Episode 11 - The Black Tar Heroin Effect - Punk Vacation: An Unofficial Vinegar Syndrome Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Hey y'all, Happy twenty twenty five. Welcome to episode eleven
of Punk Vacation and Unofficial Vinegar Syndrome Podcast. This is Chris.
I am starting this because I want to try to
find the joy in unfettered creativity. I want to make
this a podcast dedicated to bringing awareness and context to

(01:05):
movies from any budget, from anywhere, and during any period
of history. Personally, I've been a subscriber since Black Friday
of twenty twenty one and love Vinegar Syndrome as well
as a lot of the partner labels. I'm tracking VS
becoming kind of this industry powerhouse and it's just fun
to see how high they can go. So thank you

(01:25):
all for anybody who's made it through any one of
the first ten. We are starting this year off sprinting.
I'm so excited with the guest today. I promise y'all,
I'm always going to try to have somebody that can
jump on with me. And I can't believe that Sam
said yes. So Sam from BNS about movies, I'm gonna

(01:46):
call him a film historian. I don't know if he
calls himself that, but this dude knows more about movies
than most people. He runs bnsaboutmovies dot com. For about
the last six years, he's been doing writing and podcasting,
in a video cast and just all over the place
in other people's interviews. Sam, thank you so much for

(02:06):
saying yes to this.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Thank you for asking. I think that's the important. So
I don't know if I'm a people. I don't know
what my title is film the story. I think I
just liked, like I said on the second, I watched
too many movies and I buy too many, and it
maybe makes me feel better that I'm doing something positive
it versus just hoarding them in this basement and constantly

(02:29):
re aphabetizing them. So at least I'm like trying to
get other people. I'm trying to break up marriages. Basically,
where a husband saying should I buy this movie? I'm like,
you should buy that whole box set, and then their
wives say why why don't you tell them that? Just
go complete on the line, Yeah, you should get the
whole Black commanual set. It's only two hundred and sixty
five dollars and it's totally worth it. It is totally worth.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
It, but you know it is totally worth it. The
reason I say Film Historian, there's a really great episode
here on Unsung Cors that I think people should listen
to where your your depth, I think is exposed in
a good way. But also just the cadence of your
main podcast, the Beings about movies. You know, you create

(03:10):
this nice little snippet of sort of context and history
around the film more than just saying you do mention
if you like it or not. But it's not just
like going through the plot and then talking about that
like you really kind of I think you do like
a mini commentary almost for all these movies, and it's
I love it.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Well thanks. I think when I first started writing about movies,
like a lot of times, like when you see one,
I don't often want to talk about movies that like
other people have written about, right because like what can
I say about Psyche? Yeah, yeah, it hasn't been said
right like the greatest like once Gadribrut and like all
you know, these like major people talk about it. It's
like cool, like what am I going to do? But

(03:49):
also it's like to me, like what I care about
is how did this get made? Why did it get made? Sometimes?
Why did it get made? Who is it for? Sometimes
I'm baffled, Like a movie, the Pink Angels movie that's
a movie about a gay biker group, like that will
offend any bikers that see it, and also it's so
anti stereotypical gay, like they would be upset about it,

(04:11):
and it has a downer ending, like who really it
was this for? Like who wanted to watch this? And
like that's fascinating to me that, Like, because so much
of exploitation and any movies right is about making money.
Why would you make a movie that seems apparently about
not having anybody like it?

Speaker 4 (04:28):
So that's what fascinates me and I want to learn about.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
And I love when I get comments, especially from IMDb
review because I share it on IMDb and people are like, well,
you didn't say if you like the movie or not.
This isn't a review. I'm like, I never said it
in a review, Like it's I just want to talk
about the movie. I always think about it's like, well
you and I were having a beer. That's kind of
how I look at this now when we're talking about movies,
Like I always, even within my I'm a work in advertising.

(04:50):
I always look at advertising is like the same thing.
It's me trying to sell you on a movie. Like
I've gotten advertising because the text has changed some masker
because Herschel WARDN. Lewis right, because like the tagline like
who will survive? What would be left after them? How
do you not want to see that movie? Right?

Speaker 4 (05:08):
Like holy shit, Like that's great.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, like like and the fascination of me to that.
And then also when I first started my first agency,
they gave me all these books on advertising and they
were like Introduction to Advertising by H. R. Lewis, and
I was like, there's no way this could be Herschel
Gordon Lewis. Yeah, it is Herschel Gordon Lewis invented spam email,
Like he invented direct mail and spam email pretty much,

(05:30):
and that's crazy. So it's like the dude who made
Blood Feast and ten and two thousand Maniacs and all
my you know, so many of my favorite movies. Yeah,
Like he also like gave me kind of a career
like reading this stuff and it's like wow, like it's
neat when like things like there's like a nexus point
I call it, right where these things all kind of
cross over into one place. Yeah, and it's like, oh,

(05:52):
well that's when like yeah, cool. I don't know if
let's not get too deep. I don't know if there's
a divine plan or something, but sometimes when that happens,
you're like, yeah, maybe quite maybe there is, like this
is the scene is to start making sense. Yeah, so
like thank you. I like I think on the show,
like I try to be short and sweet because it's
like so many podcasts are like nine hours of like
getting and it's like, hey, if you're going to the bathroom,

(06:14):
just listen. I always think I'm writing stuff that you
can go to the bathroom and read. Like that's what
I'm always looking for. Like when I meet Launch, like
what's up quick? I can read? And like there used
to be a lot of like h like with everything
nothing sites back in the day, you know, like blogs
where people write about that, and now everybody put stuff
behind paid walls or yeah, gets paid a lot of
money to do books, and it's like, well, maybe I

(06:34):
there's not a lot of sites like that anymore. So
like I always try to write stuff that I'd like
to read, like why is no one writing about spookies?

Speaker 4 (06:41):
And uh, and going deep. Maybe they are more people.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Know spookies now than they did when I Mega Force Bega,
yeah right, you were probably the right age the like
where every comic had a Mega Force ad in it,
Every Marvel book had it that D's not worried add
for like three months in the summer of like eighty
two or wherever it was, And like I was like,
oh my god, Like I can't wait to join Max

(07:06):
Hunter and be in the same way like I couldn't
wait to join Buckeru Bun's Eye as a kid. What
did you want with my fat as fat ass as
a kid. But everything was like join Megaphors, It's a
buck to join. And like my favorite thing about Mega
Force is that they said the filmmaker, I love filmmaker
bullshit right there? Bs, should I censor myself by the way,

(07:27):
I don't know if you like believe no no sense?
Uh all right? Cool? So like I love the bullshit
of megaphce that they said, Well, we asked the government
for some of their vehicles so we could use them.
They said no, So we made our own up and
the government asked us, could they have our vehicles?

Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yeah, they use them desert.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Desert they didn't shut the fuck up, like that never happened.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
There's no way that happened.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
There's no way we should dress dress the womy up
in Golden Wood may suits and have flying motorcycles and
like have them kiss their thumbs. This never happened, But
you know what if it did, awesome, Like how neat him?
Also that he went on and made Rad Like what
a contribution like Snoker Ace Rad smoking a bandit. Let's

(08:10):
canonize that, dude.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, no, no, you need a little bit of that
gusto to become, you know, to be I think a filmmaker,
because like that's the you mentioned hg Lewis in the beginning.
I mean, that's the beautiful thing about him is it
doesn't matter what the movie, what's in the movie. Like
I always think about Wizard of Gore. You know, there's
a there's like three good ideas in that movie and
they're great and the rest of it's kind of filler,

(08:32):
but like it's a fun movie, But how do you
sell that movie right? And he nails it, like he
just knows exactly how to pull like what to pull out,
and you might feel a little bit cheated, but you
also get enough of what you're looking for it or
where you're like, ah, that was all right, it's a
good time. But yeah, I love it.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
I like carnibullsh Yeah, yeah, that's my favorite thing because
like if you go back to the forty Thieves, right
of the guys that started exploitation Kroger Bab and you
have mom and dad, it's not a good movie, right,
have you ever seen it. It's not a good movie.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
It's a highgie movie. It's a great category.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
These are movies that like we're sold, they have people
come and like learn something, right, But like Kirger Bab realized,
like this movie's not doing well. So when he picked
up the distribution, he's like, I'm going to get a
doctor and a stripper to be a nurse, and they're
going to be in every theater and they're gonna sell
a book about this stuff. Right, But in every city,
I can't sell it the same way. So in some

(09:30):
cities it's gonna be educational and we'll split men and
women up so only men can see it at night
and women see it during the day when it's safe.
In other cities where they're like super conservative, I'm going
to sell it as like a controversial movie and they
don't want to play it in the theater, and he'll
call in his own bomb threats and stuff to theaters
playing it, and then like in other theaters, like it's
like this needs to be seen by the youth of today,

(09:52):
and I'll play it in schools. And he would just
figure this out right right, And then if none of
that work, he would put a knockout gay. He would
put like like fumes into the air conditioning system and
have people pass out while they watch it, and make
sure the newspapers were there to cover it. And he'd like,
this movie is so shocking that people are throwing out
and passing out. You did that to him, Kroger Bab
And then he would sell these books. At any point

(10:13):
he had thirty prints of this movie running in the US,
with thirty of the same doctor with the same name
with stripper nurses. And that's genius. And the whole reason
that they did it for men is there's this scene
where babies getting born, so you can see full frontal nudary.
Oh see see everything, Like I know there's a whole
hygiene genre of like you will see a baby be born.

(10:35):
I don't want to see that, right, But like, isn't
that crazy that in like nineteen fifty two or even
before in the forties when he was doing this that
like men wanted to see female nudy is so bad.
They're like, I'll watch a baby come out of it
so that I can see it.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
And he was selling that. He like that was his
Smoker film, And it's like, but he is the starting.

Speaker 5 (10:55):
David Freem and all these other dudes and Herschel worn Lewis,
they all come out of him setting up this network
of like these distributors and stuff. And that's why I
love Herschel Gordon Lewskus, like even the jail for a
while for like fraud. Yeah, he's a reprobate despite him
working in advertising, and I love that about him. Like,
you know, like I always wanted to be in a
side show as a kid, and like I always wanted

(11:16):
to like run away with the Circus or you know,
being a spook show or something, you know, like something
that like and I was in. I was Parstler for
like twenty four years, so I did that. It's close enough, right,
and like, but like anybody anybody that like takes that
Carnie like h bucksterism is like I got to sell
this Steve, however it is. I saw herschel word lows

(11:36):
is awesome because yeah blood, He's like the gore is
not good. It's lamb got sucked and they soaked lamb
got some waysol and used them over and over again
for like three weeks. And like Florida where it's hot
as shit, right, and like I love that they have.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Like a playboy playmate and he's like, we're gonna put
this like cow tongue in your mouth and just bold
and we cut it out. I'm sure she thought, like
I'm gonna be in this beach movie and I'm gonna
be is like we're gonna cut your eye out, Like
like how can you not love that? Right, and like
that hucksterism, And that's what's missing I think in movies
today where it's like him William Castle is and other one.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, yeah, because like Castle's awesome, cause it's like the
actually I like his movies, like they're not all great,
but some of them aren't.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yes, and like but it's like the fact that he's
like if I can't sell you on this on the
movie itself, I can sell you in the fact that
you're going to be shocked by a buzzer or that
you know you I will guarantee your life against fright
my favors. We watch a lot of drive in ads
on our video cast and go through and talk about them.

(12:41):
There's a lot of like if you make it to
this last movie, you get milk and cookies, or you
get uh, you know, there'll be someone taking your blood
pressure throughout the movies. They like hired a nurse to
do this. Like what movies good? I want that today?
Like if I see like a A neon or an
A twenty four movie, I want there to be a
one that guarantees me like it's fright, and I want

(13:02):
them to like check my pulse throughout the movie. Howard
would that be? Like I want these experiences. I don't
want to just sit and see if I'm if I'm
gonna go into the world, have to be around human beings.
I want. I want to be sold.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
But you know, I I'm kind of torn on that.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
I would.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
I mean, first of all, I'm right there with you.
I love it, But I do think it worked because
there was a certain level of naivete back then that
it would be hard to replicate now. People were just
so much more cynical now.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah, like it like Emerge. It was one of my
favorite castle effects where a skeleton would come out of
the screen and fly across the audience. And I think
today people just rip it down. That's not a real skeleton. Yeah. Yeah,
Like I think about like ray Denis Steckler movies where
like he would send like people in cash flag masks
out into the audience exactly like with knives, Like why

(13:50):
didn't like can you imagine the movie theater, Like you're
a movie theater manager and you're just trying to get
these sixteen year old kids to settle down, and you're
like you get this movie, and they're like, we want
everybody to put on these latex masks and run through
the audience. And I think they're kind of stabbed them,
Like these kids are gonna get today. I would just
shoot one of these kids. But it's like that's like
where I love reading press books from back thens. It's

(14:12):
like these are the ideas that they had, and that's
how we're gonna sell it. Yeah, but you're right, I
don't think it would work today. People get upset too easy,
too so people be like, well, I went to this
movie and a guy came out in a mask and
he touched my shoulder.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
And no, totally, I think, yeah, there'd be some lawsuits
or something. You know. My favorite story about this is
have you ever seen? And after this we can jump
into the movies for a second, but have you ever
seen Hell's a Poppin?

Speaker 3 (14:37):
No? No, I've heard of it, but I've never seen it.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
So it's one of the most beautiful things ever created
for me because it's you know, we hear a lot
about like silent comedians that kind of transferred well into sound,
but we never really talk about Alielsen. But this dude
was breaking the fourth wall even in a live show.
Like he used to have people that would be walking

(15:01):
through the audience selling tickets to the competing show, talking
about how this show sucks. He would have like people
walking through the audience selling like fish and donuts and
just random stuff interrupting the play, and the actors would
like engage with them. They would, so he was constantly
he was constantly engaging the audience like like not not

(15:21):
necessarily in a William Castle way, but like but just
in a way of like he never knew what was
going to happen in an all the Olsen Show, and
and he brought that experience into the movie as well.
He's constantly breaking the fourth wall in the movie. It's hilarious.
It's amazing, Like it's so far ahead of its time
from what you think of in comedy, like like mill
Brooks does it, but not even to the same level

(15:44):
that Olsen did. And the fact that people aren't talking
about this guy now is like tragedy to me because
he was pushing like all the stuff you're talking about
he was doing but for comedy, yeah, like it.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
It reminds me of like the Spook Show movies where
they would have actors jump out of the screen and
kidnap a girl in the middle of the movie. Yeah,
that kind of party.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, Like there's so much there's so much fun, like
theatrical theatricality like to all that, Like it's just like
you don't you're not just sitting there phones down watching something,
which is fine, Like there's there's definitely a place for that.
But some movies, like horror movies and comedies I think
really really well to have engagement throughout.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
But anyways, the last movie I can think of that
does that's like Gremlins two does it where unfortunately Haul
Cogan is the person to do it. But like the
you know, and I love that the VHS version. I
was so excited when I read it, like, is that
Hall Cogain scene gonna be like, No, it's a John
Wayne scenehere. John Wayne shoots the grem Ones and restarts
the movie, and there's like but I think also.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
Because Dante's like Joe Nota is drawing.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Back on he knows that history of exactly interaction with
the screen, he was probably looking at Hell's a Pop
and and thinking through that, like, you know, because he's
a student of this stuff. Yeah, I wrote that down
to watch.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
I will promise I'll watch it.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Next time you're on we can talk about it. It's honestly,
honestly is a little tough to find. Hopefully you can
find it streaming. I had to buy an old DVD
at a print DVD. I just I know it's a
rights issue why it hasn't come back out. Yeah, and
it's with somebody who doesn't even care about the movie.
So it's a shame. But I hope somebody can figure

(17:18):
it out because it's just one of those ones where
like if there's anybody that needs to be rediscovered in
terms of sort of like a canonical comedian guy, it's
Alli Alson. But anyways, different different podcasts for that. Yeah,
so we're going to do something I don't want to
say different. It's just I have no idea how to
navigate the fact that Vinegar Syndrome doesn't have a consistent

(17:41):
release schedule. I'm still trying to figure that out. So
we're going to be talking about movies from November and
then and Black Friday, which is sort of like their
December releases, I guess, but they didn't ship out until
you know, late December or even early January, so some
people are still getting their their Black Friday stuf. So

(18:01):
I felt like it would be okay for us to
go all the way back to November and talk about
these what's your just very quickly, but then we can
jump into it what is your background with Vinegar Syndrome?
Like are you you know? Are you do you collect
a lot of them? Do you just kind of watch
the movies? Like like, what what's your level of engagement

(18:22):
with vinegar Syndrome?

Speaker 3 (18:24):
I watch everything that I buy, right, I open everything up.
But I started. The first vineger syndrome I bought was
in Search of big Foot in Crywilder, and as soon
they were just doing DVD awesome, So I've been buying
their stuff for a while. Yeah, And my I can
definitely when I totally took notice of the label is
when Night Trained to Terror came out, because it's one
of my favorite movies of all time. I've i've I

(18:47):
can talk about that movie. I'm doing a video right
now on it. I can explain our video of it
because like that's a movie, it's a nexus point of
like like so many people that come together and you
learn so much about weird Hollywood, even like blacklisting is
involved in it. Like at one point he was pitching
every studio in Hollywood and using multiple people to do it,
and he kept getting called out for it, and he

(19:08):
wouldn't say he hid office on the lot of Paramount
and he was still going to Universal and selling movies
like this and that era is crazy, right, But I
love Nitrain of Terror because it's three movies that weren't
finished and they're all kind of messy, but all like
they really hit on all of my things, Like any
movies with like a cult or Satanism stuff, especially like

(19:28):
post extorsis ri Boffs, right, that's.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
My that's my jam.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
So like I love that and then I just I
buy stuff as it came out. I actually brought a
stack with me of like stuff that I've bought from
them that are important to me. And it's funny because
so many of these movies are like integral to what
my filmmaking film loving DNA, like Demonoids on the top
of the stack. I love Demonoids so much, Like it's

(19:54):
such It's funny because like this last year, Tarantino talked
about it on his podcast and all these people were
like read discovering it. I'm like, where you guys been,
Like de Venoid's been out there. It's like the best
movie about a boxing priest that's not The Exorcist, Uh
you know it's I And then like I got disconnected
here love that movie. Yeah, And like Spooky Spooky's was

(20:15):
my big Like I gotta start buying a lot of
stuff from Vinegar Syndrome because I was buying Spookies all
the time. Like I bought a blu ray of Spookies
from France. Last Spooky Las Spooky's Lace spook and I
was like, oh, this is gonna be the best quality
copy of it. And I spent like way too much
on it, right, like three three figures, let's say.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
And my wife's like, why did you spend one hundred
and twenty five dollars on Spookies? Like the movie sucks?
And I'm like, yeah, but it means something to me.
And then the next month, like Vinegar Syndrome came out
with That'm like, fuck, I gotta buy it again, and yeah,
because obviously it looks a lot better than this, but yeah,
I just love the label. And I think I always
joke like that when I was we our basement where
my office and movie room is flooded and we couldn't

(20:58):
use it for like six months of this year. All
the movies had to go into boxes. I'm sure you
can if you're anybody listening to it's like you're feeling.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
The pain of that right now, right Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
And it was like I couldn't find my movies, and
like I just knew that, Like once I got my
Camille Keating and Italy box set back out and I
could look at it every day, I knew that life
would be better, right, Like that's like a really important
thing to me, and like now and I'm looking at
it right now, I'm like, oh man, what like the
fact that someone like I love that Commulle Keaton made
these movies and I always was like obsessed with them,

(21:28):
And the fact that a label like Went said we're
gonna put these all onto one set and for lunatics
like you, and it's out there.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
Like that's why to me, they're a great label.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
And also like I love that like they unite, like
it's funny, Like like I think there's some labels that
you can point to that have like an identity, right,
Like Criterion's identity is like trying to find like the
best in film and give it the best releases, you know,
visual vengeances like shot on video stuff, But like Vinegar
Syndromes is just like these. It could be a movie

(22:01):
like The Panic or Hell's Trap that came out from Mexico.
That's crazy and also The Horrible Doctor Hitchcock, which is
forty years before that, and you know what I mean,
or like it's all around the world. But it's also
like it feels like they all they have like some
weird edge or something where this is the stuff that
when video stores were still around that like these weren't
in the new releases and these were buried in the

(22:21):
horror section and like only like the horror nerds would
talk about them and study hall. That's what their releases
feel like to me, and that's what I want.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
But they you kind of touched on this, but just
to like double down on it. Like the fact that
they're doing it from multiple countries though, and kind of
multiple different film histories is awesome to me because like
I you know, uh, the Liberty has this idea of
rewriting the canon, and I have to say, like he
has he has really well Benever syndrome including him, but

(22:52):
that whole team has honestly shaped my personal cannon, like
it in a way that, yeah, I wasn't expecting. Seven
is another good one. Blue Underground is one, like Anchor
Bay back in the day was one. But like you know,
there's just so many movies out there, Like I love
the fact that we're in this time now where you
can start to get a really nice blue ray of
blood tracks that we're gonna be talking about today, because

(23:14):
like there's enough cool stuff in that film that I'm
really happy I've seen it.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Well, I also love I don't I was going to
say legitimizes, like but you know we've talked before that
it's not what I want. But like when there's a
movie that I really like, in Vindiger Syndrome puts it
out like it's a good feeling. Like I was obsessed
with The Black Room for years. Like that's a movie that, like,
again I can talk about at length and it like
it gives me a lot of feelings and like I

(23:39):
have a lot of deep thoughts on it. And like
when it came out from them, like oh, finally, like
there's gonna be other people that now know this movie,
and it like opens up. Like I never want to
be like a gatekeeper on movies, right, That's why I
do the stuff that I do. I want people to
discover these and I want people to watch them and
talk about like the fact that like I knew that
they had the rights to Intrepid as Punks for like

(24:00):
three years before it came out, and I was dying
for it to come out. And I'm like, I can't
wait till people see this movie movie because it's so crazy. Yeah,
it was like it's oh my god, and it's like
all the Mexican stuff that came out, Like I felt
like I bought that stuff for a buck at US
you know, use grocery stores, and it used been at
like Mexican grocery stores, and now I'm paying forty bucks

(24:20):
for it, but like I'm getting like a really great
quality copy of it, and it's like that's what I love.
It's like it's opening up these movies so that like
we talked about before we got on like Obsession to
Taste for Fear, another movie that like I wanted people
to see forever. Now that people are talking about it
and doing podcasts about it and watching it, it's like
I'm so joyful that like they're getting to see like
a great quality copy and they don't have to watch

(24:41):
it on like Russian hack sites. It's like me, or
do you know what I mean, Like wherever you find
it online. That's the way to watch a movie, though, Chris, like, uh,
if you watch it on a Russian site and it
has somebody yelling the dialogue in Russian over another language
while there's like three hard, hard coded subtitles all at
the same time filling the screen, like that's when you're
getting the best quot a copy of a movie. But

(25:02):
if that's the only copy you can get, I mean
get it, you know what I mean. I grew up
in the in the VHS trading era right where it
was like just even finding a shallah was like hard.
Like now we live in this like that's what's awesome
about both physical media and streaming. Like we live in
this abundant world now where like how awesome is it?
Like if you look at your shelf right now, like

(25:23):
you know that like a movie, like the fact that
we have this beautiful, perfect release of The Horrible Doctor
Hitchcock right and it's like on my shelf.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
I can grab it any time to watch it.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Before I'd see pictures of it in magazines as a
kid and like old famous monsters, and I'd be like,
I'd really like to see that movie, but I gotta
wait till it's on a horror show on TV. And
you know, obviously they don't have it at my video store,
my library doesn't have it. There's no internet. You know,
it's the seventies, right, we were. Yeah, so like it's
great now that we have this.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
I'm getna nerd out for just a second, But I
work in it, so I have to go here because
you're you gave me an idea. You know, the whole
reason people got excited about blockchain technology. I mean, now
it's become kind of synonymous with cryptocurrency, but it's like
the foundation for that, right, it's not even related to
that necessarily. But the reason they got so excited about
the technology was because if you need to authenticate like
an email that was sent or a video that was sent,

(26:15):
or where the source of a file was from or
something like that, you used to only have one source
of truth for that, right, But with blockchain, if you
have a million nodes on the network, then you have
a million authentication points of each file that was sent.
And it's beautiful because you can say, like, no, this
was the time it was the contract was signed right here,

(26:37):
and like if you want to dispute it, there's a
million people that verified it the instant that it was signed,
so like there's no dispute. And I kind of like
this now, I'm going to tie this back into your
comment because I kind of feel like what physical media
is doing now is for every every time that there's
a copy of looking for mister Goodbar or you know,

(26:59):
some movies that like intrepidos Punks or whatever. Right, there's
now five thousand copies of it out there, where worst
case scenario, it gets destroyed, you've got five thousand prints
of that film that are in a very good condition
that you can kind of at least work from. So
these films are just like not getting lost anymore in
the same.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
Yeah, well, I think that's really important. Of these boutique
labels like Severn put out all the russ Meyer Bixen
set this year. Yeah, yeah, and I think and my
biggest worry is like, yeah, I know, rus Myer's never
going to become truly lost, but there was no way
to see these movies for a lot of people outside

(27:37):
of you go to a gray market source or you're
you know, how to Not everybody can hunt the internet
for yeah, yeah, yeah, nobody grow I think if you
grew up on vbs's with the common Door sixty four
and you like stole all your software as a kid,
it taught you this like weird mental state of like
I can find anything online, right, I'm sure you're the
same way from doing it. And it's like, but normal

(27:58):
folks aren't gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna hunt down
Vixen and find a bad quality copy of it and
watch it on the internet archive. They don't know how
to do that. And it's like the fact that now
these seven ones exist and it's like these movies won't
be lost, and like the people can say, oh, I'm
not just seeing pictures of Resmeyer movies and books are
on a website or seeing like a ten second clip.
I'm actually getting to see the best quality copy, especially

(28:20):
because like Beneath the Valley Ultra Vixens, the original print
was decimated, like it had been stored outside, it had
water damage, and they spent a ton of time forkaying it.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
And it's like wow, like how crazy is it that?
Like I'm so used to It also gives.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
You a sense memory, Like my memory of these movies
is the VHS versions I've had for years and the
bootlegs I've had for years, and now seeing them with
new colors and stuff, it reinvents the movie in your head.
And I think that's why, like I like sometimes people
say like, well, don't you hate like people that only
I think streaming's great. I'm not like one of those

(28:55):
anti streaming people. People are like, well, I can watch
one of these movies anytime, like why do you have
to buy it? And I'm like, well, one, these movies
come off streaming all the time, and you know you
can't predict when that's gonna happen or when they get changed,
and you're not really buying them, you're renting them or
you know, getting them for a limited time. But like
having a movie like The Black Room and reinventing it
from the fuzzy vhs I have of it to this

(29:16):
beautiful copy and getting to see it and almost getting
a whole new experience of a movie. That's why you
buy physical at least to me, that's why buy physical media.
Plus you get this like deep dive into like here's
an interview with the director, so you know you can
you know, depending on their release, but all these different
things and like experts talking about it. That's what I want.
Like I have this like relentless thirst for knowledge about

(29:36):
a movie that I love. Well.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
People talk about how beautiful it was to see good
Dard's Contempt for the first time in high dev but
and it is. It is a beautiful movie in high death,
for sure. But I feel the same way about seeing
delirium in high dev like that. That's one of those
ones that's like a VHS kind of movie, right, and
then all of a sudden, seeing it the way that
it was seen originally in theaters, you're just like, holy shit,

(29:59):
like this so beautiful, Like yeah, the colors pop so much,
and it's just like like you said, it's just a
different experience. I there's a lot of what we're going
to talk about, like when we talk about VHS copies,
I want to talk about Siliver in just a minute,
because my VHS was ruined from that movie, but it
was only like three minutes that was ruined. But I

(30:25):
think what I'd like to do, if it works for you,
is after we go through the movies, let's let's talk
about let's give people a little taste of what it's
like to listen to an episode of BNS. And I
think you have a movie selected, so do you want
to you want to give a quick preview of what
that is, and then we'll come back to it in
about fifteen twenty minutes.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Yeah, Lucia Filchi's The Devil's Honey. Oh yes, it is it,
So I'm excited to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, me too. But there's a lot to talk about
from vinegar syndrome. First. So I like to do just
because it's the way my brain works. I like to
go in spine order. So the first release from this
from them for in November, I guess was looking for
mister Goodbar's spine four eighty five. As long as you

(31:14):
live in this house, you live by the rules of
this house.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
Do you understand?

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Do you understand? Yes?

Speaker 3 (31:21):
If I can't live here by your rules, I can't.
It's time I went Hello, my place, my money, my rules.
Oh alone and Mugger's paradise. Well that's great. Now we
can worry about your day and night.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
I can't stay here and be myself. She's like a
lot of girls alone whoses the bars alone. It's kind
of cheer up.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
I mean, they don't know you live alone.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
You've never been in that bar before?

Speaker 6 (31:44):
Huh?

Speaker 3 (31:45):
All right?

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Right, right? So where did you want to go? It
makes me feel good you didn't know anybody there.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
They're that way, you know. I mean, you're drinking your neck,
none of that. All the small.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
I'll keep in touch. You've got thing me.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
That's what you've got to hold on to me.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
It's got to be made, not only.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Made, get this into one of your two heads, the
only one that can think I in my own girl,
I belong to me. Now get out here.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
They had eight thousand limited editions. It's down to one
thousand now, so it's sold pretty well for them. You know,
I don't I don't want to take a huge detour
on the business side, but I do think every once
in a while, just like how much money they actually make,
it's a pretty good business model. I mean, if you
can sell seven thousand at forty five dollars a pop
on sale, that's three hundred and fifteen thousand just on

(32:40):
one title. And I you know, I don't know what
the rights are for looking for mister Goodbar, but I
don't think they're one hundred thousand dollars. So they they've
done a good job of kind of I think, being
able to sell anything, you know, five six, seven, eight
thousand titles. And we'll get to the Keep in a second,
which was a bit of an anomaly, but like you know,
if you can if you can do that consistently, it's

(33:01):
a pretty good business model. So I'm impressed with the
vinegar syndrome has been able to kind of you know,
make maybe on every sale and make one to two
million dollars, and it feels like they're able to then
go invest in bigger titles and you know, more lines,
and I don't know, I like what they're doing.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
Oh. I also like that, you know, you set up
the model of having the subscriber club and then you
already know I have this set, like here's how much
we've already made. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like,
I guarantee that it reminds me like the Cannon business
model was the best, like before they got into the
later era of like making bigger movies, but the original

(33:40):
model was, let's make these movies for a million or
two million dollars, and we already make five million dollars
on VHS sales, foreign sales, and TV sales. So no
matter how good one of these movies does in a theater,
we're making three million. If they'd stuck to that model
and not tried to be Hollywood Seventh Studio, like they
could have cranked out these bronze and movies for years.
I would have been happy here. But like that to me,

(34:01):
like that, you know what I mean, Like that's a
great business model like you already know that you're going
to make money. And it's like and then, like you
said that a gig gives you maybe the license to
do a movie like the the Renetta Poselli Delirium that
they put out, which is like, I don't think eight
thousand people are going to buy that, but you know,
maybe that movie can be I bought it, but like,

(34:22):
you know, maybe that movie can be a little less commercial.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Whenever you have these like the Keep is definitely.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Going to sell, right, and uh yeah, yeah, Slivery is
definitely going to sell. So I think it's like kind
of doing this balancing act. It's fascinating, yep.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
And I think fascinating is a perfect segue into Looking
for Mister Goodbar for a lot of different reasons. So
first of all, have you seen Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
I saw it when I was really young, probably too
young to see it, And I remember my mom being
scandalized by this movie because yeah, it was like it
was very much a watercolor movie when it came out, right,
especially because like back then it's like, well, what women
are going to singles bars? And yes, women have needs,
oh my god, you know, but like and but it's
also like very ghallo in that like, well, your needs

(35:09):
will be destroyed, do you know what I mean? Like
this is your this is the square a priol, you
know what I mean? That this woman that just wants
it's just like Angie Dickinson and dressed to kill right,
Like all she wants to do is get out of
her bad marriage and get some It's like she has
to be destroyed, like do you know what I mean?
So that's always weird to me, Like the weird it's
the puritanical behavior of the slasher.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
But this is I think this is a really interesting
one before we get into that, because you know, Richard
Brooks directed this, and like his big movies were like
Key Largo and Cold Blood, that Capotti you know, novelization
or the I mean, what's it called the not translation. Sorry,
my mind just went blank. When you when you make

(35:51):
a adaption adaption to you, Yeah, hat on a hot
tin roof, which is so he's you know, he was
in he did Brothers, karamatts Off like he yeah, something
like yeah, twenty six movies all the way going back
to nineteen what was his first movie fifty and so
he was this like studio director. I mean he put
a little bit of you know, he always had a

(36:12):
little bit of edge to his films, but it wasn't
like he would ever have been suspected to make something
like Looking for Mister Goodbar, And you know, I think
it caught a lot of people off guard. You have
Dan Keaton the same year this came out, in nineteen
seventy seven, so this is the same year she won
an Academy Award. You've got Richard Gear, you got William Atherton,

(36:38):
Richard Kelly, Tom Behringer, Like you've got this like stat cast,
huge Hollywood movie, and it's just about like underworld sex
and kinks, but like not in a shameful way, right,
it sort of like celebrate cakes. And like you said,
the plot takes it in a direction where you could

(36:58):
easily say they're being condemned for their behavior, but the movie,
like most of the way through the movie, the characters
don't seem to be punished for their kinks. They're just
kind of celebrated for it. So it's like, to me,
it's this or not celebrated. But it's just sort of
matter of fact about it, is what I meant to say.
It just sort of is like, yeah, like there's this
group of people, and like Diane Keaton keeps looking for

(37:21):
more and more sort of edgy experiences, and she keeps
going back to Richard gear who and Tom Behringer, and
she's trying to They both have this like edge to
their personality, but it shows up in different ways. And
I don't know, man, I love this movie. I was
really surprised by how far like a studio film went.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
Yeah, I think it's interesting too because like the director
also did Blackboard Jungle, which was another like controversial movie
when it came out, right of like kids rising Up,
so I think he was used to doing that. But yeah,
it goes far. And I also like that, like you
don't think to like today like for people our age,
Like if you think, who's Tom Behringer, He's major league, right,

(38:09):
Like that's who I who I see as and is
like the role that that he plays in this movie
versus like William Atherton, Like he's one of those actors
like I can't think of any time he outside maybe no,
not even in that MOAD. He's really never a hero in.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
Any movie he's ever been. He's like one of those
guys that got Dave.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
The Locus is about as close as he gets, but
he does horrible stuff in it, and like, but he's
very much like he's like the eighties best asshole, right
between the Spushers and die Hard, Like he's like the King.
Like I can't even imagine what that's like to be.
Like maybe like him and Billy's app should get together
and be like we've only been assholes in movies, you
know what I mean, Like we've only played this role
of the foil, Like like what they should make a

(38:48):
movie just about them being in like like a government
release program of having to do like public work, you
know what I mean, And like everybody hates them because
of who they are, but like, uh yeah, I think
it's crazy. Yeah about Goodbar, Like you know, Diane Keaton's
character is like a school teacher, which is wanted to
be like the most pure thing. And I like the
idea that, like in seventy five when the book was written,

(39:09):
like the idea that a woman didn't want to have
kids because she didn't want kids to go through not
just the repression she had, but like you know, the
scoliosis and stuff that she doesn't want. She does is
not looking And this is a even today because we're
getting more puritanical again. But like even in seventy five
seventy eight when this was made, the idea that she's

(39:30):
having sex not for procreation but for pleasure and also
looking for the darker side of it and like trying
to harness her own needs and her kink's Like, that's
like a very deep thing that sometimes Americas aren't. You
would see it in Italian films, like so how many
like strange Vice of Missus Ward, that's what that movie
is about, Yeah, exactly, and like her vice is getting

(39:51):
hit with champagne bottles.

Speaker 4 (39:53):
I mean, whatever your kink is, I mean who knows,
But like, and that's.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
What's interesting here. Richard Gear was like king of these movies,
like between This and American Joelo, right, Like those are
both movies that I remember as a kid, my mom
saying don't watch these when they come on HBO, Like
when I would get these warnings and of like what
not to watch, and I would be like, dressed to
kills another one, and I'd be like, oh, but I
want to see that, like you know, like it looks
like a slasher movie and no, So a lot of

(40:19):
these movies I experienced first in Mad magazine because you know,
I wasn't allowed to watch them, so like that was
looking for mister Goodbar.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
And Mad Magazine is how I saw it.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
So now going back and seeing the actual film and
how does it stack up to the Drucker cartoon that
I saw is always an interesting experience. It's awesome that
they put this out right, because it's like, while it's
a studio film, it's also a studio film to keep similarly,
like you couldn't find easily and at the time that
this came up, especially Goodbar when this came out, it

(40:50):
was a watercore movie. It was a movie that discussed
and controversial, and it's like, like you said, it's nice
that this is back out there and exists in the world.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, well they there was even so so Utah was
exceptionally angry about this movie, and there was a there's
a really cool feature on this. It's a thirty minute
well I guess they're calling it a visual essay, but
there's a thirty minute essentially many documentary on the obscenity
trial that came that followed this movie. And I you know,

(41:21):
just because I understand how America works, I'm kind of
surprised there wasn't more of that because like the fact
that there the fact that Diane Keaton invites essentially like
light BDSM or or she invites that kind of sub
and dom relationship into her life and craves it and
openly wants it in the movie and doesn't fight it.

(41:43):
It's like a it can be very uncomfortable for people
that are more on that puritanical side of things, right,
because it's not only like a movie that shows it,
but it shows people like craving it. And I think
that that's just awkward for some people to see. They
don't want to they don't want to like recognize a
part of their personality.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
Right.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
I think also that some people win confronted by that.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
They say, well, this person's insane, Like that's the first
mindset of like why would somebody somebody want that? And
it's like, well, not ununderstanding that. It's like often the
submissive person is this power bottoming, but it's like they're
the person that is actually in charge, like they And
also it's like to me, like a lot of b
DSM makes more sense there's more consent within it than

(42:27):
because it's all about consent. It's about the contract that
you make with someone and having safe words. It's like
it's weird because the vanilla world seems like it would
have a lot to learn of, like how to approach
women in a proper way, do you know what I mean?
Or men? You know what I mean of like asking
for things versus like you know, So it's that's what's
interesting to me. And like Diane Keaton's like a major

(42:48):
at she's in you know, she's winning Oscar. She she's
in Woody Allen movies, and here she is in a
movie asking It brings it back to like the res
Myer movies like Beneza Value. The Ultro Fix is still
illegal to show in a high even today, Like there's
a whole doc on the Severn disk about it, Like
because you know a lot of times like they would
eventually stop fighting, like he spent millions defending that movie.
It's really why if you think about this like late seventies,

(43:12):
early eighties, like up until like when porn was legalized,
and how many lawsuits they went through and Larry Flint
went through, Like I always think it's interesting that we
don't have to agree with maybe some of the materials
that were fought over but like that they led to
like a personal more freedom of speech in our country,
and like the fact that these movies were out and

(43:33):
getting discussed, Like it's so funny today because like if
you compare looking to mister Goodbart too a movie like
Fifty Shades of Gray, that's like, that character is a
psychopath in that movie. He's not a good representation of
beaudsm But women see that, Oh it's so romantic that
they fell in love. Like, no, that guy's a lunatic,
do you know what I mean? Versus like Diane Keats's

(43:54):
character owning and what this is what she wants and
like that's there's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
That's actually not a terrible comparison because they were both
written by women as well. But I think that this,
the writing in Good Bar is just leagues better. I mean,
that's you know whatever, it's yeah, it's not fan fiction
enough of already shitty franchise. It's like, you know, it's
like it's a real novel, but it is. I'm it's I.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Was just gonna say, it's funny that like if you
think of where I always talk about there's a fine
line between art house and grindhouse, right, like it just
depends on where the theater is. Yes, And if you
think about it, like these same themes in Good Are
appear in erotic thrillers a lot, especially as we get
into like the Cinemax ones and the the VHS movies
I talked about in the video store that like weren't

(44:46):
in the porn section but had a sticker that said
you must be eighteen durant or. But these films, like
it felt like they were like a dirty secret, but
not as dirty as secret as porn. And like a
lot of these themes get played in these movies and
today like these movies are lost as well, and it's
like this is the only place that these discussions of
these themes. So now they happen in movies like Baby Girl,
the you know, the Nicole Kimman movie, and it's like, oh,

(45:07):
how groundbreaking. It's like, well, no, like good Bard did
that forty years ago. It's there. You can buy it
out from Vinegar Syndrome.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
But you don't you don't know if it's not if
it's not commonly available, right, So it's just going back
to point from earlier, like it's good good on them
for finding this and been public pushing it out. Yeah,
there is a really good commentary track on this that
kind of paints the history pretty well. And then they
actually do have a how long is it? Thirteen minute

(45:36):
interview with the author as well, so I think they
did a good job. And not to mention that the
essays in this are very well written. I particularly like
the Liz Purchell one, but they're all well written, so
I think, like, to me again, I'm never going to, like,
you know, suggest people spend money if they don't have it.
If you have the money and you're debating between limited

(45:57):
or standard, I don't think it makes a big difference
on this because the Standard has all the features except
for the booklet. But I would recommend this one being
something that you watch or potentially own. I like it
a lot.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
People ask me a lot like should I buy this,
and my advice is always, yeah, yeah, you should buy it,
because like I want you to put on the idea.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
I get that, like it's but I think that this one.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Especially like it feels like this is a kind of
more must buy for people because especially like this is
like film history.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
To me, I agree, he's out there, there's a there's
a h there's a Tom Bereinger tie between between Good
Bar and and Sliver, which I thought was kind of
cool because I was watching these in order and I
was like, oh, this is kind of like a Tom
Berenger month very disappointed he wasn't in the Keep, but

(46:50):
you know, yeah, I think as a you brought this up,
but as maybe a quick intro to Sliver, you know,
I knew. I would say I knew Tom Berenger most
from his kind of like war movies and like you know,
like the the action.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah, the substitute.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah right, But I like he he's a pretty good actor.
I have to give him credit. Like I think both
in Goodbar and in Sliver, like he really understands the
role and he and he kind of nails it.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Yeah. I it's funny because he's one of those actors.
If I bring him up to my wife, she like
size me, like, oh Tom Bringer. Like so the ladies
loved Tom Barringer too, Like he's he's not a bad
looking guy, you know what I.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Mean, Like he's a rough looking dude, but he's handsome
as hell. In Goodbar, like I kind of it was
the first time where I was like, Okay, I get it.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Yeah, I only think of him, you know again, it's
like major league Tom Baronshakley and like he's like he's
your focal point in that movie and the person that
like you follow and you know he's your so like
I always think him as a very trustworthy character from that,
So seeing him in goodbar is the exact like.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
It's it's a it's a strange revelation.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
He isn't a lot of erotic thrillers too, So like
I've been like kind of watching those this month. That's
been my theme, like that and Jallo on the site
this month, and yeah, and like seeing where he shows
up in those, it's like it's interesting that he's a
good person for those too, because like he can be
dangerous or he can he can be trusting. It's like
he's a good like he has a good like malability

(48:25):
to him.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Yeah, I agree. But the you know, somebody who I
would say not necessarily have malleability but still made it
pretty far unlimited talent would be Sharon Stone.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
She's a local for me, She's from my eerie PA,
so she's like I have a lot of theories on
Sharon Stone, like I love her.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
So yeah, no, she's great. She she I think she
found what she does well and like kept doing that thing.
So good on her.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
But I I she's the best foil to Michael Douglas ever,
like he found his thing, Like I'm kind of an asshole,
but you like me, and every woman wants to have
sex with me. That was like his role all through
the eighties and nineties, right for Summery, Like why do
we why in Fatal Attraction are we on his side?
Because he's a jerk, right, And it's like he's using

(49:20):
both his wife and and Glen Close and it's like, oh,
but well, because we're told that he's the hero, but yeah,
it was.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
Sharon Stone's a great person for that.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Like I also think my theory is if the Italian
film system was still working the way it was, that
she would be the Carol Baker of the nineties and
two thousands, Like she should have just gone to Italy
and made Shallow's right, Like I would love if that happened.
Like I don't want to see Sharon Stone in ads
for online games, Like when I saw her net One
ad for like slot games, I was like, oh, why

(49:50):
is this happening? Like this is what horrible timeline we
live and she should be getting menace by knives and
mess killers.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
No, I think it's it's it's particularly her stare to
me that I think she does a lot with her
eyes and her body is its own thing. And when
I was a teenager, that's what I knew best. Yeah,
But like as I get older a little bit and
I'm willing to look up past her shoulders, I see
that she actually does a lot of really good acting

(50:18):
with her eyes, and that's what I think she does
well in Sliver. I know Sliver gets a lot of
shit because it's not necessarily like the tightest script and fair.
That's fine, yeah, but like it's a pretty good thriller,
like it keeps you in suspense. I think it does
a good job of like introducing new ideas and kind
of you know, nuance of character.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
I don't hate it.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
I thought Sliver was a good movie. I was glad
to rewatch it.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Well felt noist to Dead Calm too, which is really great. Right,
And this is like I always think, like there's a
point in people's careers where eventually critics are gonna be like, yeah,
I've had enough, right, So, like obviously the Saint is
probably Sliver and the saying or probably for him where
people thought they had enough. But like Joe as her
House was do for a critical drumming at some point,

(51:02):
right because he had been making way too much money
on movies, and at this point I think he was
just He's like, oh, I have a bunch of concepts,
I'll just throw them together, like and on this he had,
you know, Ir Elevin's book to guide him. This movie
is like made by the scumming, Like between Joe Eserhouse
and Robert Evans, it's like one of my like my
writing styles one hundred percent Robert Evans. It's like Robert

(51:24):
Evans's writing style is like ask a question and then
answer it like an asshole. It's like, who knew that
somebody could make a movie about a high rise with
Sharon Stone having sex. We made the shit out of it,
Like that's how Robert Evans would say it, and like
but that's what I love about it, and like I'm fast.
The only thing I'm let down by this movie or
the extras is like you know that there's the whole

(51:44):
alternate ending of this movie and it's not on it,
And it's like the fact that they can even considered
that alternate ending, like that alternate ending with the volcano
would not test at all. I can see like this
is Robert Evans testing it and being like yeah, no way.
But like the fact that they even we're like yeah,
shoot it. And it's like it's got a lot of
effects and stuff in it, and but it's Sliver didn't

(52:06):
do well here, but like overseas, it was like a
huge deal and it was like one of the top
rented movies in ninety four. And I love it because
it's like it's very cold, like it's a tech movie,
like you know, you're watching things through screens, and like
it feels like if Sliver had been like Night Eyes too,
like nobody would. It's there's not any real difference outside
of the budget and the fact that you know, obviously

(52:29):
it's got a much better cinematographer with a film of
Sisman no shit, But there's not a lot of difference
between this and Night Eyes, Like it's like a movie
about sex and surveillance. But I love when Hollywood throws
money behind like a grindhouse idea and they're like, you know,
this movie costs forty million dollars to make Night Eyes

(52:49):
probably cost two million, if that right? Yeah, but it's like, yeah,
but I again, the special effect of this movie is
Sharon Stone. Like that's the like you said, if you
rented this, there would be big sections of it that
would be tracked out because dudes, fifteen year old dudes
were just watching two or three scenes in it. Exactly
did you know? Did you do snippet tapes? One of

(53:09):
my friends always talks about he would just make make
tapes of like this, this is the worst about these
are how horrible any women listening to the show. I
would like to apologize to you for dudes, right, But
like he would just dub scenes from movies he liked
onto tapes and it would just be like like that scene.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
In Mischief where she's making out with him in the car.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
It's like that scene, and then like the nude scenes
from Sliver, and then like a breast same video from
Lifetime that was on at four in the morning. Because
these are the like just like mom and dad the
talked aboutfore these were the only places he could find
nudity in a pre internet world, and he had these
tapes and like I talked to him a couple weeks
ago and he's like, I found one of my snippet tapes.
We should we should digitize it, put it online. Like here,

(53:50):
you know, you should not put your snippet tape online.
You have a job, Like you have a CEO job now,
like you got to protect that job. But I think
that's the thing, Like we're not in the world anymore
where I guess maybe outside Nicole Kidman, where people are like,
this movie is made for my sexual power, do you
know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (54:07):
Like Sharon Stone was like that kind of actress.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Yeah, she was. There's a few. Yeah, there's some young
actors coming up that are definitely like using their sexuality
I think for as an empowering thing. I think they
see it even though the culture is kind of moving
away from that. And I don't I'm not any kind
of cultural critic. I don't know if it's better or
worse or whatever, but I do think it's interesting that

(54:30):
each generation becomes like less openly sexual because even when
these movies came out, like you know, there's that joke
that before the Internet, everybody knew that Marilyn Manson had
two ribs taken out so he could give himself a blowjob.
Like there's certain stories.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
And also that he was Paul from the Wonder Years
and he was.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Paul from the Wonder Years. That there's certain stories that
just got around and like everybody knew about Sliver in
nineteen in the mid nineties, everybody, Oh yeah, like and
I have.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
This theory story too about that that like kids that
are grown up today aren't going to have a shared
culture because of how migmented media is. So how would
like you and I connected really quick on like, oh
we both love these same kind of movies, and this
conversation happened really easily. Are kids gonna be able to
have Maybe Sliver is't the best example, but a Sliver
to be like oh fuck Sliver, Yeah, cch pounders in that.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Yeah, Yeah, I don't know. I mean it's it's not
the same thing to talk about extracis on pornhob or
something that's that's not what Sliver is. It's different, right,
So yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
It was a movie that kids like did you have
those movies in school where like like kids like had
permissive parents or where the you know, like uh parents
a child of divorce And they were like, oh, well, yeah,
cool parents, you know, and they're like, oh, my dad,
let me watch Sliver and like, oh, what was it?
Like a Coligula was that movie? And she's I'm old,
I'm fifty two, and like cause there was one copy
of Coligil in my town that was a primetime video

(55:48):
and it was like up on the shelf, like must
be eighteen to rent. Some kids had seen it. The
Cligular they saw is not the movie that exists. Like
their version of Cligula had like the most mind blowing
shit in it that no movie has ever capped. It
was like worse than Solo. Like when they would tell
us what it was like and we would all gather
at the playground like yeah, and a girl gets shot
in her breast with a machine guy like this isn't

(56:10):
this a Roman movie? Like what is going on? And
like you know, but these movies.

Speaker 4 (56:13):
Got like almost like an urban legend status.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
I feel like Sliver was probably for some generation to
kids because it was sold as like this is a
dirty movie, but it's playing in theaters like almost like
a weird it's not porn or chic. I don't even know.
It's an erotic thriller, but like not one that you
had to feel bad about, like you could go out
in public and not on a trench coat and see this.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
In the exactly. I was surprised though the plot wise,
you know, because recently Vinegar Syndrome put out the Tenant
The Plant Schame.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Of You and Hm.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
I was surprised because plot wise, this is not too
far from that. I mean it's like that. That's what
kind of caught me off guard a little bit actually
seeing this whole movie with more of an open mind
to look watch it as a film. Like you said,
first of all, it was shut beautifully like it's it
uses shadows and dark blues and all those dark colors.

(57:05):
Well so that's one. But two, it's like it's pulling
from I think a lot of Italian movies, and it's
pulling from I think it's pulling from the Tenant. I
mean I don't know for sure, but it's a very
similar plot. Yeah, And like you just, I don't know,
Like there's there's a little there's enough there to kind
of latch onto to make it a movie that's not

(57:25):
bad to watch either, even beyond the lore.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Well, also it's interesting, is like Ira Eleven, who wrote
the book like if you look at what he did,
like it's I always think it's amazing, Like, yeah, we
talked about Stephen King, how many movies been made? But
like Ira Eleven wrote Rosemary's Baby, obviously, Stepford Wives, Boys
from Brazil, death Trap, and A Kiss Before Dying, Like
those are all movies that I like, do you know
what I mean? Like, and it's like wow, like that's

(57:50):
a lot of stuff like for one guy. And I'm
sure Sliver Josh Rahus did is a thing on Sliver,
but it seems like the Estherhouse Sharon Stone team like
works like across a bunch of movies and it's like
it's weird to like it almost like I always think,
like when does someone fall off like by basic instinct too.
People are like, yeah, we've seen the Sharon Stone thing,

(58:11):
and to me, it's like that's when it's time to
good to Italy and do the same thing. But like,
but yeah, there's a lot of Italian and Silver and yeah,
the Tenant is another one. I like. She also made
Scissors way before this and it's very similar where it's
about like someone inside an apartment buildings in love with
her and following her and seeing her like that like

(58:31):
cold starkness of like you're in this island, I guess,
almost a city within the middle of a city, do
you know what I mean? In this like ecosystem of
the tower, the building that she lives in. Yeah, and
someone's there and who is it? To me, that's fascinating,
Like I never got why people like people really disliked
this movie when it came out, and it just felt
like I said, it was the perfect time of like Okay,

(58:52):
it's time for Joe asser House, it's time for shar Stone.
It's you know what I mean, all these people in it,
like we've given them a pass for a long time,
like this is the time like where like oh again
again that's where the critical dropping comes. But to me,
it's like this is more interesting to me than maybe
based it's again instinct, like I think I like this
movie like but also it's like it's definitely like in

(59:14):
my wheelhouse of what I like, and I also like
when I also feel like I tend to if you
feel this way too, like if somebody, if everybody's against something,
I'm like, why like why are they bullying this thing?
Like maybe I should pay a little attention to it.
Sometimes it it's still bad. But like, I don't know,
I think this is good. I love the uh the
box for this of the Vender Syndrome did it? It's gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Yeah, they did a good job on the air.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
It's like the artwork that this movie always deserves.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Yeah, they captured the tone of the film perfectly. No,
I agree with you on I think there is something
to be said for going back and revisiting these movies
that are kind of universally hated and just saying like, Okay,
well why like it? Just for the same reason that
most Catholics hate, like movies that have sex in it,

(59:59):
they'll never see. I think a lot of people that
don't like certain movies they don't actually watch them. They
just sort of like to pile on, or if they
do watch it, they kind of have watch it just
to be able to find out way to shit on it.
But like, I don't know, there's there's good stuff in
some of these.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Yeah, it's isn't that weird? It's like I got and
the reason I got into a lot of horror movies
too is being growing up Catholic, Like the Pittsburgh Catholic
used to put out like they'd have the list from
the diocese and from the church itself, Like what movie's
got the the the O rating, the morally offensive rating,
thee eighty one morally offensive list is the best lineup

(01:00:38):
of movies ever.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
I was gonna say that, it's like your lineup.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
Oh my Amity. Vill two is one of my favorite
movies right because it's the most Italian movie ever made
in the US and like they we literally had the
bishop gave us a message about it in church that
no Catholic should see this movie. It's morally reprehensible. It
is a super anti Catholic movie. Like, but it's also
made by director that made political movies in Italy and
didn't usually make horror movies, and so there's a lot

(01:01:05):
of like classesm and stuff in it. It's great, it's
a scummy movie too, but it's like I love like
and seeing these like, well, why are these movies in
this list? Like why shouldn't I see these? And like
being told that you can't see them like leads you
to and in the same way, like being told that
this is bad and sometimes it's true, like like the
Village People movie Can't stop the music is a horrible movie.

(01:01:26):
I've watched it thousands of times right to figure out
why it's horrible. Like but on the other hand, like
something like Sliver is and I like when movies get reevaluated,
except when they get too reevaluated, like Halloween three has
been reevaluated to the point that it's swung to the
other direction where too many people like where people like it,
and I feel like anti gate keep about it where

(01:01:47):
it's like, well, where were you when it came out
and everybody hated it, you know what I mean? And
now and now like it's like people are like, well
they haven't even It's the opposite where they haven't even
seen it, and it's cool to like it because some
celebrit he likes it, or somebody online parroted it, and
like you can tell when people I had a friend
that used to just he would read Spin magazine to
tell you what's hot, right like when they would do,

(01:02:09):
they're like, here's the new bands, oh kashoot and we
would just know, like you'd be pick parroting points. I
saw a copy of Spin on the stands, a new
one like for the first seven years at the airport
in Dallas, and I was like, I should buy that
from my friend because he's been so behind on bands
now he's in his fifties, Like he needs this to
like get back it, you know, get back into it.

(01:02:30):
That's the really weateest bullshit way of saying it. But
do what I mean, Like, I think I do want
people to discover these movies and not go. But I
always tell people like I hate when I don't know
if you've read into this where people are like should
I watch this? And they post that on social like, yeah,
you should watch it, because even if you hate it,
then you're establishing a new valley that you didn't have before,
Like you're building your own personal peaks and valleys and
your own cannon that you and I talked about before.

(01:02:52):
So you should watch it. You shouldn't need someone to
sell you on it or tell you about it. I'll
still read what people say about it, but I want
to experience it because I'm coming into it in the
same way that we see appreciate. We experience each person
from our own unique point of view, and nobody experiences
the same person, right because we're all different people. It's
the same way with movies, Like I'm gonna come into
a movie and get something completely different out of it

(01:03:14):
than you are. I was super deep.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Sorry, no, I love it, man, I was just thinking
of I was just trying to think of how to
phrase this. But I think we can't go We can't
be where we are in terms of having seen Night
Trained to Terror and appreciating it without seeing a lot
of movies that we hated, right, And I don't know
if you're unwilling to sort of take that leap and say,

(01:03:40):
I don't care if I like it or not. I
just want to see a movie and like it's not
a waste of time. It's not like two hours I
can't get back in my life, like, none of that.
You just watch the movie. If you hate it, you
know more about yourself. If you love it, you know
more about yourself, right, And like they're both equally important
and help me understand what you like and don't like.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
Well, every movie is a miracle too, write that it
even got done. So even if you watch it and appreciate, like, well, man,
they had it. How many camera setus did they do?
And like you get into if it's bad, like that's
what I do if a movie is starting to you know,
because how many movies we had to set through for
significant others to turrun dates, and it's like what can
I take out of this especially and and and maybe

(01:04:25):
there is something that you end up finding, like wow,
there's like value in this movie. It's weird because.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
People go, sorry, no, just on that point. I always say,
I'll defend Love actually, and I get I get all
the reasons why people don't like it. I get it,
but like that movie's just it knows exactly what it is.
It's kind of like parodying itself in a way, but
like it's not obnoxious about it. Like it's not like
those stupid not another teen movie like those kind of things.

(01:04:49):
It's more it's smarter than that. And I'll defend it, man,
I think it's great and I will not.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
We should do a whole podcast about about this back
and forth on it because I have a very particular
reason for hating that movie.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Okay, fine, well maybe I can come on the NS
or you can come on yeah the film and we
can just we can just talk Love. Actually.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
It's a it's a it's like a sad story about
my life. Not a romantic reason, but like a monetary,
uh business reason. So yeah, we'll do it because I've
never seen it, right, So like again, so I'm guilty
of the same thing, like I just don't like and
maybe i'm judging it, like, well, it's just like one
of these, you know, four weddings in a funeral kind
of movies that I've been forced to watch, And it's

(01:05:33):
probably not from hearing what you say. And also like
I think that that's what happens. Happens if you know
somebody like just getting to meet you and talk to you.
You know, we've talked through chat and stuff, but now
getting me to talk like I respect your movie opinion.
So when I hear that from someone, it's like cool,
maybe I should reevaluate where I'm at with it and
maybe not be So I think that's something that happens
in people's career. It's the same way as like if

(01:05:54):
you like metal bands, right, You're like, there's a time
when you're young and you're sixteen, you're like, well, if
it's not like Slayer or as heavy as that, it's
bullshit cool. But like maybe these other bands have good songs,
Like maybe you can have synthesizers on songs and still
be cool. Like if I was like anti synth like
I was in a sixteen, I would never like Goblin
or like, you know, all the other stuff that I'm
into now or zombie and it's like it's just trying

(01:06:17):
to So yeah, even today, maybe maybe we don't have
to fight about it, but even today it wouldn't be
interesting to talk out love actually, though, I think that
that's a funny one where people I would not expect
that from oh yeah, the host of Vinegar Centron podcast
and the dude that only talks about Italian softcore porn,
but love actually.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
I will say, though I have to preface to see
whether I have a weird part of my personality. I
think everybody has that one thing that's just like comfort
food and they don't care if people hate it. But
like the like the only I don't really watch TV
anymore because I just don't have time with the movies
I'm watching. But the only TV show I always make
time for is the Great British Baking Show, The Great

(01:06:53):
British Tacoff. It's just like this perfect mix of like
sort of quaint low steaks, terrible jokes. Yeah, but like
it's just very soothing to me and I could watch
so like keep that in mind before you agree to
talk to me about love. Actually, because I have a son.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
My watch that show. She watches at about sixteen hours
a day every day, like I finally. Also, the one
dude on it always wears like argenta shirts.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
No, yeah, he's great though, he's he's a well known
sort of like goth like legend.

Speaker 4 (01:07:25):
Yeah, who is just taking I watch mightighty Boosh and
some of the other Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
I love that show because, like in an American reality show,
like everybody wants to destroy each other, right, and they're
like sabotaging each other. And on that show, it's like
if somebody's cake isn't coming out right, like someone pitches
in and they come over and say, oh, I'm so
sorry things aren't going well for you, and it's like
such a genial like in our like cynical.

Speaker 4 (01:07:48):
Meanwhile, I'm totally with you on this.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Right when I've watched it, I'm like, this is such
like it's almost like a soul bath. Yes, yes, yes,
it's like it feels good, like this is how we
should be too. Yeah with you on that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
You've been in a competition, all right, Well, moving along,
we are up to Vs. Four eighty seven, which is
one that just kind of blew my mind a little bit.
They actually put out twelve thousand of a limited edition
of The Keep. And you know you've been I know

(01:08:23):
you've been collecting for a while. Did you used to
collect those old Anchor Bay limited editions?

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
Oh yeah, I still have them like it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
Those are like I won't get rid of some of them, yeah,
I mean, you know what I mean, because especially if
like I go, if you go to I don't know
if you have like half price books around you, I
think you guys, we do. Yeah, And like here, like
a lot of people, you can tell when new four
k's come out because people bring back their stuff. And
like the old Anchor Bay cases, the cases themselves, the
plastic cases are like bulletproof. They're so thick, like do

(01:08:52):
you know what I mean? Like today's DVD cases like
you get like a mass market one at Walmart, they
have like the holes kind of them and they're so
and it's like and I just love an Anchor Bay case.
And like there's so many movies that came out from
Ancro Bay that I've just kept, even if I have,
like you know, the newer copies of it. I think
I still have Demons and a few other ones that
like came out like that because those copies, like you know,

(01:09:14):
that was the only way to get those back in
the day. So I feel like some like some connection
to them where I don't want to get rid of it.
And if I really love a movie, like I'm gonna keep,
like you know, sometimes space becomes an issue. But you know,
it's kind of cool to see, like, oh, here's all
the ones that I've owned across the life of this film,
Like New York Ripper. I definitely have seven or eight

(01:09:36):
different cops, you know what I mean, from like VHS
up too.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, Well, the joke was that Anchor Bay
was built on the shoulders of Army of Darkness and
equal dead right. They had like eight editions of it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
But everybody that has the Latex book one it's I
saw people posting there's like because it's starting it's old
enough now that it's starting to fall apart. No, no, no,
it's true. It's so true.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
I opened mine up finally. I mean it's it's not
like it's been in plastic. I've watched it like ten times,
but not in a while. Yeah, And so I went
back and I opened it up, and it definitely is
creaking a little bit more than I'm comfortable with, I know, and.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
It's like I don't I don't have that one, and
it's like I always would worry if I had it,
Like I don't want to touch it and I don't
want to run because I that's the thing too, Like
I really like the intricate Severn box sets, but I
also know if I open these up too much, like
it's going to start falling apart, not no fault of theirs,
like their quality, like I have. I just got this
old Hitchcock box set and like pieces are falling out

(01:10:32):
of it because whoever had it for me didn't take
care of it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
But so yeah, the one the best ones, the most
bulletproof ones are those old Mill Creek ones where it
would just stam fifty plastic sleeves in like a case
in like a middle case.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
I don't know if you've noticed this. I know we
get to keep in a second bag. I love Mill
Creek collections right because I always do like a Mill
Creek Month on my site in November and like get
different writers to write because it's like, hey, there's fifty
movies on this and like some of those like Frank
Is eighty was that was the only way to get
it for a long time was in there, and like
I discovered a lot of movies through those releases, and

(01:11:08):
like now there's so much more expensive at youth stores.
They used to be able to get them for two
three bucks. Now they're like thirty forty bucks. I was
at a half price where they were teaching a new
employee like how to buy stuff, and this one kid
was like being super elitist as he was like training him.
He's like, if anybody brings in those mill Creek fifty sets,
nobody wants those. No, no true lover of film wants

(01:11:29):
a mill Creek set on their shelf. And I was like,
I'm gonna punch this dude in the throat, like you
know what I mean. And I was thinking about, oh, man,
I have all of them, like and I've like hunted
down some of them, you know, because like.

Speaker 4 (01:11:39):
I like to have.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
It's funny now that mill Creek's like a more reputable company,
do you know what I mean? Like they're putting out
like the movies.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
And stuff them and Kia. They're trying to like go
upmarket a little bit, you know, like it's always going
to be a Kiya but I yeah, but they're but yeah,
they've definitely gone away from the you know, the ones
that I watched the most of from them. I probably
saw twenty or twenty five of the spaghetti westerns they
had in one of those.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
I love those sets. I have all though. Those ten
thousand Ways to Die in the West sets that they did, Yeah,
well those are great because like if you think about
Italian westerns, don't outside of Arrow, nobody's really putting those out.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
It feels like a Blue Underground and Arrow, Yeah, those
are the only are that are spending any time on it.
And even even Blue Underground they have like a Kioma,
but they're not necessarily doing much with it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
Yeah, I know. And it's like, if you know, once
you start to get into the filonias of Italian cinema,
like the same people that are in those movies are
in Jallo and they're in Italian Gothics, like you know
what I mean, it's the same crews and the same actors,
and it's like often like and some of them, like
Django if you love Shoot, like that's a total horror movie.

(01:12:49):
Like it's great. Yeah, and like, uh, I think that
it ubsessed me sometimes that people don't get is into
those where it's like we're gonna have and I realized,
like again we talked about this earlier, like the the
money end of it, but yeah, you're gonna always sell
like they could put out Demons. I mean I'm gonna
buy it every time too, So I'm not gonna be

(01:13:09):
as skilledy as anybody, right, but like how many times
are Demons going to come out in our lifetime? And
and you know, I know that for whatever the next
media is, like Suspiria should come out, Like there's certain
movies that should come out, But like I would like
we talked about Police Academy before, Like I'd like a
really great quality version of that so that it's up
to the next format and not just the DVD sets

(01:13:31):
that I have.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Yeah, I mean they technically do have a Blu ray,
but I didn't even bother checking if they upscaled it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
I mean I don't think they know. I don't think.
But that's the thing is like maybe you and I
might be the only people that are like like a
really hot four k UHD of Police Academy three cents
on patrol and like I want David Spade to talk
on it. I want to tell you to talk about
doing the stunts like I like, I want to go
deep like and I want I want to force like
the really like high end people that do commentary tracks,

(01:13:59):
you know, I want them to have to I want,
like Stephen Thrower to have to talk about Police Academy.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
And you know what I mean, I love Stephen Thrower.

Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
I'm not throwing them under the bus, but like you know,
I want to get him and like a cat and
a few other people to be like, yeah, like what
are what's the what's the how was life different for
Police Academy and like you know, then yeah, maybe like
I saw every one of these at the drive in,
like you know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
But honestly, though, like you know, it's so easy to
look back at silent films and say, like, Okay, we
need to make sure those are preserved because we've already
lost a seventy five percent or whatever, like some staggering
number is already gone, which is crazy, but you know,
we like there's certain like when the Police Academy movies
came out, I mean, it's easy to snicker at them now, yeah,

(01:14:44):
but I mean they were on top of the world, man, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
Oh, at least the first four ward yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean they had a toy line and a cartoon
and yeah, all this stuff, and it's it's so weird that,
like this is my favorite eighty cycle where stuff comes
out and it's R rated, like Swamp Thing or Police
Academy or RoboCop and then like somewhere along and it's
always counter right because we talked about you know, I know,

(01:15:07):
we'll get to another movie that Kenner did stuff for.
It's a Vinegar Centril release, and it's like Kenner's like, yeah, like,
let's do RoboCop figures and like, do get shot in
the dick in that movie yet?

Speaker 4 (01:15:16):
Yeah, yeah, but we'll do figures in the same way.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
It's like, you know, there were Toxic Adventure figures and
uh yeah, I just got the box out of the
cartoons from that they put out, and like it's crazy
that like all these movies like kind of had in
Police Academy, the first one is like really filthy in
a great way. It's it's it's closer to like Animal
House and Porkys than it is like and all those
movies got kind of watered down, but it's that's the

(01:15:40):
same thing, like I think the other This is what
draws me this month of why I've been watching erotic
thrillers and why sometimes I'll do like a whole month
of just like Porky's ripoffs and like sex comedies, because
like nobody's talking those movies aren't getting rereleased that often,
do you know what I mean? Like, and there's no
real like call for them. So to me, it's like, well,

(01:16:01):
if nobody's talking about those or writing about them or
releasing them, like there's like a gold mine maybe of
those movies, like Mike mcpadden did obviously, like his you know,
the book he did on them.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
Was amazing, Like that was like such an inspiration.

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
To me of like look at looking back at these movies,
because I think both erotic thrillers and the Porky style
movies are in slashers too. These are like disreputable movies
that are junk and we're released for teenagers. But like
it meant something to us at a time, Plice Academy
meant something those at a time, and like it's like
let's go back and reevaluate it and it's like if
it also I feel the same way, like if it

(01:16:35):
entertains you, then that's all it needs to do. And
I'm like, if you laugh at a Police Academy movie, like,
isn't it it's doing its job? Does it have to
be highbrow? Like do I have to walk away from
it feeling like elevated or feeling do you know what
I mean? Like that?

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
No, I know exactly what you mean. I've got I
have two.

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
I have a weird.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
Relationship to comedies because they don't laugh a ton. But yeah,
there's two things that'll really get me. One is like,
did you ever see Sick of Myself? That Norwegian I
believe film from uh christ Christopher Berkeley Bargy. Yeah, yeah,
like that movie. I was just like dying, like I
I as soon as I can tell that someone's going

(01:17:15):
to places like that from a comedy place and and
willing to like really look hard at the culture and
and really look hard at like the insanity that we
see every day. Or like there's a Danish movie called Cloven.
It look it's it's written like clown mm hmm. It's
like that kind of stuff will give me. It's super dark,

(01:17:36):
like pitch dark comedies that will give me, and then
the other one is just like super dumb, like like
Police Academy or like I grew up on the Adam
Sandler movies and like I don't I don't care if
they're good or not. Like I'm sure if you watch
them for this first time now you're like what the fuck?
But yeah, like I don't know, it just it was
it was way too close to me for too long
to care. I guess at this point.

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
Well you also you're you're seeing these movies at a
time when you haven't formed a critical bias yet.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Yeah, yeah, I always.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
I always think too. It's like when did we go?
And and we I mean, I'm going back to the
first movies that played, right, how did they go from
the great train Robbery plays and people a running out
of the theaters thinking it's magic and they're going to
get hit by the train. Because suddenly we have critics
like this movie's boring, Like two years ago, you thought
that train was going to hit you, you know what
I mean? Like, how were we so? How did we

(01:18:28):
become so inured to magic so quickly? And I think
about it as a kid, like that's why like whenever
you talk to somebody, this is how like I know
people I can hang out with, Like if I bring
up like Godzilla movies, if they say, oh, this is
just dudes in rubber suits fighting, and I'm like, okay,
Like you don't have any imagination and you had a
horrible childhood, do you know what I mean? And it's

(01:18:49):
like hopefully you don't feel that way, and I'm not
insulting you, but you.

Speaker 4 (01:18:52):
Know, it's like, dude.

Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
And also like I realized that the same lack of
biases I had as a kid to Godzilla are the
same now because even now I thought when I was
a kid, I'm like, well, at some point I'm going
to grow up in all this adult moments, like the
human moments and gods all will make sense to me
and I'll get a deeper, richer story. I do not
give a shit about any human beings in any of
these movies. Like I just want to see monsters fight

(01:19:15):
and like, let's get to it, you know what I mean.
It's like almost like a porn watching of it, Like
I just want to see the monster shots. But yeah,
it's it's interesting to me of like what is worthy
of being in a cannon. That's kind of what I'm
hoping for some of the VSA stuff is like what
are some of those like big Video era movies that

(01:19:38):
were comedies that were a big deal, and like Era
has been doing some of that, like they put out
the Nico Master. I guess that they had like Ninja
Academy and sky High and a few other movies that
were cool on it. Yeah, And it's like, but those
movies like while nobody really talked about, like a lot
of people ranted those and a lot of people watch
those in HBO And it's like, especially if you had

(01:19:59):
HBO and A when there were five channels, Like I
think we talked about it before, Like there's certain movies
that like we're on all the time, Like Flash Gordon's
one of them. Like that's why it's big for people
my age because it was on non stop. But you
can watch it every night and you're like, oh, that's
an HBO movie. We talked about that a lot on
our show, like, oh that one, what do you call it?

Speaker 4 (01:20:19):
Yeah, it's alive.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
There's another one that was on a lot, and The
Beast Within and these are like but like if only
if you had this channel, for this set amount of
time and you were at this age. But if you were,
and you know, you can always figure out who these
people are if you talk about tv guide and like
did you circle things in tv Guide and like preset
your week and figure out when what movies run, like
because we didn't have a VCR, so you I secretly

(01:20:45):
set my alarm to wake up at two forty five
in the morning to watch an Emmanuel movie on a
Thursday night and then be exhausted the whole next day
in school. Would you find somebody else that went through that,
You're like, yeah, this is this is it?

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
But anyway, the keep but well, actually last thing on
the point. You know, it's interesting because we I think
we it's easy to forget that we have a very
niche love for movies because like my in laws, my
wife's parents or ex wife's parents. But sorry, it's just
getting used to saying that, but she they love watching movies,

(01:21:21):
like like they watch movies all the time, and like
for me, like they watch just dog shit. Like it's
just like like they just literally whatever Netflix puts out,
like they watch. But if you were just to sit
them down and like go through number of movies they've
seen they have a huge like like they've seen a

(01:21:41):
ton and they vaguely remember it and like I'll hear
them cackling out there to like I don't even know,
I can't even name anybody. Just random comedy number number twelve, yeah,
came out and like, you know, I just don't know
if I don't know where those I don't know where
those comedies sit in a collector's mind because the art
house crowd is kind of too good for Adam Sandler,

(01:22:03):
which fine, and the genre crowd don't. I mean, they
might buy it, but it's just not I don't know,
like it kind of sits comedies sit in this weird place,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
Well, It's like I felt the same way about like
Jerry Lewis as a kid that i'd always hear like
what a genius he was. And then we went to
see Hardly Working in the theater and I was like,
I don't get it. I just did. I was like,
it's full of the product placement and it's very depressing. Yeah,
And like I don't know if today, if I watch it,
I feel different because I know a lot more about
you know, how he like innovated, he didn't invent it,

(01:22:34):
but he innovated using video assists and how much he
was doing himself, and like maybe I would enjoy it
more for the technical aspects, but like again it's like, yeah,
I don't know. I'm trying not to be a leadist
in my life, and I can see like sometimes a
popcorn movie is fun, but I feel the same maybe
you feel the same way. It's like if I have
two hours, and we have how many hours in our lives,
like not many, right in a great scheme of things.

(01:22:56):
Would I rather watch something and I know that I'm
really gonna love or something that's gonna challenge me, Or
would I rather just watch something that ten thousand other
people are watching? And do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Like, so I as a challenge one for me?

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
Yeah, the time, And sometimes you've in our lives we
have to compromise, especially if we're with somebody and it's like, well,
these are the things that they want to watch. You
have to kind of find something within them within those.
But the hardest thing back in the day was like
when you were on when you're dating somebody and you
go to the video store and you would realize six
months into dating and that like your movie likes were

(01:23:29):
completely opposite.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
Pot damn it.

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
Yeah, And it's like funny, like one of the first
dates I had with my wife when we were dating,
like I went to her house to pick her up
and she's like, hey, I got to go finish do
my makeup. She's like I was, I got stuck watching
this movie and just I forgot how much I like it.
And it was like the remake of The Blob. And
I've never had a dated somebody that even knew that
there was a remake of The.

Speaker 4 (01:23:49):
Blob, much less had seen it. Oh it is, and like,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
She loves it, and like, uh, she's she can talk
movies really well, especially like eighties through nineties Slashers and
that's awesome. Yeah. So yeah, so it's like, uh, I
was like wow, Like I remember texting the guitarist and
the bandits at the time. I'm like, so, you know,
I'm going out with that really hot Groun'm like, she's
watching The Blob. He's like you should get married right.

Speaker 4 (01:24:12):
Now and just just figure out.

Speaker 3 (01:24:15):
He's like, yeah, just do it because he's like you're
not going to find that again.

Speaker 4 (01:24:19):
Like she has a doctor five's tattoo.

Speaker 3 (01:24:20):
I mean, I don't know where I'm going to find
that again, do you know what I mean? As well
as being a really supportive, cool person. Yeah, and it's
like it takes. I think it's hard too, and you
have this collector's mentality. It was cool because like she
came in to this relationship with a lot of DVDs too,
and like so a lot of times, like you know,
we'll actually go to like sales and stuff and be

(01:24:41):
looking for movies like specific stuff to fill out our collection. Yeah,
she's not is into like the Vinegar Syndroom sever and stuff,
but like if there was a new like when it
comes to like you know, even if it's weird, even
if she doesn't like a movie, like she comes around
to them. Like she's finally come around to Long Legs
after saying it like three or four times, and she's
like and she's like, I'll get that when it comes

(01:25:02):
down and price, Like I don't feel bad buying it
for this, But I think that's why she likes physical media,
because it lets her form a different opinion after watching
a movie multiple times, which is cool, right because and
especially the other thing that we really love about it
is so many times people come and stay at our house.
I'm like, oh, we should watch this movie and it's
not anywhere, it's not streaming anywhere, or it costs an
exerminent so I'm like, oh, we have that, And then

(01:25:24):
anyone that makes fun of us, inevitably when they stay
with us for a couple of days, they're like, oh wow,
like that's why you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
Guys have all these exactly, So like you.

Speaker 3 (01:25:32):
Know, they're were like, you know, they're like, We're never
gonna watch all these I'm like, yeah, but I might.
And it's like just looking at them. I don't know
if you get that feeling, Like the fact of just
staring out and seeing I'm looking across at my shelves
now is like a really cool feeling. So I can
see some of those like anchor based stuff and I
can see you know, and like almost everything has like
this if it wasn't something I ordered. There's a lot

(01:25:53):
of like youth stuff or like hard to find stuff
where it was like, oh, that was an adventure to
get that movie, Like I remember where I got that,
and that's something that's not gonna happen when you buy
something on streaming.

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
No, for me, it's very simple. Like when I was
growing up, people had libraries, and like if somebody had
an impressive library of books, you would never say like, well,
you know, just get it on your kindle. You lose her,
Like there was like I mean, first of all, they
didn't have kindles, but like that that sentiment was never
It just wasn't there of like why are you collecting

(01:26:25):
a thing that you have to hold and like touch,
because none of there's something about books that like makes it,
you know, more like academic or something I don't know,
more impressive. But like it's the same thing for me.
I if I I hate doing it because it sounds
like I'm being a dick, but like I don't call
it a collection technically, I call it my library for
this school, just for the same reason because like this

(01:26:47):
is kind of like it's the same thing for me,
Like I I love this stuff and I want to
be able to hold it and like open up a
booklet and like I don't know, like yeah, I just
I like having it. Like I don't think it needs
another explanation, you know, like like even in Game of
the Thrones, you know, if you want to take it there,
like they there was a group of people that were
there kind of guarding like the last you know, remaining library. Right,

(01:27:09):
It's just like you cherish old information. And for me,
I don't. I like books and I read when I can,
But for me, movies are that way that I access
creativity and like access that deeper thought and stuff as
opposed to reading. And so that's why I do it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:26):
No, that's that's a great reason. And I think that's
the really cool thing is like, especially with you, like
thinking through your thoughts on the stuff that you buy
from Vinegar Syndrome on the show, You're like trying to
put like what are the personal reasons why this one?
And like maybe not every book or you know, movie
that you see, you know in your library means as
much you but the ones that do, it's like, well,
that's why it's in here. I think about that a

(01:27:48):
lot of times when I go through, and I sometimes
like you know, like I'm I can see now that
I'm running out of room on these shelves, right, So
it's like what do I take out? And what do
I double up? You know what I mean? And what
stuff move around? And it's hard because it's like, uh,
and I have to use that like what brings me joy?
Do you know what I mean? Thing, It's like do
I really need this? Do I need?

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:28:09):
You know, and it's it's hard, especially when it's like
you know, you know that you hunted for something for
a while. But then the cool thing is like we
do that driving event and like everybody just brings.

Speaker 4 (01:28:18):
It's an obsession. It should be.

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):
I'm bringing stuff to trade with people to get it
out of my house, right, but inevitably come back with
twice as much stuff. All these we're all collectors that
all meet up at this, right, so we all bring stuff.
It's like all my wife wanted me to get rid
of it, like these two crates worth of movies and
like me too, so we just like I think we're
just literally moving moving movies across back and forth to
each other.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
That's awesome. Well, I don't really know the best segue
into that other than you it's you know, I think
that we kind of mentioned finger syndrome a few times.
And they are also doing a good job of chronicling
stuff that could easily be forgotten. And it's crazy to
think of a Michael Mann movie potentially being forgotten. But

(01:29:02):
like the keep was kind of right there on the
edge for a while. Like a lot of people that
are under twenty five have never heard of it, or
if they have heard of it, they haven't seen it.
Like this has been a tricky one.

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
You can see the divide between people's ages and also
like whether they're just buying vinegar syndrome stuff for collectibility
and selling later reselling, which is fine, I mean that's
it's a product, or buying it further collections because the
movie means some to them, and like the Facebook groups
because of the key, because there's so many people like
I don't know why this is so important? Why did

(01:29:34):
everybody go crazy for it? Why did it sell out? Yeah?
Like but then like, oh, you haven't been to the
conventions where like I have a bootleg, a VHS bootleg
dumped onto DVD. That's the one that I've.

Speaker 4 (01:29:43):
Had for years, right right, and it's but on the
other hand.

Speaker 3 (01:29:47):
Like VHSPS puts those out and I kind of dig
that because it has like I miss like either my
collection is stuff that's pristine, you know four k's that
you know, this is the best copy to see that,
or they're like returns to ancient you know, tracking lines
and warm, warmness and fuzziness of vhs, which sometimes I want,

(01:30:08):
and like that's how I have my copy to keep
right now until I get the new one. And like
that was a movie that was on collector you know,
on tables at cons all the time because you couldn't
get it, and you know, it was an excitement to
have it, especially because you know there are a lot
of Michael mannon there's either Michael Man fans.

Speaker 4 (01:30:24):
And also it's a strange movie. It's like a movie
that is like.

Speaker 3 (01:30:28):
At it, I don't know if it has a category.
Is it a warm movie? Is it like a folk
horror movie? Is it just weird? Is it a tangerine
Juray movie? Which that's another reason why people want it,
you know what I mean. So it's like the younger
folks are like, yeah, I got it, but I don't
understand what the big deal is it, whereas is like
people like i'd say our age, like we're pretty close
to the same age bracket, Like people are yeah, like

(01:30:50):
our generations like, oh shit, I've wanted to keep for
so long, you know what I mean, Like I'm getting it.
This is day one purchase, and it's like a big
deal to us, and it's like, that's really interesting me
and I think because it was lost because you know,
they know Michael Mann, but maybe they I think there's
also that we kind of touched on it before that
how big is Vinegar centrom getting there? Some people, I'm
sure like, well, Michael Mann's like a you know, a

(01:31:13):
mainstream director, like he makes blockbusters or he makes you know,
major movies that my parents know, you know what I mean,
Like why do I need The Keep? And it's like, well,
here's the history and something like it's beyond just like
how good is the movie. It's like sometimes like this
is an artifact that like in an important film from
an important director that hasn't been available, and that's a
cool reason to own it beyond just like it's a

(01:31:34):
neat movie too.

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
In case anybody listening is like, what the hell these
guys talking about? I think the thing that I like
about the way we're talking about The Keep is it
kind of turned into this conversation about nostalgia and like
the importance of these movies that are important to you,
and I mean that theme is there. That theme is
why they were able to put out twelve thousand of

(01:31:57):
these and it seld out like instantly, because this is
way beyond people reselling it for EBA. This is a
lot of people that heard the keep was coming out
and like went to go find the place that was
putting out the keep and bought it. And I bet
you they bought some They found some new customers that way,
you know, because I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:32:17):
They definitely did, because I know, like my father in
law wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:32:21):
We took him to a few horror conventions, but it's
not like something he would seek out. But like I
remember when he saw that I had a copy to keep.
One time he's going through my movies, He's like, where'd
you get this? Like I used to watch this all
the time on HBO and I might just get it. I'll
get you a copy of it. So I think if
he knew, you know, that it was out, like I
could see people be like, oh yeah, I watched it
all the time on HBO or like I had the
VHS of it, and it's like to me, it's like

(01:32:44):
to some people, I think they might be like, well
is that really Vendger Centrum's about to bring in all
these like newbies or people that don't know all these
directors are have this deep love of strange, transgressive sent
them out like or no, Like sometimes it's just getting
people excited and gatekeeping and maybe they will learn different
things and be excited about stuff. That's how I will

(01:33:04):
get out of this.

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
I mean, I you know, this is going to be
sound way overally simplistic. But if they can make five
hundred thousand dollars selling the keep, I don't care because like, yeah,
they we're going to talk about Blood Tracks next, which
is four eighty eight, and we can just talk about
these together because you know, they did not have twelve

(01:33:26):
thousand copies of Blood Tecks, right, it was their typical
four to five thousand, And they're going to sell that
out eventually, which is great. But like by them putting
out Sliver Looking for Mister Goodbar, which is another one,
I mean, we already talked about it, but that was
another one that was you know, not available for a
long time, right, So they're hitting this nostalgia in a
certain way, and by by getting it and then by

(01:33:50):
making a ton of money on these ones that tend
to be the kind of big budget movies that people
like us like, then they were able to do Blood
trucks and they're able to go deep and do neither
the scene nor the sand, which we'll talk about in
a minute. Like and that's I think Vinegar Syndrome was
kind of becoming both and I'm fine with it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
But it's kind of like the Cannon model because like
Cannon made was known for these Bronze and Chuck Norris movies,
but they also put out Cassavetti's movies, right, and like
they put out King Lear and uh, you know, like
Tough Guys Don't Dance with another great Vinegar Syndrome released,
Like yeah, yeah, they put out a lot of these
movies that like where they gave major talents like more

(01:34:33):
freedom than they ever had in Hollywood, And it was
built on the backs of these movies that were critically
derided and seen as junk.

Speaker 4 (01:34:40):
And it's like sometimes that's what has to happen.

Speaker 3 (01:34:42):
Like it's the same way in advertising, like something you
do a lot of junk stuff so that you can
do a passion project and you have the time and
energy and maybe can work with people that you met
from doing the junkie projects to do something not to
any movie junk, Like someone loves every movie, but.

Speaker 4 (01:34:59):
Like you know, yeah, but I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (01:35:02):
I think that that's like it's a good business model.
And it's like if they are respiked, they shouldn't expect
like some movies to sell like tough Guys don't dance
their pressires, expect that to sell twelve thousand copies, But
I think there are a couple thousand, like Cannon fans
that want it, and also people that are like.

Speaker 4 (01:35:19):
Oh wow, this is almost like a Lynch movie but.

Speaker 3 (01:35:22):
Even maybe weirder and it doesn't make any sense, and
it's like this was like a major studio, as big
as Canon As at the time, it was a pretty
major release, and it's just a wild movie. I love
that they can do that, and if if certain movies
have to sell, Like people were so upset about Rad
when Rad got picked, and I'm like, one, I don't
know if you understand how big Rad was when it
was only like you could not get that movie in

(01:35:45):
my hometown. They probably had like ten copies at my
mom and pop.

Speaker 4 (01:35:47):
They were always out, like it was impossible to get read.

Speaker 3 (01:35:50):
You had to put money down so you didn't steal it,
like it was that kind of movie, and like, you know,
so like to me when they put rad Out, I
was like, no, this if you are truly embracing the
nostalgia in the video store era, of course that's a
movie you should release because it's a big part of
the dirt the dirt bike kids and other like these,
you know, and do they have to be it's I

(01:36:11):
think as Vineger Syndrome maybe is more inclusive of different
genres than seven, which feels like they stick to horror
and they have been getting into different stuff and there's
reasons for that to attract different creators and different artists,
but like Vinner Syndrome feels a little more wider where
it's like they're like you said, they're building during Cannon

(01:36:32):
and like that could include anything.

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
Yeah, it's yes, it's curated by people that are roughly
our age and have had roughly the same experience with
that we've had. Like I'm just gonna like it right,
Like these are the kind of people that I view,
like if I moved into a new town and got
involved in some film society, they'd probably be there, and
like they'd probably be hanging out and showing each other

(01:36:55):
movies and stuff, and so it kind of feels natural.

Speaker 3 (01:36:58):
It's funny when you read some of the groups and
you can tell when people got into buying these either
because they found out it had some cachet being cool
or that they could sell these things, and then they
watched the movies and they're like, oh, this movie sucks,
and it's like do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:37:14):
It's like, well, no, like do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:37:17):
Like it's maybe to you, but like you're not, like
you said, you know, maybe you're not coming from that
age group or maybe you're not understanding like this movie
does mean something to a certain person.

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
No, no, And I mean you fight this battle all
the time on Reddit. Someone's like there's the joke that
Vininger Syndrome's business model is packaging shit really nicely, right, Yeah,
And like I get it. I get it, Like if
you're coming from a place of either having never heard
of a movie, or especially if you're coming from more
of like a like a you know, typical canon kind

(01:37:47):
of art house crowd, like you're just not gonna like
Angel three, Like I get yeah, but.

Speaker 3 (01:37:54):
Like I'm here to tell you that the Angel movies
are my favorite movies, So I completely get it. Like
I won I could talk about Angel one and two
for I could make a podcast just about Angel one
and two.

Speaker 2 (01:38:05):
We'll do that then, because now I agree there they're awesome.
But before we move on from the keep, I do
want to at least just, you know, at least mention
what you know, I think, like the thing that stands
out to me why I like it, because narratively it
is a mess. Like it doesn't you can't like there's
no way around it, Like you don't you don't really
fully understand why they're interested in this. I mean, okay, so,

(01:38:32):
like the movie starts and there's a group of Nazis
that come into this sort of remote town in Romania,
and I think they even have to take a boat
to get there, if I'm not wrong, And there's like
a there's this guy that like or this family that like,
you know, watches over this kind of cave, and inside
the cave is this kind of portal to some magic

(01:38:53):
and Nazis are you know, crazy about finding magic and
having it help their cause whatever, right, and it just
goes into like all sorts of weird directions you don't
really fully understand like the history behind this thing, or
you know, they kind of drop you in the middle
of it, and it doesn't where the way it ends,
you don't really know like who to even root for,

(01:39:14):
Like it's not totally clear who to root for.

Speaker 3 (01:39:17):
So yeah, it's like the first of seven books too,
So it's like if you've read and the author hated
this adaptation so much he wrote a movie about a
director who steals an author's book and ruins it, and
the creatures from the author's book come back and kill
that director. So that's how much he hated this movie
that he felt like it didn't capture his story. He

(01:39:39):
felt was too convoluted.

Speaker 2 (01:39:42):
I mean, I get it, but it's a visually stunning film.

Speaker 3 (01:39:49):
Yeah, and it's amazing too because the effects director died
before like two hundred and fifty of the shots were finished,
so like Michael Mann was doing second unit and effects
unit too, just shooting.

Speaker 2 (01:40:01):
We I think we should probably confess to some point
because I want to reference the first time we talked
about this. So we have recorded parts of this before,
and yeah, had some audio issues, and so we're recording
this for the second time, meaning I forgot to hit
record and that was the audio issue. But my favorite

(01:40:22):
thing when you when we were talking about it about
the keep specifically, you know, just talking about how Michael
Man if you look at his future movies, he doesn't
have a lot of effects as after this, and it's
probably a reason.

Speaker 3 (01:40:39):
Well it's crazy too that his original cut was two
hundred and ten minutes, and I think I think they
intended this to be like, if not a tentpole movie
or a blockbuster like somewhere Close, do you know what
I mean, like an action movie, and the studio took
it out of his hands and they cut it down
to ninety six, so like chunks of the story are missing,
cont news over the place, there's some mistakes, and the sound

(01:40:59):
of the soundtrack even editing, and that's what played in theaters,
Like that's the movie that played in theaters, even like
he had a totally different score of Wanti Warry Anderson
doing the score and ended up becoming around in the
United States live.

Speaker 4 (01:41:12):
And then he's just like.

Speaker 3 (01:41:14):
You know what, like let's go back to Tangerine Dream,
like it works better, but like, yeah, it's just crazy,
like how much is wrong with it? But then people
wanted to see it, right because obviously like it's got
Ian McKellen in it, it's got Scott Glen and has
major people, do you know what I mean? Like there's
a ton of great actors in it, and yeah, and
we love like you know, Manhunter and he you know,

(01:41:36):
in all his movies. But it's great. I think I
talked about when we recorded that there was even a
Dungeons and Dragons module for this movie.

Speaker 4 (01:41:44):
Yeah, and like a board game for it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:46):
Like that's how like people were like, So that's what
gives me the thought that maybe this was a blockbuster
like a Kroll level. It Crawls another movie that compared
to The Keep, because it's like there were games and
toys and all this stuff and people are like, yeah,
Cral's gonna be huge, and then when you see it's
like it's mess, Like it's it's I love it, right,
Like I think it's another movie. If you if you
were my wife friend edited it all the time, so

(01:42:06):
she loves Crawl. You can't say anything bad about it
to her, like yeah, yeah exactly. Like if you saw
it at the right time before we talked about, before
you built that critical process and you saw Crawl, you're like,
this is like it's like the Princess Bride with violence
and horror, right, and it's just there's so many characters,
it's so much weird shit, and the glaze is awesome
and the bad guys are awesome, and it's like it's

(01:42:29):
like dark goth Star Wars. I don't know what it is, right.
It's fun though, right, and like, but to other people
that see it now and they're like, I just did
like Mega Force on the show, and I think if
people saw Megaphce today, they're like, this movie is horrible.
I'm like, yeah, but you weren't eleven years old when
Mega Force came out and weren't.

Speaker 4 (01:42:45):
Like jazzed up from seeing the ad in.

Speaker 3 (01:42:47):
Every Marvel comic and you're like, oh my god, this
is like g I Joe, but like a movie, you know.
And it's like, so it's like those are the kind
of movies like when they come out, like The Keep too.
It's like I think younger people could see this and
be like, oh, yeah, I know it's Michael Mann, but
like nothing makes sense. The continuities, off, dialogues, off, sounds off.
Why is this important to people? And like, well, multiple reasons,

(01:43:10):
you know what I mean, Like everybody you know, So
to me, it's like it's not a surprise, it's sold.
It's just but like you said, I think the thing
I sees on it the most every time I watch
it is who are we rooting for? Right? And why
are we rooting for them? Like this is these are the.

Speaker 4 (01:43:26):
Questions that you ask yourself in a movie.

Speaker 3 (01:43:28):
And like, this isn't an art movie, right, So this
isn't like a movie where that doesn't matter where we're
like introspective and seeing someone's lives and yeah, this is
like a potentially a summer blockbuster. And this is from
the same era that Dune was a summer blockbuster, So
that makes sense. Right, They were looking for these weird
properties like what's the next Star Wars? It could be anything,

(01:43:49):
but that's.

Speaker 2 (01:43:50):
Yeah, Like if you look at the eighties, I don't
mean to cut you off, but like if you look
at you kind of have to put in context of
like people, you know, they put out I'm trying to
think of a good example, like they put out Shoot,
what's the one with uh hold on Willow? Yeah, and
people just kind of win with it, like yeah, Dark
Crystal and every ending story, like people just kind of

(01:44:13):
win with it. Like sure, yeah, this makes sense, Like
I mean, it was just a weird time.

Speaker 3 (01:44:17):
There's well, it's funny if you see like almost every
movie from that time has like Cannon sold he Man.

Speaker 4 (01:44:23):
This is the weirdest thing.

Speaker 3 (01:44:24):
Like they should have sold he Man as it's he Man,
It's on TV every day, it's the biggest kids show
and we're making a live action movie of it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:32):
They sold he Man as the Star Wars.

Speaker 3 (01:44:35):
For the eighties and like and that's and also nobody
involved with that movie thought that any of the toys
had value, right, It's like.

Speaker 4 (01:44:44):
We should make our own movie.

Speaker 3 (01:44:45):
And to their credit, they got really awesome people like
you know, Mebius and stuff to do the sketches of
the costumes and stuff, and it looks really cool. But
like it's such a weird movie where it's like that's
one where people don't go with it because they're like, oh,
I understand the mythology of he Man. Wait what is this?
Another one's like Super Mario Brothers is another one, and
it's another great urbo. My wife is like she never

(01:45:06):
played the games because she had a Mega Master System
and a Genesis, so she knew Sonic and Alex kids.
She didn't know Mario, so her first experience with Mario
is the movie. So when she played the game, she's like, wait,
where's Dennis Hopper and like like why, And like everybody
else that was disappointed at the movies, like the opposite,
My wife was the opposite. She wanted the cyberpunk, weird

(01:45:27):
like dark world of Super Mario Brothers.

Speaker 4 (01:45:30):
It's like that's also the eighties.

Speaker 3 (01:45:32):
Is that time too, where it's like everybody's trying to
get what's the next Star Wars? Like how can we get?
Like what's it going to be? And like that's why
you'd have like fascinating non starters like Buck Rubonzai or yeah,
uh Streets and Streets of Fires another one. Streets of
Fire was going to be three movies and like you know,
and god, I wish, right, I love that there's like

(01:45:52):
in Japan it's big because Bubblegum Crisis takes a lot
from it, but like a lot of it could have
been big. And it's like I always think in my head,
like there is another at reality somewhere where some of
these movies are a big deal, do you know what
I mean? Like the Keep is like people are obsessed
about the Keep and it's getting put out in a
Criterion Collection, not Fergerson, right right, right, right right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46:12):
And people talk about it is Michael Mann's best film,
and like all the themes and everything, maybe one theme
coming from our discussion is going to be growing up
in the eighties or having that be a big part
of our childhood was is it really helps in being
able to just have fun with stuff and overlook some
of the dumb stuff that the people get, you know,
bothered by in film?

Speaker 3 (01:46:33):
Did you like when you watched movies as a kid
grown up, did you often feel like this sounds like
a psychology quiz question, I apologize, but like, did you
feel like, man, I wish these characters lived beyond the
movie and that I could spend time with them? Of course, Like,
so that's how I felt like if I really loved
the movie, Like Real Genius is an example, Like I
wanted to hang out with everybody from that movie. Like

(01:46:54):
when it ended, I was like, man, like I wish
I could. I wish these people were real. And I
don't feel like that about that many other movies anymore.
And maybe like a lot of the stuff Vineger Centrones
has that same feel to me where it's like I
want this world to exist beyond the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:47:09):
Yeah, I'm getting stuck a little bit on thinking of
modern movies how they play. I mean, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know. There the eighties had such a ronest too,
even if you look at the comedies from that era,
I guess we have to be careful and not going
off on too much of a tangent.

Speaker 3 (01:47:24):
But like I.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
They rode from a very sincere and like raw and
honest place and like, yeah, at the cost of being perfect,
which I don't think happens as much anymore. Like a
lot of the best movies and from that era have
a lot of messy dialogue, but it's but when you
talk in everyday life, you kind of do too.

Speaker 3 (01:47:44):
Yeah, mumblecre tries to get close to it, but it's
not the same. It's like, yeah, it feels too precious maybe,
And it's like but versus like there are other movies
where like I don't know, maybe because like as a kid,
I hate a school, I use movies as an escape,
you know, And it's like I could live in the

(01:48:05):
worlds of these weird movies and wanted to know more
about them. And I also have like my mom sent
me the other day. She's like, you may have been
like a little on the spectrum because you got so
once you get into something, you get obsessed about it
and you have to know more. And like, I definitely
know that's true with movies, I think, and I don't know,
like so for younger people, I don't think now they

(01:48:25):
can stop a movie part way through and get on
IMDb and look it up and see all the things
about it, and then maybe it's versus us. Like when
you saw The Keep as a kid, you know, you know,
or you rented something, you had to have that knowledge.
You had to find out later, Oh that's where this
guy's from, or oh that's who the cinematographer was of this,

(01:48:46):
or oh the same guy that did the effects or
the Keep did the two thousand and one effects. Like
that's versus today you instantly make those connections and it
feels like a little more like, Oh, that's how, that's
why this is important, and you like kind of ingrained
that knowledge in your sell versus having someone else find
it for you and you just clean it and you
move on. I don't know. I think that I'm trying

(01:49:06):
to think of why these things are important. Maybe it's
just because that's it was a me more fun amount
of point that we were only on the earth for
ten years and now we've been like five times four
times past.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
Yeah, I don't know, you know, I think there's also
because there's younger people obviously that like these movies as well.
And oh yeah, I do think there's a sense of
like wonder and discovery that I've always had when it
comes to movies. And I don't know that I could
pinpoint where that's from. I've just like, if you put
a movie in front of me, for the most part,
I don't care what's happening. I'm just interested in it.

(01:49:36):
And there's movies that I hate, but I never feel
bad about watching them. I'm not like, oh man, what
a waste. It's just like you just it was fine,
Like I didn't like that one mm hmmm. I and
I you know, I don't know that everybody that that
I come across necessarily has that same I don't know,
just like it doesn't to me. It just doesn't matter what.

(01:49:58):
Like I can even get sucked into TV. I intentionally
don't watch a lot of TV because I can get
sucked into it for the same reason. It's like there's
a script and they're trying to tell a story. Then
like I kind of get drawn in and I want
to figure it out, like where they're going with it
and what they're trying to say, and it's just something
I really love.

Speaker 3 (01:50:14):
I think what I was thinking about to keep when
I watched it again is like, could you imagine seeing
this in the theater and not having any background about it?
Do you know what I mean? And like you're kind
of confronted by it and you're like, what did I
just watch? Like what did they want out of me?
To get out of this? Do you know what I mean?
And it's like I can see why it didn't do well,

(01:50:34):
I mean, but I can also see why it created
a cult around it too, not just because Michael Mann
did it, So I can see both sides of it.
Like I actually really dig it, but I also am
it's like has an asterisk on it because there's so
many problems with it, right, you know what I mean?
But on the other hand, it's like that's also fascinating.

(01:50:55):
I love movies that have a lot of problems with it.
I love movies that have a really rough hit production
history and barely got made or maybe even didn't get
made and only parts didn't exist, because you know.

Speaker 2 (01:51:06):
No, I mean that's a perfect segue into Blood tracks,
because you know, this is I think this is another
one of these ones that's going to separate people pretty clearly.
I mean it's yeah, it's you know, if you watch
what is it, all I'm thinking of is Last House
on the Left. It's not that if you watch Wes

(01:51:27):
Craven's movie where they where they go out into the
desert and they meet that family, Oh well he'll have
eyes right, or you know, there's there's certain movies if
you watch like even Spider Baby or something like that,
Like there's there's these movies that have been made about
this this family that's for one reason or another. They're

(01:51:49):
slightly you know, malformed and and remote and they you know,
it's a trap to get in their area, you know.
And this is it fits pretty firmly in that genre.
But it does this fun little twist of having a
real band come on and and basically play is they

(01:52:09):
only play one song? Is that right? Don't they just
play one song the whole time?

Speaker 3 (01:52:13):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:52:13):
Blood chezs And it's about them shooting a music video
and they were in a particular they happened to get
in that family's you know, bad area, and and and
gnarly things ensue. But it's like this funny mix of
like kind of a well known genre with I don't
even know, like this very you know, purely eighties kind

(01:52:35):
of hair metal obsessed fandom, you know, kind of play
and like kind of a sleazy movie. But it's it's
fun to watch, Like I had a great time with it.

Speaker 3 (01:52:45):
It's a weird movie because like if you think about
the slasher boom, like by eighty two, it's kind of
over right, right, I mean, slashers, We've gotten slashers. We're
in another boom, post terrifier, but it's never gonna go away.
But like the big ones of the industry where like
seventy nine to eighty one, the early eighties two and
this is like three years later. But on the other hand,

(01:53:06):
it's like okay, fine, you know. But and it's also
weird that it's like it has a real band in
an easy action and they're in it, and it's like,
I like that it comes to us, and like if
you knew easy action, and I don't think many people
do in the US, right, Like they know, like one
of the guys was in Europe maybe, or another guy
was in Singer isn't Shotgun Asidah, But again that's deep

(01:53:28):
cut hair metal like bands that weren't huge, you know,
Europe was, but not shotgum Asia And like, uh, I
love movies that are filmed. Like there's a movie called
Dutch Treat. It's a canon movie that has this band
of Dolly Dots and they were supposed to be like
the New Bangals but like from from Europe and like

(01:53:48):
they broke up before the movie got made and I
can still put it out and you're like and then
movie really treats them as like they're super important and
you're like, yeah, but they don't exist anyway, Like we're
seeing it on HBO and there's this weird like they
know a lot of times, like I like when bands
are made up for movies, but obviously they're not, like
obviously they're a real band, and the same way like

(01:54:09):
Easy Action is a real band too, And then it's
like but then we put them into this like false
narrative with groupies and stuff like that, but also a
horror movie and also it's in the snow, like I
think there's something really cool about this movie. Like it's
just it's just like, uh, it's got a lot of
gore in it too. There's like eyeballs getting eaten and
access to the head and like the band and the

(01:54:30):
groupies are just like doing hijinks right.

Speaker 4 (01:54:34):
And one of the things we talked about when we
were for like the director couldn't figure.

Speaker 3 (01:54:37):
Out how to get the band actause none of them
could act, and he just got them loaded.

Speaker 4 (01:54:41):
So you watch it, they're drunk the whole time.

Speaker 3 (01:54:43):
It's like, uh, Alan Arkis told me about Dede Ramone
that like DEDI could not act at rock and roll
high school, and like they were burning through film. And
finally he's like, I'm just gonna ask Dde stuff he
likes and I'll cut it in. So that's why that
DEDI wanted him. I like pizza. That's the only thing
he says in the whole movie is because he's like,
like pizza, and he just said it back to them
and they're like, Okay, cool, Dedi. He's done for the day.

Speaker 4 (01:55:04):
You can go do drugs again, and.

Speaker 3 (01:55:05):
Like and I love that. Like I love when bands
are in movies, and like especially when they don't have,
especially when you notice a band in a movie.

Speaker 4 (01:55:15):
On stage, they're like awesome front men, right, and they're
used to like commanding a crowd, but now they're in
this different intimate.

Speaker 3 (01:55:21):
Place of being in a movie, and sometimes they're so
like especially for the Romans, they're so just like you
can tell they're afraid, right, and you can tell that they're.

Speaker 4 (01:55:31):
Probably not good actors.

Speaker 3 (01:55:33):
That's why I have this dream, like again of alternate
reality movies. Daily Roth was supposed to make a movie
after he left Inhale and called Crazy from the Heat,
which that's what the EP's about, and there was a
whole script. It was ready to go, and for some
reason it never happened. And that's like my dream interview,
Like I want to interview them and find out what
that movie was about, because like part of me thinks, like, wow,
he could have had a totally different life of like

(01:55:56):
I don't even know what his character would be like,
or would he have had the your Dice Clay career
of like making Ford Fairlane and people being like I
don't get this at all, do you know what I mean?
So like the same way, like could you imagine if
we got like three easy action movies like where this
became like an Abin and Costello like movie, or Hope
and Crosby Road movie. Thing of like Easy Action in

(01:56:16):
the Can against Cannibals, and like The Killer Barbies did
that too with Jess Franco. They did like two movies
like the Killer Barbies and Killer Barbies were and it's
the same thing. It's like, who are the Killer Barbies?
Like I don't understand who this band is, but suddenly
they're in a in a movie.

Speaker 4 (01:56:33):
I love.

Speaker 3 (01:56:33):
I love when bands show up in movies and I
get fascinated about do you even notice? Like certain bands
will be in movies for a lot, like the Chili
Peppers were like the weird band for a while to shot.
They show up in like Tough Guys and a few
other movies, and like War shows up in Empire Records
like I love, and Ministry shows up in Ai, which
is my favorite one. It's like like in the middle
of this spiller movie that's frankly a little boring, it's like,

(01:56:56):
oh shit, Ministries like falling apart and playing in a
junk yard, like it saves that movie for me, and
like in the same like Easy Action saves this movie
for me because it's not your typical slasher as a
result of this very amateurs band playing that being in
the middle of it. Like that's why it's like a
fascinating document to me. Like it's like wow, Like it's

(01:57:16):
almost like a cool tagline. Do you want to see
a metal band that doesn't know how to act in
a slasher? Yes? Okay, cool here it is like that's
a good cell.

Speaker 2 (01:57:24):
But yeah, yes. And also I think like there's uh
Amanda Rayes does the commentary on this, and it it's
like a I don't know, I always feel silly saying
something like a muscless and commentary I don't know, you know,
But like, but she's such a wealth of information.

Speaker 3 (01:57:43):
She's so kind of think the right word. She's so
nice about her talent too, Like whenever you read her right,
she's like, oh, I didn't know if i'd be the
right person for this, or I'd be like, you're so smart,
do you know what I mean? Like she's like almost
like two down on herself, and she says these things
like no, Like every time I listen to her commentary,
especially for the TV movie stuff she does, I'm like,

(01:58:05):
oh my god, Like I didn't know that, like she's
mind blowing when.

Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
She yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. And then and then you
and kind who actually works for Vinegar Syndrome is one
of the other people on the commentary, and like just
having them to like go back and forth on slashers
and just the history of the genre and like where
this movie fits in. And I don't know, it's awesome,
Like it's a very very good package. And and they

(01:58:28):
actually get I don't I don't know how to say
his name, Pothyron, I think Tyron, and and then both
Stagman from Easy Action. There's an old like kind of
interview that they found with them and they put it
on there too, so you get to see them talking
about the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:58:44):
Yeah, this is another movie too that it was like
a bootleg like Gray Market Blue Rags. It was never out,
you know what I mean, So there was when I
see movies that are on those sites, I'm like, oh,
there is a need for this movie, you know what
I mean, Like there is a market for an Almost
anybody that bought the bootleg is going to buy the
real Vinegar Center one when it comes out.

Speaker 2 (01:59:04):
Yeah, And I mean it's selling like they made six
thousand of them. And it's down to thirteen hundred and
fifty by the time we're recording. I mean, you know,
it's only been out for a month, so it's selling.
I mean, plus those standards. You know, not everyone buys
the limited anyways, but yeah, that's the main line titles
for the month. So it's a crazy to me. It's
a little crazy to think about one month because you know,

(01:59:26):
people always talk about whether or not to get this
subscription and I would never never try to convince somebody
to spend a thousand bucks, Like I get it. But
if you think about November, the way they ended the
year looking for Mister Goodbar, Sliver, the Keep, and Blood tracks,
those are all, yeah, like that's a pretty s and
three of those are in hard boxes, like they're not

(01:59:46):
you know, like they're in really deluxe like hard boxes
with booklets, and I mean, I don't know, it's it's
a great month. And I mean I feel like last
year they had because the month before that they had
the for Go in Jallo number seven, which is definitely
my favorite one of those set of that set.

Speaker 3 (02:00:06):
That one feels like the most forgotten Jalla the movie,
the movies that people don't know, like like with sister
Versill was on the one. I'm like, well, seven put
that out, you know what I mean? Yeah, And it's
like I don't. But I'm also I also realized, like
we talked about, these are really limited things. I'm like, oh,
like sometimes I have to remind myself, Like people don't
care about Shama as much as you do, Sam, do
you know what I mean? Like they don't like the

(02:00:28):
minutia of like the deep cut ones like these aren't
like mainstream to them, Like they don't know, don't panic
not to pick like obsessional taste for fear, do you
know what I mean? They don't so like versus to me,
that's like a you talked yesterday about your top hundred movies.

Speaker 4 (02:00:45):
That's definitely on my top hundred movies.

Speaker 3 (02:00:47):
And yeah it's I love it because it is Yeah,
it's a Jawah, but it's also ISAA or Mars plus,
it's also Blade Runner plus it's it's like a weird
BDSM thing and it's also like a music video and
it's like and Kid Creole and the Coconuts are in it.
Like it's got a lot of weird stuff. It's got

(02:01:08):
the Alienators in it. Teak and Clive the real muscular
girl who's also in another Venderger syndrome one. What's the
cop box that that they put out?

Speaker 2 (02:01:19):
The cop bucks.

Speaker 4 (02:01:21):
The girl cops one.

Speaker 3 (02:01:23):
It's real hard to find.

Speaker 2 (02:01:24):
You're talking about Vice Academy.

Speaker 3 (02:01:28):
She's in Vice Academy too. She plays robo bitch. She's
the roboc Advice Academy too. I like yeah, And it's like,
so Tea and Clive was like really got in a
lot of like directed video movies back in that time,
and actually she's the girl who's like super muscular that
gets killed in the beginning obsession and it's like wow,
like that's crazy. I have a dream movie to come

(02:01:51):
out on one of the sets and I don't even
know if it's a Shalla but man, uh what still
Own's ex wife? It was with Flavor Flav two.

Speaker 2 (02:02:03):
I'm bad at pop cultureself, hold.

Speaker 3 (02:02:05):
On, yeah, let me, I'm gonna reverse engineer this and
figure out. Brigitte Nielsen. Okay, okay, Brigitte Nielsen was making
like a ton of Italian movies.

Speaker 4 (02:02:16):
And like she made there's one that she made.

Speaker 3 (02:02:20):
I'm looking up the title now so I can tell
you again not prep this is like out of the
blue right coming up with this, But I feel it
feels like one of those movies that will be in
one of these sets. It's some day because also Kid
Creole and the Coconuts are in it too, that's how
it crosses over.

Speaker 2 (02:02:35):
Well just why you're looking it up? Me interrupt me,
you know.

Speaker 3 (02:02:39):
But there's is the name of it, and like it's
the weirdest movie because it's like a murder mystery. She's
also a jazz artist and she has a turtle for
a pet. The whole thing shot like a music video
and it feels like a lot like Obsession. It's a
really similar movie of like just weird. I don't even
know if it's a jabuo or a sex movie or
what it is. It's awesome, like and it's never.

Speaker 2 (02:02:59):
Come out in the US, okay, and like.

Speaker 3 (02:03:01):
And like it feels like that's that's why I was
so excited about this, like uh Jalla said, because like
it was like, Wow, yeah, these are the movies I
want to come out. Like it's when Nothing Underneath and
Too Beautiful to Die came out. I was like, yes,
finally someone's putting these out. And it's like these are
like the jallo I want to come out, like the
stuff that like, yeah, we're gonna have a million cops,

(02:03:23):
like every format of Burke, the Crystal Plumage and Sure
and you know, A Strange Vice and Missus War, which
are both great movies, but like, these are the ones
I want to come out, the junkie ones that nobody knows,
like when seven putting out Private Crimes, the Martino like
Twin Peaks. Yeah, yeah, I'm like, yeah, yeah, this is
what I want. Sorry to go on a tangent, Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (02:03:42):
That's oh I love it, man. I think that's I
think it's it's perfect for uh, the way this conversation
is gone. I mean this this is like that's the
fun about collecting. And that's kind of why I keep
getting John into Vindeger syndrome when they put out some
of the more obscure stuff that usually I vibe with
it really well.

Speaker 3 (02:03:58):
What else came out in November other than.

Speaker 2 (02:04:02):
It was it was a great month.

Speaker 3 (02:04:04):
Man.

Speaker 2 (02:04:04):
Let me just go back down a little bit, because
let's see, they had so they had the Tenant, they
had corp Corpse Mania, which is amazing, and then the
Ghost Dance and then Cinematograph had Shanks, which is another
one that jumped into my top one hundred. That movie
so much, I don't I just like, it's just the

(02:04:25):
the spirit of that movie is so like sweet but
also sad and just like I guess vulnerable. I don't
really know the best word for it. It's just that
movie is amazing.

Speaker 3 (02:04:34):
I think it's also like you could say it's a slasher,
but it isn't. I don't even know what it is,
like it's and that's why I like it. It's like it's, yeah,
it doesn't fit in a box, like it's it's Shanks.
That's the genre, a genre of one exactly.

Speaker 2 (02:04:51):
Yeah. Before that was Howling to Cruel Batania, which had
one one that I really liked, Delirium Photo of Joya,
which was awesome. I don't know, I mean like, I
just think they've been nailing it.

Speaker 3 (02:05:02):
And yeah, I'm Bloodline too, which was like another one
I wanted them to come out.

Speaker 2 (02:05:06):
Yeah I think so.

Speaker 3 (02:05:08):
But that's yeah, like that's like a kind of sort
of y'all with but with like major like a major budget,
major actors. I remember the first time I watched it,
I was like, how did they get Audrey Heppern to
be in such a scummy movie, right, and oh yeah,
with good reason, I mean, but I like it. But
like if I was Audrey Heppern, I'm like, why am

(02:05:30):
I in this movie with people from Italian movies? And
you know what I mean? Like why am I in
a movie with a Mrconi soundtrack? With the sex killer?
Like I am fucking American Royalty, you know what I mean?
She is, like she is, like you can buy posters
of her at Target, like Meril Monroe, like they're the
two icons of that era and Breakfast at Tiffany's picture

(02:05:50):
is like I know, and it's like yeah. And also
that she plays like an ingenue in that movie, like
she's playing somebody that's maybe thirty years younger.

Speaker 2 (02:05:56):
Than she is.

Speaker 4 (02:05:57):
Like only Joan Crawford gets away with that shit, right,
And that's why.

Speaker 3 (02:06:02):
I love that movie. Oh man, that was a great release.
I was because as soon as they said, like it's
the major release that's wastegominger that should be, I'm like
it has to be Bloodline. I can't think of anything
else that hits it. And like there's I have a
few friends, like maybe two or three of them that
love that movie as much as me, and like the
chats about it coming out were hilarious because it was
like the biggest thing that ever happened that awesome, because

(02:06:23):
you know what I mean, Like this movie means a
lot dust but and to no one else. It's like
if Vinigar Center put Roar out, it would probably be
the same thing.

Speaker 2 (02:06:31):
I need to I need to get you on to
defend Bloodline because I didn't. I didn't like the way
it ended.

Speaker 3 (02:06:36):
But let's no, well that's the things like I'm my
defense of it is I love that it exists, okay,
and you know what I mean? And also yeah, and
then then it's like I like, I have this weird
thing I like.

Speaker 4 (02:06:49):
I like when major celebrities make a failure.

Speaker 3 (02:06:52):
I get it. Yeah, you like I like Meyra Breckenridge
because Rakeel Welch is sex a major sex symbol, and
she's in this movie. I liked like sex at with
because like May West again a major sex symbol and
this is her last movie and it's such a weird
movie and and like who would take an eighty five
year old May West that couldn't hear any of her
lines and had to have like an earpiece to hear

(02:07:14):
them right and like make her like the sex symbol
of this movie, and like that's fascinating, like you know
what I mean, And like that's probably like Italian movies
because it's a lot of like American actors like down
on their heels, So that's probably like Bloodline.

Speaker 4 (02:07:29):
I can't.

Speaker 3 (02:07:30):
I don't think I could defend it. Like you could
tear it apart and I'd be like, it's not a
movie where I'd be set. I'd start crying because you
were making fun of it. Now, if you made fun
of a Carol Baker movie.

Speaker 2 (02:07:38):
If you're like, you know, no.

Speaker 3 (02:07:41):
No, I wouldn't.

Speaker 4 (02:07:41):
I wouldn't. Yeah, those are like those.

Speaker 3 (02:07:43):
Are super important.

Speaker 2 (02:07:44):
Yeah, no, no, I'm looking.

Speaker 3 (02:07:45):
At the Lindsay Baker set right now staring at me
across the room, and it's like, I love you, Sam.

Speaker 2 (02:07:51):
Yeah, that was an amazing So I'm trying to think
of you know, We've been defending a lot of movies.
The hardest movie to defend in the Vinegar Syndrome catalog
is probably Congo.

Speaker 3 (02:08:11):
Activate the remote.

Speaker 7 (02:08:13):
In the race for the world's most advanced communications technology,
our shocking discovery has been made.

Speaker 2 (02:08:22):
Block You're remote, give me a thermal reading result to
six sex.

Speaker 3 (02:08:29):
It will take two young scientists into the heart of
the African jungle.

Speaker 2 (02:08:35):
A secret hidden for two thousand years owns.

Speaker 3 (02:08:39):
The key to the future. This is Karen Ross's eight
one four five two Houston.

Speaker 7 (02:08:45):
Do you read you used to work for the CIA
and now you're traffical. Some will come to it for science.
This is a big five, some for fortune, a.

Speaker 3 (02:08:56):
Di'mond mine of incredible bounty and so to return home.

Speaker 2 (02:09:01):
She doesn't really belong anywhere.

Speaker 3 (02:09:03):
Does she.

Speaker 7 (02:09:03):
No, she belongs here Congo, where you are the endangerous species.

Speaker 2 (02:09:16):
And like I'm not saying it's bad, just in this
sense of defending it, in the sense of it being
like in the spirit of everything we're talking about in
the last you know, the last few hours.

Speaker 3 (02:09:26):
Like because it's definitely a blockbuster, like it was like
it was an attempt to make.

Speaker 4 (02:09:30):
Another Jurassic Park.

Speaker 3 (02:09:32):
Yeah, I think we can all admit that, Like, yeah,
and it's total a total commerce movie, right, Like I
don't how much of this movie is art or And
how many people have you ever talked to as you
talk about movies, and like men, you know, it's my
favorite movie Congo. If someone says that to you, wouldn't
you be like a little like guarded in the rest

(02:09:52):
of your discussion with them? And I'm not saying I
don't like it. I like it because it's a weird movie, right.
It's it's like, Okay, it feels like one of those
because it got sold to be a movie before the
book was even finished. That's that's how Michael Crichton was right,
like everything was a movie to him. But yeah, it's

(02:10:13):
just like it's such a weird again, it's almost another
movie like we're whose side are we on? Who are
the good guys?

Speaker 4 (02:10:19):
Ernie Hudson.

Speaker 3 (02:10:19):
It is his favorite movie because he gets to be
Danna Jones in it.

Speaker 4 (02:10:22):
He doesn't have to.

Speaker 3 (02:10:23):
Be you know, the fourth Ghostbuster that you know comes
along like forty five minutes into the movie, like he's
like crazy and it Tim Curry's great in it too. Yeah.
The disappointment for me when I first saw it was
like the Bruce Campbell gets killed spoiler like ten minutes
into the movie. Yeah, you know what I mean, the
spoiler for a forty year old movie everybody's seen. But like, again,

(02:10:45):
like we talked about Kenner Figures, earlier, Like there were
toys out for this before the movie was out, Like
you know what I mean, there was probably Amy. Yeah,
you know that somebody was making the glove that they
talked to Amy with, you know what I mean, like
trying to do something like I'm sure there was like
some kind of a fast food tie in. There was
a pinball machine, like, there was a lot of stuff
like and Congo made money. It's also one of those blockbusters.

(02:11:09):
I'm fascinated by blockbusters that nobody talks about it anymore.
It came out, it was a big movie that summer,
but like it's not Jurassic Park where people talk about
the odd when they first saw a Draassic Park. Like,
it doesn't feel like it's a movie for it made
twice its budget. But you never maybe there are maybe
someone's got to write into this and be like, hey,
fuck you, I am the evangelist for Congo, right, but

(02:11:32):
like are there like if you heard that, because I
have it.

Speaker 4 (02:11:34):
I'm fascinated.

Speaker 2 (02:11:35):
But I mean every movie has one hundred of them, right,
but there's not I don't think there's a thousand of them.
And yeah, no, I agree, it just like it kind
of exists and it's kind of like if it came
out now, I don't think I'd go in the theaters
to see it. Like it doesn't have anything that's interesting
in it. It plays very much within the lines, like
you know, colors within the lions, But I don't know

(02:11:57):
it's endearing, like it's you know, this is one to
me another one if you think about we talked about
this with the keep. I mean, this one has ten
thousand units and there's basically two thousand left, and so
you know, in basically one month they've sold I mean,
just quick math, it's twenty thousand plus the other stuff.
They probably sold thirty or forty thousand movies in a month.

(02:12:21):
And like the main reason we went on that whole
Anchor Bay Tangent initially when I was asking about the
limited editions, is like, that's kind of cool that they've found,
you know, thirty thousand people. Now, granted some people are
buying multiple copies whatever, but like they've found thirty or
forty thousand limited edition copies that they can sell in
a month. Yeah, that is that's not that's saying something

(02:12:44):
like there's not a lot of thing people doing that
right now.

Speaker 4 (02:12:47):
Yeah, evern I think get Walmart or like whatever the
mass retil.

Speaker 3 (02:12:50):
That's what's funny me is like for as much as
people are like, oh, physical media is dead, like I
was in Iowa this year, and it's like they had
so much more physical media space in their Walmarts than
we do because there's not as much broadband out there,
do you know what I mean? And as much Internet,
so like they have like full like people were buying stuff,
like I remember I saw pictures of like when the

(02:13:11):
disasters happened in North Carolina this year and people had
to find something entertain themselves when they had power back,
although Walmart's got cleaned out of DVDs, do you know
what I mean? So it's like but I often think
like yeah, maybe Vinigar Syndrome sung as much as like
a new movie sells at Walmart now, do you know
what I mean? Because they also have a direct line
to the exact people that want it.

Speaker 2 (02:13:31):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, all the all the middle logistics
is taken out. They just they just package it and
sell it.

Speaker 3 (02:13:36):
So I mean, I know February first, where I'm going
to be. I'm going to the site. I'd be like
waiting for the countdown to.

Speaker 2 (02:13:42):
See what the new movies are exactly.

Speaker 3 (02:13:44):
It happens like every month, and like, I think there
aren't many things when you get older that like you
don't get that like Christmas excitement of waiting for something right,
and like these sales and like these releases are like
the last thing for me of it. So like that's
exciting to me. Like the subscriber week is exciting to me.
Every day that there was something like that was a
great week. It's like, oh man, like this was my

(02:14:05):
first week back at work, and I was like, well,
at least at noon I can see, you know, I
can buy a couple of things and then you know,
get a couple new movies.

Speaker 4 (02:14:12):
But I think Congres is a.

Speaker 3 (02:14:13):
Cool one just where it's like it feels like just
at the edge of being strange enough to fit into it.
Maybe because of it's subject matter. Yeah, and diamonds and
and Jodan Baker's attecht Yeah. I mean it's got some stuff,
but it's like it's almost like if they put out

(02:14:37):
this is what I talked to David Gregory about this
this week, is like when seven put out Overboard that
felt really weird, and he said that was a drunken pickup.
They were all out drinking and one of his friends
was talking about Overboard. He's liked, God, that's such a
non PC movie because there's so much gaslighting and so
much like just bad behavior, and people gloss over it

(02:14:59):
because weirdly, it feels like a Severn movie. And they
were drunk and he called up his rep and he said,
is that available and they said yeah, and it's pretty cheap,
and he said, great, we're gonna put it out and
that's all. The decision was right, And it's like, so like,
it's so weird when you go to.

Speaker 4 (02:15:14):
One of Seven's tables at a con.

Speaker 3 (02:15:16):
You know, there's all this just Franco stuff and there's
this like Brune Mattai stuff, and then there's Overboard in
the middle of it. And you always hear people say
that aren't familiar with the label. Why are these people
selling Overboard?

Speaker 4 (02:15:26):
I'm like, but yeah, and now that I know that story,
that's kind.

Speaker 3 (02:15:29):
Of funny, and that's maybe more out of character than Congo,
right where Congo feels like we could make an argument
for it. But also if they put if they put
out like Jurassic Park three, I'd be like Okay, Now
it feels like is that the lot is this the
demarcation line in the litmus test of like it can't
be more mainstream than Congo? But that's like, but if

(02:15:50):
you think about it, Looking for Mister Goodbar was super
mainstream when it came out. It was a water cooler movie.
But also but it has jallo stuff to it, and
it's a dark movie and to b DSM. So like
that one, we give it past it. But also that's
further back in time. The other thing about Congo maybe
this is my song or we seeing the inverse of
what we've been talking about the whol show for so
for kids, kids or the generation after us, Right, is

(02:16:13):
Congo a bigger movie to them than we know? Was
that like past our sphere? You know?

Speaker 2 (02:16:18):
We were yeah, yeah, no, no, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (02:16:20):
I was probably like in my mid to late twenties
when it came out, so I was like, yeah, maybe
I went to see it, but it wasn't like something
that my parents dropped me off to see like Drassic Parker. Yeah,
oh my god, Ninja Turtles was the biggest deal.

Speaker 2 (02:16:33):
Right, Yeah, I don't know, I don't know where that
line is this one feels like it's like it is
it they found the line? Maybe I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:16:43):
Well, they also have when you have such an engaged
user base, and it's like almost like punk rock, you
run the you build like people that are super into
your label and you're defensive of it right and love it.
But the other side of that is when they feel
like they're getting sold out, they're gonna be vociferous and like, also,
everybody online is prickly already, right, so when you go

(02:17:05):
to these groups, like god forbid, somebody gets a ding
out of the corner of one of their boxes, the
posts that get put about it, or like other people
being upset and stuff didn't come out, like they didn't
get their Black Friday stuff yet. It's like, you know,
what's something Maybe this is me being older, but like
me waiting for it, it's like cool, this is just
something else to look forward.

Speaker 2 (02:17:25):
To, No, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, it's
not like I mean I watched these movies.

Speaker 3 (02:17:29):
Now.

Speaker 2 (02:17:29):
That's the whole reason they started the podcast was to
like force myself to watch these things. Yeah, like this
month there was sixteen things I had to watch, Like
I didn't get to them all yeah, but it's like
it takes extra week, it's fine.

Speaker 3 (02:17:43):
Yeah, And it's like these people are like you've never
had something bad happening before, and like in the grand
scheme of our world, And I'm not getting a political
I'm not going to get downer, but like you not
getting a movie or a corner of a box being
digged up. If that's the worst thing that happened to you, you
should maybe reevaluate. Like if a label you up puts
out a movie that you don't completely agree with, okay,

(02:18:07):
Like there's also, like you said, there's fifteen other ones
that came out this month that are all super high quality,
so like get past it, and like I like.

Speaker 4 (02:18:14):
That this is something that us struck me.

Speaker 3 (02:18:15):
From talking to you, you understand that there's a commerce
needs sometimes to sell movies like Sliver or Congo because
then then you're gonna get these other movies that you
never thought you'd get, and that gives them the capital
to do.

Speaker 2 (02:18:27):
That, Yeah, rather than going out and getting investor money.
Like this is kind of their way. They get it right,
like you you have to get money from somewhere, and
like it's not a major sin to put out Congo
and the movie is fine, Like it's I don't think that.
I don't think it's edgy at all. Like even if
you look at something like in the VSU line they
put out, you know, they've had some kids movies in there,

(02:18:47):
like Sidekicks or Darryl and then there's.

Speaker 3 (02:18:53):
Cloak and Daggers like a dark movie though it's it's
a kid's movie, but it would never get made as
a kid's movie.

Speaker 2 (02:19:00):
Let's cut an edge to it. Yeah, they they've always
been kind of walking that line a little bit. I
don't think Congo has an edge. The stakes are never
really high or whatever the.

Speaker 3 (02:19:08):
Folks have made it, Like Frank Marshall's like I probably
like his major you know what I mean? He produced
some major mainstream movies, you know. I but like is
that always bad? Like I get whenever you hear people
say like we should never have Marvel movies and these
are killing cinema? Are they? Like there's a lot of

(02:19:28):
other reasons cinema's dying, do you know what I mean?
And just and if you don't like it, cool, you
don't have to watch it exactly, Like were you really
going to the cinema? Like I've never had a theater around,
Like we have so few art theaters and stuff here,
Like it's amazing if something plays in a theater here.
Like the only reason, like Two Weevil Lives played here
because it was shot in Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh, right, so

(02:19:48):
like that's the only reason it played here. Otherwise we
wouldn't have got it. So it's like, so you had
to seek out that and that. We don't really get
those movies and like, to me, like those are the
only movies people go to the cinema before. So at
least people are still going to see something Like my
brother will never go see any of the movies I like,
but if I want to spend time with them, like

(02:20:08):
I know, we're going to Captain America together, right.

Speaker 4 (02:20:11):
Also, I love that Captain America.

Speaker 3 (02:20:12):
Is coming out on Valentine's Day because it totally is like, yeah, yeah,
you don't have a date, you go see Captain America.

Speaker 2 (02:20:21):
That's too funny. Well, yeah, I don't know. I'm trying
to think of a way to segue that into Cannibal
the Musical. I don't know that there's a good way.

Speaker 3 (02:20:30):
Well I think there is is that Like South Park
is one of the biggest media successes ever in my opinion,
and like multimedia, Like yeah, and it's like if I
think everybody, especially if you think about it, there was
a point this is what I love about. We talked
about south Park on the Lost episode You'll never be
able to get but like south Park has had waves

(02:20:53):
of popularity but has never gone away and to me,
has never lost its anarchic edge. And I love it.
Like we talked about our love for it in that
and it's like there was a time where like everybody,
it was like everywhere, like everybody had on the shirts
and everybody knew who the characters were, and there were
toys and there was video games and stuff, and then

(02:21:14):
it kind of fade away and then it's back. There
was a movie, and now there's other toys, there's other
video games. It's it's one of the few properties I
can think of that has two different network deals. There's
like the Paramount Specials and Comedy Central, do you know
what I mean? And it's like but also it all
comes back to like they also made this movie for Trauma,
and it's like and it's nobody really talks about it.

(02:21:34):
It's like, hey, now Vinegar Cent is putting it out.
So you love South Park, Like, hey, a lot of
you know, the the same creatives that made this. Here's
something else that they did that you might not know about.

Speaker 2 (02:21:45):
Yeah, I mean, just very quickly on South Park, do
you have Like if you look at Simpson's South Park
and Family Guy, whether or not you like them, they're
all driven by somebody that had the ability to not
only create something that was kind of unique, but like
the sustainability is what's hard, right, It's the it's the
doing it week over week over week with a huge

(02:22:07):
crew and like new scripts and trying to stay relevant
and like like it's hard to do that. There's very
few people who can pull that off. So even though
Family Guy is not quite my sense of humor, I
mean I like it okay, but like I respect that
guy McFarland or whatever. Like, yeah, like there's a he's
very similar to the South Park guys I think too,

(02:22:27):
and that he's a multi like he sings and he
kind of does.

Speaker 3 (02:22:30):
Everything like they do, you know what I mean, Like
he's not someone that's just sat back once you start totally.

Speaker 2 (02:22:37):
Yeah, he yeah, exactly likes to get his hands dirty
and like be in the booth recording and like all that,
and like so I don't know, but like I think,
you know, you don't have a hundred of these stories
in history, like and and I think the fact that
south Park has the longevity you see it in uh,
what's the Book of Mormon, Like you see it in

(02:22:59):
Cannibal and musical, Like these are people that just have
this kind of like endless creativity. Like it's just there's
just it's it's amazing. Actually, well it's.

Speaker 3 (02:23:06):
Funny because like if you think about there's so much
of south Park that I don't even realize that is
like ingrained in me of like lines from it, and
like it's shaped a lot of my sense of humor
and it still does. And it's like it's really cool
to go back and watch the new ones now I'm like, Wow,
they're not going after easy targets all the time, and

(02:23:27):
they're I'm afraid to really go after everybody and they
have and uh, that's what I love about it. And
like even like the difference I think with them and
Family Guy is like a lot of some of the
references on south Park are not that the cure is
not supermation, but there's the one episode where you know,
there's the giant uh Robert Smith that fights the mecha

(02:23:47):
striz in yeah, yeah, yeah, and and then as he's leaving,
he goes, hey, Robert Smith. Disintegration is the best album ever.
And I couldn't stop laughing about that because that was
totally me in college, Right, That's totally how I feel, like,
I love that album. But like to put that in
like a show that was that mainstream and that big
at the time, and there's the one episode where they
play Slayer to kill hippies, and like, there's just such

(02:24:08):
little like dumb shit in it, and like and then
as smart as it can be, there can just be
episodes of like any type rein dyes in it. You know,
the dad's in it, like I love him because like
so much shit has happened to him, you know what
I mean, Like he's gotten plastic surgery and he was
like the whole town has transformed numerous times where characters
have disappeared and died, and it's like, if you've watched

(02:24:29):
it through all the seasons, it's like, man, these kids
have been in the same grade forever. And also if
they've been reinvented and they've come back as different characters
in the Paramount ones, like how they got like the
woke versions of them and stuff. Yeah, it's like so
much has changed and it's like and yet there's still
the same kids and like still the same idea of like, oh,
this is how you talk to other because that Cartman's

(02:24:50):
character is amazing, because like you should buy all rights
hate him, but he's my favorite character on the show
just because he's such a just a lunatic and like,
I just love it.

Speaker 4 (02:25:00):
It's just such a and like I love Cannibal.

Speaker 3 (02:25:02):
Too because it's like you can see the same edge
and the same They didn't have yet that big of
an audience, and maybe hadn't. It's like the Michael Manning
they hadn't fully formed out what their vision of things
were even in the first season in South Park, I
don't think they had it, but I think as they've
gone on they picked it up. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:25:17):
But to go back to your Carmon thing for a second,
I think the reason people like him is because he's sincere,
Like he's not. He's kind of this vessel where they
can say and do the meanest things they can imagine
because kids do that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:25:32):
And also like any bully, his real life is really sad,
like his mom. Yeah, obviously he doesn't know his father's
a whole football team, right, maybe exactly, And like his
mom's not there all the time, and he's overweight and
he's compensating, and you know what I mean, Like there's
a lot of stuff. He doesn't really know how to
connect with other kids. He doesn't all the other kids

(02:25:54):
have other friends than just the four of them, if
you think about.

Speaker 2 (02:25:56):
It, Yeah, exactly, And he's the one that.

Speaker 3 (02:25:58):
I guess he has butters, but that's like a parasocial,
weird whatever relationship.

Speaker 2 (02:26:02):
Back right, Yeah, And I think that that's fascinating.

Speaker 3 (02:26:06):
And like I always wondered on the check, like what
are you gonna be like when they grow up and
they're not like this is who we're Like, yeah, I
know we've done the time travel episodes and stuff, but
it's like this is them when they're trapped in this world.
Like that's really cool, Like it's I just saw they
have two new box sets that Walmart has and they're
like seasons one through fifteen and sixteen through thirty. Part
of me is like I should probably buy those because
like I would love to have. I don't know if

(02:26:27):
I'd ever watch all of them, but it'd be nice
to have that history on my shelf.

Speaker 2 (02:26:31):
No, yeah, I still have the old DVDs. It would
be it would take a lot of save a lot
of space if I just would for two sets. But
but that's sincerity that he has, and I think that
even the dad like Randy you talk about that even
like the Crane Fresh episode is so funny because like
you know, it's only like maybe three degrees more than

(02:26:55):
something you've thought about before, Like it's not it's not
like you know, there's there's some But I think that
the same spirit as in Cannibal too, where it's like
the movie works even if you don't love the jokes,
because I mean it, the jokes are pretty juvenile, but like,
even if you don't love the jokes, there's a sincerity
to it and like you know, you they're not trying

(02:27:15):
to like they're just telling an honest story and they're
doing it in a funny, kind of like self aware way,
which is what they do. But like, I don't know,
it's just got like a sweetness to it that I
think That's why I also like South Park and That's
why I also like Book of Mormon is like they
can kind of get away with doing the most batshit

(02:27:38):
stuff because there's kind of a humanity and like a
sweetness under it that if you just stay with them
long enough, you find it and you're like, Okay, I
see what they're doing.

Speaker 4 (02:27:47):
I think I told you.

Speaker 3 (02:27:48):
I read this article that like South Park paved the
way for Trump because of their cynicism and how they
attack people and stuff. I don't see that at all,
because I only see this. I see the sweetness that
you're talking about out and it's like when things inevitably
on that show, there's episodes that end downer and Kenny
gets killed all the time. Yes, I know that, but

(02:28:08):
also a lot of the seasons end on an up note.
But like there's the one where the kids think they're
not gonna be friends anymore and it's really sad, and
when they get back together and they are, it's like, oh, cool,
this is what we were shooting for. Like it's the
best probably is. I know it's fantastical and all over
the place, but it really reminds me of that time
in fourth grade, like when your life, this is your

(02:28:29):
life and the people your world is these people that
you know. It's also interesting that Cannibal is in a
way a regional horror movie. Like if you think about
like Charles Pierce that made The Town of Dreaded Sundown
and Boggy Creek, he was making movies about where he
grew up instaid of Hollywood movies. Yeah, and the same
way these guys Trey and Matt were making a movie

(02:28:50):
about this urb, this legend of where they grew up
in Colorado, and this is their horror story.

Speaker 4 (02:28:55):
And yeah, they're infusing it through a musical and humor.

Speaker 3 (02:28:57):
And silliness, but it still has horror elements and gore
and stuff. So it is kind of like it has
some of the feel of like and it was put
out through trauma, so like it has like some bonafides.

Speaker 4 (02:29:06):
And that's what's kind of cool to me.

Speaker 3 (02:29:08):
It's like, oh, when these guys became, you know, they
have signed one of the biggest deals, Like they're set
for the rest of their lives and they don't have
to work and they still are. And also they started
with trauma, like what's his name that's doing Superman, same
way the Gun. Yeah, and they started here and like
they both but they I think, for both Gun and
for Training Matt, like they haven't lost what makes them

(02:29:29):
unique and what I love about them. And it's like
the edge but also like the sweetness with it too.

Speaker 2 (02:29:35):
My co hosts and they live by filling the other
one that I do. They make fun of me because
I don't watch a lot of any movies, but I'll
go see anything that Gun does. Yeah, They're like, well,
you're just seeing it because he's like a trauma guy,
and like no, really, like that is the reason, Like
that's exactly the reason.

Speaker 3 (02:29:51):
I Mean, the Last Guardians of the Galaxy was great,
Like the whole thing with Rocket, Like it was really
dark and like really like a and I really just
loved that movie. Like I love the stuff he's been doing.
I'm excited for his Superman to see what it's going
to be.

Speaker 2 (02:30:06):
He he It's That's one of those moments where I
was like in the theater, like holy shit, Like I
can't believe this isn't a major movie because like he
goes through it like you know, and it ends in
a sweet note, but like, man, he goes through it.

Speaker 3 (02:30:19):
Oh my god, when that girl gets killed that he's
in love of the I like start crying in the theater,
I think, And it's like I said it with my
wife loves rock Raccoons. He was like a dog. I'm like,
he came watch this movie because it's too emotional, like
stuff that he goes through is too much and like,
but it also explains to you, like I really like
like for as much as people to cry superhero movies

(02:30:40):
like Rocketman in Arc through the three movies from a cynical, mean,
almost villain to by the end of the last movie,
he's leading the New Guardians and he's taken care of them.
And how often in any major like Blockbuster movie, have
you seen someone make that character of arts?

Speaker 2 (02:30:55):
Right, That's right, Yeah, I totally agree. And I mean
even Suicide Squad. If you look at whatever that messes
of the first one versus Guns, it's the same movie,
but it's just so much better and more interesting and funny.

Speaker 3 (02:31:09):
That's my favorite comic book, right, I love Suicide Squad
probably of all time, is one of my favorite comics.
Well know, he totally didn't.

Speaker 4 (02:31:15):
It's like he gets what it's about.

Speaker 3 (02:31:17):
It's about some horrible people that have put together for
a horrible reason, yet find humanity through it. Yeah, that's
a and that's a weird thing to get across in
a two hour movie of like who do we root for?
And like the first one's just I know, there's another
cut whatever. I don't see how it even fixes it, right,
there's a lot of problems, but like the second one
totally works and it's like, oh, like I don't know,

(02:31:37):
I really liked it, Like and I was shocked that
it wasn't a bigger movie, like.

Speaker 2 (02:31:42):
No, well, there's a different discussion there. But I'm glad
it was made though. I just think it's like it's
the perfect big budget movie. Like if there's more like that,
I'd be in theaters all the time.

Speaker 3 (02:31:52):
I like Creature Commandos a lot, the Max series he did.
It's really good.

Speaker 2 (02:31:56):
Oh I need to see it.

Speaker 4 (02:31:57):
Yeah, I think you'll like it. It's good.

Speaker 3 (02:31:59):
But I'm excited for Superman because like I think I
hate Sorry, this goes way off topic.

Speaker 4 (02:32:04):
I promise I'll go back and this.

Speaker 3 (02:32:05):
I don't like Zack Sinder's take on Superman because it's
all like Superman killing Zod at the end of that
movie is like that's fundamentally not who Superman is. Like
Superman's superpower is that he will find the right way
to do things even though he has all this power, right,
Like him using his strength to destroy someone isn't who
Superman is. And it's like, I remember seeing when Superman

(02:32:26):
Returns came out, there's that scene where he goes to
the bar and drinks beer with Jimils. I'm like, that's
not Superman, Like he wouldn't do that, and it's like
and yeah, it's people are like, oh, is that boring
that Superman's like a boy scout. It's only boring if
you're not creative enough to figure out a way to
make it work.

Speaker 2 (02:32:41):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (02:32:42):
And it's like like Superman doesn't have to be Batman,
like who is a grim and grady character? And we
accept that and like, yeah, maybe if that there, it
kind of goes back to you know, you went through
the whole thing with comics too. I'm sure of like
everybody had to be the Punisher and ghost Rider and
Wolveren and you know, but I love those characters, right,
but I also realized there's characters that aren't those characters
that have to be like in this flavor. And it's

(02:33:03):
like that's what I hated about saxony Er stuff and
he's Justice League too. It's like, does everything have to
be dark all the time? And I'm someone that loves
Watchmen and I'm someone that loves really dark comics.

Speaker 4 (02:33:13):
I love like outlaw comics. But like, I don't know
that's what I'm excited about.

Speaker 3 (02:33:17):
Just from the trailer I saw, it's so funny because
I read everybody like shitting on the trailer for Superman.
I was like, I really like what I saw here,
Like you know what I mean. It feels like hopeful
and it's like it's going to be interesting and like
it's cool that I'm glad that there's not gonna be
like we don't need another origin story of these characters,
Like I don't need to know where we know where
they came from.

Speaker 2 (02:33:36):
No, And I think this is what this is what
happens so good in the best writing. And I think
that's actually funny enough. I think that's the perfect segue
to Scooter McCrae and in just a second.

Speaker 4 (02:33:45):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:33:46):
But like the best writers can incorporate, like like if
you look at Irreversible, I think this is an extreme
example coming from Superman. There's there's not that many people
that can pull that movie off and make it good. Yeah,
you just when you hear about that movie, you're like,
what the fuck? Why would I ever want to watch that?
And it's an appropriate reaction to hearing about the movie.

(02:34:08):
But if the whole point of that film is time
destroys everything and it starts with the pain and it
ends in a beautiful place, it just messes with your mind.
Like I remember leaving the theater and for like a
day afterwards, I couldn't stop thinking about it because the
order in which he lays everything out is just flawless,
and like it, you experience the pain first and you

(02:34:28):
kind of go through this wave of emotions and it
just stays with you. And I think the best writers
know how to portray a movie in a way that's
going to leave you. And you know, we were talking
about on the last episode, we were talking about how
amazing the amazing work that Scuda McCray has done in
Sixteen Tongues and then Shadow Dead in this exact thing.

(02:34:53):
Like you think about these movies for a long time
after you see them, even though neither one of them
has a budget at all.

Speaker 3 (02:34:59):
I think about Shattered at a lot like the journey
that the characters make through it and this world that's
left behind where it's like I think I was talking
to a director a couple weeks ago and the idea
that the problem with post apocalyptic movies is the world
never is really going to end right, like it's going
to go on past it. And that's what Shattered Dead
gets right to me as a post apocalyptic movie. There's

(02:35:20):
still the world and like people are living past death
where they have a second existence and their bodies don't
work anymore, and but none of that is like a
narrator doesn't tell that to you, and there's no soupers
on the screen, and there's nothing. I didn't have to
read three comics as a lead in to get that,
you know what I mean? Like all these these things

(02:35:41):
like I really like, Like I like when movies are
really dense, and I like when like movies really shoot
for stuff like but that's what I like about his movies.
They It's sixteen tons is great too because it's all
these I want more of those people. I want to
know more of their lives with in that hotel, what

(02:36:01):
is going on? Like we talked about Saint Frankenstein, Like
that's like twelve minutes and it's like I got more
of that twelve minutes than anything.

Speaker 2 (02:36:08):
Most most full movies. Like you know, he's he builds
a world so quick, and I think if you talk
to him. I interviewed him not too long ago, and
like I think, you know, he so clearly has one
hundred other pages that don't make it in like he's, Yeah,
he's somebody that you talk about showing up with storyboards
and some of these things, Like he's somebody that overthinks

(02:36:29):
it and then just puts in the stuff that he
thinks is going to be good for the story. And
it shows because every single shot has like some history
or meaning or something. And it's just like you can
very quickly pick up the world. And I know you
haven't seen Black Eyed Susan yet, but I hope you.
I can't wait for you to see it.

Speaker 4 (02:36:48):
I'm dying to see it.

Speaker 3 (02:36:49):
So I'm very excited and I'm gonna talk I'm gonna
do an interview with Scooter about it soon because he
and I talked. Yeah, he's that's the weirdest thay, Like
once you get to know somebody who's worked that you love,
like he'll like some of my posts every once in
a while we're comment on them and I'm like, dude,
like I'm not worthy of.

Speaker 4 (02:37:04):
This, Like you're like, it's like a genius, do you
know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (02:37:07):
Like I think about it, like, so I really like
Richard Kelly who did south Land Tails right and Johnny Darka.
I love south Land Teals. But also it's a mess, right,
and it costs so much and even seeing the other
cut on the error just doesn't make it any easier.
Like there's four graphic novels that you have to read
before it, Like there's so much stuff, and it's like, yeah,

(02:37:27):
I'm obsessed with it. But also Under the Silver likes
another movie like that too, like where it's like it's
a mess, right, but I also like that. But if
you think about, like Scared mccray's movies cost what the
craft service for a day of those movies cost. Yeah,
and he's making something that's a more fully realized world
that has a story with the beginning, middle, and end,

(02:37:48):
but also feels they could go somewhere else, and like
that's amazing. And also a director that nobody that most
people aren't gonna know, and it's like it's so funny
whenever people talk about like who.

Speaker 4 (02:37:58):
Are the great elevated horror directors or who who's making
great things?

Speaker 3 (02:38:03):
Now, it's like his name is in the conversation because
he's you know, not obviously not as well to know
because of how small hist movies are. But to me
that's a shame because like everything he's done for different reasons,
I've loved and I've watch Shattered Head like a ton
of times, and every time I watch it, it's like, oh, man,
like I oh, I get why this character is doing this,

(02:38:23):
and I get this, and it's like also, his movies
are ones where you could just watch them for some
of the shock value, but then there's so much more
beyond that.

Speaker 2 (02:38:31):
You know what it feels like now that we're talking
about it. You know, you remember when Steven Soderbergh just
for fun decided to make a bunch of movies on
his phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's kind of what That's
kind of what MC crazy movies feel like. To me.
It's like he has this whole o the world where
he's made some big budget movies and he's been successful,
and these are like his passion projects. Yeah, because like

(02:38:52):
they just you just don't see it. Well, Okay, what
I'm about to say is not totally true. It's not common,
I think, to see somebody with his ability that never
leaves SLV. And that's that's the thing I'm excited about
with Black Eyed Susan is because yeah, I think people
are honestly when it plays festivals and I guess it's
already started, but I think people are going to take

(02:39:12):
a note and be like, holy shit. Like the way
it's it's not even so much just the content and
the films, but like the way that he brings in
concepts is he just presents these ideas and you have
to as you're watching, you have to think about how
you feel about it, and like the characters conflicted, right,
Because the essential premise of Black Eyed Susan is what

(02:39:34):
if if we have these dark sexual urges that we
that are not culturally acceptable to play out? So in
this case, it's it's like physical abuse during sex, like
beating a woman during sex? Not cool? Right, and like
in a non consensual way, right, not cool? So what
if we were to make a series of robots and

(02:39:55):
like AI that allow you to get that out? And
then therefore the world could be safe, right, Like that's
like the the humans aren't getting impacted, right.

Speaker 3 (02:40:04):
This is one of the questions I have for him
in the interview is like when Anthony they disappeared in
the set, not disappeared, but went away in the seventies,
wasn't doing media when he came back in the eighties
and nineties. He talked about one of the five points
of realization of the Church of Satan was he believed
that androids would become sex. Androids would become a major

(02:40:25):
thing at that point, and he preached one of the
same things. It's like, if you have an apparent sexual trait,
if there is an android that can take care of it,
and it doesn't become a crime, and it takes out
that need that you have for it, then there's no man.
Siner like waw like sin didn't really matter to him
as much as as you know, it's not against the law,

(02:40:47):
and are we saving actual human beings by having these androids?
And to him that was like a source of making
money for the future. And then also and like kind
of like with like real dolls and stuff. I can
see that. So like the plot, I'm I'm wondering how
much of it was based on that thought, if at all.
But I've always found that fascinating like that, like oh,
like because like it's weird, like you know, you think,

(02:41:09):
like how guys make fun of each other for sex,
and it's like, oh, well, you used a blow up
doll or used a real dollar, you know, all these things,
and it's like, yeah, but isn't that better than the
alternative nothing or you know, the alternative having these really
violent fantasies. I don't know, It's that's why I'm excited
to see this movie.

Speaker 4 (02:41:27):
It's a really fascinating topic.

Speaker 2 (02:41:28):
And he and he there's a I mean, there's another
twist kind of at the end that goes into a
darker place. But like the thing that I like about
it is it's another one of these ones kind of
like no way or kind of like like I think
Shinyasukamoto does this in an interesting way too, But like
there's just these people that can put a lot of
really i mean, I don't know how to say it,

(02:41:49):
really fucked up ideas in a film, but but they
can contain them, and they can control them, and they
can like you can tell you're watching a vision of
somebody that has something to say and like or in
the case of Scooter, just wants to present questions and like,
let you have that discussion, but like give you a
nice kind of guideline to have that discussion with.

Speaker 3 (02:42:09):
And I love the character like in sixteen Times that
is you know, the namesake of the movie, that his
entire unit is on him now that he has their
flesh on him, He's tracked with these ghosts of these
people that he let down. Just that one idea is
enough for a whole movie, that's right. That's not the
only idea in that movie.

Speaker 2 (02:42:27):
That's right, Like, that's just part part.

Speaker 3 (02:42:28):
Of the ideas. And like what you could do a
whole God, you could do tons of stories just about
that character, Like what's it like to be in his
head now? And he's also then he's trapped inside this
hotel where it feels like sex is what it's about,
but really the sex isn't. It's more power and it's
more I'm sexy. Right for a movie that's about sex,

(02:42:50):
Like it doesn't come off as like, oh, you can
get off to this movie. No, it's like and that's
what I liked about I like I like adult movies
where you can tell the directors were like, yeah, no,
but he could get off to this like The Dark
Brothers and a few other ones where it's just like, yeah, like,
that's not why we're making this movie, and we're making
an art movie, but we had to have some penetration
in it just so that people would let us make it.

(02:43:12):
That happens a lot more in the seventies of like
some of the you know, the other label that Severn's
putting out, where it's like, oh, okay, that's why, like
the Ron Solven stuff that's coming out, and some of
the other ones where it's like, oh cool, like but
then like now all we have is you know, porn hub,
and it's just like, let's just get to the act
versus like there can be room for a story. I
get The Barber Broadcast is an awesome movie, and not

(02:43:34):
just because the peririd parts of it. So that's what
I like about that movie is like you could come
into a thinking like, oh, this is gonna be totillating,
and it's not, and it's here's why, Like here's why
this whole building it's in the building in sixteen times
becomes almost a character itself in it, Like what is
this weird place and why are these people drawn to it?
And it's funny because it's so contain versus shattered. It

(02:43:55):
feels so big. So I'm excited to see what comes next.

Speaker 2 (02:43:58):
Yeah yeah, I mean, just to just to pack on
the praise. I mean, you know, he's very open about
the people that worked on that film with him, not
that there was a lot, but like the entire wall
of like sex ads and like that, that entire world
where you kind of understand there's that main wall that
they passed that really kind of puts you in the world.
Like a friend just made that, Like he just showed

(02:44:18):
up to set with that. He was like whoa, yeah,
hell yeah, let's go, you know. Like so anyways, but yeah,
Black Eyed Susan, I think I loved it some people
that I don't know if everybody that has seen it
has been quite as high on it as I have.
But I think for fans of Shadowed Dead and sixteen
Tongues and I mean, this is just it's right in line.

(02:44:40):
It feels like from the same filmmaker, and it feels
like he's getting I think because they're shooting on sixteen
millimeter and it's a little bit bigger budget. Yeah, like
I think you're able to see beyond just like what
you're talking about where you know, okay, like this, there's
a brilliant story in here. A lot of people have

(02:45:01):
a little bit difficulty getting past the aesthetic of it,
which fair, I mean people have.

Speaker 3 (02:45:06):
I'm a big shot on video fan right like, and
like we've done commentaries for Visual Vengeance about some films
and stuff, and it's like it's very much in my heart.
So like me defending it is going to come off
maybe as hollow, because of course I love it, right,
but it's like I think some people tend to look
at the format and say, oh, well those are junkie
and they shot those cheap, so they don't have any merit,

(02:45:28):
and so I'm excited, whow I still want him to
keep his foot in this low tech world, you know
what I mean. Like, like there's a movie like the
Short somewhere in Michigan. Like I love that that short,
Like it's a shot on video and I think it's
like a true piece of art. But also someone could
look at and be like, oh, well, this has tracking

(02:45:49):
lines and it looks cheap, like cheapness in a movie
always feels like it makes people look down on it
or that's the first thing they say. It's like as
much as that like Mystery sens Theater, it's kind of
ruined some people's ideas of what a movie could be, right,
because like I would, I will defend a movie like
manis the Hands of Fate, Right, I love that movie
because it's really weird. It creates a world of just

(02:46:11):
strangeness of like even so before we got the cleaned
up one, you couldn't see any lights of the city
like that. The whole place where manisluts is this black, inky,
dark world where reality doesn't make sense and people turn
against each other and it's like, yeah, it's all amateur
people making it, but still like it's a fascinating story,
and like I think it comes from like the first

(02:46:31):
movie criticism I read as a kid was the Golden
Turkey Wards books, right, oh okay, yeah, so in all
those books it was like, oh, Edward's the worst filmmaker ever.
And then like when it came from Hollywood, was on HBOT,
like I finally got to see parts of Glennard Glenda
and it's people laughing at it. But when you go
back today and watch Glennard Glenda like it's a really

(02:46:52):
brave movie, Like it's not. And it's like he was
making a movie about his sexuality at a time where
like nobody talked about that, right, and it's like, yeah,
some of the shots are bad and yeah, like it's
a really dramatic, but it's like it's an a tour
work and it's like and it's like, I don't think
of him as a bad filmmaker.

Speaker 4 (02:47:10):
It's like I hate when people.

Speaker 3 (02:47:11):
Say, oh, well that's dumb because you know we could
riff on that, or you know, I play a nine
print or space is stupid in the same way like
people get like that about shot on video, where it's like, yeah,
some of it is junkie, but nine of all films
or shit anyway, like when you find like the gold,
when you find the gold and the crap and you're
like wow, like this like a movie like Limbo that

(02:47:32):
Tina krausted or Scooters movies that are shot on video.
The abomination is another big one that I always triumph,
like these movies like really have something to say and
they're great, and it's like it's just because the format
democratized how easy it was to make the film. Is
there may in an error where shooting things cost money

(02:47:54):
like today, Like this is what drives me nuts, because
we all have the capability to make a great movie
with our I film right now, we have editing software,
we have a four K camera, and nobody's making movies
as wild as the s O b Era people.

Speaker 4 (02:48:07):
Yeah, and that that upsets me.

Speaker 3 (02:48:09):
And I think so that Scooters still making movies, that
you know a few other the directors from that area
are still making movies, Like it gives me hope, like
it's bat Yeah, I know, like Mark Poni's movies aren't great,
but I love that he's still making movies and still
doing stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:48:22):
Or someone like Donald Farmer.

Speaker 4 (02:48:23):
Yeah, I love Donald Farmer.

Speaker 3 (02:48:25):
Yeah, I love that In Baltimore there's these two or
Don dolar is another one too, Like there's this like
Don dolar and and uh what do you? And John
Waters are on opposite sides of Baltimore, using a lot
of the same cast and a lot of the same
people and like making their own weird universes, like ones
about like scat and weird sex and the other ones

(02:48:46):
about aliens and like like I love that, like did
they ever get together at the bar and have a
drink together, like I would love you know what I mean.
But that's why I love SV and I love Scooters
movies so much because also it all comes back to
like they're not so I totally soapbox that but like, uh, you,
like nobody was giving them notes and saying like what

(02:49:06):
if why is this character doing this? And and why
are why are these things happening? Yeah, And it's like
that leads to surprise, and that leads to not being
like you talked about your in last watch, just whatever's
on Netflix? What are those movies? Is ever going to shock?
Those movies aren't made to surprise you. Those movies are
made to placate you. And I just give you something
to fall asleep too, and just to oh, I'll watch

(02:49:27):
this after dinner and you know, we'll just have a
nice night. It'll let us chill out from the busy
day of work.

Speaker 2 (02:49:32):
And there's you know, yeah, I think it just depends
on how you engage entertainment, right, I engage to be
challenged or de find something new, and like I don't
I've kind of gotten I used to come from a
more like snobby place about it, but I'm.

Speaker 4 (02:49:47):
Trying not to.

Speaker 3 (02:49:47):
Yeah, I'm trying not.

Speaker 2 (02:49:48):
Yeah, like everybody wants it right, and that's fine. Like,
I mean, I have my moments. Like we were talking
about the Great British Baking Show, like I can watch that.
I can alwatch that every single night, and like that's
I watch it for different reasons. It's just a nice,
pleasant place to be for a while.

Speaker 3 (02:50:05):
At the end of the line.

Speaker 2 (02:50:07):
But yeah, I did want to mention quickly because I
kind of forgot we got the talking about these movies,
so we mentioned Congo's of VSU release, Cannibal the Musical
is a Degausa release, and they have a really interesting history.
So they've only put out a few titles. One of
them is read in Neck Zombies, which is s o V.

(02:50:27):
And then they put out Hot Ncat the Obolika, which
is the sort of like the movie from Mexico, which
is sort of a chucky ripoff. I guess that's just
that's a wild movie. And there's a really good episode
on Oh What Armando texts uh no, no, no trash trash Max.

(02:50:48):
Have you heard that podcast yet?

Speaker 4 (02:50:51):
Yeah, I haven't heard yet. But that's like I love
Dom Panic, So it's right up my alley. Like that's
another movie.

Speaker 3 (02:50:58):
Like I like all those movies, the Mexican ones that
Vinegar Cent put out, like Grave Robbers and uh call
it uh.

Speaker 2 (02:51:06):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, I know what you're talking about,
the Cemetery of Terror and.

Speaker 3 (02:51:10):
The Cemetery like all those Like I had the dollar
cheapy ones I got at a Mexican grocery store here
for years and now I'm like, oh, my wife's like,
why are you spending forty bucks for these movies?

Speaker 4 (02:51:20):
You bought it or so cheap.

Speaker 3 (02:51:21):
But it's like has such a cool, weird, rich history
of odd horror, and like I love that those are.
Like Hell's Trap is another one that just came out yep,
and like I love that movie because it's like, oh,
at once, like Deliverance meets Friday of their Teeth meets
Freddy meets Halloween, like it has like it's such like

(02:51:41):
a millage of influences, but yet it comes out to
be its own movie and like and like I.

Speaker 4 (02:51:47):
Love like everything but obviously like uh.

Speaker 3 (02:51:51):
And trep with Has Punks was like my dream release,
Like I've been waiting for that to come out forever.
Like I love the fact that it's like also like
a real lucha like tars In in that movie is
uh his son's in w W now and like, uh yeah,
it's like like he's like he's actually one of the
heads of the wrestling Commission in Mexico City now and like, uh,
it's awesome that, like uh that I love the gang

(02:52:13):
in that movie that like they look like like movie punks,
which I love movie punks, right, yeah, and like they're
they're devoted to like marijuana, satan and getting fucked up
and like they.

Speaker 4 (02:52:24):
Like chant about it and stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:52:25):
Yeah, and like it's so great, Like I like, there's
just like just such a joy in that movie. It's
funny cause I was thinking about when we talk about
Police Academy, like my politics might like lean super left,
but my like movie politics lean totally right wing. Like
when Charles Bronson like like sets up the Giggler and
death Wish three right to get killed, I'm like, yeah,

(02:52:47):
fuck those guys, and like, but you know then rational
me is like, yeah, you know what that was police
brutality and that was wrong and and all these things
versus like intrepid of punks.

Speaker 4 (02:52:57):
Lets me indulge my mania for like yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:53:00):
Like anarchy basically anarchy. Yeah, and it's like, you know,
this is not the world that I want to live in,
but part of me is like, yeah, like I wish
I could live with these crazy bikers in a cave
and like with fog everywhere. Like what a wild movie?
Like both of them are wild.

Speaker 2 (02:53:15):
Yeah, the second one doesn't slow down at all.

Speaker 3 (02:53:17):
No, and it's like, man, like I love it.

Speaker 8 (02:53:21):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:53:21):
It introduced me to something like Infernal Rapist one of
the girl who's the leader the biker gangs in that too.
That was a movie that I thought when it came
out that people were gonna be really upset about. And
I think other than people not liking it, I.

Speaker 4 (02:53:32):
Love that movie because it's so weird and it's like what,
like that's.

Speaker 3 (02:53:36):
What's caoled, Like there's a no rules ish ness both
the SV andto that Mexican Rental Areas era cinema, especially
with like the Narco movies and like sometimes from the covers,
like we couldn't tell what was a Narco movie and
what was a horror movie because they they wanted people
to rent it, so you would like make it look
like a Freddy movie no matter what. And it's like

(02:53:56):
until you watched it, you had no idea what you
were getting, right, Like that's pretty cool, Like that doesn't
happen anymore. We're not surprised by what we watch anymore.
Like you know, everybody wants to do their research for
they get into a movie, and those movies are like,
to me, the last bashion of them, I was like,
I don't know what this movie is, Like it's crazy
and I love it. Yeah, So I'm so glad they're
coming out, like I want. Yeah, I have like a

(02:54:18):
wish list of those movies that's so long, Like Hell's
Trap was a big one on it and I was like, yeah,
like that's a great movie.

Speaker 2 (02:54:24):
Well, I would strongly recommend for anybody who has not
listened to trash Max's podcast because they're chronicling and basically
Mexican cinema and like, yeah, a lot of the stuff
they talk about is being covered by Vinegar Syndrome or
maybe seven or one of these, but they also just
talk about stuff that's that's not out yet. But the
people that put it on are engaged in some of

(02:54:46):
the releases, even behind the scenes. Like one guy was
talking about how the director for Intrepredos punks the vinegar
syndrome asked him if they could call the director, and
he just like called him up to ask for like
some print and and he just tells a cool story
about where the guy was like asking his wife like
do you do you know if we even have this still?
You know, He's like maybe they went to check.

Speaker 3 (02:55:07):
I've been doing some of that for a label that
I did stuff for, And it's like trying to find
who has s of v stuff and does anyone even
have a master anymore?

Speaker 4 (02:55:18):
Yeah, it is so weird.

Speaker 3 (02:55:19):
And it's like because a lot of times like either
people don't want that, like they moved on to other
things and it's not on their resume anymore, or like
we found a couple. There's a couple where people died
and like I had to find their who's their Mexican
or who was their lawyer and like just making making
calls to get it and find it, and like none

(02:55:41):
of them have. Like I have a lot of fish
out there that had him, Like some are like slightly biting.
One got really close, and I'm really upset that it
didn't because like when they finally got the contracts back
from the guy, they were like ridiculous. He's like, you know,
I want if they were like he wanted, like the
kind of stuff like Samley Kubrick would ask for. And
he's like, do you under stand with this is like
a Sean and video movie that like fifteen hundred people

(02:56:03):
might buy. Like we're like, you know, we love your
movies and we just want to put them out.

Speaker 2 (02:56:07):
I can give you, yeah, but it was like, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:56:11):
I want final cut on and I want I want
to do the color grading. And it's like okay, but
he said it was just like he's like I kind
of hope we can come back to him because like
only two of this director's movies have been released in
the US, The Restaurant on YouTube, and it's like I
love all of them so much, and like it's like
it would be my dream if like these could come
out and like more people could see them and get

(02:56:32):
into them, Like I know Eric and and I as
to know who who this director is, so I don't
want to like spoil it by saying who he is.
And it's like, but like when other stuff comes out,
like that's the cool thing about Visual Vengeance is like
The Abomination was like a movie that like I had
a bootleg for years, and I never thought we'd get
like a blu ray upscale version of this that looks
somewhat decent, right, And there's a couple other ones like

(02:56:54):
that that are coming out, like Suburban Sasquatch was another one.
We do the content and that Yeah, like this movie
is like again, it goes back to that like if
I showed it to somebody, if I feel like I
could recommend it to you and you would get something
out of it versus other people, Like this movie costs
four hundred dollars, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (02:57:10):
Like, and like the suit's horrible and like, but on
the other.

Speaker 3 (02:57:14):
Hand, it's like, yeah, but this is like a guy's
entire family made this movie and they all like all
of his friends and like they all got together and
they made it like up by Philly, and it's like
it's just like a goofy, weird movie that has like
something to say a different thing to say about Bigfoot.

Speaker 4 (02:57:30):
And like the fact.

Speaker 3 (02:57:31):
That I get to talk to these directors too now
and like do some interview stuff before we do the
commentaries is like a joy because it's like I love
like despiser just is the last the last one we do.
I don't know if you've seen that one yet, and
like that movie. That movie is awesome, Like I don't
care how much it costs. It's like if you combine
The Stand with Lord of the Rings and like an

(02:57:51):
old like offshoot D and D game like Gamma World,
and like did a lot of drugs, and it's about
like it gets everything in it from like Limbo to
like tan Guska, like the incident where a meteor hit
Russia at the talk turn of the century, and like
demons and like people stuck in between heaven and hell
and like near death situations.

Speaker 4 (02:58:12):
It's all shot on.

Speaker 3 (02:58:14):
Digital video and the director did all the effects himself,
so it looks kind of like a weird black light
poster that you would see at Spencer's in the seventies,
Like it doesn't feel it or like PlayStation one aerographics.
But on the other hand, like it builds again. People
would look down at by like, well, that doesn't look real.
That's their thing. I hate, like it doesn't look real
because we expect cgi now, we expect things to look perfect.

(02:58:35):
And like Philip Cooke, the director of it, I talked
to him about it and it's like, well, yeah, it's
not supposed to look perfect. It's supposed to look a
little fake. It's supposed to look kind of cartoony. And
that's what I love about it. Like it's such a
cool movie, and like the ideas in it are like
big budget ideas, but on this one guy by himself
with green screen, with like eight people making the movie,
and like, isn't that isn't that what we want to see?

(02:58:57):
I don't know, at least to me, Like that's something
that I want to see, And like I love that
the company puts these out with like all these extras
and like to and like and like stickers, and like
the cover art is insane, Like the cover art is
like almost over sells you on the movie. And then
that we get to talk about this movie, and like
like I don't try to come at them preciously. Like
there's a lot of dick jokes, like when I talk

(02:59:19):
about a movie, right, but like on the other hand,
like I really like talking about and being like here's
the reason why I think this movie is worthwhile, because
like it's doing something that no other And again, like
it's not without a net and without notes and you know,
so that's why I'm excited when I get that feeling
for maybe that's why, like for the vinegar sensor of stuff.
I'm still looking for that, like in their Mexican releases

(02:59:39):
or like the weirder like blood tracks maybe versus like
I'm not going to get that in Congo, but I
am going to get that maybe and looking for mister
Goodbar though, and I'm maybe in a little bit in Sliver,
I'm gonna get it.

Speaker 4 (02:59:52):
You know, it's I think it's every movie is different.

Speaker 2 (02:59:54):
No, yeah, I agree, and they they're again I mean
to me, I hate to say I don't care because
that sounds like cynical. But if whether or not I
like Congo, the fact that they can sell two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars or five hundred thousand dollars by
the time it runs, like, to me, that's that's all.

Speaker 3 (03:00:16):
It's fine, Like, yeah, if it like Scooter makes two
more movies exactly, then they can put out.

Speaker 4 (03:00:25):
I'm trying to think of a movie that the Notebook,
I don't know, like something like that.

Speaker 3 (03:00:29):
Yeah, I doubt they ever would, but you know it
would sell.

Speaker 2 (03:00:32):
That would have to be a VSL probably, But I guess.
Speaking of VSL, the one of the only one this
month that I just didn't get to was from VSL,
and I'm a little bummed because the studio they're gonna
have two in a row from this studio, So this
one is neither the Sea nor the Sand. And then
the one that I have on pre order is The

(03:00:52):
Terra or Notts.

Speaker 3 (03:00:54):
I love that movie. That movie's awesome.

Speaker 2 (03:00:56):
Yeah, like there was this it's this cool kind of
like second tier British studio. Well I don't know if
it's second tier, but it's not Hammer.

Speaker 3 (03:01:02):
Oh yeah, it's like te Gun and Amicus were the
other two that were like not Hammer that like did
get stuff into the US, but like yeah they don't.
They're not considered in the same rarefied air as Hammer.

Speaker 2 (03:01:16):
Right, but they I mean, you know this one sounds awesome.
I mean it's like it has a great cast. It's
apparently a riff on the Monkey's paw. It's a British
Gothic horror and so I mean it has Susan Hampshire
in it, It's got the guy from Turkey Shoot the
Michael Petrovitch is in it. Yeah, I don't know. I

(03:01:37):
mean I'm I'm excited to see it. I just didn't
get to it yet, but I'm excited for this one.
And VSL is probably the line for me that's been
the most hit or miss. But if they're hitting fifty
percent of the time, I'll still watch it and I'll
still check him out because they also have like the
Peter Schulkin stuff and you know those movies are unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (03:01:58):
It he can like also put out like which funder
General and uh the Blood on Satan's Claw. So like
they it's like almost like there were like critically reappraising
them years later, do you know what I mean, like
through physical media.

Speaker 4 (03:02:11):
Yeah, and like neither the Scene or the Sand was
like one of their last movies they put up.

Speaker 3 (03:02:15):
But like they their stuff almost feels like they're kind
of ahead of My favorite Hammer is like dirty Hammer.

Speaker 4 (03:02:22):
I call it like when Hammer was.

Speaker 3 (03:02:23):
Like, oh, like post seventy two where they're like, uh,
like Twins of Evil is probably my favorite one where
it's like we've got to start showing press and and
have weirder stuff happened, and have hippies in our movies
and stuff like that. Like that's the era of Hammer
that I really like and it's like but also that's
the era of that everybody else hates, right, And I
feel like that with the t gund movies where they're
kind of like just a little weird and different. Amicus

(03:02:43):
is my favorite because I go love the Portmanteaus and
and like I love their stuff, but like I'm really
am attracted. So seeing like the Tyrannaut's coming out like
that makes me think, like, wow, VSL's, like what other
small studios like that can they get and like released
to hear where people are gonna maybe see those for
the first time.

Speaker 2 (03:03:00):
Well, that's so I'm wondering, I mean, like if they
because they've done a couple from from Poland, and so
are they going and buying these in bundles? Which is great, right,
and and maybe you can have a few that are
kind of released close together. But the there was also
a cinematograph release, and I'm kind of surprised there was
only one, but Justin's already said publicly there's gonna be

(03:03:26):
I think sixteen and twenty twenty five, so he's he's
you know, he's going for it. But but cinematograph is
a line that I've liked way more than I've not
liked and Who Killed Teddy Bear is one that came
out that is I think is I like it a lot.
It's just like a have you seen it? You have,
you've seen it.

Speaker 3 (03:03:46):
I haven't seen it. And you know, based on the
last episode we're talking about recommendation, I'm going to get
that and Black Eyed Susan and do an order of
those two. Yeah, just so I guess I am fascinated
by from reading it and also who in it, And
it feels like it has a lot of things I'm looking.

Speaker 4 (03:04:02):
For, like the forty second Street sleeves, and also.

Speaker 3 (03:04:07):
Like the nascence, Like it feels like a good point
in between Peeping Tom and like the Startus Slashers and
Black Christmas.

Speaker 4 (03:04:14):
It feels like a good point in the middle.

Speaker 2 (03:04:16):
Yeah, it's like, you know, they always used to make
those like sex sort of like peril movies where it's
like make sure you're not having unprotected sex and doing
drugs and like, but they would use it as an
excuse to show a little bit of nudity or something. Yeah,
it kind of feels like right in between like that
and then like full blown New Hollywood or blown like

(03:04:36):
it's just like kind of right in that middle ground
in terms of.

Speaker 3 (03:04:39):
Like square up real movies like that, yeah, where it's
like let's show you especially like girls in trouble movies.

Speaker 4 (03:04:44):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Like here's.

Speaker 3 (03:04:46):
A whole bunch of apparent stuff. And by the way,
like hey, she got an abortion and this doctor helped
her and back with her family. Everything turned out okay,
and then they talk right to the camera again like
that square up yeah, and it's like everything's okay now,
know that doesn't happen in this movie at all, so.

Speaker 2 (03:05:03):
Like no, but it does feel like one generation away
from that, I guess. Yeah. But it's also it's got
you know, it really kind of has some dark material
in it because the guy basically is I don't even
know what the right word is, but basically he's calling
her and enforcing this kind of like phone sex on
her and she hates it. Makes it very clear, and

(03:05:25):
she's trying to figure out what this cop and then
the cop kind of gets engaged in a weird way,
like probably way too close to her, and but then
she eventually kind of gets into a little bit and
it's just it's like the whole thing is just this
weird tension where it's like humans not really knowing how
to act with each other. And yeah, but it's still
is just close enough to that, like you know warning

(03:05:48):
kind of kind of early warning movies that it's got
like an innocence to it as well. So I don't know,
but it's a it's a cool movie. I liked it
a lot actually.

Speaker 3 (03:05:56):
And then we talked about it before Arnold Drake going
back to the Guardians of the Guy, the creator of
Gridings of the Guach, he wrote this movie, and like.

Speaker 4 (03:06:04):
The cast is a lot of people I like, I love.

Speaker 3 (03:06:07):
Bruce Clover yeah wow.

Speaker 4 (03:06:09):
Yeah, and like and Daniel J.

Speaker 3 (03:06:10):
Trabronta love him too, Like so there's a sound many
like this was his like trying to break out. That's
a rule.

Speaker 4 (03:06:17):
Yeah, So like, yeah, I'm excited to see it.

Speaker 3 (03:06:19):
Like it feels like I think it's like an important
kind of movie for them to put out, do you
know what I mean? Like this feels like that's what's
is that kind of like the ethos of this this
line of like.

Speaker 2 (03:06:30):
I guess, so you know, people say people say just
kind of like a little bit the more cynical folks
say that this is just their version of Fun City
editions when when Fun City left. But I don't know
that that's really fair because like you know, the fact
that they put out shanks to me, that's just like
an old timer. And Y and Go Fish was such
an important movie when it came out, and I don't

(03:06:52):
know if a lot of people understand quite how impactful
that was for lesbians to see themselves portrayed as just
like imperfect and and weird and normal and just friendly
like you just like everyday life. Like there wasn't some
broader point about sexuality. It was just like one of
these nineties movies where everybody tries to be smarter than

(03:07:13):
the other person.

Speaker 3 (03:07:14):
But it was also it's not a movie where like
the lesbian ends up being a killer or or like
a horrible or like conflicted, like I as much as
I like Dressed to kill, like it's depiction of LGBTQ
sexuality is not good sure, And like you know, and
well basic instinct too, write like that's a big part

(03:07:36):
of it. It's like, well, she's like an evil lesbian
killer even like I love cruising and there's the new
four Cave it coming up. It's like, man, there's a
lot of problems with that too. It's like it's it's hard.
So it's like, yeah, it's good to have these movies
that get to a point where it's like, yeah, we
can just have they're not token characters that we can
just have somebody in it.

Speaker 2 (03:07:56):
Yeah, and I loved I mean, I'm a little bit bias.
I'm gonna like anything a Belle Ferrara does. He kinda
I feel like him and I are kind of on
the same wavelength in a weird way. But like, I
love Dangerous Game. I don't know if you saw that one,
but it's awesome. Like I think it's way way under discuss.

Speaker 4 (03:08:16):
Yeah, I want to see it.

Speaker 3 (03:08:17):
I think I love that his movies are His Body
Snatchress is one of my favorite movies.

Speaker 2 (03:08:24):
But this is not see this is the weird thing.
I mean, yes, I love it. Yeah, this is the
funny thing about this. It's like this is this is
I keep saying a Belle Frere he goes is able
forer Ara.

Speaker 3 (03:08:34):
I'm not trying.

Speaker 2 (03:08:35):
I'm trying to make it more fancy able for Ara.
It's like a bad habit I have. But he keeps
you know, his movies are like kind of theatrical or
big or like, yeah, there's something but like this is
like Harvey Kaitel just self destructing, and like you're just
watching this guy who's so arrogant but like but also

(03:08:56):
broken kind of self destruct and be terrible with relationships.
And it just feels like this is able for being
like writing himself. Yeah, and he and he doesn't like himself,
Like why.

Speaker 3 (03:09:08):
I think it's interesting that, like he's someone that you
could pitcheonhole into this like End of the seventies early eighties,
like End of the World, New York, right with like
Miss forty five and then Driller Killer. Yeah, these are
like really dark movies, so seeing like one that is less.

Speaker 4 (03:09:25):
Horror influenced, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (03:09:28):
And more I don't know if it's slice light, but
that's interesting to me of his films. No, it's funny.
Mine my grandfather, you know, he was born in the twenties.
He loved The Bad Lieutenant, like I don't know why, like,
and he would watch it all the time, like, oh
interesting near the end of his life, like these were
his two obsessions, The Bad Lieutenant and Paul Simon's Grace
Land album. Right, like I don't understand that. It was

(03:09:51):
always fascinating because he was definitely he looked like John
Wayne's definitely a guy's guy and worked in Still Mills
whole life. But like he was like he loved both
of those And I'm like, why do you like Bad
Lieutenant so much? And he's like he would always want
me to watch it with him. My Grandma's like, don't
put that movie on. It's so gross, Like nobody wants
to watch that movie. And I was like I do,
like I want to watch it. Yeah, I'll watch it
with him again. And it's like he had a weird

(03:10:14):
ethos about movies because like I remember, I thought that
he would want to see Saving Private Ryan because he
was in a lot of those battles, and like he hated.
He's like this movie is bullshit, like it's supposed to
be realistic. He's like nothing, and this is realistic. He's like,
I don't want to live this again. He's like, fuck
this movie, and he hated he likes stuff like Bad Lieutenant,
where he was like this is grizzly, like like birs,
Like he liked that movie in the car. These are

(03:10:36):
two like if he had a personal cannon it would
be those two movies. Another HBO movie that was on
all the time. That's why I love that movie so much,
because it's like I watched that movie at least forty
times with my grandfather, you know, on.

Speaker 2 (03:10:49):
A completely different end of the spectrum. My grandmo so
she was born in nineteen nineteen. She died a few
years back, but she made it to one hundred and
one and her favorite movie of all time was Dumb
and Dumber. Oh wow, So you just never know.

Speaker 3 (03:11:03):
My grandmother was really into the Douglas Sirk stuff, right,
like music, super much intramatic and like I never watched
any of them, and she would always tell me about him,
And this year I watched a couple of them, and
I'm like, man, like I love these movies because like,
maybe for a camp value, I love them, but like
I really liked them way more than I think. If
I had watched them when I was young and she
wanted me to watch them, I probably would have hated them, right,

(03:11:25):
I would have been bored by them. But today watching it,
I was like, wow, like I really like these like
and it kind of like it feels like a new obsession,
like a new place to go down and watch some
of these movies that.

Speaker 2 (03:11:37):
There's a lot of them.

Speaker 3 (03:11:38):
Yeah, there's a time, yeah years, Yeah I can't.

Speaker 2 (03:11:42):
I'm I think I might be slowly coming around. I
forced myself to watch a couple like Written on the
Wind or whatever, the a couple of these ones, and
I liked them more than I thought I would, I
have to know.

Speaker 3 (03:11:51):
That's the thing is, like I I was totally going
in like this is gonna be way too much, and
and like Imitation of Life is the one I'm thinking of,
and it's like it there's so much in it, like
where like the one character like is dying through the
whole movie, like it she takes like the whole movie
to die, right. But it's like on the other hand,
like there are these moments of like raw emotion and

(03:12:13):
that maybe aren't real, that are manufactured but still cool,
and like it also lets me see my grandmother better
because she was very given to drama and stuff. So
like it's it's interesting, like to take someone that you
love and don't really maybe know much about outside of it,
you know, I you know, it was like she wasn't
in my life but like surface things and be like,

(03:12:34):
oh I can I look at these movies that she liked,
in these high dramas and say, oh, this is what
she was getting out of it. This was like an
escape from a very like maybe boring existence and like
feeling these feelings that you know, she was like morephobic
and didn't leave the house for forty years and like
it found it really hard to leave the house. Like
were these movies like a window into these worlds and

(03:12:55):
these emotions that she would never allow herself to have,
which you know, sense.

Speaker 2 (03:12:59):
Of Boulevard something that was like the main one of
those ones.

Speaker 3 (03:13:02):
Yeah, I love and I love Sunset Boulevard, Like I
think that's another one that's like just like a great movie,
like it's got so much cool and also like it
taught me that like, oh wow, movies can start at
the end, like when I first saw it when I
was young, and Citizen Kane does too like it. I
remember like it as much as like, oh I love
Citizen Kane sounds like, yeah, that's bullshit, Like everybody you're

(03:13:24):
taught that that's, you know, a great film. When it
was impossible to see PREVHS era, it played on TV
like on a UHF channel here and my dad made
me sit down and watch it. Like I said, don't
have any toys. I was like ten, Like what.

Speaker 4 (03:13:36):
Am I going to get?

Speaker 3 (03:13:37):
A Citizen Kane and like and he said, I want
you to watch this because we might never see it again,
because that was nineteen eighty one eighty two. When will
we see it? And like, I remember thinking, like, wow,
I really like the maybe just more the r of
it and the darkness of it then. And I didn't
understand what the movie was about, sure, And I think
that's what's kind of cool about some of these movies
that are coming out. And he's like, that's why I

(03:13:57):
want to see who killed Teddy Burghs. It feels like
it has like that. Sometimes I like putting on a
movie just for like the feel of it and what
it's like, the emotions of it.

Speaker 2 (03:14:07):
And yeah, I think, you know, I think Teddy Bearer
probably falls within that. I think so. I mean, it's
not it's not incredibly deep, but it is. It is
one of these subversive ones that you know, you can
only imagine when it came out, it would have been
one of those pear clutching kind of things where not
not a lot of people would have wanted their kids
to see it. Are teenagers to see it, you know,
because it's that just portrays stuff. So frankly, it just

(03:14:30):
portrays bad adult behavior. But so but like so frankly
like it doesn't try to hide anything. So it's yeah,
it's interesting. But you know, you were talking about melodramas.
It's funny. I think that's inadvertently a really good segue
into the secret release from April Fool's Day. So they
sent out this blank slipcover and some crayons for a movie,
an underseen movie called side Roads, and I can't I

(03:14:52):
can't remember you had not seen it yet, right, No,
I've not seen it. Yeah, so this is it's another
one of these ones like a Champagne and bullets or
like a action USA. Like it's like one of these
vanity project movies. But the funny thing about it is
the main character is dude. He gets out of jail
and like he has the ownership of this casino I
think it is, or maybe yeah, I think it's a casino,

(03:15:14):
but he has but the guy who has the other
half of his share marries his ex wife when he's
in prison, and they just like plot to kill this guy.
And then the whole movie is basically her trying to
kill him or somebody trying to kill him, because it's
a few different people, but it all roads lead back
to her being the mastermind. And for this whole like

(03:15:36):
over two hour runtime, it's basically just her continually like
trying to kill him or masterminding something and then getting
caught and then apologizing and he just like takes her
back and is like, oh, yeah, that makes sense, why
you would do it? Okay, fine, and it just it
just by about the fourth time it happens, you're like, bro, like,

(03:15:57):
she's not good for you, but they just keep going
back to the Well. It's hilarious and I loved it.

Speaker 3 (03:16:03):
Oh man, that's awesome. I was thinking to go back
for a second. Who killed Teddy Bear? The interesting thing
to me about is like, so Minio obviously was super closeted, right, yeah,
and then he's playing the killer in it. There's another
TV movie that it reminds me of just reading the
right up of it. Have you ever seen The Secret
Night Color? That's Robert Reid from The Brady Bunch. He

(03:16:24):
plays like a henpecked executive and also another actor that
was closeted so it's similar like the only way he
can get past his rage at being passed over at
work and growing older and like all these younger people,
like getting past them and not connecting with his kids
is just calling up women and grassing them on the
pon And it's awesome because it's like Robert Reid looking

(03:16:45):
like the Brady Bunch dad totally and like you know,
milk toasting right, and you don't never get to hear
what he says because it's a TV movie.

Speaker 2 (03:16:52):
Oh yeah, but the look.

Speaker 3 (03:16:55):
On these women's face and you know, like he's getting
off to it right, and like he's like kind of
building these Like it's weird because like people that want
to build like a BDSM power relationship but are also
sociopaths want that relationship without the consent. And it's a
very deep subject for like a TV movie. And also
like you know what I mean, Like it seems like

(03:17:15):
they might be so so I'm excited to see who
killed Teddy Bar and see like how close it is
to I'm sure it's way better than you know, a
TV movie with Where Redd, But I kind of love
that movie because it's like how transgressive is that to
have America's dad being a dude who's just like, hey,
he when he's in his office, he closes the door
and tells people he's in meetings, and he's just calling
housewives up while their husbands aren't home and like just

(03:17:36):
harassing him and like and then he's very protective of
them whenever, you know, he's like, oh, Susie, our next
door neighbor had one of those calls, and he goes
over to make sure she's okay. But really he's like
it's like a voyeir experiencing her pain, like a psychic vampires.
It's a pretty cool movie. Like I wish, like I
want more TV movies like Fun City was putting out,

(03:17:56):
you know those TV cities, Yeah, box sets, and like
I think they're like a wealth Like there's a very
close connection to like exploitation and TV movies. They're the
same budgets, a lot of the same people, and like,
I'd like to see more of that stuff happen. I
don't know if there's a way that maybe that's another
sub vinegar syndrome label but likes TV Yeah exactly, Yeah,

(03:18:19):
but that's it.

Speaker 2 (03:18:20):
I mean, Sam, we did it. You know, We're there's
so many movies that came out. You know, we haven't
even touched OCN, But I mean, I'm not gonna go
down that. I mean, there's another twenty one there. The
only thing I want to call out from OCN is
they are I'm a huge fan of I mean a
bunch of the labels. But Film Movement Classics is really

(03:18:43):
on a roll. They just put out a double feature
of Violent Cop and Boiling Point, and I love, I
love Beat Takeshi or tah Kaitano whatever. He's dark. He's
got a great sense of humor, like I don't know,
and I rewatched a Boiling Point and loved it, and
I can't wait to go revisit Violent Cup.

Speaker 3 (03:19:05):
Cool thing about beat Takeshi too is like he crosses
over into so many pop culture things. Oh yeah, because
he had like a he did the New Year's Eve,
so for so many times he had a UFO show
Takeshi's Castle, which aired here is mx C, which there's
a new one that's on, uh that just went on
and it's like it's so cool that like, and he
also managed Big Van Vader, like the they did like

(03:19:27):
an angle where he was feuding with an okie who
was like the big star in New Japan, and he
brought in all these guys and he acted like a
manager and he was like, you know, the Johnny Carson
of exactly the Hollywood. And then he's in Sonitine and
he's like a gay in America. We only know him
for these gangster movies and I'm like, no, he's like
so multifaceted.

Speaker 4 (03:19:45):
I love him, Like, I think he's like the coolest
dude ever.

Speaker 2 (03:19:47):
I agree he's like the way he acts in Boiling
Point at least, it's like some combination of Peter Falk
and then the guy from Ghost Dog. Oh yeah, yeah,
I can't remember his name right now. It's I love
this guy as an actor, but the lead from Ghost Dog,

(03:20:08):
oh man, hold on, that's gonna drive me crazy. I
got to look that way.

Speaker 4 (03:20:11):
We had a magic box in our hand that we
could just force.

Speaker 2 (03:20:17):
Yeah, okay, yeah, for Whitaker. Sorry, it's like it's some
combination of Peter Faulk and Forrest Whittaker, but the Japanese Yeah,
I just got that. You can tell that the brain's
working and he's just got that sly kind of smile
going on.

Speaker 3 (03:20:28):
The only thing in the show, right I was so
excited when he shows up in it, because it's like, oh,
like to anyone in America, like, oh, it's just this
old Japanese guy, and I'm just like wow. Like anytime
he was on the screen, it was like electric for me.
I'm like lucky, you know, and like I didn't care
about anything else.

Speaker 2 (03:20:47):
Yeah. Well, you know, we we had talked before, I mean,
well before I transition. I guess, thank you. I mean
that's a one two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine,
ten ten film run and going in depth, and all
of them, thank you for having the energy to do that,

(03:21:07):
let them want to do it. Twice, we had talked
about giving some people people exposure to what you do
over at BNS and well BNS about movies dot com,
to be specific, and to to kind of give them
a sense of your taste. I mean, I do feel
like they will have that at this point. But I

(03:21:29):
also don't want to leave without talking about The Devils Honey,
because that I've seen it, I feel like we have
to at least talk of that about that movie. So
maybe we can do a shorter version of what we
were planning on doing. But I just I am so
happy to see this movie in four K you know,
I think the one thing I want to say off

(03:21:49):
the top is we were talking earlier about what was
the movie we were talking about whatever one of them.
We were talking about movies that are not sexy despite
displaying a lot of erotic content, and like this movie
is all over the place on that spectrum. I mean,
the opening fifteen minutes is extremely erotic, and then the

(03:22:12):
rest of the film is just I mean not like that.
There's some many nudity throughout and sex throughout, but it
just goes in so many different crazy directions.

Speaker 3 (03:22:22):
It's weird because, like, to me, it's like ful ch
He's this is one of the last movies he made.
You know, this is near the end of his life,
and this is his comeback after you know, a year of.

Speaker 4 (03:22:33):
Having hepatitis and being unable to make movies.

Speaker 3 (03:22:36):
And it's really interesting to me, Like the sex movie
that you would make when you're twenty five is going
to be way different than the movie you make when
you you have a short. It's almost like the characters
in this movie too, right, Like Johnny and the doctor
are on two separate roads of their life. Like Johnny
has a big road ahead of him and like that
allows him to be like I could do whatever I

(03:22:58):
want to women, right, But the doctor feels that same thing.
But he also I think he needs to go through
We talked when We Are a Secret last episode, we
talked about that, like he needs redemption more than Johnny,
Like Johnny doesn't get it because he spoilers to everything
he dies, but the Doctor like through this he and
the girl find within each other. Yes, they don't have

(03:23:21):
a meat cute at all. It's a meat horrible right,
Like she kidnaps him and has him tied up and
as a dog attack him and stuff.

Speaker 4 (03:23:27):
But on the other hand, like they find.

Speaker 3 (03:23:28):
Redemption through this weird relationship and that's not something that
you expect from a sex movie.

Speaker 2 (03:23:34):
No, it's it's like a it's this interesting thing where
it's like an exploration of kink. Yeah, but not in
a kinky way, yeah, or I should say not in
an exploitative way. It's like they're it's just like this
interesting everything Fulchy does. I think he you know, if
you look at like the horror films, he likes to

(03:23:55):
he likes to go big on the kills and have
a lot of blood and like have a lot of
creativity in the kills, and I feel like he's bringing
that same creative energy into the sex scenes. So they're
very imaginative. And the ones that are more romantic and
the ones that are more like based around pain that
there's a lot of imagination in both. And I think

(03:24:16):
they hit the same kind of beats as a horror movie.

Speaker 3 (03:24:19):
So yeah, I said I said that in my early review,
like the first time I watched it, Like he shoots
sex scenes, like he shoots his gore scenes. Yeah. Like
and but also like outside of either the sex scenes
are in this are almost feel like they're making fun
of an erotic thriller, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (03:24:37):
Or like uh, because like you know what happened.

Speaker 3 (03:24:39):
Like the producers of this movie, I'm sure like the
guys who did it, like VINCENTA. Savani did, like Madeline,
which is on the one of the Vinegar Centron box
that's the what do you call it? An America one? Uh?
They did that like look like a cop die like
a man like he made like a lot of movies
that were you know that you could sell overseas so
you they could fit into things. So I'm sure that

(03:25:01):
they said hey, let's do it nine and a half
weeks cash and everybody was at this point, right, Sergey
Martinez did a bunch of them, like all these old
Italian directors did, and like that's syllable. We can saw
that both in Italy's that movie was huge and we
could probably get it to America because with sex scenes
there won't be much talking. But then you give Fulci
that that assignment and he's like, I know what the

(03:25:24):
movie I want to make.

Speaker 4 (03:25:26):
I go cut someone's eyeball out, like you know what
I mean? Like that's the But he can't cut somebody's
eyeball out? But what can he do? And you know,
I'm glad we're actually talking.

Speaker 3 (03:25:34):
About this the second time because I was thinking about
this last night and I was like, why is that
scene happened with the nail polish? Like that's not erotic
at all? When like why would someone fix Like I've
seen people fix a scene in their sockings with clear
NOEWT polish, but that girl's using red and then he
rubs it all over her face. I'm like, isuc taking
the piss on himself in that where it's like there's
no gore in this movie?

Speaker 4 (03:25:54):
But I can still have blood.

Speaker 3 (03:25:58):
People.

Speaker 4 (03:25:59):
Yeah, it hit me.

Speaker 3 (03:26:01):
It's one of the shower thoughts I had today, and
I was like, oh, maybe that's it.

Speaker 4 (03:26:05):
But it's also like it also feels like Johnny is like.

Speaker 3 (03:26:09):
He's very sure of himself, like the rock star like
he he we kind of know learned by the end
of the movie that maybe Jessica isn't the only lover
that he has that he's putting through this torture, right,
and his BDS sem is very It's not he's just
doing that. He's a horrible person. He's not a good

(03:26:31):
It's more like the fifty Shades of gray, you know,
Like that's not a good example either, right, you know
what I mean. He's just like a cruel person and
he's getting off on it. And even when she has
organisms like they're not like I don't think she's ever
enjoyed the sex really with him outside of like the
feeling of this is the only way that she can
be close to him, Like it's.

Speaker 4 (03:26:50):
That's her language, Like she wants you know what I mean, Like.

Speaker 3 (03:26:52):
She wants him to be her. I think she wants
a traditional love from him, but she also likes the
idea of like he's this important musician and I'm the
person in his life right, And we learned by the
end why the producer is so short with her and
tells her to get an abortion, to stay and not
to ruin his life. Because I think if we were
to see a different movie, that producer has the same

(03:27:13):
love life with Johnny that she does, Like we see it,
we see it happen in the theater later, Like that's
what cluded into me. It's like because like for an
Italian guy in public to let another guy go down
and like, I don't boy, that's you know, that's super transgressive,
and like to force a woman to watch it, And
like him playing with gender roles like he's he's obviously
out to shock her and out to debase her through

(03:27:33):
this act and also debase the producer. So that's what
gives me this theory versus like the doctor is almost
feels like he's play acting at being rough with girls,
like and like when he's doing it with the prostitute,
like he can't even finish, and like even when his
wife asks him, like to treat her like she wants that,
I think not for connection, but just like that's what

(03:27:55):
her needs are and to him, he has like that
weird Madonna horror complex, like he needs someone that unlocks
all of it and lets him know that this is okay.
And also I don't know, he's feels blocked up, like
he's he feels like I think he's on that bottom
part of the hill of getting older where he's like,
you know what's left other than me retiring and then
dying two or three years after that after all the

(03:28:16):
hard work I put into it, I don't connect with
my wife. I've been with her all these years. And
then to go back to that point you made like
you're like this movie is a sex movie that's not sexy.

Speaker 4 (03:28:25):
Both women in this movie are or just like kring
Clary is like she was.

Speaker 3 (03:28:30):
A super Bowl she was a model before this. You know,
she's in James Bond Girl. She's in Moon right there. Ye, yeah,
she's in the story of Oh, Like she's a sex
symbol in Italy and like super gorgeous. And it's like,
but neither of them are outside of the first scenes,
like Bianca marcelichisn't presented that either, Like she's like almost
like and maybe it's the eightiessm of it, like there's

(03:28:51):
a lot of bad fashion in this too, and bad
hair and like weird Cosby sweaters, but I kind of
like that about it and it's all.

Speaker 4 (03:28:57):
But on the other hand, like, wow, it's not you.

Speaker 3 (03:29:02):
I've seen like these erotic Throwers or Cinemax after Dark
movies that are just inept that they're trying to be
a sex movie, and they're not. This is actually a
movie that plays with what you want a sex movie
to be and holds it back from you. Is almost
having a master.

Speaker 4 (03:29:16):
Slave relationship with you.

Speaker 3 (03:29:17):
It's not giving you what you want, and it's it's
like holding that back.

Speaker 4 (03:29:21):
And that's ULTI being a smart filmmaker.

Speaker 2 (03:29:24):
Yeah, it immediately, I mean, at least for me, it
immediately made me start to wonder kind of what the
movie was about, because it clearly wasn't just like like
like a skin of Max movie. There's something going on here,
and I don't know, I'm not going to say that
necessarily something he's trying to say, but I do think

(03:29:45):
he's making a deeper movie here, and like I do
think that the fact that those two go through, I mean,
there's no question that the doctor in this case, I mean,
the whole thing is that while her boyfriend eyes and
he kind of hurts his head and he goes into
the operating room and the doctor who's super distracted, she

(03:30:07):
feels that he doesn't it's not like she He kind
of kills the boyfriend and because of that, she kidnaps
him and basically puts him through hell. Right, that's kind
of this is like the premise of how the film
gets going. And she really does, like she burns him
with wax, like you said, there's dogs on him, Like like,
she really does put him through hell. But by the

(03:30:28):
end of it, they're like cuddling and he's like resettling
reciting poetry to her, and you're like, wait a minute.
But the transition it never felt unnatural, Like I mean,
it's a crazy idea, but you kind of see the
way that they're bonding through it's almost like they're both
working through their trauma like in their own ways. And

(03:30:51):
I don't know, I mean, it's just it's it's well made,
Like the movie is awesome in it. If you're just
there for sleeves, like it has a lot of it,
you might be a little disappoint it in the sense
that it's not like a rus Meyer movie, it's not
like fun.

Speaker 3 (03:31:03):
Yeah, And also it's like the more she's Also I
think both of the doctor and her are on this
journey of realizing that the relationships they are and they've
settled for them, and they've like like a lot of
times when you're it's gonna get deep, but go with me.
When you're in a bad relationship, you invent the things

(03:31:27):
that are missing and you like make excuses for them, right,
And I think both of them have done that, maybe
more on Jessica's part, because like when she's looking looking
back on these old photos of Johnny and watching these
old videos and hearing, you know, his jazz music in
her head, like in all these videos, he's horrible to her,
Like if you watch them objectively outside of her head,

(03:31:48):
he's like brutal to her and like and she's just
crying and like she doesn't. It takes over a long
time to realize that she's probably better off without it,
and maybe the doctor did her a favor. But she's
claiming to this like, well, he is my person, right,
but have you invented him as your person? And that
person that you've invented doesn't exist because this was a
problem that I had a lot in my youth where

(03:32:09):
it's like, oh, this person's right for me because maybe
ten percent of what I needed from them, my god,
and I invented the other ninety versus like as bad
as this relationship starts off obviously like it's very beautiful
and very brutal, but like on the other like she
demasculates him to the point that he pisses his pants.
You know, she's like, uh, she's it's just wild, like

(03:32:34):
all this stuff, and you know, she like even when
he tries to reach out to her, he put like
you know, she gives him mouth to mouth and saves him,
do you know what I mean? And then like she
starts looking at his face like she did to Johnny,
and she says, I hate you and I'm going to
kill you. Even every time he keeps coming back and
trying to get her. He tells her she's an amazing
girl and you're beautiful. She's like, I'm still gonna kill you, right,

(03:32:55):
and I'm gonna make you eat dog.

Speaker 4 (03:32:56):
Food, you know what I mean. And it's like, but
yet he still keeps coming back.

Speaker 3 (03:33:00):
Even in that scene where like for I think we
talked about again the last one and the throw an
Italian man of that era.

Speaker 4 (03:33:06):
For him to want to go down on her as.

Speaker 3 (03:33:08):
Like a big deal, right, Like she like bloodies his
face and keeps smashing his face into her stomach and
it's like wow, it's like and then she dumps that
candle on and says, my name is Fever. You can
call me Jessica. And I'm like, oh, we're watching a
Lucia Fulci movie. Like you know at that point, You're like,
we're definitely watching that's dialogue. But like it's just so

(03:33:28):
wild because like by the once we get that revelation
that you know, Jessica had to watch her boyfriend be
with a guy and how that ruined her. And like
finally the doctor like when they make love, like and
like you said, like he reads poetry to her, and
then they've both like made it through this crucible and

(03:33:48):
like I'd like to think again, I'm a romantic, but
I'd like to think that they've fixed each other, and
you they're both going to go off to live better
and more f fertilizer. Maybe they've found that with each other,
Like maybe they've fixed the broken things in each other.
And that's a big concept for what should be nine
and a half weeks, Like we're don't have any The
food eating scene in this is not off someone's body.
It's a man being forced to eat dog food.

Speaker 2 (03:34:11):
You know, I'm just thinking of you know, I just
had an idea again you were talking about the second
time going through this discussion. There's a lot of similarities
in this actually to the way that sexuality is portrayed
in Beatrier Sensey or The Conspiracy of Torture, which is
like one of his earlier movies. So I guess you

(03:34:31):
can if you really go, if you think about it,
I guess you can kind of find traces of this
where he's kind of playing with this idea of like
what's of trauma and like history and relationships and how
they can influence people and shape them. So I guess
it's not totally out of the blue for him, but
this one does feel more more direct.

Speaker 3 (03:34:52):
I guess he's also not somebody that we think about
where like, yeah, he's had beautiful women in his movies,
but like you have to really think of, like, well, okay,
I will say the way in like a lizard and
a woman's skin, the way the way that he shot
like there's that scene where like there's a lot of

(03:35:13):
scenes in that that are very gorgeous women, but like, uh,
don't torture Duckling's the one I'm thinking of where we
see Barbara Bouschet like in bed like that teenager, like
the two times that he worked with Buche like that,
and then one on top of the other perversion story
like he has like Marissa mel in that movie. Like

(03:35:34):
those are two of like the unassailable like Italian acturals
queens to me right, like they can't help but be sexy,
but like they're also both presented as like super dangerous
in those movies. Like when we see like Marissa Melan
one on top of the other, like in that motorcycle scene,
like it's very much like vertigo, Like you know, oh,
this is the woman I was with before, But when
you see her in that scene, you're like wow, Like

(03:35:55):
he's really capturing a gorgeous woman, and you never really
see that in any other ful Chies movies, Like it's
more about beautiful women are in it, but we're more
focused on the story and not the sex. Like I
can't think of any of his other movies where sex
is like a super Focus, at least of the really
popular ones. I know the Eroto system, you know, as
someone that made and my sister in aw like somebody

(03:36:17):
that made a lot of movies in Italy was gonna
hit different genres. But it's not like I can point
to Bob was like four times that night. It's like
that's his sex comedy movie. Yeah, I mean Martino has
like twelve of them or fifteen, but like not as
that's not anything where we can point to like that.
So it's like strange that they're like, I guess his
name's gonna sell it. But also this genre is so

(03:36:40):
weird to his name that like, when I think of
a full Scie movie, I want to see weird, love
crafty and odd narratives. But then we're getting that though
if you think about it, like we're getting it without
what gore. We're getting it with sex as the central conceit.
So I think that's kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (03:36:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:36:57):
Also, Dicky from a House by the cemeteries in this
it's the same. I am convinced this is a shared
universe movie. This is what Dicky did before and when
he dies, he goes to the house by cemetery from
the beyond. I mean, he goes to the beyond after
he gets buried on the beach here. That's how how
he shows it up. She shows up. He's the guy
that sells that mystical bracelet.

Speaker 3 (03:37:18):
Yea, And yeah, it's it's there's a movie really about
loss and then finding someone and like sometimes like you know,
it's that bullshit thing, right the people I tell you
you're going to find the right person when you're not looking,
you know, And it's like.

Speaker 2 (03:37:34):
This is a funny example of.

Speaker 3 (03:37:36):
This is a wild example of it. Like, Grandpa, tell
me how you met Grandma. Well, I killed her boyfriend,
who was a bisexual saxophone play He used to play
a saxophone directly in her vagina. And then and then
he died, and she kidnapped me and tried to kill me,
but we fell in love and then I read poetry
to her in bed and we've been together ever since. Grandpa,
don't tell me anything about your childhood again, do you

(03:37:57):
know what I mean? It's such a weird it upset
by Alka Marsalage because she was like she felt that
Fulci went too far in this movie.

Speaker 4 (03:38:06):
And that's weird to me because I really don't think
the sex is too.

Speaker 3 (03:38:10):
Far in it maybe and you know again like you know,
I'm not approved, but like almost any of the true
like sex scenes in it, like the saxophone scene, are
almost so ridiculous that you're like, it's not really sexy.
Like even when beautiful women are presented in moments like
crien Clary is unfulfilled throughout this movie. So there's never

(03:38:32):
a movie where you see her and you're like, oh yeah,
unless you're like watching these like snippets that we talked before,
like snippet films where you're just like you're that you're
thirteen year old in the middle of puberty, where it's
like just any image of a woman, like a serious
catalog is enough, right, but not for older people like
this is. But I think that's what's cool about it.
It's like I like movies that start an expectation and

(03:38:54):
you get and as you're watching, like, oh, that's not
what this movie is about at all, Like this is
like this sounds like weird, but is it a romantic movie?
For Fulchi it is like for somebody that like in
his most well known movies, his happiest ending, he said,
was The Beyond, where they fade off into nothingness, and
that's a victory versus like.

Speaker 4 (03:39:13):
How we're being trapped into heaven they don't want to
be in.

Speaker 3 (03:39:18):
This is a happy ending for him.

Speaker 2 (03:39:19):
It is, it is. I think it is a romantic movie,
which is just crazy compared to how it starts. But
there's a tenderness there that is very human.

Speaker 3 (03:39:27):
So and also like if these characters met without just
on the street, right, they wouldn't have the same relationship
as positive a relationship in a weird way, without the
shared trauma of death and getting past these feelings and.

Speaker 4 (03:39:45):
Destroying powers.

Speaker 3 (03:39:46):
God, God, I sound like I'm trying off for the
critarian collection for a sex movie. But like that they're
destroying these traditional power structures of Italian men and Italian women.
But she's in charge, and like she emascinates him to
the point where he finally comes from and finds a
tenderness that that's what she needs. He finds what fulfills
her that he could never find in his wife, and
treating his wife like one of his prostitutes would not

(03:40:09):
be fulfilling for him, even his prostitutes aren't fulfilling for him. Yeah,
I think when when he finally gets to lay in
bed and have this like when you get older, Like
it's funny, like you always hear about what you think
of intimacy as just sex, and as you get older,
like the moments where you're just laying with someone afterwards
or just cooking for someone who thinks these are the
true moments of intimacy that are earned versus sex is easy.

(03:40:31):
But okay, that's deep enough. That's a couple of dick
jokes for me to get through the rest.

Speaker 2 (03:40:35):
Of the end. No, no, no, that's the perfect way to
end it. I think, yeah, you've we've done this for
over three hours now, and I think when I was
very I.

Speaker 4 (03:40:44):
Apologize your editing is going to be rough on this one.

Speaker 2 (03:40:46):
I apoize, no, no, no. I I think that people are
getting an idea of why I was very excited to
have you on this show. I think you have a
thoughtfulness behind everything you you know, you say, and you've
just seen a lot and you have just surrounded yourself
with the film and you treat it with respect. And

(03:41:06):
I really love this conversation.

Speaker 3 (03:41:08):
And I love too because you bring up a lot
of films that I have liked, some of my blind spots,
So that's cool to hear, you know, like some of
these other cultures. So it's like we all build our
own personal canon. It's like I think, you know, you
definitely have a different way of thinking about them too.

Speaker 4 (03:41:23):
That's what I love.

Speaker 3 (03:41:24):
Like when I meet someone that can go back and
forth with me on film, like that's really rad, you
know what I mean. It's intimidating, like talking directors that
are always intimidating, or you know, like people that really
know And I'm like, like I thought that Kayla Janie.
I was like, God, like I'm never gonna know as
much as as much as her. But on the other hand,
it's like do I have to, Like that's why I'm

(03:41:46):
the one interviewing her. And it's like it's a constant.
That's what I like.

Speaker 4 (03:41:50):
My dad taught me this.

Speaker 3 (03:41:51):
Like he was a teacher and he was like, you
should learn something new every day. And I feel like
film is the best way for me to do that. Yeah,
and like and it helps me to like look and
I think it helps you in a weird way, get
past prejudices of like even within like the formats that
we're watching in like the like s OV versus, like
you know, budget and like what is cheap? And like

(03:42:12):
it doesn't matter, like John Water said it the best,
like the only sin of a film is if it's boring,
and it's like that's what I'm looking for, so hearing
like what movies like, I'm really intrigued. I want to
I'm looking forward to talking to you more about this
because it's like really cool, like like oh wow, that
that's the stuff that I'm into in this month and
like why doesn't this work for you? You know what
I mean? And why why did this? But like Bill

(03:42:33):
and I who do the video cast together, we're always like, god,
we should when do we have our Siskel and Ebert moments?

Speaker 4 (03:42:38):
Because we never dose.

Speaker 3 (03:42:39):
We're like very on the same wayway, like we liked
regional horror and like scuzzy stuff, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (03:42:44):
And it's very very do you one.

Speaker 3 (03:42:45):
Of the few movies, like Hell the Living Dead's one
of the few movies we disagree on. And his disagreement's
more just like I just don't like it, like it's
do you know what I mean? Because he watched it
once and yeah, oh dude, I love it because here's
what I'm about. It is like they told Bruna Mattee,
Like they said, we want just our own version of

(03:43:07):
Donova Dead, but can you make it more fun? Sept
movie is a downer, and he somehow made a movie
that's even bigger downer. At the beginning of it is
definitely done. It's like that police action like oh yeah,
like cool, and at some point he totally loses the
plot for it. We're like whole and I know, like
from the Brad Carter book and I taught the interview
with Brad that Severn put out. It was you know,

(03:43:27):
they intended it to be an even bigger movie because
Forgosso and Drudie had never really made a script before,
so their script was like a billion dollar script, right,
it could never be filmed. And it's like, but I
love what came out of it. And it's like it
ends like it's such speaking of downer endings, like the
main character gets killed, like there's nothing positive at the
end of it, and it's like all those guys are

(03:43:48):
so cynical and that like Commando Squad, what are they
even doing? Like they're not gonna be able to stop
these zombies. They're just going to these hope centers and
just killing everybody in them, and like that one guy
gets broken and he's singing, singing the rain, like and
you have this really intense scary scenea that grandmother coming
out of the rocky chair, like it's fucking rad, Like
I love it. Bruno's my hero great because like only

(03:44:09):
he can take movies that are total shit right, and
like like his assignment it's like Foolje's asignment on on
the Devil's Honey. It's like, we need you to make
like a predator movie in Robo War. But he's like,
I'm gonna make my own thing, like I have my
own ideas, Like Shocking Dark definitely does that, and it's
like and it's like, but I love that. It's why

(03:44:29):
I like the Black and Manual movies so much, because again,
like the motto is making something You're like, yeah, I
should cool, it's an Emmanuel movie and I saw the
first you know, the original ones, and this will be
good jerking material and it's like, no, what if it's
about a snuff movie?

Speaker 4 (03:44:43):
And what you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (03:44:44):
Or what if right in the beginning, I love In
a Manual and the Cannibals, where how does she get
information about there's a cannibal. Well, she makes out with
a nurse and then she makes up the cannibal. How
do we know she's a cannibal? She eats someone's breast
and it's like, wow, Joe, you're crazy, and like like,
aren't these supposed to be travelog movies about a girl
just exploring her sexuality in the world. And he's like

(03:45:05):
that's not enough, Like these should be like there's some
weird message movie in them too. But also and also,
like from David Gregory mentioned this to me, it was
like all the women that worked with the Motto loved him,
like he was like really encouraging to them. Like he
had a lot of women behind the scenes working with him,
and he was very fair to them.

Speaker 4 (03:45:23):
For a guy that made adult movies for.

Speaker 3 (03:45:25):
The rest of his life, they probably didn't want to
make a lot of times, but you know, you got
to make money. He was a very giving person and
everybody loved him. And it's like that means more like
knowing that makes me happy, and like when I watch
his movies or Mattae's movies, I'm like, yeah, like there's
like a weird kinship, Like I feel like that about
them and Franco and and like a lot of these
like genre directors where it's like god, I feel it's

(03:45:49):
like closeness and love of them. So I'm glad that
that comes through, like in my enthusiasm for these movies,
Like I call it movie drugs, Like it's like how
I'm like chasing this dragon of like this high, Like
well I ever get the same high like the first
time I saw Ghost House or uh, the first time
I saw a City of the Living Dead fool cheese
like movie, Like I saw it on VHS and it

(03:46:11):
was so this tape was battered, like you could barely
see the stuff at the end when they were underground.
But I was like, man, like somebody throws up their
own guts in this movie, and like you know, Giovanni
Ridish gets his head drilled out and like, oh that's
Michelle SWABBI like you know he's in this too, like
and like all that's the movie where we learned how

(03:46:31):
to film stuff, and it's like all this stuff comes
together and it's like wow, like what an experience.

Speaker 4 (03:46:36):
Like that's like, how am I going to get that
same feeling out.

Speaker 3 (03:46:39):
Of like the conjuring or which is not a bad movie,
but it's a different movie. Like I'm gonna get it's
like drinking a light beer versus black Tar Heroin exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:46:52):
I think I would love to end the episode on
black Tar Heroin.

Speaker 3 (03:46:56):
Yeah, that's what vinegar syndrome is. Like they're giving you
like they know their audience right, and they're like they
got to supply and you were ready. Like I know
you're gonna be the same way like feb first, eleven
fifty seven. You're gonna be like you know, Easter time,
You're gonna be like sitting there waiting watching the clock tick.

Speaker 4 (03:47:14):
What are the what are those three what are those
three movies?

Speaker 3 (03:47:17):
Man?

Speaker 4 (03:47:17):
And you know what?

Speaker 3 (03:47:18):
Like I'll come up and yell and tell my wife,
like when stuff comes out. I remember when, like when
Spookies came out, Like I screamed, she was already sleep.
I ran upstairs and I jumping up down telling her.
She's like yeah, okay, cool. And I'm like this beautiful
woman that I'm lucky to have, Like why am I
putting her through this?

Speaker 4 (03:47:32):
Like you know what I mean, Like why does she
give it?

Speaker 3 (03:47:34):
She doesn't give a shit. I'm getting my ape copy
of Spookies, but like to us. It's like, yeah, this
is a big thing, Like this is like a thing
that makes life worth living in a way, Like it's
like it's an excitement and like a waiting and like
in black to Heroin, it's it's a good drug, you
know what I mean, Like it keeps us coming back
and we and versus like we don't have any of

(03:47:54):
the bad effects of drug.

Speaker 2 (03:47:56):
Well it's good. Less money in the bank account.

Speaker 3 (03:47:59):
But oh, I know.

Speaker 2 (03:48:00):
But if people want to hear more of you, the
best place to send them is www dot b and
s aboutmovies dot com, right, yeah, it is, yeah, and
they can find your video cast and your podcasts and
your zine and your everything.

Speaker 3 (03:48:16):
Yeah. And it's like I figured that was the best play.
Someone said to me last week. Oh god, I'll tell
you more about this off there. But I had a
disagreement with someone who used to write for the site,
and they're like you you are such a bad writer.
They said that you don't even stand behind your own
work and use your real name, and what is being
us about movies anyway?

Speaker 4 (03:48:34):
And I'm like, Okay, you don't understand advertising and branding.

Speaker 3 (03:48:37):
Like I like the name because it's back in Sam
like it's like my wife and me and it's like
our collection and the movies we love, and like I'll
have her on the show sometimes too, and she's really
funny when she's on. I wish she would do it
more because she's hilarious, but like she doesn't like doing it.
Someone said once like her voice sounds like a little
kid's voice and she's never wanted to do a podcast
since and I love her voice, Like that's one of
my favorite.

Speaker 4 (03:48:57):
Things about her and like that.

Speaker 3 (03:48:58):
But that's to me, like I MBAs about movies, Like
so I've tried to build a brand and like everything's
saying it's like the podcast says it, you know, all
the different stuff, and it's like to me, like getting
a chance to talk about these movies with you and
doing the show, like it says to me like, oh,
like this was all worth it, Like the hours where
I'm up all night writing about you know, like after this,
I'm gonna write about the movies Night Eyes and Animal

(03:49:20):
and Stinks Rip tomorrow, Like I'm gonna put this scarlely
effort into Night Eyes after this, and like, uh, like
it's worth it because then we get to talk about
this and hopefully you've listened to the show and you listener.
Now I'm talking to you like it's like, uh, that's
really cool. So yeah, come if you want to there's
definitely more on the site, or if you never want
to hear me talk again.

Speaker 4 (03:49:39):
Like, god, this was like nine hours of dudes talking.

Speaker 3 (03:49:41):
About uh Malibou High and uh Punk Vacation. Yeah. I
love that that's the name of your show because like
that's a favorite Vinegar Syndrome movie, because it's another one
of those like, oh, this is a movie you're expecting
and this is the one you get and you can
see the Yeah, you can see the people that are
upset about it versus me. I'm like, yeah, like I'd
love to go to that time like movie ship dude,

(03:50:02):
I love him.

Speaker 2 (03:50:06):
That's awesome. Well, uh yes, Sam, thank you. I mean
this has been awesome and you've you know, I've been
listening to you for a while, but I'm going to
continue and I hope to have you on again to
go through another month's releases. So thanks so much for
making Thanks so much for doing this. Oh, thank you
so much for having me awesome all right, thank you soon.

Speaker 1 (03:51:12):
Thank you for listening to hear more shows from the
Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast network. Please select the link in
the description.

Speaker 6 (03:51:27):
I am Adam Lundy, the host of the Radiance Films Podcast,
a show that is dedicated to all things Radiance Films.
Join me every month as myself and some varied and
interesting guests sit down to discuss the latest releases and
announcements from Radiance Films, now part of Someone's Favorite Productions
Podcast Network.

Speaker 8 (03:51:50):
Hello, my name is Kevin Tudor, and I'm one of
the three hosts of Almost Major Film podcast. I sect
in many major indie studios and the films they release.
Every week, myself, Charlie Nash, and Brighton Doyle discuss overlooked,
forgotten or bona fide classic indie films via studio specific
mini series. We've previously covered numerous films from artists and Entertainment,

(03:52:11):
Lionsgate films and New Line Cinema titles, including The Blair
Witch Project, American Psycho, Dogville, But I'm a Cheerleader, Saw
Recording for a Dream, and Ringmaster you know, the Jerry
Springer film. Anyways, we have a fun time every week
and we hope you will join us. Subscribe to Almost
Major Wherever you get your podcasts now proudly a part
of the Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network.

Speaker 3 (03:52:35):
Hello,

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Episode 11 - The Black Tar Heroin Effect

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 11 - The Black Tar Heroin Effect