February 13, 2024 • 31 mins
In Chapter 4, you got to hear directly from the new acquisitions editor of Rebeca Books, the inestimable Danielle Butler. Well, in true start-up fashion, this episode comes with some surprising news from Danielle, which you get to hear straight from her.
If you want something done right, do it yourself, right? And maybe that is true for some things. For this, though – for building a traditional, royalty-paying publishing line that is for and about women over 40 and for the greater build-out of the parent company, The 1C Story Network – a different approach is warranted. A team approach. A commitment to collaboration, even when the relationship needs to evolve into a new form.
If you wish to have your work considered for publication by Rebeca Books, please follow the instructions for submission at https://rebecabooks.com or with the instructions below.
We accept submissions from both authors and agents. To submit your work for acquisition, please email us a book proposal containing five sections:
Please use the subject line: For Acquisition Consideration - WRITER LAST NAME
Email address: submissions - at - rebecabooks - dot - com
If you want something done right, do it yourself, right? And maybe that is true for some things. For this, though – for building a traditional, royalty-paying publishing line that is for and about women over 40 and for the greater build-out of the parent company, The 1C Story Network – a different approach is warranted. A team approach. A commitment to collaboration, even when the relationship needs to evolve into a new form.
If you wish to have your work considered for publication by Rebeca Books, please follow the instructions for submission at https://rebecabooks.com or with the instructions below.
We accept submissions from both authors and agents. To submit your work for acquisition, please email us a book proposal containing five sections:
- Book Summary (1 page or less)
- Author Bio (1 page or less, you're welcome to include a photo)
- Similar Works (name 3-5 other books/authors that are like yours/you, and tell us how yours/you are different)
- Reach Analysis (give us an overview of your relationships and presence in the world, which enables us to see how we can alert others to your book's launch)
- Sample Writing (1-3 chapters of the work you're pitching)
Please use the subject line: For Acquisition Consideration - WRITER LAST NAME
Email address: submissions - at - rebecabooks - dot - com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Welcome to the sixth episode, chapterif you will, of Raising Rebecca Books
The Birth of a Publishing House.This is the audio story of me Rebecca
Sites, building a traditional royalty payingpublishing house from the ground up, told
to you as it unfolds two episodesago. In chapter four, you got
to hear directly from the new acquisition'seditor of Rebecca Books, the unestimable Danielle
(00:37):
Butler. Well, in true startupfashion, this episode comes with some surprising
news from Danielle. Stick around throughthe ad and you'll hear it straight from
her. You're listening to Raising RebeccaBooks The Birth of a Publishing House on
the one C Story Network. OneC is made possible in part by the
(00:58):
support of the following sponsor her keepit to legal language from this point,
Well, welcome back to the RaisingRebecca Books podcast. I'd never dreamt when
(01:23):
we had our last conversation that wewould today be recording this kind of conversation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, meeither, yeah me either. I'm
gonna agree with that. We're probablythe listeners are probably like, what is
she? What is she talking about? Do you want to tell them of
the change or do you want meto tell them of the change. No,
(01:45):
I'm happy to do this. Sothank you all for tuning into Rebecca
Books. This is such a coolplatform and to get a peek behind the
process right of building something and makingit great. I'm e Danielle Butler,
and I am here because I hada change of part and while I am
(02:13):
one thousand percent in love with themission and the focus and the purpose and
the energy and intention behind Rebecca Books, I've been off more than I could
chew when I said I can bean acquisition's editor right now for this new
(02:34):
startup in the midst of all ofthe fifty thousand, million, eleven other
things that are going on, Andyeah, a change is happening. Rebecca
Books is doing its thing and I'mexcited to witness the journey. I just
won't be a part of the historymaking in this moment. So thank you
(02:59):
Rebecca for letting me share this andus having this conversation this platform. I
think one of the great things isthat Rebecca Books, particularly on this podcast,
raising Rebecca Books, is the transparencyof the ups and downs of building
something and this is yeah, theseare this is that I told somebody,
(03:21):
Danielle, I told somebody over theweekend. So this happened on Thursday,
right, and we're recording this ona Monday. Is that Thursday or Friday?
Friday? Friday? Sorry, hey, listen, this is the Monday
after Super Bowl, right, whichI think she'd be a national holiday at
this point because I completely agree withthat, especially if it goes into overtime.
I fascionally we should be given yesday. So this's happened on Friday.
(03:46):
And so I was talking to afriend about over the weekend and she
said, oh my gosh, yourlast episode was Danielle, what are you
going to do? And I said, you know what, I think I'm
just gonna ask her to come onagain and talk with me about it.
And there was silence on the phoneand she said you're gonna what. Yeah,
I said, I know, that'snot like typical, But it's not
as if we're doing anything typical here. It's not as if that's the way
(04:10):
of being anyway. And I thinkI want people to understand that just because
you do have a million eleventy thingsgoing on, and so being full time
acquisitions editor Rebecca Books is just notfeasible. I do want people to understand
that's not like we're not going tobe working with Danielle or she's not going
to be working with us, Danielleas an editor and a ghostwriter in all
(04:32):
the first So it's not it's it'sin my experience in relationships that are led
with masculine energy, when you decideto step back from a role, then
you're cut off. And I thinka really good example of that is Harry,
Right, Harry, I mean,he's like he tried to just step
(04:54):
back and look at what happened.And granted that's extreme, but I'm just
like, it doesn't have to bethe that way. We are allowed to
redefine the boundaries of relationship and howwe're interacting with each other, and if
we're an authentic relationship, then that'spossible. Right. Everybody is giving each
other grace, we're all figuring itout at any given moment. No one
(05:14):
has it completely figured out ever,And so I really appreciated that you came
to me and you said, Okay, you know what, I think this
is not for me. I thinkthis is not the right role. I'm
in the wrong seat. I shouldn'tbe doing this. And we had this
really lovely, hard, hard,hard but lovely conversation about what's going on?
Why is this happening? Is theresomething inside Rebecca Books that needs to
(05:38):
change, Is there something in theway I'm interacting with you that needs to
change, or is this an outsidething that's happening. What's going on?
And I just this not being thefirst business that I've ever started, I
want people to know this is astandard part of it. People come in,
people come out, especially in thebeginning as everybody is testing out roles
and figuring out what works and ifthey're good fits. But I also wanted
(06:01):
us to talk about there because therewas a component of this that, if
you're comfortable talking about, that isspecific to what Rebecca Books is trying to
do, and that is when we'retrying to create a truly diverse community of
voices and product. There's so manylandmines there, and so many difficulties and
(06:23):
challenges to face that aren't present ifyou're frankly, they're just not if you're
putting together a different kind of aline. If I I mean, just
to speak frankly, if I wasgoing out and finding a bunch of forty
five year old white women to writeromance books, this would be a different
experience than what I'm having. Therewould be different conversations for me to have
with authors and agents. I thinkthey would have been different conversations than you
(06:45):
experienced with authors. And so Iwanted us to talk about that, frankly,
so that people could, again withthat transparency, with that authenticity,
understand it's not like you just wakeup one morning and go, I know
what I'm going to do. I'mgoing to create a book. Yeah,
it's going to be this beautifully colorful, diverse array of voices and stories,
(07:09):
and like it's not as if everyauthor goes great. I want to be
a part of that. Yeah.So I think the way that you've described
it, right like that, thisthis it was a lovely conversation and a
hard conversation. I think the firstthing is to say we can do hard
things and they can still be lovely, right like that is like things can
(07:30):
change. And as I look atyou as a woman building a business,
at women building businesses, one ofthe things that we have not been afforded
the opportunity to do is peek intothe backside of the business. Right we
get to see the outside, sowe often don't get to see what the
hard conversations are like, we oftendon't get to to see what led to
(07:56):
what became right? And we hadyou and I had a meeting last week,
and we're talking about sales, right, How do we approach sales and
marketing? We were talking about distribution, right, where do things? Where
do certain people shop for books?What is the best what is in the
best interest of our authors and readers? And one of the things as you
(08:20):
were going through that list, therewas a question for me that rose up
immediately, and that question was amI in the best seat to serve?
Am I in the best seat toserve? As we were talking about all
of these things, I was like, Yes, I can be this gatekeeper
as an acquisition's editor right where it'slike, ah, send us your stories,
(08:41):
because we're going to look at themand give them a very real and
reasonable look. We're going to takeour time and actually do that, not
just kind of pass it over.We're a real people doing this, right.
But then there was also the conversationof sales and marketing and distribution,
what I better be seated in thatside of the house, right, and
(09:03):
supporting and saying voices of color bipopauthors, things like that sometimes have a
different way, oftentimes have a differentway of how we disseminate and receive our
information. Amazon, Yes, isthe largest bookseller in the world, but
there are other booksellers and other waysthat distribution happens, right, And so
(09:24):
then I questioned myself would it bebetter? Would I be better served in
sales and marketing and figuring out whatchannels would serve really well for the books.
And then the third component of thatconversation was what about bipop authors that
have incredible stories to tell, butthey're just not writers. They're not good
(09:45):
writers, They're not writers, youknow, So how do we support them?
Right? We pair them with editors, we pair them with ghost writers
or collaborators, and that is myprimary willhouse. So for me, it
was one of those ooh, whatis the what is the place that I
could serve best and serve well?And as I thought about all of the
(10:05):
things that was monumental for me likethat, if I had to point to
a specific moment, right, ifI had to, it was walking away
and saying, am I serving?Am I offering my best service in this
space? And so what does thatlook like? And then you and I
(10:28):
the conversation that we're referring to.On Friday, we had a conversation about
how difficult it is to sit incertain seats right. So for me,
I'm reaching out to contacts and colleaguesin the space. And because since we're
being frank, the publishing industry hasbeen white for a very long time.
It's been white and male for eversince the beginning of traditional publishing. That's
(10:52):
what it's been. And it iswonderful to have ideals and say this is
what this is going to be,but the practicality in the walking it out
is a lot harder than I thinkwe ever dream of. That we give
(11:13):
our space, our self space toconsider, and that was where I found
myself was looking at it and saying, this is a beautiful idea that I
wholly believe in. Like I believein women over forty sharing their stories their
wisdom. Why is women writing?I believe in that both in romance and
in business, because I think there'ssomething to learn about the way that we
(11:35):
love ourselves and love each other,and there's something to be learned about the
way that we go about doing businessand showing up in corporate spaces. But
what I did not count on washow much emotion, how much I'm not
(11:56):
even gonna say the word effort,because effort, hard work is not a
thing for me. I've got fiftyeleven million things right, It's not a
hard thing for you, fifty million, eleven different things. But it was
an emotional toll. I heard aspeaker once I cannot remember her name,
but she said, sometimes it justgets exhausting explaining the need for this every
(12:18):
day as a black woman. AndI did not count on the level of
exhaustion that I would have having hardconversations every day, day in and day
out, and saying we need this, We've got to make this happen.
And so I said to you,I think that there is a moment of
pause and trust building that we haveto do. That has to happen,
(12:41):
because right now, if I goout and I say, hey, Rebecca
Books is doing this women over fortyda da da, and there's automatic question,
well, why now? Right?Why now? Why Rebecca? Why
now? Why now? What's changed? What's that sort of thing? And
you hear the question and you findyourself. For me, I found myself
(13:05):
being like, I don't know what'schanged outside of we know that it's time
and we need change, and nothaving the right words to articulate and not
wanting to be persuasive. Right.I don't want to have to convince you,
convince anyone that this is a goodidea. Right. I don't want
to be a salesperson to say letme, let me persuade you. Right.
(13:30):
I want to be able to haveauthentic conversations that say, hey,
here's this, there's this opportunity.Yeah. There was a woman who spoke
into how I operate these days andhave operated since twenty nineteen. She said
two things to me. One,she's very successful radio personality, has built
(13:52):
a decades long career there. Andthere's also a voiceover person And she came
to me one day and I wasstruggling first starting up One Sea, which
is the parent company of Rebecca Books, and I was starting up the One
Sea Story Network, and I wasin the exhaustion part of everything. Felt
I was back in that place ofpushing things uphill instead of letting things roll.
(14:15):
And she came to me and shesaid, you know, a good
thing to remember and to tell yourselfis simply look at the landscape of your
life. What's bringing joy? Putyour attention there. Don't put your attention
on the rest of it, justput your attention on the joy. And
it felt so very indulgent and almostto the point of laziness. Of Wait,
(14:35):
if I go over there and Idon't have to fight and I don't
have to struggle, and I don'thave to convince and persuade and cajole,
then am I doing it right?And it really I'm still five years later
and I'm still on the journey oflearning that that is as worthy, if
not more so, than continually choosinga fight, and so marrying that with
(14:56):
the concept of building a diverse abookline and company. I think if you
look at the projects within one cyou'll see the same thing. We've worked
with voiceover artists from sixty different countries, so many different walks of life.
It's an amazing experience for me asa writer and producer, but I hope
it's an amazing experience for them aswell, to be brought into a community
(15:16):
that is incredibly diverse, and it'swhat makes is so rich and fun to
be a part of, and funin terms of you get to learn so
much and see so much that youwouldn't otherwise know, and so for me,
in continually adopting that mindset and allowingmy life to unfold instead of pushing
(15:39):
my life and career to unfold,that's what brought me to doing Rebecca Books.
Rebecca Books was an idea for atleast two years before I actually acted
upon it, for actually told theworld this is what I'm going to do,
which was late last year. Butthat timing in my life does not
necessarily mirror the timing in all ofthe author's lives, right, and so
(16:00):
for some of them it may stillstill feel as if number one, no,
I'm supposed to be engaged in thestruggling part of it, and if
so, then we're not going tobe a good fit because that's not what
we do here. And number twoand you and I talked about this there.
When you're trying to do something new, there are phases to the identities
(16:21):
in the communities that are bringing aboutthat change. There's that initial phase,
which is where we are, andthat requires people who want to be primary
agents of change, that that's wherethey find their joy is in being a
primary agent of change. And thatcomes with I think what you've been talking
about, That comes with you know, some it's hard, it can be
(16:41):
exhausting, it can You do haveto explain yourself a lot. You do
have to assure a lot. Youhave to be willing to take a lot
of questions that on their at theirsurface level, are offensive or hard to
hear because they they are with accusationthat may not be specific to you.
(17:02):
I get that all the time,and that's just part of it. That's
part of being an agent of changeat the primary level. And then there's
the secondary level of change where you'vestarted the snowball a little bit, so
now there's a little more comfort levelfor others who have been harmed in that
space, they feel a little bitmore comfort to come in because there's a
little bit of a bigger community,so comfort in community, right, So
(17:26):
they'll they'll feel a little more comfortablein coming in at that second phase.
And then eventually we create what we'reafter, which is a larger movement that
everyone feels comfortable coming and being apart of and wants to be a part
of. Not just okay, Ican overcome my fears or my misgivings or
whatever, but is in that placeof flow, is excited and enthusiastic and
(17:49):
so our challenge at this phase isfinding those authors who their personalities are a
little bit more like mine of excitedand enthusiastic about first phase of change as
opposed to second or third or what'scoming after that. And I, I
mean, I am sorry that Idid not. I don't think I articulated
(18:11):
that well to you at all whenwe were starting out together. That how
it can be and is on alot of different fronts, really challenging and
exhausting to have to answer questions orshore up insecurities, or sit with people's
wounds that you didn't inflict and caremore about the human being in front of
(18:36):
you and tend to their wounds eventhough you're not the one that inflicted them,
but you are often being treated asthe one who did because you look
I look very much like what you. Yeah. So it's just it's a
it can't it's a it's a hardthing. It's a really hard thing.
Let's just be real about it.It's a hard thing. It's a worthy
thing, though, it's I feellike absolutely a right use of life and
(18:59):
talent and absolutely and for me becauseI do so much of that other work,
I do so much of that inmy other work, I am pushing
uphill most times. I would saythat it probably eighty five percent of my
work is towards justice and equity.And I'm learning right that while I want
(19:23):
to change everything in the world,I want to, you know, you've
got to pick and choose right basedon the reality of where you sit.
I keep a post it note righthere on my desk that says, it's
not a compromise, like not abad compromise, but a recognition of the
season you're in. And so I'vekept that with me for probably two years
(19:47):
now because there are some things thatfeel like they're never ending. There's some
things that it feels like it's nevergoing to change, it's never going to
but I have to recognize that it'sjust a season. And so for meognizing
what season again, can I servebest in what season? On my end?
And how can I show up andserve best and authentically wanting to give
(20:10):
to whatever causes and commitments that Itake on, wanting to give my awe
to those things right, and likeyou said, being able to sit with
someone and whatever their potential wounds are, the ones that they bring with them,
but also sitting with their possibility andbeing able to hold the space between
two and looking and finding the bestway to serve in that capacity, the
(20:36):
best way to show up in thatAnd like I said, I have one
thousand percent believe in the mission andthe vision of Rebecca Books like that is,
and I, since we're being Frank, not if I can, since
we are being Frank, I believein the badass woman behind Rebecca Books,
the Rebecca with the ones right there. I I believe in your experience,
(21:02):
your lived experience, and your learnedexperience. I believe in your ability to
affect this change because of what youhave experienced and what you've been through.
I absolutely believe in those things.And I'm absolutely going to support you on
the journey. Right. I justcan't do that. We're all gonna go
(21:22):
cry. Right, people listening tothis are gonna go cry. But I
believe in that. And this isnot me saying, ah, I'm done
with this, throw it away.I think it's we find comfort and encourage
in community. We are in communitytogether. It's just from a different perspective.
(21:44):
I want the person that sits inthe seat as acquisitions editor to have
all of the time and the energyand the joy to sit in that seat,
to show up in that space withthe same level of confidence and courage
that you show up as publisher andas leader in this It's going to take
a mighty fortress of collaborators right tostep forward and do this work, and
(22:15):
we all have a role to play. Right for me, I look at
you on the frontlines as a publishersaying this is what we're doing. We're
taking the publishing industry and we're turningit upside down. We are doing all
of the things that are totally againstwhat you're taught in business school about how
to build a business right. Businessschool teaches us to focus on middle aged
(22:38):
white people. That's the success,that's where the money is. Like that,
I went to business school. Iknow what they say, right.
They don't say it in those words, but that's the understanding. That's what
it means. Right. And Soif I have the ability as a writer
and an editor to come along besidethe next writer, the next author and
(22:59):
strengthen their voice, help them buildthe confidence and the courage in the way
that they show up and use theirvoice, I think that Rebecca Books becomes
a better house for them. Right. If I can say, hey,
use your voice. Your voice matterseven though it's been silenced for so long.
If I can help you find discovershape and share that voice, and
(23:19):
then you can go on to aRebecca Books. It takes all of us
on the supply chain when I thinkabout it, and I want to be
on that backside, right that keepsI think. The analogy I used during
our call on Friday was, thisisn't a domino where you press one thing
and it all goes in a straightline or whatever the design is. This
(23:40):
is ripples. So something can behappening over here and still impacting over there.
And that's what I feel like,Right, we have to all be
in our phase of the ripple tomake sure that the ripple continues. And
yeah, that's my thought. Nomore arms, no more arms, that's
the thought, right, that youhave thrown a mighty stone into a large
(24:04):
pond, and so now the ripples. We have to be there for the
ripples. What the ripple effect is. See, this is why I wish
we all had these kinds of conversationswhen the relationship changes, because there's so
much you know to learn and toexperience and enjoy in the after conversation in
(24:26):
the Okay, this isn't going tolook like going forward, this isn't going
to look like it looks like today. And I know when I was younger,
my instant tendency would be to shutdown, Oh well, you don't
want to be in relationship with meanymore, And so that always felt very
personal, even if it was career. So it was let me shut down
and throw up a barrier and thatperson's not for me. And I think
(24:47):
even we see that being encouraged insome ways, or at least I do
in my social media feeds of well, you know, if they're not serving
you immediately right, then then youjust cut them off. And it I
think that if you're going to haverelationships of depth and you're going to actually
learn something on this journey and trulyyou be the best person that you can
(25:11):
be, and also other people gettingto become the best people that they are,
then we have to have the afterconversations. So I know that it's
awkward. That's part of change,right, is being willing to do the
awkward thing, being courageous enough todo the Hey, this comes back to
(25:33):
being I'm almost forty, right.Each day is a day closer, you're
about to just a few months.It's gonna be great. How that's part
of the wisdom, right, becauseold me, young me, back then
me probably would have had the sameWell, we can't be in relationship.
This isn't working out, and sowe can't. But wise me says,
(25:56):
we can be in relationship and itcan evolve and it could still be beneficial,
it could still be filled with loveand support and encouragement. And and
my background is in theater and inimprov. The first rule of improv is
never say no. You always sayyes, and and you build on it.
(26:17):
Right, Yes, Rebecca Books isa great idea, and this is
what's happening next. Yes, RebeccaBooks is doing this, And here's what
the next opportunity looks like. Versusbeing like, nope, it's not Rebecca
Books for me. And that stopsthe movement. That stops the flow.
And you've talked a lot about flow. That stops the flow, yes,
(26:40):
and continues to flow. And soI'm I'm honored that I would have an
opportunity to continue the flow with you. Hey, you're you're a part of
the origin story here. You wereright there, yes, and still here
doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't change, and you're still here, just in
a different a fasty. She's stillan editor, she's still a ghost writer,
and we will absolutely be coming toyou hoping to use those services.
(27:03):
So you're not going away from theRebecca book story. You just have a
different character. That's a different character, a different role in this story.
Exactly, exactly. I really anotherfriend that I talked to this weekend about
this said, what a kindness thatyou gave to each other by being able
to have that conversation with each otherand be frank with each other. And
(27:26):
I think because I've been several yearsnow in this place of I do find
it easier to walk away from somethingthat's not authentic that because it's just uncomfortable
for me that I but that alsoleads to taking it for granted when someone
else is also comfortable and authenticity likeyou are. And so I thought about
my conversation with my friend after andI said, I don't think I said
(27:48):
what I should have at the endof our conversation, which was to thank
you, thank you for being honestwith me and frank with me about here's
here's where I am, here' wheremy head is, and my heart is,
and let's talk about it. Thatreally is a gift to gift to
somebody, and you gave it tome, and I appreciate. Thank you.
Wise women build, and even wiserwomen build together. Yes, it's
(28:10):
that whole you say. There's sayingsin your office. There's one in mine
up on my white board that says, competition happens at the bottom, collaboration
happens. We're collaborating. Maybe wepreferred operating. Yeah, Or the other
one that I have two. Theother one is if you want to go
fast, go alone. If youwant to go far, you go together.
Yes. I keep that proverb beforeto me as well, yeah,
(28:32):
yes, well, thank you forcoming back on. I appreciate it.
Now go right being a thank you, thank you, thank you to soon.
For much of my career it feelslike I chose to go it alone.
If you want something done right,do it yourself right. And maybe
(28:53):
that is true for some things.For this though, for building a traditional
royalty paying publishing line that is fourand about women over forty, and even
for the greater buildout of the parentcompany, the One Sea Story Network,
a different approach is warranted. Ateam approach a commitment to collaboration even when
(29:15):
the relationship needs to evolve into anew form. I am so grateful to
Danielle for the honesty that she bringsto our communication and for the space she
makes to receive my honesty in return. This is the spirit beneath the One
Sea Story Network ten. From projectto project, team member to team member,
(29:38):
each of us is responsible for ourown selves, for how we show
up in the group, for knowingwhat capacity is comfortable and what's not,
and for communicating that to each other. I revel in this kind of collaboration,
and if you do too, thenI invite you in check out Rebecca
(29:59):
books dot com for more information.On the next episode, I'm excited to
tell you the story of a veryspecial woman she was born all the way
back in eighteen ninety four, andhow her spirit is coming beneath this tent
as well. You've been listening toRaising Rebecca Books, the Birth of a
(30:23):
publishing House from the Ones Story Network. Subscribe to the show wherever you get
your podcasts and learn more at Rebeccabooks dot com. That's r E B
e c A Books dot com.The One See Story Network for the love
(31:04):
of stories,
Welcome to the sixth episode, chapterif you will, of Raising Rebecca Books
The Birth of a Publishing House.This is the audio story of me Rebecca
Sites, building a traditional royalty payingpublishing house from the ground up, told
to you as it unfolds two episodesago. In chapter four, you got
to hear directly from the new acquisition'seditor of Rebecca Books, the unestimable Danielle
(00:37):
Butler. Well, in true startupfashion, this episode comes with some surprising
news from Danielle. Stick around throughthe ad and you'll hear it straight from
her. You're listening to Raising RebeccaBooks The Birth of a Publishing House on
the one C Story Network. OneC is made possible in part by the
(00:58):
support of the following sponsor her keepit to legal language from this point,
Well, welcome back to the RaisingRebecca Books podcast. I'd never dreamt when
(01:23):
we had our last conversation that wewould today be recording this kind of conversation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, meeither, yeah me either. I'm
gonna agree with that. We're probablythe listeners are probably like, what is
she? What is she talking about? Do you want to tell them of
the change or do you want meto tell them of the change. No,
(01:45):
I'm happy to do this. Sothank you all for tuning into Rebecca
Books. This is such a coolplatform and to get a peek behind the
process right of building something and makingit great. I'm e Danielle Butler,
and I am here because I hada change of part and while I am
(02:13):
one thousand percent in love with themission and the focus and the purpose and
the energy and intention behind Rebecca Books, I've been off more than I could
chew when I said I can bean acquisition's editor right now for this new
(02:34):
startup in the midst of all ofthe fifty thousand, million, eleven other
things that are going on, Andyeah, a change is happening. Rebecca
Books is doing its thing and I'mexcited to witness the journey. I just
won't be a part of the historymaking in this moment. So thank you
(02:59):
Rebecca for letting me share this andus having this conversation this platform. I
think one of the great things isthat Rebecca Books, particularly on this podcast,
raising Rebecca Books, is the transparencyof the ups and downs of building
something and this is yeah, theseare this is that I told somebody,
(03:21):
Danielle, I told somebody over theweekend. So this happened on Thursday,
right, and we're recording this ona Monday. Is that Thursday or Friday?
Friday? Friday? Sorry, hey, listen, this is the Monday
after Super Bowl, right, whichI think she'd be a national holiday at
this point because I completely agree withthat, especially if it goes into overtime.
I fascionally we should be given yesday. So this's happened on Friday.
(03:46):
And so I was talking to afriend about over the weekend and she
said, oh my gosh, yourlast episode was Danielle, what are you
going to do? And I said, you know what, I think I'm
just gonna ask her to come onagain and talk with me about it.
And there was silence on the phoneand she said you're gonna what. Yeah,
I said, I know, that'snot like typical, But it's not
as if we're doing anything typical here. It's not as if that's the way
(04:10):
of being anyway. And I thinkI want people to understand that just because
you do have a million eleventy thingsgoing on, and so being full time
acquisitions editor Rebecca Books is just notfeasible. I do want people to understand
that's not like we're not going tobe working with Danielle or she's not going
to be working with us, Danielleas an editor and a ghostwriter in all
(04:32):
the first So it's not it's it'sin my experience in relationships that are led
with masculine energy, when you decideto step back from a role, then
you're cut off. And I thinka really good example of that is Harry,
Right, Harry, I mean,he's like he tried to just step
(04:54):
back and look at what happened.And granted that's extreme, but I'm just
like, it doesn't have to bethe that way. We are allowed to
redefine the boundaries of relationship and howwe're interacting with each other, and if
we're an authentic relationship, then that'spossible. Right. Everybody is giving each
other grace, we're all figuring itout at any given moment. No one
(05:14):
has it completely figured out ever,And so I really appreciated that you came
to me and you said, Okay, you know what, I think this
is not for me. I thinkthis is not the right role. I'm
in the wrong seat. I shouldn'tbe doing this. And we had this
really lovely, hard, hard,hard but lovely conversation about what's going on?
Why is this happening? Is theresomething inside Rebecca Books that needs to
(05:38):
change, Is there something in theway I'm interacting with you that needs to
change, or is this an outsidething that's happening. What's going on?
And I just this not being thefirst business that I've ever started, I
want people to know this is astandard part of it. People come in,
people come out, especially in thebeginning as everybody is testing out roles
and figuring out what works and ifthey're good fits. But I also wanted
(06:01):
us to talk about there because therewas a component of this that, if
you're comfortable talking about, that isspecific to what Rebecca Books is trying to
do, and that is when we'retrying to create a truly diverse community of
voices and product. There's so manylandmines there, and so many difficulties and
(06:23):
challenges to face that aren't present ifyou're frankly, they're just not if you're
putting together a different kind of aline. If I I mean, just
to speak frankly, if I wasgoing out and finding a bunch of forty
five year old white women to writeromance books, this would be a different
experience than what I'm having. Therewould be different conversations for me to have
with authors and agents. I thinkthey would have been different conversations than you
(06:45):
experienced with authors. And so Iwanted us to talk about that, frankly,
so that people could, again withthat transparency, with that authenticity,
understand it's not like you just wakeup one morning and go, I know
what I'm going to do. I'mgoing to create a book. Yeah,
it's going to be this beautifully colorful, diverse array of voices and stories,
(07:09):
and like it's not as if everyauthor goes great. I want to be
a part of that. Yeah.So I think the way that you've described
it, right like that, thisthis it was a lovely conversation and a
hard conversation. I think the firstthing is to say we can do hard
things and they can still be lovely, right like that is like things can
(07:30):
change. And as I look atyou as a woman building a business,
at women building businesses, one ofthe things that we have not been afforded
the opportunity to do is peek intothe backside of the business. Right we
get to see the outside, sowe often don't get to see what the
hard conversations are like, we oftendon't get to to see what led to
(07:56):
what became right? And we hadyou and I had a meeting last week,
and we're talking about sales, right, How do we approach sales and
marketing? We were talking about distribution, right, where do things? Where
do certain people shop for books?What is the best what is in the
best interest of our authors and readers? And one of the things as you
(08:20):
were going through that list, therewas a question for me that rose up
immediately, and that question was amI in the best seat to serve?
Am I in the best seat toserve? As we were talking about all
of these things, I was like, Yes, I can be this gatekeeper
as an acquisition's editor right where it'slike, ah, send us your stories,
(08:41):
because we're going to look at themand give them a very real and
reasonable look. We're going to takeour time and actually do that, not
just kind of pass it over.We're a real people doing this, right.
But then there was also the conversationof sales and marketing and distribution,
what I better be seated in thatside of the house, right, and
(09:03):
supporting and saying voices of color bipopauthors, things like that sometimes have a
different way, oftentimes have a differentway of how we disseminate and receive our
information. Amazon, Yes, isthe largest bookseller in the world, but
there are other booksellers and other waysthat distribution happens, right, And so
(09:24):
then I questioned myself would it bebetter? Would I be better served in
sales and marketing and figuring out whatchannels would serve really well for the books.
And then the third component of thatconversation was what about bipop authors that
have incredible stories to tell, butthey're just not writers. They're not good
(09:45):
writers, They're not writers, youknow, So how do we support them?
Right? We pair them with editors, we pair them with ghost writers
or collaborators, and that is myprimary willhouse. So for me, it
was one of those ooh, whatis the what is the place that I
could serve best and serve well?And as I thought about all of the
(10:05):
things that was monumental for me likethat, if I had to point to
a specific moment, right, ifI had to, it was walking away
and saying, am I serving?Am I offering my best service in this
space? And so what does thatlook like? And then you and I
(10:28):
the conversation that we're referring to.On Friday, we had a conversation about
how difficult it is to sit incertain seats right. So for me,
I'm reaching out to contacts and colleaguesin the space. And because since we're
being frank, the publishing industry hasbeen white for a very long time.
It's been white and male for eversince the beginning of traditional publishing. That's
(10:52):
what it's been. And it iswonderful to have ideals and say this is
what this is going to be,but the practicality in the walking it out
is a lot harder than I thinkwe ever dream of. That we give
(11:13):
our space, our self space toconsider, and that was where I found
myself was looking at it and saying, this is a beautiful idea that I
wholly believe in. Like I believein women over forty sharing their stories their
wisdom. Why is women writing?I believe in that both in romance and
in business, because I think there'ssomething to learn about the way that we
(11:35):
love ourselves and love each other,and there's something to be learned about the
way that we go about doing businessand showing up in corporate spaces. But
what I did not count on washow much emotion, how much I'm not
(11:56):
even gonna say the word effort,because effort, hard work is not a
thing for me. I've got fiftyeleven million things right, It's not a
hard thing for you, fifty million, eleven different things. But it was
an emotional toll. I heard aspeaker once I cannot remember her name,
but she said, sometimes it justgets exhausting explaining the need for this every
(12:18):
day as a black woman. AndI did not count on the level of
exhaustion that I would have having hardconversations every day, day in and day
out, and saying we need this, We've got to make this happen.
And so I said to you,I think that there is a moment of
pause and trust building that we haveto do. That has to happen,
(12:41):
because right now, if I goout and I say, hey, Rebecca
Books is doing this women over fortyda da da, and there's automatic question,
well, why now? Right?Why now? Why Rebecca? Why
now? Why now? What's changed? What's that sort of thing? And
you hear the question and you findyourself. For me, I found myself
(13:05):
being like, I don't know what'schanged outside of we know that it's time
and we need change, and nothaving the right words to articulate and not
wanting to be persuasive. Right.I don't want to have to convince you,
convince anyone that this is a goodidea. Right. I don't want
to be a salesperson to say letme, let me persuade you. Right.
(13:30):
I want to be able to haveauthentic conversations that say, hey,
here's this, there's this opportunity.Yeah. There was a woman who spoke
into how I operate these days andhave operated since twenty nineteen. She said
two things to me. One,she's very successful radio personality, has built
(13:52):
a decades long career there. Andthere's also a voiceover person And she came
to me one day and I wasstruggling first starting up One Sea, which
is the parent company of Rebecca Books, and I was starting up the One
Sea Story Network, and I wasin the exhaustion part of everything. Felt
I was back in that place ofpushing things uphill instead of letting things roll.
(14:15):
And she came to me and shesaid, you know, a good
thing to remember and to tell yourselfis simply look at the landscape of your
life. What's bringing joy? Putyour attention there. Don't put your attention
on the rest of it, justput your attention on the joy. And
it felt so very indulgent and almostto the point of laziness. Of Wait,
(14:35):
if I go over there and Idon't have to fight and I don't
have to struggle, and I don'thave to convince and persuade and cajole,
then am I doing it right?And it really I'm still five years later
and I'm still on the journey oflearning that that is as worthy, if
not more so, than continually choosinga fight, and so marrying that with
(14:56):
the concept of building a diverse abookline and company. I think if you
look at the projects within one cyou'll see the same thing. We've worked
with voiceover artists from sixty different countries, so many different walks of life.
It's an amazing experience for me asa writer and producer, but I hope
it's an amazing experience for them aswell, to be brought into a community
(15:16):
that is incredibly diverse, and it'swhat makes is so rich and fun to
be a part of, and funin terms of you get to learn so
much and see so much that youwouldn't otherwise know, and so for me,
in continually adopting that mindset and allowingmy life to unfold instead of pushing
(15:39):
my life and career to unfold,that's what brought me to doing Rebecca Books.
Rebecca Books was an idea for atleast two years before I actually acted
upon it, for actually told theworld this is what I'm going to do,
which was late last year. Butthat timing in my life does not
necessarily mirror the timing in all ofthe author's lives, right, and so
(16:00):
for some of them it may stillstill feel as if number one, no,
I'm supposed to be engaged in thestruggling part of it, and if
so, then we're not going tobe a good fit because that's not what
we do here. And number twoand you and I talked about this there.
When you're trying to do something new, there are phases to the identities
(16:21):
in the communities that are bringing aboutthat change. There's that initial phase,
which is where we are, andthat requires people who want to be primary
agents of change, that that's wherethey find their joy is in being a
primary agent of change. And thatcomes with I think what you've been talking
about, That comes with you know, some it's hard, it can be
(16:41):
exhausting, it can You do haveto explain yourself a lot. You do
have to assure a lot. Youhave to be willing to take a lot
of questions that on their at theirsurface level, are offensive or hard to
hear because they they are with accusationthat may not be specific to you.
(17:02):
I get that all the time,and that's just part of it. That's
part of being an agent of changeat the primary level. And then there's
the secondary level of change where you'vestarted the snowball a little bit, so
now there's a little more comfort levelfor others who have been harmed in that
space, they feel a little bitmore comfort to come in because there's a
little bit of a bigger community,so comfort in community, right, So
(17:26):
they'll they'll feel a little more comfortablein coming in at that second phase.
And then eventually we create what we'reafter, which is a larger movement that
everyone feels comfortable coming and being apart of and wants to be a part
of. Not just okay, Ican overcome my fears or my misgivings or
whatever, but is in that placeof flow, is excited and enthusiastic and
(17:49):
so our challenge at this phase isfinding those authors who their personalities are a
little bit more like mine of excitedand enthusiastic about first phase of change as
opposed to second or third or what'scoming after that. And I, I
mean, I am sorry that Idid not. I don't think I articulated
(18:11):
that well to you at all whenwe were starting out together. That how
it can be and is on alot of different fronts, really challenging and
exhausting to have to answer questions orshore up insecurities, or sit with people's
wounds that you didn't inflict and caremore about the human being in front of
(18:36):
you and tend to their wounds eventhough you're not the one that inflicted them,
but you are often being treated asthe one who did because you look
I look very much like what you. Yeah. So it's just it's a
it can't it's a it's a hardthing. It's a really hard thing.
Let's just be real about it.It's a hard thing. It's a worthy
thing, though, it's I feellike absolutely a right use of life and
(18:59):
talent and absolutely and for me becauseI do so much of that other work,
I do so much of that inmy other work, I am pushing
uphill most times. I would saythat it probably eighty five percent of my
work is towards justice and equity.And I'm learning right that while I want
(19:23):
to change everything in the world,I want to, you know, you've
got to pick and choose right basedon the reality of where you sit.
I keep a post it note righthere on my desk that says, it's
not a compromise, like not abad compromise, but a recognition of the
season you're in. And so I'vekept that with me for probably two years
(19:47):
now because there are some things thatfeel like they're never ending. There's some
things that it feels like it's nevergoing to change, it's never going to
but I have to recognize that it'sjust a season. And so for meognizing
what season again, can I servebest in what season? On my end?
And how can I show up andserve best and authentically wanting to give
(20:10):
to whatever causes and commitments that Itake on, wanting to give my awe
to those things right, and likeyou said, being able to sit with
someone and whatever their potential wounds are, the ones that they bring with them,
but also sitting with their possibility andbeing able to hold the space between
two and looking and finding the bestway to serve in that capacity, the
(20:36):
best way to show up in thatAnd like I said, I have one
thousand percent believe in the mission andthe vision of Rebecca Books like that is,
and I, since we're being Frank, not if I can, since
we are being Frank, I believein the badass woman behind Rebecca Books,
the Rebecca with the ones right there. I I believe in your experience,
(21:02):
your lived experience, and your learnedexperience. I believe in your ability to
affect this change because of what youhave experienced and what you've been through.
I absolutely believe in those things.And I'm absolutely going to support you on
the journey. Right. I justcan't do that. We're all gonna go
(21:22):
cry. Right, people listening tothis are gonna go cry. But I
believe in that. And this isnot me saying, ah, I'm done
with this, throw it away.I think it's we find comfort and encourage
in community. We are in communitytogether. It's just from a different perspective.
(21:44):
I want the person that sits inthe seat as acquisitions editor to have
all of the time and the energyand the joy to sit in that seat,
to show up in that space withthe same level of confidence and courage
that you show up as publisher andas leader in this It's going to take
a mighty fortress of collaborators right tostep forward and do this work, and
(22:15):
we all have a role to play. Right for me, I look at
you on the frontlines as a publishersaying this is what we're doing. We're
taking the publishing industry and we're turningit upside down. We are doing all
of the things that are totally againstwhat you're taught in business school about how
to build a business right. Businessschool teaches us to focus on middle aged
(22:38):
white people. That's the success,that's where the money is. Like that,
I went to business school. Iknow what they say, right.
They don't say it in those words, but that's the understanding. That's what
it means. Right. And Soif I have the ability as a writer
and an editor to come along besidethe next writer, the next author and
(22:59):
strengthen their voice, help them buildthe confidence and the courage in the way
that they show up and use theirvoice, I think that Rebecca Books becomes
a better house for them. Right. If I can say, hey,
use your voice. Your voice matterseven though it's been silenced for so long.
If I can help you find discovershape and share that voice, and
(23:19):
then you can go on to aRebecca Books. It takes all of us
on the supply chain when I thinkabout it, and I want to be
on that backside, right that keepsI think. The analogy I used during
our call on Friday was, thisisn't a domino where you press one thing
and it all goes in a straightline or whatever the design is. This
(23:40):
is ripples. So something can behappening over here and still impacting over there.
And that's what I feel like,Right, we have to all be
in our phase of the ripple tomake sure that the ripple continues. And
yeah, that's my thought. Nomore arms, no more arms, that's
the thought, right, that youhave thrown a mighty stone into a large
(24:04):
pond, and so now the ripples. We have to be there for the
ripples. What the ripple effect is. See, this is why I wish
we all had these kinds of conversationswhen the relationship changes, because there's so
much you know to learn and toexperience and enjoy in the after conversation in
(24:26):
the Okay, this isn't going tolook like going forward, this isn't going
to look like it looks like today. And I know when I was younger,
my instant tendency would be to shutdown, Oh well, you don't
want to be in relationship with meanymore, And so that always felt very
personal, even if it was career. So it was let me shut down
and throw up a barrier and thatperson's not for me. And I think
(24:47):
even we see that being encouraged insome ways, or at least I do
in my social media feeds of well, you know, if they're not serving
you immediately right, then then youjust cut them off. And it I
think that if you're going to haverelationships of depth and you're going to actually
learn something on this journey and trulyyou be the best person that you can
(25:11):
be, and also other people gettingto become the best people that they are,
then we have to have the afterconversations. So I know that it's
awkward. That's part of change,right, is being willing to do the
awkward thing, being courageous enough todo the Hey, this comes back to
(25:33):
being I'm almost forty, right.Each day is a day closer, you're
about to just a few months.It's gonna be great. How that's part
of the wisdom, right, becauseold me, young me, back then
me probably would have had the sameWell, we can't be in relationship.
This isn't working out, and sowe can't. But wise me says,
(25:56):
we can be in relationship and itcan evolve and it could still be beneficial,
it could still be filled with loveand support and encouragement. And and
my background is in theater and inimprov. The first rule of improv is
never say no. You always sayyes, and and you build on it.
(26:17):
Right, Yes, Rebecca Books isa great idea, and this is
what's happening next. Yes, RebeccaBooks is doing this, And here's what
the next opportunity looks like. Versusbeing like, nope, it's not Rebecca
Books for me. And that stopsthe movement. That stops the flow.
And you've talked a lot about flow. That stops the flow, yes,
(26:40):
and continues to flow. And soI'm I'm honored that I would have an
opportunity to continue the flow with you. Hey, you're you're a part of
the origin story here. You wereright there, yes, and still here
doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't change, and you're still here, just in
a different a fasty. She's stillan editor, she's still a ghost writer,
and we will absolutely be coming toyou hoping to use those services.
(27:03):
So you're not going away from theRebecca book story. You just have a
different character. That's a different character, a different role in this story.
Exactly, exactly. I really anotherfriend that I talked to this weekend about
this said, what a kindness thatyou gave to each other by being able
to have that conversation with each otherand be frank with each other. And
(27:26):
I think because I've been several yearsnow in this place of I do find
it easier to walk away from somethingthat's not authentic that because it's just uncomfortable
for me that I but that alsoleads to taking it for granted when someone
else is also comfortable and authenticity likeyou are. And so I thought about
my conversation with my friend after andI said, I don't think I said
(27:48):
what I should have at the endof our conversation, which was to thank
you, thank you for being honestwith me and frank with me about here's
here's where I am, here' wheremy head is, and my heart is,
and let's talk about it. Thatreally is a gift to gift to
somebody, and you gave it tome, and I appreciate. Thank you.
Wise women build, and even wiserwomen build together. Yes, it's
(28:10):
that whole you say. There's sayingsin your office. There's one in mine
up on my white board that says, competition happens at the bottom, collaboration
happens. We're collaborating. Maybe wepreferred operating. Yeah, Or the other
one that I have two. Theother one is if you want to go
fast, go alone. If youwant to go far, you go together.
Yes. I keep that proverb beforeto me as well, yeah,
(28:32):
yes, well, thank you forcoming back on. I appreciate it.
Now go right being a thank you, thank you, thank you to soon.
For much of my career it feelslike I chose to go it alone.
If you want something done right,do it yourself right. And maybe
(28:53):
that is true for some things.For this though, for building a traditional
royalty paying publishing line that is fourand about women over forty, and even
for the greater buildout of the parentcompany, the One Sea Story Network,
a different approach is warranted. Ateam approach a commitment to collaboration even when
(29:15):
the relationship needs to evolve into anew form. I am so grateful to
Danielle for the honesty that she bringsto our communication and for the space she
makes to receive my honesty in return. This is the spirit beneath the One
Sea Story Network ten. From projectto project, team member to team member,
(29:38):
each of us is responsible for ourown selves, for how we show
up in the group, for knowingwhat capacity is comfortable and what's not,
and for communicating that to each other. I revel in this kind of collaboration,
and if you do too, thenI invite you in check out Rebecca
(29:59):
books dot com for more information.On the next episode, I'm excited to
tell you the story of a veryspecial woman she was born all the way
back in eighteen ninety four, andhow her spirit is coming beneath this tent
as well. You've been listening toRaising Rebecca Books, the Birth of a
(30:23):
publishing House from the Ones Story Network. Subscribe to the show wherever you get
your podcasts and learn more at Rebeccabooks dot com. That's r E B
e c A Books dot com.The One See Story Network for the love
(31:04):
of stories,
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