Hot Takes & Humble Truths: Nik Walker’s Rules for Rest, Realness, & Radical Joy

Ever felt like you had to earn your right to rest or be heard or that asking for help is harder than hitting a Broadway high note?

This week on Radical Joy, we’re rolling out the red carpet for Nik Walker—a dynamo of stage, screen, and sincere self-reflection. From Hamilton to handling hard feelings, Nik gets real about mental health, humility, and the radical magic of admitting you don’t have it all figured out. (Spoiler: nobody does.)

🎭 Come for the Broadway cred, stay for the cartoon-deep wisdom and snack-fueled truth bombs. 🎢 ADHD, anxiety, and why being “a beautiful mess” beats faking perfection
🧠 “Can I defuse this bomb myself?” — how Nik tackles big feels before they tackle him
💬 Feedback without freakouts: “Don’t hear what I didn’t say” is the T-shirt we all need
🛠️ From venting to investigating—how to handle your own heaviness with heart
🌪️ What to do when you’re the eye of someone else’s emotional hurricane
🎭 Why Nik still feels like he “snuck in the back door” of Broadway—and how that’s a blessing
🧃 Rest, snacks, and naps that slap—Nik’s radical rejection of hustle culture
🥁 Punk rock curiosity + radical rest = the plot twist we didn’t know we needed
🌍 A hot take from the pale blue dot: life’s too big to sweat the small stuff alone
🪞 Putting down the ego (gently!) and picking up more grace—for yourself and your people

Whether you're carrying too much or just craving a little calm—this episode is your reminder to pause, get curious, and breathe.

If it resonated, leave us a review, share it with a friend, and snag your Radical Joy sticker by sending us a screenshot. 💌✨ See you next week—until then, Love y’all! 

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/radical-joy-with-james-bullard--5644728/support.

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Take care of yourself, take care of each other, and breathe!  
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Got something on your mind? James never runs out of things to say, so tell us what you want to discuss!   

Remember there is no shame in joy or for asking for what you need.  

Leave a review, send us a screenshot, and we’ll mail you a sticker! See you next FRIDAY for another dose of Radical Joy.  

James is not a therapist, but you’re not alone. If you're in crisis, call 988 for professional help.  

For non-emergencies, Psychology Today can connect you with support and therapists who fit your needs.  

This podcast and CLW Studios content are not therapy or a substitute for it. Guest opinions are their own.  

We're here for insight and encouragement but always seek professional support when needed.  

This episode was Produced and edited by Kerri J of CLW Studios

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, friends, so happy to have you here with us
today at Radical Joy. If you've been here before, welcome back.
If this is your first time with us, well we're
glad you're here. Each week, we're here with you talking
about things that weigh on our minds and hearts, hoping
if you're dealing with something similar, we can adjust our
perspectives as you listen. Hey, if you're struggling with something
that needs immediate attention, please know that health is available.

(00:35):
Just on nine eight eight nationwide in the US to
reach the Mental Health and Suicide Crisis Hotline. All of
us here at COW Studios believe that mental health is
a vital part of our well being. The more people
we meet and the more places we go, the more
we realize how important it is to make people aware
of the fact that there is no shame in enjoying

(00:57):
the parts of our lives that are incredible. It's time
for some radical Joy, and this week, the three fingers
pointing back at us are for our guest, Nick Walker,
a Boston native, adhd ear and unqualified NYU professor who
survived in this industry for twenty years and counting. Broadway
roles include Sir Galahad and the twenty twenty three revival

(01:19):
of spam alot Otis Williams in Ain't Too Proud and
Hamilton as Burr. On screen, he has been seen on
Blue Bloods, Law and Order SVU, and most recently in
the Apple TV Plus film The Instigators, alongside his hometime
his hometown hero Matt Damon. As a writer, Nick's cartoon
Cleaners is in development at Warner Brothers Animation and Amazon Studios.

(01:44):
Nick can be found living in the city with his
amazing wife Sarah, or on vacation at one of Disney
or Universal Studios many incredible theme parks.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Welcome Nick, Ah, thank you, Thank you so much. It's
so crazy. When you hear bio read back to you,
you're like, Yep, that's yeah, I did all that. I yeh,
that's that's me. That's me. You got you always got
to check. You always got to double check and make
sure it's not like a complete fabrication that that does
check out.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
To be fair, I want to say, though, this bio
is incredibly impressive. The intro that I get to give.
It's not often that I get to give so many
accolades and bullet points. And the way that it's been
phrased is still very humble, deliciously self deprecating, and yet
incredibly impressive in every line.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
You are very sweet to say, so it is I think,
I think thee if the self deprecation is just something
that's just comes very naturally to me. I do it often,
but certainly the humility is something that I aspire to
and and try to make sure I'm in constant practice
with because I think I think that that's kind of

(02:53):
one thing I've discovered in my my life, my career,
right like the the there's that Raymond reem Real Quock
quote resolve to always be beginning, always be a beginner.
And and even though I'm at this place in my
in my career where I can confidently say like I've
I've done some things, you know, like I I just
love that there's still so much for me to learn.

(03:15):
I love that that it's it's not over, if only
because like I am still trying my best to be
a student of things. So like, even in a moment
where life is extremely busy, it is still a moment
that I can like pause me like and I'm not
I'm not done right like and there's still so much

(03:37):
more that I can that I can consume and be
fed with, and that it's not the story is not
all about me, you know. I mean so like it's I.
I am so glad that what you got was humility
from that bio, because that is absolutely something that I
try to put into practice in my life.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
I get that you and I have been speaking for
just a few minutes now, and it just it radiates.
It's one of those things where they always say that
the most accomplished people in the room are usually the
ones who are also the nicest people and the easiest
with whom you can work. They never do that, but
I have a really hard time ending any sentence with
a preposition. But it's just like they're the best to

(04:16):
work with. I'm like, oh, that makes the English major
Inmigo crazy. But it's also one of those things too.
I love that idea that I have so much more
to learn. I have this incredible friend and he gave
me a phrase that I use all the time. We
say it all the time here. I want to be
very very good at being wrong, which is a different
sort of perspective on the exact same idea, And again,

(04:41):
so much of so many things left to be done,
and I have to start over in so many of
them because they're brand new. And so let me be
a good student. Let me understand that failure is a
learning experience and not something that's supposed to discourage or
hurt me.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Brilliant and to your point, and that failure is joy.
Right that the idea, because inherent to what you're saying,
right is the idea that you can put your ego down,
which is such a you know everyone has that everyone
has some form of ego. Not that I have any
sort of qualification to be talking about the psychology of

(05:17):
ego and all these things, but I will say everyone
from my experience has some form of ego. But when
you can put your ego down and recognize that right,
that you are not centered, right, that this that you
are part of a larger hole that I have in
my experience, there's just such joy and that there's such
a relief and a release of the pressure to be anything,

(05:42):
the pressure to do anything, you are able to more
clearly commune with the joy inside you because you don't have.
It's so funny. Your your colleague Carrie Lynch worked with
a guy who I worked with, this guy Eric Jordan Young,
who is is just a phenomenal performer, and he was

(06:03):
one of the first performers I ever came across in
the theater industry who I looked up to and who
was kind of a mentor. And he said something to
me I will never forget in the parking lot of
the Hangar Theater in Ithaca. He's like, ninety nine percent
of the world's problem comes from expectation, from what people
expect to happen versus what's actually happening and right when
you are able to release ego, which so much of

(06:25):
that is expectation, so much of that is the structure
you think is supposed to be happening because you are
who you are. When you're able to put that down
and just be right and just be like, oh, I'm
just enough just by virtue of me standing here and
breathing and being human, Right, what more joy could you

(06:46):
ever find than that very simple idea? Right? So I
think I just I personally love the idea that joy
is found in stillness and that joy is found in
in students ship. If I can coin a phrase, absolutely
else's coined.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
It, regardless it's the first time I've heard it, and
I love it. Yes, And I think that is such
a beautiful way to look at so many things. When
we expect fill in the blank, you can either exceed it,
meet it, or fall short of it. And if you
do your very best to just sort of release that idea,

(07:26):
this is what I'm doing. The outcome is the outcome.
My expectation is I have no expectation. I'm just here
to do the thing because it makes me happy, because
this is something I want to do or learn or
improve or share, because I think that there is something
in me that needs to create this and put it

(07:46):
into the world because it would make me happier, and
I think that it would also influence others to join
me in that happiness. Absolutely, I don't want. I try
so hard to be like sincere and authentic about it,
but it really just comes down to such a simple
thought of trying to share whatever light that we make

(08:08):
with those who are sort of in the circle, and
it reflects from them to get farther out. I don't
There's only so brightly I can shine. However, the people
around me, the friends and people who may enjoy it,
can also use that light and reflect it farther out
if it's something that resonates with them, so that it

(08:28):
can be something that we can share in larger circles.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Absolutely, and and that the you know, I love that
you're using the word share because I think that that's
that is intrinsic to what we're talking about here, the
idea that like, it's not just on you. You don't
have to do anything, you know, there, you just move
gently through the world. I love the older I get,
the more that I just love people who have done

(08:55):
the work necessary to be able to move gently through
the world, right to to not have to greatly impact anything,
right to just to just exist and be kind and listen.
I think that those are the things that I really
have become to value as I've gotten, you know, older,

(09:18):
and grown in this industry, grown in my life and
all these things.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, yeah, now on that topic, I love that you.
I mean, just right in the middle of my heart business,
you said something about just listening, and I this is
a personal problem of mine, and I hope you don't
mind me asking how you handle something like this, because

(09:42):
it sounds like you're in a very similar spot. I
am doing my dead level best to be so much
more of a listener. And I find that sometimes whenever
I have a problem that I'm having trouble finding someone
to share that with me. Is it a problem of
how I speak about it? Is it a problem of

(10:03):
they come to me with something that I need to
listen to and they're not really in a position to reciprocate.
When you find yourself in a position like that, what
type of exercises or or I don't know, programs, systems
do you use to try to find a way to
share that. So it's not quite such a heavy burden.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Of course, I think, I think the first, you know,
And again I can only speak from my experience, so
I don't want to ever prescribe what I do as
the way right. It's which you know, it's ironic because
I have a shirt that says this is the way.
But you know, I think from my experience, if i'm

(10:48):
if I have a burden on me, if I have
something that's on my mind and in my heart, I think,
you know, and this is you know, you started this
episode talking about mental health, which is wonderful. And I
am a loud and proud adhd uh you know, adhd
And anxieties is my my my diagnosis generalized anxiety, and

(11:10):
you know, talk to me ten years ago, and it
would be seeking out someone to kind of figure it out, right,
like I have something on my heart, I need to
figure it out. Let me you know, my let me
find my wife, let me find my friends, and let
me talk it through, and like, you know, really sort
it out. And and that you know, and those that
that's wonderful. I think the impetus, the kernel there right

(11:30):
of going to community and saying I have this thing,
can you help me? Right? I think anybody asking for
help is that that is such a beautiful and human
good thing. So I don't ever want to say stop
asking for help, because everyone should always ask for help
when they need it. I think as I've gotten older,
the question that I've asked myself is I start by saying, like, Okay,

(11:56):
this thing that's on my heart, whatever it is, can
I investigate it first, like can I like what what is?
And And that might be the answer might be no.
The answer might be it's too big, right, I need
I need someone else, I need a professional, or I
need my my partner or whatever it is. So it's
it could be no, but oftentimes it can be yes, right,

(12:20):
it can be the thing of like not not that
I need to solve it, right. I think getting the
idea of solving the issue out of your head is
extremely important. Right, It's not about solving it, it's just
about investigating it. Investigating it doesn't mean it's going to
be fixed. It just means that you're willing to ask
the questions of it. So if I have some big feelings,

(12:41):
then like, let me go back to my Sesame Street days,
my mister Rogers' days, and be like, hey, do you
know what I mean? Like? What are these like? Why
are these feelings so big? And and and and sit
with that for a second, just just that question, why
are these feelings so big? And oftentimes I will find
that if I can sit with that question, I will
find that the feelings are big because of expectations that
I'm putting on the consequence of what happens if I

(13:04):
don't fix this problem. If I don't do this, then
the world will end. Then I can now I have
a statement. Now I can ask will the world really end?
I'm just asking, right, just will it? Will it actually end? Now?
The Again, the answer could be yes, but oftentimes it's
not so if the world's not going to end, if

(13:25):
the feelings are big not because of something that's real,
but because of something that's expected. Now I have a
choice to say, like, Ooh, do I want to continue
to engage with that knowing that it's not real yet?
Or do I want to like seek some other ways
to navigate it? Right? I think I think that the

(13:48):
coolest thing you can do is kindly ask questions of yourself.
And I think I also think that what it does then,
for what it's done for me, I will say, is
that by the time I bring it to someone else,
I am now not projecting my pain onto them. I

(14:08):
have processed it, and I'm coming to them to ask
for affirmation. Right, I don't need I'm not coming to
them with a with a need that's like I need
you to help me feel not feel pain anymore. I'm
coming to them and say, hey, have you ever felt
like this? This kind of sucks? Right? And they can
be like, oh, yeah, that totally sucks, right, And that

(14:32):
is so much That is so much less pressure on
my wife, on my friends, right, because it's not about
you know, come to me and solve the world's biggest equation,
it's can you share space with me? You know, I
think that one of the things I've learned, especially through

(14:53):
my work in the arts, you know, because the arts
is all empathy. Most people just want to be heard,
just want to be heard. Yeah, Like it's right, Like
it's not about like you know, I mean, yes, people
want you know, obviously warm beds and healthcare and money
and these things, right, these things are very important and

(15:15):
if somebody has a problem, what is most moving to
so many people is just to have someone say, oh, yeah,
you have every right to be feeling like that.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Right.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
So there the more that you can do that work
on your own to process it so that you're not
overwhelming other people with it, right, Like I I the
the kind of the crude way to say it is like,
keep your side of the street clean.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
It's honey, oh we've lost your audio, buddy, there you are, Yeah,
you hit the mute. Sorry, Keep your side of the
street clean.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Keep your shirt? Yeah, how much can you keep your
shot of the street clean? How much can which is
not even a crude way to say it, but just
how much can you be present with your own stuff
to the point where you can understand that you have
what it takes to defuse the bomb, so that when

(16:19):
you bring it into a shared space, it is shared.
It is not. You are not the vacuum that sucks
all the attention and all the need towards you. You
are simply coming for community, you know. And I want
to be clear, that is extremely hard to do. I
still struggle with it. It is. It is aspirational, it

(16:41):
is not. It is not something that I'm like, oh
I've mastered I'm a master of none. I have not
mastered that, but that is what I aspire to do
for sure.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, and that realization, that acknowledgment is enormous as well.
Something in there that you said and I it inspired
sort of like a little thought in my head. It's
the difference in bringing someone a project at square one
and saying, help me with this. If it doesn't get done,
it's the end of my world, versus working on it

(17:12):
for a while, bringing a near completed project that needs
assistance for the last finishing bits, so that it's something
that it's not necessarily fixed per se. What it is
is it is clear that you have done some work
and you're not relying on this person to do the
work with you. From the beginning, you're asking them to

(17:33):
be a part of the project from where I reached
a place where I needed help, and now we can
go forward together and maybe complete it. But if not,
that really isn't the goal. It's just to get me
farther along in getting this to where I'm happy with it.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
The goal, The goal is trust, in my opinion, the goal,
the goal is a community, right, Like, if you think
of it as these as these kind of like these,
you know, if you think of all the especially when
you live with anxiety like I do, all the things,
all the little the little voices that creep up day
to day for you, Right, there's so many, there's so many,

(18:13):
there are so so many. And if you if you
pick each one of those as like the battle of
a lifetime, it will it will go on forever. It
will be the battle of the lifetime. But if you
can understand that each one of those is just like
part of a larger hole, right, part of a larger narrative,

(18:34):
and that you actually can commune with people about it, right,
But what it takes is the trust of yourself to say, like, ooh,
I'm actually grown up enough to like handle it, like
I actually like and this is hard, especially when you

(18:57):
know we are you know, I'm speaking as a millennial.
Like you know, our parents didn't have the access to
the you know, therapy and the medication that we do
right like like, so we are, we are on a
learning curve. We're coming in like ooh, this is very
new to us. And yet that it is entirely possible
to clean up your side of the street and make

(19:21):
sure that when you come into community, you are coming
in with not even a fin like you said, not
even a finished project, but just a project that you
know well enough so that your stuff does not become
fair stuff. Yes, you're you're not asking them to to
to own it. You're asking them to share it. And
that there is a difference in those things, you know.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, and also on a finite timeline, I think that's yes,
important to share with some people. You know, this is
this is not forever, This is very temporary. This is
for right now. Because a lot of people don't know.
They get involved with some of our business and they
think and sometimes we ask them or drag them kicking
and screaming for far longer than it ever needed to

(20:04):
be a project. And so whenever I show up with
my homework done and a very clear timeline of how
long and to what extent I need the assistance, I
think a it sets a really clear boundary on it.
It also gives these people more likelihood of coming to

(20:26):
my aid in the future, because I want to be
a good steward of this kind of assistance as well.
I don't want to lean too heavily on everyone. I
have a tribe. Wonderful. When I have this kind of problem,
I go here. When I have this problem, I go there,
and it keeps a good balance with all of you,
and it opens the door for reciprocation for them if

(20:47):
I can be a help to them in some way. Wonderful,
there's already a deposit in the account. Come on over
here withdraw and needed.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
It also listens to you. It also cursed me. You're
talking about giving people agency, right, you're talking about you're
talking about the idea because when you are, when you
are honest with someone, that's that's kind of That's one
of like I think the hidden secrets of living in
society today because society, like people often you know, other
actors often ask me like Okay, you know, if I
want to get an agent, if I want to get

(21:18):
like a manager, if I want to get like a
you know whatever, if I want to proceed in this
in this industry, how do I talk to them? How
do I And it just occurs to me to tell them,
like can you not just have an honest conversation with them,
like just and and and with no agenda, with no agenda, right,
just just curious about who they are, how they do

(21:38):
what they do. If a connection forms, that's wonderful. If
it doesn't, you move on. And it's the same thing
with including people, whether it's a project that you're working
on or needing someone to hold space for something you're
going through that idea of like every the work that
you're doing beforehand gives them the agency to say, like

(21:58):
I want to come in to your circle today. You
are not manipulating them into your circle today. You're not
saying through you know, through kind of subversive matches, guilting
them or you know, kind of gas lighting them to it.
It's like, hey, here's what I got, do you have
bandwith the hold this today? And if you don't totally
cool right, like it's not it's not a pressurized thing,

(22:21):
that you've done your work, and you also trust yourself
enough to know that even if they say no, which
you know, if if they love you, I doubt they will,
but if they did, you could still you could handle it.
Yeah you can't. Like there's that Walt Whitman quote. I
contain multitudes, right, Like we we don't. We don't give
ourselves enough credit for the deaths at which we know

(22:42):
how to take care of ourselves. And we forget, We
really do forget, and we let the world tell us
that we're smaller than we are. But we can handle
so much more than we think we can. It just
it just requires patience and slow and gentle steps and
just like just breathing and drinking some coffee, you know

(23:03):
what I mean?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Like amen to that? Yes, I keep that thing right
here close. Yeah that's right.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah man. No.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
I I love the idea of grace and gentleness. I
think that a lot of people get those types of
ideas maybe a little. I think they define them weekly
w E A K. And it makes me uncomfortable whenever
they start doing things like that, because I don't think

(23:34):
people really give the sort of recognition and love to
those kinds of approaches. Many times, it takes a lot
to be gentle when someone's coming at you with teeth
and claws out. It takes a lot to maintain your
peace and your calm when someone is clearly agitated and
ready to absolutely rip your head off. And the fact

(23:54):
that you maintained this calm demeanor while they are swirling
around you does nothing to help their attitude. Mm hmm,
they get very go.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Ahead, No, no, God, please please please think.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
It's just always so interesting to watch how that sends
to send them in more of a frenzy. Because you
are the calm center, You're the eye of their hurricane. Sometimes.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
I have had so many experiences, both professional and personal,
where it is fascinating to watch how upset people get
when I tell them how their actions have made me feel. Now,
keep in mind, I'm not saying what kind of person
they are. I'm not saying that they are irredeemable. I'm

(24:42):
not even saying that like that they are you know,
completely like beyond the pale of just you know, sanity
or whatever. Like, I'm just literally saying, what you did
in this moment made me feel this way. Just so
you know that very idea breaks the brains of so

(25:03):
many people because so many people like, there's there's a
wonderful T shirt. I'm going in so many places that
this is that promises connects back. There's a wonderful teacher
I saw. I think this one. This group for for
people living with autism put out this T shirt that says,
don't hear what I didn't say?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yes? Have you seen the campaign?

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Right?

Speaker 1 (25:27):
That really what a brilliant brilliant brilliant because I think
that is what we're talking about here. It's this idea
of if you know, we are we are as a society,
so I think, trained to avoid conflict. We are told
that conflict is not joyful. And therefore, when somebody tells
you the truth about when you do this, it does

(25:47):
this to me. We hear a myriad of other things
that aren't real. That's not what they said. They just said,
when you do this action, it makes me feel a
certain way. And going back to what you said in
the beginning, right, this idea of like, like, we also
have been trained to not know how to handle our shortcomings,

(26:10):
our failures, right, so when we hear that when I'm
on the receiving end, of that, Well, my instinctual brain
is like, well, well they're attacked. That means that you're worthless,
you're nothing because you made this mistake, you hurt your friend.
All of that, right is the stuff that we have
a responsibility to navigate and dig through and say that's
not real. Those aren't real things.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
And it's not what that person said to me.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
That's not what that person said to me. And in fact,
right now it's not about me. Yeah, if I step
on your toe right now and you tell me Nick
that hurt, my response is like, well I didn't know. No,
it's James said he I hurt his toe. James tow
was hurt. So that's the first thing we got to
deal with, is that James has a hurt toe, and

(26:56):
then we can deal with the rest of it. But
like again, and I think that we had You know,
when you talk about grace and you talk about gentleness
being viewed as weakness, I think that what it comes
from is this inability to look at ourselves as fallible creatures.
And we are extremely fallible. We are so like we

(27:17):
could not be more fallible. Like that is that is
in fact inherent to the human condition, Like I think
is that idea that like, at some point we will
not do the thing that we set out to do,
you know what I mean, Like that's just part of
who we are. And I think that anything, any institution,
any program, any system, any community that encourages you to

(27:40):
embrace that as opposed to run away from it is
something that I co sign just because I just I
just think we need to not be so afraid of
coming up short at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, Like because we need to understand as well, failure
once means that you need to try again, because just
because you don't succeed on the first swing does not
mean there aren't more at bats for you to come
and play.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
And then when you're talking about conflict resolution, I live
in the Netherlands and you want to talk about a
conflict oriented society. Wow, if you're doing something that's outside
of norm or whatever, people here have zero qualm letting
you know about it. The best of it is, you know,
in a very American mindsets like oh they're mad at me.

(28:29):
Know what they are is they're very caring to you,
with you of you, and they're telling you that the
sort of behaviors that you're exhibiting are not necessarily favorable
in this relationship. So in order to you know, work
on being better at this relationship, these are the things
we need to not do or do more often, or

(28:49):
however that works out. It's like, oh, yeah, I'm not
mad at you. I just don't like it when you
do that that makes you come across like an asshole.
It's like, oh, noted, okay, great, yep, yeah, And it's
it's so direct, it's so unbelievably efficient, it's wonderful, and
it's one of those things where it took a little
getting used to because we are not prepared for things

(29:10):
like that. Anytime we hear a correction of any sort,
your action makes me feel this way, automatically feels accusatory,
automatically feels as though I have committed some sort of misdeed.
Where all that is done is it's an action with
a reaction, one that was unfavorable to your audience or
your friend. So let's explore that for a second and

(29:31):
figure out how we can avoid doing that again in
the future.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Just do you find do you find that that now
that you have been around that for a little while, like,
not has it gotten easier but but do you do
you find that your brain is like like hearing those
that that that kind of calming voice first of like, oh,
that's not what they're saying, Like, is that is that?
Have you have you felt that that muscle getting stronger

(29:56):
and stronger or been the second voice?

Speaker 2 (29:58):
It absolutely is the second voice that I here because
the first voice is the way that I was raised. Yeah,
and the second voice is the one that says, wait,
you know that's not what's happening. It's been explained to you.
You've seen it in action more times than you can count.
Please remember, just breathe, like you say, breathe, breathe through
it and figure out what's next. Coming from a place

(30:21):
of understanding and love and a genuine need to be
understood and to continue fostering nurturing this friendship versus well,
now I'm mad and I just don't want to deal
with it anymore. Silly. No, that's and also very expensive.
I don't have a ton of friends in the Netherlands
because I've just moved here, So it's one of those

(30:42):
things like but you don't have the luxury of doing that.
So it gives me me to rock and a hard
place of almost forced growth, which is great because sometimes
that's not my first choice.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Oh yeah, well I also have to imagine, like again
you said you just moved there like that. Yeah, just
just that adjustment and just that like that recognition of
like you you know, this is a completely new environment.
You know. I think I think that we don't give
ourselves enough credit for that. We how often we step
into these situations where we are expected to know how

(31:18):
to do the thing so well, and yet why would
we We've never done it before, do you mean, like
we've never been like what you did, You've never lived
in the Netherlands before. So like you know, these like
the cultural rules and the things that like you are learning,
like you you are allowed to learn them, but also
people are allowed to tell you when you messed up

(31:38):
a little bit, like they like both things are true,
and i's it's it is a fascinating thing that we
just I love that you said the second voice, because
we do have to keep reminding ourselves. We do have
to keep stepping in and just being like yeah, yeah,
it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. At some point, somebody,
somebody's gonna call you out on something and you have

(31:59):
to decide how you want to do and that's just
part of life.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
And I hope they do if I can be real
honest about it. But guess I have seen so many
times in different friendship circles where people don't bring it
to my attention, and so I don't get the luxury
of knowing that it was hurtful or or a trespass,
like honest to goodness, like something that was relatively serious
and it continues to worsen or it festers, et cetera.

(32:24):
This situation is very different. Hey, we don't I don't
like that. Let's not do that again.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
Oh okay a broad and yeah, great, we k needed
in the bud the minute it happened, noted it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
I love that. I love that. That's really cool. It's
really cool, dude.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
It's something that you just mentioned as well. The first
time you stepped into a Broadway rehearsal or onto a
Broadway stage. It's one of those things where you say,
you know, like people I'm certain would have that word again,
expectations of your performance, of your the caliber performance that
you would deliver, et cetera, And they're like, okay, great
and this is my first time in this situation, like

(33:10):
at this level, so you know, I would I'm just
curious how that sort of thing would play out in
one's mind and how that sort of lives in you
when we reach such a.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Level, I think, and and I'm gonna I'm gonna say
this answer, and I'm also going to try to get
my my my scarlet, my my sure as being. Can
you hear me? Now? Yeah, hear me? Yeah you can.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, It's it's different. I think you're on your computer
mic and not on your mic mic.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
This is dumb. Hold on bold. Oh wait, you're coming
out of my start. I know, I know what happened.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah mm hmm, there you are.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Now you're back there. Great, Yes, yes, there you are.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
It was still clear, still lovely. It was just a
different kind of feel.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Okay, no, and answer your question. So the yeah, my,
it's so interesting you know when I I and Carrie
can tell you this is someone who who who knew
me from an early point in my career. Like I've
always felt like I kind of stepped in the back
door of this thing, you know, So it's always felt

(34:22):
like like I don't necessarily belong here. I've always felt
kind of like an odd an odd duck, you know,
especially especially when it comes to musical theater, because I
never studied it, Like I just I that was not
my goal, that was not my focus. I I want
I wanted to act and I wanted to write, but
I also knew how to sing. And so you know,

(34:43):
when I got out of college, uh, my, my agents
at the time really started pushing me for musicals because
thank you, Carrie is in the chat saying imposter syndrome,
which is very true. But also truly I was like
I was trying. I was trying to push for you know,
I wanted to do Shakespeare, I want to do all
these things. And I did get to do those things.
But also the sad truth of it when it comes

(35:05):
to theater is like musicals are how you make money.
Like it just it's just the truth. And so you know,
I think that I think that this this ended up
being this kind of thing where I had to learn
very quickly what the what, what this industry was, what
the side of the industry was at least and and

(35:26):
and it was it was for so many years. Even now,
it felt like the rules were rules that I didn't
necessarily always know upfront. And then as I got older,
and this is something interesting that happened. The more that
I've kind of done this career, done this industry, uh,

(35:46):
you know, Broadway Theater. Then then you come up against
the rules that you just don't like. Right, Then you
come up against the like because because once you get
to know the thing, once you get to be you know,
you really see the thing. Then you see the places
is where it's run in ways that are just like
why are we doing that? Just why are we doing that?
That just that that seems to hurt more people than

(36:07):
it helps, right, you know, And and so I think
that that's That's been a fascinating thing too as I've
gotten more leverage in my career has been like when
do I choose to kind of raise a hand and say, like,
I just I just want to know just why are
we doing that? You know, I mean, like just what
is that? Because that and because because of everything that

(36:28):
we've talked about, right, that question can inevitably lead to
somebody hearing something that I didn't say, yes, right, yeah,
but it is a question that is I think, especially
when you're in when you're working in the arts, is
necessary to ask because we all, if you're working in

(36:50):
the arts, you're not doing it for money. You're doing
because you love it, right, you really love it, and
and you are trying to take something that is your
passion and make it your commerce. And when those two
things combine, by no fault of anyone's, it is very
easy for people to get take advantage of, just because
it is such a heart forward thing, right like this is,

(37:11):
this is my art, this is my this is my
my soul on a bladder, and then people say how
much you want for it? That that very transaction is
it's it's it's it's really hard. It's really hard to
thread that neal. So like I think that it is
kind of this this this again, slow and steady and gentle,

(37:35):
just kind of raising a hand, you know when I
when I when I don't understand. And I think I
think that that even comes back to the original question
you ask, which is, you know, how did I adjust?
I think that the thing that I've been very grateful
for have been I have a lot of people in
my life who are reminders to me that it's okay

(37:55):
to be curious, that it's okay to ask questions. The
way I survived was when I didn't understand something I asked.
I asked the question I wanted to know. I wanted
to know everything about everything, everything about the people in
the fly tower, everything about the people writing the thing,
everything about the people directing the thing, just for no
reason other than I just wanted to know how they

(38:17):
do what they do. So now I have an understanding
of how they do what they do, and and then
and and and and in ten years, I won't write
because in ten years the industry will change or or
people new people will come in. So it's a I
have to keep up with it. I have I have
to as long as I love this thing, I have
to be curious about it, you know. And I think
that that's that's been my saving grace too, has been

(38:41):
this idea of like, oh yeah, and this is a
perfect sample.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
You know.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
You mentioned my bio, you mentioned the TV writing. I've
never written for TV before ever, I've this is very
new for me, and so so many so often will
have meetings and I will just have sat there quietly,
and I will at first I'll beat myself up, like,
oh my god, I'm not pitching anything. I'm not doing
anything but then I'm like no, But I'm also just

(39:07):
listening to like how this is going, because like again,
I deserve the room to learn about this thing. I
don't know what I'm doing. So I'm listening to my
showrunner and and and and listening to her talk about
story structure and listening to her talk about you know,
how this this side of the industry works, and learning

(39:28):
a whole bunch. And I think that's that's actually even
better than the than the performance or the output of
it is the I'm I really have fallen in love
with the with the learning of it. I I I
love being curious, and I'm also hit fascinated by how
often my curiosity can can throw people off, because it's

(39:52):
just like you know, people don't people aren't used to
being asked questions. People people want to say the thing
and be understood the first time, as opposed to has
to explain what they do. But I don't know. I
love curious people. I love curiosity well.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
And not to be harsh to any members of our community,
what I would like to say is not many people
will risk looking unlearned or uneducated or ignorant. None of
these things are bad, by the way because they are
not exposed to it. They don't know the program, they
don't know what's going on all the time, and so

(40:30):
in order to hide that fact, sometimes they will sit
there quietly in fear learning as much as they can,
though not as much as they could is if they
had asked questions and then shattered the illusion that perhaps
they actually know something about what's going on. It is
a really interesting balance. It's a very delicate thing for

(40:54):
many people because appearances are so important, especially in a
in the the industry. So it's one of those things
where I think that it is very it's very telling
about you asking those kinds of questions that it's clear
that you are very sincere in your desire for knowledge
and your curiosity, instead of asking a question that we've

(41:15):
all been in the room where someone asked a question
to show how much they know about a topic, instead
of on the other side about how little I know
and I'm really here to learn. I'm in a good
room for that. Would you mind sharing that information and
knowledge with me? Thank you?

Speaker 1 (41:30):
That's truly the and and it again I think it
will help. It has helped me when I am that
person you know as again now that I'm in this
place in my career where I'm you know, on stage,
you know, leading things or or creating things, like creating
things off stage, Like, there are moments when I am

(41:50):
that person that questions are being asked of. Right, there
are those moments and in those moments, because I have,
I have cultivated kind kind of a style of curiosity, right,
and I want to be cull clear, like this wasn't
natural to me. This is something that like I have,
I have put into practice, is trying to make sure
that that curiosity muscle is constantly going. But because I

(42:13):
have committed to it, right in that moment, even my
responses have changed. Right, My responses are not about what
I know and showing off what I know. My responses
are truly trying to listen to the question that was
asked and share from my experience what I think the
answer might be. But it's solely from my experience and

(42:35):
it has and it is not trying to dominate. I think.
I think so many times in professional settings people are
trying to dominate or trying to end the conversation. Right,
people are truly just trying to be like they want
to have the last word that's Trump Kate, and it's
like exactly, and I'm like, no, I I think the
conversation should keep going beyond me. I just if you're

(43:00):
asking me my opinion on the thing, He's here's my
opinion on the thing. Take her or leave it, you know.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
And I would love it so much more if more
people had that feeling about it, take it or leave it.
This is my experience. Quite frankly, anything that I say,
more than likely is going to be exactly from that pov.
I'm flattered you asked that implies a compliment of sorts.
Here's my experience on it. If it helps you, awesome,

(43:26):
If it doesn't, no harm, no foul at all. You
asked me I shared. What you do with that information
is entirely up to you. I have zero skin in
the game. I don't want to be any kind of
ego in that in the least. All I want to
do is be grateful that they thought that I knew
enough to ask share my experience, and what they do

(43:48):
with it on their time is totally up to them.
If they write back or report back or call back
or whatever and say, hey, this is what I did,
thank you worked really well. Fantastic, absolutely super. If they
did their own thing, great. We had a nice conversation.
I was able to share something and it reminded me that, hey,
oh yeah, I've come a long enough way that people

(44:10):
want to know my take on it. Cool. Great, I
should probably live in that a little bit too.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah. Yeah, I think both of those things are so true.
And I think, you know, it's just again, I all
of this to me is just we are talking about
how to put down your ego. Yeah, that's just where
my mind just keeps coming back to, just how to
put down centering yourself. Yes, and it's not that you

(44:38):
don't care about things, and it's not that you are
you know, disassociated from all of life, but you are
allowing for the fact that life truly is eight billion
people on this planet, right.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
On this planet, on this planet.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
And that's right, Oh my god, that Carl Sagan's the
blue dot right like that that that is that is
what I right, that idea of like do you understand
how vast this thing is? Like you do you get
like these are just so like any squabbles we're having
are just so minuscule. There we could we could be
inside black hole right now. Do you mean like we

(45:16):
don't know that, Like there's so much that's just not
on this planet, and it's so easy for us to
think that it is, but it's it's not. Man like yeah, yeah,
I try to remember that.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
It's it's difficult because I mean, we've got so many
things flying at our heads twenty four to seven. It's
fake eyelashes and deodorant commercials and all of the other
like minutia that in the grand scheme are so unbelievably
just non issue that whenever the real things come along,
like connection and ending loneliness or poverty or hunger or

(45:51):
things like that, it just seems as though that feels
almost radical whenever it couldn't be more basic if it's
the whole thing, if everything depended on it, and in
a manner speaking, it does.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
When you decide there's a there's a wonderful, uh, wonderful woman.
Her name is Tricia Hersey, and she she runs this, uh,
this this company called the nat Ministry. That's it's also
a uh an instagram, a social media page, but it's
it really is her movement and it is all about truly,
it's all about the power of rest and specifically for

(46:30):
marginalized people, right, the power of of disengagement, and when
you understand how powerful it is for you to just
take a nap. And by taking nap, I mean truly,
like like truly just rest, rest and not engage with
the constant hamster wheel of people selling you things or

(46:54):
people needing things from you, and people and and and
and the imagination work. That's what I sid about her
so much, the imagination work of well, you know, somebody
comes to you and says, well, I can't rest. I
work three jobs, and and and her response is are
they telling you that? Are they telling you you can't rest?

(47:17):
Are they telling you that you don't have one second
to just breathe, just breathe in, breathe out. Because that's rest,
that's rest. Just that one second of disengagement to let
you know that you're alive and that you have autonomy
and that you're loved. Just that one second is the
most radical thing you could do, even if you're working

(47:37):
three jobs, right, like the because that's that's what I
mean by imagination. We don't, we don't, but once we think,
the structure is the structure is the structure, and there's
no way out of it and this is just what
it is. Then we can't see how we could possibly
advocate for ourselves inside the structure. But we can, we

(47:59):
absolutely can. It might not be immediately available to our minds,
but if we just sit and think for a second
about just like what we deserve and what and how
beautiful we are, you know, or how much we have
a right to just exist? Right, these things are so

(48:22):
radical because simply because they that is exactly what they
want it like like they but the structure is built
to keep us going and going and going and going
and going and going, as opposed to just like taking
that second for yourself. So I I I love a
good nap. I love a good nap, and I love

(48:45):
I love a good disengagement. I love a good just hmm, okay,
you know, and.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
A good snack with that nap never hurt.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Nobody love a good snack huge sand snacks.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yes, well, you know. Pardon me for harping on it.
It's one of those things where you come to a
different part of the world and you realize that some
people work to live and others live to work, and
there's a very big difference in just the order of
those words and what it looks like in practice around here.

(49:21):
At seven fifty five, if you're still in the grocery store,
someone in a name tag is going to poke you
with a broom to get you out of the store
so they can make sure that the door is shut
at seven fifty nine, not eight pm, because that is
officially over. Wow, it's everything is meant to be enjoyed

(49:42):
in that respect. You go to a restaurant and you
take your time with something, you don't shovel it in
and whatever because someone needs to turn the table to
get the tip. Oh no, it's fine. Would you like
another coffee? No, I'm okay for right now? Okay, great,
And no one sees you again until you flag someone
down for the bill. Oh. A difference than in hustle

(50:03):
culture versus just being a part of the community. It's wonderful.
It's so different.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
One inherent in that is the idea, right, like that
community communal. Right that the idea that like, we actually
take care of each other, and that means we respect
each other's time. But that also means that like we
are good hosts and we are good guests like that,
that is that those two things are reciprocal, right, that

(50:32):
that that I think we forget that here, we forget
that here. I went to me and my wife went
to Nice a couple of years back, and it was
just it was night and day. Right, It's like it
really is in these places that are built that a
have some true histories to me, because that's the other
thing I always think about with at least our version

(50:52):
of American culture, right, not not the indigenous version, but
our version is so young, right, it's so young, and
these cultures that have been for you know, formulating, formulating
formulae for centuries upon centuries, and you just go and
you just recognize, oh my god, Like it's actually nobody's

(51:12):
in a rush. Nobody's in a rush, and nobody's in
a rush because they know, like you said at seven
fifty nine, that door's gonna close and that's when they
need to leave. So they don't have to Like it's
not about rushing to do it's just like that is
understood that I will have to leave this thing, and
maybe I don't get everything I need to get from
the gross store that day, I'll be okay, Like I'll
actually be okay, do you know what I mean? Like

(51:32):
it's not it's not gonna destroy me. No again, is
the world gonna end or not? You know, I think
I just I the older I get, I just I
just want to rush less. I just want to rush less,
you know.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
To be fair. In my experience as well, so few
of these things really matter to anyone other than ourselves.
And I don't know if that's an item in the ego.
I don't know if that's something that is directly related
or tied to it. But so many of these things
that send us into a wild fuzzy are completely and
totally an object of our own imagination and creation. So

(52:12):
many people have so many things on their own plates,
so many people have so many things that they're dealing
with in such a manner that whatever's going on with
us could not affect them any less if our lives
depended on it.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Correct, correct, And.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
That's what I try to keep in mind. It's like,
you know, I never want to disappoint anyone, and I
certainly don't want to hurt anyone. What I don't want
to do is put their needs so high above my
own that it puts me in some sort of situation
where I don't feel as though I am a help,
but instead a servant.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
I don't love them. Mmmm. That And that's such an
easy line to cross, That's such an easy right because
people pleasing can sometimes feel like like you know, being
being in you know, we are we are taught so
often that being in being in service, right, being in
service of people, being in service of our community is

(53:02):
the utmost and it is right you you want to
be in service of and and and right not but and.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
We're a big fan of an over here.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Yes it's and it's always it's always right like, yes,
it's it. And you cannot be in service of it
of someone else if you're not in service of yourself. Yes,
both things are you you will you will output more
than you input, and and you will you will you
will not have anything to replenish with, right, So you

(53:34):
do have to do both. It is both and and
I will say it is a practice, right, I think
so often, especially in the world of like sound bites
and and and trying to get to the heart of
something as efficiently and quickly as possible. People don't are

(53:54):
are not told, are not reminded that that this is
a crap, it's a craft. We're talking about something like
this wasn't something that our that our ancestors were thinking about. Right,
This isn't something if you go back you know, I
don't think that if you were to go back to
you know, uh, the Neolithic period, and I'm gonna hope
that that's when cavemen were around. I don't know for sure.

(54:16):
I think it was, but who knows? Uh, right that
that they that they were operating on those skills. We
are actually trying to unlearn those skills, right. We were
coming from a tribalistic place into a place of like, oh,
I'm I have consciousness and I have awareness, and therefore
I understand that I have an impact on the things

(54:38):
around me. Now what do I do with that? That
is a new skill and and and and and and
therefore has to be treated as such, has to be practiced.
Is a discipline, right, is a discipline that that is
so worth it though in this society do you know
what I mean? Is so worth it? And and has been?

(55:01):
And I will say, like, the other thing I think
about is like you see it, You see it, you
see it in African communities, you see it like all
over the world when it is practiced, when communal living
is practiced. Yes, it's not that they it's not that
there aren't problems, but you just see a society that
knows how to take care of each other. Yes, and

(55:23):
that is just I mean, what could be more joyful
than that?

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Like, truly, the entire dynamic shifts whenever your focus is
on the connection of your community instead of consumption or
trying to be better than the Joneses, or trying to
make sure that there is some sort of imagined hierarchy
instead of just people taking care of people. Yes, especially

(55:48):
I love that you said that about African communities. We
spent some time in Uganda and it was absolutely glorious
to be going through the wilds of this incredibly beautiful
country and these gorgeous children running up to the side
of the vehicle and screaming, how are you on? Fine?
Everything they knew in English they just threw at us.

(56:09):
And it was absolutely brilliant. And you get out, you know,
to get something to eat, or to see what's going on,
or you know, to take a look at what have
you and just the way, basically the entire community gathers
around you to find out what you're about, to share
their culture with you. In such a way, and it's
they don't have the same amount of stuff that we're

(56:33):
necessarily used to seeing. What they do have is a
rich connection that is on so many levels that it
is almost inconceivable to a Western mind that's been just
bathed in this idea for so long, this conditioning, and
it is if you just take a moment, like we're saying,
just breathe and just really be curious about that dynamic

(56:58):
the world it can open to you and how you
can share that when you get back to a more
familiar environment could do so much good.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Oh. Absolutely, it's it's I I'm looking at right now.
I have I have my my bookshelf up here. Anthony
Anthony Bourdain is one of my one of my heroes.
Ye look at Kitchen Kitchen Confidential, and he's one of
my heroes because it's not that he wasn't wasn't like,
you know, like a jerk sometimes right Like, It's not

(57:30):
like he wasn't like it's not like he didn't get angry.
It's not like he didn't have these faults like everyone does.
But he committed to a life of I want to
learn about the thing I want to I want to
be a guest in someone's house, I want to not
only respect their house, but learn their house. Yes, right,
that that was the spirit with which he led, And

(57:50):
I love I love that kind of punk rock curiosity.
I'm huge Like that is that to me is like
the like the the if I if if somebody, if
somebody was putting something on my tombstone, I hope it
would be that phrase, right, Like just that idea of
like it wasn't that I was a pushover. It wasn't
that I was weak. It was just that, like I
committed to curiosity. Yes, and I was a little bad ass.

(58:13):
Like both things are true.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Sometimes you have to love that. You must because sometimes
there are people who want to stand in the way
of your question, in the hope of efficiency, in the
hope of what you were saying, ending the conversation of
just getting through it, whatever that is to them. And
sometimes you have to be a little abrasive to get
your question answered. And I'm here to say, like you

(58:36):
were talking about Bordain, you know, he was a little
bit of a jerk sometimes great. The only time I
ever saw him be a jerk was never somebody tried
to either talk down to someone else in the place,
or make it so that it seemed that maybe his
question wasn't valid or it was kind of beneath them
to answer the question. That the only time I ever

(58:57):
saw him really get twisted up about stuff. For the
most time, he just wanted to be part of the community.
He asked the questions. He had this laid back energy
that was so inviting and delicious, and he had enough
fame and just like Debonair, suave genes sequah, awesome that
people were drawn to it. And if they're already drawn
to that energy, and then you show a genuine curiosity

(59:19):
and concern and desire to learn more about their culture
or which, of course, food is one of the greatest
elements of that idea. Come on, why wouldn't they be
so ready to share that with him? It's brilliant, it's
beautiful to watch.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Oh, it's truly. I love. I love his shows. I
love his book love his books. It's just I love
I just yeah, those are the people that I've looked
to as I've gotten older, gotten up in this life.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Like I say all the time, you know nothing. I'm
a little older and less stupid. I don't like to
say the word wise the word wise never seems to
really stick. I just that that seems like gray hair
and wrinkles and those kind of things. I just don't
like saying that. But like I am older now and
I have been around enough that I am less stupid
than I was, And these are the things, and these
if you want to have them, I'm glad to share.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
So I love that love that man.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Nick, Thank you so much for being with us, Bud.
I really appreciate you coming on to the show and
sharing that gorgeous voice on that fantastic microphone, and then
the love and the kindness and the earnest curiosity. I
think that a lot of us can take a very
large page out of this book and do better with
what we've been given so that we can move closer

(01:00:33):
to one another. I really appreciate it now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
I appreciate you having me is truly, this was such
a such a pleasure, such a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Talk underfore, ladies and gentlemen and everybody else listening. I
want to make sure that you know that in the
show notes, we're gonna have a lot of wonderful information
so you can follow Nick as well as all of
his incredible projects that he's involved in, and there are
not just a few, so we're gonna make sure that
you have plenty of ways of keeping up with all
of that so we can watch his progress continues to
soar across the sky. If this is your first episode,

(01:01:04):
welcome friends. We're so happy you're hearing. What a glorious
episode to begin your journey with us here at Radical Joy.
If this is not your first episode, welcome back. Thank
you for thinking enough of us here at Radical Joy
and CLA Studios and what we're trying to accomplish to
join us every week for just a little bit of
time away from the hustle and the bustle. If you're

(01:01:24):
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please do so. Leave us five stars on whatever platform
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promise you word of mouth is the most effective way

(01:01:46):
that we can get our word out there to your
friends and loved ones and anyone else you think that
might benefit. As always, friends, thank you so much for
spending this time with us, and please never ever forget.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
We love you all.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Thank you for taking time to share a moment of
joy and hope with me. We're so grateful you're here.
If this is your first time, take a moment to
check out our archive. See if there's something else in
there that fires you up, rekindles the joy in you. Hey,
spread the word. If you got something out of being
with us today, we welcome your thoughts and suggestions. Now.
I rarely run out of things to talk about, but
if there's something I haven't covered that's on your mind

(01:02:22):
or heart, I want to hear from you. To learn
more about me and Claw Studios, follow the links in
the show notes, Hey, don't forget. When you leave Radical
Joy a review, be sure to send us a screenshot.
We'll send you some kick ass swag to show our gratitude.
I am not a therapist or a medical professional. If
you're experiencing a mental health emergency, please call nine to
eighty eight to reach the National Crisis Lifeline. This content

(01:02:46):
and other content produced by CLAU Studios and affiliated partners.
Is not therapy and nothing in this content indicates a
therapeutic relationship. Any opinions of guests on this podcast are
their own and do not represent the opinions of James
or CLW Studios. Please consult with your therapist or see
what in your area if you're experiencing mental health symptoms.
Everything in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes.

(01:03:08):
Only have a great one and we will see you
next week for another dose of radical joy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Love. Y'all,