty tough job. And
while he was doing that in Vietnam, he had a brother,
a younger brother who was the leader of the anti
(20:54):
war demonstration in his high school. This is my book,
but our entire country to a reconciliation with the Vietnam War.
It was the first war where the US citizens attacked
their own warriors, which had to be very rewarding for
Ho Chi Men and his fellow Communist leaders. The undisputed
(21:16):
world's great superpower lost the war to a third world
country where they were still plowned their fields with water buffalo.
We proved to our potential enemies that we were far
from invincible. The Lost War affected our psyche of our country.
The reconciliation I wrote about was more with citizens who
(21:37):
disparaged American citizens in the Vietnamese There war also a
host of anti war songs and movies that veterans had
to deal with. I'm very critical of them in my book.
I list songs and I list movies. My wife at
one point said, why do we keep going to these movies?
And I said, because I think eventually we're going to
(21:58):
get the one that's decent. We did. The title of
that movie was We Were Soldiers Once. It was taken
from an outstanding book, We Were Soldiers Once and Young,
which was a bestseller. The Lost Vietnam War was a
manifestation of the inept leadership in Washington, and General sitting
in Pentagon deserved their share a credit for it. Also
(22:20):
love that Thank you Benjim.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Listen, check, thank you man. People like I mentioned, the
conversation has just begun. There is so much to be
found with the confines and within on the pages of
this book. So first and foremost, let me say it again. Okay,
remember it's Amazon, It's Colonel Chuck beckdel dot com. Pick
up copies of Sent to War Returning for Peace today,
(22:44):
because this book speaks volumes not only of just one
individual's journey, but really of so many soldiers that unfortunately
never get a chance to have their stories heard. What
I really love about this book and what it can
showcase man, it proves that some wars don't end when
(23:06):
the fighting stops. They end when we choose to make
peace with our past. Follow me here for a second,
because listen, If Chuck's journey teaches us anything, it's that healing, man.
Healing isn't about forgetting, It's about returning with courage to
the places that broke you and rewriting the ending. So
(23:30):
to everybody out there, listening, man. I hope we honor
veterans not just with gratitude, but with the space to heal,
with grace, to be heard, and with the commitment to
build a world where coming home means more than just survival.
This book can truly help open our eyes to so much.
(23:53):
But remember, it's one person's perspective, it's one person's story,
but it embodies so money, so many voices that unfortunately
get lost to time, that never get told and get buried.
Head on over there, pick up your copies today, Chuck,
listen and thank you for I really do mean thank
(24:14):
you for churning your pain into a roadmap for peas
because it's going to help so many others. And you
are a true embodiment of a person of distinction and
it was an absolute honor and such a pleasure. Continue
your fight, continue with this fantastic work, and again, thank
(24:35):
you for being a guest with us to people of distinction.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I thought you did super jobs. You're very smooth. Actually,
why you do what you do? Thank you very much, Benny.
What's a very real pleasure
Hey is Benji col Son of Alcohol from CBS Radio
and host of the syndicated talk show People of Distinction.
The talk gives you an in depth view of some
of the most dynamic, intelligent, and successful people on the planet.
Run to our website Alcohol Enterprises dot com for more info.
Email me through Benji at Alcohol Enterprises dot com if
you'd like to get involved with what we have going,
(00:30):
and as always, please continue to like and follow our broadcasts.
People of Distinction is internationally syndicated solely due to the
love and support that you all continue to give. We're
available across all major distributors, and as long as you
keep following, we're going to continue to put out the content.
Now sit back and strap in, because on the line
with us today we have the impressive Colonel Charles M. Bechdel,
(00:54):
and we're going to be discussing his incredible book, Sent
to War, Returning for Peace My Reconciliation with the Vietnam
War people. Listen, man, you're gonna want to run to
Amazon and purchase copies of this amazing book. But I
got an even better place for you. Check out his
personal site. That's Colonel Chuckbechdel dot com. And just to
(01:17):
make sure that's the abbreviation of colonel, So that's gonna
be col Chuck Bechdel b E C h T E
L dot com. There you're gonna gather more information on Chuck,
more information on this fantastic book. Hyperlink set up to
take it to the purchasing pages. Man, I'm telling you
one stop shop for it all again. That's Colonel Chuckbechtel
(01:41):
dot com. And listen, it is an absolute pleasure to
have Chuck here on the line. People. I want you
to envision something for me really quick. What does it
take to return to the battlefield and follow me here?
Not with a weapon, but with an open heart? I
get it. But something that is remarkably powerful and really
(02:04):
something that gets to the heart of his book, because
in his book, Sent to War Returning for Peace, Chuck
doesn't just recount his harrowing days as a Vietnam draftee.
He takes us on a raw, a redemptive journey back
to the jungles that at one time haunted him decades
(02:25):
later in search of healing. This memoir it isn't it
isn't just a war story that's going to be part
of it. Of course, but it is a radical act
of reconciliation, a testament to the veterans who carried the
weight of a very unpopular war and the citizens who
(02:45):
helped them lay it down. We're about to unpack the
moments that shattered Chuck the people who helped put him
back together in why peace, Man, Sometimes peace is the
hardest fight of all, because trust me when I tell you,
this conversation will challenge how you think about war, how
(03:06):
you think about forgiveness, and the stories that we tell
ourselves to survive. You're gonna run on over and pick
it up. I promise you. We're only gonna scratch the
surface here today, But my goodness, is the tip of
that iceberg massive. Here we go, Chuck, first and foremost,
welcome to people of distinction, and thank you very much
for being a guest. How are you doing today, sir?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Very good, Benji, thank you of course.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Listen man, Chuck, it is an honor to have you here.
I want to start first and foremost by by saying
the yeah, the common phrase of thank you very much
for your service. And as I always tell military representatives
when I say that, man, that thank you just doesn't
seem good enough, Chuck. The sacrifices that you and your
military brothers and sisters have made for myself and for
(03:53):
every other individual living in this country of ours, it's
just not enough, man. It's all I have to offer
you the moment. So I'm gonna offer it, but I
just want you to know that understand first and foremost
that it does not do justice to what you have sacrificed. Man.
So thank you again for your service. Most importantly, thank
you for being here with us to discuss this magnificent book.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
My pleasure.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Thank you, Chuck. Let's jump right in, man. I know
one of the one of the key figures that not
only played a pinnacle role into this book's creation, but
of course your particular journey, And we're gonna we're gonna
pay homage quickly to a missus Lee Williams, because she
played a key role in your healing. How did meeting
(04:36):
someone so deeply affected by the war yet willing to
bridge divides alter your sense of responsibility?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Benji, I never intended to write a book, to be honest.
The catalyst for the book was a fantastic trip back
to Vietnam in June twenty twenty two, yeah, with eleven
other veterans in a Vietnamese van, and of course our
outstanding leader Lee Williams. There was a tremendous trip because
of two things. First, the people on the trip. Two
(05:08):
Marines on the trip were badly wounded during the war.
Charlie Miller was severely wounded and spent fifteen months in
the Philadelphia Navy Hospital. He was in the hospital when
his younger brother, Jim, who joined the Marines as soon
as he got out of school, went to visit him.
Jim did not have to go to Vietnam since his
(05:29):
parents had already given up one son did a cause.
He said he was a Marine and not a coward,
and he wanted to go, and he did. He was
on patrol when they discovered some Vietcong soldiers in the cave.
His squad maneuvered against the enemy and he got shot
in the stomach. While he was holding stomach, he jumped
on an explosive device, which blew him apart. Jim Miller
(05:52):
sacrificed his life to save his Marines. He was awarded
to Silver Star, but his Marines said he should have
received the Medal of Honor. The other Marine, Lou Farganas
was shot twice on the same day. We had some
real American heroes on this trip, and the Vietnamese man
was too bad laid. He was the South Vietnamese helicopter pilot.
(06:14):
He was on our side. On April thirty seventy five,
A Sigon almost fall him to the Communist was flying
a UI helicopter when he received the call from his
headquarters to land immediately. South Vietnam had surrendered. He landed
and took on a full load of fuel. He also
had twenty six people pile onto his helicopter. Helicopter was
(06:37):
designed for a maximum of thirteen. He was seriously overloaded,
but he was able to get the helicopter flying and
he flew out to the US seven feet where he
landed on the aircraft carrier. The helicopter was then pushed
overboard to make room for more helicopters. The other essential
element was our extraordinary group leader the Vietnam by the
(07:00):
name of my T tort No, who would later become
Missus Lee Williams. She was five years old and her
sister three when they were put on an American helicopter.
A Psigon was fallen in April of seventy five. Her
mother was not allowed to get on the helicopter, but
her mother had to get her girls out of the
country before the Communists took over because their father was
(07:24):
an American CIA pilot. The girls grew up as orphans
in the US, but Lee grew to be a strong
independent woman and a school teacher in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
When she asked us to Vietnam Vets and we're visiting
her school, but if we'd like to go back to Vietnam,
twelve of us said yes. She took us an amazing
(07:46):
trip back in time when we were just kids fighting
a war in a foreign land where he did not
understand the culture language. She established an itinerary that made
sure we visited the area where every veteran had served.
This was an extraordinary story that had to be recorded
and told. That's why I wrote the book, Benji. On
(08:09):
the first page of the book, I dedicated to the
fifty eight thousand, two hundred and two service members whose
name are on the Black Wall of the Vietnam Memorial
in Washington, d C. And to the Vietnam Vets who
were disparaged or abused by American citizens when they returned
home from the war.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Chuck Listen, man, I'm so glad that you wrote this,
because there is there's a really skewed perception of the
Vietnam War, especially, and we're going to dive into that
in more detail and just a bit. But first and
foremost meant if you had the opportunity to take one
person from your past, either a fellow soldier, a protester,
(08:51):
a family member even back to Vietnam with you, who
would it have been and why?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Benji. As a matter of fact, I did take one
person from my past back to Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It was my wife. It was my wife for more
than fifty years, and Joe Klawsbechtel. She was with me
for most of my thirty five years that I were
an army uniform. She had her own profession as a
high school chemistry teacher, but I have to met. She
also did most of the child grooming for our two
kids because I was off some place taking training or
(09:27):
going to military schools. She enriched the trip for me
and my fellow Vets. By the second day, the Vets
were calling her Gi Joe. She is still trim and
fit and really enjoyed the trip and was anxious to
see what I had experienced in Vietnam. She's my biggest
fan and my harshest critic. He also provided input to
(09:49):
the book, and she helped me edit it.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Listen it, Chuck, that old adage rings true. Man behind
every great man is an even better woman. And I'm
a firm believer of a living testament to that because
I've been blessed to have been married to an incredible woman.
And it sounds like you've aligned yourself wonderfully with the
perfect partnering crime as well. Listen, I'm telling you, man,
(10:14):
you gotta head on over to Amazon. Colonel Chuck beckdel
dot com pick up copies of Central War Returning for Peace,
My Reconciliation with the Vietnam War. This is an eye
opening memoir that is gonna showcase the Vietnam War, but
it's also going to showcase a lot of what the
soldiers not only went through with their journey through overcoming
(10:40):
a lot of the horrors. And I think that's where
so much of the power lies in this book. Is
it's not just another depiction of a war. Yes, it
has that, but I think so often war is almost
glorified in a way, and for those of us that
haven't been on the front lines, we can and see
(11:00):
it from a very skewed perception. And I love what
Chuck has done by comprising this book because listen, it's
showing his perspective, but it's going to put things into
such a wonderful light and such a clear perspective for you.
So I'm telling you, man, add it to your shelf.
Focusing now on a shifting perspective. That's where I want
(11:23):
to go next, Chuck, because listen, man, I think that
there was something very interesting that happened here, and I
want to hear it from you because obviously, as a
young soldier fighting in the Vietnam War, you're heading there
and you have an understanding of the word quote unquote enemy,
right because you're fighting this and you have to look
(11:43):
at the people on the other side as that. I'm curious, man,
how did that understanding of enemy shift from your time
where you were in combat to your return trip decades later?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
It shifted completely. And I was there as an infantry
officer in nineteen sixty eight. We were at war with
Vietnam and the viet Cong and South Vietnam had infiltrated
to South Vietnamese government. One of the greatest challenges for
US soldiers in South Vietnam was a determining friend. From
fall in twenty twenty two our trip back, we were
(12:20):
warmly greeted by Vietnamese in the north and south of Vietnam.
One of the most positive experience on the trip was
visiting mister Newen Hung Me, a former North Vietnamese MiG
twenty one pilot. Mister hung Me shot down one of
our F four jets piloted by John Stiles. He received
(12:42):
the highest award for that, the Order of Ho Chi Minh.
Hung Me was later shot down by an F four
pilot by the name of Dan Cherry. Dan Cherry was
promoted to brigadier general and went back to Vietnam after
the war and found Me, and he brought him back
to the United States to meet John Styles. So it
(13:06):
had gone full circle. The pilot he shot down, the
part that shot him down to three of them and
they became friends. General Cherry wrote a book. The book
was titled Once We were Enemies, Now We are Friends.
That book, written in English, was lying on the coffee
table of Hung Me's house only a few feet from me.
(13:28):
As I was sitting there looking at him, I felt
a closer bond with this man who was once my enemy.
And I did American citizens who were waiting at US
airports to disparage and abuse American citizens returning home from
the killing fields of Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Wwome, Oh my goodness. Okay, so listen, Chuck, I want
to transition now, man, because I think a really key
component to this, and something that goes far beyond your
time on the battlefield, is the perception that a lot
of citizens here in America held towards soldiers, especially in
(14:09):
the Vietnam War. As I mentioned at the top, it
was a very unpopular war. And in your book you
recount both combat and especially the homecoming, and that's where
I want to focus on next. I'm curious to know
from your perspective, which was harder to revisit emotionally, the
(14:30):
violence of the war or the rejection from society afterward.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Benji, I was well trained by the army. I had
eight weeks of Special Infantry after basic training, and I
went through Infantry Officer Candidate School for twenty two weeks.
After that, I went on to a very grueling Army
ranger school. I was highly trained. I knew what was
going to happen on the battlefield. I had probably as
(14:57):
much training as I could. And I did my job.
I cared for my soldiers, the ones that were killed,
the ones that were blown apart, and I did the job.
The job wasn't going back. The job was in combat.
I spent thirty five years in an army uniform. But
how can any soldier prepare to be disparaged or abused
by his countrymen when he returns home from the battlefield.
(15:20):
I write in the prologue of my book that the
period of the Vietnam War was one of the most
shameful periods in American history, only behind slavery and the
way we treated our indigenous Americans. President used a nonfair
draft to man the war effort. Wealthy kids were sent
to college, where they got off with a college deferment,
(15:42):
while the war became a battle for kids on the
lower end of the socioeconomic scale. Robert McNamara a Secretary
of Defense, possibly the most despised man in America in
the late sixties. In nineteen sixty five, he initiated Project
one hundred. He lowered the mental standards for individuals to
(16:04):
enter the military. Their average IQ was seventy five. These
young men were sometimes labeled as MacNamara's misfits or MacNamara's wrons.
Of course, it wasn't their fault, it was his. Statistics
proved that they were three times as likely to die
on the battlefield as soldiers were a normal IQ, and
(16:24):
twice as likely to be court martialed. By the end
of the war, over five hundred thousand of these young
men were dispersed through all the services. In my book,
I provide stories of five Vietnam vets who were abused
by anti war protesters. One was refused membership in the VFW.
The VFW stands for Veterans of Foreign Wars WOW. Another
(16:47):
had bags of urine thrown at his bus on the
way to an airport to go home. Two of the
vets were spin on. Even older veterans did not always
come to the aid of Vietnam veterans. A special veterans
organization known as the Vietnam Veterans of America received a
federal charter from Congress in nineteen eighty six. By the way,
(17:08):
it was that organization that took us back that took
us back to Vietnam. Their motto is never again will
one a generation of veterans forsake another Chuck.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
What surprised you most about returning to Vietnam all these
years later? Was there a place or a person that
reshaped your perspective entirely?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I would say the overall itinerary set up by Lee
Williams was amazing, from Hanoi all the way to the
Mekong Delta. But there were two particular situations, the visits
to the Center for Victims of Agent Orange in the
nag and the King Kong Wheelchair Center in Saigon. Before
we left home, we sent money to the Center for
(17:58):
Agent Orange victims and we took school supplies such as
colored pencils and so forth. These were kids that had
been dosed by Agean Orange, and by the way, Benji,
a lot of us, myself alcluded, have pensions for exposure
to Agent Orange. Agian orange was a defoliant that was
a carcinogen caused cancer. My wife, the retired school teacher,
(18:20):
went right into the middle of the school children, found
an empty seat. She had taken a plastic jar of
math manipulatives that looked like children and adults of different colors.
The kids went right into it. They start putting these
little figures together, and when they were all done with that,
they got out pencil and paper and they started drawing
for her like she was a regular teacher. I was
(18:42):
never more proud of my wife than at that time.
The photo of sitting in the middle of these kids
will always be one of my favorites. The Grace Church
in Willow Street, Pennsylvania said enough money that a kidn'
Pong wheelchair center in Saigon to build six wheelchairs. Some
of the people never had a wheelchair. They waited for
(19:03):
us to get there before they took their chairs. One
old man used to walk on his hands using six
inch blocks of wood. It was tremendously satisfying to be
there to help the people in Vietnam, not to herd
of them. Yeah, the war killed about two million Vietnamese,
both North and South, combatants and civilians, including women and
(19:26):
small children. Benji, we always look at the war from
our side. Fifty eight thousand killed five or six times
out many wounded. The amount of damage we did to
people and places over there was horrendous.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Chuck listen man, there are so many questions that I
would love to ask you, and people don't. I guess say,
I could talk to Chuck for hours. There is so
much information to be found, but also the conversation is
so layered, it is so nuanced. I think, what I
want to close out with this right, and I hope
that it's the right one to close out with because
(20:01):
it really is so valuable for me. But I know
my listening audience, man, and they're gonna be like, well,
you can ask this, and that it's always something that's
left off. But I love your title, Chuck, because the
duality of it exposes so much right because it right
there and very poignantly, it suggests a journey from war
to peace. I want to know, was there a single
(20:24):
moment when you realized you needed reconciliation or was it
potentially a gradual awakening, Benji?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
The Vietnam War divided our country like it had not
been divided since the Civil War. I recently spoke to
a dust Off pilot. He's a guy who flew into
the battlefield to get our wounded. Pretty tough job. And
while he was doing that in Vietnam, he had a brother,
a younger brother who was the leader of the anti
(20:54):
war demonstration in his high school. This is my book,
but our entire country to a reconciliation with the Vietnam War.
It was the first war where the US citizens attacked
their own warriors, which had to be very rewarding for
Ho Chi Men and his fellow Communist leaders. The undisputed
(21:16):
world's great superpower lost the war to a third world
country where they were still plowned their fields with water buffalo.
We proved to our potential enemies that we were far
from invincible. The Lost War affected our psyche of our country.
The reconciliation I wrote about was more with citizens who
(21:37):
disparaged American citizens in the Vietnamese There war also a
host of anti war songs and movies that veterans had
to deal with. I'm very critical of them in my book.
I list songs and I list movies. My wife at
one point said, why do we keep going to these movies?
And I said, because I think eventually we're going to
(21:58):
get the one that's decent. We did. The title of
that movie was We Were Soldiers Once. It was taken
from an outstanding book, We Were Soldiers Once and Young,
which was a bestseller. The Lost Vietnam War was a
manifestation of the inept leadership in Washington, and General sitting
in Pentagon deserved their share a credit for it. Also
(22:20):
love that Thank you Benjim.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Listen, check, thank you man. People like I mentioned, the
conversation has just begun. There is so much to be
found with the confines and within on the pages of
this book. So first and foremost, let me say it again. Okay,
remember it's Amazon, It's Colonel Chuck beckdel dot com. Pick
up copies of Sent to War Returning for Peace today,
(22:44):
because this book speaks volumes not only of just one
individual's journey, but really of so many soldiers that unfortunately
never get a chance to have their stories heard. What
I really love about this book and what it can
showcase man, it proves that some wars don't end when
(23:06):
the fighting stops. They end when we choose to make
peace with our past. Follow me here for a second,
because listen, If Chuck's journey teaches us anything, it's that healing, man.
Healing isn't about forgetting, It's about returning with courage to
the places that broke you and rewriting the ending. So
(23:30):
to everybody out there, listening, man. I hope we honor
veterans not just with gratitude, but with the space to heal,
with grace, to be heard, and with the commitment to
build a world where coming home means more than just survival.
This book can truly help open our eyes to so much.
(23:53):
But remember, it's one person's perspective, it's one person's story,
but it embodies so money, so many voices that unfortunately
get lost to time, that never get told and get buried.
Head on over there, pick up your copies today, Chuck,
listen and thank you for I really do mean thank
(24:14):
you for churning your pain into a roadmap for peas
because it's going to help so many others. And you
are a true embodiment of a person of distinction and
it was an absolute honor and such a pleasure. Continue
your fight, continue with this fantastic work, and again, thank
(24:35):
you for being a guest with us to people of distinction.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I thought you did super jobs. You're very smooth. Actually,
why you do what you do? Thank you very much, Benny.
What's a very real pleasure
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com