November 5, 2025 • 21 mins
Points of Light Radio investigates some concerning developments in the conferring of fraternal degrees.
Members of various fraternal bodies discuss the changes. The benefits and disadvantages of changing traditional degree conferral are examined.
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Members of various fraternal bodies discuss the changes. The benefits and disadvantages of changing traditional degree conferral are examined.
😊If you like this video and would like to help make more like it please make a donation to show your support https://paypal.me/pointsoflightradio?country.x=CA&locale.x=en_US
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Greeting's Brothers, Sister shaol Maslamaik. I'm on the stana, Welcome
back to Points of Light Radio. I'm just getting ready
to go to the lodge here. So but I in
today's segment, I will be discussing some developments that I've
(00:23):
been noticing lately with degrees. Right. First of all, I'm
going to show you a quick clip here of something
you saw here. I guess it would be on the
October first, twenty twenty five segment of Points of Light Radio.
(00:45):
I want you to have a look at that, and
then we'll move forward. We've talked about one thing I
did want to talk to you about. I did touch
on this when we were kind of getting acquainted, and
it ties in, of course, the brothers turning their backs
on the lodge. Is the one day degree rallies with Freemasonry.
Now I understand this is spread because read the even
(01:06):
Royal Arts Freemasonry is now having what's called degree festivals.
So this is spread. But I've also heard the statistic that,
statistically speaking, the people that command during your one day
degree rallies or whatever you call them, one day were
(01:27):
the race from from entered apprentice to master mason. The
keeper rate among them is the same as the brothers
who come in in a traditional way. So what's your
what's your.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, I've seen numbers. I yeah, I've seen numbers. I
have a good brother, John Rourke, who is a member
of the Masonic Ground Table podcast, and he took the
task to actually try to gather data about this, and
he was able to speak with a few Grand lodges,
(02:02):
speak with a few jurisdictions to see how it would
show up in a graph. And just like you say,
it was, it didn't move the needle. It was impressive
when it happened. Right, So you can have a rally
and you we're gonna initiate these many people and we're
(02:23):
gonna do all of this, and now our numbers have
this artificial bump of membership. But there's think about the
progression from entered apprentice to fellow craft to master mason.
It should be a journey of apprenticeship literally of being
a companion and then eventually becoming a master. That doesn't
(02:46):
happen overnight, and there is an ambition for the person
that becomes initiated. Now they have some labor to do
in the quarries before they are technically qualified to become
a fellow raft is there an incentive, Like you're already
a master Mason, now you can travel, you can join
the shrine, you can join other organizations. So is there
(03:09):
really an incentive for that person to stay in the lodge.
You know, it's the way I see it.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Sometimes you might not have a choice if your number,
if your lodge is ready to close due to lack
of membership, you might have the choice. On the other hand,
you can you can cheapen it by bringing in four
hundred in a day, like I've heard that before. But
also if you don't follow those rallies up with further
(03:35):
education mentorship, which is something I've covered on a previous
segment of Points of Light Radio. I think you'll agree.
You can't just do have those rallies and then follow
up with these new members.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
You need to follow that up. And I think that's
one of the problems that we're just bringing them in
saying Okay, we've got a bunch of new Master of
Asons sitting here. Let's get back to the thing the
way things were before.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
You can't do that, yeah, and think of this, like,
what do you want them for? Do you want them
to come to the meeting that we already told you
was boring. Right, you're gonna stuff it full of people
all gonna be Okay, this is not what I signed
up for. And also I think of what are we
really doing if we really think about what's the whole
(04:20):
purpose of becoming a freemason, and it's to take the
rough form that of the stone that you are and
progressively work at it to bring it to a more
perfect state. You can't accelerate that process. It's not sustainable
(04:40):
for you to or it's not realistic for you to
expect that an individual joins the fraternity and now he
is the best man you ever met. That what made
him the best man you ever met? It's only the
hard work of him recognizing what his flaws are, having
the support of the the other brothers helping him become
(05:02):
a better husband, a better business person, a better employee,
whatever it is that they're looking to improve upon. Unless
they're diligent at chipping at that stone, they're not going
to fit when they're brought over.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
To the to the temple sort of speak.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So if we if we look at masonry in the
way that Okay, this is something for which I'm going
to invest time so that I can become the best
version of myself. There's no rush. Let's let's work at it. Okay,
what did I learn.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
In this step?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
How can I apply that to my family, to my business?
All right? And then once you feel comfortable that you
are dexterous enough with those tools that you provided, now
you can start casting your gaze further along. But until then,
it's it's it's not it's I don't think it's a
sustainable effort to to see that as a as a
(06:01):
as an adequate tool for increasing membership.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Okay, Now, then I heard this when I was interviewing
another guest on Points of Light radio, And now, what
which one of those degrees do you have to have
(06:27):
in order to be a grand master of your lodge?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
You have to be a third degree. But that's actually
they change the degree structure within the last couple of
years where you get all three of your charity unit
fraternity degrees at one time.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Okay, Well, it's.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Not been received well by many members, but that's just
something that the Ivory Tower decided to do, So that's
what they did. Membership growth of the Nets Columbus has
been kind of stagnant as late, as we see in
most other fraternities.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Okay, so in order to.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Get people in, you get them in and then they
actually introduce a degree video as well into doing the
live degree as well. So you should show them a
twenty seven minute video. It's unavailable on YouTube if you
want to watch it as well, and it explains the
basics of the old one two three charity unity and
fraternity degrees kind of hits the highlights of it. The
only thing we used to keep secret was our degree work,
(07:23):
but now we've since the change. You can bring your wife,
your son, your daughter, or anyone you want to come
witness the degree work.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So that's our topic today of discussion here on Points
of Light Radio. Okay, these developments that you're seeing with degrees.
I'm going to bring some other guests on who are
very familiar with fraternalism, so let's see how we feel
(07:53):
about this that when we're finished interviewing everybody. Okay, I
don't know about you, but I'm kind of nervous about
what I'm seeing. I have some thoughts on that. Let
(08:30):
me give you a look at a discussion me and
mister McCool had from the Coolest Life podcast. Let me
let me show you a clip of the discussion we
had on degrees their meaning and importance. Yeah, and it
(08:50):
is funny because we're talking about that. At one of
our last meetings, we were talking about our one of
the organizations I belong to, our Purple Art degree, and
we're sitting around talking of about that, some of us
guys who'd been through it, and we're kind of because
there's a couple of guys that are supposed to be
going through it soon and we're not really telling the
whole thing about it, but we're talking inside stuff and
(09:10):
they're kind of sure. But we have that common bond
that those those degrees. And I think that's uh. I
think that is one of the things about the degrees.
Although they've changed meaning in some ways down through the years,
they still have that core value to them that you
(09:32):
learn so much from that degree. Wouldn't you agree, like
you you've learned so much. A good degree I always
talk about, and if you've watched my podcast, you'll see
that way I talk about, a good degree gives you
a lesson not just for the lodge, but for your life.
You're absolutely and I think you'll agree with me. You
get a message when you go through it yourself. And
(09:53):
then if you're like me, sometimes you've had the opportunity
to deserve others going through it and you pick something
up else up from you, and then you bring through
the degree. Uh, whoa, there's Morley. You wouldn't think like, wow,
I learned so much from that.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
And then there's the next step, which would be you're
the one putting the degree on. So here you are
trying to memorize those those moral yess that you're giving
this new guy, and you really get some true belief
and and I don't know what I'm looking for the
word you know it really it really hits that message
(10:30):
home when you start to memorize it and you're actually
performing that degree. I mean, it's the next step to me.
I mean definitely definitely going through it normally it's like
you know, drinking from a from the Yeah, but there's
just so much especially initially going through any of those
organizations within masonry. But then once you see it, as
as you mentioned, once you see it, it's like oh okay,
(10:52):
I didn't I didn't catch that last time. But then
once you start performing it, oh my gosh, it just
it just blows up in your mind goes wow. And
then of course the next step after that would be
your philosophers who are writing books about masonry and they're
talked about, Yeah, this true meaning here goes this direction.
If you want to take that fourth step, that's fine.
But I really like that third step.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, it is incredible, and like I said, you don't
just get it ends there. There's so much messaging from
it that'll come to you afterwards. And it's a beautiful thing.
But who better to offer his opinion on any fraternal
matter here in Points of Light Radio is Owen Snowton.
We all know him from numerous appearances here. Let's hear
what he has to say. Now, I understand you know
(11:39):
that times have changed, you know the meaning of our
degrees have changed in things, But like, how do you
feel about that? Do you feel that because I personally
feel that the degrees are for you. That's why we
bring you in, that's why we you know, like it.
(12:02):
So they're for you. They're not for your friends and
your family, They're for you. And that's that's basically where
I go with that. And do you feel that we
should maybe maintain the secrecy of these things that it
either has meaning or it doesn't.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
To me, that's I feel like secrecy within like the
rituals and ceremonies should stay secret because it always like
Freemasons thrived on that. People always curious of what that's
the great holes and what freemason is all about, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
But I think you'll agree with me, Like one of
the reasons for that secrecy is the degree is for you.
It's not for anybody else. It's part of that message
that we're trying to give you, and it helps us
focus that message on you. There's other people present, we
can't really do justice to that.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
You agree, Yeah, I agree with that. You must keep
it like private.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
That's such an.
Speaker 7 (13:02):
Import that's like bringing you know, sometimes when when when
when when you're dealing even with your kids or a
co worker and you want to take them aside and
have a conversation with the conversation.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Is for them, it's not for everyone else. I just
I never understood that. I think you'll agree.
Speaker 7 (13:23):
We we do mean to mean, we do need to
maintain the secrecy of that totally.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Now, this next guest is part of an organization that
is doing is evolving their degrees and rituals in the
what I feel is the right direction. And that's Jeffrey Brauner. Okay,
he's the tag of the Fraternal Order of moy Or,
(13:54):
also known as the President. But yeah, let's see what
they're doing, because they're obviously moving in the right direction.
Now you mentioned the ritual, is I can remember it? Now?
Is there a degree system to the Fraternal Order of
may Or are they?
Speaker 8 (14:11):
If there is so? And we actually added a new
degree this year as part of our twentieth anniversary celebration,
so that was one of the things we did as
part of that. Essentially, there's four degrees right now. The
first degree is the initiate, so that's someone who's joined
and is in the process of becoming a full member.
We consider that a degree. That's a degree that you
can fail and lose because if if you fail to
(14:32):
complete the process, that degree goes away and you start over.
And then Fellow Mai, any member of the Order in
good standing has the second degree, and then we have
two degrees above that, so and those degrees are the ones.
You know, if you've seen photos of our activities, you'll
see that we have blue fez's that we wear, and
there's a degree that wears the blue fez, and then
(14:52):
there's a new degree that we're in the different blue
fez that was created this year.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And how long would it take to reach you each of.
Speaker 8 (14:58):
These The membership process to join the perspective, member has
the ability to sort of go through a process with
some deadlines where they can speed it up or slow
it down based on how well they want to hit
those deadlines so they can move faster if they want to.
But that takes about five months at maximum, So you know,
(15:20):
it's a it's a process that's there to sort of
let people decide if this is what they want to
do and let us see that they're committed. It takes
a little while to reach the third degree hanui and
where the fees, and that's a process where we want
to make sure someone would be a good representative of
the organization because those are the most visible people at
a public event. They're wearing met as people know they're
(15:40):
a member, and so you want to be sure that
that is the right choice and that they're ready for that,
and so that is quite variable, that can take quite
a while. And then the fourth degree you actually have
to be a hanw MOI in good standing for ten
years to even be eligible for it. So we created
that degree this year and most of the people that
(16:02):
were rewarded that have been members for quite a while.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Is there a little ceremony for each one?
Speaker 8 (16:07):
There are good?
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, that's actually And how long do you think would
you say the ceremonies are anywhere like an hour?
Speaker 8 (16:15):
It varies, you know, most of those rituals, the first
few are fairly short. I'd say ten to fifteen minutes,
maybe twenty at most. The newest one is a little
more ornate, and so that one's probably closer to thirty
eight or forty minutes.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And how do you find them? Like, do you find that?
Because I've always said my favorite saying is good degrees
don't give you a lesson just for the order, It
gives you a lesson for life. Do you find they
do that?
Speaker 5 (16:44):
You know?
Speaker 8 (16:44):
I think they do. I think you know. The third
degree is designed to be a little bit of a
degree where you don't necessarily know how to get there, right,
It's a little bit of an exercise in patience, and
whereas the fourth degree has very specific criteria and their
criteria that tie directly into our values. And so to
an extent, it's a process of saying, you've been a member,
(17:07):
you're a member of good standing at a higher level,
you've been doing that for ten years? Are you living
our values? How well are you doing those things? And
you know, and it's an opportunity for people to reflect
and think a little bit about, Hey, there's some things
I should be doing before pursuing this degree.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So we've had an interesting discussion here brothers and sisters
right now when it comes to degrees. You've heard me
say this in other various other segments of Points of
(17:47):
Light Radio that I personally I'm not a four. I'm
not opposed entirely opposed to evolving our degrees prime example,
degree rallies, okay, and virtual degrees when the need presents itself,
sometimes yes, you do have to do that. Right However,
(18:10):
having said that, we need to keep the degrees and
the rituals secret, right, you know they have meaning or
they don't. And as you heard me say during this segment,
the message you get in a degree ceremony is meant
(18:33):
for you, right, it's your brothers or or it's and
sometimes brothers and sisters within that lodge that are trying
to impart a message to you. They're focusing on you, right,
and we cannot properly focus that message when you've got
(18:58):
friends and relatives in the room observing. I seriously believe that, right.
And as you've heard me talk to mister McCool about
how the secrecy of degrees leads to a common bond,
you're not going to feel that bond, right if everyone
(19:22):
else knows about what the message you just got, right,
And if you are in a position of leadership within
any of these fraternal organizations, these more esoteric ones, you
should do something to kind of influence away from changing
our degrees in such a way that you cheapen their
value and eliminate the secrecy of it. Right. However, it
(19:48):
was great to hear mister Browner talk about how they
have developed the degrees and involved their degrees within the
Fraternal Order of MOAI. Right. And obviously it's working because
becus they're adding new chapters, right, they've added one up
here in Canada in fact, right now, times change, right,
(20:08):
But as you've heard, the core message is for the
reciproc the recipient, right, right, And if we're going to
evolve our degrees. Let's evolve them in such a way
that they preserve their value, their messaging and their meeting.
And that's all we have for you today, brow this
(20:29):
is the Sisters. Before I go, I want to remind
you that this podcast is available on both YouTube and spreaker.
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Light Radio on YouTube. I also welcome your comments and input.
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(20:51):
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(21:13):
and sisters. I appreciate your viewership and remember the message
that you heard here today about keeping maintaining the value
of our degrees and until we meet again, just step
(21:36):
into the light.
Greeting's Brothers, Sister shaol Maslamaik. I'm on the stana, Welcome
back to Points of Light Radio. I'm just getting ready
to go to the lodge here. So but I in
today's segment, I will be discussing some developments that I've
(00:23):
been noticing lately with degrees. Right. First of all, I'm
going to show you a quick clip here of something
you saw here. I guess it would be on the
October first, twenty twenty five segment of Points of Light Radio.
(00:45):
I want you to have a look at that, and
then we'll move forward. We've talked about one thing I
did want to talk to you about. I did touch
on this when we were kind of getting acquainted, and
it ties in, of course, the brothers turning their backs
on the lodge. Is the one day degree rallies with Freemasonry.
Now I understand this is spread because read the even
(01:06):
Royal Arts Freemasonry is now having what's called degree festivals.
So this is spread. But I've also heard the statistic that,
statistically speaking, the people that command during your one day
degree rallies or whatever you call them, one day were
(01:27):
the race from from entered apprentice to master mason. The
keeper rate among them is the same as the brothers
who come in in a traditional way. So what's your
what's your.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, I've seen numbers. I yeah, I've seen numbers. I
have a good brother, John Rourke, who is a member
of the Masonic Ground Table podcast, and he took the
task to actually try to gather data about this, and
he was able to speak with a few Grand lodges,
(02:02):
speak with a few jurisdictions to see how it would
show up in a graph. And just like you say,
it was, it didn't move the needle. It was impressive
when it happened. Right, So you can have a rally
and you we're gonna initiate these many people and we're
(02:23):
gonna do all of this, and now our numbers have
this artificial bump of membership. But there's think about the
progression from entered apprentice to fellow craft to master mason.
It should be a journey of apprenticeship literally of being
a companion and then eventually becoming a master. That doesn't
(02:46):
happen overnight, and there is an ambition for the person
that becomes initiated. Now they have some labor to do
in the quarries before they are technically qualified to become
a fellow raft is there an incentive, Like you're already
a master Mason, now you can travel, you can join
the shrine, you can join other organizations. So is there
(03:09):
really an incentive for that person to stay in the lodge.
You know, it's the way I see it.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Sometimes you might not have a choice if your number,
if your lodge is ready to close due to lack
of membership, you might have the choice. On the other hand,
you can you can cheapen it by bringing in four
hundred in a day, like I've heard that before. But
also if you don't follow those rallies up with further
(03:35):
education mentorship, which is something I've covered on a previous
segment of Points of Light Radio. I think you'll agree.
You can't just do have those rallies and then follow
up with these new members.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
You need to follow that up. And I think that's
one of the problems that we're just bringing them in
saying Okay, we've got a bunch of new Master of
Asons sitting here. Let's get back to the thing the
way things were before.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
You can't do that, yeah, and think of this, like,
what do you want them for? Do you want them
to come to the meeting that we already told you
was boring. Right, you're gonna stuff it full of people
all gonna be Okay, this is not what I signed
up for. And also I think of what are we
really doing if we really think about what's the whole
(04:20):
purpose of becoming a freemason, and it's to take the
rough form that of the stone that you are and
progressively work at it to bring it to a more
perfect state. You can't accelerate that process. It's not sustainable
(04:40):
for you to or it's not realistic for you to
expect that an individual joins the fraternity and now he
is the best man you ever met. That what made
him the best man you ever met? It's only the
hard work of him recognizing what his flaws are, having
the support of the the other brothers helping him become
(05:02):
a better husband, a better business person, a better employee,
whatever it is that they're looking to improve upon. Unless
they're diligent at chipping at that stone, they're not going
to fit when they're brought over.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
To the to the temple sort of speak.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So if we if we look at masonry in the
way that Okay, this is something for which I'm going
to invest time so that I can become the best
version of myself. There's no rush. Let's let's work at it. Okay,
what did I learn.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
In this step?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
How can I apply that to my family, to my business?
All right? And then once you feel comfortable that you
are dexterous enough with those tools that you provided, now
you can start casting your gaze further along. But until then,
it's it's it's not it's I don't think it's a
sustainable effort to to see that as a as a
(06:01):
as an adequate tool for increasing membership.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Okay, Now, then I heard this when I was interviewing
another guest on Points of Light radio, And now, what
which one of those degrees do you have to have
(06:27):
in order to be a grand master of your lodge?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
You have to be a third degree. But that's actually
they change the degree structure within the last couple of
years where you get all three of your charity unit
fraternity degrees at one time.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Okay, Well, it's.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Not been received well by many members, but that's just
something that the Ivory Tower decided to do, So that's
what they did. Membership growth of the Nets Columbus has
been kind of stagnant as late, as we see in
most other fraternities.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Okay, so in order to.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Get people in, you get them in and then they
actually introduce a degree video as well into doing the
live degree as well. So you should show them a
twenty seven minute video. It's unavailable on YouTube if you
want to watch it as well, and it explains the
basics of the old one two three charity unity and
fraternity degrees kind of hits the highlights of it. The
only thing we used to keep secret was our degree work,
(07:23):
but now we've since the change. You can bring your wife,
your son, your daughter, or anyone you want to come
witness the degree work.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So that's our topic today of discussion here on Points
of Light Radio. Okay, these developments that you're seeing with degrees.
I'm going to bring some other guests on who are
very familiar with fraternalism, so let's see how we feel
(07:53):
about this that when we're finished interviewing everybody. Okay, I
don't know about you, but I'm kind of nervous about
what I'm seeing. I have some thoughts on that. Let
(08:30):
me give you a look at a discussion me and
mister McCool had from the Coolest Life podcast. Let me
let me show you a clip of the discussion we
had on degrees their meaning and importance. Yeah, and it
(08:50):
is funny because we're talking about that. At one of
our last meetings, we were talking about our one of
the organizations I belong to, our Purple Art degree, and
we're sitting around talking of about that, some of us
guys who'd been through it, and we're kind of because
there's a couple of guys that are supposed to be
going through it soon and we're not really telling the
whole thing about it, but we're talking inside stuff and
(09:10):
they're kind of sure. But we have that common bond
that those those degrees. And I think that's uh. I
think that is one of the things about the degrees.
Although they've changed meaning in some ways down through the years,
they still have that core value to them that you
(09:32):
learn so much from that degree. Wouldn't you agree, like
you you've learned so much. A good degree I always
talk about, and if you've watched my podcast, you'll see
that way I talk about, a good degree gives you
a lesson not just for the lodge, but for your life.
You're absolutely and I think you'll agree with me. You
get a message when you go through it yourself. And
(09:53):
then if you're like me, sometimes you've had the opportunity
to deserve others going through it and you pick something
up else up from you, and then you bring through
the degree. Uh, whoa, there's Morley. You wouldn't think like, wow,
I learned so much from that.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
And then there's the next step, which would be you're
the one putting the degree on. So here you are
trying to memorize those those moral yess that you're giving
this new guy, and you really get some true belief
and and I don't know what I'm looking for the
word you know it really it really hits that message
(10:30):
home when you start to memorize it and you're actually
performing that degree. I mean, it's the next step to me.
I mean definitely definitely going through it normally it's like
you know, drinking from a from the Yeah, but there's
just so much especially initially going through any of those
organizations within masonry. But then once you see it, as
as you mentioned, once you see it, it's like oh okay,
(10:52):
I didn't I didn't catch that last time. But then
once you start performing it, oh my gosh, it just
it just blows up in your mind goes wow. And
then of course the next step after that would be
your philosophers who are writing books about masonry and they're
talked about, Yeah, this true meaning here goes this direction.
If you want to take that fourth step, that's fine.
But I really like that third step.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, it is incredible, and like I said, you don't
just get it ends there. There's so much messaging from
it that'll come to you afterwards. And it's a beautiful thing.
But who better to offer his opinion on any fraternal
matter here in Points of Light Radio is Owen Snowton.
We all know him from numerous appearances here. Let's hear
what he has to say. Now, I understand you know
(11:39):
that times have changed, you know the meaning of our
degrees have changed in things, But like, how do you
feel about that? Do you feel that because I personally
feel that the degrees are for you. That's why we
bring you in, that's why we you know, like it.
(12:02):
So they're for you. They're not for your friends and
your family, They're for you. And that's that's basically where
I go with that. And do you feel that we
should maybe maintain the secrecy of these things that it
either has meaning or it doesn't.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
To me, that's I feel like secrecy within like the
rituals and ceremonies should stay secret because it always like
Freemasons thrived on that. People always curious of what that's
the great holes and what freemason is all about, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
But I think you'll agree with me, Like one of
the reasons for that secrecy is the degree is for you.
It's not for anybody else. It's part of that message
that we're trying to give you, and it helps us
focus that message on you. There's other people present, we
can't really do justice to that.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
You agree, Yeah, I agree with that. You must keep
it like private.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
That's such an.
Speaker 7 (13:02):
Import that's like bringing you know, sometimes when when when
when when you're dealing even with your kids or a
co worker and you want to take them aside and
have a conversation with the conversation.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Is for them, it's not for everyone else. I just
I never understood that. I think you'll agree.
Speaker 7 (13:23):
We we do mean to mean, we do need to
maintain the secrecy of that totally.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Now, this next guest is part of an organization that
is doing is evolving their degrees and rituals in the
what I feel is the right direction. And that's Jeffrey Brauner. Okay,
he's the tag of the Fraternal Order of moy Or,
(13:54):
also known as the President. But yeah, let's see what
they're doing, because they're obviously moving in the right direction.
Now you mentioned the ritual, is I can remember it? Now?
Is there a degree system to the Fraternal Order of
may Or are they?
Speaker 8 (14:11):
If there is so? And we actually added a new
degree this year as part of our twentieth anniversary celebration,
so that was one of the things we did as
part of that. Essentially, there's four degrees right now. The
first degree is the initiate, so that's someone who's joined
and is in the process of becoming a full member.
We consider that a degree. That's a degree that you
can fail and lose because if if you fail to
(14:32):
complete the process, that degree goes away and you start over.
And then Fellow Mai, any member of the Order in
good standing has the second degree, and then we have
two degrees above that, so and those degrees are the ones.
You know, if you've seen photos of our activities, you'll
see that we have blue fez's that we wear, and
there's a degree that wears the blue fez, and then
(14:52):
there's a new degree that we're in the different blue
fez that was created this year.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And how long would it take to reach you each of.
Speaker 8 (14:58):
These The membership process to join the perspective, member has
the ability to sort of go through a process with
some deadlines where they can speed it up or slow
it down based on how well they want to hit
those deadlines so they can move faster if they want to.
But that takes about five months at maximum, So you know,
(15:20):
it's a it's a process that's there to sort of
let people decide if this is what they want to
do and let us see that they're committed. It takes
a little while to reach the third degree hanui and
where the fees, and that's a process where we want
to make sure someone would be a good representative of
the organization because those are the most visible people at
a public event. They're wearing met as people know they're
(15:40):
a member, and so you want to be sure that
that is the right choice and that they're ready for that,
and so that is quite variable, that can take quite
a while. And then the fourth degree you actually have
to be a hanw MOI in good standing for ten
years to even be eligible for it. So we created
that degree this year and most of the people that
(16:02):
were rewarded that have been members for quite a while.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Is there a little ceremony for each one?
Speaker 8 (16:07):
There are good?
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, that's actually And how long do you think would
you say the ceremonies are anywhere like an hour?
Speaker 8 (16:15):
It varies, you know, most of those rituals, the first
few are fairly short. I'd say ten to fifteen minutes,
maybe twenty at most. The newest one is a little
more ornate, and so that one's probably closer to thirty
eight or forty minutes.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And how do you find them? Like, do you find that?
Because I've always said my favorite saying is good degrees
don't give you a lesson just for the order, It
gives you a lesson for life. Do you find they
do that?
Speaker 5 (16:44):
You know?
Speaker 8 (16:44):
I think they do. I think you know. The third
degree is designed to be a little bit of a
degree where you don't necessarily know how to get there, right,
It's a little bit of an exercise in patience, and
whereas the fourth degree has very specific criteria and their
criteria that tie directly into our values. And so to
an extent, it's a process of saying, you've been a member,
(17:07):
you're a member of good standing at a higher level,
you've been doing that for ten years? Are you living
our values? How well are you doing those things? And
you know, and it's an opportunity for people to reflect
and think a little bit about, Hey, there's some things
I should be doing before pursuing this degree.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So we've had an interesting discussion here brothers and sisters
right now when it comes to degrees. You've heard me
say this in other various other segments of Points of
(17:47):
Light Radio that I personally I'm not a four. I'm
not opposed entirely opposed to evolving our degrees prime example,
degree rallies, okay, and virtual degrees when the need presents itself,
sometimes yes, you do have to do that. Right However,
(18:10):
having said that, we need to keep the degrees and
the rituals secret, right, you know they have meaning or
they don't. And as you heard me say during this segment,
the message you get in a degree ceremony is meant
(18:33):
for you, right, it's your brothers or or it's and
sometimes brothers and sisters within that lodge that are trying
to impart a message to you. They're focusing on you, right,
and we cannot properly focus that message when you've got
(18:58):
friends and relatives in the room observing. I seriously believe that, right.
And as you've heard me talk to mister McCool about
how the secrecy of degrees leads to a common bond,
you're not going to feel that bond, right if everyone
(19:22):
else knows about what the message you just got, right,
And if you are in a position of leadership within
any of these fraternal organizations, these more esoteric ones, you
should do something to kind of influence away from changing
our degrees in such a way that you cheapen their
value and eliminate the secrecy of it. Right. However, it
(19:48):
was great to hear mister Browner talk about how they
have developed the degrees and involved their degrees within the
Fraternal Order of MOAI. Right. And obviously it's working because
becus they're adding new chapters, right, they've added one up
here in Canada in fact, right now, times change, right,
(20:08):
But as you've heard, the core message is for the
reciproc the recipient, right, right, And if we're going to
evolve our degrees. Let's evolve them in such a way
that they preserve their value, their messaging and their meeting.
And that's all we have for you today, brow this
(20:29):
is the Sisters. Before I go, I want to remind
you that this podcast is available on both YouTube and spreaker.
Please share, like, and subscribe wind View and Points of
Light Radio on YouTube. I also welcome your comments and input.
You can see the link to my PayPal in the
detailed section of this segment. You can hit on that
link make a voluntary donation to Points of Light Radio.
(20:51):
We will use that to move the podcast forward. My
Facebook handle is at facebook dot com slash Points of
Light Radio. My Twitter handle is at pea Light Radio
like blue Sky handle is at peel light radiosky dot Social.
You can see the link to my Spotify channel as
well as my Points of Light Radio store. We're others
(21:13):
and sisters. I appreciate your viewership and remember the message
that you heard here today about keeping maintaining the value
of our degrees and until we meet again, just step
(21:36):
into the light.
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