June 16, 2025 • 22 mins
Joe Pardavila, a media veteran, discussing his career in radio and his current work, including his book Good Listen: Creating Memorable Conversations In Business And Life and the podcast "Good Listen."
Good Listen: Creating Memorable Conversations In Business And Life originated from anecdotes he shared with podcast clients and contains life lessons learned from his extensive radio experience, applicable to communication in various contexts.
"Good Listen" aims to teach readers how to become better communicators and build stronger connections by improving their listening skills and creating more meaningful conversations
The "Good Listen" podcast serves as an extension of the book, focusing on people's stories. Pardavila initially experienced imposter syndrome transitioning from entertainment to business podcasting but realized the core is always storytelling. He also discussed the challenges of recording his own audiobook, emphasizing the need for patience and vocal preparation.
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Good Listen: Creating Memorable Conversations In Business And Life originated from anecdotes he shared with podcast clients and contains life lessons learned from his extensive radio experience, applicable to communication in various contexts.
"Good Listen" aims to teach readers how to become better communicators and build stronger connections by improving their listening skills and creating more meaningful conversations
The "Good Listen" podcast serves as an extension of the book, focusing on people's stories. Pardavila initially experienced imposter syndrome transitioning from entertainment to business podcasting but realized the core is always storytelling. He also discussed the challenges of recording his own audiobook, emphasizing the need for patience and vocal preparation.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/podcasters-row-hosted-by-kingofpodcasts--5922450/support.
Contact KOP for professional podcast production, imaging, and web design services at http://www.kingofpodcasts.com
Support KOP by subscribing to his YouTube channel and search for King Of Podcasts
Follow KOP on X and TikTok @kingofpodcasts (F Meta!)
Listen to KOP’s other programs, Podcasters Row… and the Wrestling is Real Wrestling Podcast and The Broadcasters Podcast.
Buy KOP a Coffee https://buymeacoffee.com/kingofpodcasts
Drop KOP a PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=3TAB983ZQPNVL
Drop KOP a Venmo https://account.venmo.com/u/kingofpodcasts
Drop KOP a CashApp https://cash.app/$kingofallpodcasts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
And welcome back to the podcaster show. This is King
of the podcast here where you appreciate all of you
joining us, friending the program is always do, whether it
be Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Music, YouTube itself, Amazon Music
and all of the platform. Thank you for join us here.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
And my guest today has spent decades mastering the art
of our audio storytelling and effective communication. And he's a
New York City media veteran. Trust me when I say
and I tell you the accolades, you'll realize why it
was now producer at Scott and Todd in the Morning
ninety five point five, the w P l J and
New York. He's used that wisdom to his best selling
(00:54):
book Good Listen, and now leads the podcasting charge as
director podcasts for Advantage Media and Forbes Books, helping others
create content that deeply resonates. Joe part of elves with
me and thinks for being with me.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Joe, Ah, You're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I don't want to be one of those shows that
will come in because there's a lot of shows you
see right now and also with even with the content
like if it's for TikTok or if us for Social media,
whatever it is that I just don't want to keep
going to the same content over and over just because
the audience is asking for it, because it's gonna get
saturated or it's gonna get you know, tiring, So I
always have to go and change things up. So I'm
always gonna try to like say, okay, I need content
(01:29):
is something that I think the audience wants because I
need to go and do something to continue this program,
to keep going to it never stops. That's the area
where let's go in transition to what you're doing right
now with Good Listen. So you have the podcast up
on YouTube, the Good Listen podcast, and there's also other
content you had I'm trying to look right here, the
Authority Company podcast. You also have that as well. One
(01:49):
of those things is yes, of course in podcasting now
you can take the analytics and you can kind of
channel Okay, you have different people that are coming on
different facts, the ways of life, you're learning about their communications,
and you can take the analytics and say, okay, well
I need more guests that fit like this because the
analytics say so. But you don't necessarily have to go
that way because some guests just.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Come to you.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
However they come and that's not where the analytics will go. Lie,
You're gonna also go on your gut intuition.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, I think the biggest I think the big part
with people is when they come to a podcast, they think,
you know, if they want to make one like it
and it's going to be an interview style one. I
think a lot of people focus on, oh, I need
big guests, I need great guests, and you know my
day job or hey is I'm producing and consulting podcasts
all day long. And I tell people, yes, you want
(02:37):
good guests, but if you're not delivering on your side
of the agreement in terms of like getting what the
audience wants, it doesn't matter if you have good guests
or not, because essentially what will happen is people will
come to listen for that guest and not come back,
right you know. I think I think we all kind
of do this for like, even big podcasts like Joe Rogan.
(02:59):
I don't listen to him regularly, but if there's a
guest that appeals well, Bill Murray was on, I'll go
listen to the three hour Bill Murray Joe Rogan conversation.
I'm not gonna listen to Joe Rogan mm a conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Right, But you make a great point, Joe, and I
want to make this point across because in podcasting that
is one of my pet peas. And all this time
radio it was always about like you came to the
program because of the host that was there. Right, Todd
or Scott could have whoever they want on, but you
came because of them every day because that's what they wanted.
When it came to Howard, he could have, you know,
(03:30):
whatever host that he had to the every whatever guess
he had to the college come home. But for me,
I used to prefer the news right around ten o'clock.
I'd hear that because that was my most entertaining part
of the show. I could care less about the guests.
And like you said, Joe Rogan, you want to have
on Adam Curry, you want to have on somebody that
like talked about UFOs, Right, he can go have a
wide range. But it's also like at the end of
the day, the analytics say you can have who you
(03:53):
should have on, but also like the host needs to
be the reason you come back, and how important is
for you, like even with your own content that they
still have to have that foundation of like, Okay, the
host is good, knows how to ask good questions, so
that's why we could get interviews out of them. But
you don't want to just be We're like, Okay, this
interview sounds good because we're gonna hear with this person,
but it's like you'll only come back for that show,
(04:16):
not for every week.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Absolutely, And you know, I always I don't always liked
using the Joe Rogan comparison because it's hard to compare.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Wonds the same way, or you can see Andrew Schultz
or you get like all those whole that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Like I think we all do that.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
I mean, some of us may be a Joe Rogan
fan will listen to every episode, but I think on
average most people will probably just pop in to the
person they want to see. So I always bring that
up to people because and use.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
The example just because it's so easy to understand.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
But I remember I was working with a client ones
or and it was like it was a business podcast.
It was about like transformation behind the scenes with companies
and senior leadership, and it was mostly the host interviewing
like CEOs of like small medium businesses that's be's like
one to like one hundred employees. So the podcast will
(05:03):
get a couple of hundred downloads and such.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And it was fine, you know, for what it was.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
And during the process, I'm always pitching guests that could
be on the podcast. So I said to them, Hey, listen,
I have a contact at a large tech company telecommunications
company that works with like small businesses. Do you think
this person would be a good fit for the podcast?
And he's, oh, yeah, absolutely, So we get the person on.
(05:28):
This person works with this big telecom, shares it with
his with his with his network, and this telecom is gigantic,
think of the largest telecom companies.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
And this is who this person works for.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
And he's not that mind you, he's not the CEO
or like, you know, CFO.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Like this just like an SVP at one of these
big telecoms.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
This podcast went from a couple hundred downloads to five
thousand downloads. Wow, in just that one jump, because this
person shared it to his network. So the host calls
me up and says, oh, wow, that's great news. Does
this mean that the podcast is growing? And as you
can tell, Jorge, I'm pretty transparent and honest as possible.
And I said, no, not at all. It doesn't mean
(06:09):
that at all. It means that this person shared it
with a large audience. And so that's where you got
that jump. And I always coach people like, if you
want to build an audience, you steal an audience. So
you want to have people that have a large network.
But then there's also this, I mean, without getting two
in the weeds, hey, it's like, it's great to have
people to have large networks, but if that person decides
(06:30):
not to share it with their large network, it's sort
of like a tree falling in the forest. So like
you might have gotten this person on who's who has
a big, big fan base, but if they decide not
to share it, Like I remember, I had one client
I was working with and he had a huge rapper
as his guest, probably millions of millions of like followers
across social media platforms. He was super excited to get
(06:54):
this person. This is great, said rapper. Did not share
it with anybody? Didn't share it?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Oh no, yeah, And so I.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Said to the client, I'm like, hey, listen, I mean
that's part of part and parcel when you're dealing with
like I have a client now who's booked like a
bunch of a list guests, And I said to them, cosmetically,
it's going to look great that you have these people
like it.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
It will like the optics of it is great.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
But a list guests or as you know, they do
a lot of media, they do a lot of interviews,
they do a lot of shows, so they couldn't possibly
share all of the appearances that they would go on.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And so that's the sod of the catch twenty two.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Of like, oh man, if I get this guest, that's
good for my podcast, but it said guests doesn't share.
What's the point again, optics, Yes, that's nice that you
were able to get these guests, but if you're not
getting any long tail effect to it, what's the point right?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Well?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And also I hate this too because when I have
to go and deal with a new client that's going
to host a podcast with us, and they just say,
here's the dream list of who we won't have on
right off the bed, like listen, you don't even have
you you haven't even gone your first show yet, and
you're already asking them let me go and get you know,
Willie and Nelson Woody harrils and all these people that
are in whatever space is in the cannais space. When
I host do content there, they'll ask for the dream names.
(08:11):
And when we brought them on and I can't tell
you one show we did that with, and I'm like,
they were just not ready and I had to basically
just like piecemeal. You're I'm basically just give you the
questions and you just ask them because I can do
it for them. But the thing was that wasn't even
giving them the benefit of doing the show. That's just
them just kind of like getting to play radio hosts,
but they're not even doing their own work, their own
due diligence to create it. Plus the other thing I
(08:33):
can't stand is that when you're trying to train somebody,
before you even get to those guests learn the fundamentals
about what you need to do in the podcast. And
I think there's a lot of stuff from radio that
we take, and I'm sure you incorporate what you've learned
from radio in terms of timing, in terms of what
you need to do to keep the audience engaged. You're
always thinking of what the listeners are doing right now
when they listening to the interview, so you don't let
(08:54):
somebody just drown on for hour, for minutes and minutes
on an answer to a question because you know, sure,
you can go and do post production and clean it up,
but it's like, learn how to do it the first
time on the first take. Know what you're talking about.
B Because for me right now, every person that we
bring on as a client to make them a podcast host,
I wanted to be so good so they can get
(09:15):
it done on the first take. We don't have to
go and do a whole lot of editing around it, know,
a lot of humming and huhing, and you know, like
stuttering around trying to go and get their answer, get
a question out for an answer, and knowing, Okay, this
is what I want to learn from this, and know
within a certain amount of time you're keeping the audience's mind,
their time and their attention and focus. You're paying attention
to that. You want to make sure that you care
(09:37):
about somebody that's investing time every week to listen to
your content.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
No, I think it's great, and I think one of
the things that I've always embraced and it's sort of
like the mindset I carry from treshuel to. What I
do now is that everything is a show. And so
it's it's always hard to sort of like share that
with people because they don't get, like, what do you
mean everything's a show? And so when I mean everything
is a show is like if you've got a running
nose that day, still doing that show. If you're not
feeling one hundred percent, you're still doing that show. And
(10:04):
so it's always been really difficult for me to share
that with people. So I always use the model it's
like a podcast.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I tries.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
I'll say this to people, a podcast is not a meeting.
A podcast may look like a meeting in your in
your Google calendar or your eye cow, but it's not
a meeting.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
It's a show.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
I have just one client that it was our first
podcast we're working together, and it was like after hours
because they were based in the West Coast and I'm
in the East coast, and it.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Was like seven o'clock.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
And I'm pretty amenable with my clients like if they
if they for whatever reason, need to do after hours,
I'll make it.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I'll make it happen. So seven o'clock, I'm sitting around the.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Guest pops on and it's like seven or five, seven ten,
host doesn't show up.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I'm like filling up time with this guest.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I'm like talking about the weather, in the stock market,
whatever I can.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Meanwhile, I'm like frantically typing. I'm like, hello, where are you?
Speaker 4 (11:01):
And this person wrote back just a one line sentence. Oh,
I'm running behind. I'll be there when I'm done.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Oh my god, I know that feeling. I've had that.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Shore so I So one of the things when I
talk to people who want to get into podcasting, and
you're like, do it because you want to do it, Like,
don't do it because you think it's going to give
you fame or you're gonna get clicks and listens and views.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Do it because you love it, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
One of the first things I always ask a client
is like, you know, why do you want to do this?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Like why? And if they if they say.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Something like, oh, well, because you know everyone in my
industry is doing this, I'm like, oh, that's not that's
not where we start. Like the start is like, if
you don't love the idea of having conversations meeting people,
you know, I use the old joke that you know
that I use that I'm sure you've heard it. It's like,
you know, one podcast equals twenty first dates. It's like,
when do you ever have a one hour uninterrupted conversation
(11:56):
with another human being anymore? You know, how can you
you know, where can you make that connection any other medium?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
You can't. So I think the impact of having the podcast.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
And growing your network, sharing who you are, that's where
it starts. Like all the other stuff like fame downloads
riches from it. That's that's where it gets into the
marathon versus sprint. You know, when people talk about you know,
you know, how many downloads is this and that, I'm like,
it's not about that at the beginning. It's really not
because you because if it is, you'll just be disappointed.
(12:25):
Because and that's my thing, Like I always want people
to the one guarantee I always make to people as well,
two things I say. One you're going to enjoy the process,
and two you're gonna make great content that's gonna live infinity.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So that's all I control. The other stuff I can't.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
If you want to work with me for like ten years,
maybe we'll reach a point like that. But if you
want to if you're only working with me for six
to twelve months. There is no guarantee of any of that.
It's just it's just not it's not possible. I mean
that's why you see celebrity podcasts kind of come and go,
because they'll be like, oh, I should do this podcast
because I saw.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
That Joe Rogan signed one hundred million dollar deal.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Let me do this, and then all of a sudden
they go on and the podcast has no listeners and
they're not making a lot of money from like I'm
out of here, I'm not doing this.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I think it really has to start with you loving
the medium, and then the rest is sort of like
you know, cherry on top, gravy, whatever metaphor you want
to use the podcasts.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And today we have just people that have just become
celebrities overnight because they've been grassroots in the space and
they've just grown themselves. They're not just coming from somewhere
else just to put themselves out there. It's not gonna
be the same. So I want to really quickly go
through It's one of the things you have right now.
So there's your best knowing book. They're just good listen,
creating memorable conversations in business and life. And also you
created the podcast series which on your YouTube channel you
(13:38):
just finish up thirty seven episodes that looks like of
the series right now to go on to that. So
take me real quickly through the book and also the
podcast and how it compliments each other.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah, absolutely, so I was, you know, I'm sure you
all run into someone. And I think this world is
built of people that dream of writing a book and
then people who don't. And I was rarely in the
people who don't. Like I never thought in a million
years I would write a book. Not that I didn't
love reading books. I just never thought I had a
book in me. But what I made when I made
the transition from working interrescal radio to working in podcasting,
(14:12):
I really kind of took for granted everything I learned
and did over those twenty something years, and I was like, oh,
I'm just gonna do the same thing I did in
radio here.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
That's gonna be the same thing, right.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
But what I didn't realize was that I was working
with hall of fame talent, surrounded by incredibly talented people
who knew what they were doing behind a microphone. Yes,
and then I went into a world that people had
no freakin' idea what to do behind a microphone, and
so what I would do usually when it came to
coaching these people up was I would.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Use anecdotes from my career.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
So and I was very fortunate to have some really cool,
like celebrity run ins that I write about in the book,
and I used those not to name drop, but like, hey,
I learned this lesson from this experience with with with
this celebrity. As I started using these stories a bunch,
I went to my company is mainly a publisher, but
those media services, Uh, I said, hey, listen, is.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
This could this be a thing? You know how like
when comedians talk like is this a thing? Is this
a joke? So like is this a thing? And like, yeah,
that's a thing. We could That's that's a great idea.
So yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
So just then worked on it and published it a
couple of years ago. But it's it's it's it's I
don't want to say it's a business book because it's
really just like life lessons I learned on the air
that I think people could.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Use, whether it's for podcasting.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Like that's why I don't say, like it's not like
a how to podcasting guide. Uh, you know, it's it's
it's really more about like how to help you better communicate.
And obviously, if you're a podcaster, being the best communicator
possible is a good thing. Uh. And then also for
people that are not podcasters, you know, whether it's with relationships,
whether it's with you know, your work colleagues, whether it's
with sales. I think a lot of things I write
(15:54):
about are relatable to people in that way. And then
the podcast was sort of like an extension of that.
I just want to continue conversations with people and learn
their story because I think, you know, the tagline I
use it in the Good Listen podcast is like, you know,
everybody's got a story, you just have to listen.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
So I think that's part of it.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
And that's sort of like my my takeaway from the
book was, you know, like we all have a story
to tell, we just have to learn how to tell
that story. So yeah, and that's been it's been a
great journey with that and just I love like oh
and another thing I found funny too was I remember
when I transitioned from sort of like working in the
world of pop culture entertainment to business, was I kind
(16:32):
of had like a hot minute of like imposter syndrome,
like what the hell am I gonna? What do I
know about like rois and KPIs and all these acronyms
that they love in business. And I came to realize,
like very quickly, and part of my French I said,
it's all the same shit.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
It's just people telling stories. It really is.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
And so I'm fortunate enough to have been doing this
long enough that I remember my father than the Law
once told me, well, you could talk to anyone from
eight to eighty. And it's not because I'm anything special,
It's just that because I've been able to work on
my skills be able to have conversations with people, and
so that's what I love.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And it's funny, like.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
You know the business podcast I do, the authority company
one you mentioned, Like I'm talking like doctors and tech
CEOs and like what the hell do I know about
any of that stuff?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
But the best part is you're an interview You understand
how to interview, know how to get the right questions
and just kind of wrap your head around whatever that
content is so that you used to get the most
which is a great practice. By the way, I also
love the fact that not only do you just do
your you do the podcast, you've been able to write
the book, you also did the audiobook on it.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Yeah, and I will tell anyone who's about to do
an audiobook. I've been working in radio and audio my
entire life. There's nothing that I've ever done that's harder
than doing an audiobook.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Recording an audiobook is.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Really really really really really really one more really hard.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
You got to be patient. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
It has to be perfecied. You know.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
When radio we've kind of embraced an even podcasting, you
kind of embrace the organicness. If like a dog barks
in the background, or there's a car hoard, like you
leave it, it's fine. But in an audiobook, it's perfect
and pristine, and you have to like it. You conjunct
you can't conjunctify anything, like if you write in the
book I am not going, you can't write I'm I'm
(18:21):
I'm not on going. You can't like you can't like
change words or combined words. It has to be exactly
as it's written, so it was written.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I've done it.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
I did my own audiobook, and I've done several other audiobooks.
It was easier doing mine because it was obviously written
in my voice.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Uh, but Ben, it's so hard.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
But and I and I always tell people that I
don't I don't tell people that to scare them. I
just do it to warn them to like you know,
how a weather man says, you know, pack your patients.
Just make sure you go in knowing that it's not
going to be easy. It's going to take you a while.
And you probably if it's if the book is more than,
you know, two hundred pages, you probably should break it
(18:59):
up over span of a couple of days. Because if
you're not used to talking a lot, your voice will
go immediately, like your voice will get shot very quickly.
And so it's like your voice and is very much
like a muscle that I've sort of really worked on.
So my voice doesn't generally doesn't get tired, even though
I'm talking NonStop for like, you know, forty hours a week.
(19:21):
And it was funny this the other day, I had
a root canal. And nowadays when they do uh like
root canals, they have this thing called a pipe blocker,
which I've it's been a while since that root canal.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
So maybe this is more of a recent thing, but
it's this big.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
It's it's essentially a big rubber stopper that they put
in your mouth so your mouth just stays open the
entire time.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Oh my godness, because of.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
The fact that I talk so much. My jaw muscles
are like a muscles. They're so strong that like the
the the nurse or the hygienus was.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Like, well, your jaw muscles are strong.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Why you're And she didn't know what I did for
a living, but she's like, I've never never seen anyone's
job this strong before. And I'm like, and I'm thinking myself,
they probably don't have a lot of like radio or.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
You know, probably wouldn't know.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Yeah, but just go again. So again, I know it's
around about what way of me saying it's hard. Make
sure you're patient because you know people like me and
you whoor hate. You know, we've been doing this for
so long. We can take for granted some of the
fact that we can do this a lot longer than
most people because most people don't do it as much
as we do. So just that, I mean, again, I
don't want anyone to be convinced of not doing it,
(20:28):
especially if it's a nonfiction book, you should definitely do
your own audiook. If it's a fiction, you may want
to have someone who's an actor who could emote and
do all the performative stuff. But if it's a nonfiction book,
you should definitely voice your own audiobook.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Well, I'm fortunately were out of time, man, I could
have done one of those Joan roganstyle three hour interviews
we do for all this kind of here. But I
will say this coming out everything from everything I've read
about what you've done so far, and this is like
the best way to compliment is that there's something to
be said about somebody that works in radio or works
in media. That's a Swiss army knife. You have your
hands and you have a lot of different tools to
(20:59):
your tool chest. You definitely have done that, and we
need more people like you in the industry for podcasting.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
For me from a radio background, I don't care what
anybody thinks about like what radio is today, it's not
what it was. But there's so much you learn from
that experience that you incorporate now and look what you
be able to do with it, Like there's so much
media that you're doing it now and I'm sure there's
other things in your tool belt you could be using,
you could you know, probably incorporate now. But it's like
you're getting so much out of today. So I really
(21:27):
love everything you're doing right now and all the work
you're be able to going to do and also having
the success you had at to b PLJ and not
letting it be well, that's just gonna identify my career. No,
you're defining your career. Phase two is right now, and
here's a whole lot more room for you to go
and do a lot more so, Joe part of Villa,
I really appreciate you coming on and talking to me
about all this and you know, really it's been great.
(21:49):
So the book was again good listen creating memorable conversations
in business life. Of course, you have a YouTube page
at Joe and I just look on Google for Joe
part of Villa B A R D A V I
L A and that's it. We're going for there. Joe,
thanks for being on with me. Really appreciate you taking
time out.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Thank you or it's a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
M
And welcome back to the podcaster show. This is King
of the podcast here where you appreciate all of you
joining us, friending the program is always do, whether it
be Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Music, YouTube itself, Amazon Music
and all of the platform. Thank you for join us here.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
And my guest today has spent decades mastering the art
of our audio storytelling and effective communication. And he's a
New York City media veteran. Trust me when I say
and I tell you the accolades, you'll realize why it
was now producer at Scott and Todd in the Morning
ninety five point five, the w P l J and
New York. He's used that wisdom to his best selling
(00:54):
book Good Listen, and now leads the podcasting charge as
director podcasts for Advantage Media and Forbes Books, helping others
create content that deeply resonates. Joe part of elves with
me and thinks for being with me.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Joe, Ah, You're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I don't want to be one of those shows that
will come in because there's a lot of shows you
see right now and also with even with the content
like if it's for TikTok or if us for Social media,
whatever it is that I just don't want to keep
going to the same content over and over just because
the audience is asking for it, because it's gonna get
saturated or it's gonna get you know, tiring, So I
always have to go and change things up. So I'm
always gonna try to like say, okay, I need content
(01:29):
is something that I think the audience wants because I
need to go and do something to continue this program,
to keep going to it never stops. That's the area
where let's go in transition to what you're doing right
now with Good Listen. So you have the podcast up
on YouTube, the Good Listen podcast, and there's also other
content you had I'm trying to look right here, the
Authority Company podcast. You also have that as well. One
(01:49):
of those things is yes, of course in podcasting now
you can take the analytics and you can kind of
channel Okay, you have different people that are coming on
different facts, the ways of life, you're learning about their communications,
and you can take the analytics and say, okay, well
I need more guests that fit like this because the
analytics say so. But you don't necessarily have to go
that way because some guests just.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Come to you.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
However they come and that's not where the analytics will go. Lie,
You're gonna also go on your gut intuition.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, I think the biggest I think the big part
with people is when they come to a podcast, they think,
you know, if they want to make one like it
and it's going to be an interview style one. I
think a lot of people focus on, oh, I need
big guests, I need great guests, and you know my
day job or hey is I'm producing and consulting podcasts
all day long. And I tell people, yes, you want
(02:37):
good guests, but if you're not delivering on your side
of the agreement in terms of like getting what the
audience wants, it doesn't matter if you have good guests
or not, because essentially what will happen is people will
come to listen for that guest and not come back,
right you know. I think I think we all kind
of do this for like, even big podcasts like Joe Rogan.
(02:59):
I don't listen to him regularly, but if there's a
guest that appeals well, Bill Murray was on, I'll go
listen to the three hour Bill Murray Joe Rogan conversation.
I'm not gonna listen to Joe Rogan mm a conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Right, But you make a great point, Joe, and I
want to make this point across because in podcasting that
is one of my pet peas. And all this time
radio it was always about like you came to the
program because of the host that was there. Right, Todd
or Scott could have whoever they want on, but you
came because of them every day because that's what they wanted.
When it came to Howard, he could have, you know,
(03:30):
whatever host that he had to the every whatever guess
he had to the college come home. But for me,
I used to prefer the news right around ten o'clock.
I'd hear that because that was my most entertaining part
of the show. I could care less about the guests.
And like you said, Joe Rogan, you want to have
on Adam Curry, you want to have on somebody that
like talked about UFOs, Right, he can go have a
wide range. But it's also like at the end of
the day, the analytics say you can have who you
(03:53):
should have on, but also like the host needs to
be the reason you come back, and how important is
for you, like even with your own content that they
still have to have that foundation of like, Okay, the
host is good, knows how to ask good questions, so
that's why we could get interviews out of them. But
you don't want to just be We're like, Okay, this
interview sounds good because we're gonna hear with this person,
but it's like you'll only come back for that show,
(04:16):
not for every week.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Absolutely, And you know, I always I don't always liked
using the Joe Rogan comparison because it's hard to compare.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Wonds the same way, or you can see Andrew Schultz
or you get like all those whole that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Like I think we all do that.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
I mean, some of us may be a Joe Rogan
fan will listen to every episode, but I think on
average most people will probably just pop in to the
person they want to see. So I always bring that
up to people because and use.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
The example just because it's so easy to understand.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
But I remember I was working with a client ones
or and it was like it was a business podcast.
It was about like transformation behind the scenes with companies
and senior leadership, and it was mostly the host interviewing
like CEOs of like small medium businesses that's be's like
one to like one hundred employees. So the podcast will
(05:03):
get a couple of hundred downloads and such.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And it was fine, you know, for what it was.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
And during the process, I'm always pitching guests that could
be on the podcast. So I said to them, Hey, listen,
I have a contact at a large tech company telecommunications
company that works with like small businesses. Do you think
this person would be a good fit for the podcast?
And he's, oh, yeah, absolutely, So we get the person on.
(05:28):
This person works with this big telecom, shares it with
his with his with his network, and this telecom is gigantic,
think of the largest telecom companies.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
And this is who this person works for.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
And he's not that mind you, he's not the CEO
or like, you know, CFO.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Like this just like an SVP at one of these
big telecoms.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
This podcast went from a couple hundred downloads to five
thousand downloads. Wow, in just that one jump, because this
person shared it to his network. So the host calls
me up and says, oh, wow, that's great news. Does
this mean that the podcast is growing? And as you
can tell, Jorge, I'm pretty transparent and honest as possible.
And I said, no, not at all. It doesn't mean
(06:09):
that at all. It means that this person shared it
with a large audience. And so that's where you got
that jump. And I always coach people like, if you
want to build an audience, you steal an audience. So
you want to have people that have a large network.
But then there's also this, I mean, without getting two
in the weeds, hey, it's like, it's great to have
people to have large networks, but if that person decides
(06:30):
not to share it with their large network, it's sort
of like a tree falling in the forest. So like
you might have gotten this person on who's who has
a big, big fan base, but if they decide not
to share it, Like I remember, I had one client
I was working with and he had a huge rapper
as his guest, probably millions of millions of like followers
across social media platforms. He was super excited to get
(06:54):
this person. This is great, said rapper. Did not share
it with anybody? Didn't share it?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Oh no, yeah, And so I.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Said to the client, I'm like, hey, listen, I mean
that's part of part and parcel when you're dealing with
like I have a client now who's booked like a
bunch of a list guests, And I said to them, cosmetically,
it's going to look great that you have these people
like it.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
It will like the optics of it is great.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
But a list guests or as you know, they do
a lot of media, they do a lot of interviews,
they do a lot of shows, so they couldn't possibly
share all of the appearances that they would go on.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And so that's the sod of the catch twenty two.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Of like, oh man, if I get this guest, that's
good for my podcast, but it said guests doesn't share.
What's the point again, optics, Yes, that's nice that you
were able to get these guests, but if you're not
getting any long tail effect to it, what's the point right?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Well?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And also I hate this too because when I have
to go and deal with a new client that's going
to host a podcast with us, and they just say,
here's the dream list of who we won't have on
right off the bed, like listen, you don't even have
you you haven't even gone your first show yet, and
you're already asking them let me go and get you know,
Willie and Nelson Woody harrils and all these people that
are in whatever space is in the cannais space. When
I host do content there, they'll ask for the dream names.
(08:11):
And when we brought them on and I can't tell
you one show we did that with, and I'm like,
they were just not ready and I had to basically
just like piecemeal. You're I'm basically just give you the
questions and you just ask them because I can do
it for them. But the thing was that wasn't even
giving them the benefit of doing the show. That's just
them just kind of like getting to play radio hosts,
but they're not even doing their own work, their own
due diligence to create it. Plus the other thing I
(08:33):
can't stand is that when you're trying to train somebody,
before you even get to those guests learn the fundamentals
about what you need to do in the podcast. And
I think there's a lot of stuff from radio that
we take, and I'm sure you incorporate what you've learned
from radio in terms of timing, in terms of what
you need to do to keep the audience engaged. You're
always thinking of what the listeners are doing right now
when they listening to the interview, so you don't let
(08:54):
somebody just drown on for hour, for minutes and minutes
on an answer to a question because you know, sure,
you can go and do post production and clean it up,
but it's like, learn how to do it the first
time on the first take. Know what you're talking about.
B Because for me right now, every person that we
bring on as a client to make them a podcast host,
I wanted to be so good so they can get
(09:15):
it done on the first take. We don't have to
go and do a whole lot of editing around it, know,
a lot of humming and huhing, and you know, like
stuttering around trying to go and get their answer, get
a question out for an answer, and knowing, Okay, this
is what I want to learn from this, and know
within a certain amount of time you're keeping the audience's mind,
their time and their attention and focus. You're paying attention
to that. You want to make sure that you care
(09:37):
about somebody that's investing time every week to listen to
your content.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
No, I think it's great, and I think one of
the things that I've always embraced and it's sort of
like the mindset I carry from treshuel to. What I
do now is that everything is a show. And so
it's it's always hard to sort of like share that
with people because they don't get, like, what do you
mean everything's a show? And so when I mean everything
is a show is like if you've got a running
nose that day, still doing that show. If you're not
feeling one hundred percent, you're still doing that show. And
(10:04):
so it's always been really difficult for me to share
that with people. So I always use the model it's
like a podcast.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I tries.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
I'll say this to people, a podcast is not a meeting.
A podcast may look like a meeting in your in
your Google calendar or your eye cow, but it's not
a meeting.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
It's a show.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
I have just one client that it was our first
podcast we're working together, and it was like after hours
because they were based in the West Coast and I'm
in the East coast, and it.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Was like seven o'clock.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
And I'm pretty amenable with my clients like if they
if they for whatever reason, need to do after hours,
I'll make it.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I'll make it happen. So seven o'clock, I'm sitting around the.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Guest pops on and it's like seven or five, seven ten,
host doesn't show up.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I'm like filling up time with this guest.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I'm like talking about the weather, in the stock market,
whatever I can.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Meanwhile, I'm like frantically typing. I'm like, hello, where are you?
Speaker 4 (11:01):
And this person wrote back just a one line sentence. Oh,
I'm running behind. I'll be there when I'm done.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Oh my god, I know that feeling. I've had that.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Shore so I So one of the things when I
talk to people who want to get into podcasting, and
you're like, do it because you want to do it, Like,
don't do it because you think it's going to give
you fame or you're gonna get clicks and listens and views.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Do it because you love it, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
One of the first things I always ask a client
is like, you know, why do you want to do this?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Like why? And if they if they say.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Something like, oh, well, because you know everyone in my
industry is doing this, I'm like, oh, that's not that's
not where we start. Like the start is like, if
you don't love the idea of having conversations meeting people,
you know, I use the old joke that you know
that I use that I'm sure you've heard it. It's like,
you know, one podcast equals twenty first dates. It's like,
when do you ever have a one hour uninterrupted conversation
(11:56):
with another human being anymore? You know, how can you
you know, where can you make that connection any other medium?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
You can't. So I think the impact of having the podcast.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
And growing your network, sharing who you are, that's where
it starts. Like all the other stuff like fame downloads
riches from it. That's that's where it gets into the
marathon versus sprint. You know, when people talk about you know,
you know, how many downloads is this and that, I'm like,
it's not about that at the beginning. It's really not
because you because if it is, you'll just be disappointed.
(12:25):
Because and that's my thing, Like I always want people
to the one guarantee I always make to people as well,
two things I say. One you're going to enjoy the process,
and two you're gonna make great content that's gonna live infinity.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So that's all I control. The other stuff I can't.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
If you want to work with me for like ten years,
maybe we'll reach a point like that. But if you
want to if you're only working with me for six
to twelve months. There is no guarantee of any of that.
It's just it's just not it's not possible. I mean
that's why you see celebrity podcasts kind of come and go,
because they'll be like, oh, I should do this podcast
because I saw.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
That Joe Rogan signed one hundred million dollar deal.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Let me do this, and then all of a sudden
they go on and the podcast has no listeners and
they're not making a lot of money from like I'm
out of here, I'm not doing this.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I think it really has to start with you loving
the medium, and then the rest is sort of like
you know, cherry on top, gravy, whatever metaphor you want
to use the podcasts.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And today we have just people that have just become
celebrities overnight because they've been grassroots in the space and
they've just grown themselves. They're not just coming from somewhere
else just to put themselves out there. It's not gonna
be the same. So I want to really quickly go
through It's one of the things you have right now.
So there's your best knowing book. They're just good listen,
creating memorable conversations in business and life. And also you
created the podcast series which on your YouTube channel you
(13:38):
just finish up thirty seven episodes that looks like of
the series right now to go on to that. So
take me real quickly through the book and also the
podcast and how it compliments each other.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah, absolutely, so I was, you know, I'm sure you
all run into someone. And I think this world is
built of people that dream of writing a book and
then people who don't. And I was rarely in the
people who don't. Like I never thought in a million
years I would write a book. Not that I didn't
love reading books. I just never thought I had a
book in me. But what I made when I made
the transition from working interrescal radio to working in podcasting,
(14:12):
I really kind of took for granted everything I learned
and did over those twenty something years, and I was like, oh,
I'm just gonna do the same thing I did in
radio here.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
That's gonna be the same thing, right.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
But what I didn't realize was that I was working
with hall of fame talent, surrounded by incredibly talented people
who knew what they were doing behind a microphone. Yes,
and then I went into a world that people had
no freakin' idea what to do behind a microphone, and
so what I would do usually when it came to
coaching these people up was I would.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Use anecdotes from my career.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
So and I was very fortunate to have some really cool,
like celebrity run ins that I write about in the book,
and I used those not to name drop, but like, hey,
I learned this lesson from this experience with with with
this celebrity. As I started using these stories a bunch,
I went to my company is mainly a publisher, but
those media services, Uh, I said, hey, listen, is.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
This could this be a thing? You know how like
when comedians talk like is this a thing? Is this
a joke? So like is this a thing? And like, yeah,
that's a thing. We could That's that's a great idea.
So yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
So just then worked on it and published it a
couple of years ago. But it's it's it's it's I
don't want to say it's a business book because it's
really just like life lessons I learned on the air
that I think people could.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Use, whether it's for podcasting.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Like that's why I don't say, like it's not like
a how to podcasting guide. Uh, you know, it's it's
it's really more about like how to help you better communicate.
And obviously, if you're a podcaster, being the best communicator
possible is a good thing. Uh. And then also for
people that are not podcasters, you know, whether it's with relationships,
whether it's with you know, your work colleagues, whether it's
with sales. I think a lot of things I write
(15:54):
about are relatable to people in that way. And then
the podcast was sort of like an extension of that.
I just want to continue conversations with people and learn
their story because I think, you know, the tagline I
use it in the Good Listen podcast is like, you know,
everybody's got a story, you just have to listen.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
So I think that's part of it.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
And that's sort of like my my takeaway from the
book was, you know, like we all have a story
to tell, we just have to learn how to tell
that story. So yeah, and that's been it's been a
great journey with that and just I love like oh
and another thing I found funny too was I remember
when I transitioned from sort of like working in the
world of pop culture entertainment to business, was I kind
(16:32):
of had like a hot minute of like imposter syndrome,
like what the hell am I gonna? What do I
know about like rois and KPIs and all these acronyms
that they love in business. And I came to realize,
like very quickly, and part of my French I said,
it's all the same shit.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
It's just people telling stories. It really is.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
And so I'm fortunate enough to have been doing this
long enough that I remember my father than the Law
once told me, well, you could talk to anyone from
eight to eighty. And it's not because I'm anything special,
It's just that because I've been able to work on
my skills be able to have conversations with people, and
so that's what I love.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And it's funny, like.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
You know the business podcast I do, the authority company
one you mentioned, Like I'm talking like doctors and tech
CEOs and like what the hell do I know about
any of that stuff?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
But the best part is you're an interview You understand
how to interview, know how to get the right questions
and just kind of wrap your head around whatever that
content is so that you used to get the most
which is a great practice. By the way, I also
love the fact that not only do you just do
your you do the podcast, you've been able to write
the book, you also did the audiobook on it.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Yeah, and I will tell anyone who's about to do
an audiobook. I've been working in radio and audio my
entire life. There's nothing that I've ever done that's harder
than doing an audiobook.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Recording an audiobook is.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Really really really really really really one more really hard.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
You got to be patient. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
It has to be perfecied. You know.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
When radio we've kind of embraced an even podcasting, you
kind of embrace the organicness. If like a dog barks
in the background, or there's a car hoard, like you
leave it, it's fine. But in an audiobook, it's perfect
and pristine, and you have to like it. You conjunct
you can't conjunctify anything, like if you write in the
book I am not going, you can't write I'm I'm
(18:21):
I'm not on going. You can't like you can't like
change words or combined words. It has to be exactly
as it's written, so it was written.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I've done it.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
I did my own audiobook, and I've done several other audiobooks.
It was easier doing mine because it was obviously written
in my voice.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Uh, but Ben, it's so hard.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
But and I and I always tell people that I
don't I don't tell people that to scare them. I
just do it to warn them to like you know,
how a weather man says, you know, pack your patients.
Just make sure you go in knowing that it's not
going to be easy. It's going to take you a while.
And you probably if it's if the book is more than,
you know, two hundred pages, you probably should break it
(18:59):
up over span of a couple of days. Because if
you're not used to talking a lot, your voice will
go immediately, like your voice will get shot very quickly.
And so it's like your voice and is very much
like a muscle that I've sort of really worked on.
So my voice doesn't generally doesn't get tired, even though
I'm talking NonStop for like, you know, forty hours a week.
(19:21):
And it was funny this the other day, I had
a root canal. And nowadays when they do uh like
root canals, they have this thing called a pipe blocker,
which I've it's been a while since that root canal.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
So maybe this is more of a recent thing, but
it's this big.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
It's it's essentially a big rubber stopper that they put
in your mouth so your mouth just stays open the
entire time.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Oh my godness, because of.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
The fact that I talk so much. My jaw muscles
are like a muscles. They're so strong that like the
the the nurse or the hygienus was.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Like, well, your jaw muscles are strong.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Why you're And she didn't know what I did for
a living, but she's like, I've never never seen anyone's
job this strong before. And I'm like, and I'm thinking myself,
they probably don't have a lot of like radio or.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
You know, probably wouldn't know.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Yeah, but just go again. So again, I know it's
around about what way of me saying it's hard. Make
sure you're patient because you know people like me and
you whoor hate. You know, we've been doing this for
so long. We can take for granted some of the
fact that we can do this a lot longer than
most people because most people don't do it as much
as we do. So just that, I mean, again, I
don't want anyone to be convinced of not doing it,
(20:28):
especially if it's a nonfiction book, you should definitely do
your own audiook. If it's a fiction, you may want
to have someone who's an actor who could emote and
do all the performative stuff. But if it's a nonfiction book,
you should definitely voice your own audiobook.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Well, I'm fortunately were out of time, man, I could
have done one of those Joan roganstyle three hour interviews
we do for all this kind of here. But I
will say this coming out everything from everything I've read
about what you've done so far, and this is like
the best way to compliment is that there's something to
be said about somebody that works in radio or works
in media. That's a Swiss army knife. You have your
hands and you have a lot of different tools to
(20:59):
your tool chest. You definitely have done that, and we
need more people like you in the industry for podcasting.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
For me from a radio background, I don't care what
anybody thinks about like what radio is today, it's not
what it was. But there's so much you learn from
that experience that you incorporate now and look what you
be able to do with it, Like there's so much
media that you're doing it now and I'm sure there's
other things in your tool belt you could be using,
you could you know, probably incorporate now. But it's like
you're getting so much out of today. So I really
(21:27):
love everything you're doing right now and all the work
you're be able to going to do and also having
the success you had at to b PLJ and not
letting it be well, that's just gonna identify my career. No,
you're defining your career. Phase two is right now, and
here's a whole lot more room for you to go
and do a lot more so, Joe part of Villa,
I really appreciate you coming on and talking to me
about all this and you know, really it's been great.
(21:49):
So the book was again good listen creating memorable conversations
in business life. Of course, you have a YouTube page
at Joe and I just look on Google for Joe
part of Villa B A R D A V I
L A and that's it. We're going for there. Joe,
thanks for being on with me. Really appreciate you taking
time out.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Thank you or it's a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
M
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