October 14, 2025 • 29 mins
Podcasters Row explores the growing tension between creating short-form video clips and maintaining a valuable full-length (long-form) podcast.
Historically, short content—like movie trailers or TV teasers—served as an "appetizer" to the "full course," a necessary gateway to get an audience to consume the whole product.
However, the current media environment, fueled by platforms like TikTok and YouTube Shorts, means audiences may now only want the appetizer to go with their drink.
The goal for podcasters is to convert listeners from the short clip to the long-form content, hoping they'll want to binge the entire program.
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Support KOP by subscribing to his YouTube channel and search for King Of Podcasts
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Historically, short content—like movie trailers or TV teasers—served as an "appetizer" to the "full course," a necessary gateway to get an audience to consume the whole product.
However, the current media environment, fueled by platforms like TikTok and YouTube Shorts, means audiences may now only want the appetizer to go with their drink.
The goal for podcasters is to convert listeners from the short clip to the long-form content, hoping they'll want to binge the entire program.
Contact KOP for professional podcast production, imaging, and web design services at http://www.kingofpodcasts.com
Support KOP by subscribing to his YouTube channel and search for King Of Podcasts
Follow KOP on X or TikTok or LinkedIn @kingofpodcasts
Find KOP’s other programs, Depraved and Debaucherous , the Wrestling is Real Wrestling Podcast and The Broadcasters Podcast at http://www.kingofpodcasts.com
Buy KOP a Coffee https://buymeacoffee.com/kingofpodcasts
Drop KOP a PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=3TAB983ZQPNVL
Drop KOP a CashApp https://cash.app/$kingofallpodcasts
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/podcasters-row-hosted-by-kingofpodcasts--5922450/support.
Contact KOP for professional podcast production, imaging, and web design services at http://www.kingofpodcasts.com
Support KOP by subscribing to his YouTube channel and search for King Of Podcasts
Follow KOP on X and TikTok @kingofpodcasts (F Meta!)
Listen to KOP’s other programs, Podcasters Row… and the Wrestling is Real Wrestling Podcast and The Broadcasters Podcast.
Buy KOP a Coffee https://buymeacoffee.com/kingofpodcasts
Drop KOP a PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=3TAB983ZQPNVL
Drop KOP a Venmo https://account.venmo.com/u/kingofpodcasts
Drop KOP a CashApp https://cash.app/$kingofallpodcasts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And welcome back to the podcasting show. This is King
of the podcast here where you appreciate all of you
joining us fronting the program that you always do, whether
it be Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube music, YouTube itself, Amazon
Music and all other platforms. Thank you for every time
go and join us here and tweaking, testing, tuning, trying
to get the right content out. You know, it's one
(00:29):
thing to do short and long form content. We know
it's much more common now than ever that you know
in television news you always had to tease to a
story you wanted to make sure somebody would watch later on,
or a promo for a TV series, or a trailer
for a movie. We've always had short form content to
(00:50):
be the gateway, the appetizer to somebody taking on the
full course. Right And just like we go at a restaurant,
sometimes you don't want to well, of course, you just
want an appetiser to go with your drink, your beverage,
your tasty spirit that you have in hand. So if
you decide to do that, that's your choice. But you
(01:11):
can always make sure somebody will catch your content. If
there's one common thing that you would heard to is
that every minute of your content has to count. You
need to make sure that you are entertaining and forming
doing something with your content. You don't need to go
and fill a time slot, especially when you're a podcast,
just to fill a time slot. Obviously, on the TV
shows now that are streaming or movies that are out
(01:34):
there in theaters are streaming, there's a set time that
you have to put in. And for movies that want
to go and take time and edit down their program
to make sure they're putting just the right amount of
content on how often do you see a series that
(01:54):
will have an episode and the time of the episode
will be different than the next episode because because you're
finding a proper place in the story to stop the
story to begin the next chapter of the story. When
you're doing real time content or doing timely content, you know,
(02:14):
like I do. The thing is, besides the fact of
what content you're going to deliver, you have to make
sure that if you're gonna have somebody listen to your program,
you want to get the listeners to go to the
longer form content, to the full actual program. You want
them to want to binge watch your program, binge listen
(02:38):
to your program. That's what you want. And so there's
a story that comes out right off the bat, and
this is something that is This is they talk about
the risk of short form video. This is from a
Bloomberg newsletter story. So Kara Swisher, the co host of Pivot,
she was speaking with her guest co host Tim Miller
of The Bulwark about this podcast the Board, and she
(03:01):
admits that she doesn't regularly consume the show on a
podcast app. Quote, you know where I listened to it? Oh,
listen on social media. I listened to pieces and pieces.
And then the writer here says that they had a
similar realization about their own viewing habits or listening habits.
(03:22):
Scholling on TikTok, came across the clip from a podcast.
Didn't want to name the show, but the interviewing topics
something interested in, they were interested in, and they watched,
took down the headline where the item that the clip
was built around swiped away without hearing the entire episode
or even the rest of that segment. The clip's more
sol of information was enough for me. This story goes
(03:45):
on to say that as podcasters of RUSSI in the
video part of the promise that the powerful algorithms behind TikTok,
Instagram and even the YouTube shorts can improve discovery and
wrote in new audience members. But many podcasters are even
paying armies of video savvy marketers notice clippers, the saturate
social media with enticing exibits of their shows engineer into irresistible,
(04:06):
buzzy tidbits designed to grab your attention. And I'm gonna
take from a story from The Wall Sat Journal that
goes into that that recently published on that. As they
referred to the question is how effective was the ubiquitous
short form videos at driving an audience to a full
length podcast? They talked to the co founder at Bumper,
(04:28):
a podcast audience development company, quote, It's nowhere near as
impactful as people want. Quote. The disappointment that I have
see for creators often stems from lack of clarity around
what clips are in service of. If hosts expect the
clips to pick up vast numbers of new audience members
for their full length show, that likely won't happen. Think
about the amount of friction exists between seeing a clip
(04:49):
and then consuming it elsewhere, especially when you were scrolling
rather than listening to a podcast or in the mood
to listen to. They go on to say that I
used to think a clip on Socialist Marketing Global for
a full episode a trailer for the movie isn't a movie.
Increasingly my mind is changing about that there's a tremendous
amount of attention that comes in little slices. Now. I
(05:14):
spoke to someone for the bull working about their clips,
saying that short form video content has become a similicated
driver of our growth, and it helps drive the conversation
and get people in front of our new audiences across
all platforms, a significant driver of subscription growth. A spokesperson
who didn't say whether who watches the clips definitely convert
(05:35):
to full time listeners, but they said they racked up
one hundred and thirty two and a half million views
on x over the past three months, and I'll YouTube
shorts thirty eight point seven million, and I'll TikTok ten
point three million views. This Bloomberg article goes on to
talk about that the audiences with both formats appear to
be diverging. Depending on how the industry shakes out, that
(05:55):
could end up being a totally fine thing for the business,
and from Bumper goes on to say that affective podcasters
often don't mind that their clips fail to convert because
they make money off their social media accounts by something
ad packages that span both products. But the downside of
heavy clipping is that also disrupts the primary source of
the podcasts revenue, the full length episodes of shows and
(06:17):
the substantial adventories they delivered the listeners. The current dynamic
of podcasting in some ways is reminiscent of what we've
seen in late night TV. No shortage of funny, provocative
clips highlighting juicy on air moments. But despite the cost
a matter of how entertaining these shows can be, when
was the last time you sat down and watching an
entire episode as it aired? Aggressionally publishing highlight clips has
(06:40):
been doubtedly a great way to keep the performers alive
in the cultures like Geist, but over time it's also
efvictively taught us that all you don't have to no
longer actively see out the shows to get their best moments,
because the same thing we happen in the podcasting Okay huh.
In my opinion, these short form content should not be
(07:03):
of your best content. What you should do and this
is what I do myself. In my content. I usually
try to find something that is going to be something
that I will say on a monologue or take a
particular clip and plan for it to be in social media.
(07:23):
I'm not gonna just pick some random clip that will
just satisfy a short form. I actually kind of plan
on it. So when I do these kind of episodes,
there will be a spot where I'll know, Okay, I'm
gonna say this here because I'm gonna make my point,
I'm gonna give my take. It'll be within the timeframe
(07:45):
that I need. Ninety seconds is about as much as
I need to go because I'm trying to adhere to
all the different platforms. Of course, you can go longer,
but I think two minutes is too long. It's about
us more than you need. Two minutes is stretching it.
Sixty to ninety seconds, thirty seconds if you can get it,
and you can get the full throated take that you
(08:07):
want to make sure, but sixty to ninety seconds. And
also I don't take the full clips sometimes as it's recorded,
sometimes I will spice together because it's audio. And more importantly,
I don't care to do video because the talking head
(08:28):
doesn't make a difference to anybody else anyway, unless I
had a companying b roll video to go with it.
But if you see any of my clips out there,
you know I'm not that big of an audience anyway.
Sometimes I might get a good audience on something that
I might say that will grab attention. If I get
the right caption out there, it works. But whatever content
(08:50):
I do, it's just my own. I want to make
sure that if somebody's gonna go and look at the clip,
the most important thing we're gonna do is I'm gonna
make sure I'm promoting my platform. So one website one
you are all Kingopodcasts dot com, YouTube at King of Podcasts,
so they can find the video version of the show.
That's it, And even the video vision is slate because
(09:12):
I'm not doing any more than just creating a visual
slate with captions. That's all I'm gonna go and do
to create something that's gonna be a visual medium that
will be good enough for somebody to watch. Wish are
not gonna watch. They're just gonna put on YouTube and
listen to it. And sometimes it happens to work really well.
But I mean, I make it pretty easy to go
(09:34):
ahead and clip on my shows, I basically will do
two clips per episode about as much as I need.
Sometimes if it's less than thirty minutes, I'll do one clip,
But I don't need to do anything more than that
because if I do that there, i'll have the clips
I want to do. There's a whole lot of content
I'm gonna be covering. But it doesn't also matter where
(09:58):
I pull from the episode either, because I also want
to make it where it's not something always from the beginning.
I wanted to be similar to the middle to the end.
But I'll plan on what I'm going to basically say.
If I catch myself at a point where I, okay,
I said this, and I kind of make a known
of it mentally, I'm going to come back and pull
that clip and put it into a format that can
(10:20):
put it out there for social media. Because the other
thing is is that that short from content, you know,
you might get a lot of attention to it, the
most possible attention you probably get to a clip or
to your content. But it's also the fact is that
I want to make sure I have captions in there
so people can just go and catch the words at
(10:42):
least I'll catch that, because if they're watching on their
phone or table or whatever they're going to be listening
on or watching on, they might not have their full
attention to it, and they might be allowed place. So
you want to make sure that they have multiple ways
to consume what you're saying, or they can read what
you're saying. That's more important to me than anything else
in a short form clip. But for me to say,
(11:06):
you know, it's tough on the content that you make.
Now when you're doing interviews, some people have learned to
go Joe Rogan style and just pick a long interview
to go with and just pick something that's going to
work out of that particular interview that you want to take.
But some people will probably get the impression that they're
(11:27):
getting the best clip possible. So why even go ahead
and go back to the show Because for some of
these shows, yeah, I mean a show like The Bullwark
without any political animus or anything like that at all.
I'm just saying objectively, the Bullwork is going to talk
about whatever news events that are going on or whatever
(11:49):
political stories that everybody else is talking about. Remember that
a political show that is talking about the same thing
that plenty of other political podcasts they're talking about right now.
So when you got that, the difference is what is
your voice saying about it? Once you report the story,
what is your opinion your editorial? And that's what you
(12:12):
have to figure out, and that might just be the
only thing worth listening to on that particular episode. So
what Kara Switcher says that, I mean, she's saying the
fact that Tim Miller and Kara Swisher probably have the
same kind of political mindset. They both have parallel views
on what they think about politically. So it's not a
(12:33):
matter of going back to the episode to hear the
whole thing, especially if they're both busy you don't have time.
But the clip satisfies because Karriswitcher got to hear Tim
Miller make his point, and that's it. And there's plenty
of times where somebody will it's not even the fact
that if it's somebody from the show that clips the episode.
(12:55):
The one thing that happens more than anything on X
is there are people that are media watchdogs out there,
whether they are official organizations that are media watchdogs or
just people out there that just clip up content that's
not theirs, but they're using the right to go and
put that content up there so people can catch it.
(13:15):
So I need to go listen to a whole episode.
I can't say how many times, so many already putting
out a clip from the Breakfast Club or from you
know whatever cable channel or you know, any streamer like
an I Show Speed or Drew Ski. You see it.
I'm not gonna go back and go find this long
form video. I mean, I could go find an I
Show Speed channel or Drew Ski channel or you know,
(13:37):
Neon or whatever else. I could go look for all
these different streamers and all or live streaming of whatever
there is. I could go look for it. But it's
also the convenience of where you're gonna find that content.
I mean, the one thing I think that most of
these clips don't have, especially as these are people that
are doing their own program. You're gonna assume that they
(14:00):
know where to find your show. And it doesn't mean
you put a little end cap on the episode or
that protuto short form clip and say, okay, catch it here, No,
you want that burned in to the whole clip. I
don't think people realize that. For me, that was the
(14:20):
most important thing I started doing two years ago when
I started doing clips, because I know the first thing
I had to do off the bat was I got
to promote the website first and foremost. Once I did that,
and then I started promoting the YouTube feed. Once I
started to promoting the YouTube feed on every audio clip
or any audiogram that I do, they got me subscribers.
(14:45):
It was the best way to get subscribers because somewhere,
somehow they've caught that video, that audiogram, and then they
catch it and think, all right, here we go, and
then I go ahead and push it over to social
media that my channels get some traction, some traffic. So
I'm not worried about monetizing these particular profits because I'm
(15:06):
a YouTube feed. I don't have it monetized yet. The
bars all too high for me to get there. I
got the subscriber count, I don't have the watch hours,
So for me, I have to work on getting my
content to be to where they're talking about here. You
get the real money on the YouTube feed if you
put on content that is long form and you get
(15:31):
a TSL a time spent listening measurement that goes well
enough to bring your watch hours to a certain minimum
and then you go ahead and be able to monetize it,
which is where I'm at right now. So that's more
my more my important things. Now when it comes to
the shore from content, I also have to keep in
(15:53):
mind that on social media, I'm not expecting to go
ahead and pull people out of nowhere to go and
catch my for you page, whether it's X or TikTok
or LinkedIn or whatever, and they're going to catch the feed.
Like Spotify, they're good about their algorithm to say, Okay,
the algorithm is going to help you with that short
form content to help you find an audience. That's fine,
(16:15):
but I don't think it's always the biggest driver of
that either, because I know for myself, there's not a
lot of stuff I put out there myself that goes
viral on TikTok or LinkedIn or X. What I get
the most viral is, you know, some of the YouTube
(16:36):
shorts gets it. But what I've gotten viral are YouTube videos,
which is on my longer form content. And some of
my content I did out there was like the ten
sixty minute Variety when I was doing one I'm not podcasting,
and some of those videos actually did pretty good. But
now on some of the other programming, it's half our
(16:58):
six sixty minute show, and I'm getting some shows where
I'll get somebody to good listening. Listeners will be good
and stick around for like ten to fifteen minutes. The
biggest thing is to be able to measure what the
time spent listening is on your podcast. It's very important
to go and follow that. It's one of the metrics
(17:19):
that I miss When Stitcher used to be around. Stitcher
used to give us that stat of the length of
how long somebody would listen to a podcast. I believe
Apple did that as well, but I don't think they
have that anymore. And I missed that part because that
was something that was really really good and if I
(17:41):
had that still, I was still good and find my
way to go and get around. But we don't have
that anymore. So it's unfortunate we don't have that, and
Spotify doesn't give me that either. I wish it did.
So for instance, I'm looking right now on my Apple
podcast connect section for stats. Let's just that's okay, broadcasters podcast.
(18:01):
Here's a good example. All right, I'm up followers three percent.
My listener count is up forty eight percent. That's good.
My plays are up forty eight percent. They give me
the time listening and it's twelve hours listen. It's not
that much, really, it's not. And that I have of
(18:22):
my listeners that a certain amount are following and a
certain amount are not falling, and are I going to
the episodes themselves. It'll show me the average consumption and
they only give me percentages, So like certain episodes, I'll
get sixty five percent, thirty two percent, and some of
(18:43):
the others I don't get much of anything else, So
I get to see that part, which doesn't give me
much to work off of. If I go to my
series to pray them. Debauchress numbers are up on their
twenty one percent, up on followers, twelve percent up on listeners,
twenty one percent up on place great time listened. It's
(19:04):
a little bit better. And I get a lot more
people that are not following my program that are listening longer,
which is interesting. And if I look at some of
the episodes that I do now, some of them do
better where I get eighty percent of average consumption of
an episode, which is nice. Nine percent sixty percent, that's great,
But for me. What I'm learning about is that I
(19:28):
need to find a way to find the right content.
And it's also the part where like when you're trying
to create content, it's difficult to go in not get
put into a hole of doing the same stuff over
and over, because that's the other part that people can
try to do themselves as well, is micro broadcast what
(19:49):
they're doing so on the same one topic, which gets
run to the ground because people really got into it
and that's what the metrics say. To God and follow
along and then you try to do what you can do.
I do it though so much that's just not something
that's sustainable. The problem is that these analytics I get
when I look at also my Spotify feed is it's
(20:10):
like Netflix numbers, watch hours that doesn't really say anything
to me at all, but the content itself. I try
to get myself in a way where I have a
rotation of topics I go into regularly, and then when
I do those, that's usually what gives me a better
sense of like what people are going to listen to
on a regular basis. So I have to figure that
(20:31):
out in some good way, shape or form to go
and do that. To close out the story from the
podcasting end of Bloomberg. Here they said that podcasts continue
to rely their into ads to justify their big paydation networks.
The risk for podcasting is ending up in a world
where valuable long form audiences have been supplanted by short
form clip cruisers. And it feels like it can become
(20:52):
particularly troublesome if podcast networks or creators can effyically figure
out the house sell ads on social media or be
constrained because of their satorial policies. So she might not
this person might not have an answer to this, but
I do you need to take what radio does Radio
we're worried about time spent listening TSL. The thing is
(21:14):
time spent listening more than ever now because of the
personal people mutle system right now that Arbitron has they
count the fact that their rating system is based on
somebody who listens at least to a program or or
someboding on the radio station for three minutes at a time.
If they count three minutes. It used to be where
(21:35):
of those quarter out of ratings where you'd worry about, okay,
who's listening about in the fifteen minute span. And that's
the part where time spent listening. You had to have
somebody to listen to release a quarter of the hour
of programming to count that rating. That's what has happened here,
is that you have to be careful about making a
show that is interesting and compelling to keep people watching
(21:58):
from beginning, beginning to end, or at least catch the
show for a long time as long as you can
get until people have to go, and just go because
they can't go because the whole show. The most important
thing is I don't think it's right or good to
present a podcast or any kind of content from that
(22:19):
matter that you can't watch or listen to in one sitting. Audiobooks,
a different story, magazines, newspapers, different story. TV shows and movies.
You should be able to watch them in one sitting.
At least you you should be able to watch an
episode of a movie, or you should be able to
(22:41):
watch a full movie or an episode of a TV
show in one sitting, and you make sure that what
you're putting in that content is going to be good.
That's what you have to do now. The one thing
that's happening now for some people who are talking about
the clippers that are out there, that are making money
on this, and trust me, you go to your LinkedIn
you know, if you look at LinkedIn jobs or indeed
(23:02):
or whatever else. There are so many jobs for social
media content producers that are remote. If you get the
right kind of video, you know, content you make out there,
and you got the equipment, yeah you could go and
do a lot of stuff with it. You know how
to use cap cut, you know how to use Da
Vinci or whatever else out there. Yeah, go for it.
They talked to one person to here that has been
(23:23):
quit as finance job now runs a team of eight
clippers and earns between twenty thousand and thirty thousand a
month on short form video clips to go on sites
like Instagram and TikTok. So clipping took off during the
early days of TikTok when you see chopped up stimpets
of personalities like Andrew Tait or mister Beach wrecking up
(23:45):
millions of views. So anything we can be clipped. The
podcast debate, social media, montage, movies and startups are out
there that will build to go and do that for you.
So one particular one they have that they talk out
here is clearly an AI note taking startup hiring clippers
to plaster as promotional content across the Internet, and their
(24:07):
clip content generates between eight hundred thousand views a day
on platforms like Instagram and TikTok, and in the virtual markets,
brands post the rate they will pay freelancers will sign
up to make clips, and these clippers are able to
get paid anywhere between fifty cents to two thousand per
views or two dollars per thousand views. To motivate them
to find the most sharable moments, they talk to somebody
(24:30):
that runs a marketplace called clip through this court channel
where they launched a TikTok campaign clipping scenes from the
XX Show adults streaming on Hulu and then it drew
more than twelve million views on TikTok. Videos are recommended
to viewers based on how much people interact with them
through likes, comments, shares, and watch time. So what edited
(24:53):
clip can go viral even from an account with no followers,
and each one can be made in under a minute
using free online editing tools. It is all fascinating when
you look at it and you said to yourself, to
create the right content in the podcasting realm, specifically, you
have to keep and now on the fact that you
might hear the popularity of Joe Rogan or any of
(25:15):
the NPR content, or Theo vonn or all these others, right,
but they gotta also have the right guests, and not
every guest is gonna go ahead and get you the
right amount of you know, audience is gonna come out
for it unless you're just completely like caught on the
fact that oh who who or are they talking to
this time? But I'm not the kind of person that
(25:36):
can catch long form content like that, especially like an
hour two hours like that. I mean, remember, after COVID,
we don't have a lot of people that are doing
long commutes. You might have people that are taking plane
rides and I'll have the time all the time they
want to go and catch some content. That's a different
story too. But you don't want to make your podcast
or your video show become like an audiobook where you
(25:59):
have to keep going back to, going back to it,
going back to it, unless you make your show episodic
and you have like a long form interview or something
else that you have and then you just basically say, okay,
well we're going to go and keep this here and
we're going to create parts of it, and you find
it right way to go to do that. I mean,
even for me the Broadcasters podcast, when I first started
(26:20):
doing or Creative not Corporate, the interviews I used to
go and put up. I used to put them in
the show and I would just runt in two parts.
But you know you could do that. But the thing
is I would do it where it would have like
a break, which would be a good place to go
and stop the interview. But I don't do it anymore
because if I do interviews now, I'd just put them
out there stand alone because there's no rhymes of reason
(26:41):
as to what to do with the proNT content. I'll
tell you like this too. What I also do, especially
from a wrestling program, I do a thing now where
there are some weeks I do three team three episodes
in a week. I did that this week where between
Wednesday and then I did this episode on Friday, I
(27:02):
did another episode on Sunday. There was just extra news
going on and things that I wanted to go and
talk about in the program, and I'm saying to myself,
I'm not gonna wait another week to go and talk
about it, and I'm not gonna make my show go
like super long to try to crimin all in. With podcasts,
we can kind of do what we want with it.
(27:23):
So if we have an agenda, you have, like what
you have planned out to go and talk about in
your program, and you think, well, maybe we can get
all of it in the find a way to go
ahead and create another episode that adds the extra content
or put it aside towards premium content like some other
people do. I just think you can do something where
(27:45):
the long form of content should absolutely be full of
what people are want to listen to all the way across.
You should not have any filler at all, nothing like
everybody of a full course meal should be delicious, shouldn't
have a bite, and they're gonna do an advertiser. Make
sure the advertiser is good and leaves you wanting more
(28:07):
because you're still hungry, well the advertiser. It's like, Look,
your content in the long form should have a billion
different clips you could pull from. That should be the
easiest thing for you to do to create short form content.
Your long form content should have plenty of spots for
(28:29):
you to go ahead and pull and clip and clip
and clip. But you only need to do a couple
keep it sixty to ninety seconds, and that's it. Because
you want people to take that short form content and
attract them to take the bigger bite, to take the
(28:49):
bigger full course meal that is your long form podcast
where you're taking the listeners into account, their time, their interest.
They're a titch span, folks. We really appreciate you listening
to another Podcasters Grow and again, anybody you feel like
we should have on the program, reach out to me,
Email me king of Podcasts at yellow dot com, or
(29:11):
just go direct to the contact page at Kingdom Podcasts
dot com. We'll fink we'll talk to you next time.
And welcome back to the podcasting show. This is King
of the podcast here where you appreciate all of you
joining us fronting the program that you always do, whether
it be Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube music, YouTube itself, Amazon
Music and all other platforms. Thank you for every time
go and join us here and tweaking, testing, tuning, trying
to get the right content out. You know, it's one
(00:29):
thing to do short and long form content. We know
it's much more common now than ever that you know
in television news you always had to tease to a
story you wanted to make sure somebody would watch later on,
or a promo for a TV series, or a trailer
for a movie. We've always had short form content to
(00:50):
be the gateway, the appetizer to somebody taking on the
full course. Right And just like we go at a restaurant,
sometimes you don't want to well, of course, you just
want an appetiser to go with your drink, your beverage,
your tasty spirit that you have in hand. So if
you decide to do that, that's your choice. But you
(01:11):
can always make sure somebody will catch your content. If
there's one common thing that you would heard to is
that every minute of your content has to count. You
need to make sure that you are entertaining and forming
doing something with your content. You don't need to go
and fill a time slot, especially when you're a podcast,
just to fill a time slot. Obviously, on the TV
shows now that are streaming or movies that are out
(01:34):
there in theaters are streaming, there's a set time that
you have to put in. And for movies that want
to go and take time and edit down their program
to make sure they're putting just the right amount of
content on how often do you see a series that
(01:54):
will have an episode and the time of the episode
will be different than the next episode because because you're
finding a proper place in the story to stop the
story to begin the next chapter of the story. When
you're doing real time content or doing timely content, you know,
(02:14):
like I do. The thing is, besides the fact of
what content you're going to deliver, you have to make
sure that if you're gonna have somebody listen to your program,
you want to get the listeners to go to the
longer form content, to the full actual program. You want
them to want to binge watch your program, binge listen
(02:38):
to your program. That's what you want. And so there's
a story that comes out right off the bat, and
this is something that is This is they talk about
the risk of short form video. This is from a
Bloomberg newsletter story. So Kara Swisher, the co host of Pivot,
she was speaking with her guest co host Tim Miller
of The Bulwark about this podcast the Board, and she
(03:01):
admits that she doesn't regularly consume the show on a
podcast app. Quote, you know where I listened to it? Oh,
listen on social media. I listened to pieces and pieces.
And then the writer here says that they had a
similar realization about their own viewing habits or listening habits.
(03:22):
Scholling on TikTok, came across the clip from a podcast.
Didn't want to name the show, but the interviewing topics
something interested in, they were interested in, and they watched,
took down the headline where the item that the clip
was built around swiped away without hearing the entire episode
or even the rest of that segment. The clip's more
sol of information was enough for me. This story goes
(03:45):
on to say that as podcasters of RUSSI in the
video part of the promise that the powerful algorithms behind TikTok,
Instagram and even the YouTube shorts can improve discovery and
wrote in new audience members. But many podcasters are even
paying armies of video savvy marketers notice clippers, the saturate
social media with enticing exibits of their shows engineer into irresistible,
(04:06):
buzzy tidbits designed to grab your attention. And I'm gonna
take from a story from The Wall Sat Journal that
goes into that that recently published on that. As they
referred to the question is how effective was the ubiquitous
short form videos at driving an audience to a full
length podcast? They talked to the co founder at Bumper,
(04:28):
a podcast audience development company, quote, It's nowhere near as
impactful as people want. Quote. The disappointment that I have
see for creators often stems from lack of clarity around
what clips are in service of. If hosts expect the
clips to pick up vast numbers of new audience members
for their full length show, that likely won't happen. Think
about the amount of friction exists between seeing a clip
(04:49):
and then consuming it elsewhere, especially when you were scrolling
rather than listening to a podcast or in the mood
to listen to. They go on to say that I
used to think a clip on Socialist Marketing Global for
a full episode a trailer for the movie isn't a movie.
Increasingly my mind is changing about that there's a tremendous
amount of attention that comes in little slices. Now. I
(05:14):
spoke to someone for the bull working about their clips,
saying that short form video content has become a similicated
driver of our growth, and it helps drive the conversation
and get people in front of our new audiences across
all platforms, a significant driver of subscription growth. A spokesperson
who didn't say whether who watches the clips definitely convert
(05:35):
to full time listeners, but they said they racked up
one hundred and thirty two and a half million views
on x over the past three months, and I'll YouTube
shorts thirty eight point seven million, and I'll TikTok ten
point three million views. This Bloomberg article goes on to
talk about that the audiences with both formats appear to
be diverging. Depending on how the industry shakes out, that
(05:55):
could end up being a totally fine thing for the business,
and from Bumper goes on to say that affective podcasters
often don't mind that their clips fail to convert because
they make money off their social media accounts by something
ad packages that span both products. But the downside of
heavy clipping is that also disrupts the primary source of
the podcasts revenue, the full length episodes of shows and
(06:17):
the substantial adventories they delivered the listeners. The current dynamic
of podcasting in some ways is reminiscent of what we've
seen in late night TV. No shortage of funny, provocative
clips highlighting juicy on air moments. But despite the cost
a matter of how entertaining these shows can be, when
was the last time you sat down and watching an
entire episode as it aired? Aggressionally publishing highlight clips has
(06:40):
been doubtedly a great way to keep the performers alive
in the cultures like Geist, but over time it's also
efvictively taught us that all you don't have to no
longer actively see out the shows to get their best moments,
because the same thing we happen in the podcasting Okay huh.
In my opinion, these short form content should not be
(07:03):
of your best content. What you should do and this
is what I do myself. In my content. I usually
try to find something that is going to be something
that I will say on a monologue or take a
particular clip and plan for it to be in social media.
(07:23):
I'm not gonna just pick some random clip that will
just satisfy a short form. I actually kind of plan
on it. So when I do these kind of episodes,
there will be a spot where I'll know, Okay, I'm
gonna say this here because I'm gonna make my point,
I'm gonna give my take. It'll be within the timeframe
(07:45):
that I need. Ninety seconds is about as much as
I need to go because I'm trying to adhere to
all the different platforms. Of course, you can go longer,
but I think two minutes is too long. It's about
us more than you need. Two minutes is stretching it.
Sixty to ninety seconds, thirty seconds if you can get it,
and you can get the full throated take that you
(08:07):
want to make sure, but sixty to ninety seconds. And
also I don't take the full clips sometimes as it's recorded,
sometimes I will spice together because it's audio. And more importantly,
I don't care to do video because the talking head
(08:28):
doesn't make a difference to anybody else anyway, unless I
had a companying b roll video to go with it.
But if you see any of my clips out there,
you know I'm not that big of an audience anyway.
Sometimes I might get a good audience on something that
I might say that will grab attention. If I get
the right caption out there, it works. But whatever content
(08:50):
I do, it's just my own. I want to make
sure that if somebody's gonna go and look at the clip,
the most important thing we're gonna do is I'm gonna
make sure I'm promoting my platform. So one website one
you are all Kingopodcasts dot com, YouTube at King of Podcasts,
so they can find the video version of the show.
That's it, And even the video vision is slate because
(09:12):
I'm not doing any more than just creating a visual
slate with captions. That's all I'm gonna go and do
to create something that's gonna be a visual medium that
will be good enough for somebody to watch. Wish are
not gonna watch. They're just gonna put on YouTube and
listen to it. And sometimes it happens to work really well.
But I mean, I make it pretty easy to go
(09:34):
ahead and clip on my shows, I basically will do
two clips per episode about as much as I need.
Sometimes if it's less than thirty minutes, I'll do one clip,
But I don't need to do anything more than that
because if I do that there, i'll have the clips
I want to do. There's a whole lot of content
I'm gonna be covering. But it doesn't also matter where
(09:58):
I pull from the episode either, because I also want
to make it where it's not something always from the beginning.
I wanted to be similar to the middle to the end.
But I'll plan on what I'm going to basically say.
If I catch myself at a point where I, okay,
I said this, and I kind of make a known
of it mentally, I'm going to come back and pull
that clip and put it into a format that can
(10:20):
put it out there for social media. Because the other
thing is is that that short from content, you know,
you might get a lot of attention to it, the
most possible attention you probably get to a clip or
to your content. But it's also the fact is that
I want to make sure I have captions in there
so people can just go and catch the words at
(10:42):
least I'll catch that, because if they're watching on their
phone or table or whatever they're going to be listening
on or watching on, they might not have their full
attention to it, and they might be allowed place. So
you want to make sure that they have multiple ways
to consume what you're saying, or they can read what
you're saying. That's more important to me than anything else
in a short form clip. But for me to say,
(11:06):
you know, it's tough on the content that you make.
Now when you're doing interviews, some people have learned to
go Joe Rogan style and just pick a long interview
to go with and just pick something that's going to
work out of that particular interview that you want to take.
But some people will probably get the impression that they're
(11:27):
getting the best clip possible. So why even go ahead
and go back to the show Because for some of
these shows, yeah, I mean a show like The Bullwark
without any political animus or anything like that at all.
I'm just saying objectively, the Bullwork is going to talk
about whatever news events that are going on or whatever
(11:49):
political stories that everybody else is talking about. Remember that
a political show that is talking about the same thing
that plenty of other political podcasts they're talking about right now.
So when you got that, the difference is what is
your voice saying about it? Once you report the story,
what is your opinion your editorial? And that's what you
(12:12):
have to figure out, and that might just be the
only thing worth listening to on that particular episode. So
what Kara Switcher says that, I mean, she's saying the
fact that Tim Miller and Kara Swisher probably have the
same kind of political mindset. They both have parallel views
on what they think about politically. So it's not a
(12:33):
matter of going back to the episode to hear the
whole thing, especially if they're both busy you don't have time.
But the clip satisfies because Karriswitcher got to hear Tim
Miller make his point, and that's it. And there's plenty
of times where somebody will it's not even the fact
that if it's somebody from the show that clips the episode.
(12:55):
The one thing that happens more than anything on X
is there are people that are media watchdogs out there,
whether they are official organizations that are media watchdogs or
just people out there that just clip up content that's
not theirs, but they're using the right to go and
put that content up there so people can catch it.
(13:15):
So I need to go listen to a whole episode.
I can't say how many times, so many already putting
out a clip from the Breakfast Club or from you
know whatever cable channel or you know, any streamer like
an I Show Speed or Drew Ski. You see it.
I'm not gonna go back and go find this long
form video. I mean, I could go find an I
Show Speed channel or Drew Ski channel or you know,
(13:37):
Neon or whatever else. I could go look for all
these different streamers and all or live streaming of whatever
there is. I could go look for it. But it's
also the convenience of where you're gonna find that content.
I mean, the one thing I think that most of
these clips don't have, especially as these are people that
are doing their own program. You're gonna assume that they
(14:00):
know where to find your show. And it doesn't mean
you put a little end cap on the episode or
that protuto short form clip and say, okay, catch it here, No,
you want that burned in to the whole clip. I
don't think people realize that. For me, that was the
(14:20):
most important thing I started doing two years ago when
I started doing clips, because I know the first thing
I had to do off the bat was I got
to promote the website first and foremost. Once I did that,
and then I started promoting the YouTube feed. Once I
started to promoting the YouTube feed on every audio clip
or any audiogram that I do, they got me subscribers.
(14:45):
It was the best way to get subscribers because somewhere,
somehow they've caught that video, that audiogram, and then they
catch it and think, all right, here we go, and
then I go ahead and push it over to social
media that my channels get some traction, some traffic. So
I'm not worried about monetizing these particular profits because I'm
(15:06):
a YouTube feed. I don't have it monetized yet. The
bars all too high for me to get there. I
got the subscriber count, I don't have the watch hours,
So for me, I have to work on getting my
content to be to where they're talking about here. You
get the real money on the YouTube feed if you
put on content that is long form and you get
(15:31):
a TSL a time spent listening measurement that goes well
enough to bring your watch hours to a certain minimum
and then you go ahead and be able to monetize it,
which is where I'm at right now. So that's more
my more my important things. Now when it comes to
the shore from content, I also have to keep in
(15:53):
mind that on social media, I'm not expecting to go
ahead and pull people out of nowhere to go and
catch my for you page, whether it's X or TikTok
or LinkedIn or whatever, and they're going to catch the feed.
Like Spotify, they're good about their algorithm to say, Okay,
the algorithm is going to help you with that short
form content to help you find an audience. That's fine,
(16:15):
but I don't think it's always the biggest driver of
that either, because I know for myself, there's not a
lot of stuff I put out there myself that goes
viral on TikTok or LinkedIn or X. What I get
the most viral is, you know, some of the YouTube
(16:36):
shorts gets it. But what I've gotten viral are YouTube videos,
which is on my longer form content. And some of
my content I did out there was like the ten
sixty minute Variety when I was doing one I'm not podcasting,
and some of those videos actually did pretty good. But
now on some of the other programming, it's half our
(16:58):
six sixty minute show, and I'm getting some shows where
I'll get somebody to good listening. Listeners will be good
and stick around for like ten to fifteen minutes. The
biggest thing is to be able to measure what the
time spent listening is on your podcast. It's very important
to go and follow that. It's one of the metrics
(17:19):
that I miss When Stitcher used to be around. Stitcher
used to give us that stat of the length of
how long somebody would listen to a podcast. I believe
Apple did that as well, but I don't think they
have that anymore. And I missed that part because that
was something that was really really good and if I
(17:41):
had that still, I was still good and find my
way to go and get around. But we don't have
that anymore. So it's unfortunate we don't have that, and
Spotify doesn't give me that either. I wish it did.
So for instance, I'm looking right now on my Apple
podcast connect section for stats. Let's just that's okay, broadcasters podcast.
(18:01):
Here's a good example. All right, I'm up followers three percent.
My listener count is up forty eight percent. That's good.
My plays are up forty eight percent. They give me
the time listening and it's twelve hours listen. It's not
that much, really, it's not. And that I have of
(18:22):
my listeners that a certain amount are following and a
certain amount are not falling, and are I going to
the episodes themselves. It'll show me the average consumption and
they only give me percentages, So like certain episodes, I'll
get sixty five percent, thirty two percent, and some of
(18:43):
the others I don't get much of anything else, So
I get to see that part, which doesn't give me
much to work off of. If I go to my
series to pray them. Debauchress numbers are up on their
twenty one percent, up on followers, twelve percent up on listeners,
twenty one percent up on place great time listened. It's
(19:04):
a little bit better. And I get a lot more
people that are not following my program that are listening longer,
which is interesting. And if I look at some of
the episodes that I do now, some of them do
better where I get eighty percent of average consumption of
an episode, which is nice. Nine percent sixty percent, that's great,
But for me. What I'm learning about is that I
(19:28):
need to find a way to find the right content.
And it's also the part where like when you're trying
to create content, it's difficult to go in not get
put into a hole of doing the same stuff over
and over, because that's the other part that people can
try to do themselves as well, is micro broadcast what
(19:49):
they're doing so on the same one topic, which gets
run to the ground because people really got into it
and that's what the metrics say. To God and follow
along and then you try to do what you can do.
I do it though so much that's just not something
that's sustainable. The problem is that these analytics I get
when I look at also my Spotify feed is it's
(20:10):
like Netflix numbers, watch hours that doesn't really say anything
to me at all, but the content itself. I try
to get myself in a way where I have a
rotation of topics I go into regularly, and then when
I do those, that's usually what gives me a better
sense of like what people are going to listen to
on a regular basis. So I have to figure that
(20:31):
out in some good way, shape or form to go
and do that. To close out the story from the
podcasting end of Bloomberg. Here they said that podcasts continue
to rely their into ads to justify their big paydation networks.
The risk for podcasting is ending up in a world
where valuable long form audiences have been supplanted by short
form clip cruisers. And it feels like it can become
(20:52):
particularly troublesome if podcast networks or creators can effyically figure
out the house sell ads on social media or be
constrained because of their satorial policies. So she might not
this person might not have an answer to this, but
I do you need to take what radio does Radio
we're worried about time spent listening TSL. The thing is
(21:14):
time spent listening more than ever now because of the
personal people mutle system right now that Arbitron has they
count the fact that their rating system is based on
somebody who listens at least to a program or or
someboding on the radio station for three minutes at a time.
If they count three minutes. It used to be where
(21:35):
of those quarter out of ratings where you'd worry about, okay,
who's listening about in the fifteen minute span. And that's
the part where time spent listening. You had to have
somebody to listen to release a quarter of the hour
of programming to count that rating. That's what has happened here,
is that you have to be careful about making a
show that is interesting and compelling to keep people watching
(21:58):
from beginning, beginning to end, or at least catch the
show for a long time as long as you can
get until people have to go, and just go because
they can't go because the whole show. The most important
thing is I don't think it's right or good to
present a podcast or any kind of content from that
(22:19):
matter that you can't watch or listen to in one sitting. Audiobooks,
a different story, magazines, newspapers, different story. TV shows and movies.
You should be able to watch them in one sitting.
At least you you should be able to watch an
episode of a movie, or you should be able to
(22:41):
watch a full movie or an episode of a TV
show in one sitting, and you make sure that what
you're putting in that content is going to be good.
That's what you have to do now. The one thing
that's happening now for some people who are talking about
the clippers that are out there, that are making money
on this, and trust me, you go to your LinkedIn
you know, if you look at LinkedIn jobs or indeed
(23:02):
or whatever else. There are so many jobs for social
media content producers that are remote. If you get the
right kind of video, you know, content you make out there,
and you got the equipment, yeah you could go and
do a lot of stuff with it. You know how
to use cap cut, you know how to use Da
Vinci or whatever else out there. Yeah, go for it.
They talked to one person to here that has been
(23:23):
quit as finance job now runs a team of eight
clippers and earns between twenty thousand and thirty thousand a
month on short form video clips to go on sites
like Instagram and TikTok. So clipping took off during the
early days of TikTok when you see chopped up stimpets
of personalities like Andrew Tait or mister Beach wrecking up
(23:45):
millions of views. So anything we can be clipped. The
podcast debate, social media, montage, movies and startups are out
there that will build to go and do that for you.
So one particular one they have that they talk out
here is clearly an AI note taking startup hiring clippers
to plaster as promotional content across the Internet, and their
(24:07):
clip content generates between eight hundred thousand views a day
on platforms like Instagram and TikTok, and in the virtual markets,
brands post the rate they will pay freelancers will sign
up to make clips, and these clippers are able to
get paid anywhere between fifty cents to two thousand per
views or two dollars per thousand views. To motivate them
to find the most sharable moments, they talk to somebody
(24:30):
that runs a marketplace called clip through this court channel
where they launched a TikTok campaign clipping scenes from the
XX Show adults streaming on Hulu and then it drew
more than twelve million views on TikTok. Videos are recommended
to viewers based on how much people interact with them
through likes, comments, shares, and watch time. So what edited
(24:53):
clip can go viral even from an account with no followers,
and each one can be made in under a minute
using free online editing tools. It is all fascinating when
you look at it and you said to yourself, to
create the right content in the podcasting realm, specifically, you
have to keep and now on the fact that you
might hear the popularity of Joe Rogan or any of
(25:15):
the NPR content, or Theo vonn or all these others, right,
but they gotta also have the right guests, and not
every guest is gonna go ahead and get you the
right amount of you know, audience is gonna come out
for it unless you're just completely like caught on the
fact that oh who who or are they talking to
this time? But I'm not the kind of person that
(25:36):
can catch long form content like that, especially like an
hour two hours like that. I mean, remember, after COVID,
we don't have a lot of people that are doing
long commutes. You might have people that are taking plane
rides and I'll have the time all the time they
want to go and catch some content. That's a different
story too. But you don't want to make your podcast
or your video show become like an audiobook where you
(25:59):
have to keep going back to, going back to it,
going back to it, unless you make your show episodic
and you have like a long form interview or something
else that you have and then you just basically say, okay,
well we're going to go and keep this here and
we're going to create parts of it, and you find
it right way to go to do that. I mean,
even for me the Broadcasters podcast, when I first started
(26:20):
doing or Creative not Corporate, the interviews I used to
go and put up. I used to put them in
the show and I would just runt in two parts.
But you know you could do that. But the thing
is I would do it where it would have like
a break, which would be a good place to go
and stop the interview. But I don't do it anymore
because if I do interviews now, I'd just put them
out there stand alone because there's no rhymes of reason
(26:41):
as to what to do with the proNT content. I'll
tell you like this too. What I also do, especially
from a wrestling program, I do a thing now where
there are some weeks I do three team three episodes
in a week. I did that this week where between
Wednesday and then I did this episode on Friday, I
(27:02):
did another episode on Sunday. There was just extra news
going on and things that I wanted to go and
talk about in the program, and I'm saying to myself,
I'm not gonna wait another week to go and talk
about it, and I'm not gonna make my show go
like super long to try to crimin all in. With podcasts,
we can kind of do what we want with it.
(27:23):
So if we have an agenda, you have, like what
you have planned out to go and talk about in
your program, and you think, well, maybe we can get
all of it in the find a way to go
ahead and create another episode that adds the extra content
or put it aside towards premium content like some other
people do. I just think you can do something where
(27:45):
the long form of content should absolutely be full of
what people are want to listen to all the way across.
You should not have any filler at all, nothing like
everybody of a full course meal should be delicious, shouldn't
have a bite, and they're gonna do an advertiser. Make
sure the advertiser is good and leaves you wanting more
(28:07):
because you're still hungry, well the advertiser. It's like, Look,
your content in the long form should have a billion
different clips you could pull from. That should be the
easiest thing for you to do to create short form content.
Your long form content should have plenty of spots for
(28:29):
you to go ahead and pull and clip and clip
and clip. But you only need to do a couple
keep it sixty to ninety seconds, and that's it. Because
you want people to take that short form content and
attract them to take the bigger bite, to take the
(28:49):
bigger full course meal that is your long form podcast
where you're taking the listeners into account, their time, their interest.
They're a titch span, folks. We really appreciate you listening
to another Podcasters Grow and again, anybody you feel like
we should have on the program, reach out to me,
Email me king of Podcasts at yellow dot com, or
(29:11):
just go direct to the contact page at Kingdom Podcasts
dot com. We'll fink we'll talk to you next time.
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