S5E8 "The Princess and the Plea"

Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
Well hey there you, yes,I mean you have you just finished watching
an episode of your favorite television program, The Marvelous Missus Masel. Are you
looking for a podcast to enhance yourviewing experience, Well, look no further.
Welcome to Perfectly Marvelous. Join ourhosts Erica, Kara and Jade as

(00:35):
they provide you with hours of wittiebanter, behind the scenes, fun facts,
and oh so much more. Now, sit back, relax, and
get ready for a perfectly marvelous time. Good evening, folks, Welcome to

(01:03):
the podcast. I'm Jade, I'mKara, and I'm Erica, and this
right here is Perfectly Marvelous, apodcast dedicated to the phenomenal show The Marvelous
Missus Maisl. Today we are coveringseason five, episode eight, The Princess
and the Plea, written by AmySherman Palladino and Daniel Palladino and directed by

(01:25):
Daniel Palladino. Who all right,So, first of all, we have
an exciting announcement for you listeners.We are going to announce the mysterious interview
guest that we have lined up forafter the finale. It is Matilda Zidigius

(01:45):
Zelda da will be our special interview. I'm working on getting possibly getting another
couple of interviews. I've sent outsome stuff and hopefully we'll hear back.
But if you know, if Ican't get anybody else, at least we
have Elda and I actually I knowwe have a friend in common. Yeah,
oh my god, it's gonna begreat. Yeah, even before I

(02:06):
met her, we had she hadagreed to do this interview because we have
an actor friend in common. Myfriend Amy did a short film with her.
And so yeah, I'm really excited. So which want to say,
listeners, when you leave your feedbacknext week, if you have any questions
that you would like us to askMatilda, just let us know and we
will ask her for you. Soget excited. I'm really excited. Oh,

(02:29):
there are so many there are somany things I know. I can't
worry, I am, I know, Oh my god, especially after last
week's episode. Yeah, yeah,right, and like the wedding, Oh
my gosh. And now I'm justthinking about all the other Zelda moments.
I was keeping track of all ofthe Zelda moments when I did my rewatch
before we started podcasting season five,because I knew that, you know,

(02:52):
I that we had reached out toher, and she said, yes,
I'll do it after every all theepisodes come out, and so I was
like taking notes on all these Zeldamoments that I want to ask you are
about. So so yeah, listeners, if you are, you know,
rewatching any episodes, or if youwant to go back and like find some
good Zelda moments to rewatch and justlike ask her specific questions about anything that

(03:13):
she's done on the show. I'mcertainly excited to do that. So yeah,
that's coming up, and that'll beout. That'll be like a separate
episode after we podcast on the finale. So before we get started with this
penultimate episode, we have a coupleof shreomless plugs. I realized that in
all of our shameless plugging of otherPodcastica shows, I haven't mentioned the other

(03:38):
shows that I have already done onpodcast Cut. So I will tell you,
listeners, if you have not watchedthe show Dead to Me or poker
Face, Oh my goodness. Firstof all, I'm jealous of you if
you haven't watched those shows, becauseboy what I love to be a person
who had never seen those shows.And you know, so I could go

(03:59):
back and watch them for the firsttime, like whenever you're ready. Guys,
if you've never seen Dead to Meor poker Face, there is like
a gift waiting for you. There'sa Christmas present waiting for you dn Raths.
Go and enjoy those shows, andthen enjoy the podcasts that I was
on. They're called Dead to Us. It's are Dead to Me podcast,
and Murder Magnets is our poker Facepodcast. And you know they're not too

(04:20):
darn bad. If I do sayso, Missale, those were great ones.
I will say, Eric and Iboth also guested on Murder magn Yet
I also like that show was somuch fun to cover. I am jealous
of people that have not seen pokerFace and Dead to Me. Say that
is just a prime TV viewing andyes, enjoy. Okay, So we

(04:44):
also have a couple of other thingshappening as always at Podcastica. Obviously Yellow
Jackets come into the end. It'sdramatic, it's intense, it's emotional.
If you have not gotten in onthe drama, get in on it,
guys. It's not too late.So if you're not watching Yellow Jackets,
what are you doing? Watch thatshow after you watch Missus Mazel Actually maybe

(05:06):
maybe yeah, missus yellow Jackets,although Missus Mazel is getting intense, So
I don't know how much of ahow much of a palate cleanser, but
it is certainly a different vibe.Yes, But yeah, So we got
Yellow Jackets podcast called Yellow Jackets WTF, and we also do really cool thingum
with that podcast on YouTube. There'slike after shows, so other hosts that

(05:30):
aren't a part of the actual podcast, um come on and you can see
their beautiful faces on YouTube and theyjust kind of recap, go over,
you know, highlighted moments and justbecause there's so much to cover with this
dense, amazing show that like wehave to have more than you know,
more than one just a podcast tocover it. So that's something else.
And then we are covering some othershows. I'm just going to go through,

(05:54):
like from the show from our podcast. Yeah, our podcast is called
is from Cast and right now they'recovering season two of from and they have
a ton of interviews. They're interviewingall the actors. They just interviewed Sean
Mahamder I think that's how you pronouncehis name, Ricky he Avery, Conrad,
Phoebe, Rex they're all stars ofthat show. So check out what

(06:17):
is from cast And we have anotherpodcast called The Cast of Us, which
is a Last of Us and Fearthe walking Dead podcast, And Jason and
Randy just covered The Guardians of theGalaxy Volume three on that one, and
soon they're going to be wrapping uptheir coverage of season one of The Power,
another amazing Amazon show that I justfound out about, and I'm really

(06:39):
excited to go to maybe maybe checkthat show out because doesn't look like it
might. It doesn't look like itwould be my thing. I always say
that, but it looks, itlooks. It's just that trailer was really,
really, really interesting. So yeah, check out The Power. And
they're now into season eight the fI know a season of far The Walking

(07:01):
Dead, which is that's a bigdeal. There are some die hard Walking
Dead fans, so I don't knowhow many MASL fans will also be fans
of The Walking Dead because it's quitea different thing. But if you're a
fan of that show, we gotthat podcast And was there another one,
Kara that you wanted to mention?Oh, I was going to say that

(07:21):
right now. If you're a Patreonmember of Patron of Podcastica. They're doing
the Fear the Walking Dead round tablerants because if you do watch Walking Dead,
you know, all three of usare Walking Dead viewers and also love
missus Mazel, but Bear the WalkingDead has kind of taken an interesting,

(07:43):
terrible turn the past level of seasons. So I'm going to be doing the
roundtable rant for the most recent episodecoming up. Like Maia series, yes,
like there, I will say,likery. I find them very entertaining.
So if you're interested in, youknow, going and joining Patreon for

(08:03):
a podcast, you can access those. And then there are so many other
good rewatch podcasts going on right nowand strange indeed, I know Jay,
you were going to talk about thatone too, Yeah yeah yeah. Sweet
Tooth they're getting into the season twocoverage is like rocking you guys. It
is great and if you have notchecked out Sweet Tooth, seriously do it.

(08:24):
It is like such a sneaky greatshow, like unexpectedly amazing and delightful
it is, and right it's andlistening to Rima and Pake cover it,
I mean cover anything. As I'vesaid before, they're just they're my favorites.
I love those two so very much. And you guys will too.
And another podcast at Pake is alsoon with Daphne is my Brain just started?

(08:50):
For your Life? Thank you.I don't know if I've ever anybody
say it, though, way funny. I love you, Jane. Yes,
uh, run for your Lives.Duh. It's an excellent podcast about

(09:13):
monster movies and like um date ofus, Yeah, the disaster movies.
Yes, Jesus my brain. Wedid this amazing rewatch of all the Trevor's
films that was like awesome, thatwas amazing. So yes, and he
does awesome and the next ones withPike and Daphnee. And Daphne's also on
Yellow Jackets WTF. So if youlike guests the hosts on one podcast,

(09:39):
you can hear them on another.Yeah, well we have some. I
love our hosts, I mean Ilove our listeners. I love our hosts.
Just such a fucking love fest overhere. Oh it's grand. And
in addition to all of that,we are definitely coming at you with only
murders in the building. And we'vedecided we're going to recap by doing one
episode for season in one and oneepisode for season two, and then we

(10:01):
will get into our coverage of thethird season in August. The release date
is August eighth, so you couldexpect that coming up, and we will
definitely be setting out announcements and everythingon this podcast feed. So don't you
worry. Just stay subscribed and youwill not miss a darn thing, Darlin.
We will make sure of that.So yeah, and if you guys

(10:22):
don't have Hulu or Disney Plus,there's like a bundle subscription thing going on.
Not sponsored, but I will sayI highly suggest you look into getting
a subscription right now because they're offeringa lower price subscription of ten dollars for
Hulu and Disney Plus bundle. It'skind of an amazing deal. Why would
you not do it? And fortwelve dollars you also get ESPN. That
doesn't interest me, but it mightinterest you. So I will have the

(10:46):
link to that as well in thedescription of this podcast to make it a
nice and easy for you. BecauseI love you. I love you so
much listeners. Now, I thinkthat's all we have at the top here,
So without further ado, let's getinto the show. Ready for it?
Oh? Yeah, tits up,baby, Tit's up, It's up.

(11:09):
Cry, I've this bucky maveless girlin my pot room and when living
together and having a mama. Letsalright, goodness, goodness, migracious.
So this is interesting. Now,before we started podcasting, the three of

(11:30):
us realized that we all forgot topick a most marvelous moment. Yes,
but isn't that marveless? And Iknow that. Okay, I'm very proud
of the fact that I resisted readingalmost all feedback this episode because I wanted
to try to try to just takeall my notes without any outside input or

(11:56):
you know, I didn't want tolike make my my make my brain think
one way or the other. Ijust wanted to feel the way that I
feel, and like podcast that way. Because there's so many hot takes out
there right now, so many peoplehave There's no one feels middle of the
road about this show right now.People are either loving the direction it's taken
or they are like kind of hatingon it. And I think that we
actually might be the only ones verymiddle of the road because or well no,

(12:20):
I mean, let's face it,we all pretty much just love it.
Last week. Last week we hadyou know, we had some hot
takes. I don't think we're alone. So yeah, So but I did
notice that another one of our listeners. I was like just scrolling through the
emails and I did see someone said, we'll get to it when we get

(12:41):
to the listener feedback. Someone said, I don't really have a most marvelous
moment for this episode, So there'sat least one other person out there who
felt that same way. And it'snot like there wasn't so many marvelous moments,
but not one. I get.Maybe it's because there wasn't like a
big funny yeah like laugh out,like you know, yeah it was this

(13:03):
this episode saying yeah, yeah,Well, Kara was saying that you you
texted like after you started watching it, and you were like, and I'm
crying again. Ye Now. Idid not cry. And I'm a crier.
I'm an emotional pisces. You know, Erica, you feel me on
this yea um. I cry likewhen I'm happy, when I'm sad,

(13:24):
when I'm when I'm getting a coffee, I cry, you know, just
tears are my way. But thisepisode didn't make me cry. My mouth
was just a gape and I wasglued to the screen. That's how I
felt about it. I was onthe edge of my seat. That's how
this was for me. That makessense with that freaking cliffhanger too. Yeah,

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yeah, yeah. It almost feltlike this was like a bit of
a mystery episode. You know,I was like little detective like little Nancy
Drew Jade, which I which Ilove. You know, everyone anyone who
has listened to me podcast knows Ilove me a mystery. So yeah,
but we did finally settle on somemarvelous moments, so Erica take it away.

(14:09):
Okay. So I although I hada few moments that really and again
carry you said it perfectly like reflectedon. I felt extremely sentimental this entire
episode. But the moment that reallystuck with me the most was when Midge
confronted Susie and Penn Station and justsaid, this is it, Susie.
If you don't I will always knowthat there was something you could have done

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and you didn't, and honestly,I don't know where to go from here,
and then just leaves. It wasjust so raw. It was just
so like, it's where we're at, and it's Susie had to make that
choice right there and then and andMidge did too, and that's where we're
at. And I'm like, it'slike okay, even though like a lot

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of people are like upset because there'ssome things that haven't been like, you
know, we haven't seen Lenny,we didn't get to see Image. There's
a lot of loose ends, andwe're not going to get this like two
hour finale. We're going to geta you know, probably a fifteen minute
finale. But ultimately the show isabout Susie and Midge in their relationship and
how Susie helps propel Mitch. Wellthis is we're at that crossroads right now

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and Susie has to make a decision. That was a really intense moment.
Yeah. I was very happy tosee that moment for sure, and I
was happy. I'm just always happyto see more Midge and Susie together.
Definitely, Yeah, yeah, definitely, Tera, what was your gosh?
I think? I mean, Ihave to go with abe an Abe's speech

(15:43):
at dinner and his realization about Midge, Like that is what made me cry,
like babe, like I was justkind of losing it. I think
part of it too is I mightcry again. Good lord, oh,
I know, like and I'm notI do not cry very easily, but

(16:06):
I can't. I couldn't help butthinking about think about my dad and oh
geez, I did not expect toget all emissionals at home. This this
hit home for you. Well,yeah, I can see that. And
it was one of those things whereit wasn't you know, my dad is
my dad is not Abe? Mydad was probably the best dad I think

(16:30):
anybody could have asked for. AndI am She's now, I'm good,
Okay, I can do it.But he like I always heard growing up
how proud he was of me andhow you know, how strong I was
and how smart I was and howI could do whatever I wanted to be
and hearing Abe just now have thisrealization about how, you know, Midge's

(16:55):
husband left her out of nowhere,and he was like, you know,
her husband just m out of nowhere. And he goes on to talk about
her fearlessness and acknowledging that he neverhad it and his son never had it,
and finally settling down and saying,my daughter is a remarkable person.
And I don't think I've ever saidthat to her. I just lost it.

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I was just like, that makesme so sad. And Abe is
just now realizing this when his daughteris, you know, in her thirties
and a grown woman, and itjust, I don't know, it made
me kind of sad for Midge thatshe hadn't experienced that. And at least
now he sees obviously how Esther isbrilliant, and it's like his whole world

(17:45):
has changed. What did he say? I think he said at one point,
now I have to find it thatit's his whole perspective on women is
different. And I was like,yeah, abeles like the roles of men
and women. Yeah, so likecompletely wrong, Yeah, yeah, excuse
that men and women have their ownperspectives and that. Yeah. Yeah,

(18:07):
like it just but I don't know, hearing him talk about her in that
way, like we do not getany sort of real raw emotion from Abe
frequently at all, and having himhave this like existential epiphany at the dinner
table and then immediately once he's done, everybody just kind of looks and he's
like, wow, I should probablyorder and like like writes it off.

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I was just like, oh,Abe, like I hear you. That
was fantastic, And Tony Shalhoub justlike completely drew me in, Like I
honestly felt like I was sitting acrossfrom him at that dinner table. If
this man does not get an Emmyfor this, seriously, I will I
shall eat this microphone. I swearto God, I all is lost if

(18:57):
he doesn't win an Emmy for thatship. Yeah, he did an absolutely
fantastic job, and like you know, I'm sure every like I don't know.
I know some people were complaining aboutit. I saw online about how
it was just like a distraction andtoo long and this and that. But
I don't know if I've ever feltmore moved watching this show. Worried I

(19:21):
agree even that whole discussion, evenwith um. I don't remember the other
gentleman's theme, the one who Henryor the one who shared the story about
his wife and and realizing all that. Like that, that scene was the
second watch I really stopped unless itwas so quiet and everything was just so

(19:41):
dim, like all you could dowas just focus in on the actor and
listen to what they were telling you, this monologue of their realization of their
their lives and their meaning and whatthey took out of it. It was.
It was wonderful. Okay, guys, I think that we should flip
the script a little bit. I'mjust throwing a monkey wrench in there like
as always, I know that abanRose is in our on our agenda as

(20:02):
the last thing we were going todiscuss. I feel like we should just
roll right into it because my mostmarvelous moment will shock nobody when I say,
um, it was aban Rose observingesther the candy in the book that
was so funny. So okay,screw it, let's just talk about this,
because honestly, I couldn't even picka most marvelous moment within this scene

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between everyone. You know how muchI love my Marin Hankle, and she
didn't have a huge, bunched wholelot to do in this episode, but
her chemistry with Tony Shaloub is justI could watch these two do anything.
I mean, watch an interview withthem. Listeners. I have a playlist

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of tons of um it'll be inthe in the news or in the yeah,
in the description of this podcast.Um. I have a YouTube playlist.
And there are so many interviews withjust the two of them talking and
you know, talking about their experienceon this show and working together, and
they're the way that they just likelean on each other in each other's hands
and there these two love each otherso much. They are like soulmates on
another level, you know, likethey obviously both have spouses and they're in

(21:10):
love with other people, you know, but the way that they get each
other as actors, like they areactor married. And I've experienced this,
I know when I was in aplay where I had to have a spouse
and me and this other actor reallybonded and he's literally in my phone in
my contact as like husband because yeah, we just and like I love him

(21:32):
in that way as an as thecharacter like in that you know, sometimes
the lines like blur when you're anactor and you just can't help but really
actually fall in love with someone eventhough you're not like wanting to actually love
you know what I mean, it'snot a romantic thing. And realize I'm
trying to I'm trying to express somethingthat like only if you're an actor you
get what I'm saying. But clearlythey have that kind of chemistry that is

(21:52):
just such a delight to watch.And so the two of them whispering about
what is it that they what's thebook? It? Sartre's being in nothing
else? Are their pictures in beingand nothingness? No, there are no
pictures. Then you should probably putsome candy in the book. Even one
piece could make a difference, Likethat was really good. I got Rose's

(22:15):
reaction to hard candy. That's her. But you know why I don't.
I don't want to feed her candy. Rose. But you know what I
was just going to say, likeRose under sandsaster, she knows that she
likes candy, and she using thatkind of grandmotherly way of getting into that
approach to get her attention that Ithought was so cute. It was so
cute. Yeah, and then ultimatelycoming to the conclusion that it's like it

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shows her brilliance. Whether she goesto the book or doesn't go to the
book. Sorry, I got tothe book would indicate advanced mental faculties,
and not going to the book wouldalso indicate mental advanced men. And I
love the fact that it's Rose thatpoints out that that. Well, he

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says, even I'm no one getsbeing nothing does. Even Sarcher doesn't understand
it. I mean, even I'mjust pretending to read the book. Pretending
to read the book, well,yes, for the experiment. Well,
if she suspects you're pretending to readthe book, then she might not go
to the book. Just because sheknows that you're trying to trick her.
You know. It's like Rose,You're so smart, smart, enjoyable.

(23:23):
And then as Esther is playing thislittle this little girl, which I have
to say, um, so yes, this little girl is actually for some
reason on IMDb it's only listed asIreland, but it is all. This
little girl is played by two sisters, Ireland and and Sedona Carva Hall.
Very cool names that they both have. I love that. And she is

(23:48):
playing with this dolly and like towardthe end of the scene you can hear
it when she goes, oh,Dolly wet herself and then she goes,
oh dumb dolly, Like I wrotethat down too. It's so funny,
just so real. Oh man,I would kill to like watch um whatever
whoever the person hired to work withthe children is on this show, because

(24:11):
they do such a good job,there's got to be someone just like right
down in front of her, likeplaying with her, you know, kind
of getting her to I don't knowshe was prompted to say those exact lines.
Probably not. She probably came upwith, you know, just talking
to the dolly like Dolly wet herself. So um, all right, so
this, yeah, this whole abescene at you know, with um at

(24:37):
the restaurant. Did you guys hearthat Nancy the song was playing in the
background very faintly? Oh I didn't. Did you catch that? Yeah?
I swear it was Nancy Sinatra.And I only heard that on my second
watch after because after I watched thisepisode, I went right back and watched

(25:00):
episode seven, and so I watchedand I watched that ending, and I
made myself really watch it, andI let me tell you, I watched
episode seven. I saw episode sevenwith such different eyes after this, after
watching this one so much about thefather daughter stuff. WHOA. I highly
suggest listeners if you have only watchedthese episodes one time, seriously, try

(25:25):
going back and watching seven in gostraight into eight. Man. I really
thought that it hit in a differentway, you know, And I almost
want to take back a lot ofmy criticism, not all, A lot
of it still holds, but somebecause I kind of see what they were
doing with episode seven. I seethe scene with Danny Stephens singing Nancy,

(25:47):
Now Nancy with the laughing face,you know, I see that so differently
now after watching this episode, becauseI really think that Amy Sherman Palladino not
only wanted to do a black andwhite sitcom, but I really think that
she wanted to make us sit withthat song and it's sentiment for a long
time, to put into our mindsthat Abe is singing to Miriam. This
is if you watch that whole DannyStevens ending and you imagine Abe saying it

(26:12):
all every word. Close your eyesand listen to his words. You know,
as he's saying, your name isSkippy, your mother name. They
do know you're not a dog,right, and like he's saying it in
such a this is a fifty sitor sixty sitcom kind of way, but
imagine Abe saying it, right,your mother named you Skippy? What you

(26:34):
know you're not a dog? Youknow, like Abe would say it differently
in this Abe way, but it'sall exactly things that Abe would say.
And remember he's like, we haveto have a conversation about this, and
then he says something He's like,that's it. Conversation, actually, you
know what that was? It?Conversation is over, you know, that's
actually it's funny when Danny Stevens doesit in this like ha ha laugh track
from the audience, you know kindof way. But if Abe would actually

(26:56):
think that that's that's how feels myword is law, right, I am
God, I'm the king of thecastle, you know. And it's so
not funny when you imagine all ofthose lines that Danny Stephens says coming out
of Abe's mouth. It is actuallyquite sad, right, And I mean,

(27:17):
I don't think it's a coincidence atall that we had that parenting theme
throughout the last episode right before movingin to this one. Like it was,
it was nicely set up, andyou're right, like going back.
I didn't get to watch all ofepisode seven again before going right into it,
but I watched the second half andI started crying this time when Yeah,

(27:40):
I watched the end with Danny Stephensand I was just like, oh,
okay, see what you're doing,Paladine. Yeah, so different.
And he it's all coming out likewhen he sits down at that piano after
he you know, is trying tocramp his daughter's style and tell her you
can't go out be home by eighto'clock or you know, he's just being

(28:02):
unreasonable, and then he sits downat that piano and he starts singing,
I just love listening to your laughwhen I don't hear your voice every day,
like when you know, I getsad, or he is talking about
losing a daughter and or realizing thateverything that he's doing, even though it's
super overbearing and overprotective and smothering,it's just because he loves his daughter and

(28:22):
just wants her to be happy.And that is really what Abe does want,
you know. And he's so setin his ways, Abe, you
know. And there's there's this hugeparenting theme obviously of this whole show,
really, but this final season isreally a lot about the parents, the
parent children dynamic and how things Imean this this episode is really a lot

(28:47):
about change and realizing that things havekind of always been this way. But
maybe obviously you're the one who's changed. And like Rose has changed because she,
Okay, Rose, in my opinion, like sees her children as her
job, like not in a nurturingmotherly way, but like a controlling way,

(29:07):
right, And when Miriam doesn't,When when Miriam doesn't allow Rose to
influence her life or make decisions forher, she kind of turns to strangers
and creates a business of motherly meddling. You know, Surely is a bit
different still kind of totally smothering andmetally, but she sees her family unit
as her job. It's like upto her to feed them and nurture them

(29:30):
and keep them comfortable and fed whilethey they do the work. She's there
to keep house, nurse them whenthey're sick, kiss the boo boos,
be their soft place to fall.You know, two totally different ways of
mothering, but both equally smothering andequally like invasive. And you know,
Surely reminds me a lot of myMomsy in that way, like I can
always count on her for like acuddle and they're there and she'll pat me

(29:52):
on the back and sing me tosleep, and you know, and Rose,
Rose would never be nurturing in thatway. But everything Rose an A
do it is because they just thinkthat they know what's best, that's all.
You know. They're old fashioned.But like I was saying last episode,
Rose, it's like it's not acrime to do stuff like that.

(30:12):
When if you're not hurting anybody,then fine. If you're a little bit
old fashioned, if you're a littlebit you know, set in your ways.
But when Rose does start to getto the point where she's not selfish,
you know, she's she refuses tohelp Miriam with the children, or
you know, it's all about her. It's Oh, I don't know.

(30:34):
It's just I don't really know thewhere where any of this leads because we
don't know what's going to happen withRose. But but it's hard to see
that because I feel we can probablyall relate to it, you know,
I don't know. I just wantedto add, like you brought up the
smothering, and I don't have thenames of aped co workers, but the

(30:55):
ones the one gentleman brought up aboutthe fact that he said that like he
his son said like, Dad,you're smothering me. And he's like,
no, I'm guiding you. Andnow my son moved away and he doesn't
talk to me anymore, and andhe just like stopped. And you know,
Karl, when you're saying I think, I don't know if it was
your Karay who said like or whenthey decided to just kind of segue out

(31:18):
of that uncomfortable silence and to that, I almost wonder if they were also
reflecting about their own mess ups asparents or or what they've done, because
they're all kind of like except forum again, I'm so sorry the league
guy the Boss Game. Yeah,gave the head of the newspaper. He's
the only one who really felt likehe seemed like he was very uncomfortable with

(31:41):
the conversation and tried to steering itaway. But everybody else kind of like
was like oh yeah, oh shit, oh yeah, like looked really down
at the very end. I mean, how do you respond to that?
Like that's like that was a hesaid and revealed so much and just that

(32:01):
one brief. I thought it wasbrief. Some people dinner, Yes,
I don't. I don't think that. I don't think they're listing it is.
It is. It is a twominute and thirty second speech and listeners.
If you thought it was too long, if you thought it was unnecessary,
well then you're going to have tofast forward right now two minutes second

(32:22):
because I'm playing it again. Sohere you go. Have the tissue.
Enjoy. We teach, yes,but we fished. I certainly do.
I think I emerge from my mother'swomb giving advice on how to deal with
your political cord. I'm adding oneof you a moment, so I think
I'm seeing the piles of my lifeif foreign to me. This is about

(32:45):
your families, right, You're tryingto help, you, trying to guide.
Mistakes were made. Everybody makes mistakes. I don't like this wine.
Everything I thought about the roles ofmen and women I think is completely wrong.
I have done exactly the wrong thingfor both my children. No,
it's not true. You know mydaughter owns the apartment I'm living in.

(33:07):
I thought you bought it, didn'tyou say that? My wife came up
with that our cover story. Nowmy daughter bought it. My daughter.
My daughter was dumped by her husbandout of nowhere. That was her savor
tooth. Then, instead of collapsingfrom the weight, she emerged stronger,

(33:28):
a new person, so I thought. But now I think perhaps that was
who she was all along. Inever really took her seriously. My son,
Noah, I took seriously. Iwould take him to Columbia with me
every week so he could dream ofwhat he could be. I don't remember

(33:55):
if I ever did that to Miriam. I don't think it ever occurred to
me. And as unfathomable as thiscareer choice of hers is, she's doing
it on her own, with nohelp from me or her mother? Where
did this come from the strength,this fearlessness that I never had, but

(34:22):
my poor son never had. Whatcould she have been defied? Had helped
her and not ignored her, ignoredwho she really is. My daughter is
a remarkable person, and I don'tthink I've ever said that to her.

(34:47):
Oh God, oh man. Okay, so there are people carry you.
Okay, I'm fine, It's allfine, that's fine, that's fine.
Nothing is he here. So peoplewere complaining that about Gabe's I mean,
about Abe's character arc, and Iwas starting to question it myself after seeing

(35:07):
this episode. I really it hitme like a ton of bricks. I
really think that they did a beautifuljob of starting with the Paris changes that
Aimee was going through leading his characterup to this moment. He's had series,
a series of unfolding, mental undoing, whatever, you know. His

(35:28):
world has been rocked over and overagain, and I think that he's we've
seen Abe. What he's trying todo is hold fast to his beliefs.
I mean, it's crazy to thinkwhen they said that these men were born
in the eighteenth the right, veryvery late nineteenth century, turn of the
century. So he was born innineteen eighteen ninety seven. If he's sixty

(35:50):
four in nineteen sixty one, soeighteen ninety seven then gives you a different
perspective. It's crazy. When theysaid that, I'm like, god,
damn, you're right, yeah,wild. So I think that especially like
Harris Abe, right, if youremember, Abe was the one who shook
them out of the dream of Paris, even when he was in that world

(36:12):
of happiness with Rose. Because evenin his happiness, he realizes that they
we don't live here this. Ithink that Abe's in Abe's mind, He's
allowed to let loose and be onhis vacation. I do not think that
that moment really shook him changed himto the core. Yeah, because because
you know, we see him laterlike apologize. He's he's remembering hints of

(36:36):
what he learned, but it's notcompletely the trans the transition has not completely
taken place yet. I think thathe still in those Paris moments, in
those cafes talking about like van Go, those you know geniuses who were you
know, you know, revering theseguys who like were miserable and hacked off
their ear. But boy was hea genius. You know, you know,

(36:57):
I think that he did even andstill think that truly intelligent people are
not happy. They're crazy, they'reinsane, they're they're not well, you
know, and that's the sign.I have a sticker that says sanity is
the sign of an unused mind.I've had I've had it for so like
since I was in high school.And yeah, I think that there's an

(37:19):
ounce of truth to that. Ithink all genius is a little bit mad.
But or they will become they willbecome unhappy. And I think that
for the first time, he seesthat unhappiness is not okay. Yeah,

(37:39):
it's not right to meddle. Yeah, you know, like he says,
both Abe and Miriam are paralleled inthis episode because they're both realizing that they
don't sync up with their lives anymore. They don't sync up with their the
environment that they're supposed to sync upwith. Like Abe is this professor and
he sees now on you know,Gabe is like, no, it's natural

(38:00):
to You're a teacher, you know, it's natural. You're you're not meddling,
You're teaching, that's what it is. And he's like, no,
I'm foisting. Yeah. I andMiriam when she's with her friends, you
know, she sees how out oftouch they are with one another. She's
she's not this person anymore. Shekeeps getting these hits of reality in this

(38:20):
episode, you know, and Idon't. And Abe, Yeah, Abe's
world is rocking. He doesn't believethat only men can be geniuses. He
doesn't, you know, because awas so stuck in his ways. He
was last episode A toilet is white, not good and you know, boys
are geniuses. Toilets are white.This is just the universal truths and they
are not going to change. Thingsare the way they are. He's so

(38:44):
stuck in, stick in the mud, you know. And yeah, to
see him his literal world has beenshook, like and he says too when
Gabe, you know, he's quietand everybody else is chatting, and Gabe
kind of is like, you know, going on with you over there,
and he says, it's just thewhole goddamn world. And I can't remember

(39:06):
who responds, is Bit's Gabor somebodyelse that says, oh, just that,
you know. But Abe is havinglike this shift and at first when
it, when he walked in,I was just like, what the hell
is this mood? Like, whatis wrong with him? What's happening?
Like, what's going on? Andthen as soon as he started talking,

(39:27):
I was just like, oh mygosh, he's like having this epiphany and
clearly it seems like he is regretting, clearly like the choices that he made.
And how you know, the thingthat's really started to stand out for

(39:49):
me is when he said, youknow, instead of collapsing from the weight,
she emerged stronger and said a newperson. So I thought, but
now I think perhaps the it's whoshe was all along and going into never
taking her seriously Like that honestly justkind of broke my heart because you can
see him sitting there being like almostlike what have I done? Yeah,

(40:13):
Like and you know what a timewhen his kids are already grown, Like
that's that's rough, Like that's arough epiphany to have and to go from
last last week's Abe thinking, youknow, he almost saw unhappiness as a
badge of honor or a rite ofpassage, like it's not only you know,

(40:37):
Abe's mindset is that genius is agift. Yeah, it is.
Genius is a gift signified by unhappiness. That is how you know, Ah,
when the unhappiness kicks in. Thegenius has started not only inevitable,
but desirable as a way of lifefor men and his family. And you
know, Noah says, like,maybe he's a late bloomer dad. Maybe
he'll get he'll get miserable later.Yeah, don't worry a few, yeah,

(41:00):
a few wifemen. Men. Itdidn't kick in until age seven,
right, don't worry, he'll getunhappy soon, you know. And I
think Abe realizes that, yeah,like there are other ways to be women
or women. It's a paradigm shift, Like he is experiencing a full blown
paradigm shift. And this started.This started when he first saw Miriam on

(41:22):
stage. Yeah, and the catskillslike the she he came to the it
was the Polynesian Night, Remember whenhe was sitting in that in that outfit,
that hat. I don't think I'llhave that one now. Yeah.
Yeah, he and he drove Midgeand Susie home, and you know,
he realizes that he doesn't know hisown daughter. You know, he saw
her blue set, you know too, so it was like talking about his

(41:45):
father's her father's penis having sex withhis mind, so she didn't have to
think. Yeah, and it's it'sbeen slowly like unfolding and kind of brewing
beneath the surface with Abe, youknow, and Kara you brought up how
shocking it was that the whole familylike bought into Abe's mindset of this you

(42:07):
know, genius gift thing, thiswhole almost superstition that it has, you
know, So it's not just Abe. And honestly, you guys, like
I don't think that it's an accidentthat a lot of comedians, the list
of Jewish comedians is not short,yeah, you know, yeah, yeah,
Certainly the stereotype of the miserable,neurotic Jew has been made abundant stereotype,

(42:34):
you know, like Woody Allen,Lord knows, if you've seen one
of his films, you know,it's so. And I don't know that
it's an accident. Certainly, fromwhat I can gather from my Jewish friends,
this has like at least a kernelof truth, you know. So
so yeah too, if you reallyexamine that, I think that it might
run deeper. And I would yetbe very interested for any of our Jewish
listeners to reach out and tell usabout how true that is for you,

(42:57):
this whole unhappiness thing, I hopewe get to see him. I hope
he says something to Midge, andI have a feeling we probably won't see
that. I think this was forus to understand his character shift, in
his paradigm shift. I don't knowif we're going to get a moment where
he's, you know, pouring hisheart out to Midge or something like that,

(43:20):
because I think he still has areally hard time obviously expressing his emotions
and identifying him. But I kindof wish we could see that. I
would not be sad if we gota moment or at least him like maybe
standing off in the distance watching herat Carnegie Hall, like be hauled out
by police officers and standing there proud. I want to just add, you

(43:44):
know what, do you think itwas the wine that kind of helped that
these emotions come out a little bitmore free. Remember he didn't want to
drink it first, and I couldsee us kind of force that. But
also he admitted that the cover storythat rose came up about the apartment,
Like, he admitted what his daughterdid and that's not his house, it's

(44:05):
her. It's it's her house thatshe purchased on his own. And I
mean to admit that to your colleaguesin this in the early sixties. It's
right, you know, it's thatwas pretty big. I mean, yeah,
that's it. That's major confessional.But also just the that was huge,
you know, the how exposed hewas making himself, like how vulnerable

(44:27):
he was and just kind of likeadmitting his regret was it was really you
know, it was really sad andbut also refreshing for him to have that
moment. Yeah. And and Ithink that Arthur played that that other guy
at the at the dinner table playedby Kenneth Tegar. Beautiful speech that man

(44:47):
did. What a moment that was. That really where it was where I
started to lean in close to thesame. My eyes got really big when
he started that speech about you know, they're all grappling with their their their
mortality and this very relatable speech thatyou know, I'm a youngish person and
I still I still understood what hewas talking about. All the stuff,

(45:07):
all the piles of stuff, andit has it has his life, it's
his wife. But he saw itall like he had never seen it before.
God, what a beautiful piece ofwriting, mister Daniel Palladino. It
was I just want to say there'sthere's a clear winner here in my opinion,
in this writing duo between husband andwife. I really do have a

(45:28):
major preference. When you look backat all the episodes that that Daniel Palladino
has written, I really enjoy hiswriting. He's got a way he always
finds. He hits you right inthe in the the gut, in the
heart. Just wow, whack,you know, knocked the wind out of
me. I wasn't expecting it.Very relatable you could pull from that.

(45:49):
I mean, you know, I'veI've already been through that with my grandparents.
It's it's it's very tough to bethe children. I have to go
through things and decide what's to keepand what's something you don't need anymore.
But it's, yeah, it wasyou experienced that, Erica, Yeah,
definitely, and it's it's not somethingI would like anybody to experience, but

(46:09):
it's something you think about. Andeven you know, I'm in my forties,
so my parents are in nearer seventies, so they're they're definitely going up
there in age, and you're alwaysthinking about, you know, when you're
going to have to have that timewhere you have to think about what to
do when everything is different and they'regone, okay, yeah, yeah,

(46:31):
yeah, sorry, now I wouldcry. I'm glad. I'm glad we
got this one out of the way. First, you know, I was
like, this has been happening everynow. Then I keep telling my parents.
I was like, you guys arejust not allowed to die. Okay,
you have to stay here forever becauseI don't want to think about it.
I tell my dogs the same thing, like, we're just it's not

(46:52):
going to happen. I'm gonna loseit. And if we see abe or
Rows and what actually happens to themin the finale, I no, okay,
so this is so getting into Ohbefore I forget, I just want
to call out Henry, the otherguy played by Richard Breen. He's done
a bunch of other stuff with umAmy Sherman Palladino and Daniel Palladino, and
I really enjoyed these two men,Richard Breen and Kenneth Tgar The Richard Breen

(47:16):
is the one who was talking abouthis son leaving because he smothered him.
Both of them, they did anexcellent job, Okay, getting getting into
um the way, I actually think, oh yeah, Okay, so last
episode he was treating a chill.I just wanted to say, last episode
he was treating children like objects,like not people. And the same thing

(47:39):
with the beginning of this episode whenwe saw that scene with Esther, he
was, you know, only interestedin children as an extension of himself,
not their own people with their ownunique talents that have nothing to do with
him, you know. And likebefore last episode when he was at the
piano with Ethan, you know,and he was like, I'm busy with
the boy, like he doesn't evenknow his name, he has no there's

(48:01):
nothing more that he can get.Yeah, there's no love for this child,
you know, it's just I want. I need to teach him piano
so that I can bring the geniusout of him already, Like this is
my duty and I have to doit because children are like with Rose seeing
the mothers, seeing children as liketheir job. Same thing, like children

(48:22):
are an obligation, They're an extensionof me. They're there to show a
part of me to the world thatwill live on. And so surely there's
going to be something wrong with youif you don't believe what I believe,
if you don't do with your life, what I think is best. Why
would you not think that this isI know best, I'm I'm me,

(48:46):
I'm so great. It comes offas very selfish. But the thing is,
I don't The reason that these characterswere able to love them so much
is because it's played with humor.It's written very well, and I don't
genuinely see them as malicious. Idon't see them as prue, as bad
parents. I just think that thisis truly what they believe, the old
fashioned beliefs. Well, that's howthey were raised too. They don't know

(49:07):
any different if they were raised thesame way. They're doing what their parents
taught them and what society expects fromthem. So I don't fault them for
that for the most part. Especiallyyeah, especially thinking about to the fact
that they have gone through World WarTwo relatively recently. We see that kind

(49:31):
of at the beginning of the show. There's still references to World War Two,
and you know, people that wentthrough that, like, they're they're
different tightly, They're a tough generation. Yeah, and I think that comes
out in parenting styles for sure.Yeah. Okay, so before we leave

(49:53):
this scene, the okay, thewhole wine thing, right, like Erica,
you mentioned the wine being maybe thething that gets him to talk,
because okay, he's drinking this angularwine, right, and every time we
cut to his face, he issip sip, sipp in. They're very
really wanting us to see him sipin that wine. Yeah, and at

(50:15):
the beginning when they order the acidicangular wine, the guys like, are
you trying to kill me? Youknow? Ominous? Right? I think
it's too on the nose, though, to think that this abe is going
to have a heart attack right now. So I looked it up. I
googled a little bit. Sorry god, yeah, go ahead, acidic wine?

(50:37):
Can you know? It's the Googlesays it. So I'm guessing that
I'm not a wine drinker myself,especially I do not like red wine.
But acidic wine can be so likeintense that heartburn can the heartburn that you
will get from drinking a lot ofred wine, especially on an empty stomach,
can be mistaken for a heart attack. So that combined, yeah,

(50:57):
so that's my boys, My littleNancy Drew like, I think I solved
the mystery. I don't think it'sa heart attack. I think it's symptoms
of a heart attack. And hemight be rushed to the hospital. But
the waiter says, they're serving thedover soul in two ways, and one
of them is like a citrus infusionor marinate or whatever. So I think
that a citrus fish just Nancy drewin over here, combined with a very

(51:19):
angular acidic wy yeah, could couldgive him some heartburn. Well that's so
pretty frequent heartburning, indigestion people,It mimics symptoms of a heart attack.
But at least we know he doesn'tdie, then, yeah, that's true.
Yeah, Like, yeah, it'stoo because we see him what was
that the wedding seventy three? ButI think, but I think it will.

(51:45):
I think that this is what's goingto happen if I were to play
you know, seeing the future here, I think that he will go get
rushed to the hospital, maybe thinkthat it's a heart attack, and that
will prompt him to finally, finally, yeah, say to Miriam, like
I could see that almost almost comingto you know, grips with like my
death made me realize that I've gotto tell you what I just oh my

(52:06):
gosh, you know, and sothat will give us the final touching,
that will that will prompt the finaltouching that will end the show and make
us just die crying. Oh yeah, And remember when Moish was in the
hospital, like he had a heartattack and that got Abed to like write
down and kind of like pour hisheart out because he thought was dying.

(52:28):
Yeah, so I could see y'allthat come. That was up until this
episode and this moment in this episode, that scene with Abe reading to Moist
in the hospital, and God didI fall in love with Kevin Pollock in
that moment? Yeah? Wow,did he do so much with no words?
I mean, the two of theseguys. That was my favorite ABE
moment until this episode happened. Icried this too. This, this scene

(52:52):
listeners is not only my favorite Abemoment, it is my favorite Tony Shalhoub
moment of all time ever, AndI love Tony Shaloub. There all things
Tony shall live beautiful. This issome of his best, his finest work.
Yeah. And to say that thisscene is too long, I think
that because of the parallels you candraw between what Abe and Miriam are both
going through. And we'll get toit when we talk about Miriam. Why

(53:14):
am I calling her Miriam like episode? Because Mariam calls her Miriam. You're
right, Oh my god, I'msuch an actor, Like I get into
the mindset of different characters I'm talkingabout. I really am doing that.
It's so true. I can't callher Midge. Yeah. So the parallels
that you can draw between the twoof them and what they're both going through,

(53:34):
I think speaks to the whole show. And I think that this scene
was exactly the right length. Youknow. Yeah, I could used less
Gordon Ford. I'm just saying alwaysless it was, but it wasn't too
much in this episode, which wasgood. No, yeah, you know
what, I'm just realizing any Gordonforward makes me just mad. I'm like,

(53:55):
yo, no, thank you.I just get very like Nick when
he's on my screen something about him. Anyway, But Erica, you had
you had more notes, right?Uh oh yeah? So um. I
believe it was when it opened upthe scene opened that they mentioned at how
Princess Margaret was hysterical and why wasshe hysterical because of Abe's daughter, And

(54:19):
it's just like only they knew orrealized, like, you know, there
was somebody who was responsible and itwasn't Princess Margaret. Yeah. I thought
that was cool. And also Abementioned that he was sixty four. That
all immediately in my head. Youknow the Beatles song when I'm sixty four
popped into my head. Nah?Yeah, well an Abe, Like,

(54:42):
clearly he's had quite a revelation here, because even from the opening scene,
I was cracking up because I knewas soon as what's her name missus Moyer
walked in to talk to Joel andmin as soon as she said he's been
rude disrespectful, I was like,holy shit, she's talking about Abe.

(55:06):
It's not the same thing, yes, Segue Jones, Okay, like into
this section that was so funny,Like he's rude, disrespectful, incredible,
smoking smoking a pipe. It's likeno. And the fact that Joel and
Midge are sitting there cracking up togetherat the thought of Abe causing all of

(55:28):
these issues and throwing tantrums at theschool made me really happy, and I
think it made me like them together. Yeah, like I get I go
so back and forth. I goso back and forth in this episode did
not help me figure out how thefuck I feel about Joel. Honestly,
because I saw them both, Iget why they're they go together. They

(55:51):
wore each other and they're like,they're best friends and this they remind me
so much of my parents after theygot divorced. You guys, I gotta
tell you, like my parents,the thing about them that kept them,
I think that they got married inthe first place is because they shared a
sense of humor. I have avery strong sense of humor. I have
a very strong like point of viewon life, and and I'm not shy

(56:12):
about saying. And my parents likeexactly gave me this sense of humor thing
runs real strong in my family.We are all very funny. I'm the
only actor in my family, butI have a family that is incredibly theatrical
because of they're they're big personalities andeveryone's a ham and a half, right,
And I get it why Joel thoughthe could be a stand up comedian

(56:34):
because him and Midge think the exactsame way. They think that life is
funny. They're like, look atthis teacher lady, and Midge is,
you know, looking at missus.Moyer's thinking, how can I put this
in an act? You know?And we know funny? She doesn't say
I know funny and this is funny, Like yes, she and Joel no
funny And watching them together like,I'm I get it, I'm I'm all

(56:58):
on board with Joel at this point, I'll just say it, Yeah,
you are well because this scene inparticular and watching his you know, his
facial expressions and the acting that MichaelMichael Zegan did to convey so much without
saying anything. When we see hisflashback, you know, to Midge meeting

(57:22):
Moish and Shirley and kind of reminiscingand he keeps looking over at her kind
of fondly when Midge is cracking up, like and what does Moist say to
him? He said, this,my son is a girl you don't let
go of. And it looks onme. He said this pop is forever.

(57:42):
And I think he meant that likehe believed it. He meant it,
and you know what, and hehas stayed true to it. And
both of them that they we seeMidge doesn't go on tour later because she
wants to stay and close to himwhile he's in prison and like kind of
take care of him that way.Neither one of them and will leave the
other. No, And I thinkI think that even if they don't get

(58:04):
married, they're they're always kind ofmarried. Yes, yeah, they they
have that connection, right, Yeah, when you when yeah, when you
share children, it's like you're tiedtogether, you know, like it or
not. Well, and her flashbackwhen Midge is kind of reminiscing and thinking
about you know, they're fighting atfirst, arguing because he had given her

(58:25):
the signal like an hour ago togo home when they were with his buddies,
and you know, she gets outof the taxi and starts walking towards
the bridge and Joel insists that thebridge is in the opposite direction, and
of course Midge is right. Butthen they start dancing because their song is
playing in the cab and they hearit, and I just, I don't

(58:50):
know, I was a sucker forit. I was like, this is
so SWEETE and was a sucker forit too, he was, just I
know. And their song was YouBelong to Me by Joe Stafford, and
I just I was sitting there thinkingabout how they do kind of belong to
each other. They are constantly allthroughout their lives, they are connected.

(59:16):
They find their way back to eachother, and even though it might not
work romantically, they are connected.Like I think Amy Sherman Palladino to a
certain extent wants us to see themas soulmates. But yeah, just and
Midge like which they are, whichthey are married? Yeah, And then

(59:37):
I know I saw a few peoplelike I saw spacebook comments here and there
when I was scrolling about the wholePenny Pan thing and seeing Joel in nineteen
fifty eight like get kind of Flirtywith Penny. I will say, I
love how many callbacks they're were tothe pilot episode in this and yes,

(59:58):
the fact that she is sitting they'reopening it with a pencil sharp runner and
she's like this new fangled thing,like I gotta figure it out. Oh
my gosh. But Joel like looking, did you did you get the other
callback when when he says what wouldI do without you? And remember when
when Joel had the really crappy timeslot and they're just like, oh,

(01:00:22):
really it's a bad time slot.We'll fix He's like, I go on
it when I am like one terribleyeah, and she kept saying we'll fix
it, We'll fix it, We'llfix it. What would I do without
you? You'd go on it whenI am or ten what was it ten
PM? I can't remember. Ithink it was. I've watched I rewatched
one and two. It was becausegood for you. Imogene and Archie were
coming to see them, and ifyou got a time slot. At one

(01:00:43):
forty five am, clearis are here, so sweet but like a penny pan
and he says like, hey,you feel like going to get a drink?
And you see him like in thatmoment in the flashback happy and when
it cuts to his face in thismoment as he's reflecting on that, like
it is pained, Like he isclearly regretful. And I don't think,

(01:01:07):
you know, it's far off tosay that he is spending the rest of
his life making up for that mistakethat he betrayed her, and I just
it's not it's kind of not sadto me. No, it's I think
that this is pretty much screaming outat this point, the writing that they

(01:01:28):
are going to you know, Amyand Daniel are like they are going to
end up together, Like that's kindof how yeah, I mean, look
at this their song. Look atthe lyrics. You know it's you belong
Just remember when a dream appears,you belong to me. I'll be so
alone without you. Maybe you'll belonesome too. They are hammering, Yeah,
home, and I think so,I obviously they want us to love

(01:01:51):
Joel. How do you write obviously, yes, redeem Joel, redeemed Joel,
and it's like, oh, sorry, we get it already. Um,
Erica, how do you feel aboutthis whole Joel Midged thing. Well,
you know, I think I don'tknow if it was episode one or
two. I'm like, you know, I really don't want them to get
back together, and I think thatI'm I'm also back on the team.

(01:02:12):
I think they did a really niceway of this, reminding us of how
the relationship started, how it youknow, where it we're fizzle, but
also where it's coming to. Butyou know, there's no mention of May,
so we have to just kind ofyeah, kind of like go,
okay, he's past that, that'sdone. But I get the sense real
quick. I get the sense beforeI forget. I think that they had

(01:02:36):
a storyline planned for May that hadto change because I think they had to
do a little bit of back peddlingbecause Stephani issue blew up so big.
I think, yeah, and that'sfair, and surely references it a couple
of times, like back early on, so they don't entirely forget about it.
But I can also buy that Joelis you know, he can't change

(01:02:58):
anything, he can't do anything aboutit, and he moves on fairly quick.
Yeah, it was powering. Sheis called This is not called the
Marvelous Joel Mazel, y'all. Like, if this were a show about Joel,
I'm sure we would get more ofhis feelings for how he misses May.
But you know, I think they'redoing right by not constantly mentioning her,
because then it would just draw.It's like the reason that they're just
giving us enough imaging to make itmakes sense, and also to let us

(01:03:21):
know, like we we don't wantthat. They're honoring the relationship of imaging,
you know, because Imaging was avery long established character and she's still
a part of Midge's life, whichI really enjoy knowing that we can't get
imaging. I enjoy the way they'reincluding her. But to include May more
would I think be weird? Yeah? I don't, Yeah, go ahead,

(01:03:42):
Well no I don't. It's notthat I just think that, it's
just that we're we've been led tojust know that Joel is for Midge.
He's all about Midge. He onlycares about Midge. We've talked about that,
you know, on and on,so I'm I'm okay with that in
the end that yeah, but um, I did love like you talked about
the throwbacks. I love that theybrought back her blonde hair. Um,

(01:04:05):
yeah, I thought back right whenoh yeah, she bleached her her pubic
area. She was running around thelittle courtyard and all but that. I
love that pipe. It was.It was adorable. But I loved all
the throwbacks in that scene. AndI also loved just the kind of the
attacks at the teacher, like youknow, oh, did I startle you?

(01:04:27):
Oh? I do that all thetime. It was so good when
when they oh and when she saidat the end, can we go?
She said, my mind may go? And I was just like, oh
gosh, missus Moyer is because toomuch times like asking a teacher like in
school, like can I go tothe bathroom? You may go to the

(01:04:47):
bath One of my favorite arden ardenMorin is her name. I love this
actor. When she says, um, in the beginning, we've never banned
a grandparent before. Even the hobbygroup seems dismayed. I will say,
uh, I will say, assomeone who works in the field, I
have I don't correct the parents,but also the parents are not afraid of

(01:05:09):
bait. I'll tell you that.It's very, very different now. I
thought it was funny that she issuch like a little her little sweet cute
like high pitched boys. She's sobut she's like scary at the same you
know, it was a really greatlike just the way that they created that
character. It was so interesting andlayered. Just gonna say one other thing
about the Penny Pan thing, Joelasking her to go get a drink,

(01:05:33):
and then when we flash back tothe present as him and Midge are kind
of like having a little moment likea good chat as they're leaving, and
he asked her to go get adrink sometime. So you know, that's
talking about the kids, that's right, but not talking about the kids.
I kind of saw it as likeJoel being hopeful, yeah, that they

(01:05:58):
could rekindle something like he was sittingthere, you know, thinking throughout that
meeting, obviously flashing back to youknow, his parents meeting her and his
you know, very ill conceived affairwith baby Pan and regretting it, and
he's trying like you can see thathe the way he walked her watch away

(01:06:20):
walk away too, like he wasjust looking at her with this almost wistful
look on his face. And I'mjust like they both were though it too,
you know so and you know thatthey both looked at each other in
this wistful way when they were bothdoing this asshole thing. Like Midge brought

(01:06:40):
her cupcakes and like her cupcakes growwas better than this other lady's cupcakes.
She's like, and then Joel liketalking about faking a war injury, like
what they're both apples to get outof coaching, Like the dads are just
as bad. They asked me tocoach something I wanted to be Like,
that's pretty normal, bro. Likeright there, they're like they're like,
god bid we should have to getinvolved or get involved in a way that

(01:07:01):
we don't prefer. They were like, forbid, not meant to be parents?
Like no, they are so perfectfor each other. Right, So
so this is the thing, Thisis where I'm torn because that there's that,
right, there's present day Joel andMidge that are divorced, and I
see them like I saw my parents. I love them together. And I
remember as a kid thinking I loveseeing my parents together, and I'm so

(01:07:24):
glad they're not married. Yeah,it's like I was so delighted that my
dad could come and still like spendtime with with my mom and my sister,
and we would all like have funtogether, watch movies together, like
play together, you know, andwe could be more of a family because
Daddy had hurt his girlfriend and mommyhad a boyfriend and they were happy that
way. And they were and likeI said, they were still like friends

(01:07:45):
with benefits. You know, theywere loving each other in all the best
ways of marriage except actual marriage,because they both needed Yeah, they both
needed to be with other people too. It was kind of like an open
an open marriage or whatever, butthey were doing it divorced and living separately.
So I know it sounds weird,but like it was incredibly healthy for
me and it was a much betterlife. Thats like, if it works
for you, it works. Andclearly that was something that worked for them

(01:08:09):
and worked for all of you.And I think that's kind of a I
don't know, like it's it canbe a sign of a more evolved way
of thinking, in a more matureway of seeing relationships, because sometimes I
you know, this is a wholeother tangent, but I do think it's
possible that people might not get everythingthat they are looking for in one relationship

(01:08:31):
and to people who they're like,well, I can acknowledge that, Like
I have no problem with an openrelationship. I think that you know,
that can be healthy, especially insituations where there's you know, a family
involved. And so there's that,right, there's like this modern way of
seeing Joel and Midge that I reallylike them together. But then these flashbacks

(01:08:56):
made me remember then Midge. Midgeis being the perfect wife, entertaining the
street hockey buddies, and then she'slike she's like being all nice to him,
like the bridge may have been theother way when you were a boy.
Like so Arrows like, shut up, Midge, he's being an asshole.
He's like I'm married to Barbara Stanwickkid like being all all like the
it's the Joel that I hate,like this little spoiled bratman, just like

(01:09:19):
fucking Gordon Ford. There is nothingcold I hate more than a baby man.
Just grow a pair, dude,like fucking man child. I have
no tolerance. So for some reason, the flashbacks with joelan Midge and like
even the dancing in the street,I hate when Joel dances with her in
the street, like you are makingthis taxi man. Wait, when he

(01:09:39):
proposed to her with that carnival song, I was like, yeah, oh
I hate this. I hated it. I hated that proposal, all of
them stopping traffic to dance. Iwas like, fuck off, man,
you are a dick, like youentitled little pieces. Oh, I really
hated I really hate it. Whenthey brought up Penny panagaan Oh, It's

(01:09:59):
just like, don't do this tome. This is gonna piss me off.
Like as soon as she popped upon my screen, I was just
like, dol such a dick.Like I meant, I went, I
don't immediately back to it. Yeah, oh yeah. Michael Zegan was able
to go back to the old JoelJoel like really seriously and then could seamless
like think about how many years it'sbeen since he was like that, It's

(01:10:20):
been a long time. Yeah ohyeah, oh I know. And this
is what I'm saying. I thinkhe does not get enough credit. And
sometimes I think that Michael Zegan isinfluencing the way that I see this character.
I'm I'm shocked that I'm doing thisbecause I am usually really good at
keeping them separate because I'm an actorand I know that I'm watching actors,
but I can't do that with JoeMichael Zegan makes me like Joel more and

(01:10:45):
more, especially this season. ButI also do think it's because I like
the Joel character this season. Yeah, he has definitely grown, like that
is that is a fact, LikeJoel is not the same person and that
he was when he went and pooledaround on Midge with Penny Pan And I

(01:11:06):
don't think I still don't think he'sthe strongest got like there are still some
character flaws there, but he's differentnow and I think he truly does admire
Midge and see her talent and hejust like her dad said like, don't
pick a week man, and shepicked a week man and Joel couldn't handle

(01:11:29):
it. Don't pick a week man, just saying I have more about that
later, don't huh? Okay,you're reading my mind? Oh as always,
I love us, I love us. Okay, is there anymore um
notes for the scene before Nope?Next is just the transition from I did
think it was funny how he referencedall of her college friends hating him,

(01:11:51):
assuming because he you know, sheon her but going to college, just
the lead these luncheon for the classof fifty three. I was just like,
Oh, this is gonna be it'sgonna be fun, it's gonna be
interesting. Which is which is eightyears ago. I don't know why they
call it a ten year reunion becauseit's yeah, definitely eight years. But

(01:12:12):
Okay, that was odd. Thatwas kind of funky, but I I
don't know. I also maybe itwas because it had been a long week
or something, or if it was, I think it was also intentionally supposed
to be kind of grading. Theimmediate giggling and high pitched this whole was
Ye, it was supposed to bea good job. I did like that

(01:12:34):
though. I was like, that'skind of clever bringing the cavalry when you
need the flask to light up ofthis giant glass. But that whole scene,
I mean, I know that alot of people seemed to think that
this felt like a filler episode,but I think it was so what impactful,
Like every time I saw that popup on h Facebook or I think

(01:13:00):
I saw a couple of Reddit commentsabout it, and I was just like,
no, no, this this washuge. Well and also like,
if you don't, if you don'tlike this kind of shit, you don't
like the Palladinos not watched the GilmoreGoals because this kind of fast paced,
like high pitched dialogue is what theydo best, these kind of bantery like
women who are just like because weall know that, don't we. And

(01:13:21):
we've all you know, you've beenthis woman. You know you have bitch
like don't even try to tell themyou have it. Listener, you out
there saying that you're nothing like this. Oh yes, you are in your
way. You all all have ourmoments, all have our bitch moments.
Well, and it's it's just oneof those things like I don't know.
And seeing Midge go back into thatsituation after the growth we've seen from her

(01:13:45):
since we first saw her around hercollege friends back in like episode one and
two of the first season, itwas just so glaringly different. I was
like, this is not you anymore, Like this doesn't just remember what she
did back then, which she's sofar different. Yeah, that was very

(01:14:05):
interesting. I did think it washilarious though, when they were all sitting
around the table and you know,talking about what they bid on one girl
who got one darts, yeah,and oh god, like they wouldn't sell
them if they were dangerous, andI was just like they were banned.
Yeah, they were banned like thefirst time in nineteen seventy or something like

(01:14:29):
a poor kid I think it wasa seven year old girl that died at
one point, like just so dangerous, and I appreciated that line that they
threw they wouldn't sell them if theywere a danger They don't know about the
toys from the seventies and eighties,but you know, they kind of hit
every stereotypical like gossipy note with thisgroup of women, like giggling about a

(01:14:58):
girl who ended like student who endedup with mister d and speculating about you
know, carriage and all sorts oflike the giggling was driving and crazy,
and then the two faced way theywere like, oh, hi, when
what was her name? And thinkquirky wasn't is that what it was?
There was something like that, Ohwe always hated her and they're like,

(01:15:20):
oh hi, how are you?Yeah, like that that was rough,
but I did think it was funnyhow we got the throwback reference to Palmer.
Yeah, that the guy that Midgedated before Joel who was dull as
hell, and I did think itwas funny. I wanted to go back
and look at Petrick because Petra wasone of the only names that I remember

(01:15:43):
standing out to me, and itis a different actress than Yes is my
girl in the first one. AndI flashed back to when she said my
roommate was fat. Yeah, whenMidge was like, Petra says, Midge
gave the toast at her wedding andshe stole the show. Was like,
so were you at Mitche's wedding,because that's when she says during her speech,

(01:16:04):
you know, my roommate Petra wasfriendly and fat, which was perfect.
So I'll have someone to eat withwho wants to you my boyfriend.
I was just like, did Petraenjoy that? Because I doubt it,
Like Kara, good call Kara.She didn't mention her about her weight in

(01:16:24):
her little message to her shoulder self, did yeah yeah? And I was
just like, oh, because Iremember that line. Yeah, And I
was like, maybe Sherman Palladino reallyhates fat people. Like this happens all
the time, where they'll throw somethingout there and make a joke. I
was like, damn it. Guyslike, oh, yeah, they're great

(01:16:45):
at being sensitive to um all kindsof groups. Oh yeah, it's like
that was awful. But that stuckout to me. I was just like
m Petra. But the way thatwas like, this is, um,
this is funny, right, thisis sure them referencing Midge like, you
know, in her little comedy career, like it was so it was like

(01:17:11):
a foregone conclusion to them that thiswas just something she was doing for fun
right now, that this was achapter, you know, like she was
saying, it's going to be somethingyou can tell your grandkids, like that's
great. And the fact that Midgesitting there with these women, like you
could see it start to dawn onher like no, like this is what

(01:17:31):
I want, Like I don't.I don't fit in like this anymore.
This is not who I am anymore. And it just kind of sealed it
when she called back to what LennyBruce told her at the end of the
pilot, Like I got so happywhen she said, yeah that line.

(01:17:53):
She's like, if there is youknow, if there is anything else in
the entire world that I could possiblydo to earn a living, I would
anything. I'm talking drag cleaners tothe clan crippled kid, portrait painter,
slaughterhouse attendant. And then she says, you know, just something a friend
told me once, and I waslike, oh, I got Lenny,
and I would say, said,why do you do it? And then
she said, because I loved shedid like the Lenny snap She did like

(01:18:16):
the snap point Lenny thing. Youknow, it's so good, and her
remembering that because that was you knowwhat after she gets put in the same
cop car with him when she getsarrested after showing her boobs at the gas
light, and she ends up bailinghim out of jail, which I had
forgotten about. I completely forgot thatshe bailed Lenny out. And that's when

(01:18:39):
she has that exchange with him andasked him, you know, why do
you do it? And the factthat that stuck with her all those years,
and that she has the recall tosay exactly what he said, oh,
meant a lot to her though,And clearly it's been in her mind.
She looks up to Lenny, youknow, she really clearly really does.

(01:19:01):
And I am going to be upsetif we do not see him again.
Oh and I will say I didrewatch the pilot after all of these
references kept coming back up, andthe first time we see Lenny Bruce is
in the pilot when Midge and Joelare at that burlesque show and you know,

(01:19:23):
Lenney gets on stage and Joel's like, you know, this is the
guy I wanted you to see.Oh yeah, and that seeing that now
after almost being at the end,I was like, I kind of love
this that Joel is the one thatintroduces her to Lenny, and that kind
of sparks this whole entire journey.We do know the Palladino's love full circle

(01:19:48):
moments, Kara, you're seeing itright now, listeners. Kara is just
giving me this really great idea.What I'm going to do in my spirit
in what multi times say spirit timetime, is that Yeah, yeah,
I'm gonna rewatch season one if thereis a really if you guys have time,

(01:20:08):
listeners, it might be a goodidea if you're in the mood to
go back and just play season oneagain, have it on in the background,
whatever, let the words kind ofwash over you, because yeah,
if there's one thing the Paladino's love, it is a full circle and we're
already getting a lot of them,and so you might appreciate the last episode
and it might make more sense toyou after seeing what the first season was
because they would bring it a lotof things home. Well. I had

(01:20:30):
a little epiphany an idea when Iwas watching the first season, because watching
the pilot again it ends you know. That's when we see Midge's career start.
And last episode I mentioned that Iwas kind of upset that we hadn't
gotten to see her big break alittle bit sooner, but now I kind

(01:20:53):
of love it. We saw inthe very first episode the launch of her
career, her love for comedy.She's getting arrested and hauled away for showing
her boobs in the gaslight and Susiesees something in her. So I am
totally seeing in the last episode thatwe see her big break. We see

(01:21:15):
her at Carnegie Hall now that sheis successful. It's this infamous night we
see her getting dragged off by police, and it's a nice bookend to the
pilot episode where we see that spark. She gets arrested, she meets Lenny,
and if she finds out in thislast episode that Lenny has died or

(01:21:35):
something like that, if they playwith time a little bit, or if
Lenny comes back and then she hasthis Carnegie Hall performance where she's made it
like I could appreciate that type offull circle. I think that would work.
And spoiler alert, I will say, what are you spoiling? Pooh
makes an appearance and is listed inthe final episode. Oh yeah, yeah,

(01:22:00):
because Luke Kirby is on the castlist on the final episode, So
we're either seeing him in a flashbackin present time or something. And I'm
feeling better going into it after thisepisode. Yeah. I think it's because
they continued the story from last week, like when didn't go back and forth,

(01:22:24):
back and forth. I think we'rejust gonna I hope it's just smooth
sailing, no flash forwards this time. Yeah. So I loved how the
girls brought up the fact that theythat when a Midge said that you know,
oh she was you know, avirgin until she was married and like
no, no, no, whenyou were a fiance, that they they

(01:22:45):
actually we want the scene where wesaw them, and I think that's like
one of the only like more explicitsex scenes that we've seen in this show
was you know, Joel and Midgeon the tree. Yeah. I was
like, I was like that wasanother pilot call back. Yeah, and
and I loved how that was thenight she got engaged y'all. And it
did not seem like it was herfirst time. No no, no,

(01:23:08):
no no. Um. And thenwe never really talked about when they went
to visit the old dorm rooms andthe way the girls looked at They're like,
um, are you looking for yourkids? I was so like,
we're in our thirties. But youknow, the lark was really hilarious when
she h, you know, cleanedup their carpet and um, and then

(01:23:29):
trying to kind of like you know, like try to like at cool with
the kids. Like they're like,oh, yeah, you're listening to that
rock And they were listening to runAway and and she brought up the Andrew
Sisters and they're like, oh mygosh. And those girls were just like
my mom has that? Yeah,my mom. Do you notice the difference.
The difference between those two songs too, is the truly uly duly by
the Andrew Sisters. The lyrics arewhen a Swiss boy comes a calling on

(01:23:55):
a Swiss smiths in June and thenthey're like two literally do yeah and make
your dreams come true. It's likeall about finding your love and then what's
like runaway. It's like I'm walkingin the rain, there's a fall and
not feel the pay like you know, it's someone who's alone, and they're
like, you know, why didyou? Why did you leave? And

(01:24:16):
like it's just totally different sentiment fromyou know what what Midge's life is,
like, Yeah, that was funny. And then obviously they're they're notes that
they left. Oh and before weget there, I think I just want
to say I think that the scenewhere Midge was like cleaning up and and
she said, what am I eighty? You know, I just think that
I was wondering, like why isa scene here? What is it?

(01:24:38):
What is it trying to show?I just think it's meant to show that
like Midge is realizing she's not akid anymore. She's older than she hangs.
Yeah, you know, like youyou're and especially at in the sixties
to be thirty you were, it'sa much older thirty. It's a much
older age. Yet it's time forher to go after what she wants,
like she's very no more waiting around. Yeah, yeah, she's starting to

(01:25:00):
feel like chomping at the bit here, like this has got to happen.
She's only been at this for threeyears, which I'm kind of like,
to be an actor, it's like, yeah, I've been acting my whole
life and I'm still not where youknow, I want to be. But
that's that's the nature of But She'sthink it's different in the sixties, I
will say. And also to cometo to come to something so late in

(01:25:24):
life, to just get started,you know, you're going to be feeling
a little more anxious, and that'swhat I think. But this fire is
re lit, like it is ignited, and that's why you know, ultimately
later when we see her go confrontSusio, it's just like, yep,
not confront but you know it wasn'tconfidence actually, like no, that's the

(01:25:47):
right word, Like that was anintense moment, but oh yeah she is.
You can see that drive in herback. And I liked it,
like I feel like, I thoughtthat was very realistic, and I don't
know, I was kind of we'llget there, we'll get there. I
don't want to go into the Susiestuff too much yet. I want to

(01:26:08):
stick with just just the finishing up. Um, what we have for this
scene, Erica, what else yougot for this scene. Um, I
was just it was just like onelittle thing in there where they're when they
were reading the notes, and um, I forget what you girl said it.
She's like, oh that was myby Khalil Jabraun phase and I gave
it away with my jump ups.I was like, oh, bird was
funny. His work is beautiful.Yeah, the notes were Midge's idea and

(01:26:34):
she doesn't remember that they were.I thought that was interesting, like at
her note obviously, like I thinkthe way the Palladinos structured this episode and
wrote it, with Hetty later echoingthis, don't that Midge wrote to herself,
you know with an exclamation mark?That played out beautifully, it did.

(01:26:57):
But when you guys first first walkheard that Midge's note said don't with
an exclamation mark, what did youthink of? Like what came to mind
first? Thinking of Midge where she'sat now. I probably think like,
don't give up, you know,don't let them getting your way. But
back then she probably would Who knowswhat she was thinking because she was such

(01:27:17):
a different person back then, Likeshe was so more driven to be a
wife and a mother. It wasn'tyou know, there was no other Yeah,
right, three before thirty right,Oh yeah, you know, but
I really would love to be inher headspace for when she was in college,
because I really don't know what shewas really telling herself. But now

(01:27:38):
it makes a lot more sense.Yeah. Well, when you write notes
like this to your older self,you're kind of thinking of Okay, when
I'm when I'm a parent, whenI'm like, I'm thinking of myself as
like a child, what would Isay to child me? And the only
parenting advice Midge ever got was don'tfrom Abe. That's the only thing she
ever heard of. Don't you that. Don't go to college there they'll have

(01:28:01):
terrible DELI don't pick a week tooRose as well. Yeah, and don't
is like Abes thing he wants childrento be be afraid. Don't don't be
brave, don't be fearless. Youknow how many things are are to be
afraid of. There's things he hadthat fantastic, but it's true, like

(01:28:23):
they're they are not Yes, peoplelike you can do this, like no,
you can do that. It's alldon't do this, don't do that,
don't do this, like everything isset out and I just I don't
know. I went back and fortha lot when because when I first heard
her say don't with an exclamation mark, I was just like, what the

(01:28:43):
hell did that mean for her backthen? Because I could see how it
was pertinent now right, But Ijust I don't know, or like don't
don't forget, like what this timeperiod felt like? Don't forget? I
don't know, like I went througha loop. I even pause that episode
for I bet, I bet ourlisteners have a bunch of ideas, and

(01:29:08):
I bet we're going to talk aboutthis more in listener feedback. So um,
let's let's save maybe I think otherthings might come sure to we'll get
other ideas from our amazing listeners,because god damn they we have such great
listeners, small people out there thatthat talk to us. Thank you making
us look better. Oh I willsay sorry, the what was this this

(01:29:29):
episode? Um? The princess andthe plea that yeah don't. I'm assuming
that would be a possible interpretation ofwhat the plea is. Did you guys
think that at all? What doyou mean pleaing to who? Because I
thought that it was the plea,the plea to sense when I was at
too, like, I you meanmy break. That's we're all a break.

(01:29:51):
We're that's the plea that we're allplea don't but like me yes,
yeah, like all of those twoand then also with Abe, like I
just like don't give up, likedon't let yeah, don't let this go,

(01:30:14):
like don't waste any more time,like the whole episode could be seen.
Even Joel also doesn't want to wasteany more time because he asked me,
let's go out sometime. I feellike that, Yeah, it's all
kind of there's a lot of littlesubtle double meanings that you could look into

(01:30:34):
it, but I don't know.I really like negative, this negative reinforcement
mmmm thing instead of instead of yeah, instead of positive. Yeah, they're
not they're not yes people, that'sper darn. One other thing I want
to comment on is how well howthey keep commenting on how everything has gotten

(01:30:55):
smaller and and that's a theme withwith Abe two right, because he says,
I think that the world was alwaysthis way. I think my daughter
was always this way. The thingsare the same size. You are the
thing that's changing. You know,the world has always been the way it
is. He's just realizing it now, and he's not able to he's not

(01:31:16):
able to deal with his Like we'vebeen saying, his world is being rocked
and he just doesn't know what todo. Now what does this mean for
me? Like? Where do Igo from here? Am I too old
to learn a new trick? Youknow? In same thing with Miriam?
If the world has always been thisway and it looks this different ten years

(01:31:39):
later? Boy, oh boy?Am I getting scared? Right now?
How's it going to look in twentyyears? You know? Like I don't
want it. I don't want it, don't again, right, I don't
want it to I don't want tolook back on and I don't want to
come back in another ten years andfeel this way away. Yeah, yeah,
she's she's just Yeah, both herand Aber just they're not content with

(01:32:00):
what they're seeing and what their liveshave become. They don't feel like they
fit. Where do I fit?You know? That is the scariest feeling
too. What is more terrifying thanthat? The uncertainty of that? You
know? Oh, nice and warmfuzzy is in this episode, right,
Oh, a warm fuzzy is though. Did you notice all the girls um

(01:32:20):
colored outfits match their flowers? Arepaying? Very very yeah, very subtly
but very aesthetics on this show neverdisappoint h Nope, it is like candy
for the eyes. There is avideo that I will put I just thought
of it now. I will makea note to remember to do it.
There is a video that I foundwith Daniel Palladino talking about his episode from

(01:32:43):
I think season two or three.I sent it to you guys. It's
talking about his Emmy nominated episode umand it's it's the one where that you
see Midge and Susie racing around thevoice over that studio, you know,
and I love yeah to see tosee this video, you see Daniel Polle,
you know, breakdown the aesthetics ofhow the show looks and the sounds
because he's so musical, Daniel Palladinoand totally Schmogoli, like the mind blowing

(01:33:12):
work that goes into making this showso unique and so different. Like listeners,
you're gonna your mind's gonna be blownwhen you watch this video. You
have to watch this video. Itthat's not long. It's like ten minutes,
which I wish it was longer.After this video ended, I was
like, I want to see anentire documentary of Daniel Palladino and Amy Sherman
Palladino talking about and the cinematographer.His last name is David Mueller. I

(01:33:36):
think Muller. I think that it'shis name. I want to see them
all talk about how they make thisshow because so many things happen that you
don't even realize. It's so subtleand seamless, but it all serves to
give you an experience of God,damn, I love this show. Why
do I love this show so much? Why does it feel like it's such

(01:33:56):
high quality? I can't put myfinger on it, but yeah, we
tell you. It's layered. It'slike that opening shot of um, that
really wide shot of the girls infront of the college, and then they
all walk into the shot. Theygo from far away to close up.
It's just subtle things like that thatyou don't see done very often in comedies,
very high quality, very hard todo. He talks about how the

(01:34:18):
sets are often built three sixty sothat they can which is rare in comedy
especially, and not only rare ontelevision, but rare and comedic television.
You know, usually sets are justset up to have one shot where you
can kind of pay on wide tothe left and to the right. But
their sets are like they often willcompletely three sixty turn the camera around.

(01:34:41):
That's so hard to do, y'all. Like, yeah, so watch this
video before I forget, I'm gonnamake that note. All right, well
where did we leave off? Weare going, what's next? Gordon?
And do you want to go?Just like in a nice smooth transition of
going Gordon and he has a smoothtransition. Okay, give it to me,

(01:35:02):
yes, right, Well, yeah, I mean, like you know,
I mean their their marriage confuses Ralph, So why wouldn't it be like,
you know, so we are wehave Gordon and Hetty and I was
not expecting this. We see Gordonlike really like hyped up, like she
did this, she did what,you know, triple this of like what

(01:35:25):
are they talking about? And thenhe goes and he yells for Hetty,
and everyone's looking really concerned, likewhat's going on? Is this gonna be
a fight? Is this gonna bea blow up? And he goes down
and he dramatically dips her and kissesher, and she is so tall and
elegant. It was beautiful. It'sa gorgeous little bummit. Yeah, gorgeous

(01:35:45):
drink of gorgeous. Oh my goodness, she worked her magic and booked Princess
Margaret. Well there's the princess forthe princess and the plate. So the
princess. How did Yeah, I'man idiot that I didn't even make that
connection. I did not have toadmit that. Why did I have to

(01:36:10):
admit that? Because we could tolook at the you know, the princess
maybe just the women I love.Yeah, we could, we could,
We could figure it out. Wecould any which way you would. There
were princessy vibes from Midges College.Yeah, yeah, that would be fair.
Also, you know Paradine parody andit is what Palladino's love their musicals,
so why not another musical title.So we find out that Princess Margaret

(01:36:33):
is going to be not only onthe show, but is going to be
the full hour, and he's bumpingJane Jacobs out of the show. So
so funny. But I loved howwe figured out who Jay Jacobs was because
I'm like, oh, I wasabout to, like, you know,
quickly google her and see who thiswoman is. And he's like he's like,
you know, talking to her,like you know, you're the person

(01:36:54):
who stopped Robert Moses from running aroad through Washington Square Park and and how
he became so soundgic, like that'sthe first place I visited when I came
here, and you saved the parkto save my memory. When he was
talking about the fountain a bunch ofweird people or like what say like Rando,
Yeah, it was so weird,it like I like it. I

(01:37:18):
had to. I guess. Iguess that's how he would have talked to
her on the show. And thenhe says, got a bumpy today.
I call you what we need afilm full of Phil's so rude? Okay,
so what was that there for?Was it just to show that he's
a just he is an asshole?Hey guess what? Hey world, in

(01:37:38):
case you didn't know, Hey,Jane, in case you didn't know,
Gordon Ford's an asshole. I'm like, yes, thank you, Get off
my screen, Kimmy, move italong. Now. This was the scene
to me that was just too long. I'm like, yeah, it was
a lot, it was anything,but it just I just made him on
principle, it's it's a possibility.And I think we need Gordon. I
think we need him now because hedo. We only were to get Midge

(01:38:00):
propelled into fame and and and success. I oh, we're gonna just we're
gonna ride. We're gonna ride theyou know, on Gordon's butt and get
her you know where she needs tobay. So I need a T shirt
that says I hate Gordon, Gordonhater, like stop the Ford do something.
I like it. I think youneed it. I think someone needs

(01:38:20):
to get there, petition cricket andmake you want Yeah, listeners, if
you want to send me that shirt. If you make shirts, we probably
have a shirt maker out there listening. It has to be a picture of
him with a circle and his faceslash yeah and aligne through it. Yes.
So we we know how this isgoing to work. You know,
it's presented that you know, um, Princess Margaret wants to be funny and

(01:38:45):
she's going to need the writers tocome up with something for her, come
up with a skit and Midge savesa day, which you know, hey,
it works, it's going to beamazing. Um. The writer's like,
so I it's very quick how ithappened. Like she's like, oh
yeah, I'll take care of this, guys, and you just work on
the monologue. So she's taking ownershipof Princess Margaret one hundred. I was

(01:39:11):
kind of like, really, Alvin, you really really like this is probably
the most important guest you're ever goingto have on your show. And I
was like, I got nothing.Yeah, so we have that, and
hey it works on that. Soshe realizes then who Hetty is and why

(01:39:32):
she's like like you could see her, yeah, like, oh that's Petty.
Okay. One thing I did likethat she went they were getting the
pep talk that she said the twentyand one line and poor Alvin. But
I mean, I think that's reallyall we really. I don't know if
there was anything else she really gotout of that scene other than like how

(01:39:54):
much cloud Petty has. Like sheis really good at her job. She's
really good at using her charisma andher and her ways to kind and her
connections to really book really right.Yeah, but I think that's like really
what helped us kind of like thisis how she is going to make this
move, Like this is what she'sreally talented at. Hetty's connections. The

(01:40:17):
fact that she was just not togo there because oh God, so like
there we are as soon as whenshe says to Gordon later on it is
like you owe me. I wasjust like, is she okay? So
did she have the sway with Jack, Parr and Pete in not getting minute

(01:40:40):
on the show? Like Gordon waslike, we have to keep her,
Like, do whatever you can tomake sure that I don't lose her.
It wouldn't surprise me if Hetty wasthe one who suggested pair the same as
the men then and she went andher connection. I like that theories and
like because obviously I don't think itwas as simple as like she was saying

(01:41:02):
you owe me because she got PrincessMargaret on the show. Like, I
don't think that's what it was.I was just like, oh, does
does he owe her? Because she'sthe reason that he was able to keep
Midge, like the reason Midge didn'tget Jack part. So I don't know
that was a I thought of,thank you're on to something. I think,

(01:41:23):
okay, So I had I hadthe question in my notes how the
fuck does Hetty have so much influence? And then a listener on Instagram I'm
going to jump into some feedback realquick. Gail Nestle, which I just
love that name, by the way, like Gail Nestle, it's just happy
to say, um so, hiGail, And she said, I'm pretty
sure Hetty is from the Whitney ArtMuseum family who first settled in Massachusetts from

(01:41:45):
London. Hence Princess Margaret's weather referenceto cousins in Massachusetts and Hetty's and Hetty's
social and financial influence and power overGordon Board. Her little art gallery reference
was huge, and she included theWikipedia Whitney family. Um like, thank
you, Gail for shedding that.I did not make that connection. And
that is fantastic, astute viewing awardgoes together so juicy. Oh my goodness,

(01:42:14):
yeah right, so right, Iknow, I love I love that
so much anyway, Yeah, so, but just really going really back to
what you were saying about Kara,about that, like what it was,
and I put that in my notesas well, like like what could she
possibly have done to really have thatloaded? Like you know, you owe
me, And I'm like, itcouldn't have anything to do with George.

(01:42:34):
I had nothing else because at thatpoint they don't care. But I really
think you really are onto something.So we we move on to Princess Margaret.
The actress was gorgeous. I loveher over exaggerated accent. It was
like, okay, but no,it was beautiful. It was beautiful.
No, no, but it's noteven over exaggerated. You guys, you

(01:42:57):
guys. I'm gonna put it inthe notes show notes a link to what
Princess Margaret actually sounded like this Thisactor Kate, she's got a crazy name,
a Bruisies a bruises I don't know. It's got two bees, two
z's. It's like a crazy busyif it's like Italian. Yeah, yeah,
Brusie. There you go. Sheis freaking bab u list this chick.

(01:43:19):
I was like, oh good,thank god they got a real brit
to do this. No, sheis a New York based actor. She
ain't British. She's just fucking talentedas man. Love round of applause.
Oh I'm just constantly clapping this episode. Just get everybody a nice round of
a plot. The actors are killingit, and this chick killed Princess Margaret.

(01:43:40):
This is exactly how Princess Margaret isquite the character. And yeah,
a lot of people know because ofyou know, all the all the shows
that are coming out. The Royalfamily is hot. Right now, you
know, and fascinating and drama.But this is exactly how Princess Margaret sounded.
She nailed it like it's scary andit definitely made the crown heart happy.

(01:44:01):
Um. But no, what Isay over the top, it's just
like, oh, it's just like, oh god, there it is a
royal accent is right there? Itwas. It was a basic yeah,
yeah, it was much. PrincessMargaret was so over the top, like
who knows where she got this personalityfrom, but she was quite the character
yep, charismatic, sexy. Um. Just a few things about her that

(01:44:21):
I just wanted to mention. Um. One we were looking into like when
did she ever go on a talkshow in the US? And I couldn't
find anything, but when she torethe US it was not until nineteen sixty
five. So we talked about howthey're probably playing with the timeline a little
bit. And I really would liketo hear why the Palladidos decided to bring

(01:44:44):
Princess Margaret into the picture, becauseit was just kind of like out of
nowhere. I honestly, you guysthink that they might have just known this
actor Kate A Bruises and like knownthat she can crush the character, and
then like, let's figure out away to get her on the show.
I I hope that's how it happened. That's because this chick needs to take
this act on the road. ThisPlease don't let this be the only time

(01:45:09):
she ever plays his character. Itwas so good. Oh my, I'm
gonna show up now. But Iwas gushing over this. I have such
an actor crush on this Kate ABrusie's chick. I'm pull marrymate. It
was really really good. Marry meas Princess Margaret. There, you go
there and just talk to me constwhispers, sweet nothings. It's amazing.
And I know that she was reallyloved by the US, especially they sympathize

(01:45:32):
with her after she had to renounceher engagement to Peter Townsend. And you
know, I thought about Princess Margaretbecause Princess Margaret was also kind of stuck
in between because of just sees thesetraditions, just because of the royal family
traditions, Like she was not allowedto marry the man that she loved,

(01:45:55):
her soulmate, the love of herlife, because he was divorced, and
really it was her sister making theseconnections for me also, so we're looking
at like just the kind of thedie comedy of like the female the girl
like who has she get permission tomarry and all the people that she has

(01:46:15):
in her life. So I meanthat could be one of the reasons why
they picked her, because that's whatshe's so known for. But again another
person who kind of picked herself upand you know, was able to you
know, continue and and do whatshe wanted to do. So a few
things I noticed about like just howthey were watching her. I loved how
the writers were kind of like cheeringeach other on and patting each other on

(01:46:39):
the back as Gordon was doing hisum like opening kind of conversation with Princess
Margaret, and then you could seeMidge was sitting with the female staff and
they were just kind of like whenwhen she started doing the weather skit,
they were like, you know,like like kind of cheering her on because
they knew that was her, thatwas her worse and it really means really

(01:47:00):
happy. Um. I loved theactor's delivery of the dry British humor.
Um I loved the little little dabat the you know, the the Boston
tea party. I thought it wasjust it was really a that was a
little sta It was really cute.This was Daniel Daniel Palladino. This is
nailing, so nailed it. Imean, this is exactly how this would

(01:47:23):
have gone in the sixties too,you know, I mean he oh yeah,
it was. It was really reallygood writing, all right. I
just wanted to I just wanted totake the Gordon Ford part out of it.
I just wanted to shut up.And you know, Okay, there's
something there's something about him that justangers me, Like the way he talks
as Gordon Fort not even not theactor like I've seen him in interviews.

(01:47:44):
He's a very sweet guy, youknow. But even still though he's got
like a he's got a thing abouthim where he's he's he's the kind of
guy that I dislike in real lifething. I'm sure, I'm sure that
he is a lovely person. Andit's horrible for me to make this generalization,
but like these kinds of guys thatare just so good looking, tall,
they have this it's Carrot's your typehone, Because like the sarcastic assholes that

(01:48:08):
are tall, dark and handsome,like oh, they're just and they're the
kinds of they're the kinds of guysthat don't like me because I'm like an
outspoken, crazy lesbian and I'm justlike, yeah, let's go out,
let's fight man, like I know, I will just get in like fight
like battles, like of the witwith these kind of guys, you know,
I don't know. Maybe it's becausethere's one guy in particular who is

(01:48:29):
very in my life who I didnot get along with that I worked with
very like Gordon looks a lot likeUm. This actor God Scott Scott,
thank you. He looks a lotlike Red. Scott Scots brilliantly plays assholes
like he is. I don't knowif you guys have seen him as Dan
Egan. That was another like Ihate Dan Dan Egan and Beep is a

(01:48:51):
despicable person, but read Scott madehim kind of charming, and I know
it was. It was well.The lead one of the female characters in
that show also has a hard timewith Dan's charm. But that's a tangent.
But read Scott is just excellent atportraying asshole. Yeah, he is

(01:49:15):
a pompous, good looking asshole,kind of like Um, what's his name?
From Dead to Me not Dead toMe where you're talking about James Smartsden.
Yes, but I love, butI love, I love. I
think he has a lot of likehe could play so many different characters,
but the character on Dead to Meit's similar to like that kind of like,
you know, yeah, pompous,pomp is rich ass. That's true.

(01:49:39):
I wouldn't. I will say Idid too. I really loved that
Midge was sitting there with all ofthe other women on staff watching it,
like that felt really special? Didthat? Moistien surely asked back, because
they're such a good lots and andI just like, oh, really really

(01:50:00):
an artist, a writer, butyeah, a permanent day pass you can
show up every day. She's like, who who was that again? Can
you just tell me who who thatwas? Because I would like to kill
them. And then she asked oneI forget which one she asked. It
wasn't rough, but she asked,like, however was delivered? It was
really funny. She was like gettingchummy laws. It was really good.

(01:50:21):
He's like, what are you insinuating? All right? Funny? It was
I was really happy with that,And you know what was nice about it?
It wasn't focused on Gordon. Itwas focused on Princess Margaret, like
that was her time to shine.It was Midge's time to shine, it
was the writer's time to shine.It was not about him. But then
but then cut to a second later, Gordon Boards are all about himself.

(01:50:46):
Yeah he is. He thinks it'sgoing to be the Emmy show. He
is like by people. He wasso happy, he was giddy. Mister
he was mister chuffy pants chuff.Gordon Board was chuffed as yes he was.
I just wanted to just take inthe credit for everyone else's work and
I just wanted to smack him anyway. I think, though, what was

(01:51:10):
really nice about this is that itgave that really kind of weird, awkward
meeting of Hetty Amadge. It waslike it was really like it was like,
and I don't know if it's becauseHetty knows Gordon is attracted to her
and there knows about or what Karahad mentioned, she's not stupid that maybe
he's probably both, or maybe thisis the woman that Gordon told me not

(01:51:34):
to have on Jack Parr. Likeyou know, she's realizing, oh,
she knows, connecting all these differentthings and we're going to find out.
So I love how I love howwe're running with this. I think I
think this is candy is I dotoo? I think I think it makes
sense. Yeah, right, LikeI just kind of clicked and I was
like I could see this, thiswould check out. Yeah, and if

(01:51:57):
we're wrong, we're wrong. Hettylike it's okay, So Gordon's first lady
writer. That's just what Midge islike, you know, okay, that's
great, thank you. And whenshe said when she said first lady writer,
and she said, and Midge islike all hopeful, like first of
many, I think, and Hettygoes, ha, yeah right, everything
will be different now. Yeah.And then and then she toasts with her

(01:52:18):
like she she's so she's so worldly. Yeah, she's so like a yeah,
don't get your hopes exactly exactly.So I was just gonna say,
like she is so self assured andjust like she knows who the fuck she
is. And Midge is a veryconfident woman, and Hetty makes her like

(01:52:40):
kind of look tiptoe and look alittle hesitant. Yeah yeah, So like
yeah, I mean I could seeit. I could see why she's intimidated
a little bit too. Yeah,she's quite intimidate, especially when she was
staring at her. It's like that, um yeah, yeah. So she
mentioned that the princess was please,and Midge is like quickly saying, oh,

(01:53:02):
yeah, you know, I cameup with the weather skit, but
the boys made it funny. Andthen this is where don't comes in,
and it's don't with an exclamation point. She wants you to take your credit.
The boys do that. You donot need to, you know,
continue you know this this thing wherewe're pushing the men up and not admitting

(01:53:24):
that it was your work. Umthat I just said it. The way
that she put it is so freakingtrue too, Like if the credit is
yours, take it. If it'snot, take it because that's what the
boys do. And I was justlike that is so like everybody can think
of examples of that in their ownlives. And I was just like,

(01:53:45):
fucking tell her, Hetty, likeI want that on a shirt too.
Yeah. You know you do groupprojects and you're like, oh, we
did as a team when you actuallydid all of the work. It's it's
really yeah, sometimes you have toown it and say it which yours,
so that way you to move forward. We Also, I'm just looking at
the because I have it playing onthe background. I'm looking at the scene

(01:54:08):
right now with Hetty and Midge,and just the way that they always put
Hetty in black and Midge is alwaysin like these bright bubbly pinks and everything
like there, I really do thinkthat they're highlighting the difference between these two
women. But yet these are twowomen that have been such a part of
like Susie's there's they have that Susieconnection, you know, which we'll get
to yeah about Susie, But Ijust wanted to point out like the stark

(01:54:29):
like difference between them, you know, yeah, visually, yeah, definitely.
And I mean this is where shereveals that she knows that Midge is
Susie's client. Like, this iswhere everything the answers are finally coming out
that they know each other. Hettyknows Susie, and not only does she
know Susie, but she calls herSusan. That was heavy. Well,
and I will say two one twothings about that exchange about Susie one class

(01:54:56):
of forty eight is when they apparentlywent to college together. And I was
like, okay, so Susie's age, like the Cott nudity with that is
just like shot to shit. Yeah, you have that confirmed now. And
when she said we were roommates,that kind of made me chuckle because that's
the whole like kind of wink wink, nudge nudge historical viewpoint of people who
were clearly like romantic partners like menwomen. It's like, oh they were

(01:55:20):
they were roommates because you couldn't acknowledgethat before and there were all of these
issues, and hearing Hetty say that, I was just like, I think
that is probably intentional, yeah,and layered oh totally, yeah, yeah
right, I knew people, andI knew people in like I don't know,
twenty years ago that said the samething. Oh that's my roommate.

(01:55:41):
Oh that's my partner, but notnot couple down here, like I one
of my like one of my friendslike has said that, like though that
was my roommate and is still closetedbecause of where we live. Yeah,
Hetty saying that, I was like, okay, wink wink, Yeah,
I get yeah, and I'm sureMidge may get it as well. And

(01:56:05):
I and I did you yeah,especially when she was like, oh,
yeah, I don't know if Mitchgets it. I don't know, yeah,
because she seemed like when she laterwent to Susie, it was just
like you know her, like whatare you doing? Like she didn't seem
at all like that was your girlfriend? Yeah, yeah, yeah, so
no, yeah, Midge. Thatapplies over Midge's had I'm pretty sure if

(01:56:27):
there's a connection, a deeper connectionromantically there, Like I don't think Midge
is picking up on it yet.I mean she has no reason too.
She hasn't known it together well andshe's just like sitting there thinking probably like
obviously hetty gut Princess Margaret for thisshow, Like and as soon as she
hears her say Susan, she's probablylike, oh shit, Like she knows

(01:56:49):
her. I should be able touse that. Yeah, and she knows
her from the past where she won'ttalk about so she really knows her.
She knows a lot more than maybeMidge knows about her. Something that she
said, And I think that thisis really where it pushed her to go
to Susie when she said, withSusan in your corner, I say,
you're going places, Cutie. ButSusie's not acting on it. It's like,

(01:57:13):
you know, this is where shefeels like, Okay, then I
need to do something, like Ineed to go act on it, because
obviously Susie is not, you know, being tenacious, she's not being the
fighter right now. She needs togo in and confront her right now.
Yeah. Yeah, I think thatthis is the thing that makes Midge wake
up and say, Okay, ifthis woman of such high influence is saying

(01:57:33):
such high praise about Susie. Theywere college roommates, there's no reason why
what the hell is Susie doing sleepingon this opportunity, you know, And
you know there's something about that.Hetty's way that she is with Midge is
like patronizing and condescending a little bit, but she doesn't seem to dislike her.

(01:57:53):
Nina Arianda is doing something very nuancedand very subtle. And I think
it's jealousy. I think it's jealousythat this is a girl, oh it
was close to Susie because she wantsto be close to Susie. She it's
like, even though I can't haveher, I don't want anyone else to
have her. Ea, right,you know, And it's not a good
look, it's not it's not agood Now, well, when we see
that later where Hetty brings it upSusie. Yeah, okay, so let's

(01:58:18):
getting the Susie stuff then, becausethat's where we're going anyway. Do we
have more to say about the thisthough? I have one? Well,
I don't know if anyone's interested in. Gordon's so excited to like beat Jack
Parr and everything, and he wastalking about the puppets that he had on
his show and the puppets he bringshe references are kuk La fran and Ali,

(01:58:39):
which is an early American television showusing puppets, and you know,
Wikipedia says it was created for children, but it was soon watched by more
adults than children. And I founda clip of it, and oh my
gosh, it's very watchable. Forsome reason, it's like not even that
exciting, but it's so watchable.I don't know it's it's it's really cute
and bizarre. If you're interested listeners, just you know YouTube Kugla brand and

(01:59:01):
Ali, and yeah, it's veryfunny. I love it. So as
we transition it to Susie and Dinah, we hear Dinah on the phone.
She is constantly cleaning up after Susie. She is softening the blow. She
knows how to work those angles.She knows how to keep her clients happy.
We know about all the gift basketsshe sends out to people. And

(01:59:23):
Dinah is so talented. She's quick, she's smooth, she's like as soon
as like James says something, shesays like a response right away, like
she is not going to allow thisto, like, you know, get
worse than it already is. Um, what Susie did was really shitty,
and I think we talked about thislast week a lot about what she did,

(01:59:43):
and Dinah calls her out, thankgoodness and thank good's to the point
where that's what I said out loud. I was like, yeah, like
the point where she basically said,if you don't fix this, I'm walking
too. And I'm like, okay, yeah, because I mean, like
what Susie does is she she's like, well, you know, you gotta
understand it's about Midge, and likeDonnie's like, yeah, I love Midge

(02:00:05):
too, but you shouldn't be takendown James just because of Midge. And
that is so true, Like it'sthey're they're not on the same pathway,
they're completely different people and they bothhave their own barriers to go over.
Midge is a woman, yeah,but James is a black man in the
sixties, and you know what,it's not that different now, still like

(02:00:27):
there's still issues. So I'm reallyglad that not only did Dinah speak up
for James, but also just ingeneral, like for herself, like like,
no, you gotta stop this shit. You gotta stop doing these things
and jeopardize people's careers in their livesbecause of your feelings. Because it's it's
what she's doing. It's not aboutMidge right now, there's something else.

(02:00:47):
It's like it's about hitting her aboutHetty. Yeah. So, um,
just a couple of things. Ithought. Yeah, Alfie Fuller killed it
this moment. I was so thiswas almost my most marvelous moment. Yeah,
it was really Susie made the commentabout James like basically having it handed

(02:01:09):
to him. I was just likeSusie. And then as soon as Dinah
started and I was like, Okay, good, they're actually you want him
try being black for a day.Yeah, Like thank goodness. She did.
She she killed that, she reallydid. And not only that,
like she says to James like youknow, um, you know, I'm
she was. She said that,you know, she was probably a communication.

(02:01:30):
She was probably high spoken it toeverybody wants to on wine, but
she's smoking, was not even fresh. I laughed so hard us and I
said, like what I what she'sdone is that she's like it. Not
only is um like she wants it. Sounds like James wanted to talk to
Susie. She's like, no,no, no, she's gonna come to
you. It's gonna come to youand apologize, take you out for soft

(02:01:51):
choked crabs, even though Susie's allergicand it sent him a fruit bas like
you're gonna eat those crabs, Susie, and you're gonna like it. She
said all these things, and likeSusie even says, like you know,
how much of that stuff cous,Like she doesn't realize how valuable at that
moment, Like what Dinah is doing. She's saving Susie's ass, she's saving

(02:02:12):
her from James walking, she's savingSusie's credibility, and she's making her you
know, go and fix this rightnow before you make a big mistake.
Or she was like, or elseI'll leave and you know you can't live
without me. It's like, oh, like every word she said in such
an in such a short amount oftime, Like there's this scene. This
scene did so much to fix myproblems that I had the last episode of

(02:02:33):
Susie. Yeah, I was like, men, well, thank you,
thank you. That Yeah, DanielPalladino was like a fixed, real quick,
good job. I did love howthe pigeons were still in the window
with the pigeon house. That mademe so happy. Did you have anything
else you wanted to add to that? I think it's, you know what,

(02:02:54):
Susie's gotta fix this. Sue's gotto fix a lot of things.
So now we go into station UM. I was very blown away by just
the cinematography, like how huge theymade it feel like just so like the
space is so wide, the ceilingsare like so like I like I felt

(02:03:16):
like I was in there, butI was like, oh my god.
And the fact that there was nota lot of people in there. I
had to laugh a little bit becauseit's fed stage. Yeah yeah, but
but it was the acoustics were likeI was like, this is and the
fact that they were like kind oflike meeting each other like like amostatic crossroads,
like here comes Susie back from Baltimoreand here comes Midge meeting her like

(02:03:39):
at that landing, and it's justlike right in our appropriate symbolism. Yeah,
for sure, definitely, like okay, yeah, and just just to
comment on like the cinematography is Iyeah, you don't notice it how this
show does that, but it putsyou the viewer in the room of wherever
you are every scene. It doesthis with the sounds. And I'm telling

(02:04:01):
you, you got to watch thisvideo of of Daniel Palladino talking about how
he does this, because you wouldnever think that's so much work and so
many layered ways of filming goes intocreating just one single scene. But yeah,
truly there's a reason why you feellike you're in that room because it's
not easy to do. And assomeone who's I live in New York and

(02:04:21):
I'm there, I'm at Grand Centrala lot. I've been there so much.
It's it's exactly that, Like I'venever watched a scene of television that
takes place in Grand Central that makesme gives me the feeling that I could
smell it, I was, Icould hear it, I could feel it.
Yeah, yeah, it was reallygood. So Mitch confronts Susie and

(02:04:42):
Susie you know, of course sixsiss an ambush Um. Susie's just spinning
lies. She's always on the defense. She it's it's I think that Susie
is like at this point that sheshe can't admit to Midge, like I
think, like even when they hadtheir confrontation in the synagogue, like when
Midge accuses her of not doing everythingshe could possibly do it, Susie just

(02:05:08):
can't figure out a way to tellher. She just could, you know,
makes up lies, Oh I cando this, I'm doing this,
I can let me do it.And Midge back then, you know,
you know, gave her that ultimatumlike you know, if if you knew
that my boss's very influential wife evena little bit, you should be fighting

(02:05:29):
for me. And and she begsher to fight for her or she doesn't
know what she's going to do.It was a beautifully acted scene, but
it's like they paralleled really well withthat synagogue scene, like they're both like
at this like point in their lives. Yes, and obviously you know Susie
must have did it because you knowshe didn't have to give that up.

(02:05:49):
But then of course back in theyou know, in the in the synagogue,
that was not the case. Idid love that line where you know
Susie's getting frustrated. She's like,what do you do about the Gordons and
the pets and all of the fuckingmen who run the world. And Midge
immediately says, you go around them, like you use whatever you can,

(02:06:13):
you stop it nothing. And whenshe's like, guess who taught me that?
I was like, Susie, remember, like bring back that tenacity?
Yes, yeah. And in allof the seasons of Marvelous missus Maisel,
Susie has never been stupid. Ihave seen we have seen Susie be shrewd,
smart, crafty and like getting intothe finding the back door and sneaking

(02:06:34):
up on people and knowing who tobother just the right amount, you know,
and and and this is how she'sgot to be so successful. And
I believed it. I was onboard. I'm like, Okay, this
is my Susie, this is whoSusie is. Yeah, And all I
gotta say is it's got to bereal, damn juicy whatever happened between her
and Hettie, because you gotta makethis make sense to me right now?
I don't want to hate Susie.I don't want to feel that this is

(02:06:56):
character inconsistency. But I'm really feelingthat this is inconsistency because I'm like,
Okay, let me, let meget this straight. She's willing to completely
throw James under the bus and disregardhis hard work and what he is,
what he really does deserve, notonly as a talented comedian, but as
a struggling black artist who's never goingto get a break. I mean,
it's so hard for him to comeup right now, like trying to break

(02:07:19):
into this industry dominated by rich whitemen, and she's gonna she's gonna throw
him under the bus in order toget Midge in the door first, but
then having a very clear connection toget Midge in that door, She's completely
resistant to the idea of confronting Hettyin order to help me. Please explain.
I mean, I think I needhelp. That's the thing. I

(02:07:40):
think Hetty, like, what dowe know about Susie. She doesn't mind
being alone, that's not her problem. She doesn't want to be seen as
insignificant. She doesn't want to feelsmall, and I think Hetty makes her
feel insignificant and small because she madeall of these promises to her, she
clearly was in love with her,and just left her, like, didn't

(02:08:03):
pursue any of that, just lefther to kind of deal with picking up
the pieces after Hetty broke her heart. And I think that it tells us
just how much Susie felt for her, where Midge is like kind of talking
about like how you know, shechased what's his face into the bath house

(02:08:26):
and was like hopping over Dixford,Yeah, James, and she's like,
I want you to hop over Dixfor me. And I think it just
tells us how how heartbroken Susie wasand how much that impacted her. And
I think that's also probably like obviouslyduring that time, it wasn't as you
know, as socially acceptable or whateverto be a gay woman. But I

(02:08:52):
think that Hetty's treatment of her isprobably also a big part of why Susie
doesn't talk about her past, doesn'twant to talk about her romantic life with
Midge. It makes me wonder ifshe ever even found anyone after Hetty,
or if that experience was just sohard for her that she shut down completely.
Yeah, And it can't be easyfor her to face that again,

(02:09:15):
like when she heard her voice,it really seemed like you know, and
that was the first episode it seemedthat was a ghost. Yeah, that
was definitely yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, I would say
that it is pretty consistent at leastwith the past seasons. Anytime Midge tried
to ask her something about her past, she's just no, no, no.
But I think that the thought oflosing Midge is I guess her last

(02:09:39):
job, but she really But I'mglad Midge pointed that out the fact that
what Susie did to get James thatjob was a lot, Yeah, a
lot. She did everything she possiblycould and you know her, I think
you brought this up earlier, sayinglike, I'll all ways know there's something

(02:10:01):
you could have done and you didn'tto her, and that's probably what finally
got her. She was like fine, yeah, because it's true, like
she's believes in Midge and it's herown kind of selfishness at not wanting to
use this connection that she has.Yeah, and now that Midge has seen

(02:10:22):
how powerful that connection is, she'snot going to let it go. And
I get it. Like from herpoint of view, she's like, this
was your freaking college roommate like,what are you doing here? How have
you not put it in a goodword for me? And yeah, understanding
how hard it actually is, youknow how? And Susie like like,
oh, you know, And Ithink I said this a couple episodes ago,

(02:10:45):
like, oh, but do youreally want this to be the way
your big break is? At mymanager or you know, pulled a full
string, a few strings, butit seems normal, Yes, like that
that's what managers do, that's whatthey that's their job. Yeah. I
think there's luck involved in anyone's success. Like you can be the most talented
person in the world, but ifyou aren't seen by the right people,

(02:11:09):
you don't have you know, theright connections, maybe you don't ever have
that sort of success. Oh yeah, it's all about connections, all about
the connections. So yeah, sothen so then we go to Yeah,
the last bit of the episode,well, Susie did the most difficult thing
that she possibly could do. Sheconfronts Hetty. And what I notice about

(02:11:33):
this scene is that Hetty is reallyhigh up in the seats looking down at
Susie and Susie who is so youknow, shorter and stature, and Hetty
is just like tall, like statuesque, you know, goddess and like you
know, like almost like Dorothy comingto the Wizard, Like it was so

(02:11:54):
hard for to do. It's sohard that the fact that freaking Hetty had
to say was this was hard foryou. Like I'm like, I was
just like, damn, that waskind of savage. That was really like,
it's pretty harsh, pretty harsh.And you know, Susie got it
out there. I need a favor. I need a favor for me.

(02:12:16):
I want you to talk to Gordonand you know, and and she just
gave her the fact she's ready.And then Hetty said, you believe in
this girl? Is it more thanthat? And you know, man,
I wanted more. I wanted moreof this, I really did. I
was like, this episode's only fiftytwo minutes. You couldn't have given it,

(02:12:37):
just like like that episode of Susanwhere we only had this very short,
little tiny interaction. We got toget more of this next time,
more of this. Their their connectionspretty you know, it's on fire.
It's like really there's a lot ofpassion going there. And you know,
I just thought about this, like, you know, her heartbreak was the
reason you know she couldn't at Hettyto help before, and you know she

(02:13:03):
doesn't want to repair that relationship withHetty. Remember you know she took her
she wanted to go out to eatand try to or go out for a
drink and just try to have thatrelationship. If she did it back then
in the episode of Susan, like, what would have been different from Midge?
Like could that have been her wayin that much earlier? So well,
we don't know what Gordon's good.That's true. I don't know.

(02:13:24):
I'm not holding my breath and I'malso not holding my breath that even if
Gordon says yes, I don't knowthat we're going to see it because the
Palladinos do this thing where they don'tshow like the biggest moments. They just
like, yep, you might getwe might get like a scene where Midge
just comes off stage and Susi's like, well, are you really killed anything
now? And it's like, butthe thing is is, I'm not.

(02:13:46):
I don't know. I'm not somuch. I'm really on board with the
fact that we this this season isso much about the parents and the family
dynamic and the characters. Yeah,we will be upset though if we don't
see because we've seen so little ofMidge's stand up, I feel like I
don't know. I'm not dying toknow about the big break as much as
some people are. I don't careabout Gordon Ford. I want to see

(02:14:07):
Carnegie though, like I want tosee the infamous Carnegie Hall night. I
want to. I want to.I want to hear her do her stand
up. We haven't had her duestand up since The Pirate Queen, which
was several episodes ago, and itjust I want more. And that was
very very little, miss it.Yeah, so I hope we get it.

(02:14:30):
We need it, We need tosend off, and we definitely need
to thank you in good night likewe need that. I know we haven't
heard a lot being carried away,but yeah, but I will say,
I do you think because when Iwas watching the exchange with Hetty and Susie
when she asked Susie if it's morethan that with Midge, I saw that

(02:14:54):
like kind of like you were saying, Jade as Hetty's jealousy coming out.
I know this is what happens whenI scroll Facebook and see little things popping
up like people were like of courseshe's in love with Midge, And I
was like, no, no,she's not. No, it's like that's
not the vibe platonic. She lovesher all, she loves us, but

(02:15:15):
I don't think it's she's romantic.It's like a familial like it's a family
type bond. But yeah, I'slike sisters. Yeah, it's like,
no, she's not in love withme, Like that is not And I
don't think that's like what they whatwe're talking about, non romantic soulmates,
like platonic soulmates. You know,that's totally what they are. They are
soul mats. They are together there, there's person there. Yeah yeah,

(02:15:39):
yeah, but it's like not romantic. But I was just like Hetty,
like Hetty wiz cold in that scene. Well, I don't know, I
have a feeling. I don't knowif that's the last thing that we get
between them, but it might be, Yeah, it might be anything else
that we want to say about thisbefore we get to listener feedback, because

(02:16:01):
I'm sure listen, but we havehave more to say about. Well,
we have to talk about when Hettysees Minge in the office, which is
almost there. Oh yeah, sobecause it was just like so connected.
But you know, Mitch walks in. She gives her purse a treaty,
which I thought was like, oh, does she always give her purse to
truaty? It seems like she must. But when she turned and saw Hetty

(02:16:24):
just staring at her again like this, like ooh, it's really like hard
look again not I don't. I'mlike there, there's there's a lot of
things going on there. They exchangeyour good mornings, and Mitch knows something
is up. Um. I lovethat we could hear the boys singing,
like, you know, it's avery it's like we need it might be
the last time we heard this song. Um. I did enjoy. Gordon

(02:16:48):
and Hetty's a little exchange about howGordon's mom wants them to come to Thanksgiving
it's been three years. Um.But when Hetty calls out Gordon rule and
says, you know, she wantsshe needs a favor, and she calls
him out and he's like, youknow, She's like, this is George's
role. I think it's like everythingwe would say like this is George's role

(02:17:09):
and automated his role and it's astupid rule. And I love that she
referenced the lottery and it took meback. I don't know what I read
that book, but again, traditionsthat are brought up for no reason and
people are hurt from it, Likepeople get stoned from traditions, people get
killed and executed from traditions. Youknow, like this is something we could

(02:17:31):
change, and he has a powerto change. And she knows it,
and he knows it, but he'sStubbord and even calls it like she's She's
like, you know, why thescreed? Why are you giving me this
long speech? And she just pointsit out like yeah, Midge is easy
on the eyes, and you know, I'm like, we're going there again,
So I gain. Is it jealousyor is it just kind of pointing

(02:17:52):
out like this is Gordon's favor maybeKara, but it's a paypack that must
be huge. I think I agreewith you. I wrote it back like
that she did something big for him, and I don't think it was.
I don't think it was Princess Margaret. I think that just happened to be,
you know, the same episode.Um yeah, I think that's just

(02:18:15):
like a Tuesday for for Heeddy.Like this is how I feel like Gordon
Ford is so successful. Clearly hehas a secret weapon. Clearly it's Heeddy
and everyone kind of Yeah. SoMitch gets this emergency phone call as Gordon
starts watching over her, and that'swhen, actually, you know what,
I do have to say. Theone thing that I do not I don't
hate about Gordon Ford is the factthat he very publicly congratulated it's this woman.

(02:18:39):
It's because of this because he's Iwas just about to be like,
yeah, and Gordon Ford just takesall the credit, doesn't he. But
no, he did give her,you know, he did make sure everyone
knew. Yeah, I guess,I guess. Good for you. Yeah,
and then you know, but thatwas hard, wasn't it. Shut
up? Good for you, Gordonfor not totally sucking for one second of

(02:19:01):
your life. Oh my god.So their kiss was weird, though,
I will say that. I wasjust like, oh, don't do that,
Yeah, don't. Yeah right.I was like, you're on hand
to her, sir, and theblonde lady, Oh gosh, leave her
alone. Yeah, she is notto join now. She's a god is

(02:19:22):
yes. So we we leave withwith um the cliffhanger. Um. I
really loved seeing the studio, likeyou to the office where it was like
over we're looking overhead, how bigit is, how busy it is,
and you see just Midge runs,so we know it's something more likely bad

(02:19:43):
and I love your prediction, Caratand then it goes to transitions to how
to Handle a Woman from Camelot.I'm like Midge's favorite music. Yeah yeah,
but uh that that, I'm like, what was the what was the
what was the musical? What wasthe number that Joel proposed to her?
And they obnoxiously well it wasn't.It wasn't a lusty month of May.

(02:20:05):
I can't remember. I have tolook it up, but but yeah,
and then and actually then it wentinto a song called Star by Steeler's Wheel.
I've never heard of it before,but but it was like both of
her interesting, like it's how tohandle a woman, like just love her.
But you know, I mean,if you know the story of Camelot
and you know whenever didn't really loveArthur and way Arthur treat and went to

(02:20:28):
Lancelot, like you know, it'sokay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
right, I know. It speaksto a lot of themes of the whole
season in like Midge's grand fact thatthat was that was anyway back back then
her favorite musical and MIAs changed shehas. I do like the I was
just thinking about the phone call.I do like the idea that it's Abe

(02:20:50):
with what they think is a heartattack. Yeah, and it's something serious
because we already went there with Moistand Moist and Shirley in the last episode.
It's not high enough steaks, Ifeel like, and I would love
to see a lovely scene between Abeand Midge with him telling her finally that

(02:21:11):
he's proud of her, because thatwould absolutely gut me and I am ready
for it. I've got it,tiss, she was ready, Tony Shaloub
take it away. Yeah, butso okay with that. I know that
some people have been speculating that thephone call might be about Lenny, but
I do think it'd be kind ofweird for them to all of a sudden
bring that up, and why wouldwhy would they call her? And also

(02:21:33):
why would they call her she wasn'tjust a girlfriend or I don't think it's
funny. I don't think that wouldmake a lot of sense him and plus
like, well, obviously they fudgetime because it's still nineteen sixty one,
and Princess Margaret didn't tour until nineteensixty five, and Lenny Bruce doesn't actually
die until nineteen sixty six. Butit just it wouldn't make sense to me

(02:21:56):
if it was Lenny, Like,why yeah, why would they call midget
work in her rush? It's gotto be immediate family, Yeah, it
has to be. Yeah, thatwould make sense. Oh, I see
so mad that it was a cliffhangerthough. I was just like, really,
like, I think I said something. I yelled out loud at my

(02:22:16):
TV. I was like, theshow doesn't do that very much, like
and to give a cliffhanger before thefinale. I was like, okay,
fine, yeah, I'll give youone path, all right, anything else
to say before we move on tolisten to feedback, because I can't wait
to see what our listeners have tosay. I seriously can't. It's like
Christmas morning on roback. I'm soexcited. Now I'm good. So all

(02:22:39):
right, I think that's it.And now before we get to our news
and listen to feedback, we willtake a short pause for these brief messages.
Remember, if you have feedback toshare, you can send us an
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(02:23:01):
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leave a comment there for us toread on our next episode. We also
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(02:23:24):
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on the feedback post as well.And when you submit feedback, if you
have any questions you want us toask Matilda Ziegis Zelda in our interview with

(02:23:46):
her, let us know, we'regoing to keep a list of those and
we're going to like pick the bestones. You know, you're if you
win, you'll know it by gettingyour question asked. So we definitely are
going to have like a segment forlistener feedback questions with her, So let
us know what you want to know, and all of this information along with
the links to all the articles we'regoing to mention for the news but we

(02:24:07):
found in the show notes of thispodcast. And as we've already said,
Perfectly Marvelous is a part of thePodcastker network podcast The Kirk. Can I
do that again? I like podcastwell and because you're turning noise, you're
turning British. Oh good, okay, And as we've already mentioned before,

(02:24:31):
Perfectly Marvelous is a part of thePodcastica network and we cover many more shows
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(02:24:52):
him a try. Yeah, andremember, if you want us to continue
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let us know by you know,add that in on your comments when you
write into us your feedback. It'sseriously Yeah, I don't know if you
guys want us to keep going.We want to maybe just try season one
and see how it goes. Wejust want to make sure that people will

(02:25:13):
actually listen to this podcast because wewould love to do it, which just
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only Murders in the Buildings, soyou know, if you want us to
do Mazel, let us know.And it is crucial that you guys keep
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(02:25:35):
just going to keep on posting allthe episodes here. So yeah, keep
downloading and keep subscribing and share thepodcast. Leave us a rating and a
review that really helps us wherever you'relistening to the podcast. And speaking of
Apple podcast reviews, so we gota review from Greg Gunther and he emailed

(02:25:56):
me that he was so sad tohear that his review did not get read.
And Greg, I apologize. Weapologize, babe. We were so
tired on that last episode we'd probablyjust here a little delirious. That's fine.
Yeah, so I wanted to readhis review first, but he left
us a five star review on ApplePodcast. Thank you, he said,

(02:26:16):
love your podcast. Great to hearyou guys talk about this awesome show.
Came to the show after listening toMurder Magnets. I enjoyed Jade's acting insights
as well as the perspectives of theother hosts. I'm looking forward to hearing
you guys talk about only Murders inthe building. I love that show as
well. Suggestion I would love tohear you ladies covered Ted Lasso. It's
such an amazingly well written and superblyacted show. I listened to several podcasts

(02:26:39):
about it, but I think youmight have some unique perspectives on it.
I appreciate the length of your podcastsand I love your friendly banter, so
keep it up. Thank you somuch. Oh my goodness. And I
will say I freaking love Ted Lasso. So yeah, I seriously, I
have not started an It's just oneof those things I never got. It's

(02:27:00):
my life. I think you wouldboth appreciate it. Definitely. Yeah,
I'm definitely. So many people havesaid you would Mega June and Ted Lasso.
Yeah. List So next up ouremails. Our first email is from
Denise Freedman, and she says perfectlymarvelous, ladies. First off, thank

(02:27:22):
you, I so enjoy your podcast. We're living each scene You're welcome.
Hearing your opinions and connections and fellowMasal fan thoughts about the show enriches the
experience. It really is the bestshow I have ever seen. I don't
really know. I pray now,It's like, I don't really know how
I will handle it being over.Please count me as a big yes to

(02:27:46):
your idea about sasons and podcasting.Yes, and please, I really I
would be thrilled to do that.So it's good to know that you're all
on board. This will be along email, so feel free to condense
as you'd like. In the lastWe're Long podcast, it goes well,

(02:28:09):
It's just appropriate. In the lastpodcast, there was a discussion about Rose
and Midge not having any emotionally substantiveconversations. What came to mind for me
was a raw and rare encounter betweenthem in season three, the scene just
after Benjamin finds Midge at the stageDeli. Midge confronts Rose about Benjamin,
and what follows is so honest andfull of rage and anger about having to

(02:28:33):
survive and change because of the whimsof a man. Although there was no
resolution, there was an acknowledgement fromRose about how similar their situations were that's
true. I completely forgot about thatscene. Yeah yeah, She goes on
to say, I usually giggle whenMidge distracts Rose with platitudes, but now
knowing Rose is nearing the end ofher life and Midge is still distracting her

(02:28:56):
makes me sad. By the way, one of my high school classmates played
the matchmaking commercial director, so Iwas geeking out. That's fantastic, Oh
my god, just as Jane wasknowing someone in that scene. A few
of the happier distractions from Midge werelast season after Rose is hypnotized, that
was hilarious and questions what happened myfavorite room was so good outside of the

(02:29:20):
theater, and this season, justbefore Zelda gets married, when she spills
the beans that Midge and Joel werehaving sex in Midge's bedroom, that was
good. When Rose remember when Zeldawas like to lose the boy who sneaks
out of your window? That ishard. When Rose looks at Midge to

(02:29:41):
discredit the story, Midge points toRose's wedding album and says, look,
Mama, how pretty you are hereor something like that, just as she
is doing during the match commercial shoot. That's true. Sadly, it speaks
to their continued lack of connection toone another. Hiding the truth and instead
choosing to bond over how to dress, what to b or poor Esther's forehead
is just sad to me. Asfar forward as these characters evolve in the

(02:30:05):
sixties, Rose and Midge's relationship staysstunted as if they were still in the
nineteen fifties. That is very true. It is very surface level, and
there's a lot of emphasis on imageand appearances. Unfortunately. I love how
the kitchen in the last is thelast place anyone looks the wiseman women can

(02:30:30):
be resourceful and yet are clueless withintheir own home. It's the last place
anyone noticed Rosa's Paris address. AndI suppose it is fitting that Zelda's book
also goes unnoticed. Poor Zelda,as she has a section of that book
and she's like, I put thegoal here in the section entitled the other
or would you say untouched in thekitchen, there's like an untouched in the

(02:30:52):
kitchen section. Gosh, that Estherplaying the piano without any instruction or audience
is a perfect embodiment, embodiment ofmarvelous missus masel. It speaks to brilliant
females in this series foraging into unknownterritory without support and acknowledgement of their gifts.
Abe's realization about how society sees women, and in particular, his own

(02:31:15):
shortcomings with Midge and Esther, wasmy favorite moment me too, the only
time Abe admits to being wrong,unless you count the semi apology of laying
his head on Rose. After theplay, I had a feeling Hetty would
be the link to Midge's breakout.The irony that it takes a woman to

(02:31:37):
help her is not lost on me. I just didn't think Midge would have
to be the one to push Susiein that direction. The Susie we saw
at the Testero steal is how Iprefer to think of her, not this
way. There are two things Idon't understand. One why Susie has to
be shamed into asking Hetty for helpwhen she will do just about anything else

(02:31:58):
for a client. And two,Gordon is so opposed to Midge appearing on
the show, and I think wetalked about the first one. Why Well,
I don't think that she was shamingno her. I mean, well
she was, maybe she was kindof trying to light a fire, like,
hey, you have this connection,use it. And also she did

(02:32:18):
say like, well you've you know, you hoped what was it? Hopped
over Dick's for James, James hopof her Dick you may or whatever she
said, she called her out whenSusie was yeah, right, Yeah,
she was calling her out for sure. I don't know that she was shaming
her. But when she said,is this how you want to get your
big break by getting a favor fromyour manager? Is that what you want
to say? And it's like,no one ever tells the truth when they're
asked that question on talk show.It makes up a story of how they

(02:32:41):
got their bring break. You willnever know because it's probably because they slept
with someone or new somewhere, andthat's always how it happened. Seriously,
that is how it happens. That'sfunny. Yeah, And she said I
don't think much of Joel asking Midgefor a drink. As we know later
she ends up marrying a number ofother men, although for some Rea and
I really want to know if they'recounting Jolt twice in the sixty minutes marriage

(02:33:03):
tally. Yeah, yeah, that'strue. I see Joel and Midge more
as confidence than husband and wife.Again, hoping the phone call that Rush
rushes Midge out of the Gordon FordShow is not an Abe or Rose health
related thing. You may not haveloved our discussion of that. Then I

(02:33:24):
guess we know Midge's breakout will appearin the next episode. Finally, the
moment we have all been waiting forTit's up. Mazie's tits upon you and
did a great email You have awaywith words. I really enjoyed that the
English major in me was happy withthem. It was really really well done.

(02:33:46):
Really lots of fulves on that allright, Next, we have an
email from Marcello. Hi everyone,I am so glad Our mutual friend Jessica
Jones recommended this podcast to me.You are all great hosts and very savvy
about entertainment. His Street and Jaye'simpressions of Rosa Zelda rst spot on.
Oh je, I just wanted toshare some thoughts about the final season.

(02:34:09):
This is the first time the Palladinosare going to be able to end the
show on their own terms. Theywere kicked off Gilmore Girls and butt Heads
was canceled, and I really wantthem to stick the landing, but I'm
worried. I feel like seasons onethrough four we're very steadily paced regarding the
climbing of the ladder for Midge andSusie, and this final season feels a
little haphazard. Suddenly we are beinggiven tons of information about the characters lives

(02:34:33):
from the sixties to the nineties.Susie suddenly has a halfway full as a
hallway full of aspiring artists. Midgehas a new job and a potential new
romantic interest. We're racing to thefinish line, and suddenly the kids matter.
Zelda has a storyline, as sheshould, that's my commentary. We
get a three episode divorce arc forfor the older Masles that goes nowhere.

(02:34:56):
May Alfie, and Lenny are allacts off the show pretty quickly in a
single episode, and in the middleof all this info being flung at us,
we get two severely long performances ofa musical about garbage. Okay,
hey, he'll be picking on mygarbage musical. I like dig which is
fun, but it takes up alot of real estate, and the pacing

(02:35:18):
of the show suddenly screeches to ahalt. That is the fair, and
that is the That isn't the onlyinstance of that. But I feel that
we are spending or we are speedingup and slowing down a lot and hardly
being given time to absorb all theinformation. We'll love to hear your thoughts
on all this. I won't commenton flashboards, but this email is too
wordy. It's too wordy already.Oh it's fine, Marcel, keep up

(02:35:41):
the great work. I will belistening. Yeah, the Palladinos have pacing
issues at times, I will definitely. I think. I think that that's
a general consensus, is that theseason has feels a little disjointed and has
face pace. It is problems,I guess, yeah, I mean,

(02:36:03):
yeah, I will. Why everyepisode does feel very different, like it
does not really feel like part ofa cohesive season long arc, even though
we're getting one, Like you candraw the line from the end of the
last season through this one. It'sjust not super It bounces a lot,
it goes back and board. Yeah, I feel that the Palladinos are being

(02:36:26):
very experimental with the season, butalso they have this thing that they do.
They did it on Gilmore Girls,but obviously Gilmore Girls was like network
television, the thing where storylines likesome characters for this week, the plot
device character, you know, likethey're only there to service the plot.
Yeah, and I do think thatthis show is a little bit guilty of
that as well, like the waythat they're using Susie, especially, she's

(02:36:48):
barely has a personality anymore. Wegot so much Susie in the beginning and
now it's like almost nothing, andwhat we do get of her, it's
like one color, one note,kind of like Joel. Yeah. Again,
we don't have a whole lot oftime, so there I appreciate them
spending the most time aside from Midge, with Abe. I very you're never
gonna hear me say turn off TonyShaloup. I mean never, like let

(02:37:11):
him act everything? Right, ifI could only watch one actor for the
rest of my life, like youcould do a lot worse than watching Tony
Shaloup. So um. But yeah, no, I do agree that sometimes
plots are introduced, like I wasvery interested in the Abe and Rose.
Um. Maybe Abe is going tocheat on Rose with this with this Penelope
Penelope. Yeah, that went nowhere, but you know it's not meant to

(02:37:35):
I guess it's just it was agreat little drama, the most funny.
Then don't Yeah, we don't havetime to finish up on everything, So
I get it. But in thatif they don't have time to finish up
on everything, I do kind ofwhich the Palladinos would like, take a
chill pillow sometime and stop giving usso much of what could be and then
ripping it away. And it's justbecause they jam pack these episodes with with

(02:37:56):
so much, you know, wellthe number of things that we have commented
on or even over the last coupleof seasons, like, oh, they've
got to follow up on this,I bet this is gonna end up leading
to something else. Half that doesn'tactually happen more than half of it.
So I am trying to go intothe finale with a little bit of grace

(02:38:16):
and just like you know, trynot to have that many expectations because yeah,
exactly, just enjoy. Yeah,yeah, okay, let's move on.
We can't talk too much now,But thank you March Marcello, thank
you so much. That was anexcellent email. The next email is from
Bill Funt. I would like tohear you talk about the grand Central scene.

(02:38:37):
First of all, there are somany instances right now, A couple,
a pair of people who won't talkabout the elephant in the room,
and if they just come clean witheach other, they could have a breakthrough.
Gordon and Midge, Hetty and Susie, Hetty and Gordon, and most
of all, Midge and Susie.I'm floored by the fact that once Midge
knew that Susie knew Hetty and couldonly and could see how awkward Susie was

(02:39:00):
about it, that conversation was entirely, oh, you know, Hetty ask
her to get Gordon to put meon the show. It would have behooved
Midge at that moment to say,Susie, what's going on here? Why
are you being so cryptic about this? And show some level of caring about
Susie's feelings. That could have beensuch a breakthrough for them, But no,
Midge made it entirely about her andwhat Susie should do for her.

(02:39:20):
We all know Midge is self absorbed, but that took it to a whole
new level. And I can't decideif the scene was written poorly or if
I just don't like the lack ofauthenticity between the two of them in that
scene. Bill, Bill good points, good points. I thought it was.
I did think it was pretty incharacter for Midge to push and push

(02:39:41):
and push and not really be ableto read the room and see how awkward
Susie was. And it's also incharacter for Susie to put that freaking wall
up. Yeah, but it's true, like it could have been like why
are you being so weird about that? Like just calling her out, like
why are you hesitating right? Like, yeah, well, this is the

(02:40:01):
thing I'm noticing, is that thefact that Midge, Midge's friend didn't tell
her something so huge didn't really factorit. It was that her manager like
that's how I feel about them now. They're they're they're all business, no
heart this season, you know,and it's I feel the lack of it.
But that's a little weird considering Midge'sanswer in the sixty Minutes interview,

(02:40:22):
like what happened? She was like, we tried to be friends and show
business, and we haven't really seenthat friendship this season. Now leading up
to that, I don't know,we've heard talk of their friendship and how
much they love each other, butit's like show don't tell you know anyway?
Thank you, Bill, that wasexcellent. That was I mean very

(02:40:43):
I didn't even think of the scenethat way until I just read that.
That is such a good point,a good perspective, because because none of
us made that point. I'm gladyou did. Thank you. Next up
is an email from Joanne Stire.She said, maybe I was expecting too
much from this episode. I wasdefinitely disappointed with the lack of storylines depictingclosure
from many of the characters. Unlessthe final episode is at least two hours

(02:41:07):
long, we may never know.I thought, we may never know.
So I thought this episode had alot of unnecessary filler. For example,
why did we have to have Midgevisit her college. It must have taken
up to ten minutes of useless banterother than just set up her don't message.
I've found no reason for it,and we still don't know what it

(02:41:28):
means anyway, unless she is clairvoyantand knew she would one day run into
missus Gordon Ford in a bar,who would then tell her, don't let
the men take credit, stand upfor yourself and give yourself the credit you
deserve. That's funny, I willsay, I think, yeah, I
could see why you did not thinkthe revelations that we got from that college

(02:41:50):
scene justified shaking that much time inthe episode. Yeah, that was the
other thing. Besides anytime Gordon Fordspeaks, um, I would like to
cut the If I had to cut, it would be it would be so
long at the luncheon. Yes,maybe, but also like that's part of

(02:42:11):
what we were saying, part ofwhat Daniel Palladino just does really well.
You know, so what if youdon't like that that flavor or that color,
like it sucks, but the peoplewho do really enjoyed it because it
was skillfully done. Yeah, that'strue, and it also needed wanted.
Sorry, it also wanted an excuseto showcase all those hats and bits because

(02:42:33):
I candy that was great. Idid enjoy Oh we had. She also
goes on to say, also,the scene in the restaurant with Abe and
his colleagues was excruciating and dull.Too little, too late, Babe,
hot take. But Joanne hot takesis that I still don't care for your
character. I don't mean to complainbecause this is still my all time favorite

(02:42:56):
show. I love everything about it. I'm holding faith the final episode will
leave us satisfied and happy. Idon't really have a marvelous moment, but
if I had to come up withone, it would be the scene with
Midge and I think that means Ithink she went to say hetty missus Gordon
Ford in the bar when she toldMidge she knew Susan. I thought,

(02:43:18):
here we go. Now we aregoing to get the goods on her and
Susie Susie's relationship. That didn't exactlyhappen, but it did give Midge an
inn to get on the Gordon FordShow. We are left hanging at the
end. What was that emergency phonecall Midge had to leave in a hurry
for. I'm thinking it's something withRose or Lenny. We will have to

(02:43:39):
wait and see. Thank you andgood night. Thank you, Joanne.
That was amazing. Hot tape.Hot tape. Oh yeah, okay.
I hope you're okay with the factthat we definitely disagreed about the ABC.
But that's okay. Maybe maybe shechanged her mind after listening to us talk
about it. Maybe let us knowso, Richard Politic writes in episode seven

(02:44:03):
is why I Love Maisel. Theclosing credits featuring Danny Stevens, who is
like Danny Thomas singing Nancy with alaughing face, a song composed by the
amazing Jimmy Van Houston, and lyricizea word not sure by one of the
funniest people ever, Phil Silvers,who wrote this song for Sinatra. Nancy
is about Nancy Sinatra. Van Houstonwrote many of Sinatra's best songs. He

(02:44:24):
wrote Come Fly with Me, Loveand Marriage and You Yeah, and using
his music illustrates how Amy and Danieltotally get the period. Finishing this episode
the way Thomas finished his episodes isspot on. This is why I watch
to hear songs only Amy and Danielwould use. In season one they use
Isn't in enough. This is froman Anthony Newley musical and one of my

(02:44:46):
favorite songs ever. Amy and Danielget it, and they get me.
Thanks guys, and this podcast getsme. Keep getting it. Thanks Richard.
Yes, oh, thank you Richard. Yeah. I definitely got it
more after watching it, after rewatchingthat ending scene. I got it more
after episode eight for sure. Iswhy I want to do a rewatch,

(02:45:07):
because I think we're going to pickup on so much oh going back in
Yeah, all right. The nextnext feedback is from Liz Todd. She
said, I'm so happy I foundyour podcast. I love it, and
you ladies keep me laughing and thinking, oh yeah, I agree with you
on seven and how Abe saved it. Yes. Overall, though I believe
in seven did nothing to advance theseries, especially since it's ending soon,

(02:45:31):
too soon. When I first startedlistening to Perfectly Marvelous, my thought was,
I apologize for this. These ladiestalk about these people like they are
real. It's fiction. Yes,that is the name of the game here
at Perfectly Marvelous. And putting thataside, I realized I'm the same.
My marvelous moment was when Abe foundhis granddaughter playing the piano. Yes,

(02:45:52):
we have known since episode one thatEsther was a genius, but the family,
other than Abe still hasn't noticed.My least marvelous, at least marvelous
moment overall is I miss Midge's earlystanding. The raw real Midge is history.
Also, this season has lacked abig standalone moment like when Susie eulogized

(02:46:13):
Nikki. Yes, which was myfavorite Susie moment, my favorite Susie moment
ever. Raw. Yeah, I'vewatched that scene at least ten times.
Oh good, for you. Goodacting. Always watched good acting. I've
watched that scene at least ten times, and nothing this season has come close.
Well, Abe, this episode can'tsay that anymore. We've been treating

(02:46:33):
We've been treated to their incompetence.Oh wait, sorry, you guys,
Yeah, you guys talked a lotabout the Masal's lack of life skills in
episode seven. We've been treated totheir incompetence all along. Remember when Midge
noticed the refrigerator light out and didn'tequate it to a real problem. That
was a misstep for sure. Yeah, that was the brisket guru couldn't put

(02:46:56):
that together. Poor Zelda. You'reso right. Yeah, yep, I'm
happy you're going to do only murdersin the building. It's fun, but
you'll have way less characters to talkabout to compare to Mazel. It's a
small cast and the characters are notmultilayered like we have with Mazel. White
Lotus would be a good break oneto break down. I agree, Yes,

(02:47:16):
season three, you can probably counton us jumping in there. Thanks,
thanks for all you do. Ican't imagine the amount of work that
must go into your broadcasts. Iwill keep listening tit's up. Liz,
Oh, Liz, thank you forthe appreciation, because yes, it does
take a whole shit ton of effortto do this podcast, but we love
it and it's because of you.It's because of emails like this. I

(02:47:37):
am not lying listeners when I saythat this email, these emails, all
of them, all of the feedback. So this is the reason, is
the reason we do it. Soplease keep your feedback coming, because then
the podcast will keep going. It'sa fuel. Next up, we have
a few comments and mentions of feedbackon Instagram. First is from Mama's now

(02:48:01):
six two two six. She says, hello, I think that in the
end, after the lime might andromance fades, yes, Midge and Joel
will end up together companionably. Weknow they're at least two or three more
marriages. Maybe they were reconciling justbefore the arrest. I think don't means
don't blow it, don't wait fordoors to open, and don't have any

(02:48:24):
regrets. Abe was amazing and genuinein his realization that, yes, sir,
these times are a change in Herecognized Miriam has evolved despite him and
his indifference to her as a female. Ps in direct contrast to the infantalizing
of the whole family in the lastepisode. As for Susie, her pain

(02:48:46):
was real when talking to Hetty,but her love for Midge and their romance
is stronger. Love the podcast Ournext one is also from Purple Anna Barry
eighty. She said, I feelthat it was a bit of a transition
episode to the last episode. Nottoo much happening, just positioning things for
the last There are a lot ofquestions unanswered. I do love this show.

(02:49:09):
I am worried that the phone callat the end of the episode is
that someone is ill and in thehospital. I hope it isn't Abe and
his realization at the dinner table andhis work colleagues about the amazing women and
his family isn't a pre death one. Well, we do know that he
makes it to nineteen seventy three,but it could be a scare, she
said. Or I hope it isn'ta pre death hallucination. I hope Abe

(02:49:33):
gets to tell Miriam he is proudof her. Either way, I think
it was so well written. Iagree all of these feedback comments are well
written. Gosh, guys, Iwish I want to stop and respond to
everything, but I got we gottakeep going. But thank you so excellent.
Kelly Harreton writes loves last night's episode, watch it twice work nights Abe's

(02:49:56):
respect from Mitch. Mami, Ti, I am so worried about why she
ran out at the end of GordonFord. We know it's not Rose or
Abe, maybe Moish, but theunexpected should be expected probably surely. Oh,
Kelly's just like going right down theline. I know, yeah,
right, I agree with you.It's I think it's someone in the immediate
family. M Yeah, no,I have you know my prediction. Wouldn't

(02:50:18):
it be cool if what one ofour predictions came true? That would mean
well, interdiction will come true.Yeah, Gail Nestle says, oh,
Gail again, here we go.Yeah, hey, Gail. Season five,
episode eight was a huge breakthrough andhonesty for Abe. Though we know
he continues to be obsessive, wealso know that he becomes more accepting of
his changing world. M Yes,a great episode. I thought Susie would

(02:50:41):
blackmail Hetty, but Hetty blackmail andGordon is better. Basal review. Thanks
for a great critique. Oh thankyou, Gail. All right, awesome,
got another vote for yes reviewing thatcomment about the blackmail was very smart
like that. All right, nowwe have another a voicemail from miss Melanie

(02:51:01):
Brown. Here she goes, Hi, guys, is Melanie um calling in
for feedback for Well, it's thepenultimate episode of Missus Magel. I'm really
not ready to take aodbye to thesecharacters, right. No, anyway,

(02:51:22):
I did want to just say thatI really appreciated comments that you guys made
about my voicemail last week. Iwas very emotional about it. Um,
you are amazing girl. Cool thatwe all had different perspectives when we take
you know, our life experiences andwith that and ummulan you know, and
it's just very very very cool,um that we can all see things a

(02:51:48):
little bit differently at this episode.You know, I think it should have
been called don't. I just Iknow that it's not you know exactly um
and amy type episode title, butdon't would have been really interesting and like,
you know, everyone like what doesthat mean? And that's how we

(02:52:09):
feel? Like what this don't mean? I think probably don't forget the way
you feel, don't stop being yourself, don't don't stop um, yeah,
go forward. It's just really interesting. She has absolutely no idea what she
wrote or what, you know,what it's been like ten years, what

(02:52:37):
what she meant by it? Now? Maybe it was don't marry shull.
I thought of that too, don'tpick a week man anyway. I just
I really did like this episode alot. I'm a huge fan of the
royal family and the crown and weird, but I am. And yeah,

(02:53:01):
so seeing Princess Margaret you know,on the show was really really fun and
the bit was hilarious, you know, abe, it was very feminine four
episode. Um, you know,women can get a lot of things done
if ben give them the chance.And I wish that women were able to
get things done and didn't the mento do it. And I think that,

(02:53:28):
ultimately is one thing that I findinteresting in perspective, is it's still
that way. Is a lot oftimes a woman still can't get anywhere unless
she follows along side of man.And maybe someday that'll change, Maybe for

(02:53:48):
my daughter it'll be different. Um. Is anyone else just really annoyed by
Headye? Like, I just marrythe way she condescendingly talked to Susie,
you know, you might there can'tbe any reason this woman just can't you
know, really respect this lady unlessshe's sleeping with her. You know,

(02:54:09):
I just think what is wrong withher? Like and you know, Susy
didn't dignify it with a response becauseit's not worthy of a response. Hetty,
get over yourself. I don't know. The whole Gordon and Hetty thing
is just bizarre to me. Hey, you're not alone there, but I

(02:54:30):
think she wears the pants in thatrelationship. Yes, whatever, that's not
that it's shocking. Um, thankyou, fourth co host. I was
gonna say that earlier about over Gordontoo, not that I was ever on
a Gordon train ever, but Iat least found him charismatic. Now I
just find him kind of I agree, girl, Yeah, come to the

(02:54:54):
team and the god hating team.Yeah, so what's the emergency? What
it made her leave so quickly?Michael's not here right now, but he
was saying that maybe maybe they willdeal with the Lenny Um situation a little
bit. They're playing with time anywayat this point, Um Lenney's situation,

(02:55:16):
I mean Lenny's death. And I'mkind of scared because I had this thought
that perhaps Moistien surely got an accidenton their way to the studio for a
taping. But we haven't heard anyright about anything about Sure, we haven't

(02:55:37):
seen them. They weren't there whenje So, I mean, I don't
know that they're long for this world. And I hate to say that about
them, but you know, Imean, it's gonna happen. It's gonna
happen, um right, predictions made. Yeah, I do not know how

(02:56:01):
they are going to wrap everything upthat we want to know in the last
episode. It's I mean, Iguess it's a twelve hour long episode.
We should like, Yeah, Iknow it's not. Though. I hope
you guys have a good week.And thanks fine, thank you. He's

(02:56:22):
like our fourth co host, sayingall the things that I forgot to say.
Thank you so much. Oh mygosh. If Surely and Moist get
them, will be sad. Idon't want that. They don't either.
We don't need that. I don'twant anybody. I don't want to want
anybody to die. Can yeah,stop with the cancer, stop with the
heart attacks, stop it. Idon't want to know. I Can't'll be

(02:56:43):
later in life, but it doesn'thave to be in the present. Nineteen
sixty one Yeah, maybe it's justAbe causing another disturbance at Ethan and Esther's
school. It's just like flipping out. Oh he could be actually come down
to the school. Abe. Ohman, maybe that's it. Come get

(02:57:03):
your dad. He's gone. Abeis like starting a riot at the school,
like throwing pencils and demanding pretzel sticksand Peter Putters. Now the leader
of the happy group, you know. Oh that would be he's got the
fairy wand he's the leader. No, hierarchy wouldn't make them happy. Oh
man, I see. I lovethese predictions. That's that's when I hope

(02:57:26):
comes true. Okay, um,all right, now we're gonna move on
to our Facebook feedback, which wehave so much of. So okay,
guys, can we all pull upFacebook and just do it that way because
it'll be easier than me. Soyeah, I just want to say,
listeners, we love Melanie's voice messagesso much because it feels like you're talking.
You know. I was like havinga conversation with Melanie just now and

(02:57:48):
it was so much fun. Pleaseleave us more voice messages. Be brave,
do it. You only have onemore chance on season five, though,
Leave us those voice messages. Okay, I'll stop asking now, I'll
shut up all right now, goingto do read our feedback from our Gaslight
Cafe group on Facebook. Jennifer Eileensaid, I love seeing a younger Moist
and Shirley meeting Midge for the firsttime. Abe's recognition that Midge is actually

(02:58:13):
quite extraordinary and how he has cometo realize that her ability to come back
from adversity had nothing to do withhim was really touching. His sadness about
not acknowledging and encouraging her as achild is a testimony about how all females
were treated in the fifties and sixties. Maybe he will become a champion of
the women's movement which is coming.I want to know. I could see

(02:58:35):
it why Susie was so against callingin a favor with Hetty. Was it
truly that she believes that Midge shouldnot take the shortcut to success or what
is the personal thing with Hetty thatmakes Susie not want to ask? Seriously?
Hoo did Midge get an emergency phonecall about and run out of the

(02:58:56):
office for Does it have to bewith Rose? We know that later on
Rose is not well or something withLenny, perhaps don't settle, give up,
lose yourself, or be ordinary.Hetty also says, don't twice.
I think I really disliked Midge inthe train station confrontation. I think that
there was an aha moment for Susiewhen Dinah was setting her straight. I

(02:59:22):
don't think that it ever occurred toSusie that the black experience of life in
the fifties and sixties was way differentthan the white experience because Susie didn't view
people through that lens. Susie definitelywas aware of class and gender differences,
but not so much racial differ racialdifferences, That's right. She has the
luxury of not having to think aboutthat. Yeah, said, are we

(02:59:45):
ever going to find out why Susie, a college graduate, was working at
the gaslight and living in her shittyapartment? I want to know that story.
Yes, I would love that.Yeah, there is one reply to
that too that I do want toread. Jennifer Eileen says, didn't Susie
mention in one or Sorry? DianeThompson responding to Jennifer Eileen, Diane said,
didn't Susie mention in one episode thatshe had a law degree and I'm

(03:00:09):
like, yep, and she didand we were all like what. And
then this episode, I was like, Susie went to Penbroke. That was
like that took me a minute.I was like, just so, I
just wasn't expecting her to have goneto Penbroke. I don't know something about
one. She didn't come from avery well off family or anything there.
So yeah, right right, yeah, that's why I'm like Penbroke, Damn

(03:00:30):
how she paid for Well, she'smust be really freaking smart. Maybe she's
a genius like esther because she's alsoable to play the piano as well,
so maybe maybe she got a scholarship. Yeah, yeah, all right.
So Troy Bailey says, I thinkthe phone call is Lenny either he has
gone in jail or back in town. There's there's a reply to that too

(03:00:52):
that I do want to read.So Tina Marie Hine says, I know
Lenny Bruce died in nineteen sixty six, but I think, but I really
think it will be that he diesin the finale, or, as it
has been suggested, is already dead. And this is what the phone call
at the end was about. Iguess I thought the phone call was the
invite to the show, but whoknows. Gordon Ford looked pretty angry when
he looked down at her. Maybeshe's getting fired. Elwell, I think

(03:01:15):
Lenny dying will be the impetus alongwith other things for Midge to knock it
out of the park in her acton Gordon Ford. Mm really really believing
that she's going to get on GordonBoard show there, Um, Elizabeth Ann
says, don't. Petty says ittwice to Midge when they meet at the
bar after the Princess Margaret's success,Hetty tells her not to give the guys

(03:01:39):
credit for her work. Don't.Yeah, Callen Decker says, off topic,
but I can't believe May just tookoff and literally hasn't mentioned her anymore
or anything. Yeah, Yeah,we talked about Yeah, you're right.
We feel you more of a moreof a real life situation than a show
that a character situation. Lauri Venizaor Zena said, I can't bear the

(03:02:03):
thought of saying goodbye to these charactersI know, and a lot of people
replied to that, Yeah, ElizabethElizabeth Ann said, I can't comprehend how
much I can't comprehend how much Iwant next Thursday to come and don't I'm
going to need to buy a dedicatedextra large box of tissues finale tissues.
Yes, and Debbie Burke Scott said, please tell me the last episode will

(03:02:26):
be two hours. I can't standthat it's all ending. We all like
long things, don't we? AndJeff when it's good, you know its
long? So that sounded dirty?Did I? Immediately? We were talking
about hopping over dicks today, soyou know, extra lot. I just
want to add that. Justine Suttonsaid it I here will be an hour

(03:02:48):
of fifteen minutes. I did checkIMDb and they did not announce the name
of the title yet or the length. So I guess we'll find out.
Where are you getting these where areyou nating these things? Tell us?
Do you know something we don't know? Secret sources? Share your Jessie.
Christine Laburn says Abe was never abad guy, just got stuck in his

(03:03:09):
previous notions. Yeah. Jane GreenbergMiller says, I was so touched by
Abe's revelations about his children. Hefinally got it. Yes, I think
hope that Midge gets her big breakon Gordon's show at his wife's urging.
I think there is some history betweenSusie and Hetty. I'm sad knowing that
Lenny doesn't have much longer to go, and so curious about how or if

(03:03:33):
it will be addressed. Yes,and I hope Midge and Joel get back
together, but we've already heard therewere four husbands, and where, if
at all, does he fit inquestion? Bass Bison said, I believe
the phone call is about wrote.I think we need to do some talies.
I know Julia Wooster says Susie.In reference to Susie, I think

(03:03:58):
she's learning that if she's going tobe manager, she has to keep her
emotions out of the equation. Theline from The Godfather comes to mind.
It's not personal, it's strictly business. Dynam Midge get it. Susie is
learning. That's a good point.Yeah, good point. Connie Freese Pasuma,
very cool name, Connie Fries Passuma. I teared up when Midge repeated

(03:04:18):
that Lenny told her, when Midgerepeated what Lenny told her about comedy in
the pilot, and I think shereally understands that now. So when her
friend treated it like it was justa phase while she waited around for the
next husband. It made it kindof sink in. One thing I haven't
seen mentioned. If Moish and Shirleyare going to the Gordon Ford Show every
night and break is on the show, then maybe Moish will finally see that

(03:04:41):
she's my love, that I lovethat. I hope. So that would
be great if they're such great laughers. Yeah, finally get it. And
Justine Sutton did say she responded,um, She said, I expect something
will happen with them there when she'son the show, maybe start maybe starting
out being disruptive and then actually realizingthat she's funny. That's a good point.

(03:05:03):
Justine Mary Cooper said, I watchedthe episode again and I enjoyed it
more the second time. Weird,but I think this was one of the
best episodes. I okay too,I actually really super not funny, but
I really agree this could be theiremmy. I really appreciated those those quiet
conversations and in the character development.I do understand though that some people could

(03:05:28):
have found the Luncheon Lady junch andstuff grading. Yes, because it was
very It was a lot, itwas a lot of fun. It was
intentionally grading, but that doesn't makeit in Yeah, it's grating. Yeah,
yeah, it's grating in a waythat I enjoyed. But if you
don't and I get it, likeI have things like Gordon Forward. You
know, maybe is this your GordonForward? Guys, you could be honest.

(03:05:50):
We all have our Gordon Forwards,don't we yes. Sarah Mason Waldon
says, I think don't means don'tbecome missus mazel. Oh, I'm interesting.
Oh And Sarah also said I wasafraid the phone call is that Abe
did something drastic in his devotion.But I'm hoping it is Lenny needing to
be bailed out. Man. Everyone'sthinking is Lenny. Yeah. I feel

(03:06:13):
like if there's Lenny needing to bebailed out, Midge would run away laughing
or something mm hmm instead of urI don't know. Yeah, she would
run away like Doris Day and tossher hat in the air. He needs
me what? No, I don'tthink so well. Also, like Lenny
is not the kind of person thatcalls with good news. Yeah, you

(03:06:35):
know what I mean. He's thekind of he's the kind of guy that
you don't necessarily want to get aphone call from because it means he has
and he has not, or atleast they haven't shown us. He has
not reached out since the airport scene. Yeah, which was dramatic. Oh
yeah, oh, I predicted that. I predict that if we see Lenny
again, it will be in aflashback, lash forward, yeah, flash

(03:06:56):
something. See, we're all allabout the flash in here at the Mazel,
getting to like perfectly marvelous after darkwith all this, Yeah, welcome
to our blue set. Sit back, relax, and put yourself a glass
of acid. Man. Oh god, Okay. Debbie Sheffist said I would

(03:07:22):
not be mad if Midge and Joelwind up together, but I am not
really sure that will happen. Ithink her don't message to her future self
was don't marry Joel. Tony Shalhoubhas to be one of the finest actors
on the planet. His regret andsadness about not recognizing his own daughter for

(03:07:45):
who she is and not nurturing herenough growing up was palpable. I think
we have gotten to see so manymore layers of Susie this season, and
I love it. I also ishappy about the conversation with Dinah. Susie
needed to see things from a differentperspective. I think Gordon will let Midge
be on the show, but I'mvery curious as to why she has such

(03:08:07):
power over him. M I wonder, do you mean Midge or Heavy?
Yeah, yeah, either one.Probably no, probably because you owe me,
you know. The phone call atthe end has me stumped. It's
too soon to be Lenny's death.I think we're in nineteen sixty three at
this point. I think this threwpeople off because I never heard them refer

(03:08:28):
to it as a ten year reunion. It was just like a lady's lie,
Midge says. Midge says, promisedme it won't be another ten years
before we try to kill each otherregards or something. Okay, So but
I was like, I was like, it's eight years though. This is
a right because I can do.But that was a little bit of math
because that was confusing because it it'slike no time has passed otherwise, like

(03:08:50):
obviously Abe just found or where Idon't know, Well, maybe it's supposed
to be nineteen sixty three and Abehasn't just found out about Esther, although
it seemed like get but Esther.Esther looks the same age as she did
one No, no, yeah,you guys, remember after no, No,
Remember the Susie scene, Dinah justhad gotten like you just said what

(03:09:11):
to James Yea said no, yousaid it's not your turn, you know,
like Dinah would have heard of that. That's why I was so confused
as to what I was wondering ifthere was a time jump before then.
I understand what you were saying,Jays, but I'm wondering if there was
like a time jump like last episodeor something. Oh yeah, yeah,

(03:09:31):
that we missed. I don't.I don't think so I have to look
at that because it's getting it's gettingmuddy. Yeah. Well, and they've
already the timing of has been alittle out of whack. But as she
said, I think we're in nineteensixty three. At this point, we
know Avan Rose, We're still alivein nineteen seventy three. It could be

(03:09:52):
one of Joel's parents dying, ormaybe Susie having a meltdown after having to
ask Hetty for a favor. Ilike that possibility too interesting. By the
way, Nina Arianda is a wonderfulactress. Yes, she is great choice
for the role. I remember seeingher years ago on Broadway and Venus and
Yours. Yeah, there Debbie.Debbie, we might have been in the

(03:10:16):
same theater, babe, because Iwent to see that place several times.
Yes, that's when I fell inlove with her, and she said and
she blew me away. Yes,Debbie. Oh, let's be friends,
Debbie. Yes, that was sowell, Yes it was Tina Marie Hinz
says, I'm a little put offthat Midge is now getting her break due
to a favor Susie is calling infrom someone who's clearly an old lover from

(03:10:39):
college. If mine didn't want toinvite, all right, If Midge didn't
want to didn't want the invite toperform based on sexual favors, how is
this favor from Hetty any different?I think we're going to needs to see
a flashback for Susie and Hetty,I agree, in order to get a
picture um to the nature of theirfriendship. The favor doesn't make sense.

(03:11:00):
I've had liked Teddy to recommend Midgeon our own, perhaps after seeing her
with a group of women at theWalford. I'm not real happy that this
is how Midge is getting her break. Then again, maybe that's what the
whole dope comment is about. Don'tdeny yourself the credit and don't create the
impossible standards that prevent you from takingcredit. Even when it's not completely based
on perfect virtue, it's still somethingyou achieved as MESSI it is, Tina.

(03:11:24):
I agree with you. I agreewith you a lot. Yes,
yeah, that was excellent. Maybeyeah that don't comment any possibilities, And
then Tina Marie also says, Ireally don't think we will see anyone any
one of them die except for LennyBruce. These characters are too priceless,
and I know it's not likely thatthere would be a spinoff, but it's

(03:11:45):
very stupid to kill off any ofthese incredible characters and actors. I always
thought that the chemistry between Rose andSusie was some of the funniest on the
show. I always hope that wewould see Rosen action at Susie's offices.
Yes, I like, oh moreRosen Susie. It's more Susie with other
people, where this Susie is alwaysalone. I don't know. I kind
of wish they would have opted outfor that rather than the humor with Zelda.

(03:12:07):
Well, I wouldn't sacrifice Zelda.I would sacrifice, And then she
also says, as odd and frustratingas it was to see even more new
characters. I really loved this episodeand liked that Abe had his awakening regarding
Midge and in this episode rather thanthe finale. Well, I'm sure there'll
be more in the finale. Atfirst, I was frustrated Midge was going

(03:12:30):
to see her friends from college ofall times to be diverted. Yes,
I know, but the fact thatthat scene ties into Midge's ideas about what
it means to have a relationship withold college friends. She obviously assumed Susie's
relationship with Hetty was as uncomplicated asher own with Kiki. Yeah, I
like that's true. I am justwondering how we will ever find out how

(03:12:52):
Midge will feel when she learns thefavor is more complicated than she realizes.
There's not going to be any time. Then again, perhaps it will come
to an end in the very endwhen we see Midge and Susie reconcile.
That will have to be the finalescene. I would think, Yes,
we all know, so, Ithink, so let's see. Jane Letcher
said, I found the reunion atmidges Old College very uncomfortable the second time

(03:13:16):
I watched I fast forwarded through mostof it. They gain I love it
takes, I love Jane. Theygave off mean girl vibes, Yes they
did sometimes that maybe cringe and rememberbeing on the other end of those barbs.
Yeah, Jim not no, no, they're right, yep. I
feel they were mean, not foreverybody. And you know what they actually

(03:13:39):
um when they were starting to insultwho was at Kiki about mister Day and
like, oh he was kissing him, and well she should be they've been
married for eight years. And thenthey're like, oh, like you know,
like put them in their place.Yeah, yeah, right, alright,
so bitches fucking bitches. Step beCool says maybe the don't has something

(03:14:01):
to do with the advice Abe gaveMidge when she went to college, don't
pick a weak man, Stephanie readingmy mind. This is mentioned in one
of the very first episodes of seasonone, Lily Jang, I think don't
means don't settle, don't sell yourselfshort. Midge realizes this chapter is not
good enough. It's not something totell your grandkids about. She knows she

(03:14:24):
has what it takes, she wantsto breakthrough live up to her potential.
It is not a common women path. It's not a common path women knew
they could take in the fifties andsixties. The first episode, Midge doing
everything to prop of Joel. Yes, indeed, so she insists that Susie
makes the move, takes the risks, asks Hetty for a chance on the
show. Yes, nicely, saidLily. Francisca Mure says, I love

(03:14:50):
that Abe was very philosophical about Miriam, realizing that the girls, his daughter
and granddaughter are his true legacy.Indeed, I love it all right,
so t says, I think Joelhas done everything to redeem himself. They
say Midget had four marriages. Weknow she married Joel twice. She isn't
wearing she is not wearing a weddingring when she visits Joel and Jail.

(03:15:13):
She did not marry Philip, whowere the other two marriages too. I'm
thinking this important philone call will bringthem together again. But Joel is a
flirt. Can I can I saysomething about the marriage thing real quick?
Because I keep I think it keepscoming up where people are wondering about her
marriages. But watching that sixty minutessegment Simon like four times, yeah,

(03:15:35):
like because they say she was marriedfour times, and we see the flash
pictures of Paul Simon, then RobertEvans, then Quincy Jones, So I
think they are counting Joel as oneand then the other celebrities of ye who
are well yes, and then wesee Paul Simon, Robert Evans, and

(03:15:56):
Quincy Jones. So I think theytold us to her husbands were right,
Yeah, we just I think sotoo, because then yeah, just the
writer what's his name? Who wasit? Oh? Oh Philip Roth?
Yeah, yeah, Philip Roth wasan almost I do with Joel Gray.
Joel Gray was an almost husband,yes, which is fantastic. But yeah,

(03:16:20):
I do think people, I dosee people speculating about her marriage is
a lot, and I really dothink that they that's what that was intended
in that sixty minute segment because wewere shown yet it's stuff like that too
with the Palladinos that a trained Palladinowatcher knows not to read too far into
something like that, like don't gotoo far down that rabbit hole. It
was just a clever writing thing,like it was just you know, they

(03:16:41):
told us immediately who her husband's were. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
sorry, Ok, right, that'sokay. He adds about Abe,
um, it was an amazing performance. I actually had predicted this revelation after
Esther revealed her town on the piano. Uh. She also adds about Susie
that she is doing what she hasto do. It's the way things were.

(03:17:01):
Don't forget it was Harry Drake thatintroduced Midge to Frank and Nick Frank
and Nicky, Yeah, yeah,introduced them. They were all connected in
one way or another. When thepoint of the brand Mare was don't just
as Abe had his revelation, Midgewill have a revelation of her own.
They will take her back to thatslip of paper that says don't maybe means

(03:17:22):
don't mess us up. Mitche's hasa way of messing things up by opening
up her big mouth. Uh huh. It's probably most likely more empowering.
Don't let anything stop you. Herpredictions were, Gordon will do what Hetty
wants. This is, after all, the marriage of convenience. Oh,
this is after all a marriage ofconvenience. The convenience for Hetty up is

(03:17:43):
that she gets to appear to bestraight and not gay. The convenience for
Gordon is that Hetty helped launch hiscareer and has him by a short,
short and curly the short curl allright, Her prediction for the phone call
is important, That is what thereception said. Maybe it's not so much
of an emergency. It could besimple. Ethan have him broken his arm

(03:18:07):
walking in circles in his happy place, joea Midge meet up at the hospital,
both again or happy thoughts about howmuch they love each other. I
actually hope it's that. That'd benice. Yeah, I'm loving these.
I'm loving these, these predictions thatare that don't involve Abe having a heart
attack or dying. That makes himtoo. If Ethan breaks his arm walking

(03:18:28):
in circles, I would be rightbecause Abe like pushed him or something like
Abe wanted to have the wand ohmy god, and Jennifer, you walk
in, You walk into the sceneand Abe and and Ethan are both sitting
there in the hospital and like littlematching casts be amazing, outing like please

(03:18:48):
let it be that, Jennifer.Eileen said, I don't want Midge and
Joel together anymore. That ship hassailed. They're great as friends and co
parents said the ash back to Pennypancemented that me Jennifer Penny exactly. You're
reading Penny that pattress like everybody,but but Jennifer, you're reading my notes.

(03:19:13):
Bab I said that exact thing thatPenny pan flashback made me go,
yeah, nope at all like him, scoundrel. Excellent, excellent. Okay,
now the next post from Gaslight Group. All right, So, Rebecca
Taylor says, I love the realthe realization that came from Abe's realization and

(03:19:35):
for Midge as she walked away fromher sorority knowing that she was different and
this wasn't just a chapter. Anice touch from Hetty later saying, don't
when Midge was minimizing herself and herachievements, Leon and Joe. I really
loved Abe's realization about the different waysthat he treated his children because of their
gender. I think Joel has a. Joel as a character overall has really

(03:19:56):
redeemed himself through the series. Okay, opposite a, I think I actually
think the gender analysis in this episodecould have been stronger if he had had
some kind of realization about his privilege. Yes to pivot and pursue history versus
Midge's uphill battle to work at all, let alone be in comedy. Yeah,
That's very true. That was reallywhy May chose to have an abortion

(03:20:16):
and leave, because she wanted tobe a doctor and knew she couldn't do
that and be a mother. I'malso frustrated it took so long for Susie's
sexuality and gender identity to get somespace in the narrative. In previous seasons,
She's just been the butt of theterrible Is she even a woman?
Joe I hated though, Yeah,Roll's eyes emoji. Yeah. Temporary characters

(03:20:37):
like Shy Baldwin had more depth inthat way, so it was overdue for
Susie. Yes, indeed, bygood one. Leanna, I'll go to
the top, missy Dot said.I think Joel is just feeling melancholy since
May left him. The rejection mightbe triggering past mistakes. Just the thought,

(03:20:58):
Yeah, Mary Cooper says. Inthe scene in the Principal's office,
when both he and Midge were reminiscing, Joel flashed back to Penny Penny Pan.
He was reliving the worst mistake ofhis life, and he was quite
sad that he screwed up, screwedup messing around with Penny. Yeah,
he screwed up big time around withbig time with that dirty penny tramp tramp

(03:21:22):
Haiti is a tramp Okay. AlexisVaxman says, I listened to you guys
in the car on my way towork. I love listening to your review.
Super fun. Yes, Hi,Alexas love you. Drive carefully,
Drive carefully, Yes, look bothways before he crossed the street. The
next one we have is from MarcellaMaricella Gomez that I find it interesting that

(03:21:46):
we find and get to see growthfrom Abe and Rose and Joel's parents kind
of just stay where they are nomatter what's going on, even their separation.
It's as if the divorce emulated thestruggles placed on women and their roll
shift in society and with the men, it does not have the same consequence
or effect. It's beautiful to seehis appreciation and enlightenment of the women in

(03:22:09):
his life that he questions how muchmore they could would have become with more
love, help, recognition, andrespect. Even bigger of him to share
in the revelation, to help stirthe thoughts and hearts of those around him
for betterment. Joel, his egogot in the way. Midge was always
dynamo, but she always stood byhim, believed in him, truly loves

(03:22:33):
him. Any chance they had toget back together, he was the one
to pump the brakes as his egocouldn't handle it and stayed away, but
still respected her path while trying tocarve his own and garner his own rightful
spotlight. Susie, they did phenomenal. She is who she is and they
captured it great. With the roastshe knew, she delved in shady stuff,

(03:22:54):
was unapologetic. She did what shehad to for her and her clients.
Her heart though, geez. Ilove how they humanize and show her
humble and caring and ling Laura Lordand loyal nature with Midge Harry with possible
betrayal, with being by his deathbed, and especially saying I'm here Dad.

(03:23:18):
I think those were the words herresponding to Midge's video message and calling right
away and the wedding. I'm sorry, my dog is crying and Midge,
you forgot to say Midge. She'slike, I love how Yeah, he's
like has loyal, caring nature withall these people, Yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. Riley Tweedie hold on, okay, Hetty equals intrigue. Susie

(03:23:45):
did right by Midge by asking Hettywas awesome to advise Midge and did so
self serving and as a solidarity sistermoment. Karin Gordon are obviously in their
own understanding. But if she closedit to him in that manner Midge being
on the show, it's because sheknows him better than anyone, and he
called out the difference. Honestly thinkhe personally dislikes and frowns upon spotlight sharing

(03:24:11):
and hid behind the rule as it'shis show. Reunion also did what the
roast did. It's solidified that Midgehas always been Midge. She set her
own path and hearing her friends furthersolidified her goal to go further and gave
her more fuel to her fire.I'm sorry, guys, my dog also

(03:24:33):
really wants to talk about Marvel.Your dog is not happy right now.
He's just like staring up at mefrom the floor crying. That was excellent,
Marceilla. That was so packed ofyes. I mean I agree with
like everything that she's saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't put

(03:24:54):
it better myself. All right,So David Sailor says, I think Hetty
hold Gordon to put her on theshow without actually telling him when he asks,
if this is how this is goingto play out, She said,
without looking at him. I reallyappreciate this, really I do. Yeah,
good point, Mark, David said, Joel has remained true to Midge

(03:25:16):
and she to him. Joel waswilling to go without. Joel was willing
to go without to provide it forMidge and the children at the expense of
his own happiness. Yes, Midgeremained true to Joel throughout his time in
prison. They are soulmates. Yousaid it, Mark, That's exactly what
we said, soulmates, David Sailorsaid after Abe says that his daughter is

(03:25:39):
a remarkable person and that he doesn'tthink he has ever said that to her,
then goes silent as the others discussedthe menu. I think the phone
call is from him telling her heneeds to talk to her right away.
That would be classic, Abe,classic. A true and Yeah, responded

(03:26:01):
to that your theory is my favoritetheory yet. Yeah, actually, wellite,
my favorite theory would be a goingto even school, getting in that
happy group. I really want tosee it, all right, gee,
Daniel Brown says, I notice alittle inconsistency in the writing with this week's
episode. In the beginning before Mineand Joel split, Zella worked for the
Wiseman's, not the Masals. Ithas assumed that Mitche did her own housework.

(03:26:26):
In episode seven, both Midge andher parents act as acted as if
they had no clue how to doeven the simplest household tasks. In episode
eight, Mitch not only knew everythingthat there was to know about the vacuum
cleaner that she won, she proceededto use it on the floor in her
former dorm room. I noticed thattoo. That is very very true.
That is very true. Yeah,yeah, yeah, it's kind of just

(03:26:52):
whatever's funny. Throw it in thescript. Doesn't necessarily have to make sense.
But good call, Daniel, getDaniel. Yes, good call.
But Brittany Anne Hardy said, Ilove how they showed Joel hurting and regretting
his decision to treat treat damn.I'm tired. Uh. I love how
they showed Joel hurting and regretting hisdecision to cheat on Midge. They are

(03:27:13):
truly the loves of each other's lives. Yep, I'm saying it. We're
all thinking it. See keep upthe hack hip. Kelly Sparks Goat said,
can we discuss why the fuck theribbon on it just blue hat is
upside down? Okay, this thishat upside down bow thing is not my

(03:27:35):
favorite sixties trend. The upside downbow on the hot thing is weird to
me. I am not a fan. I was not actually a fan of
any of the costumes in a waythat like I wanted to wear any of
them. You know, none ofthese sixties costumes were doing it for me
in the luncheon, the Ladies luncheon. I think that they were beautiful as
pieces of art of the sixties,of beautiful, you know, totally authentic,

(03:28:00):
like candy like costuming. Yes theywere, they were super cool,
but I would not want to wearany of them. And that upside down
bow is like, it's so bad. Everyone in those kind of hats looks
like they're fine. You know.It's just weird and it makes it what
are you trying to beat Shirley Temple. It's like weird. So I agree,
yeah, it was on purpose,but it's not a good not a

(03:28:20):
good trip. And then Annette deFelice Gavin says, I do not want
Midge and Joel to end up together. Takes takes, Oh my gosh.
Okay, So that was all thefeedback. Sorry, guys, we're getting
a little tired. We have toread it all though. It's also good.
Thank you so much listeners for leavingyour feedback, especially everyone who wrote

(03:28:41):
emails. Melanie for that voicemail.You know, I love it, and
yeah, keep keep it coming,guys. We got one more episode.
Goo okay. So now onto ournews section. We have just a couple
of links for you guys. Oneis an article the Marvelous Missus Masel Tony
Shaloub on the real life Parallels ofabes Epiphany about Midge. That is the
best article I on the Hollywood Reporterthat I came across, where you know,

(03:29:05):
Tony Schaleub talks about what it was, what it was like for him.
He has personal connections because he hasdaughters that are almost like Midge's age,
so it's really moving to hear whathe has to say. I know.
There's a couple of other articles aboutTony Schaleub and he what he says
about the ending, and then allthe other links I think we already mentioned.

(03:29:26):
So with that, it is timeto bring her, bring her on
home, ladies. I have hada marvelous time talking with you, and
thank you, as always, mydear darling, lovable listeners, thank you
for joining us. Come back nextweek when we'll be covering season five,
episode nine, the series finale ofthe marvelous Oh gosh, who oh my

(03:29:48):
goodness. I can't here leave it. Here you go. I'm Kara,
I'm Erica, and I'm Jade.Thank you, good night,

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