Ep 295: Goldberg Returns to WWE...and Gets a Title Shot? AEW Heads to Mexico. All the Latest News.

Episode 295: Goldberg returns to WWE...and gets a title shot? Liv Morgan suffers an injury on Raw. AEW heads to Mexico as the buid to All In continues. All the latest news.











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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
What's up, everybody? Welcome back. It is pro Wrestling after Hours.
I'm Michael Carlisle, joined as always by Micah Frank O'miicah
shaking man, Man.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I think Oklahoma City is shaking. They're about to get
their first NBA title.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
And you just jinks the hell out of them.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
You can get your first sight.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Way to go, Micah, it just jinks the Oklahoma City thunder.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
But the thunder has them shaken in Oklahoma City, Like
it's not really a place that gets shaken, but that
that place pretty rock all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
They have quite a bit of low key earthquakes, a
lot of fracking in Oklahoma, freakin' fracking, just fracking, just fracking,
a little freakin' fracking, freakin' but not freaking fracking.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
That's where they got all those nice trucks from us, right,
all the fracking. Uh sure, the oil money and then
you buy the nice truck. I guess that's kind of
shot because it brings thunder, so makes you shake. The
foundation shakes, Like, do you feel like any of the
foundation is shaking?

Speaker 1 (01:07):
They're pro wrestling, yes, uh, as a matter of fact,
right off the bat, it's just because I'm guessing you
haven't seen this. You know who just passed his law
exam and is about to become officially an attorney at law.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
You mean Frank Mortos.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
God damn it, you did know, Yes, Morto's I don't
think he's gonna be no ambulance chaser.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, judgeing byas tweet, he might be something to the
effect if you don't want to pay your wife in
the divorce settlement higher or something. But yes, uh, yes,
Frank Mortos.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Did he say you're a man and your chili has
rights to or is it your horns as he's a beast, Yes,
your horns have right to man.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Let's see if I could find that real quick. I
don't see it.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
That was not something that I had in my notes,
not something I was gonna lead with the show. But
I guess we should have said the bar is shaking
because now it has a beast in the courtroom.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yes, this probably doesn't bode well for me and Mark Sterling.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
How many lawyers does Tony Kahan really need on screen?
I just feel like that Mortos's opening statements like get
a little repetitive.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
I feel like in Abyss Chris Park scenario, from back
in the day and TNA should come into play here
where were you have beat Mortos, but you also have
Frank Mortos and he's backstage with a suit and a
briefcase and whatnot, and and he talks playing and clear and.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
You're just bringing up how much of a waste that
aw made the Mortos thing. Morto's choosing side. It's between
uh Losen, Gobernobles, dig upone or losing Gobernabiles and Paragon
un just be a kingdom at that point because the
Kingdom needed a beast. We needed to have that split personality,

(03:14):
We needed to have them appealing to his human side.
I feel like we could have went this way, and
then all of a sudden Tony Calm was like, not
just go just go back to being with the other
dudes with the masks, and then they let it go.
But I think Mortos could have done it. Does it
kill him if he takes off the mask and we
see him like with Kingdom and just be a kingdom?

(03:36):
If they did that, and then all of a sudden
he finds out he's booked with UH with Los and
Gobernobiles and he comes out with the mask with yes
kill the character.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
What doesn't kill the character is if you have Beast
more TOAs and Frank Mortas, and Frank Mortas obviously doesn't
wear a mask because you know he's a fucking lawyer.
That doesn't kill the character. But yes, if you're Beast
Mortos without the mask and then Best Mortos with the
mask kills it. I know, incredibly stupid, but that's my

(04:07):
logic and I'm sticking to it.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
So you think we could have brought in all of
a sudden, Hello guys, very good to see you. Here's
my card. I am Frank Mortoses Mortos, we love you,
be our partner, and he could have been in the Kingdom.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
I think you have me confused with someone else. I
am Frank Mortos. I am not this Beast Mortas that
you are calling out for. Give me no, he exactly
all right, right, Frank Mortos is as white as can be.
I know, give me one moment and I'll find this
beast fellow you're looking for. And he walks off in
like thirty seconds later, a right, right, but Best Mortas

(04:43):
shows up.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, that could have done so much more with Mortos.
I really feel that that was that was one that
Tony Kahn let go. I don't know if we could
revisit it, but it really would have been solid if
we could have got there.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, let's skip around a little because I don't know
if I can and sit here and go through the
four hour abomination that was aw last week. And I
just say that because it's I'll explain it. I get
why they did what they did the last two weeks. Yes,

(05:17):
it's a fucking abomination, man, because of the way they
do it. And I know you're like, well, four eyes,
what the fuck are you bitching about? You?

Speaker 2 (05:26):
I know what's your bitching about, the same thing that
we're all probably bitching about. Why can't it just be
one four hour fucking shit.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Right when you break it up, whether it's your DVR
and you gotta make us second recording. But look, they
do all that for the categorization on the streaming and
all that, but not only that your show peaks after
two hours and ten minutes, five minutes whatever with the overrun,

(05:53):
and then you want me to stick around for another
two plus hours, but it's two plus hours of less
than entertainment.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, they needed to rework it. You needed to have
the feeling that it was one show when you're booking
it out that the main event is going.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
To be the fucking ma main event can't be.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
The Dynamite main event. It needs to be the main ring.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
So from a flow standpoint, if I'm trying to watch
all four hours, the second two hours is just a
letdown after the first. Not that those matches aren't good
and all that, but you've already peaked again. I get
why they do it, why it has to be two
different shows, but it doesn't make it right, and it

(06:37):
doesn't make it any easier to watch, and quite frankly,
I think it does a disservice to what you're trying
to do by putting on a four hour wrestling show.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
They had the right idea into how they transitioned. I
like how the transition from Dynamite to Collision. It wasn't
a hard transition at the top of the hour, right,
it was the overrun It played out. Okay, you break
it up, it comes back, but that ending is harsh,
and like you said, you hit the nail on the head.
It needs to feel like it was one long show,

(07:10):
even though you know you're breaking it up in two.
It needed to feel like two long shows. Also, I know,
Seeumpunk's gone. He's never coming back. He was a huge
hit to the ratings. You've got to figure out, in
the most important way, the fuck are we doing with Collision,
because it has taken away all the specialness. One of

(07:31):
the shows is going to be less than. But Dynamite
feels a lot more important than Collision, where Collision now
kind of feels like a combination of dark and dark elevation,
which I love, but it doesn't feel like it's a full,
worthy enough Saturday night product.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
More importantly than that, you can kind of overlook that
when one's on Wednesday and one Saturday. But when you're
doing the four hour block, one right behind the other
and there is that letdown, it's highlighted so much more
the difference. Yeah, I if these are gonna come up

(08:08):
again from time to time, and I'm certain they will,
you gotta just fucking make it a four hour Dynamite
or whatever, because because look, you can't do Dynamite a
disservice either by having it less than just so you
can have the biggest moment four hours later at the
end of Collision. So just make it one show. I mean,

(08:30):
all right, maybe that throws some some problems at you
as far as trying to catalog stuff and list it
on Max and all that. But I think you're doing
yourself a real disservice. You know. Look, I'm convinced Kenny
Omega's dead when when Dynamite ended, that motherfucker's dead. He's
as dead as he can be. And now I got

(08:52):
to go into Kyle Fletcher and Anthony Bowen's, and then
I gotta get FTR beating up old Man Atlantis and
Atlantis Junior. I yeah, it's just look, not that there
would be anything wrong with Fletcher, Bowen's and and FDR

(09:14):
taking out the Atlantis is it feels on Saturday night.
But yeah, there's such a letdown after the first two hours.
It's brutal, and I get it. You're trying to do
the best you can with what you got to work with.
I think you should try something else.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Oversight, there is oversight. There was oversight. I did not
like it. I agree with you. So I don't know
if I would go with just saying that it was
a four hour abomination, because I tried to stay away
from saying that.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
The last no true, Well, it's more like about a
two hour and twenty minute abomination these days. But yes,
abomination might be strong, but it was not four hours
of pleasurable vie and that's what it should be.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
When was the last time you said the word abomination
so much?

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Uh? I don't know that, right, we've used I thought
I thought about it the week before because I also
had these the same thoughts after the the let's see
this was spring or summer break whatever fight. Yeah, yeah,
I had the same thing after a fighter fest as well,
but we and we did it two straight weeks, so

(10:26):
it really highlights it.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Hey, if you had Will Hospray in the first segment, hon,
your bingo card is Michael Carlisle Toja too. You can
mark down a space. That's the good old free space
right in the middle, right.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Well, you brought it up last week, but yeah, there
he was again, which is fine. I get it start hot.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
It's just kind of funny that it's like clockwork at
this point.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
But why couldn't you do that at the end of
Dynamite and have the omega of callous family stuff at
the end of Collision or vice versa.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Dude, Yeah, the Kallus family stuff at the end of
Dynamite I think would have been much better, and then
what we had at the end of Dynamite ending Collision
just to balance everything out. And I feel like if
you have some of the stuff from Collision on Dynamite
in these four hours shows, it might actually feel like
it's more important because we're like, oh, this is usual
collision worthy.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
By the way, there are two things I want to
point out from Dynamite. The first, since we're on it
right now, when Callous comes out, I can't believe I'm
gonna tall to do this. Go to Max and pull
that up. Ocatta's facial expressions standing behind Omega when Callous

(11:44):
is out there, I thought he did a fucking phenomenal
job of no selling the fact he's about to beat
the fuck out of Kidney Omega. He had these what
are you doing here? Oh my, you're a jackass whatever whatever,
I thought he sold the hell.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Now, that was an amazing swerve that they had the
argument in the back first, right, Paul kallis family surrounding,
Oh god it, and he calls them bitches.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
I thought they were enemies. Now they might have kept
that camera angle too long to the point where you're like,
oh shit, o God is about to attack Kenny Omega.
But I thought there was that where I thought Omega
just sold the hell out of it. But the thing
you brought up before that did the Ospray swerve match.
Ospray taken the super kicks with the spike shoes. When

(12:34):
he stepped in in front of a swerve. That camera
angle was so fucking pretty.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Now.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
I'm sure the people there could see it, but the
way they shot that, you had no idea that Ospray
was about to step in and take that kick until
he did it. Tip of the hat to aw for that,
because I think lots of times some of their camera
angles a little questionable. They shot the hell out of that.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
You want to pounce around a little bit, right, Okay?
So that was amazing opposite a spectrum fuck you wwe
Carmelo hot Hayes with the little belly flop into Randy
Orton's arms for the eight art the worst shit I've
ever seen, because the camera caught Randy Orton's arm as

(13:20):
he's standing there waiting for Carmelo to dive to him.
So it's not that it's anti climatic to the whole
entire audience, you know, only sixteen thousand people or something,
but everyone at home had to know it was coming
because they showed Randy's arm. So camera angles matter, huge point.
I love that one, Karlov. Yeah, you are right. I

(13:41):
thought I was like, did they actually fucking kick Osprey?
It's not really possible, but did they?

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah? So yes. So if you're going to go back
and watch fro cottas facial expressions at the end of Dynamite,
go back at the match beat down, after the Bucks
come out in the Osprey Swerve match and all that
where they're about to kick or with the tacked up
shoes and Ospay steps in to take They shot that
so fucking perfectly.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Dude, Bravo, you got to give credit where credits due
not to mention it was the time limit draw. It
was thirty something minutes. I don't judge me for this.
I watched that Ospray sort of match three times.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Can I ask you a personal question? Yeah? Did you
climax all three times? No? First, it was as good.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Second, just first.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
I wasn't expecting that answer either. All right, I'm sorry,
you know what I asked. My apologies to everybody I
asked the question. You answered it. I should have asked it.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
I've told you before asking questions could be dangerous towards me.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Man, while we're skipping around on Raw this week, don't worry.
We're coming back to AW I'm sure we will. I
promise surprise surprise, Bill Goldberg shows up. Surprise surprise. Bill
Goldberg's again a title match at Saturday Night's main event
in his retirement match in Atlanta. Who saw that coming? Oh? Yeah,

(15:11):
we did. Everybody.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Everybody did. I like how Gunther came out and said
it wasn't happening, just for it to happen ten seconds later. Yeah, Atlanta,
It's gonna be a hot card, Bill Goldberg. I seriously
mean this guy's has done enough and put in enough
for pro wrestling that he is allowed to go out
the way he wants to. He has enough of a

(15:34):
fan base that they will enjoy it, they will emphasize it.
I seriously hope that Gunther chokes his ass, because things
still don't feel great to me about Gunther, Like winning
the title last week and then this kind of felt
like a little belittling of a moment again. Am I
too hard on Gunther?

Speaker 1 (15:53):
I think Gunther is about to become a babyface.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
You think so.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Now, maybe babyface is strong, maybe more of a tweener,
but I don't think he's going to be a hated,
dastardly Heal put it like that. On the Goldberg side
of things, I'm with you. Yes, it's a little wonky.
His retirement match will be for a title, and he's
wrestled like five times in the last fifteen years old,

(16:22):
whatever it is. That's not actress, right, But I don't care.
Goldberg is a legit legend. Not that there won't be
more developed, but as you're looking right now, you don't
have many other people that you could do something like
this with. Goldberg is certainly one of those. I've got
no problems with it whatsoever. I'm curious how you honor

(16:46):
Goldberg's career in the ending of this match without him
becoming champion.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
That is the best question to me, because the thought
of him beating Gunther hurts Gunther. It looks slow to me.
And second, I don't want to help John Cena at all,
and if we give Goldberg a title to retire with,
John Cena is the only champion, and that sickens me

(17:13):
to think that ww is going to go down that road.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Well, if they do go down that road, it's just
a matter of time before they bring that belt back literally, right,
Although I would be very fine with just one World
heavyweight champion, but I think at this point that we
can assume that ain't in the cards for WWE. Let
me throw out two hypotheticals for you. One, Goldberg wins,

(17:39):
he's celebrating in the ring, the music hits, it's cash
in time, and Seth Rollins pens Goldberg becomes the champ.
I don't like that because, yeah, you're giving Goldberg as win,
but then you're still pinning him at the end. So
if your goal is to honor Goldberg here, that doesn't
really do it. How about Gunther wins after getting his

(18:01):
ass beat by Goldberg and a beaten down Gunther uh
suddenly gets attacked by whatever the hell that faction is called,
and then Rowlins comes in, cashes in, and you're doing
the quick transition to Rollins that way.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Either one of those works, but I think you're right.
I think money in the bank gets cashed in and
Rawlins becomes the champion. So we're talking about epic match.
Goldberg pulls it out over Gunther, Goldberg celebrates. I like
bron Breaker spearing Goldberg. I like the dog with the

(18:43):
dogs in the state, and he's the one that sticks
the knife, so to speak, into his idol. He has
the same damn arm tattoo. You can't tell me it's
not reminiscent of a Goldberg. And then Seth catches in
and as they're celebrating, Gunther has to do the runoff
because he now respects Goldberg. So you do get that
kind of Gunther lifts up Goldberg. They respect each other.

(19:07):
He raised Goldberg's arm, and maybe now there's a respectability
to Gunther because we all hate Seth rawlins.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
You didn't let me get to option three, where word
for word everything you just said I was not word
for word. Yes, I like that option as well. Look,
this is happening in Atlanta, Goldberg's last match. You don't
think there's gonna You don't think DDP is gonna be
in the crowd for that, but probably Alex Luger if

(19:37):
he's up to it, maybe a Steiner brother or two.
I could see a scenario where after Goldberg does whatever
happens in that match, and he celebrated in his retirement match.
The lasting image is a bron breaker spearing Goldberg, whether

(19:59):
he leaves old Bert Lang or whether that leads to
Rollins coming out, or if Goldberg actually had won the belt. Yes,
but but yeah, I can see something like that happening
for sure.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
That gives me tingles. I like that scenario. You can
see the way the King of the Ring is playing out.
I guess we'll get to the King of the Ring
real quick because it's ready made for jay Uso to
also jump right back in the fray or is it Cody?
Do you get the Cody Randy thing? There's a lot
of implications with King of the Ring to then leave
forward if we do jump the gun on money in

(20:30):
the bank, Etceth Rowlin's already counts in.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Have you noticed how many times in the last couple
of weeks that John Cena was about to beat the
hell out of jay Uso and didn't a couple of times.
I don't think that's by coincidence.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
So jay Uso it is. You can keep going on
with this story.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
I think jay Uso is gonna be a heal might
even wind up and then the Hayman faction and uh
Gunther's gonna wind up being something of a of a babyface.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
You think that Jay Uso, yeah, is gonna become a
Hayman guy in this weird context with.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
What what? What did all that yeating and the fans
yeating with him and fucking Michael Cole standing on the
desk yeating? What did that get Jay Uso a short
title reign? And now you're nothing again? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Why didn't get him a short title reign? Why didn't it?

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Paul Hayman can rectify that, sessue. And by the way,
you got the history with the USOS and I'll do
you one better than that. You I'm sure seeing the
reports that WWE uh possibly has interest in Private Party.
Of course they brought in the MotorCity machine Guns a
little while. If WWE is really interested in revitalizing the

(21:57):
tag team division and treating tag team like it matters,
don't you need to get the USOS together. So maybe
it's a package deal. You've got Seth, Bronson, Reed and
bron Breaker your big singles. Guys. You need a tag
team in that faction. If you're bringing in Jay, may

(22:17):
as well bring in Jimmy too. God knows, Jimmy ain't
doing nothing on his own. That's you know worthy. Why
not have the uh, the usos for the tag team division?
Just saying I'm just putting out I'm not telling you
all this stuff's gonna happen, but I think some of
it is.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
I just think that it's the ways to have the
USOS and Paul Hayman in this pseudo bloodline that's not
a bloodline, and you go back to being a tag
team partner after. I understand what we were saying about banging
up the tag team division, but does that mean you're
actually gonna take like an Andrade in La Night and
Drew McIntyre, all these guys they releidated down to the

(22:58):
middle card and one of them going to elevate now
into the spot that Jay Uso occupies as he's dug
his way to the top of the car. They're gonna
be like, hey, go back to the bottom and no
more yeating, no more crowd and success, no more anything
that made you look dynamic or different. Well, you're gonna
go out there with your brother and Paul Hayman again.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I think of those names you just named,
at the very least without hearing them again, McIntyre's already
there because I would argue this was a little spike
in the career of jay Uso, and he's going back

(23:37):
to where he was upper part of the card for sure.
I don't know that jay Uso, at least anytime soon
gets another tile show. You already crowded in that main
event right now. You've got seen the holding about, You've
got Gunter holding about. Roman's gonna be back at some point.
You've got Cody, he will be. You've got Cody, You've
got Punk. We're gonna get really hot and heavy with this.

(24:02):
Sammy's ain quest to win a world title at some point.
He's already so everybody can't be world champion. Everybody can't
wrestle for the title at least a short term or
Truth gonna get a title shot again. Excuse me, Ron Killings. Sorry,
the truth, the old truth, nothing about the truth. So yeah,

(24:24):
I think jay Usso is going to have to take
a step back. You can take a step back as
a singles guy and lose as much as you win
and let some of the shine come off. Or you
can reunite with your brother, have some epic matches with
MotorCity machine guns, with whomever, whomever.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
By any argument, right, is none of those matches have
been epic, but you said you could go have epic matches.
I was like, nothing in the last two months as
they've been redesigning the tag team division has felt epic
to good epic.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
You don't have all your pieces in place yet. But
if you are going to make a concerted day, look,
that is a big iif. To make tag team wrestling
in WWE matter, you have to have those matches. And
on a premium live event that's got four or five
matches on it, you could give MotorCity Machine Guns and

(25:22):
USO's twenty twenty five minutes to show what they can do,
and by the way, they'll deliver, and not just those two.
But I mean, you know, if you and again it
is a big if. But if you're going to tell
everybody in the WWE universe that tag team wrestling matters
and you're going to go all in with it, reuniting

(25:43):
the USOS, I think is a really good way to
do that.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
I hear you been in the last two months, nothing
they've done besides signing the talent and making them all
look to be about the same level, has done anything
to encourage me that they're taking the tag team to
vision more seriously, They've brought in teams, They've given them
a tag team title short run to feel legitimate, and
then heck, we're gonna move the titles off to move

(26:08):
to somebody else, to move to somebody else, to move
to somebody else to. Right now, you're telling me that
the Wyatt family inspires you, that the WWE is going
in the right direction with the tag team division, or
giving it more emphasis. I just thought it was a
filler of a three hour show. And people like the
Bray Wyatt Reminiscent act and there is something to it.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
But do people really like the Bray Wyatt Reminiscent Act.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
I guess so, because I don't know why they cheer
for it. Sounds unless that's crowd noise too, like all
the shit for Dombastereo. I'm not sure what is crowd
noise from WWE and what isn't piped in anymore? Uh
to Marshall on that one, I.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Think you were too harsh on the tag team division. Look, look,
you're not wrong, you have it. There's nothing that's inspired me. No,
I know, I understand that, but give them a little time.
But yeah, look, I also think it's a big if.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well, that was my thing, though, you say, give them
some time, and we had that, you know, that thing
that drops the sun, the hour glass. I turned that
motherfucker over on the debut of the MotorCity Machine Guns.
And that's how much time I've been waiting. Two months,
three months, four months. I don't even think some series
that you put out for TV. I think ten to

(27:25):
twelve episodes is what you got. We already beat through
a full series, and you're telling us we still need
to get somewhere with the Tag Team division. I'm telling
you they are moving too slow for my interests.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
I understand that, but this isn't a twelve episode season
of Reacher on Prime or whatever.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
What happen? If this is fifty two weeks and you
burned exactly you already burned eight that is so much time.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
No, you never stop. You have to tell the long story.
If you shoot your wad three weeks in like earlier,
if you had waited till the third time you watched
Ospray and Strickland, never mind, you get the point, right, Yeah,
if you burn this in six weeks, then what well? No,

(28:10):
because you don't have the teams there now, and I
would argue, yeah, you signed the motor City machine Guns.
This will sound like a similar conversation we had over
on MMA After Hours earlier. If you don't have the
right dance partners, you sign the greatest tag team ever.
You signed the damn Ghost to the Road Warriors if
you got nobody for him to work with except Otis
and other dumb fuck it's or the Viking or war

(28:33):
Raiders forever card Now it's not going to be very
good if you're going to bring in more tea and
look now that you don't have some good teams there.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
If you could have, well, it sounds like they don't
from what you just said, because over eight weeks, my
problem is I haven't developed any connection to Motor City
machine Guns, to street Profits, to Pretty Deadly, to Fraxium,
to Viking Raiders. When we keep going down the list
with the two different Lucha tack teams, when you say
they haven't developed tag teams. If I can get eight

(29:03):
tag teams down, nine, ten tag teams down, how many
teams do we have to wait? And it just becomes
a pathetic conversation on the WWE part to me that
it's the same thing as look at their women's division.
It's so great. Now you went and signed the best
five women from five other companies, and you want to
pat yourselves on the back for having a tag team,

(29:24):
for having a women's division. If they sign Private Party,
they sign other tag teams. Yeah, they have signed a
tag team division. But it still tells me that over
eight to twelve weeks you did nothing to give us
anything to get entertained or to cling on too from
your entire division. So it just reflects to me a
failure of creativity and a success of your financial power

(29:49):
to sign relevant talent. Your inability to create it is
what it also shines.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yes, outside of MotorCity Machine Guns and DY, I would
argue they don't have a lot of good teams there.
But if you're putting the ussos back together, if you're
bringing in Private Party, by the way, as long as
you're working with TNA, are we ever far off? God
help us all from the Hardy showing up in wat teams, well,

(30:20):
Private Party for we're aw tag team champions. For whatever
that's worth. Harty's are legends now if you want to
tell me that was ten years ago, all right, But
yeah again and it's you know, I spend a ton
more time on this because I think it's still a
big if how much they're really going to go all
in on the tag team division. But if you're going to,

(30:44):
I think teams you're bringing in, no, I agree with
you a lot of what's there. I think it is
used to lose to whoever you're bringing in. Whatever you're
bringing in, with the exception of maybe at some point
Theory and Waller you do something with, although it seems
more likely that that just ain't gonna be a tag
team for much longer.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Oh you, aren't you enjoying the long storytelling? I think
we've been talking about their breakup for a year. They've
been hitting it. It's long storytelling just cares about their story.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Right, And that's the problem. I enjoy long storytelling for
things that care about. I don't you tell this story
in ten minutes or ten months. I'm not going to
care about Austin Theory and Grayson Waller.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
So no, is the New Day still a good tag team?
We never bring them up in the conversation either way.
So that's why I wonder, because they're the tag team
champions and we didn't even bring them up of one brand.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
If you're serious about revitalizing the tag team division, then yes.
If you're not in every three weeks month and a half,
you're just dropping titles to different tag teams than no.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
I never saw a reason why they weren't serious about
continually having a thriving tag team division. Silly me. You've
got a men's singles division, a tag team's division, a
women's division, and we already know that the women's tag
team division doesn't exist. It seems so hard to keep
three divisions thriving.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
While we're talking tag teams. Has aw done Private Party wrong?

Speaker 2 (32:17):
I am far fetched to believe that anyone that still
gets paid money for not working can be done wrong.
And that is probably one of the more peculiar stories
because from the time that Private Party has been gone,
like there was rumors about Russov, there's been rumors about
Scorpio Ski, rumors about Keith Lee, about whether it was house,

(32:40):
whether there was creative pitch to them. I have not
heard why Private Party has been off TV since they
dropped the titles, and I have not heard if they
were pitched creative and denied it or what the story
is behind them, so to say that they were do
a disservice. I would need more information to be able
to get that definition or response.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Uh, that's not exactly what I meant when I asked
the question. Let me pull something up here. So you
had Private Party when the aw Tag Team titles. That
happened on October thirtieth, twenty twenty four. They beat the
Young Bucks, they get they even though the Young Bucks

(33:24):
are heels, they get the Young Bucks seal of approval,
the hug in their You're a made tag team. Now
three months later you have them lose to the lose
those titles to the Hurt Syndicate. And while I'm sure
they've been on TV since then, I can't remember anything

(33:45):
Private Party has done so so maybe done them wrong,
not the right phrasing, missed opportunity like you went to
the obviously now whether you're trying to get them to
resign or whatever, or showed that you cared. Not only
do they beat the young Bucks, but you have the
young Bucks strap the belts on them and give them

(34:07):
the Atta boy. I don't think you capitalized on that.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Oh did they capitalize on the moment?

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Yeah, yes, Okay, you're correct on that one.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
That's what I meant by that. I didn't mean like
f over contract why, I just meant do them wrong
by but with the creative because it seemed like you
were all in no pun intended on them, not saying
they should have beat the Hurt Syndicate, but I'm just saying,
whatever love you had for them when they beat the
Bucks and the Bucks strapped the titles on them, that's

(34:39):
all gone. Storyline wise, that's all gone.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Now I'm guessing. Yeah, I'm guessing that. And this is
all speculation, but that the contract negotiation, it feels like
that maybe the title run was a hey, you're coming up,
we'd like to extend you, and the Young Bucks said no.
And again I love how the WWE just happens to

(35:04):
have these interests and all these talents that are still
under contract and it just kind of, you know, slips out.
So I wonder how much the talents know about it.
Either way, I'm just gonna allude to we're not sticking
around for long and that possibly led to why we
didn't see them. You could have done more with them,
You could have capitalized more, But could you if they

(35:24):
weren't winning the tag team titles? Maybe you somehow insert
them into working with Swerve and being in the clunculum
ration and maybe they end up in like Anarchy and
the Arena something like that. But I don't know how
much more you were going to do, because there's a
limit to who's gonna get spotlighted in the tag team
division with FTR being the spotlight of one show and

(35:48):
hurts into being the spotlight of another.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Right well, and look when is FTR might be the
best tag team in that company. It ain't like they're
having a lot of titles the But yes, the Bucks
were champs. They drop it to Private Party. Say what
you want about the Bucks. They don't go out of
their way to insert themselves in the tag team title picture.

(36:15):
Here's and this negates every argument I just made when
we were talking about WWE. But if you're WWE and
your big plan to revitalize the tag team division in
addition to MotorCity Machine Guns and d I Y and
whatever rejuvenated, do so is signing private Party. I think

(36:36):
you're not knocking Private Party here, but but I think
there's a there's a pretty low ceiling on them. If
that's your big move, your big outside signing, bring in
private party, I would just call up TNA and say, hey,
can I borrow the Nimuth Brothers for a while? Okay,
can we have the Hardys come work? Because if it

(37:00):
parties your big move to solidify the tag team division,
I think you're doomed to fail on that, and maybe
you shouldn't even bother trying.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Every thought I always have about the WWE resolves back
to you waste all this money on this giant fucking
building in Florida called the Performance Center. I get coaches
and people in there that could create the guys that
you need on the main roster. Cuz there's some things
that surprise me, Like this was a while ago and
I can't remember all the names that were on there.

(37:32):
But do you know how how long Trick Williams has
been at the Performance Center for him in lash Legend
his partner a while? Seven years? Yeah? How long do
you think a pro wrestler's running WWE is going to
be like Ray the Stereo hangs around for twenty one
years and that's an epic run. Right, You got some

(37:52):
people hanging around at the Performance Center that are getting
six seven years out of learning how to be a
w D entity, and it feels like that process from
this mega giant that is able to create these prototypical superstars,
and you're all looking to work the WWE style. It

(38:13):
feels like this should be a three to four year
process for them, and we shouldn't be as reliant for
this giant to be looking at what free agents we
can bring in to boaster our roster, because we know
that's always there for them. But it feels like a
lot of the options should be in house when you
create your own farm system.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Well, then that's not to say it's not though I'm
looking up something on Shreig Williams here, are you insinuating
he would have been better off working for HOG and
CZW for the last seven years.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
I'm insinuating for the WWE that it's a that the
Performance Center is a waste, that we don't get enough
return on the investment that they make on the plethoras
of athletes that hang out there that we on the
main roster, or even NXT for that point.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Trick Williams made is NXC debut in twenty twenty one,
so he's been there for four years just on NXT right,
and it took three years to get there? Did it
take three years to get there?

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Seven years? Is what I was told. He was in
the performance center and that was like a month ago
when I saw this, and it highlighted like seven eight
athletes that had been there for within five to seven years.
And I remember Trick Williams and last Legend at that
seven year were at the top of it.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
How many indie wrestlers with four to seven years experience
are getting signed to the WWE main roster.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Well, that's no one, because you're an indie wrestler and
then you get to go to NXT to learn this style.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
So right, So basically they're wasting four to seven years
if the goal is if the goal is WWE.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, And that's why I think WWE as a company
that's worried about cost cutting and their budgets so long
as we hear them talk about so often waste money
when you could let those guys for four to seven
years learn how to wrestle on the independence and then
come learn that WWE style versus paying them for those
three to four years, which you're paying them reportedly fifty

(40:17):
to eighty thousand dollars, which they're never making on the
independen scene, so you're paying them well over what any
other promoter would pay them to get this experience. I'm
just looking at as a mathematical thing, thinking that WWE
wastes money on the performance center for the return from
what we get because the best, some of the best
people that we've seen come out of the performance center,

(40:39):
Kevin Owens, Finn Baylor, people that had all this crazy
international experience. Anyway, as we're talking about signing those guys.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Go wrestlers years old.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
No, look, no wrestlers are the best pro wrestlers, making
me think that the performance center is a waste for
how much you put into the NILS that don't reach
that level.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
I agree with you from the standpoint of I think
there's value in wrestling on the independence wrestling in other companies,
learning different styles, learning different ways, and then when the
WWE is ready for you learn it their way. I
do think there's something to be said for that. I
think the jury is still out on the NILS. They
haven't been around long enough. Let's revisit that one in

(41:26):
another few years. I do get what you're saying, and
for the most part, I agree with you, though there's
something to be said for the finn Balors, the Owens's,
the guys like Sammy's Ain who had already established themselves
go down to NXT for a while. And even also,

(41:46):
here's the other thing, don't confuse the Performance Center with NXT.
Two different things. Not that NXT guys don't work on
at the performance center, but you've got the wrestling school
and you've got the NXT brand, and they are different.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
And that's become even more prevalent over the last couple
of years. I was gonna say, and even think about
some of the guys have success, like dom Mysterio, he
was raised in this. He literally was embracing this his
entire life.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Fed how to do this.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
There's a difference between just what I feel like they're
wasting and we're like, oh, if they bring in private party.
And it also was to well, if they never stopped
taking the focus off of the tag team division, you
wouldn't have to revitalize the division. And when we say that,
it's like, well, how much did you invest in AOP
and the Viking Raiders before the first time you cut them?

(42:36):
I mean, there's been times where the black and yellow
brand of NXT had a more exciting tag team division
than the main roster. And and no one is to
blame for the lack of investment from the fans in
the tag team division than WW creative. No, every one's

(42:57):
that stopped investing in it a great place.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Agree. Hold on, you're operating on the illusion that this
is the last five to ten even fifteen year thing.
WWE's lack of interest in tag team wrestling. This goes
back much further than that. This goes back pre Attitude era,
where all right, this, I hate tag team wrestling. Sean Marty,

(43:25):
we're splitting you up. Brett Anvil, We're splitting you up.
Good luck to one of you. And right like, tag
team division has always been secondary there and I should
say always, but from probably early nineties.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
That's where I go with, you can't do anything to
make me care about the tag team division because you
told me for three decades they've done everything to talk
enough it doesn't matter. So I'm just done being invested
in that. Eschi.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
I find it interesting that and this is more of
a fan thing than the company saying. But the the
people who knock AEW for booking to the sickos and
the Internet wrestling fans and all that, and WWE just
books the WWE fans. Well, if you're just booking the
WWE fans, why are you going to try to say

(44:14):
tag team wrestling matters when you've told them for decades
that it doesn't. You're obviously trying to book to the
Internet wrestling fans, aren't you?

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Do you buy into the theory real I quick bringing
up the tag team division that at money in the bank,
Grande Americano was a homeboy from from the Creeds or
whatever American Alphas tag team is. It was Julius, It
wasn't Chad Gable. There was no tattoo on the neck.

(44:46):
It was a different body, a lighter complexion. People are
saying they feel there's two Grande out there.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Are you insinuating, oh, stop the ball, that Chad Gable
is grind one day Americano.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
I'm not insinuating. We're all telling you he's at least
one of the two performers under the mask. Just to
tell you, curry Man was Christopher Daniels. The same thing
with Shark Boy.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Okay, Christopher Daniels was Shark Boy.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
At least sometimes he was. He was never Shark Boy,
not he was on a fews. Oh wait now, sorry,
he was a suicide. He was curry het suicide.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Who was the third one?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
There was a third one under a mask that already
was an impact I can't remember, but he was another
person under a mask too, But yes, yes, Chad Gable
maybe one part of Americano. Do you think Julius Creed
is the other part of Americano or do you think
there's just one Americano.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
I haven't given it a fucking second thought because the
only time there's a second Grande Americano is when it's
needed because of injury or something, or someone needs to
do a run in. It can't be under the hood. Yeah.
I don't give two fucks if one of the Creed
brothers is occasionally broad day Americano. To be completely honest

(46:02):
with you.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Kind of how I feel about their whole fucking tag
device as much as they give to it. Fair point, okay,
But what I was starting to care about and don't
injury may take it away from us. The Judgment Day
implosion was getting good. Do you think the dislocated shoulder

(46:23):
or whatever happened with liv Morgan could uprid the unrest
and kind of audible this story as.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
We record, we don't know the severity of the injury,
and if it's super severe shned surgery, you're probably looking
at over a year. If it's not anything that serious,
and she can still be on TV and not perform
on she's healing up. Whatever your Judgment Day plans were,
with some minor modifications you can still do. If it's

(46:54):
something that's going to keep her out indefinitely, then you
probably got to go back to the drawing board.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
I wonder because it might even enhance the story.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Good.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Now, what if Roquel Rodriguez is allowed to use the
three Bird rules and Roxane Petes in Judgment Day is
helping to defend the women's tag team titles, Finn Balair
is now able to get into Roxanne's head or not Roxanne,
Roxanne and Finn are able to get into Roquel's head,

(47:26):
and now Live is truly starting to be alienated from
the group. I kind of like that dynamic, and the
injury can kind of push it forward.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah, I could be yeah, yeah, I know, I don't
hate any of that. I'm impressed, and I actually mean
this as a compliway. This will come off as typical
carl Ale being an ahole. I'm impressed with how much
thought you put into something you don't really like and
because and like good stuff. I don't hate that idea
at all. I was just surprised you came up with

(47:59):
it now, right right, Yeah, that you put the effort,
and not surprised that you came up with something good.
You do that all the time. I just mean that
something that's not your favorite thing to watch, I think
is more than fair to say you put a lot
of thought into that.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Yeah, I really feel like this could enhance it. And
that is probably the most intriguing storyline to me in WWE.
The slide context on Dom's maturation, Finn's connivingness in the background,
the relationship between Live and Rockelle. You even saw the
looks that Raquel was giving Finn because she doesn't trust him.

(48:38):
There's a lot of context in there acting that's adding
things together to me where I feel like in a
lot of the other storylines we're lacking extra intrigue in
elements Like their story to me is if you love
WWE and you say it's about the story elements, that's
why we love. What's going on with Judgment Day it's

(48:58):
a full story element.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, yeah, I think so dominate My serious about to
be a star, by the way, but that's neither here
nor there, I guess. For For for now, let's get
back to murder and the murder on TV we saw
this past week Kenny Omega. If we find out Wednesday

(49:26):
night Kenny Omega is still alive, then wrestling's fake and
I may never watch again because that man got murdered.
He was splitting up that deep internal blood and it
was a gushing He took an arse whooping. I never
knew you never totally healed from diverticuliti surgery and that,

(49:50):
you know, one blow to the midsection and everything explodes
in there. But Kenny Omega's if Kenney Omega shows up
on TV or wrestles in the next six months, then
you put way too much effort into that just to
set up this match that it already set up itself.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
We need like two weeks, ken You Omega can't come
back till right before double or nothing. So I know
that's like still too sin but yeah, all in excuse me,
but it were three weeks out from it, four weeks.
He has to come back just like right before the match.
I guess that's Smart's so much blood.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
That's my problem here. Look, I'm fine with with doing
that angle. Fine, Kenny's taking three months off.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
I'm fine with a little blood packet. And it needs
to be like a ketchup packet worth of blood, not
like the chup bottle.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Hold on, first, you're trying to tell me that Chad
Gable is Godda Americana, And now you're trying to tell
me that might not have been real blood. The fuck
are you on? Micah?

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Well, if we had a sponsor, I would tell you,
but they ain't pay me so much. That's for another day.
You guys can find that out with somebody cuts a
damn check.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
But uh, ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Just getting after it to wow. But in all seriousness,
that was a little bit overkill to further solidify this
match that's coming up in three weeks again, everybody already
wanted to see it. You're booking to the sickos the internet. Ok, Okay,

(51:21):
I saw you had to say. You know, we didn't Honestly,
we didn't need callous, we didn't need any of that
other shit, and we'd all been fine. If you want
to add that stuff that just makes it better. That's okay,
But I didn't need fucking Kenny Omega flatlining on the
goddamn mats while they were bringing out a fucking stretcher

(51:41):
and then he's gonna be there in three weeks. Need
what doctor is signing If fucking Brian Danielson says he's
still not medically cleared when asked about his status for
all in and look, that might be very, very true,
but how the fuck with all that internal bleeding is

(52:02):
kiddy Omega getting cleared by any fucking quack, never mind
a legitimate doctor in three weeks that ship. If his
insides are still that delicate from the diverticulitis and and
all that shit, that man needs to be in a home.
He needs to be in traction. He needs to be
wrapped in bubble wrapping. He doesn't need to be in
a wrestling ring.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Yesterday, when we recorded MMA After Hours here in the
After Hours podcast network, I dropped like three or four
references as to why people should listen to right here
on Pro Wrestling After Hours. I don't know this kind
of episode.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
I don't know if this is the one I wanted
to courage and now those people who for the first
time this was what you wanted me to listen to
again't fuck it. It doesn't matter. It was way too
much overkill. And now Kinny Omega is gonna be there
at all in and and most be mostly fine. That's

(53:00):
a little odd to me.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Do we need to have him with the tape around
the ribs? I'm not sure if you come out there with.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
A diaper because right, because all that's gonna do is
is squeeze everything tighter. And when he starts mouth bleeding again,
it's it's gonna be like fucking Niagara Falls. Some reason
mouth bleeding is getting better than mouth bleeding, oh faithful
or some ship it's meant goddamn guyser.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
So you're excited for Okada Omega? I was, Oh, I
still am, well.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Not with fragile ass kiddy Omega. I'm kidding. I wonder
if they don't wind up moving that match to all
out either all out or what are they doing in
London this year? Because all out Canada? What's London forbidden door? Yeah?
I think yeah? Or in all seriousness, they went way

(53:56):
heavy on the blood. I don't know how storyline wise,
are supposed to believe Kenny Omega is going to be
fineing three weeks to wrestle, and that ae AW doctors
will clear him to wrestle. And after that man probably
had to get a transfusion from all the blood he
threw up.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
All right, aw listen to me. It is implorative this
week that whatever arena you're in, we need Kenny Omega
on a bed. We need a monitor, you need a life,
you need something check out seven still live. We need
him in a legit looking hospital. Apparently I will be there.
We can't have a walking talking We need to go

(54:32):
old school in the hospital just before mister McMahon is
beat up by a bedpand you need to look like
you're dying. That's what Kenny Omega needs to look like.
Cutting a promo this week? Is that? Overkiller? Is that
the right direction we got on the mend? Still know
me after you?

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Honestly, I hate hoky stuff like that, So I'd rather
just get a medical update from from somebody on his status.
I'll tell you what though, if I'm Kiddy Omega in
the news from earlier this week, apparently AEW not a
safe place to work, a lot of workplace issues. I'm

(55:09):
looking around that locker room for a really good attorney
that I could hire to represent me when I sue
the company for allow me to get my ass beat
like that and was spewing blood like it was going
out of style. Had to a flat look flat lines
there on the mats. You know, he flat lined at
least twice in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

(55:30):
He might still be in a medically induced coma. Who
the fuck knows. But if I'm Kiddie Omega, there's only
one man to represent me and my lawsuit against aaw
for this hostile work environment. Frank Mortos.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Contact Blue Cross and a Blue Shield of Canada if
you'd like to see if you're a match to Kenny
Omega to give him a transfusion.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
It does he still live in Canada, because if he does,
he's got that that that free healthcare. So I mean,
it might take a while to get treated, but once
he does, that's good.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
I don't know if you lived in Japan, still, wouldn't
it be like a killer flight every week to get
back here for work.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Well, I didn't know if he was like living in
fucking Omaha or something these days, because it was more convenient.
I don't know Omaha center. No, it was just a
center of the country somewhere. I don't know. If you
want to be discreet and heal up from those massive
internal injuries. They are worse places in Omaha. What kind
of trouble you're gonna get into in Nebraska? My man?

Speaker 2 (56:35):
I just don't know how many golden lovers there are
in Nebraska.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
There might be one, a lot of corn lovers. Use
one of those who stop the bleeding, shove it down
his goddamn throat. No more bleeding for you can't he
I'm sorry that was I wish your shocked, Like, my god,
they just murdered Kenny Omega. Oh my god, you yes,

(57:01):
you bastards.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
I'm still entertained by it. I'm still intrigued by it,
but I get you're you're feeling that it was gross
over kill and not to mention, like to follow up,
I was just like, was it blood night? Because Swerve
landing the forearm? I know we already brought it up
earlier across Ospay and Osprey spinning out him like is
tonight's show brought you by blood? There's just a just

(57:28):
blend Organs just.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Giving it up. I was just picturing the p s
a ae W and the conjunction with the American Red
Cross encourages you to give blood Today, bloodmobiles will be
set up outside of venues at AW events for our

(57:50):
fans to give blood. Blood helps to help the American
Red Cross BLA blay. And meanwhile, you gotta fucking run
out to the goddamn blood mobile because Kinney Omeggage threw
up another pint. Fucking Moxley just scorted it a pint
and a half out of his forehead.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Um.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yeah, so so yeah, you're really not helping America. You're
helping AEW by replenishing the blood supply that their wrestlers
keep losing.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Is John Moxley unassumingly herculean in what way? I didn't
think he could push so hard? Isn't he being sued
for pushing?

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Oh yeah, that's a weird one man. Because the guys
only asking for like twenty five grand I don't know why,
just pay him to go away, But because you guys.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Are probably looked at the video like you're fucking kidding me, Well, yeah,
but AW is gonna spend more than that on law
your fees, even if they hire Frank Mortos, but Morto's
might be represented the other guy.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
I've just made that one go away, that that would
have been easy to pay his medical give him something,
and get the fuck out of here. Look, I'm all
about your principles. And if you really feel like, look,
we did nothing wrong here, this guy's milking this blah
blah blah, and you got more money than you know
what to do with, then it might be worth it
to spend fifty thousand dollars to keep for paying this

(59:17):
guy twenty five thousand. By the way, they're probably going
to spend more than fifty. But that's neither here nor there.
I've just made that one go away. Look that the
guy could have landed wonky. It wasn't a super hard push. Now,
if he wasn't expecting it, maybe he wasn't prepared to
take I don't know. I don't want to say that.
I'll just say that looking at it, you'd be surprised

(59:40):
that the injuries he's claiming he received could have happened
from that. But if we're being really fair to him
and being really honest, it's not out of the realm
of possibility. Even if it is highly unlikely.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Highly unlikely is the way that we feel about it.
Didn't think that as crazy and wild as John Moxley is,
that he was that persark in the mod Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
While we're talking about tag teams that need to get
back together really quick, let's get our plug in for
the week. Bring back the damn acclaimed Bowen's is a
single cast or as a single, it just ain't working.
Put him under a damn hood let him be el
Grande Americ claim, Oh, I don't care, wwe may care.

(01:00:26):
You may have come up with something else. Vini Amera
CLAIMO or something. I don't know. It just ain't working.
Put them back together.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Viny AMERICLAIMO, I.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Don't, I don't know. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
It's not working. It's hard for both of them. It's
harse all the way around for everyone. Real quick, real quick. Yeah,
we had brought up John Moxley. I didn't even get
to it. There were two moments that I loved. Hangman
Page walks into the arena, Christopher Dangles and him have
the interaction. And then the unassuming guy because there's always

(01:01:03):
a production guy around is John Moxley and the death writers.
That was some judgment day level storytelling with some of
the behind the scenes shit this week incorporating the Death
Writers that I felt was a big enhancement to them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
For as bad as they screwed up, I feel like
this storyline early on, I feel like they've been doing
some really good stuff the Death Writers, and I would
add what you just brought up to that. I'll also
say this, I haven't always been the biggest Adam Page fan. Hangman.

(01:01:44):
I still don't think it happens, but I could at
this point pretty easily convince myself that he's walking.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Out of all In with the title, they've done it
for you, and they've pitched enough scenarios we're going deep
enough with. Could the death writer threat be so grand
that you're able to align with former foes?

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
But by the way, not only are we obviously Micah,
he said, tongue in cheek, in danger of losing Omega
Okata off of all In? How the Funk's will Osprey
coming back in three weeks after taking the the double
super kick with the thumbtacks to to to the face
to safe swerve.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Strickling Osprey ospray that's so, I don't know his mistiness
will figure out a way to get him there. She
is resourceful. She fixed that hair, and no one thought
that was possible.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Well that's that's a fair point. But let's not lose
sight of this Osprey Strickland going to the time. That
was the hell of a match, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
That was spectacular. That was some pay per view level
TV wrestling. I mean, that was that was more than
worth the price of admission just on its own. I
thought that was incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
How about this, So the Hangman thing you brought up backstage,
that happens before the death Riders come out to surround
the ring when the Bucks are taken out Swerve and
Osprey jumps in and all that. Right, Yeah, it did.
The part where they bring out Hangman after having attacked

(01:03:23):
him at the beginning happens like three or four segments later,
way down after the Hurt Syndicate segment. Who the fuck
was watching Hangman keeping him from running away while they
were all out there surrounding the ring to keep anybody
from interfering while the Bucks were doing their descardly needs
on Swerve.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
I'm gonna assume they had him tied to a chair
in a broom closet.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
You still got somebody watching the door. If you're smart,
there's a hole in that logic.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Man, I know that's saw a hole in the logic.
But at least they did, you know, really quickly skulk
away after giving the bucks the shoes. So who was like, well,
why are they running off? Because they had to go
check on their hayman.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
I guess now could work? Couldn't work?

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
I understand where you if you don't like it, But
do you like Grande? Well we've already said Grande Americano enough,
I mean he's MJF Americano. Now he's a I feel
like he does the Born and be An American song
better than Sean O'Malley. Oh that's a MMA after hours
wrestling's reference here. But Mystico a whole lot of MJF,

(01:04:39):
whole lot of hurt syndicate. Mystico is gonna lose right
to MJF and Arena Mexico. Where has MJF taped the
lost because he's made man.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
I can see MJF taking the loss. Uh, not necessarily cheating,
but like something fluky, a roll up body press, roll
through something and then Mistico getting the hell beat out
of him and some other Lucas come down to save him.
I could see something like that, but I don't. I

(01:05:13):
think that's a bigger deal for the crowd in Mexico
than it's going to be for the American fans watching
it on TV.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
I'm so slightly just interested to see how it plays out,
But I don't think MJF loses. Kyle Fletcher b Bowens.
Like you said, Bowenes looks painful. FTR has insulted Lucha's
some of that feels kind of painful. Anyway, Tony Storm

(01:05:41):
beat Julia. I like that match, the Mercedes Monette interaction,
she gets the last laugh at the end. Is this
building up the right way?

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Yes, because if this for another company, I wonder if
I'd look at it this way. But the Mercedes, while
maybe not like imposing like a Jade Car Gill, a
Meghan Bain or anything, she's been built as this monster
in terms of winning. Maybe she cheats to win, maybe

(01:06:20):
there's roll up, maybe it a handful of tights, whatever.
So in a way, Tony Storm is the underdog here,
even though she's a multi time aw Women's champion and
the reigning defending going into this. So yeah, I look,
I also think It's pretty damn obvious, and it's probably

(01:06:42):
the right thing. Mercedes is winning here.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
The more she keeps getting over on Tony Storm, I
wonder if it's not happening, But what is all the
build up of the belt collector if she doesn't fulfill
the prophecy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Right well, if she doesn't, then she and still that
can still be request. This also isn't that different from
most of the build up to Tony Storm's other longer
feuds getting short ended on TV, short ended the stick,
short ended stake, pulling out the wind of the pay
per view. So I also don't think it's all that

(01:07:20):
different than certainly a lot of the Mariah may stuff
or whatever the hell her name is now in NXT.
But yeah, I don't have a problem with it. My
only problem is I'd rather Mercedes being action and Tony
Storm being at the commentary desk, then Mercedes being there
not really saying anything. That part.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
I can understand. There wasn't the same gravitas on the
microphone you and get that same feeling. I feel like
this is a different build up and maybe more lackluster
because there was so maybe it was sexualized, personalized, the
chemistry was different. There was just so much more behind
Mariah Tony for me than there is behind Mercedes Tony

(01:08:00):
right now at this point, And that's why I was wondering.
It feels kind of not disappointing, but maybe muted. It
just feels like a quieter built up where there felt
like there was big moments each week between Mariah and Tony.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
Yeah, I think the and that is where this is different.
I think the build more in. Maybe with Mariah you
had to do that because you had to get her
over to the aw fans. I don't think you need
to get Mercedes over. So you're building to this match
by keeping the interactions from a physical standpoint somewhat limited.

(01:08:41):
So yeah, you are doing it a little different there,
but it's because you almost had to do that with
Mariah because you were trying to establish her as someone
who could take that title, and then she does take
the title. So yeah, yeah, an A Jay and I
hate when you see things on your phone and you

(01:09:03):
just read it cold.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Tay Ana J and Tay Mellow. We get that combination
back together, and I felt like this at least is
a better duo than what we were getting with Cameron
and Ana Jay just that there's more of a cohesiveness.
Do you feel like this takes in the right direction
and it's going to be easier to now see Megan

(01:09:27):
Bain just destroy the two of them.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Yes, on the second part, I don't. I'm glad time
Ellow's back. I got no problems with it. I don't
think she's particularly good inside the ring, and I think
that gets highlighted with every match, So it doesn't look
at least Harley Cameron's worked really hard to get decent

(01:09:50):
in the ring. Hey look to be fair to tyme Elo.
I know she had a kid, she was out for
a long time. You ain't popping a kid out and
then going out in the backyard, rolling around in the
ring or any I got it. But I don't think
she's particularly good, so it doesn't excite me the way
it maybe does some others.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
As we continue talking about the women, the one that
was I was looking at the notes for because I
felt like there was something I forgot to bring up
about the death writers. Chris Statlander looks to now be
lost in the wind. She was observing the Conglomeration matchup,
looking almost longingly at her former friends, and when she

(01:10:32):
turns around. There is a former friend on her shoulder,
but it's weirler da Do you see it being anything
leading to that interaction? Would it be a big mistake
if the Death Writers had now a second female in
the faction. What do you think of the Chris Statlander
addition into this little drama?

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Well, I think Marina Shaffer quickly put Wheeler in his place.
It's probably fun. I'm sorry I got distracted for a second.
I think that's sewing this. Tony Colin doesn't know how
to tell stories, long term storytelling. My man. When Mercedes
Monet beats Tony Storm for the aw Women's title, she's

(01:11:17):
gonna have to give up the TBS title, right collect
her or not? Tony Kahin loves him some tournaments. We
had to have a tournament. What if it comes down
to Statlander and Marina Shafir or Statlander and Willow Nightingale
and Shafir wants winter. I think you're just planning seeds there.
I maybe I'm wrong here. I don't think you're adding

(01:11:41):
a female another female to the Death Writers. If you are,
I don't know if it's Statlander or not.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
I at least thought it was the best moment that
Statlander had been a part of in weeks because the
random interactions and longing to just be a friend with
Willow it was wearing on me. So I thought this
was at least a step forward in the intrigue. Were
the constant Willow stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
I no, no, no, no, no, no no no no no.
I wasn't no, he got old because if she didn't
want to be your friend, she don't want to be
your friend. Stop, you know, fucking move on and find
there's a locker room full of women there who would
probably enjoy being your friend. We be friend exactly. But
it's fine. Let me ask you this, Michael, as we

(01:12:33):
start to wind down here, Mikalo made his WWE debut
last week on a main event taping. What do you
think his name is this week when he debuts on
the main roster or in a couple of weeks when
he debuts on the bain roster, Because I bet you
ate hickelko Hico.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
It's gonna be like Prince Haku Junior.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
Prince Hakou Junior. Was there a Prince Hakkou Senior?

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Wasn't there? Prince Haku?

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
He was just Haku. He was King Haku at one point.
I don't think he was ever a prince.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Well, okay, there will be King Haku, you will be
Prince Hicco. The thing they're gonna somehow like changes I
don't know, a year in the performance center. Hopefully he
gets the WWE style. Definitely think it'll be an enhancement
to the Solo Socoa faction when they separate from Jacob Fatu.
Then now there is a second enforcer. WW really liking

(01:13:24):
these three man factions.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Yeah, I uh, is there a like they're in the
process of finalizing the deal to buy Triple A. Yeah,
that's still not official. Is there a Samoan promotion they
can buy for j C. Matteo, Solo Socoa, Tomatonga Togoloa, Hicoleo,

(01:13:48):
Jimmy J. Roman, Who am I missing? So on and
so on down the line, so on and so on
down the bloodline.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
I thought you're gonna say so on and so on? Fatu? Sure,
I mean they probably exist out there. Also, there's a
lot of bloodline. They will never stop the bloodline from
going around. It now looks like Jacob Fatu is gonna
be his own man, So we'll see how that's interesting.

(01:14:20):
And yeah New Japan guy is all heavy muscle to
solo Sokoa. Yeah, yeah, the comedian gets muscle. I mean,
at least his muscles tough for them with Ricochet's looking
at with Blake and Lee Johnson, nobody's scared of those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Oh god, no, all right, fuck it. It's probably a
good way to end. Who do you ultimately seeing see
being a part of Ricochet's faction.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
The Gates of Agony? Eh, I don't know if we
get better than that? I mean, are you hoping it's
the acclaimed and they get back together and leave daddy ass?
Who would you throw out there as a tag team
or two men?

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
I in all honesty, I don't hate the Gates of
Agony idea, other than it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Feels like we're doing spurve in our glory once again
or whatever swerves faction was.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Well, it's just it's they're not always used in the
best light, so I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
They will be looked at us less than and it
won't be a great enhancement to Ricochet. I don't know.
Does he try to go take over Big Bill and
warm up to Brian Keith? Will Chris Jericho is still
a way I'd.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Like to see him trying to recruit. God damn, I
can't think of it. Suttin them sing, just that that
interaction backstage.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
What was up with the blaming sand for a lack
of act? And then we got to see Jay Leath
have one. Do you think that was just like, Hey,
we're gonna try something. We'll see how the fans react
to it. If we get a reaction, we'll continue.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
I think we've seen Jay Lethal lose twice since then.
I don't think we've seen Jeff Jared on TV at all,
nor have we seen Stottanham. So, yeah, was it really
Sanjay's fault? I gotta think it wasn't right?

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
And then they just kind of dropped and start started
stopped it. I'm not really sure what to make of it.
WWE King of the Ring, Queen of the Ring going on?
Do you feel like you know who's gonna be royalty yet?

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
I haven't given it a lot of fault.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
I was gonna go with Jay us so until you
were so sure he was going to become Jimmy's brother.
So we'll just go with the same old answer. Cody Rhodes,
I don't know if I see that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Let me look at the damn men's right. Guess so
we got Orton and Sammy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
Sammy's moment finally he might become King of the Ring. Yeah, Cody, Yeah,
King Sammy. Okay, King Sammy. Here's something you get out
of New York DELI.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
All right, never mind, we're not ending on Ricky Chet's faction.
We're ending on this. Why did you have seth Rawlins
win money in the bank? Why do you have Cody
Rhodes and Jay So for that matter, but especially Cody
and the King of the Ring deal here, it makes

(01:17:44):
a fucking all Cody Roose has got to do is
come out and say I want a title shot. All
seth Rollins has got to do is I want a
title shot. Keep guys who haven't been champion before. And yeah, look,
you could say the same thing about Orton. I can't
re remember the last time Whorton was world champion, so
that one I'll kind of overlook. But j just lost

(01:18:06):
his title, Cody just lost his a couple of months ago.
Why are they in this tournament again?

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
I like how the Random Mystery Surprise edition on Monday
Night was just Jayo's so and everyone, oh, everybody way. Yeah,
eat down the farm, five little piggies in the last
one one you eat all the way home and we
just kind of accepted it. Oh he just lost. Of course,
he's right back in there as the number one contender. No,
a tournament with Damian Priest and La Night and everybody

(01:18:38):
from the mid card would have made a lot more
sense because then you're elevating somebody. I don't know what
we're doing there with the heavyweight division.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
Yeah, and on the women's side, I think the winner
of Jade and Roxan Perez wins that they'll beat the
winner of Alexa Bliss and Oscar.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
I'm holding out hope for for rox and Perez. Obviously,
is kry saying in there? Or was it not a
tournament match? The thing with liv.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
Uh no, she hold on me weird here to see?

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
So Cargo.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
Cargo No kry Sin lost to or wrestled Rhea in
the tournament.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
Oh okay, So that would mean that Charlotte Oscar is
the other match, right or no?

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
According to the ww brackets, you got Roxanne Cargill and
you got Bliss and Oscar Bliss.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
And Oscar yea, yeah, sorry Bliss in Oscar. That's what
it was Bliss, not Charlotte. I guess I'm going with
Roxanne Petis.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
I want to go Cargill, but I think I think
they have some buyers remorse on Jade, and I think
Roxanne is part of a bigger storyline, bigger things going on.
It makes sense for her to win.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
I just want to give the more competent wrestler the victory,
independent of what financial commitments or physical attributes you may
thinks she has.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
I was going to go with the better worker, okay,
but if you're giving it to them anyway, does it
matter that they're actually a better worker. Again, we're not
talking about the Colorado Rockies dumblocking their way into winning
a three game series for the first time all year
two weeks ago. We're talking theater. We're talking Fuck Tom,

(01:20:40):
Tom Cruise hanging off the side of a plane in
another mission, a possible movie.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
If it was that easy for the theater to work,
we'd care about Jade Cargill and not have these trepidations
and putting her in this spot. Anyway, Well, you do.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
Have to look good, and oh doyt, she looks like
Look why she looks good? Work wise? It's a work
in progress.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
And that is why the WWE confuses me sometimes because
it is the upper highest echelon standard and then we
look at a lot of things going on and we're like,
it's a they're a work in process, and it just
it hurts me for the uh, for the people that
are a work in process that you know, you you

(01:21:25):
see talents that I think we throwed. We throw it
around a lot on the MMA After Hour show. There's
a UFC level right then there's everything else here and
there's everything else and that is real because when you
get to the UFC level, we see guys take losses
and be not ready for that level. The WWE level

(01:21:47):
is over exaggerated in that same terminology is more of
where I was trying to get at as you look puzzled.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Oh, No, I was curious because I'm not saying you're wrong,
and hell, I might even saying I disagree with you
on your assessment of Jade Cargill, but I'm curious if
you feel that way about her, how do you feel
about Meghan Bain?

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Oh? I think that Megan Bain is appropriately slotted right
now for a very green worker that has a great
look because she gets emphasis and the story that she's in.
But does the story matter for the world title? Got
just the story really matter for the show as an overall?
And where does she fit in the hierarchy of the division.

(01:22:31):
She's not in Queen of the Ring, She's not actually
sniffing Tony Storm or Mercedes. I think when she did
have a higher interaction, they very quickly relegated her back
to the level that she deserves to be. If Jade
was in NXT, I probably wouldn't have a problem with her,
But their financial commitment to her and their desire to
put her in the place that she is not ready

(01:22:53):
for is the overriding problem I have with her, not
her how they are forcing her. Gotcha the same problem
problem I had with Roman Reigns for years when he
was not ready. That you said, eventually you're gonna digest
him because we're just gonna keep shoving him down your throat.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
I got you, all right? Anything else, If you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Disagree with any of that, it's at frankl Micah on
X to argue with me about pro wrestling, because we
love to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
And once we hear about funeral arrangements for Kinny Omega,
We'll be sure to pass that in full along on
the shows X at PW After Hours. You can also
get me at Real Mike Carlisle. We will talk to
you next week. Rip Kenny pours.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
Them out for the Homie.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
Yes for another episode of Pro Wrestling After Hours here
on the After Hours Podcast Network