Beyond the Mic: Decoding the Secrets to Exceptional Podcast Guesting and Direct-Response Marketing

Marketing expert John Dwyer recently joined KOP for an in-depth discussion on what elevates a podcast guest from good to great.

John delved into his marketing philosophy, which centers on direct-response strategies designed to maximize sales for small to medium-sized businesses.

Key effective strategies highlighted included the Facebook contest blueprint, the use of incentivized promotions like the radio station scratch bingo card, and the classic "problem-solution" advertising formula. 

John emphasized that this formula must feature a powerful call to action and an appealing, low-cost "happy meal toy" incentive.The expert took a firm stance against much of modern advertising, critiquing its lack of creativity and its over-reliance on easily misleading vanity metrics.

 The importance of monetizing a podcast audience through joint ventures and diligently collecting listener data was also strongly stressed for podcasters.

 


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Podcasting since two thousand and five. This is the King
of Podcasts Radio Network, kingo Podcasts dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
We're gonna change it up today. What is it that
makes a really great podcast?

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Guest?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thank you for joining me for podcasters, row King of
Podcasts here with you. Appreciate all of you joining me
on the program and joining me here do the courtesy
of website Kingofpodcasts dot Com. Apologies for a little bit
of a delay that we haven't had any new episodes
in the last month or so because took a little
bit of time away. We're gonna go back into more
episodes very soon. And one of the areas I wanted

(00:43):
to talk about on this particular program today and I.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thought would be a good switch around.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
I hadn't thought about doing this yet, but it's great
again and listen to other fellow podcasters out there. But
it's also a thing where when you want to go
ahead and know what to do. I mean, you know,
we've done my podcasting one on one series where I
have given a lot of tips to tricks on what
to do to be a proper podcast host. But it's

(01:10):
also going to be said where you find somebody that
is a guest, and they've been very familiar with being
on a plethora of podcasts, and they might have their
way of how they might manage doing a show. And
you got to ask yourself, when you have somebody that
you have that might have been featured on various podcasts,
various different platforms, how do you make an episode stand

(01:31):
out for yourself? So with me today, I think is
somebody that's going to help me get us.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Into that right area.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Also in marketing with himself. So he is an Australian
marketing consultant, founder of the Institute of Wow affirm that
creates sales stimulating ideas for businesses of all sizes. He's
known for his Wow Factor of marketing philosophy, which focuses
on developing refreshingly unconventional and creative campaigns that generate measurable results.
We take our microphones to Brisbane, Australia and John's wire. John,

(02:02):
thanks you for being on.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Thank you Jones for having me. And I believe that
I got invited because the three other guests that you
hadlined up couldn't make it, so therefore I was number four.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
That was right, Well, I mean they can't make eleven
o'clock time in the East Coast for us at night.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
This is actually you know.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
What's funny is this is actually don't normally the time
I record any of my other episodes of my other programming,
because at this time I have nobody else to worry about.
I'm complete, not distracted. It's like, okay, unencumbered.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
It's wonderful. So that's the part I enjoy about this.
So I guess like I'm in my prime right here.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Normally it's not this would be one of the nights
I don't do a show, but like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday
nights I'm doing shows.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
We're doing this on a Monday night. By the way, Well,
all right.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
So it we shouldn't do anything more about the process
of being a podcast guest. You know, you would be
the only coming on any podcasts to talk about what
you do yourself with the Institute of Wow. Now, first
of all, to the background for yourself. You've worked with
some of the biggest names in the business, from McDonald's
a KFC, and you have these foundational marketing principles that

(03:06):
you apply to a global giant with a multi million
dollar budget, translating to local small businesses with a shoe
string budget, and you work with some great names out
there and not just great brands.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
So take me into what is that.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Makes the institute a whow and how you're with the
go ahead and translate an idea that could be for
a big or smaller outfit.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Good judge. Yeah, Look, we are, I guess specialists of
what you would call direct response marketing. And as that
phrase in FERSA, it's all about getting a direct response
from your Facebook ads or your LinkedIn ads, or your
Instagram ads or whatever it might pay. So we're not
we're not the typical ad agency that tells you that
they go to help you get people to fall in

(03:48):
love with your brand so that they'll taste your product.
We actually flip that. We show you how to get
people to taste your products so that they'll fall in
love with your brand. And unless you're a Nike or
Kellogg's or Coca Cola, then you be kind of afford
to put your face on the side of the bus
or sponsored the Olympics or the basketball teams. And we
tend to track the clients that might be more small

(04:09):
to medium sized businesses that want to advertise today and
you put food on the table tomorrow. So it's all
about direct response tactics.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Now, one of the areas I want to ask into
the podcast guesting angle that I'm talking about here, So
that question I asked you there compared to having the
typical tell us about yourself and leaving it open for
yourself to go and talk about, or basically leaving alone
for people to have your own elevator pitch. You know,
when you've had people come on, are you more accustomed

(04:39):
to having that kind of just to open up.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
And tell us about yourself?

Speaker 2 (04:43):
And that's something you feel like, well, you know, do
you feel like people might get Does it concern you
because it might become something where you might draw along
for a couple of minutes, and you want to make
sure people are going to stay engaged in the into
what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah, yeah, right, I'll look. You know, on people saide
to me all the time, how long should our Facebook
video ad be? And I said, look, if you were
Robin Williams or Jim Carrey, it can be in our
But if you are boring, then ye try to stick
to the city seconds or two minutes because you will
bore people shitless. Otherwise and look in terms of you know, tactics,

(05:17):
I'll give you one or two. We have a formula
at the moment, which we call the Facebook Contest formula.
I come from a background of doing pretty much all
of Rupert Murdock newspaper scrap bingos and the monopoly style
promotions for McDonald's and k Yes, all that sort of stuff.
So I've come from a contest background. We do million
dollar prizes quite often because we get them from Lloyd's
of London for twenty twenty five thousand dollars. They'll give

(05:38):
us a million dollars and then we old million dollar price,
I should say, and you know, we help hotels fill
rooms by killing people. You know, if they saved my hotel,
then you're the chance to win a million dollars and
all sorts of things, but one that is like staggering
and we only sort of just developed in the last
six months, and we call it the Facebook Contest Blueprint.
And it's so simple. It's not that it's justus so simple,

(06:01):
and it's getting people a thousand leads a week up
to one thousand leads a week for twenty or thirty
dollars a day span, which is pretty stupid, and that
we encourage businesses to give away their product or service
as the prize on Facebook. So they run a contest
on Facebook, and it can be any other platform, let's
just say Facebook. And what happens is that they simply
get that's the same. For example, I dent We had

(06:22):
a dentist recently and they came on board and they said,
we want more rich parents with children with crooked teeth.
I said, fine, So we demographically targeted the Facebook ads
to the rich suburbs and we said, how would you
like to win in vis aligned braces, which is the
invisible braces for your child's teeth. Now, the only rich
parents who are going to enter that contest parents with
children with crooked teeth. He spent. He spent thirty dollars

(06:44):
a day and got nine hundred and ninety one leads
in the first week. So he gives away one prize,
but then he's got nine hundred and ninety people who
glowed in the dark. Put the hand in the air
and said, my kid's got crooked teeth. That's not a list,
that's not a database. That's a red hot leads.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Now, John, I won't say you know and there are
in terms of how many years you've already been doing
this kind of marketing. But I'm old enough to know
getting there is fifty years old to remember how people
would market and promote, just like you said right now
with the Facebook contest form, where you get away a
product to get more people to go ahead and engage
with the product. There's not a lot of that going

(07:20):
in America itself. I don't see a lot of that
going on where people are willing to go ahead and
put their money with their mouth.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Is and put a promotion out there.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
At the same time, I also think about what you have,
you know, as for like McDonald's, KFC, large familiar fast
food brands, you've got to do something where I feel
like the marketing here has to be too cool for school,
if that makes sense, because it can't be can't be
we can't be goofy, we can't be over the top,

(07:49):
you know.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Jingles, no singing, nothing like that.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
It's very very bland and very very dry here now
more than ever. And then if they're gonna do anything
that's kind of out there, it's like that's big, like
a TikTok video.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
So when you look at that, it looks like you
kind of give the best of both worlds.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
You are playing up to what traditional advertising is able
to do because in the markets you work at, especially
in Australia, I can imagine, or in the UK or
wherever else, maybe English speaking they can play, they can
have a little more fun with each other.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah. I mean, look, I'm a baby Burmer, so you
know I grew up with Little House on the Prairie.
I actually lived with Little House Michael Landon. Yeah, but yeah,
so look I've been around the block a few times
and I've got six millennial children, and whenever they see
my advertising, they go, Dad, you know, Dad, seriously, you
shouldn't use so many words. And because you know that

(08:39):
age group that are coming through all about minimalistic. And
you know, the thing is is that I keep on
saying to people, and I not serves my purpose because
I'm a baby boomer. But I say, look, if you
have to have a heart transplant, when you pick the
kid that just came out of medical school and he's
twenty four years of age and says I've never done
this before, but I'll give it a hell of shot.
Or would you pick the doctor that's been doing it
for four decades, and I think it and I said,

(09:00):
in your instance, with your business, if you need a
hot transplant for your business, you're going to pick the
bit of hipster who's twenty three and you know it's
not done too much of this, or you're going to
pick the god that's unformillion. It doesn't matter about the platform.
The platform. I might be Facebook, or it might be X,
it might be Instagram. It doesn't matter what it is.
The concept itself is what works. And the stuff that

(09:21):
I was doing for fastpha Change many thousands of years
ago still works today. It's just a different communication platform,
that's all.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Now.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
When it comes to how you're going to target those
ads based on demographic they might be looking for and
knowing who's going to be engaging in those platforms. For Facebook,
you would think an older demographic. X you might think
a different demographic as well, if an Instagram may be
more of a female demographic. And the way you do that,
I mean, you can do a lot with editing now

(09:49):
and make it very flashy video, but also as a
matter of what you do in the content itself to
draw the attention, because the anyone could just see something
flashy and just skip through it.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
What do you do to catch that a.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Well, I'll give you an example, because you guys are
pretty close to the radio industry, and I've worked for
a couple of radio as a consultant for a couple
of radio stations in Sydney, Australia in particular, but I've
done it for American radio stations as well. And only
yesterday I posted a sarcastic piece on my Facebook page
which got a little bit of interest, and that was
I was in the car and in front of me

(10:23):
was a taxi and that taxi had a cab adversement
on the back of it promoting the radio station, and
I had a picture of the breakfast term, which normally
a lady and a man these days. And I said,
listen to one O two point nine from six am.
That was it. And they thought that they're on drugs.
Do they really think that somebody's going to go, oh
my god, yeah, six o'clock tomorrow morning, I'm going to
listen to those And I said, if they actually said

(10:45):
listen to six fifteen, seven fifteen and eight fifteen tomorrow,
because each one of those time slots, we're going to
give you five birthday dates five days. If your birthday
appears on any one of those dates, you win next
thousand dollars. And you know they don't do it, but
we've done. We took a Sydney radio station from a
ratings number of ten up to nid in within three

(11:06):
within three weeks. I simply letter box brosuring and back
in the day you'd do it digitally now, but back
in the day we let a mock dropped all of Sitney.
We gave them a scratch bingo card and you had
to listen to this particular radio station which is called
two UW, and you had to listen at six fifteen,
seven fifteen and eight fifteen because there would be a
bingo called routurine. And when you did that bingo called routine,
they scratched out the numbers and they found that they

(11:26):
had three of the four beetle symbols that they had
to get for fifty thousand dollars within the two days.
Guess what the ratings were on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. When
you've got three of the beetle symbols that are going
to bring you. So the thing is is that a
lot of the younger folk and you know, my millennial
children will hate me for saying this, but they're into
the tagline, they're into the brand message. But what they're

(11:48):
not taking advantage of was a lot of what they
measured their advertising on, which is vanity metrics. If they
go home that night and say to the kids, look,
we've got two hundred likes today, the kids are probably
going to say to them, Daddy, that's great, but there's
no food on the table right now.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
The other thing, too, is that if you get good advertising,
I mean, I look every year I watch the super
Bowl and any other major sporting events. If I watch,
it's gonna be the insurance companies in America.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
That are gonna be the most entertaining commercials. They are.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
They're funny, they're crafty, they're creative, they put some real
thought into it, and you watch them over and over
and over again because they're out there and they just
don't disappoint. Now, but the thing is, not everybody's gonna
be able for that ad agency. And now everyone's gonna
go ahead and say, you know, the agencies are gonna
always try to push towards another agenda. That's going to

(12:35):
be some of the kind of thing like right now,
even with public relations, you know that it's a PR
agency that connected with me and you to get this
interviewed together, and you know.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's like you have to work on.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Also, if you have expectations as a client trying to
reach someone like yourself, there is gonna be that push
and pull of the persuasion that you'll have saying well,
you should try trying to something, and that might not
And even though there might be some expectations that that
client might have, everybody gets kind of pigionoled in the
same kind of thing because they're going to say, well,

(13:09):
you can think of this idea, but it doesn't work.
How often you really plan to making something that's going
to really feel you're taking that client's idea to mind,
regardless of how far fetched it is and how much
is it to make a client convinced they should actually
cant a fall where you're going with a campaign for them.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah, look, by job, if we want to continue putting
food on the table, I mean, all of our six
kids have left home now and so it's just my
wife and myself, so we don't have to put that
much food on the table anymore. But my mantra being
direct response is all about problem solution advertising. So it's
the infommercial on TV where you see the lady might
be overweight, and you say, look, you know your problem

(13:52):
is that you're not feeling good about yourself and perhaps
you're overweight. Do you know that summer's just around the corner.
You can look like a super model in four weeks
if you do this dip program, whatever it may be.
So that's the problem solution form. So all of this
direct response stuff, whether it's a George forman barbecue, or
whether it's weight loss programs or whatever it is, it's
all about providing their problem and then giving them a solution.
There's nothing particularly new about that. I'm sure most of

(14:13):
your listeners would know that. But you know where they
fall down because normally it's a problem, then it's an
aggravate problem. Then it's provided the solution. And then number four,
it's normally proof, which is testimonials. And then number five
is where most people fall down. It's a good CTA
called to action, and that's where they fall down. And
so therefore they present the problem, they provide the solution,

(14:34):
whether it's a head, a table, or whether it's a
weight loss program or whatever it might be. But they
get to the end and they sell on price. And
you know what we try and teach them is don't
sell on price. Provide a happy meal toy justla McDonald's,
and make them get across the line quickly. You provide
the happy meal toy with a date deadline, and you say, look,
if you get in by Friday, we'll give you a
free vacation, or we will give you a free whatever.

(14:57):
And that's where most people fall down. They let pople
sit on the fence forever instead of pushing him to
make a decision by Friday and getting a happy mail
to him.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Now, of course you've been asked this question before about
getting to work with the incomprable Jerry Seinfeld the Great
Middlely Society campaign and the fact that he's only done
three campaigns working with anybody at all in his career,
and yeah, it's just, you know, he's not so much
of the limelight part he's I mean, it was always
Larry David that was more of like into the Hollywood thing,

(15:26):
and Jerry just got to be a part of it
and really was just like he wanted.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
To go and do the comedy.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
They wanted to do left on his own terms, always
does everything on his own terms.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
And for that, that's a very.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Difficult client to work with, even though you might realize, well, no,
he probably would be really easy to work with if
you just kind of like follow along with what he wants.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
So trying to go.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Ahead and play the right role when you have a
client like that, tell me about what it was that
you felt like were that wild factor pitch was going
to work to get someone like him on board and
the result you got for him.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, and George, as I mentioned you before we press
the record button, I've milked the daylights out of this
for the last ten years.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
And even my wife says, will you let the Seinfield
thing go? I said, never, never. It's an attention so
you can device, you know. And what it was is
that I was a consultant to a bank down Under
called the Greater Building Society, same thing as a bank
building Society, and they're up against the Wells Fargo style
banks here in Australia, and I said to them, you
people are on drugs, you're on TV and social media
advertising home loans and whatever it was at the time

(16:33):
to say, you know, five point eight percent. Do you
realize that the Wills Fargo Bank or the Bank of
America down under it will beat you within five minutes.
It'd be like a corner store taking on costco on price.
You're never going to win on price. And they said, okay,
smart Alec, what do we do? And I said, look,
I've been doing some infomercials on TV for a travel
discout company. How about I introduce you and instead of

(16:54):
giving away the one percent honeymoon raid for home loans,
which is what every bank in the world does for
the first felve months one percent rate, why don't you
give that to the travel company and they'll give you
a ten thousand dollar vacation for five And they said, okay,
smart Alec, we'll give this a shot. We tested it
for the first month where we came on TV in
social and said get a home loan from the Greater
Building Society or swap from the big banks, and we'll

(17:16):
give you free vacation. So it's cost neutral because all
they did was transfer the one percent honey moterrate across
to the travel company and in the first two years
they took an extra fifteen billion dollars worth of home loans,
and this idiot who you're talking to charge a consultancy
for instead of a percentage, I'm a moron. And it
went nuts. It just absolutely went nuts. They had a
call center with twenty ladies. They had to triple that

(17:38):
to sixty within like the first week. Or we're talking
about a happy mel toy on steroids. I mean, who
doesn't want a free vacation and jet to Holly. You
may even get more response on these days. Yeah, exactly exactly,
but I mean half a million dollar loan would get
them somewhere in Australia. A million dollar loan, who'd get
them to Disneyland or Disney World, you know, twice over.
So it was a pretty sexy offer. And we would

(17:59):
have customers on TV and on social saying we used
to have our homeland with one of the big banks.
They wouldn't mention the name. Of course, we flopped across
to the Greater and then all of a sudden, heavenly music,
White Doves, and we've just gone to Disney World. So
I'm just pretty easyself. And what happened is about three
years into that, the general manager of the bank said
to me, look, we've picked up all the low lying
throuit what else you got? And I said, well, why

(18:19):
don't we know, why don't we get a celebrity? And
so they said yes, and we put out a research survey.
I was hoping it would be an Australian easy to
get celebrity, and Robin Williams came first, and Darry Seinfeld
came second, and Jim Terry came third. I thought I've
dug my whole. So, as it turned out, I flew
to New York and met with the Robin Williams manager

(18:41):
and you know, we did the deal with Robin Williams
and then unfortunately they should have had I right back.
This is well before he's passing, well right back in Australia.
He got a movie to do. This is about a
dozen years and then anyway, so we went to number
two and that was Seinfeld and as it turned out,
it took me six months to get him across the line.
But yeah, when Jerry I asked him why did he

(19:04):
do this because we flew back and forwards for three
years to New York to do all the ads, and
he said, well, two things. I like the Ossie Sensor humor.
You guys are pretty sarcastic like us, So therefore I
enjoy that. But he said, the other thing is I
never thought you'd Boddy go away unless I said yes,
and I said the distance boots intelligence in my book,
you know no.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
But you know what, it's also tested with the Jerry
Scientil for the fact that his star even though that
show ended in nineteen ninety eight, and the fact that
well in syndication and now on streaming, is relentless.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
I mean, you can't get away in that show.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
And it's also you know, part of the fact there's
not that much new content out there that really just
stands at at the time.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
There's not that many sitcoms a hold like that anymore,
but that does. That's incredible. I guess.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
You know what, though, hope you can you imagine if
it was already successful for the first three years without Seinfeld,
once we put Seinfeld on TV and social saying basically,
you know, I swapped behind loan and get a free vacation,
when absolutely nuts. And interestingly though, George, as a result
of that just before COVID, just once you got Seinfield
doing your ads, and of course, as you said, it

(20:09):
was down on the third time. He's done ads and
other times we're American Express and the Microsoft, so they're
a bit bigger than this little bank down under. Basically,
I had a call from a company that said, look,
we've got access to unsold hotel rooms around the world,
and I said, yeah, come on, and they said, we
are not marketers. We've just seen what you've done with
the Seinfield thing down under. Do you want to join

(20:29):
forces and provide this unbelievable happy mal toy to businesses?
And so that's what we do these days. I know
if you listen to this, you won't see what I'm
holding up. But now what we do is that we
actually provided businesses a vacation voucher that they get from
us for fifty dollars and they get three to seven
nights vacation in America and all around the world. Yeah,

(20:49):
it's a crazy great And you're talking about podcasters before,
and because I know that most of your listeners will
be podcasters. Can you imagine if they had a happy
meal toy where they said, listen, listen to my podcast
and I will give you, you know, the chance to
win a one of fifty Grandpa Yeah yeah, or what
can elver? It might they and we're talking Orlando, in
New York, we're talking in Las Vegas and Grand Canyon,

(21:10):
all the sixty places. And yeah, so therefore, for the
last five years, i mean, we had to sit on
our hands for COVID, But for the last five years
we're actually now giving businesses. They're heavy milk toy. They
don't even stay I'm looking for They get a thousand
dollars vacation the fifty dollars and they give that to
whoever buys the lawnlight service or whoever buys their refrigerator.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
It's one of those things where you're talking about greater
building and the fact that it's you know, inditionally the
ads for them were a different scale, but then the
growth of the company for how it was just comes
to another level.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
You see the change of the ads.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
I've seen a lot of companies that'll do that, that will
go from regional to national or they'll just be a
national outfit but really have something that's kind of quirky
out there. The General Insurance Company always think about where
the General you know, you get the little jingle and
now he has Shaquille Neil is.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Also doing commercials with them.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
You've already stepped up to the celebrity status as well,
and I think, oh, they sold insurance policies. Something worked,
and it's a very heavy market. I don't know why
that is so important in this in this area in America,
but it totally is more than anything else. And there's
you know, people are only going to be willing to
go and advertise in sports or advertising for live events,

(22:18):
but now not much scripted programming. How are you going
to get yourself through streaming or through their outlets? And
you know what you got to go ahead and promote
and create for YouTube is gonna be different than other
things because of what we were watching.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
You know, it's that attention and saying.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Okay, how are you going to make that person avoid
that first five seconds of skipping an ad, which a
lot of those kind of ads are gonna come from.
You got to give them that. So I imagine for
like a greater building. If you're doing an ad right now,
you put that having abuh toy right there.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
At the very beginning.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
You want to learn how to win this, stay tuned
to learn more about this, but first this and then
you get.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
To have free vacation thing obviously is the best happy
meal toy you can have because it appeals to both
sexers and all. We had a turf farm a little
while ago. So he sells grass. Okay, he's got miles
and miles of turf. And he said to me, look,
you know, how does this work for me? I said, well,
who's your ticket audience? And of course there's landscapers, because

(23:17):
they will buy five or ten homes with a turf
rather than mum and dad woul buy front yards with
the grass, right, and so we just gave them and
he said that if you for every five hundred square
meters of turf, we took square meters in Australia rather
than the yards, so that's a front yard and a backyard.
We'll give you a cart and a prestigious beer. Now
these landscapers would normally drink any beer, but this was

(23:39):
the prestigious beer that they normally wouldn't buy themselves. So
it was a BMW Beers. And he had about just
under one and a half miles worth of turf. He
had a lot of acreage. And we sent out the
email and through mail because landscapers tend to be technofobes,
and we said look for every homes with the turf,

(24:00):
then we'll give you basically counting the beer. He brings
me six days into it and said, we've got a problem.
We've got no more turf, and I said one. He said,
we're sourcing turf from other turf farms to keep up
with a demand for the beer. And he said, John,
I'll tell you how stupid this is. He said, there's
one guy who's the worst client in the world. He
would always ring me up and say how much per
square meter and I'd say, you know whatever it was,
you know, six dollars. He said, well, I can get

(24:21):
it down the road for five fifty. So he had
to drop these pants to five forty, and he said
it was a race to the bottom. That same guy
who was always prot conscience running up and said, I
want eighteen homes with the grass, but I don't care.
When I get that, I need eighteen cartons of beer.
By Friday, I've got a party.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Wow, that's crazy. Now I got to ask you about this.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Now, that's good transition to the fact that, well, you're
doing for other clients, you're doing a great job of
promoting for them, but it also has a good turn
back ground for yourself. Because you have to also be
your best promoter, So for yourself when you do these
podcasts from small Business, big Marketing to the projectal Well show,

(25:00):
come to filling your message and the stories that you
tell different audiences as well.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
So, like you've already talked to us so far about
you know, various.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Campaigns you've done, consistent message across the platforms you already
do that you know you used to always keep hampering
on when you do an episode. Is there anything in
particular you know from your own brand that you know
you have to go ahead and hit on every interview
and find a way to put it in there.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yeah, exactly Normally what I do and I think I
shout at you before we press the record button, but
I give away the opt in gift of all gifts,
and it's a tabloige sized book called the Well Manifesto,
which has three hundred pages of direct response ideas in here,
which would suit a podcaster as much as would suit
a books in a banker. And normally I just get

(25:48):
my email addressing. If they want that, they get it
for free, no question to asked. But do I get
business from that? Normally? Yeah? So therefore, if I give
away fifty of these after podcast, there's every chance in
the world i'll get four or five people me. Look,
how else can you help me? So, as a typical lead,
make that that you'd be very familiar with.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
But what I did was a little bit bigger than
the coffee table, just so you know the size of it.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
So it's the.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Size of a tabloid. Look, the one that I am
holding up is leather bound with gold tip edges, and
it's my clients called me a wanker because of it,
because it is a it is a wanker book. But
you know it's four hundred and twenty dollars to print,
would you believe? So I can't give the real copy
of right, Yeah, but I get the digital copy your way,
and I'll give my email addres later.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
But yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
So the thing is is that I thought to myself,
Look if I set up my own podcast, because I'm
heading up towards one hundred and twenty years of age,
it's going to take a while to to build the audience.
So why don't I just make myself, you know, a
guest at podcasts that get to business owners. And so
therefore I've just got a girl in the Philippins that
you know, essentially books me into these things and invites

(26:50):
me like she would have invited you to simply go
to my name's Strong deuas it's JD podcast guest dot com.
I hope you don't mind me saying that. But when
people and when you went to Dada podcast guests dot com,
you'll see Seinfeld all over it. Of course I'm showing
off about him, but by the same token, it'll give you,
George and perhaps others, some sort of degree of I

(27:11):
guess comfort. That is going to be an interesting interview.
It's not going to be like watching paint right, and
you know that has been marvelous because she will I
think she gets I forget what it was now buttis
it might be eighty dollars. I think it might be
per podcast, so it's pennies. And she will put me
on between three and six podcasts a week, And every

(27:31):
time I get on a podcast, I will get probably
three to six leads from that podcast. And they're warm
leads because they're already following you, George, so therefore they
trust you, they trust your brand, they know you wouldn't
have a complete more on and so therefore those leads
are always warmer than if I did a webinar, for example.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
It's interesting.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
So in my business, we were talking before we got
on here about what I do in my full time outfit,
which I wish it paid more.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
But radio is a cruel mistress. We already know that.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
And oh, if I could use the money, I almost
feel like, you know, putting out my PayPal on my
cash app right now, it's like so cash strap.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
But that's another story.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
But one thing is I always have to go and
work with people coaching and consulting to help them host
their own podcast because one of the things in our
persuasion here is, you know, our sales team is trying
to convince people because it's a higher buy to buy
podcast time to be in their own weekly podcasts, and
we're trying to convince them, Hey, look, we're conciers. We're
gonna do it all for you, So don't worry about anything.

(28:33):
All you gotta do is just gonna sit down, put
a microphone in front of you. You want your guests
provide it for you. We'll find them. If it's your
people or if it's somebody that you want us to
bring to you, Happy to go and do that.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
But it's one of those things where nobody ever thinks about.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
The fact that that's where these PR companies are now
coming around where they all do that kind of part
where it's like, Okay, they're gonna paid earned media for themselves,
they're gonna make well, they're gonna make off of this,
and they're gonna find appearances.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
And you know, when you think.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
About who it is is booking these appearances, how much
input you are you giving to them? And I mean,
are there rarely any places where they try to send
you an appearance and you say, no, that's not for
my audience.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
That's not for me.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Not very often. I mean, look, it's all about message
to market match. If I was if I was going
to buy a sports jacket at the men's wear store
and they gave me a free skateboard as the happy
mil toy, then you know, I'd say thank you, but
you're an idiot, and so therefore you know the message
to market match, it's the best podcast for me are
going to be when people who are listeners own a business,

(29:38):
because I don't do be deceived minus all be to be.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
It looked.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
There's the odd one that you know There was one
that I did about one month ago, and it was
two ladies who in America in Texas were chiropractic the doctors,
and I thought, oh, my goodness, you know, what do
I know about chiropractice. But as it turned out when
I dived into my files, I have about a dozen
colored precta services over the years, and I won't believe

(30:04):
in the details of them. But yes, I was a
guest on that ended up being fantastic. But on the
surface for me to look at a doctor's sort of
bog podcast, I know they're not doctors, but they want
to be. They want to be doctors. At first glance,
I thing, oh, this is not familiar. But there hasn't
been too many on a back because look at the
end of the die Joe, which I mean big deal,
I give up to thirty or forty five minutes. If

(30:24):
there's the odd one that's Obama subad.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Sure, well, now about those that you might get, You know,
are there certain things that you would like that podcasters
would do more of? So, for instance, for me, I
have my pet peeves because I'm always trying to think,
well the guests should have in mind. You know, there's
areas where if I'm going to ask questions, I don't
want to throw softball questions. I know some people, you know,

(30:48):
they have a proteatogen. They want to go and cover,
so they want to make sure that you know, they're
not gonna get thrown with anything else. It canna be
out of left field. That's going to be uncomfortable or awkward.
Now there's that part that could also will be where
the host might be taking too much time for themselves
to kind of like you know, fill up their ego
or to be too full of themselves. Are there certain

(31:10):
things you notice but we're not naming names, We're just
saying in general, is that something you see in some
of the experiences you've had where you've had some people
that might have taken themselves a little bit too much
into the format and they're not necessarily considering what your
message is. They're more concerned about just the presentation and

(31:33):
making themselves look good.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Spot on, Jojio, I was spot on, and a lot
of the plotcaster as I found think they kind of
ibron so that I can take up seventy percent of
the podcast, and I guess takes up thirty percent, but
I ain't kind of ibron So you're quite right. I mean,
there was one even last week and it ran for
about forty minutes, and I'm guessing he would have gone
on for thirty minutes and I got ten. And it's
not a don't get brow. It's not a contest. It's

(31:56):
just as you think to yourself, my goodness, and wasn't
I able to contry get any real value because I
only got ten minutes out of forty? So it must
be something you're very familiar with. You must say, a
lot of podcasters that decide that they're more important on
the guests.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Oh the ones I have to good coach, and then
I have to bring them back down to the earth.
And the other thing too, I'll tell you like this,
you know, not for nothing. The other thing too, is
that I have these podcast hosts that are sponsoring to
be on the network, and you know a bit much.
But it is something where it used to be much

(32:29):
easier for some show hosts to stay on and be convinced,
you know what, this is working for me. They don't
want to give it six months to say, okay, leads,
we're gonna still really getting generated.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
We need to build an audience. We need to build
things up, which is one of.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
The reasons you said yourself why you don't host one yearself,
because it is starts some from scratch. When you have
all your other platforms you worked on for all these years,
it's much easier going the other out and being the guest.
So but the thing is, we don't try to go
in charge for guests. We try, but it's not something
that people really want to do, no matter how much
we give extra to them. Oh, we'll give you the video,

(33:02):
we'll give you the transcript, we'll give you the ebook,
We'll they get it into an ebook, whatever you want with it.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
It's like, well, you do not want to go to
spend the money on it. So I mean, for that,
what would be the.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Motus up running for a podcaster to be able to
go and monetize someone for an appearance and for yourself.
You want the podcast appearance to benefit for you because
you see more benefit from that as.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Opposed to doing it on your own and trying to
do the message on your own.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
Really really simple, George. If I'm plogging the vacation program,
for example, we get access to unsold hotel rooms right
around America. And around the world. So the custom goods
is zero. Okay, So therefore the hotels giving up the
rooms outside of skilled vacation periods because they bank money
on food and beverage, but we get the accommodation for free.

(33:54):
And so therefore we've got something that's called variable pricesing.
Not many people have variable prising. They buy the TV
from China for two hundred dollars bringing into America, they've
got to sell it for four hundred. But if they
don't sell it, there's still spend two hundred. If I
don't sell the vacation program, then that hasn't cost me anything.
So therefore I get together with list owners, the Frank
Kerns and Rhyan Diaces and Muscle Brunson's of the world,

(34:15):
and I do av joint ventures with them. So therefore
they will have me as a webinar. We'll get on
and tick tack them do the whole story. I will
sell the vacation program, and then I will share the
revenue with them, because I've just borrowed the equity of
their database. And I'm not one podcast as ever asked
me that if a podcast is said to me, listen,
you can without being Sillier. You don't want to turn

(34:37):
it into a webinar where it's death by powerper and
I'm not suggesting that from m. But if you tease
the audience with some really good stuff like this or
the million dollar drawer, or gas discounts and all these
packages that we have because we're a direct response agency
and they buy through a particular affiliate link, can I
have a percentage? I will say yes within a heartbeat.
But not one has ever asked if they would like

(34:58):
to join venture with it any of this stuff. And
obviously the podcaster has to check it out to make
sure that it's all about board. But yeah, that's a
real opportunity I think a lot of podcasters are missing
out on.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
So now I want to go and get into talking
about what you have right now in terms of all
that you're working on. First of all, the Institute of
Wild dot com. Right off the bat, when you just
met a genie podcast guest dot com if you want
to have Jenny here as a guest on your series, but.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
I want to give you a couple of minutes go and.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Talk about what you have altogether, because there's a lot
of places, but Institute of Wild dot com. The Institute
of Wild dot Com is the main center, the main
hub of everything you're working on. Correct, Yes it is. Yeah,
So that's the name of the business.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
And obviously it's appropriately known because you know, I believe
that if you're going to advertise and make sure it's
got a wow affector, because if it doesn't, then why
you're doing it. And you know, my view is, George,
that most business owners have come through a university of
a college and they become a doctor, or a dentist
or a butchert bake so they're very good technicians, but
not once through throughout those three or four or five

(36:04):
years at university where they ever taught how to get
a customer. So, you know, we have dentists and doctors
ring us up who are part of the medical practice
and they say, listen, you know, can you teach us
how to get customers? Because we learned how to be
a good dentist, or we learned how to be a
good coropractice, but no one ever taught us how to
get customers the sort of stuff that we do. Yeah,
I mean, you know, we have a consultancy side of

(36:26):
our business whereby I become their Quasiti marketing manager and
they pay a few dollars each month and then to
put everything together for them, and that's nice. It's hard
to work for me because obviously I've got to customize
everything to that particular business, Whereas the easy thing for
me is the vacation program or win a million dollars
or any of those sorts of things, because they're all
packaged up and you know, they basically sit and forget.

(36:47):
I would just encourage anyone if you wanted the free
book with all of the three hundred pages worth of
ideas on there, and you wanted to ask about any
of the other things, and my personal femail addresses John
at the Institute of Wildbook Home, I'm more than happy
to you know, basically jump on a call with you.
What I would say, probably in closing those George, is

(37:08):
that I think, as a podcaster, there's a number of
these things that could be used. You know, Amazon had
been around for a while and should have toward all
of us the power of collecting a database and tell
me if I'm wrong with George. But you know, most
podcasters don't know who the listeners are. They might have
some idea of the demographic profile, but they don't have
any email addresses or fund numbers. Would that be fit

(37:30):
to sign?

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Absolutely, But I also know that to build a content,
and that may be aside from what their content, we're
already doing to get a newsletter together. I've been told
all this, and I'll tell you for myself. It's been
very difficult to coul do anything. Maybe an affiliate program.
I've tried to do that over the years, anything that
has to like.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Just build that farming of leeds or potential people that
are that are possibly listening to the programming.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
It is tough to go and put that together. It's
just I haven't taken a time to do that. And
I'm sure of the podcasters might be looking for some
that will be to get advertiser, to get somebody to
come on board that can give. And the thing I
want to ask you is that when it comes to
finding clients and a podcast wants to find clients or
something like my outfit where we're trying to get someone
to go and do a podcast serious with us, they

(38:15):
expect that instant payoff. They expect metrics, data, data data
right off the bat. Because now everybody can bring and
provide data. So how important is that to bring that
kind of instant gratification and the metrics that they're looking for,
even though it's not important, they're just you know, they're
asking for it, but it's like trust the process instead.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
I would encourage anyone to go to FB for Facebook,
FB contest blueprint dot com. We build allsts for Americans. Now,
we don't do much in Australia because the American dollar
to us is much better. And so therefore, if you've
got an FB contest blueprint dot com, you'll see how
we get massive numbers of leads. For twenty dollars a day.

(38:58):
You can expect to get some between five hundred and
a thousand leads in a week for that, as long
as you've got a sexy product. Obviously, you know the
thing I would suggest. I mean, a radio station guy
had lunch with me about two weeks ago. Now he
won't do this because excuse the pun, but he's a dickhead,
and he said to me, listen, you know over all
the years of contests, I mean, how do you build
up a radio audience? I said, really, really simple, it's

(39:20):
just run a license to print money promotion. He said,
what do you mean, I said, just you know, advertise
on social media your radio station call sign and tell
people to come on and basically at six fifteen, seven fifteen,
and eight to fifteen in the morning, because as you know, George,
breakfast is where the radio stations make most of the money.
Just had out BINGO numbers and they checked their driver's

(39:42):
license because on your American driver's license you've got numbers,
so you don't have to distribute any BINGO cards like
we used to in the old days and put the
bath panels on them. You turn something, whether it's a
Medicare card or the driver's license, but basically you use
that as a free of charge platform. And when you
announce these numbers at six fifteen, seven fifteen, and eight

(40:04):
fifteen of the morning, if they mark out four of
the ten numbers that are given, then they all win
or they're in the chance to win one million dollars.
And we get the one million dollars from Lloyds of
London for about twenty two grand. You can get fifty
thousand dollars from Lloyd's of London for about three or
four grand.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
So now what I'm saying is that if a podcast
advertise Listen, you don't want their email address anyway, They're
not going to open it. Okay, you only want their
cell number. So therefore, because eighty four percent of mobiles
answered within two minutes a right, or if I'm not answered,
but look that within two minutes. So you just say
to them, listen, get your driver's license out, we go
to play game and you're in the chance to win
fifty thousand dollars. It's insured, so you don't know if

(40:42):
you come up with fifty thousand dollars. You just give
loads of London a few grant. Right, And what I'm
going to ask you to do is text to me
now your cell number and you'll instantly be in the drawer. Now,
if that podcast has five thousand listeners, I can almost
guarantee you the four thousand of them will give you
their phone number within thirty seconds. Wow, I've seen it done.
At the U two concert, you Bono came down under

(41:04):
and he's a good market at that guy, he's almost
as good as Paul mccount that he actually said, look
at fifty thousand people in the stadium in Brisbane, what
I'd like you to do now, everyone get their phone out,
so everyone got they find out he said, I want
you to text your number to me for the chance
to win whatever it might be, and fifty thousand people
gave him their phone number within sixty seconds.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeap, John Dwyer, the Institute of Wow dot com. The
Institute of Wow dot com. Remember the in front when
you're going to go to the website. John, I really
appreciate taking time out of go and talk to me
about all this and also just incorporating the part of
being that podcast guest. I really do appreciate that insight
from that and you know a bit of a different
feel for the audience. But anything else we were going

(41:45):
to make sure I mentioned you just mentioned FB contest,
Blueprint dot com and you know, it's amazing what you
have out there.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Thank you for making time to go and join me.
I really appreciate it this morning.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
My pleasure. Thank you for having me as a guest.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
George all right, and thank you listeners as always for
listening to Another podcast is row and you know, as
always King of Podcasts dot com. If you want to
go ahead and be a guest hero on Podcasters show,
you have your own podcast and maybe.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
You are a very experienced guest yourself.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
You want to go ahead and be featured here on
the program, go ahead and reach out to me and
we can even go and consider it bringing you on there.
But again there's a form at the website King of
Podcasts dot com. Make sure to go into end to
that and we will talk to you next time.