Mike Vitulano E117 @CPLPodcast

New Premier Podcast: @MikeMillerFC chats with Soccer Québec director of development and #CANM23 ast. coach Mike Vitulano.

Episode Transcript

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Welcome to the Premiere Podcast, yoursource of information about Canadian soccer. You
can find us on Apple, Spotifyand wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

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You can also chat with us onFacebook, Twitter and Instagram at CPL podcast.
Ladies and gentlemen from Montreal, QuebecMichael Miller. Hello everyone, and

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welcome to this episode of the PremierePodcast with you Always Straight from Montreal,
Quebec. Your host Michael Miller andWhitney. Today I have a very special
guest. He is one of therising stars in the Canadian soccer landscape when
it comes to coaching and player developmentespecially. Please welcome an old friend of

(01:18):
mine, straight from Montreal, Quebec, Mike Vitolano. How are you,
buddy. I'm doing well. That'squite an intro there. I don't know
if we get all those accolades,but I appreciate it. It's all good,
buddy. I mean, you've you'vedone a lot though over the years,
and as I said in the intro, you're like we've known each other

(01:38):
for a very long time, andI remember your days as a as an
amateur player, as a college player, and your transition towards coaching and all
the roles that you've filled over theyears. Your journey is quite an interesting
one. And if we can getall the way back to the very beginning,
when you were still playing back inthose days, you know that you

(02:00):
would end up filling those roles eventually? Did you know that you had uh?
Did you know that you wanted toend up in player development? No?
I didn't. I mean I didn'tstart coaching quite early. I think
sixteen years old. I was alreadyinvolved in clubs and doing camps. Uh.
I remember working with kids soccer ateighteen years old Whiss camps as well

(02:22):
with a friend of mine, DannyAnderson. So kid and Danny played a
role in shaping me in in uh, in coaching. But I think it's
where I got the bug was whenI was in the US on a scholarship
there and I was injured for oneseason. So my knee blew out first
day of preseason and uh, itwasn't a full out ACL but I had

(02:43):
an evolge in and I needed afew months before I can get back into
it. And asked coach if Ican still be involved a little bit in
the team and you know, notmoping my corner and do my recovery alone,
but be involved and try to getinvolved a little more in the tactics
and all of that, and thatkind of give me the bug of you
know, I was, I wasdoing the trips to the players, I
was on the bench for games,so the coach really got me involved and
it kind of gave me that inspiration. I was captain of the team as

(03:06):
well, so it inspired me tosay, man, maybe maybe there's something
to do here. But I hadcoached in Montreal with various clubs growing up
as well, so at eighteen,nineteen, twenty years old before before taking
off, So I guess that's whatinspired me the most. And then when
I came back, I think MarkDosantos was a big influence for me as
well. I played for him andhe kind of transferred a role for me

(03:30):
at Black Saint Louis and from thenon. You know, that's ten years
ago now or eleven, and fromthen on, Like I always believe that
if you you know, you workhard and you do the right things,
people will recognize your work. Andhopefully I'm still on track to do more.
Hopefully, and for those amongst ourlisteners who may not know exactly who

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you are what are the roles thatyou're currently filling in this Canadian soccer landscape
of ours. Yeah, so mymain role is for Quebec Soccer Director of
Development. It was recently appointed.I was Manager of Coaching Education for a
few years and then I was recentlyappointed the last last September October to Director

(04:11):
of Development. So that's a it'sa big role. It's a little bit
of a TD role for the province. It's a has to do with,
you know, the development of ourclubs and of our players throughout the province
and for Canada Soccer. I alsoI'm one of their learning facilitators for various
courses for the children, the licenseand the Youth License and the b or
da UM. I also have arole that's punctual role, you know,

(04:34):
on on invitation through Canada Soccer forthe the the youth national teams. So
whether it's you seventeens, recently withthe under twenty three, so it's on
invitation. It's it's it's not ajob per se, it's it's only when
you're you're called for those certain camps. But it''s obviously, ah, always

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a pleasure, definitely an honor toto go represent your your country at the
highest level as a coach. Definitely. Now going back, going back to
your tier days as a as asoccer player, I mean you've played at
a at a pretty high level.People may remember you as a as a
member of the Vier Attack who werethe Montreal Impact reserve team at the time.

(05:18):
Some people may know that you werean NCUBLE, a Division to national
champion with Franklin Pierce College in theUnited States. Now, when you think
back of those days when you werestill a soccer player, when you were
still an active soccer player, Ishould say, how would you say that

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the game has evolved, not onlyhere in Canada but in North America in
general. Have you seen any significantchanges between your time as a as an
active player and the current days.Yeah, and in terms of in terms
of play, well, the systemitself nowadays has way more opportunities than it
did back in the day. LikeI, I lucked out on getting an

(06:01):
opportunity for a trial for a scholarship. Uh, and there's there's many more
like me. Andrew LVII was ona scholarship particular, Dick wasn't a scholarship,
but we weren't many that that wentthrough that that pathway. I feel
now it's more systematic, like there'ssystems and places, there's there's opportunities through
different companies to get those those doorthose doors open. So that's one one

(06:25):
thing because once that comes, thoseopportunities exist, it inspires you more as
a player as a sixteen seventeen yearold. These days, through social media
and these opportunities, you're a littlebit more inspired because you know doors can
open. Back in the day,I think there was a little bit less
of that. Um. So that'sone factor. I think your question was
more in regards to the play itselfand the development of players. Um,

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I mean they's it's uh. Ithink the play is different, like just
the rule changes changed, like completely, the VR everything is as has completely
changed nowadays. But in general,I mean the profiles of the players.
We always said, like throughout myten years now as a full time in

(07:10):
coaching or in a soccer position,always said that we weren't developing enough in
Canada, enough of those gutsy wingersthat want to take on players and that
want to that really want to likethat won't almost embarrass you. They want
to beat you once and then beatyou twice and we were we were developing
good, modest, hard working playersas as young Canadians. But nowadays you

(07:32):
see the Jada Nelson's. You seethe young players at Cfmuncal TFCS or Vancouver
Whitecaps and then and even in amateurclubs that that our gutsy that are that
are courageous, that want to takeon players. So I feel like our
landscape is slowly changing. Well,Alfonso being being a great example, you
know, so leading the way.So I feel like our landscape is changing.

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Uh. Back in the day,one player would be that gutsy winger.
How you can find a team withfour or five players the fullbacks or
have that that courageous vibe to them. So I feel it's definitely changed from
my playing days. Um, Idon't think I would be that good of
a player these days, but wellwe'll never know, I guess now.

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Over the years soccer has gone,as you said, more organized and there's
definitely a multiplication of channels. Doyou feel as though perhaps amateur clubs individually
are better organized today than they wereback back in the day when you were
an active soccer player. Definitely,definitely. In Quebec, specifically in two

(08:45):
thousand and eight, there was afirst reform that was that was put in
place in terms of the reform forclubs, so I went from regional structures
to club structures and the region stillexisted but with a little bit of a
different role. And since then it'sit's professionalized a lot of positions, so
technical directors that we went, Ibelieve from from a handful to now maybe

(09:07):
you know, getting close to onehundred technical directors, people that are working
in clubs and their jobs is toorganize and structure the youth development which in
their club with a certain leadership.And now in twenty eighteen, it was
decided through club licensing initiative by CanadaSoccer, it was decided by the Quebec
Soccer Federation's board that we want tofollow in that direction because we believe in

(09:28):
it. And now we have theclub licensing program in Quebec as well,
through again Canada Soccer's initiative, andthere's more changes and clubs are getting more
organized and they're coming up with initiativesthat weren't possible ten years ago for various
reasons, but now that are there, it's actually possible to get some of
these things done, and um youknow, they have executive directors, there's

(09:52):
technical directors, there's sporting directors,there's there's people in charge of coaching education
within within clubs. So you seethat there's they're put emphasis and resources in
the right places to make sure thatultimately the players at the center of all
of this, and we keep developingmore boys and girls that can reach the
high level, but ultimately more boysand girls that that soccer gives them the

(10:16):
vehicle for success in the future,to be ready for life, to be
ready to go to university, tobe ready to be a good citizen.
Ultimately, I think that's what wehave to understand that youth development is about.
Soccer is just a vehicle. Wewant to make sure the soccer is
well organized, but ultimately good humanbeings have to come out of this and
that's that counts for sure. Whenyou're when you're supervising these youths, when

(10:39):
you when you spend time with thesewith these children, do you have do
you have a checklist when it comesto qualities to identify uh in terms of
who has the potential to eventually eithermake it as a professional soccer player or
at the very least as a youthsports or NC double a type player.
How early can you identify by thesekids? And I'd like to even ask

(11:03):
you how accurate can you generally beonce you've identified those kids? Yeah,
that's a great question. I mean, I have the pleasure in the honor
to deliver the Children License, whichis a close to twelve or sixty module
course, nine day course that's givenby Canada Soccer. And we have some

(11:24):
really good discussions, sometimes heated discussions, because that's our job as a learning
facilitators is just to facilitate those discussionsbetween coaches and get involved if we have
to. And there's a whole moduleabout identification of players, and this whole
concept that early early identification is notit's not helpful. I remember there's there's

(11:46):
a slide that shows a picture ofsix year olds and a picture of nine
year olds in a team picture picture, a team picture and nine year old,
six year olds, twelve year olds, and Messy was in all three
of those pictures. But impossible toknow who MESSI was at six, at
nine, at you know what Imean? Like, we often categorize kids
so early, but if we justgive them the opportunity to grow and to

(12:09):
learn and to develop through the sport. I think at later ages, at
thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, nowit becomes more interesting. They've gone through
pubid or, they have gone throughtheir body changes, they've gone through social
changes with dealing with elementary school tohigh school. Now they start maturing a
little bit. If we have moreplayers in those environments, then our chances

(12:31):
of developing higher level players are higher, rather than already discouraging players at nine,
Oh, you're not good enough.You're not going to continue in our
group because we're the A group.There's no such thing as a or B
group at nine, ten, eleven, twelve, Like, why, let's
just work with all the kids.If the kid wants to be there,
let's let's let's work with him.So for me personally, the one thing

(12:54):
that is non negotiable is hard workingkids, like kids that want to come
to training and want to work hard, Like that's non negotiable. You know,
the the lazy kid that it canbe great talent, but the laziness
won't get you to another level.A hard working kid, kids that are
that are that are caring, kidsthat can put that start understanding team first

(13:18):
mentality right at young ages you canyou can tell um. So you know,
there's this whole concept in children developmentabout discovering the ball, about loving
the ball and then sharing the ball. Well, we want more kids in
our in our environments that discover theball at those young ages, right six,
seven eight, it's the first timethey touch the ball with both feet.

(13:41):
They have to get used to tomoving and all that. But then
at eight nine or seven eight nineloving the ball and we often miss that
part. We want seven year oldsoccer game to look like what to look
like what we watched and Bayern MunichVersus don't mound, you know what I
mean. We want soccer to looklike that, But soccer at at seven
years old doesn't look like that.It should look like they're running all over

(14:01):
the place and they're and they're bumpingand they're following. That's what soccer should
look like at those ages. Butcan kids start loving the ball? So
can they be because they're very egocentricat those ages. Can they keep the
ball and love it so much thatthey want to dribble everyone and that's going
to create a future winger we spokeabout earlier, Because they want to dribble

(14:22):
everyone and when they lose it,they want to run back and get it
back because they love it so much. At nine, ten, eleven and
closer to the eleven in the twelves, can we start sharing the ball now,
because now I start thinking about mypartner on the field and saying,
oh, how can me and youbeat the opponent? Right, So those
for me are the non negotiables thatif kids go through that type of development,

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they're better set and better their toolboxis more full. At the age
of thirteen fourteen, now when wecan start talking about group tactics and we
can start talking about how to organizeyourselves better on the field. And I'm
not saying you don't organ nice kidsa nine and twelve, like you still
want it to look like a soccermatch, But at the same time,
there's individual development skills that they haveto learn and and sometimes we bypass all

(15:11):
of that because we wanted we expectit, like we think it's it's miniature
professionals. They're not miniature professionals.They're kids. You know, let's not
jump the steps. So that wasa little bit my way of of ofressing
like how to way identify players.I think the process should always be open
even at six there's late bloomers.It's a late blooming sport myself. You

(15:33):
know, you introduced me as youknow, I had had a little playering
career and all that. I onlymade a provincial Quebec team at the age
of seventeen and it was by Flukementor of mine. Samir grib which which
many know, saw me like ashe was leaving a pitch, he saw
me warming up and he says,hey, what's your name? I said

(15:54):
my name. He's like, okay, I want you to you'll get an
email. I want you to comein a worm up at seventeen years old.
Like think about being at the rightplace at the right time. Like
I was warming up, I wasprobably I don't know, picking my nose
or something. I don't know,but just to say at seventeen years old
I was. I was scouted.So and there's plenty of pros Holland from

(16:15):
Dortmund. I mean late age.The seventeen or eighteen is the first time
I think he included. He gotintegrated in a pro environment. So for
me, it's working in the missionof Quebec Soccer and French Dada. The
Prince DEPI so as many as possible, as much as possible in the best
environments possible. Let's try to keepthat pyramid at the bottom of the pyramid

(16:40):
really really, really wide until westart selecting and and and being precise with
who we want at the higher level, because ultimately we're working with ninety nine
percent of the kids we should beworking with, not the one percent that's
actually going to make a pro youknow. So that's that's my my preaching
message of the day. You've touchedup on so many, so many things

(17:03):
that I wanted to cover today,and the one thing that I'm going to
ask you about right now, andI don't think I'm speaking out of turn.
What I'm saying that there's a there'sa definite gap in our pyramid here
in Canada between the absolute top theprofessional level and UH and the bottom of
the pyramid. And we've been tryingto close that pyramid over the years,

(17:27):
most notably with the creation of Leagueone Ontario PLSQ, the Canadian Premier League,
but there is still a lot ofwork to be done. Now you're
talking about those late bloomers or thosethose talents which are kind of on defense
and have not exactly completed their development. What what pathway would you suggest for

(17:48):
these for these kids that are notquite at the MLS or even Canadian Premier
League level yet but are more thancomfortable in either use for it's or or
the third division here in Canada.I think there's there's nothing in particular,
but I think it's important that theythey're in an environment where they keep learning,

(18:10):
they keep having fun, and theykeep competing those is it's it's a
little bit of the trifecta of thethe the environment for human performance and if
they feel that, whether it's ina in a college, whether it's in
on a scholarship way, whether it'sin a Canadian university. UM, for
me that those are the environments thatthat are that need to be one be

(18:33):
available. You speak about these avenuesneed to be available, and they're more
and more available now. Um.But if a player feels that he's getting
good training by good coaches, it'sa it's a secure environment he or she
is learning, then then it's it'sit's okay. I mean there's not like

(18:55):
we're working right now to maybe reshapewhat the senior looks in in our province.
The senior part of the game looksin our province with the PLSQ having
an important role, the link tothe CPL. Let's hope in the future
a female CPL like we have toretweak a few things to make sure that
we bridge all those gaps that andmore opportunities are are available for young boys

(19:19):
and girls. You know, atthose ages of sixteen, seventeen eighteen,
we always felt that there was alittle bit of a gap, or a
big one, I should say.But by creating programs, by by creating
more opportunities, then I think we'rebetter setting the higher environment. I always
fall into the trap of comparing oursystem here in Canada with what is being

(19:41):
done either in the United States oreven in Europe. And the one thing
that I'm noticing a lot here inCanada, especially with amateur clubs, is
that you have let's say you havean amateur player spending time at his club
and then at some point in theoffseason and he'll go to an academy and

(20:03):
he'll kind of share his time betweena private academy and a community club.
And I know that there are manyschool of thoughts when it comes to that
specifically, but it's not exactly somethingthat we see a lot of elsewhere in
the world. I feel like it'ssomething that is quite unique here in Canada.
Now, from strictly from a playerdevelopment perspective, how do you feel

(20:27):
about these types of situations specifically?Yeah, Well, the first question that
comes to mind is how much Welldepending on the age of the kid,
but how much training can a kidactually take, like at some point because
already community amateur clubs are are moreand more, they're they're becoming year long

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programs, and already there we havequestion marks and I don't have all the
answers, and we don't have allthe answers, but there's there's definitely debates
out there about multi sport like untilwhat age should kids experiment with playing different
sports and not necessarily organized other sports, Like you don't need to play in
an organized hockey league, in soccerleague, in baseball league, but playing
other sports, trying other activities,developing different motor skills at eleven, twelve,

(21:15):
thirteen years old, so your bodyis best ready, like as an
athlete, that's best ready to livea higher environment later. It's a it's
a good question, I mean,so, so with that in mind,
if a kid is doing community clubfor you know, X amount of months,
and then he's jumping into the privateThere's not a problem with that except

(21:37):
for the risk of injury because nowwe're overloading the kid with training. If
he's already going three times a week, you know, or four times a
week for six or seven months,and then again he's going a few times
a week and he never gets timeoff, he never gets time to disconnect,
time to try other sports. Thenit becomes difficult. So like Quebec

(22:00):
soccer, we don't we don't reallyhave a position on We're never going to
stop a kid from doing those privatethose private trainings. However, um they
the parents and the kid need toquestion themselves like why am I doing this?
Like is it? Do I needsome time to myself? Do I
need some time off? Do Ineed So that's the only the only thing

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I question is do you really needmore? We try to like reaching the
ten thousand hours is not necessarily theway to go, Like you don't need
necessarily more more hours and more touchesand more this to to to get to
that next level. Because a lotof them and this happened. I watched
an HBO documentary of a short documentaryabout professionalizing youth sports or something like that,

(22:48):
and they spoke about like it startsway too early, and like parents
end up paying thousands and thousands ofdollars on all these programs, eight different
programs all year. But at theend of the day, it's not that
that's going to give you a betterchance to to go pro, you know.
Um So, I don't know.It's a good question, mane,
but it's it's an ongoing debate,that's for sure. Kids these days,

(23:12):
I mean, they're there. Someof them are sharing their time between private
and amateur clubs. Others, uh, later on, later on in their
in their amateur career, will haveto share their time between their either college
or university club and their and theiramateur or semipro club. That is also

(23:33):
a situation that is very unique,especially especially here in North America. You
don't see a lot of that elsewherein the world. Do you feel as
though, uh, youth sports orcollege sports should be fully integrated within within
the Canadian soccer pyramid because of howit contributes to a player's career, or

(24:00):
even or even certain cultures, oreven in terms of the infrastructure that is
available in some of those programs.Do you feel like for our pyramid to
be fully complete, we need toinclude these programs in order to have a
perfect view of what our sport lookslike in this country. Again, that's
a. That's a. That's areally good one. UM. I agree

(24:22):
that I use sports environment university sportsenvironment. It's professional, they're training every
day, quality coaches, infrastructure.What bothers me and all of that is
the length of the season. We'relooking at playing from what is it August
fifteenth to or August thirtieth to November. And then we and I lived it

(24:48):
in the NC Double A was identical. We had an offseason. Yeah,
but the offseason, Okay, you'llplay five games against D one schools and
you'll you'll, you'll, you'll liftweights, and you'll do your programs.
Imagine a season where you can playfrom August throughout all the way to to
May, like the actual school year, have the summer off and slowly get

(25:10):
back into it. Now, Ithink then there's a definite place for these
environments. They're still doing great work. Now the kid is the player man
or women is still in an educationalprogram, so they have to continue school,
they have to maintain their grades.Those kids were that are in use
sports, we're better preparing them fortheir future because they're managing school there.

(25:32):
And I lived in the US,so all these kids that are going through
sports programs, and we're talking aboutspecifically soccer, but we're definitely accomplishing that.
But the soccer piece having you know, I don't know how many games,
but sixteen or twenty games in threeand a half months, Like I
feel like, I feel like ifit was integrated over a year, it

(25:55):
becomes it becomes more interesting. Overseven eight months, it becomes way more
interesting to have a full integration ofthat. And but it's not to discredit
all the work that's done by thesecoaches and these programs. There's some great
programs across the country. There's somegreat programs in our own province, and
I just I just have a hardtime seeing it fit in when it's not

(26:18):
it's not like a full blown outcompetition where we're playing almost a year long
and and kids are getting like areal microcycles and like they're going through a
real to get used to the proenvironment. But it does prepare you.
It does prepare you those four seasonsyou play. It does it does prepare
you when you but it's it's likeyou're getting a sample of it. Only

(26:40):
I don't know. I don't knowif that was an option back when you
were playing the NC Double A soccer. But you see a lot of NC
Double A or U sports players completetheir their soccer year by joining a semi
pro team outside of their outside oftheir college season. Was that was that

(27:00):
available to you? But when youwere playing, Yeah, when I returned
to UM to a home for thesummer, I would I would join in
and play on an amateur an amateurclub here in Montreal, So yeah,
that does make sense. Like Ihad to travel, so it was different.
But for a player that's here,there are players that play in the
p lsq UH and then and thenat at some point there's a cutoff date.

(27:23):
I think there's only a number,a maximum number that can actually play
on the on the roster of universityplayers. But at certain date you belong
to university UM. But again,that one player will be going all year
when you combine both programs, andthen you throw footsal in there, because
some of them play footsal in thewinter and they play an intense season of

(27:45):
you know, twelve to sixteen matchesin those three months of winter, which
is an intense sport, different sportum. And then you add on,
you know, maybe the total campellsof this world, and you add on
there's some senior players that are universityplayers. They might not be not supposed
to do it, um, butthey play in five six different environments.

(28:06):
Now you're talking injuries, you're talkingyou know, mismanagement of your of your
body and all of that. Sofatigue, unable to concentrate on school anymore.
And so yeah, I wish itwas one one system that was fully
aligned, but it's difficult. Soit's working with people like for Soccer Quebec,
we definitely want to work with EGASecure. We do have a partnership

(28:30):
with them um to make sure thatthere's an alignment, which within the province
they were striving towards that UM.But it's obviously it's a work in progress,
definitely. And uh, you know, there there's one one issue that
you haven't mentioned that I that Ihave no choice but to mention. It's
the fact that sometimes contractual issues mightarise when it comes to the availability of

(28:56):
certain players when when season's kind ofoverlap, and that that that creates an
extra headache for people on both sidesof the spectrum as well. Yeah,
I agree with that. I meanthat's why, that's why we need to
work together. Like at the endof the day, it's it's uh where
it's an amateur system that and wewant to create these these professional semi professional

(29:19):
environments, but not to we don'twant to jeopardize anything else either, Like
we don't want to jeopardize everything likeany other programs. So it's about working
together. And yeah, that thewhole contract stuff and the politics I try
to stay away from. But allright now, I wanted to talk to
you about PLSQ as well, becauseobviously it's a it's a fairly recent league.

(29:45):
I mean, if I'm not mistaken, it was launched what twenty twelve,
well exactly twenty twelve. So forfor a league that's not even ten
years old, the progress has beenremarkable, but it's not anyway from a
night Again, from an outsider's pointof you, it's not quite where it
should be in terms of what itcould become. Uh, And I'd like

(30:07):
to ask you, like, whatadjustments do you think should be made in
order for PLSQ to be everything thatit that it could be a good one.
I mean, this is another internaldebate that we have I have with
colleagues, with friends, with withpeople that are in the in the business.
It's like, we finally I'll startwith this. We finally have and
I'm so proud to say it.We finally have a CPL lead like a

(30:32):
professional league in Canada. This islike, it's so important to have that.
It's so important to have that topof the pyramid. Within our own
country, there's the MLS. Arethree franchises in the MLS that that give
that that dream to to young players. But the fact that we have the
CPL and now you know they havethe rules and regulations that that speak about

(30:53):
having players, Uh what is itnine players or or a few players that
need under twenty three that need tohave a thousand minutes. So what that
does is it creates an environment wherethere's young promising players in this CPL league
because they have a certain age requirementsin terms of minutes and all that.

(31:15):
So our question now is as aPLSQ and I won't speak for Ontario,
but in the league one the samelevel is do we want to be a
league and an environment for players tobe to work towards the CPL, so
an environment where the top of aprovince can play at a senior level with

(31:37):
the hopes of when day breaking throughand playing in the CPL. Or do
we want to be a semi professionalleague that's really hosting these you know,
twenty five to thirty five year oldsor even thirty eight year olds such as
myself that can still play in thatleague maybe if they get fit, but
that can still play. Like,which where do we want to And I

(32:00):
feel like, personally this is myopinion, and I'm open about it because
it's the same discussions I have withmy colleagues. We're somewhere in between.
So there's some club coaches of thep LSQ will say, you know,
I'm gonna go with youth. I'mgoing to take the UA teams of our
club and accompany them with a fewolder kids twenty two, twenty three years
old, maybe with one or twotwo older guys, and we're going to

(32:20):
make a young team. There's othersthat are going to go just recruit some
of the best players in the province, doesn't matter the age, and strive
to win. The other one isstill in youth development. The first one
I mentioned is still in the youthdevelopment, late youth development, right last
will call it, whereas the otherone is looking for a result. But

(32:43):
our league is not defined well enoughto to say is this the environment we're
looking for for players or is itthis one should And my question is should
we leave that up to the coachesor each franchise to decide, or should
we be more prescriptive and say thisis the type of league we want.
We wanted a league for young playersto grow to play against men, so

(33:05):
you'd maybe be allowed to have fivesix players that are over overage. Let's
call it to Pleis and Caldre toto kind of I keep going back to
French, but to surround them togive them the experience that they need.
So I played that role. Ilived that in with the attack the Tiribau
in the old c CPSL or CSLback in the day UM. I played

(33:31):
two seasons. My first season waswith Marco Santos as a coach, and
we were a lot of UM likeminded, experienced players that came from different
avenues, you know, a higheraverage age. My second year was when
it officially became a reserve for theMontreal Impact officially and Philippe Lafoa was the

(33:53):
coach, and the approach here wasdifferent. It's let's take these young,
promising Quebec players and let's accompany themwith a couple of old geezers like myself
and Joey Courtesy and yannikam Goslin togive them that and Donny my Off to
give them that experience. These youngFrancesco Gussein Cal We met Max Tisso and

(34:14):
I had a blast with a guylike Maxiso as a teammate because he was
young, eighteen year old. I'mtwenty five years old, so we maybe
don't have much in common, butwe became like brothers by the end,
and this is what everybody in thegroup. And I hope that the little
tips, if there were any,that I could have given him as a
player, helped him become the playerhe became and the player he is now

(34:36):
with with Forge. So I believein that. But Philip had a clear
vision with the club to create thatenvironment. So what I'm saying is maybe
as a league we have a clearvision and we make it clear for clubs
and in our system and our youthdevelopment. This would be the end of
the youth development for boys and girls, because we have a PLSQ for women,

(35:00):
which is great, but it's clearwhat the role of this league or
this environment is for more opportunities towardsa CPL and NWSL and MLS Europe,
whatever it may be. But mypersonal opinion is that that's what it should
be, the end of youth development. That's where it should take a spot
in the pyramid. Others will believethat it should be. No, we

(35:22):
want to go to the Canadian Championshipand battle against CF Montreal and TFC,
and I have no problem with that, and but at one point we need
to exist. Maybe there's an interprovincialleague that can be created between several provinces
to have that top that somewhere betweenCPL and plsqus have another environment. But

(35:45):
I think we're There was talks ofa D two. I think you mentioned
in one of your your your episodes, So I don't know, there's a
there's a lot of there's a lotof different subjects and those are all definitely
a good discussions. Yeah, Ithink I'm as time is passing by,
I'm making my opinion about this seconddivision more and more clear. When it

(36:08):
comes to what I feel like itshould be and when it should be launched.
I I mean, I feel likewe're not quite done yet with the
Canadian Premier League expansion. Obviously,there's no professional I mean, there's no
Canadian Premier League team in Quebec.That alone is a huge issue to me.

(36:31):
But there is also no third divisionoutside of Quebec and Ontario, and
that, to me is probably evenbigger of an issue because you know,
we're talking about we're going in debtabout player development and an l s a
Q player, like a Quebec amateurplayer, has a clear pathway, like

(36:52):
to at least the semi the semipro level. He could identify PLSQ as
an end goal, and the samecan be said about amateur players in Ontario.
But outside of these two provinces therest of the country, when you
end up, I mean, whenyou get to the top of the amateur

(37:13):
pyramid, when you become a seniorplayer, that's all she wrote. There's
nothing to look forward to, andit's not like you could be an amateur
senior player and expect to make itfrom that level to the Canadian Premier League.
Do you think like all that tosay and all that to say,
do you agree with me that it'sprobably perhaps it's probably a bit too early

(37:37):
to discuss the creation of a seconddivision when we have so many things to
work on when it comes to ourfirst division and our third division. I
completely agree. I completely agree thatlike the CPL launched through is it three
years ago, we're about to goin our third season. Correct, we
still have a long way to developthat league and establish it properly within it

(38:02):
Like in the country, like easilytwo franchises in the province of Quebec,
easily one or two other franchises inthe province of Ontario. We speak about
the Maritimes, there's one or twocities that can definitely use another a CPL
team there. And then in therest of Canada, Saska, Saskat,
Saskatoon is a great news right comingforward for next year. Um. I

(38:28):
think once that's established, we canstart studying a little bit of the rest.
There's there's no rush for it,and then it's going to be adjusted.
So I don't see a rush.I agree with you. I don't
see a rush in the D tworight now. And to be honest,
financially that that's it's difficult. Ourlandscape is massive, like from from ocean
to ocean, or a constant Thetraveling Yeah, the traveling cost. Like

(38:52):
in Europe within ten kilometers you havefour pro clubs they can bike ry to
to to their games. We canbuy ry to Ontario. Well we can,
but it will take us a fewa few days. So that's it.
I agree with you. I agree. I think it's good to have
a plan, it's good to havea long term vision, but we need

(39:12):
to be methodical about this. AndI really like, again personally, I
don't know all the details, butI could personally like the way the CPLS
started with the with the people theychose to lead it, to lead the
coaching, to lead the management ofall this. But now we have to
keep solidifying that. And COVID definitelydidn't help, but we have to keep
solidifying all of that. I washaving a discussion with a colleague this morning

(39:37):
and I told him, I said, like leagues in Europe, the Championship
for the EPL, how many numberof years have they existed? I don't
even know the answer, but hundreds, I guess, like more than a
hundred. So the CPLS in yearthree, like we're we're it's we're like,
we're a tiny little baby compared towhat exists in the world. But

(39:59):
we're trying. What I like aboutit is our standards. We're setting the
standards high from the get go andthat's what that's what's going to count.
And if we keep pushing those standards, pulling towards from the top, I
think the rest will come eventually.And look at the creation of the CPL
with a future franchise in the provinceof Quebec hopefully will make me and my

(40:21):
staff and Quebec Soccer have to requestion what are we doing with senior And
those are the discussions we want tohave because it's a it's an evolving landscape
and if the day we fixed thelandscape, then it's because we're good.
Even the MLS. It's an evolvinglandscape. We weren't supposed to add any
more franchises and we just added likesix more in the last five years,

(40:42):
you know, you know, soit evolves and we have to be ready
to adapt. For sure. Yeah, one thing's for sure. I mean,
things can always change in the future, right, But Don Garber a
few years ago had made it quiteclear that he didn't want to keep expanding
in Canada at the very least,which makes it even more necessary to have

(41:02):
an ever expanding Canadian Premier League,not just Canadian Premier League, but Pyramid
altogether. And that that's why Ifeel like, at some point, when
the level is where we wanted tobe in the Canadian Premier League, I
think that our second division should bea professional league rather than the extension of
the third division. I don't Idon't think that we need another another semi

(41:28):
pro level as much as we wouldneed a second division which would be fully
professional but would serve as a asa as a clear feeder to the Canadian
Premier League, just like what theydid in Mexico with Liga Zenzo UH and
the Legua mckis. But you know, we're probably we're probably twenty years away
from now front from that anyway.Yeah, the the twenty twenty six World

(41:54):
Cup, the hosting of it,will help propel a few of these decisions.
And so for me, the keywould be, let's build and solidify
the CPL until then. Let's giveourselves these five years ahead of us.
Let's make sure that we have asolid product by then. Um and once
we host that World Cup with withthe US and the or mostly with the

(42:16):
US in Mexico. UM I thinkwe're we're going to give that uh that
that auma like the We're going topropel the the the soccer communities towards a
we there's an attachment to soccer.I heard that Matthew McConaughey, the one
of the owners of Austin FC,yesterday on the ESPN. Yeah, on

(42:37):
ESPN, and he was he wasjust talking about the passion, the passion
of the fans in Austin to tohave this. But it was built over
years and years and he took thetime to to build that. UM So
I think we need to take ourtime in that regard and not rush rush
something with D two and and andnot be clear with the whole system.

(43:00):
I think provinces need to be onboard, clubs need to be on board,
and then we make the right decisionfor the pathway. For sure.
Perhaps you can reassure me about onething specifically, I'm kind of I'm kind
of worried that we look at thetwenty twenty six World Cup as a be
all, end all, and afterthat has come and gone, we kind

(43:22):
of take a step back from expandingthe game in Canada. And I'm not
talking about the institutions obviously, I'mmore talking about the corporate world and it's
involvement in the game, and that'sone major part of the Canadian Premier League
success. Actually, it's the involvementof the corporate world, and that's the

(43:43):
big difference between that level and thethird division where amateur clubs. It's the
fact that not only corporate clubs aresponsoring I mean corporate entities are sponsoring these
clubs. They're actually involved in themanagement of these clubs and the management of
this of this league. And becausewe're not hosting this event on our own

(44:07):
and our participation will be quite limitedcompared to the the the entirety of the
event. I'm afraid that after twentytwenty six, the hype is going to
get a bit deflated when it comesto corporate involvement. Yeah, it's it's

(44:29):
it's a good one. I mean, I'm hoping that the twenty twenty six
World Cup really shakes the continent likeit shakes it in a way where people
that don't know what the beautiful gameis now no, and hopefully they have
the pockets, so so they canthey can help us propel the game.

(44:49):
As I said earlier, But like, let's look at nineteen ninety four,
right, the World Cup in US, the moment they hosted, and I
know it was only the US,but the moment they hosted, you saw
as of then you saw all theinvestments go up. You saw all the
attachment from from community clubs and kidsand parents saying hey, this is this
is soccer. And only sixteen seventeenyears later now today do you see the

(45:13):
MLS where it is? So Ihope it's not the end all be all
as you say. I hope it'sgonna wake up people that that because they've
had financial success in their life,the corporate world and all that can say
wow, like whatever is going onin Europe. I've maybe never seen it
with my own two eyes in termsof soccer and everything, but I just

(45:35):
felt the content and shake and Iwant to contribute to this, such as
Matthew McConaughey has done in his littlecity of Austin and the other what's his
name, Will Farrell in LFC whichthey're playing each other I think on Saturday.
So um, yeah, that's Iagree with you. But it's the
it's the biggest question. It's it'smoney. It's it's how do we get

(46:00):
how do we make sure that allthis is backed up financially with TV deals
and with with with streaming deals,with with companies and sponsors. Yeah,
definitely, And uh, it's it'slike it or not. It's an important
part of sport and you know,hit it or love it. There is

(46:22):
one thing that I that I likeabout the state of the game here in
Canada is that at the amateur level, the corporate the corporate involvement has to
limit itself to sponsorship, but theclubs are community owned and community managed,
which gives parents and uh and theinstitutions a lot more not only power,

(46:45):
but a lot more uh, alot more oversight when it comes to to
to to the day to day operationsof these clubs. Um. And if
I'm comparing to Europe, where mostclubs are are privately owned, it's definitely
we're definitely looking at two completely differentworlds. Uh. That being said,

(47:08):
we've seen a lot of private clubssee the latter day here in Canada,
and because they're not affiliated, theycannot they cannot compete against affiliated clubs.
They have to run independently. Umdo do you think that it would bring

(47:29):
something good to the sports if theseprivate clubs were allowed to compete against against
affiliated clubs. That's as it's agood one. It's a it's a touchy
one, right because because of myrole. But um, like in Quebec,

(47:51):
we have a particular model, aparticular model that exists with with with
the amateur clubs or the community clubsas you call them. They regional structure
that's right above, with Quebec Soccerbeing under the the umbrella of Canada Soccer
and so on. And by creatinga reform in two thousand and eight,

(48:13):
we again we professionalize the clubs.We're changing we're slightly modifying the reform now
with or we're we're accentuating it nowwith club licensing. What we don't want
to do is create a parallel likea parallel system to this, because then
it's going to create conflict and it'sgoing to create players not being able to

(48:37):
decide on going to one environment onthe other. So we want to give
a chance to club licensing. Wewant to give a few cycles of an
opportunity for clubs to really go outthere and show that they can be responsible
for their own actions, responsible forthe development of young kids. Not saying
they haven't done it in the lastfifteen years, but now we feel like

(48:58):
we're providing more direction and more toolsfor these clubs to do it. So
for me, let's give a chanceto the runner before we start opening up
the door to saying, okay,how can maybe private entities come about?
So in Ontario, I believe thelandscape was a little bit different, where
a couple of private entities started ontheir own, started having lots and lots

(49:20):
and lots of success, but thenand then eventually there was a recognition by
Ontario Soccer. I think in Quebecwe're not there yet, such as we're
not there to have a DE tworight away, We're not there yet to
give them access to play in competitionsagainst affiliate clubs. We're talking about two
hundred thousand players that are affiliated,and like there's benefits to being affiliated as

(49:44):
well, there's being a part ofa community club. Private entities can can
run and operate like we'll never stopthem from doing that, but at some
point when they overstep boundaries by bysolicitating play years by like, let's not
forget what we're doing this for.And I keep reminding clubs and I keep

(50:05):
reminding the regions. We're doing thisto develop good humans and good through soccer.
Like why are we fighting over theplayer who scored nine goals last season
that's thirteen years old? Like whyare we fighting over this player? Leave
him in an environment that he wantsto be in, that he feels he's
learning at and and so be it. And if that's a private environment that
the kid wants to be in,well, then there's quotation mark, there's

(50:30):
there's consequences that he might not beable to play in competition to be scouted
for the next level. Like wehave a pathway for players. He won't
necessarily fallow that pathway. So it'sgoing to be harder for that player to
make it. So there's decisions tobe made. But eventually we'll get around

(50:50):
to it. We're just not thereyet. That's clear, very clear.
I wish we had more time.Yeah, we can do it again,
no problem. Before we let eachother go, I'm going to give you
a chance to let us know whatto expect, what to look for in
the year twenty twenty one. Whenit comes to soccer right here in the

(51:14):
province of Quebec and everywhere else inCanada. Yeah, well we'll first off
like fingers cross for everyone across thecountry that we can resume um regular activities
at some point. You know.It's it's been tough. It's been tough
for clubs and for players, forparents as well, the whole COVID situations.

(51:36):
So we're we're hoping that the government'sgoing to give us positive news in
the in the next few weeks sowe can see kids on the field,
like you know, competing and andliving real uh you know, emotional moments
during during the competitions that we willput forward. Um. We you know,
for for Quebec soccer. We wehave to adapt our plans. I

(51:57):
feel like every day we're we're planningto plan, like we're we're constantly working
at it to make sure that wecan offer a good service throughout the province
this summer. Um. It's it'squite a quite a job to do,
to be honest, but we're gonnamake sure that we deliver for everyone because
that's a priority. It's it's uh, you know, can the kids go

(52:20):
back on the field and find thatenjoyment for the game again. It's not
about going in win championships and doingthat. It's find the enjoyment again,
re spark that that flame to makesure that these kids back to the mission
as many players as possible, aslong as possible, in the best environments.
Let's create that best environment right nowin twenty twenty one, we have
a shot to renite this whole thing. Twenty twenty was a little bit of

(52:43):
a shorter version, so hopefully twentytwenty one will be you know, well,
we'll take us two to October andthe winter months and we can we
can keep we can keep building this, uh, this landscape for young boys
and girls. Excellent. Again,congratulations on everything you've accomplished. Most recently

(53:05):
that that good run that you hadwith the Olympic team. It came very
close and hopefully, hopefully it willhappen for us next time. Yeah,
man, next. We're already lookingforward to the next Goolve cycle, that's
for sure. And there's a lotof promising, h promising games that are
coming forward with the men's national team, the women's national team, they're there

(53:28):
Olympic women's playing in the Olympics thissummer we have a we have a summer
action packed with games, the GoldCup, the Olympics, we have we
have the eurole we're flying with withgames, that's for sure, MLS,
NTL. Yeah, it's going tobe quite quite something. So yeah,
looking forward to uh to seeing howall of this continues for sure. Journey

(53:52):
excellent. Thanks again for accepting myinvitation and come back anytime, Mike,
Yeah, my pleasure, anytime.Yes, and see all the our listeners.
We'll catch you next week for anotherepisode of the premiere podcast m