05/07 Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast With Jason Powell (Episode 358): WWE Backlash predictions and WWE talent cuts talk with Zack Heydorn

The Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast with Jason Powell features Brass Ring Media and SI.com's Zack Heydorn returning to preview the WWE Backlash event and discuss the latest round of WWE talent cuts...

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Jason Powell's Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. Hey, production
of Pro Wrestling dot Net. Get ready for the latest news,
analysis and interviews featuring big names from the world of
pro wrestling.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Here comes the Boom.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Thank you. Paul Allen, radio voice of the Minnesota Vikings.
Check out his sports talk radio show at kfan dot com.
I tried to today and somebody gave Paul Allen a vacation.
What's going on, man? I needed an update on the
Paul's perspective on last night's Timberwolves playoffs game and he
was nowhere to be found. But I'm sure he'll be
back next week and I'm hoping he's having a wonderful vacation.

(00:57):
I would not know what those are, and I don't
think my guests today really knows either. But he will
be traveling, but it's a work travel assignment. He will
be going to WWE Backlash coming up on Saturday. I'll
be covering it at dot net. He is the one
and only. Zach Haydorn from Sports Illustrated SI dot com
as well as Brass Ring Media. Welcome back.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
Thanks so much for having me, Jason. It's a blast.
I was intently watching your Timberwolves last night and I
had some money on the on the Wolves, and you know,
it didn't come through. It didn't come through. But I
still think long term, this is their series, man, this
is this is for them to take, especially with Steph

(01:41):
on the bench.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
I am the worst Timberwolves fan ever. Yeah, I'm a
hockey guy, and like there have been time like Wade
and I used to go to game. Waid Keller and
I would go to games. He's a huge fan and
I always had fun. But it was after spree Well
and Cassell laughter. I just threw my hand and I'm
like this work ocation. They're going nowhere, and you know,

(02:03):
I mean obviously they've gotten really good sense then, and
I'm happy, but I just being such a big fan
of the Wild, like I rarely miss a Wild game,
But I can't really do both. You know. Now, I
could jump on the bandwagon, but I'd almost feel guilty
doing it.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
Hey, you know what, they could use a little luck
after last night, so maybe maybe they need you, Like
will you check them out if they like make finals
or something like that, or it's just you're not a fan.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, I mean I don't want to be that guy
that jumps on the bandwagon. But like, if there's I
don't know when the hell that would be. But if
there's actually an open night that doesn't conflict with wrestling,
yeah I would probably turn a game on in the
background or something. But yeah, I'm just I'm almost afraid
to get really into it, and then next season I
have to try to keep up with both teams. I

(02:49):
just don't have the time.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
I understand, I understand, I adopt other NBA teams. I
love the NBA, but boy, it's hard to be a
Bulls fan these days. So you know, I just watched
good basketball when I can.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
If it makes you feel better. Before the Wolves were
a thing, or at least in the very early they
they were awful. Why bothered days? I was a Knicks
fan and those Bulls, Wow, they really did a number
on the Knicks.

Speaker 4 (03:15):
We did, we did. They've since Payton returned the favor,
but that was at a high level that we kind
of did the Nicks in. So yeah, the nineties Bulls
will always have that over the New York sits.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Screaver and over again. The Bulls didn't do it, the
Pacers did. It was just it was frustrating such a
good team. But yeah, when you run into a juggernaut
like the Bulls, there's not much you can do well.
Speaking of juggernauts, WWE, they made some talent cuts, so
I definitely want to get into discussing WWE backlash, but

(03:47):
I want to start with the talent cuts that took place.
I think they started on Friday, and they probably were
all made on Friday. We just had some that were
slow to trickle out as far as people spreading the
word that they've been cut, or just source of saying it.
Here's the quick list of Ron Stroman, Katana Chance, Kayden Carter,
Dakota Kai, Shannon Besler, Kora Jaide Gg Dolan, Jakara Jackson,

(04:09):
Eddie Thorpe, Riley Osbourne, the Gallus trio of Mark and Joe,
Coffee and Wolfgang or Omensa, Javier Bernald, Danny Palmer, and
then those were all talent cuts. As far as we know,
Shatzi was informed that her contract won't be renewed, so
that's where things stand as far as the cuts are concerned.

(04:30):
Does anyone jump off the page to you is like, ohow,
I can't believe they let this person or these people.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Go, you know, not really not really. I think if I,
if you like, forced me to name and name, I
would say that Kora Jade was surprising just because she's
you know, been in the system a long time. She's
you know, somebody that they they really liked or have
liked to put out there as you know, somebody who

(04:56):
watched WWE as a child and then just got into
the business and now is living her dream and having
these moments. And you know, she just was in key
or semi key roles in NHT for much of her
time up there. So that would be the only one
that I would say is like a tad surprising, But
not because I think that she necessarily has all this

(05:20):
incredible value to the company. I mean, when you look
at this list, as unfortunate as it is for anybody
to lose their to lose their jobs and to have
to you know, have their their life uprooted that way
and make pivots and things of that nature, you don't
ever want to see that or cheer for that. But
you know, from a strictly business perspective, you know, there's

(05:42):
nobody on this list that I think, you know, I'm
worried if I'm paula Vec or somebody going to a
w or and becoming something massive. I don't see any
like sore strickt ones in this bunch. I just I
just I just don't. And you know, it's part of business.
It's part of every business, not just WWE. So as

(06:03):
fortunate as this is, you know, nothing really nothing really
shocked me here.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
No, I'm with you. I mean there's some name like
I'm a little surprised, but nothing like, wow, they actually
got rid of this person. Horror. I'd been here even
before the cuts, like going back probably over a year now,
just some rumblings of some maturity issues and you know,
she's young, right, it happens, Lord knows it. When I was,
I think she's twenty four, I had maturity issues and

(06:30):
some might guys still do. And then Gigi Dole and
I know there was some work ethic talk at one point.
It may have improved, I guess, just kind of looking
at the list, the one that may be surprised me
the most is actually Jakara Jackson, because I thought she
and Last Legend had a pretty good thing going. I
think Jakara has a good look. I think she's thirty

(06:52):
and I thought she was getting improving all the time.
So does that one stand out at all to.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
You well as somebody that definitely improved for sure, I mean, no,
no question that has that she improved throughout her time
in NXT. At the same time, you know, I think
it's more of like in that case, the way I
look at it is it's like addition by subtraction for
lash Legend, like I think that they see something in her,

(07:19):
and you know, it's better for her to be out
on her own, and so I think almost by breaking
the two of them up, you automatically give lash Legend
a little bit of a higher upside because I just
think I think she and this is just more personable
preference I think than anything, but I think she has
a much higher upside than than Jakar Jackson did. So

(07:42):
so yes, improved, but also again nobody that I would,
you know, be sticking my neck out for it, like, oh,
we have to keep this person, and that's just you know,
I guess it's my personal taste, but I just I
don't see it a different way.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, and then Eddie Thorpe is one that I know,
even internally, there were some people that are not normally
in the know on these things. They just didn't. They
learned they found out when we did. It was like really,
because he'd been being pushed more than I ever had
at any point in his NXT run. He was getting
matches with Rick Williams, and I thought he held his

(08:16):
own and so I was surprised to see him go
I guess right there with Shakhar Jackson. Those are the
two I think zact that surprised me most.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, and Nannie Thorpe is someone that I felt like
I was always a little bit higher on him than
than than like than others, and I thought that there
was something there. I thought there was a charisma there,
that he had an act that was different than everybody else's.
But I also just at the same time, when you
when you watch him as different as it was, there

(08:47):
just was something, I don't know, just something missing there,
something that just didn't click. Like his inn ring was
okay but not great, the character was okay but but
not great. And you have to wonder too, like, are
any of these people getting paid more than others that
it makes sense from a financial standpoint to cut them.
I know the company is making you know, billions. But

(09:07):
you know, certainly they looked at they looked at that
in terms of who they who they decided to cut
here too. But yeah, I mean Eddie Thorpe is somebody
that I think is probably one of I don't know
two three people on that list that I think could
make an impact elsewhere, you know, like and not just
on the on the independent circuit. But you may see

(09:28):
him pop up in uh In TNA as a member
of that actual roster which now is more cast to
WWE than ever. But I think he's a guy that
people and fans may come out to see him if
he's wrestling at a GCW show or something, you know,
something like that, one of the bigger indies. Like, he's
somebody that I would keep an eye on. I don't
think he's a I think he's in his thirties, I

(09:49):
want to say. But to me, him, cor Jaide and
NJGD Dolan I think are three that I think could
make some stride with some reinvention on the independent circuit
for a little while.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Eddie Thorpe aka Carl Fredricks is thirty four. He'll actually
be thirty five in July. So yeah, it still surprises me.
I mean the age being in developmental I'm sure is
something they consider. One thing I think we always need
to remind people of too, because people just get upset
with the company anytime they You're making all this money,
how could you? I mean, there's only so many spots.

(10:27):
I don't really bind that hole. You should keep everybody
the whole, the mentality that people have. And I understand
people are fans and they like these talents, but you
don't know them in most cases, and there might be
somebody listening, go no, I do. But for the most part,
people don't know them. They don't work with them, they

(10:47):
don't supervise them, they don't know what they're dealing with.
And so just because something you see, like on the
television show impresses you, that's great, what are they like
behind the scenes. And I'm not you know, naming I'm
not pointing to anybody on this list as far as
that is concerned. I'm just saying in general, I think
that is something you always have to keep in mind
that if if it's like, why did they get rid

(11:09):
of this part, well, there might be a very good
reason they're really could you mentioned t I want to
get to them in a second, you're in Tony composition.
Anyone jumping out at you that you on your wish list.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
You know, God, this is going to sound so cold,
But no, there's not, I you know, and it's not
because necessarily I think that there's just an abundance of
bad talent there. But it's just you already have a
very big roster, and there's a lot of people on
that roster that aren't contributing as much as as much
as they should. They're shining new toys. I'm aw roster

(11:41):
right now that aren't that aren't getting used. And I
don't I don't see anybody on that list that Maybe
there's some folks that are on the same level as
people that they already have, but I don't think anybody
is like a huge, a huge, huge level. There's some upside,
you know. I think core Jade has some upside. There's
I think that she has a charisma. There there's you know,

(12:04):
I think part of you know, being a star in
any business, but it's kind of having a little bit
of a little bit bit of an attitude on you
that kind of says, hey, look this way, look at me,
you know, And I think she has that like other
stars in pro wrestling do. And she's really young, so
there's upside there, but I wouldn't be breaking bank to

(12:26):
get her either, So unfortunately, no, not at this moment.
I hope that that conversation changes in a year from
now where you're like, WHOA, look at this run that
Eddie Thorpe has had on the Independence, like get him
into the adew or Jakar Jackson or you know, or
anybody Riley Osborne, like who knows. But right now, I

(12:47):
don't think if I'm Tony kannam bending over backwards to
get any of these people, but Corey j would probably
be the tops of that list if I had to,
if I had to sign somebody.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
The Vetteran You mentioned like financial matters become an issue
when it comes to these decisions, and I got to
think it did with Bronze Troman, Shana Basler, maybe even
Dakota Kai. People that have been with the company a
long time on the main roster. I always kind of
wonder about them, is when these talent cuts occur. Because
he's been there so long and you know he's making

(13:19):
a good chunk of change, you assume, I mean, maybe
he's renegotiated and it took a bit of a cut
to stay with the company for all we know, but
in theory, somebody has long tenure that comes with races,
and so I wouldn't be at all surprised if that
was part of the decision. The Shanea wanted to surprise
me a little bit, just because I know when Tomina

(13:40):
was with the company, they loved having her there because
they considered it like having an unofficial security guard with
whatever women she was out with. You know, if they
were to go out on the town, it was like,
nobody's gonna mess with Tmena, And I would think Shane
is the same way. But you know, at age forty four,
I don't know if the you people we're going to
look to the Jade Cargill think no idea if that

(14:02):
played a factor or not. But at age forty four,
she doesn't look it. I think she's very good. I'd
like to see her in AW. I don't necessarily need
to see Four Horse Women Reunion if people have talked
to it like it just does nothing for me, Like
you want to bring in Ronda Great, you want to
bring in Shana Great. I don't need to see them
all together. But I do think that Shannon Basler would

(14:25):
add something to either AW or certainly TNA with that
knockouts division they have.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
Yeah, that's an interesting one for sure. Yeah. Like again,
of course, it depends only what she's what she's looking for.
I'm not breaking the I wouldn't be breaking the bank
for her for her, but she does. I mean, look,
she does have value. I mean, and you know, you
think about how AW in particular uses like talent like
that coming in. I mean, she could come in and

(14:52):
have a program with Tony Storm, I mean, and then
whatever happens to her after that happens to her after that,
Like if she falls down the car. I mean, we've
seen that a lot in a w for better or workers.
But she's definitely, I think, credible enough to come in
and be that person. Just from a long term perspective.
You know, she's not going to be somebody that you
build the women's around. And that's okay. That doesn't mean

(15:13):
she's not she doesn't, she's not she's not useful. And
I think you can apply the same logic to the
TNA knockouts division too. There's a lot of talent there
that she can have some pretty cool matches with Lasha Slamovich.
Is there? Uh, Tesla Blanchard is there? I mean there's
a lot of talent there that she could have good,
good matches with. And yeah, you got to wonder, like what,

(15:35):
you know, if WWE ever wants to do business with
Ronda Rousey again, does does letting go of her her
safety blanket in shadea Basler impact that decision at all?
For for for w W, well, we'll have to.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
See Dakota Kani, the world's youngest looking thirty seven year old.
She does not look thirty seven years old. She was
let go. And you know, again, I wonder if the
financial we're part of it just at being a long
tenured person with that company, and then obviously if she's
had some knee injuries as well, and so I think

(16:07):
that makes her expendable. I think she would do really
well in either company in AW or TNA. I think, Yeah,
Eddie Thorpe's wanted to watch for that braun Stroman. He
didn't really go anywhere other than the weird ass control
your narrative thing last time. If you're Tony Kahan, you

(16:29):
now have Bobby Lashley. I'm just trying to think of
people that. I mean, you can always do you know,
David versus Goliath kind of stuff with him. Is there
enough there that you can say, yeah, we could bring
I would bring him in and make him kind of
they're their giant to slay. Even if not you're not
going to put the world title on him, but just

(16:51):
do something with him. Is there anything there?

Speaker 4 (16:54):
Oh boy? I mean yeah, Like, with with the right presentation,
I think he could be, you know, kind of like
a more souped up version of like a Lance Archer
or something something like that, like somebody that just is
the big monster for someone to slay. Like you said,
you know, at the same time, people have seen just
so much of Bronze Strowman. It's I think it's hard

(17:18):
to reinvent him at this point. Like it just you know,
whenever whenever that guy runs, I'm just like, oh my god,
his knees are just gonna crumble to teeny tiny little pieces,
and and I don't know what he has left athletically
outside of just being kind of a monster he go.
So it's possible, It's definitely, it's definitely possible. But again,

(17:38):
in my eyes, it's more of who would Bronze Stroman
be displacing in aw to have that type of run,
And that's where I'm like, I just don't know that
I would replace it with anybody. I think that you
you know, you kind of have your you have people
on that roster that can deliver the same thing that
aren't and I think I would I would focus on
those on those talents first before I bought brought Bronze Strowman.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
In, what about TNA Broun specifically, and then we'll kind
of talk about them with the others. But the one
that jumps out is I think you could have a
nice program with Moose. I don't know what you do
with them much beyond that, but I think that actually
could be fun.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
So that's that is different like TNA, I think is
just a it's a different ballgame, and I think like
my analysis here would changes a little bit when it's
TNA and instead of of a w because TNA, you know,
they're based on where they are kind of in the
landscape of wrestling right now, like they're forced to kind

(18:40):
of take on some you know, older talents or talents
that have been discarded by some of the upper tier
companies and reposition them, repackages them to deliver on their
on their scale, and I think when you look at
it through that lens, a lot of these talents make
more sense than they do for a pre w Bronz

(19:00):
Stroman makes more sense. You can put him in a
match with any of your top men stars, and I
think it could be a fine, you know, a fine
pay per view level program for for that company. Same
thing with SHANEA. Basler, same thing with Dakota Kai. You know,
I think the their impact no pun intended on TNA

(19:21):
is more significant than it could be and would be
for for a company like aw SO. I think the
game changes, the narrative change when you when you put
TNA in as as that company, and I think, like
that would be the angle, Like if I were if
I were Bronze Stroman or I were Dakota Kai or SHANEA. Basler,
think I'd be looking for I'd be looking at tn

(19:41):
A pretty hard because of the connection they have back
with with WWE. I mean, we just saw, you know
last night on NXT. You know Elijah a Lot formerly
known as Elias like pop back up in NXT. It's
like a it's a shorter journey back to WWE if
you go in through through TNA. So it may it's

(20:03):
like a few steps back, yes, but you know the
door is closer than it would be if you kind
of really had to just reinvade everything that you do
on the INDs and go through that long process, and
it's just a longer journey. So I think that they
have value to TNA.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
I would say I agree with everything you said there.
I would say for some talents, I think probably better
to do a year or two in AW if you're
looking to get back, because sometimes when you can't have
something like if you sign with AW, then WWE can't
have you for as long as you sign, And if
you make a splash there, then there's always oh, well,

(20:40):
we'll rub their nose in it by bringing this person
back and making them a bigger star. That seems to
be a motivation in WWE at time. Katana Chance and
Caden Carter. If TNA is serious at all about their
knockouts Tag Division, I think they'd be a fine addition.
I like them. I still cannot believe that they didn't

(21:00):
do more with Casey Canton's arro coming off the American
Ninja Warrior thing. Which is why they signed her. I
guess she had to be trained, but I mean they
just that's why they signed her. And then they didn't
do anything with it.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yeah, no, they didn't. They really didn't. And yeah, I mean,
like especially you'd think that like that act would have
a just a long run in WWE, just because of
the lack of women's tag teams that they that they have,
and this one was one that just only existed as
a tack. It wasn't like two single stars like put together.

(21:35):
It was just their tag team. That's what they do.
And they got virtually no attention and no push, and
so yeah, that they could have some impact in TNA.
And I mean, and there's some talents like that. I
would say, you know, if you're really serious, like somebody
like Eddie Thorpe, you know, or I know, I keep
bringing up core to j but her Gigi Dolan, even
like Dakota Kai although she's a little bit older, the

(21:59):
you know, if you really want to like make a splash,
like and really kind of say, okay, obviously, you know
WW paid very well, but I'm going to use this
opportunity to like reinvent myself, figure out who I am
like what care? What am I? What character am I?
And and what you know? What do I do? And
like what who am I? And pro wrestling like, I

(22:20):
think that there's value in some of these talents to
not sign anywhere, just to have like a run where
you just go out there and do your thing and
you know, and make yourself and get and get yourself
over and then and then sign for maybe a bigger
deal than you can get right now. I think that
there's value in that for not all, not everybody on
that list, but certain certain talents on that list I

(22:42):
think could benefit could benefit from from that creatively.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
I know people, if I've said Riley Osborne made it
pretty clear he wasn't crazy about Working Evolved and that's
part of the reason, And they're kind of like, oh,
that was a bad move. What if you knew exactly
what he was doing. I don't know. I'm just throwing
it out there as a possibility that he may know
the way of the land and goes I don't know. Obviously,
if I'm Working Evolved, they're kind of moving me down
rather than moving me to the main roster featuring ringing

(23:08):
me prominently on NXT. Maybe he knows he has something waiting.
I'm just throwing it out. There's a possibility or o
mensa talented guy. I never really got all that into
the metaphor thing, but I mean I'm not stunned that
he was let go, but you know, had they kept him,
I wouldn't have been surprised by that. Either Hobby or
Bernal big body hobby. I need to see big body Hobby.

(23:31):
Except Mac Caster's open Challenge back, I really do.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
Yeah, like that would be fine, that would be fine,
just off just one office cool and look, you never know,
I mean, you know Ricky Starks, you know, was a
Cody Rhodes guy. Yes, but he kind of made a
splash the time he accepted an open challenge match, and
the rest is history with him. So you never know,

(23:56):
like what's going to open up for you. But yeah,
like Riley Sport for example, Yes, Like if you're on
one hand, you're like, okay, I could be on the
what fourth most important WWE show or fifth most important
w WE show? Not great, but you know if you
compare that too, well, it's either that or you know,
wrestling in front of fifty people at a couple of

(24:18):
indies every weekend, like you know, maybe Evolve isn't so bad.
So it's all a matter of like what what, you know,
what that guy wants, you know, what kind of reps
does he want? And and uh no, clearly he decided
that Evolved wasn't for him, and good on him.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
Dallas just never quite clicked in the US. Yeah, I
think next to UK, they were very good. I don't
know if they want to stay, if they want to
go back, and you know, I mean the scene isn't
what it once was over there, but maybe they feel
like they can help read some life into it. I
don't know, but I mean they're good veteran hands for
the guys who worked with Dwayne Johnson to get him
ready for wrestling Mannia forty.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
I mean maybe there's going to be a coaching role
for one or more of these guys and who knows.
But yeah, they're like they're for her free. I want
to you know, Danny Palmer has already said that she's
worked her last match, so you know, good luck to
her going forward with whatever she chooses to do. And
then the last one. I mean, certainly you can chat
about Gallas if you'd like to, but I cannot believe

(25:17):
they didn't like sign an extension with Shotzi just to
keep her around to host Halloween Havoc one more time.

Speaker 4 (25:23):
Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, You're not going to find
a more perfect talent than to do that than her.
She's she's she's interesting. Like and again, I think she
probably falls in the category of you know, taking a
look at TNA for example, Like I think that that
could be a good a good company for her. I

(25:43):
could also see her like, you know, she seems to
have a passion for for wrestling and you know, working
like fun indie matches for some top indies. I think
could could be something that you know, gets helps her
find herself a little bit as a as a character,
as a performer. It's like, I just feel I always

(26:03):
felt when I was watching her that you'd be watching
somebody that's still going through the steps of what to do,
Like I got to do this, and then I'm gonna
do this, and then I'm gonna ride my uh tank
out and then we're gonna turn right, I'm gonna hit
the poll. And it's not It's just it didn't feel
natural to me like it does for for other you know,
for top talents and even like you know, mid card

(26:23):
talents in WWE, and I always felt that she was
still just a step away from that. And you know,
she little little little seasoning here and there, and maybe
she can find that again. I don't think she's a
bad a bad talent. I just again, like one little,
one little step away.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
She did some crazy shit in WWE. I can't imagine
what she's gonna do if. I mean, you know, they
were restricting her on some things. I don't know how much,
but I mean she did crazy things before she got
to WWE. I would like to see shots he tone
it down, save the those big dives and things that
she does for when it counts. And maybe she's getting

(27:04):
older and maturing and realizing like, Okay, you know, I
can't put my body through this all the time, especially
now that I'm no longer working for a company that's
going to pay to my medical bills. I can't be
doing this on the independent scene. I think she's talented,
but yeah, that is a concern of mine. Anything on
Gallus before we move.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
On, you know, not really, not really. I'm a little
surprised that like it didn't work for them, just because
like they're a good tag team. They're good hands, but yeah,
they just they never It's to your point, they just
never really clicked. And there's not much more to it
than that, but they just didn't. And I guess sometimes

(27:45):
that happens, you know, But they can have good matches
with anybody anywhere, So I fully expect them to land someplace,
even if it is just regular work on the indies.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
And Joe Coffee a very good talker, and yet we
hardly heard from him in the next tape. I just
kept waiting, and you know, I believe they kind of
introduced the other two. I think Joe may have had
a visa issue that he was waiting to resolve, and
I was like, Okay, yeah, it's not going well for
these two necessarily, but wait till Joe gets here and
he gets his hand on the mic, this is going
to be good. And yeah, it just never really happened

(28:15):
that way. But yeah, I mean, obviously, I know I
speak for you. We wish everybody well on the cutlist,
and we've seen plenty of people lose their jobs in
WWE and go on to bigger and better things in
a lot of ways, and so yeah, here's wishing everybody well.
Backlash is a Saturday. I mentioned I'll be doing a

(28:35):
live review at Pro Wrestling dot Net and you are
going to be in the building at the Enterprise Center.
This is the first pl post WrestleMania. We've made you
wait to talk about it this long, and I'm gonna
make you wait to talk wait until to hear us
talk about it a little bit longer, because Zach, before
we get into Backlash, won't you tell everybody what you

(28:57):
got going on over at SI dot com, Brass Ring Media,
anything else you want to talk about.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
So you can catch my work in a two different
spots at Sports Illustrated, the Takedown on SI. I write
for them on a daily basis, both you know, helping
put out the news some features, and then I'm also
a part of what they what we do at the
on YouTube channel. So we do a prediction show that

(29:24):
I'm on for aw and WWE pay per views. We
just dropped one for Backlash. Check that out on the
Takedown on SI YouTube channel. I also host a discussion
show there every week that drops on Friday mornings, and
then also handle some interviews too. I just interviewed Libra
Valkyria that interview dropped on Monday was really interesting. You

(29:46):
got to pick her brain and kind of dive in
on where she thinks she's at on the on the
main roster like and how things are coming together for her.
And she was really an open book as far as
you know assessing her time on the main roster in
WWE so far. So that was a really fun conversation.
That's up on the Takedown on its side YouTube channel

(30:07):
right now. And then my shot that I run is
called brass Ring Media. We cover business in audio form
and in written form, so if you want to check
out our work there, we have a team of folks
that have showed all throughout the week on the YouTube channel.
They are live on YouTube. Just searts brass Ring Media
on YouTube, and there's four different shows. My show is

(30:29):
the brash Ing Media Podcast, it's our flagship lead show,
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We've got a Nocturnal Knockout with Robert, and then Dominic
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(30:51):
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(31:14):
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(31:37):
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We've got a Discord community that all of our members
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(31:57):
sports and news and all that stuff too, So it's
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backslash Brassling Media excellent.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Any weird bird noises coming from Larra vacteria?

Speaker 4 (32:13):
She had no bird anything I was talking to. Yes,
it was very unexpected. Not a single not a bird
picture on the wall. Nothing.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
I like Larter's work. I just that bird thing. I'm like.
I mean, the crowd's are reacting to it. I don't
know that it's a good thing long term, but it
doesn't have to be a long term We'll see. But yeah,
let's talk about backlash. As I said, you're going to
be in the building on Saturday night, and it's the
house of horrors for my Minnesota Wildy Enterprise Center. They

(32:44):
have had some issues with the Blues over the years,
and for that matter, my second favorite team lost a
cup to the Blues. It is not my favorite venue,
even though I've never been there. Hopefully you'll have a
better time there than my sports team's dudes act. But
you know what, since we're talking about Lyra, let's talk
about her match with Becky Lynch for the Women's Intercontinental Championship.

(33:06):
This is a newer title as we all know, and
Becky is coming back, and Lyra at one point, you know,
the character wise looked at Becky as a mentor. I'm
sure she still does behind the scenes. But what are
you expecting from this match? And is it I mean,
do you would you expect a title change this soon?

Speaker 4 (33:27):
You know, I'm not expecting the title change in this
this soon because I think if you're it seems to
me that the whole point of this so far and
even probably in the end is to is to level
up Larra Valkyria. And like, I guess the debate on
whether that's a fruitful endeavor is I suppose for a

(33:49):
different time, But that's the goal here. I mean, you're
using a lot of the Becky Lynch equity in order
to get Larra Valkyria over, and I just I just
don't see how you get that plan off to the
right foot if you have her lose to Becky right

(34:10):
out of the gate, Like I either way, I expect
this to be like kind of like a multiple event
or multiple show feud between these two women over the
interkind of little championship, And it just seems to me
that it's easier to keep the feud going. If a
frustrated Becky is heelicially chasing down Lyra like Lyarra gets

(34:32):
a win, and then Becky, you know, frustratedly like just
beats her up and takes her out, and and and
and and forces Lyra not forces, but gives Lylerah a
reason to want to fight Becky again, even though she's
already she's already beaten her. So I to me, and
not only do you get that the storyline benefit of

(34:52):
going that way, but you get Lyra win early on
in this, in this process. And because to me, that
seems like a goal here, that's what I think they'll do.
I can see it the other way, where it's like
you want to you want, you know, babyface Laarra Valkyria
chasing Becky Lynch down. The thing is, I just don't
think Lyra's over enough at this point. Like the turn

(35:14):
is still very new for Becky. She's still fending off
people that are that are cheering her. It's still fresh
and people haven't fully you know, got on the wagon
of Hey Boomy now and a title wind just might
make people excited for Becky. So I would hold off
on that. I'd put lyra over to just protect against all.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
Of that, any chance of Becky joining the new faction
that her husband is heading.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
Oh good question. Yeah, I mean, and I think she
would add a lot to it, honestly. You know, I
when they work together before I think that was twenty eighteen,
maybe boy, it did not go well. Now really didn't
go well. But that's because they were both baby faces,

(36:04):
and Becky in particular at that time.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
We hate baby face love. Come on, there's Randy and Elizabeth.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
And not much else, not much else at wrestling exactly.
Uh So, so you know it didn't work in that regard. However,
you change everything when they're both working heel and Paul
Hayman is there. You really change everything. And I think,
you know, it kind of just aligns the Rollins message

(36:32):
and like that whole faction message of like we're taking
over if Becky's a part of it. So, I mean,
I don't I'm not for sure that it's going to happen,
but if it does, I think they could absolutely make
I think they can make that work. I think they
can make that work.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
I'd like to see it. I think that would be
where you would do the title change if you were
going to do one. Here is like some sort of
shenanigans involving the new faction. I'm not crazy though about
someone has established as Becky holding the secondary title, and
I know the pushback on that. It's going to be, well,
it helps establish the title, but what does it establish it? As?

(37:07):
To me, it's the intercontinental titles of stepping Stone. And
if you all of a sudden this early, I mean,
at some point it's not going to matter as much,
but this early in the belts run, I do worry
that you would be kind of just making it identity
less or identity free if it's just like, oh, and
Becky holds this belt and EO holds the other belt,

(37:28):
and where if you keep it on Lyra and you
kind of have her feud with some of the I
guess on her card talent and the division that's working
their way up, then I feel like it actually has
more of a purpose than it's just okay, it's another
belt for the big dogs to hold. I'm not saying
Becky should never hold it, Zach, but that is my concern.

(37:51):
What do you think of that?

Speaker 4 (37:53):
I agree with that. I definitely agree with that, And
you know, assessing this just kind of stipulated that, Okay,
that's that's what they're doing. But I agree with you,
like fundamentally on like on the move, Like I think
that they did a nice job with where they put
those secondary women's titles right out of the gate, like

(38:14):
they put them on secondary and you know, upper second
tier town. Now, they didn't really do much with them
after that. I mean, Chelsea Green got got a lot
out of it, and but to two player at that
at that time, Valcaria, same thing. So I thought the
Belts landed in the right place. They just didn't really

(38:35):
have much around them at that point. And I I
think just fundamentally they should they should stay there. Like
you don't want you know, you don't want it to
be like Tony Storm and Mercedes Monette in a W.
Like I just I think that that has problems or
Will Ospray and John Moxley in a W or novels
ken you Omega and and John Moxley and a W

(38:56):
where you've got your secondary titles on guys who you
know should want the world title. I think that just
fundamentally for your show, that's the problem. So I agree
with you there, and you know, and maybe maybe that's
another reason why Becky doesn't doesn't win it. Also, you know,
if you're going to put Becky in that faction and
she joins Seth and she joins Paul Hayman and bron Breaker,

(39:19):
you know, the few that you want to have is
you know, Becky against EO. Scott from the world. Right,
That's that's a big time few that you want on
the table if you if you go that route. So
so yeah, fundamentally, I definitely agree with you on that.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
I have I'd like to see Liar retain. I have
a bad feeling it's going to be Becky, But I'll
work it out before before Saturday. I got to settle
it on one or the other and then let's go
with the other secondary well, actually there's two other secondary titles.
We'll go with the four way for the US Championship
Jacob on two defending against Drew McIntyre, Damian Priest and
l A. Knight solo SKO and may talk his way

(39:56):
into seven more people being added to this by the time.
Always said, and I don't know, I like the little
exchange he had with Nick aldis just beating people over
the head with it. Now with Solo accusing all this
of screwing over Fontu and all the saying no, that's
you are the one doing that. So I mean, it
can't be more obvious now that that's what's in play.

(40:17):
Do you think that is a factor here this early
in Jacob Fontu's title reigned, it would would let's Solo
somehow cost him?

Speaker 4 (40:27):
No, I don't. I don't think that. I don't think
you're going to see Jacob Fatu take a pin or
lose this title for for quite some time. I think
that they may establish that Solo is not on the
same page as as as Fatu, and you may start,
you may see the makings of the start of a
feud between them, which I think is which is a
good move. But I don't think Jacob Fau is going

(40:50):
to be losing the title. It just it seems to
me that part of the allure of Jacob Fatu, outside
of just the charisma that's there and just kind of
just aura that's there, people want to see him beat
other people up and win matches like that's a that's
a big selling point I think of of Jacob Fatu.
Let's watch him do the power moves, do the cool
agility stuff that he's able to do as a big

(41:11):
man and and and get wins, and so they've got
something there with him. And I wouldn't stunt that just
to you know, make a you know, make a feud
with Solo, so CoA mean a little bit more. I
think you can get there just fine with with Jacob
Fattu continuing to to get victories. I'm excited for this

(41:31):
match though. I think this is potentially the match of
the night. There's a lot of talent in that ring.
They all like to swing hard at their opponents, so
I'm expecting like a pretty fun physical, uh physical match here.
And and yeah, I do think Fatu takes it. But
to your point, you know, Solo Sicola looms in the background.
For sure.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Does Knight pull off the double jump as a nice
little street It's been a while since we've seen him
watch that.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
Hey he did it, And the stage of them all
with fifty sixty thousand people watching just fine. I'm going
to say he lands. I'm gonna say he lands it three.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
In a row, I hope. So, uh yeah, I look
forward to this one too. For the reasons you said,
I do think, you know, it's so early. I would
not mess with taking that title away from Fontu who
takes the pin though.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
Oh you know, I think l A. Knight takes it me.
And the reason is, like, when you think about, Okay,
you're gonna put Jacob Fatu on this run with the title,
you know, solo soakola and wherever else he goes, you know,
it seemed to me that you want a Jacob and

(42:40):
Drew McIntire singles match there to have, you know, down
down the road, maybe at SummerSlam or something to that end.
Same thing with Damian Preex, like you want that to
be a singles match that you can that you can
have potentially, So in both scenarios, I just would keep
the visual of Fatu beating them again off the table.

(43:01):
And and Ellie Knight at this think is you know,
I think everybody knows what he is at this point.
He's a good talent to have on your roster. It's good, pops,
But you know he serves this purpose to be in
these matches and to take falls like this, and I
think he I think he's the one that ends up
doing the job.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Makes sense to me. And then the the mentioniner Continental
title match Dominic Misterio depending against Penta.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
Your thoughts, So, I'm kind of kind of this was
just thrown together kind of when you think about like
just what's going on with with with Judgment Day and
dom and Finn, it felt like this was kind of like,
all right, well, why why do they want this match
on the show so badly right now? And to me,

(43:45):
maybe it's because they they plan on finally doing some
kind of breakup angle with what's left over in the
Judgment Day with with Finn. Maybe do you finally see
you know, Finn, you know, screw Dominic over or some
real moments within that fashion that sparks a summer a

(44:05):
summer feud between between everybody in it. It just was
thrown together so last minute that it's like it has
to exist for some other purpose otherwise why not just
do it on on Raw you know, or Saturday Nights
main event is right around the corner, like do it,
you know, do it? Do it then? But I think
the match, if it's given some time, I think it
can be it can be good. But to me, this

(44:27):
screams okay, what what what's going to happen? From a
from an angle? From an angle perspective, and that's kind
of what my intent is up for.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
Yeah, something with Finn Balor probably we saw him speaking
with Roxane Perez in the background. It looked like on
Monday show. I don't know any any thoughts on where
that may go.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
I don't. I mean, it's it's interesting, like it's an
interesting little easter egg that that was pointed out. I
didn't even see it on the first on the first
pass watching the show. But both, you know, they are
both they're both tiny, uh, And I think, like, you know,

(45:07):
if you're gonna turn Finn Balor and it's gonna be
thin against somebody against Dom and Live, like, you want
to start setting that up. So if that person is
going to be Roxane Perez, that kind of is on
thin side. I think that's it's good to set a
foundation for that and not just have it happen out
of thin air. So I do like, I like that.

(45:28):
I can't say for sure that that's where it's going,
but it would makes sense that if you're going to
fin like there's a fin and ex woman against Dom
and Live is like right there for you.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
So yeah, do you think we could get Finn like
trying to like pull the rug out from underlive. But hey, Dom,
what do you think of that Roxane Perez? I mean,
could that be out starts?

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Could yeah, that could be, Yes, that could absolutely be
how it starts in Roxanne. Like, I don't know what
I think about this whole thing from Roxanne's perspective. Like
if I'm her, I I think I would be like, well,
it gets me on raw more. But I don't. I
don't love this like I don't. I don't love being
used this way. But it's not always your decision, so

(46:11):
you know, but yeah, it's not that would not be
a great thing for for Roxane Perez. But if the
storyline needs it, that certainly makes sense.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Yes. Now, normally we go with the non title matches
first in the discussion, but this one feels pretty big
compared to some of the secondary title matches we just
talked about. Goonther and Pat McAfee and boy, they didn't
give themselves much time for the build and I was
worried about that and they didn't need it. They did

(46:39):
a health it shop. I'm really looking forward to this one.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
He did a really nice job with the build to this. Yeah,
I mean there's no h there's just no denying that,
you know. I mean, I think the first promo that
Pat McAfee cut, sittanding on the on the announced table,
I think was it was like a fine promo, but
it also was a little a little over indulgent for
my like it. And maybe that's just because I start

(47:04):
off at a negative place with Pat McAfee. In fact,
I'm sure that's what it is. Positive, that's what it is.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
But he really wanted, he really wanted.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
You to like him, and he really liked talking about
all the things that he does and the reasons why
he why you should and great, you know that's it
got a good response, So you can't argue with that.
Even if it wasn't my cumpan tee, the crowd bit
on it for sure. But this week, you know, that
was a that was a babyface go home promo. Like

(47:34):
that is like a tried and true like I'm here,
I'm Pat McAfee, I'm defending my friends, honor the crowds
on my side, like come on, like let's go. We're
gonna we're gonna do our best. We're gonna take out
We're gonna take down gun through, gun through. You're overlooking me,
and you know you shouldn't be, so you know, it's

(47:54):
a it's a that is the essence of what a
babyface promo should be. And he said up Gunther perfectly,
like he really set Gunther up to just not have
to say much but look really menacing and on the
on the back end, the concern that I have here
is how the match plays out, because as much as
I like the promo and as much as I like

(48:16):
to build, I don't want to see Pat McAfee and
Gunther have a fifty to fifty match together. Like, I
just don't want to see that, and I don't think
WWE should want to produce that. I mean, Gunther is
a top star for you. It's one thing for Pat
McAfee to go fifty to fifty with Austin theory, you know,
at WrestleMania, but Gunther, like, that's a different story. And

(48:38):
so they have to be really delicate with how they
handle this and it makes sure that Gunther comes out
of it looking really really strong in addition to winning.
It has to be both. It has to be both,
and if they tell that story the right way and
the match is you know, ninety percent guntherer with a
couple hope spots from mac to get the crowd popping

(49:02):
like great, but that's really all it can be. And
if it's more than that, then you know, that kind
of changes my perspective on the build.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
The thing that impresses me perhaps most about Pat McAfee's
promo skills. He's like looking higher than Sean Waltman and
RBD at their cheeks when he's delivering these promos. Just like,
my god, his eyes are so red. Once they started
to drawing attention to it on his show, now I
don't miss him. Wow, look at it, read those eyes. Look.
But yeah, he's a hell of a talker. It's very impressive,

(49:32):
and I think that you know, the way Gunter just
came out and just shot down basically McAfee because Macife
did give that really good promo. And then there's guntherro
just I'm going to massacre you, essentially, I'm paraphrasing, but
I mean he just he pulled no punches, like he
just was as confident as ever. This is not the

(49:52):
Gunther who lost at WrestleMania last year and had the
crisis of confidence at all. This is mean, nasty Gunther
and he's looking to destroy McAfee where I think we
could get a little twist in this, And I'm not
saying that Pat wins. I don't think he should unless
the plan is for Gun to beat him up even

(50:13):
more in a future pay per view. But the Goldberg factor,
I mean, we know Bill Goldberg is having a retirement
match at some point here in the near future, and
they kind of set the table for Gunther. Plants can change,
But do you think he could play some part in this?

Speaker 4 (50:30):
I forgot about old Goldberg there. Yeah, yes, absolutely. I
mean again, I still wouldn't do it in the match.
I still would not. Like I think that you could
have Goldberg like come to the rescue or something like that,
you know, after the fact or on a different show.
That's fine, and I think that's that's a fine match

(50:52):
for Gunther to have. It's just SummerSlam match. Mean, I
think that's that's a good spot for him. I mean,
that's a marquee match, you know Whatether people love it
or not, it just it is one and so that
is good for him. But I don't think they should
build that match by having Pat McAfee beat Gun through
with Goldberg's help. I just I just don't think that's

(51:14):
the right move. So do the match. Do gun Through
versus Goldberg? Thumbs up, But to make that match mean
as much as it can, you want you want Gun
there to win this match. I mean, if he can't
beat Pat McAfee, like, you know what, what, why is
it a big deal if he if he faces gun Through?
So it all you got to execute the match correctly,

(51:34):
even if Goldberg is involved.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
Another prediction for you is Pat McAfee calling Raw on Monday.

Speaker 4 (51:42):
Oh, you know what, I'm going to say, No, he's not.
I'm gonna say no, he's not. I'm going to give
WWE some credit here and say no he No, he's not.
Cory Graves, you get your main roster moment again.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Wet's see. I don't know. I hope he does, but yeah,
I really look, I'm looking forward to that. They sold
me on that match very quickly. I was a skeptic
to start, but yeah, Pats promos have been good, and
I mean, I know what the criticisms of mcpheer, and
I've certainly been part of those criticisms that time delivering them.
But I do think he has just an unbridled passion

(52:19):
for pro wrestling, and I do appreciate that just seeing
how excited that he gets just talking about it, it
is infectious. I wish he had more of that on
his Color commentary than some of the things that he
talks about. But you know, I mean, I think in
his mind that's what he's doing, but I think there's
a better way to do. But I mean, I really
do respect the passion that he brings and that brings

(52:42):
us to the main event. John Cena Randy Orton WWA Championship.
My first question for you, Zach is why doesn't Cody
Rhodes love us anymore?

Speaker 4 (52:53):
You think he doesn't? You think he doesn't love us anymore.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
He just disappeared on us. He walked out. You know,
he's that guy that he's the dad that are and
I'm going to pick up a pack of smokes and
you never see him again. Get thirty years later, after
years of therapy, he wants to get back together with
the family, and you know, you might accept, you might
tell him to go f himself. Yeah, all right, it's
only been a few weeks.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
It's only been a few weeks. But and I think
you can make the argument that he's he's going through
some things. He's going through some things, and but I
mean he's got to he's got to come back like
into the fold. Like I think it's one thing to
you know, take some time off to stell an angle

(53:36):
or what have you. But in this case, you know,
just he just lost a match, you know, like it's
not you didn't get like beat up.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
He didn't.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
He didn't get taken out by John Cene at WrestleMania.
He lost the title. And I you know, I think
that Cody Rhodes is still you know, the the top
or the top regular star that you have and in WWE,
and it just it seems to me that you want
him back talking about that loss and you know, and

(54:08):
building towards a rematch and getting him on the road
to a rematch. And you know, I think the argument
here is, well, you know, we want we're going fast
to this scene of thing so or this ortant thing,
so we've got to get to that. And probably in
real life Cody wants some time off. Okay, that's fine,
but I think after this match it is time for

(54:28):
him to come back and address what happened and get
ready for you know, a big summer, a big summer
run of some kind, back to that, to that championship
with Cody, you know, less it's more a lot of
the times with him, but in this case, it's like
the longer he stays away, you know, I just I'm
not sure that that makes him look even weaker than

(54:51):
he did at WrestleMania.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
I have no problem with Cody taking time away at all,
in fact, going into manias like if he's dropping the title,
he should. You know, this been running hard, and I
know it's not the old schedule, but still he's doing
a ton of media on top, so he maybe not
doing all the house shows, but the guy bus his ass.
And even if he even if he's going no, no, no,
I think if you're Paul levc you go yes, yes, yes,
you give yourself a month. Cody, go enjoy life, Go

(55:15):
spend some time with your family. And the issue I
have more than anything, and correct me if I'm wrong,
because I do miss things that the broadcast team say, well,
I'm covering the show because I can only focus on
so many things at once. They haven't really been commenting
on Cody not being there. It's like he just kind
of disappeared.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
Yeah, that's what that's kind of what I'm saying. Yeah,
I think that he looks because they they haven't put
any context around him being gone, and and then the
way everything went down in WrestleMania, where like he kind
of just you know, gets low load by John Cena
and taken out by Travis Scott of all people. Like

(55:54):
I just I thought he looked weak coming out of that.
So maybe that's like my starting ground. It's like that
was weak and now he's just not around and with
no context around that absence, it's like, man like, where Cody,
where are you? Like?

Speaker 3 (56:08):
What what?

Speaker 4 (56:08):
You just lost the title and you're not here? Like
what's up? You know, what's up with that? So I
don't know that that's a good look. So in real life, yes,
for sure, for sure you want to give them time off.
But I just would have put some storyline behind it,
or maybe just you know, I don't know, some kind
of pre recorded thing or something. You know, I don't
have an exact dea on the by tongue, but I

(56:30):
think there was a way to you know, tell the
audience where he is without him being on TV, and
in a way that you know, reminds of people that, hey,
this is our top guy. He's not here, but he'll
be back soon, and I think that's worth calling out
instead of just ignoring it altogether.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
I apologize if I put you in a position to
repeat yourself. I had to mute and take care of
a little bit of a doggy distraction the time, So
that's why it wasn't if I didn't catch show what
you said. I apologize. So yeah, Cody, I don't know
if you'll be back coming out of this match or not,
but we are getting John Ceene and oh, you know
what you could do with Cody Just here's the Matt

(57:07):
Zugerello is the key for the while. Oh that low blow,
that scene a game shattered testicle. Poor Matt Zucarello had
a shattered testicle from a shot for his own teammate
this year. My god, and he came back to play.
I would have retired, man, especially at his age. I'd
be gone.

Speaker 4 (57:22):
That's it. I'd be gone too. And this just yeah,
that sounds so painful, so painful.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Yes, anyway, now that that's sobering thought, I've shared that
with everyone, let's talk about John Cena, Randy Yorton. I
guess I mean, I don't really see a reason to
think there's going to be a title change here. Maybe
you feel otherwise, But can they produce a pay per
view main event caliber match? Can they? Can they pull
out all the old tricks and make this happen, because

(57:49):
quite frankly, I don't think Scene and Cody pulled it off.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
No, I I mean, can they Yes. I think that
there is a way for them to have a suitable
match here, and and I think it it requires them
to check their egos at the door of the building.
This match, I think is going to have some crowd
heat because it's Orton's hometown and I think people right

(58:17):
now with Randy Orton, they're like, they're like seeing fun Randy,
and I think that'll be magnified in his hometown of
Saint Louis, Missouri. So you want to capitalize on that,
which means you need to have a hot crowd for it.
And so less is more this match in my eyes,
if it's a solid, you know, sub eight minutes, I

(58:38):
think they could do something. I think that they can, like,
you know, use some bells and whistles, use some smoking mirrors,
RKO here, attitude adjustment there submission spot, and then you
have a crowd that is willing to give eight minutes
of their time and buy what they sell in the ring.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
The probably is really quick. You can turn eight minutes
into thirteen minutes by having seen a stall quite a
bit and everything else. So yeah, I mean, it's just
the eight minutes of coore wrestling that you're talking about, right.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
Exactly exactly. You can do a lot around that. But
if you do more than that, if you try to
do more, I think that's where you get dangerous. Like
WWE is, like I think really retcon of this whole
Randy Orton seen a thing where, yeah, it's been a
big feud because they've had a lot of matches together,

(59:29):
a lot of title matches, a lot of main events,
and they cross paths a lot, but it wasn't all
like Roses. You know, there are some bad matches in there,
Like there's some really bad matches in there, and people
were really tired of this feud and of these matches
by the time they had their last one in twenty
seventeen or whatever it was. And I just don't think

(59:51):
there's reason to think that they've all of a sudden
found another layer of chemistry at you know, seeing as
in his late forties. You know it just I wouldn't
rely on that. I would rely on you know, what
they know they can do. They're going to have a
hot crowd. They are legacy stars. They can use that
to their advantage. But if this, if this is a
match that we're talking that goes twenty twenty five minutes,

(01:00:14):
like I, that's a disaster. That's a disaster waiting to happen.
And I hope they I hope they can just be
reasonable with themselves and get that going in now.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
They can always make an appearance. We mentioned the possibility
with the Becky Lynch match for instance. Are you surprised
we don't have Seth Robins, Brown Breaker, Paul Hammon involved
in the show.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
I'm a little surprised that we didn't get an announcement
coming out of Raw that it's going to be you know,
Breaker and Rollins against Sammy and Punk. Yeah. I thought
that that was right there for them. But they do
have So they have this show, they've got Center Night's
main event coming up soon after it, and then Running
the Bank is on June seven, so they've got a

(01:00:57):
lot that they have to book. Between now and June seventh,
So this it could just be a thing where like
they're gonna hold that tag because that tag team match
kind of kind of scream saturd Night's made event to me. Sure,
it's a big tag team match. So in thinking and
thinking that through, it's like, Okay, yeah, you don't. You
don't necessarily need it on the show, but it is
such a prominent storyline in the whole company that it's

(01:01:21):
kind of weird that it's not there.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Did you like the decision to hold that match on
Mondays Raw the way they did?

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
Yes, Well, I liked the decision, but I didn't buy
the decision. And it's not so much because of the
decision to go with the match itself. I think it's
because of months and months and months of non finishes
and some of these some of the big matches that
they do. It's just like when you want to be
able to announce that match on Monday and have people go,

(01:01:51):
oh my god, I gotta I gotta watch this because
Seth and Jay are fighting for the world title, like
what's gonna happen? This is crazy? And instead it was Okay, well,
how are they going to get out of this because
clearly they're not going to do a finish, so who's
coming back? Oh punk? Okay, you know it's like you
think that way instead, and so I didn't really buy it,

(01:02:13):
but I think it's good for the show to have
those kind of things pop up, you know, some some big,
some big, you know, matches like that. Not all the time.
You have to be you know, very frugal with them
because you want to make the big matches, you want
to promote them too, but every so often it's good

(01:02:34):
to throw, you know, a booking curveball like that, and
I thought it made sense. I thought they gave it
a good backstory as well, like backstage with with Paul
Hayman kind of explaining everything and tying everything together. But
it's just a symptom of you know, using the non
finished crutch so much that you know, I think a

(01:02:54):
lot of the audiences didn't didn't didn't buy it. The
match tried, it tried really hard, and I thought it
did a nice job of hiding some of the certainty
of the outcome, and so they did a really nice job.
I thought the match was really good, but you know,
it's just you know, that's why you don't do non
finishes all the time because you want people to believe
that these are must see main events when you put

(01:03:17):
them on.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
I really liked it, and I didn't, and I mean
going into it, it was once it was like, Oh,
they're actually going to do this on the show. Okay,
I was a little skeptical, but the match was so
well done, the near falls were so good, so perfect. Yeah,
that I even there was no reason to think we're
going to see a title change really because okay, they
didn't advertise that, we know the formula. If they don't advertise,

(01:03:39):
you end up getting a shit finished more often than
not if it's a big enough match like this. But
I still was like, well maybe, And I think some
of it it's not just near falls. It's Jay's vulnerability
as a champion. I think that is so valuable right
now that they're going to be able to put him
in there with the logan Paul, and if there's a
good near fall, people are going to think there's a
chance Jay Lou And I mean, we just saw it

(01:04:01):
with Seth and I think with the right opponent, that's
going to be an ongoing thing. Another thing that we
saw that you mentioned it that I think is going
to be very valuable going forward, is Hayman coaching Braun
Breaker because he can tell the story directly that they
want to tell to Braun when basically it's like he's

(01:04:25):
telling us dummies at home. And if you think about it,
this is why this is happening. This is the manipulation
and you know, and you're going to get it from
the Hayman character perspective. But I do think it's it's
going to be a key thing for them too if
there's a you know, some nuance to the storyline. They
don't feel like people are picking up on Bammy. Have

(01:04:45):
Paul Hayman talk like that to Braun Breaker and people
are gonna go, oh, okay, now I get it. So
I'm any thoughts on any of that stuff that I
just went on a rant about.

Speaker 4 (01:04:54):
It's a great it's a great point that the Hayman thing.
I didn't think of it from that from that perspective,
but absolutely it's like here, if you didn't understand the story,
now just listen to what Paul Hayman says to run Breaker,
because that's it. That's tremendous because it it serves two purposes.
One it tells the story like definitively, like this is

(01:05:15):
where we're going. And two it shows bron Breaker like
getting the education from Hayman that you know that that
the whole entirety of the story like is four, Like
you want to see Breaker pick stuff up from from
Paul Hayman so that you can really emphasize how important

(01:05:39):
Hayman is as a coach and as an educator, as
a teacher and as a manager, and so often like
they just kind of allude to that, and because it's
Paul Hayman, you just that's just kind of an inherent thing.
But now here like you're gonna get to actually see it.
And I think that's pretty cool. Like I think that's
a pretty cool, a pretty cool nugget. So good good
call on that. And then and then yeah, the match itself,

(01:06:01):
I just want to double down on what you said,
because as I mentioned, like I think the outcome was
all but certain, And again I blamed not the idea
to do the match, but the just the booking patterns
to this point or recently anyway for WWE that kind
of gave it away. But as I mentioned, the match
really it made you. There are points in time where

(01:06:23):
you're like, well, shoot, I don't know, like what maybe
they are going to do this year. And Jay's vulnerability
plays a part of it, you know how much they're
emphasizing Seth also, you know, plays a part in that.
And then just the match itself, just the execution, the
near falls were so crisp that everything was really thought
out in terms of the finish and the road to

(01:06:44):
the finish. So so yeah, that's you know, the matches
can can save a lot, and this really, I mean,
if this was even a mediocre match or even just
like a good match, I think, you know, we're talking
more about the another non finish in a big match.
But sometimes that is the right way to go. And

(01:07:05):
it's just a matter of how often do you use
that avenue and they do it too much. But in
this case it made sense.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
And for the love of God, please just announce the finish.
If you're worried ring the bell, Yeah, I've said, like
if you are worried, like, oh, you're gonna they announced
the finish, the crowd booze, that's a flatweight and raw
have Michael Cole tell viewers at home the finish wait
till the show goes off the air and then you
announce it to the crowd. Seriously, but you need to
say what the hell the finish is? It's just asinine

(01:07:35):
that they don't. But and it was frustrating because I
liked so much about that, And somebody asked me a reader, like,
why are they giving this away? Like, they didn't give
you anything away. They didn't give you a finish they,
if anything, what are your appetite for more? They gave
you a hell of a match without a finish, And
I mean, I don't know how you watch that match

(01:07:56):
and don't feel like you want to see a rematch.
Absolutely people are going to And so yeah, I think
it played out really, really well and I'm definitely looking
forward to the next chapter. But first we got to
get through Maybe it'll take place this weekend, but probably
not since they're not on the car. We got to
get through Backlash, and again, Zach is going to be

(01:08:18):
an attendance. You can follow his work at SI dot
com and Brass Ring Media, and you can also order
Stunning the Wrestling Artistry of Steve Austin. It's still available
on Amazon dot com, so be sure to check that
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there and you'll find a link right to it on
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(01:08:40):
If you want an easy you know, typing stunning the
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(01:09:02):
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(01:09:23):
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(01:09:45):
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pro wrestling net zach I, thank you, my friend.

Speaker 4 (01:10:00):
Thanks so much for having me Jason. It's always a blast.
I love love doing these shows with you. So let's
do it again soon and yeah, enjoy enjoyed backlunch