Ep 294: WWE Money in the Bank Recap. New World Champ Crowned on Raw. AEW Announces a Huge Match for All In.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
What's up everybody. Welcome back to Pro Wrestling after Hours.
I'm Michael Carlisle, joined us always by Micah Franco.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Micah was shaking, man, man, what's shaking is Kyle Fletcher's head?
But I think it's because of Itchy Bond and La Casa. Really,
I was enthralled by that entire moment the minute I
saw it, and unlike the rest of the Internet, I
couldn't say mister Iguana, yes.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
I thought I thought it was Green dust I thought, like,
oh shit, tk's done released Dustin and he's already back
in WWE.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Was looking like the Jim Carrey version. It was not
the Riddler. It was the Jim Carrey version.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Uh not my first time seeing mister Iguana, so I
wasn't totally caught off guard. I like him a lot,
but that's just me.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
He's okay. I if the Internet was not going crazy
about him, I would not have brought him up. I
was more impressed by Lindsay Dorado having the match with
the plush Plushy. I mean, he's the one that put
in the work. Mister Iguana only landed the Iguana on
his shoulder like one time. The other times he just
kind of threw it around and then picked him up.

(01:21):
It wasn't even that cool of a trick. It was
pretty cool the one time it worked.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, don't be a Mystery Iguana hater. What is wrong
with you? Micah?

Speaker 2 (01:31):
My top four luchadors are like the Kingo And then
after that it kind of drops down out of the
Triple A realm. It's just kind of where I'm at
right now with the Triple A product.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
I don't well, I don't disagree with you on that,
but I mean, you gotta shit all over mister Iguana.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'm not trying to shit on him, I said, I
just don't see the craze that the rest of the
internet felt when they when they laid their eyes on him.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
I just most of those well, and I'm sure you've
seen clips of him before. You have to bet. My
guess is most people had not, so it was just
completely something completely new to them. So I get it, like.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
For Corey Graves not calling everything a topek on hero.
Then my second parvorite part of the show was every
time he set a move wrong in Spanish, Conan having
to recorrect him on what the proper terminology was.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I see now this is awkrud because I was going
to compliment Corey Graves.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
There were times where he was really good on the mic,
and then there were times he messed up in Conan
had a correct sure, so he knew the wrestler's backstories
and histories really well. But the maneuvers messing up in
Conan having to jump in and correct him made me laugh.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well that's why Conan was there. A yeah, but but look,
keep in mind Graves being more accustomed to doing color
commentary and lately in a three man booth on INNX,
he doing color commentary to be in that position doing
play by play, which is completely different from being a

(03:02):
color analyst. Yes, all right, maybe screwed up some move
names and all that. All in all, I thought he
did a good job. But yeah, I get where you're
coming from. I chuckled a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, it just stuck out to me. Other than that,
VI Kingo is awesome, Like I already knew that that
was about it. Chad Gables really freaking solid. We knew that.
Ever since I was all about him shooshing everybody, I've
thought he's been a a diamond in the rough, starting
to get some exposure.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
So yeah, I enjoyed the show. It didn't really seem
to me though, like a show that was designed to
get the Triple A guys over to the American audience.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
No, it got the WWE guys over to the Triple
A audience. Notice that as soon as we were wondering
l w Lagato Dave Fantasma, who's going to get more
and when they say at the beginning of the match, oh,
Logatto da Phantasma is gonna go to Triple Mania to
challenge for their attack team titles, like, oh shit, they
have to win because now we have to know they're good.

(04:07):
Not to mention the uh. I know there's only so
many descriptive words in the English language, but the redundancy
of fan favorite lucador. Every time someone from Triple A
came out, Conan described them in the same fashion as
a beloved luchador. I feel like there was a lack

(04:29):
of creativity in that part of informing the audience. Everyone
was described as the same and that's just not suited
to different characterization.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
I agree with you on that. I'm not one hundred
percent sure that Conan's mission and Corey Gray's mission were
the same.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Look.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Obviously, Conan was there to give background on the Triple
A guys, But keep in mind Conan's or was anyway
the damn booker for Triple A. He like, if WWE
was more concerned about getting WWE talent over with the
Triple A audience than getting Triple A guys over with

(05:08):
the American audience, Conan might have been more concerned with
the any of the Triple A guys over. I agree
with you, though he could have been a little more
varied in his descriptions in what he said in an
effort to do that.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Now, I don't want to knock Iguana, but again, everybody
besides vikingo Iguana a bit and Octagon with what happened
with Dominic Mysterio, I don't know how many of their
talents really got over or made a huge impression. How

(05:43):
great of a night this was on that Triple A
benefiting side or excuse me, afternoon morning.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Well, what I think is eventually going to happen is
Triple A Mexico. The guys WWE really wants will be
on one of the three US rosters, and everybody else
will be down in Mexico. So yeah, like Vikingo. You're
probably gonna see him somewhat frequently between NXT RAW and SmackDown.

(06:14):
Mister Iguana probably a pretty safe bet. Hell, you saw
on Raw that they did a vignette for him. You're
going to see him on nxt W do Raw and
SmackDown a lot more. Uh, Octagon Junior, you're probably not
gonna see until next year's World's Colyde. And unless you
watch the Triple A product.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
You know, and yeah, let's not remind me about Conam
being the booker being the man just they're directly responsible
for keeping prestige around Alberto al Patrone single handedly.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah you yeah, Oh no, I enjoyed the World's Clyde show.
I was not able to watch it live. I do
go back and watch little later. I mean it was fine.
Maybe this isn't fair, but we've seen a ton of

(07:11):
lucha's in ae W. A lot of these guys we
haven't seen with any regularity here in the US. VIKINGO.
Obviously we have, uh and that there's some exceptions, but
but but he's one that that pops out. What were
your thoughts the Triple A guys compared to I guess

(07:31):
more than the CMLLL guys that that we see pretty
regularly in ae W.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
I think they're on the same level of each other.
I I feel like there is advantage to variety that
you see with the ae W shows where we get
Luca in corporation. I think here that I'll say what
I said in the text message chain. Ray Phoenix doesn't
come off feeling a special as he once did when

(07:58):
you see him in a in a scene where there
are multiple guys able to do the same thing as him, right,
So I think that watching the entire event, it shows
the generational talent that Vi Kingo is. How he sticks
out and looks special. You understand why Iguana feels different.

(08:21):
Everyone else to me got lost in the mix and
it felt fine, but nothing stuck out where we want
to say we want to see him again. And it's
kind of the same thing we run into with the
CML MEL guys. We're outside of Ruge has Jay Zero.
I feel like Commanders rope work is a bit different,
and we know that Bandito size, but a lot of redundancy,

(08:43):
a lot of similarity, a lot of fine Luca for
the style, just no one that breaks out.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
I wonder if that's more of a triple a thing,
or if WWE's like, look here in America, we think
a lucha's we think a raymas stereo. Everybody needs a
light raymi. Now, Iguana, you're different. You're fucking green, green
dust all that. But by and large, we like our
luches a certain way. If you're gonna wear a mask,

(09:09):
wear the tree like you know, again, maybe it's not
fair to career beast mortas completely different mask, bandido, different
style of mask, think, you know, doing things to stand
out a lot of what we saw on Saturday. Anyway,
you're wearing a mask, you could have been any mask
luchador quite yeah, possibly.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
And then there was also just points like and I
brought up before Praga and Psycho Clown's been around for
a long time, guys there. Yeah, they're not in the
prime of their career. That's the other problem. They're getting
the exposure at the worst points for them, at their
you know, retirement stage.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
That got us to later Saturday afternoon WWE Money in
the Bank.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Just wow, How the heck was that show so long?
And felt like not that long? And I'll tell you
guys right away, and I'll answer my own question again
when you have like sixteen entrances between the tag matches
and the money in the bank matches and everybody gets
their own extended entrance, it adds love.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
I get that it's a ladder match and all that,
How the fuck can you just stand there with all
that outside interference going on? If you're a referee, you're like,
it's money in the main ladder match. What do you
want me to do? Disqualify somebody? Yes, that's exactly what
the fuck I want you to do. After about the
eighth faction came out in the men's money in the
bank ladder match, Oh Jesus Christ, let's just make it

(10:40):
a free for all. Empty the locker room, and whoever's
left standing in the inn can climb the ladder, who
grab the briefcase.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I'm still waiting for that to happen, for somebody that's
not in the match to win money in the bank
and for them to be like, the only rule is
you have to be in money in the bank. Well,
who the fuck's that that? No one's there was like
eight guys that weren't involved.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Like you said that if I run out and it's
not going to cause it disqualification and into the match.
Why the hell can I just climb up the ladder
and grab the briefcase?

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Makes perfect sense to me. I'm right with you. I
liked Solo trying to do everybody's emoji or attribute or
whatever it is their celebration, and that was quite funny.
Uh Solo Sokoa. I didn't have Dan Howse and attributes
and Solo, But that's the best shit he does is
make me laugh.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Solo might be on his way to to uh Solo, Well, yes,
but dressing in the good guy locker room if you will.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
I've told that he was. They expressed a need to
learn Japanese. How bad would it be for j. C.
Matteo to get signed to WWE to leave New Japan
to be told you're going with Solo to go do
a tour of pro wrestling? Noah, you get to know
the streets, you can go back. Is it okay because
you're making more money or you're like, what the fuck

(12:02):
happened in my life?

Speaker 1 (12:03):
I think you're okay with it.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
It's just an interesting possibility. I thought Penta did good.
Grande Americana's little mouse trap running up the ladder across
the other ladder everybody helping him.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
That was the favorable scene except for the shitty ass
sling shot into the ladder that he ran up. Yeah,
but I mean, look, we were in the latter parts,
no pun intended of the match, the latter the later
parts of the match when he tried to slingshot him
into the ladder, y'all know what I mean. Yeah, exactly
seth Rowan's wins, which I think was my pick. It

(12:38):
was the obvious pick, but the one guy who didn't
need it won it. Who all he's got to do
is come out and talk on a microphone for about
twenty seconds and he gets a title shot. He didn't
need it. But we might be setting up bigger and
better things for this Paul Hayman stable. So yeah, I

(12:59):
get it.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
That was all about Jacoba too and Solo Sakoa finally
coming to a head, and sure Jacob takes him out,
super kick him, screws him out of the winning get.
He was talking a bunch of shit behind back on SmackDown.
So and I'll come into a head now on that one.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
But if you remember when they when about Roman and
all that, you had the original implosion, the original bloodline implosion,
this one seemed more like a fart.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
There's so many implosions of fart plans.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
I agree, I agree, skipped around a little bit. Uh
Women's Icy title match. Becky Lynch defeats Lyra. She hits
the title, she makes line raisor Okay.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
I really desperately need Lyra Vckyrie to get new attire
because she's just begging to flash the WWE universe. This
is like the second or third time the whole little
class behind her neck has not worked and nearly exposed
her top side on a premium live event. And if

(14:03):
you don't know if anybody cares about her, yeah, okay,
fair enough.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
If there's one triple a lucha that WWE obviously doesn't
care about, it has to be Octagon Junior. Right. He
loses on Worlds Collide, we get an impromptu match.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Well didn't he went on Worlds Collide to get the
imprompt two match. I swear he's the one that scored
the pin.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
I thought they lost. He and Aerostar lost. Didn't they lose?
Oh no, no, no, I'm sorry that they were. They
were with mister Iguad. Yes, they were the one win.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Right from Luca to win. You're right, You're right, You're
right here, right, yep, that's what led to Dominic's I
think right.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
But so all right, he gets to be on the
big premium live event and Dom squashes him in about
three and a half minutes.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Dom squashed him. Dom looked tough, Dom squashed him.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
That was just that that was more about Dom, I
think than Octagon Junior though the purpose of that match.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
I also felt like he was too clunky, Like you
could see Dom's inexperience with Luta and that the two styles.
It was the first time two young guys working together,
and that was some clunkery that you see in Bengo halls.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
I would agree you're women's money in the bang ladder match,
Naomi gets the wind. Did you did you call that
last week? I don't remember, you know.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
I'd have to go back into it.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
I feel like you said either Naomi or Roxanne Perez.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yes, I think I did. Okay, So I'm like, I
don't want to take full credit because I thought both
were possibilities. But that's a good win for Naomi for sure.
To be relevant. I thought that Roxanne and Stephanie and
Julia are huge positives. For the women division. I did
have one thing that really stuck out that I didn't
like about the match. You remember the part where Julia

(15:47):
and rox Ande Fadees are powerfully piling ladders on top
of Julia and then Naomi is in the background pulling
the ladder in. And it wasn't the sneak oration that
allowed Naomi the opportunity, the sneakiness, the connivingness, sneakeration. It

(16:07):
wasn't that that allowed her to climb up the ratters.
It was the fact that all of a sudden Rocksanne
and Julia just both lay down. That was the worst
shit ever because you could literally see them put ladders
and then like, oh, yeah, we're supposed to go down.
We're both so exhausted for moving these ladders.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh by these big heavy ladders.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
That was the stupidest part of the match for me,
and it just really suck.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
So Taz, are you saying they were tired Jones.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Exhausted Jokes, exhausted Jones, Okay, exhausted Jones. But the two
code read some of the dual moves off of the ladders.
It was a good match. Naomi needs the push, so
I like that all the way around.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, I think Rhea was my pick, but she doesn't
need it. Yeah. I enjoyed it the main event, which
I didn't really understand why they booked it in the
first place. Yeah, even more confusing after Monday Night, which
we'll get to in a moment. But Cody Rojuso beat

(17:07):
John Cena Logan Paul This one most notable for me anyway,
because a mystery hooded figure slides in and attacks John Cena,
pulls the hood down, pulls off the mask. Oh my god,
it's our truth. Our truth is back. He got fired
and in a span of seven days he's been rehired

(17:29):
and is interfering in the main event.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Yeah. His contracted ran up, he had
been released. He ghosted WWE, supposedly on a couple of
contract renegotiation calls, because supposedly the upheaval on the internet
did tingle some feelings with WWE. Heard a rumor that
Nick con got involved in Ron killings. Is back to WWE.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
More on him in a second, because I do want
to talk a lot about him. But so Cody and
Jay get the win, presumably setting up Rhodes sena Uso
Logan Paul at SummerSlam. You still got a ways to
go to SummerSlam. But after what happens on Monday, if

(18:15):
we are getting Jay Uso Logan Paul at SummerSlam, ain't
no fucking belt involved? You know? This is like to me,
the Saturday Night's main event with our Truth and Sena
made no sense in having that match. I kind of
question why haven't this match in the first place, But
certainly after what happened on Monday, I'm just scratching my head.

(18:36):
Why the fuck did we do Cody and Uso versus
Sena and Logan Paul.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
I got a better one for you. Okay, why did
Gunther lose at WrestleMania to jay Uso? It feels like
jay Usa, we didn't know if he was world title caliber,
was he world champion material? He won the belt, he
proved to be, and then we took the belt away.
A lot of things have made Gunther look less than
and I I feel like WWE Creative is in a

(19:03):
continual cycle of chasing their own tail to put people over.
We got Ja over, shit, now we need to get
Gunther back over because we didn't have Gunther over And
I was confused by how this played out.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
A couple things here. This is always seen as the
less than belt, regardless of who holds it, So that's
part of it. I think, all right, you put the
battle Usso, Gunther wins it back. Gunther's now a two
time champion, Usso gets his first title win. So theoretically

(19:44):
you've established him not only as one of the most
popular guys in the company, but when you put him
in that main event with a title on the line,
he could absolutely win it. Now, if you want to
tell me the flaws and all that logic, I get it,
but I truly believe that's w we's thinking here. Also,
the next Saturday Night's main event is in Atlanta. They

(20:09):
haven't announced it yet, but you can almost take it
to the bank that Bill Goldberg's retirement match will be
on Saturday Night's main event and will probably be the
main event. It'll certainly be on that show. The last
time we saw Bill Goldberg on WWETV, I don't know
if you remember, it was one of the pay per
views premium live events. Remember who he was drawing back

(20:30):
and forth with.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Unfortunately, come there, there you go. You hear my excitement?

Speaker 1 (20:37):
No no, and that's fine, But that probably played a role.
I wouldn't be shocked if if us so by the
time we get to Summer Slam, wasn't getting a rematch
and maybe even winning it. Maybe not, But all those
things I think played a role in the title change.
Now I've seen a lot of well, why didn't they
have a title match at the premium live event and

(20:59):
do it there? To me, that's old WWE way of
thinking when you actually had pay per views versus premium
live events. In a pay per view world, you would
absolutely have done that on the pay per view and
done the title change there. But in the premium live
event world, especially one that's money in the bank and

(21:20):
it's featured with the two money in the Bank matches,
and then you've got your champs in a tag match,
you don't have to do that. And that further says
to the fans, well you gotta watch Raw because anything
can happen when we book a title match, you know,
even the title Jay. It's one thing if the women's
I see title or US title, or even the men's

(21:42):
for that matter, change hands. But when you see one
of the world titles changing, you go, oh shit. Next
time they book one of these on raw. I got
to make sure I'm watching Netflix because I can't miss this.
It feels like you pulled the rug out under USO
awful quick. But my guess is this was I'm not

(22:03):
gonna tell you. They absolutely said money in the bank,
you know, coming out of many money in the bank.
USO was dropping the title back. But my guess is
this wasn't going to be a terribly long rain for
Jay anyway, whether or not they already knew money in
the bank, we're gonna switch it back.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
But I yeah, I for someone that doesn't care about yeating,
he was over. The fans are going crazy. It had
a lot of momentum. I think there was still more
legs to get out of it. And for someone that
felt that doesn't care for Gunther at all and then
felt like he was under service, like they did a
detriment to him, a disservice, I don't feel like there

(22:39):
was any kind of real strong build up back to
feeling this could happen. This kind of felt like if
you listen to MMA after hours, this is more surprising
than if than O'Malley pulling off the comeback. If he
would have pulled off the comeback, against dawallash Philly. This
just felt like left field, like this would have been.
This was Morab, This was excuse me, O'Malley versus Cheeto vera.

(23:03):
This was a hand picked deponent that I'm just gonna
run back over again and SOLIDI find my championship brain
against versus. We really thought Gunther was gonna take it.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
I think they were going surprise factor, but I agree
with you me personally. I didn't really get surprise factor.
I got wow, no build up at all, and they
do this.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, that was my thing too, not a wow.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I would also argue gump Thro maybe needs the belt
where Jay doesn't need it. People will still yeat and
go crazy when he comes again. Doesn't mean he shouldn't
have it, But Gumpter beating up Michael Cole and fighting
Pat McAfee on a premium live event that just doesn't
have the same ring as badass wrestling machine Gunther with

(23:51):
the belt, right.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
I agree with you fully, but he also deserves Jay
Uso creative jay USTI was doing shit. I don't care
if it was teaming with Cody Rhodes.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
He was around, say he.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Was doing stuff. I feel like Gunther didn't do enough
and it lost the steam on him as a champion.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
See, I don't think that about jay Uso. Like to me,
his title one was a letdown, But I don't blame
him much like I didn't blame again. That belt is
always seen as the less than belt, the belt that
Roman had that Cody currently has, or it actually Cody
doesn't currently have Sina currently has. You just can't see it, right, Yeah, See,

(24:32):
I can't see him, So I forgot. That's always seen
as the greater than belt. So I think no matter
who you're putting that belt on, you're you're automatically starting
at a deficit and trying to get them over and
have a successful reign because it doesn't come off as
important as the one that Sina currently has. That Cody

(24:56):
wants that whenever Roman comes back, look beyond, Roman ain't
coming back to challenge Gunther. You know, when he comes back,
he wants his belt, the belt, not the other belt.
So I think that's always going to be a problem. Well,
it doesn't have to be, but the way WWE books,

(25:16):
it's always going to be a problem. You could make
a concerted effort to make those belts feel equal. I
don't think they have the desire to do that for
whatever reason, and I don't think they ever will. But
so to your point, Sorry I got long winded there.
I agree with you on Gunph's first reign. Hopefully a

(25:39):
second was better. Yes, you had j and some tag
matches and all that, but I didn't feel like it
was a spectacular rain. It always seemed seen his belt
was more important and and you know, until WWE does
something about that. Again, not that's not an USO problem,
that that's not a guntherer problem. That's just a WWE problem.

(26:01):
You could have had Randy Orton run out and for
some walky way. Oh we're making Adam Pierce, we're making
it a three way blah blah, and Randy Orton wins.
It's still the other World belt. You know.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
I just felt like, yeah, there was some things in
there that I couldn't agree with. But as you brought
up John Cena looking at the promo on Monday night,
not the match. The match was fine, him and Logan,
Paul Cody, the interference, I guess we can get to that.
But the CM punk aspect of it, the John Cena
heal aspect. Do we hate John Cena or are we

(26:37):
just going along with this. I don't know if there's
real heal hate on John Cena, because as I look
at LA and the crowd and I thought to myself,
there's not a lot of purple shirts, and then they
started showing more in the crowd. I was like, oh no,
there's there's quite a few people's shirts. People are just
enjoying John Cena and just go live your best life.
I don't it feels like a inappropriate use.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
We're talking about from raw right the I just don't
feel like it. I think the fans won't to cheer him.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
They're just enjoying his last run. You're just watching him
on the plane.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Now, if you're an Internet wrestling fan, internet wrestling community,
and if you're listening to this podcast, chances are you are.
I think your view on this is different than if
you're a casual fan who will whatever WWE tells me,
that's what I do, or you know, and I'm not
knocking that either. That's just the easiest explanation. You're probably

(27:29):
buying into it, even though you still want to cheer him.
If if you're the latter, If you're the former, which
is more likely you are and you're like me. My
first thought was they're gonna ship the fans. The Internet
wrestling community is gonna shit all over see him Punk
when it's announced he's going to Saudi Arabia, because he
has been a complete asshole about that for years, calling

(27:53):
out WWE talent, telling the miz he could suck blood
money covered dick wrestling in Saudi Arabia and all that.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
All that changes when the check gets your name.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
So so what do we do to try to deflect
some of that heat from seeing Punk? We have the
dastardly John Cena set aside for a second. Everybody wants
to cheer him anyway, but we can't because he's a
bad guy. Tells Punk the only way he can have
a title match is to go to Saudi Arabia. Now

(28:26):
I thought Punk agreed to it a little too quickly.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
He jumped on it. Yeah, that wasn't even like, yeah,
I didn't understand what the hardship and the decision was
without the background right right, which because he jumped right
on it like the offer was the greatest thing he
ever saw.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
It was like a piece of Tony Khan, Like what
Tony Khan gets criticized for booking for the the the
internet wrestling fans and all that. My guess is n
of ww fans has no idea that Punk has been
adamant for years he would never go wrestle for blood money,
never go to Saudi.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
I mean meant like Sammy's aye the poster boy now
for going to Sadie.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Well again, at the end of the day, money talks.
But look, I'll say this for Sammy, he never publicly
called out other guys for doing it. Now, Punk was
either not wrestling or in another company when he was
doing it, so so.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
He was able to talk about his laurels before he sold.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Them, right. But yeah, I think this was, uh, well,
we got to get some of the heat off of
Punk that he's gonna get with when everybody finds out
he's going over there to wrestle. So Sena told him
this is the only way he can get a title shot.
How well that worked, man, that very debatable because again, yeah,
I think it was probably a little more confusing than

(29:42):
anything else to the majority of WWE fans. But like
when you saw that, that had to be your th
first thought, right, oh, scene is going to Punk's going
to get him some of that sweet blood money hypocrite, hypocrite,
Like again.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
We wait and look.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Whether all that's even fair or not for the purposes
of this conversation doesn't matter, because that already is it
will continue to be for a segment of the wrestling
fan base. The narrative coming out of this. If you've
been on social media, you've seen it. All that hypocrite.
I've seen at least fifteen different people retweet his tweet

(30:19):
to the Miz about sucking blood money covered dick in
Saudi Arabia and stuff like that from five or six
years ago, and.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
That does add a new aspect to I was told
to be the voice of the voiceless fifteen years ago. No,
you're you're the man of the money, and that's a
very good persona for you. You came back for big
money fights, big money matches, and that's exactly what you're
getting right now.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
This is and maybe this gets into something else, but
this is why I hate the tribalism in wrestling. Not
just that, but the other thing I don't. I'm sure
you've seen it, if you've been online, everybody pointing out that, oh,
seem punk just ripped off Hangman Pages promo from a
couple of years ago in Jacksonville about working for the

(31:05):
people and not for the millionaire and blah blah blah.
I would love to jump on board with that narrative.
He did not. Hangman did cut a promo that said
something about the people being his bosses, but other than
that reference, Punk's promo was different. My guess is Punk
had no recollection of Hangman Page ever ever doing that.

(31:30):
But my point is the tribalism and wrestling, well, you
like one company, you have to hate the other. You
can like what you want to like, dislike what you
want to like, but you get a lot of stupid
arguments that quite frankly, sometimes makes me not want to
be on social media looking at wrestling stuff.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Oh there's a lot of that that goes on. The
only thing now that I can hear is what you
just said that Cmpunk was adamantly against this and now
he's jumping on board because it benefits him well. And
it just speaks out more to me real quick that
entertainers need to learn to shut their fucking mouths in
that echelon because you never know who's gonna pay you.
You're sticking out again. Something you gotta understand the detriment

(32:13):
of what you're doing right now.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Sammy's ain situation was a little different, religious things, safety things, and.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
There's now a ceasefire between the tech price.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Right, Punk should, with the benefit of hindsight, kept his
mouth shut, or at least look you could speak out,
but maybe not tell the miz on social media to
suck up blood money covered Dick in Saudi Arabia because
you never know who you're gonna work for. Ye them,
And but by the way, see him, Punk is actually,
I would argue doing the right thing here. His bosses

(32:48):
wanted him to go to Saudi Arabia. This is where
he works. This is what I go do because they
signed my checks. That's what most of any of us
would do, whether or not some other religious safety concerns.
We would all do that. Your boss tells you do something,
you go do it. So I don't think Punk is
necessarily in the wrong for that, But it's hard to

(33:10):
spend it that you're not a hypocrite when you went
out of your way to spend massive amounts of time
criticizing people who were going over there to wrestle for
that quote unquote blood money.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
And it's it's it doubles down hard when his character
is this moral savior, he is the guy of the righteous,
he is the voice of the voiceless, and then going
to work for blood money. It does, it does speak
out it. It says that the cmpunk is the PGA.
You can say all this shit about liv golf, but

(33:43):
all of a sudden you're gonna take a private meeting
and think about joining forces together. That totally goes against
the whole campaign that you set forth on independently. So
we understand it's business, and that's where I said they
need to keep their mouths shut because business will change
the perspective very quickly.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Oh, no doubt about that. But yeah, it's anybody else
would do the same fucking thing because it's what you
do when you work. But look, I'm also I don't
have a lot of sympathy for punking this situation either,
because you kind of brought all this on your fucking self.

(34:20):
So yeah, there you go on that you bought in la. Oh,
I was about to ask you anything else, wwe whyse
you want to talk about? Yeah, there is one other
fucking thing, our truth, ron killings, the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
I'm surprised that he did not come back as Fireball
ron Killings.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
I'm just glad they didn't bring it back his K Crush.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Slim gym ron Killings. I mean they're marketing cash app
ron killing cash app rod Killings. I mean they are
slapping a freaking logo and selling everything. I'm surprised they
didn't sell his last name, the truth dot com, the
truth dot org, actually Ron Killings.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
I love that. It sure looks like we're gonna get
a lot closer to the TNA version of ron Killings
than either k Crush or Our Truth.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
I love how WWE TKO's budgeting magically changed after the
Internet uproared for like a week about the unfair treatment
or what they felt was the unfair treatment of Our Truth.
And I do not believe Triple Hs in the slightest
when he says this was always the planned guys.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Okay, it was not. And I think what he actually said,
and people ran with it it's the business or it's
show business or something like that. He didn't actually say
it was a work. I don't believe. But he's not
wrong in that his show business just like signing Pinta
and Ray Finnix from aaw That's part of the show.

(35:54):
That's part of the game. That's that's the way it works,
bringing Andrade back or Miro or who, that's all part
of the game. And for all you goddamnit tech first
of all, who cares. Ultimately, we're all gonna believe what
we want to believe. But for all you Internet detectives
out there, oh real, Ripley was wearing that new Ron
killing shirt on roll last week. First of all, that

(36:15):
shirts not fucking new.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
No, that's an old assh ago right there.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Pictures and videos online as well of our truth wearing
it back in February. Now, yes, they did put it
up on WWE shop after he made his return on Saturday,
but it wasn't a new shirt. Look if you're happy
Ron Killings is back, be happy.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
If you're not that ww told Ria Ripley to not
wear a Ron Killings T shirt on TV when he
was there.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
And then and then she wore it anyway in a
pre tape segment that they could have blurred out or
just said change the shirt or we're not using this.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
It's all at work.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, no, no, no, I don't think WWE had a
problem with anybody who was wearing ron Killing stuff or
said anything on social media or whatever. But if they're
that in tune with what the fans want, and one
night of people chanting we want truth or we want

(37:10):
our truth or whatever on raw is all it takes
to get your way in this world at SmackDown this week.
And are you guys who are there just chant we
want better quality, we want better quality. Maybe clap your
hands a little in there, because if it's that fucking easy,
I think we can make WWE into a juggernaut with

(37:32):
a few well timed chants. Now that it's not already
a juggernaut. But but for anybody who says, oh no,
aw is it for me? I think you can stomp
that in a fucking hurry with some well timed chance.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Congratulations, wrong Killings, You once again have a job and
at a pay rate that you feel you deserve. So
congratulations all the more for success.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Here's my concern for our truth, and it's nothing that
you might think it is. At his age with that airline,
he should not have been cutting off them dreads.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Oh this is the embracing the ball he is gonna
look like Arnold Schwartzenegger when he was mister Freeze.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Or as we speak, he is on his way to
see John Cen, his hair plug guy, and is going
to come back with a nice looking head of hair
with a with the hairline of a man twenty five
years younger.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Supposedly, it takes about a year five fish results to
fully come in. Yea, let's see what wrong Killings can offer.
And this just illuminates one of the things that I've
always thought about WWE. If you book guys that can
work and give them an opportunity in the spotlight, there
may be positive results. You don't have to micro manage

(38:49):
create everything and tell us that a Carrion cross or
a Our Truth isn't good or isn't usable.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
It also shows something I've been very adamant about it
being hard and next one impossible to do is change
people's perception of talent, because I would argue that for
ninety five percent of his WWE career, since leaving TNA
and coming back, the whole art Truth character has been

(39:19):
nothing but comic relief. Yes, I was, yeah, I was
debating whether or not to make a Eugene reference. I'm not,
but yeah, it just wasn't well. They've managed to get
him over like Rover and quite frankly, my first thought was,

(39:40):
I think it'd be really cool if he's the one
that beats Sina and then a week, a month later
or whatever, it loses to whomever. But point being getting
me to believe that the fucking fifty times twenty four
to seven champion whatever, the guy twenty four.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
To seven eleven ninety five south right.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
The guy talking to invisible people who thinks triple ah,
she's Champa that all of a sudden in the span
of that run in and more specifically Monday Night Raw,
I can buy look, maybe not beating a Cody or
beating a gun, but I can buy him in those matches.
If all, if all this had gone down before Saturday

(40:23):
Night's main event, I could look at Killings Sena a
lot differently than I did going into it. So it
does show you can change people's perception without them having
to go somewhere else, like like Ricochet in AEW He's
changed a lot of fans perception of him. I don't
think that could have happened if he had stayed in WWE.

(40:45):
He had to go somewhere else. Were he to go
back to WWE, you could look at him as more
of the ricochet we see now versus the one we'd
saw last time there. But all you had to do
was fire truth or let his contract run out and
then bring him back six later, and you completely change
people's perception of him. I think that's kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Oh, it's great, it's great, and it was. It was
an extreme case of having to change that perception by
you know, exposing themselves for never giving him a chance,
for undermining any of his star power, for only making
him comic relief. And everybody's like, hey, he could do
it if you gave him opportunity. They're like, well, frick,
if you want to see it, we'll do it. And
look so far, it's kind of a positive response. I

(41:29):
had somewhere else. I wanted to go with it, but
I lost it. So I'll just jump ahead to are
you so golly? Would you think either one of our
winners from raw will be King or queen winner? And
how do you feel about now? King and Queen means
a title shot at SummerSlam. Hell, we gotta fill up
two nights, Queen petees look for all.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
You're happy that.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
They're doing their own own heart tournament.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
No, but if I don't mind when I think there
are too many tournaments, I'll be honest. Both companies aw
Moore so for sure. But if I can tolerate those,
I can tolerate this. I just I don't care. Look,
this is probably more of a ME thing than a
WWE thing, so my apologies on that. But yeah, I

(42:23):
get a little bogged down, especially, I just I don't
like it, especially coming so all right, so we just
did the money in the Bank premium live event, and
now you can challenge for any title at any time.
Let's two nights later start at men's and women's King
of the Ring Tournament, where the winners of each get
a world title match. At least separate that a little bit.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
You know, if you hate when Tony Kahan does it,
you have to hate when WWE does it.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
And if you like look the other way as well.
If you're fine when Tony does it, you got to
be fine when WWE does it. I would just separate
it now again, schedules, Dick Tate when you do what
I would have split that up a little more so
you weren't coming right, off of money in the bank
into another gimmicky thing where the winner gets a title shot.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Well, you know the only thing that that sticks out
to me, I hear and I'm like King Gunther didn't
really do much and Queen's Alina had to turn into
Slasha Banks to be successful. So I got a bad
taste left in my mouth from our last King and
Queen of the Ring is micro.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
I would argue that the only person, not Jerry Lawler
who's it's just gimmick was the King and King. But
like King of the Ring winner who actually benefited from
being the King was Haku. King Haku.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah, King Owen was kind of cool. Yeah there were
there was only so many. But yeah, I don't know
how I feel about that or how I feel that's
gonna plan.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
How do you feel about this? As we transition over
to ae W that Tony combooked a better four hour
show than WWE does a three hour show. That's not
where I was gonna go with this. I'm not saying
you're wrong. Four hours on a fucking Wednesday night is
an awful long now. Look I get it, you weren't

(44:10):
and by the way, they're doing it this week as well,
you weren't running against the the WWE. Maybe you should,
but but I get it, and this was how you
had to do it. You couldn't do a Thursday night
Collision or a Friday night collision. So I get it.
But it's a long fucking time. And then after four hours, yes,

(44:33):
still have an overrun.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Who the main event of Collision?

Speaker 1 (44:36):
I don't remember. I have to I'll get to it
a second now. Look, I'll also say this if my
chief complaint is why are you giving us so much wrestling?
Tony Kahan? You know, pay per views are one thing,
but it's Thursday night or Wednesday Night's why are you
giving us so much wrestling, so much bang for our buck? Then?

(44:57):
Then how bad can it really be? But I'm just saying,
near the end of the second two hours of Collision,
I just wanted to go to bed. Man.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
I hear you, I hear you. I will not spoil
you on a Wednesday night. You're a weekend kind of gal.
I get it.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
I'm a weekend kind of guy. But but yeah, I
don't remember why the fun the main event was on Collisions.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Family versus Paragon.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Oh that was Kylou's family already have to look it up.
I remember that. I think, do we.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Have any because I missed it. I didn't expect the
overrun Daniel Garcia. You think he's gonna jump to the
Kylas family. He's gonna stab Adam call in the back.
What's going on there? Anything? Or is? Daniel Garcia is
a nice little pond.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
I think the best name for Daniel Garcia is to turn.
I but again, maybe that's just me.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
I thought he was going to turn and go to
the Hells family some point that night. It might overrun
the doubt the callous family with too many guys.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
Oh shit.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
I remember. The point I forgot earlier was after the
Mega Campione title and the TNA title and then the
King of the Ring and the Money in the Bank,
which are all really just enhancements, the same as the title.
I don't need to hear anybody ever say AEW has
too many titles, because wwe literally try to incorpose a
whole universe of shit. Okay, that was my whole point earlier. Yeah,

(46:25):
I don't mind more titles.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
I just mind one company, right, No, I know, I know,
but it's okay for another. Yeah. Meanwhile, the other companies
adding the titles left.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
And right, which I find it they're both fine.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, exactly, but make the titles mean something, and I
do think AW for the most part, does a good
job with that, and hopefully WWE will as well.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
A lot of the internet I talked about the end
of the show, a lot of people didn't like that
the four hour fighter Fest started off with the will
Osprey interview. Was that a sour point for you? As
I saw so many on the internet?

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Doesn't will Ospray start off every week of Dynamite or
if it ain't the very first thing you see, it's
the very first thing in the second segment?

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Yeah, pretty close. I'm gonna use so it's right.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
So I didn't.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
It didn't stick out stick out to me.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Now, what you would have liked to have done is
set up Ospray and Strickland for the end of the
fucking four hour show instead of doing it this week.
But I also get you. If you're doing him at
the beginning like that, that way you got plenty of
time bringing back out at the end. I don't know
that you needed in the first ten minutes of last

(47:39):
week's show to lay the groundwork for your main event.
For next week's show when you still have three hours
and fifty minutes plus your overrun to do it. But no,
I honestly I didn't bother.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Me new hairstyle. Thank you his missus?

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yes, who Wally AW hasn't announced that. She announced that
she is all Elee And if you have got Osprey
locked up and you want to keep him happy, sign
his wife too. I don't have a problem with that
at all.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
And treat to see if she can work. I know
that she has.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
If she can't, she can do the Ring of Honor stuff.
But before Dynamite and Collision.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
AWW even found a job for Finn Bowler's wife, so
I'm sure aw can slide in uh Wells's wife and.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
She can work. Now can't she work on that stage?
We'll find out. But yeah, no, no, I got no problems
with this at all. I'm actually surprised they didn't announce
that when they announced that Osprey was signing with AW
and that he was gonna be all Elite full time
because he has been going back and forth to be
with his family. So what I don't like now, if

(48:47):
you want to talk, if you want a nitpick, I
would have had Moxley and Brisco either main event, Dynamite
or the end of the show.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
I don't know, how is the World Champion doing going
on so early?

Speaker 1 (48:58):
That happens a lot on the TV shows, not on
the pay per views per se, but I don't It's
not my thing.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
But it does bother though in a way it's it's
it's not a huge stab, but it's a it's a prick.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
I enjoyed Tony Storm and Mercedes after the match stuff
the tag match itself with Storm and Mina Sirk. However's
Julia Hartsky Blue.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
It's fine.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Yeah, they think we're getting another tag match this week?

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Am I real quick? Going back one? Max Brisco? Am
I wrong to say that? Give some old you know,
Cactus Jack feeling matches, some w c W feeling kind
of from those. I just really like the chemistry of
those two working together. I think they have the same
similar style.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Honestly, and I think this is the biggest compliment I
can pay to to Brisco. It made me wish that
Ring of Honor in its heyday, before Tony body had
been more accessible. Don't get me wrong, I saw a
lot of the Brisco brothers. I saw a lot of
the Ring of Honor, But so many people didn't know

(50:14):
about the Briscoes, didn't know how crazy they both were,
how good they both were. And I think you're certainly
seeing it now with with with Mark Briscoe. But it
shouldn't have taken this long for everybody in aaw to
realize how fucking good he is, to the point where

(50:37):
I don't see it happening. But if Tony Kahan decided
he wanted to work in a short world title reign
for Brisco, I could totally buy into it.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
I think that we've been a lot higher on brisco
than a lot of other people. His work was phenomenal.
That stretcher match, back double or nothing was amazing. This
just continued for me, a real strong months of work
from mister Brisco. Like you said, okay, title match, what's

(51:08):
gonna happen afterwards? The bigger deal with Miss Monet and
Tony Storm?

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Serious question because without looking up, I don't know who
the fuck are the Trios champions.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
It is the Ops, it is Joe and another guy
on my shirt over here.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
She bought it. That's right. Thank you. If you're not leaning,
if you're not working towards Mike Bailey, Kevin Knight and
Commander challenging for the trios titles. Can we stop having
some combination of them either wrestle as a tag team
or all three of them as a trios every fucking week.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Well, we're leaning into Mike Bailey and Kevin Knight. Uh,
I think to become a tag team and go against
the Hurt Syndicate. I wonder what happens here though, when
you have the trios match coming up and it feels
like the Hurt Syndicate should just roll through this half
Luca Contingent.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Agreed, which is a little weird that they would even
book this based on how you've been treating Bailey and
Knight and Commander. It just seems like you're setting them
up to get destroyed this week by the Hurt Syndicate.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
We hurt people. I guess that's what Tony Storm is
about to do. You build them up just to break
them on down. I'm still telling you right now. I
don't know if you believe me or not. Max Caster
and Anthony Bones are gonna get back together.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
I hope they do, and I hope it happens after
Bowens gets his ass beat by Kyle Fletcher on Dynamite
this week.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
It's gonna get a lot closer. I believe they're both.
We saw the initial success and now we're seeing a
deflation of the five tool player castor has had no success.
Billy almost looks fed up with Bowens. I think we're
gonna get a reforming of the claim, if not at
all in by all out, they need each other.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
I can book this if Tony Kain's interested, and I
can make people be excited about the acclaimed and be
excited for their first few Oh fuck it, well, we'll
do it right here. So something happens in one of
Max Caster's challenges, and for reasons that aren't entirely clear,

(53:30):
dumb luck. More than anything, Bowens is the one who
stops the beat down, turns around, walks off. Bowens is
doing one of his matches after talking shit about being
five tool this, five tool that, and is getting his
ass beat and Billy's like, fuck this, sons come out
here and beat the fuck out of this guy. I

(53:52):
hitch my wagon to the wrong member of the Aclaimed
and the guns come out and they beat the hell
out at Bowen's and they're pounding found it. All of
a sudden, the music hits. Here comes Max cast to
save Bowen's chase off the ass Boys. You've got Billy
with his sons, which after establishing them, I think he

(54:14):
really liked to be with them. I think they purposely
kept them apart to let them kind of develop on
their own. At this point, it's time to put them together.
And then you've got the Acclaimed back, which is what
we all want. Anyway. People are actually cheering for Max
despite this horrible ass gimmick, so you want to like them.

(54:35):
You had the emotional acclaimed reunion going after Daddy Ass
and those dastardly ass boys. You've elevated the Ass Boys,
the guns. I'm sorry, and uh, the Attlainmer are back
together and I don't have to see the best wrestler
Alive or the five tool dumb fuck? Well what the
five tools? Super? Sorry?

Speaker 3 (54:54):
Well?

Speaker 2 (54:55):
What how are they?

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Five tool player? Again? I get it you. I want
to be stars. You're better off together. That's how you
do it.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
I'm with you, I'm in for it. That sounds much
better than what's going on. There's a little bit of
separation in the tag team division. You got FDR on
one side, we've got the Hurt Syndicate on the other,
and we've got nothing in the middle, and they both
feel like they're fighting less than competition. So you need
to add in the acclaim.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
I think we can all agree. Aw not that they
weren't featuring Lucas anyway, because they have been Lord, we
all know that. But they have made a concerted effort
to out Luca WWE and the whole Triple A thing
and all that. I think they've done a really damn
good job at it. I'm curious what you think about that.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Though commanders look really good. You finally started to utilize
uh la faccion and gabrinoble, which if you didn't know,
in gabernoble is ungovernable. Uh see, yeah, yeah, that's that's
finally you know what a ex caliber let us know
his translation. Thank you there his Corey greatest impersonation ungovernable

(56:09):
with Jones, but from them to Hetcha Sarah Commander Hala Graham,
I was incredibly impressed with Derada, who excuse me, I
thought that was just Lindsay Derado on a different you know,
until he returned to WD The thought that was Mortos
but he looked great. There's been a lot of great lucha.

(56:31):
Even though Kenny Omega got that win, I thought Dorado
impressed me most in that match.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Yeah, yeah, I'll look. I'm gonna be perfectly honest. It's
a little too much for my taste. But you're not
booking no matter what company, you are booking everything for me.
You're you're booking something for everybody, So I get it.
It's just that that roster's so big. They're guys on
it who aren't being used that I'd like to see
used a little more. But I do think it ain't

(56:59):
by accident. We've been seeing more looches and it hasn't
been a detriment for oh oh, this isn't good or
this is too flippy floppy. By and large, it has
been really good stuff.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
And I feel like for the last couple of months
we've seen interjections of c mm cm l L and
I didn't know if this was something to do with
the thought of Albuquerque, Phoenix, l Paso, Denver. That's been
the last four shows, not the furthest trips for CMMLL

(57:34):
to make.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Now Dorado and some of those probably played into it.
But even before that more emphasis or more screen time.
I won't even lump Bandido and Commander in on that
because they've been around the whole time. But even more
more toast.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
I think that Mortas Russ and drag Eleasta have now
actually signed for a time. Yeah, I think that was
a big deal too. Is we can now focus on
you because you're our entities were before they were in
and out right right, and you're not.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
In and out. But yeah, look, certainly that their run
of the Southwest and all that probably helped get some
of them. But you could have just done dark matches
with those people if you were trying to draw crowds,
not run the risk of chasing away TV audience. To
point being, they made an effort to put these people
on the cards and let us know who they are.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Is it a little much that all LUCA tag teams
titles are about to be American because FTR is about
to be the c M l L tag team once again,
and Lafa Are Logato da Fantasma is about to grab
the Triple A tag team titles at the Triple Mega.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Well, I would say, what once again aw trying to
out WWE the WWE.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Dectually catching onto the Lucha of ae W Well, I
think that, well.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Look, probably, but the ante was up when, which, by
the way, the Triple A sale, it hadn't gone through yet.
WWE still doesn't technically own it. That could always that
could always fall apart. I don't believe it's going to
but it could. But I think that up the ante,
and Tony's like, well, hold on, I've got a great

(59:15):
relationship with CML. We use these guys regularly, which is
gonna up it. By the way, that's also gonna help
my partner CML, because the way they're doing this in Mexico,
they're positioning themselves as real lucha, which I think is
actually really smart because I do think that. Look, I'm

(59:38):
not saying Triple A was wrong for selling to WWE.
I think they were in a position where they had to.
But when you suddenly whitewash pun intended lucha libre, you
run the risk of alienating that fan base. So you're CMLLL,
which is already at this point kind of seen, while
not the oldest company, the more dominant company in the two,

(01:00:01):
we're real Luca. We're on Mexican owned. That's pretty damn
good branding. There and if your partnership with AW allows
more exposure for that talent, both in the US and Mexico,
it's a win win win.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
It supported that people every Saturday pack into the arena
to Mexico. I believe in Mexico City like sixteen thousand
people to watch CMLL. If you watch Vikingo d Throne
Alberto L. Patron, it felt like five hundred people were
there and it was in a high school gymnasium.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
The artistry of how they were illuminating the past of
Triple A and the forty one thousand people that they
had for the first Triple A Mania back in the
nineties that still holds a record. Yeah, they're far from
that product at this point, which is unfortunate. How are
you on the hangman? Adam Page will also alliance. If

(01:01:00):
he's watching my back, I'm watching his back.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
That's all nice and cute, but it feels really weird.
The Cowboy and the Englishman.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
I think it all goes to shit when Moxley still
wins it all in you watch my back and this
is what I get.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Well, maybe that intrigues then a war between the two.
Maybe that's a better.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Well, it's gonna get us Osprey and Swerve Strickland this
week on Dynamite Collision four hours Summer Blockbuster Spectacular, whatever
the hell it's called. So I don't exactly hate it. Look,
I get it makes sense. I guess, you know, trying

(01:01:46):
to look out for the greater good of the company.
H it also as a nice side benefit. Swerve ain't
on board with all this, so it's it's gonna give
us Swerve an Osprey on free TV. So I'm not
exactly hating it. I just don't think it works out
that well long term.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Okay, just kind of wondering about that. It's intriguing. I
don't know if they have that much chemistry. I want
them to get back to fighting each other.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Does the addition of Omega Okada at all in kind
of make you want a road trip to Arlington, Texas?

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Dude? If I didn't think I have a commentary gig
for a grappling company that already hired me, yeah, yeah,
I'd be like, Oh, that's vacation time. That is vacation time.
That match alone, that match alone, Russeller King Domain Event
five star match quality. We've been waiting for that for
so long Okada Omega. I hope it can nearly reach

(01:02:40):
my expectations.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Now, I know you had interference in all that. Something
that does bug me, and it's not just their t
move road warrior stuff. But why are you giving me
Leo Rush versus Will Osprey in a position where it's
a big match on the card. And I get it
TV the opening mattress, all right, nobody believes for a

(01:03:04):
second Leo Rush is beating Ospray. That's more of a
testament to Osprey than a slight on Rush. But take
it how you won't. I don't really care, but don't
waste my time with that shit unless you're making it
a squash. Now, I get it, you had interference. Hangman
comes out, so you're furthering the storyline you were asking about.
But that's just like automatic two. Now I can go

(01:03:26):
take a piss, go get something to drink, come back.
If this dumb shit's still on, maybe I'll just fast
forward through it. I get it, you're trying to showcase everybody.
I don't think Leo Rush benefits from getting his ass
beat by Osprey and being the third fiddle in that
segment whatever whatever, But I just look, I know you

(01:03:49):
like Rush, so maybe you look at this differently. This
just screamed there's nobody else we can send out there
to lose the Ospray, so let's just send Leo Rush out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
That was part of it for me, That's really what
it was. Even for me for liking Rush, I was like, well,
this gonna be entertaining. We know he's gonna lose. There's
not much reason for it. It made more sense if
he had to came out during that two three weeks
that action ANDRETTI wes overseas in Japan. My partner's getting work.
I need to not. Hey, we just got back from Japan.
He's tired. I'm not. Let's go. They try to put

(01:04:21):
together a reason, but he knew how it was gonna
turn out.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
And look, I got nothing against Leo Rush other than
being in this situation. I'm fine with it being on TV.
I'm fine and you want to push him, but in
that spot, we needed to see more out of Leo
Rush in order to believe he could actually beat will Ospray.
That's my only complaint there. That gets some real fucking

(01:04:44):
ring attire crew and instead of the blow up spike
thingy looks like something Darby Allen wore climbing Everest looking shit, are.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
We gonna have to have the Callous family fight each
other in Trios match number one contendership Like we've got
the hatcha zero Kyle Fletcher, uh tits Kesha win at
the beginning of the night, Josh Alexander in Faction winning
in the middle of the night. It's all coming up Callous.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Maybe. I if it gets us to a trios title
match that somehow involves Lance Archer and we can strap
gold around his waist, I'm all for it again. I
think criminally underutilized. Now, problem there, his partner just had
knee replacement surgery or hip or something and and was

(01:05:40):
dealing with something else as well. So yeah, Brian Cage
ain't gonna be back for a while, although he's already
back in the gym like four days after surgery.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Oh yeah, we were wrong, Paragon and and Garcia got
the win over Rapungie. Weis Archer and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Right, that's right because they Archer with fucking know RPG.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Okay, so it's not all coming up Kallus. We had
to have some minor on the drawback. Kyle Fletcher, I
think he's in line, though he should be the one
to dethrone Adam Cole get a TNT title. Run Uh.
I'm so confused with the treatment of Paragon and Adam
Cole still not breaking away from the pack even though

(01:06:25):
he got a title. I thought this was gonna be
an enhancement for the title, and it just feels like
the same title ring with Daniel Garcia. The TNT title,
which was once prestigious second biggest title in the company
of the men's Singles belt, now is an afterthought.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
I think the International and probably the the the passed.
It doesn't mean it can't still be important. I can't
believe I'm gonna say this. I think Roddy Strong and
Adam Cohle a holding Kyle O'Reilly back, and look I

(01:07:05):
like all three of them. I especially love Roddy and O'Reilly.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
I I there shouldn't be but I can't help but
wonder if there's some hesitation with doing too much with
Adam Cole because you're afraid he's gonna get hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
So, I mean, it's it's not like any of their
faults per se, but I feel like Kyle O'Reilly would
be you just touched on it would be much better
off challenging Adam Cole for the TNT title then being
a part of a faction with him. The problem is,
what else are you doing with Roddy? Uh, you're gonna
bring back Tavin and Bennett. I don't recall that faction

(01:07:42):
working out all that great. So I mean, I don't know,
but yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
We could go join the Ops or the Conglomeration, and
I think Kyle O'Reilly could sink or swim on his own,
same as Adam Cole.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
I was gonna say, when Orange Cassidy comes back and
Mark Brisk goes of bleeding all over the damn place
every week, we need a reformation of the Conglomeration.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
And I think that that would be the best place
for Roger Strong, and it would happen to some of
his underlying comedic abilities. Uh, you know what, You're not wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
My initial reaction was, but I don't want my Roddy
Strong to be have comedic tendencies. Yes I do, Yes,
you do. Yes, I miss him screaming at him every
week and all that he's Look, once you get in
the ring, he still wrestles his ass off. But I
think you're right, I do. I do miss that comedic
aspect of roder Strong's.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Character because right now he's a saltine, just dry and
the same shape all the time, you know what I mean,
Just love it salty.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
I have a better idea for Roddy Strong if you're
going to keep it going in one of these stupid
all over the place match and I say, stupid, isn't crazy?
Not stupid? Stupid all over the matches involving the Death
Riders and some form of the Ops and Brisco and

(01:09:15):
whomever whoever. Willow's beaten down Marina Shaffir and the hooded
figure comes out, pulls her off and starts taking out
members of the opposition, and we all assume it's Gabe Kid.
Then he shaves his head and no, no, but that

(01:09:38):
was good, But he takes the hood off. It is
Roderic Strong.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Oh my bad.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Sorry that they're to save his wife and join up
with her faction because they're actually badasses and they don't
look like little toothpicks. Babe. Sorry, Adam Cole, I still
like you, but I mean, let's be honest, Roddy Strong
might fit in better with the dude, he really would.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
I like that if we're gonna keep him as a
as a grappler, add an edge to him, make him meaner,
and add him to the death writers. I feel like
he's right there on that same Gabe Kid kind of
level of ferocity if you really turned him on. Yeah,
welcome back, ty Mellow. You now have Anna Jay reunited
with her original tag team partner Harley Cameron's on vacation,

(01:10:24):
so good for Megan Bain when she's gonna squash the
two of them. Didn't know that Megan Bain was in
a relationship with Joey Janella. Saw that on the internet
this week. Good for him in GCW.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Crazy World, Crazy World, ar Fox.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Ar Fox did out most for me in that four way.
The man has no personality, his charisma's off, but if
we just let him work, he is fucking phenomenal in
the ring.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
If you ever decide, hey, this hologram things worked out great,
we need another. I'm doing air quotes here, homegrown Luca
mask person. I'd take ar Fox off a TV for
a month or two and re debut him with a
new name under a mask. All right, might be some

(01:11:14):
work to be Fox. No, I call him whatever? Yeah,
you don't have to do a play off that. I
think he's talented as hell, I don't know personality wise,
he's got what it takes to get as far as
he would like in the business.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
He wishes he had Nick Wayne's personality and that's only
slightly better.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
Just based on the setup of AEW. Did you ever
envision a scenario where Nick Wayne was going to be
bigger and more over than Hook, because I would argue
he is regardless of what happens when we find out
when Hook, you know, lets us know why he did
what he did at double or nothing and who side

(01:12:03):
is he on? Is he really mad at the ops? Whatever, whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
Plateaued and Nick Wayne is closer to dom mystereo exceeding
the expectations.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Do you think it's Look, I don't want to misdirect
credit or anything like that, so please noway take it
that way. But do you think it's because Nick Wayne
was given Christian as a mentor, whereas we're led to
believe Hook's mentor is his father. But you don't really
have that dynamic on TV because Taz is trying to
be impartial call it in the middle. Although as a father,

(01:12:38):
he's going to get routed up at times, but Nick
Wayne was given an on screen character to guide him. Now, yes,
Hook at various times, has worked with Dan Housen a
couple of others and was in the Ops. But before
the injury.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
If you didn't hypothesize that maybe the fatherly influence has
constricted his growth because he's constructed constrained to one mentor
and a mentor that's a some of it's been retired,
some of it's not fresh in the industry. I could
go along with that theory, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Well, it wasn't even so much comparing who's a better
mentor Christian or tak Well, just just right right, and
how fucking look Taz is an announcer, so right off
the bat, even if we wanted to do that comparison,
it's not fair.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
He has a different perspective on the industry in the business.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
Right, But how fucking great Christian is as an on
screen character and as a talent and performer in ae W.
Putting Nick Wayne in that faction automatically drew interest. Now, look,
Nick Wayne's got to go out and back it up
and do his part in the ring and all that.
But just the opportunity and look like with Hook. It's

(01:13:46):
one thing when stings in the rafters or drops down
or whatever, and there's the mistake because Sting's been around
for fucking ever. But when you throw up the hook signal,
and Tony Schwis says hook, Hook hasn't been around long
enough to have that mistique. So that I don't want
to say they did him a disservice, but they just

(01:14:08):
went two different ways with Nick Wayne and Hook. And
I think Nick Wayne, you probably had higher hopes for
a hook early on, and not to say that he
wanted to achieve all those things, but I think in
the short term, Nick Wayne has surpassed him and is
higher in the pecking order.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
I think that Hook would have benefited if we could
have started this ops earlier, and if he would have
never got injured. I think that being around Shibata and Joe,
the Joe interactions, I think that that was taking him
in the right direction when they were hunting the learning tree,
when they were having those vignettes, I think we were

(01:14:44):
adding some character and rounding out Hook. And I think
getting injured and having to shove Hobbs into his position
was a true detriment to his maturation.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, Again, I don't think it's anything malicious
or that either one is particularly that just a comparison
both young guys, similar physiques, second generation wrestlers and all that. Yeah,
but it was It wasn't so much a shot at
hook as it was a credit to Nick Wayne, was
what I was trying to do with all that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Uh, THECLA I like her? I like her? Did she
stick out for you enough? Is there is there a
room in a world for a Megan Bain and the
thekla Are they too overriding the superiority, the violence, the
domination factors.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
There's a room for both. There's probably not room for
a long feud between the two. They need to be separated.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
But I was impressed for the debut of the Austrian Assassin.
I can't remember what they were calling her. Remember she's
Austrian though, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Yeah, Austrian assassin something blackwidows. Yeah yeah, but yeah, no,
I like her a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Going back to WW real quick, because I've got the
overrun in aew When you saw Jade standing next to
Charlotte standing next to Tiffy, did all the specialness come
off of the size of all three of them? Yes,
and to Megan Bain's benefit, at least there's no one

(01:16:18):
that's really her size in AW. You need to keep
her in that apart. I think, to keep that specialness
so that we don't think one is less of a badass.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
I think I know the answer to the question, but
I'm gonna phrase it this way anyway. You surprised that
Mariah May's WWE debut was an XT.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
No because there's an overrun of blondes and of girls
her size and at least being separate and going to
go feud with Jordan Grace or whoever's there, and NXT
because I don't know besides Jordan Grace. I think it'll
be a benefit for her.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
I agree with you. I question. Look, it's fine, Look,
it's her prerogative. I'm not gonna be like overly critical
of it. But why would you leave? And I look,
if ww has been your dream, all right, well NXT's
the way you get to WWE, I guess, But why
would you leave AW where you're a former champion, a

(01:17:15):
main event player. They would have kept that feud going
forever with Tony Storm to go be an NXT.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
Did you see the group of nil this weekend. There's
like Mark Henry's son, there was a Scott reck Steiner
the other one, and there's also another blonde gymnasts. I
feel like they keep putting them in a Barbie doll
copy machine and signing them. And Mariah May is no
longer special because you're a diamond, doesn't You're the same.

(01:17:44):
Hopefully her acting, her charisma, her personality will shine. But
from this the physical attributes, you all are the same model.
It's kind of funny that Tiffy did the whole Barbie thing,
because there truly is enough blondes that could just do
that entrance very easily.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
Now in WW I like Miriam May a lot. I
hope she's happy there. I'm certain. Well, my guess is
the money's probably a little better. I do not think
she will ever be used as well as she was
in AW anywhere in WWE. Now again, that ain't the end.
I'll be all for everybody. Look if if if your

(01:18:20):
dream has always been WWE, AW will lose that battle
every single time. That's just the way that down the lines,
right versus six years? Yeah exactly, so yeah, I mean
so I get it, and I don't really falter.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
I do fault in a way that it's bad business
to have heard no offer was gonna be good enough. Dude,
if they're making a bigger offer, take the money, because,
as Penta has proven, WWE will be there to your forties.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
True.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
I mean, it's not like the next contract would have
meant you're you're aligning forever three years of your free
agent again in three years, and J's gonna play this
out forever.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Right barring an injury or whatever, nothing was gonna happen
to Mariah May and AEW that would do anything other
than boost her stock for WWE next contracts. But look,
I can't I get it. I don't like it, but
we have to keep in mind too, Like for US fans,
it's all about title shots, placement on the card, and

(01:19:28):
this ain't real guys. It's it's about where you want
to be, who you want to be around, assuming money
is equal or close. And again, look, WWE won't be
outbid for anybody that they really want. So I'm sure
she's doing fine money wise, I get it, But from
an on screen standpoint, she won't. She will not be

(01:19:50):
used as well in WWE as she was in AW.
Is that the end all be all for us. It
might be for her or for most talent, it's really not.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
Thankfully, the WWE is buying a women's division. They have
deep pockets and with Julia from Starting, with Stephanie Vancore
from CMLL, with Roxande from Ring av Honor, with Mariah
May from ae W, with Jordan Grace from Impact Wrestling,
they are taking care of a giant hole in the roster.

(01:20:21):
They have purchased a women's division and a shout out
to Ethan Page not a lucha but Batman is money.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
That's one who left and has benefited different situation than
Mariah May. Tony Kahn was never going to use him
in the way he felt like he should be used.
And yes, for those who want to argue with the
point I made about Maria May, Ethan Page should should
be your poster guy.

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
Well, the other thing though about Ethan Paye and this
is the weird thing about WWE, because after examining it,
and I mean this with all the disrespect, Tiffy's ash
should be an nxt Still she has not hold the
candle to Jordan Grace, who's in n xt ENI and
Mariah May. Those two should easily be up on the
main roster, So you never know what w W wants

(01:21:12):
because Phraxium doesn't look ready. Ethan Page and Ricky Starks
they came in ready. So just it's the WWE plan, man,
and we're just watching it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
You know the reason Tiffy's there and Jordan Grace is not.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
Right, I I marketability been there already a while. Depends
on who they're sleeping with what.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
No, it's it's what WWE looks for in a women's wrestler.
You're Shana Basler's aside your nia Jack's aside. We know
where Shane is now do with Nya. There's a prototype
for your women. That's why we said there many. They're beautiful.
A lot of them are blonde. At some point they
dye their hair red. What have you? Similar bodies? Jordan

(01:21:58):
Grace not Shane a Basler type, but more of a
hard legit ass kicker look than a pretty bouncing around.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
Does it hurt Jordan Grace that she's a bodybuilder, has
the physique Charlotte Flair, but she's the foot shorter.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
That the height hurts a little bit, But it's even Charlotte.
I'm trying to think of the way to say it
because I'm not trying to be at all disrespectful to anybody,
but I just trying to point out with Charlotte has
a soft look to her, not flabby. I don't mean anything,
but there's a beauty look, whereas again, and Jordan Graces

(01:22:43):
is not that Jordan Grays isn't attractive and all that.
I'm not saying any of that, but little had cut,
chiseled look like and look, if you want to tell me,
what have you seen Rhea Ripley. Yeah, Ria Ripley's their
aspects of her as well. But point being, Jordan Grace
doesn't fit what WWE typically looks for in a women's.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
You're saying it's an aesthetic decision from ww the roster.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
Yes, that's why Mariah May fits that mold, whereas I
think Jordan Grace would thrive in AEW. I I think
Tony Kn'll take anybody. Oh I'm not take anybody, but
I mean can whether you're a big Amazon, whether you're timeless,
you know, wearing things that like in the case of

(01:23:32):
Tony Storm, greatest character maybe in all the wrestling right now,
she wears nothing that enhances her look as far as
being a hotty type thing all that. Look at the
character one hundred percent, but does it Whereas like in WWE,
someone who looks like Tony Storm, they're not letting dress
like that. Nope, them cheeks are gonna be hanging out.
You're gonna be wearing this, that and the other. Right,

(01:23:58):
they're going for a certain look and then talent is secondary.
Like Jordan Grace's problem.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Ain't talent matter?

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
Right, she may not have a problem other than her
looks not what WW looks for. That's the I.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
Wrestling Company doesn't value pro wrestlers the biggest attribute they're
looking for. Well, again, you brought him about an industry.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Well look, you brought up blonde gymnast. That ain't coincidence
that the blonde part might be. They go, that's one
of the things they over gymnast. If you can do
moves and flip and flop and all that, we can
teach you to wrestle. That's their mentality. Uh, they're a
ton of them on the roster.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
And I'm not trying to knock anybody, but between Money
in the Bank and the Luca Show, that how they
say this is pro wrestling. The Saint Ballet, I know
it's choreographed, but god damn did it really feel choreographed?
At points it looked very ballet. At points it looked
very very ballet. And if you disagree with me, hit
me up on the X. It's at Franklemiicah who got

(01:24:59):
four hours again of AIW this week. It's a big Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
It's a big Wednesday. You can get the show on
ex at PW After Hours. You can get me at
Real Night, Carlisle. We will talk to you next week
for another episode of Pro Wrestling After Hours. You're on
the After Hours podcast network.

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