Beyond the Draft Part 2

Part 2 of 2. This is the continuation of the conversation with Gen Z. Also brought to you by www.holvertravel.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back. This whole notion of being twice as good?
Is that something your generation even talks about? You know,
we talked about it a lot, and that was something
you know, our parents instilled into us. And you know
you did did did did Johnny putting you to putting
putting them on the spot? Did Johnny Grigg talk to
y'all about being twice as good when y'all were coming up?

(00:21):
Or was that just something because you had high achieving
parents that was kind of built in?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Was or was that?

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Was there actual conversations about that.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Whether conversations about being twice as good, like well like
the scandal conversation where that Olivia Poe's dad had where like, no,
be honest, I don't remember if there was, I don't
remember them, To be completely honest with you, I don't
remember to be I never, I honestly never really associated

(00:49):
any of my capabilities with like white people at all.
Like as I gotten older and I think about like
in height and UH and grammar school, I never thought
about white people like.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
You, like, I mean, like they were there lives.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
He was not an idiot like I under I could
see there were differences, but I never like, oh, I
have to be to I have to be mid like,
I have to be the best person I have to.
It's like, oh, I think through experience in life you
start that.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Other people are treated differently.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
But there was never really a mindset where like, before
you go to school, listen, you gotta get straight a's
because if you don't, the white person gonna get treated different.
Like No, it was like be your best person, be
your best put your best foot forward. It was all
about my kind of developments as a man, myself, not
really worrying about what other folks are kind of doing.

(01:45):
And I think, you know, I think that was a
great thing to do. But I also don't think that's
too unique for my generation. And at least I think
a lot of us are kind of more farid in
that way of like we know it's there, but that's
not the focus that.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
You know, we have.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
I totally agree.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
I totally agree with that too.

Speaker 5 (02:05):
Like, yeah, my pops never was I wouldn't say hard
on me, like in terms of like, oh you gotta
do this, you gotta do that, but he was definitely
pushing me to be my best self, you know what
I mean. I always always give my best. You know
what I mean, if I'm gonna do it, I mean
give my all, you know what I mean type thing.
If I'm gonna do it, just do it, like don't
don't just be sitting there, just be yes. And so

(02:25):
it's just like it was never like, oh you gotta
do it. If you don't do it, your life is
over with, you know what I mean. It was just
more so like you just got to get your best,
you know what I mean. That's just life though, with
anything you do, you just want to get your best
because and I mean just going through life, I always
realized it. I mean, just like he said, like Miles said,
through experiences you learn, like I mean, giving your best
is just I mean, it's just how you reflect it.

(02:47):
So I mean it's just like it's just better to
get your best at everything you do because people are
you never know who's watching. You just never know who's
watching or what people are paying attention to. So it's
just always good to just always do your best. That's
just how I was raised. I just never I never
looked that and like, oh man, I got to be
the koderest black boy out of this because I did
go to a like Promedy, I can't even say it
like primity like white school, you know what I mean,

(03:08):
like predominantly white school whatever for high school or whatever.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
So in a sense, it was like I was kind
of like.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
Left out, you know what I mean, Like I was like,
I mean, I had my friends or whatever, but I
never but I never looked at it like a competition.
That's what I'm trying to say. I just always just
focused on myself, you know what I mean. I never
looked at with the white kids.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
They didn't really conserve me.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
And it's funny that you say that about the school,
because I was just about to bring that up. I
think the schools that I went to really hammered home
that idea. Like in my grammar school was extremely multicultural.
Like I remember being in classes and my friend group
was like it was like this Japanese girl, there was
a girl from Russia. There was a French person, there

(03:50):
was a person from Israel, and then there were like
black kids. And then I had my teachers were black.
I was fortunate enough to have a teacher that I
had most of the time. Shout out to mister Brookins.
He you know, it was like there was no really
questions about my juxtaposition.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
With me and white people.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
It was like you be you like you you like,
be yourself, push yourself, do your best thing. But I
will say that that competition did form when I got
to high school. For my first two years of high school,
I went to a Catholic school Chicago, predominantly white, and
that's where I started to see the real kind of competition, honestly,

(04:28):
competition between you know, black students and white students in
terms of sports, education, every facet of life at that school,
like you know, yeah, it was a it was a
white Irish Catholic school, so we were kind of the
outsiders in that school, and they made they made that
very known, Like the students made that very known. The teachers,
I feel like, made that very known. We were treated

(04:50):
very differently in ways that I noticed more leaving it,
but started to become clicks. Like black people did not
really hang around other white kids after school, which was
pretty crazy when it was like at lunch tables, it
would clearly be a divide. But yeah, no, growing up,
I think, you know, the schools that I went to
helped reinforce me not really looking over my shoulder to

(05:10):
see you know, juxpos myself.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
I mean, and I just want to jump off of that.

Speaker 5 (05:15):
It's actually kind of funny hearing that because like you're
coming from up north and it's like me being down South,
like I honestly never really like of course, like there's
people who have like I mean, we're gonna have an
incidents where I mean, of course you're not gonna get
it wrong like black and white. But I mean I'm
gonna say, like my specific part my city too, like
we really never had that problem, Like it really was

(05:36):
never like based off like race, like which is which
is actually kind of funny though hearing that from somebody
who's a northerner, Like I never really had no like
my friends is white. I had hazy friends I had
I had black friends, I had white friends. But I
will say this though, like things did change when we
graduated though, you know what I mean, Like when when
we graduated, things definitely started. I would say, quote unquote

(05:57):
fell in their place or like kind of how like
I always would like assumed it to always be like okay,
like okay, they staying in that click or I ain't
never heard I ain't heard from them forever.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (06:06):
My talking about my white classmates or even this and that,
you know what I mean, like or like my Mexican
you know what I mean. It's just like they just
kind of did their own thing and ended up with
their people, you know what I mean in the sense.
But it's like going through a high school. It definitely
wasn't something I never I never paidy paid attention to it,
even though it probably was going on.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
I'm not saying it definitely wasn't.

Speaker 5 (06:26):
It probably was going on, but it's it's definitely it
is interesting to hear that even it was happening even
in the northern spots, because from my perspective, that is
more of like a multi culture.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
Like you said, it's more I'm thinking everybody get along,
you know what i mean.

Speaker 5 (06:38):
I'm thinking like, oh, it's all love, you know what
I mean, It's okay, Like okay, that's interesting, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
That's that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah. No, Chicago, Chicago lands very segregated. Yeah, I was
gonna say the same thing like two A couple of things.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
One, obviously I'm from Chicago, but it still feels wild
to be referred to as the North.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
I'm not gonna West Midwest.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
I never really oh no, no, no, no, you know what
I'm saying, Like I get what you meant, but I'm
saying like I don't know. I always feel like Chicago
is his own play like when I think about I
don't know, it's just just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
You got.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
For sure, yeah yeah yeah, but no, I mean like
Chicago was interested like like Rick said, like you know,
it's the most segregated city in American I think it
wasn't like we were like black and white folks were
fighting every day, Like it wasn't like that, but like

(07:39):
they were like so the area is Bridgeport in Chicago,
and like the Bridgeport like white guys like they were
they were loudly like racist. Like we would laugh about
it though, like I'm gonna be honest with you, like
we weren't like like man, he's being racist, Like we
would be like we would be like that's how he is.
Like he would say they would say wild ship and

(07:59):
like crazy sorry they would say, wow, you know me,
But that was just like we knew that that's what
they were on. Like they say crazy stuff about like
our hair stuff like that. We go back at them too,
like but like that was just how how it was.
And then when lunch will can we be by ourselves?
The basketball team would kind of separate, but it was
like it wasn't content like we knew it was there,

(08:21):
but it wasn't like, oh man, I wish we could
all just get along, but like we're all just fine
with it like so, but yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
It was.

Speaker 5 (08:28):
It was an interesting even the piggyback on that cause
I know, I just I do I do we might
as well dive into it.

Speaker 4 (08:34):
So I mean, like just hearing what you're saying, like I.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
Feel like and even with the whole media thing, do
you feel like it is like because I'm gonna just
be real, like coming from a kid from North Carolina
hearing about the stuff that goes on in Chicago, so
like I can I can kind of see not saying
it's right, but just playing Devil's advocate for these white
kids or whatever. It's like I'm hearing like, oh you homeboy,
little Ray Ray killed a little little too too whatever,

(08:57):
you know what I mean for whatever, like quickie claim
and you know what I mean, Like, and this is
going on every day, but it's like going it's like
ten times, like you know what I mean like exaggerate
or whatever to a whole nother extent in the Chicago,
you know what I mean. So I'm not saying this right,
that they coming at us like racist whatever. I'm not
saying it's right, but I could definitely see how the
media he's even portraying like black kids out of that

(09:20):
out of those areas as even like these kind of
people like oh, like don't mess with him, don't talk
to him, he gonna hurt you, or you can't trust him,
he'll rob you. So it's like that's already they come
in and thinking that's who you are, even though they
don't even know you, like you said, like they hadn't
even talked to you, they haven't even got to know you.
But it's like that's the whole media playing that role.
That's the whole media, just like they if they really
did maybe talk to you, they really they realize, oh

(09:42):
we got a lot of similarities, or I like this,
I like that, Oh I like I listen to this.
But it's like they too stuck on the media who
image they want you to be, you know what I mean, Like, Oh,
that's what he is, I know he is that he
acting like this but I know, I know he's that,
you know what I mean, That's just that's what they believe,
Isn't that what.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
We said a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
If you say, if you say you're from Chicago, yeah,
take a step back right, pretty much any anywhere in
the world right from Chicago, they said.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
Yeah, exactly, take a little step back right.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
The crazy part about it, too, I'm glad you kind
of brought that up, is because I grew My high
school experience was a very very pivotal time in Chicago
because that was when Chief Keith and Loud Dirt and
that was that was my childhood, like when Chicago was
putting on the map ass quote unquote Chiraq and and

(10:37):
drilling on like that was when that was.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
The music we were listening to and grammar school and
high school.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
So that definitely formed the whole Chicago in terms of
like what everybody was doing, what everybody was listening to
and feeling. I think though, the issue that I had
with it, and the issue that I think people noticed
back then was not them like being It was more
authority these reaction to both of us that which I

(11:03):
think was the issue, Like I think between us like
of course there was fractions in it, but like we.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Would do very similar things.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
We would be dumb high school kids, like you know
what I'm saying, Like we're like we would be dumb
high school.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Like it was a it was an all boys Catholic school.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
Were all in there, smelling like, you know, terrible, like
not showering, going crazy like doing like you know, kids stuff.
But the reactions to them were very, very different. And
then that I think the thing that regardless of any
kind of external media that they consuming that they had
a direct decision to do. And I think, you know,

(11:41):
for me, I actually kind of got separated a lot
from a lot of the black kids in at Delas,
the school I went to, because I was in the
honors classes there as well, and there was two or
three black kids in the in the honors class and
everybody else was either Mexican, White, or Asian. And then

(12:02):
that I felt real isolated there.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
That was I got crazy stories.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
We want to hear him about that, but like you know,
I I think it was more so the upper like
teachers and their response to us that was really the
thing that was detrim because as kids will figure.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
It out, like at the end of the day, we
were separate, but like we were interact.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
It wasn't like we were like, don't talk to him,
like it was like the nineteen six or something like that.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
We would interact, but administration would treat us both.

Speaker 5 (12:29):
So funny that you said, I guess, I mean, I
guess it's I guess I just really wasn't paying attention.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
I guess I was just all over my own world.

Speaker 5 (12:35):
But it's like it's funny though, like when I do
look back, cause it's like I did get in.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
Trouble for like it was a moment.

Speaker 5 (12:41):
I did have a moment with one of my teachers
in high school where she she literally took me out
to class for something that really wasn't even it was
never serious, like I had the whole class laugh, and
it was I can't even remember what happened. I just
remember she said something and I just made a comment back.
It wasn't even nothing disrespectful. It was just the fact
that I made the class laugh or something, you know
what I mean, Like, oh, he think, Oh he funny guy,

(13:01):
you know what I mean. Like so she just had
to make an example out of me, and whole time,
like I was just standing up for myself if anything,
you know what I mean, Just like okay, like you're
not finna just talk to me, like because at the
end of the day, I am still a young black
male and it was an older white lady. So it's
just like I just felt like that infory, that infurity
that was just like I felt that smug that So
I just felt like I just felt compelled to just

(13:22):
say something back, even though you know what I mean,
looking back on it, maybe I should have been the
better you know, I mean, the bigger person let it go.
But even then as an adult, she exactly as an
adult she should she should have just let it go
as well, you know what I mean. But she made
a big deal out of it, and I didn't get
in trouble for it, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
Like, like I said to my parents, they obviously thought
it was it was stupid.

Speaker 5 (13:41):
It was something that it should have never got It
should have never got took in the weird got took to,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
So it's like it is it's funny that you say that.

Speaker 5 (13:47):
It's like, yeah, it definitely wasn't in a sense of
double standard, you know what I mean, Like I just
never paid attention.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
To it, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (13:53):
But now you do say it, like, yeah, that that
is weird that I did get put in that position
for something that that's small.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, no, like yeah, and that happens all the time.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
That happens all the time through all across the nation
and all of our public education systems, you know, like
boys getting put in their place by some by some
authority figure that doesn't think that they should be allowed
to grow or they should be allowed to express themselves
the same way that they're allowing these white boys.

Speaker 6 (14:21):
To do it.

Speaker 7 (14:21):
Although I was just at the cariat the school Miles
was talking. He was not a public one. So no, no, no,
it's just public rand. It's bigger than that. And I
think it was right.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
And just a couple of things about that real quick,
like just a tangible thing that you all can do.
So at this Catholic school, as I said, some of
the white students would have like hair, like they would
grow their hair out.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
You know they're long.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
Right, and that's you know, fine, like whatever to be
between you and I wouldn't look.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
The best and would't smell the best. Right, It was
not the.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
Most optet right, but right, black students, there was a
rule that we could not have afros.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Their afros were many.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
That rule has since changed, I believe, but there was
a certain left you have to have your hair. And
I remember vividly having a conversation with my dean and
I was like, yo, like why can't he have his
hair is longer than mine, like his hair is at
his shoulder. Why why do I have to cut my hair?
They're like, cause it's unkept. This is my natural hair pattern, right,

(15:25):
like it grows how it grows. And trust me, I
washed my hair to have these have the curls that
I'm having.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
I put product in my hair. It's clean. But that
was not acceptable for them.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
That was something that they were like, no, your hair
is unkept, because they didn't, you know, understand us. But
like just to put a ball on it, man, Like
I really do hope that, you know. I feel bad
for like a lot of black men, black boys in
the classroom man, because I feel like people don't when
we say were getting picked on.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
I feel like a lot of people don't believe it.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Like they're like, oh, maybe the actor, like even even
John you almost say like like nah, I forget that
like you're a child, Like these are children. He's on
a nose like they're gonna They're not perfect people. But
I do think that there's a certain ore that black
men have keeachers can't deal with when it's kind of
out of wax. They're like, oh, we got to put

(16:13):
like if you say something, we got to off this
right now, or if you're getting too much attention in
the class like oh, he's taking over the classroom, and
it's like, no, I'm just being myself and that scares them.
So I feel bad because I think there's a lot
of similar stories with black boys going to do.

Speaker 6 (16:29):
Nah, it's a matter of control, is what it is. Fellas.
It's you know, it's not a misunderstanding at all. It's
a matter of control. And and that's their way of
still trying to have control over situations and to bring
it back just a little bit to our sports theme,
you know, that's where a lot of this conversation was

(16:49):
coming from. Was, Okay, you have this this young black
male who's confident in his abilities, felt like he should
be in a certain position or status as it relates
to the to the pro league, which we all know.
And I think you know, all of us have had
conversations before about the pros are the pros, and usually
the elite of everything that came before the pros is

(17:11):
who's in the pros. So even though we might call
somebody a scrub in the pros, I guarantee you that
scrub was one of the elite. Sure, you know, play
in college or something. You see what I'm saying. So,
but it's all in this perspective. The conversation about the
owners saying and should Dure specifically his arrogance and him

(17:31):
saying where he was going to play, didn't want to
play his dad's influence on what that sounded like as well.
You know, again the owners, you're not gonna see many
of us in that position, so they like, well, we
gotta you know, we still own this thing. I don't
like how he's presenting himself. Now. Once they get in
the league and become who they become, you know, ain't

(17:53):
much they can do at that point. But at the
point of you trying to come in the other aspect,
I think that them was that schaudure he didn't need
to be in the league for their money. Yes, correct,
you see what I'm saying. He didn't need anything from
them except the opportunity to play right, and that got them,

(18:15):
you know, that gets them off. Aedge like, wait a minute,
you're supposed to come humble to me. I'm about to
give you some millions up in here. And he already
had millions. I mean, he's already got millions of things.

Speaker 7 (18:28):
It's a fascinating point because I do think the quiet
part about all of this, the elephant in the corner is,
I have been known to say, is the way in
which class plays out right. And I think the conversation
that we're having, like, you know, our young men are

(18:48):
you know, middle.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Class, upper middle class. You know, kids grew up.

Speaker 7 (18:52):
That way, right, And but I think I can't help
but think about Lebron James in the in the context
of this conversation, there's a whole there's a whole industry
of hate around Lebron James that is that is really
about him being arrogant and cocky. I mean, you can

(19:14):
critique his basketball and all of the ability and whether
he's a winner, he's the goat and all this stuff,
but this young man has been called the King since
he was like twelve or thirteen years old, grew up
in a single parent household but never got in any trouble.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
But there's this whole.

Speaker 7 (19:34):
Narrative about him that, you know, a person not as
strong of character and will would have really wilted under
the pressure of And so while you know he deserves
some critique, the flopping and the whining, yeah sure, but
what he's been able to accomplish.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
These two people come to your job every day and
start critiquing you.

Speaker 6 (19:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
It's less about his ability.

Speaker 7 (20:02):
The critique of him is more about the arrogance and
the nerve and just that to have the strength of
character to withstand all of that. I think it's something
that should be studied.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
And the shadear thing is so crazy because black nepotism
is probably like the most frown upon thing on both sides.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
I think from the inside.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
I think black quote because it's something that makes people very,
very uncomfortable, and I think Shade is ignoral of that
because if you compare Shader Sanders to Archie Manning, who
is the quarterback at the University of Texas now, he
is the son of arch Manning, his uncles. If you

(20:47):
all do not cannot already the last name or Eli
and Payton.

Speaker 5 (20:53):
When you compare now, now I can see where y'all
are definitely coming from, because he's gonna mess around and
go first to second Okay, first a second around and
now now that's what's because right now I feel like
you can't compare it because there is nothing to compare
it to get.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
But when it is, when that when that baby comes,
when he comes and he ain't really did nothing yet
and he go ended up going first and second round. Now,
now we haven't he the third generation?

Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (21:18):
He the third generation.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
So here's the thing that's so crazy about that, and
why I brought it up is because not even just
on the draft positioning, because one Archie Manning has not
completed a full season as a Texas started. He's already
if you go right now a project the top three pick.
Another thing about that's so crazy could just be me
and how I view things, But I feel like people

(21:46):
assume that Shadur Shanders is this rich boy, but I
don't get those same thoughts about Archie Manning when his
uncle's own Omaha Productions. They've been in the NFL forever,
Peyton and Eli on every commercial I don't. I don't
hear people say that he's a rich boy. There seems
much richer than when that ain't the case.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
And then the other thing that.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
I want to go out is that they.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
So listen.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
I will say that it's part of it. Prime is
a very flashy guy. But to that same point, Archie
Manning's family is seen as a bonus. It's okay, every
time I totle this from Eli and Peyton, he's getting
he's a he grew up in football.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
This is this is something like he knows football.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
But for Shadur and Dion, who is one of the
greatest football players we've ever seen, I think people forget
about forget all the bravado. He's one of the greatest
players ever. He has a gold Jack athlete, I would
say athletes. They don't they don't use it as a
benefit for him. They don't bring up the fact that
he's been getting All Pro Hall of Fame cornerback he was,

(22:57):
but they bring it up Archie.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
So it's like it's it's a weird.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
I definitely agree. The double standard is is real. It's thick,
it's it's right there in our faces.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
But but I'm wondering from from Jonathan and Miles. A
couple of things I would like for you guys to
kind of touch on, and that, you know, how do
you guys feel about being allowed the freedom to express yourselves?
I was, you know, I was in the gym the
other day, I'm working out and then this this young
brother walks by and he's got his hair is I
don't even know what you call it or how you

(23:31):
describe it. It's like, you know, like if Grig's hair
was on steroids right now, you know, just win in
every direction did that kind of thing, and you know,
the stuff that you young cats get to do. And
I was just saying to him, I was like, man
if I was, I was like, man if I was,
if I if I still had hair, I would do
something like that. You know, because when we were coming up,
you know, we I don't think we felt, you know,

(23:54):
the high top fade was really you know, one of
our ways to express ourselves. You know, we weren't that
level of you know, especially if you were trying to
go to college or you wanted to get a job.
There was more of this pressure to conform and look
more like what society thought was acceptable. But I see
young brothers now doing all kinds of stuff that I'm like, Man,

(24:14):
I wish I would have if I still had hair,
I would do something like that, But you know, I'm
fifty something years old now, it's not the same. What
do you guys, how how do you guys feel about
how you know you're being labeled?

Speaker 4 (24:27):
How does it feel?

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Do you feel like society still wants to hold you
back like that? Do you guys feel like you have
more freedom to do and be yourself whoever that is.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
I mean, I'm gonna say this, I feel like it
goes both ways. For like society in a sense, does
they do like our style?

Speaker 4 (24:45):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (24:46):
They want us to be us, you know what I mean,
they want us they trudgt me, they want us to
be the flashiest thing, because we are the chance setters,
you know what I mean. Black men, black young black men,
even black women, they're the chance setters for a lot
of these kids, these teenagers nowadays. But at the end
of the day, just at the same time, the white
people hate it though, or I wouldn't even say the
white so just like the other even a lot of

(25:07):
races hate it though.

Speaker 4 (25:08):
Like I feel like.

Speaker 5 (25:09):
It's more so, I don't know if it's an insecurity thing,
like they don't they don't feel like they have that
same swagger, they had that same effect on the masses
that that maybe like you'll see with hip hop, you
know what I mean nowadays, like it's hip hop is touching.
It's touching all over, you know what I mean. Like
you see a sexy red and stuff like that. She
was with Donald Trump had her you know what I

(25:30):
meant at one of his rallies, you know what I mean.
It's just it's just hip hop is just so it's
so transcendent. It's like I feel like people just just
hate on it, you know what I mean, for whatever
reason or just the black culture is just so it's
just so cool. It's a vibe, it's something, it's something,
it's something natural, you know what I mean. It was
never we didn't have to take it. We didn't we
didn't have to still lands, you know what I mean.

(25:51):
They brought us over here and we still were able
to find a culture, you know what I mean, be ourselves,
you know what I mean, and establish ourselves as one.
So it's just I just so like people are just
just hate on blacks, you know what I mean, or
just just have some type of indiando with blacks for
whatever reason, and it's just like like I've never you
know what I mean, I didn't grow up with that hate,

(26:12):
but for some reason, whatever reason, people just grow up
just feeling like they can't do what we can do.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
There's certain aspects, yeah, I mean, and I definitely you know,
I think that the individual is highly highly pushed nowadays.
I think the the idea is to be an individual
now and be your own person and have that confidence
for your own thing. I think that I do think
it's a lot in black Man, but I honestly just

(26:38):
think that's a societal thing now.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
With my generation in general, I think we.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Don't really have too many We're very arrogant generation, which
is which is hasards negatives, right, But I think what
the positives is that we feel as though that, you know,
we know what's best for our lives. And I think
that goes into the way that we decide to present ourselves.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Right, So, like I think that we don't.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Really care what anybody has to say about what kind
of hair we have, or like I think the rise
in tattoos and like you know, the like formal places
is ride like no one like I'm gonna tat up
my whole body if you want to, Like you, people
don't really care about that. I'm gonna wear what I
want to wear. I'm gonna do my hair how I
want to do my hair. And I think it's because,
like you know, we feel as though like it's our

(27:23):
lives to decide on, right, Like I don't think going
back to like you know, the conversation that you had earlier,
do we have a conversation of do we have to
be two times better or ten times better than white folks?
We didn't have those conversations. The conversations, like we said,
were about the individual. How can I be my best
version of myself? And that allows yourself to organically find

(27:44):
yourself and not be like, Okay, what what are they
doing over there that is accessible? Let me do that too,
you know, anything like what do I like to do?
I like my hair like this, I like to wear this,
you know, I like to do all these different things.
So it's like you we organically find these things. And
the Internet, I think too.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Has been a rise in it.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
Like as much as I say you want to get
individual the Internet shows that there's a lot of people
out there just like you, right, So, like I think
when you do think, and you might not see people
in your community doing them as well, you have a
community online that makes you feel like you're not like
doing something that's completely wicked, and everyone doesing you, right,
So I think that level of community that get online

(28:24):
allows them to be themselves in person as well, which
is has as positives and as negative.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
But I think that gives people the courage to kind of.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
Be wacky because however, you have your hair, you can
go on Google and find somebody that probably hasn't.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
So I think benefits well as.

Speaker 6 (28:41):
Rick is trying to become Cornell West out there. I
think that you brought up some great points. You know,
Cornell got that hair going on and that intellect to
back them up type deal. So I think that's that's
how Rick would be looking if I'm seeing him with
all that hair about. But I want to say that

(29:04):
you guys have touching up some great things. And there's
so many layers to what's about what this conversation is
leading into, and it's about, you know, how is the
black mail perceived? And I agree with you both when
you said how social media, the Internet and all of
that has become an influence on what that looks like. Now,

(29:27):
I'm concerned that as politics is becoming more and more
involved in our life, now, how is that going to
look going forward? You see what I mean? I think
we were able to get to a point where you're right, Miles,
you know, the tattoos, the hair whatever. We're like, hey,

(29:49):
we know that there's more to a person than how
they present themselves on the outside. So we're willing to
go ahead and look at that and bring that into
our companies and organzations. But now we have this wave
getting ready to come through here. That's that's kind of
not quite looking at that as much, you know, And
how is that going to affect our youth as they're

(30:11):
trying to still find out who they are individual wise
as well? So, you know, to be a confident black male,
you've got to be able to navigate. You've got to
be able to understand the environment that you're in. It
doesn't mean that you can't be who you are, but

(30:32):
you have to also see what's going on around you,
or else you're going to get lost into who you
are and miss out on what's happening as things are
growing ahead of you as well. You know, we're also
in an age where entrepreneurship is so wide now, you know,
not everybody has to join a company to be successful.

(30:55):
You know, they're doing their own thing, they're their own boss,
they're their own this, which is great, but again, just
how is that going to look, you know, ten years
from now. And that's just given the nature of the
society that we're starting to see as well. So just
just bringing up some highlights as.

Speaker 5 (31:16):
Relating even in a sense, like you guys said, growing up,
it sounds like you guys were saying like you weren't.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
Able to guess express yourself. Is that what you're kind
of saying we were.

Speaker 6 (31:27):
I mean that's where you know, the start of hip hop,
the you know, house music for us in Chicago type
deal rap at the time kind of kind of evolved
from our generation. So we kind of, I would say,
started to have that influence. But we also had the
idea that we couldn't just show up at the job

(31:49):
any kind of way, so to speak, without some potential
repercussions coming from that. And that's where I would that
would be my view on that now Rick and Greg
got might have a different outlook on that, but yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Would say I would say each generation is a little
more free. I would say that we had more We
have more freedoms than our parents did. It did, and
you guys definitely have more freedoms in terms of the
ability to express ourselves, to be that individual, to let
the world see who we are more. So I think

(32:24):
each generation it gets a little better. And in that respect,
I think I think a large part of that to
Miles's point earlier about the internet, uh, the pervasiveness of
social media and the internet forces it right. It's because
of the fact that everybody gets to see what everybody
else is doing in all corners of the world. It
also makes it a little harder for people to lie

(32:46):
as much about certain things, though they're trying really hard
despite all of that. So I'd say, you know, you guys,
there's more freedom to express oneselves. But it's definitely I
think getting better over time, just because I get to
see how you all are living, and to me, you know,
I see the way you live and it gives me
hope that things are improving. And then to hear you

(33:09):
all today gives me a lot more hope because of
the difference in perspective, because you guys are looking at
the world differently than we do, and you know, those
different experiences, so as jacked up as the world looks
on the surface, you know, hearing you can't speak today
just makes me feel you know, for one, I feel

(33:30):
I'm really proud of my brothers, John and Greg because
you know, we haven't had a conversation in a while
speaking to John and Miles, and the last conversations we
had were not nearly as deep as this, And so
you know, I'm very proud of my brothers because I
feel like they've done a great job with YouTube and
helping YouTube become the men that you are. You know,

(33:53):
So just very very proud to be a part of that.
So now I'm gonna you know, as we go ahead, huh.

Speaker 7 (34:00):
I could add really, you know, I can speak for
me and can't overstate the importance of Miles's mom and
influencing him to be who he is today. And I
am grateful for the role that she had and like
we would just be amazed, like this kid, where did

(34:22):
he come up with this stuff at? And it's just
the influence of soap of like a bunch of people, right,
and us exposing him to things and us being open
to things. And so I guess the last thing I'll
say on kind of this part is, you know, there
is absolutely progress and seeing them being able to be

(34:43):
confident and express themselves, the world is also shaping around
them too, And I think that you know, whenever there's progress,
there's always a bit of a backlash, and I think
part of part of what we're experiencing now is a
bit of that backlash. That's what the Shador Sanders part,
like all of that is about, like a backlash to progress.

(35:05):
But you know, progress is here and it's happening, and
you can hate on it or like it or not.
It's just the reality. And I think, you know, our
these young men represent the essence of what progress means.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
And I echo that to Greg.

Speaker 6 (35:20):
I mean, just to acknowledge their moms and this, Yeah,
they are huge influences on these on these young men
as well, and helped us to probably be more open
to some of the things that they did. Just just
to be real with y'all, you know, I mean, we
may see you guys as young us, but I think

(35:42):
moms is what helped to help us understand that No,
you you and that's you know, that's where we have
to just continue to understand that and so proud of
you both, you know, and things as well. You guys
are just so amazing, and you know, it makes us
so proud of all the accomplic pushments that you both
are doing on your own, and I just want to

(36:05):
acknowledge that as well. I think one of the questions
we had before wrapping that up was, though, you're our
younger generation, but what are some thoughts that you might have,
you know, quickly for some of the folks that might be,
you know, younger than you, so ten years, let's say,
younger than you, guys, what would be some advice or
some knowledge that you might want to want to give them.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
So that's what like sixteen seventeen year olds something like that. Yeah,
today's seventeen year olds, what would you tell them?

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Oh, this is a tough.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Question, specifically about navigating race, opportunity and keeping your sanity through.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
All of that.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Ooh so in terms of keeping your sanity, it's the
most cliche thing ever, but be yourself.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
I know that's very cliche.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
And then everybody tells you to it, but literally be yourself, Like,
don't you don't feel the need to code switch, don't
feel the need to think about other people's ideas of
who you are and what you what you think they
think you should be. Be yourself, Be unapologetically yourself. Because
as I've gotten older and I've started to navigate spaces

(37:16):
with most cultural people starting to have quote unquote you know,
big boy jobs or you know, talking to people that
you know are not like me and different from me,
the more the most. The best I've ever felt is
when I'm myself and they love you like whoever you are,
whatever the best qualities of you are. I'm telling you
that they will be they will love that like right

(37:39):
Like most times where people have kind of wanted to
be around me or I've advanced in my life and
my life so far, is when I've just been myself,
easy going, laid back, and I think that's important. Where
you ask about keeping your sanity, that's how you keep
your saying it. You go crazy when you try and
put on different masks every single day, you lose track
of them. That's how you kind of turn crazy, right

(38:00):
You kind of like.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Who am I today? Who am I tomorrow? Who am
I in March? You know?

Speaker 3 (38:04):
So if you're yourself every single day, you can kind
of it takes a couple of exterior factors away to
kind of just focusing on your own things. So yeah,
be yourself man, and people love it. I'm telling you,
people love unapologizic black man. It might make him uncomfortable,
it might make them feel some kind of way, but
you'll be you and they'll come to enjoy it.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
And I would have I'm gonna piggyback off to be
yourself for sure. Then I would also like to say,
if I'm giving advice to seventeen year old a sixteen
year old, I would say, man, just do things with intent,
you know what I mean, And also do stuff like
out of the kindness of your heart, you know what
I mean. Don't just do stuff just because it's the
next man doing it, you know what I mean, or
just because it's cool to do do it because you

(38:46):
actually really want to do it. Because your future self
will thank you for it, you know what I mean,
Especially when you put all that time in and work
in on something that you really want to do, you
know what I mean. It's just I just feel like
you got to do stuff with intention in life now
and all that. You know what I mean, in all aspects,
you got to do everything with intention and make sure
you got a plan because with the plan you can

(39:06):
you can go far. That's that's all I can say.
With the plan, you can definitely go far. So that's
all I would say is just do stuff with intention
and do do with the kindness of your heart. Do
stuff with the kindness kind of your heart for sure.

Speaker 7 (39:18):
Well with that, you all, I've learned a lot. This
was This was a great conversation. I think we should
try to do this again, at least once, maybe more.
It just feels like I've I've learned a lot just
listening to you all and again, you know, the pride
that I have and hearing you all and your ability

(39:40):
to express yourselves truly remarkable. And I guess I come
away with this saying, they're really even in a moment
in time in our country and world where there seems
to be so much crisis, there has been progress, right,
Like I leave this conversation realizing that things are getting better.

(40:01):
You know, challenges remain, but we've made progress from the
days of thirty forty fifty sixty years ago, and you know,
we have to grab onto that progress and continue to
move the ball forward. And then I guess the last
thing I'll say is just you know, that self awareness
part is something that I am like floored by, and

(40:24):
you know, because I think to say, like move with
intention in your twenties is like wow, that one way
I was thinking, I'm just moving right to win, like
I had a concept of myself. But that intentionality is
not something that I had very much and certainly not
in my twenties. And so continue to embrace that and

(40:46):
really understand the importance of community and resilience. And you know,
there's a lot of people that are proud of y'all
and love you very much, so totally agree.

Speaker 6 (40:59):
You guys were amazing to our listening audience. Hopefully you
have just had some uplift through the conversation today and
and just hearing from our young men. They are our future.
These are the future leaders and movers and shakers that
are gonna do some things in this world. And as
Greg said at Rich as well, you know, we are

(41:22):
just so proud of you. We love you. You continue to
amaze us, which is outstanding and always know that no
matter what, you always have us there. So you may
you may grow, you may climb, you may have us
there to help you along the way, you may fall,

(41:42):
and even then you're gonna still have us there to
help catch you. So we're not going to do it
for you. I think you two know that, but we're
there and we're there to make sure that you guys
make it all right. So this is just a great time.
This is raw and refined from from a more seasoned generation,

(42:05):
and it's in a generation that that's on the on
the come up type deal as well. So again we
want to thank you, appreciate you, and and Rick anything else.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Thanks everybody for listening, and I will see you again
real soon.

Speaker 7 (42:18):
Take care of everybody, peace, peace, Appreciate you.