UFOs, The Annunaki, The JFK Assassination & More

On tonight's edition of Rabbit Hole Radio, Popeye welcomes to the show legendary UFO and ancient alien researcher Don Ecker. The topics they will be discussing are, but not limited, to as follows. Don's background and how he got into this field of research; UFOs; Ancient Aliens and the Annunaki; The possible origins of man; The JFK Assassination; The sudden disclosure of aliens to the public, and more. Tune in for another very insightful broadcast.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
One world currency. I imagine thatright now you're feeling a bit like Alice
tumbling down the rabbit hole. Letme tell you why you're here. You're
here because you know something. Whatyou know you can't explain, but you

(00:24):
feel it. You felt it yourentire life, that there's something wrong in
the world. You don't know whatit is, but it's there, like
a splinter in your mind driving youmade it. Is this feeling that has
brought you to me. This isyour last chance. After this, there
is no turning about. You takethe blue pill. The story end.

(00:45):
You wake up in your bed andbelieve whatever you want. You take the
red pill. You stay in Wonderland, and I show you how to beat
the rabbit hole. Do all I'moffering is the truth nothing. When we
are opposed around the world by amonolithic and rumless conspiracy and relies primarily on

(01:07):
covered themes for expanding its sphere ofinfluence, on infiltration instead of invasion,
on subversion instead of elections, onintimidation, instead of free choice, on
guerrillas by night instead of armies byday. It is a system which has
been scripted vast human and material resourcesinto the building of a Titman myths.

(01:30):
Highly efficient machine that combine military,diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific,
and political operations. Its preparations areconcealed, not published. Its mistakes are
buried, not headlined. Its descentivesare silenced, not praised. No expenditure
is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. I am

(01:55):
asking your help and the tremendous taskof informing and alerting the American people.
And now welcome to another episode ofDown the rabbit Hole. Here's your host.
It's Popeye. Ladies and gentlemen,welcome to another live edition of rabbit

(02:16):
Hole Radio. On tonight's edition,it is November fourth, twenty twenty three.
I have a very special guest Iam super excited to be hanging out
with for two hours tonight. We'regonna be getting into a bunch of stuff.
Of course, it's November, sowe're going to be touching on the
jfk assassination. I have an interestingpiece of information that my guests can pontificate

(02:40):
on tonight in regards to the assassinationof John F. Kennedy. In fact,
I have referenced this very thing manytimes, and he is able to
get into the nitty gritty about it. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
So who can I be talking about? So last week I had a great
roundtable of guests on and after theshow, mister Don Ecker and I stayed

(03:07):
on for another hour and a halfand had just this epic off air conversation,
and I said to him, Don, what are you doing next week?
What are you doing next week?You want to come on because we
need to be talking about this stuffon air. So, without wasting any
more time, let me bring myesteemed guest to the airways tonight. Those
of you listening on KJRA, youready know who he is. Those of

(03:29):
you that are my old school listenersor longtime listeners that may not know who
he is, you will have agreat understanding of who Don Ecker is after
hanging out with him tonight. So, without further ado, let me bring
legendary UFO, ancient alien specialist,researcher, radio show host, former police

(03:52):
officer, Vietnam veteran, and allaround really awesome guy, mister John Ecker
to the stage. Done, welcomeback. Well, my god, are
you gracious? Popeye? I appreciatethat. Thank you, It's a pleasure
to be here. Thank you forthank you a for the extra hour and
a half last week, and Iwas here two hours ago. Yes,

(04:18):
I don's clock is a bit off. Yeah, I was for some reason.
Now I'm in California. Popeye isin Florida. Our producer, Bill
Skywatcher is in New York. Somewherealong the line, I thought this was

(04:41):
five to seven my time. Ohmy god, was I wrong? So
here I am. Well, thankyou for giving us an extra couple hours
tonight. Don I know the listenersappreciate it. Yeah, well, actually
I was talking to I was talkingto one of our other hosts prior to

(05:05):
the start of this show, ReneeBarnett, who does night Vision Radio Now.
Renee is also the person that handlesthe KGr dB newsletter and she's working
on some other projects right now forKGr. And anyway, I wrote a

(05:30):
novel that was published in two thousandand four. It's a horror novel and
it deals with vampires and it's well, I've been told I've got a section
in there taken out of Vietnam.And this is going to sound like I'm

(05:55):
tooting my horn, but it's atrue story. I had some Vietnam vets
that came to me after they readthe thing and they said, man,
that thing you did in chapter twogave me freaking nightmares. So anyway,
I thought my job was done.But she wants to see if she can

(06:19):
get it republished, reissued. Sowe were talking about it and I said,
Renee, do you know how Ihappened to do this? And she
said, no, you never toldme. So I said, well,
back in eighty one eighty two,I was called upon to investigate as a

(06:39):
criminal investigator a detective two cattle mutilations. Now this was in the state of
Idaho, Idaho, and part ofthis story that puzzled me to no end.
There was no obvious reason these boththese animals died. They didn't have

(07:00):
a bullet hole, they weren't poisonnothing like that. But they were mutilated.
And when I say mutilated, I'mtalking about their sexual organs were removed,
their rectum had been cored out,skin on half of their face,
their skull had been removed, aneyeball removed. But the weirdest thing,

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and you got to know, nowpeople today are familiar with cattle mutilations,
I wasn't back then. The weirdestthing were these animals were ex sangminated.
That means they had no blood intheir body. Their blood was removed.
There was no obvious blood on theground, nothing like that. So you
know, it was just when Itell you weird, trust me, dude,

(07:47):
it was weird. So we're talkingabout this, and I said,
you know, in a at thetime, I kind of jokingly said,
geez, I wonder if vampires wereinvolved with this, Just making an offhand,
stupid joke, right, And sowe started talking a little more and
I said, oh, that remindsme. In nineteen eighty four, I

(08:09):
had traveled back east. I'm originallyfrom the East Coast to see family and
what have you. And my sisterand her husband were there. Now,
her husband was a Navy corman,okay, and they had been stationed out
in San Diego. Out here inSan Diego. So anyway, we're just

(08:33):
sitting around the table one night,bullshitting, drinking coffee and just you know,
telling stories. And my brother inlaw looked at me, he said,
hey, have you ever heard ofthe Highgate Vampire? Well I hadn't
never even heard of it, butI was curious, so I asked him

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what and what was this about hesaid, Well, in London, at
the Highgate Cemetery, which incidentally isa very old, very esteemed cemetery,
they have some real heavyweights buried inthere, like, for example, Karl

(09:16):
Marx, the guy that wrote dosCopy tal and one of the leading lights
of the Kamis in the world.Okay, And so the story went that
this guy, this investigator, actuallythere were two of them. I got

(09:39):
to know one very well. Idid a big research and investigation project on
this whole thing. But leaving thataside for a minute, had been walking
by two young girls allegedly had beenwalking by the cemetery on their way home

(10:00):
from school. So the story goes, and suddenly these two girls were enveloped
in a vision of some graves openingand something coming out of the graves.
Okay. Then later in the cemeterysome animals were found, like a fox,

(10:26):
and I forget what the other animalswere that were dead and ex salinated.
Okay, And finally there was anapparition that was seen walking around the
cemetery. Well. In nineteen seventyall right, the BBC ended up running

(10:50):
a special at the cemetery that wasoverrun by people with hammers and steaks and
crosses and all kinds of paraphernalia lookingfor a vampire. That was the start
of the story. Well, it'smuch longer and involved, and as a

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matter of fact, you know,I could do a whole damn show on
this, Popeye, but that's notwhy we're here tonight. But anyway,
as it turns out, Renee hadbeen contacted by one of these people concerning
the Highgate vampire. Now, abouttwo years ago, I was interviewed by

(11:37):
a magazine because my name was allover this case, because I basically did
a major expose on this one guywhose name is Sean Manchester, a total
maniac my personal opinion. Okay,the guy is wackle, but he had

(12:01):
been running around for years screaming vampiresare real, vampires are real until I
tried to contact him back in twothousand and three, two thousand and four,
because I wanted to do a showon this, and I had some
questions, if you will, toask this guy, and he claims to
have killed vampires. He drove asteak through their heart and then cut their

(12:28):
head off with the grave digger shovel. That kind of stuff. Now,
I gotta admit, on one sideof my mind, I wondered where the
men and the white coats and thebutterfly nets were okay with this guy.
But when he found out who Iwas, he wanted nothing to do with
me. Then he began attacking me. And now I got to tell you,

(12:54):
I've been attacked by genuine freaking experts, all right. When I was
a cop, I worked in narcotics. Let me tell you what I've been
I've been attacked. And this waskind of in many ways funny. But
the guy would track people around theweb that mentioned the Highgate Vampire Highgate Cemetery,

(13:20):
Sean Manchester or his nemesis, DavidFarrant. Now Farrant ended up becoming
a very good friend of mine.I interviewed him several times, one of
the funniest guys I ever talked to, and he gave me a lot of
the inside scoop about this guy,including this young woman who supposedly now Manchester

(13:46):
wrote a book and in the bookhe claims this woman came looking for him
because she knew he was an occultexpert and she was being docked by this
apparition blah blah blah. And soI thought, well, that's interesting.

(14:07):
I'm going to see if I cantrack this girl down. Now he didn't
identify the girl. He gave hera pseudonym, Lucia. Okay, So
I have some good friends in theUK. One of them is a world
class investigator. I found out thatin Manchester's book, supposedly he ended up

(14:31):
staking this vampire and then covertly takingher out to I think it was I'd
have to check my notes the NorthEnd Cemetery and secretly burying her. So
I had my buddy do some investigationthat was pure bs. Then I got
Manchester's divorce decree. And this wasafter I was told by David Farrant her

(14:58):
actual name Jacqueline Cooper and guests whomissus Manchester divorced Sean over who Jacqueline Cooper.
They had a little love triangle thinggoing on. So I put all
this in a report. I wrotethis report up and then this guy went

(15:20):
batshit insane on me. But ifyou're interested, there's a magazine in London
called Vice Magazine or dot Vice dotcom that called me up and interviewed me
for a couple hours several years ago, right around New Year's and I gave

(15:43):
them all the stuff you know thatI could easily give them over the Skype
chat and they ended up publishing thisthing. But this is a case that
just won't go away. But theHighgates Cemetery, Oh do they get it
choosy and picky if you mentioned anythingabout the Highgate Vampire. But it's a

(16:04):
hell of a story. So anyway, there you go. When when do
they think? When does Renee thinkthey might be able to republish this horror
story of yours? Ah, wejust had preliminary talks about it today.
It's my novel here, let mesee past since Okay, thish took me

(16:33):
well off and on three years towrite. And I'll tell you near the
end. And once again, thisis not hyperbole. I was having nightmares
when I went to bed when Iwas writing this book. That's honest to
God true. So yeah, butI'd love to see it back out.
I've had good reviews at the time. That'd be cool to get it republished.

(16:56):
I'm all for. I'll buy acopy only if you autograph and right,
popeye, you son of a bitch? Don okay, I can I
can handle that, No problem,So done. I want to take a
second before we get into because Iwant to get I definitely want to like

(17:17):
spend some time talking about the onanakiand sitchen and stuff. Before we go
that route, I want to askyou the obligatory question for the listeners,
because you were a Vietnam veteran.You were you're a combat vet. You
were a detective, and now youyou you've done radio, you've been an

(17:38):
investigative researcher talking about UFOs, thepower, normal and things like that,
and you're also an author. Sowhat led Don from being a detective and
you know, police officer, militaryveteran down the rabbit hole of UFOs and

(18:00):
normal phenomenon. Huh, okay,uh, you ask a good question.
Well, in nineteen sixty four,Okay, it was in the spring.
The weather was getting nice. Backin those days, we still had drive

(18:21):
in movie theaters, and my dadand mom and myself and my little sister
we had been planning on going toI don't even recall what the movie was.
For some reason, fifty five daysin picking sticks in my mind it
might have been that, but I'mnot sure. But it was still sunny

(18:42):
outside. We had just had dinner. My old man had gone into the
living room to read the newspaper,and suddenly he started yelling at me,
come here, Come here, Comehere. So I went in and there
was a news article in our newspaperabout the Lonnies of Moore Cicoro Ufo case.

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Now, my old man was aWorld War two in Korean War bed.
He had been a retread and amore pragmatic guy you would have never
met. And when he was talkingabout UFOs, this Ufo story, I
gotta tell you, I was shocked. So I went in read the story.

(19:23):
Are you familiar with the with thestoryoro? Okay? Okay? This
cop by the name Elani Zamora inNew Mexico, all right, had a
reputation for being a real hard nose. He enforced the speed limits and he
was literally chasing a speeder when hesaw this thing come down and land in

(19:52):
the desert, okay, which kindof grabbed his attention, so he tore
off the road. He drove downthere he saw this egg shaped thing with
four landing gear. Okay, thatwas landed in the desert. A hatchway
opened and two small humanoid figures insuits and helmets climbed out of the craft.

(20:23):
And he's watching this I'm sure hisjaw was around his knees, and
I don't know if they saw himor whatever, but they jumped back inside
this object closed up. The thingfired like it had some kind of jet

(20:45):
apparatus on it, Okay, causedsome bushes and stuff to burn, lifted
off, and bloom was out ofsight. Well, he called it in
and somebody got in touch with theAir Force. The Air Force sent out
their Blue Book team, including Savannahastronomer j Allen Heinig. Okay, now

(21:10):
this is a case, incidentally,that's never been solved. It's listed as
an unknown, very very famous case. So, okay, we're going along,
and you know, we had someacademic book club stuff in my school,

(21:32):
and I had read books by peoplelike Frank Edwards, Donald Keho,
some legendary names in the field.And in nineteen sixty six I was a
deer hunter. Okay, where Icame from in the state, everybody looked
forward to the first or second weekof December to go deer hunting. So

(21:53):
I was with three of my buddies. We were up around a place called
the Horseshoe Curve, which back eastwas a very famous engineering marvel from the
nineteenth century, the mid nineteenth century. It was literally the gateway that went
from the east coast out towards Chicago. And we'd been hunting all day.

(22:17):
It was cold, snow, andwe were skunned. Okay, So about
four fifteen or so, we're comingback down off the hills. We're going
to go down getting our cars andgo home, get something to eat,
warm up. And as I'm walkingdown the hill, one of my buddies
behind me started yelling. And myfirst thought was this moron saw a deer

(22:41):
and he's gonna scare it away.I whipped around, but no, he
was standing there looking straight up inthe sky. And I stopped and looked,
and four brilliant white lights in aV or a diamond formation were overflying.
They weren't going that fast, andas they overflow us, suddenly the

(23:03):
one in the rear okay, flastedstraight up into the sky and was gone
in just seconds. Now the threethat are still traveling okay, and they
were traveling in a eastward position,like somebody kicked them in the tailpipes.

(23:26):
They hit a burst of speed,flying in the same direction and they were
out of sight. So when Igot home, I was just babbling.
I'm telling my parents about this.I turned on the radio, turned on
the TV. I was sure thiswas going to be big news, not
a word. It wasn't until manyyears later, actually, in the late

(23:51):
eighties, that I discovered that atthat time the entire Eastern Seaboard was being
swamped in UFO sightings West Virginia,Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York,
Ohio. Okay, they were everywhere, and I later found out that there
were some other weird oddities connected withthat, with animal deaths, unexplained animal

(24:18):
deaths, and up in Somerset Countythere were reports of cryptid creatures. But
this was all later, okay,so it kind of stuck in my mind.
So I graduated high school, goto college for the first time for
a year, got out, wentinto the military, went into the Army,

(24:41):
And when I got back three yearslater, I had been reading a
Fate magazine, which I believe theystill publish that, if I'm not mistaken,
Fate Magazine, and in there therewas a promo for a new book
that was coming out by an authorthat I had been aware of, a

(25:04):
guy the name of John Keel,and the name of the book was the
Mothman prophecies. Now that's the namethat today, even if you never read
the book. A number of yearsago a film was made with Richard gear
about this, and I later metKeel, got to know him, and

(25:27):
he actually was one of the leadinglights that put me on the path to
a three year research effort that Iended up beating my head against the wall
trying to track down information on humanmutilations. Oh yeah, there are human

(25:48):
mutilations as well as animal mutilations.But that's the story for another day.
So anyway, Keel had been involvedin leading the charge in sixty five sixty
six down in West Virginia, therehad been sightings of this cryptid creature that

(26:11):
became known as the mothmen, andthe UFOs were everywhere. As a matter
of fact, and I quiz Johnon this. There was one report.
Now before I go there, letme say this that a lot of these
UFOs seemed to have an inordinanate interestinto women during their menstrual cycle. And

(26:40):
in one case, a Red Crossbloodmobile ended up being chased down the road
with the UFO that detached arms orhandles that literally tried to abduct this bloodmobile.
The only thing apparently that stopped itwas a bunch of oncoming traffic that

(27:04):
was coming the opposite way, andthis thing retracted its claws or whatever they
were and took off up into thesky. So there was some very very
weird stuff going on which cumulated cumulatedin the collapse of the Silver Bridge over
the Ohio River well Christmas time nineteensixty seven, where the entire bridge collapsed.

(27:32):
A lot of people died. Butthe thing that made that so weird
was that during Keel's investigation, thisis what he told me. Now I
wasn't there, but this is whathe said to me, that he had
been told that something catastrophic was goingto happen. Now, they didn't zero

(27:52):
in on this bridge, but that'sthe only thing after the aftermath could have
been. So yeah, there's somevery weird aspects to this. And when
I was a cop, I gotto tell you, if I got my
teeth sunk into something until I wassatisfied they stayed sunk. And this was

(28:17):
just one of those topics that gottabe honest, man, It's driven me
for many, many years. TheKeel's book and the whole Mothman prophecies thing
itself. The whole thing with Mothmanin and of itself is creepy and just
enough to kind of push somebody,I think, into that direction. But

(28:41):
then you know, your own experiencewould definitely I didn't know that you had
that experience. I could see howthat would drive you, you know,
to want to research this, especiallylike later on as you're older with an
investigative mind. Now you've had thisexperience of being a police officer and a
detective, and now you know youcan you have this skill set that you're

(29:03):
able to put to good use inyou know, in investigating these things and
approaching these subjects. The first timeyou started approaching these things, did you
use that investigator's tool set a crime? Yes, yes, I became see
my wife Vicki in nineteen eighty six, along with her business partner, a

(29:30):
woman by the name of Sherry Stark, began UFO magazine, and I got
in touch with her in eighty eightbecause at that time I had become friends
with the move on the Mutual UFOnetwork State director for the State of Idaho

(29:56):
fellow by the name of Don Mason, and he was another reason that I
began researching the human mutilation thing becausehe brought a case to my attention.
Well, I don't want to getsidetracked, but let's just say it was
a human that was apparently mutilated.And there were a lot of weird things

(30:22):
about the case, like the guywas found miles from his possessions, he
was nude with the exception of aexcuse me, a pair of briefs.
His feet were nude, they werenot dirty, that he had not been
walking anywhere. It was like hehad been picked up and then dropped.

(30:42):
So that really got me going.And I still had a bunch of law
enforcement contacts, and actually I hadhad one friend of mine, a buddy
of mine, who was a boy'sse PD detective. I had him do

(31:04):
so because I had medically retired ineighty six, all right, and this
was eighty eight and almost eighty nine. I had him conduct a NCIC search
back in DC. Okay. Iasked him if he would do this,

(31:25):
and he would. I was lookingfor any indication that there were any unexplained
deaths with curious okay features, mutilationsokay, involving human beings, and he

(31:48):
said he'd do it. I toldhim what the criteria was. Now at
that time, I got to tellyou that have you ever heard of the
Green River Killer? Yep? Okay, that guy was still active, primarily
praying upon prostitutes up in the Washingtonarea, state of Washington. But I

(32:13):
specified in my search criteria the statesof Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Nevada,
and Montana. Okay. And whenI gave it to him and he
said yeah, he said I'll inputthis. He said, look, he
said, this is a pretty bigarea. He said it'll probably be at
least a week. And I said, yeah, that's fine, that's cool.

(32:37):
And three days later he calls meup at home and he said,
what in the hell have you gottenme into? And I said, oh,
what are you talking about? Andhe said, I put that in.
A day or two goes by.Then I get called into my lieutenant's

(33:00):
office and he's chewing my ass andI said why. He said, well,
he wants to know what the hellI'm up to because he had been
called from DC. Now, theNCIC is run by the FBI, right,
and he was nervous in the serviceover this, And he said,

(33:25):
besides, they got back to methere was zero, zero cases anywhere matching
that criteria. Well, I knewthat was bullshit because of the Green River
case that was still ongoing up there, and a lot of those prostitutes had
been mutilated, so I knew somethingwas up. Now. A couple of

(33:49):
years after this, all right,and I had another good buddy, very
well known researcher by the name ofLarry Fawcet and his writing partner Barry Greenwood,
wrote a book called the UFO Thele let me think the UFO cover

(34:14):
up, based on primarily military andlaw enforcement reports. Now, they were
the people that originally exposed the nuclearoverflights of bases, including nuclear missiles being

(34:36):
made incapable of flying. They weresomehow, probably electronically interfered with to the
point where they were not usable.Now, this is a dirty little secret
in the whole UFO field, becausemost people, for whatever reason, don't
want to talk about those cases.And it happened in sixty seven, and

(35:00):
it happened again in the mid seventies, and as George Knapp found out after
the Soviet Union collapsed he traveled overthere, they had their nuclear weapons interfered
with by UFOs. So this wasa dirty little secret. But the reason

(35:21):
I bring this up, Larry Fawcetthad traveled out to North Dakota because well,
as I'm sure you know, thereare nuclear sites out there where we
have missiles, and they were beingbriefed and he was still Incidentally, Larry
had been a working cop. Hewas still a cop at the time when

(35:44):
he traveled out there. They weretalking about mutilations and I'm talking about primarily
cattle mutilations, and this sheriff,the chief law enforcement officer in the county,
brought them in. They had abig map up on the wall with

(36:07):
all these different colored little pins.This is for horses, This kellor is
for horses, this kellor is forcattle. And he was going on and
on describing what the different kellors meant. But Larry looked down at the map
and he saw one red pin stickingin there. So I walked up and

(36:31):
he asked the sheriff. He said, what's that one? And the sheriff
kind of looked around pushed him offto the side. He said, well,
that was a person, and wedon't talk about that. So there
you go. Okay, it's adirty little secret, but it is apparently

(36:52):
very real. Thank god, it'snot that prevalent, but it does happen.
Well, yeah, I want to. I want to get into the
UFO aspect of things with you,hardcore and deep because I have so many
questions. I want to pick yourbrain about so many things before we do.

(37:13):
I want to pick up with onequestion in regards to the JFK assassination
and no, ladies and gentlemen,and is not whether or not they killed
JFK because he was gonna release UFOinformation. That's not why they killed them.
I could there's multiple reasons, butthat's not it. That's that's not
what I want to cover. Johnhas this unique ability as someone in the

(37:35):
know to debunk something in that isassociated with the JFK assassination in researching it,
and it's something that's a huge petpeeve of mine. And I found
this out last week. I waslike, Okay, I need to bring
this up on air. So Ithink don knows what I'm gonna what I'm
gonna reference. So there is avideo that has been around for a long

(37:59):
time that is the bane of myJFK research existence. And it is the
video where you supposedly see the SecretService agent in the Limo spin around and
supposedly pop Kennedy in the head.Now, that's not at all accurate.

(38:20):
That's not what happened. He wasn'tshot by any Secret Service agent in the
limo. I have discussed this withmultiple researchers, including the person who is
considered the Secret Service expert on theassassination, Vince Palomara, and he said
no. And in talking with youDon last week, this came up in

(38:44):
conversation and I was like, Oh, I need to talk to you about
this for the listeners, because I'veconstantly harped and droned on this. Please
explain in as much detail as youneed to the life span of that video
and why it is still the baneof modern JFK researchers existence. Well,

(39:07):
it all boils down to one,well actually two names why it's still out
there, and the primary reason isa guy by the name of Milton William
Bill Cooper, Okay, who Iknew. Unfortunately, I did several exposs

(39:30):
on him, including a couple ofradio shows on him, showing what a
bald faced, lying, scheming,opportunist, money grubbing piece of shit he
truly was. Now he's dead today. He's dead because in November of two

(39:51):
thousand and one down in Egger,Arizona. He gotten a shootout with the
police down there, after having threateneda medical doctor who inadvertently drove on his
property, chased him down. Thisdoctor pulled him out of his car at

(40:13):
gunpoint. Okay, scaring this poorguy damn near to death. Now,
at the time, Cooper was wantedon several federal charges, including tax evasion
and some other odds and ends.The IRS was after him, but everybody

(40:36):
knew where he lived, the Feds, the cops, everybody. But the
problem was everybody still remembered what happenedin Waco, Okay, and everybody remembered
what had happened. Well, it'sa sordid little story, but it ended

(40:59):
up. Cooper shot a deputy sheriff, a Marine Corps veteran of Desert storm,
in the head with a forty fivecaliber automatic. The police returned fire
and shot his ass off. Okay. Now, there are still people out
there today that think he was setup by the government because he was telling

(41:22):
the truth. Well, I'm hereto tell you that's horseship. I met
the guy originally in July of eightyeight, and I met him on the
world's first computer BBS system devoted towardUFOs and the paranormal. The name of
the system and it went around theglobe was the Paraet system. Okay.

(41:47):
Started in Fountain Hills, Arizona,by a guy the name of James Spyser,
Jim Spiser. Now I could goon and on about that, but
I met Cooper when Cooper came onthe system in Arizona on Jim's personal board,
talking about a situation that allegedly happenedabout ten, nineteen sixty six,

(42:16):
or maybe nineteen sixty seven. It'sbeen a long time since I went over
that stuff. But he was onboard a diesel submarine called the USS Ty
Route, Okay, he was onwatch daytime and they were steaming along and

(42:39):
allegedly, according to Cooper's story,this gigantic, huge UFO and he said
at the time it was roughly thesize of an aircraft carrier, blew out
of the ocean, flew up intothe clouds and above the clouds. And

(43:00):
he said, a short time later, if not the same object, then
one almost identical to it came outof the clouds and boom back into the
ocean. Now that was his originalstory. Well, okay, I could

(43:22):
accept that. But then, likemany people in this field, the story
grew by leafs and bounds geometrically.Okay, before you knew it, there
was some other researchers out there.As a matter of fact, one of

(43:45):
them wrote the very first book onthe Roswell incident, a guy the name
of William Moore, Bill Moore andhis partner at the time, Jamie Chanderra,
who had been a television news producer. Now, a lot of crap
happened, and I began to detectsome bs with this guy, and then

(44:13):
I saw how he could turn onsomebody on a dime and from fully supporting
somebody to attacking them as a governmentagent. Now, during all this period
of time, I had met JohnLear, been to his house, had

(44:34):
drinks with him in his basement inhis den Okay. And in November of
eighty eight, Lear had called me. I flew down to Vegas from Idaho.
He had called me in Idaho andsaid, I've got this video.
You won't believe what's in this video. He said, Look, I'm giving

(45:00):
a lecture. And this was likea week before Thanksgiving. I'm giving a
lecture here at one of the hotelsto the group known as the Former Intelligence
Officers. Okay, he said,if you'd like to, he said,
come on down, you be myguest. So I said, okay,

(45:21):
sure. So I flew down andwent over to his house, and then
he grabbed this VHS tape this videoout, popped it into his DVD player
or VHS player, I guess,and turned it on and it was obviously

(45:44):
from the Zapruder film, but therewas no keller in it. Okay,
all the keller had been removed.It was like watching a black and white
thing. Now I knew the Zapruderfilm originally was in keller, right.
So I'm watching this and when Ifirst sawt, I got to say,

(46:07):
my breath caught in my throat becauseas they're driving along, just immediately before
JFK is shot, and it wasobvious, Okay, it had to be
a high velocity. I mean,I know about gunshots. I've been shot
a couple of times myself. Isaw that, and as I'm watching it,

(46:31):
for just a split second, itlooked like a forty five caliber automatic
appeared between the driver and the passenger. Secret Service agents just as Kennedy was
shot, and I looked at Leir, and I said, what the hell

(46:53):
was that? He said, well, you saw it. I said,
are you saying the Secret Service agentshot him? And he said, well
yeah, I said, John,I said, my god, they were
in the President's limousine. There wasno top on it, as we all

(47:16):
know. I said, there werethousands of people everywhere. How in the
hell could somebody have pulled that off? And missus Kennedy not said what happened?
She was right there. You rememberher climbing up over the back of
the car to retrieve a piece ofKennedy's skulld Do you remember that? Yeah?

(47:39):
I do, land it right overthe trunk. Yeah. Yeah.
So anyway, I said, ifthat were true, don't you think she
had been killed too? And hey, look they also had the governor of
Texas and his wife in the car. Let's not forget that. So anyway,

(48:01):
but I got to say it.It caused me to pause. Well,
we go to this lecture. I'msitting there, I'm watching Leer and
he's laying all this out and heruns this video and I had asked him,
I said, John, where inthe hell did you get that?

(48:22):
And he played coy with me.You wouldn't tell me. Well, I
found out, but he asked aquestion, and I'll never forget my reaction.
And it's probably a hell of alot easier to believe today than it
was what thirty odd years ago,almost thirty five years ago, he asked

(48:50):
the audience. Now, these areall former government employees, intelligence people,
etc. If you would have beenordered by your boss, you're super your
director to help and assist in carryingout an assassination of the president, would
any of you gone along with it? Raise your hand? For freaking people?

(49:15):
One of them was a woman raisedtheir hands, Buddy, I couldn't
believe that one. Okay, Sonow I'm curious, and I when I
sent my teeth into something, andI start doing some digging, and I
came up with the guy behind thefilm this videotape. His name was Lars

(49:43):
Hansen. Now, Hansen was akind of a rogue researcher reporter, but
he had been caught by the Cahonessince the Kennedy assassination happened. Okay,
Bond determined he was going to findout what it was. Well, we

(50:06):
met two researchers up in northern California, Goby named Adams and a guy the
name of Perry I believe it was, and they got together and pulled their
money and were able to buy eithera fourth or fifth generation copy of the
Zuppruter film and they wanted to dosome forensics on it. So what they

(50:32):
did was they got it to alab. I guess a couple of these
guys knew what they were doing,and they got rid of all the keller
because they wanted to enhance the contrastsin this video, which they did.
Okay, now in nineteen sixty three, all right, what did now you're

(50:57):
not old enough, probably Popeye?What did men use on their hair?
We talked about this last week.Things like brill cream exactly exactly, they
swept their hair back with brill cream. Well, when they enhanced the contrast,
Okay, there was a light reflectionoff of Kellerman. That was the

(51:22):
Secret Service passenger Roy Kellerman, Okay, off of his head, and for
just a split second, honest togod, it did look like a gun.
But hey, I carried a fortyfive caliber automatic for years. All

(51:43):
Right, I know a forty fivelike I know the back of my hand.
And what does a forty five automaticdo? Well? Number one,
it's a big, heavy, veryslow speaking of arms, okay, velocity
about eight hundred with military ball ammunition, about eight hundred and fifty eight hundred,

(52:08):
maybe seventy feet a second. Butit has a healthy recoil, and
it has a very healthy muzzle blast. None of that was a parent in
this video. And that was oneof the things that kind of you know,
I picked up on right away.I didn't see any muzzle blast.

(52:30):
I didn't see any recoil. Andif you're holding a forty five and one
hand, okay, and you're firingit, you're gonna get recoil. It's
gonna it's gonna kick your hand up. Now, I was curious about that,
so I talked to uh So whenI got when I met Lars,

(52:51):
and I'm talking to him and Ipoint all this out, I said,
Lars, I said, what wereyou guys looking for? Well, we
were looking for the conspira. Well, of course you where everybody is,
okay. And incidentally, speaking ofconspiracy, one time, when I was
talking to John Keel about it wasUFO stuff and the human mutilation thing,

(53:12):
because he had turned me on toa human mutilation. When I was talking
to him about that, he saidHey, you know who has the heaviest
death rate in conspiracy researchers bar noneall across the board. And I said
who? He said, JFK researchers. At that time he claimed there were

(53:36):
over two hundred that it died.And this was in the late eighties,
maybe nineteen ninety. All right,JFK researchers apparently were dropping like flies.
So anyway, I'm talking to Lars. Finally Lars saw the light. Now,
the reason John Lear got this videowas back in the day, and

(54:00):
we're talking probably eighty seven eighty eight. Lars had gone to Vegas and he
had heard about John Lear. Now, one thing I hadn't mentioned yet,
and a lot of your audience maynot be aware of it. John Lear
was the son of William Lear ofLear Siegler Corporation and the Lear Jet.

(54:24):
Okay, he was the big kahuna. Now, John was an FAA champion
boy. He was a pilot.John was He had flown for a contract
airline in Southeast Asia. I believeit was Continental Okay, during the war.

(54:47):
God only knows what they were packingaround, but okay, Lear had
their credentials. He was a toprated pilot. Now what got him into
this. If you're interested, I'lltell you what he told me. But
anyway, so Lars thought that Johnwas the heir to the Lear fortune.

(55:15):
Okay, what he was looking forwas somebody to finance his research. What
he didn't know and later was tofind out. And then he had agg
all over his face. John Learhad been disowned by his father. Okay,

(55:37):
he disowned him, all right,didn't give him a nickel. So
you know, John was living metaphoricallyspeaking at the time, basically hand him
out. Now, his wife wasinvolved in the media in some way,
but I mean they were paying thelight bills and they were doing all that

(55:58):
stuff. But he didn't have themoney to give the research. But Lars
had given him a copy of thisvideo and he said, please don't give
that to anybody. This was strictlyfor research. So the first thing Lear
does is turn around, copy itand send a copy to Bill Cooper.

(56:21):
Now Cooper saw that, and boy, the dollar signs popped up in his
eyes. He was starting to goon the lecture tour and suddenly this became
one of his major draws on thelecture tour. Now at that time in
Vegas, before he got fired,there was a radio show down there called

(56:45):
the Billy Goodman Happening, and Imatter of fact, I even appeared on
that show once or twice. Andthen I threatened to sue Billy out of
existence. Well that's another story.When he had Cooper on there after we
did at UFO Magazine, the firstof several exposays on Cooper, and he

(57:10):
had gone on Goodman's show and wasslandering me, slandering the wife. Somebody
called me up at home and said, are you listening to this? And
I said no, and he said, man, I'm telling you. He
said you better tune into that.So I did. I heard some and
then I immediately got on the phonegot his producer and I told him,

(57:31):
I said, this is Don Ecker, and here's your choice. Okay,
I'm being slandered on Billy's show,so you can either give me to Billy
right now or my lawyer will becalling you tomorrow. He put me on

(57:52):
with Billy, and then Billy wasquite the huckster and the shyster. He
started building this up as the fightof the century. Donniker and Bill Cooper
right here on the Billy good InhabitingAnd I've got audio of this, by
the way, anyway, so thatwas something aside. So Lars, by

(58:15):
this time had been convinced that thiswas absolutely all wrong. Lair had screwed
Lars by sending it to Cooper.Cooper was selling copies of this. He
sent his tape to Japan, hadit rekilorized, sent it back, and

(58:38):
then Cooper started making copies of this, and he was selling it at all
his lectures for like thirty thirty fivebucks a pop. Okay, and oh
it was it was a dog andpony sex show. Let me tell you.
But this guy Cooper, I neverin my life saw anybody more brazen

(59:04):
than this guy. And one ofthe problems was he had a severe drinking
problem. And there were two Hollywoodguys out here who when they first became
introduced to Cooper, thought he hada hell of a potential there to go

(59:25):
on the lecture arena. And Cooperhad been billing himself as having worked in
Navy intelligence in Hawaii, which waspure bullshit because I ran that down.
I contacted the Navy and it wasn'ttrue. But at any rate, the

(59:46):
two Hollywood guys' names and one justrecently passed away Michael Callenka who was an
actor and producer. Do you rememberthe movie kat Baloo with Lee Marvin and
Jane Fawn, Well, Michael Callenhad a prominent part in that and his
buddy mister Douglas Dean who dud Dean, who was a Hollywood executive going back

(01:00:10):
to the late forties early fifties.I mean, these guys were the real
McCoy when it came to the entertainmentindustry. So they started putting Cooper on
the lecture tour and a big partof it was this video and Cooper one

(01:00:30):
day, I guess, he gotkind of sober and he looked to see
how much money they had made thathe hadn't received any yet, and he
decided he was going to fire theseguys and keep all the money for himself.
Well not according to the contract hesigned. So one night he got

(01:00:57):
shit face drunk and he began callingthese guys in the middle of the night.
Now they both had answering machines,okay, and I got a copy
of all those tapes. As amatter of fact, I used some of
them in my radio expose. Buthe was threatening them. Doug Dean at

(01:01:21):
the time was probably around sixty nine, seventy years of age. He lived
in Arizona, where Cooper had moved, and Cooper had called him up three
or four times in the middle ofthe night, leaving these increasingly more threatening
messages on his answering machine. Soin the wee hours of the morning,

(01:01:45):
Doug, knowing what a lunatic thisguy, was, jumped in one of
his cars. He had several cars. He wasn't married, so he didn't
have to worry about a wife,but he jumped in one of his cars
and took off to stay the restof the night with a friend. Well,
he came back in the morning andall four tires on his other vehicle

(01:02:14):
had been slashed. Okay, Now, his gardener was there when Cooper showed
up, and his gardener witnessed Coopertrying to break into his house, and
when he couldn't do that, Iguess he got frustrated and pissed, probably
still hungover, pulled out a knifeand cut all the tires. The police

(01:02:36):
got involved, So I mean,you know, this was a sad situation.
Then out here in La I guessit was about nineteen ninety. I
think there was a big lecture thatCooper was putting on at the Hollywood High

(01:02:58):
School and some of the radio stationsaround the area were running promos for it,
and Lars Hansen was out here thenand he confronted Cooper. They ended
up doing a radio show. Now, Popeye, you probably can imagine that
if I got going, I wouldn'tlet somebody scream over me. Okay,

(01:03:22):
there'd be a screaming match right there. But Lars kind of backed off and
let Cooper steam steamroller room, whichlater I gave him a bucket of shit
about that. Gave Lars a bucketyshit about that. But the guy,
the guy was insidious. But thebottom line is that that video is as

(01:03:46):
phony as a three dollar bill,Okay, And I don't care how green
it is. It just wasn't true. And a lot of people know that.
But there are still those people outthere, for whatever reason, are
convinced it's real. Yeah. Igot to answer your question, yo,
No, I see, I hadknown this is part of like I had

(01:04:09):
learned a lot of this while talkingto you last week, and that's why
I framed it the way I did, because I knew you'd lay it out
in detail. So you know,I had known that people A had issues
with Cooper back in the day,but I didn't realize that, like the
the person that spearheaded it and wasactually taking him on was you. And

(01:04:30):
you laid all this out for me, and that's where this information about the
video came up. And that videohas been a huge foreign in my side
for years because in the JFK researchcommunity, there's you know, when you're
trying to bring real facts to people, somebody will inevitably drop in, you
know, a comment, oh,the driver shot him, that's who did

(01:04:54):
it, and you're like, no, A, it's not that simple.
B. You're raw. See thatvideo is crap, And I would explain,
to the best of my ability,I've always told the listeners, well,
Bill was wrong. Maybe you know, he's not alive now so we

(01:05:15):
can't ask him, but maybe hewould change his opinion, you know,
given the information he has access tonow, maybe his view was just skewered.
But then you told me this wholestory about the video, and I
was like, okay, so notonly is the video completely fake, but
they all knew it was bullshit andthey still pushed it. I mean,
like you said at first when yousaw it with John Lear, you were

(01:05:39):
like, wait, what am Ilooking at? Like a first glance,
it did look like that, butthen you used logic and you dove deeper,
and then you realized after finding outthat it wasn't true and it wasn't
accurate, and you've talked about that. That's why I always knew that the
video was bullshit, and I knewit was wrong, and I knew it

(01:06:00):
was inaccurate, and I knew itwas edited. I didn't know that you
filled in that huge puzzle piece thatCooper was involved from the get go with
getting that out because people always say, well, you know Bill Cooper said
that. I'm like, well,that's nice. He was wrong. You
know some of the stuff that youknow he's talked about in the past,
his mystery Babylon stuff, all thatstuff about ancient mystery religions, Yeah,

(01:06:20):
that stuff is accurate, but thevideo was not accurate. And you know,
just because he talked about accurate informationdoesn't mean he wasn't doing things behind
the scenes or he wasn't off radioor off camera. He stole that video
right well, right right, hestole and he and I like, I

(01:06:44):
said to you, there's there's anotherand I won't I won't talk shit about
other people, but there's another prominent, well known conspiracy host who is a
bit bombastic who Cooper didn't like,Alex Jones. You mentioned his name right,
who reminded who reminds me very muchof that same shit. And I

(01:07:08):
brought this up to you last week. And I've talked about Alex's stuff before.
There's stuff you know. I won'tget into it because I don't want
to get sidetracked. The whole pointis there. I know that that is
a possibility, the story that youjust laid out with Cooper. I know
that you know, to some peopleit might be, well, this is
like mind blowing, But I knowthat it's possible for people that you see

(01:07:32):
on air to be completely not likethat and shit bags off air and backstabby
to everybody that they've ever worked with, because that's how Jones has been over
the years to different people in thealternative media. So it actually didn't surprise
me to learn this. In fact, I was glad that you were straightforward

(01:07:53):
and told me all this because like, at least I you know now I
have a fuller comprehension of that wherethat video came from, and my my
thoughts on that video being bullshit arecorrect. And now you've explained to the
listeners because I've been talking about thisfor years, and I just I knew
we had to get sidetracked about thisbecause it's important because as much information that

(01:08:14):
I bring out about I could,like the next couple of weeks, I'm
gonna be replaying a couple I didtwo interviews. It was a two part
series I did with a forensic investigator. She was a she did forensics.
She actually used to testify in courtall the time she was certified. She
wrote a book all about this andit was a like a forensic analyst's view

(01:08:39):
of all the evidence in the JFKassassination, you know, very in depth.
Well, the author passed away afew years back, and I'm not
able to get her on again.So I want, I'm going to play
this stuff, and inevitably, whenI play anything that's intricate and detailed,
where you have something that like thisintricate and she lays out her her name

(01:09:02):
is Sherry Feister, and she laysout all of this intricate, intricate information
and she, you know, paintsthis extremely intelligent, logical picture for you
as to why the official version ofevents was in accordance to the assassination is
bullshit. And I could lay allthat out and someone would go it was
the limo driver. Didn't you seethat video? Like like, oh,

(01:09:26):
I'm sorry, I've never seen thatvideo in all the years of research.
You just blew my mind. Everythingthat I know is bullshit because you saw
a five second video snippet that somebodyput out that couldn't quite possibly ever have
been altered. And now here youfilled in that background the wall. See
here's the problem with a lot ofthese people. I And look, I'm

(01:09:48):
not blowing my horn. I'm juststaate. In fact, I was there
when it happened. Okay, Iwas there. I witnessed that. I
witnessed a hell of a lot.Ufo Magazine. We were in the vortex
of almost everything that was happening backthen, Poppy, We were literally in

(01:10:11):
the vortex, you know, somuch, so much happened. And I'll
tell you there were a lot ofpeople that were angry at me, were
that would talk trash about me,call me a CIA asset, you know,

(01:10:34):
And back in those days, therewas no deadlier you know, insult
then to accuse you of being agovernment spy. Okay, Oh, he
was in the military. He didintelligence shit, Yeah, well I did,
you bet I did. That's gotnothing to do with this, Okay.

(01:10:55):
I've been out of the military sincenineteen seventy two. Uh And they
hated me because I will call bullshiton bullshit. All right, Well,
they wanted you see, it's kindof like you remember The X Files in
the nineties. No bigger TV showabout paranormal events UFOs than The X Files.

(01:11:18):
Dana Scully and Fox Malder the twoFBI, the intrepid, two FBI
agents, and Dana was the skeptic. Fox was the believer. But in
his office they had a picture ofthe Billy Meyer UFO hanging on the wall,
and underneath it it says, Iwant to believe, okay, And

(01:11:45):
that's the problem. People want tobelieve, but they don't want to use
their logic, okay to back thatup. And there's a lot of stuff
I'll tell you that I've been bamboozledover the years. Hell, yes I
have. Hey, there were someslicks, some bristly shysters out there,

(01:12:08):
but usually I'm eventually I see throughthe cramp and the bottom line was with
this thing with the driver shooting JFK. Look, it just didn't make sense.
You don't commit a public Hey,I was a cop. He did
homicides. You don't just shoot somebodyin front of thousands of people and witnesses

(01:12:35):
right there where the shooting is happeningand get away with it. Okay,
all these years later, over sixtyyears later, All right, somebody would
have come forward by now unless theywere all murdered, all right, which
now now that I think about it, a lot of them were murdered.

(01:12:56):
But something like this wouldn't get away. Ye. It's funny as the stories
of the witnesses that were murdered.I've always talked about other gunmen, you
know, but never the Secret Serviceagent turning around and popping jafka. Not
one person. I interviewed Beverly Oliver, who is the infamous Babushka lady.

(01:13:18):
She was standing like less than twentyfeet from Jack when he was shot.
And never once in all the timesI've talked to Beverly did she ever mention,
oh, by the way he spunaround the you know, the Secret
Service agent that was in the limowith him, spun around and shot him
she would have seen it. Imean, she was less than twenty feet

(01:13:39):
away. She would have clearly seenthe agent shoot him. So it's just
that's been a huge bane of likemy research existence getting it like trying to
because there's like I said, inevitablysomebody always brings that video up. So
thank you for taking the time toexplain to the audience why that video is
bullshit. And now I want tostay in the UFO vein with you,

(01:14:02):
because there's there's Again, this iswhy I called you legendary. You've been
around for so long done you've knownyou know so many people like John Lear,
but you also knew Zachariah Sitchen,which I found out that you and
Sitchen were very good friends. Andyou are very very obviously because you're a
friends with Sitchin and because of yourresearch, you're very well versed on the

(01:14:26):
Onunaki and you know the story ofthe Sumerian creation story and what I would
argue was pretty good evidence. Youknow that humanoids, the humanoids that were
here on the planet were screwed withby some other worldly intelligence. So let's
shift gears and get into Sitchen andlike how you met him, And then

(01:14:51):
I want to get into the Onnakiand you know, you know, any
little anecdotal things that you want tosay about Sitchen me you know his thought
about you know, the Onanachy andour creation. You know where you know
the origins of man Well I metZachariah after an appearance on Larry King Life.

(01:15:12):
Okay, this was back in nineteeneighty nine, right after the infamous
apparent landing of a UFO and occupantsclimbing out of the machine in the city
of Varonish. Now what makes thatparticular incident so breathtaking was that originally it

(01:15:43):
was reported by the TASS news agencySoviet Communist news agency TAS now TASS.
At the time. This was before, of course, the collapse of the
Soviet Union. Task was not knownfor having a sense of humor. Now,

(01:16:06):
up to that point, there hadbeen a number major UFO news stories
that had broken that if they evenappeared on the news, you had the
obligatory snicker, the grin, Ohboy, here comes another one. Wait,

(01:16:30):
will I tell you about this story? Okay, that kind of stuff
they derided the derision. There hadbeen the Bentwaters case at raf Woodbridge,
there had been the Jal Japan airlines. I forget now the designation on the

(01:16:50):
aircraft that was observed by FAA radarflying above Alaska with this huge UFO that
showed up. This was a famousstory. In eighty six, there was

(01:17:12):
the Golf Breeze case which had startedto happen, okay, with UFOs down
around Golf Breeze, Florida. Andwe were following. We When I'm say
we, I'm talking about the magazine. We were following all of these stories.
Okay. So when the varonish thinghappened, that was in October of

(01:17:38):
eighty nine, Larry King people calledus up and they ask, because I
was the director of research, ifI would come on and be willing to
talk about this. Well, ofcourse I was. Now in nineteen seventy
six. To jump back a fewyears, I used to haunt and libraries

(01:18:01):
because I was doing a lot ofresearch on different things, and I came
across the book that I had notheard about, had an unusual name for
the author. The name the titleof the book was The Twelfth Planet by
Zacharia Sitchin. Now, when Iwas in college, Popeye, my major

(01:18:25):
was history. I love history.I love it, and I've been deep
diving into history forever, okay,basically, and I took this thing home
and read it and reread. Itwas not an easy read, okay,

(01:18:45):
And I was intrigued by who thisauthor was, Zacharia Sitchen. So in
nineteen eighty nine, when I wenton there, I was not interviewed by
Larry King. Larry King was onone of his numerous honeymoons. He had
just at that time gotten married again. I don't know if his fourth time

(01:19:10):
or whatever. But Pat you Cannonwas the host. We all know who
Pat Buchanan is, right, Hewas on Nixon's staff during the Nixon administration
in nineteen ninety two. He triedto run for president. Very conservative guy.

(01:19:32):
But he was doing the show thatnight. So I get on there.
They introduced me the former detective.Okay, and look, I'm not
one to take those snid sly remarks, all right, because I'll call son

(01:19:56):
of a bitch out on it.But he didn't do anything like that.
So we're talking. They have thisguy on from some defense magazine in DC.
Who's the naysayer, the skeptic.Okay. So I basically laid the
story out as it had been reportedby Tess and I told Buchanon. I

(01:20:18):
said, look, I said,say what you want to about the Russians,
okay, but for them to reportthis story with a straight face,
those guys are not known for thesense of humor, okay. And he
totally agreed. So this other guyis sniping away. And incidentally, a

(01:20:43):
little side note, we went toone of the breaks. I didn't know
my mic was still hot, andI turned to one of the cameramen and
I said, who the hell isthat asshole? Okay, you heard it
in DC, So anyway, Iwould screw that. I didn't care.

(01:21:04):
But so we get we get backto the show, and I said,
look, this topic is incredibly ancient, and I mentioned Zachariah Sitchin's book The
Twelfth Planet and his name the author. Well, a week later, okay,

(01:21:30):
I get a letter at UFO magazineand it's from Sitchin, and I
think he sent me his phone number. So I called him up and he
was going to be coming out heregiving lectures and what have you. And
that's how I physically met him,and as a result, we became very

(01:21:51):
good friends. Now I'll tell youanother little story about Sitchen. He was
going to be this would have beenabout ninety eight, I think, or
ninety nine. At any rate,he was going to be in Las Vegas
for a lecture and I was verygood friends and as a matter of fact,

(01:22:15):
we were real tight buddies at thetime with Dwight Schultz. Now you
may know Dwight Schultz. He playedthe howling mad Murdoch on The A Team.
He played Lieutenant Barkley on Star Trekthe Next Generation, then he was
on Voyager. I mean this,this guy had been around a long time.

(01:22:36):
He played Robert Oppenheimer in the PaulNewman film Fat Man and Little Boy.
Okay, I remember when he wasshooting that. So anyway, Sitchen
was going to be out here andI got a call. I'm trying to

(01:22:57):
think. I think it was fromGeorge Knapp, and everybody knows who George
is, the kalas Cheneli news reporter. He was the guy that gave us
Bob Lazar. So either that orwell, at any rate, I got
a call. So they said,hey, don you know, Sitchen,

(01:23:19):
he's friends of yours. Do youthink he'd be interested? And us all
getting together and having dinner at thisrestaurant down in Vegas. A really beautiful
little Italian restaurant called Parma, AndI said, well, I don't know,

(01:23:40):
but I can call Zacharia and findout. Now, Zacharai's wife was
still alive then, and a fewyears later she died. And when she
did, that was the decline ofZachariah, because his son set and rose
and his wife, all right,he loved that woman dearly. But I

(01:24:03):
called him up and I said,hey, look, there's some people here
that would love to meet. You'dlove to take you out for dinner at
this really beautiful little Italian restaurant andwould you be interested. Well he was,
so his wife and if I remembercorrectly, her name was Rema,

(01:24:24):
his wife, and I and Zachariahand George Knapp and Dwight Schultz my wife,
VICKI and Lazarre's girlfriend and his buddyGene Huff. We all met.
I got a picture of that,by the way, on my Facebook page.

(01:24:46):
Okay, at dinner that night,beautiful, beautiful dinner, absolutely gorgeous
setting, really one for the agents, one that I'll never forget. But
yeah, it was. He wasquite He was quite a character. Now,
getting back to his thesis, ifyou read the twelfth planet, all

(01:25:13):
right, and he wrote an entireseries of books that are known collectively as
the Earth Chronicles, which deal mostly, although not entirely, with Sumerian culture,
but also over here in the NewWorld, with the Central and South

(01:25:39):
American cultures. Okay, the Maya, the Ankas, all the way back
actually to the Olmacs. All right. Now, this is his thesis in
a nutshell. Roughly four hundred plusthousand years ago, these beings that we

(01:26:03):
call the Anonnaki, which incidentally translatesas those who from Heaven to Earth,
came all right from the sky,Okay, came over here, and they
were in the search for rare minerals. All right. Their planet, which

(01:26:27):
Sitchen identified as being called Nebreu orNabiru, I should say, all right,
was having problems with its atmosphere.Now, this was the one part
of his thesis I always had ahard time with. Okay, this is
a very large planet. According toSitchen, it was a thirty six hundred

(01:26:51):
year orbit. We take our orbitis one year, three hundred and sixty
five days, divided into twenty fourhours a day, sixty seconds per minute,
et cetera. Okay, but theirorbit is thirty six hundred years now,

(01:27:15):
these beings came here and began miningfor gold. Now it sounds kind
of like a bullshit thing, right, but it's really not. Archaeologists have
discovered gold mines in South Africa thatthey've dated to over three hundred thousand years

(01:27:42):
ago. Now, who the hellwould have been mining gold three hundred thousand
years ago other than it's monetary valuethat we place on it today. Okay,
yeah, it's a beautiful metal,especially when it's refined, but it's
useless for anything like tools or weaponsor making knives knives out of it,

(01:28:11):
or or spear points because it's sosoft. It's a very soft metal,
So what else would you be usingit for? Well, at any rate,
According to the Sumerian account, whichSitchen translated, these beings needed it

(01:28:32):
to seed their atmosphere. I don'tknow if it was an ozone thing.
It's been a long time since Iread the twelfth planet amsphere. And they
needed to they needed to basically kindof like what we did with our ozone
layer, and they needed the goldto aerosolize into their atmosphere, which,

(01:28:57):
interestingly enough, do you know afew years ago that the the the Climate
Control crazies. One of the becausethey do weather modification, that weather modification
is real. One of the thingsthat they actually talked about spraying into the
sky and aerosolized form to fight climatechange was gold. So and as soon

(01:29:19):
as I heard that, I waslike, where have I heard this before?
Hmm, that's that's interesting. Butanyway, I thought i'd throw that
in there, because yes, itis a weird proposition that you would aerosolize
gold and spray it. But thatis what Sitchen said. The Sumerian story
said that they came here and theywere to mine gold exactly. Now.

(01:29:45):
The problem was all right, theyhad their minions mining the gold, and
they did it for quite a while, but then they had base what amounted
to immutinate poppeye. They said,basically, look, we've been doing this

(01:30:05):
for a long time. We're tiredof it. We ain't doing it no
more. So what do they do? Well? The short version is they
looked around at early proto humans andone of their gods said, hey,

(01:30:27):
why don't we take some of theseearly hominids, pour our essence into it,
okay, and make obedient workers.And the first one was called the
atom. The atom all right rightout of the Christian Jewish Bible, which

(01:30:56):
basically means the worker. Adam meansworker. So they started doing some genetic
manipulation. Now, surprisingly, backwhen we were still publishing UFO magazine,
we did a couple of issues onwhat we called the theme was Darwin's Black

(01:31:19):
Box in the magazine, and thiswas the apparent fact that humans were genetically
designed and manipulated. Okay, Nowby these gods, these so called gods.

(01:31:45):
Now, look, if you wereto run into an Annaki today,
they would be very easy to distinguishbecause they had, in comparison to us,
what's the average height of an adultmale today, somewhere between average Now
I'm saying five ten to what sixone six y two? Right? Five,

(01:32:10):
I'd say like five ten to sixtwo. Yeah, these guys,
by all accounts, are at leastfifteen or sixteen feet tall. Now,
just recently, one of the mostfamous Sumerians, okay, was a king

(01:32:36):
in the city of Er You areer named Gilgamesh. Are you familiar with
Gilgamesh? Yeah, the whole epicof Gilgamesh, which incidentally is the first
recorded literary story ever, and itcame out of Samaria. The epic of

(01:33:00):
Gilgamesh, who was apparently a realbeing. He actually existed, and this
guy had a bad reputation. Okay, had a bad reputation because, for
example, as king, and hewas full of you breee, he would

(01:33:25):
go around to everybody getting married,all right, as the king, he
could do that and if he likedthe look of the lady, he had
first DIBs on her. That kindof stuff. Okay, Yeah, there's
actually there's an actual term for thatthat's called and I can't remember what it's

(01:33:47):
called, but it's like right ofthe king or something, the first King
something like that, and it's basically, he has the right to be like,
oh, congratulations on getting married.Your wife's I'm going to bet her
before you do. Exactly. Yeah, he would do that kind of stuff.
So eventually they maneuvered Gilgamesh into goingout into the wilderness where he encountered

(01:34:15):
a wild man living with the animals, and a Q was his name,
and he sounds just like a sasquash. Okay, this was a very weird
thing. He sounds like a sasquatch. But they became best buddies after they
had a knockdown, drag out fightthat lasted for days. Okay, but

(01:34:42):
Gilgamesh was semi divine. Now whatthat meant was his father was a human,
but his mother was a goddess ora n Anunaki woman. All right,
they had relations and as a result, Gilgamesh is said to have been

(01:35:04):
about sixteen or seventeen feet tall.Now, what's weird about that? Right
before we invaded, we the Americansinvaded Iraq, archaeologists were working in the

(01:35:25):
former city of er and they believethey found Gilgamesh's tomb site, and they
were getting ready to begin excavating itwhen the war started. Guess what happened.
The US army blew into there,into or they drove everybody out,

(01:35:51):
secured the site, Okay, fences, armed guards, the whole nine yards,
and they took over this purported graveof King Gilgamesh. Now, if
that's true, and I personally thinkit very well might be true, what

(01:36:12):
were they looking for? They werelooking for writings, They were looking for
further insight into the ano'nuki. Whoknows, perhaps even artifacts that Gilgamesh might
have had from his divine mother.These are all fascinating questions. But then,

(01:36:35):
like everything else, Popeye, everythingwent black. No further word ever
came out about that, so wedon't know. Do I think it's likely
that if that was the actual burialside of Gilgamesh, you bet I do?
And do I think they would haveexcavated it and took everything. You

(01:36:58):
bet? I do? And doI think they will ever release any of
it, not in this lifetime.I agree with you one hundred percent.
And to add to that, andwe talked about this last week, one
of the first things that they didas well, upon entering a rock is

(01:37:18):
to go into the Bagnad Natural HistoryMuseum and blow the doors off of it.
And they proceeded to start removing cuneiformclay tablets that had all these stories
etched into them. Plus they tookall sorts of statues, and one of

(01:37:38):
them, it's this famous statue ofa reptilian female humanoid breastfeeding a human baby.
And the onunaki were said to beWhen you read this, if you've
read the descriptions of them, theymatch what would be called today as reptilians,

(01:38:01):
these like saurian creatures, And youknow, it makes you wonder,
why why was that a priority?I thought we were getting rid of weapons
of mass I mean, I knowthat's bullshit, but you know what I
mean, I thought we were goingin there. It's not bullshit. There
were weapons of right, well wegave them, well, the weapons they

(01:38:21):
had, we gave them. Wesold a lot of them too. But
don't forget, don't forget Saddam,who was a Sunni Moslem gassed okay,
the Kurds and others who were ShiaMoslims weapons of mass destruction, killing thousands
of them. So yeah, thatguy, that guy had weapons. Well,

(01:38:45):
there there was some stuff. Butmy point is you'd think that going
into a rock. The story waswe have to go get big bad Sadam,
right, we have to take himout. Why did we steal all
of this ancient culture first? Whyyou can figure that out? No,
right, it's I mean, it'sa little it's a little weird. Why

(01:39:06):
wouldn't they want us to know that? Hmmm, it's kind of weird.
Are he's still keeping secrets from theAbraham Lincoln assassinations? That's true as well.
There's a lot of Look, there'sa the Lincoln assassination. There's a
they didn't I don't think they killedJohn Wilkes Booth, all right, that's

(01:39:28):
a We could do a whole showabout that. But I mean, I
don't think that they killed Booth.A friend of mine who this is like
one of his specialties. He's beenon my show with me over the years
a couple hundred times. His nameis Steve Stars. He, along with
the Booth family, tried to getJohn Wilkes Booth's like through the courts.

(01:39:51):
They tried to get the grave exhumedthe family. His own family wanted his
grave exhumed because they didn't believe thatit was him in the grave, and
the court wouldn't do it. Thecourt said no, we're not doing that,
and they were like, that's ourfamily. We want the grave of

(01:40:12):
zoomed. The court told them,no, gee, that's weird. Why
if there's nothing to hide, andthe court the family has a legitimate,
you know question about it, whyignore them and blow them off anyway?
It's they are good at hiding stuff. Most of the stuff that Saddam did
have during the First Gulf War theyblew up when they blew up Camisia,

(01:40:36):
and a lot of that shit blewdownwind over top of the troops that were
stationed down there, and a lotof that got it's not solely responsible for
what they call Gulf War syndrome,but a lot of the symptoms and a
lot of the illnesses came about fromthem blowing up. And the reason they

(01:40:58):
blew that shit up was because it'smade in the USA on the side of
those weapons, and that would havelooked really weird if that had come out.
Well, don't like, don't forget, don't forget. In the eighties,
all right, Saddam was our ally. Yeah, he was the see
I they fought a major war withIran. Okay, they were killing Iranians.

(01:41:24):
Oh, helter skelter man okay,and then of course an Iraqi jets
shot up a navy ship. Yeah, there was a I mean, there's
there's a lot of stuff people don'tknow. There's a famous picture of Rumsfeld
from back in that time in theeighties when because he was in a lot

(01:41:45):
of people don't realize this either,that Rumsfeld was in during the Reagan Bush
administration and there's a great picture ofhim where him and Saddam are shaking hands.
Well, that's when they sold himall these weapons, and and then
later on they were like, oh, that's a bad look for him.
To have chemical munitions that they madein the USA, and he had stuff
from Russia, and there was stufffrom I think there was stuff from China,

(01:42:10):
Russia, America, and I wantto say there was one other country.
Do you remember when he was tryingto build the super cannon, oh,
Saddam, Yes, Iraq arms manufacturerby the name I think it was
Bull was his name, Okay,who ended up dying mysteriously. The gun

(01:42:33):
itself, yeah, really, thegun itself could have literally launched satellites into
orbit. But the big fear atthe time was that they would use this
to bombard Israel. Now, let'snot forget. And this was something I

(01:42:54):
reminded somebody the other day about.In nineteen eighty Saddam had a active,
rolling right along nuclear weapons program attemptingto manufacture well getting getting enough I guess
plutonium to start building bombs. AndIsrael went in and took that site totally

(01:43:21):
out. Do you remember that eightyone? Oh? Yeah? Yeah,
So you know, when you're gettinginvolved in the Middle East, man,
I don't care if it's five thousandyears ago or last week. You've got
a problem on your hands. Tohornets nest dude, I mean and like
when I I always say I havea caveat, I say, well,

(01:43:45):
God's not a real estate agent.So I think, you know, everyone
fighting over whose piece of land itis is stupid. But I think there's
deeper stuff to it, Like onthe outside, if you look at it
just on a religious, a regularreligious level, people already are willing to
die. And how much blood hasbeen spilled in that sand, you know,
over thousands of years. Look,look, I had a conversation with

(01:44:09):
Zachariah one time. He one ofhis books, and it's worth tracking down
and getting is called the Wars ofGods and Men. Now, all those
and Unaki, according to the Samerianrecords, were one dysfunctional bunch of assholes,

(01:44:32):
okay, And according to their records, different gods took over different spots
around the globe, and they werethey were fighting with each other, and
their surrogate troops were humans that wereunder their control. So they tell their

(01:44:59):
their human army go often and killeverybody over there. They went marching off.
But here's the little known fact.There are areas in the Middle East
that are clearly the recipient of nuclearweapons. Over five thousand or more years

(01:45:23):
ago. Nuclear weapons were detonated overthere, not ours. Okay, we
were still trying to figure out howto make bronze swords, but somebody else
had them and used them. Okay. India is another place where they're still

(01:45:44):
encountering lethal radioactivity today from what apparentlywas a nuclear war. So hey,
we don't know, pal what wedon't know? No, and their mainstream
religion, the people of India,like if you read the Bag of Ghita
or the Anuma Elish, they talkabout space battles. In fact, there

(01:46:09):
were characters that what's his name fromuh Lucas used to create, like Darth
Vader. Darth Vader actually comes froma character out of the Bag of a
Gita. Let me ask you aquestion. Did you read my paper that

(01:46:29):
I wrote on disclosure? I startedto, I did not finish it.
And that was actually my last questionI wanted to ask you was about I
wanted to The reason I asked Thereason I ask is because well, if
you haven't read the whole damn thing, Popeye, you son of a bitch,
you said you were going to readit. I know I read.

(01:46:53):
I got it, got about halfwayread today, Okay, I was working
all day Okay, So anyway,I talk about what the ultimate core secret
to the entire UFO conundrum, whichis protected by an SAP, a special

(01:47:14):
access program. I came up withwhat I believe the core secret is,
and it involves interstellar warfare in nearEarth space. So you got to finish
reading that, dude, because you'rethe one that just mentioned fighting in space,

(01:47:34):
and it very likely is going onright now today as you and I
are talking space. This is oneof the reasons, one of the reasons
that they won't ever disclose what theUFO thing is all about. Okay,
So a friend of mine who's anold school researcher and documentary filmmaker. His

(01:47:58):
name's Christopher Everard. He's come onbefore and we've talked about he's he's made
a ton of documentaries, but hedid a whole secret space series and uh,
he's come on before and we've talkedabout this. They had, uh
and he's interviewed, you know,retired astronauts and stuff. And from his
research, he and from their ownwritings and their own just from NASA,

(01:48:23):
they had what they called hunter killersatellites up in the skies in the the
since like the late seventies and peoplethink, well, they're of course they're
they're looking for the Russians, right, No, And then you see there's
there's I don't know if you've everseen like the footage from the STS missions.
I'm sure you might you have,but there's there's a piece of footage

(01:48:45):
where you see the Earth and theEarth is like here right, and it's
in the lower left hand corner,and you can you can it's it was
the cameras that were recording this.And you see this object coming in from
outer space into Earth at a highrate of speed, like if this were

(01:49:05):
a human vessel, it would beripping apart. There's no way this thing
could be coming in and be ahuman vessel. And you see it's like
this blur of light and you seeit coming in and as it you see
it like head into the planet.And then because a good section of the
planet is like off camera, youdon't see it, but you see it
zip down and you see this flashof light from down by the camera your

(01:49:30):
lower left corner, and all ofa sudden, you're almost correct and you
see the thing take off and thenyou see this flash of light follow it.
So it's like no, the hellis there? No, No,
I'm the guy that broke that storySTS forty eight. Yes, I broke
that originally on NBC and then onLarry King Live, where I had a

(01:49:55):
famous shootout with Jim Obert from fromHouston from NASA, and at the end
of the program Larry King said,and he was pissed off. I didn't
know it at the time. Ihope you've enjoyed this edition of Donnocker Live
that Oh, I'm dead serious thatparticular Shuttle mission. They were above Australia

(01:50:25):
and New Zealand, okay, andthey're flying along STS forty eight. This
was in September of ninety one,and a UFO, actually a couple of
UFOs, rose above the limb ofthe Earth. Now, there were a
couple of very odd other things outin space that looked like almost like a

(01:50:53):
let me get my hand here inthe camera, going like this. Okay,
This uf came up between them andsuddenly there was a brigand flash of
light and you can see this shot. And I think it was the weapon
system under Reagan that they developed calledBrilliant pebbles flying at hypervelocity right at this

(01:51:17):
UFO. This UFO takes a violentone hundred and forty five degree turn,
tripling or more its speed, shootsout into space and then eventually flies back
around okay, into the frame.Now, NASA tried to say that that

(01:51:41):
thing was frozen urine from a wastewaterdump. It wasn't. Okay, well,
that did not look like anything frozenfloating around. That was actually the
wastewater dump was. About three minuteslater, I had the whole video.
That video was beamed directly from theshuttle down to a TV station in Dundalk,

(01:52:06):
Maryland, and I had a frienddown there, a guy, a
UFO researcher by the name of DonRash, who got all that and then
he well, he watched it andhe called me up and he said,
look, you ain't gonna believe thisthing. So he sent me a copy
of it out. Now, thisis another whole story which I don't think

(01:52:31):
we have time for, but thiswill be a good reason to come back.
The CIA got involved in that situation. I had called up some friends
who came over to my house tosee this video. I told them what
I was told about it. Anddoctor Bruce mcabee, do you know who

(01:52:55):
that is? His name sounds familiar. Well, he was a naval optical
physicist okay, and a UFO researcher. One of the only people I know
that had a government job that couldfreely investigate UFOs. As it turns out,

(01:53:16):
he would go over to the CIAand Langley he lived back there a
couple of times a week and havelunch and talk to the folks about UFOs,
UFO research and UFO researchers, whichI happened to be one. Now,
I got to say, prior tothat day, I had never had

(01:53:40):
a private conversation with maccabee. Afterthat day, I never had another private
conversation except when I brought him onmy radio show and grilled him and he
couldn't remember anything, of course,but that guy had been sent out to
see what we were going to dowith that video. Now, as it

(01:54:02):
turns out, I had a lotof contacts in the media, Okay.
One of them was a guy overat the TV show Hard Copy, a
guy with the name of Dean Vallas, who immediately jumped on that. And
then Tom Farmer, who was aproducer on Larry King Live. That I

(01:54:23):
knew that I had called him up. He had me go down to CNN
in LA and beam him a copyof that bat and back and then he
got hot to trot. So thiswas a big story, but like so
many other things, it was suppressed. However, we had a source in

(01:54:44):
DC that called me up a daylater after that show and said, don
no. Two days later, hesaid, don have you guys heard anything
since your appearance on Larry King Live? And we hadn't. I thought we
he would get calls from news mediaoutlets all over the country. Nothing.

(01:55:05):
He said, well, I wantyou to know something and I said,
what's that? He said, youpissed off a lot of people at the
Pentagon and I said, what doyou mean? He said, they were
not happy you had that and yougot it on TV. Oh and by
the way, you know that feedthat came down from the shuttle. Yeah,

(01:55:25):
well it's encrypted. Now you'll neversee another live event from space unless
it's either vetted first or it's intime delay. And it's been like that
ever since. So you're the guythat wrecked it for everybody. I am,
well, I didn't know that youbroke that video. Yes, that

(01:55:47):
video is incredible. When you saidas soon as you talk about space weaponry,
and like intergalactic battles, and it'slike, well, that's the first
thing I thought of was my brainwent back to seeing that years ago,
like, you can't tell me that'snot Oh, that's floating p No,
it's not. It's not frozen urine. Stop it, NASA, stop it.

(01:56:09):
Quit your bullshit, because that's justthat's not what that is. That's
not you know what NASA stands for. Rights. Never a straight answer,
Yeah, yeah, there's a couple. There's a horrible one too that I
won't repeat. It's a it's ahorrible one, but yes, never a
straight answer. Is the correct shouldbe the correct the agency's name. Yes,

(01:56:31):
they they lie through their teeth aboutso much done. I'm just gonna
have to bring you back on becausewe're we're almost out of time, and
I'm just gonna have to bring youback on in a couple of weeks because
I want to get more into this. This whole topic of you know,
space space battles and and space fighting, I mean, space force is out

(01:56:54):
in your face. There's the wholeidea of the I don't know if you've
ever heard of the idea of thesolar wardron program. Okay, all right,
there's so and that goes back tolike the late eighties. So there's
so many questions and so many thingsthat you know I have for you just

(01:57:14):
in relation to that. So you'redown to come on in a couple of
weeks again and have another great enlighteningconversation because this went by like that.
Yeah, yeah, I should beI should be free. Sure, but
I'll let you know one way.Yeah, we'll figure out. We'll just
have one question. I'll make sureI read the paper five five five time

(01:57:35):
or seven because I was getting intouch with Skywatcher. Where the hell is
Popeye? Seven? Your time?Seven? Your time? Okay, Don,

(01:57:56):
this has honestly just been an amazingshow. Thank you so much for
two hours tonight. Man. Reallyyou are a legend and I appreciate you.
I really do well. Thank you. You. You just are a
fountain, a fountain of information.Ladies and gentlemen, tune into Don's radio
show Don shamelessly plug yourself really quick, Dark Matters Radio on kg R A

(01:58:19):
dB Mondays at four o'clock Pacific timesseven pm Eastern, and we we tear
it apart whatever it is. Hejust had a great show on Monday.
Should go back and listen to thearchives. Ladies and gentlemen, he did
it. Oh did you hear thatshow? Oh yeah, I was listening

(01:58:41):
to it live. It was aIt was a great show, excellent.
I suggest everyone go listen to it. It was just Don does a great
broadcast and it was pretty neat.He had a psychic on and she seems
to be the real deal. I'llleave it at that. Yeah, Don
told me off air that she wasthe real deal, so I take his
word for it. Ladies and gentlemen, we are out of time. I'm

(01:59:02):
gonna leave you with my fit asI always do, with some posititivity,
positivity, and my favorite quote fromMartin Luther King Junior. Darkness cannot drive
out darkness. Only light can dothat. Hate cannot drive out hate.
Only love can do that. Thankyou all for tuning in tonight. We'll
catch you all again next week.We're out of here.