Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, Welcome, Welcome. This is the Chat, a place
where we are chatting about the things that are important,
and today we have a very important show. Listen, you
have probably heard of a little book turned movie called
Fifty Shades of Gray. Well, the gray area is becoming
even more gray. It seems like nobody really knows how
(00:24):
to kind of get a handle on what's right, what's wrong,
what's in between, and if any of this is really
doing damage in the lives of people. And we're going
to talk about that today because it's important. Millions upon
millions of people, mostly women, have read this book, have
gone to this movie, and we've already did a show
on the Fifty Shades of Gray. We talked to two
very incredible women who were able to help us kind
(00:45):
of wave through some of the psychological waters as to
what this is doing to our lives, to our marriages.
But today we're going to talk a little bit more
personally with a couple people that are going to be
able to give us some personal insight about how they're
lives have been affected by things like pornography, promiscuity. You know, listen,
this is not just a man's issue. It very much
(01:07):
is a woman's issue as well. We're going to get
the female perspective on it. You are going to want
to stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
This is going to be a good one.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Hey there, pull up a chair.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
This has already been a great conversation that we've been having.
This is part two of a conversation. Okay, so you
need to be part one if you have not already.
We've been talking about an issue, something that really is
an issue for women that we really don't talk about much,
and that's pornography, promiscuity, our culture. How we're going to
be able to be pure as women and stand up
(02:00):
against you know, so many that, so many things that
are happening in our culture, not the least of which
is this phenomena which has kind of raced across the
entire planet, fifty shades of gray. Well, we've named or
great fifty shades of gray. Yeah, that's right. We've named
this program fifty Shades of Grace. Just to give you
another alternative and to hear a little some stories of
hope that will be helpful to you. And we want
(02:21):
to add to that conversation. Today we've been talking to
a wonderful woman named Mo. But we also want to
talk to a young lady named Sheena. I'm just kind
of taken by her, and I think you're gonna see why,
because do.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
You remember when you were a little girl and you.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Grew up thinking, man, one day, I want to live
in New York City. One day I want to be
you know, I want to work in fashion. Maybe I
want to do some cool things with my life. Well,
she's not just dreaming about it, She's actually doing it.
And as a result of that, she really does have
a pulse on what's happening in the lives of young women.
So we want to talk to her today. Will you
please welcome Sena to the program.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
We can't wait to talk to you. Thank you, Thank
you for being here.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I'm so glad you're here at Moyes. Should we talk
about how impressed we are with her pants.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
It's the pants, it's the blazer, it's the hair above
all else.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, you're taking all teenage. Is there a reason why
you look teen vogue?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I wanted to impress you, Yeah, right, I thought it
was gonna be battle of the curls, and you hold
yours back. So all I'm feeling I'm feeling confident.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Well, you look so fashionable because you work for teen Vogue.
Tell us what you do there.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I am in a great marketing director at teen Vague,
which is kind of a fancy way to say that.
We are the puzzle piece between the ad side and
the editorial side, and it's a lot of creativity. It's
really fast paced. We're building campaigns all the time, long hours,
but really incredible work.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And you have a pulse on what's happening with young
women because that's your audience, that's who you're kind of
making sure the magazine reads well towards. Yes, Okay, So
we've been talking with Mo and part one of this
conversation that we've been having about her personal struggle but
also culturally the struggle women really are having with purity
and so what trends both of you, particularly you Shina
(04:13):
though in the position that you have, What trends are
you seeing that are really making it difficult for our
young women to be pure?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
So yeah, a big part of our job is knowing
what's going on in pop culture at all times and
seeing that, you know, not just in the magazine in print,
but seeing you know, social conversations with social media, and
there's really an overwhelming pressure for girls to define themselves
and define yourself without boundaries, so you know, live life
(04:42):
for today, get out there and you know, see what's
inside of you, discover that. And really, for young girls,
the people who are seen to be you know, the
bold and the free are the ones who really push
to the edge of the limits. And you know, they're
the ones who are are really diving into things that
(05:02):
are really risque and that that's getting all the media attention.
So those are kind of the girls that and the
people that women are looking up to now, that our
young women are looking up to, and you know, it's
something that it's really warring against kind of you know,
all the messages that we have, it's they're seeing these
women who are on the outer edges, you know, pushing
the limits as the ones who are bold and free,
(05:23):
versus us women as Christians, who are the ones who
actually have the truth. We're the ones who are bold
and free.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And I mean, you're living a pretty exciting life. So
you're living kind of bold and out loud and free.
But what do you guys think is that dividing line,
sort of that line that a woman, a young woman
that's watching right now she's trying to figure out how
do I live out loud and be that kind of
woman that I so admire when I look in a magazine,
(05:51):
except be able to do that in a way that's
still honoring to my body and honoring to myself as
a woman. What's that line that she should be looking
for to lie let her know when she's sort of
teetering over the edge.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah, I'll go first. I think what's interesting. I love
how you use the word free, because I think that
is kind of the anthem of these young women if
they want to be expressive and free and you know,
all of these things. But in no definition of freedom
that I know, does your personal freedom come at the
(06:25):
cost of bondage to others. And so I think these
girls are thinking, I'm going to express myself and where
whatever I want and be as sexual as I want
because I'm free. Yet it's causing their brothers to stumble,
it's causing other girls to covet and envy. It's causing
a lot of bondage and a lot of people around them.
And I've just always found that the boldest leader, the
(06:48):
most free individual, is the most faithful follower, follower of
Christ and I think there's amazing freedom in knowing that
we were designed by a creator who's written us this
tremendous love letter and telling us how to be at
our best when we're nearest to him. To me, it's like,
give that a run, Give it a shot, girls, you know,
try that type of freedom and see how that not
(07:12):
only empowers you but empowers the people around you too.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Okay, so tell me, does teen Vogue Are you able
to present a picture, an image of this bold, confident,
fearless woman who is living out loud and do that
in a way that doesn't position her sexually. Do you
think that your magazine does that?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Well?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, absolutely, I think you know, there's there's definitely a
fine line. Our readers are anywhere from you know, teenagers
in high school to mostly college agent and a lot
are beyond. So from a perspective of like my actual work,
I am in a safe space of you know, not
having to put together things that are over sexualized or
(07:54):
that are really drawing that line. I think, you know, regardless,
when you look at the industry in general, the media industry,
so much is permissible just in the work culture, and
gray is getting grayer. Gray is getting grayer as far
as work culture and that perspective. And so I think
as a Christian, as a believer, it's my position to
(08:16):
to be the light there because you know, for for
most that I can from what I can see from
my coworkers and colleagues, you know, there are not a
lot of believers at all. Is it hard?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Is it hard to be in the middle of Manhattan
working for a major magazine and be a believer? You
way to swim upstream?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
It would be harder if I were not filled up
on the Lord, and if I did not have such
an intimate relationship with Him myself. I think that's something
that it's pertinent that you have. That you have to
you have to be filled up with Him yourself. You
have to have community around you and people who support
you and people who who understand. And when you've had
a hard day, you know, when when you do come
(08:58):
up against something where it's rubbing against you know, the
area where you feel that christis had for you to
walk within the support of that community is absolutely necessary
so that you could step out and do whatever you
need to do and face whatever you need to face.
So it's not circumstantial, it's really, you know, that intimate
time you have with the Lord and the people who
(09:18):
are strengthening you and keeping you, you know, in check.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Do you think, Mo, that there could have been an
older woman in your life if she would have said this,
if she would have asked me this, if someone would
have done this, I probably could have circumvented a whole
lot of a lot of my journey. It could have
been shortened and less impactful if somebody would have done.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Yeah, it's or not.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Maybe not Well.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
I had a mom who wholeheartedly, with everything in her,
was trying to instill those strong values within me, who
really did constantly share those those strong messages and prayed
for me without ceasing. I think that, you know, girls
(10:10):
will take what their mother says with a grain of
salt as comparative to if a friend or a peer
were to say something. And I think possibly if there
had been someone a bit nearer to my age who
had let let me know, you know, you have purpose. Actually,
God has unbelievable plans for you, and you're so valuable,
(10:32):
You're worth so much. It's one thing to hear that
from adults when you're a kid, because you think.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
You're of course, I am that.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, keep it coming, you're old. Yeah. But I don't
know if I had had a peers when I was
a teenager who had had the boldness to come up
and shake some sense into me and say, hey, we're
sisters in this. We've got a bold commissioning. Let's go
(11:01):
be about God's business and break the mirrors that are
just in front of us constantly. Let's focus on something else.
I think that would have been amazing. I unfortunately didn't
really have that type of bold community around me. Hints now,
why I do what I do of trying to get
in with younger girls and get him to rise up
(11:22):
together in community to say we are women, and we
are beautiful, and we are powerful and strong and mighty
in the Lord. We don't have to be, you know,
the greatest sexual tease to be a powerful female. I
think it would have gone a long way.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
And I was gonna say, I think it's the vision
that you have to have to know that God said
that you're worthy, that God said that you are my daughter,
and I love you and I have something amazing for you.
There's a woman that I've made you to be, and
he's calling us into being those people. He's calling us
out of darkness and bondage and all these things that
(11:58):
would keep us out of that destiny of you know,
a woman who is powerful in her sphere of influence
and who's just operating in all the blessings and all
the things that He's built to help you just spread
his message and spread his love to people around you.
And that for me is something that you know, it's
never been about staying away from sin or staying away
(12:19):
from you know, she needed to shield myself from certain things.
It's always about chasing after what God has set before us.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Do you think that community, like what Mo was saying,
do you think that community is important enough that it
would steer a young girl away from having to go
out to define herself. Do you think that community is
enough definition for her that she doesn't then need to
seek it elsewhere?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah? Absolutely, I think that. I think there's so much
power in being able to look over to your peers
and say, you know, we share this in common. Or
she's like me and she's walking in freedom. She's like me,
and she's you know, not needing to run to these things.
She's she's whole. Being able to look over and see
someone who's like you and being able to relate to
that is that is such a powerful thing for me
(13:06):
in particular, that that's what made celibacy real to me
because I wasn't. I wasn't saved until I was almost
twenty three.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And I now, like twenty four and a half.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I am so much twenty I'm twenty nine now, so
I've been saved for just over six years. And that
was one of the first things that changed. Is that
just walking in purity and walking in celibacy. And it's
crazy because you know, I turned to my roommates and
my friends who were there, and I was like, I
feel so powerful, Like I actually you feel powerful. You
(13:40):
feel there's just amazing thing that happens when you step
into who God has called you to be. And you know,
without hearing that from people, without hearing someone next to
your sister say, oh my goodness, there's so much there's
so much power and amazing. You know, life in this
and walking in this way, that's what calls you to freedom.
That's what gives you the boldness to step out, and
(14:00):
you know, in community, we can't be afraid to share
those things or to share what we're walking through or
share what we've broken free from, because that, you know,
gives permission to others that they can break free as well,
and that hey, this sounds crazy or this seems radical.
It seems so radical to me to like, well, I'm
not going to have sex again until I'm married. That
was such a radical thought until I saw other people
(14:22):
walking like that and it's like, well, she can do it.
I can do that too.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah. Well, listen, freedom looks good on you girl. It
looks good on you too, mo. I think it looks
good on all of us. As a matter of fact,
we're going to take a quick break and we'll be
back in just a few minutes to talk more about
this important topic and about how we can all be free.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
This is going to be an incredible experience where we
all get to see what it's like to experience God's
unfailing love. We are incredibly loved, incredibly valuable, and incredibly capable.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Of blowing it.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
That's why we are in the Book of Hoseiah. I
want you to experience it.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I want you to be able to enjoy it. I
want you to be able.
Speaker 6 (15:18):
To taste and see that the Lord is good. If
you're lost The message of Hoseiah is that God will
find you. If you're ashamed, He'll cover you. If you've
wandered off, He'll come get you. If you have given
up on him, he is not going to give up
on you. If you have found yourself in change and
(15:39):
in slavery, and you don't know how you got there,
he will buy you back and give you freedom. That's
the incredible scandal of God's love. He would do whatever
it takes to restore us.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
That kind of unfailing love will change everything.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Welcome back, Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
We are having a great.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Conversation, a strong conversation. If you've got a teenager, a
young woman in your life, you're going to want to
pull her clothes, make her sit down. Watch just a
little bit. We have some strong, incredible free women that
are on our program today that are helping us to
just kind of get some clarity on the issue of promiscuity, pornography,
just sex in our culture, and how we can really
(16:36):
just know that our power as women is not found
in our sexuality, but it is found in Christ. So
these two incredible women have been helping us with that,
and I want to ask you a little bit about
that Fifty Shades of Grace is the name of the
program because of fifty Shades of Gray. Did you find
(16:56):
in your role at teen Vogue did you find any noticeable,
sort of measurable effects that you were guys were able
to detect at all in the lives of young women
as a result of this phenomena of a book and
movie that just sort of ran rampant across the culture.
Was there anything that you guys detected and what your
readers wanted and what they were asking for and what
(17:17):
intrigued them.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I think as far as Teen Vogue, you know, we
definitely content wise, we steer clear of things that can
you know, walk that fine line. So I think as
far as the content of the magazine, that's something that
we have not delved into. But as far as like
a work culture, yeah, I could definitely say that it's
you know, being a having to kind of have a
(17:41):
pulse finger to the pulse of pop culture. You know,
that is something that everyone's talking about, everyone's going to
see it's.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Very non addressed, and how do you not address it
in a magazine like Teen Vogue when it's what everybody's
talking about.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I think, you know, to a certain to a certain level,
they respect the line of you know, the the age
gap that we have with readers and knowing that certain
things we just are not going to address. Yeah, but
I think you know, as far as kind of the
heavier poll is to are you joining in those conversations
when they're being had at work? You know, are you
allowing kind of the curiosity to pull at you and
(18:19):
you know, are you going to go see it because
it's what everyone's talking about. Are you going to go
see it to be a part of this this culture,
in this moment and this you know, conversation on social media.
And I think you know, to a to a certain extent,
it's important that you know, we as as Christian as women,
we put a stake in the ground and say that like,
I'm not crossing this line. This is something that I'm
not going to be a part of. And I think
(18:41):
it's important to have that vision for you know what
you know that God's calling you to, what life He's
he's calling you to to lead and what light? And
you know He's calling you to be and decide ahead
of time what things that you're going to take part
in and what things you're not and if this is
something that you know, once you predecided it's something I'm
not gonna do with, something I'm not going to take
part in. There's such power in that, and you don't
have to continue to make that decision. As you know,
(19:03):
the book is out and other movies out and there's
a conversation about it, and now you know once you
hadn't draw that line.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, okay. I want to talk a little bit about
the steak in the ground that you talked about, though, Sheena,
because you told us in the earlier segment that you
did put a steak in the ground in your own life.
What did it look like for you to come from
living a certain way, indulging in certain things, enjoying your
life in the way you chose to then, and then
(19:28):
becoming a Christian and choosing that you were going to
not do away with your sexuality forever because sexuality is
important part of every woman's life, but that you were
going to kind of corral that part of your life.
It's not like it's just an easy thing to do,
especially living in the environment that you're living in. So
what did that practically look like for you? What parameter
(19:49):
did you have to put in place to begin to
walk in this purity that you wanted so much for
your life.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So I was actually in a long term relationship for
three years at the time when I saved. And it's
crazy because that sex was the thing that I put
up as the wall and in between, you know, me
and God. And I've been going to church and I'd
been getting closer and I felt like, maybe a couple
of weeks before that day when I made that decision,
(20:15):
I heard and understood the Gospel for the first time
in my entire life, and I understood all the freedom
that He gave us. And that's when it started changing
my heart that how could I do these things? How
could I How could I just walk away from now
knowing all the freedom that He's giving us. And one
day I broke down and the words came flying out
(20:36):
of my mouth, I have to stop having sex. And
that was actually my salvation moment. In that moment, that
was the moment I stopped running. That was the moment
I stopped fearing that I had to protect my relationship.
I had to protect this guy that I thought was
gonna be my husband. It's obviously not.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
What did you lose him over this? Issue, there were.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
A number of things. The very next day, I went
to him and I said, I'm so sorry. I'm so
sorry this affects you. I'm so sorry that I'm changing
my part of the bargain in this deal. I'm so
sorry that I'm the one changing. But I can't do
this anymore. And and that's awesome. And I don't know
what's gonna happen to our relationship. I don't know if
you're still my husband.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
What was his response.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
His response was that he was supportive and yeah, like
twenty four hours yet, Yeah, and I and I had
to and I had to be really clear with here's
what here's what we're gonna do, here's what we're not
gonna do. Yeah, And quickly it became okay, here's what
everything we're not gonna do, because it's it's a slippery
slope and a gray area is you can't. So I
made it very black and white. And God is faithful
(21:41):
because regardless, God was like, okay, well he's not your husband.
So he just went to work and moved everything out
and that relationship broke up quickly, and it's for the better.
It's it's amazing because he's not the person you know.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And then after that relationship, did it become easier for
you then or did you still have to put parameters
in place to make sure that you say it.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Became easier because the immediate threat is gone and now
it's as I said, it's deciding ahead of time. I
am not going to go past these levels. This is
where I draw the line. I will not go down
that path with someone. And then that way, like you know,
having a great area, having an area where you're reasoning, now,
that's such a dangerous territory. Yeah, keep it black and white.
(22:23):
This is what I will do. This is what I
will not do. This is how we'll honor God. And
when it gets to a certain point, you shut it
down and it does happen.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
And I think that everybody needs to be aware of
the courage that it takes to make that decision, especially
when you're like you were, in a relationship where things
had already been been experienced and you're having to bravely
go to a person and say, hey, I've made this
decision and this is what we're going to do. This
is what we're not going to do. It takes courage,
and it always it doesn't always pan out positively, like
(22:50):
everybody's not going to applaud you and be okay, and
the relationship is going to work out. It could be
that you're going to lose this person that you care
about very very much because they're not on this journey
with you. But that is a choice that you made
and it doesn't look like you're suffering from that choice
at all.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
My friends, I think I cannot tell you how much
you know. After the fact, it I felt like I
got all of me back. I felt like, no man
is ever gonna have power over me, No man is
ever gonna have a piece of me. I will never
have to live with this. There's this terrible struggle going
on while I was trying to do that and trying
to run away from God at the same time. It
(23:25):
was too much and knowing just the the the peace,
you know, and my soul afterwards after that that no
longer having that tension between, you know, fighting between what
I wanted my life to be and what I know
God was calling me to, and it's like, ok God's
God's gonna win in this. God's gonna win.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
So okay, So Moa, I have a question for you,
as a married woman. Now, Yes, I wanna know, cause
I'm just I'm hearing little sweet shea over here talking
about how she's saying, you know, I'm not I'm not
gonna let a guy have kind of power over me
like that. I want to know, as a married woman, now,
how you balance this important perspective that you're your own woman,
(24:06):
and that you are coming into your own freedom, all
that stuff that's all great. How do you balance that
with the reality that as a married woman, in some sense,
you were voluntarily Now you're having to shift that mindset
just a little bit so that you are voluntarily in
a relationship where he is the leader. I am submitting
myself to his leadership, not to be a doormat to
(24:28):
be walked over, but because I know that this is
the kind of the order that the Lord. How do
you shift your mindset? Because it doesn't just happen when
you say I do You don't say I do it
all of a sudden just want to be submissive. You
have to kind of set yourself up for that. So
how do you be a powerful, strong single woman, live
the adventure with God, enjoy being alone, all that great stuff,
but not walk down that path so much that when
(24:50):
the time comes for you to join your life with another,
you're not willing to voluntarily do that easily do that.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I love that question. I love it because I very much,
just like Sheena, was, you know, boldly walking in this
independence with the Lord and guarding my heart, guarding my body.
And it's interesting because I thought, well, sure, when we
say I do, a switch will flip and I will
you know, suddenly fully be able to give of myself.
But the tears on my honeymoon sort of proved that
(25:19):
theory wrong because I realized all this bondage that existed
that I didn't even know. I was, you know, trying
to be performance based, you know, and I had never
let myself with other guys go all the way. So
therefore I had the bit of this barrier up in
my own heart and body, with my own husband to
ever fully surrender every every.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Piece of me.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
And it just.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
We were a hot mess on that cruise. It was
interesting and he is the most gracious man and drew
me in. I mean, the food was so good, but
that made it like a hotter mess, you know, because
some of the it's a long story, but you know,
he was he was a man who drew me in
and for the very first time I understood that sex
(26:04):
was like this holy threesome between the husband and the
wife and Jesus, and he was Jesus is a very
real part of this equation, this marriage, not just in
the vows of you know, the day to day. You're
the man, I'm the woman. This is what you do,
this is what I do. But in all of it,
including the sexual relationship, including everything, we became one flesh.
(26:28):
And so what that means is that you know, sex
is is truly an act of worship with that one flesh.
Which is why it's so out of whack when you're
out of marriage, because it's just not it's not the
right type of worship. It's like keys are off or something.
But when you are truly like in worship and marriage,
(26:50):
following becomes a gift to have a strong leader you trust,
to be able to surrender yourself to him, and sometimes
sex to be amazing and intimate and romantic, and sometimes
you're laughing the whole way through, and sometimes you just
really don't want to, but you know your husband does
need that, and you surrender and it ends up I mean,
(27:11):
at all, it's just this beautiful dance you learn that's
awkward at times, and it's you know, funny at times,
and it's amazing at times. But it's this true act
of leadership and submission that that's really beautiful. And when
it's with a husband who you know, honors you and cherishes,
cherishes you and sees you as a gift and a
(27:34):
prize and treats you right and well, following becomes a
treasure comparable to following the Lord. Yeah, you follow a
good man, a good husband who's seeking the Lord as well.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And it.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Knocked my independence out pretty quickly when I when I
got that gist, I liked it.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 6 (27:56):
It's true?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Are you ready to cry on your whole I'm just thinking.
I'm just thinking. You're in a very You're in a
very interesting place in your life. You're a young woman,
but you're very successful. You're living this sort of progressive
independent standing for righteousness, God, all this stuff. But I'm
also very successful on my job. You're like this, you know,
you're you're one of the kind of statistical images of
(28:18):
women who statistical and not a negative statistic, but statistical
in the sense that you're one of these very successful, independent,
doing it on our own kind of women. And I
think in general, for women that are single and are
doing it on their own, it can sometimes be hard
to sort of meld that into a relationship. I don't
I mean, I haven't even asked you if if marriage
(28:39):
is something that you desire, but it is so so
do you think that it's going to be hard for
you to bring all of this success and independence and
all that good stuff underneath the covering of a husband.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
No, because and first of all, I think it's it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, it is, really, that's described it beautifully. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I I absolutely hope that marriage is in my future.
I hope that the Lord has a man for me.
I pray for it all the time.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
You know, we got cameras, I can put a call
on flu it up.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
But I you know, I think independence is it's a
very interesting concept when you're when you're a believer. Because
I am absolutely submissive to the Lord. I am absolutely
so you want to oh absolutely yeah. And and I'm
absolutely not walking alone. I'm not just out there rigid
and like power through it. I've I've lived with my
(29:46):
two best friends, I've got a community of women that
we've been building over the years, and God has just
blessed us with.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
You go to a great, amazing Liberty Church in New
York is awesomebody's amusing.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
And you know th there are checks and balances there,
there are There are people that I've allowed to speak
into my life. There are people whose lives that you know,
I speak into and and we we lock arm in
arm and we do life together and all things. And
I think there's absolutely gonna be a shift when that's
you know, when I'm one with a man. Yeah, hopefully
(30:17):
one day an awesome man, you know, But I think
you know, I it it is planning and preparation and
all things that you know. I love that I I
live with two girls who they you know, we see
each other through thick and thin and through awful times
and when we're our worst and our best and and
all of that and and so you know, I I
(30:40):
absolutely cannot wait until one day, you know, for it
to be marriage. But it's amazing to to understand and
to walk in freedom and wholeness as an individual and
know that even if that's not something that's ever it
that God ever has in the cards for me, that
I'm not waiting to be to be whole and to
be one, or waiting for for someone and validate me,
(31:00):
or to give me power and a certain thing you.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
That's good, That is awesome, That is awesome. This has
been great, It has been great. And listen, freedom really
does look good on these girls. It looks good on me.
It can look good on you too, no matter what
you're struggling with, whether it's this issue we've been talking about,
or it's something else that's just kind of got you
shackled and feeling a lit l a little bit like
you're not able to live fully and freely and without
(31:25):
fear of consequences and regrets. Listen, you don't have to
stand for that in your life, not one more day.
You can be the woman, uh that God has called
you to be, and you can start today. You don't
even need to wait till tomorrow. Freedom can be yours today,
and so I'm gonna be uh praying to that end.
I hope that you have enjoyed our program today, cause
we sure have enjoyed having this conversation. Please join us
(31:46):
again next time.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
Annoying
Hey there, Welcome, Welcome. This is the Chat, a place
where we are chatting about the things that are important,
and today we have a very important show. Listen, you
have probably heard of a little book turned movie called
Fifty Shades of Gray. Well, the gray area is becoming
even more gray. It seems like nobody really knows how
(00:24):
to kind of get a handle on what's right, what's wrong,
what's in between, and if any of this is really
doing damage in the lives of people. And we're going
to talk about that today because it's important. Millions upon
millions of people, mostly women, have read this book, have
gone to this movie, and we've already did a show
on the Fifty Shades of Gray. We talked to two
very incredible women who were able to help us kind
(00:45):
of wave through some of the psychological waters as to
what this is doing to our lives, to our marriages.
But today we're going to talk a little bit more
personally with a couple people that are going to be
able to give us some personal insight about how they're
lives have been affected by things like pornography, promiscuity. You know, listen,
this is not just a man's issue. It very much
(01:07):
is a woman's issue as well. We're going to get
the female perspective on it. You are going to want
to stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
This is going to be a good one.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Hey there, pull up a chair.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
This has already been a great conversation that we've been having.
This is part two of a conversation. Okay, so you
need to be part one if you have not already.
We've been talking about an issue, something that really is
an issue for women that we really don't talk about much,
and that's pornography, promiscuity, our culture. How we're going to
be able to be pure as women and stand up
(02:00):
against you know, so many that, so many things that
are happening in our culture, not the least of which
is this phenomena which has kind of raced across the
entire planet, fifty shades of gray. Well, we've named or
great fifty shades of gray. Yeah, that's right. We've named
this program fifty Shades of Grace. Just to give you
another alternative and to hear a little some stories of
hope that will be helpful to you. And we want
(02:21):
to add to that conversation. Today we've been talking to
a wonderful woman named Mo. But we also want to
talk to a young lady named Sheena. I'm just kind
of taken by her, and I think you're gonna see why,
because do.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
You remember when you were a little girl and you.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Grew up thinking, man, one day, I want to live
in New York City. One day I want to be
you know, I want to work in fashion. Maybe I
want to do some cool things with my life. Well,
she's not just dreaming about it, She's actually doing it.
And as a result of that, she really does have
a pulse on what's happening in the lives of young women.
So we want to talk to her today. Will you
please welcome Sena to the program.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
We can't wait to talk to you. Thank you, Thank
you for being here.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I'm so glad you're here at Moyes. Should we talk
about how impressed we are with her pants.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
It's the pants, it's the blazer, it's the hair above
all else.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, you're taking all teenage. Is there a reason why
you look teen vogue?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I wanted to impress you, Yeah, right, I thought it
was gonna be battle of the curls, and you hold
yours back. So all I'm feeling I'm feeling confident.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Well, you look so fashionable because you work for teen Vogue.
Tell us what you do there.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I am in a great marketing director at teen Vague,
which is kind of a fancy way to say that.
We are the puzzle piece between the ad side and
the editorial side, and it's a lot of creativity. It's
really fast paced. We're building campaigns all the time, long hours,
but really incredible work.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And you have a pulse on what's happening with young
women because that's your audience, that's who you're kind of
making sure the magazine reads well towards. Yes, Okay, So
we've been talking with Mo and part one of this
conversation that we've been having about her personal struggle but
also culturally the struggle women really are having with purity
and so what trends both of you, particularly you Shina
(04:13):
though in the position that you have, What trends are
you seeing that are really making it difficult for our
young women to be pure?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
So yeah, a big part of our job is knowing
what's going on in pop culture at all times and
seeing that, you know, not just in the magazine in print,
but seeing you know, social conversations with social media, and
there's really an overwhelming pressure for girls to define themselves
and define yourself without boundaries, so you know, live life
(04:42):
for today, get out there and you know, see what's
inside of you, discover that. And really, for young girls,
the people who are seen to be you know, the
bold and the free are the ones who really push
to the edge of the limits. And you know, they're
the ones who are are really diving into things that
(05:02):
are really risque and that that's getting all the media attention.
So those are kind of the girls that and the
people that women are looking up to now, that our
young women are looking up to, and you know, it's
something that it's really warring against kind of you know,
all the messages that we have, it's they're seeing these
women who are on the outer edges, you know, pushing
the limits as the ones who are bold and free,
(05:23):
versus us women as Christians, who are the ones who
actually have the truth. We're the ones who are bold
and free.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And I mean, you're living a pretty exciting life. So
you're living kind of bold and out loud and free.
But what do you guys think is that dividing line,
sort of that line that a woman, a young woman
that's watching right now she's trying to figure out how
do I live out loud and be that kind of
woman that I so admire when I look in a magazine,
(05:51):
except be able to do that in a way that's
still honoring to my body and honoring to myself as
a woman. What's that line that she should be looking
for to lie let her know when she's sort of
teetering over the edge.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah, I'll go first. I think what's interesting. I love
how you use the word free, because I think that
is kind of the anthem of these young women if
they want to be expressive and free and you know,
all of these things. But in no definition of freedom
that I know, does your personal freedom come at the
(06:25):
cost of bondage to others. And so I think these
girls are thinking, I'm going to express myself and where
whatever I want and be as sexual as I want
because I'm free. Yet it's causing their brothers to stumble,
it's causing other girls to covet and envy. It's causing
a lot of bondage and a lot of people around them.
And I've just always found that the boldest leader, the
(06:48):
most free individual, is the most faithful follower, follower of
Christ and I think there's amazing freedom in knowing that
we were designed by a creator who's written us this
tremendous love letter and telling us how to be at
our best when we're nearest to him. To me, it's like,
give that a run, Give it a shot, girls, you know,
try that type of freedom and see how that not
(07:12):
only empowers you but empowers the people around you too.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Okay, so tell me, does teen Vogue Are you able
to present a picture, an image of this bold, confident,
fearless woman who is living out loud and do that
in a way that doesn't position her sexually. Do you
think that your magazine does that?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Well?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, absolutely, I think you know, there's there's definitely a
fine line. Our readers are anywhere from you know, teenagers
in high school to mostly college agent and a lot
are beyond. So from a perspective of like my actual work,
I am in a safe space of you know, not
having to put together things that are over sexualized or
(07:54):
that are really drawing that line. I think, you know, regardless,
when you look at the industry in general, the media industry,
so much is permissible just in the work culture, and
gray is getting grayer. Gray is getting grayer as far
as work culture and that perspective. And so I think
as a Christian, as a believer, it's my position to
(08:16):
to be the light there because you know, for for
most that I can from what I can see from
my coworkers and colleagues, you know, there are not a
lot of believers at all. Is it hard?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Is it hard to be in the middle of Manhattan
working for a major magazine and be a believer? You
way to swim upstream?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
It would be harder if I were not filled up
on the Lord, and if I did not have such
an intimate relationship with Him myself. I think that's something
that it's pertinent that you have. That you have to
you have to be filled up with Him yourself. You
have to have community around you and people who support
you and people who who understand. And when you've had
a hard day, you know, when when you do come
(08:58):
up against something where it's rubbing against you know, the
area where you feel that christis had for you to
walk within the support of that community is absolutely necessary
so that you could step out and do whatever you
need to do and face whatever you need to face.
So it's not circumstantial, it's really, you know, that intimate
time you have with the Lord and the people who
(09:18):
are strengthening you and keeping you, you know, in check.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Do you think, Mo, that there could have been an
older woman in your life if she would have said this,
if she would have asked me this, if someone would
have done this, I probably could have circumvented a whole
lot of a lot of my journey. It could have
been shortened and less impactful if somebody would have done.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Yeah, it's or not.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Maybe not Well.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
I had a mom who wholeheartedly, with everything in her,
was trying to instill those strong values within me, who
really did constantly share those those strong messages and prayed
for me without ceasing. I think that, you know, girls
(10:10):
will take what their mother says with a grain of
salt as comparative to if a friend or a peer
were to say something. And I think possibly if there
had been someone a bit nearer to my age who
had let let me know, you know, you have purpose. Actually,
God has unbelievable plans for you, and you're so valuable,
(10:32):
You're worth so much. It's one thing to hear that
from adults when you're a kid, because you think.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
You're of course, I am that.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, keep it coming, you're old. Yeah. But I don't
know if I had had a peers when I was
a teenager who had had the boldness to come up
and shake some sense into me and say, hey, we're
sisters in this. We've got a bold commissioning. Let's go
(11:01):
be about God's business and break the mirrors that are
just in front of us constantly. Let's focus on something else.
I think that would have been amazing. I unfortunately didn't
really have that type of bold community around me. Hints now,
why I do what I do of trying to get
in with younger girls and get him to rise up
(11:22):
together in community to say we are women, and we
are beautiful, and we are powerful and strong and mighty
in the Lord. We don't have to be, you know,
the greatest sexual tease to be a powerful female. I
think it would have gone a long way.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
And I was gonna say, I think it's the vision
that you have to have to know that God said
that you're worthy, that God said that you are my daughter,
and I love you and I have something amazing for you.
There's a woman that I've made you to be, and
he's calling us into being those people. He's calling us
out of darkness and bondage and all these things that
(11:58):
would keep us out of that destiny of you know,
a woman who is powerful in her sphere of influence
and who's just operating in all the blessings and all
the things that He's built to help you just spread
his message and spread his love to people around you.
And that for me is something that you know, it's
never been about staying away from sin or staying away
(12:19):
from you know, she needed to shield myself from certain things.
It's always about chasing after what God has set before us.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Do you think that community, like what Mo was saying,
do you think that community is important enough that it
would steer a young girl away from having to go
out to define herself. Do you think that community is
enough definition for her that she doesn't then need to
seek it elsewhere?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah? Absolutely, I think that. I think there's so much
power in being able to look over to your peers
and say, you know, we share this in common. Or
she's like me and she's walking in freedom. She's like me,
and she's you know, not needing to run to these things.
She's she's whole. Being able to look over and see
someone who's like you and being able to relate to
that is that is such a powerful thing for me
(13:06):
in particular, that that's what made celibacy real to me
because I wasn't. I wasn't saved until I was almost
twenty three.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And I now, like twenty four and a half.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I am so much twenty I'm twenty nine now, so
I've been saved for just over six years. And that
was one of the first things that changed. Is that
just walking in purity and walking in celibacy. And it's
crazy because you know, I turned to my roommates and
my friends who were there, and I was like, I
feel so powerful, Like I actually you feel powerful. You
(13:40):
feel there's just amazing thing that happens when you step
into who God has called you to be. And you know,
without hearing that from people, without hearing someone next to
your sister say, oh my goodness, there's so much there's
so much power and amazing. You know, life in this
and walking in this way, that's what calls you to freedom.
That's what gives you the boldness to step out, and
(14:00):
you know, in community, we can't be afraid to share
those things or to share what we're walking through or
share what we've broken free from, because that, you know,
gives permission to others that they can break free as well,
and that hey, this sounds crazy or this seems radical.
It seems so radical to me to like, well, I'm
not going to have sex again until I'm married. That
was such a radical thought until I saw other people
(14:22):
walking like that and it's like, well, she can do it.
I can do that too.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah. Well, listen, freedom looks good on you girl. It
looks good on you too, mo. I think it looks
good on all of us. As a matter of fact,
we're going to take a quick break and we'll be
back in just a few minutes to talk more about
this important topic and about how we can all be free.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
This is going to be an incredible experience where we
all get to see what it's like to experience God's
unfailing love. We are incredibly loved, incredibly valuable, and incredibly capable.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Of blowing it.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
That's why we are in the Book of Hoseiah. I
want you to experience it.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I want you to be able to enjoy it. I
want you to be able.
Speaker 6 (15:18):
To taste and see that the Lord is good. If
you're lost The message of Hoseiah is that God will
find you. If you're ashamed, He'll cover you. If you've
wandered off, He'll come get you. If you have given
up on him, he is not going to give up
on you. If you have found yourself in change and
(15:39):
in slavery, and you don't know how you got there,
he will buy you back and give you freedom. That's
the incredible scandal of God's love. He would do whatever
it takes to restore us.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
That kind of unfailing love will change everything.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Welcome back, Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
We are having a great.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Conversation, a strong conversation. If you've got a teenager, a
young woman in your life, you're going to want to
pull her clothes, make her sit down. Watch just a
little bit. We have some strong, incredible free women that
are on our program today that are helping us to
just kind of get some clarity on the issue of promiscuity, pornography,
just sex in our culture, and how we can really
(16:36):
just know that our power as women is not found
in our sexuality, but it is found in Christ. So
these two incredible women have been helping us with that,
and I want to ask you a little bit about
that Fifty Shades of Grace is the name of the
program because of fifty Shades of Gray. Did you find
(16:56):
in your role at teen Vogue did you find any noticeable,
sort of measurable effects that you were guys were able
to detect at all in the lives of young women
as a result of this phenomena of a book and
movie that just sort of ran rampant across the culture.
Was there anything that you guys detected and what your
readers wanted and what they were asking for and what
(17:17):
intrigued them.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I think as far as Teen Vogue, you know, we
definitely content wise, we steer clear of things that can
you know, walk that fine line. So I think as
far as the content of the magazine, that's something that
we have not delved into. But as far as like
a work culture, yeah, I could definitely say that it's
you know, being a having to kind of have a
(17:41):
pulse finger to the pulse of pop culture. You know,
that is something that everyone's talking about, everyone's going to
see it's.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Very non addressed, and how do you not address it
in a magazine like Teen Vogue when it's what everybody's
talking about.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I think, you know, to a certain to a certain level,
they respect the line of you know, the the age
gap that we have with readers and knowing that certain
things we just are not going to address. Yeah, but
I think you know, as far as kind of the
heavier poll is to are you joining in those conversations
when they're being had at work? You know, are you
allowing kind of the curiosity to pull at you and
(18:19):
you know, are you going to go see it because
it's what everyone's talking about. Are you going to go
see it to be a part of this this culture,
in this moment and this you know, conversation on social media.
And I think you know, to a to a certain extent,
it's important that you know, we as as Christian as women,
we put a stake in the ground and say that like,
I'm not crossing this line. This is something that I'm
not going to be a part of. And I think
(18:41):
it's important to have that vision for you know what
you know that God's calling you to, what life He's
he's calling you to to lead and what light? And
you know He's calling you to be and decide ahead
of time what things that you're going to take part
in and what things you're not and if this is
something that you know, once you predecided it's something I'm
not gonna do with, something I'm not going to take
part in. There's such power in that, and you don't
have to continue to make that decision. As you know,
(19:03):
the book is out and other movies out and there's
a conversation about it, and now you know once you
hadn't draw that line.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, okay. I want to talk a little bit about
the steak in the ground that you talked about, though, Sheena,
because you told us in the earlier segment that you
did put a steak in the ground in your own life.
What did it look like for you to come from
living a certain way, indulging in certain things, enjoying your
life in the way you chose to then, and then
(19:28):
becoming a Christian and choosing that you were going to
not do away with your sexuality forever because sexuality is
important part of every woman's life, but that you were
going to kind of corral that part of your life.
It's not like it's just an easy thing to do,
especially living in the environment that you're living in. So
what did that practically look like for you? What parameter
(19:49):
did you have to put in place to begin to
walk in this purity that you wanted so much for
your life.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So I was actually in a long term relationship for
three years at the time when I saved. And it's
crazy because that sex was the thing that I put
up as the wall and in between, you know, me
and God. And I've been going to church and I'd
been getting closer and I felt like, maybe a couple
of weeks before that day when I made that decision,
(20:15):
I heard and understood the Gospel for the first time
in my entire life, and I understood all the freedom
that He gave us. And that's when it started changing
my heart that how could I do these things? How
could I How could I just walk away from now
knowing all the freedom that He's giving us. And one
day I broke down and the words came flying out
(20:36):
of my mouth, I have to stop having sex. And
that was actually my salvation moment. In that moment, that
was the moment I stopped running. That was the moment
I stopped fearing that I had to protect my relationship.
I had to protect this guy that I thought was
gonna be my husband. It's obviously not.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
What did you lose him over this? Issue, there were.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
A number of things. The very next day, I went
to him and I said, I'm so sorry. I'm so
sorry this affects you. I'm so sorry that I'm changing
my part of the bargain in this deal. I'm so
sorry that I'm the one changing. But I can't do
this anymore. And and that's awesome. And I don't know
what's gonna happen to our relationship. I don't know if
you're still my husband.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
What was his response.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
His response was that he was supportive and yeah, like
twenty four hours yet, Yeah, and I and I had
to and I had to be really clear with here's
what here's what we're gonna do, here's what we're not
gonna do. Yeah, And quickly it became okay, here's what
everything we're not gonna do, because it's it's a slippery
slope and a gray area is you can't. So I
made it very black and white. And God is faithful
(21:41):
because regardless, God was like, okay, well he's not your husband.
So he just went to work and moved everything out
and that relationship broke up quickly, and it's for the better.
It's it's amazing because he's not the person you know.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And then after that relationship, did it become easier for
you then or did you still have to put parameters
in place to make sure that you say it.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Became easier because the immediate threat is gone and now
it's as I said, it's deciding ahead of time. I
am not going to go past these levels. This is
where I draw the line. I will not go down
that path with someone. And then that way, like you know,
having a great area, having an area where you're reasoning, now,
that's such a dangerous territory. Yeah, keep it black and white.
(22:23):
This is what I will do. This is what I
will not do. This is how we'll honor God. And
when it gets to a certain point, you shut it
down and it does happen.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
And I think that everybody needs to be aware of
the courage that it takes to make that decision, especially
when you're like you were, in a relationship where things
had already been been experienced and you're having to bravely
go to a person and say, hey, I've made this
decision and this is what we're going to do. This
is what we're not going to do. It takes courage,
and it always it doesn't always pan out positively, like
(22:50):
everybody's not going to applaud you and be okay, and
the relationship is going to work out. It could be
that you're going to lose this person that you care
about very very much because they're not on this journey
with you. But that is a choice that you made
and it doesn't look like you're suffering from that choice
at all.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
My friends, I think I cannot tell you how much
you know. After the fact, it I felt like I
got all of me back. I felt like, no man
is ever gonna have power over me, No man is
ever gonna have a piece of me. I will never
have to live with this. There's this terrible struggle going
on while I was trying to do that and trying
to run away from God at the same time. It
(23:25):
was too much and knowing just the the the peace,
you know, and my soul afterwards after that that no
longer having that tension between, you know, fighting between what
I wanted my life to be and what I know
God was calling me to, and it's like, ok God's
God's gonna win in this. God's gonna win.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
So okay, So Moa, I have a question for you,
as a married woman. Now, Yes, I wanna know, cause
I'm just I'm hearing little sweet shea over here talking
about how she's saying, you know, I'm not I'm not
gonna let a guy have kind of power over me
like that. I want to know, as a married woman, now,
how you balance this important perspective that you're your own woman,
(24:06):
and that you are coming into your own freedom, all
that stuff that's all great. How do you balance that
with the reality that as a married woman, in some sense,
you were voluntarily Now you're having to shift that mindset
just a little bit so that you are voluntarily in
a relationship where he is the leader. I am submitting
myself to his leadership, not to be a doormat to
(24:28):
be walked over, but because I know that this is
the kind of the order that the Lord. How do
you shift your mindset? Because it doesn't just happen when
you say I do You don't say I do it
all of a sudden just want to be submissive. You
have to kind of set yourself up for that. So
how do you be a powerful, strong single woman, live
the adventure with God, enjoy being alone, all that great stuff,
but not walk down that path so much that when
(24:50):
the time comes for you to join your life with another,
you're not willing to voluntarily do that easily do that.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I love that question. I love it because I very much,
just like Sheena, was, you know, boldly walking in this
independence with the Lord and guarding my heart, guarding my body.
And it's interesting because I thought, well, sure, when we
say I do, a switch will flip and I will
you know, suddenly fully be able to give of myself.
But the tears on my honeymoon sort of proved that
(25:19):
theory wrong because I realized all this bondage that existed
that I didn't even know. I was, you know, trying
to be performance based, you know, and I had never
let myself with other guys go all the way. So
therefore I had the bit of this barrier up in
my own heart and body, with my own husband to
ever fully surrender every every.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Piece of me.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
And it just.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
We were a hot mess on that cruise. It was
interesting and he is the most gracious man and drew
me in. I mean, the food was so good, but
that made it like a hotter mess, you know, because
some of the it's a long story, but you know,
he was he was a man who drew me in
and for the very first time I understood that sex
(26:04):
was like this holy threesome between the husband and the
wife and Jesus, and he was Jesus is a very
real part of this equation, this marriage, not just in
the vows of you know, the day to day. You're
the man, I'm the woman. This is what you do,
this is what I do. But in all of it,
including the sexual relationship, including everything, we became one flesh.
(26:28):
And so what that means is that you know, sex
is is truly an act of worship with that one flesh.
Which is why it's so out of whack when you're
out of marriage, because it's just not it's not the
right type of worship. It's like keys are off or something.
But when you are truly like in worship and marriage,
(26:50):
following becomes a gift to have a strong leader you trust,
to be able to surrender yourself to him, and sometimes
sex to be amazing and intimate and romantic, and sometimes
you're laughing the whole way through, and sometimes you just
really don't want to, but you know your husband does
need that, and you surrender and it ends up I mean,
(27:11):
at all, it's just this beautiful dance you learn that's
awkward at times, and it's you know, funny at times,
and it's amazing at times. But it's this true act
of leadership and submission that that's really beautiful. And when
it's with a husband who you know, honors you and cherishes,
cherishes you and sees you as a gift and a
(27:34):
prize and treats you right and well, following becomes a
treasure comparable to following the Lord. Yeah, you follow a
good man, a good husband who's seeking the Lord as well.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And it.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Knocked my independence out pretty quickly when I when I
got that gist, I liked it.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 6 (27:56):
It's true?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Are you ready to cry on your whole I'm just thinking.
I'm just thinking. You're in a very You're in a
very interesting place in your life. You're a young woman,
but you're very successful. You're living this sort of progressive
independent standing for righteousness, God, all this stuff. But I'm
also very successful on my job. You're like this, you know,
you're you're one of the kind of statistical images of
(28:18):
women who statistical and not a negative statistic, but statistical
in the sense that you're one of these very successful, independent,
doing it on our own kind of women. And I
think in general, for women that are single and are
doing it on their own, it can sometimes be hard
to sort of meld that into a relationship. I don't
I mean, I haven't even asked you if if marriage
(28:39):
is something that you desire, but it is so so
do you think that it's going to be hard for
you to bring all of this success and independence and
all that good stuff underneath the covering of a husband.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
No, because and first of all, I think it's it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, it is, really, that's described it beautifully. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I I absolutely hope that marriage is in my future.
I hope that the Lord has a man for me.
I pray for it all the time.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
You know, we got cameras, I can put a call
on flu it up.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
But I you know, I think independence is it's a
very interesting concept when you're when you're a believer. Because
I am absolutely submissive to the Lord. I am absolutely
so you want to oh absolutely yeah. And and I'm
absolutely not walking alone. I'm not just out there rigid
and like power through it. I've I've lived with my
(29:46):
two best friends, I've got a community of women that
we've been building over the years, and God has just
blessed us with.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
You go to a great, amazing Liberty Church in New
York is awesomebody's amusing.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
And you know th there are checks and balances there,
there are There are people that I've allowed to speak
into my life. There are people whose lives that you know,
I speak into and and we we lock arm in
arm and we do life together and all things. And
I think there's absolutely gonna be a shift when that's
you know, when I'm one with a man. Yeah, hopefully
(30:17):
one day an awesome man, you know, But I think
you know, I it it is planning and preparation and
all things that you know. I love that I I
live with two girls who they you know, we see
each other through thick and thin and through awful times
and when we're our worst and our best and and
all of that and and so you know, I I
(30:40):
absolutely cannot wait until one day, you know, for it
to be marriage. But it's amazing to to understand and
to walk in freedom and wholeness as an individual and
know that even if that's not something that's ever it
that God ever has in the cards for me, that
I'm not waiting to be to be whole and to
be one, or waiting for for someone and validate me,
(31:00):
or to give me power and a certain thing you.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
That's good, That is awesome, That is awesome. This has
been great, It has been great. And listen, freedom really
does look good on these girls. It looks good on me.
It can look good on you too, no matter what
you're struggling with, whether it's this issue we've been talking about,
or it's something else that's just kind of got you
shackled and feeling a lit l a little bit like
you're not able to live fully and freely and without
(31:25):
fear of consequences and regrets. Listen, you don't have to
stand for that in your life, not one more day.
You can be the woman, uh that God has called
you to be, and you can start today. You don't
even need to wait till tomorrow. Freedom can be yours today,
and so I'm gonna be uh praying to that end.
I hope that you have enjoyed our program today, cause
we sure have enjoyed having this conversation. Please join us
(31:46):
again next time.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
Annoying
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