April 4, 2025 • 22 mins
Western masculinity is broken—and this doctor has the cure. Ryan Seidlitz reveals how suppressed grief and anger are sabotaging men’s lives, and the radical emotional skills needed to thrive. An episode you can’t afford to miss.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey is Benji col Son of Alcohol from CBS Radio
and host of the syndicated talk show People of Distinction.
The talk gives you an in depth view of some
of the most dynamic, intelligent, and successful people on the planet.
Run to our website Alcohol Enterprises dot com for more info.
Email me through Benji at Alcohol Enterprises dot com if
you'd like to get involved with what we have going,
(00:30):
and as always, please continue to like and follow our broadcasts.
People of Distinction is internationally syndicated solely due to the
love and support that you all continue to give. We're
available across all major distributors, and as long as you
keep following, We're going to continue to put out the content.
Now sit back and strap in because on the line
with us today we have doctor Ryan J. Sidelets. Now
(00:53):
we're going to be discussing his amazing book The Incredible
Shrinking Men Dismantling the Patriarch with In I love it.
It's available through Amazon, Barnes, and Noble, in a whole
host of other places. But if you want to gather
everything that he has in store, people, check out these
two sites that I'm about to list for you. The
first one is Katabasis, LLLC dot com, next Psychologytoday dot com,
(01:18):
both of which are gonna have so much helpful resources,
so much information, and I'm telling you it truly is
a one stop shop again Katabasis LLLC dot com, followed
by psychologytoday dot com and listen, it is a pleasure
to have Doctor sidelets here on the line. People, we
are gonna get into it today. I got a question
(01:40):
for you, man, ask yourself this, what exactly does it
mean to be a man in today's world? I mean,
you know, listen, I think it's a fair question. I
think it's one delving into and one worth discussing because
in a society that often equates masculinity with stoicism and strength,
man Doctor Sideletz is here to all offer a thought
(02:01):
provoking narrative that's gonna challenge each and every one of
us to rethink everything we've been taught. His groundbreaking book
delves into the transformative power of vulnerability, grief, and emotional connectivity,
offering a bold new vision of masculinity that fosters resilience
and compassion. People, I'm here for it. I'm telling you
(02:23):
this is a discussion I'm looking forward to having, and
I know you are all looking forward to listening to it,
and by the time we've concluded, you're gonna run and
purchase your copies, because yeah, we're not gonna give it
all away here today. Okay, we're gonna scratch the surface.
We're gonna cover a little bit of it, give you
a nice little taste, and then you're gonna pick it
up yourself, because this is one you're gonna recognize. It
(02:43):
needs to be added to your shelf and these are
conversations that need to be had. Sit back and strap in.
Doctor Sideltz, first and foremost, man, Welcome to people of distinction,
and thank you very much for being a guest. How
are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Oh so good, Benji, I say honor to be with you,
and I'm just I'm giddy. I'm looking forward to talk.
So yeah, let's jump in.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I appreciate it, man, Listen, I'm looking forward to it.
I think what you've done here is something that's needed.
I think so often we have these these these stereotypes,
these impressions that we place on ourselves on those around us.
And you know, honestly, man, it's it's unhealthy. For one thing,
and it really is unnecessary because I don't think that
(03:25):
there is just one particular way a man should be.
And I'm so looking forward to this discussion. First and foremost,
it's important, you know, so everybody knows who you are,
your background, and understand that you are equipped to handle
this discussion. Tell us a little bit more about yourself.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, sure, thing. So the past, I guess two decades
are sent as a minister, social worker, counselor and therapist,
adjunct professor, and now writer. I've been serving incarcerated men
and women the past decade. I hold a master's degree
in clinical counseling from Pacific and a doctorate in social
(04:02):
work from USC. This book has really taken about seven
years to get published, but it feels like a lifetime
to write, and so that's a little bit about me.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Love that. Well, listen, a lifetime to write because we're
ever changing, right, the ever evolving world around us, and
also as human beings, we're dynamic, right, We're evolving, we're changing.
So listen, it took exactly how long it needed to
take to be able to come to this amazing development.
I want to start, first and foremost from your perception,
(04:35):
given your experience, man, and it's almost an unfair question,
because I think it is it's very subjective. But how
do you define healthy masculinity in contrast to the traditional
Western concept of manhood and why is that shift necessary?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
An incredible question. I think one of the aims in
this book is exploring how men can become better stewards
of their pain. How do we own our shadows, those
things that we've not addressed or maybe even acknowledged, the
things we do not want to think or feel, the
things in us that we despise and have been running from.
(05:13):
So one of the questions I approached was how can
men approach these not in resistance, but how do we
open up to the discomfort. It's so that we can
become the men our families, our communities, and this country
frankly needs and have been waiting for. In such a
time as this, I think it's really too important for
(05:35):
us not to do the inner work, because if we
do not, we're going to see firsthand how reckless society
can become. So parts of the book I share about
my own personal story, my narrative, my trauma, my inner work,
and what it's been like diving into really the soul work,
the shadows and I kind of paint a picture of
(05:58):
what's it been like for me. I the last seven
years has been the very intentional my own meditation practice
in doing meditation retreats, silent retreats three to five days,
just listening within, blowing down, And really I'm learning a
lot of the messages that I received about masculinity. So
in some ways, how do I sit with the suffering
(06:20):
and to learn what a tender, compassionate and whole man
might look like.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, I love that doctor Siltz. I can't go anywhere else. Now, Man,
talk to us a little bit more about your particular
journey and what inspired you then to culminate everything into
this book.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Oh man, Well, the work started in Academia, I stayed
at USC and moved into a Greek piece about my
own father. He was diagnosed with glioblastoma, which is a
rare and extremely aggressive form of brain cancer, in twenty eighteen,
and he died in twenty twenty. Was never the same
(07:01):
after he died. He was and continues to be one
of my favorite men people and really was monumental in
writing this book. And I think the older I get,
the bigger his spirit grows in me. And so what
I've learned in my own grief was this concept of
gone in body but here in spirit has been an
(07:24):
important grief lesson for me. So really, writing this book
was a cathartic release and grief one of my healers
in a way.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Wow, well listen, man, first and foremost, thank you very
much for sharing such a personal aspect of your life.
And you know, people, listen. I know he's not looking
for the praise, but can we just stop and take
a second and examine how oftentimes, man, it's hard enough
for us to look at the mirror at ourselves, let
alone construct this window for others now to peer into
(07:58):
some of the deepest aspects of ours and try to
find themselves within it. Right, Because that's really what he's
doing here. By taking that leap of faith and showcasing himself,
we are now able to look at some of our
own vulnerabilities, to look at some of our own quote unquote,
you know weaknesses. And although you know again I say
(08:19):
purposely quote unquote, because they're not weak at all. But
it is a highlight that's going to lead into my
next question. This is something incredible and something so beneficial.
The book is called the Incredible Shrinking Men Dismantling the
patriarch Within by doctor Ryan J. Sideletz. You're gonna want
to head on over to Amazon, Barnes and Noble, a
whole host of other places. Check out Katabasis LLC dot
(08:42):
com as well as Psychology Today dot com to gather
more information. Doctor Sidlit's my next question when we're talking
about that quote unquote weakness, right, I'm curious to know
from your understanding, why do you think vulnerability is often
seen as weakness in men and how can in racing
that that vulnerability actually builds strength and resilience.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Oh man, that's a that's an incredible question. I think
the first the first thing, I think many times we're
not aware of men, of the actual messages we received,
even starting in kindergarten from five six years old, that
(09:26):
are just ingrained in the society, and I think add
to men deteriorating from the inside. So messages like big
boys don't cry, big boys doing show vulnerability, don't be
a mama's boy, a man of mentality even for our boys,
A pressure to grow up, even in in adolescents. This
(09:49):
reinforcing only aggression, domination, anger, and a rejection of the
feminine or just equality mindset, and then realizing transphobia and homophobia.
These are all messages that most boys, I would argue,
are ingrained at a young age, and I think it
(10:10):
really adds to this deteriorating from the inside. So I
would start there first. How do we acknowledge these social
norms first? And then we have to unpack and deconstruct.
And I think the deconstruction is what you voiced really well,
it's a painful, really intense journey then many times is
(10:32):
full of suffering and grief.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Doctor Sideletz, what would be one simple but powerful action
that you would say men can take today to start
and you know, really begin their journey towards emotional growth.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah. I think, man, this is not going to be
necessarily the fun work. But I think what men have
been avoiding so long, and the word suppressing just kind
of pushing down the shame, whether it's pain, suffering, like
I said, loss and grief, the heartache, the depression and regrets.
(11:13):
Embracing those important teachers are the actual pathways to healing
and growth. And so this idea of how do we
break open ourselves from the inside in the most meaningful
of ways, and in the words of many experts, teachers, gurus, rabbis,
(11:35):
this idea that suffering is actually grace, that our heartache
is actually avenues to freedom. The emotion that men have
been avoiding is the actual tool that can free them,
and it's already within them, So it's nothing external to pursue.
(11:56):
If we don't become better stewards of our pain, I
think we'll continue to cast large shadows on our loved
ones and communities. And so how do we start first
within and what we've been avoiding for so long? Again,
when I stay suppressed, it's really what are the things
that I've been hiding from that I do not want
to think or feel? Those are often that really the
(12:18):
tools to get us to a place of opening up.
And so I talk a lot about a breaking opening.
And again, this is not a happy light to work.
This takes intensive, intensive work. And so what I've really
learned is some of the most important life changing lessons
have grown out of my own deep suffering, such as
(12:39):
losing my father, one of my heroes, just an incredible guy.
And so it's through a lot of that pain that
really I was able to to kind of unpack that healing.
But it's incredibly uncomfortable, incredibly comfortable.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Well, you know, uncomfortable, but a necessary step in the process. Right.
And people again, remember, much easier said than done, and
I think it's important to acknowledge that ahead of time
and understand the work is there and needs to be done.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We can't skip steps, but your future self will thank
you because of it. My next couple of questions is
going to go into that community that we have around us,
and also tying into impart role models. Right. I know
you mentioned your father on a number of occasions now
and I understand listen as a very a young father
in the process. Myself my children are very young, but
(13:37):
I understand the monumental amount of responsibility that I have.
So my question now to you, doctor Sielitz, what role
does the community play in this in terms of not
only father figures in role models, but other men coming
together to foster this safe place and well being for
each other, to be able to build one another in that.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
So well stated, I think for me a couple things
and kind of the process of writing this book, and
this book would not have been written or published without
some incredibly important, beautiful male friendships that kept urging You've
got to get this out, You've got to put words
to your experience, to your pain. And so I think, honestly,
(14:23):
without that community, without my brothers that were really encouraging
and but incredibly understanding and allowing me to be vulnerable
when I needed to be and just let me be
where I was at. And so I think that was
a huge thing because the reality right now is again
part of the reason for the title of the book
(14:43):
was the met are down right now. It does not
look good for us right now, despite what we see
with many visible male leaders in the country. We're hurting
and we're aspiring to often many men that are not
the best examples. And so we have a half a
million men right now that are dying by suicide. We
(15:04):
have eighty percent of suicides in twenty twenty were men
in America. Men represent ninety three percent of the prison population.
So the tide must change. And so I think the
truth is that we need to stay down in the
realm of becoming vulnerable instead of using our power to
(15:26):
push people down. And so I think men can be
incredible despite our shrinking, and we can transform power to
lifting up those so many times we have traditionally devalued.
So I think about I think about this, I think
about my dad, and I think about face to older
(15:46):
men and the last time I was in the presence
of a kind, compassionate, attentive man, and what that felt like,
and just how safe it felt. And so I stick
with that emotion in those moments, because I think we
can be really incredible, even though it may seem like
we're shrinking. I think we can heal beyond the patriarchs.
(16:08):
So I think we have many men, young men right
now looking to fill this father boid, this father wound.
And again there's this void that we're all looking searching
to meet. And I think many men that I run
into are searching for the actual acceptance the love of
their father. And we're filling that void with all kinds
(16:30):
of things. And so and I think we look again,
like I said, to the external, when I think we
tend to forget, like what is within us, within the
soul is actually many times a place to start.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
You know, I love you. I love everything that you
just said, doctor Silas, but especially that last part. I remember.
You know, I'm sure I didn't start here with him,
but I'm gonna I'm gonna plug it because that's where
it laid the most impact on me. You know, one
of my favorite I'm a big hip hop guy and
one of my favorite rap artists is an artist J Cole,
(17:05):
and one of his songs he was talking about, you know,
true revolution happens within you, and he said that in
one of his songs, and I remember hearing it years
ago and thinking, you know when I at that time,
you know, it was probably in my early twenties or something,
and I was just in this period where I wanted
the world to kind of I was just expecting a
(17:27):
lot from outside sources. I was expecting more from others.
I was expecting more from from those that were around me.
And it finally hit me. And again, I'm sure he
wasn't the first to come up with it, and as
is so often the case, I probably heard it from
a family member, maybe even my parents. And you know
howadays you know your parents, like I'm realizing this with
my kids right now. I could say something to him
(17:48):
twenty times, and then somebody else will come and say
the exact same thing one time, and all of a sudden,
it's like revolutionary to them man, it's groundbreaking and opened
their eyes like, what the heck I just said that?
And anyways, welcome to father.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So I remember hearing this and it really stuck with
me because I realized at that point, you can't control
your outside sources, you know. I mean, you can control
who you keep around you, but at the end of
the day, you can't push them to do or not
do anything. So when you focus on within, focus on yourself, man,
(18:26):
that is where the true revolution really begins. And there
is so much power in wisdom in that. And you know,
because you said that, man, I had another question that
I wanted to go into, and it's so not important
in comparison, because I want to close out with this
next question. If we could issue a challenge, and I
use that word purposely because I do want it to
(18:49):
be a challenge for each and every person listening and
for each and every man listening in here. If you
could issue one challenge to men reading your book, what
would it be? Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I think I think writing this book and losing my
dad help me read a fine what home looks like?
And I used to think for me, home was a place,
a childhood house in space. And I've moved from a
(19:26):
place of home as out there or against a house,
to a space within me, really the soul. Valerie Cower
who writes Page Warrior, I love what she says because
she really just says it better than than I could.
We must find this a sovereign place within us and
(19:46):
create our home there. And so this idea, and she said,
build a sovereign place inside you, adorn it, explore it,
make it welcoming. And you don't need a lot of
time or money right now, right here, you can drop
in and imagine a beautiful and loving space inside you.
If we can make that space inside us, that's a
(20:11):
pull of an endeavor and incredibly difficult too, But I
think that that's the place to start. I think is
how do we again open up ourselves to the wound,
and then how do we move on to becoming again
better stewards of pain? So I think, if I had
to say one thing, I think, how do we how
do we go within and find the nurturing and the
(20:33):
safe space that we so need right now?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I love that people, you know, this has been This
has been such a gratifying conversation. And obviously I'm biased
because I'm a man. But still it's something that I
think has offered a lot of wisdom. But you know
what I love so much more than all of that
is listen, man, we've barely scratched the surface. There is
(20:57):
so much left in store. Now we cover some of
the highlights, but like I mentioned, this book is the precipice.
It is a movement and it is the catalyst for
change that we have all been searching for. And listen,
I know it's for men and that is primarily what
it's geared for, but a lot of women out there
listening in. There's a responsibility that you all play as well,
for your boyfriends, for your brothers, for your fathers, for
(21:19):
your husbands. You have a responsibility and all of this
as well, to be there to help cultivate the right
environment for them to be vulnerable. Because we know the
optimist in me is like listen, man, society is gonna
is gonna come around, and we'll develop that safe space everywhere.
Let's call a spade a spade. We're not quite there yet,
(21:40):
so it starts off with at that home base and
women out there listening in. Man, you have that responsibility
to play and cultivating that But like he said, it
starts with each and every one of us, So I'm
gonna say it again. The book is called The Incredible
Shrinking Men Dismantling the Patriarch Within by doctor Ryan J. Sidelitz.
It's Amazon, It's barn to Noble, but make sure to
(22:01):
check out his other two sites, Katabasis LLC dot com
as well as Psychologytoday dot com. This is an amazing
book and a wonderful resource that you want to add
to your shelf because I promise you, like I said,
this is more than a conversation, man, This is a
call to action for anyone ready to embrace a healthier,
more authentic version of themselves. Because I know I'm ready to.
(22:23):
Who's going to join me along on this journey? That's
the question. Head on over there, man, let's get started,
Doctor Sideless, this has been an absolute honor man, truly
a wonderful discussion. Thank you once again for being a
guest on People of Distinction.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
So much fun, Benji, so much doctor your mood man,
it's so good
Hey is Benji col Son of Alcohol from CBS Radio
and host of the syndicated talk show People of Distinction.
The talk gives you an in depth view of some
of the most dynamic, intelligent, and successful people on the planet.
Run to our website Alcohol Enterprises dot com for more info.
Email me through Benji at Alcohol Enterprises dot com if
you'd like to get involved with what we have going,
(00:30):
and as always, please continue to like and follow our broadcasts.
People of Distinction is internationally syndicated solely due to the
love and support that you all continue to give. We're
available across all major distributors, and as long as you
keep following, We're going to continue to put out the content.
Now sit back and strap in because on the line
with us today we have doctor Ryan J. Sidelets. Now
(00:53):
we're going to be discussing his amazing book The Incredible
Shrinking Men Dismantling the Patriarch with In I love it.
It's available through Amazon, Barnes, and Noble, in a whole
host of other places. But if you want to gather
everything that he has in store, people, check out these
two sites that I'm about to list for you. The
first one is Katabasis, LLLC dot com, next Psychologytoday dot com,
(01:18):
both of which are gonna have so much helpful resources,
so much information, and I'm telling you it truly is
a one stop shop again Katabasis LLLC dot com, followed
by psychologytoday dot com and listen, it is a pleasure
to have Doctor sidelets here on the line. People, we
are gonna get into it today. I got a question
(01:40):
for you, man, ask yourself this, what exactly does it
mean to be a man in today's world? I mean,
you know, listen, I think it's a fair question. I
think it's one delving into and one worth discussing because
in a society that often equates masculinity with stoicism and strength,
man Doctor Sideletz is here to all offer a thought
(02:01):
provoking narrative that's gonna challenge each and every one of
us to rethink everything we've been taught. His groundbreaking book
delves into the transformative power of vulnerability, grief, and emotional connectivity,
offering a bold new vision of masculinity that fosters resilience
and compassion. People, I'm here for it. I'm telling you
(02:23):
this is a discussion I'm looking forward to having, and
I know you are all looking forward to listening to it,
and by the time we've concluded, you're gonna run and
purchase your copies, because yeah, we're not gonna give it
all away here today. Okay, we're gonna scratch the surface.
We're gonna cover a little bit of it, give you
a nice little taste, and then you're gonna pick it
up yourself, because this is one you're gonna recognize. It
(02:43):
needs to be added to your shelf and these are
conversations that need to be had. Sit back and strap in.
Doctor Sideltz, first and foremost, man, Welcome to people of distinction,
and thank you very much for being a guest. How
are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Oh so good, Benji, I say honor to be with you,
and I'm just I'm giddy. I'm looking forward to talk.
So yeah, let's jump in.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I appreciate it, man, Listen, I'm looking forward to it.
I think what you've done here is something that's needed.
I think so often we have these these these stereotypes,
these impressions that we place on ourselves on those around us.
And you know, honestly, man, it's it's unhealthy. For one thing,
and it really is unnecessary because I don't think that
(03:25):
there is just one particular way a man should be.
And I'm so looking forward to this discussion. First and foremost,
it's important, you know, so everybody knows who you are,
your background, and understand that you are equipped to handle
this discussion. Tell us a little bit more about yourself.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, sure, thing. So the past, I guess two decades
are sent as a minister, social worker, counselor and therapist,
adjunct professor, and now writer. I've been serving incarcerated men
and women the past decade. I hold a master's degree
in clinical counseling from Pacific and a doctorate in social
(04:02):
work from USC. This book has really taken about seven
years to get published, but it feels like a lifetime
to write, and so that's a little bit about me.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Love that. Well, listen, a lifetime to write because we're
ever changing, right, the ever evolving world around us, and
also as human beings, we're dynamic, right, We're evolving, we're changing.
So listen, it took exactly how long it needed to
take to be able to come to this amazing development.
I want to start, first and foremost from your perception,
(04:35):
given your experience, man, and it's almost an unfair question,
because I think it is it's very subjective. But how
do you define healthy masculinity in contrast to the traditional
Western concept of manhood and why is that shift necessary?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
An incredible question. I think one of the aims in
this book is exploring how men can become better stewards
of their pain. How do we own our shadows, those
things that we've not addressed or maybe even acknowledged, the
things we do not want to think or feel, the
things in us that we despise and have been running from.
(05:13):
So one of the questions I approached was how can
men approach these not in resistance, but how do we
open up to the discomfort. It's so that we can
become the men our families, our communities, and this country
frankly needs and have been waiting for. In such a
time as this, I think it's really too important for
(05:35):
us not to do the inner work, because if we
do not, we're going to see firsthand how reckless society
can become. So parts of the book I share about
my own personal story, my narrative, my trauma, my inner work,
and what it's been like diving into really the soul work,
the shadows and I kind of paint a picture of
(05:58):
what's it been like for me. I the last seven
years has been the very intentional my own meditation practice
in doing meditation retreats, silent retreats three to five days,
just listening within, blowing down, And really I'm learning a
lot of the messages that I received about masculinity. So
in some ways, how do I sit with the suffering
(06:20):
and to learn what a tender, compassionate and whole man
might look like.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, I love that doctor Siltz. I can't go anywhere else. Now, Man,
talk to us a little bit more about your particular
journey and what inspired you then to culminate everything into
this book.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Oh man, Well, the work started in Academia, I stayed
at USC and moved into a Greek piece about my
own father. He was diagnosed with glioblastoma, which is a
rare and extremely aggressive form of brain cancer, in twenty eighteen,
and he died in twenty twenty. Was never the same
(07:01):
after he died. He was and continues to be one
of my favorite men people and really was monumental in
writing this book. And I think the older I get,
the bigger his spirit grows in me. And so what
I've learned in my own grief was this concept of
gone in body but here in spirit has been an
(07:24):
important grief lesson for me. So really, writing this book
was a cathartic release and grief one of my healers
in a way.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Wow, well listen, man, first and foremost, thank you very
much for sharing such a personal aspect of your life.
And you know, people, listen. I know he's not looking
for the praise, but can we just stop and take
a second and examine how oftentimes, man, it's hard enough
for us to look at the mirror at ourselves, let
alone construct this window for others now to peer into
(07:58):
some of the deepest aspects of ours and try to
find themselves within it. Right, Because that's really what he's
doing here. By taking that leap of faith and showcasing himself,
we are now able to look at some of our
own vulnerabilities, to look at some of our own quote unquote,
you know weaknesses. And although you know again I say
(08:19):
purposely quote unquote, because they're not weak at all. But
it is a highlight that's going to lead into my
next question. This is something incredible and something so beneficial.
The book is called the Incredible Shrinking Men Dismantling the
patriarch Within by doctor Ryan J. Sideletz. You're gonna want
to head on over to Amazon, Barnes and Noble, a
whole host of other places. Check out Katabasis LLC dot
(08:42):
com as well as Psychology Today dot com to gather
more information. Doctor Sidlit's my next question when we're talking
about that quote unquote weakness, right, I'm curious to know
from your understanding, why do you think vulnerability is often
seen as weakness in men and how can in racing
that that vulnerability actually builds strength and resilience.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Oh man, that's a that's an incredible question. I think
the first the first thing, I think many times we're
not aware of men, of the actual messages we received,
even starting in kindergarten from five six years old, that
(09:26):
are just ingrained in the society, and I think add
to men deteriorating from the inside. So messages like big
boys don't cry, big boys doing show vulnerability, don't be
a mama's boy, a man of mentality even for our boys,
A pressure to grow up, even in in adolescents. This
(09:49):
reinforcing only aggression, domination, anger, and a rejection of the
feminine or just equality mindset, and then realizing transphobia and homophobia.
These are all messages that most boys, I would argue,
are ingrained at a young age, and I think it
(10:10):
really adds to this deteriorating from the inside. So I
would start there first. How do we acknowledge these social
norms first? And then we have to unpack and deconstruct.
And I think the deconstruction is what you voiced really well,
it's a painful, really intense journey then many times is
(10:32):
full of suffering and grief.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Doctor Sideletz, what would be one simple but powerful action
that you would say men can take today to start
and you know, really begin their journey towards emotional growth.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah. I think, man, this is not going to be
necessarily the fun work. But I think what men have
been avoiding so long, and the word suppressing just kind
of pushing down the shame, whether it's pain, suffering, like
I said, loss and grief, the heartache, the depression and regrets.
(11:13):
Embracing those important teachers are the actual pathways to healing
and growth. And so this idea of how do we
break open ourselves from the inside in the most meaningful
of ways, and in the words of many experts, teachers, gurus, rabbis,
(11:35):
this idea that suffering is actually grace, that our heartache
is actually avenues to freedom. The emotion that men have
been avoiding is the actual tool that can free them,
and it's already within them, So it's nothing external to pursue.
(11:56):
If we don't become better stewards of our pain, I
think we'll continue to cast large shadows on our loved
ones and communities. And so how do we start first
within and what we've been avoiding for so long? Again,
when I stay suppressed, it's really what are the things
that I've been hiding from that I do not want
to think or feel? Those are often that really the
(12:18):
tools to get us to a place of opening up.
And so I talk a lot about a breaking opening.
And again, this is not a happy light to work.
This takes intensive, intensive work. And so what I've really
learned is some of the most important life changing lessons
have grown out of my own deep suffering, such as
(12:39):
losing my father, one of my heroes, just an incredible guy.
And so it's through a lot of that pain that
really I was able to to kind of unpack that healing.
But it's incredibly uncomfortable, incredibly comfortable.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Well, you know, uncomfortable, but a necessary step in the process. Right.
And people again, remember, much easier said than done, and
I think it's important to acknowledge that ahead of time
and understand the work is there and needs to be done.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We can't skip steps, but your future self will thank
you because of it. My next couple of questions is
going to go into that community that we have around us,
and also tying into impart role models. Right. I know
you mentioned your father on a number of occasions now
and I understand listen as a very a young father
in the process. Myself my children are very young, but
(13:37):
I understand the monumental amount of responsibility that I have.
So my question now to you, doctor Sielitz, what role
does the community play in this in terms of not
only father figures in role models, but other men coming
together to foster this safe place and well being for
each other, to be able to build one another in that.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
So well stated, I think for me a couple things
and kind of the process of writing this book, and
this book would not have been written or published without
some incredibly important, beautiful male friendships that kept urging You've
got to get this out, You've got to put words
to your experience, to your pain. And so I think, honestly,
(14:23):
without that community, without my brothers that were really encouraging
and but incredibly understanding and allowing me to be vulnerable
when I needed to be and just let me be
where I was at. And so I think that was
a huge thing because the reality right now is again
part of the reason for the title of the book
(14:43):
was the met are down right now. It does not
look good for us right now, despite what we see
with many visible male leaders in the country. We're hurting
and we're aspiring to often many men that are not
the best examples. And so we have a half a
million men right now that are dying by suicide. We
(15:04):
have eighty percent of suicides in twenty twenty were men
in America. Men represent ninety three percent of the prison population.
So the tide must change. And so I think the
truth is that we need to stay down in the
realm of becoming vulnerable instead of using our power to
(15:26):
push people down. And so I think men can be
incredible despite our shrinking, and we can transform power to
lifting up those so many times we have traditionally devalued.
So I think about I think about this, I think
about my dad, and I think about face to older
(15:46):
men and the last time I was in the presence
of a kind, compassionate, attentive man, and what that felt like,
and just how safe it felt. And so I stick
with that emotion in those moments, because I think we
can be really incredible, even though it may seem like
we're shrinking. I think we can heal beyond the patriarchs.
(16:08):
So I think we have many men, young men right
now looking to fill this father boid, this father wound.
And again there's this void that we're all looking searching
to meet. And I think many men that I run
into are searching for the actual acceptance the love of
their father. And we're filling that void with all kinds
(16:30):
of things. And so and I think we look again,
like I said, to the external, when I think we
tend to forget, like what is within us, within the
soul is actually many times a place to start.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
You know, I love you. I love everything that you
just said, doctor Silas, but especially that last part. I remember.
You know, I'm sure I didn't start here with him,
but I'm gonna I'm gonna plug it because that's where
it laid the most impact on me. You know, one
of my favorite I'm a big hip hop guy and
one of my favorite rap artists is an artist J Cole,
(17:05):
and one of his songs he was talking about, you know,
true revolution happens within you, and he said that in
one of his songs, and I remember hearing it years
ago and thinking, you know when I at that time,
you know, it was probably in my early twenties or something,
and I was just in this period where I wanted
the world to kind of I was just expecting a
(17:27):
lot from outside sources. I was expecting more from others.
I was expecting more from from those that were around me.
And it finally hit me. And again, I'm sure he
wasn't the first to come up with it, and as
is so often the case, I probably heard it from
a family member, maybe even my parents. And you know
howadays you know your parents, like I'm realizing this with
my kids right now. I could say something to him
(17:48):
twenty times, and then somebody else will come and say
the exact same thing one time, and all of a sudden,
it's like revolutionary to them man, it's groundbreaking and opened
their eyes like, what the heck I just said that?
And anyways, welcome to father.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So I remember hearing this and it really stuck with
me because I realized at that point, you can't control
your outside sources, you know. I mean, you can control
who you keep around you, but at the end of
the day, you can't push them to do or not
do anything. So when you focus on within, focus on yourself, man,
(18:26):
that is where the true revolution really begins. And there
is so much power in wisdom in that. And you know,
because you said that, man, I had another question that
I wanted to go into, and it's so not important
in comparison, because I want to close out with this
next question. If we could issue a challenge, and I
use that word purposely because I do want it to
(18:49):
be a challenge for each and every person listening and
for each and every man listening in here. If you
could issue one challenge to men reading your book, what
would it be? Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I think I think writing this book and losing my
dad help me read a fine what home looks like?
And I used to think for me, home was a place,
a childhood house in space. And I've moved from a
(19:26):
place of home as out there or against a house,
to a space within me, really the soul. Valerie Cower
who writes Page Warrior, I love what she says because
she really just says it better than than I could.
We must find this a sovereign place within us and
(19:46):
create our home there. And so this idea, and she said,
build a sovereign place inside you, adorn it, explore it,
make it welcoming. And you don't need a lot of
time or money right now, right here, you can drop
in and imagine a beautiful and loving space inside you.
If we can make that space inside us, that's a
(20:11):
pull of an endeavor and incredibly difficult too, But I
think that that's the place to start. I think is
how do we again open up ourselves to the wound,
and then how do we move on to becoming again
better stewards of pain? So I think, if I had
to say one thing, I think, how do we how
do we go within and find the nurturing and the
(20:33):
safe space that we so need right now?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I love that people, you know, this has been This
has been such a gratifying conversation. And obviously I'm biased
because I'm a man. But still it's something that I
think has offered a lot of wisdom. But you know
what I love so much more than all of that
is listen, man, we've barely scratched the surface. There is
(20:57):
so much left in store. Now we cover some of
the highlights, but like I mentioned, this book is the precipice.
It is a movement and it is the catalyst for
change that we have all been searching for. And listen,
I know it's for men and that is primarily what
it's geared for, but a lot of women out there
listening in. There's a responsibility that you all play as well,
for your boyfriends, for your brothers, for your fathers, for
(21:19):
your husbands. You have a responsibility and all of this
as well, to be there to help cultivate the right
environment for them to be vulnerable. Because we know the
optimist in me is like listen, man, society is gonna
is gonna come around, and we'll develop that safe space everywhere.
Let's call a spade a spade. We're not quite there yet,
(21:40):
so it starts off with at that home base and
women out there listening in. Man, you have that responsibility
to play and cultivating that But like he said, it
starts with each and every one of us, So I'm
gonna say it again. The book is called The Incredible
Shrinking Men Dismantling the Patriarch Within by doctor Ryan J. Sidelitz.
It's Amazon, It's barn to Noble, but make sure to
(22:01):
check out his other two sites, Katabasis LLC dot com
as well as Psychologytoday dot com. This is an amazing
book and a wonderful resource that you want to add
to your shelf because I promise you, like I said,
this is more than a conversation, man, This is a
call to action for anyone ready to embrace a healthier,
more authentic version of themselves. Because I know I'm ready to.
(22:23):
Who's going to join me along on this journey? That's
the question. Head on over there, man, let's get started,
Doctor Sideless, this has been an absolute honor man, truly
a wonderful discussion. Thank you once again for being a
guest on People of Distinction.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
So much fun, Benji, so much doctor your mood man,
it's so good
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