June 18, 2025 • 62 mins
Ep. 288 - Three Shots, Two Oswalds, One Giant Psyop
David and Brad welcome JFK researcher John Young for a masterclass in government gaslighting that would make today's "fact-checkers" blush. After 36 years of research, Young reveals the holes in the Warren Commission's "lone gunman" fairy tale. From mysterious Secret Service agents who weren't actually Secret Service to witnesses conveniently dying in "accidents," this episode exposes how the deep state perfected the art of covering up inconvenient truths decades before social media made it trendy.
Highlights include the tragic story of Ralph Leon Yates—a working man who picked up an Oswald lookalike days before the assassination, told his coworkers about the encounter, then got rewarded with a lifetime in a mental institution courtesy of the FBI. Because nothing says "move along, nothing to see here" like destroying a whistleblower's entire family. Young also breaks down the impossible timeline that has Oswald simultaneously eating lunch and allegedly firing precision shots, plus the curious case of multiple Oswalds running around Dallas like some twisted CIA field exercise.
Fair warning: This episode contains more red pills than a pharmacy and enough government incompetence to make you question everything your civics teacher told you. Not recommended for those who still believe Lee Harvey Oswald was just a disgruntled communist with incredible timing and zero help.
A huge thank you to special guest John Young, who has his own podcast and book on the JFK Assassination.
Podcast: https://apple.co/3HL7fum
Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D2LD1P
David and Brad welcome JFK researcher John Young for a masterclass in government gaslighting that would make today's "fact-checkers" blush. After 36 years of research, Young reveals the holes in the Warren Commission's "lone gunman" fairy tale. From mysterious Secret Service agents who weren't actually Secret Service to witnesses conveniently dying in "accidents," this episode exposes how the deep state perfected the art of covering up inconvenient truths decades before social media made it trendy.
Highlights include the tragic story of Ralph Leon Yates—a working man who picked up an Oswald lookalike days before the assassination, told his coworkers about the encounter, then got rewarded with a lifetime in a mental institution courtesy of the FBI. Because nothing says "move along, nothing to see here" like destroying a whistleblower's entire family. Young also breaks down the impossible timeline that has Oswald simultaneously eating lunch and allegedly firing precision shots, plus the curious case of multiple Oswalds running around Dallas like some twisted CIA field exercise.
Fair warning: This episode contains more red pills than a pharmacy and enough government incompetence to make you question everything your civics teacher told you. Not recommended for those who still believe Lee Harvey Oswald was just a disgruntled communist with incredible timing and zero help.
A huge thank you to special guest John Young, who has his own podcast and book on the JFK Assassination.
Podcast: https://apple.co/3HL7fum
Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D2LD1P
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
In these bleak days, humanity is at a breaking point.
Economies are tanking, the woke mob is canceling everything, and
the little guy who's just trying to run a small
business is getting screwed from both ends. But not all
is lost. Amidst the chaos, two men offer up their
(00:26):
voices in the darkness, dropping two thousand pounds laser guided
truth bombs on today's lunacy, introducing the Sirens of Sanity,
David Pridham and l Bradley Sheaf.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
The Well, there it is, Brad. We didn't start the fire,
Billy Joel, who by the way, is now off the tour.
He's got some condition but hopefully he'll be back soon.
And today we're going to talk to an expert, Brad,
(01:05):
in the field of JFK assassinations and assassination research and review,
who also I believe, was in the Air Force, served
with you a while back, and maybe the Mexican American
War or sometime again, much older than I am, so
I don't know, but in any event, very exciting, very
(01:28):
exciting stuff and I can't wait to get to it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to it as well. And well,
I don't believe that mister Young started the fire. He's
certainly stoking it with his new book, and so let's
see what he has to say.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
David purdhaman Brad Sheief back here with you on the
iHeartRadio podcast network today we have a guest. As you know,
Brad and I are delving into the the JFK conspiracy
and the death of present and Kennedy, and we have vowed,
(02:02):
we have vowed to solve this thing before Brad leaves
for Central America next week, right brat wow, or at
least explore it to some extent, right either way. And
so in that regard, we've got John Young joining us
here today. John is a renowned author and podcaster on
(02:23):
the subject of all things JFK. His book, The End
of Innocence The Assassination of John F. Kennedy is a
great read. We highly recommend it. In addition, he has
a weekly podcast which I have started listening to in
the past few months on the JFK assassination. Both are
very approachable and allow for folks who are just getting
(02:45):
into it to understand what's going on. Both you know,
what's gone on historically regarding JFK and what is happening
today because there's a lot happening today with the Trump
administration and releasing some of these some of these files.
So John, welcome to the Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate appreciate you having.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Me on absolutely so. So can you tell us a
little bit about your your background. You're from You're from Texas.
Our company is based in in Dallas and uh so
we've been connected to Texas for almost twenty years now.
But could you tell us a little bit about your
your background and your story.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I'm actually from Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I've spent a lot a lot of time in Dallas,
so it's it's kind of my second home. But I'm
actually born and raised in the little town outside of
Fort Smith called Alma, Arkansas. And uh I've been studying
the assassination and researching for going on thirty six years now.
(03:47):
To be honest, I got involved. As strange as it sounds,
my grandfather when I was young, used to talk to
me about President Kennedy and just in I started in mechol.
It literally started with a book report. You know, back
then we did book reports. I don't know if the
kids do that nowadays. But you know, I did a
(04:08):
book report on the assassination, and uh, I was assigned
assigned this book report, and I was fascinated. I started digging,
digging through encyclopedias, you know, back then, that's what we
did as a reference. We didn't have the Internet, and
so just started digging through encyclopedias, reading everything I could
get my hands on for this book report. And it
(04:29):
literally started that way, and I got mesmerized and just
fascinated with the assassination. And and I tell people all
the time, UH, as a you know, sixth seventh grader. Uh,
while some of my friends were caring around comic books
and stuff like that, I was caring around, you know,
copies of six Seconds in Dallas by Josiah Thompson and
(04:53):
other books on the assassination. And you know, kids thought
I was kind of weird. And so I just become
obsessed with it at an early age and and stayed
that way through. I joined the Air Force in nineteen
eighty seven and I was stationed in Wichitaft Falls, Texas,
and I was still mas Brown's with the assassination, studying
(05:16):
it every you know, every free every free moment I
got and one of my heroes in the research community
was Penn Jones Junior. And I had a week in
leave and like I said, I stationed in Wichitaft Falls.
I had a week in leave and I said to myself,
I'm going to go track Ben Jones Junior down. And uh,
(05:38):
it's kind of gutsy on my part, but I take
off driving to Watchahachie, Texas. Uh he lived in He
lived actually in Boys, Texas, on a little farm which
is about four miles east of Watchahatchie. And so I
just I go into Watchahatchie stop at a little store, honestly,
(05:59):
and I'm on, these people are gonna think I'm crazy.
But I go in and I say this, any of
you happen to know where Penn Jones Junior lives? And
They're like, oh, yeah, yeah, you know, he lives down
on the farm. We see him all the time.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
One older gentleman actually drew me a little map on
a piece of paper and told me how to get
to his farm. So lo and behold here I am.
I mean, I am still wet behind the ears, twenty
years old. I drive to be Jones Junior's farm in Boys, Texas,
and I can still remember pulling up the driveway. My
(06:35):
knees were knocking because I was a nervous wreck. This
was a hero of mine for years. And I thought,
you know, I don't know if I'm want to pull
up here and he's gonna pull out a shotgun to
shoot me, you know what's going to happen. But I
knocked on the door.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
He come to the door.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
His wife, Olane was there, but he knocked on the door.
I introduced myself, and I'm on you that that moment
started a friendship that would last until he died, you know,
in ninety seven. And and he he took me in
that day and I spent four or five hours with
(07:14):
him at his ranch, and he just I mean, he
opened up his research material was showing me. I mean,
he was going to million miles an hour. His house
was like a shrine to the late President Kennedy. He
even had a replica rocking chair of Kennedy in his
office and pictures of Kennedy everywhere. Videotapes, you know, back
(07:36):
then everybody had the VHS. Videotapes, just wall to wall
videotapes documented everything. It was. It was a massive amount
of research material that he had accumulated over you know,
thirty five years since the since the assassination happened. And
that day really started my researching journey because over over
(08:00):
the next you know, uh, eight nine years up until
Pen passed away, you know, he become more than a mentor.
He become a really good friend. And and I looked
at him sort of a as a grandfather figure. He
he actually reminded me a lot of my grandfather, dressed
like him and kind of looked like him. And and
(08:21):
so my grandfather was someone that I just adored and
and only got to be with him a short nine
years before he passed.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
But uh, so.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
That that's really started my research journey in and Pen
opened doors for me that I could not have opened
myself with witnesses, with with other researchers. I actually in
the early nineties I got to meet Jim Mars, Jack White,
Robert Groden, Larry Harris, the very well known researchers that
(08:56):
that I admired, uh and actually joined a research group
al Dallas that that Jim had put together. I didn't
even know what existed, but Jim had put together this
little research group. We kind of met in secret so
to speak. And so you know, we would we would
meet on weekends and you know, I got to interview
(09:18):
dozens and dozens of witnesses, got to interview Secret Service agents,
got to sit down and have dinner with Marina Oswall
one night at her home, and that just it just
really opened doors for me that, like I said, I
wouldn't been able to open myself. And and Pen really
started that for me. And I dedicate my book in
(09:41):
front of my book, there's a dedication to de Penn
Jones Junior, because he's the one that really started kind
of kept that fire burning in me and pushed me
to to you know, open doors and and you know,
go out on a limb sometimes and go with my gun,
and go with my heart and and do take no
for an answer. And so anyway, I really owe a
(10:04):
tremendous amount to him. And just over the years, you know, uh,
Pen passed away in ninety seven, and I was, I
was there right before he died, and and uh, and
I just remember the last thing he said to me was,
you know, don't don't let them stop your research. Don't
let them, you know, slow you down. Just keep that
(10:25):
fire burning inside you to find out what happened, and
he gave me, I know, most of his research materials
at Baylor University and they've got it. It's all online
now you can find it. But I've got some very
very valuable things to me that he gave me over
the years, all kinds of handwritten notes and and some
research material and obviously copies of his book and sign
(10:49):
book and so things that I cherish.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And uh, so, well, that's grabbing. That's a great uh,
I mean, that's a great background. That's that's uh what
plus thirty plus years of research? What what was So
you had dinner with Marina Oswald? What was what was
what was her story? I know early on she was
one of the people that helped seal Oswalt's fate in
(11:13):
the mind of some in terms of his guilt. But
was she what what? What was she like to have
dinner with? What did she say about the assassination and
his guilt and uh, generally what was her perspective on
the assassination.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
At the time, At the time I met with her
and had dinner and and honestly did Jim Mars arranged it,
and so there were several of us researchers there. Her husband,
kennth Border was there and so at the time we
we had dinner with her. She she had totally flipped somewhat,
(11:50):
you know, she'd said early early on. Now keep in mind,
and a lot of people don't know this, right after
the assassination, they they literally took her and I wouldn't
say held her hostage, but they put her up in
the Six Flags in which was a motel hotel right
across the streets from six Flags theem Park.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And she was six Flags of Texas, Brad you know.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
That, Yeah, yeah, And she was literally held up there,
you know, with Secret Service agents FBI c I A
for for a week, uh and just questions berated.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
They you know, they threatened her with deportation back to Russia.
So she basically said what they wanted her to say. Uh,
and you know, they when when she was ready to
say what they wanted her to say, they you know,
they prenched her out in front of the cameras and
and she she basically went on national television and said, yeah,
that my husband was guilty and and all this. But
(12:53):
at the time, at the time I'd met with her
and had dinner with her, that that they totally flipped,
and she proclaimed his innocence. She even denied the backyard photos.
You know, the famous backyard photos that really convicted Lee
(13:13):
Oswell in the minds of the American public. That you know,
the backyard photos were published on the cover of Life magazine,
and that really convicted him in a lot of people's minds.
But you know, she told, she told us, and she
told many other researchers. Is too that day when she
took the photos, she took the photos of him standing
(13:36):
in the alley, okay, And the photos you see are
him standing at kind of the bottom of the stairwell,
are kind of beside the stairwell, And she said, that
is totally not where the pictures were taken. She said
they were taken in front of a little fence leading
(13:57):
into the alley. And that house on Neely Street in
Dallas is still there, and I've been there many, many times.
And anyway, I actually did a video call with her
one time while I was there and was saying, Okay,
this is where you say the photos are, Yes, this
is where the photos were taken, and she took she said,
(14:18):
I took one photo, not not numerous photos. I took
one of him standing in a totally different spot. And
then the backyard photos that you know, came out and
got published. So she even denied that, but.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
She you know that that's interesting the photos. Because one
of the things I did and explaining this to Brad,
because Brad came to town a while back and we
sat down and watched the new Oliver Stone and it's
that new anymore, but the Oliver's Stone documentary he put out,
uh re visited, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and so and
(14:51):
Brad and Brad was just like, I can't be can't
believe any of you know, this happened. And it's like
there are so many It's the one thing, right, the
JFK assassination in the history of this country where there
are so many threads that are loose that if you
start pulling on them, right like for example, the photos. Yeah,
I found out a couple of weeks ago from a
(15:12):
friend that there was a in the Dallas police custody.
They found some cutout of the photo and then there
was a Dallas policeman who may have posed. It's the
craziest thing, and it is all over the place in
this JFK thing from the grassy Knoll, to the forensics,
to the you know, the woman on the stairs, to
(15:34):
the the the autopsy, to the I mean, you can
come up with you know how many crazy deaths are
associated with with witnesses and folks who are somehow involved
in this in this thing. And it's just, you know,
when Brad and I started talking about it, you get
two hours into it and there are still a bunch
(15:56):
of things we didn't even we didn't even get to.
So let me ask you this, if if if I
were someone who was a skeptic but didn't know much
about it, and you know, you had to make three
points as to why this was a conspiracy or why
Oswald didn't do it, or just the three most salient
(16:20):
points that could could potentially sway someone who may be
a doubt or it doesn't know much about the assassination.
What what three points? Because you've got this terrific background
with this assassination, what what what three points would you
would you lean on?
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Number one? I would look at what the witnesses say.
All right, uh, look at where the witnesses place Lee
Harvey Oswall at the time of the shooting. Okay, don't
don't go off of what the what the warm report says,
dig into it. It's really readily available.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Now.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Uh, there are numerous witnesses that that put him on
the first or second floor in the lunch room that
as late as twelve twenty five, all right, And then
there's other witnesses that put him in the lunch room
buying a colt ninety seconds after the assassination. Okay, And
(17:20):
you'd say, well, you know, it's not that hard to
get up five flights of stairs and thirty four minutes.
One thing you got to understand, And I tell people
this all the time. Kennedy's a motorcade was set to
arrive in Deeley Plaza at twelve twenty five. That his
schedule was published. It was in the newspapers, and they
(17:42):
were set to arrive into the plaza at twelve twenty five.
That's when everybody thought Kendy's motorcade was going to arrive
in that area. It was late because he took a
little extra time at love Field to shake hands and
you know, greet the well wishers and stuff like that.
(18:03):
So the motorcade was running about five minutes behind. And
that's a huge deal anyone. And keep in mind there
were witnesses, numerous witnesses that saw two people in the
sixth floor window, in various windows in the sixth floor
(18:23):
from twelve fifteen up until the assassination. All Right, Lee
Harvey Oswall was we know one hundred percent by witness
statements in the lunch room area as late as twelve
twenty five. Okay, if I'm on Lee Harvey Oswall and
I'm planning to shoot John F. Kennedy, I am in
(18:46):
that window at twelve twenty five for sure, because that's
that's the moment I thought the motor Kaid was coming through. Okay,
I'm I'm set, I'm positioned, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
All right.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
He was in the lunchroom eating his lunch, drinking a coke.
There were witnesses that put other people in that window.
Several witnesses saw a ify set man in.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
A brown coat.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
He mentioned a lot by several witnesses with horn room glasses,
and he was seen in the window. There was several
people that saw two people in the window leading up
to the assassination. I'm talking minutes before the assassination. So
the warn report wants us to believe that Lee Harvey
Oswall at twelve twenty six. You know, went up five
(19:36):
flights of stairs across across the crowded room that back
back when that happened, the sixth floor was covered in boxes.
It was a it was a warehouse for school books.
It was a maze up there. It wasn't I mean,
it would take you a good thirty forty five seconds
to get from one side of the room to the other.
(19:56):
And the stairwell was on the opposite side of the room.
As the Southeast want to work here, the shooting occurred,
and they want they want us to believe that he
jotted up there five flights of stairs, Tom cool and collective,
three shots at the president.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Hm.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
And you know, wpped it wipped the gun clean of
fingerprints because the prints were not found except for a
mysterious pomp print. And I can talk about that too, uh.
And then hit the gun. Went back down the stairs
ninety seconds after the shooting. And by the way, he
went back down those stairs past several women who did
(20:35):
not see him, did not hear him.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
And and was cool, calm and collective back in the
lunch room. That was Victoria Adams, right, Victoria Adams in
Sandra Stiles and Officer Maryon Baker rushed into depository ninety
seconds after the shooting. It's it's clearly it's it's been
studied and recreated. Ninety seconds after the shooting, Officer Maryon
(20:58):
Baker in Count Oswald in the untrim drinking a coke,
all right, Tom cole collective, not our bareath not you know,
not sweating, you know. And he was with Roy Truley,
who was the superintendent of the depository, you know. And
so it's just to me, look at look at some
(21:20):
of the witness statements where Oswald was before the shooting,
leading up to the shooting, and then moments after the shooting,
all right, and then his actions after the shooting. What
does he do? I mean, this is this is the
supposed assassin of the president, all right? Does does he
(21:40):
escape in a mad rush? He walks out the front door, calmly,
seen by seen by numerous witnesses, and goes and catches
a bus. He first he first tries to flag down
a cab and get this, he flags down a cab.
The cab up, and a woman comes up, A pregnant
(22:02):
woman comes up, and I've spoken to her, and he
gives his cab up to her. This is true story.
He gives his cab up to this lady. I mean,
this is the you know, accused assassin of the president
trying to escape the area, and he gives his cab
up to a to a woman. I mean, come on, uh,
(22:24):
all right, And so he ends up catching a bus.
The bus that he that he hops on is heading
right back into Dealey Plaza, all right. The bus gets
caught up in all kinds of traffic. He jumps off
the bus and then goes to the Greyhound bus station
and tries to catch another cab, and he eventually does
and it takes him to his rooming house. And so
(22:47):
that would be one thing I would I would look
at where he was moments before the shooting and moments
after the shooting, and I would say that's one thing
that that proves his innocence. So if you really dig
into it and study it, that alone proves his innocence.
Number Two, I would look at witness statements and what
(23:08):
they saw and hearred around the Grassy No area. I've
become very very good friends, very close with Ed Hoffman
and his wife Rosie h And I don't know if
a lot of your listeners know who Ed Hoffman was.
But Ed was a deaf mute and he witnessed the
assassination and he he had pulled his car. He had
(23:33):
actually left work, was on his way to a dentist appointment,
and he pulled his car off the side of Stemmings Freeway.
He didn't want to get caught up in traffic, but
he just wanted to get a glimpse of the president
as he kind of drove by. He knew the route.
He knew that Kennedy was going to be hopping on
Stemmins Freeway, so he pulled his car off the side
(23:54):
of the Stemmings Freeway there but where he was sanding,
he had a clear view of the picket fence area
where a lot of people claim shots came from a
lot of people and uh, Ed and Ed's been on
many documentaries. Ed said he saw a shooter behind the
(24:14):
picket fence. He saw two men. One was dressed in
uh like a railroad outfit.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
The other was dressed as like a police officer. He
saw two men behind the picket fence. One of them
fired a shot. All right, Now, keep in mind he
was he was a deaf mute, so he had a
hard time communicating with people.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
All right.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
He he saw the shooting, He saw one guy shoot,
tossed the rifle to another guy. The guy in the
police uniform or what he what he described as a
police uniform, fired fired shots. Uh, hosted the rifle to
the other gentleman who was a railroad worker. He broke
the gun down, put it in a bag, and just
(25:00):
walked away. And they walked off in different directions.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
All right.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Numerous witnesses moments after the shooting, and there's all kinds
of pictures, videos, rushed that Grassy Know area, okay, and
many of them were being chewed away and told to
get out of the area by Secret Service agents, people
that were flashing Secret Service credentials on the Grassy Know.
(25:26):
And this is readily available. Anybody can look this up.
But guess what, there were no Secret Service agents at
that time on the Grassy Know or even in Dealey Plaza.
They were all with the motor cake.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
That's in the Warren report, right that fact.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Yeah, yeah, I mean who were these people, I mean,
who were these people impersonating Secret Service agents? And why
were they so? I mean, Dallas police officers ran into
some of these guys that produced secret Service credentials and
told them to get out of that area. They did
not want anyone in that area behind the picket fans
(26:01):
along the grass.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You know, well, you know what, you know what I
think is interesting and Brad, this is rid of your
your your neck of the woods. But so Ed Hoffman.
I saw him on the documentary The Men who Killed Kennedy,
and he is he You know, there are a lot
of the there are folks who raise issues with his story.
(26:22):
But you also have there was a documentary where they
had some of the railroad men and I forget maybe
the guy who did Last Second in Dallas who filmed them,
but joe Jo Thompson, Josiah Thompson, where the railroad men
are talking about what they saw behind the fence, and
then you know, they found cigarette butts and they saw
(26:44):
puff of smoke. And then the guy who was working
the in the railroad yard who I don't I don't
remember his name, Lee Bower, Lee b Ours, Lee Bars.
He also he testified in front of the Warren Commission
and he testified that there was a lot of strange
stuff happening right around that fence too. So it's not
just Hoffman. And then Bowers I think died in a
(27:04):
like a one. He's one of the many people that
died in some like one car car accident in the
middle of a country road in Texas.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Oh there's yeah, yeah, pen pen was Jones Jr. Was
you know, Pan really got off on the mysterious Dess
and he dug deep, deep, deep deep into that. And
Lee Bowers was one of the first ones that he
really move into.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
But you know, you know, I made it, I made
and I made a list. So Brad, you're gonna love this.
So this is just a partial list of these these
strange deaths. Like you've got Grant Stockdale, who's a friend
of JFK, throws himself out of a window a couple
of days after the assassination. You know, Gary Underhill, Brad,
we've talked about before. Mary Pinschow Meyers, the lover of JFK,
(27:47):
was killed in Rock Creek Park in d c. Winston Scott,
the CIA station chief Dorothy Killgowan, who was on to
tell the truth right, who was investigating this thing. She
was a famous a famous journalist. David Ferry was the
guy played by Joe Peshi and the JFK thing, Roger
(28:07):
Craig who was a sheriff, and then William Bruce Pritzker,
who was connected to the autopsy. I mean, and I
want to get Brad stick on this too, because these
are all people who, like in the sixties, most cases
in the early sixties contemporaneous with this assassination or the
subsequent investigations, killed themselves or died in very mysterious ways.
(28:27):
And that doesn't even mention that George de Mornshield who
was being set up to be interviewed by the House
Committee in the seventies and the guy was like knocking
on the door and he found they found him dead.
So you know, at some point, and Brad want to
get your thoughts on this, what do you? What do you?
There are a lot of strange debts here.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Well, John, to kind of go back to the opening
of the show where David was introducing us, You've got
kind of both sides of the JFK coin here. It's
kind of generally in America, right, So David it is
an enthusiast, he likes this stuff, he's into it, and
I was sort of like just the average American of
(29:07):
my age, right, So Dave and I are both in
our mid fifties, So obviously I'm very aware of the jail.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You're a little you're a little to be honest, and
we want to tell John the truth. You're a bit
older than me, doesn't matter how.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
You're David looks older, but I am older and so
they so, you know, I mean, I'm obviously aware of
the assassination. I'm aware that there's, you know, all of
this sort of mystery around it, but never paid any
attention to it until David was kind of introducing me
to it. Right, So as for me, and it's it's
(29:39):
very it's fascinating to listen to you guys talk about
it and all of the you know, just kind of
unexplainable amount of weirdness for lack of a better term,
that is around this assassination. And you know, so, as
David mentioned my background, I was in the military, and
(30:01):
then I was an FBI agent, and then I got
out of the government. Dave and I met and we
went into business together.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
But for me, there's just one.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Kind of part of the story, I guess or supposed
fact that just doesn't work, and that is the the
you know, the quote unquote magic bullet, and so we
can come back to that. But I guess what I
want to having listened to all of this, is the
theory thean then that Oswald is uninvolved in the assassination
(30:33):
entirely other than as a patsy. Right, So Oswald is
never on the sixth floor. It's someone else entirely, And
you know, they take the shots from the sixth floor,
and then there's you know, some other member of the
conspiracy that's behind the picket fence and they take at
least one shot from there. That's that's kind of your
(30:57):
view of it is that, you know, so it's not
like oz One was either Obviously you don't believe that
he was the only shooter, but he wasn't even one
of the shooters. He's just just kind of hang around
the book depository doing his job on the day that
JFK Is killed and kind of oblivious to what's going
(31:17):
on around him, and that it's others who are doing
all of the shooting.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
You know, That's one of the things that funted me
for years is what was his role? And I'm going
to be honest with you, after thirty six years of research,
I'm not sure what his role was that day. He
had a role to play. Now, some people, some researchers,
believe he was one of the shooters. Some researchers believe
(31:46):
he was possibly there to prevent the assassination. He had
a role to play that day. I don't know what
his role was. And I've been on both sides of
the fence with this. As far as I never I
have never thought, after all the witnesses I've spoken with,
looked them in the eye, you know, these are these
(32:08):
are not people that I was paying money to to
sit down and you know, give me their story. None
of these people, you know, got rich off of sitting
down and talking to a lot of us researchers, but
looking them in the eye, meeting them, shaking their hand,
being in their homes after all that, I do not
believe that Lee Harvey All's off iredy shot that day.
(32:28):
But I do not, even to this day, I do
not know what his role was.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Well, yeah, it.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Didn't sound like he could have been based on what
you were talking about before with the Starowell and kind
of where he was before and after that, he could
have been on the sixth floor.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
And that's fine.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
I mean again, I'm not I'm not in any way,
shape or form an expert. I'm just kind of learning
as we go along here. But who so there in
order for him not to have been on the sixth floor?
I mean, I don't think there's any debate that somebody
was right from that floor, right, Okay, So how does
that person get in and out of the depository without
(33:11):
somebody who works there, you know, especially if it was
kind of the rabbit warren as you describe it, seeing
them and there being at least one witness who says, well, out,
I don't know who this guy was, but there was
somebody that we don't recognize or that you know, we
hadn't seen before in the building today, and you know
we saw him at this point or that point. So
I mean, whoever this person was, who was the sixth
(33:34):
floor shooter somehow gets in and out of that building unobserved?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Right? I mean is that kind of the theory right exactly?
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Yeah? And no, you know it's a good point there.
There's not been anyone that has come out that we
know of that has said, yeah, there was a strange
gentleman you know in the building.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Hey, John, real quick wouldn't they have to get down
the same stairs though, So all the people that were
talking about that Oswald didn't pass. Whoever this was, would
have to go down that same there's only one way
up and down right or the elevator.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
But yes, yeah, they would have to go down the
same stairs. But there are witnesses that place the Hivy
set man that I talked about earlier in the brown coat,
there are some witnesses that they saw him steal in
the window as late as thirty seconds after the shooting,
(34:30):
all right, kind of looking out the window as to,
you know, admire what had just happened. So where did
that gentleman go. I don't know who that gentleman was.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I don't know what was there a moment so maryon Baker,
the police officer was in the saws wall drinking the
coke within like was that a couple of minutes of
the assassination.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Or ninety seconds after ninety seconds.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And then he goes to the stairs and goes up
the stairs. So and then did he from that point?
Was the building secure or were there points where there
were lapses in? Oh?
Speaker 4 (35:06):
No, the building the building wasn't secured until at least
fifteen minutes after the assassination. It maybe longer, reports say
twelve forty five. But I've spoken to witnesses that say
they were in and out of that building as late
as one o'clock.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
So did Baker leave the building after he I guess
he would ascended and.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Then did they actually were heading to the roof. Baker
thought stots came from the roof, and so Baker and
Roy truly, and the elevator was not working that day.
By the way, they had an old, old grain elevator
in the depository. The elevator was not working that day.
It was down, so it wasn't working that day. So
(35:49):
that's why, you know, the stairs come into play to
get up and down those floors. There was one stairwell,
and so Baker, Officer Baker, and Roy Truly, the superintendent,
they were actually making their way to the roof because
that's where Baker thought shots came from. He saw pigeons.
Uh when when the shots fired, he saw pigeons fly
(36:14):
off the roof. That that caught his attention. So he immediately,
I mean Maker immediately, uh you know, threw down his
motorcycle and and went into the book depository and they
come up to Roy Truly who was the superintendent of
the building. And then you know, they start going floor
to floor and they're you know, they're searching for you know,
(36:35):
floor by floor, making their way to the roof. Uh
and they did. They they actually got up there and
searched the roof area. But uh so, yeah, it's where
where did the guy go that? What that was the shooter?
H I don't know that. Nobody knows if they know that,
they're you're not talking.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Did there have to be a shooter from the building.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
The blissed said. I've studied there had to be at
least one shot from there. Now I believe there were
shots from the dall text Building and possibly shots from
the Dallas County Records Building. A little known fact that
a lot of people don't believe is there was a
spent bullet thirty odd shell found on the top of
(37:24):
the County Records Building. And I forget the year, I
want to say, and this is easily looked up. Seventy
six or seventy seven. There was a air conditioned worker
up there working on an air condition because it was leaking,
and he found a bullet an old bullet casing underneath
(37:44):
the lip of this air conditioner on top of the
Dallas County Records Building, which is a place where I
believe at least one of the shots came from looking
at the trajectories. So and that's a little known fact
that a lot of people don't believe. But it's easily
you can easily look it up. So, you know, was
(38:05):
there a shooter up there? I mean there were there
were numerous witnesses that placed, you know, a shooter on
the grass.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
It just this thing is like a giant puzzle. It's
like a giant puzzle. And Pen always told me, you know,
he said, he said, imagine getting a ten thousand piece
chicksaw puzzle and throwing it on the table. That's what
this assassination is.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
With no corner pieces. There are no corner pieces.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
And it's just like but but if you if you
start putting pieces together, all right, things start making sense slightly.
Bowers that you mentioned him and edge him and hoffin
story matches up perfectly. They did not know each other.
They had no idea what the other one was saying.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
And by the way, Ed went to the FBI office
in Dallas right after the shooting and tried to tell
the FBI he saw what he had just witnessed. They
had a hard time communicating with him because he's death
and honestly, they didn't have anyone there who knew signed,
so they just basically told him to get lost. And
(39:15):
this is documented. Also. He went back the following Monday,
all right, the twenty fifth, he went back to that
same FBI office trying to tell his story once again,
and they basically ignored him.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
You know.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
So, but his story and other witness testimonies match up.
His story matches up with Lee Bollards. Like I said,
it's a puzzle. You start putting little pieces together and
you can't solve the whole thing in two weeks guys.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Sorry, living in a couple of days. Yeah, but when
you when.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
You start putting pieces together, things start making sense. I've
been on you know, I've been on a journey recently
that I never dreamed I would go on. And it
was the two Oswall theory. For years, research friends of mine,
(40:13):
Jim Mars, Jack White, Robert Roden, I mean, been and
others from very early on believed that there was a
second Oswald in and around Dallas leading up to the assassination,
and I'm gonna be honest. They would talk about it
and I would kind of tune them out because I
thought it was crazy and I thought it sounded, you know,
(40:34):
conspiracy nuts and you know. And one of the things
Ben told me, he said, someday, I want you to
really dive into this, and I want you to research
this and you will see what we're saying it's true.
So I took I took some time several years ago
and put all my other research aside, and I said,
(40:56):
I'm going to dive into this second Oswall theory. Uh
kind of well, is it that?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
And I don't mean to interrupt you, John, but isn't
this The one of the things Brad and I have
talked about before is that whole Ralph leon Yates thing
where he picked up a hitchhiker and the guy looked
just like Oswald and he went back and actually told
one of his co workers, yes, the the story before
the assassination took place of a guy with the curtain
(41:22):
rods and all this craziness and then the and tell
me if I'm wrong. But then the assassination took place,
and it looked just like the guy he had picked up,
but it couldn't have been Oswald because he was working
at the time.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Oh and listen, guys, there are so many I started
investigating this, and I mean, there's a documented proof of
a lot of these things that I'm saying. There were
so many signings of Oswall.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
There was.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
There was a gentleman. Oswall had been meeting with the
Texas Employment Commission. He met with with with them several times,
and he was interviewed by a lady there named lor
Cotrell three different times. So she had spent three to
(42:11):
four hours with Lee Oswall. One day October seventeenth, when
Oswald was working at the Texas school Book Depository. We
know this from his time card and his coworkers. A
gentleman come to the Texas Employment Commission, who Miss Katrell said,
looked strikingly, incredibly resembling Oswald, right, And he tried to
(42:36):
tell her that he was Lee Harvey Oswall, but she
knew he was not. She had met with Lee Oswall
numerous times. But this guy knew Oswald's story. He was
talking about being in Russia, he was talking about his
Russian wife, he was talking about his small child and
had another one on the way. He knew Oswell's story,
(42:57):
but Miss Cottrell said it was not Lee Harvey Oswall.
I'd met with him numerous times. I knew for a
fact it wasn't. But but this guy wanted her to
think that he was Lee Oswald for some reason. There's
so many occasions like that. On Saturday, November ninth, just
weeks before the assassination, a gentleman comes into the Lincoln
(43:19):
Mercury Lincoln Mercury Ley dealership in downtown Dallas, wanted to
test drive a car.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Lee Oswall never drove, couldn't drive. And Marina said that,
but that's on record too, But that's not the point here.
This guy wanted to test drive a car.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
The manager of the car lot went with him, all right,
And his name was Albert Bogart. And Albert Bougard actually wrote,
and I've seen this business card. I've seen pictures of it.
He actually wrote, uh, Lee Harvey Oswell on the back
of his business card because that's that was a name
he was given by this gentleman. And and this this gentleman, Uh,
(44:00):
they test drive a car together and he drives like
a like a freaking maniac. And mister Boguard, you know,
said he's driving you know, down Stemmens Freeway, you know,
seventy miles an hour, which no big deal nowadays, what
back then it was? But uh, you know, but he
told mister Bogard his name numerous times. Uh, this was
not Lee Harvey Olswall uh at the gun range. Uh
(44:23):
at the sports Drone Raffle range in Dallas, there were
several several times that a man passing himself off as
Lee Harvey Olswell to people telling them his name was
seen at the rifle range, uh, bleeding up to the assassination.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
And there was also in In if I remember correctly,
there was a phone conversation recorded between Hoover and President
Johnsones where they were talking about an impersonator in Mexico
City and someone who would approached the Russian cots that
(45:00):
a I'm not sure which consolate, but who was pretending
to be Oswald? And Brad If you look at the
picture of this guy striking, he looked like Mike did guy.
He didn't look at anything like Oswald. He looked like a mustache.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
And you know, you're right, I've always thought who does
that guy look like the fact Yeah, you're exactly right,
it did look like Nick. The fact that that they
they said that that was Lee Harvey Oswald was really
comical that he was a he was a heavy or
said Balding.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
You know, yeah, well well Brad, you can you can
listen to a conversation. Yeah, that's your check.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
But he would be a much better candidate for an assassination.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
He could get down these stars seconds. Yeah, but Brad,
there's actually a conversation between Johnson and Hoover were Hoover
is saying, look, we we have these recordings of of
this guy who claimed to be Oswald in Mexico City,
and it's clear he's saying he's telling Johnson, he's clear,
it's clearly not him. It's clearly different than the guy
we have in custody is before they killed, before Oswald
(46:04):
was killed. But it's and that's just the thing about
this whole story is that, you know, we didn't even
get into the Mexico City stuff, or the autopsy stuff
or the I mean, it's just there, they're so and
then and then you know, it doesn't even take into
account the whole story about how Oswald got to Russia
(46:27):
and then got back here, and and how he was
able to afford his lifestyle there and all that, and
there are just so many stories. And you know, you
look back at the other assassinations in American presidential history,
none of them, even Lincoln, none of them have these
all these threads. Even Lincoln, it's pretty clear who the
(46:48):
conspirators were, and even who they weren't. They pretty much
hung them all. And and you know, this thing, it's
just amazing how many different avenues there are two exploring.
Just when you think you've got the answers to one,
there's another, and then there's another, and then there's another.
(47:09):
And you know, John, interesting question for me is that
I know we're running out of time, is do you
think that these current disclosures that are coming out, and
maybe more modern technology and the like, do you think
there's any way we're gonna actually find out what happened here?
Speaker 4 (47:31):
I don't think so. Too much time has passed anything.
You know, people were so excited about the records being released, which,
by the way, Trump said that there would be no reactions. Well,
there are reactions. There's a lot of reactions, all right.
So everything's still not being told why you know, you
(47:52):
know Bradle was in the FBI. I mean, why, why
sixty two years after these asassination are things still being hidden.
It's ridiculous. We know every all files on nine to
eleven have been released, but yet we still don't know
everything there is to know about the Kennedy assassination. That
(48:13):
that that the government knew. But no, I think too
much time has passed. Too many witnesses have died. Wait,
I mean most witnesses have died. Uh. If you if
you don't have them on record, you have no idea
what what they really said, which I'm glad I've got
dozens and dozens on record. But there's no smoking gun
in these files.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
I do not.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
Believe that that. And the files are incredibly heedious to
go through. There's no search engine on the on the
National ar Cause website, there never has been. Uh, the
files are not you know, you can't go on there
and search Lee Harvey Oswell on all the files or
lateon Oswole comes up. I mean, and you have to
match up the the unredacted version with the redacted version
(48:55):
and see and it's just it's such a tedious process.
And I've been I've been doing it. You know, every
spare second I get. But I do not believe that
there's some things that's come out. Uh, there's some stuff
about James Angleton, who was the counterintelligence chief of Let's Ah,
who clearly had a relationship with Oswald, who clearly there's
(49:20):
something there with Angleton.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
And you know what's amazing about that, and that I
found out I was I read Ben Bradley's biography a
few years ago, and I caught the story about his
ex wife's sister, who was Mary pinchchet Meyer, who was
the one she's the one brother was killed on the
in Rock Creek Park in d C. And there was
(49:43):
a little story there about after she died in her
diary and I did you know, at the time, I
just kind of blown through the book. An interesting story,
but I was more focused on Watergate and some of
the other stuff. And then you go back and you
actually focus on it, and there's a story about how
this woman who at an affair with JFK lived behind
Ben Bradley's home in Georgetown, and Ben Bradley and his
(50:07):
wife were very good friends of the Kennedys. Before and
after he was elected president, spent a lot of time
with him. But then after this woman is killed, this
guy Angleton, who was high up in the CIA, is
like behind their house trying to break into this guest
house to find this diary. I mean, just it's all
(50:27):
so spider webby and connected. And then the story about
how she was killed. You know, there was a guy
that was charged with that that that was acquitted. He
didn't do it, and so there's no one knows who
killed her. And she was close to Kennedy and having
this crazy affair with him while he was in the
White House. So you know, just an example of it.
(50:48):
There there's always something in this in this story.
Speaker 4 (50:51):
Yeah, and you know that's that's one of the reasons,
you know, I was encouraged for years to write a
book and put down Alma research in a book, and
and you know there's thousands and thousands of books out
there on the assassination, and my book, I wanted to
write the book for the everyday person that I don't
know a whole lot about the assassinate. The assassination maybe
(51:13):
you know, know the official story, but I wanted to
write something that the everyday Joe could pick up and
learn some things about the assassination that our history books
didn't tell us. And so that was my whole purpose
of writing the book. And I don't go into these
you know, rabbit holes about the medical evidence and all that, which,
(51:34):
oh my gosh, you could write numerous books just about
that alone. But I try to touch on a little
bit of everything in my book. And and and I've
gotten so many positive comments and emails and you know
about you know, how the books has changed their life
and how they didn't know this happened, and that happened,
(51:56):
and you know so many things. You know, it's like
Operation Northwoods and things like that that that the American
public don't know about that that went on. You know,
it's fascinating. So that was that was the purpose of
of me writing the book. You know, I never and
you know, my wife one day that to me, you
think will ever be out of red with the book,
(52:16):
and I'm like, no, that was I.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
Just I just literally order to copy of your book
while we while you were saying that.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
So, I mean that was my purpose was not to
ever make money off the book, you know, And it
was it was just to get you know, a story
out there to the every day Joe that can UH
pick it up, Uh, read read about it and say,
oh my gosh, I didn't know this happened.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
I didn't.
Speaker 4 (52:38):
And you know, and that it's all out there in
black and white. I mean, I spent, oh my gosh,
I can't tell you how many hours I've spent at
the National or at the Dallas Municipal Archives and at
the police station, and and just going through you know,
there would be times I'd get kicked out of there
just because they were closing. Get out of here, you know,
(52:59):
and and just going through file after file after file,
and and so there's a lot of truth out there.
It's buried. You've got to dig for a lot of it.
But but a lot of the a lot of the
truth out there that that a lot of people say,
uh are just spewing from conspiracy nuts. It's out there
in black and white. And like I said, it's just
(53:19):
like a giant puzzle, and it's putting the puzzle together
and it's not easy.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
You got to do it in small sections and small
portions to get the truth, like like I said, the
Grassy No shooter, and and it's matching up witness statements.
Well this match is this and this match is this,
you know, and then after a while it kind of
paints a picture, you know for you.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Uh you you brought off wrathfully.
Speaker 4 (53:43):
On yatesm before I know, we're run out of time
before we go. That's one of the saddest stories. I mean,
obviously the assassination of President Kennedy and how that it
changed the world. And and I talk about that in
the book. A lot most people have no ideal how
the world changed that day. Uh we we we didn't
just Look who's one president that day?
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Right there?
Speaker 4 (54:04):
We lost tens of thousands of Americans. Maybe not that day,
but because Kennedy was killed, Vietnam happened. And if Kennedy
had lived, there had been no Vietnam, all right. And
I tell people, you know, if you don't think the
assassination affected your life, do you know anyone that who
(54:27):
was affected by Vietnam? Do you have a brother and
aunt and uncle, a you know, a relative that was killed?
Look how Vietnam changed us, changed our country? All right?
That all happened because of November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
All Right.
Speaker 4 (54:47):
Kennedy was clearly not he was clearly going to pull
us out of Vietnam. That there's a documented proof of that, Okay,
But after he died, Johnson the body wasn't even hold yet.
Johnson totally reversed Kennedy's policies on Vietnam and we went
(55:07):
full fled straight ahead. Now the reason for that, I
mean a lot of Johnson's best friends were weapons manufacturers
in and around Texas, all right, and uh, a lot
of them were going broke at the time. A lot
of people don't know that, uh, And they made a
lot of money off of Vietnam. And so I'm not
(55:28):
laying the assassination and went to Johnson's fee. There is
there is some stuff there to make you think that
Johnson knew something was in the works. I mean, you
can whether you you know, people believe the Madeline Brown story,
which you know, she claims she was told, you know,
the assassination was going to happen, you know, the night
before and all that, which I'm not sure I buy that.
(55:50):
I have met miss Brown and talked to her on
numerous occasions. But anyway, you know, the world changed that day,
and stories like Ralph leon Yate don't get talked about.
And this is a guy who was a refrigeration repair
man who was just out doing his job picked up
picked up this hitchhiker on Wednesday, November twenty and two
(56:11):
days for the assassination who he claims was Lee Harvey
Oswalal And you know this guy knows, you know. He
starts talking to Yates about you know, you think the
president can be shot, you think it can be done
from a high power building.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
He looked like Oswald.
Speaker 4 (56:28):
It looked just like Oswald.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
It's crazy.
Speaker 4 (56:31):
He dropped him off at the corner of Elm in Houston,
where's exactly where the book depositoria is. And you know,
Yates goes back and he tells his coworkers about it.
This is two days before the assassination. He tells his
wife Dorothy. He tells his wife Dorothy, which I got
to interview her. He tells his wife Dorothy about it.
You know what they do to him, They they literally
(56:51):
the FBI puts this man in a mental institution for
the rest of his life. It destroyed He had five
kids his whole life because he came forward and told
his story and look it up rough leonyh is one
of the saddest stories that come out of the whole
Kennedy assassination. Other than the assassination itself.
Speaker 2 (57:14):
Well, it's just it's just crazy that a lot of this,
I mean, these are folks he talked to before the assassination. Right,
If it was just his wife would be one thing,
but there were co workers, and it's just too much,
too many coincidences. And then for every and it's obviously
a tragedy what happened with him, but for every one
of these, roughly on Yates's story stories, you have like
(57:36):
Roger Craig, and you have Fritzker, and you have de
morn Shield and you have it's just insane. But John,
I know we are pretty much out of time. I
want to thank you for coming on. Hopefully you can
come out again and we can maybe focused on another
part of this, because this is a I think this
is a very very important discussion we're having and everyone
should really exactly as you said, realize what was law
(58:00):
on that day and what what happened. But I'd love
you to talk for a minute about where people can
get your book and your podcast so that all our
listeners can can buy the book and subscribe to your podcast.
Speaker 4 (58:11):
Yeah, my podcast I'm recording actually today or later today
episode one eleven. So I've I'm up to one hundred
and eleven episodes. Uh, you know touch on the assassinate. Well,
just talk about like I said, uh, like like I
wrote the book, I wanted people, ordinary people to be
able to to learn some things about the assassination that
(58:35):
that our government and our history books didn't tell us.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (58:39):
My book can be found on Amazon it could you know?
Speaker 2 (58:42):
You can get it.
Speaker 4 (58:43):
Also on my website. Uh that's www. H End of
Innocence JFK dot com. The sits down at the moment
because I'm doing some maintenance on it. Uh, or you
can email me. I'm I've been sending out signed copies
of my book uh uh recently for you can get
the hardcover for sixty dollars, uh the soft cover for forty,
(59:05):
and I'll mail it to you. Uh so sign autograph copy,
but just email me at End of Innocence JFK at
gmail dot com and I'd be glad to get you
one in the mail and we can go from there.
But enjoyed being on with you guys a day, and
call me anytime. I'd love to be back home with
(59:26):
you anytime.
Speaker 2 (59:28):
All right, Thanks, so much. John. We appreciate your time.
Speaker 4 (59:30):
Thank you, guys, appreciate you well.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
Buddy, there you have it.
Speaker 3 (59:33):
I mean, I there was just not much to be
said there. Every time mister Young opened his mouth, you know, new,
at least for me, you know, new interesting things came out.
I mean, this idea of there being two Oz Walt's.
Speaker 2 (59:46):
And one of them being Mike Ditka, one of them
being Mike Ditka. Who again.
Speaker 3 (59:50):
I mean, if you're looking to get somebody killed, and
your choices between hiring Lee I r v Oswalter Mike Didke,
you're going gall again.
Speaker 2 (59:57):
Not to smirch mister Didcom. I'm sure you wouldn't want
to be involved, but he's necessarily sixties Mike Ditka. I mean,
this is this is a different guy. This isn't the
guy who's is He's alive, right, yeah, as far as
I'm sure he is in some capacity.
Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
You're not going to kill Mike Didko.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
But he's very angry. He had like seven heart attacks
in the eighties and he still coached a championship team.
Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
That's what motivated him.
Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
So, buddy, I mean, you know, it's uh, it was
good stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
I'm looking forward to having mister young back on try
to close the loop on some of these things. Why
is there a thirty thirty showcasing on some other building?
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Well, you know what, I not to say that the
pigeon dropped it.
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
The pigeons left the book depository, clearly taking the clamping
a thirty hot or thirty thirty showcasing and carry it
to a different building, thereby screwing up the whole investigation.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
So I just real quick, My thing about that is,
I don't I don't necessarily buy that there were people
in these other buildings because I think someone would have
seen them, and I don't know. I haven't heard that
anyone saw them. But and I also think, you know,
Oswald most likely fired a shot, right, I mean he
was he was working in that building. But you know,
(01:01:09):
the question about or somebody fired it's stuff to even say, right,
because no one saw Oswald coming down those stairs, and
they're like those women were on those stairs. So how
do you figure that out? And if somebody else did it,
how did he get out of the building he or
she or she? I just don't know. I've got to
go lay down, Brett overwhel you.
Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
You go lay down and get yourself ready, because we
got to come back here and do this again. And
you know in one week's time, which we will, we will,
We'll do it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
We mister Young.
Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Maybe back, maybe not, maybe it's back to our usual shenanigans,
but in any case, we'll see you right back here
next week.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Well I be frequently.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
This has been IP frequently, once again clearing a forest
of lies with the machete of truth.
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
You're welcome.
In these bleak days, humanity is at a breaking point.
Economies are tanking, the woke mob is canceling everything, and
the little guy who's just trying to run a small
business is getting screwed from both ends. But not all
is lost. Amidst the chaos, two men offer up their
(00:26):
voices in the darkness, dropping two thousand pounds laser guided
truth bombs on today's lunacy, introducing the Sirens of Sanity,
David Pridham and l Bradley Sheaf.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
The Well, there it is, Brad. We didn't start the fire,
Billy Joel, who by the way, is now off the tour.
He's got some condition but hopefully he'll be back soon.
And today we're going to talk to an expert, Brad,
(01:05):
in the field of JFK assassinations and assassination research and review,
who also I believe, was in the Air Force, served
with you a while back, and maybe the Mexican American
War or sometime again, much older than I am, so
I don't know, but in any event, very exciting, very
(01:28):
exciting stuff and I can't wait to get to it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to it as well. And well,
I don't believe that mister Young started the fire. He's
certainly stoking it with his new book, and so let's
see what he has to say.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
David purdhaman Brad Sheief back here with you on the
iHeartRadio podcast network today we have a guest. As you know,
Brad and I are delving into the the JFK conspiracy
and the death of present and Kennedy, and we have vowed,
(02:02):
we have vowed to solve this thing before Brad leaves
for Central America next week, right brat wow, or at
least explore it to some extent, right either way. And
so in that regard, we've got John Young joining us
here today. John is a renowned author and podcaster on
(02:23):
the subject of all things JFK. His book, The End
of Innocence The Assassination of John F. Kennedy is a
great read. We highly recommend it. In addition, he has
a weekly podcast which I have started listening to in
the past few months on the JFK assassination. Both are
very approachable and allow for folks who are just getting
(02:45):
into it to understand what's going on. Both you know,
what's gone on historically regarding JFK and what is happening
today because there's a lot happening today with the Trump
administration and releasing some of these some of these files.
So John, welcome to the Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate appreciate you having.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Me on absolutely so. So can you tell us a
little bit about your your background. You're from You're from Texas.
Our company is based in in Dallas and uh so
we've been connected to Texas for almost twenty years now.
But could you tell us a little bit about your
your background and your story.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I'm actually from Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I've spent a lot a lot of time in Dallas,
so it's it's kind of my second home. But I'm
actually born and raised in the little town outside of
Fort Smith called Alma, Arkansas. And uh I've been studying
the assassination and researching for going on thirty six years now.
(03:47):
To be honest, I got involved. As strange as it sounds,
my grandfather when I was young, used to talk to
me about President Kennedy and just in I started in mechol.
It literally started with a book report. You know, back
then we did book reports. I don't know if the
kids do that nowadays. But you know, I did a
(04:08):
book report on the assassination, and uh, I was assigned
assigned this book report, and I was fascinated. I started digging,
digging through encyclopedias, you know, back then, that's what we
did as a reference. We didn't have the Internet, and
so just started digging through encyclopedias, reading everything I could
get my hands on for this book report. And it
(04:29):
literally started that way, and I got mesmerized and just
fascinated with the assassination. And and I tell people all
the time, UH, as a you know, sixth seventh grader. Uh,
while some of my friends were caring around comic books
and stuff like that, I was caring around, you know,
copies of six Seconds in Dallas by Josiah Thompson and
(04:53):
other books on the assassination. And you know, kids thought
I was kind of weird. And so I just become
obsessed with it at an early age and and stayed
that way through. I joined the Air Force in nineteen
eighty seven and I was stationed in Wichitaft Falls, Texas,
and I was still mas Brown's with the assassination, studying
(05:16):
it every you know, every free every free moment I
got and one of my heroes in the research community
was Penn Jones Junior. And I had a week in
leave and like I said, I stationed in Wichitaft Falls.
I had a week in leave and I said to myself,
I'm going to go track Ben Jones Junior down. And uh,
(05:38):
it's kind of gutsy on my part, but I take
off driving to Watchahachie, Texas. Uh he lived in He
lived actually in Boys, Texas, on a little farm which
is about four miles east of Watchahatchie. And so I
just I go into Watchahatchie stop at a little store, honestly,
(05:59):
and I'm on, these people are gonna think I'm crazy.
But I go in and I say this, any of
you happen to know where Penn Jones Junior lives? And
They're like, oh, yeah, yeah, you know, he lives down
on the farm. We see him all the time.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
One older gentleman actually drew me a little map on
a piece of paper and told me how to get
to his farm. So lo and behold here I am.
I mean, I am still wet behind the ears, twenty
years old. I drive to be Jones Junior's farm in Boys, Texas,
and I can still remember pulling up the driveway. My
(06:35):
knees were knocking because I was a nervous wreck. This
was a hero of mine for years. And I thought,
you know, I don't know if I'm want to pull
up here and he's gonna pull out a shotgun to
shoot me, you know what's going to happen. But I
knocked on the door.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
He come to the door.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
His wife, Olane was there, but he knocked on the door.
I introduced myself, and I'm on you that that moment
started a friendship that would last until he died, you know,
in ninety seven. And and he he took me in
that day and I spent four or five hours with
(07:14):
him at his ranch, and he just I mean, he
opened up his research material was showing me. I mean,
he was going to million miles an hour. His house
was like a shrine to the late President Kennedy. He
even had a replica rocking chair of Kennedy in his
office and pictures of Kennedy everywhere. Videotapes, you know, back
(07:36):
then everybody had the VHS. Videotapes, just wall to wall
videotapes documented everything. It was. It was a massive amount
of research material that he had accumulated over you know,
thirty five years since the since the assassination happened. And
that day really started my researching journey because over over
(08:00):
the next you know, uh, eight nine years up until
Pen passed away, you know, he become more than a mentor.
He become a really good friend. And and I looked
at him sort of a as a grandfather figure. He
he actually reminded me a lot of my grandfather, dressed
like him and kind of looked like him. And and
(08:21):
so my grandfather was someone that I just adored and
and only got to be with him a short nine
years before he passed.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
But uh, so.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
That that's really started my research journey in and Pen
opened doors for me that I could not have opened
myself with witnesses, with with other researchers. I actually in
the early nineties I got to meet Jim Mars, Jack White,
Robert Groden, Larry Harris, the very well known researchers that
(08:56):
that I admired, uh and actually joined a research group
al Dallas that that Jim had put together. I didn't
even know what existed, but Jim had put together this
little research group. We kind of met in secret so
to speak. And so you know, we would we would
meet on weekends and you know, I got to interview
(09:18):
dozens and dozens of witnesses, got to interview Secret Service agents,
got to sit down and have dinner with Marina Oswall
one night at her home, and that just it just
really opened doors for me that, like I said, I
wouldn't been able to open myself. And and Pen really
started that for me. And I dedicate my book in
(09:41):
front of my book, there's a dedication to de Penn
Jones Junior, because he's the one that really started kind
of kept that fire burning in me and pushed me
to to you know, open doors and and you know,
go out on a limb sometimes and go with my gun,
and go with my heart and and do take no
for an answer. And so anyway, I really owe a
(10:04):
tremendous amount to him. And just over the years, you know, uh,
Pen passed away in ninety seven, and I was, I
was there right before he died, and and uh, and
I just remember the last thing he said to me was,
you know, don't don't let them stop your research. Don't
let them, you know, slow you down. Just keep that
(10:25):
fire burning inside you to find out what happened, and
he gave me, I know, most of his research materials
at Baylor University and they've got it. It's all online
now you can find it. But I've got some very
very valuable things to me that he gave me over
the years, all kinds of handwritten notes and and some
research material and obviously copies of his book and sign
(10:49):
book and so things that I cherish.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And uh, so, well, that's grabbing. That's a great uh,
I mean, that's a great background. That's that's uh what
plus thirty plus years of research? What what was So
you had dinner with Marina Oswald? What was what was
what was her story? I know early on she was
one of the people that helped seal Oswalt's fate in
(11:13):
the mind of some in terms of his guilt. But
was she what what? What was she like to have
dinner with? What did she say about the assassination and
his guilt and uh, generally what was her perspective on
the assassination.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
At the time, At the time I met with her
and had dinner and and honestly did Jim Mars arranged it,
and so there were several of us researchers there. Her husband,
kennth Border was there and so at the time we
we had dinner with her. She she had totally flipped somewhat,
(11:50):
you know, she'd said early early on. Now keep in mind,
and a lot of people don't know this, right after
the assassination, they they literally took her and I wouldn't
say held her hostage, but they put her up in
the Six Flags in which was a motel hotel right
across the streets from six Flags theem Park.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And she was six Flags of Texas, Brad you know.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
That, Yeah, yeah, And she was literally held up there,
you know, with Secret Service agents FBI c I A
for for a week, uh and just questions berated.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
They you know, they threatened her with deportation back to Russia.
So she basically said what they wanted her to say. Uh,
and you know, they when when she was ready to
say what they wanted her to say, they you know,
they prenched her out in front of the cameras and
and she she basically went on national television and said, yeah,
that my husband was guilty and and all this. But
(12:53):
at the time, at the time I'd met with her
and had dinner with her, that that they totally flipped,
and she proclaimed his innocence. She even denied the backyard photos.
You know, the famous backyard photos that really convicted Lee
(13:13):
Oswell in the minds of the American public. That you know,
the backyard photos were published on the cover of Life magazine,
and that really convicted him in a lot of people's minds.
But you know, she told, she told us, and she
told many other researchers. Is too that day when she
took the photos, she took the photos of him standing
(13:36):
in the alley, okay, And the photos you see are
him standing at kind of the bottom of the stairwell,
are kind of beside the stairwell, And she said, that
is totally not where the pictures were taken. She said
they were taken in front of a little fence leading
(13:57):
into the alley. And that house on Neely Street in
Dallas is still there, and I've been there many, many times.
And anyway, I actually did a video call with her
one time while I was there and was saying, Okay,
this is where you say the photos are, Yes, this
is where the photos were taken, and she took she said,
(14:18):
I took one photo, not not numerous photos. I took
one of him standing in a totally different spot. And
then the backyard photos that you know, came out and
got published. So she even denied that, but.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
She you know that that's interesting the photos. Because one
of the things I did and explaining this to Brad,
because Brad came to town a while back and we
sat down and watched the new Oliver Stone and it's
that new anymore, but the Oliver's Stone documentary he put out,
uh re visited, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and so and
(14:51):
Brad and Brad was just like, I can't be can't
believe any of you know, this happened. And it's like
there are so many It's the one thing, right, the
JFK assassination in the history of this country where there
are so many threads that are loose that if you
start pulling on them, right like for example, the photos. Yeah,
I found out a couple of weeks ago from a
(15:12):
friend that there was a in the Dallas police custody.
They found some cutout of the photo and then there
was a Dallas policeman who may have posed. It's the
craziest thing, and it is all over the place in
this JFK thing from the grassy Knoll, to the forensics,
to the you know, the woman on the stairs, to
(15:34):
the the the autopsy, to the I mean, you can
come up with you know how many crazy deaths are
associated with with witnesses and folks who are somehow involved
in this in this thing. And it's just, you know,
when Brad and I started talking about it, you get
two hours into it and there are still a bunch
(15:56):
of things we didn't even we didn't even get to.
So let me ask you this, if if if I
were someone who was a skeptic but didn't know much
about it, and you know, you had to make three
points as to why this was a conspiracy or why
Oswald didn't do it, or just the three most salient
(16:20):
points that could could potentially sway someone who may be
a doubt or it doesn't know much about the assassination.
What what three points? Because you've got this terrific background
with this assassination, what what what three points would you
would you lean on?
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Number one? I would look at what the witnesses say.
All right, uh, look at where the witnesses place Lee
Harvey Oswall at the time of the shooting. Okay, don't
don't go off of what the what the warm report says,
dig into it. It's really readily available.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Now.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Uh, there are numerous witnesses that that put him on
the first or second floor in the lunch room that
as late as twelve twenty five, all right, And then
there's other witnesses that put him in the lunch room
buying a colt ninety seconds after the assassination. Okay, And
(17:20):
you'd say, well, you know, it's not that hard to
get up five flights of stairs and thirty four minutes.
One thing you got to understand, And I tell people
this all the time. Kennedy's a motorcade was set to
arrive in Deeley Plaza at twelve twenty five. That his
schedule was published. It was in the newspapers, and they
(17:42):
were set to arrive into the plaza at twelve twenty five.
That's when everybody thought Kendy's motorcade was going to arrive
in that area. It was late because he took a
little extra time at love Field to shake hands and
you know, greet the well wishers and stuff like that.
(18:03):
So the motorcade was running about five minutes behind. And
that's a huge deal anyone. And keep in mind there
were witnesses, numerous witnesses that saw two people in the
sixth floor window, in various windows in the sixth floor
(18:23):
from twelve fifteen up until the assassination. All Right, Lee
Harvey Oswall was we know one hundred percent by witness
statements in the lunch room area as late as twelve
twenty five. Okay, if I'm on Lee Harvey Oswall and
I'm planning to shoot John F. Kennedy, I am in
(18:46):
that window at twelve twenty five for sure, because that's
that's the moment I thought the motor Kaid was coming through. Okay,
I'm I'm set, I'm positioned, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
All right.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
He was in the lunchroom eating his lunch, drinking a coke.
There were witnesses that put other people in that window.
Several witnesses saw a ify set man in.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
A brown coat.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
He mentioned a lot by several witnesses with horn room glasses,
and he was seen in the window. There was several
people that saw two people in the window leading up
to the assassination. I'm talking minutes before the assassination. So
the warn report wants us to believe that Lee Harvey
Oswall at twelve twenty six. You know, went up five
(19:36):
flights of stairs across across the crowded room that back
back when that happened, the sixth floor was covered in boxes.
It was a it was a warehouse for school books.
It was a maze up there. It wasn't I mean,
it would take you a good thirty forty five seconds
to get from one side of the room to the other.
(19:56):
And the stairwell was on the opposite side of the room.
As the Southeast want to work here, the shooting occurred,
and they want they want us to believe that he
jotted up there five flights of stairs, Tom cool and collective,
three shots at the president.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Hm.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
And you know, wpped it wipped the gun clean of
fingerprints because the prints were not found except for a
mysterious pomp print. And I can talk about that too, uh.
And then hit the gun. Went back down the stairs
ninety seconds after the shooting. And by the way, he
went back down those stairs past several women who did
(20:35):
not see him, did not hear him.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
And and was cool, calm and collective back in the
lunch room. That was Victoria Adams, right, Victoria Adams in
Sandra Stiles and Officer Maryon Baker rushed into depository ninety
seconds after the shooting. It's it's clearly it's it's been
studied and recreated. Ninety seconds after the shooting, Officer Maryon
(20:58):
Baker in Count Oswald in the untrim drinking a coke,
all right, Tom cole collective, not our bareath not you know,
not sweating, you know. And he was with Roy Truley,
who was the superintendent of the depository, you know. And
so it's just to me, look at look at some
(21:20):
of the witness statements where Oswald was before the shooting,
leading up to the shooting, and then moments after the shooting,
all right, and then his actions after the shooting. What
does he do? I mean, this is this is the
supposed assassin of the president, all right? Does does he
(21:40):
escape in a mad rush? He walks out the front door, calmly,
seen by seen by numerous witnesses, and goes and catches
a bus. He first he first tries to flag down
a cab and get this, he flags down a cab.
The cab up, and a woman comes up, A pregnant
(22:02):
woman comes up, and I've spoken to her, and he
gives his cab up to her. This is true story.
He gives his cab up to this lady. I mean,
this is the you know, accused assassin of the president
trying to escape the area, and he gives his cab
up to a to a woman. I mean, come on, uh,
(22:24):
all right, And so he ends up catching a bus.
The bus that he that he hops on is heading
right back into Dealey Plaza, all right. The bus gets
caught up in all kinds of traffic. He jumps off
the bus and then goes to the Greyhound bus station
and tries to catch another cab, and he eventually does
and it takes him to his rooming house. And so
(22:47):
that would be one thing I would I would look
at where he was moments before the shooting and moments
after the shooting, and I would say that's one thing
that that proves his innocence. So if you really dig
into it and study it, that alone proves his innocence.
Number Two, I would look at witness statements and what
(23:08):
they saw and hearred around the Grassy No area. I've
become very very good friends, very close with Ed Hoffman
and his wife Rosie h And I don't know if
a lot of your listeners know who Ed Hoffman was.
But Ed was a deaf mute and he witnessed the
assassination and he he had pulled his car. He had
(23:33):
actually left work, was on his way to a dentist appointment,
and he pulled his car off the side of Stemmings Freeway.
He didn't want to get caught up in traffic, but
he just wanted to get a glimpse of the president
as he kind of drove by. He knew the route.
He knew that Kennedy was going to be hopping on
Stemmins Freeway, so he pulled his car off the side
(23:54):
of the Stemmings Freeway there but where he was sanding,
he had a clear view of the picket fence area
where a lot of people claim shots came from a
lot of people and uh, Ed and Ed's been on
many documentaries. Ed said he saw a shooter behind the
(24:14):
picket fence. He saw two men. One was dressed in
uh like a railroad outfit.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
The other was dressed as like a police officer. He
saw two men behind the picket fence. One of them
fired a shot. All right, Now, keep in mind he
was he was a deaf mute, so he had a
hard time communicating with people.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
All right.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
He he saw the shooting, He saw one guy shoot,
tossed the rifle to another guy. The guy in the
police uniform or what he what he described as a
police uniform, fired fired shots. Uh, hosted the rifle to
the other gentleman who was a railroad worker. He broke
the gun down, put it in a bag, and just
(25:00):
walked away. And they walked off in different directions.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
All right.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Numerous witnesses moments after the shooting, and there's all kinds
of pictures, videos, rushed that Grassy Know area, okay, and
many of them were being chewed away and told to
get out of the area by Secret Service agents, people
that were flashing Secret Service credentials on the Grassy Know.
(25:26):
And this is readily available. Anybody can look this up.
But guess what, there were no Secret Service agents at
that time on the Grassy Know or even in Dealey Plaza.
They were all with the motor cake.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
That's in the Warren report, right that fact.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Yeah, yeah, I mean who were these people, I mean,
who were these people impersonating Secret Service agents? And why
were they so? I mean, Dallas police officers ran into
some of these guys that produced secret Service credentials and
told them to get out of that area. They did
not want anyone in that area behind the picket fans
(26:01):
along the grass.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You know, well, you know what, you know what I
think is interesting and Brad, this is rid of your
your your neck of the woods. But so Ed Hoffman.
I saw him on the documentary The Men who Killed Kennedy,
and he is he You know, there are a lot
of the there are folks who raise issues with his story.
(26:22):
But you also have there was a documentary where they
had some of the railroad men and I forget maybe
the guy who did Last Second in Dallas who filmed them,
but joe Jo Thompson, Josiah Thompson, where the railroad men
are talking about what they saw behind the fence, and
then you know, they found cigarette butts and they saw
(26:44):
puff of smoke. And then the guy who was working
the in the railroad yard who I don't I don't
remember his name, Lee Bower, Lee b Ours, Lee Bars.
He also he testified in front of the Warren Commission
and he testified that there was a lot of strange
stuff happening right around that fence too. So it's not
just Hoffman. And then Bowers I think died in a
(27:04):
like a one. He's one of the many people that
died in some like one car car accident in the
middle of a country road in Texas.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Oh there's yeah, yeah, pen pen was Jones Jr. Was
you know, Pan really got off on the mysterious Dess
and he dug deep, deep, deep deep into that. And
Lee Bowers was one of the first ones that he
really move into.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
But you know, you know, I made it, I made
and I made a list. So Brad, you're gonna love this.
So this is just a partial list of these these
strange deaths. Like you've got Grant Stockdale, who's a friend
of JFK, throws himself out of a window a couple
of days after the assassination. You know, Gary Underhill, Brad,
we've talked about before. Mary Pinschow Meyers, the lover of JFK,
(27:47):
was killed in Rock Creek Park in d c. Winston Scott,
the CIA station chief Dorothy Killgowan, who was on to
tell the truth right, who was investigating this thing. She
was a famous a famous journalist. David Ferry was the
guy played by Joe Peshi and the JFK thing, Roger
(28:07):
Craig who was a sheriff, and then William Bruce Pritzker,
who was connected to the autopsy. I mean, and I
want to get Brad stick on this too, because these
are all people who, like in the sixties, most cases
in the early sixties contemporaneous with this assassination or the
subsequent investigations, killed themselves or died in very mysterious ways.
(28:27):
And that doesn't even mention that George de Mornshield who
was being set up to be interviewed by the House
Committee in the seventies and the guy was like knocking
on the door and he found they found him dead.
So you know, at some point, and Brad want to
get your thoughts on this, what do you? What do you?
There are a lot of strange debts here.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Well, John, to kind of go back to the opening
of the show where David was introducing us, You've got
kind of both sides of the JFK coin here. It's
kind of generally in America, right, So David it is
an enthusiast, he likes this stuff, he's into it, and
I was sort of like just the average American of
(29:07):
my age, right, So Dave and I are both in
our mid fifties, So obviously I'm very aware of the jail.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You're a little you're a little to be honest, and
we want to tell John the truth. You're a bit
older than me, doesn't matter how.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
You're David looks older, but I am older and so
they so, you know, I mean, I'm obviously aware of
the assassination. I'm aware that there's, you know, all of
this sort of mystery around it, but never paid any
attention to it until David was kind of introducing me
to it. Right, So as for me, and it's it's
(29:39):
very it's fascinating to listen to you guys talk about
it and all of the you know, just kind of
unexplainable amount of weirdness for lack of a better term,
that is around this assassination. And you know, so, as
David mentioned my background, I was in the military, and
(30:01):
then I was an FBI agent, and then I got
out of the government. Dave and I met and we
went into business together.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
But for me, there's just one.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Kind of part of the story, I guess or supposed
fact that just doesn't work, and that is the the
you know, the quote unquote magic bullet, and so we
can come back to that. But I guess what I
want to having listened to all of this, is the
theory thean then that Oswald is uninvolved in the assassination
(30:33):
entirely other than as a patsy. Right, So Oswald is
never on the sixth floor. It's someone else entirely, And
you know, they take the shots from the sixth floor,
and then there's you know, some other member of the
conspiracy that's behind the picket fence and they take at
least one shot from there. That's that's kind of your
(30:57):
view of it is that, you know, so it's not
like oz One was either Obviously you don't believe that
he was the only shooter, but he wasn't even one
of the shooters. He's just just kind of hang around
the book depository doing his job on the day that
JFK Is killed and kind of oblivious to what's going
(31:17):
on around him, and that it's others who are doing
all of the shooting.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
You know, That's one of the things that funted me
for years is what was his role? And I'm going
to be honest with you, after thirty six years of research,
I'm not sure what his role was that day. He
had a role to play. Now, some people, some researchers,
believe he was one of the shooters. Some researchers believe
(31:46):
he was possibly there to prevent the assassination. He had
a role to play that day. I don't know what
his role was. And I've been on both sides of
the fence with this. As far as I never I
have never thought, after all the witnesses I've spoken with,
looked them in the eye, you know, these are these
(32:08):
are not people that I was paying money to to
sit down and you know, give me their story. None
of these people, you know, got rich off of sitting
down and talking to a lot of us researchers, but
looking them in the eye, meeting them, shaking their hand,
being in their homes after all that, I do not
believe that Lee Harvey All's off iredy shot that day.
(32:28):
But I do not, even to this day, I do
not know what his role was.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Well, yeah, it.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Didn't sound like he could have been based on what
you were talking about before with the Starowell and kind
of where he was before and after that, he could
have been on the sixth floor.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
And that's fine.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
I mean again, I'm not I'm not in any way,
shape or form an expert. I'm just kind of learning
as we go along here. But who so there in
order for him not to have been on the sixth floor?
I mean, I don't think there's any debate that somebody
was right from that floor, right, Okay, So how does
that person get in and out of the depository without
(33:11):
somebody who works there, you know, especially if it was
kind of the rabbit warren as you describe it, seeing
them and there being at least one witness who says, well, out,
I don't know who this guy was, but there was
somebody that we don't recognize or that you know, we
hadn't seen before in the building today, and you know
we saw him at this point or that point. So
I mean, whoever this person was, who was the sixth
(33:34):
floor shooter somehow gets in and out of that building unobserved?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Right? I mean is that kind of the theory right exactly?
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Yeah? And no, you know it's a good point there.
There's not been anyone that has come out that we
know of that has said, yeah, there was a strange
gentleman you know in the building.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Hey, John, real quick wouldn't they have to get down
the same stairs though, So all the people that were
talking about that Oswald didn't pass. Whoever this was, would
have to go down that same there's only one way
up and down right or the elevator.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
But yes, yeah, they would have to go down the
same stairs. But there are witnesses that place the Hivy
set man that I talked about earlier in the brown coat,
there are some witnesses that they saw him steal in
the window as late as thirty seconds after the shooting,
(34:30):
all right, kind of looking out the window as to,
you know, admire what had just happened. So where did
that gentleman go. I don't know who that gentleman was.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I don't know what was there a moment so maryon Baker,
the police officer was in the saws wall drinking the
coke within like was that a couple of minutes of
the assassination.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Or ninety seconds after ninety seconds.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And then he goes to the stairs and goes up
the stairs. So and then did he from that point?
Was the building secure or were there points where there
were lapses in? Oh?
Speaker 4 (35:06):
No, the building the building wasn't secured until at least
fifteen minutes after the assassination. It maybe longer, reports say
twelve forty five. But I've spoken to witnesses that say
they were in and out of that building as late
as one o'clock.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
So did Baker leave the building after he I guess
he would ascended and.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Then did they actually were heading to the roof. Baker
thought stots came from the roof, and so Baker and
Roy truly, and the elevator was not working that day.
By the way, they had an old, old grain elevator
in the depository. The elevator was not working that day.
It was down, so it wasn't working that day. So
(35:49):
that's why, you know, the stairs come into play to
get up and down those floors. There was one stairwell,
and so Baker, Officer Baker, and Roy Truly, the superintendent,
they were actually making their way to the roof because
that's where Baker thought shots came from. He saw pigeons.
Uh when when the shots fired, he saw pigeons fly
(36:14):
off the roof. That that caught his attention. So he immediately,
I mean Maker immediately, uh you know, threw down his
motorcycle and and went into the book depository and they
come up to Roy Truly who was the superintendent of
the building. And then you know, they start going floor
to floor and they're you know, they're searching for you know,
(36:35):
floor by floor, making their way to the roof. Uh
and they did. They they actually got up there and
searched the roof area. But uh so, yeah, it's where
where did the guy go that? What that was the shooter?
H I don't know that. Nobody knows if they know that,
they're you're not talking.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Did there have to be a shooter from the building.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
The blissed said. I've studied there had to be at
least one shot from there. Now I believe there were
shots from the dall text Building and possibly shots from
the Dallas County Records Building. A little known fact that
a lot of people don't believe is there was a
spent bullet thirty odd shell found on the top of
(37:24):
the County Records Building. And I forget the year, I
want to say, and this is easily looked up. Seventy
six or seventy seven. There was a air conditioned worker
up there working on an air condition because it was leaking,
and he found a bullet an old bullet casing underneath
(37:44):
the lip of this air conditioner on top of the
Dallas County Records Building, which is a place where I
believe at least one of the shots came from looking
at the trajectories. So and that's a little known fact
that a lot of people don't believe. But it's easily
you can easily look it up. So, you know, was
(38:05):
there a shooter up there? I mean there were there
were numerous witnesses that placed, you know, a shooter on
the grass.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
It just this thing is like a giant puzzle. It's
like a giant puzzle. And Pen always told me, you know,
he said, he said, imagine getting a ten thousand piece
chicksaw puzzle and throwing it on the table. That's what
this assassination is.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
With no corner pieces. There are no corner pieces.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
And it's just like but but if you if you
start putting pieces together, all right, things start making sense slightly.
Bowers that you mentioned him and edge him and hoffin
story matches up perfectly. They did not know each other.
They had no idea what the other one was saying.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
And by the way, Ed went to the FBI office
in Dallas right after the shooting and tried to tell
the FBI he saw what he had just witnessed. They
had a hard time communicating with him because he's death
and honestly, they didn't have anyone there who knew signed,
so they just basically told him to get lost. And
(39:15):
this is documented. Also. He went back the following Monday,
all right, the twenty fifth, he went back to that
same FBI office trying to tell his story once again,
and they basically ignored him.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
You know.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
So, but his story and other witness testimonies match up.
His story matches up with Lee Bollards. Like I said,
it's a puzzle. You start putting little pieces together and
you can't solve the whole thing in two weeks guys.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Sorry, living in a couple of days. Yeah, but when
you when.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
You start putting pieces together, things start making sense. I've
been on you know, I've been on a journey recently
that I never dreamed I would go on. And it
was the two Oswall theory. For years, research friends of mine,
(40:13):
Jim Mars, Jack White, Robert Roden, I mean, been and
others from very early on believed that there was a
second Oswald in and around Dallas leading up to the assassination,
and I'm gonna be honest. They would talk about it
and I would kind of tune them out because I
thought it was crazy and I thought it sounded, you know,
(40:34):
conspiracy nuts and you know. And one of the things
Ben told me, he said, someday, I want you to
really dive into this, and I want you to research
this and you will see what we're saying it's true.
So I took I took some time several years ago
and put all my other research aside, and I said,
(40:56):
I'm going to dive into this second Oswall theory. Uh
kind of well, is it that?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
And I don't mean to interrupt you, John, but isn't
this The one of the things Brad and I have
talked about before is that whole Ralph leon Yates thing
where he picked up a hitchhiker and the guy looked
just like Oswald and he went back and actually told
one of his co workers, yes, the the story before
the assassination took place of a guy with the curtain
(41:22):
rods and all this craziness and then the and tell
me if I'm wrong. But then the assassination took place,
and it looked just like the guy he had picked up,
but it couldn't have been Oswald because he was working
at the time.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Oh and listen, guys, there are so many I started
investigating this, and I mean, there's a documented proof of
a lot of these things that I'm saying. There were
so many signings of Oswall.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
There was.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
There was a gentleman. Oswall had been meeting with the
Texas Employment Commission. He met with with with them several times,
and he was interviewed by a lady there named lor
Cotrell three different times. So she had spent three to
(42:11):
four hours with Lee Oswall. One day October seventeenth, when
Oswald was working at the Texas school Book Depository. We
know this from his time card and his coworkers. A
gentleman come to the Texas Employment Commission, who Miss Katrell said,
looked strikingly, incredibly resembling Oswald, right, And he tried to
(42:36):
tell her that he was Lee Harvey Oswall, but she
knew he was not. She had met with Lee Oswall
numerous times. But this guy knew Oswald's story. He was
talking about being in Russia, he was talking about his
Russian wife, he was talking about his small child and
had another one on the way. He knew Oswell's story,
(42:57):
but Miss Cottrell said it was not Lee Harvey Oswall.
I'd met with him numerous times. I knew for a
fact it wasn't. But but this guy wanted her to
think that he was Lee Oswald for some reason. There's
so many occasions like that. On Saturday, November ninth, just
weeks before the assassination, a gentleman comes into the Lincoln
(43:19):
Mercury Lincoln Mercury Ley dealership in downtown Dallas, wanted to
test drive a car.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Lee Oswall never drove, couldn't drive. And Marina said that,
but that's on record too, But that's not the point here.
This guy wanted to test drive a car.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
The manager of the car lot went with him, all right,
And his name was Albert Bogart. And Albert Bougard actually wrote,
and I've seen this business card. I've seen pictures of it.
He actually wrote, uh, Lee Harvey Oswell on the back
of his business card because that's that was a name
he was given by this gentleman. And and this this gentleman, Uh,
(44:00):
they test drive a car together and he drives like
a like a freaking maniac. And mister Boguard, you know,
said he's driving you know, down Stemmens Freeway, you know,
seventy miles an hour, which no big deal nowadays, what
back then it was? But uh, you know, but he
told mister Bogard his name numerous times. Uh, this was
not Lee Harvey Olswall uh at the gun range. Uh
(44:23):
at the sports Drone Raffle range in Dallas, there were
several several times that a man passing himself off as
Lee Harvey Olswell to people telling them his name was
seen at the rifle range, uh, bleeding up to the assassination.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
And there was also in In if I remember correctly,
there was a phone conversation recorded between Hoover and President
Johnsones where they were talking about an impersonator in Mexico
City and someone who would approached the Russian cots that
(45:00):
a I'm not sure which consolate, but who was pretending
to be Oswald? And Brad If you look at the
picture of this guy striking, he looked like Mike did guy.
He didn't look at anything like Oswald. He looked like a mustache.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
And you know, you're right, I've always thought who does
that guy look like the fact Yeah, you're exactly right,
it did look like Nick. The fact that that they
they said that that was Lee Harvey Oswald was really
comical that he was a he was a heavy or
said Balding.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
You know, yeah, well well Brad, you can you can
listen to a conversation. Yeah, that's your check.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
But he would be a much better candidate for an assassination.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
He could get down these stars seconds. Yeah, but Brad,
there's actually a conversation between Johnson and Hoover were Hoover
is saying, look, we we have these recordings of of
this guy who claimed to be Oswald in Mexico City,
and it's clear he's saying he's telling Johnson, he's clear,
it's clearly not him. It's clearly different than the guy
we have in custody is before they killed, before Oswald
(46:04):
was killed. But it's and that's just the thing about
this whole story is that, you know, we didn't even
get into the Mexico City stuff, or the autopsy stuff
or the I mean, it's just there, they're so and
then and then you know, it doesn't even take into
account the whole story about how Oswald got to Russia
(46:27):
and then got back here, and and how he was
able to afford his lifestyle there and all that, and
there are just so many stories. And you know, you
look back at the other assassinations in American presidential history,
none of them, even Lincoln, none of them have these
all these threads. Even Lincoln, it's pretty clear who the
(46:48):
conspirators were, and even who they weren't. They pretty much
hung them all. And and you know, this thing, it's
just amazing how many different avenues there are two exploring.
Just when you think you've got the answers to one,
there's another, and then there's another, and then there's another.
(47:09):
And you know, John, interesting question for me is that
I know we're running out of time, is do you
think that these current disclosures that are coming out, and
maybe more modern technology and the like, do you think
there's any way we're gonna actually find out what happened here?
Speaker 4 (47:31):
I don't think so. Too much time has passed anything.
You know, people were so excited about the records being released, which,
by the way, Trump said that there would be no reactions. Well,
there are reactions. There's a lot of reactions, all right.
So everything's still not being told why you know, you
(47:52):
know Bradle was in the FBI. I mean, why, why
sixty two years after these asassination are things still being hidden.
It's ridiculous. We know every all files on nine to
eleven have been released, but yet we still don't know
everything there is to know about the Kennedy assassination. That
(48:13):
that that the government knew. But no, I think too
much time has passed. Too many witnesses have died. Wait,
I mean most witnesses have died. Uh. If you if
you don't have them on record, you have no idea
what what they really said, which I'm glad I've got
dozens and dozens on record. But there's no smoking gun
in these files.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
I do not.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
Believe that that. And the files are incredibly heedious to
go through. There's no search engine on the on the
National ar Cause website, there never has been. Uh, the
files are not you know, you can't go on there
and search Lee Harvey Oswell on all the files or
lateon Oswole comes up. I mean, and you have to
match up the the unredacted version with the redacted version
(48:55):
and see and it's just it's such a tedious process.
And I've been I've been doing it. You know, every
spare second I get. But I do not believe that
there's some things that's come out. Uh, there's some stuff
about James Angleton, who was the counterintelligence chief of Let's Ah,
who clearly had a relationship with Oswald, who clearly there's
(49:20):
something there with Angleton.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
And you know what's amazing about that, and that I
found out I was I read Ben Bradley's biography a
few years ago, and I caught the story about his
ex wife's sister, who was Mary pinchchet Meyer, who was
the one she's the one brother was killed on the
in Rock Creek Park in d C. And there was
(49:43):
a little story there about after she died in her
diary and I did you know, at the time, I
just kind of blown through the book. An interesting story,
but I was more focused on Watergate and some of
the other stuff. And then you go back and you
actually focus on it, and there's a story about how
this woman who at an affair with JFK lived behind
Ben Bradley's home in Georgetown, and Ben Bradley and his
(50:07):
wife were very good friends of the Kennedys. Before and
after he was elected president, spent a lot of time
with him. But then after this woman is killed, this
guy Angleton, who was high up in the CIA, is
like behind their house trying to break into this guest
house to find this diary. I mean, just it's all
(50:27):
so spider webby and connected. And then the story about
how she was killed. You know, there was a guy
that was charged with that that that was acquitted. He
didn't do it, and so there's no one knows who
killed her. And she was close to Kennedy and having
this crazy affair with him while he was in the
White House. So you know, just an example of it.
(50:48):
There there's always something in this in this story.
Speaker 4 (50:51):
Yeah, and you know that's that's one of the reasons,
you know, I was encouraged for years to write a
book and put down Alma research in a book, and
and you know there's thousands and thousands of books out
there on the assassination, and my book, I wanted to
write the book for the everyday person that I don't
know a whole lot about the assassinate. The assassination maybe
(51:13):
you know, know the official story, but I wanted to
write something that the everyday Joe could pick up and
learn some things about the assassination that our history books
didn't tell us. And so that was my whole purpose
of writing the book. And I don't go into these
you know, rabbit holes about the medical evidence and all that, which,
(51:34):
oh my gosh, you could write numerous books just about
that alone. But I try to touch on a little
bit of everything in my book. And and and I've
gotten so many positive comments and emails and you know
about you know, how the books has changed their life
and how they didn't know this happened, and that happened,
(51:56):
and you know so many things. You know, it's like
Operation Northwoods and things like that that that the American
public don't know about that that went on. You know,
it's fascinating. So that was that was the purpose of
of me writing the book. You know, I never and
you know, my wife one day that to me, you
think will ever be out of red with the book,
(52:16):
and I'm like, no, that was I.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
Just I just literally order to copy of your book
while we while you were saying that.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
So, I mean that was my purpose was not to
ever make money off the book, you know, And it
was it was just to get you know, a story
out there to the every day Joe that can UH
pick it up, Uh, read read about it and say,
oh my gosh, I didn't know this happened.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
I didn't.
Speaker 4 (52:38):
And you know, and that it's all out there in
black and white. I mean, I spent, oh my gosh,
I can't tell you how many hours I've spent at
the National or at the Dallas Municipal Archives and at
the police station, and and just going through you know,
there would be times I'd get kicked out of there
just because they were closing. Get out of here, you know,
(52:59):
and and just going through file after file after file,
and and so there's a lot of truth out there.
It's buried. You've got to dig for a lot of it.
But but a lot of the a lot of the
truth out there that that a lot of people say,
uh are just spewing from conspiracy nuts. It's out there
in black and white. And like I said, it's just
(53:19):
like a giant puzzle, and it's putting the puzzle together
and it's not easy.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
You got to do it in small sections and small
portions to get the truth, like like I said, the
Grassy No shooter, and and it's matching up witness statements.
Well this match is this and this match is this,
you know, and then after a while it kind of
paints a picture, you know for you.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Uh you you brought off wrathfully.
Speaker 4 (53:43):
On yatesm before I know, we're run out of time
before we go. That's one of the saddest stories. I mean,
obviously the assassination of President Kennedy and how that it
changed the world. And and I talk about that in
the book. A lot most people have no ideal how
the world changed that day. Uh we we we didn't
just Look who's one president that day?
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Right there?
Speaker 4 (54:04):
We lost tens of thousands of Americans. Maybe not that day,
but because Kennedy was killed, Vietnam happened. And if Kennedy
had lived, there had been no Vietnam, all right. And
I tell people, you know, if you don't think the
assassination affected your life, do you know anyone that who
(54:27):
was affected by Vietnam? Do you have a brother and
aunt and uncle, a you know, a relative that was killed?
Look how Vietnam changed us, changed our country? All right?
That all happened because of November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
All Right.
Speaker 4 (54:47):
Kennedy was clearly not he was clearly going to pull
us out of Vietnam. That there's a documented proof of that, Okay,
But after he died, Johnson the body wasn't even hold yet.
Johnson totally reversed Kennedy's policies on Vietnam and we went
(55:07):
full fled straight ahead. Now the reason for that, I
mean a lot of Johnson's best friends were weapons manufacturers
in and around Texas, all right, and uh, a lot
of them were going broke at the time. A lot
of people don't know that, uh, And they made a
lot of money off of Vietnam. And so I'm not
(55:28):
laying the assassination and went to Johnson's fee. There is
there is some stuff there to make you think that
Johnson knew something was in the works. I mean, you
can whether you you know, people believe the Madeline Brown story,
which you know, she claims she was told, you know,
the assassination was going to happen, you know, the night
before and all that, which I'm not sure I buy that.
(55:50):
I have met miss Brown and talked to her on
numerous occasions. But anyway, you know, the world changed that day,
and stories like Ralph leon Yate don't get talked about.
And this is a guy who was a refrigeration repair
man who was just out doing his job picked up
picked up this hitchhiker on Wednesday, November twenty and two
(56:11):
days for the assassination who he claims was Lee Harvey
Oswalal And you know this guy knows, you know. He
starts talking to Yates about you know, you think the
president can be shot, you think it can be done
from a high power building.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
He looked like Oswald.
Speaker 4 (56:28):
It looked just like Oswald.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
It's crazy.
Speaker 4 (56:31):
He dropped him off at the corner of Elm in Houston,
where's exactly where the book depositoria is. And you know,
Yates goes back and he tells his coworkers about it.
This is two days before the assassination. He tells his
wife Dorothy. He tells his wife Dorothy, which I got
to interview her. He tells his wife Dorothy about it.
You know what they do to him, They they literally
(56:51):
the FBI puts this man in a mental institution for
the rest of his life. It destroyed He had five
kids his whole life because he came forward and told
his story and look it up rough leonyh is one
of the saddest stories that come out of the whole
Kennedy assassination. Other than the assassination itself.
Speaker 2 (57:14):
Well, it's just it's just crazy that a lot of this,
I mean, these are folks he talked to before the assassination. Right,
If it was just his wife would be one thing,
but there were co workers, and it's just too much,
too many coincidences. And then for every and it's obviously
a tragedy what happened with him, but for every one
of these, roughly on Yates's story stories, you have like
(57:36):
Roger Craig, and you have Fritzker, and you have de
morn Shield and you have it's just insane. But John,
I know we are pretty much out of time. I
want to thank you for coming on. Hopefully you can
come out again and we can maybe focused on another
part of this, because this is a I think this
is a very very important discussion we're having and everyone
should really exactly as you said, realize what was law
(58:00):
on that day and what what happened. But I'd love
you to talk for a minute about where people can
get your book and your podcast so that all our
listeners can can buy the book and subscribe to your podcast.
Speaker 4 (58:11):
Yeah, my podcast I'm recording actually today or later today
episode one eleven. So I've I'm up to one hundred
and eleven episodes. Uh, you know touch on the assassinate. Well,
just talk about like I said, uh, like like I
wrote the book, I wanted people, ordinary people to be
able to to learn some things about the assassination that
(58:35):
that our government and our history books didn't tell us.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (58:39):
My book can be found on Amazon it could you know?
Speaker 2 (58:42):
You can get it.
Speaker 4 (58:43):
Also on my website. Uh that's www. H End of
Innocence JFK dot com. The sits down at the moment
because I'm doing some maintenance on it. Uh, or you
can email me. I'm I've been sending out signed copies
of my book uh uh recently for you can get
the hardcover for sixty dollars, uh the soft cover for forty,
(59:05):
and I'll mail it to you. Uh so sign autograph copy,
but just email me at End of Innocence JFK at
gmail dot com and I'd be glad to get you
one in the mail and we can go from there.
But enjoyed being on with you guys a day, and
call me anytime. I'd love to be back home with
(59:26):
you anytime.
Speaker 2 (59:28):
All right, Thanks, so much. John. We appreciate your time.
Speaker 4 (59:30):
Thank you, guys, appreciate you well.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
Buddy, there you have it.
Speaker 3 (59:33):
I mean, I there was just not much to be
said there. Every time mister Young opened his mouth, you know, new,
at least for me, you know, new interesting things came out.
I mean, this idea of there being two Oz Walt's.
Speaker 2 (59:46):
And one of them being Mike Ditka, one of them
being Mike Ditka. Who again.
Speaker 3 (59:50):
I mean, if you're looking to get somebody killed, and
your choices between hiring Lee I r v Oswalter Mike Didke,
you're going gall again.
Speaker 2 (59:57):
Not to smirch mister Didcom. I'm sure you wouldn't want
to be involved, but he's necessarily sixties Mike Ditka. I mean,
this is this is a different guy. This isn't the
guy who's is He's alive, right, yeah, as far as
I'm sure he is in some capacity.
Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
You're not going to kill Mike Didko.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
But he's very angry. He had like seven heart attacks
in the eighties and he still coached a championship team.
Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
That's what motivated him.
Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
So, buddy, I mean, you know, it's uh, it was
good stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
I'm looking forward to having mister young back on try
to close the loop on some of these things. Why
is there a thirty thirty showcasing on some other building?
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Well, you know what, I not to say that the
pigeon dropped it.
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
The pigeons left the book depository, clearly taking the clamping
a thirty hot or thirty thirty showcasing and carry it
to a different building, thereby screwing up the whole investigation.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
So I just real quick, My thing about that is,
I don't I don't necessarily buy that there were people
in these other buildings because I think someone would have
seen them, and I don't know. I haven't heard that
anyone saw them. But and I also think, you know,
Oswald most likely fired a shot, right, I mean he
was he was working in that building. But you know,
(01:01:09):
the question about or somebody fired it's stuff to even say, right,
because no one saw Oswald coming down those stairs, and
they're like those women were on those stairs. So how
do you figure that out? And if somebody else did it,
how did he get out of the building he or
she or she? I just don't know. I've got to
go lay down, Brett overwhel you.
Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
You go lay down and get yourself ready, because we
got to come back here and do this again. And
you know in one week's time, which we will, we will,
We'll do it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
We mister Young.
Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Maybe back, maybe not, maybe it's back to our usual shenanigans,
but in any case, we'll see you right back here
next week.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Well I be frequently.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
This has been IP frequently, once again clearing a forest
of lies with the machete of truth.
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
You're welcome.
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