S5E1-3 "Go Forward", "It's a Man, Man, Man, Man World", & "Typos and Torsos"

Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
Well hey there you, yes,I mean you have you just finished watching
an episode of your favorite television program, The Marvelous Missus Masel. Are you
looking for a podcast to enhance yourviewing experience, Well look no further Welcome
to Perfectly Marvelous. Join our hostsErica, Kara and Jade as they provide

(00:36):
you with hours of witty banter,behind the scenes, fun facts, and
oh so much more. Now,sit back, relax, and get ready
for a perfectly marvelous time and one, two three over Hill over Dale.

(01:04):
We will hit a dusty trail andthe case songs go rolling along. Good
evening, folks, comedy lovers,Welcome to the show. I'm Jade,
I'm America, and I'm Kara.And this is Perfectly Marvelous, a podcast
dedicated to the critically acclaimed Amazon Primeshow The Marvelous Missus Masl. Today we

(01:30):
are covering episode one, two,and three of the fifth and final season
why An. Episode one is titledGo Forward, Episode two was It's a
Man Man Man world An. Episodethree Typos and Torsos. And now,
without further ado, let's start theshow. All right, girls, you're

(01:53):
ready, tit's up, tit up, all I've this buvelous girl in my
and when living together and having amom. All right, the time has
come. I feel like I've waiteda lifetime for this. You know,

(02:14):
the fifth and final season of TheMarvelous Missus Masil has officially arrived, and
they gave us three fucking episodes allat once a day early Christmas in April.
Right, Um, just for ourlisteners, I know that it's marked
in you know, in your podcastfeed. This is an explicit podcast,

(02:35):
little ears. You know, listenat your discretion. Um. I just
wanted to say that off the topbecause I just realized I started us off
with a good fuck. But youknow, so yeah, right, there
was an interview with the with thecast and Rachel Brosen. They were asked,
what's your favorite curse word, andRachel Brosenhan said, there's nothing like
a good fuck. I don't know, that just popped into my brain anyway,

(02:59):
So, listeners, we decided thatbecause there have been four amazing seasons
already, doing a full recap ofeach season was just like it was just
too much to take on. Asmuch as I would love to, there's
just the time that that would take. You know, maybe in the future,
we can go back and you know, when we're nice and calm,

(03:23):
after we finished the fifth season andwe just start missing some masalum, we
can have another podcast of like arewatch of all the four seasons. I
would never be opposed to doing that, but as far as yeah, as
far as recapping goes right now,I just wanted to start this podcast by

(03:43):
talking about, you know, whywe love the show. I want to
ask you guys, looking back onseasons one through four, you know what
moments stand out to you? Whatdo you love about the show? Why
do you keep watching it? Charactersthat you love? You know. I
just want to hear what you guysthink and what brought you here to do
this podcast now? So Kara,let's start with you kick it off.

(04:08):
So basically, I think anything AmySherman Palladino I will watch. I loved
watching Gilmore Girls, and as soonas I heard about Missus Maisel, I
was like, I know I'm gonnalike this show, but I didn't know
I was going to love it asmuch as I do. And I think
just you know, kind of takingAmy Sherman Palladino off of Network TV and

(04:30):
getting a little bit more of acursing and some more adult themes definitely helped.
But I just I cannot get enoughof the interaction between Midge and Susie
and everybody else has just been akind of really pleasant surprise. So that's
what I love about it. It'sjust the comedic timing, the wit,

(04:53):
and all of the historical references,the esthetics of the show. I'm obsessed
with total I could put it onmute and just have it in the background
while I work, But it's justeverything about it and all the historical references.
Every time I understand one, Ijust kind of pat myself on the
back. So that makes me happy, I know. But let's see fave

(05:16):
characters. Is that something that youhad said? Yeah, I would love
to hear that. I think overall, Midge and Susie are kind of just
a given. But other than that, Tony Shalhoub is Abe is by far
my favorite. Like I could listento him talk about pretty much anything as
Abe. So I'm i already likeI had to stop myself from writing down

(05:42):
every single Abe quote from the firstthree episodes. So same, double same,
but double double goes for me.That was really hard and then let's
see favorite moments over the season orthe seasons. That was really hard and
I was putting a lot of thoughtto it doing my rewatch. But the
first season, I feel like it'shard not to pick either. Her initial

(06:06):
kind of appearance at the gaslight aftershe finds out about Penny Pan and is
you know, tits out at thegaslight and gets arrested. I was like,
I think that was just one ofthe best pilot episodes I've ever seen.
So season two, I think thefever dream of the Palladinos that was

(06:28):
the Cat's Skills, just the entiretyof that was amazing. But specifically I
think Susie's experience of the Cat's Skillsjust like walking around I can't remember what
she name. I was just it'sgoing to pop into my head when I
least expect it. Yeah, Likeand when they thought she was missing and

(06:48):
they find her and she comes backand she's just like, oh, like
you know, it was it wasrough out there, like Susie and the
Cat's Skills was probably my favorite.And then I think season three was one
of those where overall, I thinkthe cultural shift that we got to see
in season three moving out of thefifties into the sixties was probably my favorite.

(07:11):
That's kind of a cop out becauseit wasn't really a moment, it
was the whole season. But Ithought it was impactful. Oh yeah.
And then I had a hard timewith season four picking something out because I
really did enjoy Season four. ButI think the finale episode with Lenny kind
of calling Midge out, like whatthe fuck are you doing? Not doing?

(07:33):
You know? An opening act forTony Bennett, it kind of reminded
me of Jess coming in and talkingto Rory and Gilmore girls. I think
it was season six after she droppedout of Yale. It was kind of
like the whole why did you dropout of Yale translated to you know,
why did you turn this down?At Carnegie Hall opening for Tony Bennett.

(07:55):
So I thought it was kind ofa nice little wake up call, especially
because it's not just a man comingin and directing Midge where to go.
It's someone who truly sees her andyou know, appreciates her and her yeah,
and still funds her funny thanks foremost, Absolutely, that was a lot

(08:18):
of word vomit, But no,I could go on and on. Yeah,
I think those are the main thingsthat really have stuck with me.
Yeah, yeah, the years.Yes, I totally oh everything everything you're
saying, I'm like, oh,yeah, that was good too. Oh
yeah, that was That's one ofmy favorite. That's my favorite. Like,
oh man, it's so hard tojust yeah, like this, this
show would be so easy to justgush over for hours and days and weeks,

(08:43):
and yeah, I just wish Ihad more time to talk about every
season. I feel like in thefuture though, I can't help but not
go back. There's just it's justtoo good. This show is just too
good. It really. They're They'regood at callbacks, so I'm sure we'll
have plenty of things to pick out. Yeah, talk about ye all right,
Erica, what about you? Ihad the same problem, And I

(09:05):
feel like Karen might have pulled everysingle one of my favorite moments. But
that's okay because it's so lush andso full of so many things. But
um, you know, I Iam a Amy Sharon Pardino virgin to the
other shows I know about them.I feel like I get the you know,
the pop culture references to everything.I know who they are, I

(09:28):
to who Rorry is. But Iwas drawn to this because I love um
puery pieces. I love the aestheticsof the show. I love the color.
It just it like looks like amusical every time I watch it,
and I and I just love theone shots and and just the banter going

(09:48):
back and forth. It's just youcannot imagine how much work was put into
it to have that amount of dialoguewith no breaks, and it's just so
funny. And I tend not towatch comedies. I tend to watch more
drama or or like or like youknow, um, like what are we

(10:09):
watching, like all these zombie showsand different things fantasy, and then there's
this like marvelous missus meisl which isso not like what I'm typically watching,
and it's kind of a little bitof a breath of fresh air. It's
just it's lovable. But you're atheater person, yea, so that's why
you. I don't know any actorswho don't love this show. Yeah,
And I think that is. Iappreciate it so much. I appreciate the

(10:31):
craft, and I appreciate the everyaspect of the show, from the people
who do the dressing of the ofthe shows to the costumers, just every
single thing about it. It's justit's a beautiful, beautiful show. Um,
and it's and it's hilarious. Umgoing into like my favorite moments,
I'm like now I'm like, gosh, should I have to think about this?

(10:52):
But um, you know, justthinking about that very first episode,
the pilot of it, and justthinking about like where Mitch started from the
very beginning with her brisket and howshe was kind of playing the part of
the doting wife and like just youknow, scurring and supporting Joel and every
little thing, like backing him up, telling them what he should do,

(11:15):
and then like just what an assholeand arrogant and like, oh little man
ego it was to have that,like you know that what happens to at
the very end of it. ButI'm trying to think back of like other
things that happened, but I thinkI am always, of course John to
that that pilot episode that just kindof shows, right, not even the
rise and fall, but just likethis kind of like wow, this is

(11:37):
where she comes to and just howshe finds herself and how Susie finds her
and how they find each other.And it's beautiful. It's probably one of
my most beautiful love stories in cinematictelevision shows, ever Is Mitche and Susie.
Um. Yeah, Alex Borstein callsit a woman's instead, you know

(11:58):
how guys romance, Yes, andwe should say woman. It's a lot
so she gets a lot of theroyalties to I know. Yeah, it's
the credit for that one. Yeah, And I thought about season two.
Um. I also besides the Cat'sSkills, which was and I keep on
thinking about to the moment when she'sat the hotel and she's doing her present

(12:20):
and she's got a really big audience, Like I mean, really if you
think about how little time has passed, and she went from the guests like
to this big, huge audience andthe Cat's Skills at Oddell and then she
starts into this this set and shestarts talking and then she goes into its
extremely X rated conversation that goes intotalking about her papa when she notices Abe
in the audience, and you're justlike, the second hand embarrassment is so

(12:46):
deep in this show that I'm like, I'm like, oh no, I'm
like covering myself. I'm like Ican't handle this. But it was just
like when she gets discovered by herdad and then just kind of how she
has to kind of play into thatis it's pretty it's pretty relatable, like
when your your parents realize what youdo on a Saturday night. And then

(13:07):
um, and then of course Iknow Ju and I talked about this,
and I believe this is season twoand I hope, Um, when she
worked at b Dalton's was that seasonone or season two? My brain is
starting she worked at Balman's in bothseason or season Yeah? See, I
think it was the end of seasonone, beginning of season two, and
then she still had the job alittle bit into season three. I think

(13:28):
I have to watch rewatch it againbecause I did a second rewatch. But
that one scene where it just swoopsright into and you could see all the
different actors are just moving around.It's like choreographed and yeah, and they
hired yes, and that was all. It was a one er. It
was all in one day. Thatwas season two. Yeah, that was
the very beginning of season two,and it was just like that jaw dropped.

(13:50):
I love this show. That momentjust beautiful. Yes, it just
it took my breath away. Wasthat scene? Um, it's choreography,
it's Amy Sherman. You know shewas a dancer, um, and that
was her first That's was her firstlike art form, that's what she was
pursuing, you know. So everythingshe does has this rhythm to it.

(14:11):
Her writing is so rhythmic, andI feel like every chance they get to
incorporate musical numbers, music of anykind, and when it comes to stuff
like that, I remember they werelike hanging snowflakes in the window of b
Altman and and it was it's likeyou're watching a Buzby Berkeley esque Um old
school. They don't make shit likethis anymore kind of a musical intro,

(14:33):
you know. It feels like anMGM epic picture motion, you know,
like maybe in Saint Louis, where'sJudy Garland bring? Yeah, And they
referenced my Judy every time every chancethey get, and I'll love it.
I love it so much. Yeah, I know that was Judy was in
the trailer to season five, Andwhen I heard that, I was like,
this show they're they're speaking to usthere, They're like, this is

(14:58):
this was made for jess Us,right, yeah, yeah, I'm like,
um, Judy Garland a show madefor Jade. Like you give me
some Judy, you got me,you got me sold um. And then
in season three I had to thinkabout it because that that was that one
weird season. But I actually enjoyedit. But I think Mike was the
one weird season that season three whereshe's touring with Shy Shy, And then

(15:22):
I remember like when when Midge taughtSusie how to swim, all right,
because the suspenders and those pants andher just it just like the comedy and
again, you know, just justthe entire like you know, the Florida
set, Midge's hair. I totallyfelt that because like, humidity is my

(15:45):
biggest enemy too, But when shetaught Susie how to swim, I'm like,
this is it, this is Itwas just amazing. And there's an
interview. There's an interview where theyboth talk about shooting that and how miserable
it was for both of them becausethey're both so paid ste white and they
were just they were like, wegot scorched that day. And and I
guess, um, Alex Sporstein waswearing wool pants, like they took these

(16:11):
pants and she said it was heridea to be like let's just cut the
these shorts or these wool suspender whateverpants into shorts and I'll wear that as
my bathing suit. And she's liketwo seconds into it, I was like,
big mistake. Why did I suggestthis? Because mistake swimming in wool
pants like that? Like how uncomfortablemust that be? And then it's so

(16:33):
funny because she was supposed to getsunburned really bad in that episode and she's
like, oh, I got sunburnedlike terribly. And she's like, and
I feel really bad for the backgroundactors because we were constantly you know,
taking breaks and slathering us with umwith sunscreen, but like, no one
cared about the background actors. Theyjust fried in the sun. I'm like,
I I can imagine that. Yeah, sorry, no, that's no,

(16:55):
that's injecting. No, the interjectingis great because it just feeds because
again, like there's so much ontedand so many amazing moments that I'm like,
how do I pick one? Um? When I went into season four
and again like the that was aweird season two season, yeah, but
there was something there was like Iloved the Waldorf, I loved how Midge
fixed it. I loved how Lennyand Image's relationship kind of built up and

(17:19):
they just weren't giving us fan serviceby having them sleep with each other like
right away. But the moment Ikeep one like kind of going to is
when Abe got out of the carand he spun with that cape. That
cape was a canine of its ownape, and that and that whole scene
that just like that like led intolike the demise of their of of that

(17:41):
that young playwright. And then howthey were like kicked out of the bar
Mits fight. It's just like thatwhole little scene and kind of went to
that that was like it was hilarious. Um, but yeah, his cape.
I need a cape. I needa Twilight Ape. And then I
remember there was a moment where hewhere they had to walk out, Um

(18:02):
they where I can't remember what itwas. Oh, it was at the
all the Jewish people were angry atAbe because he wrote the bad review about
the Coach play. Yeah yeah,and they he got rose and they walked
out all together and everyone was lookingat them. Um, I think it
was a yeah, it was outof our mitzvah, and um, he
goes, God, I wish Ihad my cape. It was so funny.

(18:23):
And then yeah, I mean Ilike just like the where they're going
at and even so, like Iwas, I had no idea what we
were gonna see when I watched episodeone of season five, but then that's
something we're going to segue into anyway. Yeah, so what about you,
Jade was, let's let's see whatyou can add to well. Oh gosh,

(18:44):
so I want to echo you know, both of what you guys said.
For sure, I love this showbecause it is theater. It is
theater on film, Like I said, it's like an MGM musical that we
just don't get that doesn't it doesn'tget made anymore. Music icles are so
different now. There have been veryfew films that have come out that I'm

(19:04):
like, man, that is classicHollywood stuff right there going on, you
know, it comes to the topof my mind. Is like the film
The Menu, which is super controversial. I know a lot of people thought
that that was weird, a lotof people didn't like it. I was
constantly reminded of how much this feelslike classic Hollywood, that film, And
as much as I didn't like partsof it, I guess there's like there's

(19:26):
an essence to it, that isit pays homage to the great films,
you know, like Casablanca, andand you know what I'm trying to say
is shows that can know where they'rewhere it came from. God, I'm

(19:48):
articulating myself terribly right now. It'slike my moment and I'm just like tripping
all over my words. What Imean is um Amy Sherman Palladino and her
wife, her wife, her husband, and Daniel Palladino. They have such
respect for film, and they havesuch respect for classic film actors and the
writing. What I mean is likeyou just you don't see writing like this,

(20:11):
and you don't see epic quality stufflike this on television made all the
time, the attention to detail,like you were saying, Erica about the
sets New York. I just loveNew York anything based in New York.
I live in New York, whichis you'd think that I would want to
escape from that, but no,I just especially in New York in the

(20:32):
fifties sixties, they do such agood job of capturing that it transports me
and as an actor myself. Listeners, Sorry, I'm going to be talking
a lot about acting stuff. I'mgoing to be talking a lot about behind
the scenes stuff. I'm gonna beI'm gonna say the word the sentence.
As an actor, I'm going tosay that a lot, So get used

(20:52):
to it the perspective that I'm goingto bring. Yeah, So I have
a hard time. A lot oftime I'm getting lost in what I'm watching
because I'm constantly thinking, oh,how that's acting right there. I can
see them acting. I can almosthear the pages of the script flipping in
the background. You know, youcan tell that things are done on a

(21:14):
set. You can tell that,oh, look at that background actor.
I get so distracted, and it'svery hard for me to totally just get
lost in something and immersed in itand believe what I'm seeing. And this
show does the impossible in the waythat it takes something so heightened and so
absurd and so like what that wouldnever happen, And I completely believe that

(21:34):
this is actually the truth, thatthese people are real. You know,
it's I don't know how they doit. So, Yeah, that costumes
the attention to detail with the backgroundactors, the script, and of course
the amazing chemistry between the actors,especially Susie and Midge and Abe and Rose,
and this show. As an actor, it makes me want to act.

(21:56):
It inspires me so much. SinceI've start rewatching the show to get
ready for this podcast, I havegotten more work than I have in months.
And I think it's because in theback of my mind, I've got
this driving motor kicking me in thebutt, going like, come on,
Rachel Brosenhan can do it, Comeon, Jade, let's go. You

(22:18):
know, like she's I'm the sameage as she is, and it's like
I have this such intense love forher and at the same time this actor
jealousy of her, like of thewhole cast, you know, like I
want that. I want to beon a show like that. You know,
hopefully soon they're gonna be your drive. They're gonna make you go forward.
It really is. This show inspiresme. It really it inspires me

(22:40):
as an artist, and I it'sI never tire of it, you know,
I could watch it over and overand over again. So getting to
a couple of my favorite moments,I want to play for you a little
clip from season one because I wasgonna try to like transpose it and then
say it because I love, youknow, saying great lines myself. But

(23:03):
the Sophie Lennon moment from season oneThis is probably my favorite moment, that
whole scene with Sophie Lennon where Midgegoes to her house and Sophie starts,
you know, really picking Midge apartand kind of shattering her image of you
know, you need a stick,you know, what's your what's your um,

(23:26):
what's your angle? You know?I got my fat suit and I'm
Sophie from Queens and like, whatdo you do? And she goes,
I'm just me, Like I'm literally, that's my stick? Is I'm me?
And Sophie's like, oh, that'snot gonna work. You know,
you gotta you gotta have a gimmick. And she goes, well, Bob
Hope doesn't have a gimmick, andshe goes, he has a dick.
You gotta dick. And you cansee Midge's like world kind of shifting and

(23:49):
shattering and changing, and Sophie reallyjust blows her mind. And what Jane
Lynch does in that hole, whatJane Lynch does with that whole character is
it's epic, you know, Butthis is, uh, this is my
favorite part. I remember very vividlywatching this scene with my mama and after

(24:10):
we had both fallen it completely inlove with the show and we were just,
you know, binging the crap outof it, and this scene came
up and we both died laughing atthis moment and we immediately had to play
it over again. So hopefully youcan hear this. Let me turn it
up. Okay, this is itterrific. I'd love to see the kitchen

(24:32):
a kitchen, really why? BecauseI love kitchens, really kitchens why they're
neat To be honest, I haven'tbeen in on a kitchen in quite some
time. I'm on the road,I'm upstairs, but if it means that
much too, we'll find it.Really kitchens why. I don't know why

(25:03):
that tickles me so much. I'mon the road, I'm upstairs, but
if it means that much to you, we'll find it. I just I
can't. There are no words theway she fucking delivers that. Man,
it killed me. It killed me. So that's my favorite moment of I
think that that is my favorite momentof the entire show. And I don't
think I don't think anything's going totop that. Really kitchens why just gets

(25:30):
me? Um? So that's myfavorite moment from season one and season two.
I think the best moment is thatfamily dinner, that Young Kapoor dinner
in episode seven. They do thesefamily dinner scenes so well. They do
it again in season four, episodethree, right after Jackie dies, and

(25:51):
and Susie's at the dinner with herwhole family and her pj's and Zelda's crying
because she didn't make enough squash,Like Zelda, why are you crying?
And I didn't make enough squash.I'm just so happy. Oh god,
but you're great. That even thedinner with um when they thought the one
coworker the one that died, andthey made all of the soft food.

(26:12):
But yeah, oh my god,yes, oh yeah, oh yeah,
you're so right. I think wecould talk about all their family dinners.
Yeah, but that that Yanka poordinner where Midge is trying so hard to
come out as a as a standup and and Zelda keeps wanting to come
in and out with her, andshe's like, I spend all day,
all my day cooking this meal andshe's just just sitting there turning to nothing

(26:36):
like and and um Moistia is justlike heckling the crap out of Midge,
Like tell a joke, one joke. Yeah, I'm I'm sorry, but
that joke is a stinker, likeyou're just not very funny, Like he
just refuses to believe that Midge isfunny, and um, Asterrid is just
being astrid. I mean that wholescene As an as an actor, I'm
watching this just like with my mouthon the floor or just so giddy with

(27:02):
excitement. You know, well,I think that's something too. Like Amy
Sharon Palladino like family dinner scenes.You think to Gilmore Girls, like everything
with Kelly Bishop and Lauren Grett,like all of that is just so spot
on. Whatever they've done, theyfigured out how any family dinner, family
dinners. Yeah, Gilmore Girls,that was a huge thing. Yeah,

(27:23):
yeah, yea, And she lovesAmy Sharman Palladino loves food on on camera,
which I know as as an actorhaving done a lot of food scenes.
It's like it looks so good.I love watching food scenes. You
know, I don't know why.I think a lot of people do,
um, but but acting them isit's you dread it, you'd dread it.

(27:45):
But anyway, um, yeah,that that whole scene was. I
mean, go back and if youcould, if you can only rewatch one
thing from season two, let thatbe it Um and season three was Yeah,
it was crazy season. There wasa lot of like unique and experimental
camera work in episode like five andsix. I remember they did that Loco

(28:07):
a More music video and then thatbuzzby Berkeley synchronized swimming thing. They did
a lot of really grand just hugedance numbers, and they used the camera
in such cool ways. They werereally I mean they were getting more money
obviously, and like there was anexample that I can think of when in

(28:29):
episode eight when Imagine was walking downthe street of New York in a crowd
to the song feeling Good and itwas like slow motion. Imagine was like
walking dead straight to the camera whenshe was going to be a type going
to secretary school. And I thinkthat probably my favorite moment though, because
my favorite character is Marin Hankel asRose. I just this woman. I

(29:00):
die for her. I need thespin off with Aban Rose. I mean
Tony Shaloub too, But if Ihad to choose a favorite character, I
feel like it's Rose every time.For me. Everything she does, this
woman just gets me. Man.I feel like I relate the most to
her character. Oddly, I don'tknow, even though I'm nothing like Rose,
there's so much of Rose that I'mlike, oh, I see myself

(29:21):
in you. I don't. Idon't know, even though I'm so not
a Jewish mother, Like, Idon't know. But when she fangirls over
Shy Baldwin and she gets trashed,it is very hard to act drunk.
It is very very hard, andshe does it so well when she's like,
I love you Shy Baldwin. Ohmy god. And season four best

(29:45):
moment. I think that episode three, the episode might be my favorite episode
of the series. When Susie goesto work with Rose at the tea room
after the which he dies. Yeah, yeah, and she gets the whipped
cream and Susie and I could justeat it. Doesn't have to go on

(30:07):
anything. That's right, Rose Weissman, I would follow you into hell.
That won't be necessary. And thenthey call that back. Obviously we'll get
to that, but yeah. Anepisode three is when they go to the
theater and abe, where's that capethat's in there too? Oh my gosh.
And another great moment is when Rosemy Marin Hinkle is she's doing she's

(30:27):
hypnotized doing Midges stand up act.That good was incredible. So I have
a lot of favorite moments from seasonfour. I don't remember loving season four
the first time I watched it asmuch as I couldn't believe how much I
loved it on rewatch, I waslike, Wow, this is better than
I remember for someone. I don'tknow why I didn't it didn't hit me

(30:48):
or I don't remember that it hitme really when I watched it the first
time. But I thought season twowas my favorite. I guess season two
is my favorite season as a whole. But season four has so many of
the best moments, even though it'sa very podcaster development and in relationships change
and yeah, yeah, and thenI guess I gotta just honorable mention everything

(31:11):
Sophie Lennon Jane Lynch does when sheplays Miss Julie, that whole Miss Julie
storyline, Oh my god, itkilled me. And then there's obviously when
the scene with Alex Borstein when sheyells at Sophie and kind of dumps her
on the sidewalk outside the theater afterSophie blows it on stage, that was

(31:33):
just an incredible piece of acting.So I could go on and on about
my favorite, you know, myfavorite parts of this show. But yeah,
I feel like we should move onto the main event here, you
know, and start talking about seasonfive. I So, okay, I
just first of all, I justwant to say I feel very blessed to

(31:55):
be here with you two ladies.I feel like we didn't really introduce ourselves
very well at the top, butyou're going to get to know us listeners
as we continue on. So we'regoing to skip all the formalities for this.
We're just going to dive in becausewe got so much content to get
through and I don't want to makethis an eight hour podcast, even though
it'll probably be close to that.So yeah, so let's dive in.

(32:20):
Let's start talking about season five.Yay. So I just want to say
at the top here something I wasreally inspired to do for this podcast,
and a big reason why I wantedto do this podcast is I love research.
I love That's why I'm an actor. I love to research characters and
times, period pieces, you know, New York in the late fifties,

(32:40):
early sixties. Two. I absolutelycan't get enough of the comedy scene and
the real life inspiration behind the charactersthat we're seeing. You know, I'm
loving all of this stuff. Sothat's what you could expect on this podcast
listeners for sure. In this episode, however, I found I found myself
continually needing to mind myself to justfocus on the content of these first three

(33:02):
episodes so that it doesn't go mytime is more wisely used, and so
that the episode isn't too long.And we only got these three episodes a
few days ago, and we kindof made the executive decision to cover all
three at once so that we cango week to week with everyone else with
all the listeners. So I didn'thave as much time as I would have

(33:22):
liked to properly research the backstory ofthe characters. And there's just so much
content out there, so many greatinterviews, a lot of news articles.
So all of that stuff is goingto be definitely come and atche in later
episodes, But for this episode,I just for me, in my notes
and everything, I'm mostly going tofocus on just the show itself. And

(33:43):
in the future, when we haveonly one episode at a time to talk
about and it's you know, wehave time, it's going to feel much
more chill. We'll definitely be incorporatingas much behind the scenes news and interviews
in real history of New York andthe comedy scene, all of that as
much as possible. So that beingsaid, let's start with episode one,
Go Forward, written and directed byAmy Sherman Palladino, the one and only

(34:07):
uh and So we're going to kickit off with a little segment I like
to call the most marvelous moment.Isn't that marvelous? So let's start with
Erica marvelous. What's your most marvelousmoment for this first episode? You know,
I don't know if this was Amy'sintention, but when the episode started,

(34:31):
I thought I had the wrong showon. I'm like, what is
right with my prime this? I'mlike, what is this? This girl's
wearing a ramone shirt and then likeI just kind of started hearing the cadence
of her voice and just some mannerismsand even the way she looked, and
I'm like, and then he calledher esther, and I'm like, oh

(34:52):
my god, we went time travelingand had a huge major time dump,
what twenty years or so? Yeah, to a twenty five year old esther
in her therapy session with some majormommy issues which we've all been talking about
for years. Of that, Midgeis not mom of the Year, but
that's okay. I totally get asa working mom, you know, you

(35:15):
got that pair and guilt sometimes.But yeah, it definitely had some effect
on her, her kiddos. UM. Just some things I kind of like
recognize was the fact that um andI think of the actor and I apologize
if I if I had her namewrong. Let me see if I had
it here, I did it?Write it down? Alexandra's Soca or No?

(35:37):
I think I wrote her name wrong. I'm not to look for that.
Who does she play? She playedEsther? Oh yeah, yeah that
yeah, Alexandra Socha or Soca.Yeah good, I'm glad. I'm I
thought I might have wrote it wrong, but I thought that she must have
studied and studied and studied, becauseI I was like kind of just like

(35:59):
the whole time, I think myjaw was on the floor. I'm like,
what am I watching? When amI experiencing? The show just started,
and I'm like so overwhelmed and justlike so completely confused. I felt
like I was esther for a minutebecause she is like so high anxiety,
like abe on speed. Yeah,just like going all over a mile a

(36:21):
minute about her troubles, her struggles, her needs for some meds, but
how brilliant she is. She's anMT, she's Nazis begging for her to
come, and her therapist pretty muchreally has a good hand on her just
to kind of see like what sheneeds. But I was just really taken
it back by that, like justslap in the face, like bam,

(36:45):
here's a time jump. Who isthis person? And kind of like it
was a little uncomfortable, but itdidn't feel like an episode. But then
again, I feel like all thetime jumps made me really uncomfortable and felt
like it took me out of theshow a little bit, but it was
it was definitely, yeah, definitelyan interesting, crazy moment, and I

(37:05):
liked it much better on second watchbecause I was really just so like overwhelmed
by the change, and I wasoverwhelmed and a little nervous to be out
of nineteen sixty. It was justdifferent totally. It caught me very off
guard. But I was stunned atthe way that Alexandra Alexandra Soka socha.

(37:25):
I'm honestly, I should have researchedhow to say her name. I hate
I hate knowing that I'm saying anactor's name wrong. So I'm probably saying
wrong, but I can't believe howmuch she reminded me of Midge, how
she caught like she They could nothave picked a more perfect this is her
daughter. At first, I waslike, wait, is that Rachel Brosley

(37:46):
had I'm like, wait, whatwhat am I watching? I couldn't.
Yeah, it was it was crazy, just the way everything her voice,
her facial expressions, it was perfectcasting perfect well. I think she'd picked
up a lot of Tony Shalhou too. Yeah. And it's funny because she
said I think it was like aone liner. Abe was the one who

(38:07):
she could talk to. Grandpa wasthe only one she could talk to.
Yeah, And I was just like, this is so good already, Like
she just embodied them perfectly, perfectly. But I definitely want to talk more
about that scene. Yeah, that'swho. Yeah, and you know,
and I know this is jumping upa little bit, but this episode is

(38:28):
called go Forward, and they literallyhad us go forward twenty years. But
even I don't know if it wasan episode two or three. I apologize
is that even though I really hatethat they they they aged esther so much
in this time jump. In theyounger esther, She's just I mean,
wasn't Esther like a year old andnow for your away children age on television

(38:50):
and they got a whole another actorto play Ethan because that kid, he
was getting way too big for awhile. You can't be a kindergartener anywhere.
But I just I'm thinking about thatscene. It's just kind of the
like, kind of like the typeof person Esther is really as a young
young child to this you know,this adult is that when Midge took her
and put her in bed with her, which I was like, oh,

(39:13):
I have totally done that, andEsther is like, forget that, went
right back into her bed. It'slike as young as that, you could
see that there was this there wasthis real um rift in there, the
relationship that started as even as youngas as she was back then. Yeah,
what were your thoughts on a Karaon that whole Esther scene? Oh

(39:37):
gosh, I well, we'll getinto that first. Let's you Mary's moment
stick up there, because that's likeI will talk about that for a while
for sure, But for marvelous moment. I had a hard time with this
one because you know, it's there'sso many to pick from, but I
decided to just go with the onethat made me laugh the loudest, and

(40:01):
with Asterrid sometimes like I feel likeher lines, like they they're just like
little throwaway lines here and there,and if you don't like pay that close
attention, I'll miss them. Butwhen she is taking care of was it
him? The babe, the baby, and it's like, you know there,
it's all kind of hectic and frenetic, and there's a pause like a

(40:24):
dead spot, and then she justgoes, how often do you all cry?
As I lost my shit that Ifelt that what I was like,
oh, Astrid, but like itmade so much sense, and the way
she delivered it was just perfect.I just I was really happy to see
her back. Yeah, Astroid displayedby Justine Lupe, and she kills me.

(40:49):
The way that she talks is sofunny. The way she says things,
Um, when she said, don'tworry, Daddy isn't abandoning you,
don't be scared. She has thiscartoony kind of voice. You know that
everything she says is so funny.And there's something that she said to Abe
which was almost my favorite moment,when she said something like I don't think

(41:12):
I don't think so or she saidsomething about what she thinks, and Abe
goes, yes, but you arenot a great thinker. Yeah, that
was great. Abe is just likeover Astrid. Yeah, Astrid is.
Astrid is having a time of beingbeing a new mommy. She wanted it
so bad and now that she hasit, she's like, ahh yeah,
I can't wait to see more ofher. Um, okay, so real

(41:36):
quick, my, My most marvelousmoment is right at the top. Susie
gets that phone call from Rose,which I love that Rose. I am
so here for Rose and Susie's relationship, Like, I love it so much.
It is they're giving me exactly allthe things that I want every time
they have Susie and Rose together.Um. And so Susie gets his phone

(41:58):
call. She gets and we allknow how much Susie hates being woken up
too early in the morning, youknow. And she goes, God,
David, who convinced she's like wrappedin her top sheet? And she's like,
whoever convinced me to use a topsheet? And she answers the phone
and Rose says, Miriam is veryill, and she goes, no,
she doesn't get it till the fourteenthI haven't marked on the calendar, and
she's got like a big red circlearound the fourteenth, like when, which

(42:22):
I think is funny because also theshow came out on the fourteenth, or
it actually came out on the thirteenth, But I don't know that was intentional,
but obviously wasn't intentional. But Ilove that. Uh. Yeah,
Susie is keeping track of Midge's period. Just these little details of their relationship
that are so fitting, so perfect. It's funny, You're marvelous moment and

(42:43):
ericas like it kind of made mewonder if they put those together on purpose.
With the phrasing of that that Idefinitely feel like we could go into
once we get more into the episode. Yeah, so let's start getting into
the episode. We're gonna let's juststart with the mid storyline, I guess,
and that time jump. We openup the first episode in nineteen eighty

(43:06):
one. Ester's in therapy, sheis going to med school. She kind
of hates her mom in the sameway Midge hates Rose. And yeah,
so let's hear Kara, what didyou think of this whole time jump world?
I just one, I thought itwas fantastic that Esther was in therapy,
because of course she is. Andin the you know, the Amy

(43:27):
Sherman Palladino, in the Palladino's universe, I feel like there's such a kind
of funny tendency to neglect the children, yeah, and the emotional and mental
well being of the children. Sothe fact that Esther's in therapy was just
kind of perfect for me. ButI thought it was interesting how she's talking

(43:47):
about She's sitting there trying to workon a molecular kinetic sequence to figure out
how to use DNA mutations to changethe trajectory of disease. And right at
the end of of you know,her therapy sequence, it cuts to this
opening with Rose calling Susie and sayingMidge is very ill or Miriam's ill,

(44:08):
And I was like, I wonderif that's a little bit of foreshadowing for
the future. Good one, goodcall. Yeah, it was just that
whole therapy scene just it made mefeel like the Palladinos are a little more
aware of, you know, whatwe all think about their treatment of children
in their shows. Oh they're soyeah, Yeah, it makes me so

(44:30):
happy. But I was like,of course Esther's in therapy, and Ethan
is essentially you know, as wesee later out there doing his own thing,
that's probably his own form of therapy. But yeah, yeah, and
I have thoughts about that that too. I haven't fallen in love with this
whole flash forward thing yet. Idon't. I don't. I don't love

(44:51):
it, I have to say,and I think it Maybe it's because I
want to have my hopes. Letme have my hopes and dreams please,
and by by show me so muchof the future. It almost, I
don't want to say, like itruins the show. It doesn't, but
it I'm thinking to myself, Oh, maybe this is gonna happen. Well,

(45:12):
no, I know that's not goingto happen because I've seen a flash
forward so obviously this is what's tocome. And oh God, I think
it's just because I don't it's notwhat I wanted for Midge so much.
I mean, we're going to getthere in episode two, but sticking with
just episode one what we have herewith Esther, I think it's it's strange
to start it off with Esther because, like you're saying, this whole show

(45:35):
is kind of built around this runningjoke of the kids don't matter. There
these two are the worst parents,and it's in interviews with Rachel Brosnahan and
uh oh gosh, now his nameis escaping me. Sagan. I know
his last name is Sagan, MichaelSagan. Is that his name, Michael
Sagan? Yes, they have saidin interviews that they are these two are

(45:55):
the worst parents and if this weremodern day, probably they wouldn't have had
kids. They probably shouldn't have hadkids. And yeah, it's a big
joke that like no one cares aboutthe kids, and they spend zero time
with their children and they pawn themoff on babysitters and Aban Rose and even
Aban Rose like Abe kind of hatesthe kids. He's like I can't even

(46:15):
pretend to care, you know,I just go away and Rose. Yeah,
like, what kind of mother waswas she? What kind of relationship?
She doesn't have a very strong bond. It doesn't well, I don't
know. I mean Midge, Midgekind of I feel like she at the
beginning of the show aspired to beRose. But they have this contention between

(46:37):
them, you know, so Ithink it's it was odd to me that
we got esther all of a sudden, because I haven't grown at all to
care about her over four seasons,just the opposite. I've I've made it
a thing in my mind to justkind of like disregard Esther and Ethan,

(46:58):
and that's the funniest of it.And so it got a little too serious
for me and a little too real, and I'm like, why why are
beginning with this? You know?But I did love so much of it,
because she's quite the chip off theold block, you know, just
like Midge, is so like Rose, and it's such a big part of
the show that Midge and Rose areso much alike, but they can't see

(47:20):
eye to eye ever, but they'rethey're so similar they have they have so
much more in common than they wouldever admit, you know. And and
just like Midge, we see wesee Esther is very self important. She
makes no bones about how great sheis, you know, which is like
the very first episode we get ofMidge, she's giving that wedding speech and

(47:44):
she's like, who does things likethis? I do because I'm me,
And she's just shameless like self promotion. And that was shown like when she
grabbed a file off the therapist deskand writes on something that's not hers because
what she has to right. Isthat important? You know? So yeah,
anyway, I'm rambling at this point. But but it was surprising to

(48:07):
jump right into esther. Yeah,like I did the same thing that you
did. Eric. I was like, did I hit the wrong show?
I was like, what is happeningright now? Well, and it's the
same show. This is the onewhere Midge says, you know, the
kids can go fuck themselves. Yeah, that was that was like, oh
my god. And then and theywon't know, they will they will not.

(48:30):
I was just like, it isan interesting choice. Like I'm kind
of curious to see how it playsout more in this season because it's just
it does feel completely out of nowhere. Yeah, and I'm open, I'm
open. I'm an open mind.Yeah. Yeah, I don't hate it,
but I don't love it. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of taking

(48:51):
us out of the fantasy, likewe I mean, at least myself personally.
I know Midge is not one hundredpercent the most likable character, but
she's very flawed. Um. Sheshe has her heads up in the clouds
a lot and often, and she'svery kind of positive and very driven.
But yet like you know, andI don't know, I know this is

(49:12):
kind of going to a different point. But like I think that there's there
are times where she does recognize thatshe's made a mistake and tries to make
those amends. And I'm and I'mglad for it because that that's a big
problem, Like she's made some awfulchoices throughout the seasons and you know,
but but it's okay to make mistakesas long as you recognize and you try
to, you know, either betteryourself or make amends. But but uh,

(49:37):
I don't know if that's kind ofme the oversight of what she's trying
to do with her kids now.But yeah, I agree with you Jade
though, Like I was like,I'm not too happy with this. I
want I want the beautiful, Iwant her her sitting dress, I want
those moments. Yeah, but Iwant happiness and silliness and and but it
was it was very dark, yeah, flame more of a dark turn or

(50:00):
our opening scene. Yeah yeah,I know. Every time those opening scenes
come up and it's a flashback,I get a little like I not cringe,
but like I kind of like watchinglike through my fingers. I'm like,
I don't know that I want toand then rewatching it because I did
get to rewatch all of these episodeson the rewatch. I was kind of

(50:21):
like I could feel my my excitementdiminished when I had to rewatch that flash
forward. But anyway, moving onto what else is going on with Midge.
When we do get back to thesixties, she's suffering from hypothermia and
how and why that was a fuckinglong ass walk in the snow? Like
was she just frozen in front ofthat billboard? Like how does? I

(50:43):
don't know? I mean, Iguess if you're improperly dressed and you got
those you know, shoes on,that don't you're standing in the snow.
But it feels like you'd have tobe in the snow for a really long
time to get hypothermia, and likehave your toes turned black? Like I
believe she said she said she couldn'tfind a cap, so she walked town.
So, I mean, I'm notsure how far Carnegie Carnegie Hall is

(51:04):
from a part of the West Side. Yeah Far's yeah, that gives us,
gives us a little bit walking theseals in a snowstore of us far.
Yeah, And I also wanted toask you this, and I know
this is I don't want to goof us on a tangent. I'm like,
that's a heck of a blizzard forNovember, yeah, in New York.
Because I'm like, I don't knowif we've ever had such a blizzard

(51:27):
in the East Coast at Lisa,that part of the East Coast didn't that,
but but whatever, it's okay.I was very confused with the time
frame. I'm like, wow,that looks like there's like, you know,
a good like six inches on theground. Well, and it's hard,
it's gonna be hard for me tofight bringing up all of the palladinoisms.
But there's at least so many things. Well, there are so many

(51:49):
parallels with Gilmore Girls that just keeppopping up. Like I'm half expecting Midge
to end up in therapy with Estherbecause in a Year in the Life and
Gilmore Girls, that was a thingthey explored with you know, the mothers
and daughter in therapy. But snowis also like this huge transformative event in

(52:10):
the Gilmour Girls universe a lot,and I couldn't help but think of that
in you know Mazel, where thisreally is a huge turning point for her.
She you know, had that kindof come to Jesus talk with Lenny
and get stuck in the snow,and now it seems like and she's finally

(52:30):
woken up. She's woken up.Yeah, and that's kind of the next
thing that she is that she goesinto with Susie. She wants that Tony
Bennett gig now, and Susie's like, yeah, that ship is sailed.
Glad that you're glad that you're coming, that you come to your senses.
But no, we ain't. Weain't getting that, she said. There
their second choices, ironing their showpants as we speak, like, yeah,

(52:51):
yeah, you have the chance towork with Tony Bennett. But you
know, we get the flash forwardlater and she did eventually get to work
with Tony Benett, So who didn'tshe get to work with? You know,
we'll get there. Yeah, butokay, so going forward with Midge
Lenny, we have this orgeous scenewith her and Lenny in this orange hallway
at the airport. God, thatwas beautiful to look out. That was
so cool, so cool. Ithink, you know, if I can

(53:13):
never have an opportunity to go throughthe TWA and stay there because I know
it's a hotel now, but thatis it was so beautiful and they're playing
till there was you and it wasa gorgeous scene. I agree with you.
Yeah, yeah, any the chemistrybetween those two, like I felt,
for whatever reason, like more thanany other moment. I think in

(53:36):
the first episode seeing them talk,I felt so sucked in and I was
just like, yes, it wasjust and knowing I think, you know,
the historical background of Lenny Bruce,like once he's goes off to the
West Coast and lives in LA andgets unfortunately deeper and deeper into addiction in

(53:57):
him. Kind of parting from hermade me really upset. I was like,
I can't cry. I was like, this is not going to happen
this early on in this show.I know, but it just I don't
know. And they seem so realwith each other. Yeah, that's always
impactful watching them on screen. LukeKirby does such an incredible job with that
role, such a difficult job.What an undertaking. Oh my god,

(54:22):
my all my respect in the worldto that guy. Seriously. There's a
cool video. I don't know ifyou guys have seen it. I think
I sent it to you. Yeah, I definitely sent it to you.
The comparison that someone did on YouTubebetween Luke Kirby and the real Lenny Bruce,
and you could just see how hehad the amount of work that he
must have put into that. Whata gift as an actor to get that

(54:43):
role because you must just be soscared. But as an actor when you
when you're scared, you often doyour best work. That's how I always
feel, because it's just this.These are the moments that you live for,
and these are the moments that youalways kind of secretly hope will happen,
but then when it does happened,you're like, fuck, this has
happened. Holy shit, how amI going to do this? And I
can only imagine like the balls onthis guy for for pursuing And when you

(55:07):
see him side by side with thereal Lenny Bruce and you see that he's
not doing an exact imitation. Heis making it his own, but he's
honoring so much of the truth ofLenny Bruce, it's just brilliant. Like
I could go on, you know, yeah, listeners search that on YouTube.
I'll actually I'll link it in theshow notes on that video because it's
truly amazing. It's even if youcan only watch part of it. It's

(55:29):
really cool. So yeah, okay, so we get this. Anything else
you guys wanted to say about thatmoment before we move off of it,
because I know that Lenny, You'regoing to come back, right like he
has to. Yeah, he's comingback, I hope. So if that
very it felt like there are kindof like like you know, closing some
butt buttlines, like you know,here I are not not communely, but

(55:52):
I hope not. I hope not. So I hope that we don't.
We don't just here. I reallythis is what I really hope doesn't happen,
and I hope that Midge doesn't.One day soon after we get a
couple of years of a time jump. I don't know if they're going to
how closely they're going to honor hisactual real life. But he didn't have
that many more years left, youknow, in real time. So this

(56:14):
is nineteen sixty one. There's onlylike five more years to play around with
of life for the real Lenny Bruce. So I hope that the next thing
we see with him is not aMidge picks up a newspaper and sees the
tragedy. I really hope that hedoes come back because you know, we're
getting this departure of him. He'sgoing off to spend some time with his

(56:35):
daughter, and Midge has been wokenup by her talk with him. It
feels like they both learned something fromeach other. Yeah, because you remember
Lenny Bruce and I do kind ofwant to talk about this. Hopefully it's
not too in detail and too offtopic, but that that weird moment where
Lenny woke up in Midge's apartment whenshe like plucked him off the sidewalk at

(56:58):
the end of one of the episodesin season four, and then he wakes
up and he like freaks out andhe's like, I don't like kids.
I don't want to be around kidsand all these the potty training song and
like what the fuck is going on? And he liked, I was like,
why are you reacting? So it'sbecause he doesn't want to think of
Midge as a mom. He doesn'twant to He wants her to be the

(57:20):
dark Seed comic you know, girlthat he has a thing for. And
it's like he has a real aversionto being a daddy and having seeing Midge
as mommy, And it feels likeMidge feels the same way too, you
know, but Midge has kind ofshe's a mom, like it's built into

(57:44):
her. This is kind of thisis a part of my life. I've
accepted it up until not very longago. She thought that this was her
life, like being a mom.She's going to be rose, you know.
But um, it feels like nowhit, the time that he is
with Midge has taught him Okay,maybe I do want to be a dad.

(58:05):
Maybe I shouldn't, you know,just yeah, keep on running away.
Yeah. So when I thought itwas interesting too, like when he
when they first run into each otherand he kind of starts to apologize almost
for not you know, calling orreaching out after they slept together, and

(58:27):
she goes, you know, no, no, we don't, we don't
do that. I read an articleor it was a portion of an interview
with Rachel Brosnahan, and she saidshe saw that as Midge being embarrassed at
you know, their last interaction,like she was embarrassed for not taking that
job and for putting him in thatposition and all of that. And I

(58:49):
thought that was interesting because when I, I don't know, for whatever reason,
when I watched it, I didn'tsee her as embarrassed or ashamed or
anything like that. It almost seemedlike she was accepting, like no,
no, we had our moment.It did what it needed to do,
Like we are both moving on andthat's that. Yeah, Like she had

(59:10):
the emotional attachment of a typical male, you know, and he had the
emotional reaction of a typical female.You know. That's exactly how I saw
what. I was just like,yeah, that's interesting, but but it
was Midge. It was Midges maskingof her kind of embarrassment. Yeah.
I mean, now that you saythat, I didn't know that, and

(59:31):
that's very interesting. I can,I can. It kind of does fit
in my mind though, now there'ssomebody appreciate it. Yeah, it just
makes it more real. Like Ilove having that extra layer from you know,
what Rachel's motivations were thinking about andwhen she played that scene right right,
Yeah, so good. I know, it's so good. It was.

(59:53):
I mean, the only other thingabout them is like they both kind
of self sabotage each other, andespecially like now and he you know,
the way we saw him in thehallway, he just was like so scattered,
he's shopping his papers. He looksso broken and and defeated, and
it's hard, Like you know,even when he's talking about like this,

(01:00:15):
like he's running a house in laand he's going to spend some time with
his daughter, and there's just likeyou know, those those seem like really
nice things, like to get away, to get away from all the legal
trouble he has in different things,but there is definitely sadness in his voice,
and it just was it was reallylike you said, it was a
really sad moment. I'm going todeal with it. I don't want it

(01:00:37):
had the sense to me, youguys like I hate I don't want to
say it because I don't want itto be true, But it had the
sense to me like it was agoodbye moment with like for us as viewers,
like yeah, did the beauty ofthat orange hallway the way that like
the last thing Midge said is likeI won't blow it. She promised him,
She made a promise to him,like he's he's got this guardian angel
like like Susie has said, likehe's her champion, like you know,

(01:01:00):
he's her teacher, he's her rolemodel. But at the very same time,
Midge is those things to him.There they both lean on each other,
so equally they have this really interestingrelationship, but like you just said,
Erica, they're bad for each otherand like they should not be together.
I don't think. And yeah,oh god, there's I hope it's

(01:01:20):
not goodbye for Luke Kirby and forLenny Bruce's storyline in the show. I
really hope that that's not the lastwe see of him. But I have
like this feeling, I don't know, Yeah, let's hope, let's hope
for that. I know. I'mlike, please don't put it in a
flash forward, because I let mehave my dreams, my hopes and dreams.
I want to like those flashboards,I know. Yeah, and I

(01:01:42):
know it's coming, like um AlexBorstein has said in interviews that she got
prosthetics on you know, and andso I feel like episode four, I
feel like we're going to get aflashboard with the first thing is Susie,
and I'm kind of more here forthat. I don't know why that sounds
like I want to know, Iwant to see it. Yeah yeah,
well yeah, anyway, Okay,So more about Midge. So she's back

(01:02:05):
at the Wolford. She's you know, willing to take any job now smart,
smart girl. She says that herstand up is rusty, and Gordon
Ford catches her show catches her actand he asked her to be on the
writing staff. And there's yeah,there's some great moments at the at the
Wolford there with Susie, which we'llget into when we start talking about Susie,

(01:02:27):
But as far as Midge goes,yeah, he asked her to be
on the writing staff. And thenI do love that moment where the offer
is put on the table and sheflashes. They do that flash and she
remembers standing in the snow and shesees the sign, the Gordon forward sign,
but she sees it as go forwardand title of the episode, and

(01:02:49):
so she you know, yeah,she's come to her senses and she's like,
I'm in I trust you Susie.She's letting Susie manage her. How
do we feel about this? Withoutgetting too much into what happens in episode
two, I just immediately did notlike the way Gordon was looking at her

(01:03:10):
and watching her. That just Iwas like, oh shit, yeah,
yeah, special I felt that waytoo. I did too. Um.
I even wrote down like in mynotes like he seemed more like kind of
like who's trying to flirt with hera little bit? And you know,
and image is just like her.She's just a you know, gay mode

(01:03:30):
like that. She just wants ajob and work with him, and she
just wants to be fucking taken seriouslyas a comic. And yeah, I
love Midge's attitude toward it though.She's just like you remember when when they
her and uh, doctor guy thatshe was engaged to. His name is

(01:03:51):
now Benjamin, doctor Benjamin. Theygo to buy the art from from that
crazy artist and oh yeah, andMidge is just like, it's okay,
let him, let him grope mea little and then he'll sell you a
painting. You know. Like Midgejust she's got such a thick skin.
She's like, yeah, a daywithout getting groped in the subway, that's
like a day without coffee in themorning, you know, like what you
know, She's just that she's sucha woman. That almost made it as

(01:04:15):
my favorite moment just of how likepertinent and relevant that is. Yeah.
I was just like, yep,everybody's been there. Yeah, we all
know what that's like. Yep,yep, yeah, I mean I'm a
chicken. Show business and I have. I hate to say, like,
we've come so far, you know, we have, but we've come so
very not far at the same time, and yeah, the casting couch is

(01:04:36):
very real. Sex appeal does getyou work, you know, And yeah,
it's it's a shitty reality, butit's a constant reminder every single day,
no matter where we're at. Yeah. Yeah, So so Midge.

(01:04:57):
I didn't notice it at first onfirst watch, he was kind of giving
her that eye until I watched allthree episodes and then I rewatched and I'm
like, oh, and he seesher in a strip club, you know.
And so yeah, Gordon Ford isnot my favorite. He's not my
favorite character at all, which youwill get into. And I don't know
how much of that was influenced tooby I love the show Veep and he

(01:05:19):
plays Dan Egan on that show,and Dan is kind of this womanizing figure.
So I don't know how much ofthat I projected onto this character.
But it turns out that might notbe all that far off, so right,
I just wanted to put that Idon't know enough about Johnny Carson,
but I know a lot of articlesare like, oh, they're comparing him

(01:05:40):
to like Johnny Carson, but I'veseen like other things like no, no,
no, no, no, heis not to be compared to Johnny
Carson. So I don't know ifit's because of what the storyline's going to
be going towards. So I guesswe have to see what happened. Interesting.
Yeah, yeah, there's the FordShow. I read that the Ford
Show was the actual show that they'rekind of taking the Gordon Ford inspiration,

(01:06:02):
you know, that's what inspired it. And so the Ford Show, which
was on in the sixties, wassponsored by the Ford Motor Company. It
was a variety show hosted by thesinger performer Tennessee Ernie Ford, which is
funny that his last name was Ford, which had nothing to do with the
fact that the show was named for. It was just a coincidence because it
was named Ford after Ford Motor Company. So that's where that Yeah, that's

(01:06:27):
where that comes from. And thatshow was pretty groundbreaking because it was like
the first show to feature m.Charles Schultz's Peanuts characters in like animated segments,
and they they closed every show withlike a gospel number. Yeah,
it was. It was a controversialshow, but but it became such a

(01:06:48):
huge thing, and when when thewhen Tennessee Ernie Ford decided to leave as
host, they just ended the showbecause they knew that they couldn't get someone
of his caliber to like a hostagain. So yeah, it was.
It's responsible though for bringing a lotof like inspirational, groundbreaking music and all
kinds of entertainment to to mainstream,so that's really cool. Yeah anyway,

(01:07:15):
So yeah, I just wanted tosay one more thing about Midge agreeing to
let Susie manage her because something thathappened earlier on with Midge's character that made
me not love her and made mego like, oh, Midge, why
you got to be this person?Was she when she was like, you're
my manager, manage me, makeme a headliner, make me letty Bruce,

(01:07:36):
let's change the business. That's suchpressure to put on Susie, another
woman who's just starting out in thebit. They're both on the same page,
like they're both figuring it out asthey go. You know, it's
just so not fair, and Idid not like Midge in those moments,
so I'm really like, yes,Midge, thank you. Let Susie do

(01:07:57):
her freaking job. Like she putsSusie between such a rock in a hard
place, you know, with whatdo I do with you? Like I
can't get anyone to come see you? And which is very funny because she
was trying to get Mike Carr tocome see her act and heat and she's
like, I got no fucking placefor you to see her, you know,
because I can't you know, inviteyou to the Woolford to see her
at the titty Bar, you know. And so just when Midge agrees to

(01:08:19):
do gigs that are not her headlininggigs, of course who shows up at
the at the titty bar, GordonBoard. You know, it's like,
what a strange little turn of eventsthat is. But anything with Mike makes
me happy just because you know that'sRachel Brosnan husband and up watching them interact
or like him and Susie, it'sjust yeah, gold, yep, yep,

(01:08:44):
so good, hilarious. All right, So let's move on to Susie.
So we uh at the top ofepisode one with Susie like, yeah,
I was saying, I love thatthe Rosen Susie Bond knows who to
go to when she needs someone tospeak Midge's language. We need someone to
interpret for us, you speak,you speak Miriam's language and you're familiar with

(01:09:08):
all that show biz patois. Thatwas so funny, and Susie was like
really sweet to Midge in that moment, like in a Susie way, like
when she was like, you sleptwith Tony Bennett, It's like when did
you meet Tony Bennett? But thenhearing her say like I was so stupid,
like how could I say, likemake me a headliner? No opening

(01:09:29):
acts? And Susie's like, youknow, it's not all stupid, Like
being able to say what you wantto say is good. And I liked
how she kind of you know,came in and supported her and reinforced her
in that moment as opposed to leadingall into you know, the potential comedy
of the situation. But it justshe loves her, she does she wants

(01:09:49):
to see her do well. Butshe should have not have mentioned the toe.
God, the toe. I can'tn'tsee that toe. Rose. That
was so and she's like pink littlechirum. Yeah, She's like over there
putting her head between her knees likeoh yeah, yeah, that was funny,

(01:10:10):
and Roses like well but without itfitting into narrower shoes will actually actually
be easier without it. So lemonade, lemonade. Yeah, that was funny.
Yeah. So then Susie goes tomy car to try to get him
to see Midge, and he hasher thrown out and then and then okay,

(01:10:31):
there was this moment though, whenSusie was at the studio trying to
you know, she has this reallyfunny moment with my car where she's like,
come over here, and Mike's likeno, and he's like get out
of here, and they're like mouthing, you know. During the taping of
the show to each other. There'sa moment where Susie hears as she's being

(01:10:53):
thrown out, she was escorted toan elevator. She hears a woman at
the studio talking about a barbacine vase, and I was like, what does
this mean? And she like shehears this voice and she tries to follow
this woman and it says in theif you have the close captioning on,
it says like the woman's name isHetty. That who's speaking And I'm like,
yes, Hetty. I remember,I was like thinking of Hetty Lamar

(01:11:16):
instantly. But then right but amazonit happened so quick and then nothing happened.
Yeah. Right. So Amazon hasthis thing where when you hover your
mouth, you know, it tellsyou who's in the scene, like the
cast of whoever's talking. And Isaw Hetty on my rewatch Hetty is Nina
Arianda and I was like, oh, so, Nina Arianda is an amazing

(01:11:39):
theater actor. I have such I'vebeen in love with her for years,
ever since the first time I sawher on Broadway in Venus and first She's
incredible, and I'm so glad tosee her on my screen. I'm like,
yes, Nina Arianda needs to bedoing television, movies, whatever,
more of that. She's amazing.So yeah, there's more to come about
her. So I'm just gonna saythat is who Hetty is. We see

(01:12:00):
more of it the end of episodethree. But yeah, I was thankful
that they kind of made that kindof glaring late, like hey, pay
attention, Like why are we showingyou this? Yeah, I was just
like I rewatched that moment. Iwas like, wait, we rewind.
Did I miss something? I wasvery confused by that, and I was
like, why did Susie, whydid her ears perk up so much when

(01:12:20):
she heard that that thing that thatwoman said. I'm like, what,
I still don't know that I fullyunderstand this moment. Do you guys have
anything anyway, I mean, otherthan her recognition of her in you know,
Gordon's office as his wife. Lateron, I was That's what I
was going to say, and wecan you know, cut, I don't

(01:12:43):
know how much we want to talkabout that, But I was like,
so are they implying that Susie hashad some sort of interaction with her in
the past that maybe didn't go Yeah, like what the hell happened to make
her? And it looked like sheI don't know, she didn't look thrilled
to see her. So it mademe wonder. I was like, I

(01:13:03):
would love to know if there's she'squite a factory, right, there might
be some history there. I canonly imagine me wonder if it was gaslight
related or possibly you know, theyhave barely, frustratingly, just a little
bit touched on Susie's sexuality. No, that's where my mind went to.

(01:13:26):
Susie's like history of her being ayou know, a pianist, and and
what else. Oh gosh, likethese little like these little flashes of her
or background what doesn't she have adegree, like a law degree or something.
I think that was a joke.Yeah, but I don't know,
but it was like it was oneof those things where we never got it

(01:13:47):
confirmed whether or not it is actuallya joke. And I wouldn't put it
past Susie to actually have that betrue, Like who you know, maybe
she had like this like relationship withher in college or something. Will find
out. Oh no, it'd beinteresting. Yeah, they've said in interviews
like Susie's backstory in her real likeher life before Midge is like it's on

(01:14:09):
a need to know basis for Midgeand for the audience. And I feel
like every little bit of Susie thatwe get is like gold. I'm like
giving more Susie, I want toknow. Yeah, I would love Susie
the prequel. Yes, I lovethat. Seriously. Look, look if
they could do it for Bridgerton,they can do it with me, all
I know. So, Yeah,so Susie's stalking Mike car I guess um

(01:14:39):
with the Christmas Tree. Yeah yeah, yeah, she's got both Susie and
Midge. They got some big mouthson them that that can kind of tend
to get them into trouble, youknow, and like Susie tries to corrupt
Mike Car's kids offering to take themto go see Spartaci was so funny.
He was liked, did you tellthem you were going to take them to

(01:15:01):
see Sparta Kiss? And She's likehmm maybe yeah yeah, so got them
the hot cider and it just ruinedand made him pick the worst tree.
Yeah, I'm a lot. Yeah, and she couldn't she couldn't help but
say, like, none of yourkids really look like you. It's like
you just couldn't help yourself, couldyou. Susie not smart, showing fan

(01:15:26):
is not real. Yeah, yeah, she just you know, she just
kept on going, kept on going. Yep. Yeah. Something her in
Midch have in common, like they'reboth expert bridge burners. Yeah oh yeah.
So um, I want to talka little bit about Alfie here too,
because I feel like Alfie falls underlike the Susie category. So there's

(01:15:48):
this really funny bit as well,where like Susie cracks her tooth on a
Thanksgiving role on Fred's things Hard asRocks, rock Rolls or whatever they call
them. They got to soak inwater obviously, soaka, do you not
know that. Yeah, No,I didn't know that. Um and yeah,
she refuses to go to the dentist. And I was like, and

(01:16:08):
that didn't go anywhere other than thefact that it was just funny. I
could hear Amy Sherman Palladino and herand Dan Palladino just like cracking up in
the writer's room writing this thing forSusie. Because there's a moment where she
was saying to Midge, you gottaget Alfhie on a plane and she's like,
and she's holding her tooth because likethe air, the cold air or

(01:16:29):
whatever is like hurting it. Soshe's like got her finger over it,
and she's like, and don't lethim go to the bathroom because they'll flush
him fell on the toilet. Heflippery, just like the way she said
flippery. I love Alfie though,Yeah, yeah, funny, Yeah,
yeah, I mean Alfie is alittle he's a little I don't know though,
he's he's out there. Well he'sa little. Uh, he doesn't

(01:16:53):
I feel like he's difficult. He'skind of braddy, he's kind of ungrateful.
You know, Susie's diverse. He'squite the neurodiverse. Oh yeah,
person yes, but I did.I did love the scene between him and
Midge when she offered the teddy Bear. That was sweet. And when he's
bigger than Houdini, it's like,you could be bigger than Houdini. He's

(01:17:14):
like, I'm already bigger than Udini. He was tiny, That's why he
could fit into that box. Andjust that that too, like I'm the
neurodivergence was basically emanating from him atthat point with that conversation. My favorite
moment, and I actually would havepossibly put this in a marvelous moment,
is when they gave him the childnag and he was and he was so

(01:17:41):
happy about that. He's like,I won't have to explain anything. Yes,
it's like a little car. Yeah. Yeah, I want one of
those passes the next time. WhyI don't just take care of you on
the flight. Yeah. But butyou know, Susie is being such a
good manager and she's got him.She she scraped him off the sidewalk,
you know, cleaned him up,let him dry out in her office.

(01:18:03):
She believed in him when no oneelse did. And Midge, Midge is
speaking some mad truth. You know, She's like, you're getting top billing
at a two thousand seat theater.You're headlining in Vegas with great accommodations,
like wake up, dude, don'tbelieve these this guy that says, oh
yeah, Susie Myerson's an elevator,you know, it's like, screw you

(01:18:24):
man. Yeah, Susie's I wasglad that Midge stood up for her in
that moment because she's right, like, it's real easy to see somebody once
they've already been kind of plucked fromthe crowd and their talents been showcased.
And she saw him literally like hangingaround a bar and beaten up and yeah,

(01:18:45):
yeah, yeah. So then thetip so okay. So I wanted
to say, there's a moment wherein the strip club where Susie is watching
She's watching Midge kind of like scared, like don't say tittens, don't say
tittens because she knows Gordon Ford isin the audience, and she's like what

(01:19:08):
do I do? Think? LikeMidge, shit, fuck cock? Why
our lights changing? Am I havinga stroke? And yeah, and then
Susie's being She's just I loved Ilove this episode because it just shows like
Susie is after after that talk withUm with Harry Drake, who's kind of
like Susie's little guardian angel. Thatscene in episode four where Harry's like,

(01:19:30):
don't listen to her, Susie,be her manager, Like, you know,
she can't just play basket houses andshe can't. You know, Midge
doesn't know what she's doing. She'stalent, You're the manager. Be the
manager. You know. It didfeel like a little Dais X, you
know, to have Harry Drake allof a sudden be so helpful, And
I was like, yeah, thisis a little hard to believe that would
whatever, like it needed to happenearlier. Yeah, yeah, that seems

(01:19:54):
like funny. Yeah, that seemsthat funny to me, Like why does
he all of a sudden care somuch about helping Susie. But whatever,
I'm glad he did. And um, yeah, as much as I think
that Susie needs to cool it alittle with like, well, I mean,
I don't know, I guess shetried to be kind to Mike,
and Mike is just Mike hates everybodyMike is except his kids in Christmas Trees.

(01:20:15):
I mean he like literally he's sohe's such a pessimist about everything,
like he's like I hope you die, Like to that guy George, He's
like, man, I hope hedies. It's like, who the fuck
says these things? You know?Um, he needs some anger management?
Yeah, and when and when whenSusie gets her way and she finds,

(01:20:35):
you know, Gordon offers offers Midgethe job. She like blows an ice
cube at Mike and like double flipshim off, which is hilarious to me
when he tells, uh, Midge. And that's in the second episode of
will hold off for that? Okay, so you maybe think of the double
fifth. Yeah, and for listeners, I just you know, gave my

(01:20:58):
double metal fingers. Sorry. Okay, So let's move on to Joel,
shall we? Oh Joel? Joel? This episode was hard, Yeah,
talk about it. I cannot standhim, but I felt for him so
much in this episode. And Ithink part of that is because the actor
who plays Joel was at Michael howdo you say his last sagan Sagan something

(01:21:24):
like that. He just does sucha good job portraying like just being utterly
shattered, and I think we've seenthat from him a few times now over
this series, but he is definitelyin a rough spot in this episode.
Yeah. So I have thoughts aboutJoel and like it's weird because I just

(01:21:48):
don't want to like him. Butbut on Rewatch, I was like,
Okay, actually he's charming. Yeah, he has an act. Why fell
for him? Yeah? Yeah,I think it's he's growing. Yeah,
but it's you don't want to likeJoel, like because he was a shiitead

(01:22:11):
from the very beginning. He wasweak and just I didn't care for him.
But I feel like we're actually seeingcharacter growth from him now and it's
hard not to be sympathetic to him. Yeah at this point. Yeah,
yeah, it's I don't want themto get Oh I'm sorry, go ahead,
No, no, no, Iwas just gonna say I don't want
them to get back together. I'veI've made that decision. I really don't

(01:22:34):
want them to have this like,oh they realized they Jolan, Oh no
you mean Joelian. Yeah. No, I don't want them to get back
together. But I think that asco parenting, they've they've done it with
I guess as best as they couldpossibly do it within within the circumstances.
Yeah, but he what what Ijust when he said, was it moist

(01:22:59):
that was kind of making comments toMidge during the Thanksgiving dinner and Joel says,
don't talk to Midge that way.Yeah, Like just all of a
sudden, I was like, yes, it's these moments right with Joel where
he's so supportive of Midge. Andalthough he's like, I can't watch you
do this and I can't be yourman. I can't be that man behind

(01:23:20):
this kind of woman. I wantto be your friend, your best friend,
and support the shit out of youbecause she's funny. She is fucking
funny when she when he beat upthat guy for Midge, and he's like,
I mean I fell in love withhim a little, you know,
And on my first time I watchedthe show, I did not feel that
way. I was like, yeah, Joel, whatever, too little,

(01:23:41):
too late, you know, Iwas very hard. But on my rewatch,
I'm like, no, damn,I love you man like he's human,
that he's he's human, you know, and I think I think that's
what it is now, just you'resaying he's human. That just it just
kind of clicked because seeing him overthe seasons and then going back and watching
that moment where he beat the crapout of that guy, it's like,

(01:24:02):
you know, he's struggling, Like, yes, he made some mistakes and
some really bad choices, and hehas some sort of issues. He has
a horribly fragile ego. It's horriblyfat, right, But I but I
dislike Joel because I see the worstparts of me in Joel. And that's
why it's like, be honest here, Jay, and be honest. Why

(01:24:23):
do you really hate him? Youknow? He supports her, he's so
badly wishes it could be him.Yeah, but he still recognizes that she's
great and she deserves to be seenas great, and she deserves to be
supported. And he never complains thewhole time that he has to take care
of the kids and restart his wholelife. When she's touring with Schi Baldwin,

(01:24:45):
he never complains. He's like,no, you go after it,
girl, Like do it. Ibelieve in you. I know. I
love that he's her cheerleader like that, and I love them as friends.
I love their relationship. I'm reallyI'll say it. I love it.
I love Joel, I do likeI hate him so much. And that
season one, man, you couldnot have gotten needed to change my mind
about my pit Hell no, hellno, what a dick unforgivable, sir,

(01:25:09):
go and you go die like,no there, you cannot come in
to my house. No go wjel. I hated it. He's grown
on me. He's grown on me. And it's and like I said,
the actor Michael zagan is, it'sgot something. It's got something to him,
you know. Yeah, he's prettyspecial. Yeah, so okay,
so let's talk about him in May. And I knew, right, I

(01:25:31):
knew so I was gonna say so, I would have predicted. I had
it written down as a prediction whenI did my rewatch of season one through
four to get Ready, I waslike, oh, man, I predicted
Midge and Joel are going to getback together at the end of season five,
Like that's where we're gonna be.I know it. And I'm like,
I'm like, I feel like theycould make it work, but I
don't want that to be it,you know. But now we know that

(01:25:55):
that's not it. We know becausewe not flashed forward. So okay,
thank god. But I did knowat the end of season four, I
did right in my predictions. BeforeI saw episode one, I was like,
May's going to get an abortion.I know it. Yeah, I
can feel it. I can feelit in my bones. Well, the
way she kept saying, I'm supposedto be a doctor, I'm going to

(01:26:16):
be a doctor. Yeah, overand over. I was like, oh
honey, yeah, this is goingto be there. There was no chance
that she wanted to commit to him. She was so gold oriented and and
even it was even before you know, Stephanie sou what became you know,
so recognize It was even not eventhat. I don't think that this was

(01:26:38):
like a convenience plotline. This isher character. This is what she was
always sessined to be. She isa pioneer. Yep. She is very
forward thinking, she's goal driven.She's very Joel has a Joel's got a
type, don't he Yeah, hesure does. And she knows it.
Yeah, honey, pan ain't ityou know? She Penny, Oh,

(01:27:00):
Penny, Penny, Justice for Penny. No, because she was Penny,
didn't she in in her words tramp? Yeah, a tramp. I want
to I would have like like totallyslapped. I was like, yeah,
I was like I would a decktor. Yeah, same like your husband.

(01:27:21):
But it's like with with Petty.But god, that sounds so good.
We gotta stay on topic, guys. I gotta stay on but um yeah,
no with with yeah, with thatwhole thing with Penny Pan It's like,
it's too easy, though, pickon someone your own size Midge,
and she knew it. She's like, I'm not even gonna She just watched
Penny just just struggle in b Altmanand just like, oh honey, you

(01:27:45):
know. Midge is like, nomatter what, even though I'm totally the
wronged woman here, like I feelbad for you anyway, Okay, good
old Penny. Yeah, um butum so okay, So let's talk about
this scene with because this was almostmy most marvelous moment. But I'm like,
how can it be my most marvelousmoment when it's so not marvelous?

(01:28:08):
Um, But it was. It'smy most marvelous moment because this the acting
that's happening here. When she saidI can't have it all, it's not
the way the world works. Imean, the writing of this is they're
capturing a moment in time this,you know, in such a small scene,
they're saying so much about the world. And she says to him,

(01:28:30):
you're so you I never saw youcoming, And it's true, you know,
she was, she had one job. You know, she's supposed to
make the club fail and Nope,didn't do that. You were just too
damn successful, and and then you'rejust too damn sweet and goddamn it,
I think I'm in love with youand shit, I'm pregnant and no,
and yeah, yeah, that's likethinking about you know, her character trying

(01:28:55):
to become a doctor during that timein general, where they're basically, you
know, women doctors, I'm assumingare very very few and far between,
dealing with that on top of everythingelse with her family and business, like,
there was no way she was goingto have that baby. And Joel,
once he started getting really excited andtelling his family about it, I

(01:29:19):
was like, this is not goingto end well for you, buddy.
Yep. As soon as he started. First of all, you don't make
those announcements, Joel, Joel,Joel, Joel, Where can I start
early? Yeah? You just forreasons, you know, for reasons.
They're kind of like unringing rules inthe world. Yeah, yep, So
okay, all right, let's moveon to I feel Shirley in Moisia fall

(01:29:43):
in the jewel category, so wegot a lot of them. Yeah,
these this season, they're really featuringmoisten Shirley. Uh, they're getting divorced.
Okay, can you guys talk fora second. Just like the way
they announced that was pretty spectacular.Yes, that was hilarious, Like it's

(01:30:05):
it was a surely announcement. Ofcourse it was she's yeah, she's amazing.
Um No, it was just becausehe won't retire after his near death
experience. Let season. Okay,I actually felt that a little bit.
I think I would have said thesame thing to my husband, like,
you know, you almost freaking dieand you're going back to work. Can

(01:30:26):
you sit down a little bit.Yeah, I can hear it a little
bit. But yeah, that's They'rethey're hilarious. They're they're they love each
other so much, but they driveeach other crazy. Yeah, what did
I want to know? If we'reever going to know what they said to
each other? I feel like we'renot there. Baby Sherman and Dan Pelady,
you know, they'd love to dothese things where they like they make

(01:30:47):
something a thing so much that you'relike, oh, this is a thing,
this is it's a clue. It'syou know, I feel like I'm
watching like Colombo or something, andI'm like, oh, they're zooming in
on that that, you know,letter opener, like that's going to be
really important red herring. And sothey say these things like your mother said
something to me that she cannot unsay, and then your father said something to

(01:31:08):
me that he I never thought anotherhuman being would say. And it's like,
what did they say? You're nevergonna tell us? Yeah, there,
their storyline is silly and a littlebit of nonsense, and yes,
I don't okay, Like this iswhat's funny is Kevin Pollock and Caroline Aaron.
So I've I've met Caroline Aaron.I worked with her for very briefly,

(01:31:30):
like I didn't meet her in aclose way at all, but we
did a reading together, a charityreading in New York and she's what a
woman, like what an amazing person. To watch her act live was so
cool. And yeah, Kevin Pollock, the great stand up legend, Kevin
Pollock. You know, these twoactors are truly incredible, and they harken
back to another time that like I'mtrying, like I was trying to articulate

(01:31:54):
in the beginning of this podcast,and I did such a bad job of
their writing. Is is feels soclassic vaudeville sticky comedy that is not always
my bag. It is not alwaysespecially the role like Shirley that you know,
kind of like loud smoker's voice,overly obnoxious, obnoxious Jewish mother.

(01:32:19):
Like I just it doesn't hit myfunnybone because it's not my truth, it's
not my life. But Caroline Aaronas as an actor, as a person,
as a as a a specimen onmy screen is so endlessly watchable that
even if I'm not laughing at her, I'm kind of in awe of her

(01:32:41):
and like dazzled by her ability tojust go for it. You know,
she's got balls, man. Soyeah, the humor, it doesn't always
land with me. And that absurdover the top miss you know, I
don't know, how do you guysfeel about it? Well, like when
she was talking about, uh,potty training a baby like you hold him

(01:33:03):
over the stove. Yeah, thisis what I mean, Like, yeah,
I'm like traumatized a child. Butyeah, she's she's just she's definitely
like like even more of a caricatureof a character like you know then oh

(01:33:23):
yeah. In interviews, um KevinPollock has said they they've said it a
couple of times. Were the comedicrelief in a totally over the top comedy,
Like we're the funny of the funniestof the funniest funny. You know,
I would agree that's comedy. Man, They're like the roperst times a
hundred. Like, yeah, they'reso funny, they're so funny, they're

(01:33:45):
so lovable, they're so quirky,they're so annoying. I've met them both
at some point in my life.I feel, but like they're like,
you know, intensified to the youknow, the highest degree. But they're
they're hilarious And I don't know howJoels survived that. Yeah, the guy
his parents divorced does seem to behitting him like yeah, pretty hard.

(01:34:10):
Yeah, yeah I knew though.I'm like, they're not getting divorced.
No, this is just nonsense.She said, Um, we put a
piece of plexiglass down the center ofthe bed so we don't touch buttons.
Yeah, but you can still seeif the other person is choking in their
sleep, and then moist goes sothey're sto love Yeah, like what the

(01:34:31):
fuck? Oh, they are justso kind of absurd. Sometimes they're so
upset, Like I'll realize that Istart tuning out a little bit of what
they're saying, but on rewatches inparticular, like picking up more on what
oh yeah, yeah, yeah theyare fun. It's kind of like the
asteroid thing, where like you mightgloss over at first, but then when

(01:34:53):
you go back and yeah, that'swhy you could rewatch the show. Yeah,
good till the cows come home.Yeah, so okay, let's keep
go with Joel. So Joel getsuh, Joel has um. He has
an he makes a choice, hegets trashed at work, he acts like
an idiot, he hits on acustomer, gets on stage his band.

(01:35:15):
Yeah, he insides the band,talks about Midge's tits and and he he
does this thing where he calls Midgehis wife still and how you guys notice
he's still wearing his wedding ring.M Yeah, Joel, Joel Joelie Joel

(01:35:35):
yikes. Uh, okay, yeah, I just feel really I feel bad
for him. I do. Ifeel bad for him, and I just
want him to do better. Andthat was a sorry God, it's okay,
go ahead. Care That was afun Archie moment where Joel starts talking
about his wife tits. He's like, Archie's wife's got good tits too.

(01:35:57):
He's like, but not like mine, tit my wife. It's like,
right, aren't you? And aren'tShe's like, never seen him? Yep,
I can't never seen him, can'tcomment yep, nothing, but that
whole thing was so cringey. Yeah, very and then just like yeah,
and then he able to get anybetter. Yeah, he gets to shit
beat out of him. He confrontsMay's father and I'm like, Joel,

(01:36:20):
Joel, Joel gets himself into alot of scrapes. Yeah, true,
yeah, so oh and I somethingI just wanted to mention. There's like
a song playing in Joel's club calledbig ten inch Record. Did you guys
hear this? It's the guy singingshe just loves my big ten inch record

(01:36:42):
of her favorite blues. And I'mlike, is this a song? I
didn't look into it whether or notit was a real song, but this
guy is just talking in this songabout I'm like, is this this is
the sixties? Is dirty? Talkingabout? Most of the songs were dirty.
I was shocked by the dirtiness ofit. But I don't know.
I have a feeling that like itmight have been written for the show,
just like more subtle dirty. Yeah. Right, yeah, right, I

(01:37:06):
just thought that was great. Shejust loves my big ten inch record of
her favorite blues like clever. Thatis a real song. It is okay
good. Yeah, I would havejust taken me two seconds to google,
but of course I couldn't do that. UM so funny. All right,
let's finish out episode one with ummy favorite best for last, even Rose.

(01:37:31):
Oh my god, oh I justlove these two so much, Marin
Hinkle and Tony Shaloup. I cannotget enough. I cannot get enough,
like I need the spinoff. Giveme the spinoff please? Oh so good
I am. I was gonna say, I just I was just gonna mention,
did you watch them? There wasa it was some I don't I

(01:37:54):
don't remember what cham might have beenon Today Show or something. It was
just them. They're walking through thefar in their wrapped arm in arm Tony
she Lupet does not have his mustacheanymore. And but they're just like they're
just so perfect. They're so wonderful, and they're dressed in like very modern
clothes and they look beautiful, andbut you're like, oh god, that's

(01:38:15):
that's still Abram Rose. And they'rejust like, you know, revisiting and
and just kind of reminiscing, andit was just it was so if you
have a chance, maybe we couldput it in the show notes. It
was just just kind of like talkingabout their time and talking about their relationship
and how much they you know,they respect and love each other. It's
it's adorable. It's absolutely adorable.It's on my favorite, um you know,

(01:38:36):
just segments that they've been kind ofputting out, kind of ying the
show. Yeah, but yeah,it's it's wonderful. Yeah, I love
those interviews so. Um So,the first thing that we get from Rose
is that her bank gave her afree trip to Palm Beach. She's like,
they called out of the blue.Oh gosh, and I'm like this,

(01:39:00):
Rose, Rose, did they?Yeah? I had when abe that
a whole sequence after, you know, when Susie's leaving the apartment after checking
on Midge and he's got the ironmarks on his shirt. Oh yeah,
and oh no, it's when shefirst gets there and Rose is just like
like, go put on another shirt, and he's like They're all like this,

(01:39:23):
they came back from the dry cleanerslike this. I thought for sure
that was going to tie in moreinto Midge, you know, not paying
the dry cleaner and not paying themilkman and all of that stuff. I
did not see it. Yeah,yeah, so too. I thought so
too. And then you realize itwas like the string of bad luck that
they were having. I felt soproud of myself. At first. I

(01:39:46):
was like, I know where thisis going, and I was like,
no, no, I don't yep. But when Susie, when I don't
know what he's talking about, Fikefiguring out what's gonna you know, what
happening with the shirt, and Susie'slike, I'm gonna go find out what's
going on as she's talking about goingto see Miriam, and he's like about
the shirt, like that's not important, right, but no, but he's

(01:40:10):
his focuses on the fact that shestill has a key I know, and
did you notice? Yeah, Ican't believe I'm skipping over that whole part.
Yeah. So um uh. Ilove that. The totally difference,
the difference of reaction between a beinglike can you give back the key?
You know what might help you givingback that key, Hey, Susie,
can I have the key back?And Susie's like, no, I'm not

(01:40:31):
giving you the fucking keyback, andlike, truly they Susie shouldn't give the
key back, Like Susie should absolutelyhave a key to this front door,
like it is her front door too, damn it, Like and and and
Rose when Abe was like why doesshe have a key? She has a
key? Like Abe is disturbed,and Rose just says something like what's wrong

(01:40:53):
with that? I love Rose's reaction. I'm like, Rose loves Susie,
and I love it. I loveit. Yes, makes me so happy.
So yeah, so aban Rose aregetting They're having a string of bad
luck. The flight's been canceled,the flowers are dead, two flat tires,
dry cleaning, it's the match makeupMaffia strikes again, you know,

(01:41:15):
And yeah, go ahead and talkabout No, I mean, I think
it more ties into the next episode. But yeah, I just, like
I was saying with Carol, likeI didn't quite think it was them yet.
But then again, that that storylineis so silly and absurd and and
just kind of very out of place. But it was just amazing last season

(01:41:36):
that, Yeah, I was.I was really excited to see that it's
kind of carried into and um,you know when they went into when they
were in the airport and you seethem walking and then here comes Rosen.
Probably I think it might be mymost favorite outfit that she's ever more.
Thank you. Yes, that thathat and hat? Oh so good.
I know, I don't think I'llever look so good. I want all

(01:42:00):
of Rose's hats. It justsporgeous.But but yeah, yeah, she it's
and even with something so like youknow, like her. She goes there
or she goes to the airport andeverything is canceled. She's just so calm,
but then she realizes it, putsit together so quickly. Yeah.
Oh, did one of them haveanche accent? Is that she actually recognized
that she is? They're absolutely hatyou have on? Yes, that's an

(01:42:24):
Irish accent. Well, I'm nota I'm not a what does she say,
I'm not an actor or something.She didn't say an actor. She
said, oh man, I'm notan intern um an impressionist. Yeah.
Yeah. They have some really greatlines when when Rose hangs is on the
phone and she's trying to figure outwho canceled the flight and she hangs up,

(01:42:45):
she's like, my husband is youknow, yelling, and my husband's
going, you know, having afit. And she and he goes,
he goes, Rose, we missedthe cab, hey, but there will
be another cab, like there wasanother flight the way Tony Shaloub said it
like a like a like a child, you know, like a like a
pouting child. So good. Andthen I gotta say, I just want

(01:43:10):
to write down every single line thatAbe and Rose say. But one of
my favorite lines that I had tojust write down word for word was they
couldn't find a reservation and nothing elsewas available. So we're going home now.
Will be there when you're done,when you're very important, will be
there when you're done with your veryimportant favor for your friend with a sore
tooth who did not put you through. Brin Mar and Midge just like,
hey, why don't we share acab home? No, we came here

(01:43:31):
alone and we'll go home alone.Much like birth and death. Yes,
I just love that with your friendwho did not put you through brin Mar.
Abe Blake cannot understand this susie thing, like he will not. He
just can't get it, like Moishacan't understand that that that people would pay

(01:43:54):
money to watch Midge. Yeah,like, honestly, you can't tell a
joke. That joke was a stinkeror whatever. He says. I just
love every time Moiss, just like, you should really rethink this career choice.
She needs to get another job.Yeah, and yeah and him and

(01:44:15):
asked Hed have some good back andforth too. But that's more. Yeah,
we didn't get a whole a wholetime with Avon Rosen episode one,
but more more to come with that, So let's move on. Okay,
So episode two, we start withthis sixty minutes flash forward where sometime in

(01:44:38):
the eighties, Midge is world famous. She played Carnegie Hall, had a
tour to Vietnam with Bob Hope.We got pictures with her and Carol Burnett,
Andy Warhol. She's done college tours, children's charities. She claims to
do everything for the children, thisWiseman Masal Children's Foundation. She's had four

(01:45:00):
marriages and a fallout with Susie Iyai yah. I you know, like
e this no again. They startoff the episode on a real down or
yeah, this's so much information,Yeah in such a short period of time.

(01:45:21):
Yep, this was my least favoritemoment. This episode two was my
least favorite episode of the three thatwe got. And I think it was
just because it's clearly setting up somuch stuff. But this was my least
favorite moment of the whole what wegot so far, because yeah, I
just didn't want to. I'm like, you're telling me so many things,

(01:45:41):
and like I didn't I don't knowthat I want to know. You know,
we found out a lot. Yeah, I mean, maybe maybe it's
a better way of storytelling, sowe don't get it all at the end
that at least, you know,we're I don't know. Hopefully we'll see
kind of like in the same likewhen we go from time line to timeline,
will see how things are patched up, hopefully at least with Midge and

(01:46:03):
Susie. But yeah, I gether Time Life was it Life magazine or
Time? That cover was beautiful.I will have to say that it looked
so from the period, like thethe heightened colors and and it was it
was just gorgeous. So it wasexciting to see that. She's probably pretty
quickly after this became very like wentinto fame, like hat had hit some

(01:46:25):
type of fame at that point.But yeah, I agree with you.
I was I was not. Iwas pretty upset. Yeah, So that
was your least marvelous. Yeah,I agree, I agree, Oh yeah,
gosh, oh my gosh. Itotally forgot to say what was our
most marvelous moment of episode two?Yes, isn't that I forgot to start

(01:46:53):
off with that. My goodness,we listen, it's it's it's been a
night. Yeah right, Well thattells you how impactful that cold open was.
Basically with yeah, I'll skip,I'll skip that for me. You
guys, I want to know,so we know my my least marvelous moment.
You guys, go for it.What's your most marvelous moment of episode

(01:47:15):
two? Honestly, I think Abeand oh my gosh, I forgot his
name, his boss at the Villagevoice. Oh yes, when he was
asking him, he like goes inand puts his hand, slides his hand
over his thigh. He was like, is this sexual? And he just
kind of looked at us like yetthat whole exchange I was dying laughing because

(01:47:41):
of course, like Tony Shalhoub isgonna deliver all of that brilliantly, but
that just that whole scene we learnwe learned a lot about Rosen and uh
Sea nothing when sexual was at pastseven and She's just like, oh,
it's not even seven. I waslike, this is this is rich?

(01:48:08):
My god, oh my god.Yeah, I'm actually realizing now in my
notes I forgot to write a mostmarvelous moment for episode two, and I
think that, yeah, when whenwe talk about Abe and Rose, you'll
hear me talk about it. Butthe way Marin Hinkle says, like,
Abe, what is this? Andwait, let me let me find it

(01:48:30):
in my notes, just because whateverwhat we'll we'll talk about it now.
Um a fond So she goes,hey, what is this a fondly intentioned
sexualized gesture? Oh? And shelooks her watch, Well, it is
past seven, and am I supposedto do something in return? I think
it's optional? Okay, And thenthey both like sip wine and just stare

(01:48:55):
at each other, and then likethey're sitting very close, like he's leaning
over so awkwardly. Yeah, thatthat is my, that is my that's
God. Like I'm saying everything withthose two. Yeah, yes, I
agree, I agree. I meanI I actually probably would say that as
well, because I think that right, you know, I think they're so

(01:49:17):
lovable and so adorable. But um, I guess you know, if I
was thinking of another one probably wouldhave been. I did enjoy the choreography
of Midge with the handsome man andgoing through the subway system that way was
incredible and adorable and and so silly, and um, I really enjoyed it.

(01:49:43):
It was it just kind of likebrought back like kind of like that
frantic, like you know, busynessof like that New York lifestyle that we
kind of missed in the last newepisode or at least like with them like
like any end of the season andeven in the beginning of this season that
it kind of like was like that'sold Midge, old missus Maisel. So
I was happy they kind of broughtthat back because it feels like it hasn't

(01:50:05):
been there in a little bit.Yeah. Yeah, what did you guys
make of that whole Silvio interaction.I mean, I'll never be sad about
seeing Milo vinto Miglia, Yeah,on my screen. But I enjoyed it.
But at the same time, Iwas kind of just like, what
is the point of it because now, and I probably was because at the

(01:50:29):
beginning of the episode, I waslike, well, we know she shouldn't
marry him or write anything like that, So I kind of wonder if he's
going to be back or if thatwas just kind of like a little fun
yeah segment for them to do.I know, it was entertaining, you
know, I wonder. I keepI keep thinking to myself, like,
what was that included for? Whatwas that there for? Apparently he wasn't.

(01:50:54):
He's a great guy, That's whatwe got from that. You know,
he never lied. You know,his wife they were separated. It
was overlaw before you know, shetook the dog, Yeah that was and
renamed him what a monster horrible.Honestly, I just kind of chalked it
up to the Palladinos yeaving Milo vintomigleyon wanting to bring him back. Yeah.

(01:51:16):
I mean it definitely felt like specialguest star. But I think just
like kind of like the mannerisms andthe interactions they had with people, and
the and the Caron esque lady whogot the police officer was very cute and
adorable and kind of helped bring alighter moment. But I just kind of
liked the fact that I remember thefirst time I ever kind of ventured in

(01:51:38):
the subway system in New York.Aus in Philly, we have a subway
but it's only one level. AndI've once went to New York and I
was by myself and I was decidedto kind of explore a little bit,
and I realized there was multiple lowerlevels of the subway, and it's very
scary and crazy and hectic, andI just thought I enjoyed kind of like
that hustle and bustle of that reallydid a scene. Yeah, yep,

(01:52:01):
yeah, I constantly watched this showand just I mean in awe of the
background, the sets, the backgroundactors, the beautiful costumes, like the
attention to detail is just the showis truly it's a feast for the eyes
and years it's delicious. So yeah, I did enjoy that too. So
let's get Midge to work here.She is freaking out about being in this

(01:52:23):
writer's room twenty and one. There'sthese guys are weirdos and they're dicks to
her. Of course, of coursethey are. And you know, I'm
glad they didn't make Midge like Idon't know if you guys watched, this
is the first thing that comes tomind, Like Emily in Paris, terrible

(01:52:43):
show. I can't even hate watchinganymore. It's that bad, Like this
is not a I don't want to. I don't. I can't hate watch
the show like I could in thefirst season. I turn it on and
it just makes me want to smashmy phone, computer, television, whatever
I'm watching it on, because that'show bad show is is bad. Sorry
for any of you out there whoenjoy Emily in Paris, but um,

(01:53:04):
if you do, what is wrongwith you? Now? I mean kind
of hate watching? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's just so bad.
So yeah. The thing that Idislike the most about Emily in Paris is
Emily comes into every situation and shemagically bibbity boppity boop makes everything perfect.
So she comes in and everyone lovesher. She comes in and she fixes

(01:53:27):
it. She's wonder woman, Like, oh you got a problem, Like,
well in sweeps Emily and everything's fixed, and like, I fucking hate
that shit. And it kind ofhappened a little bit with Midge at the
at the Wolford. She came intothis strip club and she like she made
it. She saw all of theflaws and she like restaurant impossible, that
shit, you know, like,but but it never bothered me. It

(01:53:51):
Actually I watched that whole season withoutever thinking to myself, Oh god,
yeah, Midge saves the day,like so predictable as not everybody loves Midge
and not everybody was like the guyum boise, thank you. He like
did not enjoy her at all.You know, he was very resistant and

(01:54:12):
then when he finally did come around, it was charming and it was hilarious
the way that he was like pickingout flowers and and you know he totally
was down with all Midge's changes.So with this though, I like that
they the writers gave her a hardtime and they didn't want to accept her,
and yeah, it was it wasreally funny how like they were like

(01:54:35):
take a seat, and there wasnowhere for her to sit. Every time
she wants to sit with them,she has to like drag that big,
heavy chair and like the second shewalks in there, and she's like,
am I in the right place?And they're all like no, yeah,
like immediately not yep. Did wewant to talk about what we found out

(01:54:56):
at the beginning, like a summaryor just kind of what do you mean
like with all the sixteen minutes,like what we know about where the where
Midge's life is going? Well,I just like specifics, I don't know
if we wanted to go into specificsof what she we know she's achieved.
I mean, because we we didn'ttalk about you know, she's a Grammy

(01:55:16):
winner, an Emmy winner friend shortof the Arts and Letters, performed eighteen
executive sold out nights, and ohthat I did skip all that, didn't
I I thought I kind of dida smattering of like I've wrote, done
a bunch of things. They gaveus like two billion things that she did,
you know, Um, that's thething it was. And all the
pictures were there too, Like there'sa lot of pictures of a lot of

(01:55:39):
yeah, like find out she getsmarried to like Paul Simon, Robert Evans
and like Quincy Jones. I waslike, what is happening right now?
It took me a second to likeprocess everything, and I think, honestly,
I think it distorted my watch ofthe rest of That's how I can
so I know, yeah, Iknow, yeah, like we could talk

(01:56:01):
about it, but I'm like,what's there to say. I feel like
it's just gonna make sure this iswhat I'm I'm trusting. I'm trusting the
genius of Amy Sherman, Palladino andDan Palladino, like, I just have
to trust that there's a method tothis madness. Like I can't really think
too much on it. I don'treally have any comment at this point.
I'm like, wow, this isa dump. They dumped comes relevant when

(01:56:26):
it's like, well, we knowshe's not gonna end up with Joel or
at least yeah, I guess untilwe don't know what she's doing in nineteen
eighty one. Yeah, And alsolike she's married Joel, right, and
then they got divorced, and thenthey got married again and then kind of
got divorced again, So maybe anotherone of those marriages is Joel, Like
who knows, We don't know whoall those four marriages are. So and

(01:56:50):
Joel has been mentioned yet, andI don't want to jump into episode three,
but he hasn't been brought up yetI think so far. Grandpa so
Abe was mentioned just very briefly inthe first episode, but we haven't heard
about anybody else. Susie was mentioneda little bit in this episode. They
about the falling out, so wereally were They're still kind of like painting

(01:57:12):
that for us. But I agreewith you, Like the my least favorite
parts of all the episodes were theflash forwards. But so I think,
yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry, no, no, no, no,
I was gonna say I think Iappreciated the Ethan interaction a little bit
more only because we saw Midge.Was I impressed. Not really, but
it was at least since it wasa little at least it was a little.

(01:57:36):
I don't know, like they feelso different. The voice feels different
from the rest of the show,Like it doesn't like they don't they feel
kind of like they're cutting paste intoit. But you know, we'll see,
Yeah, we'll see if. Somethingthat struck me though, is that
she kept the name Missus Maizel aftergetting married four times. That that hit

(01:57:57):
me. And she still build asMissus Maslum. That kind of signals to
me a little bit. I mean, we don't know for sure of it
that like her and Joel are stillfriends, and I'm really happy about that.
I really hope that that's true,you know, I really hope that
that's the one constant in mid andJoel's life both is that there they are,

(01:58:20):
you know, there for each other, supporting each other, like we
talked about, you know, withthe Jeels. I just had a thought,
Yeah, so you know how initiallytalking about Esther looking into genetic mutations
or whatever to try pose it thetrajectory of diseases, like if they haven't

(01:58:41):
mentioned Joel, Like now I'm worriedthat Joel's dead and that's why, God
going that real? Or maybe maybeAbe, maybe something that maybe she did
that's actually and she's very frantic aboutlooking for that specifically, so that that's
actually true. That could possibly bea very sad, dark reason. I

(01:59:04):
don't want Aid to be dead.No, no, no, but he
hadn't. He's only budgeted. He'sonly budgeted his life to live until what
is it, like seventy four orno, no, not seventy four,
it's sixty. Oh god, itwas some like ridiculously young age that I'm
like, what the fuck, It'slike I have to die by this time.

(01:59:25):
Oh my gosh. I know.There's so much about the show that
I don't want to talk about.It's so hard listeners, so hard to
stay on task with this, Likeit is so difficult. It's everything remind
you of other parts of the show. Yeah, it's difficult to cover a
show in the fifth season when therehave been such amazingness that has come before
it for four seasons. You know, this is this is a tall order

(01:59:46):
we have at our at our feet, you know. And but I think
that is why kind of like theintroduction of her in the writer's room,
like that was something completely fresh,like completely new setting that honestly like makes
complete to me that she would transitionin that direction. Yeah, that was
I don't know, I actually Ilike that. And um, she is

(02:00:10):
also the token female, but alsoshe's been a pioneer just as a female
comic, and true she wants tobe respected as a comic and not just
kind of fall back on her herbeautiful, you know appearance. So I
agree with that, and and she'sreally up to the challenge. She's she's
feeling defeated throughout this episode. Um, but I don't know if you guys

(02:00:32):
noticed that, um Mel is Howardfrom Only Murders in the Building. Oh
yeah, yeah, I was likeso great. I'm like, I'm so
happy to see him again because he'shilarious. And and Eddie kay Thomas is
Adam from American Pie Fame's Time.Yeah, there's there's a lot of great,
like you know, new actors inthis But I I really did appreciate

(02:00:56):
the writers. It was interesting becauseI've always wanted, like you think about
I think I heard recently that there'sand we're going to have to look back
into a fact check on this,that there hasn't been a lot of female
writers in like I think, intalk show history, like I have to,
We're gonna have to look at that, Like they said, there's only
been like less than twenty and soyeah, I heard that, like I

(02:01:17):
was reading in I'm gonna I'm gonnafact check that that you know, this
is like female writers are still kindof still overlooked at some point. They're
they're far more heavily dominated by men. And like if you think of like
Tina Fey and yeah, um likeSarah Silverman and you know where they came
from, writing exactly like where theycame from, like just to kind of

(02:01:39):
give them a voice in what theydid, and you know, and even
thinking about what what Midge was soworried about before she got there, is
that making sure her outfit was presentable, making sure she was wearing a city
outfit. But you know, Ikind of like how they kind of brought
us into that world because I've asa non writer, I would not even

(02:01:59):
know where to start if they're writingpunchlines and jokes for a monologue in a
talk show. That was pretty cool. It's one of those things that I
wonder that if it will come back. I expected it too after I rewatched
season four, But now that we'reinto some of season five, I don't
know if we're going to get anymoreel Roy Dunham. But I was,
I know, I was. Iwas very interested by that though, and

(02:02:23):
I thought it was a cool littletidbit to throw in that she everyone assumed
she was a man, and shewanted to that assumption to be made.
You know, she went she namedherself that the l What does that stand
for? Shit? You know?Yeah, I appreciated that, but I
also hated it was a woman likeshitting on another woman to just kind of

(02:02:45):
help her move up and net andthat's yeah. I didn't like that part
of it. Yeah, yeah,yeah. I was wondering if they were
going to bring that back again,and now I don't think they're going to,
but yeah, yeah, any who, so yeah, so Midge is
on this in this writer's room,and um, they do this. I

(02:03:05):
found it really funny when they didstarted singing yeah, over and when the
guy goes in to the bathroom wheneveryone else leaves and Midge is just like
over Hill over Dale, and he'slike, shut up, this is my
office. She's right, uh AndMidges don't doesn't know what to do and

(02:03:27):
how to fit in and how tobe And one of my if I had
to pick a second most marvelous moment, I think it would be Midge's sad
little lunch on the steps by herselfwhen she drops that pickle and just picks
it up and like and eats itlike with such relish like relish pickle.
Uh made funny. It was notintentional. Um, oh it should be.

(02:03:49):
It always should be. Yeah,Midge is in She's in quite a
pickle there in that writer's room.Um. I got a million of them.
Uh yeah, So that was thatwas so sad and so relatable and
like it was it was just Ilove that little moment, you know,
a little touch kind of it waskind of nice seeing Midge. Yeah.

(02:04:11):
Yeah, not everyone loves her.I mean, yeah, obviously not everyone
loves her that. But but alot of the time, there's like this
magical quality about Midge, like shecan do anything, and she's like you
know, got fairy dust, youknow, just like wafting off of her
everywhere she goes. But yeah,I for some reason I enjoyed seeing her
like fail and seeing her in this, like in this undermined position. I

(02:04:32):
don't know. I wouldn't say Ienjoy it, but I like seeing giving
her something to fight against and somethingto rail against, and I agree to
prove herself. I would be boring. Yeah, she just did fantastically at
every single opportunity she was given.I will say, though, I feel
like you can definitely tell that thisepisode was written primarily by Daniel Palladino and

(02:04:58):
directed by A Dance. Yes,I should have said that at the top.
Man, I am losing my format. Yes, this episode is.
It's it's a man man man manworld, written and well written by both
Amy Sherman and Daniel Palladino. Butthis one's directed by Daniel Palladino. Yeah.
It's just like his touch is alwayslike a little bit of like family
guy humor. I feel like comesout with him a lot like when Midge

(02:05:23):
is you know, showing up andof course, like Gordon hasn't told anybody
to expect her starting there on herfirst day and she sees Mike in the
background and she's like my yeah,like that was very family. Yeah,
I know, I know. Inoted that too. I'm like, this
feels like something Yeah, yeah,did you? Um so I the title,

(02:05:46):
which I thought was very different,like it's a Man's man Man Man
the World. Yeah. Um,I thought it was a play on the
movie It's a Madman Man World.Yeah. Then there is a song.
There is a song oh, withthe same title, and it's by James
Brown. However, it was writtenin nineteen sixty six and if you read
the lyrics are very chauvinistic, verykind of like so maybe that could be

(02:06:10):
one of the tie ins of justlike how in. Yeah, I thought
it was because I'm like the titlesof like go Forward felt like okay,
that was very intentional. Yeah,it was a billboard. It was like
she's moving forward, and then thisone, I was like, well,
you know, she's kind of delvinginto this world of men. Mainly the
women in that field were like,you know, working in a kind of

(02:06:32):
administrative, kind of secretarial type ofpositions, and so like just that that
little fleet. But I thought itwas interesting. But yeah, like,
but it's a James Brown song.It's pretty it's quite the well on that
definitely fits with the episode to Georgewalks in and Mike is kind of you

(02:06:53):
know, going off and has tofeel about how he wants him to die
and YadA YadA, but he hasthe secretary like stand up and do a
twirl at her desk as he's likeclearly commenting on her appearance, and it's
just, I don't know, itfelt kind of madmnish. Yes, yeah,
you're right, you're right. Andwhen we meet when we meet George,

(02:07:15):
the producer of The Gordon Ford Show, he he loves Midge right away.
Um, Mike car hates him,but he does say to her,
well, you certainly beautify the placeI can cancel those plants I ordered,
you know, like he's he justinstantly goes and you know, like you
were saying, there's a very smallpool of women in writing and television.
He's like, oh, you knowthis woman and that woman. You know

(02:07:35):
them right, like they're writers,the women writers as well. There's only
like three of you, so youmust know the other ones. And yeah,
Midge is like, nope, don'tknow him. I'm not a writer.
Yeah, Mike hating George also mademe like Michael a lot more.
Yeah, I know, yeah,I love I love Mike. I love

(02:07:56):
a her mudgeon. He's he's justhe's too young to be so Curmudgeoney,
Like, Mike, you gotta yougotta take a vacation, man. Yeah.
The poor guy. He needs ahe needs all he wants his like
a little smell of pine in hislife. Can't get can't get away.
Yeah yeah, so okay, let'sget into this Gordon Ford nonsense. Um,

(02:08:20):
Gordon Ford's a little bitch. Uh. That's kind of in a nutshell.
His writers have a hell of atime. He's very hard to please.
He quit smoking and so everyone elsehas to quit smoking too. Can't
can't be at his eyeline when he'son camera. And yeah, there's a
there's a line that he says toMidge like, Yo, yeah, these
guys give you any problems, youknow, just come to me. It

(02:08:41):
was like so obvious the way thathe said it, like you don't give
he's just saying it, you know. He wouldn't go to bat for Midge,
no freaking way. Yeah, he'sjust a little douchey, Yeah,
douchebag over there. Yeah, Idon't really know. I don't really have
any more of an opinion about Gordonat this moment that I care to share.

(02:09:03):
My notes just repeatedly say like anytimehe walks in or says something,
it's just like fuck that guy,this guy. Yep, it's like I
don't like it. And all theother writers are like hiding out at a
bar just because he doesn't go there. Oh yeah, I like that tells
you everything you need to know abouthim. Yeah, yeah. And yeah,
he runs the office like he's he'sdictatory, you know, like he

(02:09:26):
walks into a room and they're allyes, sir, no, sir,
you know, and they all likeshape right up when he walks in.
But as soon as they he walksout the door, they're like, oh
god, we fucking hate him,you know, real. Yeah, And
they're mad at Midge because when sheshowed up, he came to their hideout
bar and she's like, I'm notX. Don't get mad at me.

(02:09:46):
I didn't do it. Yeah,So more to more to say about mister
Gordon Ford. Um, all right, let's move on to Susie An episode
two, or actually, why don'tfuck it, Let's go to Jole next
because because it's right there with whatwe were saying, it connects more.
I feel like in episode one itwas more natural to talk about Susie next,

(02:10:07):
but yeah, let's talk about whatyou got? What do you got?
Well, the only thing I andI only think I was running because
I think I wrote when I wasrunning my notes was a little more chronological
order. Yeah, that's and itwas like more of the aftermath of what
happened to him after the night before, and you know, and I don't
I mean, like just just Archie'skind of reaction to him was just in

(02:10:28):
a major apology, butout how hereached out to Midge to kind of save
him was brilliant and get the kidsto come and save him from the situation
of being waking up in Shirley andMoisha's house. Yeah, and little boy
pajamas after getting very beaten up thenight before. But I just I thought

(02:10:48):
that the fact that he actually confidedto her just kind of showed where the
relationship is. He still trusts her, she still cares about him, and
he was able to kind of umconfess what had happened the night before.
And yeah, but then Joel didthis thing where I'm like, I'm starting

(02:11:09):
to close off against you again,Joel, because he acts like a dick
and he blames Midge for me leaving. And I was like, Joel,
stopping, stop doing those things.Very very true. Yeah, that's that's
him though. He's he's very quickto blame other people for the bad things
that happened to him. Yeah,I don't like usually Midge, and it's

(02:11:30):
usually Midge. It's usually Midge,and it's usually fucking bullshit. Um yeah,
when he was like, you talkedto me, you could be the
reason, you were the reason sheleft? Why did you talk to mey,
I'm like, Joel, don't slapyou in a minute, shut the
fuck up. This is me offwhen he does shit like that. But
yeah, I think I wrote thatdown. Shut the fuck up. Yeah,
very is in his little boy pajamasis exactly where he's at right now.
Yeah, And I love how hewas just like not able to get

(02:11:54):
over the fact, where why amI? What is going on with this
outfit? Why where did these comefrom? And surely just I keep a
supply of little boy pajamas on handat all times like everybody else. It's
like nobody does that. Oh,God, I love Carol later and it
was really good. Yeah, andMidge is like she takes because such good
care of Joels. She loves himso much, she leaves food in his

(02:12:16):
refrigerator. It's very cute. Iknow. Yeah. Not a whole lot
more about jewel in that was soYeah, it's good. Good to touch
on that. Then. Now wedidn't get a whole lot of Susie an
episode two either, Um, butlet's talk a little bit about. Yeah,
we saw that she's she goes onto be this legendary manager lizam and

(02:12:37):
Ellie, George Carlin, Barbara Streisanjust to name a few. Yeah,
it's like, I don't know,I don't know what else to say.
Yeah, yeah, that she Iwas happy that Susie did so well for
herself. Like I had a differentreaction to that part, like that flash
forward did to the beginning that mademe happy sus But then of course,

(02:13:01):
like hearing that they have this fallingout, I was just like, well,
shit, yeah, I think thatthat's the thing that really made me
like angriest. Yeah, we knowit's coming now. Yeah, and I
and I don't like it. Idon't want it. I don't want no,
no, no thing, thank youno. And I have a sick

(02:13:22):
feeling that I feel like it wasmore brought on by Midge though, because
Susie seems to be the one andI hate to think this is more loyal.
Yeah, it's moy and Esther alsosaid something about, you know,
obviously like Midge thinking that the worldrevolves around her, and that seemed like
a very big issue and with herMidge does think that she's she's quite the

(02:13:48):
selfish one. Yeah, true,Yeah, I know, I'm just not
There's nothing more to say about theseflash forward things. It's just like,
well that's a fact, ain't it. That's a factor there. It's depressing
yep. Um, but I butokay, back to happiness and funniness.
Um. Susie's pissed about Midge callingher to pick out a sitting outfit.

(02:14:13):
That was fain I did like howMidge, when she's going like in the
flash forward, is talking about allof her iconic outfits and she mentions the
sitting outfit. She's like, yeah, a lot of thought went into this
one, ye, Susie just beinglike okay, like put this together and
this together and this and then you'regood. Yep, and she's like,
oh yeah, it's good. Andshe's like you can sit in it and

(02:14:37):
everything. I want to make sureyou's gotten a flare. You know,
you're good, You're good. AndMidge is like it's perfect. Oh my
god, you're a genius. You'reamazing. And she's like, fuck you,
Midge. Oh yeah, I'm goingto back you. Susie. But
I love that she's like, noone in the fucking demented Weissman clan can
call me before ten thirty in themorning except Zelda, because I know if
Zelda bothers me, she'll make upfor it with something delicious. Oh thank

(02:15:00):
you, miss Susie. I loveSusie and Zelda, and we see,
let's just say with Zelda with theone fact that we get about Zelda real
quick is that Zelda's got a LoVa, got a hot mask. Zelda and
Yu and he just like popped downa nowhere, like who's that bold guy?
And I didn't even notice him inepisode one until I went back and
did the rewatch and I'm like,oh, yeah, there he is,

(02:15:20):
He's right there. Yeah, andbut yeah, Susie noticed him. Very
sweet. Yeah, Susie's like whatare you talking about. You didn't notice
a guy who looks like mister Queenwho's got a boner for Zelda hanging around
the house. Oh gosh, yeahthat was great. It seemed nice.
Obviously he has like a better bondwith the kids than Midge does, so

(02:15:41):
you know, like in somebody's takingcare of your children. And of course
Midge has no idea, and Abeand Rose are like, well, whoever
he is, he seems like he'sfree, free, you know, babysitter.
Hey, Like that's all Abe careis about, is like, oh,
they'll take care of the kids.Thank god, I don't have to
not like, he seems like agood guy. I seem safe. It's

(02:16:01):
like he's available, he's free.Yeah, he's got some free times,
some spare time in his hands.Great. Yelp, yelp. It's great
parenting going on. M M allright, like bringing us to aban Rose.
There was a lot of great things, Oh god, in this episode
with aban Rose. Yeah, wealready talked about some of them. But
yeah, this, uh Matchmaker's burningroses tea room. What do you guys

(02:16:28):
think of this whole thing? It'slike that went a little far. I
was not expecting it was when Yeah, I saw in the trailer, I
was worried it was their apartment.I wasn't too it was I would have
confused, and I thought for sureit was going to be their apartment,
and I was I was. Iremember being worried about that when I saw

(02:16:48):
the trailer. Yeah, but theway that she happens upon like seeing that
it's burned down. She's walking withis it whatever her friends or yes,
it was, um, I'll look, I'll look up her name. Remember
she's describing like this horrible way thatI guess her second husband, who happened

(02:17:11):
to be her favorite husband, diedand she thinks Rose is reacting to what
she's saying, and of course Roseis noticing that her tea room is on
fire. But that whole exchange Ithought was very Karne kind of yes,
the friend played by then Cox,And I really do love this actress.
I can't believe I forgot to listher to put her in my notes.

(02:17:33):
Shame just like a nice happy exampleof Palladino camp that I thought came across
really well. Yeah, Yeah,I really love the addition of Karne and
when she came in to start helpingRose with her matchmaking business. How she's
so enthusiastic about it, and she'slike, you're going to be a very
busy lady. There's so much happinessin the air. Like the way that

(02:17:56):
she talks just cracks me up.Yeah. So, um, what else
we have? I think we alreadytalked about the meeting with Penelope. Yeah,
guy, I gotta just say thiswhole Penelope thing. Okay. I
have an actor and I really lovedoing, you know, accents and things

(02:18:20):
like that when I play characters.I love when I get to bring an
accent or something. This actress,all due respect, all due respect to
the woman who played Penelope. Truly, I do not mean disrespect for name
is Lucy Taylor, this actor,she's great, Love you, babe.
This is the worst British accent.I was like kind of appalled. I
was like, why did who?Who? Okay, this I don't know.

(02:18:41):
It took me a second to realizethat that was the accent. Like
I know, I was like,it wasn't until my rewatch that I realized,
oh British it was, And thenit was all I could hear and
it was quite bothersome. Yeah,but then the hand on the leg moment
kind of woke us up and likereally, oh yeah, she's flirting with

(02:19:01):
him, so to him up andlike I said, I could, I
want to. I want to justtranspose every line that Abe and Rose say
and just repeat it. Like Iresisted the doing that, but the way
that Abe reacted with, um,this is an old wallet. I'm trying
to think of how old this walletis. It's probably about six or seven

(02:19:24):
years. I should change this wallet. But if you don't get a wallet
as a gift, you never changeyour wallet. And then the waiter comes
over. Are you enjoying? Hesaid, how are you enjoying it?
Enjoying? What the way? Ijust I know, I said I wouldn't
like I didn't even write any ofthis down, you guys, I just

(02:19:46):
like that was just off the topof my head because I just fucking love.
I'm sorry. I can't resist.I can't resist. It's so good
everything. Tony Shaloub says everything.Yeah, no more to say. It's
just so good on his physicality,like just his expressions and like the way

(02:20:07):
he moves, like it's just thistense movement, like it's just so much
funnier. Yeah, Like I feellike whatever they write for him. He
just takes it and delivers tenfold.Yep, like it's so good, yep,
yep, yep, yep, allof that. Um, what do

(02:20:28):
we think about the fact that Abedoesn't ever I mean, this is they've
planned. This is a seed planted. Well, I don't know, maybe
there's not who No, I feellike Penelope's definitely coming back. This is
a storyline that has legs to it. This is more and more about this
is coming back. Um. Ifeel like this is going to become problematic
because she did say, oh,your wife's a Francophile. I have my

(02:20:50):
husband's French. They should meet andthis woman, I'm like, is she
a swinger? It's the swinging sixties. That's where I think if I's French,
so right, yes? And thenI thought, so my mind is
going there. And we all knowthere's loves Paris, Yeah, and there's
an Amy Sherman Palladino and Dan Palladinohave made quite a thing about, you
know, those French people and theiraffairs and they're crazy sex, sex escapades,

(02:21:15):
and so I don't know. That'swhat my prediction is that they're going
to be like a couple who likesto swing just because wish wishful thinking.
I hope that we get that.That would be fucking hilarious. Yeah,
I can already picture it, likeAbe and Rose sneaking off for like a
quick conversation in the kitchen, panickingabout like what's going to happen in them

(02:21:37):
being flirtatious right like a dinner partythat they're like what do we do?
Yeah? Yeah, And then Ifeel it, and then I feel like
Rose might look at him and belike, well, why don't we just
lean in and see where see whereit goes? Like I feel like Rose
would just go there. She seemslike, oh my god, the writers
need to call us because yes,yeah, this is I would love it.

(02:21:58):
I'm enjoying this, this script shipit. Yeah, so what do
we think about? Abe is likelying? Abe is lying to Rose,
well, not lying, I guesslying biomission. Yeah, but he kind
of made a slip with like adessert lunch at my desk. But Rose
tells Abe what's going on with her? You know, she does come clean

(02:22:18):
about At first she was like,yes, the tea was lovely, and
then at dinner she's like, Okay, this is what's really going on.
I didn't want you to worry,but they you know, like the Matchmaker
mob is like kind of after us. But Abe is not telling Rose what's
really going on with him. SoI hope it doesn't that doesn't play out
a little bit more. I hopeit more just like spurs him on to

(02:22:41):
realize like, oh maybe I shouldbe a little bit more flirtatious with my
wife and see where this goes.Yeah, yeah, I'm supposed to Penelope
starting to work at the Village Voiceor something and that becoming an awkward situation.
Yeah. I feel like we've alreadykind of had that, Like their

(02:23:01):
their relationship, you know, suffereda lot in season two that I would
like to see, Yeah, moreso of like how they can connect more,
because they kind of went like afterthey came back from Paris, they
kind of reverted right back to wherethey were again, except he doesn't have
a study anymore. He only hasthe bathtub. Yeah. I don't know
that I would say that they revertedright back to where they were, but

(02:23:24):
close. I don't know. Imean, I guess like when they were
in Paris, they seemed so muchmore like younger and like less worries,
and then when they came back,and that's when he had his issues with
Columbia and and even with Um whenhe was getting the job. I don't
know, I would like I kindof would like to see them them explore

(02:23:48):
that romantic side again because it wasit's very endearing. I think that's like,
I hope it's not like a jealousything, and you know, you
know, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know. I'm not
here for an a bro's falling out. No, I'm not hearing that.
I'm here for some crazy sexual shitanigans. Though. Yes, if Abe and
Rose have a fallout, we riotyeah yeah, right then then the deal

(02:24:09):
is off. Seriously, though,please Universe, don't don't do me like
that. You can't handle it,all right, right to move on to
episode three and do it. Okay, let's get into episode three. Most
marvelous moment, Erica go, Well, I'm gonna say the most marvelous moment

(02:24:33):
for episode three was probably when wediscovered that Susie is a very talented ice
skater. I was like, youkind, I'm so sorry. I think
you can add to it, like, why was it so marvelous? Jabe?
Oh no, no, I'm justI'm dumb, kidding, No,
I mean like same, Zi's likeI just I just feel like, you
know, we we discuss this islike Susie has like all these un hidden

(02:24:54):
talent, like all these hidden tales, and when they come out, you're
just kind of like we, yes, did I just see her And I
don't know the name of the movethat she did, but like you see
this like her extent like extension andshe's just gliding across the ice, and
it is it is the most unlikelything to ever have Susie do. It

(02:25:15):
was just so I literally said outloud, like I almost did a spit
take. I was I had amouthful of um. I think I was
drinking iced coffee at the time orsomething, and I was I literally went
like ooh, and then I waslike I swallowed and I was like what
the fuck? I just started dying. It was wonderful. It was,
it was, it was, itwas everything to me. It was so

(02:25:35):
delightful. Alex Borstein, I wantto know, please tell me things.
Please let this be in an interviewthat's going to come out soon if if
if we get in any interview,like you know how they do long cast
interviews on this show that are justso great. If if there's an interview
out there and the interviewer does notask about this, I'm going to be

(02:25:56):
so mad, Like, please,someone ask ask Alex Borstein about this,
because I watched Rachel Brosnahan ice skateand I'm like, oh, wow,
she can ice skate really well,oh I've been They put this in the
storyline because Rachel Brosnehan's probably an iceskater. And then Susie I'm like,
no, it's they did this forAlex. That's the reason that they un
this in because they love doing thingslike that. If they know that someone

(02:26:16):
has this weird talent, they're justgonna throw it in there. I feel
like that happened on the Golden Girlsa lot, and now I can't I
mean not the Golden Gilmore Girls.Yeah, and now I can't recall like
an example of that. But yeah, I also an opportunity to show Rockefeller
Center. You know, it's it'salways great. Yeah, yeah, true.
I have a friend who did backgroundon this episode at the ice skating

(02:26:39):
rink and they were they I needto talk to this person more about their
experience, but they just said itwas a long ass day. It was
fucking cold. It was. Iremember when the casting notices were out for
um, we need ice skaters,you know, and I was like,
he he, not me, notthat I I used to ice skate as

(02:27:00):
a kid. I mean not asa kid, like when I was even
as a teenager. And I'm prettygood at I skating too, And I
totally could have done it, butI knew that it was gonna it was
gonna be a working background in thatkind of setting would be so uncomfortable and
long and cold, and I'm like, Nope, not gonna do it.
Yeah, but I love watching thebackground. Like I've said of this show,

(02:27:24):
this scene in particular, I hadto I had to seriously stop myself
and restart the whole scene because Iwasn't listening to anything. I was just
watching the background. I was sodistracted by how full of life it was.
It's great. They all looked likebecause it was right after they announced
that they were number one, soit just everybody looked happy and drunk.

(02:27:45):
Yeah, And and I was thatlady that fell like. I was totally
that lady who went in and justlike toppled over with her bottle of champagne.
That was me because like, yeah, I can't I skate to save
my life. But it was great. I loved it. I thought it
was It was really cute. Andthey're and I'm expected, yeah, and
those are obviously like all stunt peopleand everything, but they they just make

(02:28:07):
it look so believable, you know, like I totally Oh, it was
so enjoyable to watch that scene.It was. It was definitely one of
the greatest scenes I've ever seen scened, one of the greatest scenes that's ever
seened. It was grand. I'mglad we all had the same marvelous moment,
was Cara? What was yours ofepisode three? I really loved Abe

(02:28:30):
talking to Ethan about fear and thiswhole issue was sleeping in his bed and
the whole exchange was brilliant. Butthe fact that he describes in detail the
park slope like plane collision to himand starts talking about, you know,

(02:28:50):
torsos and arms and I have alot of this transposed. Would you like
me to read it? Though?I will say my favorite line when you
get to the when you get tothe end, it's about when he said,
you know, you could eat badclams and be evacuating from every orifice
in your body for a week,and Ethan's like, but I hate clams.

(02:29:13):
Hating clams won't keep you safe.Ethan, Yes, I lost it,
but read please read the airplane partbecause that part made me so happy.
I okay, so I paraphrased someof it, but he says I
didn't. I didn't do it all. But fear is natural. It's there
to protect you. There's so manythings to be afraid of. Have you

(02:29:35):
ever heard of Park Slope? Aplane wreckage killed six people on the ground.
Six people were crushed by various armsand legs and torsos from previously intact
bodies. That's pretty scary, right. Wars bloods, tigers escape from the
zoo. Lightning can strike you evenon a sunny day. You can eat
bad clams and be evacuating from everyorifice in your body. But I hate

(02:29:58):
clams. Hating clams won't protect you. Eat and you can fall down a
well you didn't even know was there, or go flying through a windshield when
your daddy stops too fast. Youcould accidentally spell Carol Channing's name wrong and
instantly become a man who must beapologized for in print. It's time you
learn to live with fear, exceptthat it's there and there's not enough tape

(02:30:22):
in the world to keep you safe. Your Grandpa is here to tell you.
Death comes for all of us,even the brave. Now, would
you like me to tell you abedtime story? I couldn't. I couldn't
write it all down. But that'sthe majority of it. Um, God,
what a great monster. Then Iwas like, I hope Ethan's still

(02:30:45):
in therapy. Yeah, that littleboy's face. He had to move across
the world and doesn't go to akabu and be engaged to a very scary,
very scary girl. Yes, andthus, and thus now we know
why Ethan is the way he is, y'all. Because, yeah, that's
a good point, carav because ofthis moment with Abe changing the course of

(02:31:07):
Ethan's life as he as he knewit. It's just beautiful. It was
beautiful that whole scene. Yep,yep, yep. Yeah. I watched
this. I watched him do thatmonologue like five times, I have to
say, and then finally on thefifth watch, I just said, God,
damn it, I gotta transpose thiswhole thing, don't I. Yep,
Okay, just get to it.Jade just quit. There's a two
ways around it, because as soonas he started talking, I'm like,

(02:31:28):
oh god, this is going tobe another one. I'm gonna want to
repeat word for word, but don'tdo it, Jade. The listeners will
hate you. And I'm like,no, I'm just succumbed to the I
am one. Yeah. Yeah,he was just so good in this episode.
And that whole Carol Channing thing wasshould we start with aban Rose,
Let's just start there, Let's doit, okay, So Abe, yes,

(02:31:50):
what this Carol Channing thing, Ohgosh, I could not handle.
Like that's another one of those thingsthat I feel like the Palladinos just handed
to him and he took it andran with it farther than they ever thought
he would. Yeah, it wasbrilliant, Like he's having this crisis about

(02:32:15):
a dark Knight of the soul.You know, I'm having you know,
him having a dark Knight of thesoul from this Carol Channing thing. But
you know it was so important thatit was in the title. Yeah,
it's true, but he just likeI think he said one of my favorite
lines that I think Abe has eversaid, and it was kind of a
throwaway one, and he's like,I've been bringing my Yester Prynne two ends

(02:32:37):
in print. By the way,that's literally the very next thing I was
about to say master print. Theyjust like, oh yeah it was gold.
Yep, yep, yep, abethat was. That was something that
made me laugh out loud really hard. Oh god, and man, there
was buck. I got a backtrackfor two seconds while we're on this subject,

(02:32:58):
because there was a moment in episodetwo with Rose when Rose calls,
Noah, can you order a quickraid on an enemy? Or can I
speak to someone in the raid department? Then you could just give me the
number. Oh god, there's toomuch and she's there, really is.
I thought if I knew there wasa specific time they were going to be
there, you could just fire bombitor something. Should I call back later

(02:33:22):
use a code word? How aboutflower girl? Or should we meet in
the park at dusk? I've heardabout spies doing that. Sorry, there
was I just noticed that huge sectionin my notes that I did not mention,
and that's you know, Rose ismy face? So did she ask
Susie for a gun in this episode? In the episode three, We're gonna

(02:33:43):
get there? Yep? Yeah,yeah, yeah, we're getting there.
Um yeah, so okay. Anywayback to Abe the Carol Channing thing.
Yes, I totally agree with you, Erica. There are no other actor
in the world could have pulled thisoff like this bit would have fallen flat
because if they take it to suchan absurd level, like it starts out

(02:34:05):
really funny, you know, butthen they almost like overplay it to such
an absurd level. And it's usuallysomething that I don't like that Amy Sherman
Palladino and Dan Palladino do is thatthey write things that are just so not
believable and like so far it feelslike out of character. And this is
kind of like, I guess youcould say it's like out of character for

(02:34:28):
a but it's not. It's likeso believable for some reason, because Tony
Shalouba is just that good. It'sso absurd. I would forgive. His
rigidity and anxiety is just like it'sso intense, and the older he gets,
the worse it gets. And thatis something that he is just so
ashamed to be to miss type Channingand the fact that it's Carol Channing,

(02:34:54):
the fact that it's Carol Channing.It's just such a punchline in herself.
I think I can feel that alittle bit. I think I I could
feel that that little bit of likeshame self, shame on that. Yeah,
He's like, now I'm one ofthe idiots. Up until this,
I was, I'm the only Ihad the distinction of never being corrected at
the Village Voice. And you couldjust see Abe like honestly checking the corrections

(02:35:15):
and like laughing to himself every timehe does, like what an idiot misspelled
channing? Dumbass? You know,like Abe loves to that shit. He
loves to see people fail, youknow, he wants to make like a
fifteen hundred apologia. She's like,no, man, he tries to call
every subscriber perch use that was thatwas hilarious. And Susie does this thing

(02:35:39):
where she does like an emergency breakin call, and I'm like, is
that a thing? Was that athing? It is totally a thing.
My grandma used to do it whenkids, and like we would be talking
to our friends, and my grandmamwas a you know, God blesser soul,
but like she was a very worried, anxious lady, and she was
always worried. There was something wrong, and she would do those emergency break

(02:36:01):
ins just to check on. Ohmy god, that is totally a real
thing. An I'm sure, yeah, oh my god. And when he
when Susie does it, he's like, no, no, decline, decline,
and it's like, that's the pointof this break in features that you
can't decline it. And he's like, who the hell is this? And
he's like, Susie's like, who'sthis? I want to talk to Mitch.

(02:36:22):
Oh my god. Yeah, Aclaims who have never made a mistake
in his in his life. He'slike, I may have gotten something wrong
in kindergarten, but there are noexisting records of my time there. I
checked. My cheeks are like hurtingyou guys right now. Yep, Oh
my god. It's so funny.It's so good. Okay. And then

(02:36:45):
then getting onto my favorite lady Rose. So Rose is getting paranoid, right.
She hears all these noises and sheshe thinks that someone is out to
get her with She's like, okay, surely you heard that sounded like a
gun being cocked or a sword beunsheathed. Oh god. And at one

(02:37:07):
point, okay, compose myself.At one point off camera, Midge walks
into a scene, saying, Papa, and you just hear Rose exclaim and
she and she nervously like the clatteringof dishes, and she Midge just like,
it's just me, Mama Rose,just the way that she was.

(02:37:28):
Then she like drops the dishes.Rose. Oh my god, Rose is
freaking out right now. Man,Oh my god. It cracked me up
the way. Yeah. Uh thenyeah, we get Rose Susie's bonding another
bonding scene, and as soon asit started happening, as soon as Rose

(02:37:48):
walked into Susie's office, I justsaid out loud watching it to myself,
Yes, yeah, I'm loving thesestorylines. Have did I mention that I
love this? I don't know thatI've made it clear, because I really
really fucking love this. Just mytwo favorite actors, Yeah, my two
favorite actors in the show just doingtheir thing together. I just I mean

(02:38:09):
I say that because that Abe isAh. I don't know. If I
had to pick a favorite, though, it's got to be Rose, then
Susie then Abe. It's it's veryhard to choose. I don't know why
I'm so interested in categorizing my favorites. But anyway, so Rose asks Susie
for a gun. It has tofit in my purse and be quick on
the draw. What did you guysthink of this? I just loved her

(02:38:33):
rational for like, she's the angriestperson that Rose nos so obviously, oh
my god, she's gonna have agun. What did you say? There's
there's always this air of um notanger about you. But I didn't write
it down like I said. Icouldn't. I couldn't write everything down that
she said. But she said they'dsay something of like every time I see
you, you're angry and there's alwaysthis air of of of hostility I think

(02:38:56):
she said about you. Yeah,and she's not like far off about being
correct. Where to go to geta gun with like Frank and Nikki?
Oh she's so yeah Rose nose likeRose nose. Yeah. I just I
also wonder how that's gonna turn out, um, because obviously Rose is not

(02:39:16):
fully aware of Frank and Nikki's involvementin helping her out with her match make
business. Yet she'll know soon enoughthough. Yeah, right, it's gonna
be fun. Yeah. And Ilove Susie's reaction to this um to helping
out Rose. I mean, like, I love that that Rose is such

(02:39:39):
a badass that she she's like Midge, you know, she's so determined to
keep doing her matchmaking. And Susie'slike, damn straight, I'm gonna help
you out, and she goes bullies, Man, I hate bullies, screwing
with a nice lady, a nicecrazy lady like Rose, Like, fuck
the fuck those bitches. Yeah,And so Susie sets Rose up with I

(02:40:01):
just love that. Susie was like, you need an office, Rose,
you need help because the tea room'sburned out, and she sends her to
Maggie's office across from Susie. Butum, we gotta I gotta say my
favorite Oh god, man, thisis another most marvelous moment. Can I
have like six for this episode?Please? And they're all they're all coming
from like Abe and Rose by theway, and Susie. This one's coming

(02:40:22):
from Susie. They burned down thetea room, my tea room, the
one that has the delicious whip creamthat is just the right amount of vanilla
and a hint of nutmet nutmeg thatmakes it downright celestial. It's burned to
the ground. I was gonna investOh god, my favorite callback ever favorite.

(02:40:45):
And Okay, this is very particularlyfunny to me because as as a
child, when I used to eatdairy, sadly I cannot anymore. My
stomach will not allow, cannot abidethe dairy. But there is dairy free
whipped cream that I do make myselfwith coconut cream, but it's just not
the same. Um. But Iused to eat, like, my favorite

(02:41:05):
food of all time is whipped cream. I used to eat bowls and bowls
of it with just whipped cream andsprinkles. As a kid, I would
have this for breakfast, lunch,and freaking dinner if you let me.
So as soon as I saw Susieeating that, I was like, I
am so jealous, and I sowhen I when I saw Susie's reaction to
this celestial whipped cream. Oh,she's so appalled that anyone could destroy that,

(02:41:28):
the beauty that is this whipped cream. I was like, I get
you man on such a deep levelwith this, I just love it.
It hits so close to home forme, is very special. Yeah,
the just reasons this show gets me. It feels like it's made just for
me. H Okay, I thinkwe need to move on from abn Rose

(02:41:50):
now, Um, there's something elsethough that I have here. Uh Oh,
Midge and uh Abe have that momentwhere she says that she needs where
Abe keeps moving Ethan off of hissleep mark, and Midge says, remember

(02:42:13):
remember the cookie lesson. You abandonedme on my cookie lesson and to this
day, I don't know how touse this semi colon and it's too late
now, and which which prompts Abeto then give Ethan like the fear the
fear talk. Uh what did youguys think of that bit between Midge and
Abe, that talk that they had. Oh, they're just dragging for Ethan
back and forth. I mean thatwas really funny, literally, like just

(02:42:41):
this poor child. And then assoon as Midge walks away, he just
pops his head up and he's like, mommy, yeah. I mean,
like, you know, even asa parent, like I my kids,
like if they would they would endup in my room at some point,
you know. And so I totallyunderstand if I go out and you know,
and they're like I missed you andall, I totally get it.

(02:43:01):
But I also understand like the needto kind of not be so could dependent
even as a parent and a childlike kind of recognize that, and it's
just so funny how Abe is justso against the way Midge is trying to
kind of address her son's needs.He's like, no, we're just going
to rip the band aid off andyou know, scare the shit out of

(02:43:22):
him. Yeah, but yeah,it is funny to see, how,
you know, we see in theend of this episode, like obviously Ethan
is having attachment issues and wants toconstantly like be in mom's bed. And
then when we see in the future, like he seems pretty well adjusted,
like off living his own life onthe other side of the world. And

(02:43:43):
then with esther like she's totally finenot being in mom's bed, Like she
immediately gets up and goes back toher bed, and then we see her
in the future clearly with the mommyissues, and that was kind of This
isn't the first time that has Umhas had one of these weird fixations with
Midge either. Remember the staring ather moment from this season like two.

(02:44:07):
I think it was like she justwould wake up and and Ethan's just standing
there like staring at her, AndI think that the I don't know that
the writers had a plan to putthis storyline in episode five way back then.
I mean, wouldn't shock me ifthey didn't. If they had that,
I wouldn't put it past them,m because they seem to have planned
this out pretty from the get go. But yeah, it's a nice little

(02:44:30):
story arc character consistency that they havegoing on with Ethan here, because he
is very like Mommy's Mommy's boy,you know. Uh yeah, yeah,
he's got I'm curious. I'm curiouswith the his fiance that she's quite the
dominating personality. Let's segue Jones overhere. Let's get into that leads us

(02:44:50):
quite perfectly to this nineteen eighty fourEthan working on a lettuce form, going
to going to Rabbi school in Israel. Yeah yeah, and engaged being a
lawyer. He's engaged. Yeah,who does not like Midge decidedly? Yes,
that was funny, Yeah, yeahit was. It was a lot.
And also I was actually very surprisedthe way he looks like. It

(02:45:13):
just was kind of shocking to seehim so kind of like overgrown, overgrown,
you know what I mean, likea lot of hair, like not
cap but then again like he's living. Yeah, it looks like a commune,
like yeah, he's just yeah,yeah, yeah himself, he's like
a rabbi hippie. Yeah, Imean it's sixties man, or no if

(02:45:37):
this is the eighties, eighties,yeah right right right, So yeah,
the Ethan thing for me was weird. The I found it weird because I
just did not, Like I said, we don't get a lot of the
kids, and this was unexpected andit was hard for me to buy.

(02:45:58):
I guess because I just don't knowEthan, Like I don't know Esther,
and I'm like, Okay, Iguess Esther wants to be a doctor.
Sure, Like this girl has hadzero personality, so why not. But
I feel like Ethan we got alittle more personality from him. And what
we know about this kid is he'slike really kind of lazy, Like they
make a joke out of how he. I feel like, especially in season

(02:46:22):
one, he's just kind of adumb kid, you know, Like I
don't know, there's something about himthat he's always like got his mouth open
and like just staring at the TV. You know, That's that's the Ethan
that we're getting. So for allof a sudden he's in rabbi school.
I'm like, there's nothing about thatkid. No story, no groundwork has

(02:46:43):
been laid for me to believe thathe would go into this later in life.
So it just it felt a little. It's just weird. I don't
know, It's all I got.But you know that's really true because I
mean, when we met Esther,we can hear Midge, we could hear
Abe or feel their mannerisms. You'reright, I'm maybe he's more is he
closer to a Mazel maybe? Likeis he more like I don't know,

(02:47:05):
I don't even see moisture Shirley inhim, definitely not Rose. But yeah,
that that's actually a really interesting point. Also, I didn't Midge was
not likable in her eyes. Ohand there's something very crass about Midge,
and like there's a connection to herand Joan Rivers, which we'll talk about
in later episodes. Um, wecan't go into it all now, and

(02:47:26):
I haven't done enough research on itto speak about it yet, but I
know that there is that connection ofhow much she is kind of like Joan
Rivers, but Joan Rivers is crassin a different way than Midges. Midge's
crass in like this selfish, egotistical, unlikable way. Yeah, I this
this flash forward was my I don'twant to say it was my least favorite,

(02:47:48):
because I think that nothing is lessgood than what we got an episode
two. I just don't like anyof these flash forwards. I don't know,
but yeah, well very valid.Yeah, she's not going out there
to see him, to check onhim or meet his no fiance. She
wants him to come to see herbe honored and tell Aviv like, yeah,
the the UJA Federation, the UnitedJewish Appeal, Federation of Jewish Philanthropies,

(02:48:16):
because I guess, you know,she's got all these charities, and
you know, she's being honored atthis Jewish philanthropy event. And I'm assuming
that it like either somebody I don'tI guess maybe not Susy at this point,
but she probably knows it looks betterto have her children there, or

(02:48:37):
at least one child supporting her.Well. When we saw in the other
flashback a flash forward to that estherwas just like saying the response that she
gives to the like, what's itlike growing up with your mother? Missus
maisl as your mother? And she'slike, it was very lovely. My
childhood was filled with laughter and warmthyes, other children were jealous. Yeah,

(02:48:58):
surprisingly they were, like, Lordknows why because I didn't want this?
Yeah, her kids don't like her. No, this is what I
mean, Like, I don't likethis for Midge. I don't want this.
Yeah, I like a Joan Crawfordmother. Yeah. Like as soon
as it, as soon as theseflashed forwards go away, I like try
to forget that they exist, honestly, Yeah, because it's not flashed forward,

(02:49:20):
like if I would hate it less. I don't hate it, but
I would hate this sixteen minutes thingless if we never saw anything with the
children, Like if all we weregetting was a flash forward into like Midge's
success and her en Susie's falling out, I could deal with that a little
bit more. But I don't understandwhy the kids are important now when they

(02:49:41):
were not important at all. WhatI'm saying, that's what I'm saying.
Very well, maybe that's the wholepump. Maybe that's a specific point.
Maybe they're trying to say, oh, yeah, look at look what this
hat, Look what happened because theyweren't important. Yeah, trying to push
that forward? Is it working?Not necessary? Really? Because they only
have what we've got seven more episodesfor them to not even all up.

(02:50:07):
Oh that's right, they're only nine. Oh gosh, yeah, we'll see
what happens. Yeah, I'm curiouswhat they do. I know at the
beginning I said, um, Idon't hate it yet, but I definitely
don't love it. And now I'mlike, I hate it yeah talking about
yeah, yeah, no, no, you're really making me think about it,
Like what you're saying about Midge's personality, Like I didn't I thought these

(02:50:30):
thoughts, but I didn't really thinkthem enough to like put them down in
my notes or anything. I justkind of thought them, but like,
yeah, no, Midge is nota nice person. And also it's like,
you know how in the second episodeflash forward, they say, oh,
so you're doing all this for charity, and she goes, Yep,
everything I do is for the children. It's not lost on me that the

(02:50:52):
next jump cut is her saying,like each a little bastard, Like it's
a lie. It's all a lie. She's not doing She's doing this for
her image, is how it seems, you know, Like she's not sincere,
she's not like Midge isn't growing upto be a good person. She's
clearly like not living in reality becauseI don't know she's not seeing Ethan for

(02:51:16):
for who he is in front ofher. She's saying, like, I'm
your mommy, and mommy needs youright now, so put on your suit
and make sure you take a shower, take two showers, kid, because
I need you to look good forme. Like God, Midge, I
don't like this, you know,And it just doesn't seem like Midge is
doing well, you know well,and it's oh, go ahead, Yeah,

(02:51:37):
it's funnier when it's left alone atthat she has two children in there,
and afterthought and yes, see theramifications of that. Yeah, it's
too real. It's what I saidat the beginning kid adulthood. I was
like, let's not go down that, right, Yeah, that's true.
I was actually gonna say she's kindof turned in the Sophie. Oh gosh,

(02:51:58):
it's really awful. Yeah, althoughSophie was kind of better in the
very end a little bit. Yeah, after breakdown. Yeah, those are
some fun scenes too. But yeah, I just I'm a little apprehensive as
to where they're going with Midge's characterbecause I don't want to end up hating

(02:52:22):
her. Yeah, Like I don'twant to leave it with a bad taste.
I hope we don't have a RoryGilmore situation on our hands, guys,
right, But like, the Palladinosdon't have a great track record with
like carrying characters through these like twobillion season trimesters of birth into like letting
them go at the end. Andyou know, we all know what happened

(02:52:43):
with Rory, Like the general consensusis they kind of didn't They kind of
fucked her up a little toward theend, like Rory is, Oh,
yeah, this is tragic dumpster fireof a character. You know it's not.
And then again, like spoiler alert, if anybody has not seeing Gilmore
Girls a year in the life,it all ended with a surprise pregnancy.

(02:53:05):
So I feel like the Palladinos justlike when they don't have a formula,
Yeah, yes, And I justI don't want that to happen. I
don't think it's that they don't knowwhat to do. I think that they
like to do these things and theyjust want to do them again, you
know. Yeah, Well, becauseI really think Amy Sherman Palladino thinks that
pregnancy is one of the worst thingsthat could just send to you like yeah,
and they just kind of notoriously likeand I get that, Like I

(02:53:30):
I have never wanted kids for myself, but I don't hate children or I
don't see them as like I don'tknow, And I feel like the Palladinos,
like they're to a certain extent,like it's the worst thing that could
happen to someone just to make itmake them, let's make Joel super sympathetic,
like what could happen a pregnancy?God, Like they just it is

(02:53:52):
and it's dramatic. I'll give themthat, like it's true. But I
don't know. I don't know.I'm just yeah, And I'm thinking of
how they portray like motherhood in general, Like look at Rose, Like the
whole funny intro to Rose is like, um, she's worried that esther as
a baby is going to grow upto be ugly because her head is too

(02:54:13):
big and like and she's getting likeshe's always saying like what are you wearing?
It's not thinning? You know,Like she's not a great mom.
She's she's kind of totally insensitive andyou know, does not care about mom
mommy things. And then like Astridwho wanted to be a mother, so
much has had a child, andshe's like, how often do you cry?

(02:54:35):
She's like, my life is hellnow, but I love it.
But like, you know, justlike this is motherhood to them. Um
yeah, I mean I thought Ifind it. It's true for me in
my life. But Erica, you'rea mom and you love being a mom,
So what do you what do youthink? I haven't slept well in

(02:54:56):
about fifteen years. That's why you'reso cool with only getting five hours?
Yeah this podcast right now? Yeah, it is midnight right now, and
Erica it's just like, oh yeah, guys, by the way, I
gotta be up at like five am. Yeah. And she doesn't even say
it like with any urgency either,Like I just like it's like what you
know, plan out my my morning. But no, I mean, it's

(02:55:16):
like motherhood is I want to say, it was like, you know,
pregnancy was like my my my son, it was it was a very difficult.
Pregnancy wasn't fun. I was sick. And you know, I will
save the birst story for another day. It's it's really hard and it's but
like there's wonderful parts, there's difficultparts, there's challenging parts. It's never

(02:55:37):
you're never done. But you know, I could see it from any perspective
of like why it's kind of likeeither feared or kind of like not the
ideal. But I'm also not oneof those like weird kind of like you
know, picturesque like, oh,motherhood it's so great. It's it's hard,
It's it's very hard. But youknow, I my children dearly.

(02:56:01):
I would you know, but youknow, they they all the bullshit that
Bidge deals with, like just fromthe like the kids. It's it's true,
it's absolutely true when they and theymake light of it, and I
think that's the only thing you cando or you'll you'll cry. You'll cry
a lot. Sounds fair, Yeah, And you need you need a really
good partner, and I'm very luckymy husband I were a good team.

(02:56:22):
But it's it's just you know,I, like I said, I've always
kind of can see her, likethe mother's guilt is so seriously real because
I'm a working parent. I workfull time, but there are times where
I like to go out and they'relike, oh, yeah, I have
to drop the kids off, andyou feel like an asshole, but You're
like, I I have other things. I would like to do you know

(02:56:43):
once in a while and you know, but yeah, it's unclear to me
just from this flash forward with Ethan, like I'm airing on the side of
her. She's unaware of the realityof Ethan and his his his girl,
of his fiance and how they arelooking at her like, uh, we
don't like you. But it's notmade completely clear if Midge is like sees

(02:57:07):
this, what is what is thesereactions coming from these kids in front of
her. I don't know. Ihope that she has more awareness and she's
just covering, like I hope thatshe's not completely gone from us. But
anyway, let's I feel like we'retwo off of this because I don't want
to dwell and on the dark partsof season five. Yeah, so let's

(02:57:28):
talk more about Midge in in thesixties in episode three, so we have
Yeah, I was gonna just say, like, I think when we go
back into the writer's room, youcould kind of see her using her little
book, kind of watching how theother boys do their work and kind of
just learn as she goes and youknow, kind of just build. But

(02:57:54):
what was it How long did ittake like four weeks for her to actually
get considered even a joke, andthey were like mocking her jokes whenever she
would contribute, So you could seethat she really has to prove herself amongst
her peers who don't respect her.Yeah, So it was it was it
was interesting to just to kind ofsee that, yeah, Carol go,

(02:58:20):
you go well, and it makesme the whole struggle of her trying to
get a joke finally into the show, like I think, and that type
of you know, in a maledominated field, anybody that's been involved in
a male dominated field can probably relateto her experience, even if you weren't,

(02:58:41):
because you know, I think it'ssomething that women still deal with to
this day. But the whole entiretime I was lashing back to, you
know, internships at particular law firmsover the summer during law school and just
the everyday like acceptance that go goingin you were just seen as less then

(02:59:03):
or you had to do ten timesmore in order to, you know,
just get that one check mark nextto your name, like one contribution.
And seeing Midge get it and thenwatching Gordon mess up her joke. I
was just like, this is probablybothering me a little bit more than it

(02:59:26):
should. But seeing her reaction,I was just like, seriously, like
I was so glad that she didnot back down to him when he tried
to play it off that yeah,oh it was on purpose. I flubbed
that on purpose. But that wholeI don't know, that whole struggle of
hers trying to finally get a jokeand like get some recognition that really resonated

(02:59:48):
with me. Yeah. Yeah,she can't let it go, and Midge
has to be She was about tohave it but she apologized it was good.
You know, he's a dick,but whatever, and she's about to
walk away, but uh, andhe, you know, says that joke
what a what a what a bombedanyway, and she just has to have

(03:00:09):
the last word. She can't letit go. She has to be right.
She has to hear him say hemessed up. And and I just
want to shake Midge sometimes because it'slike is it really worth really like consider
your audience, read the room,like look at who you're talking to here,

(03:00:30):
you know, have a little awarebut this is the thing, like
Midge is not. Yeah, Ihave very little faith in Midge actually her
awareness levels, because she's very unawareof the fact that Gordon Ford. You're
never going to get him to admithe's wrong, Like that is by nature
who this guy is. He's ayou know, overgrown toddler child who's famous

(03:00:52):
and who's completely just conceded and youknow, has everything handed to him on
a silver platter. He's a babyman. He's not gonna say he would
have fired her if he didn't wantto sleep with her. Words like,
there's no way she'd still be there, and I just she'd better not sleep
with him or I will go No, I don't think she will livid.

(03:01:16):
But he likes of course, he'sjust keeping her around now at this point
because he sees it as a challengeand hopefully Yeah. He's like he's like,
it's a it's a Hepburton Tracy kindof dynamic. And I'm like,
oh god, gross. Yeah,And she's like, aren't you married.
I'm not that kind of married.A awful He's just ikey, Yeah,

(03:01:39):
She's like, I think that's whatmy husband told his girlfriend before he became
my ex husband. Well he soundslike a cad. It's like, fuck
you asshole. Yeah, he's gross, it's aw yikes. Um. And
then there's a moment where Midge iswith Shirley, we can go into I

(03:02:03):
guess let's go into Joel next.That feels like the most natural thing because
Midge does stand up in front ofMoisha and Shirley at the Button Club,
and again, I just love thishow Moisha refuses to believe Miriam is funny
and everyone wants Miriam to be asinger. This random guy is just like,
she's nice looking too. You youa singer. It's it's a great

(03:02:26):
running joke. But yeah, thenMidge tells Shirley that m May is stuck
in China because of a revolution.Oh my god, there's this whole thing,
this Joel mess so awkward. Yeah, I just feel bad for Joel.

(03:02:46):
Yeah, but I think I don'tknow. I thought it was kind
of kind of him in a wayto let Shirley go on to think that,
you know, May just miscarried thebaby, and he didn't go into
detail about her choosing to have anabortion. I thought I saw that as

(03:03:07):
him kind of protecting his parents,and that kind of made me appreciate him
a little bit more because I thinkhe's obviously still in a relatively dark place
and struggling with that and it wouldhave been easy for him to tell his
parents and kind of rely on themfor a little bit of support or sympathy.
And the fact that he kind ofkept that to himself. I was

(03:03:30):
like, Okaygel, like, yeah, they're dealing with enough. They're getting
divorced or are they still getting divorced? They don't seem like they're gonna no,
but I don't know. I looklike the glass was removed. Yeah,
that was a touching. That wasreally sad. When Surely comes in

(03:03:50):
with the two little booties, Yeah, it was really sad. Yeah that
got me. They keep making mefeel things for Joel. Yeah they do,
I know, I know. Butthen Joel does things like he says
he doesn't believe in therapy because it'sweak. It's weak to go to a
therapist. And I'm like, Joel, it sounds like my dad. It
was just like damn it, Jeel. Yeah. And then I'm like,

(03:04:13):
you know, he's he's a manof the times, like look at who
his parents are, and like it'sthe sixties, so this is this was
what people, you know, whatpeople thoughts like therapists were quacks even until
kind of recently, like even inlike the eighties, it was still like,
oh, you're seeing an analyst.Honestly, I feel like it's the
ever since the pandemic. It's beenjust like a switch flipped and everybody's like,

(03:04:35):
oh, well my therapist said that, Yeah, my therapist stigma.
The stigma has been kind of lifteda little bit. Yeah, it's kind
of nice. I went I wentback to therapy during that the pandemic myself,
and I'm like, why did Iever stop? Yeah? Yeah,
so let's but let's get into thisShirley moment, because this was great.
This is this was really really funny. Shirley getting trashed at Joel's Button Club,

(03:05:00):
being really annoying and obnoxious, youknow, as you as per usual,
but like so much worse. Um, and she's like handing out rotten
snacks to everyone, just really disturbedthe fact that she had rotten snacks and
her purse. First, I waslike, oh, what is she giving
to those people? Like? Whoare those four? It's like she justn't.

(03:05:24):
Yeah, I know, it mademe question Shureley a little bit.
Um. There's one point though,where she's like just pops her head into
Joel's office and she's like, Ifound the mop that was really funny.
That was great. Yeah, andum she insults missus moscow wits insinuating that
they're like having this inappropriate relationship.And then Missus Moscow it's like, tries

(03:05:46):
to throw down with Shirley and Moi. She's like it sounds like a fair
fight. I'm like, uh,missus Moscowitz is like a tiny person.
She's like half the size of everyhuman you know, I missus moskwooz by
the way. That Um, yes, she's good. Cynthia Darlow. Cynthia
Darlo is the actor who plays Er. She's so funny to me, She's

(03:06:09):
done a lot of voice acting.Um yeah, surely cracked me up there.
Uh and yeah. Then Moist hasthe third the guys who got the
thirteen jew Is out of Germany tryingto get May out of China. Oh
my god, this was weird,so ridiculous. Yeah, I think I

(03:06:30):
I think I had my hand onmy forehead the entire time. I'm like,
no, this is too much,this is too much. Yeah,
I know, Joel tell them tostop. Oh yeah, but they're back
together at the end. And yeah, I don't really have like a whole
lot to say about this plot line. Like, I never really have a
lot to say about Moisten Sureley becausethey're so just over the top, like

(03:06:50):
obnoxious that I don't know, Ifeel like this is like not great.
I'm not a great podcasting host becauseI'm all I have to say is that,
like it was funny ish um.Yeah, I don't know, but
it's just it's so obnoxious, it'sso crazy. I don't think that's what
they're there for. Yeah, therefor that comedic, like they said,
the comedic relief for all the otherbelief basically yea, And they were very

(03:07:13):
sentimental in the end, so itwas it was kind of at least rewarding
at that point. Yeah, itwas kind of simple. You know,
she's now grieving and he's there tosupport her, and at least all of
the truth is out on the tablethat May and Joel are done. So
there's that. Yeah, Joel Joelstoryline is hard for me to take.

(03:07:35):
It's just it's sad. So okay, let's go to Susie. There's something
that happens that's just kind of mentionedbefore we get into the whole rose bit
Um tests calls Susie and she wantsto sing Tests can sing. And I'm
really hoping that this goes somewhere.I'm really hoping that um, what's her

(03:07:56):
name, Emily Burgh, like themost beautiful voice ever. I'm sure.
I think it would be really greatif this, if this, Yeah,
I want to see Tests on stage. I think that this would be really
funny. And now she's like,hey, can you get me a gig?
And and she says Skint has died, her awful husband who Susie hated.

(03:08:18):
He died and and Susie's like what, and she's like, yeah,
it was of natural causes. Sothere's really there was nothing really much to
say. You know. That's whyI didn't tell you he's dead. He's
just he's dead. I'm like,okay, well, I hope to hear
more about that. So Rose comesto get help from Susie. By the

(03:08:39):
way, I love Susie's pet pigeons. They're just always in the window,
but like more inside of her office. I think that that's really great little
detail. So yeah, Dinah hasthe idea to involve Nikki and Frank,
and then they have Benedetta arrested,and another great line from Susie hold on

(03:09:01):
a second that was you. Youburned down the greatest fucking tea room in
the history of tea rooms. Nevermind their tea. Have you had their
whip cream? I don't know howthey do it, whether it's extra cream
or extra sugar or combination of both. Maybe it's the pinch of nutmeg.
God knows. I've tried to makeit at home and failed miserably. But
there's something about that whip cream.I hope you get the fucking chair.
That whole plot line was wild tome. Yes, I wasn't expecting that.

(03:09:28):
Oh my god, did we forgetto do most marvelous moment again of
episode three? That was mine?Um, I don't know, it's it's
late. We're recording. This isa long ass recording. I think this
is like three and a half.We're delusional at this point. It's hard,
guys, it's been all the night. It's now Monday morning. Yeah.
I blame Amazon Prime for dumping threeepisodes on us at once and do

(03:09:50):
other way around this. And we'vehad a lot of technical difficulties tonight in
this recording. So this is great. This is podcasting golds. What's happening
right now. You can expect alot more structure and a lot more sanity
in the future. Uh, butfor now, that's just too much to
ask. So this is you getwhat you get. Yeah. Oh no,
we did do it. Oh didbe wonderful? Yes, we did

(03:10:11):
the most marvelous moment. Yes,yes, because we talked about oh yeah,
and all of mine had to dowith an and that felt like another
podcast. Wow. Okay, I'mdelusional. I think that was an hour
ago. Yeah right, okay,moving on, h someone else talk the
whole Like, obviously, I willnever be sad to see anything involving Kelly

(03:10:37):
Bishop on my screen. I loveKelly Bishop word so much, so much,
best part of Gilmore Girls, bestpart of Bundle, Emily Gilmore,
like just all of it. SoI was really excited when I knew they
were bringing Kelly Bishop back. Butthis whole plotline that Frank what is it?

(03:10:58):
Frank and Nikki, Frankie and Nikki. I always get that Frank Nicky,
Yes, Frank and Nicky, justlike the seriousness of it, Like
one of them is dead, oneof the matchmakers is dead, Oh my
god, right, a heart attack. One is like in hiding, one
has fled the country. And thenyou have like Kelly Bishop in prison and

(03:11:20):
it's just it's insanity. But Iloved it so much. I was like,
this is absurd, And I knowthat a lot of people might not
love that storyline, but it's soPalladino. Yeah. And the fact that
Kelly Bishop is just like this serious, like it's like this war figure,
that Rose is terrified of it justit made me really happy. That may

(03:11:43):
have been my favorite part of theepisode other than Abe and Rose stuff.
Yeah. Yeah, this whole whichconnects to Susie anyway, this whole storyline,
you know, whip cream. Yeah, it's a great thread, so
here for it. Yeah, andI'd second everything you said about Emily Bishop.
She's such a badass as she's likesmoking her cigarette and Susie's like,

(03:12:03):
they just booked you? Why areyou here? Why are you in the
county jail? And she just goesI had priors such a bad You know
that Kelly Bishop loved delivering that line. Yeah, Like I know, she
had so much fun. Oh yeah, she's she's everything. I am kind
of exceeded excited to see if she'lllike pop up a little bit again in

(03:12:26):
the future. Oh I think she'sgot to. Yeah, yeah, I
almost were like, yeah, becauseof Frank and Nicki and the mob ties,
I'm sure, yeah, I'm surethey're kind of what do they expect
in return now too? Like dothey expect more from Midge and Rose?
Possibly? Or is it all gonnago back to Susie? But I was

(03:12:48):
like, this could this could turnvery interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing Rose
interact with Frank and Nicki. Ithink that could be really funny. Oh
yeah, that's totally very much ahope, please, please, and thank
you. That'd be a great presentto have. Yeah, sure, yeah,

(03:13:09):
And what else do we got withSusie? Uh yeah, this whole
I didn't realize Rose had protection.Well she does, and a gun and
she'll use it too. She's notjust gonna wave it around or something.
It's exactly which is exactly what Rosesaid she would do with it. She's
like, I don't want to useit, just waved brandish it, you
know brandish yet and Frankie is orfrank is um no, Nikki he goes,

(03:13:33):
uh, pistol whipping too, andit's a it's a shorter sentence.
He's like, oh that's really good. So yeah, Susie Ice skates and
we're all our our lives are made. Uh, and then she has this
moment with my car. Yeah,kind of comes out of nowhere. And

(03:13:54):
I was wondering if this was earned. I don't know, speak to this
guys, what do you think?Maybe it's it just has their number one
and he's in a good mood becausehe's such a stressed out, uh you
know, talent director, and he'slike, you know what, let's have

(03:14:15):
lunch, let's work together. Maybemaybe. And I also wondered if he
had come to like Midge more respectMidge, because obviously he's around and that
might have something to do with himbeing a little bit more open minded towards
Susie. But I don't know.Yeah, it's well, I don't know

(03:14:37):
what else he's signed for. It'slike I would love to know the extent
of that. And I want toknow how Susie knows his wife. Want
to know how he sports wife?Yes, yes, yeah, there's a
lot of things that I can't waitto see with Susie, like so many
so much groundwork has been laid thatthey're that they haven't followed through on yet,

(03:15:01):
Like you know, Alfie and thisnew comic guy, James, which
we saw for two seconds that Dinahfound you know, that that other comic
guy, where is he? Ishe coming back in? There are weird
characters that we haven't seen. Imean, we've only gotten three episodes,
but still, like, did Ialready say where the fuck is imaging?
I feel very worried that we're notgoing to get any imaging. I think

(03:15:24):
I feel like if we haven't seenimaging yet, then there must be something
where they couldn't get the actor,Um, what's her name? Trying Bailey
DeYoung? She must have been busyor something. I don't know that we're
going to see her this season becausethey dropped that hole she's abe secretary.
That's completely gone. We would haveseen her in the office, you know,

(03:15:45):
they've they've shown um, they've shownArchie a lot, and they've even
shown Archie talking on the phone inhis home, but no imaging there.
They very easily could have and shouldhave and would have put her in a
scene, you know. So thefact that she's not there bums me out.
But I don't know. I don'thave a lot of hope that I

(03:16:07):
don't have a lot of faith thatwe're going to get imaging this season,
which sucks. But yeah, welland I do. I don't know.
I feel like I'm willing to sacrificea little bit of those side characters that
I enjoy so much to see morefleshed out, with Susie in particular.
Yeah, and just because did youguys want to go ahead? Sorry,

(03:16:28):
I'll just say I guess spoiler alertif people aren't paying attention to what the
episode titles are in the future.But one of the things I notice is
the next episode that's due to comeout is called Susan, and I am
just like salivating at the thought ofit being a Susie Center. Yes,
all about Susie and getting to findout more so, like, as I've

(03:16:52):
been watching already the first three,I'm bummed that we're not seeing as many
of these side characters that we love. But I'm like, Okay, at
least give me like a fully fleshedout Susie and fully fleshed out Midge in
the future, Like I want toat least get that. Yeah, good
point, especially since Susie said hername was just Susie, not Susan m

(03:17:16):
And I was like, are theytricking us? Because that would be rude.
They m they've been rude with thoseflash forwards though, seriously, man,
I could feel it though, Ican feel that we got Susie come
in. You know, have youguys noticed that, like so much of
the Susie Midge stuff has just beenlike them talking on the phone, Susie

(03:17:37):
in her office, Like I don'tlove that either. You know, they're
starting to not like in person.Yeah, they're starting to separate. Well,
because she's getting Susie's getting busier,he's getting He's feeling a little bit
more success in her own business andhas more people in her business. She's
now got associates, and Midge isjust working. Yeah, that's that's true.

(03:17:58):
I feel like we got more withSusie and Rowe was close closeness and
Susie and the family and everything,then Susie and Midge. Yeah, I
know I miss it though. Imiss Susie and Midge and then they're womance.
But yeah, I wonder if likeBenedetta, since she said, like
Rose can have the Upper West Sidebetween one hundred twenty fifth and sixtieth or

(03:18:18):
something, and you know, shecould take Hell's kitchen if she wants it,
but she better would she say boneup on her limericks and and and
something else? Um, but yeah, I wonder if like that was a
lie or I don't know. Itjust seemed like she relented very quickly,
Benedetta, Like she just said,okay, fine, sure you can have
the Upper west Side, go forit, Like yeah, really that was

(03:18:39):
quick. Um. I wonder iflike she'll get out of jail and like
come for Susie or something. Idon't know, maybe it could be interesting.
We'll see, Susie has a knackfor getting herself into a bit of
a bit of trouble, so mm, that's true. Also bonding with
her kidnappers and then yeah, right, I loved that. Do you guys

(03:19:01):
have anything more to say about anyof these three episodes? Or shall we
wrap her up? I think we'vewe've noted it out. I think we
did a really good job of kindof fleshing out those three very full episodes.
Yes, yeah, for sure,all right there, Yeah there was

(03:19:22):
a lot, so sorry listeners,if we've missed anything, we'll cover it
again in our next episode, forsure. But that's going to finish our
discussion of the first three episodes ofThe Marvelous Missus Masil season five. Ah,
we usually would go into our newssegment here, but for this podcast,
since it's super long already and there'sso much news, we need a

(03:19:43):
whole nother week to go through itall. We're gonna do news next time.
We're gonna have a good long newssection to go to. So now
let's get to my favorite part ofthe podcast, our listener feedback. Yeah,
so Erica, you want to takethat first one? Sure, so,
Lisa's Silver's took let's say tav levskiing. Excuse me if I mispronounced

(03:20:05):
that I was pleasantly surprised that theydropped three episodes. Me too. I
totally binge watched. I loved thepleasantly surprised and also as a podcaster or
terrified. Yes, indeed, welike kind of all went oh my god,
when like, what are we gonnado? I love the opening scene
with a flash forward. I lovethe craziness of Esther, who doesn't need

(03:20:26):
a therapist when it comes to theirmother. Gibson Frasier did an excellent job
as her therapist. This guy's agreat actor. He's got such personality,
such a talent, such a talent. The interaction between the two left me
wanting more. What a great wayto open the show. The flashboard with
her son was interesting. Is soonto be bride? Seems controlling a lot
like his mother yet cold. Ilove how the kids are now front and

(03:20:50):
central this season. Most time kidsare just props. I'm in for this
journey. I really wish this wasn'tthe last season. There's a lot of
story to tell. You are socorrect, and thank you so much for
bringing us information about the therapist.He was great. He was just kind
of like following esther long and justtrying to bring her back to reality the
whole time. Yeah. Yeah,but they're so right about that. He

(03:21:11):
did an excellent job. He isa great actor. Yep, I love
that. I love that you calledthat out, Lisa. You're great.
Yeah, keep doing it. Welove those things things. See. This
is why I love listener feedback,because anything we missed, the listeners will
catch it. Please feel free tocatch what we miss guys. We have
another bit of feedback from another LisaKara. You want to take that one?

(03:21:33):
Sure, so, Lisa Edmondson Walkersays, I'm so happy this season
started, though I should have rewatchedthe last episode again. Before starting season
five. The flash forwards are reallyintriguing, between the way the kids have
turned out to the position and attitudeMiriam has in the future. So many
comments about parenting. I'm super curiousabout some of the things they've teased in

(03:21:56):
the flash forwards and what happens thisseason. Speaking of parents, Miriam and
Joel both have such oblivious parents andcarry that on as parents and people themselves.
That is very true. Abe tellingpoor Ethan terrible stories to get him
to go to bed. It wasso funny and awful at the same time.

(03:22:16):
Agreed. Abe reminds me of myex husband that worked at a university.
He's hyper focused on things that nobodyelse cares about, completely convinced that
he's perfect, and driving everyone aroundhim crazy, and that's why we love
him. Susie Meyerson is my favoritecharacter, though Miriam is a close second.

(03:22:39):
I really liked May, but I'mnot sure she'll be back. I've
also enjoyed Lenny Bruce and his interactionswith Miriam. The actors are all doing
such a fantastic job bringing these charactersto life. Thank you for covering this
show. I can't wait to hearthe show and I agree, Lisa.
They really are doing a fantastic jobbringing them to life. I could watch

(03:23:01):
them all day long, all daya long day. I've said it already,
I'll say it again. Yep,give me that spin off, Give
me the ABE, give me theAbe Susie Rose spinoff. Please? Oh
yeah, please please? Yes?What? Oh? Okay? Um yeah,

(03:23:22):
I was just thinking, like,what if they were like stranding on
a desert island together, that wouldbe a really great spinoff. Yeah,
so okay. Thank you first ofall to all our amazing listeners for listening,
but for sending us your feedback myLisa's Lisa's both forgetting Edmondson Walker and
Silver Televski. You guys make meso happy. If anyone's listened to any

(03:23:45):
of my podcasts ever before, youknow, I love feedback. It's truly
no matter how you guys feel,either positive or negative, we want to
know about it. And I hopethat we did not piss you off to
vad with the fact that we reallyliked the I mean, with the fact
that you guys really like the flashforwards, and we clearly did not.
Sorry, I hope it wasn't toomuch of a downer and I didn't hate

(03:24:09):
it. Oh god, I don'tknow. We'll see, we'll see how
I feel like we're just thinking aboutit so much and just it's like,
yeah, we don't look at Midgein a terrible light. But it's kind
of it's being foresaid right in thebeginning of the episode. But hey,
but like I said, I'm trustingthe process. I'm trusting that there's method
behind the madness. So you know, I'm holding on my hope. But

(03:24:31):
yeah, whatever your feedback is,whatever you guys have to say, please
let us know. This is ajudgment free zone. And yeah, for
me, the feedback is really whatmakes all the work that goes into podcasting
worth it. You know, it'sreally better than a paycheck, and podcasting
doesn't really pay anything, So payme and feedback. But if you really
don't want to do that, ifyou really don't want, if you prefer

(03:24:52):
to just be a listener, Itotally understand. You can still contribute though,
by downloading the episodes, subscribing tothe podcast, share the po podcast
with other Missus Masel lovers because thereare many, and they might not know
that we're here, because there's neverbeen a Missus Mazel podcast really before a
couple of little things, but nota whole lot, surprisingly, So yeah,

(03:25:13):
tell people about us, and yeah, leave us a rating in a
review on Apple Podcasts. We werejust getting started, so that really helps.
And I don't expect you to doall these things, but bonus points
if you do. Yeah, youcould just do one of these things that
would make us very very happy podcasters, So please and thank you. Krak

(03:25:33):
Okay, So, if you guysdo have feedback that you want to share
with us, there are a fewways you can reach out. You can
send us an email or even better, a voice message at Perfectly Marvelous Podcast
at gmail dot com. Or youcan go to our Facebook page where we
will put up a post every weekfor each episode at facebook dot com slash

(03:25:56):
Podcastica, and you can leave acomment there for us to read on the
podcast. Yes, all right,my friends, I think that will do
it. I have had truly amarvelous time with you two tonight, and
I thank you, my dear listeners, for joining us. Don't forget to
subscribe to the podcast and come backnext week when we'll be covering episode four

(03:26:18):
Susan of the Marvelous Missus Measel Seasonfive. I'm Kara, I'm America,
and I'm Jade. Thank you,Edie Night.

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