Episode 10 - 2024 End of Year Extravaganza - Punk Vacation: An Unofficial Vinegar Syndrome Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hmm, you are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions
podcast network.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hey y'all, Happy mid December and happy uh successful. Crampis
for those that made it through.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
If you could.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
If you didn't make it through, I guess you're not listening,
but god speed. I am so happy to be doing
this in December and honestly looking back at a whole
year of Vinegar Syndrome in this Year in Review special,
I have a guest on that is waiting for me
to get through this rant to be introduced, but quickly.

(01:16):
If anybody's listening for the first time, I do want
to make sure this is said. You know this is
Punk Vacation. It's an unofficial Vinegar Syndrome podcast. My whole
purpose for doing this is finding the joy in unfettered creativity,
which I think is my best attempt at capturing the
spirit of Vineger Syndrome. I'd like to make this a

(01:37):
podcast dedicated to bringing awareness and context to movies of
any budget, from anywhere and during any time, and that's
one of the main reasons I invited the guest on
today that I did because he's a phenomenal resource to
be able to speak to those categories. Personally, I've been
a subscriber since Black Friday of twenty twenty one, and

(02:00):
through a different podcast, they've interviewed a lot of the
OCN partner labels and just wanted to watch VS continue
to become this industry powerhouse and do it in a
more formal way and really kind of track how high
they can go. So with that being said, this is
now coming out in mid December, and I felt the

(02:22):
best thing to do in this as we're getting in
the holiday season, there's a lot of wrap ups, and
there's nobody I would rather do a review with and
kind of a general discussion about vinegar syndrome than the
man David Online goes by Professor Gascan. David is a encyclopedia.
He's somebody that has seen more movies than you, I

(02:45):
guarantee it, and has a good memory so can actually
talk about him, which is always amazing to me.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
And he's a nice guy. So David, thank you so
much for coming on.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
I thought about it earlier also on Ladderbacks. I am
at WPQX, so I know that doesn't correlate to the
other things, but you know, but if you wanted to
follow along with the thirteen hundred plus movies I've watched
this year. That's a good place to do it.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, that's good. I'll make sure to link letterbox.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
I never really think to do that, but I should
probably just make that standard because we're all on litterbucks.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
Anyways.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Yeah, I'm a teen and twenty three this year.

Speaker 5 (03:24):
That's it keeps going up hotly.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
Moly.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Well, let's talk about that, because this is not your
first year to see over one thousand movies.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
In one year.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
No, last year. So two years ago, after about a
decade of another friend of mine recommending letderbox, I finally
actually got an account, and then I was rating stuff
as I watched it, but even then kind of missing
some stuff, and then didn't quite understand how the logging

(03:54):
process worked. So at the end of my year, I
had two films longed, which was Doctor Jekyll's Dungeon of Death,
which every Vinegar Syndrome fan knows is quite possibly the
worst film ever made, definitely in the running for the
worst Vinegar Syndrome release, their very long shot the worst DFA, Like,

(04:17):
I don't think anyone's debating that.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
There's forty nine vsays and then you kind of go
like three miles down and then you find Doctor Jeckylls
Dungeon of Death.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yeah, which I was happy I got for at least
retail price. There Grandhouse Video the one time I was
able to visit and Knox both oh ye're still open.
But even then, like buying it, I'm like, I know
this is bad, but it's like the completionist then me
needs it, And I am happy to say that in

(04:49):
twenty twenty four I did complete the entire VSA line
and now it's just a matter of keeping up with
them each month or so whenever they get dropped.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
What is what is Savage Harbor going for these days?
Because I remember two years ago I paid fifty for
it and I felt like I was, man, this is guy,
like more than I wanted to pay for a single release.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
But I'm not sure. I also have this tendency of
once I acquire something, I immediately stopped looking. And I
don't see a lot of them for sale. What's weird
is like you do seem to see a lot of
advice academies for sale, but they're always like outrageously overpriced.
It's like three hundred pounds or something. So you're like,

(05:33):
all right. I was able to track down some old
Vinegarston and brails this year, got all the five years
by film sets from one guy who's just I was
kind of waiting for somebody to have a nice little bundle.
I don't quite remember what I paid for him, but
it was something like Elbeth the Banner cop hard box.

(05:57):
I was able to finally grab because I think when
I first got into Vinegar Syndrome, it was like about
to sell out and I was like, I was like, eh,
I don't really like scanners that much. I don't need
Scanner Cup. And then immediately it's sold out, and I
was like, I should have bought the scannercoup box. And
you know, for those who know, Scanner Cup two is
the superior film. One of the rare sequels, which is

(06:21):
in itself a spin off of another sequel, is just
rock solid, one of one of the better gems Vinegar
Syndromes uncovered. Trying to think what other and then about Yeah,
a little over a year ago is when I got
Vice Academy, Savage Harbor, Evil Town and all those, So

(06:43):
those were kind of the last of the grails. I
almost picked up a copy of Frozen, Scream and Executioner
Part two on Blu Ray. But I just couldn't live
with the price tag. You know, it's hard enough to
even find a for sale. But I found somebody who
was telling it and I was like, yeah, what does
he go for because I can't find it on eBay

(07:05):
And they told me. They were like, yeah, like, i'll
sell to you for one seventy and I'm like, I'm good.
But in our discord bond of buying it. So yeah,
like he's got a little deeper pockets than me. So
I'm like, you know what, like you can have it.
I'm glad it's going to somebody in the family.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Well that's a good That's two things you just said
that I want to kind of tap into a little bit.
So One, I met you on the VS discord and
I've been there's a long period where I wasn't active,
but I come back on it recently. And then that's
a it's a wild place, but it's a it's a
fun place for people that love vinegar syndrome because that's
the one I think that's the one consistent theme amongst

(07:43):
everybody who's got extremely like, you know, diverse taste. I guess,
let me just say it that way, is everybody least
loves n syndrome.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
Yeah, I mean obviously some people seem to love it
a lot more than others, and some people are like,
why are you here? It's like, well, talk about movies.
But yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
But the second thing is I kind of wanted to
tap into this a little bit, so we I forgot
to mention this at the outset. But not only are
you watching, you know, twelve hundred films a year, but
you've had a long standing blog that gets very degrees
of attention. But it's it's called My World of Film
and it's a blog spot, right, yes, correct, Yeah, so

(08:25):
we'll make sure to link that. You've been running that
since what two do ten?

Speaker 4 (08:29):
Yeah? About twenty ten? Yeah, I mentioned, I think to you.
Then the impetus. The thing that kind of launched the
blog was watching Julie and Julia, Yeah, which is the
film about Amy Adams starting a food blog looking Julia
Childs recipes. That was like, how hard is it to

(08:50):
make a blog? And then it was like, apparently extremely easy.
That's when I did it. And you know, also on
that time, like some of the like old film forum
type of discussion. Things were kind of dying out, and
like sites were just kind of done yeah, or you know,

(09:11):
turning into ghosts. I was like, all right, I kind
of was part of different film centric online communities and
they were all going away. So I was like, all right,
I'll just shout into the void and hope somebody reads
what I gotta say, which is also kind of there's
something nice about having something of an archive, but also like,

(09:34):
you know, you're getting some kind of vision with it,
as opposed to like posts getting buried and like chats
and whatnot. The biggest project I did this past last
year was updated my top hundred film list, which I
do every decade. So yeah, so the twenty thirteen versions

(09:54):
on there, twenty twenty three versions on there. That was that.
That was an ordeal, and I grossly underestimated how much
work was going to go into it to do it right.
I'm not an arbitrary ranker who's just like, oh, I
feel like posting my top hundred. These are the films
I thought of. It's like, no, this requires a master

(10:18):
list of multiple hundred movies and then watching all of those,
thwarting them into categories, and then breaking all that stuff down.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
But we'll make sure to post that. Actually, it would
be fun for people to see. I guess the most
important question I could think of is where is bet
Pussy on the list?

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, then I refuse to post it.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
Well, well, yeah, I'm sorry. I often don't have Human
Tornado number three on my list.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
That's okay, we can I'll be perfect.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
Yeah, but I had I did think about it, because
you know, I think you're better at sort of merging
action and art and your like own personal rankings, but
I kind of keep them as separate things. And it's
I don't like that I do that. It feels like
elitist and snobby. But I'm also like, how do I

(11:13):
like put Lennard Glenda next to you know, The Seven Seas?
Yeah right, you know, it's like I love them equally,
but they're just very, very different movies.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
But it's probably.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Worth mentioning part of where that elitist snobbery attitude comes
from is you actually are one of the few people
in the in this community that's been to film school.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
Yeah yeah, I mean the film snobbery was there long
before that.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (11:43):
Yeah, It's funny though, because like the online stuff. We
we find like minded minds because I think all of
us it's where the one outlier at our school or
town whatever. Yeah, and you don't think there's necessary others
like you. I was thinking about this the Criterion Channel.

(12:04):
They have their Adventures and movie Going series, which I
usually love watching those, and Patton Oswalt was on his
but the person interviewing him was Alisia Malone, who you know,
great film critic from Australia I believe, and just hearing
her kind of talk to him, but like describing like

(12:26):
these film clubs she was trying to start in high
school and like nobody showing up and just being like, oh,
nobody else is interested in Norson Wells movies. And I'm
just like, my this is my high school. I'm just like, oh,
there's other people like me. They're just in Australia or
you know, they're in the Netherlands or you know, they're
in Wales or something. It's like we're all just scattered about.

(12:49):
But luckily, you know, there's online communities where we're able
to kind of get together and find that oh yeah,
there's other there's other people like this. It's weird about movies, right, no.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
It definitely.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
It's been a huge lifesaver for me. Is when the
COVID hit, because you know, you just you kind of
lost a lot of that physical community. So that was
when I started diving deep into the discord and read
it and all this kind of stuff. That became the
reason I even have a podcast to begin with. But anyways, yeah,
it's yeah, you know, it's funny you're talking about blog
spot pulls up in old memory. I need to go
find this. Back in two thousand and two or or three,

(13:27):
I was. I was pretty active on IMDb writing reviews
for like a year. I don't know which email it was.
I was so proud of myself as a teenager because
I came up with this email address of punk ska
rasta funk at hotmail, and I think it might be
under that I need to go find it. I need
to go find it.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
But I wrote a review of.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Action USA that I want to pull up because I
remember that was when I first thought.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Oh, so you're an old Todd fan. I thin guess
did not introduce you to that?

Speaker 2 (13:57):
No, no, no, no, no, I won't go to there's a
longer version of the story. But let me just say,
I was kind of like I was working not for pay,
but I was working for a video store for free movies.
And they had Blu ray and DVD at the time,
and then actually only DVD at the time, and then
they had vhs as well. They had like probably twenty

(14:19):
thousand vhs. It was this massive video store in Dallas.
And I, because I was getting free movies, I just
started going alphabetically and I never made it past.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
A but I saw a lot of shit.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
But one of them I saw was actually in the USA,
and I was like, this is why I watch alphabetically,
because I don't care, like, you know, you see a
couple of bad stumble on this.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
Yeah, I know. We all have our our formats for
how to pick what to watch. You know. I take
everything in my pile and then sort it by like
I make a list on letterbox, and then I sort
of by lowest rted the highest rated. So theory is
each film gets better as I watch, you know, for

(15:01):
that reason, every month, when my vinegar syndrome delivery comes in,
those typically go to the top of the list because
they're not the highest rated films for the most part.
The you know, let's say for this month in particular,
like Blood Tracks, you know, not the highest score on
the letter back, and watching it, it's like you understand why,

(15:24):
but there's also like I also understand why Vinegar Syndrome
would be interested in this movie and the kind of
oddness and uniqueness of it. And that's the kind of
trash we live for, especially like good or bad. And
I'm not going to say Blood Tracks was good, but
it was a fun watch and it's something that absolutely

(15:45):
would not have been on my radar without Vinegar Syndrome.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah, no, no, I love it. Yeah, I mean that's
that's exactly.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
I've called myself a recovering elitist before, and I think
that's kind of my you know, I'm learning how to
just enjoy movies and just have fun with them, and
that's what And Vinegar Syndrome has been a huge and
seven is probably another one, but the you know, Vinegar
Syndrome has been a huge part of that journey because
like I would have never never seen so many movies,

(16:12):
like even Chinese Torture Chamber Story, which we might talk
about later, Like I don't know when I would have
got to that otherwise, but I'm freaking so glad I
saw it, Like that's opened my eyes to a whole
new genre.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
Exactly. I pulled up my uh, you know, my ranking
of Vinegar syndromen. It's like so many of the top films.
I'm like, yeah, surf too hard rock, zombies, writing wrongs,
psychos and Love the Telephone Book, like Wild Blue Apes,
a Cannibal ISyE, Like not a chance. Would have taken
me forty years to discover these films outside of Vinegar's syndrome.

(16:47):
So I'll stumble on it, right, Yeah, So and I
love every single one of them.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
So that's awesome. Well that's a pretty good segue.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
So you know, we we were doing this kind of
year in review thing, but I think you know what,
we've touched on it already. But I would like to know,
you know, like where does Vinegar syndrome rank for you
in terms of boutiques? Like are you are you tracking
a lot of boutiques closely? Like you know, where where
does it kind of rank for you in terms of
if you look at percentage of movies you watch a year,

(17:16):
you know or something.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
I mean, obviously, being a subscriber, I watch, you know,
everything from the main lines and obviously I stick with
the essays. I kind of pick and choose with the
other sub labels because it's got to be a bit much.
But you know, there the thing with Vinegar Syndrome and

(17:38):
we kind of sort these into different categories as far
as rating a boutique label, like how important is like packaging,
the extras, the restoration work, you know, price point, and
arguably the most important thing is the quality of the film.
And you know, you factor those out, and Vineger Syndrome

(18:00):
is doing it about as well as anyone, you know,
the quality of the films themselves. Yeah, they're not going
to match the Criterion collection, It's not. But they're also
not like you know, poarding over you know, twenty five
year old laser disc extras for their films. You know,

(18:22):
they're producing new stuff like for most of these releases,
and you know, do you you know, we've talked about this,
but like every release, it's like I'm glad there's something
on me. But you know, some movies I kind of
finish and I have such a passionate dislike towards them

(18:44):
that I just want to inject the disk as soon
as possible. And other movies it's like no, I want
to deep dive into that. Let me watch every interview documentary, like,
you know, can't wait to put the an audio commentary
track on next time. All that. Absolutely, But yeah with
labels for me, like I think these, honestly, Vinegar Syndrome

(19:07):
and Manda Macabre are probably the two labels that I'm like,
whatever they put out, I'm just not even gonna second
guess it, just grabbing it. You know. I love you know,
I love what Radiance is doing in terms of their curation,
but you know, it's hard to shake the like these
are Criterion B sides label. But it's also really exciting because,

(19:30):
especially for somebody who's watched a lot of international art
house stuff for years, you know, Radiances you know, introduced
me to stuff I never heard of. And you know,
I've always spent at least back in the day with Criterion,
I was always way more excited about movies that ever
had a release as opposed to like, oh, they're you know,

(19:52):
upgrading this movie that was a studio release. It's like,
well yeah, even lately, it's like, I know, people get
excited like, oh, no, Country for Old Men's got a
four km Like that's cool, But like I'm way more
excited about something like The Mother and the Whore, or
sure a movie like The Runner and you know, the
caremera of Hoga films and stuff like that, where I'm like,

(20:12):
these weren't getting released anywhere. Yeah, and similar thing where
it's like every once in a while you'll get a
Showgirls roadhouse type of thing where the tenant was one
from this year, but like it's mostly stuff that's never
been on disc, like sometimes at all, like even on DVD.

(20:34):
You got to go back to like early early VHS stuff,
you know.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
You know, I was thinking about what you said about,
you know, Criterion versus Vinegarson's like, I think the way
that I've kind of come to terms with that in
my head a little bit is that there's there's people
that just get board shitless by French new wave.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
And you're not going to convince them otherwise.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
And whether or not it's a good film, whether or
not it's technically brilliant, and all those things, they're just like, Man,
I just hate myself watching this movie. And I think
the thing that I love about Vinegar Syndrome and seven
certainly falls into that and Mondum for sure, but I
think It gives people that have kind of like a
non traditional taste or like a non canonical taste a
way to celebrate their taste. And I like it for that,

(21:14):
you know, like you're getting this deluxe edition of of
something that may not you know, we'll never get that
respect otherwise.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
And you know, part of the thing with Vineger Syndrome
just from the get go is like them restoring and
preserving films that maybe wouldn't be deemed worthy by other people. Yeah,
and you know, shining a light on just these fringe
filmmakers and a lot of just regional, low budget, you know,
films made way outside of any studio system, and the

(21:42):
stuff that's not necessarily going to pop up on you know,
greatest film lists because nobody ever got to see these.
You know, look at something like The Caller, which you
know had like no theatrical distribution, I think maybe got
a brief VHS release or something and then just disappeared
for thirty years. Beneer Centram releases it and all of

(22:03):
us are like, this movie's amazing, What the hell is this?
Ben for lame that that's like.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Such a crazy example of a movie where let's just
say it's an hour and a half. I don't know
exactly how long it is, but let's just say it's
an hour and a half.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Eighty minutes of.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
That movie, you're like, okay, and then the last ten
minutes they completely transformed, like the whole experience of watching.

Speaker 4 (22:24):
It, I know, And it's one of those movies like
when it's done, you're like, I kind of want to
watch that again. See now that like recontextualizes everything that
we just done.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, the collar is so good. Nice call out.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah okay, so yeah, love love vinegar syndrome. I agree
with everything we've said so far as far as twenty
twenty four goes.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
You know, I was thinking about.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Just kind of calling out, like themes of twenty twenty
four is, like what because you know, they continue to evolve,
I think in really interesting ways. And the number one
thing that jumps out for me this year for them was,
you know, they have always had it seems like they've
always had a loose relationship with MGM and Paramount, But
to me, that seems like it's become solidified in a

(23:12):
really big way over the last year year and a half.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Oh definitely this November, I think somebody posted like the
back of releases and like you can see the Paramount
logo on like four of them, so it's like it
was definitely the theme of Black Friday, you know. So,
and that's been happening a bit because I know, Paramount
had like some big four K deal with Keino and

(23:37):
they've been licensing stuff pretty well, which is also odd
because Paramount's starting to kind of release their own four k's,
which they did with like Once upon a Time in
the West and Chinatown and a couple others. But you know,
so it's nice that at least they're you know, giving
access to their films exactly. But you know, the thing

(23:59):
with the you know, obviously dealing with studio films, you
sometimes have to deal with studio approval. With that, you
get a situation like Sony and Indicator, which uh really
kind of screwed their Ishtar release, which is a shame.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Right right right, Yeah, the whole thing where studios don't
want to hear that they're a commentary seeing their box
office failure.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
But it's like, yeah, which everybody knows it. Come on,
Like it's not like a surprise.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah, it's like, come on, man, Like, like you released
Morbius like, are we supposed to not mention?

Speaker 6 (24:38):
It's it's such an odd, such an odd stance, especially
for a movie from like the mid eighties that has
had an enormous critical re evaluation and you know, recontextualize
as you know, more and more people have kind of
discovered it and just kind of embrace delaye in May

(25:01):
as this trail blazing, you know, great comedic filmmaker.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Yeah, and speaking of Paramount, like, you know, anytime they
want to give us, you know, a new lead or heart,
great kid or anything, be more moren't happy to get
more first stuff on Blue right.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, it'd be interesting to Yeah, it'd be interesting to
see if which direction they go. But I mean, that's
that's one thing that kind of stuck out to me
this year was just it feels like they're getting into
a nice rhythm of having blood tracks come out or
having Mystaire or Obsession come out as part of a
forgotten Jolly set, but then also putting out you know,
the Tenant or Congo or Sliver some of these big

(25:40):
titles that kind of that balance seems to be like
they're getting that cash infusion to go chase what they
maybe what people and the staff really deeply love although yeah,
they would probably say they love these other movies too,
but I mean, you.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
Know, yeah, but you know, I think I think probably
we had this conversation about like Criterion. It is that,
you know, the films like you know, Shape of Water,
No Country for Old Men, or the recent announcement of
like God's Alla Biolantape, like those, the sales of those
movies are what's going to finance you know, the restoration

(26:16):
work and like not a pretty picture or choose me
or not choose me. Sorry that's coming from Yeah, that
is coming from Sorry.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, it's a good tune.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
Yeah. Again, it's like getting getting those big boy titles
that you know, maybe we're all kind of over because
we've seen them in there, you know, you know, those
are the things that are gonna you know, bring more
people to the label, but also help bring these lesser films,
you know, like something that maybe isn't going to sell
super well from them, like the Learning Tree. It's like

(26:51):
the same thing with Criterion, like having something like the
Keep Cell twelve thousand copies in the weekend. It's you know,
going you know, that's the reason why they're able to
you know, put out something like you know, blood tracks
or you know how everything that was in that tenth
anniversary said last year movies that which that's d you know,

(27:16):
absolutely adored, just because it felt very like true to
the roots of Vinegar Syndrome, even if like, yeah, was
every film great, No, but was every film like just
quintessentially like Vinegar Syndrome, Yes, And that's what made it
really really cool, especially as you know, these bigger partnerships

(27:36):
and studios happened. You know, you don't want to lose
sight of, you know, the things that built your initial
fan base. Totally.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, it was a it was a ballsy move. I
love that they did it. They celebrated their tenth ten.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Years of Vinegar Syndrome in in a great way.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
What about any other themes that that stood out to
you from this year?

Speaker 4 (27:59):
Honestly, it's something that's been happening for maybe the last
at least two years or so, but just more and
more dipping into the category three like Asian cinema. You know,
I think VSA has almost become like Vinegar Center Asia line.
It feels like this year, which I always love people

(28:20):
who are like, it's not like a VSA title It's
like VSA has always been just complete random nonsense, like
it whatever the hell they want.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
To throw on there. It's kind of becoming like VS.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Action and that kind of fits because it seems like
is at least some version of an action film.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
Well, I also look at it because they don't do
standards of those like I just assume that it's the
VSA is just titles that they have limited you know,
deals with, like things that can't just like constantly reprint
by you know, stuff like LA Wars and Action USA
got re released by you know, MVD, So I don't

(29:00):
think anyone in their right mind is going to re
release Doctor John's Dungeon of Death. But but you know,
maybe that's some of the things with some of those
Asian movies where they're like, yes, we'll let you put
it out, but like you can only do like five
thousand copies or whatever. Yeah, I'm entirely sure on the
workings of that, but that's that's a question for the
you know, Ryan and Joe and Justin.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I guess speaking of
World Cinema. The other one, I don't know that this
is a VSA. I guess there was one Santo release.
But they are doing good job, I think dipping into
Mexico cinema as well as well.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
Oh yeah, obviously it was the stuff of legend in
our discord about Intrepidos Punks like long when that was
teased like two years ago or something, so we've all
been like chomping at the bid for that movie. Yeah,
and absolute iconic theme song in the first film that
got played about as much as the one song that

(30:00):
was in Night Trying to Tear right.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yeah, you forget that song. It's too funny.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
I remember being feeling like number one Intrepredos Punks doesn't
really understand what a punk is.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
But number two this movie is just fun as hell.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
Oh yeah, like the punks are. It's basically a biker gang.
But yeah, yeah, that's stressed like wrestlers, like Mexican wrestlers
for that matter. The lead in that movie actually was
a Mexican wrestler, so it's like it checks out.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
But I just love like they're so honest about their
like I love sex with women and cocaine, Like they're
not hiding with their.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Oh no, they're zero subtlety in either of those films
to be honest, but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
But they're fun as hell. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Other than that, I think, you know, I don't really
like I don't know if any friends it stood out
to me this year specifically, other than stuff they've already done,
Like they're up to the seventh Forgotten Jolly, which is
crazy to me.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah we got yeah, we got to this year, so
like kind of one in January and one in October,
I believe.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
Yeah. So and and you hear people talk like, you know,
the guys from Mondo Digital, like Troy and Nathaniel, and
like there's so many more Jolly out there, like they
could be doing, you know, they could get as deep
as those you know, Quino Film Noir sets with those

(31:36):
like maybe getting to Forgotten Jolly like twenty three or
something in a few years.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Actually, the Keno sets are old enough to drink now.
I think they're up to like twenty two or twenty three.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
Yeah, I'm we're I think everyone's excited for the Quino
Film Noir Volume thirty just because it'll be a triple
accent of course, of course the reve numerals, but which
oh yeah, I got the four volumes from you, so yeah,
thanks for the deal on that I.

Speaker 5 (32:05):
Picked them up from somebody cheap. It's like, oh, that's you,
no problem. I've not gone much deeper on those, But
I think the same with you. I think I have
more of a fondness for obscure Giallo than obscure film noirs.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
I struggle with film noir unless they're like the top
tier film noir.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
I just.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Oh, it's just not my style, you know, like some
of the Yeah, it's just not my thing. I'd rather
watch an Italian Jolly any day or Polite to Touch
You film any day.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
I do love them, but like, obviously the forties fifties
studio films are going to lack the blood boobs that
Italians are known for.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
So yeah, so yeah, I'm trying to think of how
Italian blood and boobs because that's kind of like a
great segue into almost anything.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Vinegar syndrome. But if you too, if you were to
go back.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
And kind of look at twenty twenty four, was there
a particular month that stood out to you, or like
a handful of releases that really stood out to you,
I guess you could take that either way.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Well, I think the you know, they got up to
a good start with January obviously dropping Southern Comfort as
like the first VSU of the year, and one of
my resolutions for twenty twenty four was to watch more
Walter Hill films. So it definitely seemed like Vinegar Syndrome

(33:39):
had heard my prayers and dropped that like immediately at
the beginning of the year. So I was like perfect.
And obviously everyone who has any taste whatsoever is a
huge Barber Steel fan, So getting Horrible Doctor Hitchcock on
four K right at the beginning of the year was
another huge one. Yeah, we can debate how good the

(34:03):
film itself is, but I will never say no to
more for work getting released, and you know, we got
the forgot I always said as well. Also the May titles,
getting Invasion USA in particular. You know, I think the
first Canon four K action movie, which is also a

(34:24):
Christmas film like that was big. Trying to think what
else came out November part of that those releases.

Speaker 7 (34:38):
They had, oh yeah, they had China O'Brien. That was
the other big one exactly, And so I've gotten into
Cynthia walthro Channe O'Brien was like my most wanted release
of herd. So for vinegar centram to drop both of
those one is again just like them. Sometimes vinegar syndrome,

(34:59):
like they give you what you need, not necessarily what
you think you want. And other times it's like it's
like you manifest.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
A release where you're like, man, I wish somebody would
put this out in her symptoms, like hold on, buddy,
like we got you in like two months. And that's
that's what's really cool with this stuff, And that's kind
of the fun of the curation as just being like
I didn't know this film existed, but I'm so glad
it does and now you know, thanks to these guys.

(35:32):
You know, I am richer for having it.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
The film that jumps out to me, as you describe
it exactly like that. The film that jumps out to
me from this year is Singapore Sling.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
I was about to men from that. Yeah, arguably my
favorite release of the year. Yeah, and it was definitely
one of those like I had never heard of it,
didn't really know. I think, you know, definitely some people had.
It has some level of infamy among like fulk film fanatics,
but just incredible and you read the description and it

(36:07):
just sounds like the sleaziest, trashiest movie, but it's like
shot as just this beautiful art house style that you know,
really kind of classes up the joint but also like
elevates it, so it's not like just exploitative trash and

(36:27):
it's just it's just so weird and one of those
movies where you're like, I don't know where this is going,
but I'm one hundred percent on board for the journey.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Well, you earlier on you mentioned this, this tension about
putting trash and art on the same list, and I
think movies like so, there's a couple of movies this
year that I think are great bridges for that. Singapore
Sling I think is certainly one of them. I think
Obsession Tastes for Fear is another one where it shows

(36:57):
up on a Criterion release and you watch it, you're
not really you're not really arguing with it.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
You're like, yeah, I kind of get it.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
It's probably a little sleazy for Criterion, but like everything
else in that movie is is is an art house picture.
I mean, like it's a beautifully shut film.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
Oh yeah, and it's got that same style that like
Caligari and Cafe Flash do where it's like, yeah, it's
kind of titty trash, but it's also like really well
lit and really well shot and super stylized. You know,
in that movie, you know, the bpm the boobs per

(37:31):
minute was a fantastic ratio. So and also I think
that was I don't know if it was. It was
the first one I watched in that Forgotten Jolly set,
and I was just like, this set's already a winner.
Like starting with that one. I'm just like, I don't
care what the other two movies are. They can be,
you know, you know, they can be. The Killer is
one of thirteen two more times, but it'll still be

(37:54):
such just because of that film.

Speaker 8 (37:56):
The Killer.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
What if thirteen is a tough watch?

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Yeah, that's I have. I have all the limits other
Forgotten Jolly and like I knew we've been getting into
like that first volume. I was like, I know, this
one's going to be a little bit of a challenge.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
But that's funny that is that was a tough watch.
I forgot about that.

Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah, there's nothing to remember about it.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Speaking of like, I guess we didn't really talk about
we were talking about expanded geographies. Who didn't mention Spain?
But they did have that Spanish set, and that is
an interesting thing. There's there's a really deep history of
horror films in Spain, so that'd be interesting if they
put up more of that going forward.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
Yeah, and uh, whether or not people want to give
them credit for it or not, Spain and horror, really
Jess Franco was the guy. Yep, there really wasn't a
Spanish horror film before, like the awful Doctor oiloff and
that's the one that really kind of long. And then
you know a few years later when you know Nashi

(39:04):
came around, he became kind of like the king of
Spanish horror and obviously one of my all time favorite actors,
which Vinegar Syndrome has given us two of his films either,
which came out this year, but you know, hopefully trying
to think what is still out there, But that man
made like one hundred and fifty odd movies, so there's

(39:24):
definitely so yeah, and I know, like Vinegar Cyndrome is
not the most pro jest Franco labeled, but you know,
we did get one new Franco film this year in
that Spanish blood Back Death, so you know I'm happy
for that.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
I mean, at a minimum Franco films sell well.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
He has a very dedicated fan base, so oh yeah,
I don't know the rights issues, but I mean it
seems like it'd be worth putting it out if nothing else,
just because they know it would sell.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
It's a pretty guaranteed cell, I.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Think, yeah, and you know, I'm all for it. I
it's a dangerous gamble. But I basically binged like eighteen
Franco films in like two weeks and became completely like
tuned into his wavelength. And just now I'm just up
to like sixty seven or so Franco films. Just love

(40:18):
his stuff, and any new release I'm like, day one
must get immediately. I want to chat at the bit
for seven to send me a shipping notice so I
can watch Thong Girls. So just gonna move to the
top of my watch list for sure. But yeah, but
I also I fully understand Franco was an acquired taste

(40:38):
that even among like fulk movie fans have a lot
of them have not acquired that taste.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
But well they're doing there. They're slowly doing their bread
to to help shape that. We'll see if it continues.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
Oh yeah, Man's got like two hundred and eleven movies,
so hopefully a few more of them will come be
a Vinegar Center.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yeah, I'm I'm sure, Like if there's a crystal Ball,
I'm sure there's more in the pipeline somewhere. There's no
way they would there's no more outside of the main line. Well,
I mean, is there anything else? I already called out
Chinese torture Chamber story. The other big one for me
was Delirium.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
I had not.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Seen that before, and I just love Lomberto Baba. I
wish like I had more of a runway, like what
a wild movie.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
Yeah, it's again another one that's got a nice style
to it. Yep. Definitely leans heavy on the sleazy side,
but just a fun film and it's also kind of
fun to dig into, like some of the making of
stuff with that kind of how contentious you know, director
and star Wars and stuff like that. That was one

(41:50):
I did not see coming. I do have the old
code red Blu ray, so I wasn't perhaps quite as
excited about that upgrade as others. But well, I mean,
I will say this for Venger Syndrome. There they don't
do what a lot of other labels do and upgrade
their own stuff, so they're not I think mad Men,

(42:11):
mad Man and like sex World and Dracula sucks, or
like some of the only titles they ever upgraded themselves,
you know, two of which are hardcore titles, whereas so
many other labels are just like re releasing and re
releasing stuff, which you know, if you're in junkie for
the best picture quality. Great. But I like the fact

(42:34):
that Benningerstend, you know, they'll upgrade somebody else so it
still feels like a new release, you know.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yeah, huh, I guess it's it's speaking of That's a
pretty good segue because speaking of upgrading other people's releases,
if you look outside the main line into a lot
of the sub labels there, that's happening a lot there.
There are, for sure, are some movies that are getting
first time like I think VSL has a lot of
movies that are getting first time disc releases or at

(43:05):
least first time blue rays. But a lot of these labels,
like Cinematograph is something we should probably celebrate this year.
And you know, there's a lot of these sublabels that
are putting out some really amazing films that are different
than VS. Mainline, but like very excited to have on disc.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
Oh yeah, well I think the cinematograph. All right, we
all hate saying it. I don't know why, don't roll
off the top, but you know they kind of started
off with a bang for me with Little Darling. Then
Red Rock Quest just Little Darlings is just one of
those like I mean, it's like nineteen eighty but it

(43:45):
just has that seventies vibe where you're like, they wouldn't
make this movie today, Like there's no fucking way.

Speaker 9 (43:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
Yeah, there's so many reasons, and like those movies are
always fascinating to me now like oh this is aged terribly,
but more like, wow, things are different, you know. And
Red Rock West and another like kind of relic of
its time because it just is Slutch of just feels
like such a nineties like like Showtime, cable, neon noir,

(44:17):
like post Tarantino kind of you know movie. And I
realized more the more of those I watched, I'm like,
I really love these, like watching that, Like when I
revisited Dennis Hoppers Hotspot, I was like, this movie is
just fucking great. And Dennis Hopper had an extremely uneven

(44:41):
career as both an actor and a director, but man,
he was on a few people were better.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
It's hard to He's on both sides of the coin
of whether cocaine is good or bad because you know,
on his personal life and career, it obviously hurt it,
but if you look at this creative.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
Up but it kind of helped it. He had some
amazing work that he was a.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
There. There was a Miami Blues is another one. I
think they would fit in that category. Not not necessarily
a thing, but that was a release in the last
year or so.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
Yeah, that was one of well, that was one of
the launch titles I think for Radiance, so and again yeah,
that's that definitely same style of film. Yeah, but yeah.
The other obviously VSL is another one where you're like,
I don't really know what VSL does, but it almost

(45:34):
seems like and not just because they also release a
soul can set, but it almost feels a little like
vinegar syndromes like Radiance, where they're just like, hey, we're
gonna highlight some you know, movies from you know, other
countries that don't necessarily fit, but it may mainstream vinegar syndrome,

(45:57):
but we still want you to watch them, and you know,
and Terry Gations one of the best films they've probably released,
just on a technical standpoint, even though like on its
surface and you know, if you read the description, it's like, well,
this is kind of a women in prison film, but
it's obviously much more you know, cold war allegory and
you know, just super critical and just harrowing. You know,

(46:22):
it's not one of those women in prison films where
you know, you're almost you know, there's like there's like
slasher films when you root for people to get murdered.
I feel like the trash here women in prison films,
it's like you're like, yeah, thrower in the hole, like
you know, you know, be there or whatever, and you're
like cheering, like this the Wicked Warden or whatever. It's

(46:45):
like Reformirls, which is one of the greatest movies ever.
You know, that's almost it got to the point of
like stelf parody within the genre. But but there's that,
and then there's like, oh, this feels like hell and
I'm so sad for everyone in this situation. And that's
the movie like Interrogation, where you're like, yes, there's needity

(47:08):
in this, but like there's nothing like tantalizing about this.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Definitely no.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
I almost feel like interrogation reminds me a little bit
of like, what's that Charlotte Rampling Nazis ploitation flake. It's
like Nightporter or like one of those where it's like
kind of an art house nazis ploitation movie where the
prisoner kind of fall.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
I mean, Integration is not about.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Nazis, but where the prisoner kind of falls for the
guard and there's that tough relationship and it's it's confusing
at first. You don't know if it's like Stockholm syndrome
or what, and you kind of and it just kind
of unpacks in different ways. Bloodline is so VSL has
to be in total, you know, in the spirit of

(47:51):
being honest. VSL has the most, like the percentage wise,
the most releases.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
I just don't like on of like what they do.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Like I didn't vibe with Five Cards Stud I get that,
like the pitch of like it's a Western slasher movie.
I get it, okay, I mean I don't know. And
then Bloodline was another one I just didn't vibe with
that much, although I kind of see his merits, but
it didn't hit with me.

Speaker 4 (48:19):
Yeah, and that's also fine. And that's one of the
nice things about it being, you know, a sub label
is you can kind of pick and choose. I know
some of us, the collectors in US are like be
a completionist, and then the practical side of us is like,
do I need to own five cards stuff? The answer
is probably not, you know, like I think I can.

(48:41):
I can let that one go. It may be worth
a watch, but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
I don't think it's this year, and I'm sorry if
it is, but I do want to call out sex
Mission is one that everybody should own.

Speaker 4 (48:54):
I think that was a January release, so that might
have been like, yeah, that might have been like that
first week of the year.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Okay, sex Mission is amazing, like great and it fits in.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
Yeah, they seem to be hidden when they're dealing with
Eastern Europe. So as long as the VSL's stick to,
you know, the Eastern bloc, like I think we've we're
in for a good time, or at least in for
some good films at least.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Yeah, quality movie is not necessarily VSP.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
I think the ones I can't again, I can't remember.
I'm pretty sure this is this year. But I would
beg that everybody sees divinity. I love divinity.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Have you seen it?

Speaker 4 (49:43):
I believe so.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
It's it's black and white and it ends with a
long claymation fighting sequence and special effects, and it's uh
a futuristic movie. It's like it's just got it's this
amazing like mashup of genre and and the person who
made it I have to look up his name in
a minute, but it's one of his earlier films and
he's a Gradua.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
Yeah Eddie what Eddie Alcazar?

Speaker 3 (50:09):
Alcazar, thank you?

Speaker 4 (50:10):
Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
I want to watch this guy's career because visually and
in like the visual effects, this guy's amazing, Like he's
years ahead of most young fighters.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
I have not seen it. Darm times. Yeah. Sometimes when
you do thirteen and thirty movies a year, you forget
what you've seen this year.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
I think you.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Would remember it if you saw it. When you said that,
I was I was thinking you probably hadn't seen it,
just because it's almost like a Bertrand Mandico movie, where
it's it's just first of all, there's a lot of
kind of aggressive sexual content in the movie, but it's
not necessarily pornographic. It's more done to be kind of
like an exploitation film, but then visually when it when

(50:53):
it moves out towards like the claymation and some of
the crazier fighting sequences, it becomes something different and it's
just like, this movie is fucking awesome.

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Yeah, yeah, I know. We have a resident a dying
Earth fanatic in our group, so who also signed also
signed off on the film. So I'm like, all right,
if he's if he's on board, it's probably right up
the valley. He's the one that got me to one
of the people got me to watch Morning Patrol, which
I sucked. I seek that out. Like as soon as

(51:25):
I finished watching Singapore Sling, I was like, this movie
is so great, Like what else has this guy gout?

Speaker 3 (51:30):
Theah?

Speaker 4 (51:32):
At least at the time Morning Patrol was on YouTube,
it might still be. So if you know, you wanted
to check it out, I would definitely recommend, especially if
you did. You know, it's not like Singapore Sling necessarily.
I don't know if any movie really is, but it's
definitely another one certainly worth watching.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
The other big VSP for me, I thought Riddle of
the Fire was cute. It's not in the state that's
necessarily like my style of film. It's certainly cute and
well made as far as like that kind of you know,
middle school to like early high school age kids going
on a quest around the city, and this one feels
a little bit more like a maybe like a board

(52:17):
game style quest.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
But but to me, Eight Eyes is the one that
I really like. Divinity and Eight Eyes to me are
both like well worth the watch. They're really really good movies.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
Yeah I will. I have not gotten to Eight Eyes yet, so.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
All right, they're awesome. And then the VSU that's been
a little bit of a lighter year. But they did
Southern Comfort in the Navy's Deals and where was.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Where's Congo? Is that a vs U?

Speaker 4 (52:50):
Yeah, that was a v SU.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
So three that's not bad. That's about on track for
what they.

Speaker 4 (52:54):
Yeah, that's they tend to do them like for the
big sales, like they're not going crazy with that line,
which is good because you know, even as a subscriber,
they're usually about like thirty five bucks a pipe, and
you know which for a movie like Southern Comfort, I'm like,
absolutely day one, take my money. For a movie like,
you know, Navy Seals, Navy Seals. I'm like, maybe I'll

(53:19):
hold off for a bit. I don't think this would
go anywhere. You know, you never do, know though, there
are random titles that just sell out immediately. I remember
because I didn't renew my subscription in the beginning of
twenty twenty three, and from Beyond I was like, that'll win.
I was like, I'll get on the next sale, and

(53:39):
it was like, no, you won't. You're gonna pick the
price right now if you want. It's not gonna be around.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
Yeah, from beyondest I.

Speaker 4 (53:48):
Know, but you're also like, but from beyond it's like
it's not obscure. There's already blu ray of it. And
it was like, yeah, it's like no, we don't care,
like and stuff like that. And you know, uh, Cannibal
and The Keep both sold out in this last Black
Friday sale, which is incredible and great and sometimes you

(54:08):
don't really know which ones are gonna absolutely take off.
But because I think a Delirium as well, somebody mentioned
sold out during the last sale and that wasn't even on,
that wasn't even fifty percent off. I was still full price,
but I think it's sold out of a limited edition
during the last the Black Friday though that's wild.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
You know, I don't I don't mean to get too
much into their their like finances, but like, you know,
if that sells out, I mean that means that's depending
on the title. Like the keep I think was six
hundred thousand dollars just in like a couple of days.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
And especially when you consider like subscribers all got a copy.
So if it's selling, you know, eight thousand copies outside
of that, you know, that's awful price. Basically, I mean,
there's what's that ever going to be like completely SRP,
But it's like, you know, you know, regular price.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
I would say, that's a good point.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yeah, it's like a what is it like a fifteen
to twenty percent discount off.

Speaker 4 (55:05):
Of yeah, something like that. I'm not entirely sure. I
haven't been a subscriber for a while now, so I
kind of forget what the normal regular prices with.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
The normy's face, but no, I mean that's you know,
they're they're I guess my whole point of bringing up
the commercials at all is just to say that where
Criterion my complaint. I love the movies they put up.
My complaint for them is that I feel like they've
gotten lazy with the money they're making and haven't kept
up the standard of all around release. And they're the

(55:39):
movies are great, but the all around release sometimes it's good,
sometimes it suffers. You know, they haven't had a megabox
set even in a while, which is kind of at
least one thing that they used to do very well.
But Vinegar Syndrome seems to reinvest that money well. And
I'm happy with the fact that they're rich because it
seems like they're I mean, I'm not saying to people,
but like the company, I'm happy that it cash positive

(56:00):
because it seems like they're doing good things.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
With it, oh exactly. And like that's the thing with Criterion,
just industry leader and laser discs obviously, you know, set
the bar super high during the DVD era, and it's
like we're we're sitting here now in the twenty twenties
and it's like, yeah, they're not trying to be the

(56:23):
best label anymore. I think they're just like taking it
a little for granted. And whereas you do see labels
like Severn and Vinegar Syndrome in particular, and you know,
even to a extent arrow and you know, I know
they're got slightly bigger ownership now, but you know they're
still putting out quality releases, still producing new stuff, and

(56:46):
also packaging is just great criterion with their digibooks that
everyone hey, it's it's like, please stop doing these.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Absolutely, but yeah, we're.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
Not, yeah, not here to here to talk about Vinegerson.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
But for comparison's sake, I mean, I think that's it's
important to bring it up because for years, if you
talked about physical releases, it was there was only a
few that you would really kind of mention. But Beneger
Syndrome's kind of become that industry leader. So I think
that's in quality of.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
Release, oh, I mean, for better or worse. They've also
made an entire industry super self conscious and aware of slipcovers,
which you know, it's it's I would highly recommend anyone
getting into Blu rays now to just say no to slipcovers.
He'll be you'll be happier. You know, you'll lose the

(57:38):
fummo you'll buy, you'll buy movies you actually want. But again,
it's like part of the thing with them, and like
the hard boxes, it's like there's just like a there's
a feel to them that just is like, oh, like
there's care put into this, like not just you know,
newly commissioned artwork, but just like the quality of it,
the thickness of it. You know, it's you know, I'm

(58:00):
talking like how Patrick Bateman and Paul Allen and very
business cards comparing business cards. But yeah, there's an art
to what your syners do and it's not just like, hey,
we're just going to slap the flip cover on it
so we can charge you know, a couple bucks more
for this release.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
That's actually I wonder if they could ever put out
American Psycho that's right up there alley.

Speaker 4 (58:22):
It would be well, there's going to be a new
American Psycho.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Yeah, I refused technologe its existence, but.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
Well it doesn't exist yet. That's true. That's true.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
That's true. I'm trying to think.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
I mean, look, as far as like the main stuff
goes away, we didn't talk specifically about VSA the standout
for me this year. I think it's tough because I
really liked I for an Eye. I think probably you
just love on delivery was a great comedy and I'm
so happy they're putting out Stephen Child movies. But I

(58:56):
just I don't know, I feel like it has to
be They call me Macho a Woman as the standout
release of the year for that.

Speaker 4 (59:02):
Yeah, it's the dumbest film I've ever seen, and I
mean that in a loving way. Like it's every every
every decision, everyone, everything, everyone does. It's just it's so dumb.
But it's just like there's just such a charm to it.
It's just so light and it's dumbness. I guess it

(59:23):
was just a movie that, like it was hard to
kind of settle out of rating because I'm like, this
is not good, but it's also like I love it
and I'm having so much fun with this, and ultimately,
like that's kind of what you want with the VSA line,
you know, You're like, you don't have to be masterpieces,
but like I want, like I want them to be fun.
And that one definitely is just kind of taking a

(59:46):
quick look at my own rankings. Yeah, I'm pretty sure
that was my highest BSA of the year as well.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
So it had four stars for me on Letterbucks. I
didn't have a problem. I just like it I think
that has that much of a vision behind it, and yeah,
it's gonna get it's gonna get high ranking for me.
But yeah, so outside of the vsays, just for the
sake of time, maybe let's not go into too much detail.

(01:00:15):
But I do feel like we have to talk about
OCN a little bit because they That's the other trend
I think is that for me, OCN moved from being
like a really interesting part of what vinegar syndrome does
to becoming like, I don't even know what that is.
They're kind of creating a whole new well. I guess
there's two ways to look at it. One they're monopolizing

(01:00:37):
the industry, but the other way is they they're creating
a distributor that actually get is good at marketing too,
because like no offense to MVD, but like they don't.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
They're not great at marketing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Like you know about their stuff because they release arrow
in the US, so you accidentally are using them even
if you don't know it. But like, I don't think
any distributor has ever had the attention that OCENEZ right now.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Oh yeah, and it's like almost every month it's like
you get your little you know, boutique Blu Ray Market
of all these extremely random things from everywhere, and again,
like a couple of months, you know, a couple of
years ago, it was kind of like Radiance now where
they have like RaRo and I think like one or
two other things that they like they've picked up like

(01:01:25):
fun City editions and stuff. And that used to kind
of be the Vinegar syndrome thing. It was like, you know,
AGFA Saturn Score or whatever, and like that was kind
of it. And then now we're at that point where
you know, it's anywhere from fourteen to twenty one partner
releases a month, and you know, it obviously makes it
hard for any completionists to stay up on all of them,

(01:01:49):
but you know, but it is also just a delightful
sampling of everything, and it's you know, it's fun that
this past month we got stuff like Close Your Eyes
and uh No Home Movie, but then also like Takashi
Katano Films, and you know, we'll say about you know,

(01:02:13):
an X Men documentary. I was gonna say Tanta Claus
Conquerors of Marshall, but that was a month before. But whatever,
you know, the act the title was another Blood around
the Triple Feature and it's just the diversity and the
partner label stuff is great. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
There, and there was a Shanta Ackerman movie this month
as well, like it yeah, oh sorry, so yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Of course, of course the yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
But I mean if you look at this year overall,
they've had Fukusaku release through I think it was in Classics.
Kanye's been putting out some amazing movies, like they've the
Patrick tan movie My Heart is that Eternal Rose, like
they're just I don't know that. And then oh, I
mean not even as I mentioned Saturns Court, you know,
with a lot of this stuff like the Richard Baylor

(01:02:58):
set or some of the well I guess it was earlier,
but some of the Scooter McCrae movies, like it's just
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
I love it, man.

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
I love the.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Partner labels and it's fun talk about Discovery. I think
I have a mix every month of feeling like, oh,
no shit, they're putting out Katano movies like that's amazing,
or they're putting out the you know which what is
it the what's the title that Chantal Ackerman movie?

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
You just said it twice?

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
No home movie?

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Yeah, no home movie, like or you know, Bastards from
Clai Toony a few months back, like that kind of stuff.
But then there's twelve that I've never.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
Heard of, and like it's like, yeah, the fact that
they're also you know, some of these labels are releasing
films that had very limited, if any like film distribution,
like this Close your Eyes with one from this year
where I think it played in one theater, you know,
in the city of Chicago. And then something like them,

(01:04:00):
which I think Utopia put out. That was one that
actually did get released in my theater for like a
week and I was like, oh, I'm going to try
to go see it, and just something came up that
week and then it was gone. And you know, six
months later it's like, oh, here's an O SCN release
and I was like, all right, these guys are picking
up the flag.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Though, I mean it's a good point, like because the
big ones for that, like Yellow Veil is really good
about that, Utopia has some new releases. Big World is
pretty good about new releases. I'm sure there's some really
obvious wins I'm missing out, but IFC film movement, there's
some of these ones. But like we talk about film preservation,
meaning like films from the seventies.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
That might not get a release.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
But honestly, now, the distribution models kind of fucked and
like if if some of these movies they play in
festivals for a week, like they're done unless they they
get these movies or these releases.

Speaker 4 (01:04:49):
Yeah know, and I'm a lot it's a success story.
But hundreds of Beaver's perfect example, Yeah, festivals two years
ago and didn't get distribution until like this year, and
even then like very select screenings, like no no real
wide release. Because I was looking for it, I did
find I did get to see it in the theater,

(01:05:11):
which hell of an experience, and obviously I was not
messing around. I was picking that up day one, which
turned out to be our one. Two thousand slipcovers didn't
even last hour. So yeah, and you know, I'm not
gonna I don't want to oversell it, but it's hundreds

(01:05:34):
of Beaver's, the best Ocean release of the year probably,
But damn, I'm really excited to watch the drunk commentary.
You know, I'm gonna make sure I'm as drunk as them, because,
as anyone knows, it's like if you're drunk and with
drunk people it's a lot of fun. If you know
you're sober and they're drunk, they're annoying as hell, and

(01:05:55):
vice versa.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
So it's that family guys get where they're they're like
playing this concert level piano and guitar, and then it
shows them in real life and they're just like slamming
down on the keys and said, but yeah, no, I
think I missed on the slipcover. I logged in like
two hours later and it was long gone. But but
if you went to the website you could get that

(01:06:16):
like special wooden box or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
M h. Which I think I think my roommate grabbed
that because he had he was stuck opening at work
that day when they dropped him, and by the time
he like had a chance to check the releases, he
was like, damn it. And I'm like, I would have
picked you up, man. But they put a cap now
on subscribers only being able to buy one partner title.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
You know, as we talk about year in review, that
actually is kind of an interesting point to bring up.
You know, back when Anchor Bay was releasing ninety five
thousand copies of The Evil Dead, they were selling out
and there was that many collectors or at least people
that wanted that movie, and I don't know what happened
to them all. I think a lot of them went
to streaming. But Vinegar Sai Drum's doing an interesting job

(01:07:01):
of identifying how many people are buying physical media. Still,
I think that keeps a good example of that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Which again, yeah, that's one of those titles that we
talk about that like kind of keeps the lights on
because it's you know, there's not necessarily twelve thousand devoted
Vinegar Syndrome fans out there, you know, so that's definitely
bringing in people who normally don't have this label on
their radar.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:07:29):
You know, it's one of those like we all have
our film that kind of like introduced us to vinegar syndrome.
And like for me, I think some of the hardcore
stuff is the first releases I remember there is, but
like the first like oh they put out like real
movies type of thing is Looking for a Liquid Sky,

(01:07:49):
which oh yeah, is featured in Danny Perry's Cult Movies
Volume three, which I do own. It's the hardest of
the three volumes to find, and Perry one of the
biggest influences on me and you know, kind of my
taste and introducing me to a lot of stuff and
so finding fittinger syndrome through Liquid Sky through his book,

(01:08:14):
you know, that's kind of where it all comes together.
You know. He's also written about a number of other
upcoming releases, and his Alternate Oscars book is where I
first heard of Booking for Mister Goodbar. So that's a
film that's been on this old word document of like
movies to look for for twenty years. And the fact
that that finally got to release the last month and

(01:08:36):
finally got to watch it last night, I was like,
this has been a long time coming.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Without going too deep into review, how was it? Did
it live up to the expectation?

Speaker 4 (01:08:47):
Oh, definitely, there's I'm not going to say it's a
perfect film, but there's a certain charm to like this
leazy seventies thing, and I think it's movies pleasier than
you would think, especially like because no one associates like

(01:09:07):
Diane Keaton is an actress who was like, you know,
a sex pot or like in a bunch of exploitation,
Like not at all, but it's just like it's a
very kind of against type role. But she does kind
of have some of the same mannerisms that she had
and like Annie Hall. So it's interesting to kind of
like compare the characters in your mind of like, oh,

(01:09:30):
what if this is you know, kind of the same character,
just not influenced by you know, Woody Allen's you know,
alb in that movie whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
And I'm just trying to picture that like verbal cadence
and kind of insecurity and like some of the stuff
that she hasn't good.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
That's fascinating.

Speaker 4 (01:09:48):
Well, it's what's someone that's like early in the film,
because it's kind of like there's a few like fantasy
themes with her where she's like kind of picturing herself
as a different person, and then it's like the awkwardness,
but like she kind of takes more agency as the
film gets goes along. So it's one of those like
I would have been like she deserved an Oscar for
it if and I would say that if she didn't

(01:10:09):
actually win an Oscar that year for any all. So
I'm like, she was absolutely killing it. And as soon
as you watch it, like you hear the opening, you
like the sound track, and then you see the list
of songs in the sound opening credits and you're like, oh,
that's why this movie hasn't gotten released in like thirty
years because of like so many complicated you know, multiple

(01:10:33):
record labels trying to deal with clear music rights and such.
So interesting. So yeah, but yeah, it's it was easily
the best movie from this month from Fittinger Syndrome. Well, well, but.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
I joke with you before we started recording that I'll
be curious to check out Sliver because my VHS copy
had about five minutes that was fuzzed out from seeing
it the same scene over and over again.

Speaker 4 (01:10:59):
Yeah. Yeah, I watched that last night. And what's also fun,
somebody on letterbox made this connection that they were like,
I'm picturing Tom Berenger's character and Sliver being the same
character and looking for mister Goodbar, And if you watch
the two movies back to back, you're like, oh, I
can kind of see it. Like yeah, so it is

(01:11:23):
fun because he's not in looking for mister Goodbar much,
but he absolutely makes an impression. I don't want to
give anything away with that, but then you know, Sliver
is another one where it's got that like just trashy
Joe esther house charm. Speaking of like feeling being fueled

(01:11:43):
by cocaine. Like some of the plot and like all
the men in the movie are just like what like,
Like the characters are incredibly interesting, but they're so not
based on any normal patterns of human behavior. It's like
kind of the similar thing that you know, infamously done

(01:12:05):
on like Showgirls, where you're like, these characters are iconic
and classic, but they're also like nobody nobody acts like that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Wait wait, yeah, well, David, I think that is, in
my mind, a good wrap up. Anything that ends in
Showgirls is a good wrap up of discussion on film.
Is there anything specifically that you want to call out

(01:12:35):
that you didn't we didn't get a chance to discuss
before I switch over to uh the interview here with
Richard Bailey.

Speaker 4 (01:12:44):
Well, I would honestly just take a quick minute. I
believe Roommates was this year and if which is in
my opinion, like the best actual film that's happens to
have hardcore sex in it. Just an absolute masterpiece and
obviously on the melicing side, they've been kind of going

(01:13:05):
hard on you know, Chuck Vincent Films, and I've been
loving it. But the other one I want to bring
up is Through the Looking Glass, which is the third
proper melasting release, and it's just so cool, so weird,
so different. Like you know, it's one of those like

(01:13:28):
gateway movies that if you are like horror a Jason
and you're not interested in watching you know, seventies porn,
I get it, but like that's a movie that's like, okay,
I can kind of get into this, and you know,
it's one of the best releases of the year. And
I know, like since they split off that site as
a full steparate entity, like not as much attention gets

(01:13:51):
drawn to those films. And obviously, you know, you know,
YouTube and other platforms have their own issues with bringing
up stuff like that, but yeah, but they're doing great
work and those are the best releases of the last
like twelve or so months.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
Wow, awesome, I'm so glad you brought that up. I
forgot to cover the melloscene stuff, but yeah, they're.

Speaker 4 (01:14:12):
Can looking at my list and I was seeing like
the Roommates and Through the Looking Glass and I was like, oh, yeah,
I gotta gotta bring.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Those perfect way to end it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Circling back to how Vinegar Syndrome started, So David Professor
Gaskin WPQX or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:14:29):
I'll link it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
Thank you so much for making this time, and I
would you know, we'll see how the years go, but
I would love for you to come back and do
this every year and just kind of break down the years.
It's fun to talk to you, and you actually watch
all the movies, which not everybody does, and you actually
have a lot to say.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
So oh yeah, I'm I've now seen as of last night,
four hundred and seventy two Vinegar Syndrome.

Speaker 3 (01:14:53):
Amazing, amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:14:55):
Obviously I will restub this year and I will be
u I will easily be quick clearing the five hundred
film threshold.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Well, yeah, see you online, and thanks so much for
making time.

Speaker 4 (01:15:09):
All right, go on, say.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Ah David, just awesome, Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
That was so good.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
He nailed it, Yes, second guest from the VS Discord.
So the banter is not always exactly like that. I
would say the VS Discord can get a little unwieldy
at times, but it's a lot of fun and there's
really good people on it, as we found out this
year through Jayden and now I know David, you know

(01:15:43):
switching gears quite dramatically for this year and extravaganza. I
thought it would be a nice touch to kind of
end the year on an interview, and there was an
opportunity to do that when one of the filmmakers from
one of the Saturn's core releases and I started talking

(01:16:04):
and realized that he was up for an interview, and
I thought, what, this could be the perfect time to
do it. I hope you all enjoy this. I think Richard,
who we're gonna hear from here, is just such a
cool an honest person, and it's really fun to hear
him talk about like a kind of a finite period

(01:16:26):
in his life when he was kind of using his
full creative mind and how much affinity he has for
it and how much it shaped him. And I don't know,
I love this interview. I thought it was a really
a really honest one and made me a huge fan
of mister Baylor. So let's check it out. And this
will be part two of three that we do. After Richard,

(01:16:47):
we're going to dive into a little bit of an
extended session with Celeste and then we'll call it a day. Okay,
rolling on with the year in review, we have a
kind of a real special treat here. You know, I
feel extremely lucky to get to do what I do

(01:17:09):
with this podcast and speak to members of Integer Syndrome
and you know, members of the Special Features community and contributors,
and every once in a while, it just blows my
mind that I even get to talk to filmmakers. And
one such filmmaker is here today, a Richard Baylor, who

(01:17:30):
is a part of an amazing Saturn's Core release called
Our World Is Drowning and Going to Hell, The Underground
Films of Richard Baylor. Richard, thank you so much for
making time for this.

Speaker 8 (01:17:41):
No, thank you very much for inviting me on the show.
Really excited to be part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
Absolutely, So this was a release that was a long
time in the making, but it came out just a
few months back. So I guess, first of all, congrats
on getting your work memorialized through this retrospective.

Speaker 10 (01:18:01):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 8 (01:18:01):
And I'll be honest, it wasn't something I was actually
looking to do, and when Ross made contact, I was
a little bit dubious at first and kind of wondered
where was this coming from, because I actually hadn't been
active as a filmmaker since the mid nineties and I
never created a digital or social media profile, and it

(01:18:22):
was kind of like a series of films made almost
I look as artifacts back at that point in time
with the underground scene in the UK. And so it
was surprising that Ross reached out and took a little
bit of convincing to make sure that he knew what
he was doing wanting to work with myself. But I'm
glad he persevered.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Oh wow, There's three different ways I could take the
conversation just on that comment. But I think maybe this
is a good opportunity just quickly to give some love
to Ross. So we're talking about Ross Snyder who runs
sat in Court, But can you just give everyone some
in site into how it is working with us.

Speaker 8 (01:19:04):
Yeah, So what happened was I got an email to
my personal email account and which doesn't have Richard Baylor
as the name of the email, inquiring if I, once
upon a time made some underground films and that he
had been looking for me for many years and had
a project that he wanted to do.

Speaker 4 (01:19:25):
Oh wow.

Speaker 8 (01:19:27):
And the funny thing was is that it took a
little bit of you know, convincing me to have a
dialogue just because I didn't really feel there would have
been much of an interest, and it was just quite surprising.
And then what kind of sealed it was. Ross sent
me a photo of correspondence that we had back in

(01:19:47):
probably maybe ninety ninety one, when he had purchased some
of my VHS tapes, I think after seeing some advertisements
and reviews and Film Threat magazine. And then once I
saw that not only did he have photos of the
letters that we were corresponding back and forth, and then
he had a photo of the three VHS tapes that

(01:20:08):
I had released back in the early nineties, and then
I kind of knew, Okay, he really has been trying
to search me out.

Speaker 3 (01:20:16):
That's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
Well, Ross's you know, were you familiar once you got
to know I guess Ross a little bit and Saturn's
Cory a little bit. I'm sure you felt you were
in good hands. But from a you know, buyer's standpoint
or a consumer standpoint, I just think Ross is the best.
Like he's you know, he's doing that exactly what you

(01:20:39):
just described every month almost right, and putting out somebody's
amazing work that needs to be discovered again. So I'm
a huge fan of what Ross is doing.

Speaker 8 (01:20:51):
Yeah, and I, you know, I wasn't familiar with the
vinegar syndrome and Saturn's core. And once we started to
get engaged and he explained how he operates and how
the wider organizations that he works with operates, I started
to do a little bit of research online and then
realized how much they're doing for the promotion of artists

(01:21:14):
and films across a whole new community of viewers which I,
you know, had lost contact with many many years ago.

Speaker 10 (01:21:24):
And the other thing that was really.

Speaker 8 (01:21:28):
Positive working with Ross and his team was the amount
of control that I had over how it was presented,
the digital restoration of the films, which you know, they
were pretty rough and ready when they were made, and
you know, they still look rough and ready, which is
part of the appeal in what it looked like back

(01:21:48):
at that time working on VHS. And also he encouraged
me to do a documentary, which at first I was like,
you know, what the hell am I actually going to
say about things that happened thirty five years ago, But
it was a good opportunity for me to reflect upon
how I got involved, how they were made. It actually

(01:22:10):
was quite fun to do and I did it with
my wife Sophie, and another chap Jason Whitaker, who was
kind of my partner in crime, with a lot of
the music and some of the other mechanical aspects of
making it. So it truly was a project that he
put into my hands and he just facilitated the logistics
in a way, and I had complete creative control, which

(01:22:32):
was really really nice and refreshing to work in that environment.

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
Well, one more question on that before we move into
the actual movies themselves. You also had the pleasure, well,
I'm assuming great pleasure of getting to work with Heather
Drain as part of this. Did you ever get to
actually talk to her or was that more of something
at a distance.

Speaker 8 (01:22:56):
Interestingly, when Ross presented the package and he said, you know,
we'd like to do this retrospective, we'd love you to
do a documentary, and he said it's going to come
with a twenty eight page booklet, And the first thing
I thought about was, there's not that much to write
about that's going to fill a twenty eight page booklet.
But then when he mentioned David Flint was going to

(01:23:17):
participate in David Flint, for those who aren't aware, was
one of the first promoters of my work in the
UK and ran a magazine with David Slater and David
Caracas called head Press, and eventually David Flint moved off
and created Divinity, and between the head Press team and
Divinity with David Flint really is what moved my I

(01:23:40):
guess career forward. He also mentioned that Vincent Alberano was
going to be participating with an essay, and then he
also then said Heather was going to work on it.
And I wasn't familiar with Heather in advance of that,
but I read her piece on me as part of
proofing the packaging, and she really had some great insights

(01:24:00):
into the work. And I will say she's done an
amazing job of an audio commentary over Persium Delectus, which
is probably worth watching her version of it than my
original version.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Well we'll get into all that in just a second,
but I like, I really like that one. But yeah,
I'm a what a cool story. Yeah, this is just
cements what I already knew about Ross, but I hadn't
heard it from this perspective before, which is not only
is he a nice person and sincere in his efforts,

(01:24:33):
but he just knows he's an encyclopedia, which is really
cool to hear that he would be able to know
all those connections ahead of time and make sure they
were included.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
So going back the one thing, I guess it's probably
worth just doing a quick I mean, I feel so
like I know this story so well at this point
after watching the documentary and reading up on you. But
for those that don't know, I think your story is
pretty fascinating. So you are American born but have lived

(01:25:07):
in the UK for quite a while. Can you talk
a little bit about the journey, just because you mentioned
your wife, I know it's part of the story, So
in just you know, one or two minutes, not too long,
but just just kind of give people a taste for
you know, how you got to the UK and how
you got a camera, and why you started shooting things

(01:25:28):
to begin with, and your ties to music and just
kind of that a little bit of backstory that leads
up to the movies themselves.

Speaker 8 (01:25:36):
Yes, I'll try to condense into the reader's digest version.
So I grew up in Michigan kind of in the
middle of nowhere literally, which is between Kalamazoo and Vitle Creek,
middle of nowhere, and was always part of kind of
punk movement, always interested in things that were alternative, avant garde,

(01:25:58):
whether they be films. Heavily obsessed with John Waters, Kenneth Anger,
russ Meyer, played in bands, and in my last year
of high school had a French exchange student come in
and fell in love Sophie. Still my wife. Had to

(01:26:18):
also determine how do I get myself out of that
Middle America and get to Europe and kind of become
part of this scene that I was. I was also
very much attached to and can stay with Sophie. So
I joined the Forces as a way of getting out
of where I was at to England, and you know,

(01:26:41):
it was a means to an end, and as soon
as I was able to then get out of the
Air Force, I did. But I fell in love with
the UK as well and stayed so have been in
the UK since nineteen eighty four, got married in nineteen
eighty four and immediately connected into the local underground scene,

(01:27:01):
whether it be music, film, literature, art and so forth.

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
That's amazing and I think it. You know, one of
the things that stood out to me in the story
was you got in you then started not only did
you have an interest in the Cinema of Transgression movement,
I guess we can call it, but you actually became
for a short time a distributor of theirs, or at

(01:27:29):
least a part of that supply chain that helped get
their films into Europe as well, right in the UK.

Speaker 8 (01:27:35):
Yeah, that's correct. So how it all started, actually in
a way to me making films was reading the liner
notes to the Fetus All Nude Review twelve Inch Bedrock,
because there are a few instrumental pieces that were used

(01:27:55):
in Richard Kern's films, and on the liner notes was
an address and if I remember right about peel Box
of how to Connect to Death Trip films. And so
I made contact and then started to get some of
the VHS tapes sent over from Richard as well as
Nick Zed, who at that point was promoting the Cinema

(01:28:16):
of Transgression VHS tape, which was that compilation of you know,
not just Richard Curl and Nick Zed, but also John
Spencer for example, and there's a handful of other filmmakers
on that. And then started up a bit of a
conversation and communication with the filmmakers there in a way.

(01:28:37):
What really triggered in me is as much as I
loved russ Meyer and John Waters and all of that,
it didn't seem that something that I was going to
be able to do. But then it's kind of the
punk rock attitude towards music and it kind of applied
to filmmaking and cinema, and it was more about the
intent in the emotion and the thought of telling the

(01:28:59):
story than necessarily the technical aptitude and mechanics that you
might think you need to do it. And so that's
kind of how I embarked upon doing this. And the
very first foray into it was with the soner for
Extreme Noise Terror, who I was very good friends with,
and he was very much into kind of the gore

(01:29:20):
side of what was called video nasties.

Speaker 10 (01:29:23):
In the UK, kind of holcust and things like that.

Speaker 8 (01:29:25):
So I was focused on this very the uneasy and
the unsettling kind of aspects of films, and he was
very much more into probably the gore and the horror
side of it. And so we kind of concocted a
few stories to just kind of dip our toe into
it and see what we could.

Speaker 2 (01:29:41):
Do, you know, just as a quick, very quick, tangent.
As you speak about that, It's interesting that you bring
up the punk sort of spirit because I grew up
as a punk as well, and I had, you know,
green hair for years, and I don't know, there's just
like a you kind of get into the.

Speaker 3 (01:30:02):
Let's call.

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
I don't know, like there's a there's a way that
you approach the world. I think when you're in that
scene for a while of kind of not giving a
fuck and kind of just saying like I'm gonna go
make my own path, right, And I think the cinema
of transgression even I mean even some of the people
that are maybe a little bit more of a household
name like a John Mortzugu or Richard Kerrn, you know.

(01:30:27):
But but everybody in that movement there, their films are
just all very much their own. And I've always loved
that about the movement. You can you can tell that
there's no there's no constraints on what they're making and
they're you know, they're setting out to just go tell
a story that's very personal to them.

Speaker 8 (01:30:48):
Yeah, exactly. And I think I think it's also something
that's just not restricted because you happen to like a
style of music, it's almost I would call it a
life philosophy that actually you can apply that lens to
all aspects of your life. And in a way, I
was playing in punk bands at that point in time
in the in the in the UK, and it's just

(01:31:09):
taking that same lens and then applying it over a
different creative outlet.

Speaker 10 (01:31:15):
To go back to the question about the.

Speaker 8 (01:31:17):
Distribution, and as I was then creating my own films
and distributing them in the US and advertising them and
you know Film Threat and Hugh Gallagher's Garrotica or Draculina Sorry,
and some of those other outlets, uh mostly myself and
Nick Zed kind of struck up a friendship and then

(01:31:40):
uh Nick asked whether I could go ahead and distribute
the Cinema Transgression pack that he had created, which was
primarily the compilation tape, and then his own films which
was Police State, and you know, there's the sets of
other ones that he was doing and through the same
through the same outlets in Europe that I was using.

(01:32:01):
And then that expanded to Cassandra Stark, so the films
that she had done we are not to blame, and
a couple of others. Then became so the distributors that
I had were now also distributing their films, and at
one point Nick said, I think in probably ninety ninety one,
he said, most of the income that I'm getting from

(01:32:22):
my films right now is coming from myself in Europe
because in a way, you know, he done a good
job promoting the New York scene in the mid eighties.
By the time I got involved, which is really the
tail end of that, it was almost like there was
a new audience in Europe that was following it, and
so I was sending him checks on a weeklier, monthly basis,

(01:32:43):
and it was interesting. Now the reality of what that
means for distributing, for those who probably I'm sure are
or are aware, is sitting at home with several VHS
recorders connected to each other, with a blank tape and
watching a counter while you're trying to get out with
daily life, to put the next tape in and hit record,
and next tape in and hit record, and then I'd

(01:33:05):
go to the photocopper shop and and photo copy the
you know, the artwork that he had given me and
write a label on it, and then you know, and
then send it out in the post. When somebody you
know sent you a check because there was no PayPal,
so it was really much, very much hands on. So
I was doing my own films and then doing Nix
and cassandras at the same time.

Speaker 2 (01:33:26):
Well it's probably it's probably time to get into the
your exciting work. But you know, just it's funny. I
grew up just because of you know, my age. I
guess I grew up really in the kind of skate
punk phase of punk rock's history if you look through
the history, so you know, and a lot of those
bands that I was listening to in the nineties are

(01:33:48):
still touring in Japan and Europe, even though they're they're
kind of not as popular in the US. I mean,
they'll they'll bring in two or three hundred people in
the US, but they'll go to Tokyo and have four
thousand people at a show. So it's just you never
know exactly where something's going to catch on.

Speaker 4 (01:34:05):
You know.

Speaker 8 (01:34:06):
It's funny you say that because the band that we
connected with when when we landed here was the Addicts,
and they're from the place I live, and I was
in band members with ours and bands with members and
back and forth and so forth. But they're the kind
of band who's relocated to the US, and we did.
We lived in LA for a short amount of time,

(01:34:27):
and you know, if they came back and played in Nips,
which they get, you know, a couple hundred people in
the local pub, right, but you know, they could play
South America and they play venues in LA. I was
surprised at how many addicts, you know, monkeys face on
leather jackets and stuff, and the two thousands still, so
it is interesting how those things more they kind of

(01:34:48):
move around and take on a new life of their own.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, I love it. Yeah, that's that's a
great shout out to the addicts as well. If anybody
doesn't know them, go check out their music. But so
you started creating films essentially with friends, right at least
in the in the beginning. I think the first thing

(01:35:12):
that I saw from you, and I don't know that
this is necessarily in order of how you made it,
but the first thing I saw from you was thoughts
from the White Wall, uh and then our own personal hell.
Those were the first two things I saw from you.
And the thing that struck.

Speaker 3 (01:35:32):
Me right away is your command of atmosphere.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
I just think, you know, even from because you know
the way, at least the way you told the story
in the documentary. I don't think you necessarily set out
to be a filmmaker, as much as films kind of
poured out of you as an expression of art. It's
kind of the impression that I got, but then you,
but then you took a liking to it and then

(01:35:59):
kind of down on it. Is it Is it fair
about kind of how you're feeling at the time.

Speaker 8 (01:36:03):
Yeah, I think that, Yeah, I think that's a fair
fair thing. I think probably the one thing that I
would encounter is that every film I made actually just
made with my friends, and I never really ever advertised
or seeked anybody to be involved necessarily that wasn't actually
already part of that social circle. So in a way,

(01:36:25):
what I was doing is also leaning on my friends
to do things, or to tell stories or be part
of activities on the screen, which you know, may or
may not be controversial, depending upon what your perspective is.
The first thing I did was Our Personal Hell, and
that was really just me and Phil Vain telling a
story about somebody who going through a very rough patch

(01:36:46):
in their life, had to make a decision about whether
do you do you stick it out or do you
not stick it out? And you'll notice that in the
in the film that's on the release that I've used
Einstra and Deny abouten and dissecting table, which is a
Japanese really harsh noise band. Because at first I didn't
really think about scoring the films with I was just

(01:37:10):
using found audio. Then I also then took that what
I learned from that I didn't have a tripod, so
the camera's really shaky. It was filmed on a right
after Christmas, about ten o'clock on a Sunday morning in
the freezing British weather, so there's a lot. I learned
an awful lot about just getting a tripod, for example,

(01:37:32):
or that don't try to edit as you film it,
but just film footage and then go edit it afterwards,
and you can film it two or three times. You
don't just get stuck with one take, which is exactly
what what our personal hell was. So each one was
a learning experience, but I was I think one of
the things I get is kind of get loosely linked
to the cinema of transgression, but you don't really seem

(01:37:54):
to have that shock value, and when you watch my films,
you realize I'm actually, like I said, I'm not really
although I appreciate horror and gore, but it's not really
what I film. I wasn't really also out to do
something very extreme and shocking as much as to create
I call it uncomfortable situations where morality has played out

(01:38:15):
to some level of an extreme circumstances. So a lot
of my films are kind of everyday occurrences but kind
of in an extreme way, or telling something around morality,
and that layering of an atmosphere is kind of how
I approached creating that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
Well, you're there's a lot of thoughtfulness I can tell.
I mean, you know, there's even just staying on your
own personal health for a moment. You know, I think
our own personal health. Excuse me, even just staying on
that for a moment, you know. I think what jumped
out at me for it being a relatively short film

(01:38:58):
was how immediately I kind of understood what was going
on without trying to remember. But I don't think any
dialogue at all.

Speaker 10 (01:39:05):
There was no dialogue in it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:07):
Yeah, and yet I immediately understood sort of the emotions
that the character was going through and there's quite you
mentioned uncomfortable. There's quite a sad moment in the film
at one point where you see at the time, you
don't know if it's a dream or a fantasy or real,

(01:39:31):
but you see this person making a you know, kind
of a very sad decision about their own life and
then going back and kind of reflecting on it, and
I think, you know, watching that play out, I just
felt a deep sadness, even though you know, ten minutes
before I didn't know that character. But so you kind
of immediately pulled me into this world and made me

(01:39:55):
care about this guy who was obviously going through something
and really contemplating his own existence and the importance of himself.
So I don't know, it just it was. It was
quite powerful. I was really, I don't want to say surprised,
but it was just really drawn in.

Speaker 8 (01:40:12):
Thanks for saying that, because that was exactly the intent
of it. And the reason and so that was that
was never really ever made available was on any of
the kind of three VHS tapes.

Speaker 10 (01:40:24):
And the two primary reasons.

Speaker 8 (01:40:27):
The first reason was because it was so early and
kind of cutting my teeth that although I thought it
emotionally told a story. It kind of didn't tell it
in a in a technical way.

Speaker 10 (01:40:39):
You know.

Speaker 8 (01:40:40):
I would have preferred to have did a couple more
and come back to that topic and then redone it again,
but it might not have turned out the same. The
second one is that because I used music from both
Noubauten and Dissecting Table, that when I when I got
to the next set of films, then I started to
score them with music written for the films, and then

(01:41:01):
I felt they took on a much more holistic kind
of intent as opposed to creating some visuals with a
story and then finding some found music that I thought.

Speaker 10 (01:41:12):
Would add to it.

Speaker 8 (01:41:13):
So that's that's the primary reason why that never came out,
And in a way I'm glad that by having that
come out, and interestingly in the in the Ipswitch scene,
because Phil Vaine, that scener was a near and dear
friend to all the punks in the area, as well
as being quite influential with Extreme Noise Tear passed away

(01:41:35):
quite a few years ago, and so when I did
a local screening of that, most people had never seen
it before, and it was quite a almost an emotional
touching thing because you could actually see this character. You
were at the pub every Friday and Saturday, physically walking
around the same environments that we used to walk around,
and quite a poignant moment moment, Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
Yeah, I can imagine, especially with what happens in the
film itself. That's crazy. You so outside. You know, you
had a few more shorts that we were separate from
your anthologies. We mentioned Thoughts from the White Walls, My
Funny Valentine, but what you you keep kind of referencing

(01:42:19):
these VHS tapes, So maybe we should talk about that.
So you've also created a series of anthologies, right, and
so that's featured on this disc, which is great. Do
you before we get into socium, maybe we can spend
a minute just on the anthology. So do you how
did those come about? Like how did you you know,

(01:42:39):
sort of get the idea for that and and and
initially make.

Speaker 8 (01:42:43):
Those I'll be honest that that idea came from buying
the VHS tapes from the probably Richard Kurrn really more
so than the others, because what I realized was that
if you're going to market and so the tape, she
need to have enough content on there to make it

(01:43:05):
make it, you know, add value, and I never really
wanted to make a ninety minute, sixty minute feature type thing.
I was really quite focused on making me these short
i'll call it a bit artistic that didn't really have dialogue,
but I could tell perhaps a complex story in five minutes,

(01:43:26):
eight minutes, twelve minutes, and kind of cut lots of
aspects out of it that were not necessarily immediately adding
to the story. So what I ended up doing is
collecting the first three films, which roughly added up to
thirty minutes, which seemed to be a reasonable amount of
time for a tape that kind of showed a theme,

(01:43:48):
but it also, you know, someone was going to spend
twenty dollars or whatever they happened to cost. Seemed to
be a reasonable amount of value for someone who might
want to consume it. Then, and then the next set
of films was at thirty minutes as well, which was
Dead Love, Jesus Hates You, and My Funny Valentine. And
then when I got to the last one, because it

(01:44:08):
was forty five minutes, it felt strong enough to just
set on its own. So the trilogies was really more
down to economy and making it interesting for someone to consume,
and there were some loose threads through it. Interestingly, they
weren't necessarily filmed in the order that they appear on
the VHS tapes, but they seem to work well. So
actually Jesus Hates You was filmed probably right after thoughts

(01:44:32):
from the White Walls, but actually I didn't formalize it
until the end. The other thing that had happened is
I had continued to use some music that wasn't self scored,
and one of them I used some music from Lydia
lunch from in Limbo that I thought worked really well.
And when I asked, and then I realized, if I

(01:44:52):
want to promote these and use other people's in music,
then I should make sure I got permission, and so
communicating with her, she was like, don't take it off,
but you know, ask in advance, and then I started
to think about it. I said, well, actually, it's a
really good point is to go and have someone watch

(01:45:12):
the films and then create the score as it happens.
And so that's also the reason the sequences of how
I filmed them isn't necessarily how they appeared. So the
band White Slug, which is where Jason Whittaker and that connection. Basically,
I completely took Jesus Hate You, which was called I
think Sins of the Flesh previously, re edited it looped,

(01:45:35):
it made it go faster and faster, and then had
them put their music on top of it. And the
bits with Jimmy Swagger and the cross were all parts
of the fabric of the music that they were creating,
and then that just layered right on top of it
with some extra imagery. So in a way that the
way the audio worked also dictated a bit how the

(01:45:56):
films got released on those trilogies.

Speaker 3 (01:45:59):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:46:02):
The thing that's very interesting in hearing you kind of
reflect on this is the creative process. You know, I
think it's a before we end, I want to ask
you know why you stop making films, But before we
get to that question, it's amazing to me because editing,
you know, you casually mentioned editing, but it's not the
same as just opening up and editing software. Now, I

(01:46:24):
mean you were you were in there with the tape
right cutting and pasting and.

Speaker 8 (01:46:29):
Yeah, yeah, you're right. Actually because I had two VHS
tapes and however quick you could hit play and Paul's
you know, is about as good as you could get
on a cut and trying. You know, I use movie
maker now and I could do far more stuff with
free movie maker that I could ever do there. What

(01:46:51):
I did realize is that I'd outgrown my ability to
edit the films pretty quickly, and I had to start
hiring an editing suite to do Cursium delectus, which you know,
I realized I've been pronouncing a cursium delectus since the
damn theme came out and whatever ninety one ninety two.
The realities it should be circium delectus because of the

(01:47:14):
Latin pronunciation. But I'm gonna stick with my mispronunciation. Uh,
it's your movie, Yeah, I know, but I but I
am even the actor and it pronounces it correctly Richard,
and but he has a he studied Latin. So when
I did that, I hired an editing suite to do that,
and I took Jesus Hates You, and I used an

(01:47:35):
editing suite because I was able to do the layering
of images on top of each other, like the Jimmy
Swagger and the burning Cross on top of that loop
I would I would not have been able to do
that with my two VCR tapes trying to stop, stop, start.
So each film became more complex and I tried to
do it better than the one before, which, you know,

(01:47:57):
I kind of stepped back and if I looked at
the quality of our personal our own personal hell with
the camera, shaky camera and stuff, then I looked at
Cursium Delectus. They were only filmed about two years apart,
but the leap of non dialogue, the dialogue, the camera angles,
the sound effects, the all of that, you know, you

(01:48:17):
could see the progression that was taking place, and that
kind of learning from my own perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:48:22):
Absolutely, Yeah, there's something to be said for just doing
the same thing multiple times and improving each time. It's
the momentum is obvious and the improvement is there. Let's
talk about Chrisium Delectus then, because you know, it's interesting
after seeing a lot of your shorts and anthologies then

(01:48:46):
to go into Cursium.

Speaker 3 (01:48:47):
It's a.

Speaker 2 (01:48:50):
It's a narrative and it's based on a true story,
and it has I mean, it's a it's it's very
well made. It's still I guess a short film, but
I mean it's pushing that feature length what is it
about forty two minutes or so?

Speaker 10 (01:49:08):
Yeah, it's just under forty five minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
So it's pushing that feature length time for sure. But
you tell an entire story here, So was that was
I'm assuming that there was a lot of kind of
writing and preparation for that, maybe more so than any
other work, or how was it making that?

Speaker 10 (01:49:27):
So that one.

Speaker 8 (01:49:30):
The story itself came out of head Press, which is
one of those magazines that was a huge supporter of myself,
and there was a big, a big piece this Douglas Clark,
Carol Bundy, Jack Murray's story of happening in Los Angeles
in nineteen eighty And the thing that I was very

(01:49:52):
interested in was around the perception of good and evil.
Who's the perpetrator? Who who isn't necessarily a nice character
but gets pulled under? That was the impetus for me
to make the film. And because it was such a
narrative story, unlike you know, some of the other ones

(01:50:13):
were either very artistic and free formed, like Jesus Hates
You and Thoughts from the White Walls, Good things happened
to those The Lord had a bit of this narrative
that was starting obey without really any dialogue. So it
was a big leap to be this narrative and the
planning to do this did take an extensive amount of time.

(01:50:35):
I would probably say it took me about a year
from the storyboarding, because I did storyboard with you know,
blank piece of paper with squares of where the camera
angles were as I tried to progress as a filmmaker.
The cast was quite large. Every single person in that
was a friend that you know. I asked, would you

(01:50:55):
like to do this? The lead actress, Lisa Carrell, had
never been in front of a camera before. And when
you make a non narrative film you can get away
with a lot of things when it comes to voice
and dialogue and projection and so forth.

Speaker 10 (01:51:10):
And then when you.

Speaker 8 (01:51:11):
Make a narrative film, you got to feel comfortable whomever
is going to project this emotion can do so in
a fairly realistic way, and so it required lots of planning.
We had to get proper microphone to record audio, which
wasn't perfect. We had to get little light light lamps

(01:51:32):
and flex things so it almost felt like a proper film.
Getting film locations which were just mates houses, and most
of it's gorilla filmmaking. We just kind of get in
on a Sunday morning film and we go out. So
it truly felt like making a film and in a
very laborious process. But I think it turned out very
well considering the limited funds, of the limited technical abilities,

(01:51:55):
and the fact that most of the people on the
camera never spoke in front of the camera before.

Speaker 2 (01:52:00):
Well, and I mean, just to you know, double on
that for a second, Lisa Carrell did a phenomenal job
because you you don't know at the beginning of the story,
you don't know exactly what's off about her, but you
can just feel something is kind of off. And then
so she conveys that emotion from the first maybe not
the first scene because she just is a sweet.

Speaker 10 (01:52:22):
Yeah you know, pick hitchhiker.

Speaker 2 (01:52:27):
Yeah, yeah, she's just being helpful. But then, I mean,
very quickly you see her kind of there's something off,
and as a story unfolds and you get to see
what's going on, and you just say, oh wow, she
actually does a phenomenal job in this, like she's she
really understood what was happening.

Speaker 8 (01:52:42):
It was interesting. So we did a screening a Nipswich
as A as A as A film release party, so
to speak, and the and the people who were involved attended,
and most of them had never really watched it since
it happened backed in the early nineties, and and Lisa
was there with her husband who had never seen it before.

(01:53:03):
And I had taken the forty five minute film because
I didn't think people were gonna want to sit through
forty five minutes, so I actually edited down to thirty
minutes and then showed a few of the other shorts
around it, so it wasn't too laborious. And to be fair,
it probably worked better in thirty minutes than forty five
but me just being very judicial, some cutting stuff out, okay,

(01:53:23):
And it was quite surprising. And her husband turned her
and said, you know, wow, I never would have expected,
you know, that you were able to just pull that
off with never having done it before, right, So yeah,
that worked out really well.

Speaker 2 (01:53:36):
That's definitely yeah. I mean everybody was strong. I mean,
even the main actor, Richard Nunn, is that right, Yes? Yeah,
even he was was perfect in the role. I mean,
you know, the casting was great, but I was just
I don't know. I guess her character probably had the
biggest arc or the biggest sort of change and she
nailed it.

Speaker 10 (01:53:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:53:57):
Yeah, she kind of has to carry it because it's
the way, if you think about it, you always have
this thing about the hitch hiker is going to be
the person who's gonna cause havoc, and there is this
element that he is the hitch hiker, and she picks
him up, she ends up causing the havoc, but at
the end of the film, he ends up being the
murder right. It ends up being self fulfilled prophecy. And so,

(01:54:22):
and the reason we'd use the van is because in
the real story of the Carol Bundy Douglas Clark, the
van is the crucial thing where a lot of bad
things were happening. And so that's why most of the
things that are filmed at least it's in that van,
because it's crucial to the real story.

Speaker 2 (01:54:43):
So yeah, you know, Richard, I just can't encourage enough
that people give this release from Saturn's Court chance. And
like you said, Heather does a great job with the
commentary and the writing on it from everybody who's involved
is very personal and I think shed some light on
this in a really great way. So it's a good

(01:55:06):
release and it is selling fast. I mean, it's only
as of the time we're recording, there's only three hundred
copies left, so you know, it's not going to be
there forever. And I think it's one that people would
be happy they owned, if, you know, once they discover it.
So I really would push people to give this a chance.

(01:55:27):
I'm just curious, and I don't know if this is
something that you know. I hope this isn't a sensitive
topic by any means, but I'm just wondering. You obviously
have a knack for storytelling and a knack for visual storytelling.
Is there a particular reason you got out of it?

Speaker 8 (01:55:46):
Yeah, I think it was a combination of things, actually
all call Essie. At the same time, for those who
don't live in the UK, or especially at that particular
time period, there's a lot of pressures around a thing
called video nasties and that's where it was illegal to
distribute films that were not classified by the British Board

(01:56:10):
of Film Classifications BBFC. And I could film what I
wanted to film, but trying to distribute them within the
UK ended up becoming quite problematic, and there was a
police rated Manchester and one of my tapes was held
up on a raid for types of films that that

(01:56:30):
you know, we were part of this, even though my
films are not extreme by any means, and in the
kind of that that kind of gore field that that
became a pressure. A friend of mine ended up being
imprisoned for the distribution films a bit more of an
S and M nature, but it was still the key
key tenant of that, the film with Douglas Clark. As

(01:56:55):
soon as it was released, I got a letter from
San Quentin death Row from Douglas and that embarked upon
us several year. I guess kind of relationship around his
case and life on death row that got very complicated.
He ended up going into solitary confinement based upon some
collateral that was being sent back and forth between us.

(01:57:18):
I started to get legal letters from his lawyers, so
I had this kind of pressure. It wasn't just making
underground films and distributed him on VHS tape. There's this
other drama that's going on behind. At the same time,
within my family had a young daughter who was two
years old. I was working a night shift on a

(01:57:40):
military base, and I've got quite an obsessive personality, so
as each of these films and these short amount of
time became more complicated, and at the look and when
you looked at Cursiom Delectus and how long that took
and planning and storyboarding. If I wasn't filming, I was
thinking about filming. And at the end of the day,

(01:58:00):
all of that pressure really wasn't fair on my family
relationship with with Sophie and and so forth. So you know,
it came to a point where I had just put
things on hold and go back to the things that
were really important in my life. And I think because
filmmaking was something I kind of drifted into on the

(01:58:21):
on the backside of punk rock and music, it you know,
it then became an all consuming burning flame to the
point where I kind of got blinded by lots of
other things that are going on in my life. And
it was time to put that flame out and then
go back and you know, really go back to be
the husband, father, you know, all that stuff that I

(01:58:42):
that I you know, that I enjoy being and continue
to do. I still playing in a band called Earth
Motherfucker that I was playing with since the mid eighties,
and and and I still do that. There's a huge
visual aspect of that, we played with visual projections and
that are quite core raft to to the to the
to the music and stuff, and that's always fun to do.

(01:59:05):
So it's it. That's why it was quite interesting that
such a long period of time had taken place with
no real activity in the filmmaking front. That finally Ross
found me, and he found me through Vincent Elberono, who
had found me because of the band EMF and he
ended up kind of tracking me down through that and

(01:59:25):
that's kind of how that whole connection started.

Speaker 3 (01:59:27):
So oh wow, Okay, that's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:59:32):
Well, it's obvious here a creative spirit at heart, and
I'm very glad these films were restored and this retrospective
is out to be viewed. And yeah, I just thank
you for taking the time here. I don't know that
I have any other questions. I think that's a really
good introduction to you and your work. Is there is

(01:59:56):
there anything that I missed asking you that you'd want
to talk about?

Speaker 10 (02:00:00):
No, I think I think that covers it.

Speaker 8 (02:00:02):
I think, if you know, if I follow on from
the you know, I did this as a as a
blast of activity for over about a maybe four four
year period from around eighty nine to maybe ninety four,
let's say about five years. You know, I look back
on it with you know, pride that I was able
to create us, with this group of individuals who you know,

(02:00:24):
just wanted to basically go out, have fun, be challenging,
create some you know, thought provoking content. And you know,
like I said, it's a little bit of a time
for me, it's a bit of a time capsule of
what my life was like back at that point in time,
because once we got done doing a film scene, we'd
go to the pub, we'd go to a gig, we'd

(02:00:45):
have a dinner or you know whatever, and so it
was just what our life was like at that point
in time. And you know, life just kind of moves on,
and so it's been a nice opportunity to me to
go back and reflect on it. And the other thing
that I think is quite another positive is its kind
of opened up myself into a whole new community of
new directors and even acquainting with ones that I'd never

(02:01:08):
connected with. So Charles Pinion is a great example where
both myself and him kind of sat on the fringes
of this cinema transgression and Jack Sargent wrote a great
book That's Tripping that talks about that scene, and both
of us are in that book.

Speaker 10 (02:01:22):
But we've never really met each other.

Speaker 8 (02:01:24):
But through the release of my films and I know
twisted issues in his work, we've connected. And I've also
since connected with Bruce Longo from the Bloodsick Productions team,
and interestingly we both you know, he filmed a corpse
for Christmas in twenty twenty three based upon exactly the

(02:01:45):
same Bundy Clark case that I filmed Curcium Delectus. He
took a different perspective of it, and literally last night
he had a film screening and I created a short
little feature piece as an advert in it. And one
of the things that happened with Douglas Clark is that

(02:02:05):
I had recorded Douglas down the phone line for a
film soundtrack project, which unfortunately never got released, and I
included some of the dialogue that we had recorded with
Doug on top of the film clips from Cursium Delecta.
So it was quite interesting to virtually be part of
a film screening in Philly last night, and I think
it's going to be in Los Angeles later in December.

(02:02:27):
So in a way, it's connecting with a new set
of filmmakers, connecting with some old filmmakers who I hadn't
really had a personal relationship with, and kind of understanding
what's out there on the SOOV market, because, like I said,
I wasn't familiar with Vinegar Syndrome, and when I look
at the titles, you know, I haven't heard any of them.
To be fair, I just watched Flush Freaks this past week,
which I thought was really entertaining, and I really liked

(02:02:49):
the work of Pentagrast And actually, what I like about
Ross is it's not just that film, it's what are
the shorts, What are the other things you've done? And
actually some of the shorts that Pendergrass has done is
really really great work. Nothing like Fresh Freaks, but actually
really interesting and thought provoking. And so that whole package
is quite a in exciting. It's almost like re exploring

(02:03:11):
now a whole new set of films that I that
you know, that I wouldn't have thought of exploring otherwise.

Speaker 3 (02:03:17):
Yeah, I mean, some.

Speaker 2 (02:03:18):
People call it s OV regional filmmaking. You've used the
term underground filmmaking for your work, and they all, they
all kind of are getting at the same idea, which
is just this.

Speaker 3 (02:03:30):
You know, if you if you have an.

Speaker 2 (02:03:33):
Idea and you have a camera, you can go kind
of make the story you want, right And I love
that spirit and the ones that are interesting and compelling
will typically be found and by somehow and restored and preserved.
Now because you know, not only Ross, but Vinegar Syndrome
has several labels focused on s OV and there's companies

(02:03:55):
like Visual Vengines that are out there seeking as well,
even outside of the Vinegar Syndrome world. So yeah, it's
a fun time. I think to be a fan of
underground filmmaking. I think it's getting a lot of attention.
And it's another reason I was so thrilled to have
you on and kind of talk about your journey, because
there's I love your story and I think the film

(02:04:17):
speak for themselves.

Speaker 8 (02:04:18):
So Richard, thank you very much Chris for having me
come on and kind of talk about that past to
really appreciate it and hopefully hopefully all resonate with your
viewers and hope everyone has a happy Holidays and get
more DVDs and films under the Christmas Tree.

Speaker 10 (02:04:37):
To watch in the years ahead.

Speaker 3 (02:04:38):
Richard, thank you so much.

Speaker 10 (02:04:41):
Thank you, thank you. Chris.

Speaker 2 (02:04:45):
Okay, well, kind of in the spirit of end of
the year reviews and kind of interviewer discussions, I thought
I would join Celeste de Laicabra for the fifteen Minutes
with You segment this time, and I don't think since
it's an end of the year, I don't know if
we're going to be necessarily beholden to it actually fifteen minutes,
but we'll see how it goes.

Speaker 3 (02:05:06):
Celeste, thanks for letting me jump in.

Speaker 11 (02:05:09):
Yeah, of course, thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:05:11):
Yeah, of course. I have to ask you right out
of the gate, what is it?

Speaker 3 (02:05:15):
How much? What percentage of your music listening is the
smith Oh?

Speaker 4 (02:05:20):
Boy?

Speaker 9 (02:05:22):
So they were my favorite band for like five years.
When I was sixteen, I really got into them and
it was like life changing for me, and just well
into college, just the Morrissey and the Smiths were like
a mainstay. I think if you look at my last
FM statistics, both of them are still in the top ten.

(02:05:43):
But since graduating college, I think it is just been
a case of Morrissey's antics kind of souring it, and
it's just finding other things that kind of scratch that itch,
like Soufhiyn Stevens in the magnetic fields, that kind of thing,
and it just it's not ever something that I'm gonna

(02:06:05):
fully excize from my listening or my life or anything
like that. But it's just not something that I go
to a return to with the frequency that I used to.
I mean, I guess there's also just how many times
can you listen to like what five records over and
over and over again.

Speaker 11 (02:06:23):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 9 (02:06:24):
I've seen Morrissey live like four times something like that.
Like it was really a big deal for me for
a while, and then I think one day I think
he I think it was when he was like defending
Kevin Spacey and then after that, like doing COVID Conspiracy.

Speaker 11 (02:06:36):
I was just like, I think I've had enough of this,
like and that just kind of said enough of that,
and then you know, he comes back every once in
a while.

Speaker 9 (02:06:44):
It's just it's it's kind of like an abusive relationship
being a Morrissey fan, to be honest.

Speaker 2 (02:06:50):
But I think that kind of fits somehow with the
whole ethos of like, you know, the the emo kind
of ethos that you're in an abusive relationship.

Speaker 3 (02:07:01):
I feel like that's it's like part and Parcelo with
the lifestyle.

Speaker 4 (02:07:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (02:07:06):
Yeah, his last few records haven't been that good either,
so that kind of makes it easier to walk away
a little bit. But I don't know, it's it's it's
always going to be there to some extent.

Speaker 2 (02:07:18):
You were you were talking about Sophia and Stevens a
minute ago. I that was. I can't remember which album
it was on. I think it was Illinois, but the
one that the song he had about ed Geen.

Speaker 11 (02:07:29):
Mm hmm is just John Wayne Gacy junior.

Speaker 3 (02:07:32):
Oh, John Wayne Gacy.

Speaker 4 (02:07:33):
I'm sorry, it's.

Speaker 9 (02:07:34):
So devastating, I guess, such a fucking good songs.

Speaker 3 (02:07:37):
Such an amazing piece of songwriting.

Speaker 11 (02:07:39):
Yeah, oh my god, I remember because he's on.

Speaker 3 (02:07:42):
It's very Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's haunting. Uh. And
like I remember, at the time he.

Speaker 2 (02:07:48):
Came out, I was still I was still identifying as
a Christian and like going to church and things like that,
and he was such a controversial figure because he was
like he kind of came up that way, but his
lyrics were so deep and thoughtful, and the church just
really wasn't used to that, and he had like nuance
in his lyrics, and that just confused everybody, and yeah,

(02:08:09):
he was probably. I don't think he continues to call
himself at Christian if I remember a so I.

Speaker 11 (02:08:15):
Think he does.

Speaker 9 (02:08:18):
So as a recent convert, as it were, to the
music of Suke and Stevens. A lot of this stuff
was pretty unclear until his newest record came out and
he made that post about his late partner, because he
wasn't explicitly out as gay or bisexual until then, And

(02:08:38):
there was also like lyrics on his last few records
that kind of suggested that he was walking away from
the Christian thing. But he put out the statement and
like it ended with like some very Christian stuff, and
there's some very Christian messaging on the new album and everything,
and okay, okay, So it's just it's really interesting to
have a figure that is in the public I as

(02:09:00):
like being so devoutly Christian but also very obviously gay,
you know, right, Yeah, is that inherent tension that I
think is explored really well in that song in particular.

Speaker 3 (02:09:11):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (02:09:13):
Yeah, and him and there's another guy named Pedro the Lion,
who was equally kind of thoughtful, and I'm pretty sure
he left, But those were the two kind of singer
songwriters that were like it was. It was interesting to
discuss them with people they were active in the in
the Christian Church because they didn't know how to handle it.
They were always just like, I don't know, like I

(02:09:33):
don't know what he's talking about. It seems like I
shouldn't like him.

Speaker 3 (02:09:36):
I don't know why.

Speaker 9 (02:09:38):
It was that fun Facebook page, I think, And it's like,
is Soufi and Stevens talking about a man or about
like is it gay or is it Christian? Like that,
because his lyrics can work either way. When he's kind
of he's kind of exploiting that element of a lot
of church music, where like if you just pretend that
it's about a man instead of God, it really does

(02:09:58):
just kind of sound like gay love song that He's
just like, I could just do that, you know, make
a career.

Speaker 3 (02:10:03):
Out of it. That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (02:10:06):
Well, I think a conversation about the Christian Church is
the perfect lead in into the hub.

Speaker 3 (02:10:13):
That we're talking about today of all the hardcore titles in.

Speaker 2 (02:10:19):
The Vinegar Syndrome and Melosines back catalog, because statistically that's
where most of the people that are watching porn are
coming from anyways, right but yeah, so you very graciously. Wait,
I can't even know it was your idea right initially
to do.

Speaker 9 (02:10:39):
This, Yeah, because I saw that you were doing all
the titles and I was like, well, you're not doing
the hardcore titles, how come? And you were like, look,
I gotta call it at some point, and I was like,
that's so valid.

Speaker 11 (02:10:49):
These there's so.

Speaker 9 (02:10:50):
Many and I was just like, man, somebody should do this,
Like somebody should take up the mantle for this stuff,
because like maybe, as we'll discuss later, it does seem
to be kind of undervalued and underappreciated and unloved compared
to a lot of the stuff on the proper site.
And you know, it's something that I've been getting into regardless, uh,

(02:11:11):
sort of listening.

Speaker 11 (02:11:12):
To the Realita Report podcast and.

Speaker 9 (02:11:15):
Getting the releases every now and then and trying to
just learn more about this stuff. And so it seemed
like the perfect opportunity to kind of formalize that self
education and maybe take others along the way, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:11:28):
Quick quick love for the Realta Report. Oh my god,
like a college level course.

Speaker 9 (02:11:34):
It's like it's like NPR but for like fucking degenerates.
You know, it's so good.

Speaker 11 (02:11:39):
Yeah, it's like this American life or something.

Speaker 2 (02:11:42):
You know, it's right, Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (02:11:47):
It is incredible. So I'm going to try to get
them on at some point in an eram Man.

Speaker 11 (02:11:51):
That'd be so good.

Speaker 2 (02:11:52):
Yeah, I just I don't know if I mean, I
have no idea if they're available, but I think it
makes the most sense to bring them on for the
Valentine's Day episodes, So I'm hoping that work.

Speaker 3 (02:12:01):
I would love to try to get that in, so
we'll see if we can line that up.

Speaker 2 (02:12:06):
But I'm so glad you did this. I mean, I
think it was interesting hearing the first segment. You very
quickly got it into a form and a shape that
I think is very digestible. So well done on creating
something that I think is is a part I always
look forward to hearing.

Speaker 3 (02:12:22):
On these episodes.

Speaker 11 (02:12:23):
Thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (02:12:25):
Yeah, of course, did you When did you really start?
Like because like Vinegar Syndrome was kind of an interesting
history with with porn or with adult titles, because that's
sort of how they started, right The very first release
was the Herschel Gordon Lewis the Lost the Lost films.
But I think even before they but like throughout their

(02:12:46):
history they've always had a lot of adult titles kind
of mixed in and then and some that are maybe
like poor and adjacent. Yeah, and so it's it was
an interesting decision to split off and make this whole
Melosine side. And now I kind of think of it
as a partner label. How do you even think about melosine?

Speaker 11 (02:13:09):
Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 9 (02:13:10):
Like when I talked to Justin on the first segment
that I was on here, he said that pretty much
all of the labels on the Melusine site except for
Pulse and AGFA, the ones that are also partner labels
on the VS site, he said that they're all technically
just like imprints of Vinegar Syndrome. So I've been struggling

(02:13:31):
with how to think about that and kind of my
own mental categorization or whatever.

Speaker 11 (02:13:37):
But he said that.

Speaker 9 (02:13:37):
It's all done in house, and like it's their restorations
and like, but it's just like an internal collaboration, I guess,
especially with Distrippicks, which also exists on the Vineger Syndrome
site and is listed as a sub label along with
Cinematograph and VSP and VSZ and all the others you know,

(02:13:58):
yeah exactly, So I'm not I'm still not entirely sure
the precise relationship of like Quality X and Command Cinema,
and I think there's at least one more to the
VS branding per se. But I think of it. I mean,
they call it the Sisters site, and that's sort of
how I think about it. It's but like Melosee in particular,

(02:14:20):
I just think about as a VS sub label, just
on a just in a different home. I guess, yeah,
you know. I know that a lot of people had
been wondering why they did this in the first place,
and there had been guesses, but our mutual friend Ryan
Verell finally just asked Joe Rubin on his most recent interview,

(02:14:42):
and he said that what it was was a lot
of credit card processors and everything. We're like, we're not
doing this stuff, you know, So they had to they
had to make a decision to like they could negotiate
like credit card rates, I guess, or like percentages or what.

Speaker 11 (02:14:58):
I don't know how the business side.

Speaker 9 (02:14:59):
Works, but essentially, like they were losing money hosting it
on the same site because people were charging like PayPal
and all these other places. I guess we're charging more
to have that stuff there, so to have it separately,
they could just kind of have them in separate buckets and.

Speaker 4 (02:15:14):
Like kind of.

Speaker 9 (02:15:16):
It wouldn't have to kind of get in the way
of negotiations on the other stuff. And you know, when
it first happened, I think a lot of people who
really value this stuff were kind of like, oh, it
feels like we're kind of turning it into the black
sheep of the company, like making it separate and everything.
And I think it was Oscar who said, like, no,

(02:15:38):
it's going to be great. It's gonna be an opportunity
to like do more of this stuff. And I think
that that has been true and that there's way more
hardcore releases coming out. But I do wonder if there
has been a hit in visibility and in sales because
of the separation there.

Speaker 11 (02:15:57):
That was a big tangent.

Speaker 9 (02:15:58):
And I think you were asking me how I started
to get into these titles, So maybe I'll steer us
back there.

Speaker 2 (02:16:04):
Oh no, actually, let's just go there now that you
opened it, because I think this is a really interesting topic, right,
Like they vinegar syndrome has this weird, we're very fascinating
magnetic effect where once a month at least. There's thousands
of people that go onto their site around the same
time and just buy whatever's on the site. Right, and

(02:16:27):
it's like there's some titles like The Keep recently sold out.
The limited edition sold out in like twelve thousand copies,
sold out in like three hours or something.

Speaker 9 (02:16:36):
It was a little over twelve I think, or twelve
it was. I think it was a I think it
was thirteen hours. I think it was a record. Whatever
the number was, it was a new record, which is.

Speaker 3 (02:16:45):
Wild insane for twelve thousand copies of the and like
but the and there's.

Speaker 11 (02:16:50):
Always at a premium price too.

Speaker 9 (02:16:52):
It wasn't a ten dollars movie, you know, it's like
fifty bucks or something.

Speaker 2 (02:16:56):
Absolutely, and that's and there's a there was a title
that was good. There was one hundred to Beaver's. That
was the one I was thinking of.

Speaker 11 (02:17:01):
Oh my god, sold out in.

Speaker 9 (02:17:04):
Yeah, it's sold out of that. It's sold out of
the Standard. They restocked over two thousand units of the Standard.
And I looked the other day and it's sold out again.
That's fucking crazy. I haven't seen that happen yet.

Speaker 2 (02:17:17):
It's like the Morvious effect where there is no real
reason for people to love that as much as they did.

Speaker 3 (02:17:22):
It became like a meme.

Speaker 2 (02:17:25):
But yeah, I think there's I think the keep is
the one that's going to have an imprint release, so
there's a way to get at least if you just
don't want to pay eBay rates for it. But it's
kind of an interesting cultural study, right. I mean, I
don't know how many collectors there actually are, but it
seems like there's at least twelve thousand.

Speaker 11 (02:17:45):
That seems to be the minimum, right, Yeah, which.

Speaker 2 (02:17:48):
Is a bigger number than I would have expected. So
you know, they're they're they're kind of I think everybody
who collects physical media kind of knows about venger syndrome.

Speaker 3 (02:17:56):
Now it seems that way. Anyways.

Speaker 2 (02:17:58):
I mean, there's always going to be the people that
are shopping at the five dollars bin in Walmart, and like,
you know, much love to those people, and they have
YouTube channels bragging about the deals they find in stuff
and like that's awesome, But that's not that's not really
kind of what we're talking about, right. That's different from
like the library kind of mentality. I think that that
Vineyards really promotes, but for some reason for anybody who's

(02:18:23):
not affiliated with vinegar Syndrome, unless you have an incredibly
strong brand like Severin Arrow, Mondo Macabro, like, unless you
have a dedicated fan based on like a super loyal brand.
I think they're kind of like they're making it difficult
to be a boutique label a little bit right now,
where they.

Speaker 9 (02:18:41):
Are kind of monopolizing the industry a little bit, which
makes me slightly nervous.

Speaker 11 (02:18:46):
But it seems to be a good thing for now.

Speaker 2 (02:18:48):
So we'll see, I know, yeah, yeah, I go back
and forth on that because you know, we have the
subscription coming up here in uh In, I guess roughly
two weeks from when we're recording, and I'll do it
again obviously.

Speaker 3 (02:19:01):
I mean it makes sense with the podcasts sense for you. Yeah,
it would be weird if I didn't see any of
the movies.

Speaker 2 (02:19:09):
But I don't know, like I don't I'm not above
if I feel like they're just becoming a studio, Like
if they just become twenty four, I don't know, Like
that's not as super interesting to me. I kind of
like the underground nature of where they were, you know,
for a while, so h something I'm always balancing.

Speaker 9 (02:19:25):
Yeah, I think, hmm, there's maybe some sketchy stuff going
on on the business and marketing side of things that
leave a bad taste in my mouth, But in terms
of the actual work they're doing, I don't think we're
at the point where they've sold out or like rejected
their mission or anything like that.

Speaker 11 (02:19:43):
Like, I mean, The Keep is a big movie, but.

Speaker 9 (02:19:44):
It's also like that was a big deal, like people
have been wanting that for a long time, and like
I don't know, these VSU titles that are just like
really big studio pictures, but they're also like kind of
maligned like schlocky dumb movies that like a lot of
people would just say that movie sucks, and then you
know VS is like, no, it actually rules. We're gonna
give it the sixty dollars treatment or whatever, you know,

(02:20:07):
which is still kind of a underground ethos sort of
thing going on. But like if you can have that,
and like, fucking what was the one the weird like
heavy metal snow horror movie that came out of the
same blood tracks, Yeah, I mean, as long as that
stuff is still coming out too, I don't think there's
really like, come on, how many people have really seen
that or like would drop thirty bucks on it where

(02:20:29):
it not for this sort of.

Speaker 11 (02:20:33):
Kind of excellent.

Speaker 9 (02:20:34):
Branding and convincing of the average person to give weirdo schlock.

Speaker 11 (02:20:39):
B movies a chance.

Speaker 4 (02:20:40):
You know.

Speaker 9 (02:20:41):
Well, I mean and like, as long as mel You'
scene exists, period, Like, as long as they are still
giving a spotlight and nice restorations and nice slip covers
and everything to just hardcore films. I mean, nobody else
does that. So yeah, I mean, well, okay, there's a few.

Speaker 11 (02:20:56):
I think eighty eight is.

Speaker 9 (02:20:57):
Doing some some more pornographic stuff over there, but like
really it's very few that are even willing to entertain
that much less have their own website for it. You know,
So as long as that exists, like I'm not going
to accuse them of like selling out or anything, you know,
just anything. I think is kind of cool that like
that and Roadhouse can exist in the same warehouse.

Speaker 4 (02:21:17):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:21:19):
I was just about to say, I mean, like getting
that that most recent forgotten jelly set number seven m
those movies are fucking amazing, Like Mystare and Obsession Taste
for fear, It's gonna make all my lists of like
the top movies I've seen this year, Like they're just
amazing films, but like totally underseen and like the fact
that they're putting that stuff out like I'm all in,

(02:21:41):
I'm just I'm just like watching closely, like Okay, I
don't know, like it feels like in a weird spot,
you know. But but then yeah, I mean, do you
be able to go buy a stantel Ackerman and then
blood tracks at the same click. The website is amazing, right,
but it's pretty wild. Yeah, But then for the milosine titles,
I don't know. I think it's kind of falling in

(02:22:01):
at least from the outside perspective, it's kind of seems
like it's falling into that like Fun City maybe as
much as I am said to say that, or like
even Terror Vision, although they're doing their own thing, and
I think they're growing in base, which is great, but
there is a dip when you leave.

Speaker 4 (02:22:17):
Right mm hmm. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (02:22:19):
Yeah, It's like even I will forget to check some months.
I'll just be like, oh, yeah, I gotta go look
at that too. I mean, now it's not going to
happen because I have like a job reviewing them now,
But like beforehand, it was like, oh, I just kind
of forgot about it. Let me go see what's going
on over there, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:22:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (02:22:34):
And I mean if you're a regular buyer, like I
have people in my in my Discord and my Patreon
that are like real hardcore enthusiasts of this sort of thing,
and so they're always checking. But like for the type
of person who would buy it every once in a while,
I think you're going to be less likely to remember
to go check when you're so excited about the literally
thirty titles.

Speaker 11 (02:22:54):
Being announced over on the proper site.

Speaker 3 (02:22:56):
You know, just wild, ye, it is wild.

Speaker 2 (02:22:59):
But let's let's talk about that for a second. Because
they have they have had two releases, the Melows Seen Itself,
the label itself, not the website, but the label has
had two roots this year, right, yes, and they're both movies.
It's interesting hearing you talk about them, Sam Degan talk
about them. Anybody that actually sees these movies, it's like,

(02:23:21):
what this is amazing? So it was Blind Ambition was
the first one, right, and then this recent one was
the Alice.

Speaker 11 (02:23:30):
In Wonderland one through the Looking Glasses.

Speaker 2 (02:23:33):
The Looking Glass. I don't know if it's actually also
Wonderland didn't. But your description.

Speaker 11 (02:23:35):
It's inspired, clearly, but it's not like that, you.

Speaker 2 (02:23:40):
Know, Okay, yeah, what you sold me hard on through
the looking Glass, so I need to see that. I'm
sorry I didn't get to do it before we spoke.
But you loved it, right that.

Speaker 11 (02:23:52):
It's great. It's so fascinating.

Speaker 9 (02:23:54):
It actually ties into our discussion on Sufi and Stevens
as like a kind of religious person and making.

Speaker 11 (02:24:00):
Subversive art where it was wild. Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 9 (02:24:05):
I don't know again, I said it in my review,
but everybody just pull up the Real to Report interview.
It is on the disc, but it's also on their
RSS feed for free, and just listen to that because
it's so fascinating, just honestly, just by the release, like
it sold less than two thousand units so far, and
it should be higher than that. Like it's a really
important film in the history of this sort of thing.

(02:24:27):
And if you're like a real I don't know, if
you're in the real freak shit, like if you like
the crazier stuff on like Severin and Mondo Macabro and
vinegar syndrome and stuff like, that's gonna be up your alley,
Like it just is I feel very confident about that.

Speaker 11 (02:24:43):
And yeah, I mean speaking of the Reality Report and
Year in Review.

Speaker 9 (02:24:47):
Like one thing that they've done that I'm really excited
about is officially start collaborating with them, which is like,
I can't believe it took that long for that to happen, because,
like I mean, Ashley West is like the guy, he's
like the guy you want to go.

Speaker 3 (02:24:58):
To for this sort of stuff.

Speaker 11 (02:25:00):
It has the connections and can make.

Speaker 9 (02:25:01):
It happen, you know, So I anticipate the quality to
just go even higher.

Speaker 11 (02:25:09):
So yeah, I'm excited about that.

Speaker 2 (02:25:12):
Yeah, I mean you were talking about the eighty eight
film stuff. Are you talking about the Roman porno stuff
that they're putting out now?

Speaker 11 (02:25:17):
Yeah, I think so, okay, because.

Speaker 2 (02:25:19):
Those those are wild, Like if you ever get a
chance to see any of those there, this Matt it's
like a it's.

Speaker 3 (02:25:25):
Very similar to.

Speaker 2 (02:25:27):
Almost like a like a Fellini satir con or like
a Caligula, but because they don't actually have penetration in
those movies, because it was kind of like not a
thing in Japan really, but they're they're you know, softcore,
I guess you could say it like that, but they're
extremely elaborate and like really super entertaining.

Speaker 3 (02:25:48):
So so looking beyond melosine.

Speaker 2 (02:25:50):
Well, I mean, actually, I guess, just in case anybody
hasn't heard you brag about Blonde Ambition, I don't know
if you want to spend thirty seconds on that, because
you love that one as well, right.

Speaker 11 (02:26:00):
I liked that one maybe even more.

Speaker 9 (02:26:03):
It is just a classic Hollywood screwball comedy but with
sex scenes in it, and it's great. It's it looks beautiful.
It's really well made. Shot by ROBERTA. Finley and directed
by I'm forgetting their names, but they are two brothers
who are both gay and shooting straight porn.

Speaker 11 (02:26:24):
It's just so it's got that like.

Speaker 9 (02:26:25):
Kind of like like musical camp sensibility to it.

Speaker 11 (02:26:29):
You know, it's just so much fun. It's so great
a Mirro is that right?

Speaker 9 (02:26:33):
The ameros, Yeah that sounds right, John and lem ameer
mm hmm, that sounds right.

Speaker 2 (02:26:40):
And yeah you're right. Oh they even got Roberta Finley
for the commentary. That's awesome.

Speaker 9 (02:26:44):
M and I was showing you before we hit record.
But if anybody doesn't have these releases yet, I mean
they are my pick for like the nicest packaging out
right now.

Speaker 4 (02:26:53):
It's just so.

Speaker 9 (02:26:56):
Uh lavish and deluxe and unique and they're just really cool.
So yeah, I'm just hoping to see more of those
next year, especially like because they seem to be holding
space for like the real bangers.

Speaker 11 (02:27:11):
On that line.

Speaker 9 (02:27:13):
So like some of these bigger films that haven't had
big releases, like The Devil and Miss Jones or Deep
Throat or something like that, like some of these real
big ones, it'd be nice to see them get chunky
additions in this line and everything.

Speaker 3 (02:27:27):
You know they like them thick.

Speaker 2 (02:27:30):
I guess, yeah, I mean I guess by these first
two releases, so they continue to get more then.

Speaker 9 (02:27:37):
Well, there's one more that came out last year called
The Tailor Tiffany Less that was really good too, but
I don't think that one's as popular. But I really
liked it's It's just got this like beautiful New York
City cinematography to it and a really fun conceit And
I've really just enjoyed all of the films that are
on that line.

Speaker 3 (02:27:56):
Honestly. That's great.

Speaker 2 (02:27:59):
If you go on the actual Melosine website, they released
from a few different companies, it seems like the one
the company that gets the most releases outside of well
really the most releases overall, because Melosine doesn't get that many,
but Quality X seems to be the largest quantity of releases.

Speaker 3 (02:28:21):
And that was do you know much about them? That
was actually a studio I think for a while, right.

Speaker 9 (02:28:25):
I don't know much of anything about them off the
top of my head and double checking, but I don't think.

Speaker 11 (02:28:34):
Hmmm, yeah, I didn't get.

Speaker 9 (02:28:38):
Or watch any of these. I did the two for December.
I have both of those on the way, so I
will be popping my cherry with Quality X, so to speak.
I was trying to think of a less obvious metaphor,
but that was just the one, you know, So we'll
see how that goes. But yeah, I don't know anything
about them, to be honest.

Speaker 2 (02:29:00):
Okay, Passions of Carol and Alexandra or the two that
I think that are coming out this month. Let's see
how are they selling? Yeah, they're selling. Okay, I think
it seems like for everything is so if you you know,
I don't know if you notice if you ever think
of like this, but if you go to the VS
website like the day, like on the first or the

(02:29:20):
second and kind of buy stuff. You can see that
other than the stuff that's like flying off the shelf.
The average release, you know, gets like three hundred right away,
and then some of them will get like six seven
hundred within the first day, and then the partner labels,
it seems like a good day for them is like
around maybe five hundred or so, and then they just

(02:29:42):
kind of trickle down from there. So it looks like,
I mean, this one has already sold about seven hundred,
so I guess it's kind of in line with that.

Speaker 4 (02:29:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (02:29:53):
Yeah, they do seem to sell about like somewhere in
the middle of what you could expect a partner label
to sell. But like there's really not a release on
the site that just sells out on the day one
or anything like that. You know, they don't really have
that because I feel like there's a ceiling to the
amount of people who are like looking for this, and
I'm hoping to help change that expand that a little bit,
but it seems her right now it's hard for them

(02:30:17):
to sell more than two thousand copies of something like this.

Speaker 2 (02:30:22):
Yeah, I wonder if if they just stick to it
for a few years.

Speaker 3 (02:30:28):
I mean, because even Vinegar Syndrome.

Speaker 2 (02:30:29):
When they first came out there are limited releases, were
one thousand, maybe two thousand, you know, now they're up
to twelve. So maybe it's a matter of getting that,
like just sticking with it and getting people drawn over there,
like you said, and promoting them like that, because yeah,
it's I think quality ex God, I'm trying to remember
this now, but I remember doing research on this. I
think there's a tie into a distributing distribution company in

(02:30:52):
the in New York called like Mature Pictures or something,
but I don't know.

Speaker 9 (02:31:00):
Yep, all presented in homage to its namesake of esteemed
New York film distributor Mature Pictures, the company which almost
single handedly raise the bar for outstanding sex films and
whose films are be included in this fittingly elegant collection.

Speaker 2 (02:31:13):
Yeah, I wonder we need I need to do a
deep dive into that. I'm just always curious because my
favorite thing about Vinegar Syndrome, if you just look across there,
like their values, I guess is that it seems like
quality X lines up perfectly with what they want to do,
which is taking these movies that are at risk of

(02:31:34):
being of getting actual vinegar syndrome or like degrading past
the point of being watchable and like kind of making
them available for another hundred years for people, right or
however long the digital files will last. So you know,
to think about like everything I've heard about when Bill
Lustig especially talks about I think it's forty Second Street

(02:31:55):
that where all those porn theaters were in New York.
There was like this massive amount of people that would
go there and just like go see an adult film.
Like it was for a while. It was like kind
of you know, it was never like a Broadway kind
of thing. I mean, I won't go that far, but

(02:32:16):
it was like very popular for a while. Right, So
there was all these movies that were coming out, and
like they were always trying to draw people in and
like stars were important or like you know, they would
be outside yelling like different promotions to try to pull
people in to see these things. And so it's it's
fun to be able to capture that. And I think
one of the things I like about what they're doing

(02:32:36):
with the quality ex releases is you know they're actually
pulling commentaries and features and like they're they're giving them
proper releases kind of similar to what you'd expect from
a partner label. Yeah, so yeah, anyways, it's a you know,
it was a finite period of a finite part in

(02:32:59):
New York for small period of time. But like these
are very popular movies in that time. I think they
always what do they always talk about? What's the one
for you mentioned?

Speaker 4 (02:33:09):
It?

Speaker 2 (02:33:10):
Just Deep Throat was like the number one grossing year
that year, right, Like it beat everything that year. So
outside of quality X then looks like the other label
that gets a lot of love on here is gonna
be Pulse as well as Picarama, right m h yeah,

(02:33:31):
but Pulse is actually not they have like a unique
relationship with Pulse. But I think it's actually a French company, right.

Speaker 9 (02:33:40):
It is, So it's a French company and it is
a partner label. They have one release right now on
the Vinegar Syndrome sites because it's not hardcore, but that's
what they typically do, and I think they just put
out like what one or two this year or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (02:33:56):
Yeah, they had a movie called Candice Candy.

Speaker 2 (02:34:00):
It must have been maybe two months ago, it's two
or three months ago, and then I don't think they
had anything else out this year, because it seems like
quality extually dominated this year. And then there's a few
titles from Command Cinema as well.

Speaker 9 (02:34:19):
I watched one of those the other night and really
enjoyed it, Farewell Scarlet, And one of my patrons sent
me a copy of that, and it's like a hard
boiled murder mystery that is also pornographic, and it's very
silly and it's very like it's almost like a parody
of like the hard.

Speaker 11 (02:34:35):
Boiled detective stuff, but.

Speaker 9 (02:34:38):
It's like also kind of like if you made a
hardcore version of like Clue or something like that. It's
funny and it's good and it's well made, and I
really liked it.

Speaker 11 (02:34:47):
So that's another recommendation to throw out there.

Speaker 3 (02:34:50):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (02:34:51):
Okay, yeah, Farewell Scarlet, and let's see they have these
do have some limited editions left, so.

Speaker 3 (02:35:00):
But that's fun. Yeah. I think that's I mean, I
think that's pretty much it.

Speaker 2 (02:35:04):
I mean, we've got the obviously the District Picks which
is sold here, and the Vinewer Syndrome website, and that's
all Stephen Moore's, it's all.

Speaker 3 (02:35:15):
He's like a legend.

Speaker 4 (02:35:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (02:35:18):
Yeah, District Picks has like been around.

Speaker 9 (02:35:22):
I think, yeah, we said fifty years and now they're
just doing a full on collaboration for their home video stuff,
which is really cool just because I think they have
an extensive library of stuff, yeah, that they can mine from.
I will say, it's really funny to see Blonde on
a bum trip on the male you scene site because
it's just not even.

Speaker 11 (02:35:39):
A little bit in that category.

Speaker 9 (02:35:42):
There's like, I mean a sex scene in it with
some nudity, Like I mean, it's really it, Like it's
not you.

Speaker 2 (02:35:49):
Know, last of nudity. Yeah, it was just a straight
like warning against LSD. Right, Basically, it's just like a
straight like marijuana is bad, cocaine has been.

Speaker 3 (02:36:00):
This is one of these kind of PSAs. Yeah, but
it's fun.

Speaker 8 (02:36:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:36:05):
I think you know you said something a minute ago
that is really interesting about like trying to draw people
to this because I think I think you're right, Like
seven just put out this black and manual box set, right,
and that like the content in that set there's some
extremely wacky and explicit and uncomfortable content. Have you seen

(02:36:29):
those movies yet?

Speaker 9 (02:36:31):
Like that actually sounded like it was too much even
for me, so I was like, maybe I'll pass but
lately I've been kind of thinking maybe I'll get it
on that.

Speaker 4 (02:36:39):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:36:40):
Yeah, like some of the some of the like essay
stuff is pretty rough, but like there's.

Speaker 9 (02:36:46):
Also just mean more like I think I heard that
she like jerks off a horse and you see that,
and I'm like, I'm good on that, just fully, I'm
good on that.

Speaker 4 (02:36:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:36:56):
Yeah, there's a snake scene like with like with a snake.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:37:05):
It's just wild because it's like the celebration of sex
basically right, and there's that they're not even really shy
about it. Like it's a fascinating look at Kinks and
you have this woman who, although she's going through all
these adventures and sometimes she's coming close to death and
like she's getting abused on occasion, she's sort of always

(02:37:25):
in control and like this is genuinely like something she
really loves. It's like a it's presented in a way
of like this is how she gets off and she
like so it's they kind of try to put it
in a way where she's in control and it's they're
fascinating movies. But like if Severn's putting that out on
their site, not to mention a lot of the other

(02:37:47):
either hardcore titles or like near really hardcore titles that
they have, it's weird to not see them on vinegar
syndrome side anymore.

Speaker 3 (02:37:55):
And like Melish.

Speaker 2 (02:37:57):
Scene, I guess, I guess my long point here is
that just because it's on Meloscene and you're not into
just like quote unquote like watching porn, like, I think
it's probably not fair to the stuff that's on here,
Like that's probably not a fair way to look at
what's actually on here.

Speaker 11 (02:38:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (02:38:15):
Yeah, I hope that doing this segment, and you know,
you offering me the space to do it, helps kind
of remove the stigma and give people an idea as
to what they can expect with this sort of thing,
because yeah, it is kind of bizarre to me that
people will be like, oh, I don't really watch that
kind of stuff when it's like the stuff on Melo scene.
But then like the Emmanuel set comes out and everybody
fucking loses their mind about it.

Speaker 11 (02:38:37):
It's like, well that stuff is like worse, you know. Yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (02:38:43):
I am definitely intrigued by that set because I just
I just keep watching more stuff and just like my
desensitization just keeps increasing with like some of this stuff,
and I'm just like, whatever, I could probably it's probably
fine for me at this point.

Speaker 4 (02:38:54):
I just want to see it, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:38:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:38:57):
I would say I'm seven movies in and there's only
in those seven movies, there's only two moments where I
was like, yeah, like I'm pretty desensitized by things. But
it was just a lot, but the rest of it
is more just like interesting and I don't know. Yeah, anyways,
So you are four months four segments in. Right, this

(02:39:21):
is technically your fourth right, so you did the initial
one and then fifteen minutes with you was kind of
born a number two and three and now this one. Right, Yeah,
I hope you're stick around next year.

Speaker 11 (02:39:34):
Oh yeah, that's the plan. I'm really enjoying this good.

Speaker 3 (02:39:38):
I really am too. And I think you're the right person.

Speaker 2 (02:39:41):
It feels like just hearing you talk and the way
you research and the way you kind of prepare for this,
it does feel like you're the right person to be
doing this.

Speaker 3 (02:39:48):
So thank you, so lis.

Speaker 11 (02:39:49):
Well, thank you.

Speaker 9 (02:39:50):
I try to take it really seriously, you know, like
I think that this is important stuff, and I try
to give it the same level of dedication that I
do to my own work and everything. So yeah, I've
really enjoyed doing it, and yeah, I'm just it's exciting
to be able to because I'm not going to be
able to participate in the subscription next year, but it
will be exciting to still kind of have a monthly

(02:40:14):
slate of films that I can look forward to and
review formally and everything like that. So yeah, yeah, my
channel is kind of up in the air right now.
I'm not really sure what I'm doing with it, but
it's nice to have this that's like still structured and like,
you know, a monthly thing that I can look forward
to and keep up my chops, so to speak on

(02:40:36):
this sort of thing.

Speaker 4 (02:40:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:40:37):
Well, yeah, I'm a big fan, and I'm glad to
hear you'll be sticking around. So have a wonderful end
of year. And I guess if I'm sure, I'll talk
to you online, but officially see you in January.

Speaker 4 (02:40:50):
Huh.

Speaker 3 (02:40:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (02:40:51):
Can I give one last shout out for a release
that came out this year before we sign off, of course?

Speaker 11 (02:40:56):
Yeah, Sex Demon.

Speaker 9 (02:40:58):
I just watched that today and I just think it
is such a cool thing that Liz Purchell over at
AGFA found three lost hardcore features and they're all on there,
and I mean sex Demon is kind of the the
marquee title, so to speak, as like an Exorcist rip
off that SKay porn, and it is pretty fascinating, and

(02:41:19):
I mean the print is in rough shape because it's
the only one that exists, and it's just you know,
clearly wasn't held in the best conditions as it was lost.
But it's very watchable and the subtitles are done really
well and it looks good aside from like all the scratches,
you know, but I think the grimy look to it
kind of adds. It looks like something you're not supposed
to be seeing, and that kind of adds to the

(02:41:41):
the cursed nature of the story and everything. I haven't
had the chance to watch the other two features on
there yet, but it is a single press, which is unfortunate.
But it's not sold out yet, which is also kind
of unfortunate. So everyone should check that out. That's gonna
be my plug for that.

Speaker 2 (02:42:00):
I think it's down the five hundred titles, so there's
a good chance it won't survive the January sale. So
between now and that may give it a chance because
your eg for stuff actually does a pretty good job
of selling out.

Speaker 3 (02:42:12):
For the most part.

Speaker 9 (02:42:12):
They seem to be the most consistent seller on the
partner label side. People love them, which I think is
cool because like they don't really have anything that like
there's nothing really at least for me, that comes out
and I'm like, oh, I've heard of that or oh
I've seen that. Right, It's like no fucking idea what
that is. But it looks cool. And I mean, they
like can sell out a trailer reel in like twelve hours,

(02:42:34):
you know, like it's crazy.

Speaker 11 (02:42:35):
Yeah, but I love them and what they're doing so.

Speaker 3 (02:42:38):
Definitely seem all right.

Speaker 2 (02:42:40):
Well, thanks so lism, thank you all right, see online
see yeah, okay, yeah, here we go December in the books.
I'll see you in January. Thank you so much for
everybody that's stuck around. I'll do my best to link
everything we spoke about today in the episode notes, and

(02:43:04):
just huge shout out to everybody who came on this
year and gave me their time and helped me build this.
I say this every time, I really mean it. If
you have any ideas for the podcast, if you have
a segment you want to consider hosting. If you want
to be a part of this Punk Vacation community, just

(02:43:24):
send me a note and I'll consider it. So twenty
twenty four in the books as far as this is concerned,
and y'all just thank you so much for listening, and
for those that reached out and said something on Instagram
or through Reddit or through discord. Somehow, it means a lot,

(02:43:48):
and it's just it's fun not to be speaking into
a void. So keep it up, and I love you all.

Speaker 1 (02:44:44):
Thank you for listening. To hear more shows from the
Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network, please select the link in
the description.

Speaker 12 (02:44:58):
I am Adam Lundy, the host of the Radiance Films Podcast,
a show that is dedicated to all things Radiance Films.
Join me every month as myself and some varied and
interesting guests sit down to discuss the latest releases and
announcements from Radiance Films, now part of Someone's Favorite Productions
Podcast Network.

Speaker 13 (02:45:21):
Hello, my name is Kevin Tudor, and I'm one of
the three hosts of almost Major Film podcast, dissecting many
major indie studios in the films they release every week. Myself,
Charlie Nash and Brydon Doyle discuss overlooked, forgotten or bona
fide classic indie films via studio specific mini series. We've
previously covered numerous films from artists and entertainment, Lionsgate films

(02:45:43):
and New Line Cinema titles, including The Blair Witch Project,
American Psycho, Dogville, But I'm a Cheerleader, Saw Record for
a Dream, and Ring Master you know the Jerry Springer film. Anyways,
we have a fun time every week and we hope you.

Speaker 10 (02:45:57):
Won't join us.

Speaker 13 (02:45:58):
Subscribe to almost major wherever you get. UTURE Podcasts now
proudly a part of the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network

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Episode 10 - 2024 End of Year Extravaganza

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 10 - 2024 End of Year Extravaganza