Former KGB Agent Yuri Bezmenov Explains How to Brainwash a Nation Using Ideological Subversion

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
One world currency. I imagine thatright now you're feeling a bit like Alice
tumbling down the rabbit hole. Letme tell you why you're here. You're
here because you know something. Whatyou know you can't explain, but you

(00:25):
feel it. You felt it yourentire life, that there's something wrong in
the world. You don't know whatit is, but it's there, like
a splinter in your mind, drivingyou mad. It is this feeling that
has brought you to me. Thisis your last chance. After this,
there is no turning out. Youtake the blue pill. The story end,

(00:45):
you wake up in your bed andbelieve whatever you want. You take
the red pill. You stay inWonderland, and I show you how to
beat the rabbit hole dolls. AllI'm offering is the truth. People,
When we are opposed around the worldby a monolithic and roomless conspiracy and relies

(01:07):
primarily on covered themes for expanding itssphere of influence, on infiltration instead of
invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice,
on guerrillas by night instead of armiesby day. It is a system which
has been scripted vast human and materialresources into the building of a titman myth

(01:30):
highly efficient machine that combine military,diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific,
and political operations. Its preparations areconcealed, not published. Its mistakes are
buried, not headlined. Its descentivesare silenced, not praised. No expenditure

(01:51):
is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. But I
am asking your help and the tremendoustask of informing and alerting the America people.
And now welcome to another episode ofDown the rabbit Hole. Here's your
host. It's Popeye. Ladies andgentlemen, Welcome to another live edition of

(02:17):
rabbit Hole Radio. I am yourhost, Popeye. It is Saturday,
the twenty third of March. Man, where did the time go already?
How is it the twenty third?Anyway, this year seems to be blowing
by pretty quick. So tonight Iwanted to take two hours to broadcast what

(02:45):
I was originally going to broadcast lastweek, and then kind of the last
minute, I got together with theFreedom Link crew, or two of the
three of the Freedomlink crew, Kenand Joe came on and hung out,
and I had wanted to play thefull length interview of Uri Besmian off with

(03:07):
g Edward Griffin from nineteen eighty four, which I'm going to get into,
and we just there were so manythings and the conversation was great, kind
of free flowing. We didn't havetime to get into it while I was
on in the first two hours,and we ended up streaming for about four
and a half hours, and KenJoe hung Joe and Ken hung out with

(03:28):
me for about two and a halfand then they they hopped off, and
I did end up playing the fulllength interview with Uri Besmian off, but
by that time we were already onlyin video mode, and the radio listeners,
you know, the for the audioportion, didn't get a chance to
hear it. And I didn't wantthis interview from forty years ago to be

(03:51):
muddled down and caught up with afour and a half hour live stream because
people might be tuning out and tiredout at the end of two hours,
you know. I mean, wehad a great listener retention on the live
stream, but still archiving it,passing it around, getting it in front

(04:12):
of other people's eyes to watch.They're not going to want to listen to
our banter for two and a halfhours before we get into playing the video
so I wanted to take two hourstonight, and I'm going to keep it
trickly to two hours. That way, it'll be in the archives available over
in KGIRA, audio video everywhere,and it'll be short, sweet, to

(04:33):
the point. It's just going tobe the interview tonight with g Edward Griffin
and Uri bezmianof Now. Uri wasa KGB subversive. He worked with the
KGB and he was stationed in Indiaand his cover was that of a journalist

(04:55):
and he gets into all that ininterview and it's it's that's why it's important
to see this full interview. YuriBesmianov has been in the i would say,
not mainstream news, but in themainstream stream of consciousness, so to
speak, as of late, andhis rise back into that came in twenty

(05:23):
twenty, and that was because intwenty twenty, it's acting. I think
it's Activision that does Call of Duty. Still. They released Call of Duty
Special Ops, the second edition,and it was like the Cold War and

(05:43):
the game. I actually have thevideo game. I am still a gamer
somewhat. I play once in awhile while I've been recovering from surgery on
and off over the past year anda half, multiple surgeries, you know,
first couple in days you can't getout of bed. It's good to
gut keep your mind off things,and tire your brain out. But I
haven't played in a while, butI do actually have the game that he

(06:08):
was featured in in the trailer.So the trailer for the game has Uri
bezmiinof in it talking about ideological subversion, and that kind of thrust him back
into the mainstream view he was around. I would say like twenty eleven,

(06:30):
twenty twelve, I, you know, myself and others were putting out the
original full length interview on YouTube,and there was a group Freedom Minded organization,
and I don't remember the name ofthe group that put it together,
but they took the full hour andtwenty one minute interview with Uri and they

(06:54):
cut it down into about eight minutesof the bullet points, which is good
because back then when they did it, the attention span of most people was
not too long, so you hadto do things like that. You know,
long form is more popular now becauseof Joe Rogan and helped to bring

(07:20):
long form radio, long form podcastand interviews back fifteen years ago, twelve
years ago, i'd put out longform interviews I did. I'd put out
long form radio shows I did,and it'd be hard to get people to
stay for the full two hour video. The just attention span wasn't there.

(07:45):
That's been done on purpose. That'sa whole side issue, but that's been
done on purpose. So this eightminute distilled version from an hour and twenty
one minutes to eight minutes, youknow, like the cliff note bullet points.
It's a great video snippet and I'mgonna actually use it as an introduction
to the full length interview in asecond here. But we've gone from that

(08:07):
to now it's you know these YouTubeshorts or reels or whatever else you call
them on different platforms, but they'reall sixty second videos. And I've seen
different videos about Uri Besmanov, butit it doesn't have really a lot of
context in it. It's sixty seconds. People edit it together and get it.
They some of the people that didit did a great job of trying

(08:28):
to jam a lot of info intosixty seconds. But you're gonna lose so
much nuance in understanding. You can'tpossibly explain such a complex issue as ideological
subversion in sixty seconds. You can'treally explain it properly in eight minutes,
so I it's better to see thefull hour and twenty one minute interview.

(08:52):
The first like ten minutes is Yuriexplaining about his father, his father's involvement
in the government, and then youknow, his job in the government,
what it was like growing up ina communist country in the Soviet Union.
Okay, he lays all of thisout. He goes over some history that
Americans might not know or might notunderstand, or have been propagandized either two

(09:16):
like four or against. So heputs some interesting factual information in there.
And I remember this video was shotwith Geo Griffin in nineteen eighty four.
This was shot forty years ago.And as you're listening to this tonight,
I want you to think about whatYuri is saying, and think about all
the crazy stuff that's going on rightnow. There's a reason that you've got,

(09:39):
you know, BLM being allowed toburn things to the ground and rioters
being allowed to burn things to theground during the Summer of Love and then
calling it peaceful protests. And youknow, anybody that defended themselves, people
that actually defend themselves against the rioterswere arrested, Antifa rioting Antifa showing up

(10:01):
to like peaceful protests and attacking theprotesters on the quote unquote opposite side,
and that being okay, No onecares. The push to sexualized children at
such a young age, to normalizepedophilia, The push to allow your children

(10:22):
at a you know, even prepubescent age to decide what gender they think
they are, doesn't matter what theybiologically are, what they want to identify
as, you know, The pushto let your kid they want to be
a blade of grass or unicorn orWinnie the pooh Oh. That's fine,
let's encourage that. The straying fromnormalcy on such a grand scale in the

(10:50):
last few years alone seems very crazy. Doesn't make any sense to most people,
because most people are trying to thinkin a logical base the world where
everything is linear and they don't reallyunderstand how things really work. A lot
of people are still plugged into thematrix. They don't get it. They're

(11:13):
so dependent on the system that theyjust it's hard for them to break away
from that system. They don't understandwhat's going on. They realize that something's
amiss. I mean, before thearm Dart fiasco. It was harder to
get people to see this, butthat whole thing, the push for all

(11:33):
this tyrannical power by all these pettytyrants in governments, whether it be federal,
county, local, doesn't matter.That woke a lot of people up.
That really hit home for a lotof people. The way that that
whole thing went down, the wayit was handled, the way the vaccines
were forced on some people, thatall of that hit home. So people

(12:01):
are paying attention now, and thensince then, it's all this crazy stuff
that I just mentioned, and that'swe're told. We're being told by the
media and the government that that's allnormal, and you're crazy or a racist
or you know, phobic of tendifferent types of varieties if you don't think
that all of this crazy is normal, all of this chaos. Remember the

(12:26):
motto of the Illuminati, And that'sreally for lack of a non overused pop
culture reference now, and that's donpurpose the Illuminati used to People used to
even laugh if you said that name. Oh, they don't exist. Now

(12:46):
it's very prevalent in pop culture.Because there was so much evidence that it
did exist, they had to makeit a meme. So that people wouldn't
really pay attention to it. It'slike anything else now in pop culture.
It's just it's almost like a popcult which are fad to a degree to
say the word illuminati, but theydo exist. So those people, their
plan, their motto is ordo abko, order from chaos. You know,

(13:11):
in the back of the dollar bill, it says annuit coeptis novus ordo
sichlorum. Annuit coeptis means our enterpriseis a success, this new world order.
So annuate coeptis, our enterprise isa success. Novus ordo sichlorum,

(13:35):
this new world order. That's whatit says in the back of that dollar
bill. What do you think they'retalking about when they're talking about new World
Order? They're not talking about currently. And it's funny because if even ten
years ago, if you had saidnew World Order in the mainstream, people
would make fun of you. You'dcall you a conspiracy theorist. And even
though there were world leaders ten yearsago that were openly talking about it.

(13:58):
I mean, George H. W. Bush talked about it in ninety one,
but that doesn't matter. You weremade fun of. But now in
the past ten years now again,new World order. You hear it constantly
being mentioned by world leaders. Youhear it brought up in speeches, you
see it in articles written about politicsworldwide. Interesting how they keep using that

(14:20):
term more and more and more becausethey're trying to get you to accept it,
trying to normalize it in your brain, in your vernacular. And the
only way to bring about a newworld order is to completely destroy the old
world order the way we currently dothings. That's why they want to foment

(14:41):
chaos. Ordo ab chao, orderfrom chaos. They're going to create the
chaos, and then they have theagenda, problem, reaction solution. They
already have the solution, so theycreate the problem. They wait for the
people to clamor for the government tocome help them, because that's what humanity,

(15:01):
especially the last one hundred years atthe very least, have been bred
to look to daddy and mommy governmentto come save them every time there's a
problem. It starts in our childhood. First, we're taught to look to
our teachers to solve every problem.Don't look within ourselves or try to handle
things on our own. Always lookto the teacher to solve every little problem.

(15:22):
When you're older, it's look tothe policeman, or look to your
mayor, or look to your governmentofficial, state, county, federal.
Always look to somebody to come saveyou. Look for the hero, wait
for the hero. Not you're thehero, Not you are the change.
Go be the change that you wishto see in this world. No,

(15:43):
they don't tell you that. Theydon't tell you that you are the heroes
that you've been waiting for. Ladiesand gentlemen, they don't tell you that.
But what they do tell you isthat you need to wait for somebody
else to come rescue you. Andto look for somebody to come rescue you.
They create the problem. They waitfor the people to call for the
rescue. That's the reaction and thesolution was their agenda all along. They've

(16:10):
done it time and time again,time and time again. Problem reaction solution.
Nine to eleven was a perfect exampleof that problem reaction solution. They
already had their agenda. The Projectfor an New American Century wrote a white
paper about a year and a halfbefore nine to eleven called rebuilding America's Defenses,

(16:33):
and they basically wanted to have likea packed romana and turn the American
military into what it is today.But they knew they couldn't do it,
and I quote without a catalyzing eventlike a new Pearl Harbor. And then
at least half the people that wereon the project for a New American Century

(16:55):
group that came up with this whitepaper just so happened to be the Bush
administration a little over a year later, when nine to eleven happened, And
what did Bush call nine eleven thatnight and for days afterwards, and the
news media picked it up. Theycalled it this generation's Pearl Harbor problem reaction

(17:21):
solution. And we see where thatgot us twenty three years later? Where
did that get us? Didn't sendus off in the right direction, didn't
send us off on a good path. I could tell you that. So
anyway, I want to get intothis because I got it. You know,

(17:41):
we're short on time and I wantto make sure I get everything in
here. So first things first,I want to bring up a screen window
that I have here. This isWikipedia. And I know Wikipedia is not
the arbiter of truth, right,but as crappy as Wikipedia can be,

(18:03):
there's also some information that can bepulled from it. It is important in
this case is a little section thatthey have about Yuri's legacy and it says
since his death. Besmanov's Soviet subversionmodel has been studied and interpreted by faculty
and staff the Joint Special Operations Universityto analyze historical events, including the decade

(18:26):
long Russian campaign that preceded the twothousand and eight Russio Georgian War. His
work has also been cited by seniordirector of UPenn's Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy
and Global Engagement and former Deputy AssistantSecretary of Defense, Michael R. Carpenter.
His lectures have also been used byYale senior lecturer Asha raangapah to Illa

(18:49):
and I think I said that correctlyto illustrate the concept of active measures in
the Soviet Union's suppressed different disinformation supposed, I should say disinformation campaigns in the
United States. On August nineteenth,twenty twenty, Besmanov's nineteen eighty four interview
discussing discussing active measures with a journalistG. Edward Griffin was used in the

(19:10):
teaser for the video game Call ofDuty Black Ops Cold War, in addition
to its use in main introduction.On August twenty sixth. This is in
part contributed to renewed interest in bothBesmanov's work and lectures. So not only
he was in the it's in thebeginning of the game. He's there when
you start the game, in likethe cinematics and stuff, and also in

(19:34):
the trailer for it, there's aclip of him that they used, and
you could probably just go on YouTubeand look up just look up Call of
Duty Black Ops Cold War trailer andyou'll hear the clip that they used in

(19:55):
there. It's a very short clipfrom the interview, but you'll hear him,
you'll hear your voice in there.So that did, like I said,
it kind of brought him back alittle bit into at least the mainstream
sphere so to speak. People probablyjust thought it was I'm sure there's a
lot of people that just thought itwas a cinematic for the game. Some
people probably looked into it, andof course there were people in the gamer

(20:18):
community that were like, oh,this is real. But again, not
enough eyes on the full interview,and the full quality interview for the most
part, has been ripped from YouTube. It's you can still find a copy
here are there, but it's hard. Some of them are really horrible quality
because this interview was shot forty yearsago, Okay, so it was like
the VHS and then transferred to probablya DVD and then digitized. So the

(20:45):
one video I'm going to play,the eight minute snippet that's gonna set everything
up that I'm about to play,is it's a little pixelated, but it's
it's clear enough. I'm gonna haveit, you know, properly proportioned so
it's clear. But the full lengthinterview is the highest quality one I could
find, So I'm gonna full screenthat one for you when I play it.

(21:06):
So anyway, the point is hisinterview, his work after he came
over here and defected over here fromthe Soviet Union, and his lectures about
ideological subversion are so important that youhave the Joint Special Operations University studying it.

(21:27):
You have again you pens pen BidenCenter for Diplomacy and Global Engagement.
You have former Deputary Deputy Assistant Secretaryof Defense, you have Yale professors,
So you have all these different peoplestudying URI's work. Now they can sugarcoat

(21:51):
and say, well, the reasonthey're doing it is because they want to
learn about history. And they wantto learn about this that. And the
academics, probably true, academics lovehistory, love learning and taking and knowledge
and stuff. But the military JointSpecial Operations, they're studying this not just
because we have to be prepared tofight the Ruskies, because Russia today is

(22:17):
not the Soviet Union of forty yearsago when Besmanov did this interview. It's
a different place, very different.Okay, that we could get into it.
I don't want to get sidetracked withpolitics in Russia now and versus forty
years ago, but it's a verydifferent place, and they're more Americanized.
Charlotte Izerby and I talked about howduring the Reagan era things were being switched

(22:40):
and we were being turned more intothis communist Soviet country and Soviet Russia was
being more americanized. Go back,go to rabbit Hole Radio and Rumble.
It's my Rumble account, and lookthere for the interviews I've done with her,
and I'm going to be airing theother ones that have gotten censored,
re airing all that stuff, someof the other interviews I've done with her.

(23:03):
And also I want you to rememberone thing going into this. When
you hear Marxism, Communism, Leninism, all that stuff. I want you
to think one thing I want youto think. I want you to think
of illuminism, the Illuminati, theworks of Adam weiss Hop. Okay,
the reason I bring that up isbecause communism is illuminism. Communism was the

(23:27):
work, the writings, the workof Adam weiss Hop, taken about one
hundred years later, a little overone hundred years around there, give or
take, and by a group calledthe League of the Just, and they
rewrote it a little bit, twerkedit and put Karl Marx's name on it.

(23:48):
And that's, you know, theCommunist Manifesto by Karl Marx. It's
actually illuminism goes back to the BavarianIlluminami, the Bavarian Illuminati, and Adam
Weisshap otherwise known as Spartacus, thatwas his code name. So and it's
a whole separate rabbit hole. Butthe point is when you think of when

(24:10):
you hear the words communism or Marxism, I want you to think illuminism.
So you understand, communism is illuminism. This is all controlled by the very
same people at the very top.So I'm going to bring up this interview
with the snippet first, the oneI want to use as the intro,

(24:36):
and then I am going to bringup the let's do this bring you up.
This is the intro snippet I wantto play, and this is like
the bullet points where Yuri gets intoit. And then I'm going to play
the full interview for you. Butagain this is important to pay attention to
because again the military is not payingattention to this to fight Soviet Russia.

(24:59):
They're paying at ten to this sothey can learn how the Soviets did things
back in the day, how theyused this ideological subversion to topple countries.
They're not trying to combat it.They're trying to learn it and absorb it
into their own playbook, and it'sbeing used against us right now to this

(25:21):
very day as we speak. Rememberthis interview was forty years ago, and
he's talking about all this stuff goingon forty years ago. Think about what
has happened between nineteen eighty four andnow and all the crazy stuff, ladies
and gentlemen. So here we go. Here's the beginning. Here's the first
eight little eight minute snippet of g. Edward Griffin and Uri Besmianov, where

(25:45):
it covers the bullet points of theinterview, and then we're going to get
to the full length interview. Sohere we go. Our conversation is with
mister Yuri Alexandrovitch Besmianov. Mister Besmianovwas born in nineteen thirty nine in a
suburbs of Moscow. He was theson of a high ranking Soviet Army officer.
He was educated in the elite schoolsinside the Soviet Union and became an

(26:08):
expert in Indian culture and Indian languages. He had an outstanding career with Novesty,
which was and still is, ishould say, the Press arm or
the press agency of the Soviet Union. It turns out that this is also
a front for the KGB. Heescaped to the West in nineteen seventy after
becoming totally disgusted with the Soviet system, and he did this at great risk

(26:33):
to his life. He certainly isone of the world's outstanding experts on the
subject of Soviet propaganda and disinformation andactive measures. When the Soviets use the
phrase ideological subversion, what do theymean by by the logical subversion? Is
the process which is legitimate over andopen you can see with your own eyes.

(26:56):
All you have to do, allAmerican Masvidia has to do is to
unplug the bananas from their ears,open up their eyes, and they can
see it. There's no mystery,there's nothing to do with espionage. I
know that espionage intelligence gathering looks moreromantic. It sells the orderance through the
advertising. Probably that's why your Hollywoodproducers are so crazy about James Bond type

(27:19):
of thrilleries. But in reality,the main emphasis of the KGB is not
in the area of intelligence at all. According to my opinion and opinion of
many de factors of my caliber,only about fifteen percent of time, money
and manpower is spent on espionage.As such, the other eighty five percent

(27:41):
is a slow process which we calleither ideological subversion or active measures actively miropriatia
in the language of the KGB,or psychological warfare. What the basicallymians is
to change the perception of reality ofevery American to such an extent that,

(28:03):
despite of the abundance of information,no one is able to come to sensible
conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their community, and
their country. It's a great brainwashingprocess which goes very slow, and it's
divided in four basic stages, thefirst one being demoralization. It takes from

(28:27):
fifteen to twenty years to demoralize thenation. Why that many years because this
is the minimum number of years whichrequires to educate one generation of students in
the country of your enemy exposed tothe ideology of the enemy. In others,
Marxist Leninism ideology is being pumped intothe soft heads of at least three

(28:52):
generations of American students without being challengedor contrabalanced by the basic values of Americanism
American patriots. The demoralization process inthe United States is basically completed already for
the last twenty five years. Actually, it's over fulfilled because demoralization now reaches
such areas where previously not even Comradeand drop Off and all his experts would

(29:18):
even dream of such a tremendous success. Most of it is done by Americans
to Americans thanks to lack of moralstandards. As I mentioned before, exposure
to true information does not matter anymore. A person who was demoralized is unable
to assess true information. The factstell nothing to him. Even if I

(29:44):
shower him with information, with authenticproof, with documents, with pictures.
Even if I take him by forcethe Soviet Union and show him concentration camp,
he will refuse to believe it untilhe's going to receive a kick in
the in his fat bottom when amilitary boot crashes his Then he will understand,

(30:04):
but not before that. That's thetragic of the situation of demoralization.
So the next stage is distabilization.This time, Subburger does not care about
your ideas and the patterns of yourconsumption. Whether you junk food and get
fat and flabb it doesn't matter anymorethis time, and it takes only from
two to five years to distabilize thenation. It's what matters is essentials,

(30:30):
economy, foreign relations, defense systems. And you can see it quite clearly
that in some areas, in suchsensitive areas as defense and economy, the
influence of Marxist Leninist ideas in theUnited States is absolutely fantastic. I could
never believe it fourteen years ago whenI landed in this part of the world

(30:53):
that the process will go that fast. The next stage, of course,
is crisis. It may take onlyup to six weeks to bring a country
to the verge of crisis. Youcan see it in Central America now and
after crisis, with a violent changeof power, structure, and economy,
you have so called the period ofnormalization. It may last indefinitely. Normalization

(31:18):
is a cynical expression borrowed from Sovietpropaganda. When the Soviet tanks moved into
Czechoslovakia in sixty eight, Comrad Bressionsaid, now the situation in broadly Czechoslovakia
is normalized. This is what willhappen in the United States if you allow
all these schmucks to bring the countryto crisis, to promise people all kinds
of goodies and the paradise on earth, to destabilize your economy, to eliminate

(31:45):
the principle of free market competition,and to put a big, broad government
in Washington, d c. Withthe benevolent dictators like Walter Montdale, who
will promise lots of things, nevermind whether the promises are fulfilled or not.
Your leftists in the United States,all professors and all these beautiful civil

(32:07):
rights defendered, they are instrumental inthe process of the of the subversion,
only to destabilize the nation. Whentheir job is completed, they are not
they are not needed anymore. Theyknow too much, some of them.
When when they get disillusioned, whenthey see that Marxist Leninists come to power,

(32:28):
obviously they get offended. They thinkthat they will come to power.
That will never happen. Of course, they will be lined up against the
wall and shot. But they mayturn into the most bitter enemies of Marxist
Leninists when they come to power.And that's what happened in Nicaragua. You
remember most of these former Marxist Leninistswere either put to prison or one of

(32:49):
them split and now he's working againstSin. Instance, it happened in Grenada
when Maurice Bouschop was he was alreadya Marxist. He was executed by a
new Marxist who was more Marxist thanthis Marxist. Same happened in Afghanistan when
first there was Taraki, he waskilled by Ann the n Amin was killed
by Barbra Karmal with the help ofKGB. Same happening in Bangladesh when Munjibur

(33:12):
Rahman, very pro Soviet leftist,was assassinated by his own Marxist Leninist military
comrades. It's the same pattern everywherethat's divided in four basic stages demoralization,
destabilization, crisis, normalization. Theywill be lined up against the wall and

(33:36):
shot, wallen, shot all andshot. And just like the video says,
have you Understanne nothing seems to workright anymore, education, in the
economy, etc. It's all breakingdown. Now you know why everything that's
happening is following is exact same foursteps. That's true again. Why all

(33:58):
the craziness, Why this push forall this craziness, Why the push for
division? Everyone's racist or you knowwhatever, ist or phobic. They're trying
to divide everybody to their basic core. So nobody has anyone that they can
trust except for themselves. They feelisolated and alone. And when humans feel

(34:21):
isolated and alone and scared, theywill seek out someone to protect them and
save them. And that's what thegovernment that were, That's what the illuminists,
that's what the New World Order agendapushing scumbags want. That's why they're

(34:42):
doing all this. It's ideological subversion. As Yuri said, now I'm going
to bring up the full length interviewfor all of you, so you guys
can watch the full length interview withUri and it's important because again he this
is a piece of history that helays out easy to understand fashion, but

(35:09):
you have to listen to the wholething to get it. It helps you
to understand who he is, whywhat he's saying should be taken very importantly,
not blown off or taken with agrain of sand, like what he's
saying should be taken at you know, let's say it's like the value of

(35:30):
gold, platinum and diamonds put together. He's telling us how this country is
being destroyed. We need to payattention. So here we go. This
is the full length interview with IriyBesmanoff and g Edward Griffin. And what

(35:52):
I'm gonna do is I'm gonna startit and then I'm gonna full screen it
so everybody can just see the fullscreen and then I will be right here
with you listening and watching as thisplace. It's just a great interview.
Ladies and gentlemen. If you needto get out your pens, pencils,
paper, like I always say,take some notes. It's important. And

(36:14):
remember this whole thing, video,audio, everything's going to be shareable.
So after this is aired, makesure you share this to everybody you know,
and as far and wide as youpossibly can get the message out.
Here we go uribezmenough on ideological subversion. My father he is on the left.

(36:36):
Here. My father was Officer ofthe General Staff of the Soviet Army.
He was Inspector of Land Forces.Soviet troops station in countries like Mongolia,
Cuba, East European countries. Thisis the picture taken at the entrance
of my Institute of Oriental Languages.It's a part of Moscow State University.
As every Soviet student, I wasquote unquote volunteering for harvesting grain in Kazakhstan.

(37:02):
By the end of my training inschool, I was recruited by the
KGB. This picture was taken onthat day and you can see again how
happy it feels to be recruited bythe KGB. Pay special attention to number
of bottles on the table. Oneof my functions was to keep forum guests
permanently intoxicated the moment they land atMoscow Airport. In nineteen sixty seven,

(37:23):
the KGB attached me to this magazineLook Magazine. A group of twelve people
arrived to USSR from the United Statesto cover the fiftieth anniversary of October Socialist
Revolution in my country. From thefirst page to the last page, it
was a package of lives. Ourconversation is with mister Yuri Alexandrovitch Besmianov.

(38:05):
Mister Besmianov was born in nineteen thirtynine in a suburb of Moscow. He
was the son of a high rankingSoviet Army officer. He was educated in
the elite schools inside the Soviet Unionand became an expert in Indian culture and
Indian languages. He had an outstandingcareer with Novesty, which was and still

(38:25):
is, i should say, thePress arm or the press agency of the
Soviet Union. It turns out thatthis is also a front for the KGB.
One of his interesting assignments was tobrainwash foreign diplomats when they visited Moscow,
and he'll tell us a little bitabout how they did this and how
they planted information which eventually wound upin the press of the free world.

(38:50):
He escaped to the West in nineteenseventy after becoming totally disgusted with the Soviet
system, and he did this atgreat risk to his life. He certainly
is one of the world's outstanding expertson the subject of Soviet propaganda and disinformation
and active measures. Mister bestman Off, I'd like to begin by having you
tell us a little bit about someof your childhood memories. Well, the

(39:12):
most vivid memory of my childhood wasSecond World War, or to be more
precise, the end of the SecondWorld War, when all of a sudden,
United States, from a friendly nationwhich helped us to defit Nazism,
turned overnight into a deadly enemy.And it was very shocking because all newspapers

(39:35):
were trying to present an image ofbelligerent, aggressive American imperialism. Most of
the things that we were taught isthat United States is aggressive power which is
just about to invade our beautiful,free socialist country. That American Cia is
dropping Colorado beetles on our beautiful potatofields to eliminate our crops. And each

(40:00):
boy had a picture of Colorado bugon the back page of his notebook,
and we were instructed to go intocollective fields to search for those little Colorado
bugs. Of course, we couldn'tfind any either, we could find many
potatoes, and that was explained againby the encroachments of the decadent andperialist power,

(40:22):
the anti American paranoia hysteria in theSoviet propaganda was to such an of
such a higher degree that many lessskeptical people or less stubborn would really believe
that the United States is just aboutto invade our beautiful motherland, and some
secretly hope that it will come true. That's interesting, yes, Well,

(40:45):
getting back to life inside the SovietUnion or inside communist countries in general.
In this country, at the universitylevel, primarily we read and hear that
gach system is different from ours,but not that different, and that there
is a convergence developing between all ofthe systems of the world. And that

(41:07):
really doesn't make an awful lot ofdifference what system you live under, because
you have corruption and dishonesty and tyrannyand all that sort of thing. From
your personal experience, what is thedifference between life under communism and life in
the United States, Well, lifeis obviously very much different for simple reason
that the Soviet Union is a statecapitalist economically. It's a state capitalism where

(41:32):
an individual has absolutely no rights,no value. His life is nothing,
just like an insect, he isdisposable. Whereby in the United States even
the worst criminal is treated as ahuman being he has a fair trial,
and some of them capitalize on theircrimes. They publish their memoirs in their
prisons and get handsomely paid by yourcrazy publishers. Differences, of course,

(42:00):
in the daily life are very various, depending on who we are talking about.
In my own private life, Inever suffered from communism, simply because
I was brought up in a familyof high ranking military officer. Most of
the doors were open for me,most of my expenses were paid by the

(42:21):
government, and I never had anytroubles with the authorities or with the police.
So in other words, I wouldsay I enjoyed, or I had
good reasons to enjoy, all theadvantages of so called socialist system. My
main motivations, to the fact,had nothing to do with affluence. It

(42:42):
was mainly moral indignation, moral protest, rebellion against the inhuman methods of the
Soviet system. Well, specifically,what did you object to? I objected,
first of all against oppression of myown dissidents in intellectuals, and that
was the most disgusting thing that Iwitnessed as a young man, young student

(43:07):
who has brought up a very troublesomeperiod in our history from Stalin to Khushshov,
from total tyranny and oppression to somekind of liberalization. Second, when
I started working for the Soviet embassyin India, to my horror, I
discovered that we are millions times moreoppressive than any colonial or imperialist power in

(43:32):
the history of mankind. That mycountry brings to India not freedom, progress
and friendship between the nations, butracism, exploitation, and slavery, and
of course economical inefficiency to this country. Since I fell in love with India,
I developed something which, by KGBstandards, is extremely dangerousing. It's

(43:55):
called split loyalty, when an agentlikes a country of assign more than his
own country. I literally fell inlove with this beautiful country, a country
of great contrasts, but also greathumility, great tolerance, and philosophical and
intellectual freedoms. My ancestors used tolive in caves and eat raw meat when

(44:15):
India was highly civilized nation six thousandyears ago, so obviously the choice was
not to the advantage of my ownnation. I decided to defect and to
entirely dissociate myself from the brutal regime. Mister Besminov, we've read a lot
about the concentration camps and slave laborcamps under the Stalin regime. Now,

(44:38):
the general impression in America is thatthose things are part of the past.
Are they still going on today orwhat is the status? Yes, there
is no qualitative change in the Sovietconcentration camp system. There are changes in
numbers of prisoners. Again, thisis unreliable Soviet statistics. We don't know

(45:04):
how many political prisoners are there inthe Soviet concentration camps, but we sure
know from various sources that at eachparticular time that are close to twenty five
to thirty million of Soviet citizens whoare virtually kept as slaves in forced labor
camp system. The size of thepopulation of country like Canada is serving terms

(45:31):
as prisoners incredible. So I wouldsay that those intellectuals who try to convince
American public that concentration camp system isa thing of a past are either conscientiously
misleading public opinion, or they arenot very intellectual people. They are selectively

(45:57):
blind. They don't they lack intellectualhonesty when they say that. But we've
spoken about the intellectuals in this countryand also the intellectuals in the Soviet Union.
What about down at the broad masslevel. Do the people in general,
the working and the working people,the workers in general and the Soviet

(46:19):
Union, do they support the system? Do they tolerated? What is their
attitude? Well, average Soviet citizen, if there is such an animal,
of course, does not light thesystem because it hurts, it kills.
He may not understand the reasons.He may not have enough information or educational
background to understand. But I doubtvery much there are many people who are

(46:49):
conscientiously supporting the Soviet system. Thatare such people in USSR. Even those
who have all the reasons to enjoysocialism, people like myself were a member
of journalistic elite, they also hatesystem for different reasons, though not because
they lack material affluence, but becausethey are unfree to think. They're in

(47:10):
constant fear, duplicity, split personality, and this is the greatest tragedy for
my nation. Well, what doyou think are the chances of the people
actually overcoming their system or replacing it. There is a great possibility that system
will sooner or later be destroyed fromwithin. There is a self destructive mechanism

(47:34):
built into any socialist or communist orfascist system because there is lack of feedback
because the system does not rely uponloyalty of population. But until this Soviet
junta is being supported by the Westernso called imperialists, that is, multinational

(47:55):
companies, establishments, governments, andlet's face it, intellectuals. So called
academia in the United States is famousfor supporting the Soviet system. As long
as the Soviet junta will keep onreceiving credits, money, technology, grain,

(48:16):
deals, and political recognition from allthese traitors of democracy or freedom,
there is no hope. There isnot much hope for changes in my country.
And the system will not collapse byitself simply because it's being nourished by
so called American imperialism. This isthe greatest paradox and history of mankind when

(48:43):
capitalist world supports and actively nourishes itsown destroyer destructor. I think you're trying
to tell us something. Oh yes, and I'm trying to tell you that
it has to be stopped unless youwant to end up in gulag system and
enjoy all the advantages of socialist equality, working for free, catching fleas on

(49:09):
your body, sleeping on the planksof plywood in Alaska. This time,
I guess that's where Americans will belong, unless they will wake up, of
course, and force the government tostop aiding Soviet fascism. When you told
us a moment ago why you leftthe system, I'd like to hear the

(49:32):
details of how you did it.It must have been a very dangerous thing.
It was not so dangerous. Itwas crazy, first of all,
because defecting in India is virtually impossiblethanks to very strong pressure from the Soviet
government. Excuse me, you werein the unassignment. Yes, I was
working for the Soviet embassy in NewDelhi as a press officer, and defecting

(49:59):
for Soviet format is next to impossible. It's a suicide. As I said,
because a great friend, Tira Gandhi, pushed a law through Parliament which
says, and I quote, nodefector from any country has the right of
political asylum in any embassy on theterritory of Indian Republic, which is a

(50:19):
masterpiece of hypocrisy. No other defectorbut the Soviet one needs a political asylum.
So, knowing that perfectly well,I planned the craziest possible way to
defect. I studied countraculture in India. There were thousands of young American boys

(50:40):
and girls with no shoes, longhair, smoking hush and marijuana, studying
sometimes Indian philosophy, sometimes simply pretendingthat they studied, and they greatly annoyed
Indian police, and they were laughingstock of Indians because obviously they were good

(51:00):
for nothing students. I studied carefullywhere they congregate, what roots they travel,
what language they speak, what dothey smoke? And one day I
simply joined a group of hippies toavoid detection of Indian police. I was
dressed as a typical hippie with bluejeans, long comings shirts, with all

(51:23):
kinds of nice decorations like bids,long hairs. I bought a wig because
for several weeks I had to turnmyself from a conservative Soviet diplomat into a
very progressive American hippie, and thatwas the only way that I could avoid

(51:43):
detection. It was very interesting experience, but it was necessary because from my
own knowledge as a member of Sovietembassy stuff, I knew that there were
many cases when Soviet defectors were betrayedby Indian police, and also some Western

(52:04):
embassies played a very dirty role inbetraying the Soviet defactories. According to our
information. There were some I wouldn'tcall them double agents, but simply a
moral people working for this for theUnited States embassy. And confiding in people
like this would be a suicide,so I had to be extremely careful.

(52:28):
I could not trust anyone, andthat was the that was the reason for
such a crazy way to defect.Well, had you been cut in the
act of trying to get out,what would have happened to you? Oh?
Most likely I would end up inconcentration camp or, depending on the

(52:51):
situation and on the whim of somebureaucrat and KGB, maybe even executed that
this is normal practice quietly, ofcourse, not publicly, but that would
be the end of my defection.Of course. Well when did you finally
make it to the United States?In nineteen seventy, after about six months

(53:13):
of debriefing in Athens by the CIAand I presume FBI too, they let
me go first to Germany then toCanada. That was my decision. I
had to change my identity to protectmy family and my friends in USSR.
And also I was a little bitparanoid knowing that both Soviet KGB and probably

(53:38):
some double agents within American system,maybe after me, so I wanted to
settle down as far away as possible. I requested CIA to give me some
kind of new identity and just letme go on my own, and I
settled in Canada. I was astudent, changed many professions from farm help

(54:04):
and laundry truck driver to instruct thelanguage instructor and broadcaster for Canadian Broadcasting Corporations
in Montreal. What have you hadany threats on your life or any yes?
In about five years, KGB eventuallydiscovered that I'm working for Canadian Broadcasting.
I made a very big mistake.I started talking. I started working

(54:28):
for overseas service of CBC, whichis similar to Voice of America in Russian
language, and of course monitoring servicein USS picked up every new voice,
every new announcer would they would makeit a point to discover who he is.
And in five years, sure enough, slowly but surely, they discovered

(54:51):
that I am not Thomas Schuman,that I am you ALEXANDROVITCHI Bizmyenov, and
that I'm working for Canadian Broadcasting andthe mining beautiful deton between Canada and USSR
and Soviet Ambassador Alexandr Yakovlev made ithis personal effort to discredit me. He
complained to Pierre Trudeau, who isknown to be a little bit soft on

(55:15):
socialism, and the management of CBCbehaved in a very strange, cowardly way,
unbecoming two representatives of an independent countrylike Canada. They listened to every
suggestion that Soviet ambassador gave and theystarted shameful investigation analyzing content of my broadcasts

(55:43):
to USSR. Sure enough, theydiscovered that some of my statements were probably
too would be offending to the SovietPolitburo, so I had to leave my
job. And of course subtle intimidateThey would say something like please cross the
street carefully because you know traffic isvery heavy in Quebec. And fortunately I

(56:10):
know about the psychology and the logicalactivity of the KGB, and I never
allowed myself to be intimidated. Thisis the word thing. This is what
they expect a person at the factorto be intimidated. Once they spot that
you are scared, they keep ondeveloping that line and then eventually you either

(56:30):
have to give up entirely and workfor them or they neutralize you. They
would definitely stop all kinds of politicalactivity, which they failed to do in
my case, because I was stubbornlyworking for the Canadian broadcasting and in response

(56:51):
to the intimidations, I said thatlook, this is a free country and
I am as free as you are, and I also can drive very fast.
Gun control is not yet established inCanada, so I had a couple
of good shotguns in my basement,so welcome to visit me someday with your
Kalashnikos machine guns. So obviously itdidn't work. Intimidation didn't work, so

(57:15):
they tried different approach. As Idescribed, the approached on the highest level,
on the level of Canadian bureaucracy,and that level, on that level
they were successful. On individual level, they failed flat. Mister Besmanov has
brought a series of slides with himthat he has taken from the Soviet Union,

(57:37):
and I think this is a goodtime to take a look at the
slides. Now the viewers will beable to see these slides as we talk
about them. Yes, this isa collection of slides which are Some of
them are snapshots from my family album, some of them are documents which I
smuggled from the Soviet embassy, andsome are reproductions from local mass media.

(57:59):
I usually show them to establish mycredibility as the factor. This is a
picture of my native town, Miticchie, about twenty miles not from Moscow.
Characteristically, there's a statue of ComradeLenin in the central square. This is
myself at the age of seven,again characteristically, and the statue of Comrade

(58:20):
Stalin extending his friendly hand to peoplesof the world. At that age,
of course, I was still idealisticallyminded young communists, and I still believe
that sooner or later things will gofor better. But I realized that the
system stinks, that something is fishy, and that ideology is fake, and

(58:44):
the propaganda about advanced Soviet agriculture simplydidn't need the criteria of reality. If
they talk about abundance of food andthere's none in the stories, there must
be something wrong. My father,he is on the left here. My
father was officer of the General Staffof the Soviet Army. He was inspector

(59:07):
of Land Forces Soviet troops stationed incountries like Mongolia, Cuba, East European
countries. Were he alive today,most likely he would be inspecting Soviet troops
in Nicaragua, Angola and many otherparts of the world. Fortunately, he
died, and he didn't see thedisgrace because deep inside he was a Russian

(59:28):
patriot. He didn't like the ideaof expanding Soviet military might, especially in
the areas where we were not welcomedat all. Unlike many other military officers,
he was reporting directly to the Ministerof Defense by passing KGB and diplomatic
service. In otherwise, he wasa trusted military professional. And my impression

(59:50):
that this type of people are muchless hawkish and adventuristic than party bureaucrats in
Kremlin. When American mass media describesSoviet military as potentially dangerous countrapart for Pentagon,
I simply laughed because I know better. I know that the most dangerous
part of the Soviet power structures arenot military at all. Most likely,

(01:00:15):
if they come to power in mycountry, they will be more sensible negotiators
for nuclear disarmament and withdrawal of theSoviet troops from many parts of the world.
But if someone from the party structureor the KGB structure were to give
the orders for a melody, theyhave to. They are professional military,
but they see the triangle of powerand hate in USSR is the party at

(01:00:37):
the top of the party elite,the oligarchy of the party, then the
military and the KGB at the bottom. They hate each other and the most
hated triangle, the most hated cornerof the triangle is the Communist Party bureaucrats.
They are the most adventuristic, snile, megalomaniacs. They can start war.

(01:00:59):
I wouldn't surprised. Not the military. They know what war is,
at least my father did. Thisis the picture taken at at the entrance
of my Institute of Oriental Languages.It's a part of Moscow State University.
I graduated in nineteen sixty three,and I assume which one were you on.
I am on the right, you'reon the right, and on the

(01:01:21):
left is my call my schoolmate Vadimsdrunov, who later was a parachic in the
Central Committee of the Soviet Union CommunistParty. What is an apparatic? It's
a function. It's something like civilservice in British Empire. Someone who is
never fired from the service. Hestays there. Internally, he may not

(01:01:42):
be promoted to high but he's adependable bureaucrat who will stay forever. I
studied not only languages, but alsohistory, literature, even music. On
this picture, I'm trying to learnhow to play musical Indian music instrument.
I haven't tried to look like anIndian when I was second years to that

(01:02:04):
that. Yes, actually it wasstrongly encouraged by the by the instructors in
my school, because the graduates ofmy school were later on employed as diplomats,
foreign journalists or spies. Uh Asevery Soviet student, I was quote
unquote volunteering for harvesting grain in Kazakhstan. This is the biggest agricultural blunder of

(01:02:32):
the Soviet government. But I didn'thave much choice, of course, because
the communist motto borrowed from the Biblesays those who do not work shall not
eat, and you can see meeating. Therefore, I was working,
and you can see how happy Iwas about it. I went through a
very extensive physical and military training,including the manure and including the military gains

(01:02:59):
in areas suburban areas of Moscow andhere, for example, we are on
the tour in Argandensk area, andby the end of my training in school,
I was recruited by the KGB.This picture was taken on that day
and you can see again how happyit feels to be recruited by the KGIB

(01:03:20):
Our conversation with Yuri Alexandrovitch Besmianov,who is a defectory from the Soviet Union,
a former propaganda agent for Novesty andthe KGB will continue after this message,

(01:03:55):
all right. As every student inUSSI, I went through very extensive
physical and military training and civil defensetraining too. Unlike in the United States,
where civil defense is virtually non existentzero, in USSR, every student,
whatever is major subject, has togo through very extensive four year military

(01:04:17):
and civil defense training. You cansee me here with a group of students
during one of the war games nearMoscow. The main idea of cause is
to prepare a huge reserve army ofthe USSR. Each student has to graduate

(01:04:38):
as a junior lieutenant. In mycase it was administrative and Military intelligence service.
My first assignment was to India asa translator with the Soviet Economical Aid
Group, building refinery complexes in DharState and Bujarat State. At that time,
I was still naively idealistically believing thatwhat I was doing contributes to the

(01:05:01):
understanding and cooperation between the nations.It took me quite a number of years
to realize that what we were bringingto India was a new type of colonialism,
a thousand times more oppressive and exploitativethan any colonialism or imperialism in the
history of mankind. But at thattime I was still hoping that, well,

(01:05:24):
maybe it's not that bad. Couldbe worse and things may go for
better. And I even tried toimplement the beautiful Marxist mod or proletarians of
all the countries unite. I triedto unite with a nice Indian goal,
and I was actually I was fascinatedby Indian culture, by the family life
in this country. But obviously CommunistParty had different plans for my genes,

(01:05:48):
so I had to marry this beautifulRussian girl. In the span of my
career, I married three times.Most of these marriages were marriages of convenience,
on advice from the Department of Personnel. This is normal practice in USSR.
When the Soviet citizen is assigned toa foreign job, he has to
be married, either to keep familyin USSR as hostages, or if it's

(01:06:14):
a convenience marriage like mine, sothat the husband and wife are virtually informers
on each other to prevent defection,or contamination by decadent imperialist or capitalist ideas.
In my case, I hated thatgirl so much that the moment I
landed in Moscow, we were divorcedand I married later second time. By

(01:06:38):
the end of my first assignment inIndia, I was promoted to the position
a public relation officer. You cansee me here translating a speech by a
Soviet boss. I'm on the righthere, yes, and it was.
The occasion was commissioning of the refinerycomplex in Bihar Barrauni. Back in Moss,

(01:07:00):
I was immediately recruited by Novasty PressAgency, which is a propaganda and
ideological subversion front for the KGB.Seventy five percent of the members of the
Novasty are commissioned officers of the KGB. The other twenty five are like myself,
co opted agents. O case,you can see me talking to students

(01:07:25):
of Lumumba Friendship University in Moscow.This is a huge school under the direct
control of the KGB and Central Committeewhere future leaders of the so called national
liberation movements are being educated and selectedcarefully, and some of them have absolutely

(01:07:45):
they neither. This, for example, is a group of students from Lumumba.
They don't look like students at all. They look more like military,
and that's exactly what they were.They were dispatched back to their countries to
be leaders of the so called nationalliberation movements or, to be translated into
normal human language, leaders of internationalterrorist groups. Another area of activity when

(01:08:10):
I was working for the Novesty wasto accompany groups of so called progressive intellectuals,
writers, journalists, publishers, teachers, professors of colleges. You can
see me here in Kremlin. I'msecond on the left with a group of
Pakistani and Indian intellectuals. Most ofthem pretended they don't understand that we are

(01:08:34):
actually working on behalf of the Sovietgovernment and the KGB. They pretended that
they are actually being guests VIP intellectuals, that they are treated according to their
merits and their intellectual abilities. Forus, there were just a bunch of
political prostitutes to be taken advantage forvarious propaganda operations. Therefore, you can

(01:08:58):
see perfectly well the senior colleague ofmine on the left doesn't really have that
much respect on his face, andmyself with a very skeptical smile, typical
KGB sarcastic smile, anticipating another victimof ideological brainwashing. This is how a
typical conference in Novesty headquarters in Moscowlook likes. The sitting in the middle

(01:09:26):
is Boris Burkov, the then directorof Novesty Press Agency, high ranking party
bureaucrat in the Department of Propaganda.I am standing next to a famous Indian
poet, Sumitranandan Punt. He wasfamous because he was an author. He
was the author of a famous poemtitled Rhapsody to Lenin. That's why he

(01:09:47):
was invited to USSR and everything waspaid by the Soviet government. Pays special
attention to number of bottles on thetable. This is one of the ways
to kill the awareness or curiosity offoreign journalists. One of my functions was
to keep foreign guests permanently intoxicated.The moment they land at Moscow airport.

(01:10:13):
I had to take them to theVIP launch and toast to friendship and understanding
in the nations of the world.Glass of vodka, then the second glass
of vodka, and in no timemy guests would be feeling very happy.
They would see everything in kind ofpink, nice color. And that's the
way I had to keep them permanentlyfor the next fifteen or twenty days.

(01:10:38):
At a certain point in time,I had to withdraw alcohol from them so
that some of them, who arethe most recruitable would feel a little bit
shaky, guilty trying to remember whatthey were talking last night. That's the
time to approach them with all kindsof nonsense such as join Communic care or
statement for Soviet propaganda. That's thetime they are and the most flexible.

(01:11:00):
And of course what they didn't understand, they didn't realize or pretended not to
realize, that myself, who wasdrinking together with them, was not drinking
at all. I had ways toget rid of alcohol through various techniques,
including special pills which were given tome by my colleagues, but they were
taking it seriously. In other words, they would consume quite large volumes of

(01:11:24):
alcohol and feel quite uneasy next morning. In nineteen sixty seven, the KGB
attached me to this magazine, LookMagazine, a group of twelve people arrived
to USSR from the United States tocover the fiftieth anniversary of October Socialist revolution
in my country. From the firstpage to the last page, it was

(01:11:46):
a package of lies propaganda cliche whichwere presented to American readers as opinions and
deductions of American journalists. Nothing couldbe found from truth. These were not
opinions. They were not opinions atall. They were the cliches which the

(01:12:08):
Soviet propaganda wants American public to thinkthat they think if it does make any
sense at all, it sure doesbecause from the viewpoint of the Soviet propaganda,
although there are some subtle criticism ofthe Soviet system, the basic message
is that Russia today is a nice, functioning, efficient system supported by majority

(01:12:30):
of population. That's the biggest lie. And of course American intellectuals and journalists
from Luke magazine elaborated on that untruthedin various different ways. They intellectualized that
lie. They found all kinds ofjustifications for telling lies to American public.

(01:12:51):
This is assuming it was partly yourjob to make sure that they got these
ideas and accepted them as their ownidea. Right. Actually, even before
they arrived to USSR and they paidastronomical sum of money for that visit,
they were submitted that this Novace Pressagency developed so called backgrounders twenty twenty five

(01:13:13):
pages of information and opinions which werepresented to the journalists even before they bought
their tickets to Moscow. They hadto analyze this situation and judging on their
reaction to that backgrounder, the localNovasty representative or local Soviet diplomat in Washington,
d C. Would assess whether theyhave whether they be given visa to

(01:13:33):
USSR or not. But alidence,they were pre selected very carefully, and
there's not much chance for honest journaliststo arrive to USSR and to stay there
for one year and to bring thispackage of lies back home. This,
for example, is a centerfold ofthe tie of the Look magazine. They

(01:13:55):
presented this monument erected by Communist Partyin Stalingrad as the symbol personification of Russian
military might. And they said inthe article which is published on the side,
that Soviets are very proud of thevictory in the Second World War.
This is another big myth, alie. Most sensible people would be proud

(01:14:15):
to lose twenty millions of their countrymenin a war which was started by Ginose
Hitler and Comrade Stalin and paid byAmerican multinationals. Most of the Soviet citizens
look at this type of monuments withdisgust and sorrow, because every family lost
father, brothers, sister or childin the Second World War. Yet American

(01:14:39):
journalists, who were trying to appeaseto please their hosts, presented this picture
on the centerfold as the symbol andpersonification of Soviet national They call it Russian
national spirit, and it was greatest, greatest misconception and a very tragic misunderstand.

(01:15:00):
Of course, Look magazine was notdistributed in USSR. The main audience
was in the United States. ButI presume that many Americans, millions of
Americans who were reading Look magazine atthat time, had absolutely wrong idea about
the sentiments of my nation, aboutwhat the Soviets are proud of and what

(01:15:24):
they hate. This is a groupyou see the same lady with the sword
in Stalingrad. This is the groupof journalists. Myself is in the center
with the same devilish smile, andmister Phillip Harrington is on the extreme left
there with his camera. This isthe gentleman which was so deaf or so

(01:15:45):
uninterested in what I had to sayto him. This is the same picture,
a blow up of the same picture. Many many guests from various countries
in this particular case is from Asiaand Africa. We're taken by me as
a novice to press agency employee fora tour across Siberia, for example.

(01:16:09):
We would show them typical kindergarten.You see, nothing special by American standards,
just nice children eating their breakfast orlunch. What they could not understand,
or they pretended not to understand,that this is an exemplary kindergarten.
This is not the kindergarten for averageperson or average family in USSR, and

(01:16:31):
we maintain that illusion in their minds. You can see myself under the red
spot in the middle there with thesame business like expression. I'm doing my
job. That's what I'm assigned todo, and that's what I was paid
to do. But deep inside,I still hope that at least some of
these useful idiots would understand that whatthey are looking at has nothing to do

(01:16:55):
with the level of affluence in mynation. This is a picture which reflects
the true spirit of the Soviet Sovietchildhood. This picture was printed in a
Canadian government publication buying mistake. Inthe middle, you can see children playing
on a small courtyard and the captiongoes this is a typical kindergarten in Siberia.

(01:17:21):
What these idiots didn't understand that itis not kindergarten at all. It
is a prison for children of politicalprisoners. But there was not a single
mentioning that what they were visiting actuallywas an area of concentration camps and the
job of people like myself to helpthem not to notice that they are actually

(01:17:44):
talking to prisoners. Most of thechildren were dressed, especially on the occasion
of the foreigners visit. Of course, there were no corpses on the ground,
there were no machine gun guards,and the well, it looks not
very less as you see, itlooks dull, but obviously it does not
create an impression that this is actuallya prison. Well did any of the

(01:18:08):
journalists have the curiosity to ask aboutprisons and that kind of in Siberia.
Yes, yes, some of themask questions, and naturally we would give
them for the stupid question, wegive them stupid answer. No, there
are no prisons in Siberia. No. Most of the people who you see
are free citizens of USSR. They'revery happy to be here and they are

(01:18:30):
contributing to the glory of the socialistsystem. Some of them pretended that they
believe what I was telling them,and most of them we may discuss it
later. What are the motivations ofthese people? Why would they stubbornly bring
lies to their own population through theirown mass media. I have various answers

(01:18:53):
to this. There is not asingle explanation. It's a complex of explanations.
It's fear, pure biological. Theyunderstand that they are on the territory
of an enemy state, a policestate, and just to save the rotten
skins and their miserable jobs their affluenceback home, they would prefer to tell
a lie them to ask truthful questionsand report truthful information. Second, most

(01:19:17):
of these schmucks were afraid to losetheir jobs because obviously, if you tell
truth about my country, you willnot last long as a correspondent of New
York Times or Los Angeles Times.They will fire you. What kind of
correspondent are you? You obviously cannotfind common language with Russians if they kick
you out in twenty four hours.So, just by trying to be confirmists

(01:19:41):
to their own editorial bosses, theytried not to offend the sentiments of the
Soviet administrators and people like myself deepinside. I hope they would insult my
or offend my sentiments. Obviously theypreferred not to another reason. I refuse
to believe it. But obviously thereis another reason. Obviously it's agreed.

(01:20:05):
These people earn a lot of money. When they come back to USA,
they claim that they are experts onmy country. They write books which sells
a million copies titled Like Russians,The Truth about Russia. Most of it
is lie about Russia, yet theyclaim to be sovietologists. They bring they

(01:20:26):
play back myth about my country,the propaganda cliches. Yet they stubbornly resist
the word of truth. If aperson like Sojianitsen is either defecting or kicked
out of USSI, they try alltheir best to discredit him and to discourage
him. I don't have much chanceto appear on National Network with the true

(01:20:48):
story about my country. But auseful idiot like Hendrick Smith or Robert Kaiser,
they have big heroes. They comeback from USSI, they say,
oh, we were talking to dissidentin Russia. Big deal. Soviet distance
are chasing American correspondence in the streets, and they are cowardly escaping from these
contacts. For some strange reason.If you want to know more about Spain,

(01:21:13):
you refer to Spanish writers. Ifyou want to learn more about French,
you read French writers, even aboutAntarctica. I bet you would read
Penguins only about the Soviet Union.For some strange reason, you read Hendrix
and Schmendricks and all kinds of kissingers. Because they claim that they know more
about my country. They know nothingor next to nothing, or they pretend

(01:21:36):
that they know more than they actuallydo. I would say they are dishonest
people who lack integrity and common senseand intellectual honesty. They bring back all
kinds of stories like that a kindergartenin Siberia admitting the most important fact,

(01:21:56):
it's a prison for children of politicalprisoners. Another greatest example of monumental ediacy
of American politicians, Edward Kennedy wasin Moscow, and he thought that he
is a popular, charismatic American politicianwho is easy going, who can smile,

(01:22:18):
dance at the wedding in Russian Palaceof Marriages. What he did not
understand, or maybe he pretended notto understand, that actually he was being
taken for a ride. This isa staged bedding, especially to impress foreign
media or useful idiots like Ed Kennedy. Most of the guests there they had

(01:22:42):
security clearance and they were instructed whatto say to foreigners. This is exactly
what I was doing. You cansee me in the same damn bedding palace
in Moscow where Ed Kennedy was dancing. Here is he smiling. He thinks
he's very smart. From the viewpointof Russians citizens who observed this ediocy,

(01:23:02):
his narrow minded, egocentrical idiot whotries to earn his own popularity through the
through participation in propaganda farces like this. Here you can see myself on the
right again, exemplary Soviet bride onthe left. Three journalists from various countries
Asia, Africa and Latin America.Obviously they enjoying the situation. They will

(01:23:28):
go back home and write reports.We were present and on a regular Soviet
wedding. They were not present ona regular Soviet wedding. They were present,
they were part of a farce ofa circus performance. Another thing which
I had to sometimes risking my lifeto explain to foreigners. Time magazine,

(01:23:49):
for example, is very critical ofSouth African racist t regime. The whole
article was dedicated to the shameful internalpassport system where black blacks are not allowing
to live with whites for some strangereason. For the last fourteen years since
my defection, nobody wanted to payattention to my passport. This is my

(01:24:12):
passport. It also shows my nationalityand it has a police robber stamp which
is called prapiska in Russian language,which assigns me to a certain area of
residence. I cannot leave that areasame way as this black man cannot leave
the area in South Africa. Yetwe call South African government racist trade giene.

(01:24:34):
Not a single Jane Shmonda or Fondais brave enough, courageous enough to
come to media and say, look, this is what happens in USSR.
I send a copy of my passportto many American liberals and civil rights defenders
and all the other useful idiots.They never bought it to answer me back.

(01:24:56):
This shows what kind of integrity,what kind of honesty these people are.
They are a bunch of hypocrites becausethey don't want to recognize a good
example of racism in my country.This is the first stage of befriending a
professor. You can see myself onthe left with the same James Bond smile.
On the right is my KGB supervisor, Comrade Leonid Metrochian, and in

(01:25:20):
the middle of professor of political sciencein Delhi University. The next stage would
be to invite him to a gatheringof in the Soviet Friendship Society that he
is sitting next to his wife beforehe is being sent to USSA for free
treat Everything is paid by the Sovietgovernment. He was made to believe that
he is invited to USSR because heis a talented, sober thinking intellectual.

(01:25:45):
Absolutely false. He is invited becausehe is a useful idiot, because he
would agree and subscribe to most ofthe Soviet propaganda cliche. And when he
is coming back to his own country, he is going for years and years
to teach the beauties of Soviet socialismto newer and newer generations of his students,

(01:26:05):
thus promoting the Soviet propaganda line.The KGB was even curious about this
gentleman. It may look innocent.Maharishi Mahesh Yogi a great spiritual leader or
maybe a great charlatan and Kruk dependingon from which side you're looking at him.

(01:26:26):
Beatles were trained at his ashram inHardwar in India how to meditate.
Mia Faro and other useful idiots fromHollywood visited his school, and they returned
back the United States absolutely zoned outof their minds with marijuana, hashish and
crazy ideas of meditation. To meditate, in other words, to isolate oneself

(01:26:48):
from the current social and political issuesof your own country, to get into
your own bubble, to forget abouttroubles of the world. Obviously, KGB
was very fascinated with such a beautifulschool, such a brainwashing center for stupid
Americans. I was dispatched by theKGB to check what kind of VIP Americans

(01:27:11):
attend this school. Yes, I'mon the left. I was trying to
get enrolled in that school. Unfortunately, the Maharishi Mahshiogi asked too much.
He wanted five hundred American dollars forenrollment. But my function was not actually
to get enrolled in the school.My function was to discover what kind of
people from United States attend this school. And we discovered that yes, there

(01:27:34):
are some influential members of family,public opinion makers of United States who come
back with the crazy stories about Indianphilosophy. Indians themselves look upon them as
idiots, useful idiots, to saynothing about KGB, who looked at them

(01:27:55):
as extremely naive, misguided people.Obviously, a v I P. Say,
a wife of a congressman or ora prominent Hollywood personality, after after
being trained in that school, ismuch more instrumental in the hands of manipulators
of public opinion and KGB than anormal person who understands, who looks through

(01:28:20):
this, this, this, thistype of fake religious training. Why would
they be more susceptible to manipulation.I just mentioned that because you see a
person who is too much involved inintrospective meditation if you carefully look, what

(01:28:40):
what Maharishi Mahshiyogi is teaching to Americansis that all most of the problems,
most of the burning issues of todaycan be solved simply by meditating. Don't
don't, don't rock the boat,don't get involved, just sit down,
look at your navel and meditate,and the things, due to strange logic,
due to cosmic vibration, will willsettle down by themselves. This is

(01:29:05):
exactly what the KGB and Marxist leninIs propaganda wants from Americans to distruct their
opinion, attention, and mental energyfrom real issues of the United States into
a non issues, into a nonworld, non existent harmony. Obviously,
it's more beneficial for the Soviet aggressorsto have a bunch of duped Americans than

(01:29:29):
Americans who are self conscious, healthy, physically fit, and alert to the
reality. Maharishi Maheshiyogi obviously is noton the payroll of the KGB, but
whether he knows it or not,he contributes greatly to demoralization of American society.
And he is not the only one. There are hundreds of those gurus

(01:29:50):
who come to you, to yourcountry to capitalize on naivete and stupidity of
Americans. It's a fashion. It'sa fashion to me, it's a fashion
not to be involved. So obviouslyyou can see that if KGB were that
curious, if they paid my treatto hardvar, if they assigned me to

(01:30:12):
that, to that strange job,obviously they were very much fascinated. They
were convinced that that type of brainwashingis very efficient and instrumental in demoralization of
the United States. Our conversation withYuri Alexandrovitch Besmianov, who is a detective
from the Soviet Union, a formerpropaganda agent for Novesty and KGB will continue

(01:30:34):
after this message. This picture showsthe part of the building of USSR Embassy

(01:31:02):
and my supervisors. On the leftis Comrade Mehdi, an Indian communist,
and on the right Comrad Mitrochim,my supervisors in the Secret Department of Research
and Country Propaganda. It has nothingto do with either research or country propaganda.
Most of the activity of that departmentwas to compile huge amount volume of

(01:31:24):
information on individuals who were instrumental increating public opinion. Publishers, editors,
journalists, actors, educationalists, professorsof political science, members of parliament,
representatives of business circles. Most ofthese people were divided roughly into groups.

(01:31:45):
Those who would toll the Soviet foreignpolicy, they would be promoted to the
positions of power through media and publicopinion manipulation. Those who refused the Soviet
influence in their own country would becharacter assassinated or executed physically con revolution same
way as in a small town ofHue and South Vietnam, several thousands of

(01:32:09):
Vietnamese were executed in one night whenthe city was captured by viet Cong for
only two days, and American CIAcould never figure out how could possibly communists
know each individual where he leaves,where to get him and would be arrested
in one night basically in some fourhours before dawn, put on a van,

(01:32:30):
taken out of the city limits andshot. The answer is very simple.
Long before communists occupied the city,there was extensive network of informers local
Vietnamese citizens who knew absolutely everything aboutpeople who were instrumental in public opinion,
including barbers and taxi drivers. Everyonewho was sympathetic to the United States was

(01:32:51):
executed. Same thing was done underthe guidance of the Soviet embassy in Hanoi,
and same thing I was doing inNew Day. To my horror,
I discovered that in the files wherepeople were doomed to execution, there were
names of pro Soviet journalists with whomI was personally friendly. Yes, they

(01:33:13):
were idealistically minded leftists who made severalvisits to USSR, and yet the KGB
decided that come revolution or drastic changesin political structure of India, they will
have to go because they know toomuch. Simply because the useful idiots,
the leftists who are idealistically believing inthe beauty of Soviet socialist or communists of

(01:33:38):
what ever system. When they getdisillusion they become the worst enemies. That's
why my KGB instructors specifically made thepoint never bother the leftists. Forget about
these political prostitutes. Aim higher.This was my instruction. Try to get
into into a large circulation established concerns, servative media reach, filthy each movie

(01:34:02):
makers, intellectual so called academic circles, cynical, egocentric people who can look
into your eyes with angelic expression andtell you a lie. These are the
most recruitable people. People who lackmoral principles, who are either too greedy
or to suffer from self importance.They feel that they matter a lot.

(01:34:26):
These are the people who cag Bewanted very much to recruit, but to
eliminate the others, to execute theothers. Don't they serve some purpose?
Wouldn't they be not they? Theyserve purpose only at the stage of destabilization
of a nation. For example,your leftists in the United States, all
these professors and all these beautiful civilrights defender they are instrumental in the process

(01:34:49):
of the of the subversion only todistabilize the nation. When their job is
completed, they are not They arenot needed anymore. They oh too much.
Some of them when they get disillusionedwhen they see that Marxist Leninists come
to power, obviously they get offended. They think that they will come to

(01:35:09):
power. That will never happen.Of course, they will be lined up
against the wall and shot. Butthey may turn into the most bitter enemies
of Marxist Leninists when they come topower. And that's what happened in Nicaragua.
You remember, most of these formerMarxist Leninists were either put to prison
or one of them split and nowhe's working against Sandinistas. It happened in

(01:35:31):
Grenada when Maurice Boushop was he wasalready a Marxist. He was executed by
a new Marxist who was more Marxistthan this Marxist. Same happened in Afghanistan
when first there was Taraki, hewas killed by Ann that n Amin was
killed by Barbra Karmal with the helpof KGB. Same happening in Bangladesh when
Munjibur Rahman, very pro Soviet leftist, was assassinated by his own Marxist Leninist

(01:35:56):
military comrades. It's the same patterneverywhere. The moment they serve their purpose,
all the useful idiots are used,either the executed entirely all the idealistically
minded Marxists, or were exiled orput in prisons, like in Cuba.
Many many former Marxists are in Cuba, I mean in prison. So most
of the Indians who were cooperating withthe Soviets, especially without the Department of

(01:36:24):
Information of the usso Embassy, werelisted for execution. And when I discovered
that fact, of course, Iwas sick. I was mentally and physically
sick. I thought that I'm goingto explode. One day during the briefing
at the ambassador's office, I wouldstand up and say something that we are
basically a bunch of murderers. That'swhat we are. Has nothing to do

(01:36:45):
with friendship and understanding between the nationand blah blah blah. We are murderers.
We behave as a bunch of thugsin a country which is hospitable to
US, a country which with ancienttraditions. But I I did not defect.
I tried to get the message across. To my horror nobody wanted even
to listen, least of all tobelieve what I had to say. And

(01:37:09):
I tried all kinds of tricks Iwould, I would, I would leak
information through letters or lost documents orsomething like that, and still I got
no message. The message was notpublished even in the conservative mass media of
India. The immediate impulse to thefact was Bangladesh crisis, which was described
by American correspondence as Islamic grassroot revolution, which is absolute blogning. There was

(01:37:35):
nothing to do with Islam and therewas no grassroot revolution. Actually, there
are no grassroot revolutions period. Anyrevolution is a byproduct of a highly organized
group of conscientious and professional organizers,but has nothing to do with grassroots.
In Bangladesh, it was nothing withgrassroots. Most of the Avami League party

(01:37:59):
members Avami League's People's Party were trainedin Moscow in the High Party School.
Most of the Multifauge leaders MULTIFAUGI isin Bengolivin's People's Army, same as SWAPO
and all kinds of liberation armies allover the world, the same bunch of
useful idiots. They were trained atLumumba University and various centers of the KGB

(01:38:19):
in Sinferopol, in Crimea and inTashkent. So when I saw that India,
Indian territory is being used as ajumping board to destroy East Pakistan,
I saw myself thousands of so calledstudents traveling through India to East Pakistan through
the territory of India, and Indiangovernment pretended not to see what was going

(01:38:44):
on. They knew perfectly well.The Indian police knew it, the Intelligence
department of Indian government knew it.The KGB, of course knew it,
and the CIA knew it. Thatwas most infuriating because when I defected and
I explained to the CIA debriefers theyshould watch out because East Pakistan is going
to rrupt any moment. They said, I was reading too many James Bond

(01:39:05):
novels anyway, So East Pakistan wasdoomed. One of my colleagues in the
Soviet consulate in Kalkata, when hewas dead drunk, he ventured into the
basement to relieve himself and he foundedbig boxes which said printed matter to Dhaka
University. Dakka is the capital ofEast Pakistan. And since he was drunk

(01:39:28):
and curious, he opened one ofthe boxes and he discovered not printed matter,
he discovered kalashika guns and ammunition andthere anyway, it's a long story.
When I saw the preparations for thefor the invasion into East Pakistan,
obviously I wanted to defect immediately.The only thing I couldn't I couldn't at
that time make up my mind whenand where and how. One of the

(01:39:51):
reasons, of course, you see, I was in love with the India.
I mentioned that before I spoke thelanguages, I socialized the people,
and I understood that I had toact fast unless I want this beautiful country
to be permanently and irreparably damaged byour presence. One of the reasons not

(01:40:13):
to defect was, as you cansee, I was living in relative affluence.
Who the hell in a normal mindwould defect and do what to be
abused by your media, to becalled mccarthyists and fascist and paranoid, or
to drive a taxi in New YorkCity? What for? What the hell
for should I defect to be abusedby Americans, to be insulted in exchange

(01:40:36):
for my effort to bring the truthfulinformation about impending dangers of version. As
you can see I was living inquite a comfortable conditions next to swimming pool
where Indians were not allowed by theway, I was highly paid, expert
in propaganda, I had my family, I was respected by my nation.
My career was cloudless. The thirdreason how to defect with the family to

(01:41:00):
the fact that the baby and thewife would be virtual suicide because according to
law, that hypocritical law which Iquoted before, the Indian police will have
to hand me over back to theKGB and that will be the end of
my defection and probably my life.Again, I cannot smuggle my wife because
she was not quite sure what Iwas doing. She was not that idealistically

(01:41:25):
involved, and she was definitely notin the total picture of what I was
doing for the KGB. She wouldbe shocked. If I put her in
my van and drive her to Americanembassy or elsewhere, that would be the
greatest danger. So again I hadto defect in such a way that my

(01:41:45):
defection would look as simple disappearance.And there were many cases like that when
the Soviet agent simply disappeared, eitherkilled in action or thanks to the curiosity
and the close contacts with radical someof them and were killed by the Marxists.
By the way, it happened inmany African countries when the Soviet KGB
were killed by Africans themselves, notbecause they hated Marxist leninies, but because

(01:42:10):
they were simply trigger happy a bunchof unruly characters. If you give them
machine gun, they will shoot.And some of the Soviets obviously were not
careful enough to protect themselves, andthey got into embarrassing situations when they were
shot at the crossfire between factions ofso called liberation movements. Anyway, so

(01:42:30):
I decided, as I said,to study the counterculture. I decided this
probably would be the best way todisappear. I socialized with characters like this
on the left you see is abarefoot American hippie. It took me quite
a long time to study exactly whatthey were doing and how to mix with
them, but eventually I did it. Most of Indian newspapers carried my picture

(01:42:55):
and promise of two thousand groupes forinformation about my way about. But they
were looking for a wrong person becausethey obviously tried to stop a young Soviet
diplomat and white shirt and tie,and that this is how I looked at
the time of defection, nobody couldpossibly think that the Soviet diplomat would be
as crazy as to join a bunchof hippies. That's you. Yes,

(01:43:18):
travel Indian smoke harsh. So Imade it literally, almost like a Hollywood
style detective story, from under thenose of the KGB in Bombay Airport.
I landed the plane and I flewto Greece, where I was debrised by
the CIA. That's basically most that'sall for my Hey, we can slide,

(01:43:42):
we can turn off the projector.And that's very interesting. When you
spoke several times before about ideological subversion, that is a phrase that I'm afraid
some Americans don't fully understand when theSoviets use the phrase ideological subversion. What
do they mean by logical subversion?Is the process which is legitimate, over

(01:44:06):
and open. You can see itwith your own eyes. All you have
to do, all American mass mediahas to do is to unplug the bananas
from their ears, open up theireyes and they can see it. There's
no mystery, there's nothing to dowith espionage. I know that espionage intelligence
gathering looks more romantic. It sellsthe orderance through the advertising. Probably that's

(01:44:28):
why your Hollywood producers are so crazyabout James Bond type of thrilleries. But
in reality, the main emphasis ofthe KGB is not in the area of
intelligence at all. According to myopinion and opinion of many de factors of
my caliber, only about fifteen percentof time, money and manpower is spent

(01:44:50):
on espionage. As such, theother eighty five percent is a slow process
which we call either ideological subversion oractive measures actively miropriatia in the language of
the KGB, or psychological warfare.What it basically means is to change the
perception of reality of every American tosuch an extent that, despite of the

(01:45:15):
abundance of information, no one isable to come to sensible conclusions in the
interests of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country.
It's a great brainwashing process which goesvery slow, and it's divided in four
basic stages, the first one beingdemoralization. It takes from fifteen to twenty

(01:45:42):
years to demoralize the nation. Whythat many years, because this is the
minimum number of years which requires toeducate one generation of students in the country
of your enemy exposed to the ideologyof the enemy. In others, Marxist
Leninism ideology is being pumped into thesoft heads of at least three generations of

(01:46:04):
American students without being challenged or contrabalancedby the basic values of Americanism American patriotism.
The result, the result. Youcan see, most of the people
who graduated in sixties dropouts or halfbaked intellectuals are now occupying the positions of
power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, educational system.

(01:46:29):
You are stuck with them. Youcannot get rid of them. They
are contaminated. They are programmed tothink and react to certain stimuli in a
certain pattern. You cannot change theirmind. Even if you expose them to
authentic information, even if you provethat white is white and black is black,
you still cannot change the basic perceptionand the logic of behavior. In

(01:46:53):
other words, these people, theprocess of demoralization is complete and irreversible.
To get rid society of these people, you have you need in either twenty
or fifteen years to educate a newgeneration of patriotically minded and common sense people

(01:47:13):
who would be acting in favor andin the interests of the United States society.
And yet these people who have beenprogrammed and as you say, in
place, and who are favorable toan opening with the Soviet concept. These
are the very people who would bemarked for extermination. In most of them,
yes, simply because the psychological shockwhen they will see in future what

(01:47:40):
the beautiful society of equality and socialjustice means in practice. Obviously they will
revolt. They will They will bevery unhappy, frustrated people, and the
Marxist Leninist regime does not tolerate thesepeople. They obviously they will join the
links of these centers dissidents. Unlikein present United States, there will be

(01:48:04):
no place for dissent in future MarxistLeninists America. Here you can get popular
like Daniel Ellsberg and filthy rich likeJane Fonda for being dissident, for criticizing
your pentagon. In future, thesepeople will be simply squashed like cockroaches.

(01:48:25):
Nobody is going to pay them nothingfor the beautiful, noble ideas of equality.
This they don't understand, and itwill be greatest shock for them.
Of course, the demoralization process inthe United States is basically completed already for
the last twenty five years. Actually, it's over ful filled because demoralization now

(01:48:45):
reaches such areas where previously not evencommon do drop off and all his experts
would even dream of such a tremendoussuccess. Most of it is done by
Americans to Americans thanks to lack ofmoral standards. As I mentioned before,
exposure to true information does not matteranymore. A person who was demoralized is

(01:49:11):
unable to assess true information. Thefacts tell nothing to him. Even if
I shower him with information with authenticproof, with documents, with pictures,
even if I take him by forceto the Soviet Union and show him concentration
camp, he will refuse to believeit until he is going to receive a

(01:49:32):
kick in his fat bottom when amilitary boot crashes his Then he will understand,
but not before that. That's thetragic of the situation of demoralization.
So basically America is stuck with demoralization. And unless even if you start right
now here, this minute, youstart educating new generation of America, it

(01:49:53):
will still take you fifteen to twentyyears to turn the tide of ideological person
perception of reality back to normalcy andpatriotism. The next stage is distabilization.
This time subverter does not care aboutyour ideas and the patterns of your consumption.

(01:50:14):
Whether you eat junk food and getfat and flabb it doesn't matter anymore
this time, and it takes onlyfrom two to five years to distabilize the
nation. It's what matters is essentials, economy, foreign relations, defense systems.
And you can see it quite clearlythat in some areas, in such

(01:50:35):
sensitive areas as defense and economy,the influence of Marxist Leninist ideas in the
United States is absolutely fantastic. Icould never believe it fourteen years ago when
I landed in this part of theworld that the process will go that fast.

(01:50:55):
The next stage, of course,is crisis. It may take only
up to six weeks too to bringa country to the verge of crisis.
You can see it in Central Americanow, and after crisis, with a
violent change of power, structure andeconomy, you have so called the period
of normalization. It may last indefinitely. Normalization is a cynical expression borrowed from

(01:51:16):
Soviet propaganda. When the Soviet tanksmoved into Czechoslovakia in sixty eight, Comrade
Bression said, now the situation inbroadly Czechoslovakia is normalized. This is what
will happen in the United States ifyou allow all these schmucks to bring the
country to crisis, to promise peopleall kinds of goodies and the paradise on

(01:51:38):
earth, to destabilize your economy,to eliminate the principle of free market competition,
and to put a big, broadergovernment in Washington, d C.
With the benevolent dictators like Walter montDale, who will promise lots of things.
Never mind whether the promises are fulfillableor not. You will go to

(01:52:00):
Moscow to kids the bottoms of newgeneration of Soviet assassins. Never mind.
He will create false illusions that thesituation is under control. Situation is not
under control. Situation is disgustingly outof control. Most of the American politicians,
media, and educational system trains anothergeneration of people who think they are

(01:52:24):
living at a peace time false.The United States is in the state of
war, undeclared total war against thebasic principles and the foundations of this system.
And the initiator of this war isnot comrad on drop off, of
course, it's the system, howeverridiculous it may sound. The world communist

(01:52:48):
system or the world communist conspiracy.Whether I scared some people or not,
I don't give a hoot. Ifyou are not scared by now, nothing
can scare you. But you don'thave to be par annoyed about it.
What actually happens now that, unlikemyself, you have literally several years to

(01:53:11):
live on unless the United States wakeup. The time bomb is ticking,
that every second the disaster is comingcloser and closer. Unlike myself, you
will have nowhere to defect to unlessyou want to live in antactical attainments.
This is it. This is thelast country of freedom and possibility. Okay,
so what do we do? Whatis your recommendation to the American treat

(01:53:35):
Well, The immediate thing that comesto my mind is, of course,
there must be a very strong nationaleffort to educate people in the spirit of
real patriotes number one, number two, to explain them the real danger of
socialist communist whatever welfare state they broughta government. If people will fail to

(01:54:00):
grasp the impending danger of the development, nothing ever can help United States.
You make kids, goodbye to yourfreedom, including freedoms to homosexuals, to
prison inmate. All this freedom willvanish evaporating in five seconds, including your
precious lives. The second thing,the moment at least part of the United

(01:54:25):
States population is convinced that the dangeris real, they have to force their
government. And I'm not talking aboutsending letters, signing petitions and all this
beautiful noble activity. I am talkingabout forcing United States government to stop aiding
Communism, because there is no otherproblem more burning and urgent than to stop

(01:54:47):
the Soviet military industrial complex from destroyingwhatever is left of the free world.
And it is very easy to do. No credits, no technology, no
money, no political or diplomatic recognition, and of course no such idiocies great
deals to USSR. The Soviet people, two hundred and seventy millions of Soviets

(01:55:09):
will be eternally thankful to you ifyou stop aiding a bunch of murderers who
sit now in Kremlin and whom PresidentDragon respectfully calls government. They do not
govern anything, least of all suchcomplexity as the Soviet economy. So basic,
two very simple, maybe two simplisticanswers or solutions, but nevertheless they

(01:55:31):
are the only solutions. Educate yourself, understand what's going on around you.
You are not living at the timeof peace. You are in a state
of war, and you have preciouslittle time to save yourself. You don't
have much time, especially if you'retalking about young generation. There's not much
time left for convulsions to the beautifuldiscal music. Very soon it will go

(01:56:00):
just overnight. If we are talkingabout capitalists or wealthy businessmen, they I
think they are selling the rope onwhich they will hang very soon. If
they don't stop, if they cannotcurb the unsettled desire for profit, and
if they keep on trading with themonster of the Soviet communism, they are

(01:56:23):
going to hang very soon, andthey will pray to be killed, but
unfortunately they will be sent to Alaska, probably to manage industry of slaves.
It's simplistic. I know it soundsunpleasant. I know Americans don't like to
listen to things which are unpleasant.But I have defected not to tell you
the stories about such idiocies as microfilmedJames Bond type espionage. This is garbage.

(01:56:50):
You don't need any espionage anymore.I have come to talk about survival.
It's a question of survival of thissystem. You may ask me what
is it in for me survival obviously, because I'm like, as I said,
I am now in your boat.If we sing together, we will

(01:57:10):
sing beautifully together. There is noother place on this planet to defect.
There you have it, ladies andgentlemen. That is the full length interview
with Ry bezminof former KGB Subversive andhe died back in the nineties, but

(01:57:39):
I'm pretty sure he'd be happy toknow that his information is still being circulated
today, and it's important that thisstuff does get circulated. You know,
this younger generation, they love tosay, well, communism just wasn't done
right by these other generations. That'sarrogance and ignorance to such a grand scale

(01:58:00):
actually just utterly amazes me. Butthat's the programming that they've been put through.
That's a result of the programming incolleges and in schools. So it's
important for everyone to see this fulllength interview and hear what Uri had to
say. Pay attention, ladies andgentlemen. Ideological subversion is going on all
around you right now. It's timeto wake up. I'm gonna leave you

(01:58:27):
on a positive note. I alwaystry to leave things in a positive note.
I'm gonna leave things in a positivenote with y'all. My favorite quote
from doctor Martin Luther King Junior.Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light
can do that. Hate cannot driveout hate. Only love can do that.
Ladies and gentlemen, Love and lightis what is going to win this.
It's not new agy, it's justa matter of fact. Love and

(01:58:53):
light will beat darkness and fear everytime, and that's what we need to
do. I love you all andI'll catch you again live next week.
I'm out here.

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