S5E4 "Susan"

Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
Well, hey there you, Yes, I mean you have You just finished
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to the podcast. I'm Jade,I'm Kara, and I'm America, and
this is Perfectly Marvelous, a podcastdedicated to the award winning Amazon Prime show
The Marvelous Missus Mazel. Today weare covering season five, episode four,
Susan, written and directed by AmySherman Palladino. Oh yeah, and a

(01:27):
kid. I can't wait to getinto it, guys. But before we
do, for the discussion, wehave a couple of little housekeeping things.
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further ado, Let's start the show. All right, Tits up, bitches,

(05:57):
tits up, if you got titsin there, This marvelous girl in
my pocket and when living together aroundhaving a marvelous time. Okay, So
let's kick it off with the mostmarvelous moment of episode four Dogs. Yes,

(06:19):
but isn't that marvelous Erica? Allright? For away? So,
so I had to think about thisthere is quite a few marvelous moments,
but I had to think about ourour Susie. M hmm, just Susan,

(06:40):
Susan already hear her called Susan.I had to think about like this,
this, this, this, thisentire episode of like what a shitty
day she was having. And Isaw this article and it was a quote
from Alex Berntein and said, Um, if space weren't an issue, I
would have named this episode Susie Myersonin a terrible, horrible, no good,
very bad day. I thought thatwas it kind of souls it up,

(07:02):
poor poor Susie. True, itreally was, But I think the
moment that kind of like just madeit so marvelous was just like we got
that that big deep reveal about like, you know, her past, when
she she was you know, confrontedby Hetty and finally and she just acted
the shit out of that scene.The heartbreak was across her face at betrayal,

(07:25):
the loss, and Hetty is justlike you could see why she fell
for her. She's just like thiskind of upbeat, bubbly, like you
know, it seems like she justwants to live and and just couldn't see
how much of an impact that sheshe like left on on a poor Susie,
And I'm glad Susie kind of like, you know, put her in

(07:46):
her place and left her there.But it was it was very heartbreaking.
But I was just blown away byAlex Bournstein's performance. It was just incredible
as always. Man agreed, shegives me the shivers every time. I
yes, I mean think I feltmore in that scene in the last like
what two minutes of the episode thanI did for honestly, like the first

(08:09):
four episodes of the season. Iknow, I know, I mean,
I will yeah, go ahead,no, no, go ahead. I
was gonna say, I will alwaysremember the moment that Susie did the speech
at Jackie's funeral, and I can'twatch it. I cannot watch that.
And that's my favorite episode of theshow ever, that whole at that episode

(08:31):
as a whole, that episode whereJackie they went to Jackie's funeral, But
I can never watch that moment withoutcrying. And no matter how many times
I watch it, she gets meevery time. Absolutely. I have a
feeling we might have some more ofthose moments coming up in this season.
It could be rough. I thinkso too. I think so too,
and I just wanted to mention againand it just kind of transitioned into it.

(08:54):
So they used Joan Jets I hatemyself for loving you, which could
happen up been more perfect, youknow, um anthema of like you know,
fuck you and that past relationship thatjust like totally destroyed you. But
it was Yeah, it was perfect, Yeah, perfect. I'm like the
last line, the last line thatSusie says to Hetty is with a quiver

(09:15):
of tears in her voice, likeyou look good as a blonde, Like
I'm not doing it justice, butthe way that she delivers that line,
and like her voice just cracks justa tiny bit. I'm like, Alex,
Alex Sporci, and how do youust to me? How do you
do it? Seriously, the emotionthat she fit into that one line,
I was just like, son ofa bitch, this is going to be
painful later, probably it really is. It really really is. Oh yes,

(09:39):
all right, painful later. It'spainful now. But you know,
m still I'm gonna have a hardtime giving up on her, like not
giving up, but giving her upas a character that we always get to
visit, Like, I love hercharacter so much. M Yeah, I
think that, actually I know that. I'm thinking about it. I'm like,
man, is my most marvelous momentthat very last line like might be

(10:00):
because now I'm looking now, I'mlooking at my most marvelous moment, and
I'm like, it's yeah, it'smarvelous. But for a different reason.
I don't know, Kara, youyou go, what's your most marvelous?
Well, and that's I had ahard time picking between you know, that
whole exchange with Susie and Hetty atthe end, but I ended up going
with one of the Abe moments becauseit stood out to me so much.

(10:24):
And I think it stood out tome even more because this is a show
and Amy Sherman Palladino is known forthe talking like how much dialogue it is
fit into each episode, like howlong the scripts are? And Abe apologizing
to Rose by gathering up those rossthank you, thank you guy, yep

(10:46):
lost it like this this is amajor contender for me, right like it
marvelous moments, and when I rewatchedit, it hit me even more because
obviously, I'm sure we're going totalk about that dinner scene after the play,
which was atrocious in so many wayson Abe's behalf to go from this

(11:07):
you know, kind of painfully awkwardscene where you can tell that Rose was
not feeling great about Abe because hehad been a little pretentious and condescending.
And then they come home and getsslapped in the face by romance basically with
Zelda and Janus being engaged. LikeI just loved everything about that scene,

(11:28):
them showing them silently and getting readyfor bed and then laying apart in their
little twin beds, and you couldtell Abe was just like waiting for the
moment for Zelda and jan used togo to bed, went outside and gathered
up all of those rose petals.Like I just thought he and Rose,
like both of them did such anamazing job conveying so much in that scene

(11:52):
with zero dialogue. And when hegoes over, you know, he gets
back in bed, finally gets upand goes and puts his head into a
lap, and she kind of hesitatesfor a second and starts to put her
hand on his head just kind ofyou know, Okay, I forgive you.
Like I thought it was just kindof the perfect Abe apology because we
know how hard it is for himto admit and accept when he's wrong.

(12:15):
We saw that with the whole Oh, It's impossible. It is actually physically
impossible for Abe to acknowledge that hecould ever be wrong. Remember remember last
episode when he was like saying howhe's never been wrong ever in his life
in school, He's like, Imight have gotten something wrong in kindergarten,
but there are no records of mytime there. I checked. I just

(12:37):
thought, I think with anybody elsehe would not acknowledge that he did wrong
or hurt anybody's feelings. But withRose, I think that was huge of
him. So I think that definitelywas my most marvelous moment. That was
my Oh. I was going tojust say that was also the one I
was like, I love that,and I was going to just say I

(12:58):
related so much because my husband hasa very hard time as well, and
my husbands happens to be Lebanie justlike Tony Shaloub, And I'm like,
and I when that moment happened,we looked at each other and I'm like,
you're ape? Are you? Areyou the ape to my Rose?
You know what's funny, though,America, you are very rosy. Now

(13:18):
that I'm thinking about it, I'mlike maybe that's can I love you so
much because my cave? But no, I agree it was it was so
I mean, I was like furiousthat Abe, and I blaze, like,
good for you Rose for standing upfor yourself and putting Abe in his
place. But you're right that thesilence was just like louder than words could

(13:39):
possibly be. I also want tonote for the listeners at home that can't
see us on zoom, is thatErica blushed slightly and it was adorable.
It was she can like she canblush on que It's like such a rare
talent. Thank you. I didplay Rosie and Cabaret, mind you there

(14:01):
you go. Yes, of coursethat's a whole different Rose, a whole
different ros Yes. I have acouple of thoughts about that, but we'll
save it for when we get tothat momentum in our breakdown. So I'll
jump in with my most marvelous momentnow. I will say I did predict
this on our last episode, butit was not that hard of a prediction,

(14:22):
Okay, I mean it was prettyham fisted into the episode, like
Tess is on the phone for ahot second with Susie talking about her singing
ability, We're like, this isprobably going somewhere, you know, like
yeah, And you could say thatthat's like a you know, very obvious
um foreshadowing whatever. Some may callit obvious or clunky storytelling. I call

(14:46):
it making my dreams come true.That's what I call it, absolutely because
tests as the garbage lady, youguys was giving me life and a half.
Okay, I want to pick,like I I struggle to pick this
as my most marvelous moment. Itwas a close I was a close call.

(15:07):
There were so many other great moments, so it's like, I just
want to say everything about this ismy most marvelous moment. And I kind
of don't want to get into itall right now because it's such a big
part of like the breakdown and everything, but I do just want to say
there was a moment within this bigmoment where she she um, I forget

(15:28):
the actual line that she is singing, but she like her legs are kind
of spread open, and she likereaches down to her ankles and like sexually
gropes herself, like running her handsup and up her thighs, and then
she grabs this very clearly empty winebottle and just like swings it back and
like, that's the moment that Ithink I just died. You know,

(15:52):
that was gold. And for anyonewho who listened to Are Dead to Me
podcast or my poker Face podcast,we would always call this moment our moment
to die for. And that's alwaysthe way I go about it is when
I picked this moment, is like, what moment did I just die?
Die in the best way? Andthat moment when tests like sexually suggestively touched
herself and then swigged that wine,that empty wine bottel. She is so

(16:15):
committed to this performance. Oh mygod, I can't I can't wait to
get it. That production value waspretty high, so high, so high.
It was so good I can't wait. Okay, let's get into it
starting. Okay, So listeners,how we're going to go about this breakdown
for this recap is we're just goingto take all the moments chronologically as the

(16:40):
scenes go, and we're each goingto kind of like take turns starting off
our thoughts. So, who wouldlike to go first with this opening musical
number with the flowers and the gardenersat the New York City? So I
could about that go for it?I mean one I love a Palladino fever
dream musical moment, and I feellike anybody that watched Gilmore Girls A Year

(17:03):
in the Life should not be surprisedthat this is happening in the show,
because just seeing this episode and thinkingabout all the musical moments, I had
the stars hollow the musical stuck inmy head all day. But of course
we know Amy Sherman Palladino, itloves musical theater. We know her really,
she was a dancer, you know. Yeah, like she's fabulous and

(17:26):
her Sutton Foster. Bringing Sutton andChristian borrel In back in Gilmore Girls A
Year in the Life. I justfeel I wonder how people who are not
musical theater nerds feel about this episode, because I'm feeling like they're not gonna
love it. But I could notget enough of it, especially the opening,
like it was just so fantastical,the costumes and everything, Like the

(17:52):
production value, like you said,was pretty outstanding considering it was an industrial
show. But as we'll learn later, that's not so rare. But I
just I was all in immediately assoon as the show started. Yeah,
when those men dancing with the leafblowers like blew up the girls skirts and

(18:14):
the tulips at the end, likeonce they cut, it's like can't we
just crouch? Like why do wehave to get all the way on the
ground. Like it was just itmade me so happy. And then it
was like a theater in the roundwhere it was just spinning and you just
diday, yeah, look it was. It was beautiful, but it was
just a weird hodgepodge of like nowand again, I didn't watch Gilmore Girls,
but I'm like, how many differentcultural references can you throw in?

(18:36):
Are you up? Marilyn Monroe atthese tulips? It was great. It
was so yeah, definitely if youI will say, oh, come on,
I was gonna say I was watchingthis on the plane. I went
back to Houston this weekend, andas soon as this started, there were
like three middle aged men in thevicinity and I could see them all kind
of like tilt their heads at myscreen. I was just like, at

(19:00):
least it's eye catching. Yes,obviously, such colors are like, yeah,
the colors are like, you know, they could not be brighter and
more beautiful, vibrant, vibrant,this this is this is truly the show
is truly a feast, feast forthe senses, for the eyes and ears.
Absolutely, I love the the Ijust want to like sing these songs.

(19:26):
They're so catchy and like the bestway they're like thanks to New York
City Turf and lens shape pros.Everything grows, That's how it goes.
Everything grows. So it's like allof these musical advertisements for New York City
maintenance people at this Expo Center,and I like, at first, on

(19:48):
first watch, I was like,oh, that's so, you know,
unrealistic, Like I love this,but how unrealistic is that? Like these
Broadway level performers doing you know thesethis Expo Center at vertisements. No,
apparently this was a thing. Yeah, it turns out it's very realistic.
Actually, yeah, there's um documentariesabout this on YouTube. I don't know

(20:11):
if you guys were able to likelook into this at all. I know
I was texting you guys being like, I don't know how to properly articulate
how big of a thing this wasin like the fifties, sixties. I
think, especially in the sixties,these like live shows that were advertisements and
real Broadway singers, you know,chorus people would be involved. So this

(20:32):
was this was like Fossey Fossey big. Yeah. I just like I thought
of it initially before you had sentany of those YouTube videos or we had
any background. I was like,okay, so this is this like a
car show on the weekend or somethinglike that sort of equivalent. And because
obviously like Midge and Susie did notseem thrilled with it at all, but

(20:53):
realizing just how big it was,especially in New York, that put it
all into perspective. Yeah, yep, it was. It was a thing
like one of those bridal expos that'sbeen like you know, blown out to
like, you know, if wewanted to modernize it, that's probably true.
And I just thought of like Ithink I told I texted earlier that

(21:15):
it just seemed kind of like SuperBowl commercial big to me, like that
the event where you know, youhave that one chance to make your company
memorable and make your product memorable,and just so happened they did it with
you know, like tap dancing andsinging. Yeah. And that's why this

(21:37):
I love like fifties sixties commercials um. I just get such a kick out
of them. The way that everythingwas produced, like produced as such a
heightened reality, isn't life wonderful?Hey they're housewives? Do you need some
soap? Like? That's why theintro to this podcast is me doing that
super cheesy. I just want tolive in that world. I feel like
my voice as I'm a voiceover actorand my voice naturally lends itself to being

(22:00):
a fifties announcer person. It's likethe happy place my voice wants to live
in all the time. I'm justnow like I'm I don't know how I
was. I am like a modernday thirty something woman who is deep down
inside a use car salesman from thesixties. That is obviously like that idyllic

(22:23):
version of the fifties and sixties thatwe know. You know, there was
a lot of sinister under lying issues, but the happy part of it,
the commercial part of it, iskind of fun. Yeah, it's like
fun to the pleasing. Yeah,and it's and it's fun to look back
on in a way that's like,Dan, that's kind of creepy, but

(22:45):
it's like it's awe inspiring. Itjust I don't know, it's it's yeah,
different times. I have to besomething pleasant to come out of those.
That's probably why we like the moviepleasant. Phil's true. Yeah,
that is such a good movie.Yes it is. I have to watch
that. I love it so much. But it does kind of show the
idealistic kind of beautiful it's it seemsto be wonderful, but really deep down

(23:08):
it's it shows all the ugliness behindit, but definitely well, I think,
yeah, go ahead. Yeah.I was kind of kind of transition
into Frankie and Nikki asking me fora favor for it after realizing how big
of a deal these industrial shows were. It made my stomach hurt even more

(23:30):
thinking about like how Susie and Midgemaybe didn't take it seriously enough. And
I'm sure we'll get to it lateron once Midge does her thing on stage
the second time. But when Frankie, I keep saying, Frankie, frank
and Nikki, we're asking for afavor. The first watch, I was

(23:51):
just like, oh, okay,of course, like she should have expected
that they were going to have todo something. But the second watch,
the second time around, I waslike, Susie, you better listen to
them. Yeah, and then ajoke. Midge knew about it right from
the beginning. She was like,I know his word, yeah, yeah,
and when we'll get to it ina minute, when Midge and Susie

(24:14):
have that phone call and Midge islike, I know what payback is or
reciprocation means. Do they know whatreciprocation means? Like Midge, Midge is
aware of what's going on right now. So yeah, Sogan, Nikki,
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.I was just gonna say, they brought
me back to what was that episodewhen um she she got her office to
Susie Myerson associates. Oh yeah,and that's when, really, honestly,

(24:37):
Frank and Nicki said like, youknow that there is going to be some
type of payback, you know,yeah, you'll you'll do us a favorite
down the line, Like it wasalready planted right there that they were giving
something and they were expecting some typeof payback and it wasn't going to be
one time deal. She wasn't evenpaying attention. That was some willful ignorance
on Susie's part there, like you'rejust going to shove this down on until

(25:00):
I have to deal with it.Yep. So the lead guy dropped out
of their show. They're they're producingthis musical at building New York Expo.
How who knows. Uh. Therethere, they got their hands in all
kinds of different places, you know. Um, and they're pressuring Susie to
do them a favor. They flasha paper two hundred that says two hundred

(25:26):
on it, and Susie's like,that is a very nice number. And
apparently two hundred dollars in nineteen sixty, according to the inflation calculator, is
a little over two thousand today dollars. It's so pretty good for two shows.
Yeah, the two shows I gavetwo shabby. I would be thrilled
to get this gig if I werebad, especially, I have to memorize

(25:48):
the line. She just had itbright. It bothered me so much that
she was not off script. Iwas really bothered by that. That made
me think of Actually, Jade andEric. I don't know if you watch
poker Face, but they're at onepoke. You don't know episode. You
don't know if I watched poker Face. No, I meant Eric, I
know you watched them. Oh no, I actually guess posted on one of

(26:11):
those episodes I love right. Yes, there was the dinner party one where
Gosh, I help, I can'tremember her name, but she's looking at
the millennial actress and she's just likewhat is that and looking at her with
her script in her hand. Ohyes, I thought of yes, Oh
my gosh. She's like, yeah, put that script away, get it?

(26:32):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes I did. Like Frank
listing off, you know, allthe favors that he's done for Susie.
He's like, you know that notkilling you that time, and she's like,
that was a good favor. It'slike, yeah, that's pretty important.
Yeah, yeah, that they saydangerous people. Yeah, I mean

(26:52):
they got her an amazing time Squareoffice furnished and then not killing you that
time, Yeah, that was goodfavor. The blood scene yeah yeah,
I mean Susie had to do alot to that place to fix it up,
but they helped her, you know, like they they Yeah, that's
that's a pretty big favor that theydid for Susie. And yeah, we'll
get to we'll get to more ofthat. So then we go to Midge

(27:17):
at this office hangover party, whichwas amazing. Now, since watching this,
there's an interview with David Muller,the cinematographer, on YouTube and it's
called um It's what is I'm gonnalink the YouTube video in the show notes
so you guys can check it outlisteners, because it is so cool to

(27:38):
hear the cinematographer talk about what hedoes on this show because they have truly
perfected the what they call warners longone take scenes beautiful, utiful, and
now I'm so aware of it,especially after watching that that YouTube video.
And this episode is like the closestthing will ever get to the marvelous Missus

(28:00):
Maizel the musical, which I wishwas an actual Broadway thing. Maybe it
will be one day, I will. I mean, I hope, so
ship it, man, I'd totallygo to that. I'd buy tickets.
And most background actors on the showare dancers. And because the camera,
they say, needs specific timing,so the blocking is like choreography, and

(28:22):
a choreographer actually comes in and helpswhoever is directing that week's episode. They
help them direct the Yeah, theyhelp them block out the scene because they
count it like music with where thecamera swings around and moves around, and
they have this incredible crane. Withthis, they basically will like swing the
camera on a crane and then seamlesslyduring the long take, detached the camera

(28:48):
from the crane without jerking it aroundtoo much or whatever. I don't know
how camera people do it. Iknow I as an actor myself. I've
been on a lot of sets whereI and watching the camera operator, the
you know, the DP, thecinematographer, these people, and I'm They're
doing like this superhuman effort. I'min awe of camera people. I just

(29:12):
don't know how how do they doit? It is incredible um and rarely
on television do scenes not cut afterjust a few lines of dialogue. It
is incredibly rare for a scene togo minutes without cutting, I mean,
and this show does it on theregular. They do the impossible constantly.

(29:34):
I mean, I just this thisshow deserves all the awards, all of
them. It's just layers and layersof little conversations and little tippets like you
would see the the the ice skatesin the air and people just passed out,
and then yeah, people people liftingaround the office. Funny, the
girl hobbling by with one ice skates, yeah, like what you know,

(30:00):
the girl showing up with her clotheson backwards and just you get too large.
The secretary. I love this woman. She's played by the actress.
Her name is Annie Golden, whichis a great name. She's funny,
and she's looking at this girl like, honey, everything's on backwards. Take
two, she's handing out like ahair of the dog. Check in Station

(30:21):
was so good and even that dialoguein that scene was so seamless, like
with all of the writers commiserating beinglike, you know, did we all
kiss Betty Porter last night? Comingin like like she had a baby last
Tuesday, and I loved I can'tremember his name, the alb Rider coming
in, Yes, yeah, didyou know Betty Porter was pregnant? And

(30:42):
he immediately goes, what are youinsinuating? Yes? Why? But I
lost it with that one. Iwas like, that was an excellent,
excellent. It was a really goodscene. They were playing the song was
Heaven Can Wait? That was playingin the background. I looked bit into
it because I'm like, I knowthat song, but I'm like trying to
think about like how that tied intothis scene of like Hangover City, and

(31:06):
it's like, you know, likeyou had this like taste of paradise on
an earthly plane and all this,and I'm like, you know, it
was so funny and just kind oflike all right, they just kind of
indulged too much and they're paying nowclever. It's really good, and I
can I just say I really enjoyedMidge's outfit during this scene. The blue

(31:26):
dress with the beige detail, andthat amazing red white and gray or red
blue and gray hat. It Ifucking love the sixties, man. I
love of her clothes. I don'tthink she's ever had a miss with any
of her clothes. I just Idon't even know how I could possibly rate
her clothes. She looked gorgeous.This was one of my favorite looks ever.

(31:48):
It was so good. I hadthat hat. Oh I want that
hat. I want to wear itnow, give me that. It's like,
what was y'all's favorite kind of hungovermoment? I? Oh, man,
I think that like the idea thatI mean, the fact that it
was all one huge take, oneday long take, that was what I

(32:10):
was so focused on. It waspretty impressive. It was so impressive,
and I actually one of my favoritemoments is that when it swings back around
to that woman sitting with her feetup at the desk and she just like
picks up the phone rings and thenhangs it up and it goes That got
me every time I did love.I think my favorite thing was hearing them

(32:30):
in the background all the writers lateron that like slow drawn out version of
you know, the kaison roll slurringKaren, you read my mind. I
like every time I catch something inmy notes and I'm just about to say
it like you say it, Iyeah that you do that. Great minds
there. I have the same thing. I have the same thing. The

(32:52):
only other thing I just wanted tonotice. And I don't know if it
was intentional or not, is thatlike Mitch is just like serving out the
coffee to everybody, And I feltlike she was kind of redirecting in that
female kind of role again, likeserving the men, which I got a
little snarky in my head. Yeah, I was like, of course Midge

(33:12):
is the one going around giving allof them coffee. Oh yeah, it's
also the smart one who's not howeverat work, Yes, she's like,
man, can no one here holdthere like her like Midge, you know,
breezes in fresh as a daisy.Yeah, because she's Midge, and
this is who she is. Sheis overachieving on the regular. She doesn't
know any other way to be,and it is it's like easy for her

(33:35):
and she was raised too. Yes, Rose taught her. Well, my
Rose, she knows and and it'slike I watched women like this in everyday
life in on television, and Ihate these women. I'm like, fuck
you, bitch. I love Midgethough I don't know. I mean,
I don't always love Midge. We'llget there, umable, but this aspect

(34:00):
of Midge, like it doesn't botherme. I love that she's so perfect
it it's Rachel Brosnahan. She sellsit. I'm buying, Oh yeah,
buying what she's selling. All right, let's get to um. Midge and
Gordon's little talk a little on theset of Gordon Show. I love when
Midge walks in Gordon's like sliding backand forth in his chair. Yeah,

(34:23):
and she's like, you know that'syou know, that's a lot more fun
with a girl. Yeah. Butshe brings the innuendo into him like with
him too. That was one thingI think that was very intentional on there,
but like she's not completely you know, shutting him down. After all,
the reason that he was married wasnumber ten on her list as to

(34:46):
why they should be together. Yep, I was so. It was so
Gordon's acting gross as as he does. Um he but he wants to make
sure Midge is okay with the kissand the lips touching moment or whatever he

(35:07):
says, and he just proceeds toask Midge out on a date. And
I hate the only reason that well, okay, I don't think that.
I think that this is just thereason that Midge gives him is because he's
married. Is basically the only reason. I'm like, what about the fact
that he's like an asshole? Iwant her to like say that to him,
but you can't say like you're myboss or I want to be on

(35:30):
your show, but not like you'reYeah, that's true, that's true.
Yeah. Yeah, I just feellike, um, she never really well,
yeah, this is what I don'treally mean it because you can't say
things like truthfully to Gordon about himself. We all know how that went last
time. He doesn't hear it,you know, And I remember the last
time she didn't get fired right andright, and the only reason she didn't

(35:52):
is because he wants to. Yeah, I lovely, Yeah, but also
I mean there might be a littlebit of perfect essionalism still trying to kind
of keep that that she does realizethat he is the boss and she wants
to be on the show, soshe's going to play his game and not
you know, go too far.Yeah, at first, like watching it

(36:15):
and hearing him say, you know, it's a very specific kind of marriage.
We have an understanding. I feellike one we could obviously take it
as he's in an open marriage andthey're just, you know, very free
and embracing the sixties. And Ithink that Midge refers to it as an

(36:37):
open marriage later, yes, Andbut then my first thought I was like,
Okay, well, if Hetty wasromantically involved with Susie, then maybe
it's more of a of a beardsituation where she doesn't feel comfortable being out
completely, so they have this arrangement. And now I'm just not sure.

(36:57):
Yeah, it could possible be alittle bit of both that would make sense.
Yeah, and he does, Imean, he really did seem I
believed him when he said, mywife's a great lady. I love her.
So maybe she's been open with himand he's got you know, he's
you have your life, I havemine. Still doesn't make me super comfortable

(37:19):
with the fact that he's Mitch's bossthough, now, and it also doesn't
really I mean, what does heget out of it? Like, he
could have anybody he wants, whetherhe was married to her or not.
So it's it's kind of it's abeard for her, But what is it
a beard for him? So well, it's a beard for him in the
way that he is a rascal andhe ate a rake as they would say,

(37:45):
I'm um, yeah, it giveshim that appearance of, you know,
being a household family man and everythinglike that as opposed to this bachelor.
I guess I'm assuming that's what hewould get out of it, right,
Like I get the sense that Gordonis just one of those guys who

(38:05):
isn't He's not the marrying kind andhe could never be with just one person
and be faithful to them. Andso by marrying Hetty, who, as
I'm thinking, is this is abeard situation, then she is able to
have her relationship or many relationships whatever, however committed or not committed, she

(38:27):
wants to be with her significant others. And then he gets to kind of
play the field forever and be happybeing his rakish self. But I think
that Gordon, this just goes toshow, it just reinforces what an asshole
Gordon really is because the only reason, well, we'll get there, actually,

(38:52):
we'll get there later. I'm justgonna say. Midge says that it
would complicate her quest to be onhis show, and he says nothing about
his rule as of yet, heclaims, so she's too pretty casually left
that out. Yeah, it's sucha big rule. I was like,
you could have thrown that out there, Gordon, But he wants her to
keep her around. Oh yeah,yeah, he doesn't want to upset her,

(39:12):
and Midge doesn't take it seriously.I think she assumes that she'll get
a shot on his show. Youknow, this is kind of just like
playful conversation. So then Midge getsa phone call. Susie's on the phone,
Susie's under the impression that this onefavor will count as payback and then
they will be even, and Midgeis like, sweet summer child like Susie.

(39:34):
No, Susie, there is noway. And I think I'm shocked
that it's funny to me because Susieis the street smart one out of these
two. It seems like Susie shouldbe well aware of how this kind of
shit rolls, and Midge is theone who is more worldly in her knowledge
when it comes to Frank and Nickiand Susie has these weird blind spots of

(39:58):
her awareness levels very rarely because herjob is like to be aware of other
people, and she's good at herjob. She spots talent, she zeroes
in on it. She can seea diamond in the rough. She sees
what other people miss. But whenit comes to her own fat being in
the fire man Susie Man Susie,Susie needs a manager is what she needs.

(40:19):
She needs like a financial advisor,like bad and Dinah is not that
I'm sorry, I love you Dinah, but Dinah she's a little too space
Kidetie to be helpful in this area. Although she is helpful. She's in
office. Yeah, she's a goodsecretary. Had to be the one to
say, do understand what reciprocation means? And I was just like yes,

(40:44):
they. I was like, Imean, you guys are completely misunderstanding what
reciprocation. I can't even say theword what the lawyer because I was sitting
there the whole time. I waslike, this is terrible. Yeah,
you're like in your seat, I'mor as a lawyer, you're like my
skin's crawling. But it's like theyand I think part of it too,

(41:05):
like it comes out a little bitlater on, but maybe like some of
us being charmed by Frank and Nikkiand they've been kind of protective of Midge
and even Rose, and it's likethey made us forget that they're part of
the mob and their arrangement. Yes, yeah, it's like yeah, sure,
like they probably care about Susie andthey care about Midge, but they
care about their jobs and their bosseven more so. It comes part been

(41:31):
nice for mentalizing. They compartmentalize likelike pros. They're like, yeah,
we love you, Susie, ofcourse you're like family, but we'll break
you fucking kneecaps if you don't dowhat we say, Like that's just how
it rolls. And they would dothat to anyone in their family too,
I think, you know, likeI feel like Frank and Nikki are going
to each other probably probably, yeah, and we forget these things. And

(41:54):
I love the way that the Palladinoswrite this shit because we've fall so in
love with especial Nikki. He's likea teddy bear, you know exactly,
And moments Midge on the neckline ofher outfit at the point in this episode,
and I was like, ah,yeah, so sweet, and then
it's like, oh, by theway, I'll kill you. It's it's
kind of like the Abe phenomenon too, because it's like, oh, Abe,

(42:16):
I love you. Wow, whata dick you are? Oh my
god, you're such a dick.It's like so weird how I can feel
two ways about a character at theexact same time, like Midge, Oh,
yeah, we'll get there, We'llget there. I will say I
have to shout out the little ADHDmoment that made me really happy when they're
talking on the phone, when Susieis, you know, for laying all

(42:37):
this information to Midge, and Midgewon't stop interrupting her, and she goes,
can you stop your brain for onesecond and take in all the information
before you speak, And Midge justgoes, no, that spoke to make
that is my brain? Yeah?Same. It sounds about right. But
the way, like even that beatthat Rachel Brasnahan took before saying no,

(42:59):
I'm just like, oh, they'realso good. Yes, Kara, you
like read my mind. You yousay the things that I don't bother to
take notes on, and I loveout because that was a note in my
brain and I was like, butI whatever, I'm not gonna I can't
write everything, you know, becausegood lord, the no true for this
show, Like I go on forever, and they'll go on forever. This

(43:21):
show is so dense, Like thisis the densest show I've ever podcasted on.
And it's just I think that's whyI love Amy Sherman Palladino so much,
because even on you know, yourtenth rewatch of an episode, you
can still get something new out ofit, and it's just it makes it

(43:43):
so much. And like Susie tryingto convince mid she's like the way she
said cute, She's like, it'sgurly shit. You love gurly shit.
Oh yeah, where is it?He goes, um, oh, I
wrote it down and keep talking.I'll find it. I don't even I'm
trying to remember how she even shegoes. She goes. What I saw
was cute. They had tulips dancingaround, goly shit, you love girly

(44:06):
shit. Brilliant, But it's true, like Midge loves girly shit. Like
a way to give her a hat. Even Frank and Nicky knew she like
Nikki was in particular, it waslike, I knew you'd love the hat,
like it's got a little hat.I know. I love that line.
I love it so much, oneof my favorite moments. And we
get a reference to, um,who am I Luella Parsons And for those

(44:30):
of you who don't know, famousmovie columnist, you know kind of like
had a head a hopper level onlyabout movies and uh that kind of U
film. Um what do you callit? Gossip columnist? I guess I
don't know what we're gonna say.Kara, Oh no, I was just
gonna say it. Bring up somethingI noticed on a rewatch of episode one

(44:52):
that kind of ties in Yes,go for it. Midge asking about Hetty
because she knows. She's like,what do you know about Gordon's wife?
And the way Susie reacts, She'sjust like, why the fuck would I
know? The story? Like verydefensive, and I realized watching rewatching episode
one, when Susie is being kindof chased out after she and Mike have

(45:16):
their little communication during the show bythe security guard, she hears Hetty's voice
with her friends. Yes, AndI did not even process that until rewatching.
I was like, because I rememberwondering did hetty lamar but hetty Lamar
was more popular in the thirties andforties, so why would she be following
her? And it wasn't until eventhat exchange. I was like, oh

(45:39):
shit, that's and that was sucha little tiny nugget at the end of
the episode. They did even referenceit until three episodes later, but then
they also had that I do.And then when she noticed his picture like
that was the other time. Yes, you kind of were like, who
is who is Gordon's wife? Whois this woman? And why is Susie

(45:59):
did spooked very good job bread fromingus into the end of this episode and
that reveal. Yeah, I appreciatedthat it and it felt like it didn't
feel like it was they're just tryingto make it obvious. It was just
hitting us over the head with it. Yeah, it was really yeah.

(46:21):
Yeah. So more about this scene, this little phone call between Midge and
Susie. UM tell Susie tells Midgeto get out of work by telling them
you have lady troubles. It's agreat excuse. It could mean anything,
and I guarantee you not one guyis going to ask you to clarify.
Oh yeah, I think we canall relate to that at one point or

(46:43):
another. Oh yeah, I mean, but this is the thing. It
is so hard being a woman.Okay, it's fucking hard. I'm not
a mom. I don't know howyou did it, Erica, I don't
know how. Seriously, and Iknow you said you had a difficult pregnancy.
Yes, but you know what Idid. We've been using these excuses
in their va We are entitled sincepuberty, so it's cool. We've been

(47:06):
using it to our gym teacher,to our our professors, to our bosses.
Oh yes, it's like living inNew York. Okay, it's so
fucking expensive. It's so fucking expensiveto live here. So when i'm late,
I will blame the subway. Iwill lie and I will blame the
subway. That's what I will do. And fuck you, no one can
take that away from me, becauseit's what you It's like a perk that
you get for living in an impossiblyexpensive city. You get always have a

(47:30):
way out because subway traffic. Yougotta take what you can. Yeah,
and it's you. Okay. Actuallyit's usually not a lie either, Like
the subway in traffic is you know, in just like being a woman having
lady troubles, like it does getin the way of things. Okay,
it's not always a lie, soit's not It can't even like be a
boy who cried wolf situation, becausenine times out of ten it's probably the

(47:52):
truth anyway, you know. Butanyway, that's been evidence by those videos
that I think I've seen that ontalk where they have those period cramp simulators
and they'll put them on men,oh, crank them up, and the
men will be like doubled over inpain and at a level like four,
and a woman's at like a leveleight or ten. It's like, oh,

(48:13):
yeah, this is usually like thefirst day of my period and I
have to go to work and youknow, pick the kids up and do
all the stuff. It's like,yeah, it's a legitimate excuse. And
the men are like crying in thereand just being an It's like, yeah,
now put on heels, makeup Ufucking bra, and go to work
on top of that. Oh yeah, no, heels. Oh I could

(48:36):
go on. I can't do it, I know, not unless I have
to heels and makeup only when Iabsolutely have to. Um, Okay,
anyway, So one more line thatI have to say Midge. Midge says
she's talking about the kids, uminviting the kids to see her perform,
and she's like, oh, that'syou know, I could invite the kids

(48:57):
to see the show. And shegoes because it'll be years before I let
see one of my shows longer ifthey're screwed up and I need them from
material And it's like, oh,like wink everything to do with the kids,
you guys, because of this foreshadowing, it like makes it juicier and
okay. And I know we likereally came down hard on the foreshadowing flash

(49:20):
forward thing last time, but butthis episode we did not get any flashbowards.
We did not true What are yourthoughts? How do you feel it
was okay with no flash forwards.I feel like I feel like a loser
because I liked it so much withoutI'm like, oh, it's my my
old miss May's will get I feellike I feel like a Lamo because guys,

(49:44):
we are in the minority. There'snot one person online, not one
review that I found where anyone dislikedthe flashboards, and I was like,
oh shit, I'm gonna get hey, hey, place I did see like
I checked in on a Reddit threadwait for Marvelous Missus Maisel, and there
were some people that didn't love it. And I will say like in this

(50:04):
episode though, I could all letit. They were so helpful sometimes.
But there were definitely things that Ifeel like relate to the flash forwards that
come up, and there were referencesthat I think are going to become I
don't know, like just little eastereggs as we start to get more in
the season. But while the flashforwards not being present didn't bother me,

(50:30):
I do wish we had a littlebit less of the musical, which we
can talk about. I like themusicals. Yeah, I liked it.
I mean I know, like Ithink all of us are varying degrees of
musical theater nerd. So it mademe. I could have watched it all
day, But by the end ofit, I was just like, but

(50:52):
I wanted more of this and Iwish we got more of this, and
the Paladinos don't always edit. LikeI was going to say, the only
thing, well put, the onlything I think that was like disastrous and
I don't want to jump ahead toomuch was just the painful again, like

(51:13):
that secondhand embarrassment of Midge. Thatportion of the musical is where I'm like,
I was over it. But yeah, but I think it's very valid
before we transition. I know,I don't want to go back a little
bit, but just to talk aboutthe flash forwards, I think, yeah,
I'm I'm very sentimental and I cherishthese characters so much, and I

(51:35):
think there's just a little bit apart of that, like I can't I
don't want to let go. Butalso the flashboards are just like, oh,
they're so dismal. They're they're notfriends anymore. It's not that I
didn't like the artistic direction of theflashboards. They're film beautifully. They looked
authentic. It didn't look like sillyand cheap and bad photoshop. It's just
I kind of want this fantasy ofMidge's life to continue. It's it's an

(52:00):
escape, it's it's positive. Yes, there are some negative things that we
get to touch throughout the seasons,but that's the problem, like we're realizing
the show is about to end.So I think that was my feeling of
the negativity towards the flashwards, because, like I said, even the very
first episode, I wasn't expecting thatlike slam of esther and and again it

(52:22):
wasn't like a bad choice of theof the direction that the Sherby Palladinos were
going. It's just I'm like,oh, they're going to get old.
All those things that Mention did isgoing to come. You know, it's
going to come to Fruisia that shebest up her kids' lives a little bit
or whatever. But I, yeah, I just wanted to add that where

(52:42):
I was going, yeah and seethat. I thought about it too,
and I realized it Just the biggestreason that I dislike the Flash Forwards is
because Midge just isn't happy. AndI'm glad she's successful a famous comedian,
but like at what cost? Youknow? And is it realist? Yes?
But does get me happy? Right? And it's like I feel like,

(53:08):
if if we were getting everything sunshineand rainbows, I would be complaining
of a come on it make ita little more real. It's like,
you always want what you don't get, you know, you always want what
you don't have. Is just thething. And I will say I went
I did a rewatch as well ofthe first three episodes, and Midge does
have a moment of awareness, becauseI know we were questioning, like,

(53:29):
how aware is Midge of like thefact that Ethan especially doesn't like her very
much. And I was like,I don't know. I'm worried from midges
sanity because she doesn't seem to belike living in the real world. And
there is a moment though, thatI clocked on my rewatch where she has
a moment of awareness where she saysgoodbye to Ethan and before she gets on

(53:50):
the helicopter and she looks at himand she just goes, I wish you'd
told me that you were getting married, And she looks very sad, and
she's very much aware that Ethan doesnot approve of her or really like her
very much at all, and sheknows that they've grown apart, and she's
sad, and again, you Idon't like this. It makes my stomach
feel like I just want Midge tobe happy. And it's funny too,

(54:15):
because like, I don't you know, I don't like what's happening. But
at the same time, anytime wegot new information, I was still like
devouring that and devouring and clocking itright, So you know, I am
very willing to see how it playsout. Because I say that, Yeah,

(54:37):
but after a year in the lifeand how that ended, I don't
know. But I don't know ifI trust them entirely. I think,
you know, and I spoiler alertFreddy gave it throats fans. It's just
like, I don't think they're goinginto darist rough out. Yeah. I
know, but but because you couldsee where Midge like kind of made these

(54:57):
mistakes or where these things kind ofstemmed from. And I'm going to need
your help when we get to herlittle tantrum because it took me a little
bit to think about, like wherewhere that kind of all stem from.
Okay, So this dinner scene withAbe, Rose Mine, Zelda, and
Yanush right where they're where everyone endsup passing out. Uh, Erica,

(55:24):
you kick it off. I feellike I just go this This scene was
just adorable and hilarious, and Ijust was like looking at everything. I
even had to ask my husband aboutthis. I'm like, why is it
so cluttered in there? Like there'sall this stuff all over the table,
and he was like, well,it's because Abe doesn't have a study anymore.

(55:44):
I'm like really, So I justwas like enjoying the conversation and then
Um, you know, Midge wasmarveling over Rose's beautiful jewelry and then Rose
just goes and I'm not going todeliver, stop imagining my death. It
was just, yeah, it wasso like it was such a cute little
go back and forth about um,you know, all their different things,

(56:07):
and um, I can't deliver asmuch. But I loved yanage is coming
out with the cake what was it? The bobka that his uh I forgot
whose recipe was it? Yes,special rulers for the kids, and then
the thought that pass but thank you. Yeah it was. It was adorable.
I just I really loved it.Um. It was just like a

(56:29):
little kind of perfect, little quietinterlude before everything started kind of going down
south. But it was just youknow, and then of course it was
just extremely silly, like all ofa sudden they're talking and then eventually they're
just like completely all passed out.I loved it. I was like,
what the hell did he put inthat cake? I wanted that cake so
bad. I could smell the rumpermeating through the TV screen. I love

(56:52):
her cake, so I need itthat Yeah, I half expected that a
joke to be that they all wereall passed out and aban Rose missed their
play ye, And then I waslike, well, how long were they
passed out for? It couldn't havebeen that long if the kids are being
taken off to bed and they madeit to their play. But I still

(57:15):
enjoyed it. Yeah, I didn'treally consider that. I didn't really consider
that that they were going to theplay that night. For some reason,
I thought they were talking about somethingthey were going to do the next time.
Oh, maybe that is what Ithink it was, because I thought
so the first time I watched Itook it so literally. I was like,
what do they do? They're gonnamiss their play? And then I
was like, ah, dinner drinksagain, that makes more sense that we

(57:39):
have a fundy this jewelry trying onthing. It took me until the second
time I watched it to realize.I was just like, why is this
here? What is this about?It feels like something foreshadowing right, like
they're death laying the groundwork for something. And I'm like, well what though,

(58:00):
but what And am I the onlyone who gets like creepy vibes from
Yanush? Oh no, he's creepy, Like I thought that was part of
the joke, especially you know thefirst couple episodes or the first episode where
you see him in the background.I was like, who the hell was
this giant bald guy just walking aroundand this guy looking like mister clean who's

(58:22):
got a boner for Zelda? Whatis happening? But I don't know,
and I couldn't tell if it waslike if he was intentionally like if he
was supposed to be creepy, orif that was just well I think,
or he's testing out that vodka forsomething later on, hopefully not. I

(58:43):
don't know, and no one Iwas like, did he roofing them with
rum? That's what I'm saying,Like it can't just be rum because if
he Midge goes, whoa, there'slike so much rum. This cake is
really rum filled, and he goes, oh no, it bakes off like
it's you know, all the rumdissolves, you bake it. We do
know that Midge can hold her liquor, she just really can't deal with multiple

(59:05):
bottles of wine. No, everyonebeing here flat, everyone being face flat
on the on the table. Thatis not rum. That is something else,
And no one thinks to question this, like all of them are just
like they all just wake up,peel their faces off their dinner plates and
go, huh, that's weird,and us just like the children will party
well, unconscious children off to bed. Yeah, so that makes me sad

(59:30):
though, if this is going tohappen, just in case or Zelda,
I know, be a weird directionkind of to make him sinister. But
he seems a little creepy. There'ssomething something there, something off. So
my prediction robbed them. That whatI'm saying. I think that he is

(59:52):
going to steal that jewelry. Thatis my prediction, you know what,
testing it out to see how longit knocks them all out. I mean,
he is in the background, hehas got he's got ears, and
he's in another room. But likeyou can still hear everything that they're saying.
She's trying on these family heirlooms ofjewelry that are like so precious roses,

(01:00:15):
like don't imagine my death stop himbecause she's not parting with those until
she died. She's like, you'regonna give them to me on my next
birthday? And she's like, no, what not until I'm dead? Can
you have these jewels like they aremine? I'm just like hoping Zelda isn't
in on it, because like theyare getting engaged, and I know we'll
talk about that too, but Iwas just like, wool do they run

(01:00:37):
off together? Oh my god?I hope it's not like Bodie and Clide
style. Yeah, because I meanZelda is also not treating the best time.
No so, but she is lovedThat's true. Yes, Abe very
much loves her stew. He's likethey would all be in so much trouble

(01:00:58):
without Zelda, like Zelda is thebone of that household. And Abe's like,
what is this stew? And Zelda? Oh, it is an old
world recipe and he stopped. Idon't want to know it too scary.
Miriam passed me some more of thatold world mystery stew, would you please.
He loves it, but he doesn'twant to know what's in it,
Like when Rose was making him foodin Paris. What is this? What
does it taste like? Like,I'm not telling. I will say if

(01:01:22):
nothing comes from that, like therum cake and them being passed out,
then I like it less because thenit just seems a little awkwardly heavy handed.
Oh no, something's definitely come infrom that, you know. No,
that's there for a reason. Ijust want all that. Yeah.
Yeah, he's so curious, soyeah right, yeah, yeah, so

(01:01:47):
okay. Rose Um is excited togo see the show with a guy who
used to work at the Village Voice, Carl. He's not a friend exactly.
He was a writer at the Voice. I knew, I knew him
a little, but he left soonafter I got there. He was a
fine fellow. There was a realfriendship possibility had he stayed, but he
left, and long distance relationships rarelywork. It was it was fright shape

(01:02:08):
possibilities, but he wasn't. Ithink that's one of the reasons why I
love Abe so much, as Iidentify with his word vomiting like it just
makes me happy. Yes, ohyeah. Another line I loved is when
Zelda brings the cake in. Ihope every everyone is roomy for dessert.

(01:02:28):
Y'all know she made it. Thatwas cute the way she said roomy.
Oh man. Yes, okay,So that was a weird scene, weird
moment. Seeds have been planted.Now we go to this musical number at
the Expo Center, this kitchen musicalnumber, and Midge is starting her job

(01:02:50):
at the Expo Center, First ofall, can we talk about the set
and these extras. The costumes wasfantastic. It's so beautiful. I want
to I want to open up mystove and have someone hand me a cake,
I know, I know, oropen on the washer dry and half
folded laundry, or the pantry andhave a butler come out. Yes,

(01:03:12):
Midge. And Midge is so takenin by the performance too. She's like,
she's just shopping. She's she's justa housewife at this thing. She
goes, I'm hawking garbage and they'relike, yeah, what's wrong with that?
Well, I just saw the prettykitchen in the oven that hands you
a cake, and I just thought, you know, maybe I could be
in that show. Midge is like, just fair, and Mitch says,
doesn't she say something like that?Um where what was it? She said?

(01:03:35):
She saw? I think I yes, a Pyrex show that was changing.
Remember Midges, like Mitch has avery deep bond with her Pyrex.
When she want the gaslight, right, Pyrex is an amazing thing. When
she went to the gaslight, Um, I left my Pyrex. Here was
a Pyrex. It's a Pyrex.Yes, I know. She keeps saying

(01:03:58):
the word pyrex I don't know whatthat means. It's a dish that can
go from hot to cold without cracking. I would like it back now,
please, Yes, Um, Ithink my favorite, my favorite part of
that that scene in the kitchen,besides of course the singer and dancer was
beautiful, but I love the waythe choreography just like sput around and then
it transitioned to Midge, Frank andNikki like it was just like, you

(01:04:19):
know, you could see her army. Of course I'm trying to do it.
I don't do it justice, butit just I loved the camera movement
of that scene, just like howit just wrapped up when when it was
over and went right into the dialogue. Yes, so seamless. Yes,
yes, the choreography. Who wrotethat song? Uh make my Kitchen Dreams

(01:04:42):
Come True? It's sung by umthe actor. She sings a couple of
songs in this episode. Megan McGinnis. Apparently she's been on five episodes of
The Marvelous Missus maslum all in seasontwo and she played a character Lula.
They gave her a name. Idon't think that she ever had any lines
or anything, but um, yeah, she's been on a couple of Amy
Sherman Palladino shows in the past,and I just got a shout out.

(01:05:04):
Robin er Dang. I don't knowhow to say that. You are d
A n G. He's the musicsupervisor along with Amy Sherman and Daniel Palladino.
Just amazing music. We have anarticle I think about that for the
News. It's so cool. Theproduction value is insane, and I'm so

(01:05:24):
into this dance and the dancer.She's amazing her three tiered like apron,
her outfit, that orange. Ohgod, I just loved it. It
was like Candy Eye. Candy trulywas yes, so yes, Midge gets
she's a private private demolition and wastemanagement. A musical journey in three acts.

(01:05:47):
This is my favorite part of theepisode. So I know it's a
lot, it's a lot of musicalabout eight minutes. Yeah, but I
loved it so much. The firstshowing was amazing. Saying though it was,
it was so good. It wasso good. I will say I
had the exact same thought as Susiewhen it started, and you know,

(01:06:10):
the little boy gets in bed andon those four and she's like, what
are they going to do? That? A little boy. I was like,
thank you. That was creepy ashell. But before we get there,
before we get there, there's okay, So Susie's comes up to Midge
right or Nicky hanns Minter costume.Here's your costume. It's got a little
hat. I knew you'd like that. That was precious. I wanted to

(01:06:30):
like start the podcast off by sayingthat, like, hey guys, here's
your podcast. It's got a littlehat. I knew you'd love that.
I loved it. I love thisan Amy Sherman Palladino show without countless mentions
of hats, without amazing hat.You know that she did this whole show
just for the hats. Yeah,listen, I'm wearing a hat right now
and you guys can't even see it. It's great. It look it isn't

(01:06:51):
apply cute. It's like an apple. It's an apple beret. Oh god,
I stole off my daughter. Well, actually she stole off very fitting.
Yes, Erica. Erica always showsup to the podcast with a headdress
like some kind of a when whenyou did your Yellow Jackets two recap,
you wore your horns your I needsomething to kind of just put me into

(01:07:14):
character give me out of line aboutyou. Thank you. I love a
good head head dress myself. Iyes i am. I am a cat.
So I have very many pairs ofcattiers. Yes, I'm that.
I'm that same, same, same. Oh my god, I'll grab them
next time we take a break.Um okay, So anyway, so so
we Midge. Sorry, go ahead. I was just gonna say my favorite

(01:07:38):
line was like when she was tryingon her costume. It comes with a
cigar stub. It's still yes,oh yeah, I'm not putting it in
my mouth, and yeah, where'syour cigar stub? I'm having a dry
clean. It's a great prop Itsays so much about the character. Try
it on now without a teenna shotand then and then um, she give

(01:08:00):
Susie the script and have you seenthe script? What is this? Tears?
It's terrible. It's like tears stainedscript. Because Jerome was worried about
them killing his parents if he messedup, and he should have been a
pharmacist. The only thing I've wroteabout Jerome was poor Jerome, he should
have been a pharmacist. That's exactlywhat I had written to poor Jerome.

(01:08:25):
He was not okay, he wasnot okay. He's not okay in the
same way Mike Carr is not okaybecause of working for fucking Gordon Board,
you know. M oh yeah,and yeah Mike though I know and so
yeah so Susie. So Midge isabout to go on for her first show,
and Susie's like, tits up ifyou got you got tits in there,

(01:08:45):
because she says something like, yeah, this outfit wasn't made for me.
It was made for a two hundredpound guy who took a ship in
it before he took it off thelast time. I don't know, like,
good lord. I feel like thevulgarity and like the curse was so
amped up in this episode, butI thought it was fitting. I was
like, I think it helped,like we understand exactly how Midge is feeling

(01:09:10):
well. Amy Sherman Palladino wrote thisone, so and she has said she's
like, oh, I try tolike at the end of when I'm done
writing a script, like I'll goback and just like add to swear words
like I'll add fox and shits justbecause I want to push push it,
just because I want makes sense.That level of Yeah, that's that's where
we are, and I'm like,I mean, on my level, do

(01:09:30):
you love a good fuck? Soyou know we do that? Well you
will, Okay, So let's getinto Midge's first performance in the Garbenka.
You start the start the convo train. Oh my gosh, I don't even
know where I Oh, you weretalking about the little kids saying yes,
I was great. This is anotherone I was watching on the plane,

(01:09:54):
like I was trying not to movein my seat and like dance along and
I I had a smile on myface the entire time. And I will
say I am a sucker for anythingin a musical with prop choreography. And
as soon as they put those trashcandlids on their feet, I lost my

(01:10:15):
mind. This is brilliant. Iwould pay to see this show like it
immediately made me think of some ofmy favorite like musical moments with props and
I'm going to nerd out a littlebit, please do because I want to
ring it. Bring it on,Bring it on. I can't be the
only one always talking about as anactor. As an actor, so I

(01:10:38):
loved musical theater in high school.That was like I lost it after high
school going into law school and wedid Beauty and the Beast my senior year,
and it was one of the yearswhere we were the first high school
in the country to have the rightsto do it, and so wow,
it was so much pressure. Andthere's the scene in the tavern for or

(01:11:00):
guest on and they do I don'tknow if you guys, I'm sure you've
seen it, like the mug Cupdance Jersey, which was the hardest fucking
thing to nail. The giant beersteins or whatever they call it, yeah,
and that's yes, yeah, beersteins, And it was like watching
it on Broadway was one of thebest things I've ever seen in my entire

(01:11:25):
life. That and I think of, you know, Fiddler on the Roof.
I was just going to bottles everythingabout that. I mean, I
love Fiddler anyway, but anything fossywith like you know, a chair or
a hat. And I also thinkof Grease Lightning in the early nineties where
they're doing like the tires, likeclose out into the audience. Like I

(01:11:50):
was having the time of my lifeon the plane at six fifteen this morning
watching this show. But that justthe amount of work and skill that went
into those eight minutes was fantastic.And not to mention like the garbage heap
girls. Okay, okay, we'llget there, we'll get there. But

(01:12:12):
I just gotta say I did noticelike on that the garbage can lids on
their feet. I'm like, likeI zoned out on that my on my
second watch, and one of thoseguys is going so hard he crushes there's
there's a dent because he like slamshis foot into the ground like, man,
you are getting it boy like dancelike just oh like he is doing

(01:12:36):
the river dance. Oh man,it was I can't stop smiling now.
I knows face it was if Ihad to watch this not from the comfort
of my own apartment alone where Icould just go yes, like like I
was giddy this whole episode, likesmiling like a lunatic. I probably look

(01:13:04):
like a crazy person on the pod, but that's okay because you're watching,
you know, like these boys,these garbage boys, dancing with like these
trash candlets. It reminded me.Do you guys remember the show Stomp from
like the nineties, Yes, AndI was like this just like this made
me think it was like a combinationof stomp Um I saw so many times

(01:13:25):
in New York and like newsies andlike you're in town. Like I was
like yes, yes, I waslike, yeah, wonderful, but yeah,
I thought it was amazing. Andthose girls what we get to the
girls at a trash sheet was likehow seductive they were. You really could
see how good they were when theydid the close ups when Mitch was being
a jackass. Yes, okay,so let's get through. Let's get through
this stuff. Um okay the soyes, I really died when Susie,

(01:13:49):
what are they going to do?That little boy? That's whine? That's
whine. Creepy I thought of it, but best side to delivery. I
think we all do it. Thatdoes It's like, what the hell?
Where is the bedroom? He justthey pop your song? Your your personal

(01:14:11):
trash man can? This little kidis saying his little prayers and then like
four creepy men like pure, yeah, they just link up on top of
them. Who cleans out? Orwhat is it? Um? Who cleans
out all the evidence? You ain'tBen Spick and Span your personal trash man
can? Like well, I waslike that's some interesting juxtaposition there. I

(01:14:35):
know, right, there's a coupleof lines. I don't know if you
guys have favorite lines. I reallylike the one Ferrell pets not in your
least take it away, but alwaystake it away. You know you has
to pay for my my trash removal. Because I don't live in Philly anymore.
I live right outside of it.I'm like, yeah, it's kind
of nice because they take everything right. But yeah, but you think because

(01:14:59):
it's and backed by Frank and Nikki, like maybe that's kind of the ties
into the mob because they take allyours oh yeah, mentions of evidence and
everything, like they're disposing of bodiesat pointing. Oh yeah, medical waste,
Oh my god. And now itall makes sense why Frank and Nikki
are behind that. Of course theywould. Yeah, there was the business

(01:15:25):
of disposing of brilliant Yeah, yep. Because they know where all the bodies,
they know where all the bodies areburied. I think the line I
mean out of the whole, Imean out of the whole musical. There
were a couple of moments that stoodout, but at this very initial part
in the beginning the cut to Alexboards Borstein and Susie's facial expressions where it

(01:15:50):
first thank you, like kind ofunsure, and then she's like eating the
hot dog and like nodding her headlike, oh she cannot. She's like
shocked and delight lighted. And she'slike looking over her shoulder like, hey,
guys, look people like you guyssay that this is pretty pretty good.
Yeah, she's so delighted by it. That was so good and obviously

(01:16:15):
tests just god, yes, Okay, one other thing I gotta I gotta
mention before we get to test.One line that I really loved was you'd
never guess, you'd never know thatlast night there was a mound of trash
as high as an elephant's eye,high enough that the bond Trap Family singers
could climb over it to escape theNazis. And that's pretty high. But
now look at it. Awful.God, the streets are gleaming. You

(01:16:38):
could see a reflection. M lookslike I need a shave. And then
Rachel Brasenhand's bad acting was fantastic,fantastic, and I was just gonna say,
I'm so pissed off like all thosebrilliant like you know, ensemble,
I'm like, they really couldn't getsomebody to fill that role. They really

(01:16:59):
couldn't. Like all the towns,all the towns people that they had to
get Midge to do her half asked, I'm like like, how great?
Like the woman who was a waitress, like, I'm like, come on
now, she was so funny.Okay, you guys, this was almost
my most marvelous moment when the businessmanwith a briefcase off to conquer the world

(01:17:19):
and this guy like just the wayhe ust ruts by this like across the
stage and then or a waitress rushingto get you those sunnyside up eggs to
get you through your day, andshe just goes like she air air pumps
and he goes like, uh,it was so good. I shrieked out
loud. I squealed that that momentmade me so fucking delighted, and I

(01:17:43):
didn't think any I was like,that's my most marvelous moment there. It
is that fucking businessman and the waitressbeing what the like so fucking cheery,
And then that was good. Andthen Tess happened and I was like,
yeah, I knew it. Iknew it, and then and then that
was my most marvelous But it wasa close second. So let's talk tests.
Go. Yes, I just Idon't know I kind of got like

(01:18:06):
almost Missus Hannigan energy from it.Yeah, okay, I mean specifically Carol
Brunette Missus Hannaghan, which yet me, Oh, you are so right on
the money. Okay. I hada couple of references come out to me.
When her set comes out, andit like the sound changes. You

(01:18:27):
hear this like blood curdling scream.You hear a lot of blood curdling screams
in the background, just like outof just for no reason, people just
like and the musical track was reminiscentof like the Wicked Witch of the West
entering Munchkin Lands when you know,and all the munchkins just scatter and freak
out. And also, um,I was getting Burnully vibes. Remember I

(01:18:51):
don't anyone watch burn Gully. Iknow, it's like a like a fever
dream of my childhood when the oilvillain of the Rainforest just like Gosh who
was voiced by Tim Curry. Yes, yeah, yeah, the one and
almost scarred from that, scarred,like I can close my eyes and see
that perfectly from like a nightmare whenI'm oh, yeah that that movie feels

(01:19:14):
like a fever dream. I rememberwhen I watched it like as an adult.
I was like, I can't.Oh, toxic love is the name
of the song. Oh yeah,I know. I was gonna say,
slam beneath me, slamp above youlove toxic love, and love was like
whispering and like, you know thatkind of whisper of different like singular words.

(01:19:38):
When they said Hoboken, Okay,wait, I got it, So
test is singing We've seen better days, and the ensemble trash this life ain't
fair, smock beyond repair, death, you begging from mercy when you go
to Jersey to breathe fresh air.Hoboken. That was great. I think

(01:20:02):
I laughed out loud, out loudthat one. It was just like,
oh shit, I'm not gonna beable to contain myself. And there used
to be trees and clear blue seas, but now all the babies are born
here with rabies and full goates.Oh so tough to raise. We've seen
better days. No, I'm nota singer, but I will. I'm

(01:20:26):
gonna sing this. That was prettydamn good. That was that was a
fantastic Kay. It was giving melife this You guys, my cheeks hurt
so bad right now, like likethey did when I was watching the episode
and it was so good. She'sjust like sex sexual, this commitments,
laying on this undulating and like writhingin the trash was great. Yes,

(01:20:48):
And the huge mound of garbage thatthey're on, I mean massive set.
Oh, like on the transition beforethe set closes, did you guys see
tests scrambles off the garbage mound likeyou can see, Oh god, I
have to look at that again.Oh yeah, it's so good. Definitely
worth a rewatch. I will tellyou when I absolutely did lose it on

(01:21:12):
the plane is when you know,the old timer comes out with his dead
son okay in his arms and arod in his head, and I was
just like, what a fuck?The fuck is happening right now? Like
that was she just kiss Yes,Midge goes happy. People die every day

(01:21:34):
from trash. Tens of thousands ofpounds of garbage accumulate every hour. The
average person throws away two point sixeight pounds of garbage per day, and
that's a really thin person. Likeher Monotone reads and then she I'm gonna
I'm gonna read it, guys,I'm gonna do it. I was like,

(01:21:54):
yeah, I was like, shouldI transcribe this, and we please,
please, just fucking do it,Jade. And this reminds me of
um. So I do a lotof voice over, like commercials and stuff
where I have to in a veryfast you can, you can speed it
up with editing, but they alwayswant you to just get through it.
You know, when you're doing likeallergy medication or whatever. You know this
could cause dysentery, hepatitis, diariyada da da da dah. You know

(01:22:17):
you have to say it right fast, So she does in her monotone voice.
She's like reading all of them.What happens when you improperly dispose of
garbage, So she goes. Mismanagedvoice kills up to one million people a
year globally and can potentially carry diphtheria, dysentery, It's f hepatitis A and

(01:22:38):
B and C and D and E, menegitis, cancer, tetanus, tuberculosis,
pneumonia, influenza, syphilis, andassorted blood borne pathogens, parasitic infections,
so anotic illnesses, and plus therewon't be any place to park the
worst one of them, all right, And then the curmudgeon man comes up.
I can't hear anymore. I'm convincedprivate demolition and in waste management is

(01:23:00):
important. It's important, like shakingthe dead child. I can't. It
was just like it was so good, and the fact that they kept in
like it was hepatitis A and Band N funnier. I just I was.
I was sitting there thinking that like, my dad hates musicals, it

(01:23:25):
is not his thing, like mymom and my grandma and I love them.
And so the whole time where Iwas sitting there dying and loving this,
I was like, man, mydad would hate this right now,
so I do. I'm curious ifthere is if there's anybody who loves the
show and is not a fan ofmusicals. How they reacted. I feel
like it almost goes hand in hand, like, right, you a part

(01:23:48):
of you has to love musicals ifyou love Marvelous Missus baiseel Oh. Yeah.
I mean, I don't know anyonewho loves this show who doesn't love
theater, or who hasn't involved inthe You know, it's it's like a
musical without the song. Mostly that'sexactly stopped doing this. Baby, ned
you read my non existent notes,Like I literally said in my head,

(01:24:10):
I don't know if you guys feelthat way. But maybe I feel a
little bit more forgiving with the storytellingbecause I see it as it's supposed to
be a little outrageous, like obviouslythat makes sense. Yeah, I don't
know, it's just happy it is. Yeah, Yeah, this show as
a whole, even you know inthose moments when remember in past seasons,

(01:24:32):
I think it was season three,when Midge is going to Christopher Street to
find a gay bar for Susie andshe just um, they play the interesting
people living on street and they likejust her gliding down the street, she
does her little twirls, you know, just because just because Amy Sherman Paladino

(01:24:54):
wants this whole entire show, likeyou were just saying, And that's what
I'm trying to say, is notjust this episode, but like this show
as a whole is a musical withoutthe musical. It's like a script musical.
It kind of remember I don't knowif that's entirely a parallel, but
Noises Off Yes is one of myfavorite plays, and I just I feel

(01:25:15):
like that kind of cheeky like winkwink yep theatrical humor that those are the
kind of plays that I love togo out that I love to audition for
because I always say this, like, I'm not a singer. Um,
I have a strong dance background.Um, but I words are music to
me. I'm very rhythmic in myyou know, voice over. It's like
my craft is just like the artof the spoken word, like poetry.

(01:25:41):
It's it's music, you know.I hear the music in every day just
speaking. So that's why I oneof the main reasons why I really love
this show is because it just appreciatesspoken word in such a uni way.
You don't see this kind of It'sjust this show is so unique, never,
never before, and never again willthere be anything like the marvelous Missus

(01:26:03):
Masiel, Which is why we're heretalking about it, soaking up every last
bit of the final season because I'mgonna miss it so bad when it's gone
so bad. Please I hope thatin a few years we are talking about
the Missus Maisiel movie. I reallyhope that they're they're doing a four part
Netflix. Yeah, like just likethey did with Gilmore Girls. I'm like,

(01:26:27):
and um, the actor Sydney SidneyPollock, No, not Sidney Pollock,
who plays Moishe is it Sydney.It's not no. Sidney Pollock is
another actor. His last name isPollock whatever. Um. He has said
in interviews. He's like, you'regoing to be talking about the Missus Maisiel
movie one day there I said,Kevin, thank you, not Sydney.
Obviously Sidney Pollock is an amazing actoras well. Um, But anyway,

(01:26:48):
we're not the only ones who lovedthis. The audience loved it. Susie
loves it. She just goes allright, Tess. She's like so excited
for her sister. That was socute and so yeah, we were talking
about like maybe Midge should consider she'slucky. She's like so ashamed to be
a part of this show. Butgirl, you're getting paid two thousand,

(01:27:09):
well two hundred, but today twothousand dollars. You're in a show that
is like a very high caliber.I mean, sure it's about garbage,
and sure it's about like disposing ofhuman bodies probably, you know, but
you gotta be maybe you should consideryourself lucky that this show is pretty great.

(01:27:30):
Man, Like you proud to bethe host of this show? You
know. Push she had the easiestpart I know, and she could have
and she could have had lived andriffed a little bit if it was in
good humor, not when she wasupset, and it was just like better
attitude. Yeah, Like at thevery end, she was excited. She

(01:27:51):
put her arms up at the atthe very end note and it seemed like
she was like, the audience goescrazy, y'all, the audience, this
is going wild over here. Theylove it. Yeah, so we'll get
to I just I want to talkabout how Midge. Midge pissed me off
so badly right now, but we'regonna save it, save it for when

(01:28:11):
I have to stop myself. Yeah, I was not yet, not yet.
Okay, I'm sorry you guys thatI feel like I was just talking
like a mile a minute, butlike my excitement overfloweth and I just was
high off of this whole moment.This is gonna be Yeah, this is
gonna be a very long podcast becauseof all that talking. But I just

(01:28:31):
didn't I I'm sorry, not sorry. It's worth it. This was a
great episode. So I'm gonna watchthat trash can the trash Can lid dance
like multiple times. Probably I'll gethome tonight. Yep. Yeah, um,
okay, so let's get to thisdinner with Abe Rose, Gabe,

(01:28:53):
Tuppence, Lucy and Toby where theyI can see Kara's cringing. Did you
guys it's at Tuppence? Is CarrieButler? Yes? I was like,
oh my god, I've seen herin like multiple shows. Yes, yes,
but she didn't. She was Shewas an incredible She had such a

(01:29:14):
tiny part, but it was butshe made so much of it. Every
time she spoke, every time thecamera was on her, her face was
at a she took it past aten. She was at a ten million,
like oh and and the um.How Amy Sherman writes these dinner table
scenes, the conversational banter at itsfinest, the overlapping chatter. And to

(01:29:38):
know that it is scripted so tightly, I don't know if listeners are unaware
how Amy Sherman Palladino writes, youare. It is a demand on the
actor to get every word exactly right. You can't say you know it.
It has to be that. Youcan't say that's a really good point.

(01:29:59):
Every word they will stop you andcorrect you. And they also have said
is not encouraged. No in anyAmy Sherman Palladino joint you know, and
sometimes it pays off a whole lot, and sometimes it comes across as a
little stilted. In The Gilmore Girls, a lot of the time I found
it a little stilted, a lotof stilted, and it wasn't the great.

(01:30:21):
It didn't always work for me.It pretty much always nails it on
Marvelous Missus Maizel I am, whereasin The Gilmore Girls, I was often
distracted by how constrained the actors clearlywere by the script. I very rarely
notice it in The Marvelous Missus Maizel. I completely forget that. I'm watching
a show which is incredible. It'slike when I watch a Cohen Brothers movie.

(01:30:45):
They are the same way. They'revery very you have to be word
perfect, and they're not like dictatoryabout it. You know, no actor
has said, oh, it's sodifficult to work with Amy Sherman Palladino or
the Cohen Brothers. But they justwant what they want. They write their
scripts the way that they you know, the way that they want them.
And as an actor myself, Iad lib. I'm an ad libber.

(01:31:09):
I'm a chronic ad libber. Itis hard for me to be word perfect,
because I, like I said,words are like my music, and
when I hear it in my headas it could be better. Though if
I say it this way, Ihave to if I'm working with a director
or a writer who really wants meto stick to the script, I have
to like it. It's hard forme, you know. It's more of

(01:31:30):
an effort for me not to rewriteit myself. In the moment or something,
I'll get inspired and I'll just wantto go with it, you know,
But no, you can't do thathere. Yeah. Both are very
two different art forms, right,yeah. No, It's a very big
strength for an actor to be ableto add lib, but it's also huge
strength to be able to be wordperfect on the script. And this,

(01:31:54):
yeah, this banter kitchen table ordinner table banter. It's so tightly scripted,
but it is so natural and flowing, excellent acting, master class of
listening and responding, the way thatthese conversations are overlapping. What did you
guys think? Sorry, I'll stoptalking. I have so much to say.
I thought this it was just enthrawlingand all of them, every single

(01:32:17):
actor at that table, did sucha fantastic job, and I thought it
was I mean, it was veryrealistic to me, Like you after going
to see a show or going tosee a movie and you're all sitting around
like getting drinks afterwards or eating likeeverybody has different conversations and there's a tangent
that makes you think of something else, And it just seemed to flow really

(01:32:40):
naturally to me, and I justI still like Abe the entire time.
I was like, you are sucha pretentious dick, Like I've been in
conversations where I've probably been that personand in conversations where I've wanted to hit
that person. So saying I wasjust like I get it, like because

(01:33:03):
I was, you know, Iwas an English major and a big part
of that is like finding the themesand the deeper meaning and the symbolism and
all of this stuff. And Ijust thought that the way that they brought
that topic up, I could seeAmy and Daniel Palladino arguing about this also,
I was like, that's probably somethingthat's happened to them, but that

(01:33:27):
rose was just so clear, Likeno, it's about a boy and he
lost his dog, and Abe takesthis into this whole thing about his struggle
with his relationship with Jesus and hislatent homosexuality and all of this deeper meaning.
And I was just like, Ithink they're both right, Like that
happens quite frequently in art. AndI like how Gabe said, you know,

(01:33:51):
making a point, like trying tosmooth things over. He's like,
you know, art, art ishow you essentially interpret it, Like what
does it mean to you? Roseright, and good job, Gabe,
and Babe is just like, no, no, it's not. This is
not up to interpretation. You can'tjust decide that a piece of art is
something and then that's what it isto you. That's not how art works.

(01:34:13):
I'm like, abe a, babeea, babe. I mean you
take what the three of us andput us in front of, I don't
know, a painting of something arbitrary, the three of us will come up
with completely different meanings for that painting. And same thing with songs. And
that's the thing, like artists putthings intentionally into their work and then things

(01:34:39):
seep through that are not so intentional. And it just I could probably go
on and write a freaking essay aboutthat conversation, but it was just it
was so well done. And Abe, I'll say Tony Shaloub did a great
job and making me want to punchhim in the face. Yeah, oh
he always does. Sarah, younailed it. You nailed it. The

(01:35:02):
last time we podcasted. You said, it's like Abe has um amnesia or
amnesia brain, like Paris is completelygone from his brain, Like what happened
to Paris? Abe? All ofthat growth, all of that learning,
where did that go? Like hewas talking about art with Rose because we
know Rose is um an art studentof the arts. You know, she's

(01:35:23):
very into Rodan's hands. And andAbe was so into male models. Nice.
Yes, that was so good.Huh God, I love Rose so
much. Yeah, and and Roseis just so incredibly or I just love
Rose. She's so incredibly earnest abouther opinion. She's just honest when I'm

(01:35:46):
oh, I don't know the answer. I'm just enjoying the conversation. I
just think that it was a touchingstory about a boy and his dog.
And abes convinced it's about religion andlatent homosexuality. And she's like, well,
when did when did that? Whendid they mentioned Jesus? They didn't
have to mention it. Jesus wasall over the place. His wife's name
was Mary. He wore sandals thewine, and then that leads into the

(01:36:08):
wine banter with Toby and Lucy,and she's like, I never order wine
in a bar. Well, whenwere you ever in a bar? Never?
That's why I never order wine ina bar. Last November. I
was in a bar last November.It's like so natural, you know,
Oh I loved it? True,I did, like was it? When
Abe says something, you know,it's fine if you didn't get it.
It's not guys and dolls. Oh, I have the lines you do Tuppens

(01:36:38):
good. Tuppens cracks me up.She had a really hard time figuring out
what was happening in this play.Um, but okay, so that that
line what h Gabe says, artis there for your interpretation Rose, and
Abe's just insisting on putting Rose down. You don't just decide that the story
is whatever you wanted to be.I watched a boy and his dog who
died, but it wasn't about that. How do you know I'm a theater

(01:36:59):
critic. I'm paid to No,it's fine if you don't get it.
It's not guys and dolls. Awkwardsilence and then Tuppins, Well, I
just loved her dress. That laughwas her face to her eyes are like
bugging out of her head, Like, well, I just loved her dress.
Give situation, but it reminded meof immagine, Like I had like

(01:37:25):
a little flash of immage. Iwas like, God, that was funny.
Or Karne Vanne Cox as Karin howkarnn is when she was in the
in the tea room with Rose andshe's like, there's just so much happiness.
Rose, You're going to be avery busy woman. Oh my gosh,
I love time. Abe. Iwas just like, shut up,

(01:37:45):
Abe, you're making it worse.Oh and then yeah, Rosa's face acting
like that, Oh oh doghouse permanentdoghouse for Abe. Yeah, they have
a very uncomfortable spat. Abe isincapable of admitting that he could ever possibly
be entertaining the idea that he couldever even possibly be wrong. It's not

(01:38:08):
even a possibility. I'm not callingyou an idiot. I simply said you
don't understand the play at all.It's fine because I'm an idiot, and
Gabe's like retreat, retreat, retreat, and just because you can't grasp some
complex the matic piece doesn't mean you'rean idiot. I don't understand anything you
do. I'm like yeah, andthen rose with all the balls in the

(01:38:33):
world. She gets up and asksCarl, who wrote the play, to
explain what it was about. Ihad a dog named Tom who died very
suddenly one summer and I never reallygot over it. And that's it.
It was very scarring, very uncomfortablecut too, and very very uncomfortable silence
on the way home in the cab, the elevator, and I love like

(01:38:57):
the sound, the folly of thesound designed you'd have just like the worrying
of the elevator that you know,the cab sounds just like really hammers at
home? How abe you in thedoghouse, you know? And later like
brushing their teeth and getting ready forbed and yeah that was good. Yep,
I'm an abe, damn it.Abe. So they come into their

(01:39:21):
apartment and the stark contrast of Zelda'sexuberance at her propose. She's got proposed
and I said, yes, canI make you a sandwich? You propose?
And I said yes, she saidyes, having an omelet. Yeah,
you know, I want to seeif we can't get a translation of

(01:39:43):
what they were saying as they're enteringin, because now I'm thinking what were
they saying? I wonder if wecould ever find out in the future anyway,
But don't worry. She'll clean upthose rose petals after dessert. When
Abe threw them on the bed,I was like, rose petals stain.

(01:40:04):
I hope they're all dry? Ohdo they? Yeah? They do.
If you put wet rose petals ona bed A future reference Karnos from Experience
maybe word yeah, be careful withthat. So yeah, your PSA listeners

(01:40:29):
for the day, rose petals nexttime you're getting jiggy, and Abe's like,
you got yourself a wonderful woman.Thank you, mister Weisseman. I
fixed the light in the living closet. Yeah, Yanushan Zelda are just such
good. They're truly aban Rose wouldbe lost without them. I think you

(01:40:53):
can say okay and then yeah,so aban Rose with the rose petal moment.
It's so it's like Abe has noidea how to be emotionally sensitive or
I guess, or when he's notin Paris. Abe take him out of
Paris, and he's just what iswhat is romance? What is emotion to?

(01:41:14):
What are those things I do notknow, like does not compute.
Um. He reminds me of likea little boy who doesn't know how to
apologize, but he knows he's beennaughty. He like is so sullen and
so like pouty, but he's he'sreally farry. Yeah. Yeah. When
he just lays his head on Rose'slap, that was I was like,

(01:41:36):
yeah, you know you fu yeahor sure? And I think that it's
it's really it goes to show howfar like Abe and Rose have come as
a couple. Because although Abe doeshave like a gregious amnesia syndrome, like
what happened to your growth that youhad in Paris? Where did that go?

(01:41:58):
Uh, it's believable that he gotback into his ways, settled back
into his New York lifestyle, youknow, and just became like old Abe
again, but not fully. Youknow, the old Abe probably would not
have been able to do this Rosepedal moment, and the old Rose probably
wouldn't have had the balls to dowhat she did at that dinner. She's
she's getting pretty liberated. She's findingher voice and Abe is finding his,

(01:42:25):
you know, sensitivity. So Ijust love them together, Like, I
just think that things really are atthe end of the day, a good
couple. Yeah yeah, okay,yeah, who wants to start off this
writer's room they're scrambling for a guestcomic. You know. The thing about
Gordon and I was saying, like, my, my like recollection of this
episode is like, he's just sucha pompous asshole. He's so Ego said

(01:42:47):
trick, everything you know, revolvesaround him. But um, I think
my my favorite part of it,like was that like you could hear um
the writers hit the writer team orlike trying to fix the script for the
expo and they're like, well,we got to get back to our real
jo. It was like, okay, bit, well, at least you're
using your resources. But when um, and I'm not going to quote this

(01:43:11):
right, was when Bordon was justbeing such a jerk to Marge. I
wanted to punch him in the face, but then at least not to say
it was okay, he recognized thathe was an asshole. But and perfect
goes an asshole form go buy yourselfflowers, but please Jane, please quote
it right. But okay, hegoes he's barking this h uh March,

(01:43:32):
fuck you ye March Is I justan asshole to you? Yes, you
are. I'm sorry, buy yourselfsome flowers. Doesn't. And then on
my second watch, I'm like,wait, he doesn't even give her money.
He just tells her to go doit, like and he doesn't even
say I'm so terry, no,no, And and so at first time
I was like, say, I'msorry, it was just yeah, very
sincere. Yeah sorry, I mean, okay, quick. I feel like

(01:43:54):
this is as sorry as he gets. Yeah, this is this is sorry
for Gordon Board here. You know, I just kicked you in the face
here. Yeah, and no,I will not give you money for those
flowers, but you go do it. It's like, but it's like,
no, dude. Understandingly, he'supset that they don't have a comic and
they're scrambling, and then he justtakes it out on everyone that gets in

(01:44:17):
his way who is actually trying tohelp him, right, and yet he
forgets that he has all these talentedcomics in his writer's room. But I
mean, I'm hoping this is whatI'm saying, it about his ego,
that he doesn't let these people shineon stage with him. I think it
is. I think I don't knowone, I do have to say that

(01:44:41):
read Scott is excellent at playing anasshole. But I also had that thought
that, okay, so maybe hedoesn't want competition for his ego. But
at the same time, I wassitting there like, well, it would
obviously prevent more unnecessary competition between allthe writers, especially since they're are keeping
tallies of how many jokes true thatthey get, and you know there are

(01:45:04):
multiple stand up comics. You don'twant them, you know, for the
good of the show and the ratingsof the show. You don't want them
competing with each other trying to thenbackstab and see who's going to get on
the show. You also don't wantanybody to have an incentive to run guests
off because I don't know, Ijust felt like, haa, it's so

(01:45:26):
small. I could see it ashim being an asshole. But at the
same time, I was like,if I was running that show, I
feel like that would be a goodrule to have, Like does it say,
because then Midge doesn't get to,you know, be on the show.
But I was like, you knowwhat, if I was in that
position, I would have that ruletoo, because I think we're giving a

(01:45:47):
lot, we're getting a lot oflike I don't know, kind of contrasting
qualities with Gordon, where yes,he's being an asshole to everyone, but
then he kind of has that moment. It's like Marjindi is an a sole
to you, I'm sorry by yourselfFlowers And clearly she probably runs his life
and runs his check book and hisaccount. So I was like, are

(01:46:08):
we supposed to hate him? Oh, yeah, you're right, he's probably
and he's probably meaning with my moneydo that. Yeah, yeah, right,
that's what she's That's what I figuredbecause she's his right hand she's yes,
oh yeah, yeah, she's likehis work wife, slash mom or
whatever, and she's also momming.She's the office mom with her with her

(01:46:32):
little hangover remedy. Yeah. ButI think you can read Gordon both ways,
like he is this completely sorry anasshole, or he's got a tough
job to do. He's the onethat has to be on that stage and
fill time, although I would loveto fill time with Cooper the sloth.

(01:46:53):
Okay, we'll get we'll get there. Well yeah, but like I do
think it's intentional that we're getting allthese different sides of Gordon, Like he's
married, and he's you know,hitting on Midge, who's his writer.
But at the same time, Ireally don't think he's doing these things solely

(01:47:15):
because he thinks she's pretty or hethinks he has a chance to sleep with
her. He obviously thought that shewas talented, and then like, does
he know that his wife is secretlygay and is he protecting her like it,
you know, like there or ishe just a womanizer? So I
feel like there's a lot being thrown, a lot of facets. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I think Ithink that you guys are both totally onto

(01:47:38):
something. Yeah, yeah, goahead, No say if I read Scott
attractive, so that might also beplaying into he can be charming to see.
Yeah, but he needs to bemore charming than like, more sincere
and good than asshole, Like there'sgot to be the scales have to tip.
Yeah, well we'll see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think

(01:48:01):
you guys are both totally very muchonto something. I didn't even think of
how he would be, and I'msure it is that he doesn't want to
have competition that anyone. It seemsthat Gordon Ford works anyone who works for
him, he can't let them overshinehim. He's got to be on top
of everyone. He's got to bethe best. He's got to be number

(01:48:23):
one, and that's the only wayhe can function. But at the same
time, all of the things thatyou just said, Kara makes so much
sense to me. And I wasgoing to say that the fact that he
won't make an exception for Midge onlyfurther reinforces how much of a just disgusting
asshole he is, because if hereally cared about Midge and really wanted to
date her and have a relationship withher, he would make an exception to

(01:48:45):
his rule. But because he doesn't, clearly he just wants to fuck her.
And a spider. Kill that spider. I think i'd killed it a
little shot. It yelled it.It was so tiny. Hopefully it didn't
feel it, Okay, so uhso, yeah, so I think that

(01:49:08):
I was thinking that, oh,yeah, he clearly just wants to fuck
Midge and that's or else he wouldmake an exception for her. But actually
all of the other apparently everyone whoworks for Gordon Ford is a performer of
some kind, so he can't justhave one person. But but he could
also say, Okay, you're fired, get on the show. Yeah,
yeah, but yeah, and Midgewould be like, and Midge would be

(01:49:30):
like, thank you, because that'sthe only reason she's there. She's there
but to get fired. She's thereso that you could, like Susie said,
get yourself in front of this guy, make him laugh every single day
that you're there, and one dayhe will finally realize what an idiot he
is for not having you on theshow, and he'll you'll But she could
have quit. She could have said, okay, I quit now put me
on. I mean, like,but then, but then I thought him

(01:49:55):
treating her that way, like nothaving her, like not giving her that
mo it was a sign of himrespecting her more and treating her equally.
Yeah, and like okay, likehe's not going to give this to her
just in hopes that he'll get heron that couch in his office later.
He's treating her just like all ofthe other writers and seeing her as part

(01:50:16):
of you know that team. Idon't think that's what I'm saying that I
felt that same way character, butyou can take it. Yeah, I
don't know. I wonder what ifshe would have quit, I mean,
if she quit then, but hequit much conflict, but he did question
if she liked her job like hedid. Question her like, it's a
good job. It's a you know, you get paid well here, and

(01:50:40):
that's true. So I mean shecould have quit. Yeah, but she
has some stability, doesn't have somethingto fall back on, like her parents
at least have you know, theyhave their apartment, they have money,
and she does get gigs. Idon't know. Oh that's interesting. Yeah,

(01:51:01):
I wonder if she's still at theWolford. We didn't see any of
that in this episode. She wasI was thinking to myself, how are
you going to do, bolls?How are you going to work all day
at that office and then go tothe Wolford at night. I'm like,
mid you have a lot of likeendless energy and your miss is perfect,
but like you also have kids,and not that you really care about your
children at all. Um, She'slike, do I have kids though?

(01:51:25):
Do? I? Uh, I'mleaning, I'm leaning there's a little bit
of balance. I'm sure. Yeah. Oh lord, but before we get
too far away from it, Ijust noticed in my notes, Um,
I do I have a note hereabout how I love that Midge is kind
of making more friends in the writer'sroom and like she's showing them the scripts
like you you mentioned um and heMella is like, I was gonna pitch

(01:51:46):
the kid gets a pole of whatyou say, a fishing pole, not
a fishing pole or like a rodstuck at something. Yeah, a pole
through his head, but that's alreadytaken. He's like, what about a
pogo stick? Yeah? That wasfunny. Oh and he says, oh,
I remember what he says to Marge. He's like, um, did
I need to know about the cottonballs? Marge? Was that partin into
the situation? Marge? Yeah,sorry, Marge, Asian asked all of

(01:52:09):
you god horrible. I also likedthe hole and I can't deliver it the
way they do it. But thewhole part about like how you know he
grabbed his coade, he grabbed hishat and took his Gordon Ford monk and
then that it just became like theycan't take it to Lester after they appear
or whatever. But it was itwas really funny. O yep, Okay,

(01:52:30):
I want to Gordon Fortune month right, I bet those I know I
know merch, give me the merch. Okay. So Joel and the kids
show up to to see the showand we get a little Esther. We're
getting kind of a lot of Esther. This one. This had more Esther,
I think than ever before. Esthersuddenly decided she was sick of hearing
the voices of her family and andJoel had to bribe her with ice cream

(01:52:55):
and a trip to Fao Schwartz toget her to cooperate, and she at
one point just puts her hands overher ears and screams too much talking,
and then just like, boy,are you and the wrong family? Kid?
But did you hear that she calledher a genius? Yeah? Oh
yeah, yeah, you're right.She knows how to play her father.

(01:53:15):
But she also has got to growup to be a genius, isn't she?
Yeah? That is m's that's yeahclever. I don't know if it
was the makeup or what, orthe setting on my like iPad screen,
but the kids when they when hebrought them up, they looked like little
Victorian ghosts me, so much palerthan normal. And I was just like,

(01:53:39):
because they don't ever leave the house, they never leave the apartment yet
completely on purpose to show that they'reEthan. Just watch TV and you know
who knows what Esther does? Youknow? I had a realization that Esther
is you know, do you noticewe're getting the vibes at Like Esther's kind
of almost a bully to her olderbrother. She's always like sticking her.

(01:53:59):
She has she's in this space whereshe's like sticking her fingers in his face
and she's like poking him and she'sjust like a little you know, troublemaker,
like shit stir. You can justsee it in Esther. And she
takes after Midge a lot, youknow, um. And I think it's
because and Ethan is more of likea mama's boy, like we were talking
about, And I had this realizationlike in her. During Esther's formative years,

(01:54:25):
Midge was being super selfish as acomedian, not mothering Esther. They
didn't have any like bonding time.And when Midge does try to bond with
her and like sleep with her andyou know, snuggle her next to her,
Esther's like, no, don't wantit, Like that ship is sailed
woman. Like I maybe five yearsold, but I'm I'm old enough to
know I'm over you. Like,don't even try too little too late,

(01:54:47):
you know. Yeah, makes mekind of makes me very sad. Yeah,
Ester has attitude even as a littlegirl. Yeah, she does a
lot. So then, for thefirst time ever, gives up on stage.
She just gives up. She popsout of the trash can. She's
muttering under her breath, she's eatingan apple. She's watching the show with

(01:55:11):
like such a look of disdain,and she's like muttering under her breath,
like this kid's going to spend inthe next ten years stuffed in a locker,
Like what does that mean? Okay, that was that was funny,
But this, this whole thing infuriatedme, me too, talk about it.
Let's talk about it, like IOne, she knows Susie's life is

(01:55:32):
literally being threatened. Thank you you'rereading yes, Like she knows that.
And one, it's just so totallyand utterly unprofessional. Yeah, she's throwing
a temper tantrum. And I justit's like Gordon told her that she's blacklisted
again, and I was like,is it really that big of a deal

(01:55:54):
that you can't get on this onetime? He's that doesn't mean that you're
not building a relationship and a reputepian and like you could eventually get on
the shows, Like why are wethrowing a temper tantrum right now. But
I wanted to be like, goon, but yeah, but also I
didn't quite understand her choice to sabotageSusie had nothing to do. Whether it

(01:56:18):
was just whether it was like thispassive kind of thing that she was like
kind of blaming Susie because she's theone who got her the the the job
of being the writer. But I'mlike, that didn't It wasn't like anything
towards Gordon. She wasn't like likemaking mistakes when they're in the writing room.
It only affected Susie. Ye anupset. I don't think even my

(01:56:42):
thought of Susie, she didn't.Susie never crossed her mind. She was
just pissed that she didn't get whatshe wanted. And we know Midge has
a little bit of an issue withentitlement and things have been handed to her.
Oh good lord, who does that? Who does that remind you?
Oh well that I was gonna sayback, Abe, she is very much
her father's daughter. Oh yeah,she was pouding as Abe does. But

(01:57:08):
I just self sabotaging, but alsosabotaging her her friend, her best friend
and manager. That was I wasso pissed. I was like, how
could you do this to Susie,Like this is her literal neck on the
line, yep, And she justdidn't even think about it. And same
thing with Ford and Ford thing ifshe's pouding like she doesn't know who's showing

(01:57:31):
up at these industrial musicals, ifthere's going to be pressed there, like
she could have really taken that endrun with it. But you're making two
grand bitch, b you see youyou be happy, You be happy.
It's a job, Like do yourjob. And she's she has already made
a point of very clearly saying toSusie, Susie, these guys are bad

(01:57:57):
news. You are in a situationwhere they own your ass. And Midge
knows that this is Do they knowwhat reciprocate? Yeah, I know what
reciprocate. But this is not gonnaThis is not where it ends, Susie,
Like, get your head out ofthe out of the sand, Like,
wake up, Susie and realize thatyou are in it deep with these
guys. She's completely aware of allthese things. All goes out the window.
Now, I will say to playthe other side of it as a

(01:58:19):
performer myself, as an actor,I know I understand what it's like getting
the door constantly slammed in your face. Guys, like one day a week
at least. There's there comes apoint every week where I become this version
of Midge and I'm like, youknow what, I can't take another fucking
rejection. Fuck it, I'm givingup. Fuck it. And I'll be

(01:58:42):
that way for like half a dayand I'll just hmmm, and I'll like
slam things around my apartment and I'lljust call my mama and be like,
I can't do an amar, Ican't dig it. I quit. I
quit every week as an actor,every week. But that's the thing that's
my process has not faced that much. But I but yeah, and this

(01:59:04):
is the thing. I quit whenI don't have a two thousand dollars paycheck
to stand on stage and read itall lines. It's awesome musical, you
know, like Snidge nit she hadcontinued to be like on book with her
script in her hand, but didit enthusiastically. They would have been thrilled,
yeah, right, like they were. They were kissed that she wasn't
off book, but they were likewhatever, if she had given it her

(01:59:26):
all and really trot yeah, butcharmed him she could have. She was
she's cute. What do they callher the dirty cute girl or so yeah,
the dirty cute, the cute dirtygirl. But also like and I
was trying to think, like,you know, she almost she seemed like
she was like drunk girl, Likejust it just seemed so unprofessional, eating

(01:59:47):
on the stage, the going upand like, how dare she go up
to test is beautiful? Ta sitthere? I was, I gass,
I has clutched my pearls. Iwas so head at her. I'm like,
I couldn't think of another time whereshe had a temper tantrum that was,

(02:00:08):
um, what's warranted? Like,I don't think that like the level
of her up now. I knowshe said some days are a what was
it like, worse than others,are better than others. But I'm like,
that isn't that dream? Your dreamis to be famous, not to
be on the gourd of Ford Shore. This is so new And I kept

(02:00:29):
to take it back to the firstepisode of season five. I know.
I'm sorry, Carol, like,yeah, it's it burns like that whole
go forward. I'm like, shejust took like ten steps backwards and just
acted like a little brat. I'mjust like vigorously nodding my head. At
the end of time, you're talkingwell, And it's just I think this
is something that I've seen in youknow, un comments on articles or internet

(02:00:54):
forums, like people get frustrated withMidge's privilege. Yeah, and I think
it's pretty egregious. It's pretty it'spretty bad where it's just like, look,
woman, not everything is gonna beideal. And what pisses me off
even more is like, did shenot listen to Lenny at all? I

(02:01:15):
was like, Yeah, I waslike, did we not just go over
this that you're gonna have to likework for it and do some gigs that
aren't glamorous or ideal. But it'snever a bad thing as any kind of
performer to be out on stage infront of people performing Like, I don't
care. She's not doing stand up, she's getting paid one her friend is

(02:01:40):
basically being is owned by the moband she knows it. So it just
the whole time, I was like, and her children are watching like complete
this. Oh, that is theleast of her worries. She don't care.
It's still I think it just demonstratesher her like I don't want to
call it her maturity, but justlike the fact is it is, she

(02:02:02):
just doesn't. It was very immature, just no consideration to anyone else.
And also it's like, Abe,she's so a who is um? Who
is frank and nick and so isEsther? Oh yeah, oh where was
he? Was he there? Whois Frankie Nicky? Were they there?
They kept up showing these man likeis it going to be kind of like

(02:02:26):
a a poker face where it's umlike you know, I know, celebrity
foster. Something that Joel said mademe and maybe also that I've been rewatching
Bargo made me think of something.So Frank and Nikki, you know,
keep referring to their boss and obviouslywe've never actually seen who their boss is.

(02:02:50):
And when Joel is talking to Susiekind of like what the hell did
you get into? Are you mobbedup? Like what is going on?
And he makes a comment about howthe whole show essentially looked like what part
two of the Appalachian Meeting? Yeah, I find it in my and you

(02:03:12):
know, for listeners who might notknow what that is, the Appalachi Appalachian
Meeting was an Appalachian New York andit was in the late fifties, and
it was at Joe the Barber's house, who is this notorious mobster, And
it was a gathering essentially of allof these different mafiosos from all over the

(02:03:34):
United States, from Italy, fromCuba, you know, all over.
And law enforcement caught on eventually becauseall of these very nice, expensive cars
from all over the country and allover the world were gathered in this one
small town. But it made mewonder if it was some sort of a
hint that Frank and Nikki in someway are connected to May's family and that

(02:04:00):
operations going on in JO clubs likeso much. She's like, because I
was like, why are they like, well, no, remember they remember
remember when um when uh uh lastseason, wasn't it last season? It
was like one of the final episodesof last season where Midge was talking to
Nikki from both Frank and Nikki andthey were like, do you want us

(02:04:21):
to look into her? And She'slike, no, no, it's fine.
Well maybe and they were like wefound out who who her parents are?
You don't want to mess So Idon't know if they're connected, or
at least they weren't at that moment. But doesn't mean that they won't make
friends. I mean, but Iwas just like and with Joel, like,
there's a lot of there's a lotof mafia shit going on. There's
the Matchmaker mafia, there's whoever theboss of Nicki and Frank are. There's

(02:04:45):
May's parents, which I don't knowif that's still in the in the mix
or not, but I mean it'sI hope, so I hope they don't
just drop that club is still yeah, yeah, yeah, going anywhere.
But they haven't. They haven't addressedthe fact that he threatened them, he
got really beaten up, and likethat. He hasn't gone back to the
club yet. I would like tosee that, because that's it's been like

(02:05:09):
what two of Joels, Yeah,like have he has he been back to
the club since I'm sure you canget back to the club. They just
haven't shown it. We just haven'tseen him. We need to see it.
Ye, word hasn't happened. Sowe didn't get a lot of this
episode, but I but what wegot was good. They're on it's true,
and they're on a little campaign tomake us all forget that Joel's an

(02:05:30):
asshole, and it's working because wegot all protective. I know you're reading.
I know it's you're reading. Yes, I guess help me. I
was like, oh, Joel,and he's right, like he has every
reason to be concerned. And thirtypercent, which you know, comes out
that what they owe, like whatshe owes them of her earnings and Midge's

(02:05:55):
earnings, that is a lot ofhuge number. And I think Joel like
obviously still loves and cares about Midge. He cares about his kids, so
he has every reason to have hishackles up. Basically, yeah, yeah,
Joel over heres. So Frank andNiki are pissed. They threatened Susie
and poor like Susie has really puther foot in it, like she has

(02:06:17):
really fucked it up, Like thisis all her faults. It is uh
yes, And and although Midge knewthat this whole thing was Susie's fault,
like how much has Susie done foryou? This is your ride or die?
Like, bitch, you are throwingher under the bus. You're throwing
a tantrum. It's and if Icould just backtrack for one second, the

(02:06:39):
thing that annoyed me the most aboutthis whole Midge throwing a tantrum on stage.
Thing was that I wanted it tobe at least more fun, like
if you're gonna if you're gonna throwthe show, do it in a exciting
way, like like have some funwith it. No, she just I
wanted it to be bigger, LikeI wanted her to be, you know,
doing obnoxious dance moves and like bumpinginto the other dancers. I wanted

(02:07:02):
her to be um, you knowlittle actively yeah, like trip that little
boy, like actively funny, yeah, like make it bigger. She just
seemed to be like nit nah,like pissie throwing age if she wanted to.
It was just it was annoying andobnoxious, and I just like,
I think, oh, it wasthe worst. It was the worst possible
way that she could have gone aboutit. It is not just finest Hour.

(02:07:25):
Yeah, I will say when itfirst started up again and I was
like, how much of this musicalare they going to show us again?
And then when she started with herattitude, as soon as she crunched that
apple all sacily, I was like, oh okay. On the one line.
For the one line that I didreally like was apparently the one thing
these people haven't thrown away as theamphetamines, and like the waitress is just

(02:07:46):
like, huh like more of that, more of that would the businessman?
Yeah right, that's what I'm saying. More of that. Like there was
one moment where the little boy wascart wheeling and he's still says his line
exactly on cue, and Midge islike, boy, that's annoying. I'm
like, fuck you, Midge,and what are you right? And at

(02:08:09):
the end she was like what areyou kid? Thirty? And I gotta
say I did love the ending finalnumber when they're all the whole cast is
like bringing it home and they're allin a line doing their chorus kick line
on stage and they're like, goodbyejunk misplaced, or like so long fumes
and waste and hello private waste,private waste management, take it away,

(02:08:33):
trash. Like that was good.That was very were professional at least they
kept it together. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I totally am right
with you on this whole Like Iwas very annoyed by Midge. There was
just you did it. You didthe worst thing you could have possibly done
in the worst like most annoying,little childish way that you could have done

(02:08:58):
it. And so so we getthis whole Frank and Nicki rock Susie's world,
and it really broke my heart,Like I just felt such I felt
Susie's pain. So Frank and Nickicome in, they threatened Susie. Then
Joel comes in and threatened Susie.So it's like, we own thirty percent
of you, everything you do,everything you touch, everything she touches.
That's the deal for how long?For as long as you are Susie fucking

(02:09:20):
Myerson And and then before he walkedher, Nikki's like, and next time
there's going to be tech. Thatwas a great line. And when he
said, don't you ever fuck withanother musical production of ours again? I
was like, when are you guysgoing to have another musical production? Apparently
it's that Joel has already bailed Susieout in terms of her fucking with Midge's

(02:09:46):
money, so he obviously kind ofowns her too a little bit. Yep.
And unless she just she makes somebad choices when it comes to finances,
Like you said earlier, Jade,she needs a finance she advisor,
yeah, because and a lawyer anda lawyer working. Yes, oh god,
she needs a lawyer. But Joeldid deliver a really good line.

(02:10:09):
And I would love it if Jade, would you know how you're not cute
just because you're four feet tall anddressed like the cats? And Jammer Kid,
did I do it? That wasit. I really love how we
how we read each other's vines.It's like so incredibly convenient. It's like,
do it, do it. Idon't know how how we do it,

(02:10:30):
but let's just keep doing it.Um yeah. It makes me love
Joel that he always goes to batfrom Midge, even though in this moment,
like he doesn't know all the factsand he could be totally wrong.
This could be partly Midge's fault.No, he's right on the money.
It is actually completely Susie's fault.And he's always ready to tear Susie a
new asshole. Um yeah. AndSusie gets really emotional with Joel and she's
like, no, it's fine.Like and Alex Borstein does that thing where

(02:10:52):
she like she holds back tears andher voice kind of quivers, and oh
yeah, she does it so wellgets me. I think everything her eyes,
like her eyes and how expressive sheas. You can just see the
panic lashing and I was like Ibelieve her. Every ounce of me believes
her. Yep, m hm andoh. I wanted to say, for

(02:11:16):
anyone who doesn't know what the castand Jammer kids are, it's like an
old comic strip, lots of suspendersand page boy caps. So basically just
yep, all right, So thenanything more we want to say about I
think that we said all there isto say about the Midge. Yeah,

(02:11:37):
Midge go to your room, bitch, no dessert for a week? Yeah,
yeah, yeah, Midge is inthe dog. I was. I
was scared of Frank and Nikki,like, yeah, they were very scary
for the first time they were.They were threatened ship. Ye. I
was like, Okay, man,you fucked up. Carrie, You're really
You're really like, um, Idon't even know that I've really took it

(02:12:00):
in. When I watched the episode. I watched it through twice and then
I had it on in the background, like at every possible moment that I
could to soak in all of thedensity that is in this script and just
catch any little like thing that Imissed, and there was so much that
I probably still missed. Um,yeah, you could rewatch any any Amy
Sherman Palladino thing you could endlessly rewatch. But uh yeah, I think that

(02:12:22):
I think that we caught. Ithink that that's I mean, all we
can say about it. Yeah,Midge was very disappointing. So let's get
onto Sophie Lennon on Gordon Ford Show, Sophie saves the day. Gordon's talking

(02:12:43):
to the zoo guy with the slothlaying on his lap. This loth is
laying on his back eating a banana. Picked the best animal, This is
the most I was just like,come on, Jordan, Jordan, you
can tell I'm getting tired, Like, come on, Gordon, Like,
don't be upset about having to dealwith a slow Like it'd be different if

(02:13:07):
it was any other And yeah,really but he's just like and the way
his face lit up when he sawSophie Lennon the room belief that flooded.
Now, riddle me. This didnot Mike Carr say on the last episode
that Sophie was like slotted to beon the show. She was like scheduled,
her name was on that board.But then I remember at the very

(02:13:28):
end, didn't Susie like rearrange thenames or something. Oh, I don't
remember, not remember remember they hadwhen when all of a sudden, Mike
was being all nice to Susie andhe's like, maybe we should have lunch
or something, and it's like,where did you during the ice skating party
when Susie went into um Gordon andI saw a wat shot. Yeah,

(02:13:48):
so she was like looking at thisboard and Mike is saying, thanks a
lot for introducing introducing us to Susie, or thanks low for introducing us to
Sophie because she's going to be onthe show again. She's a great guest.
People love her, and like youmade that happen. Thanks, you
know, and he was finally showingSusie respect, and I was like,
well that okay, good. I'mglad they're friends, but like kind of

(02:14:11):
out of nowhere and now they're likesaying there was a big made a big
point to say that Sophie had notbeen on the show since that first time
before she got on seconds Count,and I'm like, hmm, I thought
she was supposed to have been aguest on the show maybe because yea time,
because yeah, because that that didn'tmake sense to me. What first

(02:14:33):
of all, why Susie would dothat, Like why she would fuck with
the board right when she finally madefriends with Mike, like, why would
you true? Why? I don'tknow. I'm confused. Any listeners who
are listening and you have light toshed, please shed the light. Because
we are merely human. We don'thave all the answers, although we have
most answers. No, kid,do you think this is I was going

(02:14:58):
to say, do you think thisis our last appearance of Sophie Lennon?
I think it is going to bepissed that Sophie was the one that ended
up getting that spot, and Ithought of it just harass snail. That's
true. The sixty minutes thing mentioned, She's like, what, it's nineteen

(02:15:20):
sixty one, so she's like twentyeight ish and on sixty minutes. In
the flash forward, it says thatshe has like the what the eighteen consecutive
sold out shows at the copa whenshe's thirty And I was just like,
you know, two years not ahuge chunk of time in this universe,
and I just wonder, like ifSusie not, you know, if the

(02:15:45):
mob stuff comes out On top ofMidge being extra motivated seeing Sophie Lennon back
on a spot that she wanted ifthat kind of spurs there, you know
issue. I just want to knowhow long it took for them to have
conflict, But I don't know.M Yeah, I think that it makes
it even like I said, Iwas hammering those nails into the pain.

(02:16:11):
The pain coffin. That is Midge'sexperience right now, not being able to
be on the Gordon Ford Show,and like now it's and Sophie is just
like, Opie, you love me, and I am here to save the
day. And Gordon's like beaming atSophie and he's just when she walks onto
that set and his eyes light uplike a fucking kid on Christmas morning.

(02:16:31):
I was like, oh, yeah, I don't think this is a lot.
Why do you say that, Erica, Why do you ask that question?
Did it seem to you like thiswas going to be because I didn't
get that. I got the impressionlike there is more Sophie to come.
Yeah. I was just thinking aboutit just because we're getting a lot of
things kind of closure of a lotof scenes, and I'm just wondering,
like what you guys thought about that, Like could this possibly be? Because

(02:16:52):
we only have what five more episodes? Yeah? Yeah, but that's a
lot for this show. That's alot. Yeah, that's true. Like
they I could see it, likeif they wanted it to be her last
scene. They've set it up where, yeah, she came in to save
the day, but now she's oftenhas this own her own game, posting
this game show, so maybe she'snot really competition anymore. But I don't

(02:17:16):
know. I feel like Sophie's alittle too stubborn, just like Midge and
is not going to be out ofthe comedy game. Yeah. Yeah,
comics are a certain kind of breedof human, like theater actors, like
you know, actors in general.But I feel like, like for instance,

(02:17:39):
a Shakespeare or classical actor, whichis my background, that's we are
a certain kind of animal. Thenyou got like opera singers, certain kind
of crazy. You know, it'sit's it's all crazy, but it's specific
kinds, you know. So Ithink stand up comics are they're certain kind
of crazy. And Midge and uh, Midge and Sophie have their similarities,

(02:18:03):
you know, Like Midge was willingto work with Sophie. Sophie couldn't handle
it. She didn't wanted Midge comeon my show, open for me on
my show, and then Sophie justcould not. She saw the audience.
No one else can laugh at anotherperson except me. I will be the
funny. She thought she could handleit. Nope, she cannot. So
yeah, they're they're very similar.Not that I think that Midge can't share

(02:18:26):
the spotlight. I don't think thatthat's Midge's problem. I think Midge's problem
is is appalling selfishness. Oh yeahsher, Yes, yes, she's very
much. She can be vindictive.I like that about her. That's also
I feel like she stands up forherself. Yeah, that's so rare,

(02:18:50):
especially with female characters. It's lessrare. Now we get a lot of
strong female characters, but especially ina setting of you know, the fifties
and sixties. I'm more forgiving,yeah, that aspect of her because yeah,
you know, very fantasy to justroll over and go, oh yes,

(02:19:11):
sir, you know, can Ihave some flowers now? Yeah,
unlike Sophie, whose problem is she'slike five years old in the way,
that's not two people can't be funny. It has to just be me or
she has this self sabotage thing.But anyway, So anything more about the

(02:19:31):
Sophie Lennon on The Gordon Ford Show. I just wanted to call out this
zookeeper man his uh well, firstof all, what she says to the
sloth. She goes, hello,I think I wore your brother to Del
Monico's last night, and I'm like, wow, that rude. That joke
would not play today. No,hell no, yeah, Peter, and
then all over yeah, yeah,she would be hashtag canceled. And then

(02:19:56):
the zoo guy has a cart tunishlylike emoji level frown on his face when
Sophie crashes the interview. He doesn'thave a single line, but the frown
on his face is like an upsidedown you. It's like literal right,
It's so funny, so excited,and his little yeah in his little safari
hat. I don't know. Ithink I think he did have a line.

(02:20:20):
He did he said to the sloth, and I forget the sloth's name
because this episode is so dense.Was that it? Yeah, Oh my
god, you're great. You're allsee there you go taking it up where
I'm just obsessed with animals. That'sthe only reason I remember. He was
so happy and he goes, wenever get asked to do a third slot
or like you know, we neverget asked on, like you know,

(02:20:41):
people always are rushing us off theshow. And he's like so excited with
his sloth and the sloth is justlaying. They're like, ah, but
not nah, poor guys, fademe. I will get feed any termite
either. I know. It's justso rude. It was excellent. Okay,
So Susie confronts my car about Golden'sGordon's rule and Mike's like, uh

(02:21:07):
hashtag not my fault. Yeah,Gordon's Gordon's makes the rules. Talk to
him. He's not wrong, wrongSusie, She's just like grasping for Shaw.
She's just like, yeah, she'spanicking. This was one part while
I was like where I was justkind of like, okay, well,
Susie obviously needed to get into thebuilding to run into Hetty, So right

(02:21:33):
there we are contrivance. It's aplot contrivance. Yeah, and then I
can do about it. It's outof my hands, that's what it is.
Calling a spade a spade, y'allsorry about it. Well, I
will never be upset seeing more,Mike, So I'll take it, and
I'm never more upset. I mean, I'm never more upset. I'm never
upset at all seeing Nina Arianda.Let's get through it. So at this

(02:21:54):
point, at this point, mystomach is like in nuts, right,
Like how much more? Kin Susieleave Susie? Chris Crocker, Susie,
I just wanted to I was ChrisCrocker in this moment. Okay, Kara,
Kara, Kara's yep, yeah,yep's over real, like seriously leaves

(02:22:20):
Susie like she can't take it,y'all. Like she's been threatened. Then,
she's been threatened some more then she'sbeen Joel rightfully has been mean and
threatened. Yeah, like it,where's Dinah? I need we need like
a rescue remedy, like in thisvery moment, because I don't know if

(02:22:41):
I were Susie and I saw myex if this that's what this is,
I don't know. Let's get intoit. So Nina Arianda calls her Susan
and it is awkward as hell,Like it's so weird. As she's running
after her Susan, I'm like,what it never it never stopped getting weird
every time she said it. Iwas like, that is so weird to
hear Susie called Susan. Do Ilook like a Susie? Yeah, so

(02:23:03):
your mom named Susie. I boughtit, you know, I don't believe
bought it, but apparently no.Um, let's so someone else talk about
this. She's running after Suzie.I just there were let's start with this
the whole entire time. Okay,you go. Oh, I was just
I want to at the top beforewe get too into it. How does
she how do they know each other? Was it colleges? College? Right?

(02:23:26):
I thought that was the impression thatI got. Is that so Susie
went to college? I knew eachother in college. Susie also apparently went
to law school right night point.I guess here's where I was confused because
one of my favorite like throwaway Susielines from earlier in the show is that
little speel about her mom like leavingher at the Armistice Day parade, which

(02:23:52):
was in September of nineteen nineteen.And if this is nineteen sixty one and
fifteen years ago, whatty s?I was like, Yeah, so Hetty
would be around thirty seven, andSusie Meyerson is definitely not thirty seven like
I thought she was closer to youknow, Alex Borstein's real age. This

(02:24:18):
is like what fifty one fifty two, right, But if she was at
best like let's say, a fiveyear old in nineteen nineteen or like a
four year old in nineteen nineteen,it just doesn't like I don't under math,
the math ain't mathin no, whichI get it, like, and
this happens sometimes in and I thinkit's been commentality, Yeah, yeah,

(02:24:41):
inconsistencies with characters like this. Yeah, it's been commented on in the past.
And I'm trying. I've been rackingmy brain as you've been talking to
think about what the moment is wherea Season one, I just had it
pop into my brain, a memoryof Midge going to Susie, how old
are you? Yeah, there's somethingthat she says and I can't remember what
it is because Susie talks about rememberingsomething that's like from the turn of the

(02:25:03):
century, and it's like why howthat happens multiple times though, where it's
made kind of clear that Susie isdefinitely Susie is a turn That's what it
is. She's a turnal find out. But yeah, they talked about lacrosse
and like a party where they hada fight, so it definitely was full
one together at the same time.So this is just like the party that

(02:25:30):
we went to where you where you'resupposed to dress up like the woman you
admire most, and you came asLady Macbeth and we got into that terrible
fight. You left right away,right away, and I caught you then
too, And then she goes througha revolving door and head he goes,
oh, no, you went througha glass door. However, however,
will I find you? That wasfunny, and like, I did not

(02:25:52):
hear that until like my third fourthwatch when I had it on in the
background, and I'm like, Ijust caught these little snippets that you will
always otherwise miss And I only heardit when I wasn't looking at the screen.
I was like doing dishes, andhowever, will I find you?
But it also implies that this waslike a college experimentation phase for Hettie,

(02:26:13):
and I was just like, Ifeel so many things. I obviously right,
your heart breaks for Susie. Susie'sfeeling so many things. She's like,
you fall apart and shit and throwup, and just her. If
I was Susie, my brain wouldhave broken. Yeah, just short circuited

(02:26:35):
nothing there, And she said,like, you know, you made promises
and plans and when Hettie I wastwenty two, like I was, I
was a Redhead two plans at two. Yeah, and that was a mistake
too. That was so horrible.Clearly Susie wasn't a mistake. She said,
I couldn't handle it. And thenthen I started going into like I

(02:26:58):
felt horrible for Susie. But atthe same time, it's nineteen sixty one
and Hettie is also having to dealwith all of this, you know,
cultural pressure, and I just Icouldn't hand out. Like I feel like
I'm going to get really upset thenext time we see anything from them,
because it's just going to be kindof heartbreaking. There's something going. I

(02:27:20):
mean, she tells Susie, youlook really good, playfully grabbing her little
hat, and you know what's youknow what I felt that Hetty reminded me
of like Midge energy, Like clearlySusie has a type like her, Oh
yeah, her woman's her woman's Yeah, she falls for a certain kind of
willy. She's running after Susie,refusing to acknowledge the fact that Susie is

(02:27:41):
incredibly upset and like she just willnot acknowledge this. Like remember when Susie
first saw Midge's apartment and she washolding Ethan's hand and she's like, why
is this childhand? Very sticky?And Susie is like, what is what
is this? Your table is setfor? What is this? Versailles?
You know, like you have cutLariva thirty? Who has cut Lariva?
Pred you gotta you got a spareplace in case you get you get bored

(02:28:03):
the other one and she's like,where are we right now? And this
is my apartment? She's like,this is your fucking apartment. Like Susie
is just so pissed and Midge justrefuses to acknowledge it. That's just how
Midge, and it's their dynamic,you know, like Susie has always got
her panties in a kerfuffily twist andMidge is just not bothered, well unless
Midge is bothered, in which caseshe's very bothered. Like Midge has a

(02:28:26):
switch when it flips, you don'twant to know her, but Mitch,
Midge can take a lot much likeRose, you know, super patient women.
Rose is so patient, but Ijust feel so bad. Yeah,
yeah, like the hurt and likeshock on her face when she said something
to Hetty about apologizing and Hetty waslike, apologized for what? And I

(02:28:52):
was just like, are you hittingcomplete disregard. I'll apologize if you want
me to. I was like,bitch, no, you didn't. It
made me wonder. I was like, were they in was it a defined
relationship or was this situation where Susieyou know, thought and hoped it was
more. But obviously Hetty played intothat if Susie's focusing on her making promises

(02:29:16):
and plans, and I could seeHetty getting you know, kind of cold
free feet and panicking and not beingready to you know, acknowledge that aspect
of her life and take that nextstep. But it just I'm glad Amy
Sherman Palladino is finally addressing this.Yes, it took you long enough in
the eleventh hour, but we've madeit. It's like, I will say,

(02:29:39):
there's a news article that's kind ofon point about this coming out revelation
of Susie's and it made me feela little bit better about Amy Sherman Palladino
taking so long to bring this up. But I think anybody that has watched
any show in the Palladino universe knowsthat they're treatment of homosexuality can be problematic,

(02:30:03):
and yeah, smid, so itwas, and like totally, it's
the reason that I love Amy ShrmanPalladino because she's just like really problematic and
so few people are nowadays, Likemost people are just so careful, everything
is so PC and everything is sosanitized, and then there's Amy Sherman Palladino.
I'm just like, oh, shesaid it, and I love that

(02:30:28):
because that's I'm that person. I'mthat person who who goes, oh,
oh, there's the line. Ifound it. I found it because I
fucking crossed it. And now Imade some enemies. I've been canceled exactly,
but it's just I don't know.It was refreshing to finally get it
out on the table, but thenit also just made me really sad seeing

(02:30:48):
how affected Susie was and how apparentlyunaffected Petty seemed. I don't buy it.
I still think she's she has tohave feeling. She seems too nice.
And also, oh, I wasjust gonna say, I don't think
I worry about Susie, because yeah, we know, but nobody else knows

(02:31:11):
what happened. And she did makethat comment about like wanting to go to
get a drink because it was verypublic on the sidewalk, and obviously they're
standing in front of the thirty Rock, so yeah, you know, popular
spot. But yeah, I amvery intrigued to see how that develops.
Right. The thing that if thatstruck me was the kind of lacrosse metaphor

(02:31:35):
that they're playing with here. She'slike, there was still lacross after you
quit. Yeah, like what doesthis mean? And then you know,
Hettie is like, the universe istelling us something that we ran into each
other for a reason. A ha, And it's like, yeah, I'm
sure it's real easy to be happy, go lucky, not affected by someone
else's clear pain. She's saying inno uncertain She's she all but spit in

(02:32:00):
Hetty's face. She's like, getthe fuck out of my way, go
away, leave me alone. Doyou not see I'm about to fall apart
right now. Susie just needs toget into a room, lock the door
and cry. That is what Susieneeds to do. She can't hold it
in anymore. She's like everywhere shegoes she's getting slapped in the face.

(02:32:20):
Yeah, lives all out like Ican't handle you know, I just needed
to. I was so like hetty. That is the title of this episte.
Yeah, and she says, youare Gordon Ford's wife and that's all
you are to me, that isand she's like, I'm more than that.
It's like, no, you're not, though, you know, Like
she just like Midge, She's verysimilar to Midge. Like Midge, She's

(02:32:41):
got this privilege. She's a gorgeous, tall, blonde bombshell married to a
rich guy. Yeah, life mustbe fucking sunshine and roses. Look at
me. I'm a basically out manperson lesbian. Everyone is just like,
excuse me, young man like andshe just owns it. No one.
Everyone treats Susie like a scrap ofgarbage, that is how And she just

(02:33:01):
rolls the fuck with those punches.And right now she's hit her. She
can't take no mo like she wason them urge if she didn't get out
of there of almost accepting that drinkwith her too, because that last line,
like you mentioned, of her sayinglike you look good as a blonde,

(02:33:24):
like getting that out, I waslike, stay strong, Susie,
like get out of there right now, time of day. Yeah. Yeah,
these moments when we see Susie,like when she comes home to Jackie
and just breaks down in that inher little chair in her little tiny apartment,
and it's like whoa, it hitsyou like a ton of bricks to
see Susie Myerson this way because she'sso strong, you know, but God,

(02:33:50):
she's like you forget how how muchof a trooper she really is.
And it moments like this like reallyremind me to give Susie and I'm I'm
talking about her like she's a realperson because of what Susie like represents to
be. She says. At onepoint, she looks at Hetty and says,
I am what I always was.I'm I've never hid who I am,

(02:34:13):
and it's you know, I'm notacknowledged, I'm not seen. I
can't be completely honest. No,but I don't um, I don't pretend
I don't wear a mask, likeshe's calling Hetty out for basically wearing a
mask. Kind of like Midge,Midge, I think, really really she
seems to I don't know Hetty verywell or whatever, but Midge, she

(02:34:35):
she is a genuine, happy housewife, like her world was rocked at that
Pyrex show. And that's not alie. She does love being she wants
to be Rose. You know,that's her idol and that's never going to
go away from her. But theway that Susie was calling out Hetty,
it made me feel like she wassaying, you're a liar and I'm not.

(02:34:56):
It was intense. It was impactto a path where she was being
authentic to who she felt she was. And she clearly does not think Hetty
made that same choice. She seesHetty as choosing the easy way out.
Obviously she's got it made with whoshe's married to, and you know,

(02:35:20):
and that also kind of has tohurt because she essentially chose that life over
Susie. It sounds like, yeah, and I just want to know who
they are to each other? Whatis the deal with these aged things with
Susie a teacher? Like I don'tknow. I found my brain was going
all over the place. I waslike, was she like she assistant?
Like did she just happen to benear this college? Like I don't understand.

(02:35:43):
She was walking, I mean,I just has like a backpack with
her something too. She was justacting like she she was an actually professor.
She wasn't even a girl here.Oh my gosh, she was posing
as as a college student. Ohthat was good. Who knows, who

(02:36:07):
knows. But the thing is is, like Susie, I love the way
that Susie. She's such a lifer, you know, and she just she
It's like I don't want to callher like like I was gonna say,
she's like such a cockroach, butlike I mean that the best way cock
a roach. I don't know ifanyone ever watched um Russian Doll. I'm
not a cock roach. But it'skind of like a huge compliment to say,

(02:36:28):
like she survived, She's a fuckingsurvivor. This is a show about
survivors. I know Tony Shaloub hassaid it in interviews, like these characters
are all survivors in their own way. But it's like, oh, how
hard it must be for you andyour white rich privilege to survive, you
know, But Susie is, youknow, very not privileged. And I'm

(02:36:50):
so excited to see where this storygoes and how they because I think that
what they did with this scene whereto talk like you were saying, Kara,
these issues don't always is get nailedwith Amy Sherman Palladino. If anyone
saw The Gilmore Girls. Granted thatwas a show of its time, but
her jokes even for that time,like didn't age great, like especially how

(02:37:11):
she treats homosexuality. But I willsay this scene knocked it out of the
park man. She said so much. I was, I was, I
was counting down the minutes and I'mlike, how is this episode not over?
First of all, this episode feltlike three in one. That's why
this podcast is going to be anotherthree hours. Sorry, not sorry.
I hope you're love. Hope you'reliking it. Listeners, I hope you're

(02:37:33):
enjoying be like long podcasts. Butno, Yeah, they they they nailed
it. They said so much withinsuch a tiny short amount of time.
At the very end, I waslike, what are they going to do?
And left us fun more so,Yeah, they gave us so much
and so little. Yeah, definitelyany predictions for this relationship and like how

(02:37:54):
they came to be. I mean, I'm assuming they're wanting us to take
that. They were in college atthe same time, and this was a
college situation where Hetty ended up probablylying to herself and convincing herself that it
was an experiment, that it wascollege, that you know, she was

(02:38:16):
young and those plans and promises didn'tmean anything. But I get the impression
that she is like love of Susie'slife. And I don't know if oh
my god, I don't know ifit's silly to hope for anything, but

(02:38:37):
I don't know. I don't thinkright now, at least within this time
for you. Yeah, Susie's nothaving it, no, and I don't
like, I don't know if theycould do it justice. I didn't realize
how like emotional this would have.Like this, this was making me like,
I have such I guess as youwere talking, like I have such
a So I'm a gay, youknow, I've been. I can't remember

(02:38:58):
a time when I wasn't gay eversince I was very very young. And
even though I it wasn't, itwas not at all like taboo. When
I was in high school, itwas still like I was one of two
lesbians in my high school who wasout. And there were some girls in
my high school who were not out, but they were and I we all

(02:39:20):
knew, but I was out andproud me and my one other friend um,
and I had an experience like thiswhen I got out of you know,
I just I'm trying. I'm justthinking back right now into like what
it was like being in the closetknowing who you are and like not knowing
that other people won't accept it.Yeah, we all have a coming out

(02:39:41):
story, all the gays. I'mnot alone in this. I'm not saying
I'm special, but like I had, I'm I was Okay, this is
what I'm trying to say. I'vebeen in so many relationships since I was
a very young child where I wasalways more in love. I was because
I was truly to them. Itwas a fling to them, it was
a fun experiment, but for me, I was it was love. And

(02:40:03):
there is a woman, you knowfor me, And yeah, like I'm
just realizing now why I have sucha connection because I have a heady and
it hurts, like soh So Ijust even the way that Susie needed to
get away from her because she neededto break down, she needed to cry
for for heavy, She's like,I really want to buy you that drink,

(02:40:24):
and and she's not in love withSusie. She it was fun for
her and it was it meant.She's yeah, And for Susie, She's
like, yeah, for Susie tosit down and have a drink with her,
She's like, do you know howpainful that would be for me?
It's not fun for me to seeyou. It is part my my heart

(02:40:46):
is breaking all over again every timeI look at your face. You know,
Oh, man, I can't talkabout it. You're gonna make me
tear just because it's so versatile forme. And I didn't even like,
I guess I connected the dots soquickly that I glossed over it didn't really
let myself emotionally go there. Butjust as you were talking, like,
god, my brain, sorry,I'm listeners, I'm like tripping all over

(02:41:07):
my words right now because I'm like, oh, I think my emotions.
That goes to show one how wellthese actors portrayed all of these complex emotions
and feelings where we have to readbetween the lines to really get all of
it, but it all comes acrossand you connect with it immediately, like

(02:41:28):
it was what the last minute anda half or something of the episode.
Yeah, that's why I'm saying.I was looking at the time and I'm
like, how are they going todo this, they got a minute?
What are they And of course AmySham Palladino talk fast, talk faster,
I'm not cutting this scene. Theactors talk fast. That end scene was

(02:41:48):
the only thing that made me goI wish they would have cut some of
that musical so I could have Susie. Like once we got to the end,
I was like, this is powerful. I was like, this is
what I want, I know,for the Susan episode, for the su
This was in the last two seconds. I'm like, Dad, the episode
is called Susan, Is there morenext week? Probably not, because that

(02:42:09):
one's not called that's called The PirateQueen. Who the fuck knows where that's
going. The Pirate Queen, itdoesn't sound is promising to be about all
gay? Yes, yeah, flashedback. I mean the Pirate Queen sounds
kind of gay. Yeah, ohyeah. But I just I don't know,

(02:42:31):
like I my heart broke for Susiein that moment, but also like
at the same time, looking atit without that kind of like raw personal
experience that you have, Jade,I still felt for Hetty because I was
just like, I don't, youknow, we don't know if I'm not

(02:42:52):
going to feel as much for herif she did see it as like this
experiment the whole time and knew howinvested Susie was, and like that's just
shame on her, Like that's justnot shame, shame. But if the
story develops to where she had herown internal struggle and felt all this bre
like that's going to be interesting tounpack. Um, And I don't know,

(02:43:18):
really have five episodes left and dude, I feel like there's so much
to tie up. But yeah,I don't know. I do I want
more of this Susan storyline for sure? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
please please? Oh man, Ihope, I hope it's coming.

(02:43:39):
Is there more anymore that we missedthat we want to discuss before we move
on? I think this has beenYeah, this has been so much.
I'm going to look through my extranotes real quick. Go ahead. It's
gonna just say that for this episode, it was worth it just because of
what we got to get at theend. Yeah. All right, So

(02:44:01):
let's move on to some marvelous MissusMazel news. Take it away, Kara,
all right. Our first article isfrom tv line and it's titled Missus
Masel's Alex Borstein talks cool chemistry withspoiler and brackets, which is Hetty perfect

(02:44:22):
progression of Susie's coming out arc.So in this article it touches on obviously
our giant Susie reveal, and I'mgoing to read a couple of excerpts from
it. The twist the marvelous missusMasel's fifth and final season had been dancing
around, has now been unequivocally confirmed. Gordon Ford's wife of Convenience, Hetty,

(02:44:48):
played by Billions actress Nina Arianda,has a romantic history with Susie.
Alex Borstein. The chemistry felt right, Borstein tells tv Line of her and
Arianda's fraught and flirty dynamic. Itfelt like she was a little bit better
than Susie, a little bit higherup from Susie, and I could see

(02:45:09):
how Susie would be in love withthat creature. She's always picked very funny,
smart women who were in control oftheir lives. The sequence capped a
long, gest stating five season longcoming out arc for Susie. For her
part, Borcting applauds the relatively slowpace of her alter egos journey. I

(02:45:30):
think the progression was perfect for theshow and how series creator Amy Sherman Palladino
crafted a woman in the fifties who'salready doing something really radical by trying to
be in this business and trying tomake a name for herself and support herself.
I don't feel like it was somethingthe character was hiding or stepping on
or felt constricted to share with theworld. The Emmy Winner's ads the Emmy

(02:45:54):
Winner ads of Susie's sexuality. Evenif Susie had been completely straight and had
a male lover, I don't thinkshe would have shared that with Midge.
I don't think she ever would havetalked about her personal stuff or anything about
her body with her. It wasa different time, and I think Susie
is just a very different creature interms of trusting anyone with that information.

(02:46:18):
And that was kind of what Iwas referencing, and it made me feel
a little bit better with how thePalladinos approach this, because I think she
does make a good point that Susieis a very private person in general,
and even if she had a boyfriendor some sort of complex romantic past,
I don't think she would have sharedthat with Midge. So I do think
it was, you know, akind of organic coming out story. I'll

(02:46:43):
forgive the palladinos. Yeah, I'dstayed in line with her character because she
doesn't share anything. She shares themlike little tiny tippets, and they come
out like they don't come out intentionally, they come out by mistake. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Everything with SusieMeyerson's life is like, how old

(02:47:03):
are you? Susie? Where didlaw school? What? Where did you
come from? What are you?She's so fascinating. I want this ben
off on like a broken record.Gimme's been off, give me spen off.
Yes, I want to Jeanie myselfsome spinoff. Yeah, I love
that. That's a great article.Yeah. So we had one more that

(02:47:24):
we Yeah, we wanted to talkabout one more that was more episode specific,
and this one was from Forward dotcom and the title was that industrial
musical and Missus Mazel wasn't a feverdream, it was history. It seems
like a fever dream. In episodefour of the new season of Marvelous Missus
Mazel, Mitch Mazel is at anindustrial exposition Cladden coveralls. She narrates some

(02:47:46):
musical featuring tap dancing, garbage benand singing trash heat. It seems so
kitchy and it's so hard to believethat shows like this actually existed. But
it turns out that this episode isjust another example of the Missus Marvelous Missus
Masel's ititment to history. Industrial musicalswere very real. There were entire productions
about serox machines, listerine, Johnsonand Johnson's sunscreen, and diesel engines.

(02:48:09):
By the sixties, there were socommon that even products like spark plugs and
blankies had shows. Whatever product youcould think of, food, machinery,
appliances, if the brand existed ahalf a century ago, it probably had
a musical. And just going backto my notes and I didn't share it,
I started taking some notes of thedifferent things that they had like kind
of advertised within the expo, andit kind of like kind of relates to

(02:48:33):
that that they were just there forgarbage or kitchens. There was like different
things that they were I think therewas like light dimmers and illuminate elimination,
all sorts of stuff. Yeah,it was like, okay, we're at
the Sam's Club of you know,product placement. The article continues with industrials
as they were known were far morethan just a song or two. There

(02:48:56):
were pyrotechnics, There were dancers ora choreographer, and state stage managers and
costume designers, and many big Broadwaynames were involved. Bob Fossey choreographed for
them. Martin Short and Cheetah RiveraOh my God Love Them both performed in
them. John Kander and Fred Ebbett, the songwriting team known for shows such
as Chicago and Cabaret, did songsfor General Electric. The industrials might look

(02:49:18):
painfully cheesy to our modern sensibilities,but at the time they were legitimately moving.
They were selling a version of theAmerican dream, a world in which
each employee could rise up the ladder, and they were selling the idea of
selling by painting the product as somethingthat made America strong or push human innovation
forward. I guess that's where jinglesmay have come from, right, virtials,

(02:49:41):
that's very cool. Yeah, you'reso right, Yeah, yeah,
yep. I didn't even think aboutthat. And that's what it is,
like those cheesy, like you know, song jingle you know that we all
make fun of nowadays. It's sucha it's a thing to a lot of
commercials like spoof that you know it'syeah. I just immediately thought of folgers

(02:50:05):
like I can seeing that in myhead and so yeah, okay, yeah
that makes sense. Yeah. Imean as a I do a lot of
commercials and they want you to beas they Every breakdown that I get for
as a voiceover, Um, everyaudition not typical. Announcery does not sound
announcery conversational, approachable, sounds likeyour best friend talking talking in a bar,

(02:50:30):
you know, Like that's what theywant. They if you sound hi,
guys want to buy some soap.Like No, that is not like
all of the It's like the lessI try, the more I'm like,
hey, so you should buy thisthing, and everyone like talks like this.
I hate that was like that wastriggering for a lot of people.
Yeah, um, but yeah yeahit is not. The world is changed

(02:50:56):
now we make fun of those things. Oh yeah. Oh, since we
are running along, I do wantto mention one more article that I encourage
you guys to look up. It'sanother tv Line article and link will be
in the show notes and it's titledMarvelous Missus masl star wayhs In. On
May's departure in season five premiere,it was a complete shock It's an interesting

(02:51:18):
article that talks about what Amy ShermanPalladino and Daniel Palladino intended for May's character
to represent kind of this new versionof, you know, a career woman
in the sixties and making the choiceto pursue career before children. And there
are some really good quotes in therefrom Michael Sagan. Sagan zank you this

(02:51:41):
every time I say his name,about May's character and May's departure, So
that would be something if you're interestedin. I definitely encourage you to check
that one out. Did you guys? Notice I had this hit me and
I forgot about it. If Maymarried, Oh my god, I was
just going to say this, hername would be Mainmaisal it me. I

(02:52:05):
was just randomly doing something else andI thought of it. I'm like,
huh, I was just I wasjust saying the same thing, Jade.
Oh my god, I think ourbraids are started to lake up. We've
it's weird. It's weird, thethree of us. So that's it,
right, you you're down the news. Yes, there's that. Only one

(02:52:26):
more that basically lets everybody know thatthe New York City Mayor declared April fourteenth,
twenty twenty three, the Marvelous MissusMasel Day to kind of celebrate the
recognition that the show has brought toNew York City. That was an article
that I think Erica that was onethat you found right, Yeah, And
I will say that it was there'sso many pictures online, but I would

(02:52:50):
say that one of my favorite thingsright now that's going on TikTok. That's
not an article, but there isa trend with the nitty gritty dance and
what is that song called Pink Shoelacesthat Yeah, if I forget what the
hashtag is, I'm going to lookfor it right now. But if you
you know, look at that hashtagon Instagram or TikTok, you will see
like all these dances from that songand it's just incredible nice and there was

(02:53:13):
a lot of there's a lot ofall with a purple hat band. Yeah,
and there there was a lot offamous dancers in there, like Alex
Wong is a really big TikToker andInstagram and I love him so much.
But yeah, you're you're going tofind a lot of Miss Maisel kind of
like you know, tippets on therefrom from the actors and the dancers on
there. Yeah, oh yeah,I went down to missus mal TikTok rabbit

(02:53:35):
hole for sure. All right,let's get onto my favorite part of the
podcast. I never get tired ofsaying it. My favorite part of the
podcast, y'all. I love mesome listener feedback. Let's get into it.
Who wants to go from Taraen?You want to take that first one?
Sure? So our first bit oflistener feedback comes from Lisa Silver to

(02:54:00):
Levski. Yes said, this lastepisode was literally trash. It was such
a waste of time. It wasbeautiful rooms and dancing, But I hated
Midge and the way she sabotaged Susie. Yes, absolutely, How convenient that
her temper tantrum would not have helpedSusie out of her debt to those guys.

(02:54:24):
I feel Midge really never struggled.Absolutely, I'm just going to keep
encouraging and yeah, with your Lisa, she has given so many opportunities,
opportunities other comedians would kill to get, then takes a shit on them with
zero consequence. Even when she losther job with Shy, she didn't suffer,

(02:54:48):
not really. I agree. Itwas explained that there were other comedians
working on the show who couldn't perform. But she had a breakdown when there
was zero chance he would have puther on the show whether she worked there
or not. I don't know aboutthat one. I'm surprised she wasn't fired
for calling out Forward publicly for thejoke he screwed up. She learned nothing
after losing her job with Shy.Her entitlement is that is the season for

(02:55:13):
me. That's unfortunate, but Iget it kind of. Um I love
a strong woman, but I hatean asshole. I feel like that perfectly
summarizes the problem with Midge. Yeah, when she leans a little too far
into that asshole, it's not good. That sounds weird, but we'll ignore
that. Um. I would hateher, but she's just so damn cute.

(02:55:35):
She rocked that Oh wait, sherocked that garbage picker suit. Total
girl, Oh my god, totallydid. Totally did too. She looked
hot in that strong suit. Washow many people to pull that off?
I mean, okay, I'm soin love with Rachel Brosky. Beautiful.
Oh goddess, it's ridiculous. Iwas hoping for a flashboard of or maybe

(02:56:00):
even a flashback. Yes, toher maybe Romance Ford's wife. I'm here
for the flashback. Oh yeah,how exciting to see Nina Arianda Susie was
robbed this episode. Excuse me,and so were we. Joel needs to
just disappear. I want to fastforward whenever the storyline is on him.

(02:56:20):
They give so much time to sucha useless character. Tell us how you
really feel, Lisa, his parentsare Lisa never does she never does that.
Let's see his parents are great?So funny him blog, go the
fuck away already. My most marvelousmoment when Abe gathered the rose petals and

(02:56:43):
tossed them around Rose, then laidhis head upon her. I love them,
I truly love them. I agreenow to your last podcasts, Jade,
keep talking about acting, never apologize. How you all keep it fun
and true? Examine the show.I listened just to keep up my drinking
game, Jade, drinking whenever youexcitingly say acting at just acting? I

(02:57:13):
have played that drinking game before too. And why the kids are important?
I love it. I think yousaid, let's see we should play that
next. Never anyway, we'll neverget through a podcast. Oh no,
I can't introduce alcoholics all this.She said, and why the kids are

(02:57:33):
important because they weren't important. Lookat other comedians kids, Tom Hanks,
for example, one, I didnot see your feedback going in this direction.
No, I'm here for it.One son is squeaky clean, while
the other one is off the rails. Rosie o'donald two had problems with her
daughter. It killed me that Joelwas sad that May aborted the baby when

(02:57:54):
he could care less about the oneshe has. I didn't even think about
that. Oh well, I don'tknow. I don't know. Okay,
keep going, I'll coming after yea, his storyline is done. Go away?
Did I mention I hated Joel.I believe you can have a career
in kids, but if you chooseothers to raise them, you may not

(02:58:16):
like how they turn out. Sorry, this is all over the place,
but so is Season five. Gotsome hot takes here, Lisa. I
love Lisa's speedback so much. Ilove it. Even if I don't agree,
I love it. Keep it coming, Um fantastic. It was fantastic,

(02:58:41):
Bravo. Until recently, I wouldhave totally agreed with you about the
Joel thing. It's funny that youlove his parents so much because the parents
I can take or leave. Notthat I don't love the actors like Kevin
Pollock and um, Caroline Aaron.I love them, but it's for some
reason their scripts. Like on mythird watch of the first three episodes,

(02:59:01):
I was just like, uh,especially when when like, uh, what's
her name? Oh my god,Caroline Aaron Shirley surely thank you. I'm
like, it's a Shirley goes andgets drunk at the at Joel's Button Club.
I was just like, this isnot that funny. I feel like
it's the writing that they get though. It's like these kinds of but you
know what it is, they're jokesfrom another era. Yeah, And and

(02:59:24):
that's the thing is, like Ifeel like, you guys remember watching like
Mama's Family, Remember that show It'sIt's I watched it, and I love
that show because I love the actorsand I appreciate like the theatricality of it
all. But those jokes are notThere's stuff that my grandparents would find funny
that I just can't find funny becausewe're I'm too jaded growing up in modern

(02:59:48):
day you know. Yeah, theShirley stick for me is just a little
too hokey. And it just doesn'thit my funny bone. But like,
I appreciate what she is doing asa performer, Like I watch her like
in awe, totally awe. Youknow, um, and they have one
of the hardest jobs to do onthe show. But anyway, my comment

(03:00:09):
about to Joel, the Joel thingthat she said, the Joel is so
upset about the baby that may decidedshe's not going to have when he's got
two kids and he doesn't care aboutsomething. But I feel like he cares
more than Midge. But as Isay that, I'm like, but a
dish here, Yeah, a dishclothcares more about Midge's kids than Midge.

(03:00:31):
So that's really not saying much feelingJoel cares more about them then maybe I
guess his parents cared the most,but Joel's stepping up. True, he's
always got the kids. He hadthem when she was with Shy Baldwin.
You know he doesn't He's I don'tknow. I have given Joel a couple
of passes that I never thought Iwould. Yeah, I don't know.

(03:00:52):
If you remember when I first saidI wanted to do this podcast, I
was like, because I need aspace to rant about how much I hate
Joel. Hate Joel like I wantedto throw my television. First season one,
I was like up in arms.I was like, get your pitch
both him. Not until the Hecklerlike that, you couldn't like him at

(03:01:16):
all? Right, Yeah, butthis season I hated him so much back
then then, even on first watch, I was like, he's a maniac,
he's violent, what are you doing? And now rewatching it before season
five, I was like, oh, he's hurting and he's still protecting her.
And then I was like, damnit, the damn it. I

(03:01:37):
don't know that I could ever feelthat way about season one. I feel
like season one will always have thislike mm, I will never it was
just that one modele ago. Yeah, but I gotta say I'm disappointed in
myself, but it's happened. I'vefallen for the traps that they have laid,
and I've gotten to a little bitlike Joel, like a little and
it's I blame the actor though.Yeah, Michael Zagan is he is.

(03:02:00):
He's darn it. He's grown onme over maybe seasons. It finally happened.
He made Joel a human like,he made he humanized him. Yeah,
another actor. Another actor I wouldhave been very easy for me to
hate, but there's something about him. There's something about this man, you
know. And sometimes actors bug meand I feel like a bitch saying like
this person just bugs me. Butlike, for some reason, Joel like

(03:02:22):
as a person, as a asan actor, you know, I'm looking
at him as an actor. Iknow that's what it is. He doesn't
bug me. I like him.Yeah, I want to be friends with
him, you know. So that'swhy I think I can't help but kind
of start to like him. Alittle shocking. All right, I'm gonna
stop. I'm cutting myself off fromcommenting more, but thank you Lisa as
always, keep it coming, keepit coming, and hopefully you'll inspire other
listeners who don't you guys, youdon't have to just agree. Tell us

(03:02:46):
how you really, seriously please dobecause we will. Yeah. Yeah,
this is unpopular opinions. Welcome,Come as you are go Erica. You
read the next one right. Sothis is an email from Denise Friedson by
Denise. Hello, I wanted tothank you guys for doing this podcast.
I'm an MMM obsessed fan and ofcourse so sad that this is the final

(03:03:09):
season. The actors, dialogue,costumes, and storyline are so rich with
many layers, and I cannot getit off. Regarding the Flash Forwards,
I'm torn. I was enjoying howthe chronological storyline has led us to the
root, the really root from it. Let me read that again. I
was really enjoying how the chronologically storylinehas led us to really root from Midge

(03:03:30):
and Susie. And now the Flashwardshave taken us on some sort of has
taken some of that magic out ofknowing their future a way, Denise,
I'm going to apologize. It's almostmidnight. I'm tired, so I apologize
that I've destroyed as So that said, I think I'm upset with the picture
the Fords have painted from Midge morethan the Fords themselves. About episode four,

(03:03:50):
the Flashwoards have given Amy Dance somedevices that they began to use.
For instance, there's a line Midgesays about Esther being a genius sen and
Joe, but of course we allknow that Esther is a genius, which
makes it especially witty. I totallyagree up on that, right, yeah,
yeah, I totally did not pickup on that. It was a

(03:04:13):
throwaway line. It was like alittle tiny line. Um, so all
right, so I have a predictionwhich I may which I'm not sure if
you guys are into Oh we're totallyinto it, Denise, But if so,
what do you think of this?Joel gets involved in the mob,
Susie's situation and somehow lands and hotwater which creates a rift between Susie and
Midge. Just a thought. Iagree, Yeah, Denise, I'm liking

(03:04:39):
it. I think I think it. It's hard to think of Midge and
Susie on the outs, but nowI cannot think of how it happens at
the fast forward. Thank you guysagain for having a platform for us Mazie's
I love that to dive deep intothe show. Tit's up and tit's up
to you, Denise. Thank youso ve. Denise. Oh, I

(03:05:00):
love it. Keep it coming,keep that feedback coming. I absolutely loved
it, and very astute viewer.I did not you guys. Are you
guys brought it up? I thinkI had no. You're seeing these things
that could happen with Joel and theMob, and I'm like, oh my
god, you're right, you're right, you're opening yes, and yeah,
she caught the genius line in Manso much so good. All right,

(03:05:22):
carry you take the next one.Okay, So the next bit of feedback
is from Jamie Dimmock, so hopefullyI'm writing this in time. Congratulations you
were Yes? If not, I'msure Episode five was great too. I
loved this episode. I didn't mindthe flash forwards too much, but this
episode flowed better without them. Therewere so many great moments, but my

(03:05:43):
favorite might be the morning after atthe office. So many tiny comical moments.
Also, I think Janus's cake issomething I need in my life.
Seems to work better than melotonin.Definitely seems work better than melotonin. Said,
how did Susie think the mom wasjust going to let her go?
She's more street smart than that.I want to see the college days of

(03:06:07):
Susan so badly. I think weall agree with you on that point for
sure. I love the podcast.I'm sure you all talked about these and
the other brilliant moments. And she'sgot aban rose with multiple exclamation marks in
parentheses. Oh, I hope wetalked about abean rose enough for you,
Jamie. We we didn't get awhole lot of aban rose this episode,

(03:06:30):
but hopefully there's definitely more to come. I mean, there's so I can't
wait to see where this goes.The moments of wet was gold though it
was it was just enough gold.And I just love how there was like
a silent scene with the rose pedalscene. It was so good. Yes,
thank you, Jamie, thank you, keep it coming, Thank you
so much. Okay, I gofor Erica. All right, So next

(03:06:52):
is Jess Jones. I Jess,Oh darn, you're recording right now.
Maybe next week I'll drop a line. I haven't had a chance to watch
any of season five yet. Theshow overall has been very entertaining. Am
It's T shirt and shorts wearing kindand oh, I absolutely love all the
clothing and set pieces on the show. It's so much eye candy. Well
that's okay, Jess. We arerecording right now, and you still got

(03:07:15):
it. We said that exact sentence. I candy this episode especially, and
right back and right back to usonce you start start watching. We'd love
to hear what you think. Yeah, for sure, all right, we
got just one more or two more, two more things? Yeah, I'll
read so the next the next one, yeah, I want you to do

(03:07:35):
the last one So the next oneis from Trina Kanino Schneider and she has
a bunch of hearts. God,I love this show. I don't know
if you mean the podcast because itwas about it was up on a post
about the podcast, so I don'tknow if she means the podcast, but
I mean our podcast is about MissusMaisiel. She probably means the show like
the marvelous Missus Masil, but Ialso like to think that she loves our
show. So thanks. We're hereto please now onto things that are a

(03:08:03):
less a little less lovey dovey.We're gonna end on a We're gonna end
on a nice, positive, happynote here for you. But like I
said, so welcome. We welcomeall feedback of all, We're gonna read
it all. So we did geta iTunes review and it's from Jay Corosa.
I hope I'm saying that right,m and it says the issue with

(03:08:24):
the flash forwards being too real ordark reflects your glossing over the real slash
dark issues with season three and four. You didn't even mention Midge's Apollo set
outing Shy a black man in nineteensixty and the Palladino's tone deaf way of
dealing with it in season four,Midge wanting revenge and even her apology being

(03:08:48):
so clueless. I believe she's aclueless, privileged person, but why am
I supposed to cheer her on?The thing is, I do love the
show warts and all. However,you all not even addressing it in your
season breakdowns before season five explains prettywell why you're having difficulty with the flash
forwards. Doesn't paint Midge in thebest light. I actually appreciate that from

(03:09:13):
the Palladinos, maybe they realize thatblind spot they had in writing in season
three and four. We'll see.And this was a two star review,
and I do want to say acouple of things to address it. From
one, I am sorry if wedidn't make it clear that we weren't doing,
you know, actual breakdowns of Previo. I mean, from what I

(03:09:33):
remember, I explicitly said we're notdoing a breakdown because we don't have time.
So we were really were Yeah,we were saying we intended that little
opening to our first podcast to beour favorite points about the show, just
like highlights for us from the firstfour seasons, and it was breakdown only
positive things. Because I will sayme personally when Midge. I still remember

(03:09:56):
the first time watching that episode ofMidge is set at the Apollo introducing Shy
and getting so like physically uncomfortable andangry, and how she just and then
she seemed upset when there were consequencesfor that. So I will say,
I don't think any of the threeof us would disagree with you, but

(03:10:18):
if we talked about all of theproblematic things from previous seasons, we'd be
here for you know, ten hours. But I do hope that you did
continue to listen and maybe you knowthis episode hit a little bit better for
you. If so, I'd loveto hear you know, more of your
feedback. But we did, andI would also love you to change that

(03:10:41):
rating from A too. Yes,we're a new podcast and you just dragged
us way down. We were ata five and now we're at four point
seven. Not that you know,it's like do what you want to do,
but but it was. I didwant to make it clear like we
definitely did not intend to ignore anyof the problematic things. It's just if
we talked about the previous seasons andactually truly broke them down, we would

(03:11:01):
never stop talking. But like wesaid we do. We're open to all
feedback, but I hope if youdid continue to listen in this change your
mind, that you would definitely considerchanging a review, because you know,
like Jade said, we are anew podcasts and those reviews can really make
or break us. But now I'mcurious how you feel about the flash forwards.

(03:11:22):
I will say I don't dislike theFlash forwards, and I think you
guys would agree with me that it'snot because they Paintage in a bad light.
Like I think that's one of thebest things about her character is that
she's not just you know, aMary Suit type that is perfect and can't
do any wrong. Like obviously she'sprivileged, she's stubborn, she's entitled,

(03:11:43):
but she's also intelligent and witty andstrong as fuck. Really, so they're
going to venture to say, I'mgoing to venture to say that the reason
I mean that it was intentional thatMidge had a tone deaf way of dealing
with the darker issues like he's likethey said on the review, I think

(03:12:03):
that that is. When I've heardAmy Sherman Palladino and Daniel Palladino talking interviews,
they've said like, yeah, wecan make Midge do things that are
so horrendously heinously, horribly egregious becausewe're not on network television anymore, so
we can have a character who's like, really problematic. So I can I

(03:12:24):
agree with you. I think thatMidge did not handle things well at all
in seasons three and four. Istopped I liked her. So that was
my main complaint about the show andthe turn that it took in season three
and four is that, Wow,you've made Midge really unlikable and not completely
but you know, it's the sameway that Lisa said, like, but
god, I still love her,damn it. You know, I don't

(03:12:46):
know how they do it. Imean, same, the same thing kind
of happened with Gilmore girls. Theypretty they acted pretty darn selfish at times,
and a lot of privilege going onthere, you know, a lot
of white lady privilege. And yeah, Midge has that same issue, only
like a whole lot worse. Yeah, And I just want to add,
because oh I was going to justadd really quickly, just back to the

(03:13:09):
shy baalb. One thing is thatI don't think that she really redeemed herself
even with her apology. I doagree with them. No, like she
kind of didn't she. No,she that that episode like bothered me so
much. She came in, shewas like trying to sabotage your wedding,
and then she gave this like kindof like half assed apology and it was
more so just because of the factthat he fired her. So yeah,

(03:13:33):
I don't think she really made amends. I think that she just kind of
like said yes, sorry, andthat was about it. Not realized like
how horrible of a person she wason that stage. She was so selfish
and it was just disgusted. Iwill say that. In addition, we've
talked about the kind of, youknow, sometimes problematic way that the Palladinos

(03:13:54):
have handled homosexuality in the past,and the same can be said with their
handling of race. Yeah, raceissues girls too. There's too many things
to even go into. But withShy, like you know obviously not only
being a gay man in the fiftiesand early sixties, but being a gay

(03:14:18):
black man during that time, likeMidge just clear like all she thought about
was herself and like kind of hurtinghis feelings. It seemed like like she
didn't really truly understand the ramifications ofit, but I honestly, I also
think that's kind of true to hercharacter back in that time, and the

(03:14:41):
fact that you know, she hada problematic response seems pretty accurate and reflects
the time. Unfortunately. But Ido think it's good because it obviously gave
fans of the show a lot totalk about and a lot to dive into,
so we could go on and on. See, this is the reason

(03:15:01):
that we tried not to let ourselvessince you opened this can of worms,
We're going to talk about it.Because that's the thing, Like, there's
not only is every episode of thisshow incredibly dense, but there's four seasons
previous seasons of incredibly dense episodes.We cannot go into all of it,
and when we start to, it'slike, ah, yeah, you know,

(03:15:26):
but hey, I mean, ifyou guys, if you guys don't
like that, if you want usto like shut the fuck up and shorten
it up, I mean, uhno, but no, Well, seriously,
if if you if you do likethe long podcast format, tell us.
If you don't, tell us,and I'm happy to oblige, just
like I hope we are obliging nowby commenting on this iTunes review, like

(03:15:48):
if it's more of the discussion ofhow we felt about those problematic elements,
we'll talk about it. Like aslong as y'all are here sticking around for
your third hour, you know whatis sleep? I'll sleep and I'm dead,
So yes, okay, Well,thank you to all of our amazing
listeners for sending us your feedback positivenegative. We want to hear it,

(03:16:09):
so keep it coming. You knowhow I love it. I've said it
a million times. I love it. If you have feedback to share,
you can send us an email orvoice message at Perfectly Marvelous podcast at gmail
dot com, or you can goto our Facebook page where we will put
up a post every week at facebookdot com slash Podcastica and you can leave
a comment there for us to readon our next episode. And all this

(03:16:33):
information, along with the links toall the articles we mentioned in the news
will be found in the show notes. And as we said at the beginning,
Jade talked about the Podcastica network,and Perfectly Marvelous is a part of
that wonderful network. We cover ahuge variety of shows and films. There
really is something for everyone, andyou can find all of our information and

(03:16:56):
links to all of our shows atpodcastica dot com. One of our most
popular shows right now is Yellow Jackets. I know, Erica, you were
just get the live reaction show.Correct, Yes, yeah, it's it's
it's a lot of fun. Itgets it's a deep dive where we're talking
about ferries and talk about all thedifferent characters and how the timelines are going.

(03:17:18):
It's a lot of fun. There'sthe actual main which is Yellow Jackets
WTF, and then we have likea sister podcast like right after it that
does the live reaction after the viewingon on Sundays. So yeah, you
have lots and lots of stuff orYellow Jackets. If you're a fan,
I will say, if you're notlistening to that podcast or watching that and
you're watching that show, you arereally missing out because every single host brings

(03:17:45):
so many different views and tidbits.I seriously, I was listening to it
this morning, so I can't plugthat one enough. Yeah, yeah,
me too. That's my favorite podcastin the whole wide world because it's such
a good show. It's like sodense. It's probably just as dense as
Missus Masiel, but for totally differentreasons and there's a lot to talk about.
It's really good. Yeah. Nocannibalism here, no different nope.

(03:18:11):
Yeah. So we had a tonof great shows. We got Star Wars
TV cast. We're covering the Mandalorian, the Last of Us? Whoa who
isn't covering the Last of Us?But we cover it the best. Yeah,
so check it out, check itall out, and remember that if
you want us to continue our coverageof the marvelous Missus Mazel, if you're
out there, if you're listening,if you like he, give us those

(03:18:31):
downloads so that we know you arelistening. Just if you got to manually
go in there and just hit downloadon just our podcast, you know,
just do it for us. Justkeep it up there for a little while
you can. You can delete thedownload, you know, just give it
a couple of days. Just letme know that you want us to keep
going. Um, don't don't gettired of it. Yeah yeah right,
that's funny. Yeah. No,Esther would not like this podcast, So

(03:18:54):
yeah, subscribe, share the podcast, leave us a rating and a favorable
review, favorable please, uh,you know, or do you do whatever
you want. You can do whatyou want. So, yeah, wherever
you're listening to the podcast, andyeah, if you can only do one
of those things, we can.I will say we truly will immensely so
grateful. I don't know what I'msaying, Well, what are what are

(03:19:15):
words? We will love you forever? Yes, all right, ladies,
I think that will do it.It's been delightful talking with you as always,
and I thank you, my dear, my dear listeners, thank you
for joining us. Come back nextweek when we'll be covering season five,
episode five of the Marvelous Missus maslthe Pirate Queen, the Pirates Queen or

(03:19:39):
Matie. I'm Kara, I'm America, and I'm Jade. Thank you,
and good night

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