Episode 14 - March Announcements and Eugenio Ercolani - Punk Vacation: An Unofficial Vinegar Syndrome Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Hello y'all, Happy March, Welcome back to Punk Vacation and
Unofficial Vineger Syndrome Podcast. We are all the way to
episode fourteen now, so thank y'all everybody who's made it
this far for some reason this is your first time listening.
I always like to start by saying, you know, the
purpose of this podcast for me is to really celebrate

(01:06):
unfettered creativity, which I think Vinegar Syndrome does a great
job at. I'd love to use this platform to bring
awareness and context to movies of any budget, from anywhere
in the world and during any time in history. I've
been personally invested since about Black Friday of twenty twenty
one as a subscriber and on a different podcast. I've

(01:27):
interviewed mostly most of the Ocon partner labels and really
just noticed that Vinegar Syndrome was becoming kind of an
industry powerhouse and thought this podcast would be a fun
way to track and really see how high they can go.
I try to bring a guest in every time, and
I'm so thrilled that Eugenio or Kolani agreed to join today.

(01:51):
So Eugenio. Before I introduce you further, just hi, and
thank you so much for coming in.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Hello, thank you for having me. It's great to be here.
Just be patient with me because I am recovering from
a bit of a sniffle, so I might sometimes sneeze
or cough, but but yes, my yeah, thank you so

(02:17):
much for having me. It's great to be here.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Of course, I know you as a film historian, as
a writer, as a special features producer. I think you're
credited as an ad in some cases as well. You
are in and around film in a huge way, and
so it means a lot to have you on the
show here today and speak not only about the new
releases that were announced a few hours ago, but also

(02:42):
just Italian cinema and kind of whatever direction we take.
So very very happy you're here.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yes, yes, thank you, yeah kind of cinema. Cinema is
an all encompassing and it is for so many people,
and I would imagine for your elf as well. It's
an all encompassing passion. It really, it's it's sort of
a wonderful, wonderful disease, I think, I think to fore

(03:13):
put it that way. And yeah, so I've been blessed
with the opportunity of working in and around films for
quite a few years now. So yeah, yeah, a lot
to talk about, a lot of ground to cover. So
I'm yeah, sniffles aside, I am, I'm all geared up

(03:36):
for this.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
That's wonderful, and we'll jump right into the new releases.
But I did want to just kind of set the stage.
I know that you've gone over your history a little
bit with like The Disconnected and a few different podcasts.
By the way, there's a really great interview with Ryan
over there. If anybody doesn't hasn't seen it yet or
heard it yet. But and I know you've been on
several podcasts talking about yourself. But just as like a

(03:59):
quick back, you know, what is it that turns you
from somebody who loved movies into somebody that decided to
really kind of make this a big part of your life,
as as somebody who's chronicling and becoming like a librarian
of cinema history.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Well, I mean, cinema has always been an important element
in my life since pretty much, I mean since I
had conscious thoughts. I guess it, you know, I think
it's like that for a lot of people. Where you

(04:35):
know you want when you're a small child, you want
to be whatever you're watching. So you wanted to be
a vet or I wanted to be an egyptologist, architect
or archaeologist or whatever on the basis of what I
was what I was watching. And then I finally kind
of clocked on to the fact that it was the

(04:55):
films that were directing me as a child, and and
then yeah, once I figured that out, you know, uh
kind of films really stuck the whole process of making
films and and the history behind it. And I mean,
one I think who knows a little bit about my

(05:19):
family history usually assumes that my passion for films started
thanks to my grandfather, who was who was a director
mostly of Westerns, although he did braunch out and and
worked on a number of within a number of different genres.

(05:43):
But ever, anybody out there that's a fan of spaghetti
western has probably heard of films like Death Rides a
Horse with Lee Van Cleeve or The Bad Up with
Olsen Wells and Thomas Millian, also known as Blood and Guns.
My mother was a was a script supervisor up until
the very late nineteen seventies, working with a number of

(06:08):
different directors, Fernando di Leo and Bana Mme and the
Reflected for Frankenstein and Blood for Dracula, the two Andy Warhol,
Paul Morrissey Catlo Ponti projects. But actually it did start
thanking to my mother, but not really her profession that

(06:30):
she had abandoned by the time I was born. But
you know, my mother used to disapproved of Italian television
or television in general, and would kind of experimented and
showed me Charlie Chaplin short films and some of his

(06:50):
speech length films, and I just adored them. For me,
I associated black and white to cinema, I mean cinema
modern cinema even wasn't black and white. I only later
kind of, you know, clocked the fact that actually no
one color was was the kind of dominant, dominant way

(07:12):
of watching films. So yeah, that it all started with that,
and then films really accompany me through very dark periods
in my teen years. I suffered up depression and and
kind of had a very wild beginning of adulthood, and
kind of films have always been there, kind of creating

(07:32):
some sort of exoskeleton, you know, structure around me. They
were you know, not only a way of escaping, because
we always you know, this is a cliche of saying,
you know, films, which are which is true? Films are
you know, an escape route? Are you know, a window
out of our world? But it's all so many other

(07:53):
different things.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's also.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
The way we interpret the world. It's it's way of
under standing our surrounding. It's and it's as much as
it's very solitary because you're silent, you're just you're in
a film, but it also brings people together. It's a
it's a collective art and both making it and watching

(08:18):
it in many ways. And also it's also a window,
you know, a window into into ourselves depending on what
you're what you watch, and even the crummiest, you know,
piece of ship, little film, you know, we're still kind
of looking looking for us within the folds, you know.

(08:42):
And so it's it's always trying to connect with with
something else, and you know, and it inevitably becomes a
reflection on ourselves, so you know, and obviously it's if
you want it to be, it's a gateway to so
many different other art forms as well. You know, I've
never I've never really believed in in cinephiles that only

(09:07):
are interested in film. I mean it's fine, but I
mean it's not that I don't believe in them. I
just feel maybe that sometimes they're lacking, you know, the potential,
the full experience, you know, because you know, you literature
and art informed so much film that you know, you

(09:27):
you you get so many different layers if you if
you approach cinemas, you know, part of a mosaic. But yeah,
so so film. I started that. I dropped out a
high school dropout. I then went to the London Film
Academy later on, but I tried to get into films.

(09:48):
Initially I did a number of different odd jobs to survive,
but eventually I managed to become an ad in first
in London and then and then in Rome. I worked
and films for quite a few years, a ding second
units on TV shows, and I directed a few short films,

(10:10):
and in the meantime I was also writing for some magazines.
I mean, anybody out there, if they've heard of that's
used to be, it's kind of died out now, really,
I mean, it exists, but it's in a form that
is that is very very different from what it was.

(10:33):
It's now only like I think it's comes out every
two months or three months, and it's only I'm printed
on demand. But it used to be back in the day,
really the mecca for Italian genre cinema and some important
I'm removing myself from this equation, but some very big

(10:55):
names were writing for that magazine and I was lucky
enough to start writing for When was you know, had
a certain clout, had a gravitas around it, and it
was yeah, but it was more of a side gig.
I wrote for another bunch of magazines in Italy, film

(11:15):
magazines obviously, and then I kind of segued into special features.
But again it started out as as a third gig.
I was making a living ading and I started for
some very small German companies, labels that now a couple
don't even exist anymore. And I was, you know, it

(11:38):
was just me with a camera, very much improvising. You know,
I'm not a camera operator. I'm not a technical person
the strictest sense of the word, but you know, I
kind of improvised. And then the working kept coming in
and eighty eight films an arrow, and then later on

(12:01):
I know this entertainment and we could vision and fractured
visions and cauldron and you know, and eventually been aga
syndrome and occasionally severing and you know, all these different labels,
and then you know, I started building a team and
outsourcing and it became a much bigger operation and it's
now all encompassing and it's it basically is the nucleus

(12:24):
of my professional life. So it was all I mean,
it's wasn't smooth sailing. I mean, not that I've I've
reached my goal. I think that, you know, I want
to go back into films as well, and I you know,
there are so many other different things hopefully in my future.
But yeah, it hasn't been easy sailing. I mean it's

(12:45):
it's it's been a very bumpy ride, but at times heartbreaking,
at times fun.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
That's yeah. I mean I think that's unfortunately that can
be true for a lot of things in life. But
that's a fantastic summer and in a way of catching
us up to where you are now, thank you for that.
I love. Even in the story, I can hear your passion,
you know, I was. I had a few notes that
I wanted to ask you about. But since you brought

(13:13):
up Fernando de Lao. I feel like I should ask
you now if you you know to him, to me,
excuse me, he's like a personal hero. Let me just
say it that way. I think I don't know about
his you know how he's like in person, but every
single movie I've ever seen from him just oozes energy

(13:34):
and like like a tone or like a vibe that
I love. And I can tell he loves filmmaking, and
you know, I think he writes with a lot of
excitement and his music is exciting. I just kind of
obsessed with him. So I had that as soon as
I saw that. As I was doing a little bit
of research in your background, I took a note down

(13:55):
to ask about that. Did you ever, you know, have
any connection with him at or did you ever hear
any stories about him how he was to actually work
with or anything in that way. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah, So personally I met Fernando. I think it was
a couple of years going before his demise. He was
he was a very poised gentleman. He was. He was
a very intelligent and very cultured. His his father was

(14:29):
was a lawyer. Seeing sort of his father at work
and even you know, hardened criminals coming and going from
his father's office. People that you know, his father would defend,
informed a lot of what would later come in his
crime films. You know, the way of speaking and in

(14:49):
that sense, you know, is very anthropologic, anthropological in the
way he fleshes out his you the criminal media in
this film, so you know, the accents, the way they move,
the way they dress, it's all very tied to the

(15:11):
regions they come from. There's a very there's great attention
to detail, which brings me also to this consideration. I
consider Fernando a better writer than he is a director.
I think grips are I imagine some some of the

(15:33):
of the nuances get lost in in translation. But there
is a certain energy to his dialogue. You know, his
dialogue is very precise. It's sometimes it can it can
be it can be so precise that it seems unreal.

(15:56):
I mean, I remember showing a friend to who is
not Who's not Italian Caliberine probably is most well, definitely
one of his most accomplished films, if not his most accomplished,
And they said, they said that they loved it, but

(16:16):
they also said, well, I found the madiot of character
to be very over the top. Was he being over
the top, and I was like, from an outside perspective,
yes he was over the top, but actually that kind
of Italian from that era, from that region is spot on,

(16:37):
and people can point to that character and go, I
know somebody like that, you know, or I've seen somebody
like that. It's so his films are written, they're very compact,
they're very tight, and he had brilliant ideas, very innovative,
sometimes very avant garde. When it comes to the directing,

(17:00):
there is something I know, this sounds like, you know,
an absurd kind of parallel, but he reminds me a
little bit of West Craven, where the ideas sometimes are
superior to the execution.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Oh interesting, you know, it's.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
I think if you look, for example, take Calibanine. Calibanine
has moments of absolute brilliance. You know that the camera work,
the way he shoots the city and everything. But then
and yes, it is sometimes tied to budget, it is
sometimes tied to you know, logistical restraints. But at the

(17:42):
same time, there is a level of just not taking
you know, taking the execution the next level. So say,
for example, the scene in which Felipe le lrois in
the role he plays Keino. Yes, you go to the
villa of the American placed by Lanel Standard and basically commits,

(18:03):
you know, the massacre that freeze Uaza played by Gastonymus Scheme.
That villa is. First of all, this is he's this,
this American has been you know, presented to us as
this extremely powerful, you know, all knowing sort of presence,
you know, somebody who who who has the city in

(18:25):
his hands. And then it's this tiny little villa in
the suburbs and you kind of go, wait, it's obviously
a villa that you know has been rented for you know,
a day or two. All the windows are shot, you know,
there's no sense of life, and there are a bunch
of mobsters in full daylight probably it looks like midday

(18:46):
dancing around the villa. And it's like, wait a second, why, why,
why is all this happen? This makes no sense, you know,
the where is that care that we've seen throughout the film.
But Fernando, you know, my mother, she didn't work on
that particular film that she made three films and a

(19:06):
half with Fernando de Leo, I say in a half
because she she left for personal reasons, nothing to do
with the film or with Fernando. But she left madness
aka ba Sagro she did. She she said, you know,

(19:27):
DeLeo was a very bay precise, he knew what he wanted.
But he he would sometimes you know, get annoyed and
and you know, for some reason, accelerate, accelerate the process.
You know, would not go and do another take, even

(19:49):
if you know everybody was suggesting you should. He was
more worried with you know, ending ending the day on
the on time. You know, by four o'clock everybody was,
it was off the set and and back going, you know,
proceeding to go back to their respective houses. So but yeah,

(20:10):
there is despite delayls, sometimes lack of care and certain
details tied to the actual filmmaking process. I agree with you,
there is in his best films there is a sense
of momentum. There's a certain aggression which is very pleasurable
to to witness. But I think, yeah, ultimately he he

(20:32):
was a greater writer than he was he was a director.
And after all, he began as a writer, exactly as
a screenwriter.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
He takes credit from spaghetti westerns, and I think he's
he was he said, it was, yeah, no, it's his
interviews are fascinating because his intelligence certainly comes through the
last point on the layo or last kind of question
sort of thing. But you know, I ultimately in my
mind the way as I dig into more of the

(21:03):
way he works, and like as I hear you talk
about him, and also just you know a lot of
his Rerero has done a pretty good job in the
last ten years of making sure his films are coming
out and now different companies. But you know, it seems
to be that he reminds me a lot of almost
like a John Carpenter in the way that he's more
about like, if you give him a budget, it's always

(21:24):
coming in on budget. He's very much like a workman
kind of in the way he goes about it. It's
just you know, we're gonna go in, we're gonna get
the shot, We're going to make his own music or
you know whatever. Like it's very much feels like he
owns the whole process and he's very efficient with it.
So in my mind I kind of compare him to
Carpenter a little bit as far as the way they work.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, absolutely, I can. I can definitely see the similarities.
I mean, I think de Leo. He found a community
or he found his niche within the production company down
that pretty much produced you know, the bulk of his

(22:08):
filmography as a director.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
And I think.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
He he was bigger than the company that was producing
his films. He could have gone and found bigger production companies.
He could have and he got offers, but they've got offers,
but he preferred being you know, a big fish in
a small pond. I see kind of you know, Danta

(22:34):
left complete creative freedom to you know, he could do
whatever he wanted pretty much within the restraints of the
budget obviously, but you know, he could have free hand
and I feel that probably became a crystal cage for
him in some ways. And yeah, I mean his films

(22:58):
were i'd say between nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy
five seventy six, his budgets were decent. You know. Actually,
I will take advantage of you know, talking about allowed
to say something, which is, you know, a lot of

(23:18):
these directors and and you know, consequentially a lot of
film historians, Italian and foreign, you know, they've they've all
of them sort of created this metos which is which

(23:40):
is made of a lot of actually actually inaccuracies or
fallacies like for example, the two main ones I want
to point out is budget. Like a lot of these
these a lot of people say, oh, these films were
made on shoe string budgets or the small budgets. Actually
that's not into true. I mean, if you take out

(24:01):
the documents these most of these films Del Gastallai, they
had quite big budgets. And you know, anybody who's worked
on film notes what over the line means they have
a lot of over the line expenses, actors that are
very expensive caliber nine. You know that the over the
line on that film is is pretty massive. I mean,
Gaston Mosquino was huge in Italy, Bill and I'll stand

(24:24):
up for Bladlah and Mario Adolf already a big actor
by that time. So you know, these films were not
as cheap as people think, especially considering how industrious the
film world was, you know, how big, because obviously you know,
the more you're making films, the less you're going to

(24:44):
spend on certain things to make a film. That economy
is exactly so so if you if you you know,
dismantle all the pieces of these films, you actually realize
they're they're they're actually quite expensive. And and the other

(25:06):
thing is, and this has become recently my my mission
in life, which is it's a really petty thing. But
I I just see it repeated over and over again.
So one of the things everybody says is and don't
get me wrong, the directors said as well, some of them,

(25:27):
but it's untrue, is they had no permits for the
for the car chases. That's you know, you hear this
a lot. Oh yeah, you know this was shot on
the streets without any permits. Completely untrue. If you you know,
it's all there in the documents at the National Film
Registry and the National Archive. You put it out, there's

(25:48):
every single piece of document with every permit to shoot
every second of a film that that takes place, you know,
on sidewalks or or in the road. And we're talking
about a time, especially when it comes to crime films
in Italy, in which terrorism was a big deal in Italy.
It was the year so called Years of Lead, and
you know, there were political assassinations and kidnappings. Imagine if

(26:13):
you know, cars were whizzing around or exploding or you know,
or just simply you know, you know, burning red lights
and all that sort of stuff there, and in a
time in which these films were made by the dozens
per year and the police didn't know anything about them,
like they you know, they they didn't catch on that

(26:35):
these films were made, especially in a time in which
you know, the police was pretty much always twenty four
seven on alert because of the political climate at the
time in Italy. So it's completely untrue. And the documents
prove it that all these films had had permits, And
it's just the legend, you know, the metos that gets

(26:57):
built around these films, but actually they're done way more
by the numbers than people realize.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, there's a different conversation I'd love to have with
you one day. Maybe you can come on they live
by film, or maybe we could do it here. But
you know, I think it's I'm fascinated by the different
theatrical distribution in different countries because you know, like if
you look at Japan, I know this has come up
and I was going through Taro Ishi's films with Sam Degan.

(27:26):
I was doing some research into the box office there.
You know, if you could make a movie for a
million and it sold three million, then that was a success, right,
And they might have had a four week run time,
but the movie was still viewed as a success because
it was like this just massive, you know, you always
had to have something new in the theaters or Shaw
Brothers is famous for it, right, you know, Hong Kong,
they were putting just hundreds of movies into the theater

(27:48):
a year, and they were a lot of them were profitable. Still,
so I think there's an interesting thing just looking different countries,
and you know, there's an American bias as I talk
about theater distribution, because we have like a rhythm here, right,
and we count there's a there's a site called box
office Mojo that counts box office stats and they base
it on a twelve week runtime, and a lot of

(28:10):
countries didn't have twelve week runtime. You know, it's much faster.
So anyways, I don't know, I think there's a there's
a fun discussion there. But I like the fact that
DeLeo was able to keep making his movies and I
think for me, he's one of my favorite and I
don't know how he's not. You know, if you look
at somebody like Fellini, the emotions that he was able

(28:30):
to elicit in his films in his best movies is
something very beautiful and profound. But I don't find Delao's
movies necessarily any different. I think he's getting at a
different type of story, but it's just as real in
a lot of ways, if not more real, And I
love them both. I always say Fellini is my favorite

(28:51):
director of all time. We'll get into more of that
in just a minute. We get into the topic later,
but I think that what Delayo was able to capture
film is just as powerful in some ways and very
like visceral. So I love him. But thank you for
going down this tangent with me. Oh no worries, and
I just I have a personal you. You mentioned you

(29:12):
have a goal in life of talking about the permitting.
I have a goal in life of bringing making movies
like Ilbos and the performance of Henry Silva in that,
like treating that with respect, because he gave a hell
of a performance in that movie, and like he commands
the screen when he's in these in Deleo's movies. So anyways,

(29:35):
I just like to call attention to that every chance
I get.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
Henry Silva does a great job in that film, that
that is one of the films. My my mother worked
on Oh Boss, and yeah, it has quite a cost.
I mean, I think, uh, Pierre Paulo Caponi is who
is generally just a wonderful actor, but in that film
is particularly effective. But yeah, everybody in that film gives

(30:08):
gives really strong performances. But he had an eye definitely
any for casting because because his his dialogues and and
and the portraits within the scripts are so precise, he
reached the casting process with a very very clear idea
of what he needed. So his films tend to be
cast cost very well. And you know the Delo. You know,

(30:33):
you as a fan of his, you'll be happy to
know that. Yeah, he was on all accounts, a very refined,
very polite, not a shouter. You you get a lot
of stories of you know, directors, especially from that era,
being big shouters on set. He was not a shouter.
He he was self proclaimed feminist. He was he was

(30:58):
a very pleasant man. I mean, he The only differences
I'd say from between him in real life and the
interviews is he felt I think he felt the need,
he felt compelled to kind of look the ways of

(31:21):
speaking well about some of the films. He did or
finding meaning in real life he had, he was much
more selective. I mean, I remember him telling me he
only saved or was happy with the all round result
of only four or five of them, if I remember
correcting him. I'm going by memory here, but yeah, he

(31:42):
was a lot more critical of himself in real life
than I think he was during interviews. But yeah, he's
a very nice man.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
That's great to hear it. No, I'm just laughing because
you're right. He's very like you would if you listen
to any interview with him, you would think that he
thinks he's the most gifted person on the planet with
a lot of contum Oh. Interesting, that's good to know. Well,
I don't know if there's a perfectly natural transition into
getting into vinegar syndrome new releases, but I feel like

(32:13):
it's a good time to do that, and we're definitely
gonna have time on the back end to go back
into more of the part of your career that I'm
so excited to discuss, which is, you know, some of
the special feature production. One of the things that I
like to do as we go through these is to
kind of go by the order of the spine numbers

(32:35):
just the way that my brain thinks, right, So before
we got into March, at the end of February, we
got up to VS. Four ninety four, which is how
the spine number reads on the side, and the VS.
Four ninety five is three movies ones that I think
you're gonna have a lot to talk about. It's the

(32:56):
eighth volume of the Forgotten Jelly set, and the three
movies are Rings of Fear, which is an Alberto Nigrin movie,
and then Reflections in Black, which is a Tanel Cimarosa,
and then Triple a Massus Good Looking Offers Her Services,
which is a demo Filo Fidane movie. Before we get

(33:19):
into these, I'm curious to hear how you talk about this,
and I don't know if you know. For me, this
is exciting. These movies sound very interesting, and Volume seven,
to me is one of the best box sets I
own overall. I just I loved especially Obsession, and of

(33:41):
course I'm having a bit of a brain freight, but
there was two there was two movies in that box
that were some of the best ones I've seen in
the last few years, and so I'd love to hear
you are very close to the release of Volume eight,
and I'd love to just yeah, like, how was it
working on this, how much did you know versus kind
of learned and research and you know, yeah, I just

(34:03):
love to hear a little bit about this production.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
Well, I mean the forgotten Charlie. This is number eight
is my third third box set I produced for and
third third Yes, six, seven and eight, And yeah, they're
always good fun. There was good fun box sets. I
mean generally from a kind of budgetary from a organizational

(34:33):
point of view or a bit more complicated. There's there
are many more things to kind of keep an eye on,
and you can go over budget or you know, miss
things much more easily. You have to kind of keep
everything under check a lot more strictly than a solo

(34:55):
release of course. But but yeah, no, there always there
was good fun. I'm really happy with all three of them.
I have to say. I everyone presents different choices. Like
for example, with number six, I made the choice, which

(35:17):
maybe not everybody would agree with, was to go with
give some priority to the Blood Stain Shadow because it
had been released but it never had really a big
amount of extras. It always you know, not quite vanilla releases,

(35:38):
but close to Vanilla, and I felt it was the
strongest film out of the three, the one that, you know,
I think had the more interesting story to tell, and
so we went all in with that. I mean, I
put together I think six paturettes and audio commentary, a
photo gallery with a lot of never seen before or photos,

(36:00):
and we interviewed everybody. I mean, I interviewed Claudio simoniqu
Antonio Bido, leading actors, Medisan Dalo who's had never been
the co writer, and Antonio Bido's partner wife, she had
never been interviewed at all, ever, on camera or otherwise.

(36:23):
Not to say the other two films don't have extras,
but just less hefty package. And Volume seven was was
definitely the most fun I had, because they're very interesting films. Untay, Yeah,
they're they're extremely unique and yeah, and I got to

(36:45):
interview I think some people, some very particularly interesting people
like gett A Ganzino and Bartos Mala. I'm very particularly
happy with Peter ra Fanini, the director, writer co writer
of The Pathos Obsession and Taste for Fair, which is
an interview I'm particularly happy with because it we discuss

(37:06):
a number of aspects that usually don't come out like
music videos directors in Italy coming from the world of
video clips as they're called in Italy or you know
all that, you know, sort of the that world there,
and Petrolafanini has a lot to say. So yeah, no,

(37:27):
generally these these books that I'm very happy with.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Now.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Volume eight is probably the sleaziest, the slesiest trio films,
which is seeing a lot considering you know, the previous
one as much as you know, there's there's some you know,
they're all very interesting, but you know, the sleeze is there,
but this definitely ups the level of sleaziness. I mean,

(37:54):
but I'm very I'm very happy with the extras. Now
for Ring Sophia, we've got the Magic Trio. We've got
Alberto Nigrin. The director Franco Ferini, who of course you know,
is a very well known powerhouse writer when it comes
to to jolly and horror, especially with his collaboration with

(38:18):
Dario Argento, and he this was his first official film
as a writer, so he has a lot to say
about that. I think particularly interesting are the statements he
gives regarding Massimo de la Mano, who obviously was the
designator designating designated director for this film, and then you

(38:41):
know he was already already preparing it. He he he was,
he was not well and obviously died and was his
place was taken by Nigrin, and Fierini has a lot
to say about that transition between directors. Then we've got
Fabio Testi, obviously the male lead. We've got actually two interview,

(39:05):
two featurettes, I should say, with Nigrine. The one is
all about the film and his involvement in it. The other,
which I believe is called cecil Binna Green. I'm kind
of happy with that, that that title, and it talks
about his television production because he is not His filmography

(39:31):
has made out nine point nine percent of TV movies
and mini series. He's not really a film director. The
Red Rings of Fear or Rings of Fear is his
only theatrical film. But the films he did for television
are huge. I mean he worked with you know, Bob
Hoskins and Michael Yorke and Anthony Hopkins, and you know

(39:56):
he he did these Rat Susan Saran. Then I mean
these really really big, rich television productions, often co productions.
So we get into a little bit into that. We've
got an audio commentary I recorded with Troy Howard and
Nathaniel Thompson. But probably the package of xers I'm most

(40:17):
happy with is the one for AA Massuse, which where
we get Howard ross who is pretty much the male
lead in the film, Dinado Rossini that's his real name,
is a very sweet man and I've interviewed him many
times over the years. But especially I'm happy with the

(40:38):
Simon Simon Blondell interview because beside being one of the
leading actors in the film, she's also the daughter of
director of maf Lufi Dani, and she has a lot
to say. And you know, it's always risky when you're
talking to relative tips of somebody, you know, when you're

(41:01):
interviewing a niece, a nephew, a widow or you know,
son or daughter, whatever, because you know, they they they
kind of edit. They they choose what to talk about,
and you know they they have a certain agenda there following.
But Simonita was very, very transparent, very open, you know,

(41:26):
and talked about all it's it's a very exhaustive piece,
you know. I think as far as the information on Fidani,
you know, this bundle of extras is probably the biggest
thing out there is a big part of why that is.
Then you've got an interview with luc at Air, who's

(41:48):
besides a you know, accomplished filmmaker and a television writer,
he's and a very good friend. He directed the documentary
Jiango Django Starting Toarantino, and he is a Fidani expert.
I've interviewed him in the past for Indicator a couple
of times, and I always like to call him up

(42:09):
and involve him and stuff because he is He's very
pleasant to listen to her, I think, and uh, and
then there's me on camera talking about a specific aspect
of the film, which is palasin Adorre Palas is very
much alive. However, she does not famously does not release interviews.

(42:29):
She's born again Christian and does not want to talk
about her career. Some people out there don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
That's fascinating. No, that's fascinating because like she was in
Images in a Convent, right.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Yeah, with Howard Ross and.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
That.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's she's an amazing career. You know,
when it comes to cult cinema, she's you know, she
is an in so many different films. She was in
you know, a story of a cloister.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
None.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
I did extras for that recently last year. She's worked
with multiple times with Joedamato, She's worked with Better LENSI
I mean she she she is, you know, one of
the sacrificial lambs of Italian genre cinema. But yeah, she
does not talk. She does not talk about her career.

(43:24):
She had a kind of a dramatic turn of events
in the eighties. She developed very public at the time
a drug addiction. She turned to pornography to explicit hardcore films,
although she actually only did one. But as most people know,
they're you know, these scenes get spliced up and end

(43:46):
up on numerous releases and so you know, but actually
sheyy did one. So she she was also arrested for
detention of drugs and you know, so yeah, she she
kind of yeah, reshaped her life around God and doesn't
really want to talk about the past. So there's me

(44:06):
talking about it, and there's an audio commentary this time
only with me and Troy and finding reflections in Black
is probably the black sheep of the trio because it
only has one featurette. But I think it's a good one.
We have as biographer who's also a good friend and

(44:29):
a totem of the National Film Registry. He is an
important programmer in Rome and with him I've organized over
the years many retrospectives dedicated to different directors in Rome.
And he wrote a book on Tanos, so he discusses

(44:50):
and I wouldn't want to spoilerr anything, but I'll just
say didn't actually direct this film, which is a well
known relative. I mean well known as it's a big,
big term when it comes to a film like We're
fector The Black. But let's say that within certain arenas
it's fairly well known indirected. I wouldn't say who did,

(45:13):
because you know, Dominico says, you know, reveals that in
the interview. Okay, so hopefully yeah, an interact an interesting
bunch of exers.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
I hope that's that's great context. Thank you for that. Yeah,
it's this is the thing that I love so much
about the research you go into, the depth, and the
personal connection you have with Italian film is cinema because
you know, for you Reflections in Black and the fact
that Donoosdosa didn't direct it is well known and so

(45:44):
like for you, it's like second nature just to talk
about this, right, which I think that's the exciting thing
for me because I I feel like your every commentary
you're on it's or special feature you produce. It's like
there's so much that you just kind of know from
being around this world for so long. And I mean,
I'm sure you do a lot of research as well,
but it just feels like this is a very known
and like comfortable space for you to be in and

(46:06):
talk about, which I love. So I can't I can't
wait for the context of anything you're in.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yeah, well, thank you. And no, it's it's you know,
sometimes I think when it comes to producing special features,
it's it's it's complicated. I mean, I mean, don't get
me wrong, it's it's a privileged role. I'm very very
grateful for the position I'm in, and I you know,

(46:35):
I don't want to say it's it's it's you know,
devastatingly hard work or anything like that. But it can
get complicated because, first of all, to be able to survive,
you need obviously, you know, it would be great to
work on one release, you know, have it all done
nice and shiny past to the next one. Now you

(46:57):
have to obviously, you know you're working on seven, eight, nine, ten, twelve,
fifteen releases at the same time, and you have to
make a lot of decisions. Sometimes, you know, you have
to work with very small budgets, and the turnaround vinga

(47:22):
syndrome has an excellent turnaround. I've never been pressed for time.
I have to say, maybe in a couple of occasions,
stuff has you know, was kind of changed all of
you know, all of a sudden for kind of organizational issues.
But generally I am I'm not pressed for time. But

(47:44):
sometimes even what seems like a good amount of time
isn't enough because you know, just finding some of these
people can because sometimes are very time consuming. Sometimes convincing
them you find them immediately, but you you want to
convince them. You know, there there are a few people,
you know, Palas and that is a big example. But

(48:06):
you know, even among technicians, cinematographers, editors, that people that
just don't want to talk, or people that don't remember.
You know, they want to talk, but I said, you know,
I don't remember anything about this film, so you know
you have to So there are a lot of a
lot of different issues, and you know where they are geographically.

(48:30):
You know, you have to find you know, I've got
a tight unit of editors and camera operators that I've
been working on. We're working with for years now. But
you know, sometimes you have to send camera operators god
knows where in Italy or around Europe, or find somebody
which can be a logistical night American make the budget levity.

(48:52):
You know, there's there are all sorts of all sorts
of issues, and so yeah, it's it's it's tricky. It
is tricky, but it's it's it's a it's a lot
of it can be a lot of fun. I try
to as much as possible to think out of the

(49:12):
box and try to get people that have never been interviewed,
you know. In in this case, I don't think has
given an interview. Definitely not an interview like this. I
know she's been interviewed for magazines, but I don't think
she's ever been into that. It's a forty five minute piece,

(49:34):
and I don't think it's there's anything quite like that
out there. I know Albert Tony Green was uninterviewed once
on on Red Rings of Fear. However, I can tell
you that in the case of previous releases, I can

(49:55):
tell you Petrona Finini has never been interviewed. Luciano Luki,
production manager on The Blood Stained Shadow and Obsession and
Taste for Fey, had never been interviewed. Well, yes, Marisse
and dlos I mentioned before, never been interviewed. So you know,
I try to get people that you know, I have

(50:21):
something different to say.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Yeah, it shows, And I think the fun thing is,
you know, although it makes sense to get the director
on a release if you can, because they obviously are
the leader of the production. But you know, it's not
that an art director or a production manager or a
script designer or you know, a script supervisor. It's not
like they're not close to the picture like they're going

(50:46):
to you know, they're in and out of this every day,
so they're going to have just as many stories and
kind of their own perspective, right. So it's I love
it when you get folcused like this on because it
has a different layer of context. And I think something
you said is very import and actually that if you
get somebody who's not so tied to the outcome of
the film in the sense of a director is going

(51:07):
to be to have such a personal investment in the
way that it came out, you know, But if you
have somebody who more was kind of clocking and clocking out,
kind of working on it, you get a more unbiased
perspective of the production and the movie, which I think
is also is quite important as you reflect back on that,
just to see that, you know, you get stories you
would never have otherwise, and I love it.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
So yeah, I mean it's getting a director's im Polton
because obviously, you know, you have to have the director
if he's alive, you know, but you know, when it
comes to roles, you have to expect different things. For example,
composer and editors have great stories, but theirs are usually

(51:52):
portraits because obviously composers and editors work for the most
part in post production, so they they usually don't meet
the actors, they don't go on set, so they don't
have anecdotes, so they can really talk more about the
relationship with the director or the atmosphere of the time,

(52:13):
or if it's a particularly demanding film, they might remember
issues with censorship or you know whatever, you know, something
going wrong in the editing suite. But generally you can
kind of you get more like portraits. It's more broader brushes. Yeah,
but yeah, when it comes to on set heads of

(52:35):
department like head of makeup and camera and set design
and all that. You get kind of incredible stories. But yeah,
they really get, they really get, they really get interviewed,
and it's it's it's a shame. There's there's a massive

(52:57):
quantity of information that just gets lost.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
One other Just just to give some love to one
other person who does a very good job of this.
I think if you look at I don't know familiar
with a report called the rialto or a podcast and
like a production called the Rialta Report. But there's a
gentleman there named Ashley West who's chronicling adult film specifically
in New York. And actually that's not true. He's branched

(53:21):
out of just New York. But he looks at the
history of pornographic film and kind of the golden era
when their budgets were higher and it was more theatrical
distribution and these kind of things, and you know, you
get a lot of people that are sometimes the actors
in those movies don't want to talk on you know, officially,
although sometimes they do. But so he gets a lot

(53:42):
of kind of people within the world, and so you
end up and I think this is similar to what
happens when the production the DVDs that well, I can't
say DVDs anymore, the blu rays and the four K
that you produce. I think it's a similar outcome, which
is like you get a full context of the production.
It's not just hearing one angle, but you really leave
with like an understanding of the environment and that was

(54:03):
going on around Italy at the time in this case,
or you know, like how the production went and all that,
which for me is fascinating as a film lover because
I just get like a richer, you know, depth of
knowledge going into watching the movie again and then really
getting to enjoy it for that. So yeah, that's that's
that's a very nice not only about volume made, but

(54:23):
I think I love that introduction into how you think
about production. Do you The next one on the list
is going to be four ninety six, which is a
double feature and it's they're both Category three films from
Hong Kong. Outside of being this expert in Italian cinema,
do you spend a lot of time in other countries?
Do you watch a lot of Have you seen a

(54:44):
lot of Category three movies?

Speaker 3 (54:47):
I've seen a decent amount I'm I'm a firm believer
in I have to say I'm naturally suspicious of film
historians that that kind of talk about everything. Not I'm
not obviously, when I mean talking, I don't mean as

(55:08):
you know, filmgoers or you know, talking among friends or
expressing opinions. Obviously that's But I mean when I mean talking,
I mean writing about and professionally dissecting or analyzing or
working on, you know, kind of worldwide cinema because you know,

(55:29):
you only find it really in film, I mean in
any in the art world. You yes, I mean you
get a kind of a knowledge about everything. You know,
you know a little bit about everything, but you know,
within victorial art, you you everybody specializes in something. So
I mean, I I don't go I would, I would never.

(55:52):
I mean Adian Films has been asking me to produce
stuff for their Asian collection, and I the fact that
they asked me, I mean, it's it's but I've always
said no because you know, I don't think I could,
I could bring anything special to it. You know, I
would be going through the motions. I'd be you know,

(56:16):
kind of just you know, second guessing everything, and I
don't think i'd bring anything new. I couldn't I could,
I wouldn't be able to think out of the box.
So I so I stay away from from cinema that
I haven't studied. That said, yeah, I mean I watched

(56:39):
films from all over the world, very interested in French Pollard,
and I have actually produced extras for French films. I'm
I'm obviously very interested in in new Hollywood cinema, and
I'm a big fan of musicals from the fifties and

(57:02):
early sixties, American musicals. I grew up watching My Fair Lady.
I knew that film off by heart. And although that's
early sixties, not fifties, but and yeah, American cinema from
the seventies. I like sci fi, Russian films. I like

(57:26):
Northern European cinema quite a bit. I'm obviously a big
fan of some strained sort of British cinema link studios.
I grew up watching, you know, films like directed by
Charles Crichton or Robert Hemer So yeah, no, I mean,
there's a whole world I love. When it comes specifically

(57:47):
to CAT three and CAT three films, I've seen them,
I own some, but it's not my comfort zone.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
I understand. I think My Lady has a similar plot
to Devil Fetus the first release, where a young woman
purchases a vase that looks a lot like a male penis,
and that vase impregnates her and her husband kills her
in a faith of a fate of rage, and there's

(58:18):
this as the story progresses, there's the demon inside her
that comes back through the way the story goes similar.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
To my remake pretty much remake, Yes.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
I love I told you when we were I think
before we started recording, I said, my background is more like,
you know, classical film school kind of film. That's how
I got into two movies and film history. Uh. But
you know, the more I get into it, I love
creativity kind of in any form. And I think the
thing that I love so much about Cat three is

(58:50):
if you can stomach the gooey like there's a lot
of you know, when they like Devil Fetus is a
good example, there's just a lot of gore, you know.
H g Lewis in his movies promises a lot of gore,
but he's making a movie for ten dollars, so he
doesn't always actually produce a lot of gore. But these

(59:10):
Cat three movies actually produce a lot of gore. So
Devil Fetus is one that it's a very gory horror
movie and gooey and sticky and bloody. And you know,
if you can stomach that, and I mean both you specifically,
but just anybody listening, like if you can stomach that.
I love the fact that these movies are just kind

(59:32):
of pushing the boundaries of writing and like what to
include in the movie, and like that you have some
this incredible imagination that comes into play that has a
little bit of martial arts mixed in because that's what
people wanted to see. Uh, And but yeah, I just
love these the There's like two different types of Cat

(59:54):
three movies, right, There's ones that are more gory and
gooey and bloody, and then there's some that are more
sex like the Eurotic ghost story movies or something like that.
Double Fetus is more on the on the horror side,
but it's a fun one. And this it's it's almost
it's a I would say, relatively well known Cat three movie.

(01:00:17):
But you know, the director himself is not necessarily somebody
who had an extremely long career. Lao hung Chen was
was around the film industry, but only I think, only
directed seven movies and was more not as well known
as a director specifically. But the second one in this
double feature is Her Vengeance, which I'm so excited because

(01:00:40):
lomnai Choi is the director of mini movies that are
getting a release. But my introduction into KAT three was
through Ricky O. Have you by chance seen Ricky O?
The story of Ricky?

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Yeah, okay, I have great I have.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
I mean, I I in enjoy the lunacy. I I
just enjoy the cartoon elements. Does it hit a nerve
with me personally? No, it's but I I I love

(01:01:18):
the fact it exists. I love the fact that you know,
somebody you know had that vision and went with it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Yeah, that's a I think that's a very diplomatic way
to say it, and I appreciate that. I respect that.
The thing that is interesting about Her Vengeance specifically is
if you take a movie like I Spit on Your
Grave or maybe Thriller or some of these really famous
kind of rape revenge films, you know, this is an

(01:01:45):
entry into that genre. However, as you can imagine, it's
a category three films, so it really goes for both
the rape and the revenge. Well, I don't know that
the rape is necessarily that hard to it's not. It's
not that brutal. It's not like irreversible or something. It's
not like that. But the revenge they really focus on that,
and it gets quite violent, which can be fun in

(01:02:08):
the category of a woman getting revenge on her sexual assailants.
So to me, these I'm a little bit disappointed these
didn't get individual releases, if I'm being honest, because I
feel like a movie called Devil Fetus is going to
sell well for vinegar syndrome fans regardless of what's in
the movie. And her Vengeance is quite a well known film,

(01:02:32):
but could also just be sold from the director of
Riccio as a separate release, so I'm not quite sure
why they put this as a double feature. But that aside,
it has a great well I haven't seen the essay,
but I assume it's great. Sam Deagan does an essay
on rape revenge films, which is very excited to hear
her talking about that. There is a commentary track by

(01:02:54):
Travis Woods, who loves Hong Kong films, so I'm excited
to hear that. And then I have not heard much
from the people in the commentary for Her Vengeance. There's
a guy named Bruce holtzek Art Edinger, who is I've
definitely heard Art on commentary as before, and then Ryan Smith.
This seems to be a writer. I don't know as

(01:03:15):
much about Bruce or Ryan, but anything Art Edinger is
going to have a lot of passion in it. And
certainly Travis Woods is a deep expert in Hong Kong stuff.
So yeah, I think they I'm excited for this release,
the very excited for this. This is an immediate purchase
for me, whether or not I'm a subscriber, but I

(01:03:38):
would say I'm a little disappointed it's not to release.
Is That's my only thing. The thing to call out
probably on this is that Her Vengeance kind of famously
has a slightly less grotesque cut which is a cat
to be which would be equivalent to kind of like
somewhere between PG. Thirteen and R in the US, And

(01:03:58):
so it does have category to be cut that they
include on the release, which is longer actually, which is
interesting that the edited version is longer, but they add
more story and background in context and exposition that kind
of stuff in the film so.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
I might, you know, I might pick this one, pick
this one up. But no, But Jennery, do you think
I was having a conversation some a few weeks ago
regarding this because I've been working on quite a few
raper revenge films Italian specifically over the past couple of

(01:04:43):
couple of years. Last Nitreen Murders as being released in
four K from eighty eight Films, and I worked on that,
and there have been a couple and I'm kind of
I've reached my personal conclusion that on screen rape now

(01:05:10):
coming from at least male directors, should be you know,
used on camera. I mean we're not talking about rape
as a narrative element, you know, within we're embedded within
a story, but you know, on camera rape scenes as
a rule of thumb. So with many exceptions, possible exceptions,

(01:05:32):
I think I think should be toned down as an
element nowadays because I think that you know that Donkey
has been flogged to death, and I think that the
victimization of women on screen is something that I think
has to be toned down a little bit now. Not
because you have to tone it down, you know, I

(01:05:55):
don't believe in any of you know, you have to
follow pre preconceived rules about this, but I think it's
socially useful to do so, you know, it's the responsible
thing to do, unless unless, of course, the story, you know,
really needs a story that has to be told. But
I think that should be a bigger filter when it
comes to male on female rape scenes. Just you know,

(01:06:21):
one should think twice is this really necessary? Then you know,
ask that question again, is it really really really necessary?

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Then then if you respond three times to that, okay,
gone and do it. But I think there should be
a bigger filter.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Yeah, I think that there's there's two things that immediately
come to mind that when you say that. First of all,
you know, the idea that the rape is depicted and
that there are people out there getting pleasure from the
rape part and not the revenge part is certainly troubling,
and I don't really know necessarily what to do about
that from even from a discussion standpoint. I don't like

(01:06:57):
the fact that that exists, but it certainly that's one element.
The physical media releases that are coming out that feature
those elements, I don't mind from the perspective of it's
already been made, right. Some of them are thirty forty
fifty years old, and if you're responsible with the context

(01:07:19):
around it, and you're not necessarily celebrating the rape, but
rather celebrating the movie and saying that this is something
that should be preserved and all that. I don't have
a major issue with anything coming out, and I don't
think that's what you were saying, by the way, but
just to kind of put that out there, I guess
you know, there's a massive box set for thriller that

(01:07:40):
came out and I'm blanking no. From Vinegar Syndrome. Yeah,
from Vinegar Syndrome itself, and you know, the special features
and everything around that were fascinating. Now what you said
around how rape is portrayed in films now that have
a revenge element. On the back end, there's a really

(01:08:01):
interesting case study from a female French director called simply
called a Revenge from about seven years ago, where the
rape is implied, it's not really shown. There. It goes
there's a guy that comes in, takes advantage of her,
puts his body on her, and there's one scene I
think where she's kind of pressed up against a wall.

(01:08:22):
But it's the rest of it is up to your imagination.
And the music and the tone, and it's more implied, right,
And it did not take away anything from the movie
for me, like the it You know, there's an argument
that like you need to see the pain in order
to celebrate the revenge part, right, But I don't think

(01:08:44):
there's any merit to that. I think if you imply
that there's a rape and it's off screen, that's plenty
to understand because we have a just like any communication,
I think over time you are able to lean on
the history of the genre and get to the point
without the exposition or in this case, without the gratuitous details.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
In that way, I fully agree with you. Yeah, to me,
it's it's it's about it's about in a society now
that is image based more than ever. I think it's
I wasn't so much thinking about people enjoying the rape scenes,

(01:09:26):
but I don't think actually many that you know, yes,
of course there are you know that there's there's everything
out there, so yeah, sure they're definitely going to be
people that enjoy that. But I wasn't so much thinking
about that per se. I was thinking more about, you know,
persisting images tied to women. You know, do we want

(01:09:47):
to sort of forgive this idea of the woman as
a victim. Yes there's the revenge, sure, but you know
it starts out it is it's all about them being brutalized.
And you know, I think that sort of imagery is
something we have to be a bit more responsible with

(01:10:09):
when it comes. When it comes from a woman director,
I think it's different. I think there's a level of
you know, reappropriating something that will inevitably not have a
male gaze. I mean a lot of these raper bench films,
I mean, there are some great films out there that
are even political manifestos. I mean I mentioned Nitrain Murders.

(01:10:29):
That's an incredibly political film which.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Which is.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
Much more layered I think than most even Italian rape
a bench films. Although it's incredibly disturbing, I think it's
I think it's it's an interesting, deeply interesting film which
which is much more political in nature, and it doesn't
really have the.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
If you if you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
Dismantle it doesn't really help the rapeer event structure as
clearly as say I spit on your grave or the things.
And it's a big budget film compared to the generators
of the neo current, starting with The Lost House on
the left onwards. But yeah, I just think, you know,
that sort of imagery has to we have to be

(01:11:22):
collectively more responsible with which is not censoring, you know.
And that doesn't mean that, you know, directors shouldn't be
free to tell the stories they wanted to tell, But
it just means, you know, just be more conscientious about
what you're putting out there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
I think, you know, I always think of it as
a way of saying, like, you know, there's this argument
around curse words or bad words, and if you're a parent,
you might say to your kid, who's excited that they
learned all these words and is exciting to use them,
you might say, like, use them only when you need
to to make a point, but don't use them as

(01:12:01):
a way of dumbing down your language. Right, Like, there's
nothing wrong inherently wrong with the word fuck, but like
don't use it all the time, just like because some
people are uncomfortable with the word or whatever. But like,
if there's there's certain context where the word is, right,
but like, don't use that as an excuse for making
an intelligent sentence, right, Like, if you if you're using

(01:12:21):
it just as a way of adding exclamation or excitement
to a phrase, then maybe there's other ways to say
it where you're not having to say it all the time.
And I think there's something to be said for films
that can convey something like Bergmann has a rape made
a rape revenge movie right in Sweden in the fifties

(01:12:42):
or sixties exactly, And so he made a rape revenge
film and he certainly didn't have an eight minute rape
scene in the film, right. He was able to because
he's such a master storyteller. He was able to convey
the same emotion and the same reaction from the audience
without being gratuitous on the female imagery side, right. And

(01:13:05):
I think, so it can be done. It can be done,
and I think the fact that it can be done
means that aspirationally, maybe it should. And to your point,
we're kind of out of the whole drive through era.
We're kind of out of the whole B picture era
or out of the we're not really in that video
store era anymore. We don't have that any genre, any

(01:13:26):
industries that are supported by movies that people don't want
to admit to watching, but they flock to, right, And
so maybe in that the culturally it's just not as
relevant anymore. And I have no issue with that because
I don't hear you calling for censorship. I just hear
you calling more to be like responsible with yeah, and

(01:13:47):
I certainly am all about that. So the I would say,
the cat three producers and directors and crew and you know,
performers were reacting to a specific time and history where
these were huge sellers in the box office and it

(01:14:08):
was encouraged to go as big as you can. And
if you could have a scene of a phallic shaped
vase impregnating a woman and pregnanting her with the devil,
then you made that movie. And I enjoy the fact
that these movies are coming out. But yeah, if you're

(01:14:30):
focusing now on you know, should the Devil Fetus be
made with the same amount of salacious material in it
or whatever? Like, I don't know, it's I think the
Substance nowadays is an interesting example about that. Or there's
one that called Her Body that came out recently, So
there's certain directors. I think we're getting into an era
where there's more empowerment for women to make movies like

(01:14:51):
this and kind of own their own sexuality and their
own the way that their bodies are portrayed on film,
and so for that it's a different discussion, right, kind
of like you said.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
Oh yeah, I mean I I, you know, I don't.
Just to be clear and to expand on what we're
talking about, I'm not a fan of this, this sort
of trend within certain sort of arenas or cinephiles or

(01:15:24):
you know, people that kind of go back in time
with a fine coma dissecting films from the past, applying morals.
If anything, I mean, I do find it frustrating that
I do notice a certain level because we live in

(01:15:44):
a time which is, you know, as so much good
in it, but there's also a level of arrogance which
is cyclical. Every generation you know, thinks it's you know,
rediscovered reinvented the wheel and has gotten it right, and
is you know, figuring out stuff and emitting stuff, which

(01:16:05):
is fine, that's just comes, it's just perfectly normal. However,
I feel lately there's been this sense of there's a
certain arrogance with which things are judged in hindsight. And
I don't know if it's a lack of critical thinking
or it's I don't know, but there is this idea

(01:16:29):
that you know, people in the directors and artists in
from decades past did not have a certain degree of
you know, finesse or or didn't feel responsible or you know.
So there are many directors that you know, male and female,

(01:16:52):
that were working in the past, and we're doing films
you know, with a very big social conscious and it
seemed cyclical. I mean, I would say the nineties are
much more backwards than the seventies. You know, this is
you know, society is not you know, a straight line.
It's not an escalation. As we can see now, we're
hitting a very low point in the many points of

(01:17:15):
views politically speaking. So it's you know, from all perspectives,
it's it's much more scattered. You know, we look at
the sixties and seventies in many ways, it was much
more progressive times in the eighties and nineties. So you know,
the past is a complicated place, you know, and you
just can't go and start labeling stuff. You know, there

(01:17:36):
are a number of things that are have been done
over the past ten years and you know, are happening
now that we'll look upon in thirty years as absolutely
trum terrible. In the same way, in film Kwire from
a film perspective in the same way some things are
really interesting and generally innovative. I mean, for example, I

(01:17:57):
find incredibly condescending and pan ring the way a certain
strands of Hollywood treat you know, the treat women and
and and and the figure of women in film. The
whole idea of making a female, all female version of

(01:18:18):
whatever franchise was popular in the eighties, you know, Ghostbusters
or later on Otions eleven, you know, doing an all
female version I think is incredibly offensive. I don't. I
don't care. I mean personally, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:18:34):
There's nothing untouchable. You know, anything can be remade, and
it can be rethought. It's a it's an ever continuing,
you know, process of reinventing and changing and expanding. And
so I don't feel any you know, I don't feel
that touching my child when they may remake film or
you know, or or or make a sequel remakes go

(01:18:55):
back to the silent era that they's nothing new, what
is but but to do that? You know often you know,
films directed by men, produced by men. But let's make
a female version or an all black version of this,
you know, popular franchise which is which is still I think,

(01:19:17):
I think is incredibly toxic when as there's instead of
actually inventing something new, something innovative, something that you know,
can can you know, we can build upon, rather than
taking you know, something pre existing and just handing it
out as a law, you know, kind of participation prize.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
M Mmmm, no, I think. But much rather rather than
a female Ghostbuster, for example, much rather how brut rally
get funding to make another movie, right, Because I don't
know if you've seen Sorry to Bother You? I think
it's I hope, I hope I'm getting the name right.
It's been a while since I've seen, is it Sorry
to Bother Yeah? Sorry to Bother You. That's to me,
that's one of the best movies that's come out in

(01:20:04):
the last fifteen years. And like the fact that he's
not just getting money thrown at him to make movies
is fascinating to me because that movie had everything you
would imagine from a creativity standpoint, and it had amazing
actors and good direction and tight music, and it was
just this masterpiece of a movie. And much rather give

(01:20:27):
him money to make stuff for the next thirty years,
as opposed to boring things that are pandering and condescending, right.
I totally understand what you're saying. I don't really know
how to tie that into Brimstone in Treacle other than
to say, you know, I think Sting has been on
the right side of this discussion as far as I

(01:20:47):
can tell. He's been an advocate for progressive ballsy and
trying to be a good public figure, responsible public figure.
Brimstone in Treacle is a British film that came out
in nineteen eighty two and it's it is vs. Four
ninety seven. The thing that I'm most excited about this

(01:21:10):
is that in April that means we'll get to five hundred,
so I'm very interested in seeing what they do for
the release of the five hundred release Brimstone in Trickle.
The director is Richard long Crane. He's been a steady
figure in filmmaking and TV for years since eighty two,

(01:21:30):
and in fact had a movie recently what was it
called Wimble. It was just something called Wimbledon that did
quite well critically and was fairly popular. So Richard Lecrane
certainly somebody who's been around, and he has mostly been
in TV I think other than that, but there's A.

(01:21:54):
This is famous for having Sting kind of in the
lead role, and then Dannam Elliott, who's you know, shoot,
what's his character's name in Indiana Jones, I can't believe.
I'm Marcus Sprody from Indiana. Jones is one of his
close friends. But this is A I haven't seen this one,

(01:22:16):
but it's something that seems like it's kind of like
a thriller, and I've heard that. I've read some reviews
on this since it came out, since it was announced
a few hours back, and I watched the trailer for this,
and it really feels like Sting is kind of bringing
a Malcolm McDowell type energy to this. He seems like
it's a pretty intense role, and Sting's already proven he

(01:22:38):
can act, so I'm interested to see this is a.
This is one of his bigger acting roles in terms
of time on screen and kind of lead performances. And
it's supposed to be the law around this is that
it was made for TV, but it was so disturbing
that they actually took it off of TV and made
a theatrical release for it, so it was it was

(01:23:01):
deemed too intense for television, so I don't know. Do
you have any background with this one? I don't. I
learned about this movie today in total transparency, but it
sounds like an interesting one.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
It's an interesting film. And now I don't remember what
version I saw. I don't remember if I saw the
BBC two version or the re edit. I think I
want to say I saw the television version, but I honestly,
I honestly don't remember. However, it's it's an interesting film.

(01:23:37):
I mean long Craney is an interesting director. I personally
think it's best work. Brimston and Triggle could be up there.
Probably Richie's Rich the Third is probably my favorite film
of his with if not for anything else, just for
Ian mckellan's performance, which is one of the best. I
think together with the Gods and Monsters, it's one of

(01:23:58):
his best performances. Do you want to feel really old
because Wimbledon that you mentioned is actually twenty one years old?

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
That film? No, it's not, Oh no, it doesn't. Four
holy moly, yeah, but.

Speaker 3 (01:24:21):
It's it's I know, I know, it's it's it's ridiculous.
But they have time time wait too, let's not go
down that route. But no ver longer and it's interesting.
I mean, he's I hate using this word hit and

(01:24:42):
miss because it implies a bunch of stuff. And I
don't know, I think the root of a director I think,
I don't know. I I don't like categorizing films too much.
But yes, there is a director that can be considered
him miss definitely. Richard long Crane is among is among those.

(01:25:06):
The Missionary with Michael Palin was sort of you know,
didn't didn't quite work well, they didn't have interesting things.
He had this Hollywood stint, you know, I think shortly
following Wimblin, I think two three years after with Firewall,

(01:25:26):
which was a very sort of slick thriller. He yeah,
he's he's kind of done it. And yes, as you say,
he worked a lot on in television. He did a comedy,
a comedy with the rended Zelweger. He he yeah, he's
moved around a lot. But you know, there's there's a

(01:25:51):
category of British directors, you know, Michael Aptid and Peter
Yates and you know, the directors of different generations. You
know which long Crane is subsequent compared to both these directors,
especially Peter Yates is the oldest one. I mentioned, but
that kind of have this. But John McKenzie or Mike Hodges,

(01:26:11):
the many that have this initial incredibly original group of
films and then sort of get sucked into the Hollywood
system and kind of they lose something in the process.
They sometimes they occasionally make big, you know, interesting films,
others kind of go full circle.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
It's you can say the same thing about Australian directors
Philip Noise, for example, Roger Donaldson that you know, start
out with this really crisp, really interesting films with by
innovative ideas and then just kind of stray. And I
feel Long Crane is kind of within this realm of filmmaker.

(01:26:55):
I don't think he's quite as interesting and the one
of the ones I mentioned.

Speaker 2 (01:26:58):
But well, and we're in about and in just a
minute or two we're about to talk a British director
who I think is a good example of somebody who
never really veered from making incredibly creative and innovative movies
his whole career. So I can't wait to get to Greenaway.
But as as far as this goes, this was early
on in his career. I think I believe it was

(01:27:20):
his second feature I'm just checking to see if Oh no,
I'm sorry. Third, I haven't seen something called Slate and Flame.
But Hunting of Julia is a movie that he's well
known for. And then this was his third feature, and
so yeah, it was early on he was. But he's
if you look through his filmography, it's you know, he
is in and out of BBC Television his whole career.

(01:27:43):
So he definitely is. You know, he was, he's been
a steady worker this whole time.

Speaker 3 (01:27:49):
Now, no, he's as said there, he's definitely well. First
of all, he arrives in time you know, in which
British cinema was was gearing up. I mean, that was
a period in which you see so many different things happening.
You've got producers like Jeremy Thomas, David Putnham putting together

(01:28:13):
big productions. You get films like Midnight Express.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
You get.

Speaker 3 (01:28:21):
Hugh Hudson first big big films like Chariots of Fire
and then subsequently the flawed yet interesting Gray Stoke. You
get a number of different directors. You get John Berman
coming back to the UK in the eighties after you know,

(01:28:43):
his very interesting, stimulat stimulating American period. You've got Neil
Jordan starting out his career. You've Got So's a very
interesting moment in the eighties for British cinema. Richard Long
is very much part of that movement, and obviously, I

(01:29:03):
mean Peter Greenaway is obviously I mean Peter Greenaway. I
feel it pls into a category onto itself.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
I was just about to say, I feel like you
almost have to talk about him as a singular example
and all of this, but we just before we move
on to him. I feel that's a pretty good introduction
to one, two, three, six movies that are coming out
in March from Vinegar Syndrome. So this is a big

(01:29:31):
month if you are a subscriber. This is one of
those months where it certainly feels like you're getting your
money worth, you know. We went from three in February
to six in March. Now, moving on from the mainline stuff,
there's three sub labels that all got a separate release

(01:29:51):
this month. So the first one is we've kind of
been teasing a little bit, is a Greenaway movie that
I have not seen, although I love Peter green a way.
This movie is called The Belly of an Architect. It's
from nineteen eighty seven and Eugenio, you are all over
this one. I am not quite.

Speaker 3 (01:30:14):
As much as I am on The Forgotten Jolly Boxer,
but yeah, I'm I'm very happy to have taken part
in this, in this release, I won't lie. It's it's
sometimes good to get out of the realm of Italian
genre cinema. Not that I complain. I like that that world,

(01:30:37):
I like inhabiting it, but you know, I can't help I'm,
you know, among other things, a big fan of noir, classic, classic,
nineteen forties more. And you know, there's so many different
different arenas or cinema I study and I deal with.

(01:30:59):
And yeah, so it was. It was in other words,
it was great to talk about something different for this one.

Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
Actually.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
So okay, this is an MGM property, and you know,
when you were working, when you're working, even when it's
it's a boutique label, when you're working indirectly for a
major because majors. MGM is particularly controlling over the products

(01:31:30):
they lease to boutique labels, but generally, I mean, I
recently last year I did a video essay for Treasured
Films The Island, which is a universal film I've worked on.
I can't say, unfortunately, because I just remember they have

(01:31:53):
not been announced. But I work, I'm working another two
MGM films for different labels, okay, And it's always complicated
because they want to they want to check, they want
to check everything. They you know, they have strict rules
about you know, certain topics. You know they can't touch
upon or you know, very specific about images and what

(01:32:19):
can what they they besacceptable not. You know, it's it's
a bit of a honestly, a bit of a pain
in the ass. So for this one, I I interviewed
my father.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
Architect.

Speaker 3 (01:32:38):
He my father is an architect and an art historian,
and he discusses a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I mean
he just discusses the film to a certain degree. But
most of all he's giving information about about kind of
Rome The film is said in Rome. It's entirely said

(01:33:00):
in Italy, and apart from right at the beginning, there's
some train some train shots, and there's some establishing shots
that are in the north of Italy. But let's say,
pretty much from the beginning, it's all said in Rome.
As far as the production of this film, it's a

(01:33:23):
little bit complicated to exactly break break it down as
far as the Paternity, the country most responsible. Italy has
a big part on it of it. You know, among
the cast, I'll just mention one name false we find
Stefania Cassini Savanna Caazzini. Is you know anybody out there
that loves Italian cinema and specifically Italian genre cinema. You

(01:33:46):
will know her for a whole array of different films,
Emergency Squad by Stellio Massi or the multiple time mentioned
the Bloodstained Shadow by Bidos. She's obviously in She's worked
with Gentle, She's in so Speedia, So I mean she's
a she's a big name and she's in it. The

(01:34:08):
part of the production is indeed, the producers indeed are Italian,
some crew members are Italian, but it's actually not listed
within the Italian Film National Film Registry as an Italian film.
So it's a it's a big complicated and we get

(01:34:29):
into it in the audio commentary, which is the second
special feature I put together the commentary. This time it
was my first time working with him. With Tony Strauss
and Tony works for Visual Vengeance and I I've done
extras for them, although I've done multiple films for them.

(01:34:52):
They all are yet to be announced, and Tony Tony,
I didn't know I was. I was talking to Tony
about other stuff and we just happened to start talking
about Greenaway and he was so passionate about Peter Greenaway

(01:35:12):
and so knowledgeable, and I said, you know what, like,
let me see if I can make this work. I'd
like to have you with me. And I couldn't have
made a better decision. I have no problem saying I
took you know, the the passenger seat on this one.

(01:35:33):
I I hope I brought you know, my contribution and
some interesting facts. But yeah, I let Tonally drive on
this one because he really really loves Peter Greenaway with
a passion. Not only loves him, but I studied him nearly,
you know, obsessively. He's accumulated a ridiculous amount of information

(01:35:57):
and newspaper clippings and just documents on the film. And
it's say, it really is remarkable. The amount of work
you put on this commentary. I think is is just fantastic.
So yeah, hopefully not an incredible as far as quantity
is concerned, an incredible amount of extras, but hopefully you know,

(01:36:18):
people will will enjoy them.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
Well, if we're it's rare that I get to talk
about Peter Greenaway on even your Syndrome podcast, So I
will just say since we are talking about him. I
sat through all three hours of The Falls, and I
remember just sitting back just feeling like, holy shit, like
somebody actually did this. Like it's the craziest premise for

(01:36:46):
a movie I've ever heard of. Essentially like a radio
producer just coming on and listing out. It's like they're
they're looking back in history talking about a historic event
and recounting families that were impacted by some kind of
unknown or undiscussed event, right, and they never really fully
get into what the event was. We do know that

(01:37:06):
it has to do with birds. And they walk through
like each of the families that were impacted by this,
or I don't love about all of them, but three
hours worth of families that were impacted by this, and
in order to track along with what's happening, you really
have to pay attention because there's little snippets of information
about the event that's given as they tell their stories,

(01:37:32):
and it's just the most bizarre, like beautiful piece of
art on film. And I was dying laughing but also
just amazed, that he fell through with it, and then
you get to something that was in nineteen eighty. Have
you seen that, by the way, I have, yes, so

(01:37:53):
you said through it as well. I mean, I don't
want to say it's a short because it's engaging, but
it's just there's no real way to sell somebody on it.
You either have to want to see it or you
won't see it. And I get that. But then you
go to something like A Z and two Nuts, which
is the visuals in that movie, you're so uncomfortable and memorable.

(01:38:16):
So I just am fascinated with this guy that it
just seems like he can go from something like The
False to then The Draftsman's Contract, to then the Zed
and two Nuts to then The Belly of an Architect,
which I can't wait to see, to Drowning by Numbers
and The Cook, the Thief and his Wife, Like every
single movie he makes is so unique and interesting and
uses humor in such weird ways, and like, I don't know,

(01:38:38):
I'm just fascinated with this guy's brain.

Speaker 3 (01:38:42):
Yeah, it's it's an interesting. It's interesting thing Greenaway because
he sort of deconstructs cinema in a way different from
say David Lynch, for example, or Cadamelo Bene or you know,

(01:39:03):
the kiind of surialist directors. He he is a painter,
so it conceives his structures, his films like a series
of paintings that there's still a narrative thread going throughout,
but it's it's for example, David Lynch, I did I'm

(01:39:24):
mentioning David Lynch by the way, I mean, what what
a tragedy. But there we go. But because I've come
across essays online in which, you know, when talking about
Greenaway and non non linear narrative, you know, Lynch kind

(01:39:47):
of gets thrown in the mix. But I find Lynch's world,
despite Lynch was, you know, began as a painter. In fact,
I find Lynch's were way more rooted in film. Like
his his world could only work in filmic language. The
camera moves, there's a three dimensionality to it, whereas Greenaway

(01:40:10):
in a way is anti film. Greenaway is static shots.
It's camera minimal movement. There's a sense of of of
a complete absence of depth of field. You know, there's
there's there literally are paintings. He's he's kind of composing. Yes,

(01:40:33):
So in that sense, he's a very interesting director. The
Belluy of an Architect is more accessible on some level,
despite it being deeply cryptic. I mean, I think the
best one of the best aspects of the film is
first of all, Brian Denney's performance. He's brilliant, absolutely brilliant

(01:40:59):
in it. And and the rome that Greenaway constructs, you know,
he this is not the rome of Roman holiday, this
is not the rome of Italian crime movies set in
that city. This is a rome which is completely in

(01:41:19):
Greenaway's head. It exists, but he selects what to show you.
You know, he doesn't linger on the Colisseum, on the Pantheon,
on Katsnavua, on the Spanish Steps. You know, he's he's
building a very geometric, very specific idea of Rome by
the locations he chooses. So in that sense, it's it's
very interesting. So you know, it's it's it's it's you know,

(01:41:46):
I think it's one of his best films. It's not
my personally, my the one, the one I connect to
the most, but it's definitely one of his most interesting films,
which was actually not appreciated by the architectural world, the
world of architects in Rome at the time, which thought
it was a bit silly or superficial, but since then

(01:42:09):
hasn't been embraced. Also also by by architects, because there's
very much about you know, what architecture means, and you
know how we can see buildings or what they're for,
and you know, what does a place mean compared to

(01:42:29):
a space, you know, inhabiting a space or structure. You know,
all these concepts which are very cryptically sown within the
within what remains of the narrative of the film, because
there's very little classic narrative is Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:42:51):
I think.

Speaker 3 (01:42:55):
It was a long way coming because there hasn't been
a really a proper release of this film for a
long time, so it's good that it's finally out there
in such alvish edition.

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
Well, whenever somebody talks about the Dream box set, that
I could imagine he's always on my short list of
directors that I wish had a proper box set, because
you could say the same thing about a lot of
his work. You know, some of it's never gotten off
of DVD, if it even had a DVD release. So yeah,
that's wonderful. Well, I'm glad you got to work on it.
And I can't wait to see that one. Next in

(01:43:29):
line is another one from Cinematograph. So they're coming out
of the year very fast. The two in January, two
and February and one in March now, so they've already
had five movies this year, which is great for justin
in that line. This is a movie that has Alan Arkins,
Sally Kellerman, Paul Apprentis. It's a really great cast. It's

(01:43:52):
a nineteen seventy two movie called Last of the Red
Hot Lovers. This has a commentary by one of your boys,
Nathaniel Thompson is on this there have you? Have you,
by a chance seen this movie?

Speaker 3 (01:44:05):
Though yes, I haven't seen it in a long long time.
I knew Nathaniel, you know, is quite a fan of

(01:44:25):
of Alan Arkin, and I mean I I haven't seen
a long time. However, I do love Neil Simon. I
love you know that that sort of the wittiness, the
the sort of momentum of his, of the dialogue within

(01:44:48):
Neil simon comedies, you know, the effort in the park
and the odd couple. And I remember if Prisoner of
Second Avenue is his, I think it is. I think
it's a Neil Simon play the film by Melvin Frank.
But anyway, there's the Biloxi Blues.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
I mean, there's.

Speaker 3 (01:45:10):
The Goodbye Girls, The Goodbye Girl with Richard Dreyfus by
Herbert Ross, so so yeah, and actually Gene Sachs, the
director is the director of The Odd Couple. So yeah, no,
it's it's a film that I'm very happy is being

(01:45:32):
released and I'd love to rewatch it because I remember
very little of it, and I think I own a
VHS somewhere as a VHS lingering somewhere, but but I
haven't definitely haven't seen it since. But yeah, you can't.

(01:45:52):
I mean not to say that there haven't been bad
Neil Simon films, but there's always something to say. Even
in the worst Neil Simon adoption or film he scripted,
there's always there's always a great line, a great moment,
you know, a micro dynamic that just works to the tee.

(01:46:15):
There's always something to be said. Oh yeah about Neil Simon.

Speaker 2 (01:46:20):
I mean, if you if you want a good time,
if you just go barefoot in the park, Odd Couple
in the Out of Towners as a triple feature, that's
I mean, like, you know, you get to see a
lot about why Neil Simon is a is such a
famous writer and a creative person. So that's yeah, that's great.
I'm excited for this one, and I have to give

(01:46:40):
credit to what Justin's building over there the Cinematograph has had.
I think they're up to release. Let's see this one
is released sixteen, which means I've seen fifteen of them
and there's only two that I haven't connected with. He
has a he's a very good curator of He's a
classic kind of maybe like slightly forgotten Hollywood films that

(01:47:02):
he's bringing attention to, or films that should have a
release and for some reason got you know, passed up.
So he's doing a good job with that label. And
this one certainly feels like it's perfectly in the line
for what he's creating over there. The last one is
from Degauser. Degaser has been on an absolute tear recently.

(01:47:24):
You know, they've had Cannibals sold out instantly, very hard
to see a movie sell out as fast as that,
and then Ice even sold out last month. I guess,
So this is the new one. It's thirty eight especial.
It's by Miguel Andjal Martinez and he stars Fernando Almada,

(01:47:47):
who's in I don't know. It must be two or
three hundred movies. And yeah, it's another movie from from
de Gauser that I'm hoping sells well. You know, it's
there's interesting. I have not quite figured out what de
Gausser is yet because they I don't know exactly what
they were trying to do with that label. I guess

(01:48:11):
they're they're saying they're all s OV, so I'm assuming
this is an s OV film, but I don't I
don't know that they were shooting a lot on I mean,
not shot on film, shot on video. Excuse me. I
don't know if this is an s OV or not,
but I'm sure it'll talk about it on the special features.

(01:48:32):
But I love this kind of renaissance of Mexican cinema
coming in and VS is certainly one of the ones
with Severn and there's a few others, but even Indicators
doing some stuff. But I'm glad that there's a little
bit of attention given to Mexican cinema because it's such
a rich history.

Speaker 3 (01:48:52):
Absolutely, I mean there's very little as has trickled to well.
I would say most of Europe, but definitely definitely Italy.
For example, when it comes to martinetes, I mean some bootlegs,
some bootleg editions here and there, but pretty much pretty

(01:49:15):
much nothing has reached Italy. So yeah, I shared the
sentiment whatever you know, shining light on Mexican Mexican cinema
all for that.

Speaker 2 (01:49:31):
There's an sense we're discussing a Mexican release. I'll give
another shout out to the Trash Mexic podcast if anybody
is not aware of that. It's a podcast dedicated to
Mexican cinema and these two guys are Mexican genre cinema specifically,
and they're blessed to listen to. You can tell they
really love it and grew up with it, and it's
a fun one to listen to.

Speaker 4 (01:49:52):
Writing on the range, I've got my hand of cars.

(01:50:19):
I want to be a Canal boy.

Speaker 2 (01:50:32):
Okay. So now that we've gone through the main Line
and partner, really the mainline and sub labels, you know, Eugenue,
as we spoke about, I think what I'll do is
kind of just go through some of the O C
N titles that also came out today on March first.
Maybe the ones that jumped out to me. As always,
I would encourage people to go look on the Partner

(01:50:53):
label site. There's a lot more that I'm not going
to talk about, just because I don't have as much
of a context for them, or you know, I just
don't know much about them. And as they're starting to
get into sixteen, seventeen, eighteen releases a month, I've forced
to become more selective in what I buy and watch. So,

(01:51:14):
as always I get something from AGVA. The interesting thing
about the one this month is it's a mixtape and
something that Brett and Joseph put together. It's a there's
five hundred minutes of content on here, and it's it's
eight feature length VHS mixtapes. So this is as a

(01:51:40):
collection of some some that have these mixtapes that have
been shared before in some capacity, and two that were
only ever available theatrically. And they're not giving away the
titles because they want it to be a mystery. But
they it's the only kind of clue they give is

(01:52:01):
it's found a hallucinogenic trip to a found footage wonder land.
That's the clue that they're giving away. They have a
commentary track with Millie de Chirico and Jackson Cooper and
Brett berg as there and then they have five hundred
minutes of mix taps. That one's already selling well. I'm

(01:52:25):
logging in at the moment. It's five hours after they
made the announcement and they've sold way more than half
eight hundred left, so that one's going to sell pretty well.
Speaking of AGFA, and you know, one of Zimba's projects
is Bleeding Skull. The movie that from Bleeding Skull this

(01:52:47):
month is called Cannibal Orgy and the Films of JT.
The Fourth. So this is an experimental horror film from
a musician JT. The Four or John Henry Timis the Fourth.
The way they describe it as an unholy alliance between
David Bowie and Charles Manson. He uses a lot of

(01:53:11):
sort of like collage imagery in his films, and so
this is a collection of a lot of his stuff.
There's two hundred and sixty eight minutes of some feature
films and some short films. And the only thing they
call out, if you happen to know a lot about JT.

(01:53:32):
The Fourth, is that there's an eighty five minute movie
cure for Insomnia that is not included, so oh sorry,
oh I'm sorry, I'm reading this on Okay, this is
kind of cool. It's it's a eighty five hour movie
that holds againness world record for the longest film ever made.

(01:53:56):
It's called The Cure for Insomnia. That one did not
make it on this release. That's too funny. So yeah,
this is a great example of why I love independent filmmaking. Yeah,
so anyways, Nightmare City is a future film and then one, two, three, four, five, six, nine,

(01:54:18):
ten short films on here. There is a j T.
The fourth historian named Robert cole manis who comes in
and speaks with Joseph Azimbell on the commentary for Cannibal Orgy.
So yeah, that is the Bleeding Skull release of the month.
It is not selling as fast as other Bleeding Skull releases,

(01:54:41):
so this one doesn't have the same panic around it
as some of the other ones, but it's still selling
pretty well. Let's see Canadian International Pictures. There's a movie
from nineteen seventy three directed by Ivan Rerightman called Cannibal Girls,
so certainly has a lot of intrigue around it. Being
an Ivan Wrightman movie. Eugene Levy's in this, Andre Martin's

(01:55:04):
in this, So it's it's a stack cast, and it's
a what's the word, it's an ensemble cast. It's a
huge cast with a lot of well known actors in
it before they kind of blew up in Hollywood. And
it's a it's a horror comedy, so it's it should

(01:55:26):
feel right in line for Ivan Rightman fans and people
that want to see early Canadian stars that are, you know,
like stalwarts now of comedy. So this is an instant
pickup for me. There's a movie that I kind of
remember when it first came out. It's a twenty eleven film.
The label that's putting it out is Music Box Selects.

(01:55:49):
It's called The Dish and the Spoon. I thought this
was a Greta Gerwig directed movie, but it's not. I
guess she stars in it, but she's not a director,
directed by Allison Agnol. But this is as an independent
film that came out in twenty eleven, and I remember

(01:56:10):
this was a I think I hope I'm not wrong
in this. I think it debuted a south By, or
at least it was shown it south By, I know,
and I kind of remember when it came to Austin
there was a lot of buzz about this one. But yeah,
this is a movie that I wanted to see for
a long time. I just didn't get around to it.

(01:56:31):
So I'm excited this came out. And I just realized
I said south By, Like everybody knows what I'm talking about.
There's a music and film festival in Austin every year
called south By Southwest that we refer to locally as
south By, and I think that's where the movie debuted,
or at least aired in twenty eleven. Connie. You know,

(01:56:55):
anybody that's heard me before knows my love for the
label Connie. They put out a movie from nineteen eighty
one called Quis Submata. This is a from director Mike
de Leon and it's a true crime story. It's a
psychological horror story, and it's it was a very popular

(01:57:19):
film in the Philippines when it came out. They has
a lot of political kind of undertones in it. This
is one that is a I'm excited by the way
to describe it because it's apparently like a very gripping movie.
So it's a very kind of like intense film to
watch with a huge payoff, So I'm excited to see

(01:57:40):
this one. I love their focus on Filipino films and
you know, like under discussed movies from like art house
films from Asia as opposed to some of the genre films.
Saturn's Core has another film this month. They're up to
forty five, which is just awesome, could you ros? But

(01:58:01):
this is the films of Lydia Lunch or starring Lydia Lunch.
And there's a movie that came out in nineteen eighty
nine and then one that came out in twenty twelve.
So nineteen eighty nine is The Gun Is Loaded and
it's set in New York and it's the way that's

(01:58:23):
described as poetic a nihilism, which is going to be
I'm sold on that just from the description. And then
the interesting thing if you go to twenty twelve, a
movie called in road Rant, I mean road Rant, excuse me,
from twenty twelve. It's an X rated cartoon or X
rated animation, and they that's in her place with like

(01:58:47):
a documentary of Lydia Lunch on tour, including some concerts
and different things from her career. So yeah, like it's
interesting that they got Lydia Lunch some movies that she's
starring in. Certainly seems like it ties into her music
career a little bit, which is good. And this seems
like a really fun pickup for Saturn's core. So begetting

(01:59:08):
that film movement Classics keeps putting out movies that I've
either seen or been wanting to see for a long time.
So twenty I mean, I'm sorry. Twenty nineteen seventy three,
there's a movie from Noka called The Oldest Profession, and

(01:59:31):
this is one I've been wanting to see for a
long time. I'm so happy that they're getting to put
out some of Tanaka's movies. This is another example. I've
said it a million times before, but I you know,
it's amazing to me that you can come on to
Vinegar Syndrome's website and by a movie from Noaka. He's

(01:59:53):
probably most famous for, I don't even know, maybe a
Village of Doom. I think of the one that he
would be most famous for. I don't know, but a
woman called sada Abbe. He retells that story. You know,
it's been told a few times. Watcher in the Attic
is one is fairly known for but he's a really

(02:00:17):
fantastic Japanese filmmaker. So I'm excited that The Oldest Profession
is I don't know if I said the title, but
the Oldest Profession, which is a story of sex worker
in Osaka. So this came out in nineteen seventy three.
It's a very kind of touching story because she's over
forty years old and she's taken care of a younger

(02:00:38):
brother who's mentally disabled. But yeah, I don't know this.
I think I'm excited for this one. There's another film
from Vinegar, I mean from film movement to classics called
Tarpon or Torpun. I don't know as much about this film,

(02:01:00):
but I'm intrigued by the way it's described. This is
another movie from nineteen seventy three. It actually stars Jimmy
Buffett and Jim Harrison, and this is a movie that's
really centered around fly fishing. And it is like a
like a long conversation between authors and then famous fly

(02:01:22):
fishermen guides. So you sit down and just sort of
like have this discussion about fishing as a metaphor in
life and art and all this. And it's recognized for
its cinematography so certainly interested in this, and it seems
like one of these quirky pieces of entertainment history that

(02:01:43):
wouldn't really get a release unless it was through something
like vinegar syndrome. So I'm happy it's getting a release,
and I hope it does well because the closest thing
I can think about in my brain as I like
as I hear about this is Fishing with John, which
is one of my favorite Criteria and releases. You get
to see the quirky humor of like Jim Lury and

(02:02:03):
all those kids that used to run with that with
that crew, and you know, Dennis Hopper has a really
funny segment in it, and so that's a I think,
an underseen part of Criterion, and if this is anything
like that, I can't wait. Not Film Movement Classics, but
Film Movement has one called Mother Couch from It's actually

(02:02:28):
a twenty twenty three release, but Ian McGregor Resafon, Taylor Russell,
Ellen Burstein, Laura Flynn Boyle, f Murray Abraham like just
a crazy cast. I'm sad I didn't get to see
this one when it came out, but there it's a
quirky promise. The Ellen Burstein plays the matriarch of this family.

(02:02:50):
She sits on a couch in an antique store and
just refuses to get off, and everybody comes in and
tries to help figure out how to get her out
of the couch, and so anyways, it just seems like
a really quirky comedy and the kind of thing that
I love, and so I can't wait to see this.

(02:03:11):
And the fact that Film Movement is even putting out
a movie from twenty twenty three means it should be
something pretty singular or pretty special, because it's not necessarily
their focus is newer movies. So I don't know how
I missed this when it first came out. If I
had read the description, I would have seen it day one.
But yeah, it's called Mother Couch. Like I said, there's

(02:03:31):
a ton of other stuff coming out. Circle Collective has
a movie called The Visitor. The Condo Log has another
movie called Sweet Dreams. There's two releases from Shutter this month,
a Spoonful of Sugar, as well as Birth Rebirth. Etry
Media has another thing that seems to look back at
action movies, like another one of these retrospective things. This
is called American Expendables. Oh, oh, I see it's specifically

(02:03:55):
looking at the production house North American Pictures. What did
I miss? Brains Media has one Core Bora, so yeah,
I think that captures all of them. Film Movement has
another film from Bruce La Bruce called Saint Nacris, and
then Dark Star has ones called Sapio Sexual and Taboo
Family Secrets. So anyways, a bunch more that I don't

(02:04:18):
know as much about or have context for that I
might try before I buy. But pretty good month for
partner releases, and yeah, I think I ended up buying
seven so far, so we'll see what I If there's
any more that get added in. If you know it
about any of these and tell me I have to

(02:04:39):
see them, feel free to leave a comment or find
me and read it or discord is somewhere. I'll uh.
I'm open to buying more if I get sold on it,
all right. Yeah, it's amazing, you know, just going through
those partner releases, I'm always struck by just how many
movies come out from the Vinegar Syndrome Distribution network every month.

(02:05:00):
It's crazy to me. Thank you for going through this
journey with me, Janie.

Speaker 3 (02:05:06):
Kay, thank you, thank you for having me it was
an interesting too. Yeah, I mean Biga syndrome, and there
labels have such I can't really think of another label
that has moves so transversely within so many different genres

(02:05:28):
and uh and film world. So it's yeah, it's they do.
They do amazing work. I mean I say that even
you know, beyond my contribution to their to their releases.

Speaker 2 (02:05:42):
No, I totally agree. And it's actually something I've been
thinking about, and I think it might be interesting to
have this discussion with you because i think Italian cinema
is a great example of what I'm about to say.
But you know, I'm drawn to a lot of art
house productions, like traditionally critically acclaimed productions, and I'm also
drawn to a lot of critically paned productions, but ones

(02:06:06):
that have something interesting to say, and ones that are
bringing a certain energy that I really resonate with, or
maybe tackling a taboo topic in an interesting way, or
you know, I think within the exploitation genre, there's a
lot of filmmakers that are actually quite intelligent and really
bring something unique to filmmaking and film history. And I've

(02:06:26):
been thinking about this idea that even within let's just
take one example of Italy. You know, I grew up
watching Fellini's pictures, and a lot of what people talk
about when they talk about Federico Fellini are like pre
eight and a half, right, That's where he was kind
of building up his reputation. And I think it's a
shame because my favorite part of his career is everything

(02:06:52):
after he burst out of that table at the end
of Eight and a half. He burst out of that
table and basically declares to the world like, fuck you,
I'm gonna go make what I want to make, which
is still one of my favorite movies in cinema history.
But everything after that, like it happens within the film,
but then he really lives into that, right. And but

(02:07:12):
before we get into the genre side and the exploitation side,
just to focus on Fellini for one second. I mean,
you know, I think it's some of the most creative
films ever made from from any director or any genre.

Speaker 3 (02:07:27):
Yeah, I mean Fellini is interesting. I mean, his his
filmography is is very coherent in many ways. I mean
the themes he touches upon and the way he constructs
his his worlds. You know, we he really starts, he

(02:07:53):
hits the ground running in the sense that I would
I would make the case that all of his films
are pure Felini. I mean, maybe if we look at
his segment in Love in the City, we see maybe
slightly less personality coming through, but generally, you know, if
we look at one of my favorite Felini's, which is

(02:08:17):
the White Chic so Chiko Banko with Beto Sordi, that is,
you know, very much that sort of hyper reality that
film film world within a film circus, sort of atmosphere
that we'll then find even in later later films, even

(02:08:42):
you know, among his very last So I would say that,
you know, he is establishes himself, especially because I mean
he came from from writing very important films. I mean
he starts as a writer working for the like of

(02:09:04):
and he's a collaborator obviously with the Rossolini, with Rome
Open City. He actually collaborates more frequently with with with.

Speaker 2 (02:09:18):
Little Selini.

Speaker 3 (02:09:19):
Even uncredited Mario Bonnard, which doesn't isn't really a name
that resonates anymore, but was an extremely important, extremely important
director going back even to the Silent era. And of course,
you know, and by the way, Rossilina I forgot. Yes,
of course there's Rome Open City. But there's also Bayiza,

(02:09:42):
which is subsequent, but just by just by a couple
of years and at forty six, So I mean he
he established himself as an incredibly important writer in a
in a number of of different genres, but but with
established all tours. Another one that comes to mind is

(02:10:04):
Pietro Jeremy, which is an incredibly important director and and
a celebrated a tour. If anybody out there you know,
I think I believe it was released by Radiance. I
didn't work on that release, but go and find by
Pietro Jeremy, which is listen moir he he. Jeremy plays

(02:10:29):
also the lead in it, and it's just an incredible,
incredible film and absolute masterpiece. So Felini established himself as
a writer early on and is recognized immediately by the
industry as somebody with an immense amount of talent. In fact,
I mean his first his first film, as much as

(02:10:50):
it's not exactly the most remembered or celebrated, but Lucia
del Barrieta, which again has that element of kind of
film and circus life as a circus and kind of
film as this distorted mirror. It's it's already there he
could erect it with Alberto la Duada, but it's it's

(02:11:10):
there's a lot of Felini in that film, and it's
a lovely little film from I believe nineteen and going
by I think nineteen forty nine or nineteen fifty anyway,
it's we're still in a very much in postwar year,
post war years, but you could you could section the
filmograph Fellinian, I would say three parts, three parts and

(02:11:35):
some you know, you get basically from his debut as
a director. So yes, indeed, late late forties, early fifties.
I don't remember exactly the film when I was released.
I think I think it was nineteen fifty, but I
might be wrong. Anyway, let's say from that to I
would say the big game changer for him was Lastrada

(02:11:56):
in nineteen fifty four, which obviously, you know, got a
massive amount of attention. It was distributed all over the world,
and of course it won an Oscar and it had
Anthony Quinn when Anthony Quinn was a starting to be
a big box office draw. It won Best I think

(02:12:18):
Best Screenplay, definitely Best Foreign Film, Best Foreign Film for sure,
and the Academy Awards. It might have just had the
nomination for Best Director and Best Best Script, So that
changes everything, both for Felini and for Deladentis, who produced
that film. I Meanentis, I could talk for hours about

(02:12:41):
I mean, I think the worldenties but extremely intelligent, genius producer.
But it's it's a game changer. And then then you know,
as much as the lastrade I I do like, it's
very it's probably Felini's most Catholic, most religious, more faith

(02:13:07):
bound film. There's there's something very catholic about that film.
So I personally, as much as I I think it's
a it's a great, great film, I I can't connect
to it as much from kind of an atheist point
of view, but that it's because it's very heavily pervaded

(02:13:29):
by this Catholicism, which is not really present in many
of a Feline's film. There's a sense of mystique and
there's definitely a sense of of of kind of yes,
powers from above. There's the sense of faith, but but

(02:13:49):
not religion necessarily in in kind of the strictest sense.
The other game changing moment for Felini is obviously Adulcevida,
which which is one of the biggest box office hits
in his career, because this is another thing Felini wasn't
actually bringing a lot of people to the cinema. There

(02:14:11):
are some big films. Lastrada la dolce vida eight and
a half wasn't entirely a flop. Amarcorde made its money
despite you know, spiraling way over budget because Vlini's films,
I mean beyond the first two, three and among them,

(02:14:33):
among them Iloni, which is another great film, also starring
at Bert to sortady like the White Cheek. They're all
extremely expensive films. I mean really, they're massive, massive blockbusters.
First because of how complex they are, I mean the sets.
He didn't he didn't care. He's the anti nuralism, despite

(02:14:55):
having begun his career as a writer within nuralism. He
he created worlds that don't exist. He believes in sound stages,
He believes in creating completely fictitious realities. Talking about society
as films do reflect very much the times, although filtered

(02:15:16):
by an extremely personal view of things and his personal imagination.
So a bit for that, and a bit because Felini
took his time. You know, there's there's this recurring joke
that you know, you can find in many interviews and essays,

(02:15:40):
especially by pen By Italian film and Stones with everybody
participated in a Felini film because he would he would choose,
he would get everybody and put everybody on the contract,
and many people don't ended up, you know, maybe being
paid for months just to you know, sit in a
in you know, next to sound stage or or in

(02:16:01):
a dressing room and then being used for thirty seconds
in a scene you know, and not even you know,
a line. But they lived. They lived for a year
on that film. So Felini was extremely extravagant. But because
of that, he really never made that many box of

(02:16:25):
his hits. I mean, ladulce Vita was probably his biggest
exception because it was a film that was so scandalous.
It was a film that promised there was you know,
there was a bit of nudity. There was, you know,
as much as there could be in nineteen sixty there
was there was you know, there was the jet set life,

(02:16:47):
I mean, the tiede the Hollywood on the time of
years had just finished literally a year two years prior,
and the via Venado years had begun, you know, and
Italy Rome specific was the center of Europe, especially when
it came to film, and so you know, literally that
captures that jet said, that glamour sort of world that

(02:17:11):
was invading the Italian capital, and so a lot of
people flocked to see that, to see that that money
glaze reality that you know, up until ten ten years
prior was was unthinkable. Also because we were, you know,
in Italy was going through incredibly despite you know, everything

(02:17:32):
it went through during the war. It was going through
the biggest economic boom of any European countries. The UK,
by by the end of the fifty was a very
poor country compared to Italy, and same I mean Germany, Spain,
I mean was under dictates, you know, but it was
under the dictatorship of Generalissimo Franco. So you know, Italy

(02:17:54):
was a very rich country with this very strong film industry.
So Felini was able to thrive, as well as many
other directors around that time, especially that between nineteen fifty
eight and nineteen sixty two. In fact, all the you know,
so many directors are making their debut around that time,
and Soltivita was perfect. They had encapsulated so much of

(02:18:19):
what was going on, and it was a big hit
because of that, but if you actually go and look
at the numbers, Felini's films pretty much are flops. They
never considered such. Also because in Italy and generally in Europe,
there's there's this idea of this the sacred rights of
the auteur. You know, for example, there's no such thing

(02:18:41):
as as a director's cut, because every cut is a
director's cut. Producers in Italy, don't you know, did not
exercise that sort of power, even the biggest producers, which
actually leads me to another thing which connects to Fillini,
which is we didn't have a Hollywood system. We did

(02:19:01):
not have a studio based system in Italy, the Italian industry,
and in many ways that actually created a problem because
it didn't have the antibodies to defend itself over time,
and you know, with everything that happened both on a
political level and with television by the late seventies early eighties,

(02:19:22):
but it was completely wild. So you get big producers that, yes,
you could you could say, you know, functioned like a studio.
You know, you get Carol Ponti, Gristalde de la Reentis
and so many others, but they were producing, you know,
across the board, all sorts of different kinds of films,
and you also noticed the lack of a hierarchy by

(02:19:45):
the fact that you know, for example, on Da Dulcivita,
I don't know how many people you know, many people
know this, but who was the the dubbing director on
that film, who started the film was Martino? Now with
better to the Martino is, you know, one of the
totems of Italian genre cinematter, you know, Holocaust two thousand,

(02:20:08):
the Chosen, the Antichrist. Yeah, the man, the man I was.
I was lucky enough to I was lucky enough to
interview him and we became very friendly, and yeah, he
was a powerhouse genre director. He would later become, but
he started with that, you know, started you know, working

(02:20:29):
with the likes of Bellini. You get the camera operators, cinematographers,
even actors, even directors in many ways not Felini, but
you know others that work transversely, you know, they do
genre films, small genre films, big genre films, massive genre films,
auto films, you know, art house, all this sort of stuff.

(02:20:52):
You know, so there's there's this level of I mean,
the biggest example I can give you is Carlo Ponti
producers by David Lean, but he's also the producer of
Torso by Central Latino. So there it's it's it's really
is in that sense, it's the reason you know, in

(02:21:16):
many ways, it's how the producers that you know, there
was there was this recurring joke of Felini basically was
a heart attack machine for producers because you know, they
would be a nightmare. You know, they spiral out of
control and you know, so much money was spent and
and they couldn't recoup it. The reason he continued being

(02:21:38):
produced was the fact that he first of all, he
was a showcase director. You know, he would win big prizes, Oscars,
he'd get you know, heiled us as a genius. So
he was a prestige director. But also they could recoup
the money in the genre films so which they were

(02:21:59):
producing by the hundreds. So that's that's a kind of
a myth, that's thing of Felini being a successful director.
He really wasn't really that successful. He was successful as
far as you know, the prestige of his films and
to this day if you go to Italy. But I mean,

(02:22:20):
this is this is something that I think it's you know,
all over the world, you know above and beyond Fillini,
but if you go to Italy, most people have not
seen Fellini's films. Everybody knows who he is. He's even
a high school with his name, the Roads with his name.
Everyone who knows Fellini is How many people have actually
sat down and watched his films bayfew.

Speaker 2 (02:22:40):
Well, he there's so much in what you said I
want to dig into. But I think there's a few things.
You know, you mentioned the White Chic, and you know,
he has those those great scenes at sea which are
sort of hyper realistic, right, and then at the end
of his career he makes the ship Sails On which
is also similarly almost like a painting at times like this,

(02:23:04):
this crazy kind of opera set on sea, but this
with a very almost like a I hate to use
this so casually, but almost like a Wes Anderson aesthetic
to it, where it's just kind of like something slightly
hyper realistic. And his themes are so consistent in all
of his movies, like you know, there's a funny theme
in the variety of lights. It opens up. His whole

(02:23:27):
career opens up with a guy on stage performing his
heart out and an audience not paying attention and mostly bored.
And I just thought that was the funniest way for
Felini to start his career because he's sort of like
his entire you know, these characters are always both artistic
and into like being clowns or into performing on some level,

(02:23:48):
but then also having this intense self doubt and intense,
you know, sort of internal demons that he wrestles with
in his movies, and and like it's on display in
the first thirty seconds of his career. So yeah, I'm
a little bit obsessed with Fellini. But so I won't
go into all the questions I have based on what
you just said, but I will say that if I

(02:24:09):
look at movies like let's take The Ship sales On
as a good example, or City of Women is one,
or Casanova certainly is one, or Roma as one, you know,
I think what he was able to do visually in
these au tour based sort of art house films that
are critically acclaimed, there's a level of and you mentioned it,
he's always going over budget and all that. So he's

(02:24:31):
on one end of the spectrum where producers are not
really getting into his business and letting him just make
these crazy visions that he wants. On the other end,
you have a lot of the genre directors, horror directors,
you know, westerns, right, or a lot of the politci movies,
Like a lot of these genre movies where I think
you have a similar sense of autour led productions, and

(02:24:54):
you know, you can kind of tell over time, you
can start to see a Bert Dolenzy picture, you kind
of can feel what it is when you're watching it, right,
these different everybody has, like are ter her stamp, even
though the budgets are different, and so I like, I
think there's some similarities that people are drawn to both

(02:25:14):
ends of this spectrum, and I think there's a way
to kind of bridge these two and say that like
they're both equally welcome to the party. Because if you can,
if you love you know, if you're more of a
horror fan, it may be boring to sit through something
like what's a good example like Knights of Cabiria, even
though there's so much beauty in that movie, it might
be like you're not used to that pace and stuff.

(02:25:35):
But if you can kind of get past that and
look at the characters and the strength, the internal strength
that she has to overcome everything that's happening to her.
And now she just bounces back with a smile as
soon as she hears music. In the end, you know,
I don't want to spoil it, but you just see
her like bouncing back and like kind of laughing and
smiling and like she's going to overcome this next thing too.
Like there's so much that that's similar to me and

(02:25:56):
has similar beats to like an action movie where you
see this character just get beat up for ninety minutes,
but like keep coming back. And so I think like
there's this tie for me between the art house films
and the genre movies, the exploitation movies that I love,
and I think it allows me to watch both. I
don't know if you think I'm crazy, but that's something
I've always felt like. There's they're not that far apart really, No.

Speaker 3 (02:26:20):
I mean, I mean the whole concept of you know,
in Italy, unfortunately for a number of reasons. First of all,
because I think the artistic filmmak, specifically intelligensia, has always

(02:26:42):
been tied to the Communist Party. So the idea of
something being made exclusively for money, something that doesn't have
a blatant artistic merit or even more, a strong political
message is something to be suspicious about.

Speaker 2 (02:27:03):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (02:27:04):
I think that was the attitude for a long time because,
you know, for anybody out there that might not know this,
Italy had the biggest strongest communist party in the Western
world after the Soviet Union, So you know Italy, you
know that there's often people refer to Italy as you know,
a very Catholic, very you know country. Yes, parts of it, definitely,

(02:27:29):
but it's it's a much more kind of layered country
than that. I would say, for example, Spain would be
definitely more Catholic than than Italy. But so there there's
always been this attempt, very clumsy attempt to kind of
take the teachings of the Carrier Lucina man applied them

(02:27:51):
in Italy. But it's never actually worked. It's always been,
as I said, very clumsy, because what was considered a
film with artistic merit was not decided upon the objectives
of the film, the goals of the film, or even
the way the film was made, but by you know,

(02:28:15):
what genre it was, what was the story, So it
was nearly preemptively decided what was worthy of virtual contention
and analysis. And what wasn't this as far as what
you know, the intelligence was considered within the industry. Now
within the industry now now nobody, nobody made these distinctions,

(02:28:40):
I mean the whole idea of what makes an a
tour and a tour and what makes you know, I
mean one could say, yes, you know, the French, for example,
don't consider John Ford, you know, a quite rightly, don't
consider him, you know, just just a you know, run

(02:29:00):
of the mill genre director. You know, make no Hooks,
Dona Daves, Alfred Hitchcock, you know, just these would all
be considered genre directors in Italy, so there's been no distinction.
This has been a big problem in Italy because you
get a world in which Sera Garne, Fernando di Leo Bucci,

(02:29:21):
Lucio Folci, de Monfilo Fidani, Massimo de la man Or,
Julio Pedroni, all these directors all mashed up with the
same label, you know, Jio Damato, Bruno Matte together with
I don't know Aldolado. But you know, all these simply

(02:29:42):
because they kind of making, you know, in a very
superficial way, sort of the same you know, working within
the same genres or playing with the same narrative or
visual elements, and so they were all labeled the same way,
where actually, no, I mean al Doolado was an a
tour tour. Absolutely, he has a very specific political view.

(02:30:04):
He brought on Butcher as much as he didn't like
the term he was an auteur. There's no question that
Butcher was an altur. If you consider au tour as
somebody with a strong personality that has a specific vision
of the world and that uses his films and shapes
his films as much as they might be puer entertainment

(02:30:26):
on some level. But Shapestill shapes these films on the
basis of how they see the world. They're an all tour.
They're filtering that story through their own personal view. These
are not mercenaries, and there are mercenaries that can be
found mercenaries, but for example, you know, they're much more

(02:30:48):
selective than we think. For example, Julia Petroni, my grandfather,
he refewed off the Westerns, He refused crime films. He
was very much left wing. He felt uncomble by films
that you know, played on social stratuses and played with
you know, the figure out the police, and he felt uncomfortable,

(02:31:11):
he refused them. Centricucci refused them for similar reasons because
he was very left wing, he was very politically conscious.
Umbert Blentzi refused until he could because then there's a
whole chapter on like the eighties when directors could not
be selective. But for example, Umbert has refused sex comedies.

(02:31:33):
They didn't like them, didn't first of all, they were
not in tune with their sensibility. But also they found
it a vulgarization of comedy that you know, a substrand
of comedy they were not interested in and went against
their values. So there is selectiveness. There is this idea
they've sold over time that you know, these these genre
these directors would do everything anything, they would know. That's

(02:31:56):
that's not true. There are a lot of genres they
refused for a whole number of reasons, not only social
and political, of course, but you know, so you know,
that's already a behavior of somebody that has, you know,
a very specific idea of what they want to do.
So there were a lot of these directors, unlike Felini,

(02:32:16):
unlike Puzzolini, unlike it's going to had to deal with
the market. But within dealing with the market, they were
doing something at times very personal.

Speaker 2 (02:32:27):
I'm just listening to you, and it's amazing because as
you talk, I was like a million questions that I asked,
how about what if we do this? I would love
to have you back on in some capacity and continue
to dive into these topics and maybe, you know, get
into another discussion around different elements of Italian cinema because

(02:32:49):
I knew this about you from listening to your commentaries
and your other interviews, but just being one on one
with you, I find there's such so easy to talk
to you, and I find there's so much to say.
I love this discussion, and I don't mean to cut
it short, but what I'm thinking of is like leaving
a cliffhanger in a way and saying, let's come back

(02:33:09):
and do more of this, because you know, as I
said at the top of the podcast, and as I
told you before we record it as well, like I
have a very personal goal of bringing a level of
credibility to genre films and exploitation films and even shot
on video films, because everything that's made is truly for

(02:33:34):
the most part. There's going to be some exceptions to
this rule, but for the most part anything that's made
from a either independently produced or where there's a tour
behind the camera or somebody who's has freedom to produce
comes from a very personal place and a very passionate place,
and I think they should be celebrated equally. So even
as you're describing that, I'm thinking of, you know, people

(02:33:55):
like Claudio Fragasso, which we haven't even spoken of yet,
but you know, what a pity that people know him
from roll too, because that guy made so many great movies.
So there's like a million directions I want to take
this would you be open to at some point in
the future coming back and we just kind of pick
it up and and we say that this is an
amazing introduction to you as on Punk Vacation, as somebody

(02:34:18):
who's not only passionate but knowledgeable and and takes Italian
cinema very personal.

Speaker 3 (02:34:24):
First, well, thank you, thank you so much for your
kind words. And absolutely I'm I'm available. I'm willing whenever,
just you know, to say the word and and yeah,
I'll be there.

Speaker 2 (02:34:41):
That's awesome. I really appreciate that. And I you know,
I know there's going to be sometimes I'll say for
anybody who's stuck around this one. Thank you for listening.
I know people are going to stick around, so I'm
just simply going to say thank you all for listening
to this. Eugenio. Thank you for bringing so much energy
and passionate, especially when you're recovering from a cold and

(02:35:01):
you've been at events all day and you've been busy,
and I just yet you still bring this amount of
intelligence and passion to the interview. So thank you very much,
and I look forward to the when we get to
speak again soon.

Speaker 3 (02:35:16):
Thanks again for having me and yeah speak soon. Absolutely wonderful.

Speaker 1 (02:35:20):
Okay, thanks you, Anay, thank you for listening to hear

(02:36:12):
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select the link in the description.

Speaker 2 (02:36:24):
Hello, this is Aaron West.

Speaker 3 (02:36:26):
I am the author of the A twenty four New Wave.
In this book, I look at A twenty four's output
and I make the argument that we are in a
new wave movement right now. A twenty four plays a
major role. This book has a supplemental podcast where each
episode is a brief conversation about an A twenty four
related topic, whether an actor, director, or even a genre.

(02:36:48):
As I continue research for the book and conduct interviews.
I expect to record podcasts episodes with people involved with
the company. You can find the podcast at Sendjourneys dot
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Episode 14 - March Announcements and Eugenio Ercolani

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 14 - March Announcements and Eugenio Ercolani