Building an Equitable Society JD Mass on Justice, Inclusion, and Real Change

Tony welcomes JD Mass for an thought-provoking interview & inspiring discussion on what it takes to build an equitable society. From addressing systemic barriers to actionable solutions JD Mass shares his thoughts on his personal experience with racism and prejudice and his viiews on making meaningful progress toward fairness and inclusion. Don't miss this powerful conversation!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Our foundering fathers here in this country, brought about the
only true revolution that has ever taken place in man's history.
Evolve the idea that you and I have within ourselves,
the god given right and the ability to determine our
own destiny.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
The United States of America the greatest nation in history,
ordained by our founders to be guided by divine providence,
but today we are witnessing the orchestrated disintegration of America.
Take a few seconds and take a look around your town,
your state, look at your country and your world, and

(00:39):
boldly ask what in the hell is going on?

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
We didn't pass it on to our children in the bloodstream.
The only way they can inherit the freedom we have
known is if we fight for it, protect it, defend it,
and then hand it to them with the well taught
lessons of how they in their lifetime. Let's do the same.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Welcome to the podcast Project Third Eye Opened, where we
dare to question with boldness the events that are unfolding
around us that others won't. At the end of the day,
it is we the people who will decide the destiny
of the Nation. Now introducing your host, Tony L.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
Greens there one.

Speaker 4 (01:29):
This is the project that I opened and this is
another very special UH interview that I'm bringing to you,
and we are speaking with mister Jesse Mass.

Speaker 5 (01:45):
He describes himself as an activist, entrepreneur. He actually a
fellow podcast hoster, an author, and he is dedicated to
a very interesting subject that are all of y'all.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
No. In regards to.

Speaker 5 (02:04):
He called you achieving the equitable society, that keyword being equality.
So let's get his from the viewing v point on
this and see how it is interesting to me and you.
So let's let's move forward. How you doing, Jesse?

Speaker 6 (02:25):
I'm doing all right? And I also go by j D.
Either one. I know my name popped up as Jesse,
but yeah, what.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Is I guess we know what Jamie? What what is?

Speaker 1 (02:36):
What is d?

Speaker 6 (02:37):
D is the first initial of my middle name. I
actually been going by j D. My dad used to
call me that as a young child.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
But yeah, okay, well let me let me correct that
j duh. That's all right, if that go along with it?

Speaker 6 (02:49):
The right play I'm gonna call you play.

Speaker 5 (02:55):
There you go, there, you go, tell the first about
your j d what do you do and when and
why should we care?

Speaker 6 (03:04):
So, my parents wanted to raise their children. Uh and
for those that are just listening as a as white
children in and around black community, to them, that was
very important to give us an opportunity at a life
they'd never had coming from that era of real segregation

(03:27):
and whatnot.

Speaker 5 (03:30):
Let's be clear when you say they, do you mean
your parents or the community?

Speaker 6 (03:35):
My parents being they thank you for that, and so, uh,
you know, civil rights was important to my father, especially.
My mother had close relationships that also wanted that, and
she she was They were both kind of into fighting

(03:56):
the systems that be my mother.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
Let's let it, but I understand what part of the
country is this?

Speaker 6 (04:02):
Okay? So this is in Saint Louis.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
Okay, okay, okay, what period.

Speaker 6 (04:08):
During I was born in seventy five, so you know,
we moved to Saint Louis. We were in Philadelphia, my
mother was in med school and we moved to Saint
Louis in the at nineteen eighty Okay, so.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Grew up at eighty the.

Speaker 5 (04:25):
Civil rights yeah, I guess sixty sixty five sons Okay, great.

Speaker 6 (04:31):
Yep, thank you for clarifying and so it was still, though,
very divided, and we moved into the only community that
was kind of integrating at that time or had recently integrated,
and that was called University City, which anybody in Saint
Louis knows University City is the greatest place on earth,
at least at that time for sure, all right. And

(04:54):
so we moved right next door to who became my
best friends and their family, and it was grandmother, aunts
and uncles. It was you know, the four boys brothers
that I became best friends with, the older two, and
so from four years old, I started to become a

(05:15):
part of this black family and threw them at other people.
And even though the area I grew up in was
fifty percent white, the school district was over eighty percent black,
and really when you got into middle school and high school,
it was over ninety percent black attendees. And so I

(05:36):
developed friendships with my peers, and I happened to be
the least least melanated person amongst them. And because of that,
I got to experience what life was like, sort of
how they were treated by society, how I was treated
differently by society, and I got to start to understand Oh.

Speaker 5 (05:59):
So, let me ask you one more question. I'm curious
to ask the questions to top of my head. What's
your ethnicity?

Speaker 6 (06:06):
Oh, I'm I'm a white Jewish male.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (06:12):
So I So I got to see, you know, discrimination,
I got to see police, you know, harassing us. I
got to see how they weren't able to take things
back in them all and I could go back in
and take them right back. I got to see and
experience a lot of different things. I got to see

(06:33):
an experience when we took my black friends to my
grandparents country club, and you know, and they weren't part
of the help, but they were able to jump in
the pool, and and just the looks that we got
and the murmurs and the talking, and you know how
my grand parents were uncomfortable and all of these different things.
And I really just wanted to understand why. So my

(06:55):
life journey has been really to kind of understand why
racism started, Why did it, why does it exist? What
makes us weaponize segregation instead of be curious about other cultures?
How has that system grown from the time it started?
And so I've been on a journey to do so,

(07:15):
and I'm now sharing what I've experienced, what I've learned
and what I've found in my theories.

Speaker 5 (07:22):
And because I'm interested, because I kind of started on
a similar journey.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
I'm nineteen sixty five.

Speaker 5 (07:31):
Baby born in the in a southern family. Forced my
dad was in the military, so I was very fortunate
to be able to travel and not just grow up
in the southern community like my cousins and grandparents, so have.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
More of a worldview in regards to what is my
world belief all right, And like you, I was curious about.

Speaker 5 (08:07):
Cultures, why my people were treated so much differently from
people who we who us as a nation went war
against Japanese, the Mexicans, even with Jews. Jews got a
culture that has my oppression and you know, someone say

(08:33):
worse than ours because you guys got pushed out of countries,
you know.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
So I was curious about.

Speaker 5 (08:40):
That, and that led me on my path to.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Understand what's up? You know, why is it's an.

Speaker 5 (08:50):
Issue and why is it still being an issue. But
I kind of think our past went in litup is
different by how where we ended up. Because so I'm curious,
what have you learned on your journey?

Speaker 6 (09:09):
So I learned that racism is about controlling resources, right,
It's about it's not the we use discrimination, we use bigotry,
we use these other harmful methods.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
I like to be clear who's we.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (09:35):
Well, European colonizing culture, right, this is where it this
is where it really started. And so but in a
discussion about identifying racism, where anybody, uh, the we is
kind of all of us in the discussion often see
something and go, oh, that was racist because they discriminated,

(09:57):
or that was racist because they don't want that book read,
or that was right. Yet the real racism is controlling resources.
It was a competition to control resources. And so that's
where the real harm is done. In controlling resources, which
means you're controlling opportunities, which means you have systems built

(10:20):
to designed to make things accessible or not accessible, all
of these different things. So I wanted to understand, well,
where did that come from? And if you look at
Europe where less melanated people occupied, especially back you know
six hundred to two thousand years ago, these less melanated

(10:42):
people occupied in area that was less sun, which makes
sense because we don't have the melanin to absorb the sun,
so we need to keep our butts out of the sun,
and we didn't have SPF fifty lotions and all these
different things to keep us occupied. So we were in
that area. Well, that area, because it has less sun,

(11:02):
doesn't have all the natural resources that the earth provides,
and our bodies need all of those natural resources to
be whole and balanced in all of that. So now
we're getting sick when you have less resources. So for
those viewers that can't see, I'm holding up a glass
of water. If you and I thought this was the

(11:24):
last of the water and we both need water, we
wouldn't be having a friendly conversation. Every time I took
a sip of this water, you would be like, that
was a sip I could have had for me and
my family. And so now we develop in this zero
sum mentality, which leads us to a competition, which, if
you understand the term race, we're in a race. Everything

(11:47):
is about competition in our economic structure. That is the
first thing you learn. There is a scarcity of resources
on the planet. Therefore we need to control those resources,
and we're in competition with everybody to gain control of
those resources. So we have such a competitive nature in
our society and Look, I'm not saying this from a

(12:11):
give every kid a trophy and all of that. In sports.
Let it be competitive, but don't let the competition of
sports fuel over into the rest of our life. Let's
understand context, because why can't you and I share space
and podcast land and not be in competition, but just

(12:33):
share the space and both of us have our contributions
to that. Why can't we collaborate, Why can't we cooperate?
Why do we have to see each other as competition?
And if you look at how ingrained that is in
our society, we have such a level of competition in everything,

(12:53):
and then we want to know why humanity doesn't exist
because we don't see each other as humans. We see
each other as competitors. They have we don't. And if
you start to look at the history of Europeans and
Greco Roman culture going into other places, they acknowledged that
these people were willing to share a village to raise

(13:16):
a child. Mentality came out of an abundance mentality Why
because there was an abundance of resources in these areas
where melanated folks lived, and so here they are willing
to share. And we're still coming with that whole. Wait,
if you have it, we don't, we need that, we're
going to take it. And if I'm going to build

(13:37):
a system that says my less melanated skin makes me
better than you, superior than you, smarter than you, all
of these different things, that's a lie. And now I
have to build a system around that lie. And so
all of my system approaches from how do I do education,

(13:57):
how do I do controlling food? How do I do media?
All of the messaging has to be shaped in this
lying way because I really can't tell you, Tony, come here,
I'm gonna screw you over. I'm going to harm you
in every which way I can so that I can

(14:19):
win this race we're in. And you go, yeah, that
sounds great. No, I have to lie to you, to
your children, to your children's children. I have to lie
to my children, my children's children to keep the lie going.
And this becomes a culture, and then we get to
justifying it. Well, it works for us. Look at all

(14:40):
the things that we've gotten from it. So we're in
this competitive nature. That's the nature of the world, This, that,
and the other. Sure it is, and it's not. We
could have built systems around love, around sharing, around caring
for one another, around supporting one another. We could have
still gotten those resources. So I really want us to
go back as less melanated folks, give ourselves a hug

(15:04):
and say we're worthy of this without all of this
manipulation that we created in our systems.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
So so first question, does your camera self focus?

Speaker 6 (15:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Okay, because I'm.

Speaker 6 (15:18):
Seeing I'm sorry about that.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
It's curious.

Speaker 5 (15:20):
I mean, it's not bad, but it's it's someone distracting
a little bit if you're trying to figure out why
you're doing that. But I figured that it was one
of those fancy high tech ones.

Speaker 6 (15:30):
Yeah, the camera of the of the computer is very blurry,
and so I got this one, which is great as
long as I don't move, which.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
It's on you. You're doing that.

Speaker 5 (15:44):
Okay, So uh, that's that's a fascinating take. But question
I'd like to ask questions If that's true, it's all
about a race. So where does economics come into this philosophy?

(16:06):
If you say it's primarily based on you got it,
I want it kind of thing?

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Is a RaSE quote unquote.

Speaker 6 (16:19):
So economics is a social system too, right, It's part
of our social systems. It's an exchange. How do we
exchange energy? How do we use a medium for exchange,
which the medium for exchange is exchanging energy, We call
it money. We're the only currency, huh currency currency? Okay,

(16:45):
So that means that it should be exchanging, right, because
it should be flowing current, seas should be flowing. So
the moment you howard the currency, you're disrupting the currency,
the current of it. Right, So you're disrupting the change,
I mean, the exchange. Yet we're the only animal that

(17:08):
uses a medium for exchange to live our lives, to
get the food, to get the resources to get.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Whose we humans, humans in general.

Speaker 6 (17:20):
Yeah, okay, there's no other animal that are going, yeah,
bring me certain number of leaves and you can have
my tomatoes. Ok that I'm guarding. Right, We're the only
ones that decided to use this medium of exchange to
get what we needed. So in this we could shape

(17:43):
our society to utilize land much differently than we do now.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Right.

Speaker 6 (17:50):
We could use these because I live in the Midwest,
so you drive outside of the city streets immediately or
surrounded by corn, and soy use that for broccoli and
apples and all the things that our body needs. We
don't have to just manufacture all this corn and soy
and then turn that into feed for animals and then

(18:12):
eat the animals, and we could actually just live off
of the earth the way it already worked. We have
done so much manipulation to the earth. And that's part
of the other parts of healing White Culture that I'm
about is understanding that Europeans, because of this scarcity mentality,

(18:33):
decided that we needed to make the earth work for
us instead of in other cultures where they're much more
connected to the earth. Because that's what happens when we
don't get all the resources that we need. And I'm
really sorry about my I don't know why it's acting
up so much today.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
But I mean it's not bad. I mean, yeah, this
is good.

Speaker 6 (18:54):
It's it's like breathing though, so. But in Europeans culture,
we try to manipulate to make the earth work for us,
which means we have a disconnected relationship with the earth
right the the rest of the earth, I mean, the

(19:17):
rest of other cultures. Indigenous and Aboriginal cultures historically have
a much more connected value to the earth. We're just
going to flow with it. We want to know how
the earth works too. On the other hand, we have
wanted to know how the earth works so that we
can manipulate the life cells, whether it's creating atom bombs
or creating GMO cells or all of these different things.

(19:40):
And then we became attached to the idea that having
money meant you can control these resources and how they're
distributed and all of that. When there's enough for everybody
to live a comfortable, enjoyable life, we don't have to
be participating this and the results. I mean, the answer

(20:01):
is simple. Untangling all of this that we've been through
for these hundreds of years is very difficult because we're
coming from places of pain, which leads to fear, and
you can drive somebody with fear tactics all day long.
And so that's where I think we need to really
start to untangle understand how deceived we have been and

(20:25):
we are based on the systems that are created, and
this is part of the economic structure, is to try
to control these resources. And the more that we don't
understand and learn about our truth about ourselves and how
life works, the more controllable we are.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
I do hear some truth in that, but his.

Speaker 5 (20:51):
His where I think are to ibeologies intersect a parallel
to a degree or diverse in many cases, because correct

(21:11):
me if I'm wrong. You see, everything started in as
a race, where when I did my research, I believe
everything man does is based on economics mm hmmm, based
on the currency that the de free is change of value.

(21:32):
And I believe based on my research. When you look
at Europe, the Middle Ages coming out of the so
called Dark Ages through.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
The Black Plague, it was a question of resources.

Speaker 5 (21:48):
Even the story of them, Johnny in to the so
called New World, it was due to a lack of
resources in Europe. So they had been traveling the world
more before that, and they knew that people were on
the other side of the waters, eliminated people, and they

(22:13):
did free exchange or bothering or what they want to
call it. So it's not like they didn't know, quote unquote,
were we were there or there were other people on
the other.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
Side of the oceans that look different. M so.

Speaker 5 (22:28):
But it came a point where again they saw where
they were limited the resources and they had to go
elsewhere to expand the economics come in. As you mentioned that,
I don't see we mean and millenated people of a
culture are very generous, giving.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Wealthy culture.

Speaker 5 (22:52):
By all historical accounts, the indigenous people of Africa, America,
Australia were far advanced, wanting water toilests, agriculture, and we're

(23:13):
tripping over gold.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
M hm.

Speaker 5 (23:15):
So when they came and saw this bounty, they said,
I want that, right, But again it was economics because
the economic aspect comes in.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
I need to feed my people, right. So so with
that they said, to people who who are there now
they have to go, how can I make them?

Speaker 5 (23:45):
I guess, how can I make mind going after them
to destroy them patiable?

Speaker 3 (23:52):
I have to make make it seem or make.

Speaker 5 (23:55):
It so there there is that distance is worse than
the plague. So they are to conjure up a notion.
Now these people are less human, but it's driven by economics,
not necessarily a race.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
What's your point on my take so far?

Speaker 6 (24:18):
I'm in full agreement with you, and that's I think
we're we have mutual meaning with different terminology, Okay, Right,
So that's why I start off with scarcity and then
I tell you we built our economic system based on
a scarcity mentality instead of knowing even though we traveled
the world, we knew we had to go out, but

(24:39):
the culture that these settlers left from had a scarcity
of mentality. We had the black plague because we're not
getting all of our resources when we conquered the world,
and we try and make ourselves look bad and big
and bad and strong and all of that. And we
got the better guns and the bet the weapons, and

(25:00):
we're just stronger, and it's you know, the strongest survived. No,
we brought disease that other places didn't have, and so
we had sickness, a disconnected connection from the earth, and
a and a scarcity mentality. And that's what we built
our economic systems based on. And then we used race, right,

(25:23):
this competition of our economic systems to develop race. So
I'm in agreement with you one hundred percent.

Speaker 5 (25:30):
I guess it's your word race because I don't really
see us in running competitions because running people are in
competition with with with with non menning and people. We
never cared about you, right level, So it was it's
not a race to us.

Speaker 6 (25:49):
I agree that.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
I guess it's that off.

Speaker 6 (25:53):
There's an economic professor and scholar, I should say that
was uh Claude Anderson, doctor Claude Anderson. Okay, well this
is where I got my definition. It was a race
of colonizers. It was France against.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
It wasn't it was our race.

Speaker 6 (26:15):
Okay, okay, we're the ones that created.

Speaker 5 (26:17):
Okay, I mean, I mean, I mean gentlemen, when when
somebody said, raised all the petitions, Pence are right and
in the competition.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, we're not in a competition because we were right,
you know, I mean, you mess with me, right?

Speaker 6 (26:34):
This is exactly that's the point that race, no race,
I mean, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
It just didn't like not.

Speaker 5 (26:41):
Having what we had and we couldn't next to come
to an accord where we could share. But again they
saw the value anyway that they could. It's changed for
other girls amongst themselves. So well, I guess the the
Queen of Portugal told the man called christical numbers, he

(27:03):
I want.

Speaker 6 (27:03):
More of that.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
I mean you brought all. I want more of that act.
What can we do whereas people they don't give it up? Freedom?
I guess we got more to people. Yeah, but it
wasn't a race, it was.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
It was it was a conquering people based economics, the
value and the currency that the saw that that new
man could offer them, but.

Speaker 6 (27:26):
We use that scarcity technique. Whether it was Germany against
the Jews, I mean Europe, you know, those Europeans against
the Jews. It was to create a scarcity amongst themselves. Right,
Whether when we come into other cultures where melanated folks
are already there, we create an idea of their scarcity.

(27:49):
We're controlling, we're trying to control these resources. So now
we make it look like there's a scarcity amongst those, right,
And that's what's happening in the inner cities here in
the United States. We've left when black folks moved in
and we created a scarcity. Look to this whole thing,
and it's a in a competition amongst black culture that

(28:12):
is unnatural to the indigenous and and Uh and Aboriginal
ways of the culture that already existed here before we
shield up.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
I can see. But let me ask this, So what
came first the.

Speaker 5 (28:31):
The scarcity wanted to develop scarcity amongst the aboriginal people
or the people of color, or the economic greed that
propelled them to create this this environment of scarcity.

Speaker 6 (28:54):
Right, So I would say it's the scarcity of where
we came from, developed the Econo agreed, which developed the
idea that we can weaponize scarcity amongst others. Right, So,
because we were in scarcity, So when somebody comes out
of a poor environment.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Okay, let's let's up there now.

Speaker 5 (29:15):
I understand it might have started that way in the beginning, okay,
but when they conquered and when you come up into
the sixties or the thirties.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
In this country.

Speaker 5 (29:28):
I can't he speak for Europe or Australia or Africa,
but in this country, the scarcity was gone, right okay.

Speaker 6 (29:38):
And from mind, I wasn't shared amongst the people here.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Though, okay.

Speaker 5 (29:44):
Which came first the chicken on the egg? So the
scarcity was gone, So now we have a community. By
all accounts, the first slave owner was a millenated person
mm hm, who created who saw a need to have

(30:05):
slaves instead of um servants or what's the word not
slave but uh in the servants?

Speaker 6 (30:18):
Right?

Speaker 5 (30:19):
This is service came came before stags, even though there's
always been perers of slavery, conquering people conquering other people
having staves for a period.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Of time that goes back to bibical times, correct, So.

Speaker 5 (30:33):
There is no necessary scheduty. There other than one nation
conquering another nation. And I'm gonna take your goods, but
I want you to work your land to help me
take your goods from your man and put bring to
my land having controlled it. So in today's time thirty forties,
fifty sixty, seventies, eighties, nineties, even now, there's no longer

(30:54):
scarcety in the in the European mind because they dominate,
as you say, the world, even though a data minority, right, So.

Speaker 6 (31:04):
Well, I would get I would push back on that.
I would still say that we hold on to that,
even though we now control these resources, there's no scarcity
amongst us, we still hold on to that. We can't
let go of our resources. We're holding onto our ways,
we're protecting our systems, we're justifying ourselves, we're denying everything

(31:26):
that you're saying, is we're doing is wrong because there
is a scarcity of resources on the planet and if
we don't end up in control of it, you will.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
But is that not economically driven?

Speaker 4 (31:39):
Right?

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Okay?

Speaker 6 (31:40):
And the economic approach is from a scarcity mentality, where
if the economic approach was that there was an abundance
of these resources, our approach is that there's more than
enough for all of us. So let's see how we
can make sure that we're all taken care of. And
now let's build the systems around sharing and supporting one another,

(32:01):
and let's go be the best version of ourselves we
can be. But in a in a greedy, protective, scarcity mentality,
I now have to try and keep this from myself.
We are constantly thinking anybody else out there is trying it.
Why did that person do something nice to me? Hmm
they they must be off wanting something for me, right,

(32:24):
Like we're we're so protective of what we have as
individualistic because zero sum game leads to all of those things,
versus seeing a society we have more than enough, why
can't we just share?

Speaker 5 (32:39):
So from that point of view, scarcity drove the Caucasian
to decimate the Black family mm hm. In nineteen sixties
did not economics.

Speaker 6 (32:57):
Right or just or just power. It was a scarcity
economic system, so let's let's call it economics. I'm saying
there's two types of economic systems approaches. One is from
a building an economic structure from a or systems from
a scarcity approach, and one from building it from an

(33:18):
abundance approach, and we use a scarcity approach to our
economic system.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Okay, that's that's that's interesting. I mean I don't, I don't.
I don't see that because when you look at the whole.

Speaker 5 (33:37):
Quote unquote slavery American slavery experience, there was nothing but
boot power based on economics because they had to have
somebody to till the fields.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
That can do with scarcity. In my mind, they had
to do with strictly, this.

Speaker 5 (33:58):
Is my cash crop, your opinions, lack of better words,
too weak to do this hard manual labor because it
costs more to have them.

Speaker 6 (34:13):
Anyway.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
So we got the the millenaiy people who are strong
that they endure.

Speaker 5 (34:24):
So that's the ones that we are going to use
to grow the fields for my economic benefit. Not anything
to do with my schedulte that my grandfolks way back
when had. Because I'm here, I'm good, I see, because
we couldn't grow tobacco necessary in Europe. So now we

(34:46):
could grow all these these cats crops, but I need
somebody to grow them. So economically, I need to have
these individuals man in my machine.

Speaker 6 (34:58):
So I'm going to challenge you on this. Right when
you build a house. You need an architect, You need
a foundation layer, right, you need your civil engineers, you
need the infrastructure of the house. You need then the

(35:20):
walls and all of the plumbing and all of those
things to work. You don't build with the same materials, right,
So once you've laid the foundation, now your infrastructure is
made out of steel. The foundation was made out of concrete,
and your walls are going to be made out of
wood and then drywall, and then you're going to design it.

(35:42):
So at different stages of this scarcity economic systems, we
don't have to perform the same That's why I laugh
when we say, oh, it's better now than it was
for black folks back then. If we haven't healed it,
then yes, it might not be. It's like inflation. It
might not be growing at the same rate of harm.

(36:06):
It's still growing harm that we have not healed and
gone back and said, from this competitive economic structure that
we have. When we do harm in this society, somebody
gets made whole. We made the Jews whole for those
that suffered through the Holocaust. We even went into another

(36:28):
area of the world and gave them land, or gave
us land. If I need to be connected to that.
We've done all of these things to heal because we
know we're in competition, and we used folks, manipulated, harmed,
did all kinds of things to use these bodies in
an unhumane way when we could have just shared all

(36:50):
these resources to try and control these things, but we
kept this scarcity mentality. So we're still building the building
of scarcity economics. We're just doing it differently now at
each stage. Once we've gotten more, if I've already got
the resources, my job is no longer to get them

(37:10):
from you. It's to maintain them for myself. So now
I'm operating differently with that approach. Right, I'm still using
the scarcity mentality. There is only a limited amount of
resources on the planet. That is why X supply must
meet demand in how we price our things, because we

(37:30):
have a scarcity mentality. There is a limited amount of resources,
yet we are using our land for the worst possible ways,
and we all have enough to eat. If we wanted
to share those that well, then that.

Speaker 5 (37:44):
Will put all millenated, all nonmllenated people, people who, for
lack of a better description, are the eco fanatics, and
true the eco fanatics that I've seen all been non.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Menenated people, that they're very millennated people.

Speaker 5 (38:04):
One of my hugging trees and trying to get you know,
you let to let the vehicles or want to live
off of windmals and sodo panels.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
We ain't doing that, you know.

Speaker 6 (38:17):
So, But indeed I would I would disagree with you
because I've experienced a culture that is doing that, led
by African Americans that left here and went back to Israel,
and they're not.

Speaker 5 (38:32):
Well, okay, well that that's what I'm talking about. I'm
I'm going to speak for here in this country.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Right.

Speaker 5 (38:37):
Maybe, of course, the thought could be gathered by any
individual if they're so inclined to believe whatever I believe.

Speaker 6 (38:47):
So that's where you're making the assumption to also excuse
me for laughing that these tree hugging, electric car driving
folks are all so right in the way that they're
trying to heal the Oh no, no, no, no, no
no no. I think the coas cocopuffs. Okay, So here's

(39:11):
here's my struggle, and here's why I wrote my book.
Black Folks got tired of saying, Okay, I'm trying to
teach you about race and you don't get it right
and racism, so go fix yourself. So then they became
this movement of white anti racism groups, and I joined them.
I was actually given an order by my son's mother,

(39:33):
who's a black woman, and he you know, I met
him at when he was six years old. I met
the family and I became No, this is uh my
son I met in he was born in four I
met him in two thousand and nine, twenty ten or
twenty ten.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
At that point, you joined anti race group.

Speaker 6 (39:56):
No, I had already been a part of Yeah so
around so wait so yes exactly. So she said, it's
great that you love us the way you do. It's
great that you know what you know. But if you
really want to fix us, I mean, help us, go
fix your people.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Right.

Speaker 6 (40:12):
So I heard about this group called White People for
Black Lives. It was out in Los Angeles, and generally
I love them for what they're trying to accomplish. Most
of them though, and this is why I had to
write the book, was it's the blind leading the blind.

(40:33):
You don't know how much we've been deceived in our
own understanding of our own history and our own how
we developed. Because when we learn history, we don't learn
the why, we learn the what. So when we say
we need to learn history so we don't repeat ourselves,
then we need to learn why we made those decisions
so we can make a different approach to that. But

(40:56):
if we just learn history as we won this war,
we won that war, we did this, we don't learn
the truth about ourselves. And so now you have the
blind leading the blind. And yes, like Tom Steyer, I
don't know if you know who that is, but he's
he's a billionaire hedge fund manager and he ran for

(41:17):
president when against Biden in the first time, and when
Biden won, when all those Democrats in Washington. No, he's
from he's from Oakland or you know, not Oakland, but
northern California. And he's a billionaire and he was all
about climate change and he also talked about need to
liberate huh liberal. Yeah, right, So Biden in the group

(41:43):
passed a major bill about you know, dedicated towards helping
with climate change. And the first thing he says is,
as this liberal, we now we can compete for you know,
making the world great again. Now we can not great
again in that sense, but now we can compete towards

(42:03):
healing the climate. Now we can be the leaders in this.
Those are two white cultural economics approaches. So you're gonna
use the same mind to go and make this change
that you want. That's when I'm I'm agreeing with you.
Like I'm a tree hugger. I'm a tree hugger from

(42:25):
the sense of if you walk out into the grass
with your bare feet like most like many black grandmothers
used to tell that kids back in the day, and
you touch the trees, there is an exchange of positive
energy that exists because we live off of each other. Right,
we breathe air that they out that they that trees

(42:49):
breathe in. There is a life cycle that goes with that.
So from a tree hugging standpoint, there's a truth to that.
So with the tonics and moving from this gas, we
shouldn't be leading that we don't know what the heck
we're talking about. There's much better sources of energy.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
So so going on the green agenda and looking at
how Europe is rusn't headlong into this MH.

Speaker 5 (43:19):
But the less so called lesser developed countries, if you
wan't call it China lesser developed country in some cases
they are in India, Russia, people in the sunthern hemisphere.
H they say, y'all, y'all, go ahead, we ain't doing

(43:43):
any of that.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
We're gonna keep drilling for all.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
We're gonna keep building nuclear plants because we're trying to
catch it with y'all because we want the lifestyle and
possibility that y'all got through.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
That's what how or so called dirty energy. So even
with that, is that not economically driven?

Speaker 5 (44:10):
Because if there wasn't any if there wasn't any money
in that industry, if there wasn't any if if alcohol
or couldn't become a motile billing there pushing green energy,
would he be pushing green energy?

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Right?

Speaker 6 (44:27):
So of course there's an economic and that's if we
don't change our economic approach, then we're going to keep
doing the same things over and over again and expect
different results.

Speaker 5 (44:39):
So again my question is what came first the economic
drive on what you call the race.

Speaker 6 (44:48):
To the economic drive led to the race.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
That's that's my main point in every short I think.

Speaker 6 (44:55):
Everything that I'm not using the same terminology as you,
but I do. That's why the first thing I said
before I get into the race is scarcity led us
to this economics of competition? And in ECON, first thing
we learn is there is a scarcity of resources. This
is the first line of and I took too many

(45:16):
ECON classes, right, But the first line, first day is
there is a scarcity of resources on the planet, and
therefore we must we are in competition to control those resources. Okay,
the earth already works.

Speaker 5 (45:36):
Let's look at this way. I'm curious. I'm fascinated by
your take on this. So when the Burgh's family woke
up and they recognize.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Co press, horror turns into diamonds. Mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (46:00):
But there's no market for diamonds and diamants now are plentiful.
Did they seek to offer this plentiful commodity to the
people as is or did they try to restrict that
commodity to increase the value, to increase the scarcity. But

(46:22):
first it was driven by economics, not scarcity, right.

Speaker 6 (46:27):
But so things are sarc cyclical though, because we had
this approach of scared. We had we come from an
area where we diamonds weren't readily available to us. We
had to go into these other places. So it's it's
the same thing as when you have people that have

(46:50):
been denied all of these resources. And then you see
fancy cars and you see this going and now I
want that, right, so now I want those? Have you
ever and I used this uh prestige right, we create
this idea of prestige, right.

Speaker 5 (47:08):
Because because diamonds as as as as when it was,
it wasn't anything.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
But but but they had to make it worth prestige
see value.

Speaker 5 (47:21):
But but but but now they created this market that
they had to reduce the amount that's available to the public.
Developed scarcity, but first they had to see economic value
in it first before creating scarcity. Now it's more valuable

(47:42):
because it's more scarce. So when you look at opportunities
to me, the the green energy movement creates more scarcity
that therefore more valuable. It don't it don't make the
earth any better because when you look at how how
batteries for you that the vehicles are created, you got

(48:07):
to destroy a lot of.

Speaker 6 (48:08):
The earth exactly exactly, So we have the wrong folks
leading the way. So that's first and foremost our approach
and our need for oil and all of these other
things is also from the wrong folks leading the way.
So here's here's my take on a lot of our

(48:30):
political structure now and struggles now we fought. It's we
only know the what, we don't understand the why, and
we don't want to as less melanated folks, it's very
difficult to want to know why we behave and culturally
as a whole this way because otherwise we just spend

(48:54):
our time justifying it, denying it, and using our position
in which we're in right now now to position ourselves.
And that's how we spend our day, that's how we
lead our thoughts. We're not into a world of sharing.
So the idea that I would say, the same techniques
here you were talking about with diamonds, we're using for

(49:16):
nuclear power and to and for ga I mean, you know,
oil and all of those things. We created a world
where that was needed, the greatest.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Uh source of But with that, if there was not
an economic return, we.

Speaker 5 (49:34):
We we decided what was The Europeans wouldn't be added
again to me everything to them by economics.

Speaker 6 (49:41):
But listen, we decided what was economically valuable by making
diamonds valuable, by making oil valuable, because we could make
all of these machines run by oil run by steam,
run by water, run by all of these other things.
We could use the systems that were already in place
in higher advanced technologies that were in place when we

(50:05):
came to these lands, or was there any money in it?
Because we didn't write, So we had to create an
economic structure that said this money is more valuable and
this is how we want it used. And partially I
cannot let you know how great you are, Tony if
I want to use you to control so that I

(50:28):
stay and maintain higher rank in this competition.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
That's based on an economic drive.

Speaker 6 (50:34):
To me more sure, all of what we're talking about.

Speaker 5 (50:36):
Is not anything to do with scarcity. Had to do
agreed and economics and.

Speaker 6 (50:41):
It, but it comes from a scarcity approach, is all
I'm saying. I'm just I'm just taking one step back
from what you're saying, and I'm agreeing with you one
hundred percent.

Speaker 5 (50:51):
That's actually I'm fascinated by because I never heard that before,
so it was interesting.

Speaker 6 (50:56):
So one more questions, Yes, sir, you ready for my
spiel on it?

Speaker 3 (51:10):
I don't know, but I'm curious to heal hear it.
I'm'm ready for I'm curious to hear it.

Speaker 6 (51:16):
Okay, So this is the beginning of where we start
to learn about our own ability for humanity.

Speaker 5 (51:26):
Again, this makes clear you're Jewish, uh huh and Jews
Jews as a nation, we see reparations.

Speaker 6 (51:36):
Yeah, those who you know, and that we we love
to redefine, to really clearly define how we heal things.
Those whose family were harmed in the Holocaust.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Not everybody, but you can say my family was dated.

Speaker 6 (51:55):
Right. Part of the reparations that we don't really like
to discuss is that Jews and so the Jewish, European
or Christian or whatever wars is white on white crime. Like,
let's put it what it would, let's make it what
it is.

Speaker 5 (52:13):
So what about the Jews that come from Ethiopia count
or did they count in any of this?

Speaker 6 (52:19):
Yeah? So, but where did we take these European Jews
and say, you know, you need to go down here
and be a part of this area where your less
melanated skin really doesn't survive very well in Northeast Africa,
but we call it the Middle East, so we can't

(52:40):
identify it as African. Okay, let's go down there and
work together to maintain our position in this economic area
in this area so we can have some economic control
over this region as well. The idea that so Jews

(53:01):
are European because there is no sound jah in Hebrew.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
So I like you just JD, I like you now,
I'm liking you. Now, I'm liking you.

Speaker 6 (53:15):
There is no sound of just. So that's obvious. We've
created the ja, the Greco Roman culture, right. That part
just is mind boggling to me that we can't even
start from there.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
That's a whole hour. Yeah, okay for sure.

Speaker 6 (53:36):
Okay, So the Hebrew speaking folks that were in that
Northeast African region from Ethiopian up to what we call
Israel now, because Israel was a concept until we made
it a state. It was it was the following of
a of a biblical you know person that we gave

(53:57):
the name of Israel because Israel Israel has he has
a meaning to it is states, right, and so all
of these things that have come this is a European
These are European constructs and and other social systems that
go into economics.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
Says are you referring to genuinely come out in regards
to the so called black race.

Speaker 6 (54:26):
So, first and foremost, the the the harm the target
I call it like the target of harm. The bullseye
has been anti blackness. Right, so I'm saying we have
never addressed that, and that is what we need to heal.
And and even though we can say, oh, it's different

(54:47):
now than it was back then, and it's too late,
and we try and get repairing the harm. So right,
even though we did the harm so wrong, it didn't
matter white folks mostly but even in.

Speaker 5 (55:02):
Mostly so said it wasn't one hundred percent white people
who own slaves?

Speaker 3 (55:05):
Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 6 (55:08):
No? Yeah, well, and who owned them? Yes, I'm not
the dividing it absolutely because yes, we've if people participate
in the culture and assimilate to the culture. It was
a cultural thing still, but yes it was but anti blackness.

(55:28):
And of course, if you're willing to harm your own
people that look like you, melanated skin level as you,
then you're welcome to come on in, you know, come
on in, you can sit at the table.

Speaker 5 (55:39):
But but then, but did they do that because of
sketchy or did they do that because it was it
was an economic driven economy.

Speaker 6 (55:47):
An economic driven economy based on a scarcity approach. I'm
not gonna I'm not gonna.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Okay, okay, I appreciate that about your appreciate that, okay.

Speaker 6 (56:02):
And so let's say you're you know, you witness me.
I'm walking across the street. I'm in my in my
you know, crosswalk, and I got the walk signal. I'm
doing right. But here comes Joe Blow and he's got
his big old pickup truck and he runs me over purposely,

(56:23):
just I can't stand this, JD. And he runs me over. Now,
I got some dislocated ligaments in my knee, my back
is you know, lumbar is broken, and my head trauma
and all of these different things. I would love for
you to call the system nine to one one and

(56:45):
say JD needs some help. But you didn't do it,
so you could take that approach, Hey, I didn't do that.
I don't need to heal that person. I didn't, right,
but I'm in this street, and other people that witnessed
it could take the same approach, Hey, I didn't do it.
But then there might be you might be one of

(57:07):
the few that says, you know what, I should call
the police. I mean I should call nine one one.
So I called nine one one, and the system, the
ambulance says I didn't do it, not me, or they
could come and help me heal and then take me
to the doctors. And the doctors again could say I

(57:28):
didn't do it, or they could say, Lord knows, this
man needs to have surgery. So now we have to
even harm him more. We have to so not that
we have to harm more, but we have to cause
more pain because to get to the problem, it's going
to take some emotional unraveling of our how did we
get here in the first place, and what does healing

(57:48):
look like? And how do we change our approach?

Speaker 5 (57:51):
So in inspirations and that analoge. So are we looking
at JB JD get injured and now we're trying to
give him conversation or reparations for its injury. Or has
JD passed on for ten generations about what happened the

(58:22):
ten generations ago?

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Who are we talking about? Because it's different if real
time get me out to me, just got hit me.

Speaker 7 (58:31):
We're talking about JD. We're talking about generations ago. We're
talking about JD. JD is black culture period, right, So
my cells recreate themselves in my while I'm alive, I'm
still getting new cells. So this doesn't stop right if
there's trauma that's happened to me. But let's say the

(58:54):
system says I didn't do it, I'm not helping, doesn't
make me. Eventually, I'm laying in the middle of the street.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Well are you there?

Speaker 4 (59:04):
Now?

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Are we talking about where you laid ten generations ago?
Because it's different. Is something just happen.

Speaker 6 (59:11):
Let's get there. Let's get there for a second. Let's
get there for a second. I'm laying in the middle
of the street. Okay, so that street is needed to
continue our systems. We need to get passed. So now
we're going, hey, man, get out of the way. But

(59:32):
my my injuries haven't been healed. So somebody may come
along and say, well, let me help move you out
of the way. But they're not a doctor. They don't
know the trauma that and so when they start to
move me, now I'm also getting re injured because now
or I have to try and compensate for my own injuries.
And often when we when we don't heal our injuries,

(59:57):
we're over compensating. I have a bad knee. I'm a
walk stronger on this knee. Now the rest of my
body is starting to get out of place because I'm
over here. So you're talking about culturally having to operate
in this system, getting out of people's way, being told
pick yourselves up by your bootstraps. And I can't even

(01:00:17):
reach my dag on boots right now because I'm so
injured and we've never healed these things.

Speaker 5 (01:00:23):
I guess what will people have an issue with? It
was just talking so called reparations. We're trying to We're
trying to make the driver with your analogy, who ran
JD over.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Ten generations ago, his family paid for what he did
to you.

Speaker 6 (01:00:53):
No, I'm saying we need any generations to go that. Now.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
We we gotta get.

Speaker 5 (01:01:03):
Uh medical examiner to perform an optopsy on a corpse
that embari for ten generations to one.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
To rebuild what happened.

Speaker 5 (01:01:18):
To j D, to see and can find out who
who did this to JD to go get the right
of perussion, who did that injury to JD or their family.

Speaker 6 (01:01:31):
No, you don't have to do that. You don't have to, okay,
because now JD is a father of children lead and
he's stuck in the street because he can't physically get
himself up. And now it's impacting the rest of the
life around him. It's impacting his role in the community.
He getting able to open up his business, the hardware

(01:01:52):
store wasn't able to open up all of these things.
We can't keep things isolated. That's that individualistic mentality, say culture,
we are all connected to one another.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
So we have we also had to look at.

Speaker 6 (01:02:05):
We have caused generational harm because the rest of the
world is also still going and they get to continue
to gather more resources and continue to gather more and
JD's family is now set behind. Rather than we have
a plate, we have systems in place, and if we
had love in our systems, we would you would not

(01:02:27):
have to overcompensate. We punish those with less but not
having as much. In this system, we charge you more.
You have to go through more to get your resources,
all of these different things. We have set up a
system that makes it more challenging. So that's not a
loving system that we we can define it as tough love.
But that's because we have the power to define what in.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
What country are millionni people prospering most?

Speaker 5 (01:02:59):
So let me ask you this, no no no, no,
no no no no no hold on answers answer that
question first, then do you think, as as asked your question.

Speaker 6 (01:03:07):
I don't know where they prospering the most. I don't
know because my definition of prospering is might be different.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
I'm not just okay, well, well, well wealth, right.

Speaker 6 (01:03:19):
But my definition of wealth is.

Speaker 5 (01:03:23):
Still has wealth, not not not necessarily Jesse's definition of wealth,
but general population. If people want to say, okay, here, okay,
here in this country, there are more black millionnaires in
the world. They are more black millionaires anywhere in the world.

(01:03:46):
The Black American community three point seven seven trillion after taxes.
Hispanics are now number one.

Speaker 6 (01:04:01):
Mm hm.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
They may force something. So is that not reparations.

Speaker 6 (01:04:09):
No, that's not reparations. That's that's showing us that the
greatest people have suffered the most and still are able
to thrive. Right, So, when we want to talk about
superiority versus inferiority, then we are showing ourselves to be
that we have harmed people for so long, blown up towns,

(01:04:30):
and every time you're going to so you still economically
don't own and control banking systems, don't enough to really
have your own structures, don't own and control education systems.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
Media.

Speaker 5 (01:04:45):
Huh, have blacks ever controlled the education system of the
community or banks.

Speaker 6 (01:04:53):
More so, I would say different periods of times, and
in Africa and other nations before that, not here, before
white folks showed up and during certain segregation times.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
Yes, certain education times like what what what? What said?

Speaker 6 (01:05:09):
Education times are your frone to so even in like
Jim Crow and whatnot? When when we wanted to keep
So this is what I'm saying, reparations isn't just about
uh slavery. Since then, we've we've changed that bill. Going
back to the building of harm, we went from laying

(01:05:29):
the concrete to building the infrastructures. We're doing different things,
but we're still trying to control the resources and exclude
black folks from them and even till they thrive. Even
though they thrive, all of a sudden, now you're thriving
becomes a threat to my success. This is where we

(01:05:50):
are right now. We're so worried about everybody taking our
jobs or taking this or taking that. Why Because everybody
else's success is a threat to our success. That is
a scarcity competitive mentality of which we're in this rat
race we call race.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
I guess, I guess it is that work because again,
I go through the payments.

Speaker 5 (01:06:12):
That everything is based on economics, right, not sccualty, as
you agreed, making making cold valuable, making dark stuff that
come up to the ground valuable right where every reaching
the people were tripping over oil, tipping over gold, didn't care,

(01:06:35):
but use it in the barter system. So before we
were doing notches on a stick. Then we start using
cattle to change goods. And then we came up and
started doing gold. And then we said, well we can't
be walking around with big heavy badge of.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
Gold less put let's use the dollar of paper dollars
changed the same value. But still it's to.

Speaker 5 (01:07:05):
Drive economic system. But one more point as you close,
when you mentioned about the cancel culture, Yeah, does that
fit into or into ways?

Speaker 6 (01:07:24):
Of course, it's a white it's a white cultural thing.
We're either going to shoot you or deny you, or
cancel you if you disagree with us on both sides
of it. It's it's a very reactive part of our
culture because we're in a position. We're in a position
to be able to define our lives much greater, so easier.

(01:07:47):
I can use my position to decide to cancel what
you're your disagreement with me. We can't continue a conversation
because can continuing a conversation would have to lead us
to our own and our own figuring out how do
we share these things When we can easily and that's

(01:08:09):
easier for us, why not do that? So I want
to just ask you one question. I know it's your interview.
I don't know name one place where Europeans have shown
up and improved the quality of life for those who

(01:08:29):
were already occupying those lands. Improve the quality of life,
not this monetary economic thing, but actually improve the quality
of life. I will tell you no, we are the
sickest people. We have so much health problems. We have
destroyed our soil, destroyed the earth. There's so much problems

(01:08:52):
in our society. And the people that were here but
not benefit.

Speaker 5 (01:08:58):
But that's not what you I mean when you look
at the quality of life, the the prosperity, the the
the American ideal that we were able to export to
the rest of the world, that they benefited from Europe
and and all other cultures benefit from the American experience.

(01:09:22):
That without this American experience they would not been able
to benefit from.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
I'm not saying that the American experiences.

Speaker 6 (01:09:33):
Not the people that were already occupying this land did
not benefit from that. They were living a much more
comfortable life before we got here.

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
Well that's relative, Okay, that's relative.

Speaker 5 (01:09:49):
That's because because I'm not necessarily of course, I'm not
totally disagree with you, because of course when you look
at where their ingenuity and and and their culture was.

Speaker 8 (01:10:00):
But when when you look at everything, we are animals
on a higher level.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
But we still animals when you look at.

Speaker 5 (01:10:18):
The the conqueror and the conqueror, just as you would
in any animal society, the weakest where paris.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
To the strong.

Speaker 5 (01:10:32):
Now you may have an argument on where the fairness
of it, but there's a reason things happen, and I
can't say that. But when I step back and look
at where the possibility from that period has led this
country and led myself, we are better than any other

(01:10:54):
country on the planet when you look at the a
level of wealth, individual wealth, particularly the but people in
this country make the poorest person in South America blush right.

Speaker 6 (01:11:12):
But harm was used. It didn't improve the quality of
life for those people. When we showed up. We didn't
show up and say this is how you can do that.
They we actually used your ability to be ingenuous, And
the only thing we've ever really been ingenuity about is

(01:11:32):
creating this imitation of life and having a patent system
and a ways to control and grab this wealth. But
at the end of the day, the apple tree is
going to feed me, The money isn't going to I
can't eat it. So we've created this whole outside world
that doesn't need to exist for economic purposes so we

(01:11:55):
can control the resources. And we have caused harm every
single place that we have gone to the people that
were already there, never improving their quality of life.

Speaker 5 (01:12:07):
Well, now again one can be detached. Both both both
can be correct.

Speaker 6 (01:12:14):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 5 (01:12:14):
Where we destroyed the the initial people who were here,
but then there they're foult that the children that the
children came after them. I could say, I'm a lot
wealthier than my grandparents.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
I show a lot wealthier.

Speaker 5 (01:12:31):
And a lot more affluent than my grandparents, grandparents grandparents.
So again, yeah, I could say some eggs were broken
back then.

Speaker 6 (01:12:40):
Truth, had had your grandparents not been you don't think
you had they not been harmed, you don't think you
would still be wealthier than them, right, So no, not not.

Speaker 5 (01:12:56):
Not not not again respeculating right, and and we're looking
at what might have been. No, because when you look
at the steps that the Europeans based on the Christian Bible.
First the Christian Bible, because Christian Bible corrected a lot
of errors that man alone, because they're still slavery in Africa,

(01:13:20):
which staying got a Christian Bible. My people in this
slave blacks and dis country were free due to Christian theology.

Speaker 6 (01:13:30):
No, I will will have to talk about that another time.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
Oh no, you can do that, we could happen.

Speaker 5 (01:13:35):
But again, when you look at a constitution, a constitution
was based on the Bible, and there's no other country,
even England, even though they abandoned slavery before us. The
way that we got out of slavery was adherence to
the constitution, which is based on the Bible.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
So that's why I see the connection there.

Speaker 5 (01:13:59):
And when you look at how partisan theology was imposed
as a culture that corrected a lot of things that
were not being corrected because you still got issues in
Europe that you don't have here in regards to how
racist deal with deal with one another. And not saying

(01:14:24):
it's perfect, but I'm saying line, everything, everything up side
by side. America is still the best country on the planet,
even even with its warts.

Speaker 6 (01:14:35):
No, we're only the best because we designed an economic
system that allows us to control resources through harming others.
And it's not necessary.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
I didn't say it is perfect.

Speaker 6 (01:14:47):
It's not necessary. We could share in these resources and
restructure how we use the planet, and and the planet
would take care of us. Life already worked. So I
would say Christians from a European standpoint got it wrong,
and the true Christians are from that of a more
melanated culture in the But there's no money in that, right,

(01:15:13):
But we don't need money to exist, So that whole
created imitation of life is what we're operating in because
money doesn't have to do anything. At some point we're
going to have to ask somebody, how much is it
going to cost me to get you to pass the
salt to me at the dinner table. We don't need

(01:15:34):
money to make all of these things happen. Money doesn't
do anything on its own, but our own our currency
is only as valuable as our ability to shoot and
destroy you because our military is the only thing backing
our currency. So causing harm is what we do best.
Destroying crap is what we do best.

Speaker 5 (01:15:56):
Right, Yeah, that's correct, now, that's that's that's what we do.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
But still, I mean, ain't.

Speaker 6 (01:16:02):
Nothing, there's nothing would say that's right about Now, that's.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
That's a whole no conversation. And I agree with you there.
But when you ask me.

Speaker 5 (01:16:16):
Basically, what country that whites come to that is not
better off than when they so called quote unquote first landed,
I will.

Speaker 3 (01:16:27):
Always look at not not the beginning, but where we
are now.

Speaker 5 (01:16:34):
I can say what they did back there was funked up,
But I can always say also say when you look
at the animal kingdom, where there is another animal introduced
to a space that wasn't there another predator, they will
we have it on those creatures who aren't used to
their presence, and they would eat them up until the

(01:16:58):
people that those creatures there that before them, would developed
a resistance to them, either turn around and defeat them
or coosist with them, even in a less superior position,
which is kind of where we are.

Speaker 6 (01:17:18):
Well. I would say that the most inferior people, the
least the most mutated people from our natural source had
to create a world of competition because upon true meritocracy
where we didn't have this outside element that we created

(01:17:38):
in the economics. In true meritocracy, that's why we don't
want reparations, not because we're afraid black folks are going
to harm us and do to us what we did
to them. We don't want it because in the true meritocracy,
we have not practiced being our best selves. We've just
practiced winning, which you either win by being your best

(01:17:58):
self or you win by harming your opponent. And that's
where we have chosen to operate and stay in. And
so those aren't true Christian values. We just use them
and we create a system that makes it look like
we're truly Christian. We didn't give up slavery because it
was the right thing to do. We gave up slavery

(01:18:19):
because economically there was a shift, and that was how
we decided.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
To do that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
What's what's what's what's that?

Speaker 6 (01:18:25):
What you use economically, I'm not opposed, I'm just from
our scarcity mentality, and then you fall back. I've appreciated
this conversation very.

Speaker 5 (01:18:41):
Much, and I went over for a purpose because I mean,
you're very entertained if that downs.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
And I enjoy your point of view.

Speaker 5 (01:18:54):
And you know I always say we always got to
say the same thing, always got your hundredercent, but to
hear your point of view, and like, okay, I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:19:05):
I didn't heard it before, so now now I heard it.

Speaker 5 (01:19:08):
Okay, it doesn't necessarily changing, but it does add right
to my position. And I may I might go back
and try to get more educated to see where to
just get this really out there philosophy from. And I
hope that people who may not initially agree with my

(01:19:30):
position or your position, what least leader might open to
maybe do the same to get more educated.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
So then you know, I went into another JD. I
heard it before. I'm ready for you now, all right,
appreciate JD.

Speaker 5 (01:19:46):
Appreciate you tell the folks where they could follow you
find the more about you get, get more involvedment maybe
to you.

Speaker 6 (01:19:53):
The name of my book is Race for What. The
name of the website is Race for What. It's f
o R. So go check it out. You can get
all my social media links, you can see blogs that
I've written, you can get you know, purchased the book
and you know, do what you want with it. Read
it the audio book. Yeah, I have an audiobook an

(01:20:16):
ebook and paperback book, and uh yeah, let's let's keep
the conversation going and stop canceling each other. And that's
let's walk across the lines. Because there whether you're a
liberal or a or whether you have a liberal friend
or or a family member or a you know, a

(01:20:37):
conservative friend or family member, if you need one hundred dollars,
at a human level, probably both would give it to
you if they had it. If you need a ride,
need to ride, but.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
I need you Chi though, Jess a good thing.

Speaker 6 (01:21:01):
There's a level of humanity that exists across both and
there's more to it and more nuances to it than
than just being on one side or the other.

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
Appreciate j D.

Speaker 5 (01:21:15):
Look for the following you and definitely reach out to me.
Uh if you if you want, if you want to
run his ball back, we can do that.

Speaker 6 (01:21:22):
We can do that. I would I would love to.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
You.

Speaker 6 (01:21:27):
Okay mhm.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Thanks for listening to today's show, and don't forget to
like and subscribe to this podcast and look for Project
Thirdeye Open on your favorite social media platforms. Check out
our web page at projectthirdiyopen dot com. And that's third
I with the letter I, Project Thirdie