Flashback Boom (5 Years Ago – 9-12-2018): "Filthy" Tom Lawler talks about Dana White as boss, his WWE tryout shifting his focus to MMA, more

Today we present the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast from five years ago this week (9-12-2018) with Jason Powell interviewing “Filthy” Tom Lawlor. The topics include being released by UFC and his USADA suspension, his run with MLW as the leader of Team Filthy, the origin of his nickname, whether Dana White was accessible as his boss, a past tryout for WWE that led him to focus on MMA, and much more (71:15)…

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Jason Powell's Pro Wrestling Boompodcast. Hey, production of Pro Wrestling
dot Net. Get ready for thelatest news, analysis, and interviews featuring
big names from the world of prowrestling. Here comes the Boom. Hey,

(00:35):
thank you, Paul Allen Vois.The Minnesota Vikings one and Oh with
a home victory over the Niners Beach, I want to go and Oh and
one right, Things heat up quickly, the border battle, my Vikings traveling
to Green Bay to play the Packers, and the comeback King Aaron Rodgers on
Sunday, assuming he's healthy. Ihave no idea why that game isn't in

(00:56):
primetime, but I'm really happy it'snot because we have ww Helena Cell taking
place on Sunday night. Before weget to that, Hey, cool news,
I made my triumphant return to theJim Ross Report Podcast. Technically it's
my first appearance on the show ofthat name. Made several appearances on Jr's
old show, but this is thefirst time since he's moved to Westwood One,

(01:18):
and I hope you will check itout. Just do a quick search
for the Jim Ross Report Podcast.I'm sure many of you guys know right
where to find it and a bigthanks to Jim for having me on the
show again. It's always a realhonor to appear on jr. Show,
and I'm really grateful for everything thatJim has done to help promote Pro Wrestling
dot Net and now the Boom overthe years. You can join me on
Sunday for Helena Cell beginning with theabsolute worst kickoff show coverage on the internet.

(01:44):
Hey, it's football season, folks, don't get me wrong. If
there's a match, are even apromo, then it'll get the usual focus.
But I think you guys can alldo without a recap of the predictions
from the panel that now resembles agraveyard of former Rown SmackDown broadcast team members.
But the actual pay per view,along with those kickoff show matches,
that gets my full attention, regardlessof what's going on in the NFL.

(02:07):
So join me for live coverage andcommentary throughout the show on Sunday night.
Remember the earlier start time now Mansixth Central, seven Eastern for the actual
show, an hour earlier for theneedlessly long kickoff show. Dot and members
are going to hear the exclusive audioreview that Jake Barnett and I do following
all of the WWE pay per viewevents the night of the show, so

(02:27):
late Sunday night that will be availablefor members, and you can join us
on the ad free version of ProWrestling dot net and here a decade of
audio content by visiting PW membership dotnet. Hey, you want to get
together and chat on Monday, thenjoin me for Pro Wrestling dot m live
at the audio show three Central,four Eastern PW audio dot Net will Prue
at night. We'll be taking calls. I think Will is going to be

(02:51):
there. We are actually on BabyPrue at Watch twenty eighteen. For some
reason, Will is actually putting thepotential birth of his child ahead of the
podcast. I can't believe it.I'm sure he thought long and hard about
this, but yeah, I'm reallyshocked by his lack of commitment to dot
net as well. But it's thefirst one for Will, so I guess
we'll let it slide. But joinme and maybe Will at PW audio dot

(03:15):
net again Monday, three Central,four Eastern. We are live the Monday's
bollowing WWE pay per view events.Your phone calls are welcome, and for
that matter, if you can't joinus during the show live because of hold
that little thing called work. Youcan also take part by sub many questions
via email dot n et Jason dotNet, Jason at gmail dot com,

(03:35):
or hit me up on Twitter atPro Wrestling Net And coming up on today's
show, We're gonna get a littlefilthy. I've been asking to have a
fight scheduled for months. You couldn'ttell me at the beginning of that,
Hey, we're gonna let you go. That decision could have been made then.
It couldn't have been made a yearearlier when I had asked for my
release. You know I can thischanged the entire course of my life.

(03:57):
I could have been doing a numberof things. I could have learned a
trade in that time. Filthy TomLawler joins me to explain how he got
that nickname. I was very curious, and he also vents about his USADA
suspension and being released by UFC,as you can tell from that Cliff,
and we talk about his rona withMajor League Wrestling. Before we get to
Tom, just a couple of quickthoughts on WWE television this week. There's

(04:20):
no way to sugarcoat it. Rawis a bad shell right now. All
the title belts are tied up inthe Shield and they're feud with Braun Sterman,
Drew McIntyre and Dolf Siegler, atleast on the men's side. The
Shield just beat up almost every otherheel on the roster this week. Everything
is about making you love Roman Reigns, and it just comes off. It's

(04:41):
so desperate and ineffective. Ostrowman,he was arguably the most popular guy on
the roster before they decided to turnhim. The only one close, I
would say was probably seth Rawlins,And now he's getting fairly flat reactions.
You know, some fans still wanta chant the hold these hands chant thing,
but for the most part, it'sjust night and day you go back

(05:02):
to. It's not like what hewas getting in cheers is now matched by
heat. It's not that way atall at this point. The best part
of the recent shows on Raw,anyway, have involved Undertaker, Triple H
and Shawn Michael's promoting a pay perview that isn't taking place on Sunday.
They're also working in all this hypefor the Mixed Match Challenge evolution. The

(05:26):
May Young and Classic Raw is justa disorganized mess of a show. I'm
not enjoying it. It's rare thatour reader's vote to give an F grade
to any show, but they didwith Monday's Raw, and I'm right there
with them. I thought it wasa miserable failure when it came to getting
me excited about Sunday's event. Now, on the bright side, SmackDown,

(05:47):
well they work in some hype orthe other things too, but they've done
a really nice job of just gettingdown to business and spotlighting their hell and
sell feutes. SmackDown isn't perfect.I still think that it's decision to turn
Becky Lynch heel is ridiculous, butthe two hours of SmackDown just moves nicely
and it really left me in thisweek looking forward to aj Styles and Samoa,

(06:10):
Joe, Randy Orton, Jeff Hardyand then Helen a Cell structure,
the mixed tag match with Daniel Bryanand Bribella facing the Mizz and Maurice,
and then even the SmackDown Women's Championshipmatch. Despite the Becky Lynch Hiel turn,
it is definitely the superior show thesedays, not even close. We've
actually reached a point. I mean, I usually for years it's been hey
it's all night, and sometimes you'remore excited than others. I'm starting to

(06:31):
dread Raw. It's that bad.It's just so disjointed that it's even difficult
to predict the outcomes of these matches. I'm kind of dreading that when Jake
Barnett and I get together for themember exclusive dot Net weekly audio show on
Thursday, will be doing our matchpredictions. And there's no conventional logic being
used when it comes to the bookingright now. So I don't even know

(06:53):
what to make of this anymore.It's really become that bad. I'm just
kind of throwing my hands up whenit comes to predicting some of the matches.
I mean, I assume Rohn torouse, he's going to walk out
of there with the Raw Women's championship, but you get beyond that, who
knows what they'll do because nothing reallyseems to make sense anymore. Hey,
we all have a good, unpredictableshow, don't get me wrong, but
that's not what I would define thisas. It's not unpredictable in a good

(07:15):
way. It's just a mess.I hate to say it. I don't
even care about most of the Rawfus right now. Just because the booking
is so damn awful putting row sideguys, I could use your help.
Every week I ask you guys toread and review us on iTunes and show
us that five star love. Nowsome of you have and I really appreciate
that, but for those of youwho haven't, please take a moment do

(07:40):
that because it's a huge help whenit comes to spreading the word about this
show. As I mentioned, myguest today is a former UFC fighter.
You may be surprised to learn thathis current run in pro wrestling is not
his first run and pro wrestling.He is a standout on the Major League
Wrestling Fusion television series and he's thewinner of the company's Battle Riot Filthy Tom

(08:00):
Lawler joins me right after this.Pro Wrestling dot Net is the place to
go for news and analysis, livetelevision and major event reviews, opinion pieces,
and so much more. If youwant to keep up on the very

(08:22):
latest and professional wrestling, then searchno further than Pro Wrestling dot Net.
Back on the Boom. MLW Fusionairs Friday nights on b in Sports seventh
Central, eight Eastern. This Fridaynight show features the Big two ring war
Games match And if you don't getB in sports, you can still check
out MLW via their YouTube page.The television show is uploaded Saturday nights and

(08:48):
my guest today is a big partof MLW, Filthy Tom Lawler. Welcome
to the show. Thank you verymuch for having me my pleasure. Well,
I want to start with the obvious. It's it's probably something that is
common knowledge and somehow I've just missedit. Where does the builty name come
from? There is no real commonknowledge behind it. There's no one story

(09:15):
that I can pinpoint and you know, give you as the inspiration or the
reasoning for the names. When Iwas starting my professional mixed martial arts career,
I was going by Tom the MaulerLawler and one of my friends said,
you know that's just too generic foryou. We need to splice it

(09:37):
up a little bit. You know, you've got a bigger personality than that,
and he thought that Filthy fit perfectly. So I went on The Ultimate
Fighter and at that point I wasstill the Filthy Mauler Tom Lawler. However,
afterwards, for some reason, perhapsbecause I got mauled in one of
the fights on the Ultimate Fighter,the UFC dropped that portion of the name,

(10:01):
and ever since then it's been SolfyTom Waller and it's Stutch and it's
now as much part of me asanything else. So did it make it
difficult when you were a single manlooking for ladies, Not at all.
I was going to say you wouldbe surprised, but perhaps you would not
be surprised by the amount of girlswho, deep down at their core want

(10:26):
somebody who can get filthy, verynice. Now I'm looking it up,
looking up your age, I thinkyou were around roughly ten years old at
the time of the first UFC event, So was your first love MMA or
pro wrestling at that point. Ihad already been watching professional wrestling for years

(10:46):
and years, so I was alreadya fan. However, I mean I
was so young at that point.I mean virtually I was a fan of
any sport at that age. Butafter seeing UFC two, I kept up
with the UFC ever since that time. So to me, as I grew

(11:07):
they were both calls on equal footingas far as my love of demolent,
and as I grew older that remainedto be the same, and realistically I
just look at them both as different. I guess compartments of the same thing.
You know, it's all professional wrestling. However, in one avenue MMA,

(11:31):
it's in you know that the determinationor the outcome is not predetermined,
and in one professional wrestling and ispredetermined. Yeah, now did you actually
did you do some wrestling prior toyour run with UFC. Yeah? So

(11:52):
my first midst Martial Arts site wasin two thousand and three. So sometimes
it gets mixed up that I wrestledbefore I did MMA, but that's not
necessarily the case. Oh you knowto me, like I said, it's
really all the same thing. Butif you want to make a delineation,
my first fight was she Got three. Then I think my professional wrestling debut

(12:13):
would have been in two thousand andfive or two thousand and six, and
then my pro and them debut wastwo thousand and seven, I believe.
And yeah so I so I hadabout a year or so on the independent
scene, wrestling mostly in Florida,and then and then went over to the

(12:35):
UFC. So and so, whatled you to MMA over wrestling? Was
it simply financial? I had atryout at Deep South with the w W.
One are these like week long tryouts, so they had to come in.
I did trills ad NAUSEUMU got bumpedover and over and over and over

(12:58):
again, so virtually and seemingly noreason. And then I was told that
to give the person in charge acall back on the following Monday when I
went home, and of course Icalled back, and no response or response
or response for weeks and weeks andweeks. You know, I'm sure there's

(13:20):
other people that have shared similar storiesor had similar instances where they're just kind
of strung along. And that lefta bad sour taste in my mouth.
And at that point, I wasstretched out of college and didn't have any
money, so I took a jobas a high school teacher and in the
meantime went back to training MMA whenI could after school, and that kind

(13:43):
of started taken off. So whois running this? Was running deep South
at the time you were there,it would have been well, I mean,
the head trainer at that time,I was built upon. So sure
I wish I would have STAD,but I wasn't sure. And I mean,
it was it just Bill that wasBill's style, or or is there

(14:05):
some scenario where he's not to blamefor this? Oh, I have no
clue. I mean, I don't. I think it's just something that happens
with younger talent. They bring guys, and to be fair, they brought
me in. I just did drillsfor a week. Uh, they didn't
give me any promo time, theydidn't have me work a match, and
I had already been working for youknow for a while, so that was

(14:28):
kind of a disappointment to me.And it's just the process, and you
know, I'm sort of part ofit is seeing how much you really wanted,
you know, But also I'm ahuman being and I'd rather you just
tell me what you think than makeme death right. Yeah, I didn't.
I didn't do too well on theon the dating scene for a while

(14:48):
because of that sort of idea.But but the Filthy name changed everything.
Yeah, that helped me out.So you end up doing UFC. You
stay true to those pro wrestling routes, though you have your big Hulk Cogan
themed entrance and a lot of fun, over the top entrances. I interviewed

(15:09):
Dana White. I actually met hima couple of times, and he's always
spoken very highly of Vince McMahon andI would imagine, you know, he
had to sign off on something likethat. I assume he was totally cool
with the Hulk Covin bit. UhNo, he doesn't sign off on anything
really as far as that goes.Perhaps the entrance music itself gets run by

(15:31):
him. But you know, Idon't. I don't have to tell him
what entrances or weigh in that wasgonna do. Never asked, you know.
I think I may have had someof the back office UFC people ask
me what I was gonna do,try to perhaps they thought I was gonna
do something, you know, Idon't know, to embarrass the company at

(15:52):
one point. I don't know whatthe deal is, but I didn't want
anything. Why Dana White or anybodyelse really. If you enjoyed the Pro
Wrestling Boom podcast and pro wrestling audiocontent that I know you're gonna love becoming
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Was there any you know? Imean, look, there's obviously a lot
of cross over these days, andyou're an example of that. But I
do know over the years, especiallyin probably around the time that you were

(17:03):
doing some of these entrances, therewere a lot of MMA fans who just
despised pro wrestling. Did you getany gree from fans about doing the pro
wrestling entrance? Yes, But muchlike in pro wrestling MMA now as well,
it's the vocal minority a lot ofthe time, and it was the
vocal minority that would say things aboutit. One of my favorite instances or

(17:27):
sayings that a lot of people woulduse it be like maybe if he spent
less time focusing on its entrances,he'd win a fight oh God, maybe
he'd maybe he'd be a better fighter. And it's like, okay, so
let's think about this. Perhaps themost, the most, the absolute most
I could spend in one day's timewould be an hour a day. I

(17:48):
mean, this is like the maximumlimit of time I could possibly said each
day working on entrance maybe be anhour. Right, I can't train twenty
four hours a day. It's possible. So even if I spent the maximum
amount of time focusing just on aninterest, it would not be detrimental to
my training or fighting career whatsoever.So that was always my favorite thing that

(18:11):
people would say. But for themost part, I think people people got
it, And I mean, I'mnot stupid. I didn't do all professional
wrestling themes and interests on to throwbacksto various other MMA characters, so that
hardcore MMA fans didn't get upset,Oh, this guy's just out there imitating
whole Kogan here and you know,imitating whoever here. You know, they

(18:34):
saw me as carrying on the previouslegacy of a lot of the past fighters
that people either didn't know about becausethey didn't do their history of work or
I forgot about. Is it justme or are the same fans who are
so anti pro wrestling, the oneswho seemed most oblivious to some of the
gamesmanship in UFC as far as justthe promos and things of that, and

(19:00):
atre it's just like they completely suspendtheir disbelief or they're just completely oblivious,
it seems. I'm not sure,I don't I don't know. MMA fans
are an interesting bunch. Just theway the sport evolved over time is very
interesting if you think about it inthe fan base, because for a long

(19:22):
time, it was basically kept aliveby the Internet and that was virtually the
only way to follow away. Andthat was not at a time when like
the internet would be the most readilyavailable thing. Sure, you know,
so it's always been or it's alwayshad this kind of underlying, underground swell
of activity. And sometimes those peopleare just they're they're too opinionated and they

(19:47):
don't look at the larger picture,you know. They they talk about how
much they hate pro wrestling and prowrestling antics, and then those are the
same people who are the first praiseConnor McGregor and scoop up everything that he
does. And it's like, doyou guys not see what's going on here?
Do you not even hire me init? I mean, and a
lot of fans are like that.And you know a lot of then A

(20:10):
fighters are like that too, Alot of fighters I talked to. They
just don't understand what the similarities arebetween professional wrestling and mixed martial arts,
and they don't understand history of theentire thing. They can separate the UFC
in their minds form pro wrestling,but I mean, the UFC is just
one organization, you know, Andthen they has been going on for hundreds

(20:34):
of years, you know, thousandsof years really ever since the beginning of
man you know, dilate two daycompositions, catch wrestling with different rule sets.
I mean, there's been shoot professionalwrestling forever, right, Yeah.
Well, now, growing up ayoung fan, did did the MMA style

(20:57):
kind of appeal to you in termsof what you watched in wrestling or were
you more just you know, whateverwas big in pop culture? No,
I mean I'm a fan of now, I guess I'd be more of a
fan of like shoot style wrestling.A guess you could say due to the
fact that at that time it wasn'tas easily accessible for me. I probably

(21:19):
didn't start really watching Japanese wrestling,which has, you know, a greater
variance of styles that we have herein the US for the most part,
and it's kind of been that waythrough our time. But I didn't start
watching that stuff until I was,you know, in high school or college,
and even then it was not UW FI stuff that I was watching.

(21:41):
So now I'm more of a fanof that shoot style. But I've
always liked wrestling that resemble a struggleor a fight. I loved, you
know, guys like Dean Relanko fitthinly, guys who are technical but bruising,
and virtually everything that you see themcould happen in a real context.

(22:03):
You know. It doesn't look likea choreographed a choreographed dance going on out
there. And that's kind of theway that I try to wrestle. When
I think, I think it throwsoff someone who's at a wrestler sometimes,
and if it also throws off thesands a little bit, because if you
watch, sometimes I'm doing something thatit doesn't look like we're on the same
page, you know, it kindof looks like I'm struggling to hit a

(22:26):
throw. Well, I mean,if you're ever throwing somebody in a real
context, you don't just pick themup and toss them. There's a struggle,
there's a fight there, and that'swhat I try to convey as well
as I can when I'm out therewrestling. So how does that get over
with your opponents? I mean,you just guys who didn't come up the
way you did, went through yourtraditional pro wrestling school. Is it difficult

(22:48):
with some to kind of get themto grasp what you're going for? Yeah,
And I don't generally explain explain itlike, hey, listen, you're
gonna have to fight me a littlebit here. You know, when I
grab a hold of your waist,I'm not just gonna throw you. I
want you to, you know,sink your weight. I want you to
struggle with me before it happens.A lot of guys are just used to

(23:11):
going based off of their reaction andthe guy grabs you to get thrown,
Okay, it's safe, cool,all right. But what I like to
you is trying to maximize the mostI can get out of each little throw
or you know hold, And youknow, at least in my mind,
that's what I want to do.Sometimes it happens. It doesn't, but
you know, I'm sure it doesthrow off some guys because it's just a

(23:33):
different style, you know, anda lot of people don't recognize that shoot
style as its own thing. Youknow. They think about, well,
we've got some Southern style pro wrestling, or we have some Lucha libre guys
out there. You know, that'sokay, I'll have to learn to adapt
to Luca Libre. But nobody goeson, I'm gonna have to learn how

(23:55):
to adapt to this guy's throwing MMAkicks or the way that he's holding onto
the arm born forcing me to struggleat certain points of the move you know.
So yeah, sometimes I think itis frustrating for the guys I'm wrestling,
but you know it's also I don'tknow, I'm tide. I'd bet
so, hey, gang. Ittakes a lot of time and effort to

(24:22):
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(24:44):
helped out so far. Remember that'spro Wrestling dot Net slash Amazon what I'd
like to think it's a bit ofa learning experience for them as well,
just to trying to work that differentstyle when you first broke in. Who
trained you? Uh? The firsttrainers I had? I was at a

(25:04):
school and a star called Federation XEntertainment, and there was a number of
different trainers that were there and wouldcome through there at various times. The
first I like to say that HackMyers from old ec Wayer. I like

(25:25):
to credit him as being my firsttrainer. I mean, I really liked
Hack, but also do the factthat he passed away a few years ago,
so you know that as little athing as it is, uh,
you know, I like to credithim with being the guy who trained me.
And there was others Alex portaut zdode Mucci, uh, Michael Shane

(25:48):
I named that. Not a lotof guys talked about nowadays real beginnings of
TNA, So there was a numberof guys. He's on Dudley later on,
U kind of towards the end ofmy so wrestling skink helped me a
lot at the later stage. Sothere's a number of guys, so I
could point two that helped me outa lot. But if I get a
ten point one, I'm going withhack. Yeah, fair enough. And

(26:11):
did you work I mean, wereyou basically taunt the style that everybody else
would? I mean, when didyou start to incorporate the MMA style into
it at that point or was thatsomewhere down the road. Let's see,
maybe about eighteen months ago. Wow, okay, So I mean to back

(26:32):
then, you were just regular prowrestler Tom Lawler. Yeah, for the
most part. I mean, peoplewere aware that I had an amateur wrestling
background, so I still did alot of throws, supplexus, different different
things like that. But yeah,a lot of the less armed bars back
then, less rolling knee bars,less triangle tokes, you know, less

(26:56):
MMA theme stuff, a lot lessstripes. So now you know, I
guess just coming back with that andthen his style. I gotta people are
more aware of it. Now.That's another thing. At that time she
got there, you jing MMA stylematch. People don't know what they're seeing
and more than likely the crowd isprobably gonna crap on it in a lot

(27:17):
of places. So and being ayoung wrestler at that time and didn't have
the confidence to try different things.I didn't have a confidence to try to
set styles and try to make somebody'ssomebody else has not fit my view of
pro wrestling. And now I kindof have a confidence. I'm a little
bit older, I'm a little bitwiser. I like the thing and better.

(27:40):
How was Dana White as a boss? Is he a guy that you
would have a lot of direct contactwith or is there more middlemen and you
guys don't see much of him.He's he's basically one step closer to me
than Donald Trump. Okay, thatlike, I really don't have access to

(28:00):
it. And what was it alwaysthat way? Yeah, for the most
part. I mean, I don'tthink there's ever been a point where,
you know, I could just anybodyin the roster to just call up Dana
and get his number and get ahold of them. You know, there's
always been a kind of hierarchy,and of course the champions and you know,

(28:21):
big money participants in the fights getpreferential treatment, and that's the way
it's been. That's the way it'salways been, That's the way it'll continue
to be. And I mean that'sjust the way the world is. Right,
you were suspended in twenty seventeen thatyou saw a failure, and I
think, oh, I'm sorry youhave said that you don't know how the

(28:44):
substance ended up in your system.Take me through that. What happened with
that? That whole situation. Ifeel for a substance called osparine, which
is a PSALM, which is aselective Andrewsen receptor module, which uh,
I mean really I can't answer muchmore about that, uh, like what

(29:06):
it is, and that I haveno idea how the substance got into my
body. I'm sure that it musthave been in some sort of over the
counter supplement or you know, youknow, food item that I purchased.
One of the problems with this specificsubstance is that it is like the most

(29:33):
readily used like spiking agent in supplements. So if you go do the research
on it, it's been found intons and tons and tons of different supplements
that are sold at GMC, youknow, various other supplement companies essentially,
and the way that the SATA systemis set up. It's that it's such

(29:59):
as you have you order at faultand then you must find the culprit,
you know. So I had acouple of products tested and unfortunately those products
came back as not containing substance.And it's some people are under the impression
that like, you can just sendin anything you want, you sat it
just how to test it. Well, that's not the case. Okay,

(30:22):
you have to pay to have eachand every substance that you want to get
tested tested after a certain points.So they actually called me up as they
were testing a second batch of substancesand they said, hey, would you
be willing to pay half of this? And I'm like, no, right,
no, I'm not gonna I'm notgonna pay it. And they're like,
okay, well then we'll just coverit. And I thought to myself,

(30:45):
like, that's a really it's kindof like shady way to handle it.
Yeah, And you know, justlike the entire process is not set
up in a fair way for athletes. Josh Barnett also sells for oscarine and
when through the arbitration process and hadthe arbitrators side with him, he had

(31:07):
saved and marked every single supplement thathe had taken since I believe like two
thousand nine or two thousand and ten, and they found the substance that it
was Austrian. They found whatever productto contained the Austrian that he tested for,
and you thought a skill tried tohave him suspended for you know,

(31:30):
years, even with you know,all the evidence that it was clearly unmarked
on the container. You know,it was clearly a spiked supplement, and
he went to arbitration and fought itand he won. But that's the only
instance of that happening. Other peoplehave had reduced sentences for finding Austrian the

(31:51):
system, But unfortunately, I wasnot in the h what I say,
not in the position to have everysingle thing in my cabinet tested to find
it, you know, and andhave outside products that I couldn't even you
know, I would have to gothrough every receipt of anything that they eat

(32:12):
to find out what it is.So it's very tough. It's a tough
thing too, I guess navigate inorder to you know, get out of
the get out of the test failure. What is oscarine? So you kind
of took us through, but whatis it supposed to do. I mean,
why is it a banned substance.I guess it's like a it's under

(32:38):
the I think anabolic agents is it'slisted under with you SATA. But it's
like a I guess would be likea low level steward or that's not what
it is, you know. Imean there's different sort, there's different chemical
compounds, but I think we wouldhave similar effects to what most people would

(33:00):
assume steroids would have, you know, like increased muscle mass. You know,
Okay, gotcha. So I meancoming out of that, how difficult
is that when in terms of you, you're telling the world, hey,
I'm innocent, I didn't do that. I mean it just unfortunately my experience

(33:20):
and just as a sports fan,it's like every fighter, every athlete almost
says the same thing, and youknow, some of them are guilty as
sin. And I'm certainly not implyingthat you are. But I mean,
just do you feel like you've beenvindicated in any way just because there are
other examples? Yeah, I think, you know, I think what will

(33:43):
happen eventually is that they will haveI mean, you said it doesn't test
everything to see what it's a sexon the body yard. You know,
they just look at Okay, waita minute, this substance is supposed to
do this, so it's we're notput on the band list, you know,
So there's no telling. I don'treally know what Austrian would do.

(34:05):
I don't I have no clue.It's tough because I was in the same
boat. You know. Every timesomebody would say if something come on,
like really, you know, you'reyou're saying that you didn't take You're saying
it was a spike supple in inthis or that. But now being on
the other end and looking at allthe different cases, and I've talked to
other people have gone through the samething. There was a wrestler, amateur

(34:30):
wrestler by the name of Obi Blancwho was very high level wrestler and went
through the same thing and had overtwenty different supplements tested, over twenty of
them, and they all came backwith nothing in him. And it's like,
there's no way that he that somebody'sgonna go out there and spend twenty
thousand dollars just to why to thepublic about this in and he competed to

(34:51):
the sport or which nobody. Youknow, it sound like he's making a
ton of money. So there werea ton of other instances. There were
some marathon or ultra marathon runners orstuff like that, ultra cross country.
I can't remember one of these,but some runners who they're salt pills that
they had purchased kim back containing osterine. So you know, something as simple

(35:16):
as emergency is not tested by theUS government. So there's a number of
products out there that you probably consumeon a semi regular basis that you think
are you know, tested by theFDA or whatever, but they're not.
When do you feel like the averageperson out there cares? I mean,

(35:37):
once you get beyond the pot shotsof so and so failed this, and
you know, you get that onlineand mentality, of course, you can't
wait to take the pot shot ifit's somebody who fails. But I mean
there's for whatever reason. I mean, there's actors who have been named,
there's actors who are clearly on things, and people don't seem to give a
damn. But when it comes tosports, I mean, is it different.

(36:00):
Yeah. Maybe it's because I'm justgetting older and I'm becoming more jaded
after this situation, But to me, the way that I look at the
entire thing is now it's it's stuntwork, you know, It's what how
much money am I willing to putmy body through a training camp and put

(36:20):
my life on the line by fightingsomebody else in order to make you know,
it's one of the I know,I know like it. The more
I'm around m m A, andthe more you really look at it,
the more you realize it's not asport, okay, So how deeply do

(36:45):
we have to treat it like asport. The commissions aren't there to safeguard
the participants. The commissions are thereto make money. The promoters are not
there to search safe competition and findout who the best fighter is. They're
there to make money. And thequicker we realize at the quicker you realize
that by limiting and telling a grownperson what he can and can't do and

(37:07):
put into their body, it becomesridiculous, you know, because you're imposing
certain limitations on one end that areartificial, and then you're you know,
you're not letting somebody take advantage onthe other side. So to me at
this point, and quite fynically,I'll be honest, I don't use anything
I've been tested by Shada multiple multiple, multiple times since since my failed test.

(37:30):
I stayed in the testing pool forthe past two years before the UFC
released me. So I've been gettingtested and all those tests came back positive
or you know, with nothing inthem. If he came back with this
positive result for me, So I'mnot using anything. But my opinion on
guys using pds has changed a lot. I mean, they basically I just

(37:54):
had two years of my life essentiallyin a way of ruined. All right.
I had my livelihood, you know, the way that I make money
taken away from me. And thenat the end, at the end of
the two years, at the conclusionof it all, the UFC just shoves
me by the wayside, screws meover, lets me go. Uh,

(38:16):
you know, with six weeks lefton the suspension, and it's just it's
demoralizing. It sucks in a way. I'm sick of everything that has to
do with MMA, but at thesame time, it's something that I love.
So it's a very tough situation andtough things for me right now.
Yeah, I can totally understand it. So that just did six weeks left

(38:40):
and they opt to release you myunderstanding, and I have been asking,
I'm sorry to touch you off.I've been asking to have a fight scheduled
for a month. You couldn't tellme at the beginning of that, hey
we're gonna let you go. Thatdecision couldn't been made then. It couldn't
have been made a year earlier whenI had asked for my release. You
know, I can't This changed theentire course of my life. I could

(39:01):
have been doing a number of things. I could have learned the trade in
that time, you know, withouthaving this tarret dangled, disarmed me by
what I thought was going to bea return of the UFC. And yeah,
some days I'm really really angry aboutthe whole situation. Other days it's
a blessing in disguise. So,well, yeah, it was gonna bring

(39:21):
you did ask for your release.What was their explanation for not granting it?
I don't know. They just didn'tgive you one. Yep, Nope,
Dana said no, that was whatI was told. And I mean,
were there other I don't follow MMAclosely these days, believe it or
not, that there just became toomuch MMA to follow, and well,

(39:44):
look at pro wrestling today. Butbut yeah, I mean, were there
was it like a widespread thing orwas it more of an isolated type of
situation they let go. I thinklike there was reported maybe fifteen or so
guys. They also let a numberof other guys contracts just expire and didn't

(40:05):
let them go. But yeah,here's another thing. It's like I could
have I could have just sat myass on the sidelines for two years if
I didn't care, I could havedone something else. Instead, I tried
to raise my own profile so thatwhen I returned I would have even more
fans. And like, how shortsighteddo you have to be if you're the

(40:28):
UFC. I mean, maybe it'sbecause I've been outspoken about things that they've
done that are shitty in the past. Maybe it's uh, maybe it's they
just think I'm old and washed up. I'm a terrible fighter. But I've
been training every single day for thepast two years. I had a broken
arm, I was out for threeweeks out of the gym, and then
I was back in there training MMAevery single day. So to just be

(40:52):
like passed over and looked at andand I don't know if it's a thing
I'm washed up. I don't knowif they just they think up a pain
in the ass. I don't knowwhat it is, but they're wrong.
And so where do you go fromhere? As a fighter? I've got
a number of offers, but nothingthat I can nothing has been put from

(41:13):
ink to paper yet. So untilthat happens, I don't really have anything
to say. But you haven't foughtyour last fight. No, no,
no, no, not even closegood I did. So when you ask
for re release, I mean you'reto still suspended. So it's not like
you could have joked you say,a bellator and fought there. Were you

(41:36):
asking for release because you had opportunitieselsewhere in pro wrestling? U nought overseas?
There have been you know President sentCrow Cop was one of them that
that went and fought overseas. Butyeah, I mean also just he had
like full rein over over my contractand what I can and can't do the

(41:58):
past two years and changes not onlywhat I can and can't do, but
my entire mindset and what I couldn'tcouldn't do. You know, And was
it during the suspension that you startedshifting back to pro wrestling? I mean,
I know you were in the cornerof Bobby Fishing Kylo Riley at that
Ring of Honor event, But Ibelieve that was prior to the suspension.

(42:19):
Yeah, yeah, that was longbefore, years before actually, And no,
I had not shifted back to doingpro wrestling until after suspension. So,
you know, luckily, I guessit has been something I had been
thinking about for a long time.And you know, one thing is I
guess, you know, really minorroSuzuki. I could point to him as

(42:44):
like an inspiration in a lot ofdifferent ways, but one of them is
the fact that he's a little bitlater in age. Right, he went
through an entire MMA career and he'sstill out there wrestling. Yeah, a
lot of people would say, like, oh man, you're getting back into
it at thirty four, five yearsolder. I mean, that's that's pretty
tough. But when you look atwhat he's been able to do, and

(43:05):
he's he's far older than me,you know, and I'm not saying that
I'm anywhere posted at his level atthis point, but he is, you
know, a great blueprint or agreat example of what you can do at
that age, even after training foryears and years and years and putting your
body through hell. So I kindof just look at him and keep talking
forward. And so when you makethe decision, Okay, I'm gonna get

(43:27):
back into pro wrestling, do youjust book a match? Do you go
through some sort of training? Takeme through that. Yeah, I was.
I went back to let's do sometraining at Future Stars and Wrestling here
in Las Vegas for a few months. I'd go like once a week for

(43:47):
a few hours. Luckily, thetoughest part of wrestling is not the physical
aspect in a lot of ways,it's the performance art aspect and learning how
to get the crowd on your sideor against you while you're out there.

(44:09):
And unfortunately, the only way tolike really get good at that is by
doing it and being in front ofthe crowd. So, you know,
I could have taken all the bumpsin the world and ran all the drolls
that I wanted, but what Ireally need to do was get out there
and get in front of the crowd. It's one of those things. It's
just the more experience I have,the more experience I get, the more

(44:30):
I know exactly what does work,what doesn't work, what works. At
certain times, I want to docertain things and I try to you know,
think about these things constantly as I'mout there and before the match,
turning the match, after the match, and you know, basically, I
just I don't know. It's justlike MMA, you know, it's all.

(44:51):
It's all. It's just my hobby. It is my passion. It's
you know, the thing. Ione of the things I care about the
most. So I'm trying to putmy all into it. And what's what's
the trougher lifestyle. I mean,obviously people, well there's one fight,
but you're doing so much training wrestling, I mean just putting the financial part
of this side with the indie showsand everything else. I mean, is

(45:15):
there one that's tougher than the other? I would say wrestling is more taxing
mentally and physically in a way dueto the travel, you know, Emma
is sometimes it's largely depending on yourstyle and how hard you train as well.

(45:38):
You know, I could go tothe gym for two hours and you
could go to the gym for twohours, and we could have two completely
different experiences as far as, uh, you know, the volume of work
I'm doing or what you're doing.But one of the things that you can't
like she is the travel that youhave to do this wrestling right, and

(46:00):
there's no there's no easy way tosit in a car for six hours.
There's no easy way to get onthe plane and go up thousands of feet
and works, you know, drierthan being in the desert, and then
go back down the thousands of feetwhere you know your body's going through a
temperature change and screwing up your sucha nervous system. So there's nothing you

(46:21):
could do to kind of combat that. Whereas with MMA training, you know,
you could take it easier. Hecould rely on technical skills. You
could we could grapple and one personsgo really holder the other person to play
defense, you know, so youcan save yourselfs in ways in MMA that
you necessarily can't in pro wrestling.So yeah, that's pro wrestling s harder.

(46:44):
Okay. And if someone said,you come up with whatever hypothetical situation
you want, Tom, you onlyget to choose. You get to choose
between the two. You can haveanother pro wrestling match or you can have
a fight. Which is it,am I'm thinking the same amount of money.
Yeah, everything's equal, but youhave to choose. But I get
we won't even make it just onemore, But just in general, if

(47:05):
you had to choose, you wereput in that position, everything's equal,
what do you go with, Well, they're okay, they're not equal.
Okay, I need I need moreclarification here, because if everything's equal and
it's one to one, one matchto one match, then it's going to
be a professional wrestling contest all daybecause you don't have to deal with the
mental stress that's knowing you have tostep change and site somebody possibly to the

(47:28):
debt. Hopefully you don't have todo that in the pro wrestling match.
But if it's going through a year'sworth of toil and preparation on the road,
having a stand shape and you're aroundbecause you've got to keep your shirt
off and have ads every single daythat you're out there in the ring,
that becomes a little bit harder.And I think if you look at it

(47:49):
from like a year's worth of Mand A or a year's worth of pay
wrestling, the year's worth of Mand A is gonna be a lot easier
on your body, and probably you'llbe a little more sane at the end
of the sure. And how longonce you started training again did it take
you to feel like, Okay,I'm back at the level I was all
those years ago. I don't thinkI'll physically, in some ways ever be

(48:13):
at that same level. Just becauseI was younger, I was a little
bit more reckless, but mentally I'mfar far superior now, so it probably
didn't take me very long to befair, I think now just being older
and being more experience of life ingeneral. As Kaid dividends and I've gone

(48:36):
back in the wrestling ring. Youknow, a lot of the guys who
are on the indie scene are guyswho are looking to take a step up
and they're looking to get some biggeropportunities. They are looking to go bigger
places. I've been in a bigcompany for years and years and years.
I've been through media training, I'vebeen through press conferences. I've been on
in somet of thousands of fans,you know, the thousands of fans.

(49:00):
So for me, I have alittle bit more experienced as far as life
goes when it comes to those things, and quite frankly, that helps you
know, it conveys, it comesacross when you're out there wrestling, just
through body language, and you couldtell if somebody's confident okay, and wouldn't
led you to Major League Wrestling.Uh well, actually, you mentioned read

(49:25):
dragging earlier, and one of thepeople who had helped set up that entire
thing was a court bower. Sowhen an ALW decided that they were going
to come back and relaunched, Iwas contacted. I was actually I was
told about it previously, very crypticallyby MSL, But once they came back,

(49:51):
I you know, decided to jumpaboard. I was a fan of
n LW and its first incarnation.I was living in Florida at the time.
We watched it all the time onSun Sports. So to come back
and the wrestle for him is kindof cool for me. I'm sure if
some of these younger wrestlers don't rememberthat time, but I do, so

(50:15):
I was happy to come back andwrestle for him. I still have a
lot of friends in Orlando, soit was very natural for me to just
get back in there, and there'skind of like a mini vacation for me
in a lot of ways. Nowwe're out traveling around different places in New
York for Wanderdale, and both ofthose places have had awesome crowds. So

(50:37):
I just think that the team's goingto continue to keep picking up, and
the ship's gonna keep rolling forward,especially after after seeing the War Didames Crowd
and just seeing that whole show ingeneral. Well, Court and his team
clearly love your work, to thepoint that I even jokingly asked in one
of my TV reviews if you havestock in that company, because, I

(50:57):
mean, things seem to be goingso well for you there. You're all
over the show, you won theBattle Riot. I mean, is the
feeling mutual in terms of do youhave any special affinity for MLW compared to
the other independent groups you work for? Each independent group, you know,
I don't want to the place iswhere I work like once and then never

(51:21):
come back. It's very tough tocall the rapport there. But each group
that I work for regularly, eachplace has a different vibe, and you
know, I appreciate each and everysingle one. MLW is the first place
where I've been, you know,besides the UFC, where it's run like
a like a company, like aprofessional production. Yeah, you know,

(51:45):
there's agents there, there's people whohave been at the top, who are
putting together a television show and tryingto get over like a broader picture,
a bigger message. Just each matchon its own individually, and that's what
a lot of independent shows are there. Okay, hey we're gonna go out
there. We got ten minutes,we're gonna try to steal the show.
And then the next match is,hey, we got six minutes. We're

(52:07):
gonna fit in our stuff. We'regonna try to steal the show. Where
does this MLW. I go thereand sort I have an idea of what's
gonna happen and what's gonna go on, but I have to listen to them
and look at the bigger picture thatthey have and that they want to present,
and then try to fit my ideasinto it. And at first initially

(52:27):
it was like, but well,I gotta do this, this is this
kind of sucks. But as timegoes on, it goes by, it's
I kinda I love it because it'sa challenge for me to kind of like
go, Okay, this is whatI want to convey, this is what
they want. How do we makeit fit together as destiny we can for
the show. So yeah, Imean I love going out there for MLW.

(52:52):
The I don't want to I don'twant to break Chavee too much here.
But most of the time when yousee the random are men at MLW,
those are my buddies from college.I wondered who those guys were.
So yeah, so it's pretty coolthat, Hey, you know, I'm
here at MLW and my my randomwrestling buddy, you know, the guy

(53:14):
that used to go my friend Iused to go in frank with for years
and years and years to come andhang out in the corner there. So
yeah, it's a lot of funfor me. I've been a little bit
confused by Team Filthy at times,because one week you guys will be feuding
with baby Faces, in another weekyou'll be feuding with like stud Stable.
What is team filthy in that regard? What do you mean? You never

(53:38):
met somebody that some days you likethem, some days you out sure,
some days they're just some things thatyou're like, hey, that's a good
guy. Then you think about itand oh, lait a minute, he
was there when somebody took a crapin somebody's hat. Is you're really a
good guy. So that's one ofthe things that I've enjoyed a lot about

(53:59):
MLW, too, is that thereseems to be a gray area with a
lot of guys, and it's like, you know, if you are you
know, on one day, youcould like some of the stuff that we're
doing, and then the next dayyou could think, well, look,
that wasn't the right thing to do. That was that was kind of deplorable
in a way, you know.And I think that there's people like that

(54:20):
that exist in the real world,and a lot of times they don't get
used correctly in wrestling, you know, like they're just left in limbo.
Is this guy a good guy?Is a bad guy? We can't tell
by his action? Well, ineach situation with me, I'm pretty sure
you can kind of tell whether I'myou know, an antagonist or a protagonist.
And that's I think a lot ofpeople are both antagonists and protagonists in

(54:45):
real life, whether they realize itor not. And you know, I'm
just an extension of that. Now, I don't expect you to spoil anything,
but is there is it just thatsimple it's kind of shades of gray,
or is it now there's you know, kind there's an actual long term
plan for this where you might endup on one side or the other.

(55:06):
I don't I'm not in control ofthat, so I believe that there is
a long term plan. I knowthat I know that there's a long term
plan as to what the future holdsfor myself and Team Sophie, but I
don't know how long term of aplan that is. This past War Game

(55:28):
show, I rustled Joey Janella,who a lot of fans love as well.
So you know, after beating JackSlagger, eliminating him a Battle Riot
and on Fusion a couple of weeksago, you'd think, well, clearly
this guy is a fan favorite.He's a baby face, right, I'm
out there rust on Joey Janella.So you know there was characters like that

(55:49):
in the past. I mean Imentioned Dean Malenko before, and it's like
I couldn't tell you whether he's ababy face or heel. For the majority
of his ruck he was just outthere kicking ass. That's a good point.
Yeah, you're right. I meanyou think of miss the heel because
he's in there with Mysterio, Butit wasn't like he had a ton of
heelish type. He wasn't doing allout rule breaking cheating if you will.

(56:13):
Yeah, I mean Jack Swagger acouple of weeks ago, I defeated him
with a roll up, right,Okay, a professional wrestling a wrestling hole
his forte. Well, I mean, sure I may have poked him in
the eye before that, but Ithe guy I was beating me up in
the ropes, clearly disobeying the rest. Push the rap out of the way.
You know, when you're backs upagainst the wall in a realized situation

(56:37):
and somebody is they're they're just asdirty, They're they're fighting dirty. What
are you going to obey some unwrittenrule and some guys got you up against
the wall and he's just hooking youand kicking you in the nuts? You're
not gonna take your shot at hiseye when you get a chance. No,
of course you are. So.I mean maybe one instance just looks
at a cheating. It's looked atas cheating, but I mean, blistically,

(57:00):
in a realized situation, anybody woulddo the same thing. I think
you touched on it briefly. Butare you the type of guy when it
comes to something like MLW where youknow it is more than just a one
off, it's a regular thing.It's on television. Do you show up
and just take what's given to you? Or do you like to have some
creative input. I'd like to havecreative input, for sure, because in

(57:25):
a way, I mean, themore I know what the other person wants
or what the company wants, themore I can get into it. You
know. It's it's just kind ofa well, once you go out there
and want you to be a heel, well, you know I could do
that in a number of different ways. I could go out there and cheat,
because clearly I shouldn't need to cheatbecause I'm a skilled fighter. You

(57:46):
know, I could go out thereand not cheat and just be cotty,
you know. So it's always goodto have a little bit more direction.
And MLW and Core and Bruce andeverybody there has gone a remember the job
a kind of you know, tellingme what they want from the character and
allowing me also to kind of adjustit over time, you know, as

(58:08):
time is gonna buy these kind ofmore and more rains with the character and
what I can and can't say duringchromos and as kind of the direction I
should go. And I think thatthe fact I was willing to come in
and you know, basically listen toall of their ideas and try as far

(58:29):
as they could to fit what theywanted has paid off, you know,
in the opposite with them giving mea little bit more freedom. Is the
other than having your buddies in yourcorners or anything you could point to that,
Hey, this was my idea thatwe've seen on the MLW show so
far, And I mean it dependshow far back you go in the shows.

(58:50):
I mean, the the original gimmickof you know, the bucket,
the banner, having the fight team, that's that's me, you know,
that's the gimmick I've used on theindies, some of the indies over the
past like eighteen months, and Istarted doing it there and it started working
there, So it's kind of justdawn, you know, it's kind of

(59:13):
gone since there as far as everything'sgo. I mean, no, it's
more little stuff like in probos aswe're hashing out what needs to be done
and what doesn't need to be doneinstead of me having a follow a rigid
structure and like, hey, thisis what we're saying. You know,
it's a little bit more open enginesfor me so I can come up with

(59:35):
my own dialogue. And are youunder any sort of exclusive with MLW?
Are you free to work elsewhere?I mean beyond just the indies. Yeah,
I can work. I can workfor other promotions. There's a very
limited amount of places that I'm notavailable to work for. However, MLW
does have first first bibbs at mydates, and that's fair. I know

(01:00:02):
today on Twitter Core borrowers actually gota lot of the days are going to
move to Saturday nights because fans havebeen asking for it. So there's,
uh, I guess some more datesoff my schedule events. Oh that's good,
I mean, yeah, it is. And that's one of the nice
perks of MLW has been those Thursdayshows, I would imagine, because that

(01:00:22):
keeps the weekend open for you guys. Yeah. Well, luckily I'm not
booked that much or unluckily it's nowAre you a guy who the ultimate goal
is WWE? Are you content doingMLW Indies maybe Japan someday. Uh,
that's an interesting question because perhaps atone point my goal was WW. Perhaps

(01:00:45):
at one point in my wrestling career, surely when I was younger. But
I mean to be honest, I'vebeen in front of you know, twenty
thousand fans fighting, I've been allaround the world. I've had these opportunities
I don't need to be under theww's banner to be happy with the way

(01:01:08):
my wrestling career is gonna end andthe way it's gonna go. If it's
an opportunity that presents itself and itmakes sense financially and for my family,
then sure it's something I consider.But the thing could be said for any
company out there, whether it's anAMA or Pro Wrestling. So it's not

(01:01:30):
as if I'm out there and I'mtrying to get to the b B and
if I if I don't, I'mgonna be really upset at the end of
the day. Now, that's notthe goal. The goal for me is
to be able to make money doingprofessional wrestling during mixed martial arts and to

(01:01:51):
do something basically that I love.I don't care if it's uh, you
know, if it's WWE paying me. I don't care if Well w paying
me. I don't care if it'suh, you know, Chucky Cheese that's
paying me. If I get togo there and I get to wrestle and
I get to fight, and Ican do something that I love that I'm
more than happy to do. Itwants this use out of thing ends.
I think you can take Chuckie,I really do. We'll see. I've

(01:02:15):
heard he's uh, I don't know. He's got a good chin. She's
protected pretty well. So any thoughtson someday I believe you mentioned you did
some teaching. Any thoughts on dustingoff the teaching degree, I mean it's
had something maybe once the Nope,not at all, not interesting, Nope,
nope. Why is that? Iam too emotionally charged? And that's

(01:02:40):
one of those jobs where if youtake anything home, if you take home
other like kids problems, it's gonnaruin you. And I don't, as
bad as it is to say,I just you know, it doesn't sound
like my idea of a good time. That's understandable. It only took a

(01:03:02):
four year degree to figure that out, though. Town Well, I do
instruct Mark Lawrence, which you knowis teaching there. You get your fits
that way. Yeah, but it'salso in most cases people are showing up
because they want to, not becausethey're being forced to by a broken education
system. So well, that's foranother day. Exactly Well, I do

(01:03:27):
want to close by asking about afew of your peers. I'm sure you
get the salant, but I can'tresist tell me about Ronda Rowsey's working WWA.
Your thoughts on how she's done thusfar. Well, by all accounts
and everything I've seen, she's donephenomenal. I've watched her bigger pay per
view matches. I do not watchraw regularly, but from what I've seen,

(01:03:50):
you know, she's as good asvirtually anybody else. I mean she's
not a clearly she's not at thetechnical or experienced level of girls like Natalia
or Oscar some of the other workers. But for her experience on what's unbelievable
what she can do and how shecomes across out there, and I mean,
she's only going to get better andless bait completely blow something. So

(01:04:15):
I mean, I'm a fan,you know, I'm more I'm and I'm
more of a fan. I wasnever the biggest Runer Rousey fan as a
fighter, you know. I thoughta lot of times that it was a
byproduct of a developing woman's division,you know. And I think just the
the amount of hype that was givento her by people who should know better,

(01:04:39):
you know, always worked against herwith some of the hardcore and then
they fans, which I am oneof them. So I was never the
biggest round of Roussey stand as afighter, but huge fan of her as
a wrestler, and from what I'veheard, she's like an extremely hard worker
when she's out there. So Imean, I've got nothing bad to say.
It's great. How do you thinkTravis Brown will do? He?

(01:05:00):
Is he gonna give a shot?I knew there's been some rumblings. I
don't know if there's anything concrete,but there's certainly been some rumblings that he
may. Hey, I'm sure he'llbe great too. You know, I
don't know how much he's into itor what his background as pro wrestling fan
is, but I'm sure you can'tbe around Ronda Rousy and the other horsewoman

(01:05:21):
as they're transitioning into pro wrestling andnot you know, fall in love with
it. So I'm sure he'll begreat. He was a great athlete as
far as anyways go. So I'mgonna lead you with this question. How
great is Shannon Basley A scale ofone to ten, like a twenty totally?

(01:05:45):
U. Yeah, A big fanof her. As I mentioned earlier,
I like to watch wrestling and I'dlike to do wrestling that resembles a
fight, and she has become oneof the best at making you like believe
what's going on in there. Youknow, I believe she's trying to win
a competition. I believe you knowthat she has that sort of regression and

(01:06:08):
that demeanor out there is fake,you know, And I think there's a
lot to be said just for that. A lot of people will focus on
moves and spots and we need towe need to hit this sequence at this
time. But there's a lot thatcan be said for just going out there
and making the crowd believe that you'retrying to win, that you are trying

(01:06:30):
to fight somebody, and that youwant to beat them with your bare hands.
What do you think Kane Alaska's woulddo if he decides to commit to
this, Well, judging by theamount of surgeries and problems have with his
body already, I would advise himto stay away really well. I mean

(01:06:51):
those comes in and works like broncheither way to gives you anything. But
is there anyone in in that lineof work that you're like, man,
you got to do this, orfor that matter, a woman, anybody
in mma that you just think wouldbe tailor made for pro wrestling. I've
always told Kyle Kingsbury now is likeone of the head guys as far as

(01:07:15):
supplementation and human optimization goes on it. I've always told us him he need
to go to professional wrestling, butnever listened to me. He would be
phenomenal, he would be a superstar. But of course, what do I
know? And the most as faras as far as carn guys go,

(01:07:41):
you know, really, I can'tthink of too many off the top of
my head that get it, youknow, well, the most important question
I can ask you if I makeit down to your area down in Vegas,
Lesner Cormier. Who wins Cormier?And why wait? You know what

(01:08:01):
now that I think about it,in no way lesser gotta lesser. Wait
okay, now, now you're scaringme. I'm I'm gonna place a bet
based on what you're telling me.And you've already wallered. Okay, Forrmier
has never been the universal champion,and that's what I'm based. Do you
have a real prediction for that fightif it happens Cormier. I would have

(01:08:27):
thought, and I did think thatstep A was going to defeat him U
And then I thought step A wasa great opponent to be brought you know,
stop a couple of take downs,knock him out. Yeah, I
thought it was the tailor made fightfor him. Well, Formier had other
plans and I was surprised when ithappens. But I learned my lessing and
camp bet against him unless it isJohn Jones standing across. Oh yeah,

(01:08:49):
there you go. That's very true. We've learned that a few times.
Hey, everybody follow Tom at BuildyTom Lawler on Twitter. Check out the
MLW Fusion Show including war Games thisFriday night on B in Sports, and
again, if you don't get bin Sports, check out the MLW YouTube
page. New shows available every Saturday. You can go back and watch all

(01:09:11):
twenty sum shows right now if youwant to. But Tom, before we
get out of here, anything youwant to plug, a pro wrestling tea
store, upcoming dates, anything else? Now, just check out my upcoming
dates. You'd follow me on Twitterand Instagram at Filthy Tom Lawler. The
dates are posted up there as well. This upcoming Friday, I'll be in

(01:09:32):
Cleveland for aw Wrestling. Sunday,i will be in East Cornetword Islands for
Beyond Wrestling. The following Saturday,I will be in Crown Point Indiana for
Black Label Pro and then October fourthMLW Fury Road October twelve Pristie's Wrestling in
Hermiston, Oregon. And that's itfor the foreseeable future. We got to

(01:09:57):
find a way to get you uphere with first wrestling at the legend very
First Avenue nightclub. M I believeone of my best friends Liz up in
that area, so perhaps can getit done. I wouldn't love to see
it. Well, thank you somuch for the time, man, I
really do appreciate it, all right, you know problem, Thank you so
much. The name Filthy is ahit with the ladies who knew. Take

(01:10:33):
note, single guys, I'm guessingdirty will work if you don't want to
just outright steel Tim's nickname. Iknew a guy named Stinky once, but
he didn't want to be called stinkyin front of the journals, so I
would avoid that one by that dirtyname. Let me not Howells. Subscribe
to our podcast by searching for apro wrestling boom on Apple Podcasts or anywhere

(01:10:56):
else. Show us that Builthy fivestart to one one. I see what
I did. Then go check outmy appearance on the jym Wats record podcast
and stop back and join me righthere next week on the boat