Oxford Physicist PROVES we live in a HOLOGRAM | Jude Currivan, Ph.D

In this powerful episode, we sit down with Jude Currivan, Ph.D—cosmologist, planetary healer, futurist, and author of The Cosmic Hologram—to explore the deep intersections between science, consciousness, and ancient wisdom. With a PhD in Archaeology from the University of Reading and a Master’s in Physics from Oxford University, Jude brings a rare blend of scientific rigor and spiritual insight.

We discuss the nature of the cosmic hologram and how the universe is fundamentally composed of meaningful information rather than matter. Jude explains how consciousness is not an emergent property of the brain, but a fundamental aspect of reality itself. Drawing connections to Eastern philosophies such as Vedanta and Buddhism, she highlights the growing convergence between modern physics and ancient spiritual traditions.

Together, we examine the urgent need to move beyond a purely materialist worldview and embrace a more holistic, informational understanding of the cosmos. Jude also introduces her concept of infodynamics—a revolutionary reworking of thermodynamics that reflects the evolutionary flow and organization of information throughout the universe. This is a conversation that redefines our place in reality and opens the door to a deeper understanding of who we are and why we’re here.

Please enjoy the show. 

CHAPTERS
00:55 Introduction to Jude Currivan's Journey
03:57 The Shift from Materialism to Consciousness
06:50 Understanding Entanglement and Its Implications
09:42 The Holographic Principle and Universal Non-Locality
13:06 Wave Function Collapse: A Universal Phenomenon
15:47 The Nature of Physicality in a Holographic Universe
18:54 Pixelation vs. Quantization in Reality
32:05 The Nature of the Universe: Energy and Information
33:39 Understanding Time: Entropy and Evolution
38:57 The Birth of Universes: Cosmic Heritage and Reincarnation
41:54 The Fine-Tuning of Reality: Constants and Consciousness
47:15 Fractals and the Law of Attraction: Patterns of Existence
53:00 Free Will and Collective Choices: Love vs. Fear

JUDE'S LINKS:

• Personal Website: https://www.judecurrivan.com/
• Wholeworld-View Website: https://www.wholeworld-view.org/ *
• Books: https://tinyurl.com/3udxxmwc

QTP LINKS:

• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@jaredbond33
• Website: www.quantumtheorypodcast.com 
• TikTok: @quantumtheorypodcast
• Instagram: @quantumtheorypodcast
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3vrI0zd8hf7tGIU8sgwmA9?si=4caecc0c7f564310
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/quantum-theory-podcast/id1780033559

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You'd think that all the information of that three-dimensional spherical star would be proportional to its volume,

(00:07):
so the volume of the black hole, yeah, would actually a measure of the information that's retained,
but it's not. It's proportional to the surface area of that star, which is the spherical
event horizon. Now, when that was realized, there was an a-ha moment because that's what a hologram does.

(00:35):
Welcome to the Quantum Theory Podcast.
Thank you, Jude, so much for joining us today on the Quantum Theory Podcast. I am
elated to have you on and thrilled to dive into most notably your book, The Cosmic
hologram, and really the perspective shift paradigm shift, I would call it, that we as a species

(01:01):
are undergoing in the present day, and that I'm personally thrilled to be alive during and be a part
of, and I think you are truly one of the great minds of our day that is really making this tangible,
quantifiable and empirical through your studies and through the work that you've put down. Before we
hop too deep into things, I want to just really quickly just get some background on yourself for

(01:26):
the audience and kind of your origin story of how all of this started for you. I know you mentioned
some noetic experiences at a young age that kind of opened your mind to Indra's net and this idea
very, very early on, and so I'd love to give the audience a little background of kind of, you know,
who is Jude and how have you arrived to where you are now and you're in?

(01:48):
Well, Jarrod, thanks for that. And just to say it's been a very scenic route. It has not been a
linear journey by any stretch, and I'm very grateful for that because along the way I've sort of,
you know, been so, I'm curious. I mean, my mum used to say that curiosity was my middle name.
So from a very early age, I was just curious about the world around me. And as you mentioned,

(02:14):
at a very early age, I'm four years old, I began to have what you refer to as noetic
experiences, some might call them super normal experiences, but basically I was having out of body
experiences. I was hearing discontent voices in my inner hearing. I was seeing sort of auras. So,
the whole panoply arrayed before me of a world that were not what had appeared the folks around me

(02:43):
were experiencing. I didn't realise that to begin with. It was only over time that I sort of realised
that other folks weren't, didn't seem to be experienced this. And it wasn't because I was special.
It really wasn't. What I did realise is by not sharing what I was experiencing, just having too
much fun actually. I didn't share them with anyone. I was much, much older. So nobody around me

(03:10):
said, "Oh, that's nonsense. Oh, that's just imagination." So I just carried on with this
noetic, super normal walking between world's experiences, which has been a lifetime.
Every day still. So that really was my, my both my, my, my, by beginning and my journey and my

(03:31):
ongoing exploration. So in a way, I'm so grateful for that because I grew up the daughter,
grand daughter, coal miners in the north of England. So very sort of modest upbringing,
very practical upbringing. Here as I, not telling many folks about it, but heading off into the stars

(03:52):
and beyond. But what it did was it also, the curiosity was about, well, how was when I was
experiencing bridging to this world and what I was being taught at school. And actually, what I was
being taught at school was the paradigm of a world of materialism and separation, very practical,

(04:16):
very mechanistic. And even when I went to university at Oxford and study quantum physics and relativity
physics and cosmology, they were giving deep clues into what I'd been experiencing from childhood.
But do you know, for me, the most comforting, validating sources were the ancient traditions,

(04:39):
the universal wisdom traditions, and especially that of ancient India, the Vedic tradition of ancient
India, because that was saying I was reading from a very early age that mind and consciousness aren't
something we have, then what we and the whole world are, that is in the Upanishads, that is in the
the vision of Ayurveda, and I said, yes, this is how I'm experiencing the world. So that really gave me,

(05:07):
I think, the sort of the vote to keep on going. And so the whole journey has been that continuation
of exploration. And now, as you say, I think we are in this pivotal threshold moment where we have
so much evidence that's coming forward that's converging with universal wisdom teachings and

(05:27):
indigenous traditions to literally turn the old paradigm of materialism and separation on its head.
I absolutely love that. Thank you so much for sharing. And that is the mission of the quantum
theory podcast to converge science and spirituality in those Eastern wisdom traditions. And I love

(05:48):
everything about what you just said. And it's interesting, I feel that these thinkers, such as yourself,
who have kind of gone down this road, have a foundation of experience. If you're familiar with
Federico Fajin, his story is now pretty prominent. Okay, yes. So I feel as though there are these,
there's sort of a foundation of first hand experience that gives sort of the direct,

(06:16):
I guess, window into that world. And then you can then start connecting the dots into the actual
science that's now emerging. And so I'd love just to kind of set the stage here because you mentioned it,
the really where we are with the divide of materialism and more of the oneness type of perspective,
cosmic mind, consciousness being fundamental even theories like idealism and things of the sort.

(06:42):
Where are we right now? And what is the key divide between these two worlds?
Well, I think first of all, there are a lot of scientists who of course were trained in a paradigm
of which is actually a mechanistic paradigm that goes back to mid-19th century,
before quantum physics, before relativity physics. But that paradigm was not just powerful in a

(07:07):
scientific perspective, it was very powerful because it drove the industrial revolution. So all that's
come forward really since then in terms of the way we educate our children, the way we govern
ourselves, structures, organisations, they're all really based on this mechanistic worldview.

(07:28):
And of course, it's a worldview that is essentially meaningless and purposeless. And you know,
where consciousness was always a great mystery, but was always assumed to be just human consciousness,
or a bit more beyond that, and somehow emerged through random accidental evolutionary processes.

(07:50):
So that's really what you and I would have inherited at school, certainly me,
and those of my age, that's what we were taught at school. And the point is that even the breakthroughs
of quantum physics and relativity physics, they gave us the clues, they gave us profound clues

(08:12):
that the world is not made of separate stuff, that it is about profound interrelatedness,
and to work at all, as you probably aware, quantum physics requires the entire universe
to be non-locally unified. And you're almost certainly aware too, that for decades in the late 1980s

(08:35):
and through into the 2018, it was finally able to experimentally show by entangling photons of light
in a lab with starlight from 600 light years away, and a whole cascade of entanglement triggered by
light from a quasar, a very active, galactic center, 12.2 billion light years away.

(08:58):
In 2018, that took this experimentally to cosmological levels, and that was so compelling
that in 2022, the Nobel Prize of Physics was given for universal non-locality, in other words,
a unitive universe. And you know, Einstein didn't get the Nobel Prize relativity, because it was seen

(09:21):
as being too contentious. He actually got it for the photoelectric effect. So what this is showing,
that this is settled science. Now alongside all of this, over the last sort of 20 years, perhaps
a little more, but certainly in the last few years, we've had more and more and more evidence

(09:41):
at all scales of existence across numerous fields of research that are all showing the same thing,
that our universe essentially meaningfully exists, and purposefully evolves, as a non-local
unitive entity. What is really important, I think, the scientist to have been struggling with this,

(10:02):
because I think most cosmologists are sort of pretty much over the bridge now, because they realize
that we cannot understand the appearance of our universe, its energy matter, and space time.
From that level, we have to go deeper. So just as science has always done, we've
it includes and transcends. Just as quantum physics did to Newtonian physics and relativity

(10:28):
physics did, it included and transcended. We're now in a place of inclusion and transcendence,
but we can only do that by realizing that mind and consciousness, like the Vedic tradition
showed us, aren't something we have, than what we in the whole world are. So we're now at this point,
where we can expand our perception in an incredible way that goes way beyond science,

(10:54):
and it's still accessible to science, because the reason we're able to go to this place,
and I could write the cosmic hologram, is that all the evidence was showing that if we look deeper,
beneath the appearance of our universe, we start getting answers to how that appearance comes about,
but for me more importantly, and going back to my lifelong journey, we also have a deeper understanding

(11:20):
of why our universe is, as it is. Well, that was profound, and thank you so much for sharing that.
I think that's a great segue into a bit more of the meeting potatoes here of the mechanism
and jumping into some of these different aspects of your work that you pointed out. One of the things

(11:42):
is speaking of entanglement, and I think there's a big bridge when we're talking about,
number one is going to be wave function collapse, and then we have, as you said, really coming to
grips with what entanglement means. We can measure it, we can understand it, we can give a Nobel prize,
but then there's that next step of, okay, so what does this actually implicate here?

(12:04):
I think what's really interesting as you pointed out is it works on macroscopic scales.
We have, I think, things as large as diamond studs that we are able to actually entangle.
So, what are the implications of entanglement on a macroscopic scale?
Okay, well, absolutely. I mean, certainly at the level of organic molecules, we can entangle those

(12:25):
now, but the experiment that I mentioned in 2018 was only entangling photons, but it was doing it
at cosmological scales. In other words, there was, there was sort of photons of light in laboratory
that were then entangled with starlight coming down a telescope, but emanated 600 light years away,

(12:45):
but the whole, what's called a cascade of entanglement, which far surpasses something called the
Bell's limit, and the Bell's theorem was way back a recognition of the need for universal
eye-hold universe needed to be entangled for quantum mechanics to work at all, because that cascade,

(13:06):
which passed all of the thresholds, was triggered by light from a quasar 12.2 billion light years ago.
That was so beyond any dispute that, you know, what we're talking about is universal,
non-locality is universal entanglement. The issue was for a long time, the fact that it seemed to

(13:31):
be odds with what relativity was saying. And we can understand now that it's the both and, but we can
only do that by bringing in recent understanding about what we'll continue to talk about, I'm sure,
the holographic principle and other aspects of this whole model that we can realise it's the both

(13:53):
and. So that our universe exists and evolves as a unitive as a non-local, the whole entity.
So it knows itself. It has spontaneous, not knowingness of its entirety in every moment from its
beginning, 13.8 billion years ago, as space has expanded ever since and as times flowed forward ever since,

(14:20):
it knows itself in its wholeness. And yet within space time, there is a cosmic speed limit,
which is a speed of light. And that has to be the case, otherwise, first of all, there wouldn't be
that flow of time. Secondly, there wouldn't be the causality that enables our universe to evolve.
And so thirdly, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And there's a lot of reasons why the laws

(14:46):
of physics require this. But this was the big issue because Einstein was very unhappy with the idea
of universal entanglement, he called it spooky action at a distance. He realised that there was a limit,
a finite limit to signals within space time. What he wasn't able to understand and know with the

(15:07):
quantum physicists of those times that it's a both and the wholeness of the universe and yet within it
learns about itself because of that innate flow of time, a causality that is
journeying through its entire evolutionary journey. Absolutely. And I would curious as well as a

(15:33):
more targeted question to because if we have entanglement at macroscopic scales and that's been
empirically shown, how can we also simultaneously not have information transfer faster than the speed
of light? It's really you need the holographic principle to start to understand that. And the holographic

(15:53):
principle came about from studies on black holes. And the question was at the end of a massive star's
life when it's run out of its nuclear fuel, which was actually stabilising it, its outward pressure
was stabilising it when that fuels used up the star collapses. Now if you're a small,

(16:15):
medium sized star, you just keep on going to be a white dwarf or whatever. But if you're a massive
star, then the forces are too strong, the gravitational collapses too strong to stop it. So the star
collapses and it does so three-dimensionally, it does so spherically. So spherical start begin with,

(16:36):
it falls in on itself, but a point comes where it passes a threshold, where not even light can
escape and so it becomes what's called a black hole. Now the question then is what about all the
information that was telling the story of that star, where does that go? Because if it disappears,
then quantum mechanics is out the window. It doesn't work, it just out the window. So there was a big

(17:02):
who are about well what does happen and it was discovered that the information is actually held on
that event horizon. Now this is where it gets a lot of fun because you'd think that all the
information of that three-dimensional spherical star would be proportional to its volume. So the

(17:25):
volume of the black hole would actually measure of the information that's retained, but it's not.
It's proportional to the surface area of that star, which is the spherical event horizon.
Now when that was realised and there's a measure of that called the Beckenstein bound and all
sorts of stuff, when that was realised there was an a-ha moment because that's what a hologram does

(17:53):
when you shine a beam of light at an object, a 3D object, well you split the beam and part of that beam
then reflects back off of that object, it brings back the 3D info of that object. When it's mixed with
the beam of the original beam of light, it then forms a two-dimensional patterning of that information

(18:15):
and then when you shine another beam of light through it, it projects a hologram, which is the three
dimensional appearance of that original object. Cosmologists realised we could expand and there
are lots of other reasons for saying this is heading in the right direction. We can expand that
understanding to a holographic principle, which is a universal principle, that our entire universe,

(18:42):
the appearance of our entire universe is a holographic projection from the boundary of what we call
space and time. So here we are, a universe that begins in its most minute form nearly 14 billion years ago,
as simple as it could be but no simpler, and then a space has expanded ever since and times flowed

(19:07):
forward and we can talk about how that happens, but basically there's more and more and more and more
information able to be expressed within what we call space time and manifested as what we call energy
matter. There are multiple directions I would love to take and several different questions pop

(19:32):
it up in my head, but I think the first one I feel that everyone probably will ask is how do we make
sense of physicality, given that we are in a holographic universe where information is fundamental
as you pause it. What's the translation from information into physical reality, quote-unquote,

(19:52):
in asterisk? I recall as well you mentioning that information is material and energy matter
is immaterial if I have that correct. It's more than it's both and our definition of materiality,
of course, as you say, is being based on what's physical. When we're sitting in our chairs, we're not

(20:13):
falling through our chairs, occasionally I do. I'm really good at falling off chairs.
What I would say is our universe, its manifestation, is real. That is real. But when we talk about
physicality, we're talking about solidity. That's our perception of physicality. We're solid. I can

(20:40):
do this and this and all the rest of it. When we go smaller and smaller and smaller, we've realised
a long time ago that atoms are the sort of little billiard balls of electrons and new trans and
protons and beneath that quarks. What they are are relationships of fields, quantum fields,

(21:01):
and we're now restating those quantum fields in informational terms. But the reason that reality
appears solid is that part of quantum mechanics is that those individual, so standing waves of
those interactions cannot occupy the same quantum state at the same time. And so when we have

(21:28):
electrons, they can't occupy the same state at the same time. So there's appearance of separation.
Add it to which the electrons that whizz around the nuclei of atoms or the interactions and
the relationships that we perceive in that way have the same charge and the laws of electromagnetism

(21:53):
say that like charges repel. So we have two aspects. We have what's called the Fermi Exclusion
Principle, which says that quantum entities, certainly those that make up atoms, there are other types
that can occupy the same quantum states. Those that make up what we call normal matter can't occupy

(22:15):
the same quantum states at the same time. That's why we get the appearance of separation of physicality.
And I'm not for a moment saying that because our universe is a cosmic hologram that it's no
less real, it's just the way in which universal genius cosmic mind can create such a universe.

(22:38):
So in essence, I would or you would say that it has to do largely or mostly with the
these it was poly exclusion principle or with with sorry, I do apologize. It was the
poly exclusion principle. I've had a long day. I polish. I don't mean to correct you. I'm just

(23:04):
talking about the same thing. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. That's a personal shock for myself.
So really we're really just physically repelling because we can't occupy the same state. It's more of an
electromagnetism if you will. It's about it's about and because obviously like charges also repels.

(23:28):
All the laws of physics are just so exquisitely relational and perfect to actually enable a universe
of quantized energy matter. And I would say non-quantized but in tropic space time that both are needed
and all the laws are needed to enable our universe to meaningful exist and purposefully evolve.

(23:56):
Sure. So I think this is a good segue to into the big one which is wave function collapse because we have
objective collapse. We have pilot wave theory. We have quantum Bayesianism. We have the
traditional Copenhagen interpretation. So I would love to kind of dive in there in informational

(24:19):
terms and holographic terms. How do you perceive wave function collapse? Is there a thing out there
and as you mentioned does the tree fall? It doesn't make a sound if no one there is there to hear it?
Type of thought process. What's your general perspective in this framework on wave function collapse?
Well what I would say is a go back to that analogy of if a tree falls in a forest and there's nobody

(24:42):
there to see it does it actually fall. I would invite us to consider our entire universe is both the
observer and the observed that our entire universe is essentially a friend of my as a guy called
Max Velmann. He calls it reflective monism. So in other words the entire universe is aware of all

(25:07):
that is happening at all times and then the individuated self-awareness that includes us is aware
of different aspects of that and yet we are part of we are microcosmic co-creators of the entire
universe. So that's also why we are naturally enabled with noetic phenomena, noetic experiences

(25:31):
because we are like cells in our universe as body. So when our universe which which continually
exists and evolves as a unit of entity the wave forms is its potentiality.
The wave form collapse which occurs at all scales not just you know minute scales not just it

(25:53):
is an ongoing Planck scale upwards phenomena that actually is the entire universe
existing in its in its existential entirety. So there's no there's no sort of separate
wave form there's differentiated there's differentiated wave form collapse as part of a whole sort of

(26:20):
bow wave of the universe's ongoing progression from past into the present and potentizing the future.
You know when you've seen a ship go across a lake there's a bow wave in front of it that's the best
understanding I think we have at the moment that there is that potentizing that plays out at all scales

(26:43):
within the wholeness of that universal progression that then comes into the particularization
of the here and the now. So it's in the bow wave analogy is it something to where we it's sort of
a universal phenomena that is sort of collapsing reality as we know it or do we have some level of

(27:09):
entanglement with that whatever what what is a measurement you know what what is this process of going
from infinite possibilities to quantization. Well first of all there's no infinities within space time.
Our universe itself is finite it began to find out time ago there is no manifestation

(27:31):
within space time that is infinite I mean that if you remember was what opened the door to quantum
physics because the 19th century view of electromagnetism on a black body radiator would actually
have infinite wavelengths. And clearly that's not the case. And that would lead to the the quantization

(27:54):
of energy matter that then you know realize that there was finiteness everything we actually see
a measure within space time is essentially finite. But what we're saying is with the hologram before
that fine find outness comes into its manifested form which it does so in each plank moment

(28:16):
from the beginning of our universe all the way through is like a shutter speed of our universe
and it's a shutter speed of 10 to the minus 44 seconds extraordinary. But it together with
the expansion of space and the Planck scale pixelation of information which itself is minute at minus

(28:40):
35 meters 10 to the minus 35 meters what you get is this potentiality to then manifest in the
appearance of what we call our universe but it does so finitely and the measuring point is how we
measure and that's in a sense it's not a paradox I talk about parallax because in in physics as you

(29:08):
know parallax is looking at things from a different perspective. So if we look at a particular experiment
and measure it from a particular point of parallax we'll get a particle if we measure it from a
different perspective and parallax will get away potentially but it's both and because ultimately
the universe is both and. One last question I have on this topic before I'm

(29:36):
transitioned to others just to make the best use of your time here because there's so much I want
to cover in this time here but the last thing is I was personally curious what is the key
difference between pixelation and quantization because I recall you mentioning yeah go ahead yeah yeah
well pixelation I mean the screen that we're you know conversing through is pixelated it's high

(29:59):
definition pixelation okay but nonetheless that the screen has has tiny sort of little areas with
different information within it that makes up the photo of of us yeah that's pixelation.
Quantization is where there's a quantum is is packet so within energy matter all energy matter

(30:23):
is quantized in other words it occurs as packets of information rather that notes of music rather
the continuous continuation it's literally quantized in packets and that is why and how
you know the materiality of our universe can express itself yeah and it does so very beautifully because

(30:46):
of that so the pixelation of the entirety of the appearance of our universe is pixelated at the
Planck scale and when we scale that pixelation is all the information of our universe and it's
expressed in complementary ways as quantized energy matter but it's also expressed as this ongoing

(31:11):
journey of space and time hence the whole evolutionary story and space time I would argue is not
quantized but all of the appearance comes from this tiny minute pixelation of all the meaningful
information that expresses itself in our universe and that pixelation if we look at our high definition

(31:36):
that pixelation scale is trillions of trillions trillions times smaller than our best HD technology
at the moment it's as literally as small as to an atom as an atomist of the whole universe so the way
our universe exists and evolves it requires these different yet complementary ways of expressing

(32:01):
its universal information as quantized energy matter which enables our universe to exist
and express itself and it's conserved and it changes but it can't be created or destroyed so
it just changes and then is as what I call intropic space time whereas space expands and as time

(32:28):
is flowed from the beginning what I call entropy which is the informational content of our universe
always increases that enables our universe to evolve so quantized energy matter and intropic
space time are complementary they come together to enable our universe both to exist and to evolve you

(32:54):
need both. That's a wonderful bridge into time so I'd love to just kind of open the can on this one
about really the paradigm shift of seeing reality number one as finite potentially even
toroidal which is not an aspect of what you mentioned but as this perhaps information bubble that

(33:18):
that through experience and through its evolution which we are in and also co-creating
the flow of time itself is literally the entropy of information all the way back from the big breath
and I'd love for you to just kind of lay some fundamentals for you know what is time

(33:39):
well thank I think you've expressed it beautifully Jared when we go back to the beginning of our
universe which is finite time ago it came into being at its at its smallest state but also its
simplest state now the second law of thermodynamics says that the going back to 19th century that the

(33:59):
entropy which is the energetic micro states of a a container system can only increase through time
okay so if we go back to the beginning of our universe it was at its lowest entropy so time could
only go one way from that beginning and that way is from the past all the way through to the present

(34:21):
and then to unfold into the future but what I've done is I've expanded those three laws and there are
three laws of thermodynamics to three laws of information or info dynamics and when we do that we
realise why we need three laws and we also realise that if the first law which in that thermodynamics

(34:43):
talks about the energy of a container system can change through time but it can't be created or
destroyed apply that to our universe it applies to the quantized energy matter which says the
information expressed as quantized energy matter can only change through this whole process it
can't be created and destroyed enabling our universe to exist but then you get to time and you get

(35:10):
to the second law and you get to expanding entropy and the second law of thermodynamics was all
about in 19th century about entropy it said that the entropy of a container system can only increase
through time so to talk about our universe entropy is about energetic micro states but going back to

(35:31):
a point you made earlier information is as physical as energy and we can expand as we've done the
first law into information as energy matter but we can expand energetic micro states to
information content and it's the same equation it's the same Boltzmann's equation so what we can say

(35:56):
is the entropy i-entropy information content of our universe began at its lowest level so as time
is vote forward and a space is expanded ever since that information that entropy has increased and
that enables with that flow of time in the expansion of space for the holographic

(36:20):
nature of our universe to manifest more and more experience and i'll just because for me it's a
cherry on top of the icing on top of the cake the third law the third law of thermodynamics says
that the temperature of a container system like our universe is inversely proportional to its

(36:44):
entropy so i would say inversely proportional to its entropy our universe came into being
in its lowest entropy its lowest entropy its highest temperature so space has expanded ever since
temperatures dropped as time floats forward ever since entropy has increased so it's as beautiful

(37:11):
reciprocosity that really has driven the universal life cycle and now we're you know it began at 10
to the 32 degrees Kelvin we're now at 2.7 three degrees Kelvin i would suggest that that means we're
closer to the end of this thought bubble i love what you how you described it this thought bubble

(37:33):
of our universe um you know to its completion and i also love that you refer to the big breath because
our universe did not begin in the chaos or the implied chaos that we were taught was the big bang
we know it wasn't big but it wasn't chaotic it wasn't a bang and you refer to it and i call it to
the first moment an ongoing big breath exquisite fine tune wonderfully ordered

(37:59):
purposeful meaningful that's so beautiful and i i'm curious if i i feel like this is something that
that you pause it as well in the book it is our universe our finite universe one thought bubble
in an infinite plenium of thought bubbles it where it completes the temperature drops the

(38:22):
the entropy is maximized of information there's there's no further complexity to be had
and and then from there it is perhaps you know released into the cosmic plenium is this
is this what you'd perceive the process is on the highest level yeah i do i do and and then you ask

(38:42):
well where did the baby universe has come from right and one of the the the the the i believe is
that the most intriguing suggestions with this is an extension to general relativity which is called
ecks which stands for Einstein carton kibble shama extension and denny shama who was

(39:07):
Stephen Hawking's mentor for his PhD was my mentor at Oxford oh wow and denny's love mavericks
i hope you're very proud of me by now um but it's an extension whereby it's very very complex

(39:27):
but in in really extreme cases at the very heart of black holes and possibly over and even
supermassive black holes there's an extension to general relativity which has a
terrible effect it's like a screwing effect and it may be that that is the origin of baby universes

(39:50):
that bring with them some of the past story some of the this because our universe is so exquisitely
fine tuned it does suggest it's not the first it's not its first radeo as our american friends say
but there is a sense of of heritage and almost like a reincarnation of complex a potential for greater

(40:14):
complexity that we could actually consider the possibility of being on on universal scales
even like cosmic epigenetics if you will yeah because i love that cosmic epigenetics and you know
my my follow on book from the cosmic hologram was this was the story of gaiya and that really

(40:34):
tells this story the whole evolutionary story of ours and and our story is a story of our universe
so you know that story i i feel is so empowering because we can read where people who i hope read the
cut read you know the story of gaiya really feel come to feel that we belong this is we belong here

(41:00):
we have meaning of purpose i was profoundly shifted by that section of of at least the cosmic hologram
with the fine tuning i mean talk about mind blowing the different uh principles and and like the
different forces that are so unbelievably fine tuned to allow even different elements to emerge and

(41:22):
and i'd love for you to sit touch on just the the sheer fine tuning of the reality in which we
live in the the utter impossibility of of randomness of of of what the beauty of this cosmos is
absolutely well you know there are various measures of this there are there around six fundamental

(41:44):
universal constants a martin reese who has um has done a book on this called six numbers basically
but when you look at those and and see what would be different if any of them were as tiny
stage different from what they actually are and it works out something like one intent to the 27

(42:06):
i think Lee Smolian came up with that figure but it's a thousand trillion trillion times one two
a thousand trillion i mean it as you say it it is my problem but but when you look at the laws of physics
i mean if you don't understand that mind and consciousness are what we have they're literally
what we in the whole world are quanta physics is a mystery but when you do understand that it's a way

(42:31):
in which the potentiality of consciousness can express itself and manifest itself it is very
straightforward and what we find as well in the basic laws of physics they are incredibly simple
e equals mc squared e equals h new you know um gravity f equals gm1m2 over r squared these are not

(42:58):
wrath of equations they're very incredibly simple on the reason that they are so simple able to
be so simple is because that exquisite fine tuning you know with electromagnetism we've now
measured space to be pretty it has to be flat because first of all otherwise electron magnetism

(43:22):
could not work in its orthogonality in other words a magnetic field goes one way the electromagnetic
field is 90 degrees to it and the light goes 90 degrees to that exactly not a bit of a fudge
when we are taught geometry at school we learn Pythagoras we learn about triangle

(43:45):
and we learn about the 180 degrees and we learn about you know the relationships between the
sides of triangles there's a very straightforward way of taking you you know that that space
euclidean space of a triangle with 180 degrees which is on flat paper because if we curve the paper

(44:06):
a triangle has more or less than 180 degrees but on flat paper a triangle has eternal angles
the total 180 degrees there's a way of moving that into what's called Hilbert space which is a sort
of slightly more sophisticated way of working with space to understand the relationships of energy
matter and you can go from Pythagoras to Einstein equals mc squared e equals mc squared only

(44:34):
if space is flat only if space is flat and the final thing and this is the big give away as
well is throughout quantum mechanics and also relativity but quantum mechanics is the biggie
Schrodinger wave equation and all of the equations are pervaded by and holographic

(44:58):
principle is pervaded by something called i the square root of minus one and that we're realizing
there's not just a mathematical nicety it really is the foundation between the appearance of what we
call our universe and it's underlying causation it's causing they literally it arises from what some

(45:21):
folks call phase space but that is that non yet manifest you're talking earlier not yet manifest
realms of causation that then come into the manifest universe and so i the square root of minus one
is that sort of mathematical mode by which that transfer that that progression from what we

(45:49):
might call immaterial to material actually takes place so all of these hand together beautifully
but only if you know if they share all of these features wow and that's a perfect segue to the idea
fractals which i have been very excited to talk about but in terms of the in terms of the the complex

(46:11):
plane and you pointed out the Schrodinger wave function should go on infinitely but we know the
universe is finite also from looking at the cosmic microwave background there is a limit on on the
wavelengths as you pointed out absolutely no there there is a finiteness to it but yet obviously
that's not what we experience in finite reality so there's that there's that translation from the

(46:34):
complex you know as you said the potentiality the immaterial or super physical to the you know
physical always an asterisk but exactly and that yeah ultimately the infinite is an eternal cosmic
plenum to that finiteness of this thought bubble we call our universe i love that and and so

(46:55):
when it comes to fractals one thing i was wondering about is the law of attraction because as you
talk about fractal attractors and and and even pre cognition and super normal phenomena
of sort of being able to non locally perceive information as it's sort of crystallizing perhaps

(47:16):
in the complex plane you know before it becomes an act potentializes into physical reality do you
do you think there's any connection there between the law of attraction and and kind of what you
put out and how you're able to actually crystallize and potentiate into reality i would and i wouldn't
sort of oversell it either i mean the laws of physics are the laws of physics i might have the

(47:42):
intention that i'm going to become the hang gliding champion of the world it ain't going to happen
Jared i have to tell you this but yes indeed because we are microcosmic co-creators of the macrophosmic
sentence of our universe and therefore we do have naturally natural attributes of of awareness

(48:05):
that are non local in in that regard but just to go back to your point on fractals for those folks
who are listening to us and aren't sure what a fractal is it's basically a relationship
and in the ancient Greek geometers were were wonderful in the fact they had something to write with
and something to create a straight line with and they included profound truths about the innate

(48:31):
relationships of our world and so when we look at the platonic solids and when we look that they're
essentially idealized fractals and fractals are realistic platonic solids in that regard in other
words when we look at a cloud we're not seeing a triangle but if we actually analyze the outline of a cloud

(48:53):
you know it we can actually subdivide triangles into more and more and more and more and more detail
and and they are fractals or we can take fractals to their end point idealism and we end up with
with a triangle I mean that's very straightforward but what it's showing is that the entire to our
universe plays out through innately through relationships and interdependent relationships and the

(49:18):
point about a fractal just as it does for a triangle it scales up and it scales down so when we
when we when we look at the evidence of the cosmic hologram we see it all scales of existence because
we're seeing fractals at all scales of existence when a metal atom is moving to become an insulator

(49:42):
vice versa it's electrons cluster fractally we can see fractals all the way up to planetary systems
we see them in the solar wind and and and planetary orbits we see them galactically we see the same
fractal relationships as you mentioned in the cosmic microwave background in the temperature
differences there so we're seeing them all the way up and all the way down and they are indicative

(50:07):
also of of Fourier transforms and Fourier transforms are a mathematical bridge that actually
underpins the holographic technologies so we're seeing so many things pointing in the same direction
and across numerous fields of research so underlying complex systems whether it be the an ecosystem

(50:33):
or the internet are the same fractal patterns we're seeing the same power law relationships between
frequencies of phenomena and and their scale that we do earthquakes and conflicts and human conflicts
so what we're seeing throughout not just natural systems but human choices collective human

(50:56):
choice and behaviors is this underlying causation and the all pervasiveness of consciousness
so going back to the law of attraction we're essentially playing out conflicts in the world
because we have a world of your separation collectively we have a dis-ease of separation

(51:19):
we can create if we've got a tractor pattern and the laws of attraction in that sense
or we're behaving in conflictual ways in in equitable ways we can create a tractor pattern
for love and a tractor pattern for peace

(51:40):
so that for me is our choice now do we stay in this old world of your separation
a fully-to-fear or do we as I truly believe we have the capacity to and the invitation from the
universe to literally paint a love and undertake a conscious evolution that I feel is our opportunity

(52:07):
our invitation and the reason we're here
absolutely and and people just like you are providing the evidence so we can all really see I think
through the rational mind I think is really the key I think that's what's going to make this so
accessible is even talking about fractals I mean that's a slam dunk to holographic principle I mean

(52:31):
it's self-similar I mean the hole is contained in the part and the the the the the fractality of
reality is so obvious just from the evidence that you've put forward alone and I had one other
question to follow that up here is you know what does this say about free will and more specifically
with Benford's law and Zipz Zipz law where we have fractal patterns for I wrote a few things here

(52:59):
such as Twitter users to follow a ratio street addresses corporate sales versus costs stock prices
population densities galaxy formations and even to the words we say follow these numerical patterns
and it it almost feels like one big mind like playing itself out but you know what does that say

(53:23):
about free will fits that codeable our behavior through the internet through stock markets whatever it
might be you know what what is that indicate about our individual choice I I'm a I'm a it's
interesting I'm a both-and person whenever it's an either raw choice I go what am I missing here
and just as now we can say that you know relativity physics and quantum physics a complementary

(53:49):
energy match and space time a conflict we need both and I would say that collectively all our choices
together form Zipz law they form all of the the the the the phenomena that you identified
but the entirety of our universe the holds and this is the beauty of it is each is also playing

(54:10):
out through each of us and so in that sense I do fit my view is that we do have free will but not in
the complete sense of being separable we are inseparable and yet we are unique expressions
and we are self-aware individuated microcosmic co-creators yeah but when we come together

(54:37):
then that totality because we're working at so many levels of consciousness Jared
and when we talk about free will it's not just the level that we're aware of it's that subliminal level
so a lot of our choices are also that subliminal level and I think it's primarily those choices
that we can we can see playing out in these collectives so I think it's a both-and the question I would

(55:04):
say is a question I would ask is what are we choosing at the moment are we choosing fear or are we
choosing love and I would suggest that we have a free will choice in that regard and on a personal
level I choose love I would also say that the evidence we have because of its wholeness and its

(55:29):
inseparability and yet its differentiation and its meaning existential meaning and evolution
purpose is I describe our universe not just as a living universe but as a loving universe
I love that and I think that's that's a lovely way to conclude our conversation and before we do so

(55:52):
because I know we're coming up on time here is I would love to give the audience just a couple
minutes here if you want to share where they can find you such as maybe a couple of your books
maybe if you have a website you want to share and I'll drop everything in the description as well
oh that's so kind of you I think the easiest thing is just to offer a website which is www

(56:12):
whole whle world wrld hyphen-viewvew.org and on that we've got links to my books we've got lots and
lots of free resources around everything and new latives science and all of this we've also got a
link to a recent film which is called a radical guy to reality which is 14 minutes long it's free

(56:39):
to view and free to share on youtube and it's in 19 languages at the moment from Arabic to Ukrainian
and we're just adding another one Bengali so and more so but you know and we also on the website
we have an education wraparound so glossary of terms and things like that and invited

(57:01):
experiences so there's a whole range to an invitation to cup home and come to this adventure
that's so amazing thank you so much dude for for all of your wisdom and your time today
it's been an absolute pleasure and maybe perhaps need a round two because I still have a lot of

(57:22):
questions but I would love round two I would love round two and maybe on round two we could talk about
the story of Gaia because when we talk about the evolutionary story I mean you talked about blowing
a mind my goodness me that takes it to a whole next level yes I would love to and talk about
pan spermia and all and all of that stuff so all of that stuff yes awesome jude we'll talk offline

(57:49):
about that I want to get you on to your next next meeting here but thank you so much again jude and
have a fantastic rest of your day oh bless you jara thank you so so much for there all right take
care bye bye add to bye bye thank you for tuning into this episode of the quantum theory podcast if
you desire to embark on the path of self mastery visit quantum theory podcast dot com the

(58:12):
join a like-minded community of purpose seekers committed to personal growth.